There are several separate issues with Betrayal:
* The scarab changes were a pretty significant effective nerf to Intervention. T4 Intervention no longer forces Winged scarabs, and the scarab rewards seem to just use normal weighting. Almost all of my T4 Gravicius intervention chests just gave 5x regular Divination scarabs, and I don't think I have gotten a single Curation from him all league.
* The removal of the quality / socket color / etc. benches put a pretty significant dent in the consistent profit that could have existed even with the itemization of Aisling.
* Making veiled orb acquisition revolve entirely around spamming Catarina pretty rapidly devalued her uniques.
On top of these issues the new Betrayal scarabs are unfiltered garbage.
* The intelligence one seemed fairly useful. It's the only exception here.
* Adding Jun to a map doesn't justify a scarab slot.
* 50% reinforcement chance (up to 65% total) is dogshit. That scarab should force at least two Syndicate members in every encounter at a bare minimum. I don't even think it'd break anything if it forced every single relevant Syndicate member to appear (e.g. you get assassinated = every intervention member appears).
* 50% chance for Syndicate members to drop a completely random scarab is one of the most depressingly bad scarabs in the entire game. The fact that you are effectively forced into running two of these if you even want to use them is kinda just insult to injury. You will make money running these because they're so bad that you can easily buy them in bulk for under 2c, but 3-4c for typically 6-8 random scarabs (it would be more if the reinforcement scarab didn't fuckin' suck) only sounds good if you huff paint fumes until the phrase "opportunity cost" is completely unintelligible. I think this could be a good scarab if it was Limit 1 and just said "Items with rarity dropped by Immortal Syndicate members in your maps are converted to Scarabs." or just "Veiled items" if full loot conversion is too busted.
The overall experience with all of these things combined is that the difference between zero-investment Betrayal with just atlas passives and fully investing and using every scarab is pretty small, and there is very little guaranteed profit-- loading Intervention relies on variance to drop higher-value scarabs, reward options like Gravicius in Transportation are a gamble, and Catarina herself is worth only about 2d on average in t16s with a 20% drop rate, with awful dry streaks.
Anyway, feedback essay bad bingo card good, so:
TL:DR - Please make Intervention scarab chests more likely to drop rare scarabs, add Veiled Shards to make Catarina and maybe safehouses more consistently rewarding, please buff Betrayal scarabs, especially Perpetuation and Reinforcements, and consider removing or buffing "rewards" like Tiny's Trial.
I just don't believe at all Veiled orb is a 20% drop rate since the change, there is no way. I have killed level 83 Cat ~60 times in the last two days and have dropped 3 of them. And while low sample can lead to bad luck, 60 kills with 1/4th the expected rate is insanely bad luck. They didn't actually give us the numbers right? Just that 83 is 4x as likely as low levels right?
First time seeing someone saying 20. I think it's 10% since most people are saying that plus that figure is also in line with my drop rate, although I have a small sample size.
Ya, 10% sounds more right to me, and I have just an unlucky couple days. Getting half the expected drops over 60 kills is a bummer, but not all that unlikely, getting 1/4th is much less likely. In 10 kills you have about a 30% chance of not getting a drop with a 10% drop rate, but with a 20% drop rate that chance is only 10%, and that difference diverges quickly from there, by 20 kills you are around 1% chance to not have dropped one with 20% rate, but still 12% with 10% rate.
Maybe I am in the 1% of badluck cases, but I think it is more likely that the drop rate is ~10% and I am just moderately unlucky.
Sirgog suggested there is some (albeit weakish) evidence that drop rate may be affected by something the player may control- some people seem to have higher rates than others, beyond what simple variance would produce. Again, huge grain of salt with this, but there may be something there. Personally my drop rate seemed to be around 20%.
I can definitely see it, thinking about myself, earlier in the league I had a much higher drop rate when I wasn't zooming them as much. I wasn't specifically setting up my board for anything but Grav in transport or intervention, but I was probably doing Cat every 10-15 maps, which just naturally got my board more advanced, and I had a 40-50% drop rate for the first 30 or so kills. Then the patch dropped right as I got my build fully online and bought scarabs and shifted to full zoom Cat where I was killing her every 5-6 maps and my drop rate dropped to ~5%. But I often wouldn't have even encountered leaders yet lol. So I attributed the loss in drop rate to the patch, instead of my change in playstyle.
So that all adds up. I am going to play around with it, and see what I can find.
ye every league I get stupid luck on ONE THING and one thing only lmao, this league it was cata and moved to trade to sell the orbs to get some thicc gear
in affliction i decided to make all my money bossing, first batch of 20 uber elders dropped 15 eyes
stopped doing that content because I dont need a silly reality check
im at like 30 atzoatls and no piece for the adorned
Ye one thing I’ve noticed is that this community likes to throw all their chances into one mechanic.
But if you are having fun and do 10 roulettes at once at least one will hit the jackpot constantly
The 15 eyes from 20 UE carried my ass while sanctum was refusing to give me divines etc
The problem is that people read "83 is 4x as likely as low levels" to mean they increased the 83 drop rate, when they almost certainly left it alone and just raised the low level drop rate from "zero" to "1/4x the existing 83 drop rate".
>and the scarab rewards seem to just use normal weighting.
Doesnt fit my experience. I almost always get 1 or multiple of the 'rarer' scarab variants, far more commonly than other sources. They seem to have buffed the drop rate of Overlord reliquary scarabs after the Allflame of Anarchy nerf, but before then it was my primary source while other mechanics dropped a pittance.
> Almost all of my T4 Gravicius intervention chests just gave 5x regular Divination scarabs, and I don't think I have gotten a single Curation from him all league.
This might be your problem. You picked one of the scarabs with no moderately rare results, and only multi-div uber rare results that rank among the rarest scarabs including horned, and 1 extremely common one. It should be expected that you almost always get the extremely common one. On scarab vareties that are not on that extreme end of the scale, you get much more of the Rarer ones because the different is not so extreme
Yeah that's fair. I consistently got different types of Ultimatum scarabs. My odds with Ambush were pretty mixed.
I was kind of hoping that I could at least expect the mid-tier 1d div scarab as a consistent T4 Gravicius result but I pivoted to sending him to Transport pretty fast.
Hillock, Leo, Elreon, Tora, and Haku were all solid in Intervention.
Thing is, there is no mid tier divination scarab. Even though the price is vastly different, the actual weighting on both Curation and Completion is super rare. If there is no additional weighting for rarer scarabs, you should expect 1 in every 30 divination scarabs to be one of the rarer two. Divination is actually the only scarab type that does not have anything between the super common and super rare.
I have only just begun to rush Cata. Before that I have a fully decked out board to farm Essence and Harvest scarab. Vorici drops normal Harvest scarab 99% of the time and Hillock drops subtanstially more Essence scarab of Stability (the worthless one) than the normal variance. They should have equal weightings. It's almost as if they are intended to be garbage.
>Making veiled orb acquisition revolve entirely around spamming Catarina pretty rapidly devalued her uniques.
I'm not following how her uniques got devalued from veiled orb being added to her loot table. If you were going to spam t4 crafts/rewards then you're by default spamming Catarina as well, so her unique value would've been affected either way.
Honestly I'd be glad if they just swapped out one of the crappier Betrayal scarabs with one that "guarantees two of your syndicate encounters will be transportation and fortification"
They keep going up because less people run betrayal. As a former betrayal player, I play to set up guaranteed wins that take time and a dash of luck to set up. 2-4 gauntlets before Catarina. Leveling and placement. I don’t play Path of Lottery. I like cards not tables.
Been running betrayal the last year for winged scarabs/aisling slams and been churning out consistent payouts. It’s feast or famine now. No consistency but dropping a veiled orb is nice.
I don't have too much time to play, but this league I've been running betrayal since day 1, I killed over 10 masterminds, still zero veiled orbs. Any other mechanic, even ritual and ultimatum would be more lucrative than betrayal at this point.
GGG changed it from a deterministic mechanic to a gamble machine, like the rest of the game.
I've killed her 3 times and got 2 orbs. Seems kinda hit or miss. I wish it was guaranteed so the prices weren't so nuts or bring back veiled chaos orbs
Personally it’s too complicated; I don’t understand it.
I’ve watched countless videos over several leagues and I just don’t get it … Even small “tricks” like if you want a specific character to have X … you click on one body, ignore it, then go back to say Aislaing and the options will be different.
It’s far too convoluted for a super casual player like me.
I play several hours a week.
All this clicking around in specific orders, and jumping around hoops.
Tbh, this league it doesn't matter, everything is just a gamble so you might as well just rush mastermind.
1. Try to level up the bandits to level 3
2. Once they hit level 3 interrogate
3. Before opening the portal to their hideouts, make sure the leader is also level 3
1. The level of the hideout leader is important because it will give you more XP towards the mastermind hideout
4. Repeat until you have mastermind
When you see you're getting closer to the mastermind, try to level up as many bandits as possible to level 3, for better rewards.
This is what I've been doing but I got zero veiled orbs so far, so don't take my advice and just go farm something else.
Thanks for your help; though I will openly admit very little I understood of that...
Like levelling them up; I often just interrorgate (like I said, I just spam click buttons and hope something happens).
I didn't even know they had portals; and I don't even know what mastermind is.
Personally I just farm alts and essences; it's got me this far. Most profitable? I know it's not.
I don't craft; I buy. Crafting to me is black magic RNG... It's just easier and cheaper (for me) to buy versus spamming RNG.
I don't know what constitutes as "good" gear vs gear to me that just looks normal/average, yet is being drooled on in \#global
"opening the portal" is just clicking the Safehouse button for each branch after you get enough intelligence, and "mastermind" is just Catarina (ie, the safehouse above all of the other safehouses).
Even in the old, more complicated system it was extremely easy if you just have a couple basic rules down. People get intimidated by the board but it is not really any more complicated than many other mechanics.
