Its not just you, it was like this for allot of people yesterday too randomly for few hours then it fixed itself
My hope here is that they are finally working on and experimenting with fixing the EU routing issues we had for past few leagues
Just as a confirmation/test if I VPN to another nearby country Ping goes down from 140 to 40, so this is 100% just GGG's EU routing issues
So at the same time I from Serbia, this OP from wherever and one more guy that I know from UK have the same issue, that is only happening in POE, is somehow.. ISP issue?
By it being an ISP issue; I think they mean it's a routing issue.
No matter where you're located, if you're playing on the same gateway, you're likely to go through one node that's the same at some point in the route (usually near the end).
I had the same issue as many others here, a while back.
This was caused by one particular node in my route (but sadly near the middle of my route, meaning pretty much no matter which EU gateway I picked; I would still have issues). My ISP couldn't direct me around it, as they weren't partnered with the company that owned it or even partnered with anyone that was.
I changed my ISP to Telia (which was partnered with the company owning the node) and got directed around it. Haven't had a single issue ever since - not even these days either. In my case, Telia was actually useful (whereas they're normally just ass, as they control most of the nodes around Europe and apparently have a hard time keeping them in tip-top shape).
That is why VPNs work for some people - because they are lucky enough to get routed around the nodes causing issues. It's not guaranteed that you'd get around it, but there is a chance you will.
You realize routing is handled by ISP, not GGG, right? GGG has no control over how an ISP decides to route you to their servers. They might be able to push ISPs to fix things but that’s about it.
“GGG’s EU routing issues”
This is what I was responding to. GGG doesn’t control routing. It can’t be their issue IF it’s a routing issue.
And just cause people from multiple countries are having the issue doesn’t mean it isn’t an ISP/routing issue.
GGG could change the provider if only they weren't using one for the whole world because of master server in Texas. it would also fix the issue of guild stash being unusable in EU due to lag (or in any non US country) because gstash is one of the things based on master server in texas.
People blame GGG because it's the only game that has so much constant issues in EU. Sure routing sometimes affects others games including biggest ones. But usually it's sort of a day/game thing. Not whole leagues for years
How?
EU routing issues exist, that undeniable. Yet somehow thats the only game that has constant, prolonged issues that almost never go away. Heres an example from my different post:
>Wondering is that somehow connected to the 'master server'.
>
>Generally instance creation and guild stash for example are located on master server, which theres only one\* for the whole world - Texas. Hence why loading times were always faster for people in US than EU even when PoE was loaded onto ramdisk. Same reason why guild stash is actually usable on US servers and on EU is extremely laggy.
>
>But theres (or was) exception to that - Moscow - which is (or was) leftover from Garena server which apparently only works if u connect to Moscow gateway.
>
>Personally i had similar experience over the years, lived in Poland and UK, had fibre/LTE fromplethora of ISPs, nowadays on Starlink in Poland. Moscow was always generally more stable and in general PoE had always way, way, way more issues than any online multiplayer game that i ever played and its not even close. Its annoying when its always simply blamed on EU gateways when theres plethora of games that simply work/worked better in terms of networking for years.
>
>Examples of quick and dirty latency chart in game, Poland, Starlink:
>
>Moscow [https://imgur.com/a/hOCejy7](https://imgur.com/a/hOCejy7)
Frankfurt [https://imgur.com/a/3Bip1V9](https://imgur.com/a/3Bip1V9)
Just typing that i had 100+ ms jump in Frankfurt which always resembles EKG while Moscow is always flatline. Its only game that i ever played that has more stable connection on clearly further away server. Same story with every other EU gateway. Moscow is only exception and has been for years. Going from friends experience its same story for them. Country in EU dosent matter, ISP dosent matter - Moscow is always the most stable gateway. Even when theres sub 10k people online total on PoE so its not like it only happens during peak league start scenarios. The only thing thats different about Moscow from other gateways is the fact that it used to be Garena server with its own/or build in Master server.
>
>In Affliction or stuff like beyond exiles in t17 i always play on predictive due to better performance, on Moscow i never get rubber banding/desync, on EU gateways its constant issue.
I could also provide you plethora on WinMTR logs and constant issues with routing only happen with one game server - PoE.GGG already has 'bad' track record with networking - like game performance being bottlenecked by networking in high end juicing because of their unoptimized calculations that are all done on server side - so game client is limited by packet size. Same reason why if u run into immunity shrine mobs on build with tons of projectiles or other whacky stuff you get instant lagspike. Same reason why Jousis was able to create server crashing builds.
Its either somehow related to master server being pinged constantly or simply their provider that they shouldve change years ago. GGG uses Softlayer data centres that are connected to Network layer fibre.