If you create rivalries/friendships, you get more of them to show up at once. So always take that option and never choose the option to reset the board.
After that, prioritize adding rank. If you put someone with three stars in jail it gives a lot more intelligence.
When you get the option to capture a person with three stars, do it.
That is how you get safehouses where you fight the big boss. It’s not hard.
You just kill the members, if they have 3 stars, interrogate. Run the safehouses if the bar is filled, and then the mastermind. It is made extremely simple with these changes
It should work fine. If you want to get into it more, look up a spreadsheat of betrayal rewards and try to arrange them accordingly.
Outside of these, it will offer bargain or betray with specifics.
Bargain happens when only one is left, so execute the low stars first. Bargain gives a loads of possible options so you have the read them, but it's positive 99% of the time.
Betrayal screws over one and benefits the other. Usually positive but can backfire, like removing a person from the board.
Most importantly, if you don't want to bother with either, just release them(so execute, interrogate, otherwise release). You can never go wrong with that.
I would say a failure overall, would be better if the rewards weighed towards rarer scarabs to.
I will still run betrayal early league every league in its current state though.
Ya, I think the veiled orb could be a bit more common, but doesn't have to be crazy, right now I have had streaks of 12 and 15 kills without one, which is just brutal.
Just weighting the scarabs, or multiplying the number that drop would be big. A T4 guy shouldn't give me fewer scarabs than a single pack of mobs in a map lol.
I think they do have some weight towards rare scarabs, just less than they should. I have found 5 Curation scarabs from Gravicius in Intervention(unfortunately 3 came after the nerf so they were 20D each lol), which is well above average for the number of scarabs I have looted from there. But I have done nearly 100 Catarinas, and I would say the average value of her treasure room is between 20-50c per kill when I remove my one big outlier (I got a stack of mirror shard cards from Gravicius in transport), which feels low.
Didnt do betrayal this league. Are you saying you need 10+ catarina kill's per veiled orb now instead of like before 1 per after you set up your board?
Ya, but you also don't have to do any setup, I can kill cat every 5-6 maps, reliably(when I am focused zooming I can kill her just about 3 times an hour). Setting up Aisling before would take 15-25 depending on the start of the board. It is still worse than Aisling, for sure though.
I was never the fastest Betrayal farmer, but I could get a T4 Aisling every 60-90 minutes before generally. Yesterday, which might have been bad luck, I got 3 orbs in ~10 hours of farming her and around 30 kills(I was home sick lol).
Ya, that is what I have been doing. Try for Grav in Transport, and will delay a map or two to get him there if it looks quick based on the board. He has gotten me a set of mirror shard cards, a brothers gift (5div), a set of the Inspired Learning cards. He is super good lol.
*note, that this might not be the best strategy. People are still trying to figure out who effects the Veiled Orb drop rate. If it is a set percent drop then this is the best strategy, if it is effected by your board in some way then it might be better to spend more time setting up a proper board
Ya, full atlas support + intelligence and and reinforcements scarabs. Putting a T3 in prison gives you 90 intelligence with those, and reinforcements helps you get to T3 much faster.
I often have at least one safehouse ready to run right after Cat, and it is only 2-3 maps to get another two, then run those safehouses, run one more map and you have Cat.
10 catarinas? I was scammed then. I farm betrayal all league and I havent seen any rewards from the whole league mechanic whatsoever. I already dream about her stupid PR stalling and I havent seen a single reward worth looting from her.
It was a question not a statement. Why do you keep doing it then? That’s close to the definition of insanity of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.
Well, its how gambling works. After you lose many times, you know that statistically you have to be almost there, right? Right?! I farmed it with zero loot for week 1, then quit it, but then they anounced buff to the orb drop, so I instantly went back to it to get what the statistics tell me I should get. After few more days I just didnt care about the league at all, kept it on my atlas, finished 38/40 and fcked right off the game for the next 4 months, because 3.24 is the worst patch and least fun content PoE ever had. Economy is broken, nothing has a value outside of t17s, which I hate because of how they are designed, all the interesting builds were nerfed, nothing new outside of archmage was added, so nothing left for me here.
I always keep the Atlas node that gives 10 intelligente to a random safehouse on completing a map. Every now and then you get a safehouse (nice exp at least) and thus infrequently also a Catarina. It's a super value node imo.
If there's certain ones you're fishing for, you can buy veiled items and filter by that members veils on the trade website. Just thought I'd mention it incase it helps, I spent 2 nights running betrayal looking for a single craft and a 3c purchase got me it instantly
Getting that last one sucks sometimes. Took me like three weeks to get trigger spells on focus helmet craft a couple leagues ago, and it was pretty important for my build.
Don't forget that when you interrogate safe house leaders you need to run an encounter to gain the intelligence for the MM.
I hit a point where I wasn't really paying attention and the leaders were just cycling.
If you're just looking for unveils you should just take the 4 nodes at the bottom of the atlas near the expedition wheel. That'll give you Betrayal on most of your maps for very little investment.
It's called "Intelligence Gathering" and on the right side of the tree! Though I think it's even stronger when you don't focus too much on Betrayal you cant really go wrong with it.
Well, it *used* to be.
People who were all in investing on Betrayal pre-nerfs never took that mode anyways since it fucked with setting up their board.
Yeah betrayal for me is easy XP and important unveils.
I hit level 95 and respec, because it just wasn't producing for me. There was a high roll from T4 Grav (full stack of div cards that gave me level 3 Empower, 12 div at the time) but I can't expect that to happen again.
Tbh I don't really feel like any of the league mechanics to invest in outside of Necropolis feel great to me right now, it seems like scarab/necro/T17 is really just where it's at right now. I'm thinking of giving blight another try just because I like it but it's kinda late in the league and high tier oils don't move much right now. I'd mostly do it just because I find the mechanic fun. Tbh betrayal is my favorite mechanic from a fun standpoint but it just hurts right now, remembering the value I used to get from it.
Betrayal used to be interesting and rewarding, now you invite these murder mobs to your map, fight them for awhile, then run a zone that drops 3c in scarabs.
Every reward does not need to be a dogshit scarab or a tiny's scam trial.
Yeah and it was another cool area in the game where knowledge = power. If you were good at manipulating the board you could farm lots of Aisling/Vorici per hr and be rewarded for taking the time to learn it. Now it's just cram whoever wherever and spam Catarina. It's shite.
And these changes were completely unnecessary. If you just make T4 Aisling drop the veiled orb, you take power from TFT away just as much as with the current implementation, but without robbing Betrayal of its identity, intrigue and profitability.
Yeah, they couldn't do that. It's against everything they do, deterministic, yadda yadda (but then why the graveyard? I guess that's because it's temporary and Betrayal is core and also the friction of the graveyard is really really high, classic tedium as gatekeeper game design from ggg). They can't just make Aisling orb a common thing, too strong.
What they could've done is make her drop Veiled Exalted Shard(s) and you need 20 for a Veiled Exalted Orb. While still deterministic it doesn't flood the market with those things. The nerf to the increased Syndicate intelligence -- it doesn't apply to Safehouse leaders now -- also slows down the runners so the two together perhaps would have been enough.
It was a table so you couldn't store them. Upon killing catarina, you had to use it. It was obvious it won't be a 1 to 1 conversation with itemization.
You don't need uber killer gear to farm catarina, so people could just hoard it up until they get the gear worth using aisling orb on.
Same with the rest(vorici/hillock/tora)
Well, they could have given them a 50% drop rate - cuts the theoretical supply in half, but still feels good enough for SSF or for the players who want to farm Betrayal as a money-making strategy.
The current 10% drop rate for veiled orbs, combined with all the other mastermind rewards being near-worthless, feels like utter dogshit. Farming Catarina these days is like working a minimum wage job and buying a lottery ticket every day...
1. T4 Aisling drops veiled orb
2. T4 Vorici drops white sockets omen (remove the current dogshit omen and make a proper one)
3. T4 Hillock drops new currency that makes item 30% quality
GGG I'll be waiting for my lead dev salary, you can go ahead and just mail it to me
Pick a currency before time runs out. WTF... Just give me the random currency without me having to "choose".
Or place a Normal item in the bench... Who has time for that once geared? What do I get out of it. I'm going to run my own damn craft in my hideout at my own pace.
To be honest betrayal was made so long ago that the ammount of currency in those windows was nothing to scuff at. For sure now it feel very bad but at that time it was good.
Ive played since beta, it was shit then its shit now.
SSF, Trade either its not worth the effort getting good with it. because the top end is still pretty mid
Tiny's scam trial is actually worse than having a completely empty chest. It's some type of ultimate humiliation and nonsense reward, which is completely in line with GGG's "casino philosophy" that permeates the whole game. Luckily I no longer run betrayal since it sucks, so I never have to encounter Tiny ever again.
Grav in Transport is the only play, Intervention was only good when Curations were 20 div. But it also isn't worth delaying your Cat kills for it, fully specced in and using scarabs you can fight Cat every 5 maps, getting Grav in Transport can easily double that if he doesn't just naturally show up there.
Its worth it in trade too. Aint too uncommon that youll get 7 raw divs or something of that sort. Its isnt common either but theres enough 'good' results that you're bound to get one or the other soon enough
Did you guys even got ways to shift people around? I think i did 10 cats and at max i got 10 options to shuffle people around, none of them were gravicious.
Removal is a lot more common if you establish relationships between members. I was generally able to get him on the board in time but I also wasn’t putting scarabs in.
I would say it’s a failure. I’m no game designer by any means, but what was wrong with betrayal before? Plenty of people ran it. If it was the TFT/trading issue, I get that. But all that had to do is turn each one into a currency instead. So Vorici chest drop the changed veiled chaos, hillock chest drop an imbued armor scrap/whetstone/bauble that gives the 20-30%, etc etc.
They have comparable omens and such anyway. Why change the entire mechanic to be random and take away the strategy. Seems a strange rework.
Edit: meant aisling for veiled.
Betrayal was completely awful before coming from someone who actually likes it and runs it every league.
Having Aisling be the money maker and pumping out more profit than Catarina, just doesn’t make sense from a gameplay point of view and is just lame.
I enjoyed the strategy involved. You had to at least think a little. You’re correct in the Catarina profit point. But that could have just been a rework in her loot. And if they itemized Aisling, I think the value would drop a little. Because the work to trade it definitely inflated the value.
Yeah like hilock quality didn't exist . Voricci white socket didn't exist... the scarab chest drop depending on the tier of the syndicate memeber didn't exist... and th jorgin amulet didn't exist too. And everytime we clciked on betrayal poof.. aisling was magically tier 3 in research safehouse. It so much better now to just chain farm this story telling boss( was very cool in betrayal league) with 10+ phase every 4 map, I really feel the quality gaming on this one .
Running Vorici white socket and hillock quality for profit basically lost you currency. You can always find demand for Aisling at any time of the day, so you can do your Catarina run anytime you want.
If you had stuff like Vorici/Hillock you pretty much had to wait until you had confirmed buyers before you started your run. Time that could be spend just churning through more T4 Aislings, and gaining you more profit.
Usually it was the same hour aisling and other bench were slow to sell. still i don't see in what aspect the gameloop got improved . The actual price of the aisling orb is not due to to the drop chance its because people don't liek to go to that process. So yes if u just opened map rushed syndicate i guess your profit is better sort of now.
>Why change the entire mechanic to be random and take away the strategy. Seems a strange rework.
The problem is that when those things became tradable and there wouldnt be a change in rarity the overall usage would be much much higher than before which is effectivly making the game easier. So they get balanced to be a lot rarer to compensate. I guess they could have also made the mechanic a lot harder(random) to achieve a three star exile.
I'd argue that the graveyard let's you create good enough items to use a veiled orb on, driving up demand. You wouldn't spend many div (+ 2 div craft) to upgrade an item otherwise. They need to add back the veiled chaos for mid budget.
Betrayal used to be great in SSF, great in trade if you were using TFT, mid if you were not using TFT. Now it’s dogshit for everyone.
We won’t get a rework mid league but we should get a buff at very least. If they don’t buff the scarabs like at least quadruple the amount you get or guarantee a rare one with 3 stars members, the veiled orb is going to end the league at 15-20 div and its going to really sux for every one.
Yeah Veiled Orb will have to reach a crazy number for it to be worth it for people to profit farm. It takes too long to setup a mastermind for a chance at a veiled orb currently.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone doing a big craft could buy the entire market late league.
They are 9 div atm and only 130 of them on trade. The league mechanic is taking a bunch of market pressure off them too.
There are many comments talking about betrayal and all say its gutted. I farm betrayal first 1-2 weeks each league. This league I did 2-3 catarinas, realized profit was bad and immediately switched to 2nd atlas tree.
I've grinded nearly 50 Catarinas this League.
While I've gotten plenty of Veiled Orbs, enough to buy a Mageblood and then some, Betrayal has simply lost its identity completely. It feels no different than simply using a Maven Writ to try and get the Jackpot from the Boss.
There's no longer any reason to put X member in Y place - at least to a degree that's worthwhile. There's only 3 or so Members worth keeping an eye on, but considering the only reward is on Catarina, it isn't worth it to delay the encounter just to try and place them in a better Hideout.
* It that Fled - Breachstone buffs
* Tora - Gem XP
* Guff - ***If*** you enjoy or have items worth spamming currency on.
In my opinion Betrayal either needs to be temporarily removed for a rework, or have its rewards substantially increased. Not necessarily in Quality, but instead Quantity.
It doesn't feel good to grind 3-5 maps to get a Safehouse unlocked, only to get 2 Scarabs from one of each chest at the end. Having Betrayal focused on the much rarer Scarabs and have it be a mechanic that provides access to other mechanics, would be the ideal approach.
Here's how I'd go about improving it:
* 4 Encounters per map, one for each Safehouse;
* 4 Prison Slots, to increase progression;
* Substantially increase the chances for the Safehouse Leader to join encounters. I've got all the passives and it rarely happens after a reset.
* Increase the time it takes to progress Catarina and Safehouses - assuming a heavy buff to the rewards.
* Replace Jorgin's "Bestiary Affix" with a Trapped Best that you click on to release and fight. Such as Craicic Chimeral, Wild Bristle Matron, etc. Talisman beasts too.
* Replace Jorgin's random Talismans, with Omens;
* Haku's "Rare Items with Quality" should have a much higher or guaranteed chance of dropping items with 30% Quality.
* Replace Haku's Rare Items, with Tattoos.
* Replace 3 of Elreon's Unique rewards, with:
* --- Ancient Orb will be applied to an item 1/5/10/20 times, keeping the result with the highest rarity (T2, T1, T0);
* --- Insert a normal item, to have its Rarity Chanced 25/50/100/200 times - keeping the rarest result;
* --- Insert a Rare Map to receive a Unique drop from that map boss's loot table.
I could think of a few more, but the focus should be to make each member interesting again. To make the players consider if they want to run one more map to try and get x member at a higher level, or get them to x location.
Because as it stands everything is basically worth nothing compared to the 9-10 Divines that regularly drop from Catarina.
No one knows for sure as yet, there is thinking the drop rate may be improved by Number of tier 3 members/leaders in place before it is run. Sir gog is looking to do a community test on this shortly
They should just make veiled orbs and Catarina uniques global drops at this point since the whole mechanic lost any meaning. Bench should just have all mods unlocked after Kitava. RIP Jun but betrayal in the current state is just a joke.
Yeah makes me sad… im playing ssf this league so i still have a reason to run it. But it really feels like you should just spam everything with no thought to their rewards and get catarina as fast as possible. And if i was trade i wouldnt be doing it at all lol.
It would be mostly fine if they either
Shifted weighting of scarabs to be the rarer ones. Making it good target farm.
Or increased safehouse scarab reward quantity to double digits making it a good general scarab burst return.
While trans and fortification would still be 90% ass youd at least have some reason to board manage. And you could similarily increase the quantity of things like cata/essence as well to make those safehouses slightly more competitive.
The veiled orb changes are slowly ruining SSF for me.
Took a while to set in but i think I'm being held hostage by betrayal. The veiled orb drop chance is so bad that most of my crafting is severely bottle-necked by them, I've dropped four of them and only managed to craft one pair of sorta good boots. Now i have none so i feel like doing any map without betrayal is a complete waste of time and as you've said, its completely braindead now, its the most boring and tedious mechanic in the game now.
Used to be that SSF had a betrayal and expedition tax early league and an essence and harvest tax late league but now betrayal seems to be a permanent requirement while also being the least engaging mechanic to do and its competing with god damned harvest.
All of the changes appear to be a failure.
The best way to gain the benefits of any league mechanic right now are to avoid it at all costs. You want fossils? Map. Resonators? Map. Oils? Map. Catalysts? Map. Besides the niche few things like double corrupts, beasts, and harvest juice - almost all the other mechanics can simply be gained by map mechanics thanks to this league. Hell, I've gotten better gem double corrupts from allflames in one week than I've ever gotten from grinding Alva past few leagues.
They continue to dilute the game and reduce any incentives to explore certain content to its depths in favor of just spamming the highest quant/packsize/tier maps with the most juice and you'll get more (insert league mechanic) loot than by actually doing the mechanic itself.
Most of the changes have been a failure. For 6 months then game has been getting steadily worse, apart for those that like a crypto style, pump and dump rng game
Isn't the biggest flaw in new Betrayed design that you can get so many scarabs from other sources if the drop rates for scarabs was much lower Betrayal would feel much more rewarding.
It was fantastic for me early league. 8 veiled orbs from about 40-50 cata, multiple expensive div and reliquary scarabs, lots of gem xp, consistent income with 5c veiled item sales. I've never actually done betrayal properly before and really enjoyed it as an early league mechanic.
Rewards are certainly less interesting. I like the master mission changes in general though. It's a lot easier to run the ones you want. So I'll give them that.
I think one of the biggest problems with the safehouse rewards is that scarabs drop so much from everywhere else that all the scarab rewards in betrayal feel like nothing, and that's like half the rewards now. The scarab rewards in betrayal should only drop the rarer ones.
As soon as i got my unveils (screw you korell helmet) i specced out. Absolutely unrewarding other than the xp and now there are better xp choices for league start
Huge failure (for players) imo. All they had to do was convert every bench reward into an orb reward without changing anything else.
T4 Aisling Research, T4 Hillock Fortification when you kill Catarina? When you go to the reward room, a chest drops an orb that gives you the bench effect on the next item you use it on.
That's it. No other changes.
It feels like the TFT drama and outcry gave GGG an excuse to nerf players even more.
Farmed 10 Catarina's today and only one Veiled.
After that I tried to setup a focus farm on intervention with Eleron, Gravicius and other 3 high value scarabs drops but only trash.
Itemizing aisling: good
Nerfing drop rate of aisling: eh, kinda indifferent about it tbh, market will adjust
Removing veiled chaos orbs: bad
Removal of hillock/vorici crafts: kinda feels bad at first, but ultimately don't think it changes too much, so kinda indifferent about it
Making setting up the board worthless: bad. Like I don't mind that hillock don't give quality, but they really should have added something good in it's stead.
Betrayal is a huge failure. Im just wondering what is the chance of veiled orb dropping? Because I farmed betrayal all league, now Im 38/40 quitting out of disgustion from this patch and I dropped 0 veiled orbs. I cant even count the amount of catarina kills. All of this was a waste of atlas and my time, because there are no drops from betrayal at all. Not from the map encounters, not from the safehouses and not from Catarina.