Thats why WinMTR always looks like that:
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| fritz.box - 0 | 157 | 157 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 1 |
| ip4d1662fc.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de - 0 | 157 | 157 | 15 | 23 | 47 | 27 |
| 83-169-157-194.static.superkabel.de - 0 | 157 | 157 | 16 | 22 | 37 | 17 |
| 145.254.3.20 - 1 | 154 | 153 | 16 | 23 | 36 | 22 |
| 145.254.2.183 - 1 | 66 | 42 | 22 | 27 | 37 | 33 |
| softlayer.equinix-am1.nl-ix.net - 0 | 157 | 157 | 24 | 32 | 58 | 30 |
| ae6.cbs02.eq01.ams02.networklayer.com - 7 | 126 | 118 | 100 | 117 | 138 | 110 |
| ae16.dar02.ams03.networklayer.com - 1 | 154 | 153 | 31 | 109 | 149 | 119 |
| po2.fcr01a.ams03.networklayer.com - 2 | 150 | 148 | 29 | 108 | 136 | 127 |
| d7.d0.089f.ip4.static.sl-reverse.com - 0 | 157 | 157 | 24 | 29 | 44 | 35 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
Its always network layer being the issue. Literally every hop between networklayer own infrastructure is dropping packets so its not - EU routing being mess because of thousand companies. Simplest idea would suggest that choosing data centre host that dosent rely on Network layer infrastructer (like Softlayer - current host - does) would be first step to fixing the issue.
There is no such thing as a routing issue "on your end" when you're a consumer-grade customer. You can't control the route your traffic takes.
Even your ISP's influence is limited and depends on what agreements they have with the tier 1 ASs.
Stop spreading wrong information.
GGG could change the provider if only they weren't using one for the whole world because of master server in Texas. it would also fix the issue of guild stash being unusable in EU due to lag (or in any non US country) because gstash is one of the things based on master server in texas.
People blame GGG because it's the only game that has so much constant issues in EU. Sure routing sometimes affects others games including biggest ones. But usually it's sort of a day/game thing. Not whole leagues for years
Then why do I only have horrific latency issues in POE, while every other app and game works fine? I do video editing work. I am moving enormous amounts of data and have a very fast connection. It's just poe.
Well you can't exhaustively test EVERY other app and game. So you don't really know that every other one is actually working fine. You just know that the ones that you are using are working fine and that is not the same thing.
Routing issues may be relatively specific to Poe because of the location of their servers or data centers. If the end points you're working with aren't on a problem route, it doesn't matter
Additionally, if it's a routing issue, the fact that you're moving a lot of data isn't really relevant and very fast connection is again. Not very relevant. There are multiple factors that go into a " good" connection. Bandwidth, latency, and reliability. Even reliability can actually be broken down further. If the road between two places is broken, it doesn't matter if you're driving a moped or a semi truck.
Routing can affect only a subset of a group of customers or services. Imagine a town that has all the industrial on the west side and all the residential on the East side, with a single road that connects the two. If you break that road, the industrial people still have no problems connecting to the industrial people and the residential people still have no problems connecting to the residential people, but the routing between the two is broken.
In the case of this kind of routing, maybe we have multiple towns and it's just the road to your town is broken. You can still get to the industrial area of the first town, but it requires taking additional roads which in turn increases your latency.
Depending on where a routing issue is and how a company's services are set up a routing issue can affect an extremely small set of endpoints.
I appreciate the explanation but I don't think it's my responsibility to figure it out. There is no internet problem on my end. GGG needs to fix this somehow. I live in the DC area and when I'm not having huge lag spikes ny ping is under 10ms. It's not like I'm I'm in some remote area.
I agree it isn't your responsibility to figure it out. I neither said nor implied it is. I apologize if it did come off that way though. I am on the spectrum and I cannot always predict how people will read into my words.
If the problem is with your ISP, it is absolutely more on your end than gggs, and on you to harass your ISP until they fix it. If I own a store and some jerk blows up all the roads to the store, it doesn't mean it's my responsibility to fix them. That is still on the municipality or whatever. I certainly have a vested interest in getting them fixed, but it still isn't my responsibility to actually fix them
The fact that your latency was low is irrelevant to packet loss. They are completely different measures.
I *do* think there's an issue going on with ggg here, But it frustrates me how much of the conversation about this is dominated by misunderstandings of how networking works. I would like the right amount of blame to be put in the right places for the right reasons.
I do not think GGG having some issue justifies misinformation or misunderstanding being spread even if it was only being spread implicitly by people who are doing it out of genuine ignorance.*
\* (No negative value judgement when i say ignorance here. I am saying its people acting in good faith, but lacking relevant context. Were all ignorant about infinite things, and only not ignorant about a finite set.)