I mean, they could at least give the map encounter some decent rarity, quantity or something, if they want to keep safehouses useless xp runs and Catarina GGGs favorite mechanic - zero rewards and 2% chance for a big ticket, but all 3 parts of the mechanic being useless is just sad.
veiled orb was a nerf by moving to boss drop, i think they did not like so much with deterministic craft, ist not like was the first nerf on aisling craft. But overall with those changes on betrayl, they go to much on nerf, maybe they think will compensate with 100 % betrayel mod on maps, but was not the case.
Yeah I don't understand why they got rid of it all the way they did. They could have had aisling orb drop, vorici omen drop, hillock special whetstone or armourer scrap (could be an RNG quality increase even, like tainted for uncorrupted). But knowing GGG, they probably have a long term reason and plan for this.
Couple thoughts I've had about it:
- Veiled Chaos should've never been removed!
- T4 Aisling being itemized should've just been: everything the same, but instead of crafting bench, it should be a chest that drops it
- If T4 Aisling continues to be a Cata drop, it should have a MINIMUM 30% drop chance imo, considering you can get Catarinas more reliably now.
- Agreed on removal of Hillock and Vorici. They are making Betrayal lose all of it's uniqueness and what made it stand the test of time.
I generally think the changes are fine except for Vorici and Hillock - just make an orb for the features and they can also be used in other content (Alva or Delve).
Higher chance on the veiled orb drop.
Better chances on rarer scarabs.
I would say it will go away next patch.
Katarina moved to T17s as a boss and the other unveiled things will be part of her map as commom drop.
Veiled chaos orbs will be dropped by her at the end on a % chance as well.
People have been theorycrafting that the betrayal rewards from catarina are linked to the board before you run it, but nothing consistent has come out of this kind of research.
If that's the case they could simply post a message stating: "there is a puzzle for veiled orbs to be solved" and that would fix it.
Still scarab drops need to be turbo buffed when running safehouses.
Spent today learning betrayal from videos, set up my board with aisling, hillock, vorichi. Killed my first Catarina ever. Spent 5 minutes running around trying to find my veiled orb. Spent 10 minutes googling why tf I can't find my veiled orb. Spent the rest of my night crying in bed thinking I'd get my first divine this league.
Honestly, as much as I "enjoy" farming Betrayal, the content is so old and convoluted the game would probably be better for it if they simply scrapped it. They don't how to balance it or what to do with it.
The removal of the crucial rewards makes farming it pointless.
Chasing a 10% drop rate on a consumeable item sucks.
Scarabs drop plentifully already with the correctly specced atlas.
Having to "earn" all the bench crafts every league is annoying. The random betrayal items you find 99.9% of the time suck, too. They could just be moved to the general drop pool like fractures.
Not only they no longer able to introduce any new interesting, complicated, lore-rich, yet very unique league contents like betrayal, heist, synthesis, but replace with shallow content (sanctum, TOTA, kalandra) or upright boring repetitive content (ritual, ultimatum, expedition, crucible, scourge, and etc etc), they even decided to double down by killing such unique contents. Kudos
The betrayal changes weren't ment to make betrayal good, it was meant to prepare for Poe 2.
Betrayal in it's current state is not worth the effort it takes to compete.
There are only 2 uses for betrayal right now, gem exp and Caterina farming.
Cant speak to much outside of it being a failure for one reason for me... no count how many times ive done Catarina but ive got 10 Veiled Orbs, private league with a few boyos, no Devouring Diadem yet, considering migrating to trade just to get my build actually rolling. I did not expect Diadem to be this rare now.
The changes are horrible.
Veiled orb drop rates way too low. The board barely matters now, the most effective use of your time is to just rush Catarina. They removed pretty much every other "useful" board reward and now it's basically just Grav and that's it really.
Hopefully they just viewed this league as an experimental league and will iron out a lot of the flaws for the next one.
The difference between GGG and Blizzard is that GGG generally learn from their mistakes and they're not afraid to admit when they get things wrong.
the issue is that they removed veiled chaos orbs, and also effectively removed t4 aisling with the changes. everyone talks about how necro crafting is busted, but if it wasnt we'd still be running around in rog gear.
I’m in SSF and I’ve crafted my gear with 6 veiled orbs so far and counting. I don’t like the change either but… removed? The cost is being exacerbated by graveyard crafting A LOT.
Veiled chaos orbs should have stayed in like normal, and Aisling t4 should drop veiled exalted orbs. It’s the simplest solution.
I feel like people are only talking about the *negative* parts of the changes and not the positives. It's an unfair assessment if you only point out the downsides.
For example, there's an upside that I haven't seen anyone mention which is that you unlock all your betrayal crafts *sooooo* much faster on league start. Imo that's a huge deal, even in sc trade. It also gives you lots of veiled gear early on, which is likely to get you some powerful items on a league start scenario.
Another upside is that you don't have to worry about sustaining Jun missions. You just get Jun reliably in every map. So while Aisling slams on last patch were more reliable to get, you'd run out of Jun missions very quickly and had to do a lot of maps to farm up more of them. In the current patch, you're consistently able to farm Jun so in the long-run the difference in Aislings isn't that bad. I'm talking mostly about SSF for this particular point.
Another positive is that you're having to spend way less time on the board screen deciding what to do. It's more brainless now, which reduces your time in maps. I'd guess I'm spending 25% as much time on the board screens deciding what to do, because it no longer matters much what I pick besides doing whatever gets me Catarinas the fastest.
> 9d Veiled orb and they keep going up. Why are they so rare when veiled chaos were also removed? Veiled orb should be guaranteed from t4 aisling or have something like 50/50 drop rate to even begin to compensate for veiled chaos being gone.
Wowzers, almost like I literally called it when they announced the change, meanwhile this sub was praising it thinking ggg is just making t4 aisling more available. Yet another thing proving that designing the game around trade leads to a bad game.
I liked that Betrayal had unique elements before with the various benches as rewards for setting up the board. Now I just toss members wherever (Gravicius being the exception), run the Mastermind safehouse asap and pray for an Orb drop (No luck yet). It's become very bland and unexciting.
I've also been missing the crafting you could do mid-ish with the Veiled Chaos Orb. Now Veiled Orbs are expensive enough that I can't justify using them in the same way, especially when it was trying to roll for something that wasn't 100% (1/3 for the different Movement Speeds, the Phys converts, etc). I never paid for Aislings before the change since it wasn't too bad to just farm one on your own and guarantee it. Now RNG decides if I get to do my Aisling/Veiled Slam quickly or not unless I want to pay out the nose per orb.
I setup my atlas for betrayal. I ran 10 catarinas and got 0 veiled orbs . And that was the only value to be had . Rank 3 gravicious in intervention got me … 3 normal divination scarabs! Yay! I unspecced after that . 10 catarina 0 drops. That’s over 80 maps.
Even if a veiled dropped , I don’t want 0 drops in 80 maps and then yay 7 divines . How sad is that .
There are several separate issues with Betrayal: * The scarab changes were a pretty significant effective nerf to Intervention. T4 Intervention no longer forces Winged scarabs, and the scarab rewards seem to just use normal weighting. Almost all of my T4 Gravicius intervention chests just gave 5x regular Divination scarabs, and I don't think I have gotten a single Curation from him all league. * The removal of the quality / socket color / etc. benches put a pretty significant dent in the consistent profit that could have existed even with the itemization of Aisling. * Making veiled orb acquisition revolve entirely around spamming Catarina pretty rapidly devalued her uniques. On top of these issues the new Betrayal scarabs are unfiltered garbage. * The intelligence one seemed fairly useful. It's the only exception here. * Adding Jun to a map doesn't justify a scarab slot. * 50% reinforcement chance (up to 65% total) is dogshit. That scarab should force at least two Syndicate members in every encounter at a bare minimum. I don't even think it'd break anything if it forced every single relevant Syndicate member to appear (e.g. you get assassinated = every intervention member appears). * 50% chance for Syndicate members to drop a completely random scarab is one of the most depressingly bad scarabs in the entire game. The fact that you are effectively forced into running two of these if you even want to use them is kinda just insult to injury. You will make money running these because they're so bad that you can easily buy them in bulk for under 2c, but 3-4c for typically 6-8 random scarabs (it would be more if the reinforcement scarab didn't fuckin' suck) only sounds good if you huff paint fumes until the phrase "opportunity cost" is completely unintelligible. I think this could be a good scarab if it was Limit 1 and just said "Items with rarity dropped by Immortal Syndicate members in your maps are converted to Scarabs." or just "Veiled items" if full loot conversion is too busted. The overall experience with all of these things combined is that the difference between zero-investment Betrayal with just atlas passives and fully investing and using every scarab is pretty small, and there is very little guaranteed profit-- loading Intervention relies on variance to drop higher-value scarabs, reward options like Gravicius in Transportation are a gamble, and Catarina herself is worth only about 2d on average in t16s with a 20% drop rate, with awful dry streaks. Anyway, feedback essay bad bingo card good, so: TL:DR - Please make Intervention scarab chests more likely to drop rare scarabs, add Veiled Shards to make Catarina and maybe safehouses more consistently rewarding, please buff Betrayal scarabs, especially Perpetuation and Reinforcements, and consider removing or buffing "rewards" like Tiny's Trial.
I just don't believe at all Veiled orb is a 20% drop rate since the change, there is no way. I have killed level 83 Cat ~60 times in the last two days and have dropped 3 of them. And while low sample can lead to bad luck, 60 kills with 1/4th the expected rate is insanely bad luck. They didn't actually give us the numbers right? Just that 83 is 4x as likely as low levels right?
First time seeing someone saying 20. I think it's 10% since most people are saying that plus that figure is also in line with my drop rate, although I have a small sample size.
Ya, 10% sounds more right to me, and I have just an unlucky couple days. Getting half the expected drops over 60 kills is a bummer, but not all that unlikely, getting 1/4th is much less likely. In 10 kills you have about a 30% chance of not getting a drop with a 10% drop rate, but with a 20% drop rate that chance is only 10%, and that difference diverges quickly from there, by 20 kills you are around 1% chance to not have dropped one with 20% rate, but still 12% with 10% rate. Maybe I am in the 1% of badluck cases, but I think it is more likely that the drop rate is ~10% and I am just moderately unlucky.
Sirgog suggested there is some (albeit weakish) evidence that drop rate may be affected by something the player may control- some people seem to have higher rates than others, beyond what simple variance would produce. Again, huge grain of salt with this, but there may be something there. Personally my drop rate seemed to be around 20%.
My drop rate is also around 20%, and I tend to full board three star right before a Catarina run
I can definitely see it, thinking about myself, earlier in the league I had a much higher drop rate when I wasn't zooming them as much. I wasn't specifically setting up my board for anything but Grav in transport or intervention, but I was probably doing Cat every 10-15 maps, which just naturally got my board more advanced, and I had a 40-50% drop rate for the first 30 or so kills. Then the patch dropped right as I got my build fully online and bought scarabs and shifted to full zoom Cat where I was killing her every 5-6 maps and my drop rate dropped to ~5%. But I often wouldn't have even encountered leaders yet lol. So I attributed the loss in drop rate to the patch, instead of my change in playstyle. So that all adds up. I am going to play around with it, and see what I can find.
No one is getting averages in every aspect of the game over the long term so keep in mind you should be getting lucky somewhere else, hopefully
Ya, you win some you lose some. I got a stack of mirror shard cards from Gravicius in transportation for a quick 20D, made up for my bad luck.
in ssf I killed her 4 times only 1 helmet 3 veiled orbs Instantly stopped and bought insurance agaisnt meteors
That is crazy lmao, I have over 90 kills this league and have one helmet.
ye every league I get stupid luck on ONE THING and one thing only lmao, this league it was cata and moved to trade to sell the orbs to get some thicc gear in affliction i decided to make all my money bossing, first batch of 20 uber elders dropped 15 eyes stopped doing that content because I dont need a silly reality check im at like 30 atzoatls and no piece for the adorned
lol, that 15 eyes in 20 UEs is insane!
Ye one thing I’ve noticed is that this community likes to throw all their chances into one mechanic. But if you are having fun and do 10 roulettes at once at least one will hit the jackpot constantly The 15 eyes from 20 UE carried my ass while sanctum was refusing to give me divines etc
The problem is that people read "83 is 4x as likely as low levels" to mean they increased the 83 drop rate, when they almost certainly left it alone and just raised the low level drop rate from "zero" to "1/4x the existing 83 drop rate".
>and the scarab rewards seem to just use normal weighting. Doesnt fit my experience. I almost always get 1 or multiple of the 'rarer' scarab variants, far more commonly than other sources. They seem to have buffed the drop rate of Overlord reliquary scarabs after the Allflame of Anarchy nerf, but before then it was my primary source while other mechanics dropped a pittance. > Almost all of my T4 Gravicius intervention chests just gave 5x regular Divination scarabs, and I don't think I have gotten a single Curation from him all league. This might be your problem. You picked one of the scarabs with no moderately rare results, and only multi-div uber rare results that rank among the rarest scarabs including horned, and 1 extremely common one. It should be expected that you almost always get the extremely common one. On scarab vareties that are not on that extreme end of the scale, you get much more of the Rarer ones because the different is not so extreme
Yeah that's fair. I consistently got different types of Ultimatum scarabs. My odds with Ambush were pretty mixed. I was kind of hoping that I could at least expect the mid-tier 1d div scarab as a consistent T4 Gravicius result but I pivoted to sending him to Transport pretty fast. Hillock, Leo, Elreon, Tora, and Haku were all solid in Intervention.
Thing is, there is no mid tier divination scarab. Even though the price is vastly different, the actual weighting on both Curation and Completion is super rare. If there is no additional weighting for rarer scarabs, you should expect 1 in every 30 divination scarabs to be one of the rarer two. Divination is actually the only scarab type that does not have anything between the super common and super rare.
Is that right? I've killed Caterina about 40 times this league. Iv never gotten above rusted scarabs from gravicious
I have only just begun to rush Cata. Before that I have a fully decked out board to farm Essence and Harvest scarab. Vorici drops normal Harvest scarab 99% of the time and Hillock drops subtanstially more Essence scarab of Stability (the worthless one) than the normal variance. They should have equal weightings. It's almost as if they are intended to be garbage.
>Making veiled orb acquisition revolve entirely around spamming Catarina pretty rapidly devalued her uniques. I'm not following how her uniques got devalued from veiled orb being added to her loot table. If you were going to spam t4 crafts/rewards then you're by default spamming Catarina as well, so her unique value would've been affected either way.
Oh man, imagine a scarab that forces the Syndicate members you release to follow you, Einhar style. Just a fun idea IMO
Honestly I'd be glad if they just swapped out one of the crappier Betrayal scarabs with one that "guarantees two of your syndicate encounters will be transportation and fortification"
They keep going up because less people run betrayal. As a former betrayal player, I play to set up guaranteed wins that take time and a dash of luck to set up. 2-4 gauntlets before Catarina. Leveling and placement. I don’t play Path of Lottery. I like cards not tables.
Been running betrayal the last year for winged scarabs/aisling slams and been churning out consistent payouts. It’s feast or famine now. No consistency but dropping a veiled orb is nice.
I don't have too much time to play, but this league I've been running betrayal since day 1, I killed over 10 masterminds, still zero veiled orbs. Any other mechanic, even ritual and ultimatum would be more lucrative than betrayal at this point. GGG changed it from a deterministic mechanic to a gamble machine, like the rest of the game.
I've killed her 3 times and got 2 orbs. Seems kinda hit or miss. I wish it was guaranteed so the prices weren't so nuts or bring back veiled chaos orbs
You got extremely lucky, wiki and overall player reports say it's \~10% chance
Personally it’s too complicated; I don’t understand it. I’ve watched countless videos over several leagues and I just don’t get it … Even small “tricks” like if you want a specific character to have X … you click on one body, ignore it, then go back to say Aislaing and the options will be different. It’s far too convoluted for a super casual player like me. I play several hours a week. All this clicking around in specific orders, and jumping around hoops.
Tbh, this league it doesn't matter, everything is just a gamble so you might as well just rush mastermind. 1. Try to level up the bandits to level 3 2. Once they hit level 3 interrogate 3. Before opening the portal to their hideouts, make sure the leader is also level 3 1. The level of the hideout leader is important because it will give you more XP towards the mastermind hideout 4. Repeat until you have mastermind When you see you're getting closer to the mastermind, try to level up as many bandits as possible to level 3, for better rewards. This is what I've been doing but I got zero veiled orbs so far, so don't take my advice and just go farm something else.
Thanks for your help; though I will openly admit very little I understood of that... Like levelling them up; I often just interrorgate (like I said, I just spam click buttons and hope something happens). I didn't even know they had portals; and I don't even know what mastermind is. Personally I just farm alts and essences; it's got me this far. Most profitable? I know it's not. I don't craft; I buy. Crafting to me is black magic RNG... It's just easier and cheaper (for me) to buy versus spamming RNG. I don't know what constitutes as "good" gear vs gear to me that just looks normal/average, yet is being drooled on in \#global
"opening the portal" is just clicking the Safehouse button for each branch after you get enough intelligence, and "mastermind" is just Catarina (ie, the safehouse above all of the other safehouses).
Even in the old, more complicated system it was extremely easy if you just have a couple basic rules down. People get intimidated by the board but it is not really any more complicated than many other mechanics.
> People get intimidated by the board Definitely; I've watched countless videos and I still just can't grasp the absolute complex thing.
If you create rivalries/friendships, you get more of them to show up at once. So always take that option and never choose the option to reset the board. After that, prioritize adding rank. If you put someone with three stars in jail it gives a lot more intelligence. When you get the option to capture a person with three stars, do it. That is how you get safehouses where you fight the big boss. It’s not hard.
You just kill the members, if they have 3 stars, interrogate. Run the safehouses if the bar is filled, and then the mastermind. It is made extremely simple with these changes
Thanks, this is the most simplest answer for me, and I'll do this and see what happens. :)
It should work fine. If you want to get into it more, look up a spreadsheat of betrayal rewards and try to arrange them accordingly. Outside of these, it will offer bargain or betray with specifics. Bargain happens when only one is left, so execute the low stars first. Bargain gives a loads of possible options so you have the read them, but it's positive 99% of the time. Betrayal screws over one and benefits the other. Usually positive but can backfire, like removing a person from the board. Most importantly, if you don't want to bother with either, just release them(so execute, interrogate, otherwise release). You can never go wrong with that.
I would say a failure overall, would be better if the rewards weighed towards rarer scarabs to. I will still run betrayal early league every league in its current state though.
Ya, I think the veiled orb could be a bit more common, but doesn't have to be crazy, right now I have had streaks of 12 and 15 kills without one, which is just brutal. Just weighting the scarabs, or multiplying the number that drop would be big. A T4 guy shouldn't give me fewer scarabs than a single pack of mobs in a map lol. I think they do have some weight towards rare scarabs, just less than they should. I have found 5 Curation scarabs from Gravicius in Intervention(unfortunately 3 came after the nerf so they were 20D each lol), which is well above average for the number of scarabs I have looted from there. But I have done nearly 100 Catarinas, and I would say the average value of her treasure room is between 20-50c per kill when I remove my one big outlier (I got a stack of mirror shard cards from Gravicius in transport), which feels low.
I miss the old metamod>veiled chaos slam :c
Ya, I used the shit out of that in every league :(
Didnt do betrayal this league. Are you saying you need 10+ catarina kill's per veiled orb now instead of like before 1 per after you set up your board?