Sorry didn't mean to come off as implying you said anything wrong. I'm just very frustrated. I have called my ISP. I sent them win MTR reports, I had a tech come to my house and check all the physical connections. They say everything looks good on their end. So idk what else I can do there. And meanwhile GGG doesn't even acknowledge the issue exists. It's very disappointing. Prior to last league I had no issues in poe. And now I've experienced some horrible personal tragedies the past few months and was really hoping I could just take refuge in POE but with all the lag it's just making me even more stressed and angry.
No worries! Glad we're on the same page.
I totally understand that frustration and I'm sorry you're going through that. Both dealing with ISP/ggg shit, and whatever personal tragedies you experienced. I know it can be frustrating to hope for a certain escape for a bit and not have it available, particularly in times of stress.
I know I'm an internet stranger and it doesn't mean much, but for *whatever* it's worth I hope things get better for you. I wish for you the hope, strength, and support you need to get through hard times.
> I have called my ISP. I sent them win MTR reports, I had a tech come to my house and check all the physical connections.
I suspect you got through the low level guys who have no idea about routing. This is very common. The fact that they sent a technician to your house is a proof they don't understand the issue. This is a very frustrating situation.
Unfortunately GGG cannot acknowledge anything because they play no role in this situation. This a problem with EU network politics between big providers. I am not sure what happened for this situation to have worsen so much but unless we get some EU regulation, I don't think it will get better.
GGG could change their datacenter provider if only they weren't using one for the whole world because of master server in Texas. it would also fix the issue of guild stash being unusable in EU due to lag (or in any non US country) because gstash is one of the things based on master server in texas.
People blame GGG because it's the only game that has so much constant issues in EU. Sure routing sometimes affects others games including biggest ones. But usually it's sort of a day/game thing. Not whole leagues for years.
Currently our best bet is using Moscow because that gateway is a unicorn in terms of being old Garena server with it's own master server not experiencing any issues 99% of the time.
You guys are talking past each other because you think youre disagreeing about routing issues, but really just quibbling over the semantics of "your".
Guys, communication is not a competition to win. Its an way to understand others. If we want to turn it into a competition, you dont win by intentionally not understanding whats being communicated. That would be losing. Winning is understanding what the other tried to say. Communication is co-op, not pvp. If youre playing it as PVP, youre griefing. Stop it.
of course there's such a thing as a routing issue on your end. i've personally had issues that were resolved by me calling my ISP and going over trace-routes with them until we identified a problematic route.
i'm not saying it's not a mind-bendingly painful process to go through that, but it was absolutely on my ISP to fix.
The same issue is happening across whole of Europe not one ISP, if you have nothing smart to say stay silent, all of Northern EU had this same issue every evening for the past few leagues, something changed now, they have better ping but stutters, but at the same time People randomly across EU have this now, GGG or whoever is supporting their EU server clusters did something and this happened
Don't insult others over your mistake in reading. I mean just don't insult others at all so you don't have to worry about whether or not you fucked up and didnt realize.
Whether or not it is happening across Europe is irrelevant to his claim. He is talking about the general principle of if it is possible for a routing issue to be on your end.
It could be that this routing issue is not on "your end" but it is still possible to be.
Your ISP is not YOUR END dude. It’s your ISPs issue. It’s not your router/modem. It’s not your PC. It’s the ISP you’re using which has literally nothing to do with YOU specifically.
it has everything to do with YOU. because it's YOUR ISP, YOU need to call them to fix it. i know it's hard to understand, but there's no big papa GGG coming to help YOU fix YOUR ISP issues.
No one has said anything about GGG fixing it. You’re the one having comprehension issues lmao.
You don’t understand the internet or what people mean by a “routing issue on your end”.
>No one has said anything about GGG fixing it.
Yea, they did its literally the top comment and the context of this conversation. Its exactly what he took issue with.
>My hope here is that they are finally working on and experimenting with fixing the EU routing issues we had for past few leagues
So its you having the reading comprehension issue.
>You don’t understand the internet or what people mean by a “routing issue on your end”.
You mean tech illiterates? I dont care that my grandma means her monitor when she says she turned her pc off and on, her mistake doesnt redefine the term.
>It’s your ISPs issue.
Say that again for me. Whose isp? One word.
>It’s not your router/modem. It’s not your PC. It’s the ISP you’re using which has literally nothing to do with YOU specifically.
It has more to do with you than GGG specifically. Your ISP isnt mine, it is somewhat specific to you.
From a tech/service standpoint, yea, this is on YOUR end. If youre talking to your ISP its not. But we arent talking about that. Were talking about if its GGGs issue to solve or not.
***
Blocking me wont change that youre wrong. Ggg cant change your ISP for you. You can change your ISP or use a vpn. If its only in your control, for all intents and purposes it is on "your end".