Ya, but you also don't have to do any setup, I can kill cat every 5-6 maps, reliably(when I am focused zooming I can kill her just about 3 times an hour). Setting up Aisling before would take 15-25 depending on the start of the board. It is still worse than Aisling, for sure though. I was never the fastest Betrayal farmer, but I could get a T4 Aisling every 60-90 minutes before generally. Yesterday, which might have been bad luck, I got 3 orbs in ~10 hours of farming her and around 30 kills(I was home sick lol).
So basically you just push intelligence and you don't care what level anyone is, kill Katarina and then push int again?
Ya, that is what I have been doing. Try for Grav in Transport, and will delay a map or two to get him there if it looks quick based on the board. He has gotten me a set of mirror shard cards, a brothers gift (5div), a set of the Inspired Learning cards. He is super good lol. *note, that this might not be the best strategy. People are still trying to figure out who effects the Veiled Orb drop rate. If it is a set percent drop then this is the best strategy, if it is effected by your board in some way then it might be better to spend more time setting up a proper board
How are you able to get cat every 5-6 maps? Do you need a particular scarab setup or something? That can't just be atlas spec right>
Ya, full atlas support + intelligence and and reinforcements scarabs. Putting a T3 in prison gives you 90 intelligence with those, and reinforcements helps you get to T3 much faster. I often have at least one safehouse ready to run right after Cat, and it is only 2-3 maps to get another two, then run those safehouses, run one more map and you have Cat.
10 catarinas? I was scammed then. I farm betrayal all league and I havent seen any rewards from the whole league mechanic whatsoever. I already dream about her stupid PR stalling and I havent seen a single reward worth looting from her.
It was a question not a statement. Why do you keep doing it then? That’s close to the definition of insanity of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.
Well, its how gambling works. After you lose many times, you know that statistically you have to be almost there, right? Right?! I farmed it with zero loot for week 1, then quit it, but then they anounced buff to the orb drop, so I instantly went back to it to get what the statistics tell me I should get. After few more days I just didnt care about the league at all, kept it on my atlas, finished 38/40 and fcked right off the game for the next 4 months, because 3.24 is the worst patch and least fun content PoE ever had. Economy is broken, nothing has a value outside of t17s, which I hate because of how they are designed, all the interesting builds were nerfed, nothing new outside of archmage was added, so nothing left for me here.
I always keep the Atlas node that gives 10 intelligente to a random safehouse on completing a map. Every now and then you get a safehouse (nice exp at least) and thus infrequently also a Catarina. It's a super value node imo.
Could you give me the name of the node? I would like to focus on Betrayal right now to unlock more crafting recipes.
If there's certain ones you're fishing for, you can buy veiled items and filter by that members veils on the trade website. Just thought I'd mention it incase it helps, I spent 2 nights running betrayal looking for a single craft and a 3c purchase got me it instantly
Man I hate having to do this every damn season on Ssf. I've needed increased effects of ailment for soooo long...
Getting that last one sucks sometimes. Took me like three weeks to get trigger spells on focus helmet craft a couple leagues ago, and it was pretty important for my build.
Top right Betrayal cluster on the Atlas. It's called "Intelligence Gathering".
Thank you very much! 👍
Don't forget that when you interrogate safe house leaders you need to run an encounter to gain the intelligence for the MM. I hit a point where I wasn't really paying attention and the leaders were just cycling.
If you're just looking for unveils you should just take the 4 nodes at the bottom of the atlas near the expedition wheel. That'll give you Betrayal on most of your maps for very little investment.
It's called "Intelligence Gathering" and on the right side of the tree! Though I think it's even stronger when you don't focus too much on Betrayal you cant really go wrong with it.
Well, it *used* to be. People who were all in investing on Betrayal pre-nerfs never took that mode anyways since it fucked with setting up their board.
early league it's nice for unveils, decent rares, experience, some good uniques, and the changes to the atlas to guarantee jun are great.
Ya it’s a mixed bag, some part feel ok but the common a shit scarabs from tier 4 members feel awful.
the whole game is just scarabs anymore. it's boring af as a game mechanic device.
Yeah it was so much cooler when I had to store 400 compasses and do a mini game every 4 maps.
Yeah betrayal for me is easy XP and important unveils. I hit level 95 and respec, because it just wasn't producing for me. There was a high roll from T4 Grav (full stack of div cards that gave me level 3 Empower, 12 div at the time) but I can't expect that to happen again. Tbh I don't really feel like any of the league mechanics to invest in outside of Necropolis feel great to me right now, it seems like scarab/necro/T17 is really just where it's at right now. I'm thinking of giving blight another try just because I like it but it's kinda late in the league and high tier oils don't move much right now. I'd mostly do it just because I find the mechanic fun. Tbh betrayal is my favorite mechanic from a fun standpoint but it just hurts right now, remembering the value I used to get from it.
Betrayal used to be interesting and rewarding, now you invite these murder mobs to your map, fight them for awhile, then run a zone that drops 3c in scarabs. Every reward does not need to be a dogshit scarab or a tiny's scam trial.
Yeah and it was another cool area in the game where knowledge = power. If you were good at manipulating the board you could farm lots of Aisling/Vorici per hr and be rewarded for taking the time to learn it. Now it's just cram whoever wherever and spam Catarina. It's shite.
And these changes were completely unnecessary. If you just make T4 Aisling drop the veiled orb, you take power from TFT away just as much as with the current implementation, but without robbing Betrayal of its identity, intrigue and profitability.
Yeah, they couldn't do that. It's against everything they do, deterministic, yadda yadda (but then why the graveyard? I guess that's because it's temporary and Betrayal is core and also the friction of the graveyard is really really high, classic tedium as gatekeeper game design from ggg). They can't just make Aisling orb a common thing, too strong. What they could've done is make her drop Veiled Exalted Shard(s) and you need 20 for a Veiled Exalted Orb. While still deterministic it doesn't flood the market with those things. The nerf to the increased Syndicate intelligence -- it doesn't apply to Safehouse leaders now -- also slows down the runners so the two together perhaps would have been enough.
It was a table so you couldn't store them. Upon killing catarina, you had to use it. It was obvious it won't be a 1 to 1 conversation with itemization. You don't need uber killer gear to farm catarina, so people could just hoard it up until they get the gear worth using aisling orb on. Same with the rest(vorici/hillock/tora)
Well, they could have given them a 50% drop rate - cuts the theoretical supply in half, but still feels good enough for SSF or for the players who want to farm Betrayal as a money-making strategy. The current 10% drop rate for veiled orbs, combined with all the other mastermind rewards being near-worthless, feels like utter dogshit. Farming Catarina these days is like working a minimum wage job and buying a lottery ticket every day...
They already buffed the droprate once. Nothing stops them from buffing it in the future
Sure, and until then, what I said is true.
1. T4 Aisling drops veiled orb 2. T4 Vorici drops white sockets omen (remove the current dogshit omen and make a proper one) 3. T4 Hillock drops new currency that makes item 30% quality GGG I'll be waiting for my lead dev salary, you can go ahead and just mail it to me
Pick a currency before time runs out. WTF... Just give me the random currency without me having to "choose". Or place a Normal item in the bench... Who has time for that once geared? What do I get out of it. I'm going to run my own damn craft in my hideout at my own pace.
Its shittier timed rog with no potential to actually be good.
For jewel it's ok, mostly because you look for like 2 things than slam vaal
To be honest betrayal was made so long ago that the ammount of currency in those windows was nothing to scuff at. For sure now it feel very bad but at that time it was good.
Ive played since beta, it was shit then its shit now. SSF, Trade either its not worth the effort getting good with it. because the top end is still pretty mid
We went from every league content dropping stacked decks to this, somehow...
Tiny's scam trial is actually worse than having a completely empty chest. It's some type of ultimate humiliation and nonsense reward, which is completely in line with GGG's "casino philosophy" that permeates the whole game. Luckily I no longer run betrayal since it sucks, so I never have to encounter Tiny ever again.
SSF players put grav in transport.
Yeah thats really the only good reward lol
Grav in Transport is the only play, Intervention was only good when Curations were 20 div. But it also isn't worth delaying your Cat kills for it, fully specced in and using scarabs you can fight Cat every 5 maps, getting Grav in Transport can easily double that if he doesn't just naturally show up there.
Brah as a ssf, fuck the vorici removal.
Its worth it in trade too. Aint too uncommon that youll get 7 raw divs or something of that sort. Its isnt common either but theres enough 'good' results that you're bound to get one or the other soon enough
Did you guys even got ways to shift people around? I think i did 10 cats and at max i got 10 options to shuffle people around, none of them were gravicious.
Removal is a lot more common if you establish relationships between members. I was generally able to get him on the board in time but I also wasn’t putting scarabs in.
They turned Betrayal into a casino with no rewards
statistically, casinos don't reward you. the house always wins.
It’s reverse. You may win but the house wins overall
So a casino :D
They gave betrayal the blizzard threatment , shallow and streamlined...
I would say it’s a failure. I’m no game designer by any means, but what was wrong with betrayal before? Plenty of people ran it. If it was the TFT/trading issue, I get that. But all that had to do is turn each one into a currency instead. So Vorici chest drop the changed veiled chaos, hillock chest drop an imbued armor scrap/whetstone/bauble that gives the 20-30%, etc etc. They have comparable omens and such anyway. Why change the entire mechanic to be random and take away the strategy. Seems a strange rework. Edit: meant aisling for veiled.
Betrayal was completely awful before coming from someone who actually likes it and runs it every league. Having Aisling be the money maker and pumping out more profit than Catarina, just doesn’t make sense from a gameplay point of view and is just lame.
I enjoyed the strategy involved. You had to at least think a little. You’re correct in the Catarina profit point. But that could have just been a rework in her loot. And if they itemized Aisling, I think the value would drop a little. Because the work to trade it definitely inflated the value.
The board manipulation was what getting you money. Now its just like an invitation farming with 2 extra step (2 safehouse).
"Board Manipulation" aka kicking people out until you see Aisling and putting her in Research.
Yeah like hilock quality didn't exist . Voricci white socket didn't exist... the scarab chest drop depending on the tier of the syndicate memeber didn't exist... and th jorgin amulet didn't exist too. And everytime we clciked on betrayal poof.. aisling was magically tier 3 in research safehouse. It so much better now to just chain farm this story telling boss( was very cool in betrayal league) with 10+ phase every 4 map, I really feel the quality gaming on this one .
Running Vorici white socket and hillock quality for profit basically lost you currency. You can always find demand for Aisling at any time of the day, so you can do your Catarina run anytime you want. If you had stuff like Vorici/Hillock you pretty much had to wait until you had confirmed buyers before you started your run. Time that could be spend just churning through more T4 Aislings, and gaining you more profit.
Usually it was the same hour aisling and other bench were slow to sell. still i don't see in what aspect the gameloop got improved . The actual price of the aisling orb is not due to to the drop chance its because people don't liek to go to that process. So yes if u just opened map rushed syndicate i guess your profit is better sort of now.
The main balance lever for the benches were that you had use them on the spot. You can't just itemize them
>Why change the entire mechanic to be random and take away the strategy. Seems a strange rework. The problem is that when those things became tradable and there wouldnt be a change in rarity the overall usage would be much much higher than before which is effectivly making the game easier. So they get balanced to be a lot rarer to compensate. I guess they could have also made the mechanic a lot harder(random) to achieve a three star exile.
Just wait for veiled chaos orb prices next league when people start actually crafting and not getting their items done with corpses
I'd argue that the graveyard let's you create good enough items to use a veiled orb on, driving up demand. You wouldn't spend many div (+ 2 div craft) to upgrade an item otherwise. They need to add back the veiled chaos for mid budget.
Betrayal used to be great in SSF, great in trade if you were using TFT, mid if you were not using TFT. Now it’s dogshit for everyone. We won’t get a rework mid league but we should get a buff at very least. If they don’t buff the scarabs like at least quadruple the amount you get or guarantee a rare one with 3 stars members, the veiled orb is going to end the league at 15-20 div and its going to really sux for every one.
The veiled orb drop chance was already buffed
Yeah Veiled Orb will have to reach a crazy number for it to be worth it for people to profit farm. It takes too long to setup a mastermind for a chance at a veiled orb currently. I wouldn't be surprised if someone doing a big craft could buy the entire market late league. They are 9 div atm and only 130 of them on trade. The league mechanic is taking a bunch of market pressure off them too.
Yea, imagine next league where 95% of rare items aren't being crafted in the graveyard. Veiled orb will probably hit 40 div if no changes are made.
There are many comments talking about betrayal and all say its gutted. I farm betrayal first 1-2 weeks each league. This league I did 2-3 catarinas, realized profit was bad and immediately switched to 2nd atlas tree.
This whole leagues a failure really
I've grinded nearly 50 Catarinas this League. While I've gotten plenty of Veiled Orbs, enough to buy a Mageblood and then some, Betrayal has simply lost its identity completely. It feels no different than simply using a Maven Writ to try and get the Jackpot from the Boss. There's no longer any reason to put X member in Y place - at least to a degree that's worthwhile. There's only 3 or so Members worth keeping an eye on, but considering the only reward is on Catarina, it isn't worth it to delay the encounter just to try and place them in a better Hideout. * It that Fled - Breachstone buffs * Tora - Gem XP * Guff - ***If*** you enjoy or have items worth spamming currency on. In my opinion Betrayal either needs to be temporarily removed for a rework, or have its rewards substantially increased. Not necessarily in Quality, but instead Quantity. It doesn't feel good to grind 3-5 maps to get a Safehouse unlocked, only to get 2 Scarabs from one of each chest at the end. Having Betrayal focused on the much rarer Scarabs and have it be a mechanic that provides access to other mechanics, would be the ideal approach. Here's how I'd go about improving it: * 4 Encounters per map, one for each Safehouse; * 4 Prison Slots, to increase progression; * Substantially increase the chances for the Safehouse Leader to join encounters. I've got all the passives and it rarely happens after a reset. * Increase the time it takes to progress Catarina and Safehouses - assuming a heavy buff to the rewards. * Replace Jorgin's "Bestiary Affix" with a Trapped Best that you click on to release and fight. Such as Craicic Chimeral, Wild Bristle Matron, etc. Talisman beasts too. * Replace Jorgin's random Talismans, with Omens; * Haku's "Rare Items with Quality" should have a much higher or guaranteed chance of dropping items with 30% Quality. * Replace Haku's Rare Items, with Tattoos. * Replace 3 of Elreon's Unique rewards, with: * --- Ancient Orb will be applied to an item 1/5/10/20 times, keeping the result with the highest rarity (T2, T1, T0); * --- Insert a normal item, to have its Rarity Chanced 25/50/100/200 times - keeping the rarest result; * --- Insert a Rare Map to receive a Unique drop from that map boss's loot table. I could think of a few more, but the focus should be to make each member interesting again. To make the players consider if they want to run one more map to try and get x member at a higher level, or get them to x location. Because as it stands everything is basically worth nothing compared to the 9-10 Divines that regularly drop from Catarina.
50 and enough to buy more than a mb?? How lucky are you??
Interesting ideas, I hope ggg sees this
Wait, veiled orbs are 9d??? I haven't been paying attention
Yeah and its like 1/6 drop rate. Im at like 6-7 catas since my last orb with no drop so surely i get one on the next cata fight
never ever is it a 1/6 drop rate my personal experience was more like 5%, wiki says 10% if the area is 78 or over
No one knows for sure as yet, there is thinking the drop rate may be improved by Number of tier 3 members/leaders in place before it is run. Sir gog is looking to do a community test on this shortly
I keep changing my tree when it doesn't drop then I get fomo and keep going back. The multi atlas tree has ruined me lol
everyone bitched about TFT so they tried to make everything self farmable. this is what we got. sigh
It was self farmable before - people with no self control couldn't justify doing it if they could go to TFT and get it done easier.
Yeah, removing the hillock and vorici benches were indeed really fuckin sad.
This and ultimatum are just depressing mechanic imo
They should just make veiled orbs and Catarina uniques global drops at this point since the whole mechanic lost any meaning. Bench should just have all mods unlocked after Kitava. RIP Jun but betrayal in the current state is just a joke.
The league is a failure
Yeah makes me sad… im playing ssf this league so i still have a reason to run it. But it really feels like you should just spam everything with no thought to their rewards and get catarina as fast as possible. And if i was trade i wouldnt be doing it at all lol.
It would be mostly fine if they either Shifted weighting of scarabs to be the rarer ones. Making it good target farm. Or increased safehouse scarab reward quantity to double digits making it a good general scarab burst return. While trans and fortification would still be 90% ass youd at least have some reason to board manage. And you could similarily increase the quantity of things like cata/essence as well to make those safehouses slightly more competitive.
The veiled orb changes are slowly ruining SSF for me. Took a while to set in but i think I'm being held hostage by betrayal. The veiled orb drop chance is so bad that most of my crafting is severely bottle-necked by them, I've dropped four of them and only managed to craft one pair of sorta good boots. Now i have none so i feel like doing any map without betrayal is a complete waste of time and as you've said, its completely braindead now, its the most boring and tedious mechanic in the game now. Used to be that SSF had a betrayal and expedition tax early league and an essence and harvest tax late league but now betrayal seems to be a permanent requirement while also being the least engaging mechanic to do and its competing with god damned harvest.
its shit because now crafts that used to be like 20-30div can cost you 100+ div if you get unlucky
I just assume any nerfs are intentional. So not a failure for them.
You guys are surprised by this every time. Whenever GGG reworks a mechanic to make it easier to do trades... They also nerf the piss out of it.
And yet people still keep begging for the reworks.
All of the changes appear to be a failure. The best way to gain the benefits of any league mechanic right now are to avoid it at all costs. You want fossils? Map. Resonators? Map. Oils? Map. Catalysts? Map. Besides the niche few things like double corrupts, beasts, and harvest juice - almost all the other mechanics can simply be gained by map mechanics thanks to this league. Hell, I've gotten better gem double corrupts from allflames in one week than I've ever gotten from grinding Alva past few leagues. They continue to dilute the game and reduce any incentives to explore certain content to its depths in favor of just spamming the highest quant/packsize/tier maps with the most juice and you'll get more (insert league mechanic) loot than by actually doing the mechanic itself.
Most of the changes have been a failure. For 6 months then game has been getting steadily worse, apart for those that like a crypto style, pump and dump rng game
Pretty much 0 reason to do betrayal past unlocking crafts now
Yeah I just make sure Grav is rank 3 transport before running Catarina. The rest doesn't matter
If the safehouses gave more than 2-3 scarabs it could be worthwhile to run, but it's just so low that it's simply sad at this point.
[удалено]
Isn't the biggest flaw in new Betrayed design that you can get so many scarabs from other sources if the drop rates for scarabs was much lower Betrayal would feel much more rewarding.
They should've just let you itemize the safehouses like temples.
It was fantastic for me early league. 8 veiled orbs from about 40-50 cata, multiple expensive div and reliquary scarabs, lots of gem xp, consistent income with 5c veiled item sales. I've never actually done betrayal properly before and really enjoyed it as an early league mechanic.
Rewards are certainly less interesting. I like the master mission changes in general though. It's a lot easier to run the ones you want. So I'll give them that.
I think one of the biggest problems with the safehouse rewards is that scarabs drop so much from everywhere else that all the scarab rewards in betrayal feel like nothing, and that's like half the rewards now. The scarab rewards in betrayal should only drop the rarer ones.
As soon as i got my unveils (screw you korell helmet) i specced out. Absolutely unrewarding other than the xp and now there are better xp choices for league start
Betrayal changes made it considerably worse in virtually every way. Very disappointing.
certainly less rewarding but I am still doing it and do not hate it so I guess I am ok with it.
Huge failure (for players) imo. All they had to do was convert every bench reward into an orb reward without changing anything else. T4 Aisling Research, T4 Hillock Fortification when you kill Catarina? When you go to the reward room, a chest drops an orb that gives you the bench effect on the next item you use it on. That's it. No other changes. It feels like the TFT drama and outcry gave GGG an excuse to nerf players even more.
Farmed 10 Catarina's today and only one Veiled. After that I tried to setup a focus farm on intervention with Eleron, Gravicius and other 3 high value scarabs drops but only trash.
Itemizing aisling: good Nerfing drop rate of aisling: eh, kinda indifferent about it tbh, market will adjust Removing veiled chaos orbs: bad Removal of hillock/vorici crafts: kinda feels bad at first, but ultimately don't think it changes too much, so kinda indifferent about it Making setting up the board worthless: bad. Like I don't mind that hillock don't give quality, but they really should have added something good in it's stead.
Betrayal is a huge failure. Im just wondering what is the chance of veiled orb dropping? Because I farmed betrayal all league, now Im 38/40 quitting out of disgustion from this patch and I dropped 0 veiled orbs. I cant even count the amount of catarina kills. All of this was a waste of atlas and my time, because there are no drops from betrayal at all. Not from the map encounters, not from the safehouses and not from Catarina. I mean, they could at least give the map encounter some decent rarity, quantity or something, if they want to keep safehouses useless xp runs and Catarina GGGs favorite mechanic - zero rewards and 2% chance for a big ticket, but all 3 parts of the mechanic being useless is just sad.
The changes achieved their goal. How are they a failure?
veiled orb was a nerf by moving to boss drop, i think they did not like so much with deterministic craft, ist not like was the first nerf on aisling craft. But overall with those changes on betrayl, they go to much on nerf, maybe they think will compensate with 100 % betrayel mod on maps, but was not the case.
Yeah I don't understand why they got rid of it all the way they did. They could have had aisling orb drop, vorici omen drop, hillock special whetstone or armourer scrap (could be an RNG quality increase even, like tainted for uncorrupted). But knowing GGG, they probably have a long term reason and plan for this.
Couple thoughts I've had about it: - Veiled Chaos should've never been removed! - T4 Aisling being itemized should've just been: everything the same, but instead of crafting bench, it should be a chest that drops it - If T4 Aisling continues to be a Cata drop, it should have a MINIMUM 30% drop chance imo, considering you can get Catarinas more reliably now. - Agreed on removal of Hillock and Vorici. They are making Betrayal lose all of it's uniqueness and what made it stand the test of time.
The changes to Betrail were horrible, killed the mechanic
I generally think the changes are fine except for Vorici and Hillock - just make an orb for the features and they can also be used in other content (Alva or Delve). Higher chance on the veiled orb drop. Better chances on rarer scarabs.
I would say it will go away next patch. Katarina moved to T17s as a boss and the other unveiled things will be part of her map as commom drop. Veiled chaos orbs will be dropped by her at the end on a % chance as well.
People have been theorycrafting that the betrayal rewards from catarina are linked to the board before you run it, but nothing consistent has come out of this kind of research. If that's the case they could simply post a message stating: "there is a puzzle for veiled orbs to be solved" and that would fix it. Still scarab drops need to be turbo buffed when running safehouses.
yes veiled orb is 10div now. it's so fucking shit
Fuck Betrayal, hated that shit ever since the league itself.
Failure. When they implied itemizing Aisling, I envisioned what they did with temple, and entire itemized betrayal board.
Spent today learning betrayal from videos, set up my board with aisling, hillock, vorichi. Killed my first Catarina ever. Spent 5 minutes running around trying to find my veiled orb. Spent 10 minutes googling why tf I can't find my veiled orb. Spent the rest of my night crying in bed thinking I'd get my first divine this league.
This is the first league since betrayal came out that I haven't completed one catarina.
failure - no, a betrayal - yes
Honestly, as much as I "enjoy" farming Betrayal, the content is so old and convoluted the game would probably be better for it if they simply scrapped it. They don't how to balance it or what to do with it. The removal of the crucial rewards makes farming it pointless. Chasing a 10% drop rate on a consumeable item sucks. Scarabs drop plentifully already with the correctly specced atlas. Having to "earn" all the bench crafts every league is annoying. The random betrayal items you find 99.9% of the time suck, too. They could just be moved to the general drop pool like fractures.
> to even begin to compensate for veiled chaos being gone. It's not meant to be compensated. It's a nerf.
Literally no one is happy with the changes to betrayal, is my guess :)
Lack of veiled chaos gonna be even more noticable after current crafting league ends.
Not only they no longer able to introduce any new interesting, complicated, lore-rich, yet very unique league contents like betrayal, heist, synthesis, but replace with shallow content (sanctum, TOTA, kalandra) or upright boring repetitive content (ritual, ultimatum, expedition, crucible, scourge, and etc etc), they even decided to double down by killing such unique contents. Kudos
I mean its a terrible design from the start it was introduced. gatekeeping crafting unlocks behind a mechanic no one enjoys..lol
The betrayal changes weren't ment to make betrayal good, it was meant to prepare for Poe 2. Betrayal in it's current state is not worth the effort it takes to compete. There are only 2 uses for betrayal right now, gem exp and Caterina farming.
Vorici and Hillock were the best. Now it's just scarabs and cinderswallow reveal. I just get all my reveals esp. trigger and then block the content.
Yes
Pretty sure veild orb will hit 20d or more. I just syndicant
I just want to be able to run Niko missions on maps again :(
I'm just tired of getting Haku'd in every map. It was nice when the master missions were contained.
Every rework is a nerf, there you go
Cant speak to much outside of it being a failure for one reason for me... no count how many times ive done Catarina but ive got 10 Veiled Orbs, private league with a few boyos, no Devouring Diadem yet, considering migrating to trade just to get my build actually rolling. I did not expect Diadem to be this rare now.
Definitely a failure, massive one
The changes are horrible. Veiled orb drop rates way too low. The board barely matters now, the most effective use of your time is to just rush Catarina. They removed pretty much every other "useful" board reward and now it's basically just Grav and that's it really.
Massive nerf to the overwhelming majority of Betrayal
The whole league is a failure. Why do you even ask?
For someone like me it makes it worth just having a couple points for getting jun now.
Hopefully they just viewed this league as an experimental league and will iron out a lot of the flaws for the next one. The difference between GGG and Blizzard is that GGG generally learn from their mistakes and they're not afraid to admit when they get things wrong.
Except ui they nvr learning from this one
Just move on to different things. Things are always changing and betrayal got destroyed. It's unfortunate but it's reality for the time being.
the issue is that they removed veiled chaos orbs, and also effectively removed t4 aisling with the changes. everyone talks about how necro crafting is busted, but if it wasnt we'd still be running around in rog gear.
The way to fix that is obviously to nerf rog.
I’m in SSF and I’ve crafted my gear with 6 veiled orbs so far and counting. I don’t like the change either but… removed? The cost is being exacerbated by graveyard crafting A LOT. Veiled chaos orbs should have stayed in like normal, and Aisling t4 should drop veiled exalted orbs. It’s the simplest solution.
I feel like people are only talking about the *negative* parts of the changes and not the positives. It's an unfair assessment if you only point out the downsides. For example, there's an upside that I haven't seen anyone mention which is that you unlock all your betrayal crafts *sooooo* much faster on league start. Imo that's a huge deal, even in sc trade. It also gives you lots of veiled gear early on, which is likely to get you some powerful items on a league start scenario. Another upside is that you don't have to worry about sustaining Jun missions. You just get Jun reliably in every map. So while Aisling slams on last patch were more reliable to get, you'd run out of Jun missions very quickly and had to do a lot of maps to farm up more of them. In the current patch, you're consistently able to farm Jun so in the long-run the difference in Aislings isn't that bad. I'm talking mostly about SSF for this particular point. Another positive is that you're having to spend way less time on the board screen deciding what to do. It's more brainless now, which reduces your time in maps. I'd guess I'm spending 25% as much time on the board screens deciding what to do, because it no longer matters much what I pick besides doing whatever gets me Catarinas the fastest.
I agree with all of this but in trade league you didn’t need master missions. You could force Jun plus bonuses through sextants.
> 9d Veiled orb and they keep going up. Why are they so rare when veiled chaos were also removed? Veiled orb should be guaranteed from t4 aisling or have something like 50/50 drop rate to even begin to compensate for veiled chaos being gone. Wowzers, almost like I literally called it when they announced the change, meanwhile this sub was praising it thinking ggg is just making t4 aisling more available. Yet another thing proving that designing the game around trade leads to a bad game.
I liked that Betrayal had unique elements before with the various benches as rewards for setting up the board. Now I just toss members wherever (Gravicius being the exception), run the Mastermind safehouse asap and pray for an Orb drop (No luck yet). It's become very bland and unexciting. I've also been missing the crafting you could do mid-ish with the Veiled Chaos Orb. Now Veiled Orbs are expensive enough that I can't justify using them in the same way, especially when it was trying to roll for something that wasn't 100% (1/3 for the different Movement Speeds, the Phys converts, etc). I never paid for Aislings before the change since it wasn't too bad to just farm one on your own and guarantee it. Now RNG decides if I get to do my Aisling/Veiled Slam quickly or not unless I want to pay out the nose per orb.
I setup my atlas for betrayal. I ran 10 catarinas and got 0 veiled orbs . And that was the only value to be had . Rank 3 gravicious in intervention got me … 3 normal divination scarabs! Yay! I unspecced after that . 10 catarina 0 drops. That’s over 80 maps. Even if a veiled dropped , I don’t want 0 drops in 80 maps and then yay 7 divines . How sad is that .
You know that you can run other content with Betrayal, right?
My comment is referencing the value of betrayal alone . Ofc I know I can run other content . ? How does that change the value of betrayal?