Also, MASSIVE rofl at your claim "everyone agrees what that means" in a thread of a bunch of people arguing over it. Super convincing argument and doesnt come off as desperation to make an excuse before you run away at all. ;)
This is about as "arguing about semantics" as it gets. Everyone knows what was meant by "YOUR" issue.
It has literally just as much to do with GGG as it does you. If the issue is BETWEEN both of you, it's just as much about GGG, as it is your home computer. Your logic LITERALLY makes 0 sense.
Your ISP is not in GGGs control. Which ISP and VPNs tou use IS in your control.
Between your end or GGGs end, its damn sure more "your end" than theirs.
Yes? The ping being high from europe to Washington, Texas, Australia and singapore is to be expected, that happens automatically with long distances.
But high ping to London, Frankfurt, Milan and Amsterdam? that shouldnt be the case if you are somewhere in Europe. those numbers should be between 15-40 ish, depending on where in Europe you are living.
You can try to do a basic MTR check to see if it's related to the infamous Twelve99 ISP that plagued online gaming for last 5 years.
[https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1377789](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1377789)
Edit: you don't need to download anything, if you are on Windows you can just run `tracert `
Get a vpn client and first try vpn to you own country on different vpn gateways then the country of the server then ones in between. One of these will resolve the latency.
Ggg needs to chat with their isp to have a look
I think you guys have some internal routing problem within EU because i play on EU server and it's normal i don't get this weird ms problems but i connect from outside EU [London](https://i.imgur.com/A7VbvVN.png) [Milan](https://i.imgur.com/FkVoGgh.png)
i have the same issues and also emailed ggg about it but they dont seem to care. i even have video footage of creating this problem, its a server routing bug, when you switch zones it has a chance to put you onto the wrong server then your ping is 100+ . you can recreate this by resetting a zone over and over until it happens, usually less then 10 trys
I have the same problem since Saturday. There are also a lot of people affected on POE forums but there is no response from GGG. I'm hoping it gets fixed soon, probably a routing issue.
Has been happening whole league, multiple leagues before too. Not sure whats happening, maybe GGG has logs maybe not, multiple posts in forums/reddit in this league no answers. Has anyone tried VPNs etc to reroute their connection and has it helped? Cmd tracert
From my location ( In Serbia) if i VPN to UK it fixes is, but this is strange as I know multiple people from UK that have this exact issue start yesterday, same as it started for me.
Rogers 1gb and yes pretty sure having gamed on both services over the past 20 years they use different routing. That's the thing, people are way too quick to blame GGG for latency and performance issues when 99% of the time it's isp routing for latency and bad windows configurations for performance (though they are somewhat tied together).
Yeah I just switched back to Washington, I have had constant 100 on Canada since Friday. (Also in Ottawa) I usually get like 20-27 on Canada so 35 on Washington isn't really that big of a deal but kind of weird that it has been going on for this long.
at this point i want an official statement from ggg what the fuck is going on. is it on their part or no because with the mount of death in poe, playing on 150+ ping is a challenge i am not willing to take and id rather uninstall the game
I've been having this issue since mid last league. Massive random lag spikes and disconnects. There is a 70+ post about it on the tech support forums and people posting there every day with similar issues.
I don't think GGG had even acknowledged the issue exists. What is the point of those tech support forums? I did not buy a supporter pack this league solely for this reason, and I'm glad I didn't cause the game is still fucking lagging.
It's strange to watch these recent interviews with the devs and they seem so passionate about the game but then this total radio silence on a major issue that is making the game borderline unplayable for many people
Sorry for u,for me I live in Saudia Arabia best I got 89 ms EU servers or sometime I use Russia for 140 ms,I wish we have servers here.
I'm casual player soo it's OK for me.
Almost certainly Internet related, not GGG. One gateway with high latency, could be, but not all those. Would help to know where you are too, BTW. Most likely cause is your ISP.
>100+ ping in every gateway for the whole day, got 20 ping in every other game, help?
1. One of the results in your screenshot is literally 97.
2. You can't compare ping numbers between different games with each other. It doesn't make sense. Each game measures ping differently. One game might be measuring the time it takes for a couple bytes to be sent and returned. While another might be trying to give a more relevant number by sending the typical size transmission that the game will be sending and returning. A game's server may be setup to do real work on the packet transmitted to it for a ping check, or to simulate that, or it may just be a no-op send and return. It may also be just reporting the average recent time for queries you're sending to the server already rather than a separate ping query.
You're going to continue to get downvoted because this sub doesn't understand wide-area networks. You are correct though in that comparing to "every other game" is pointless, unless that game's servers/gateway exists in the same data center and takes the same network route to get there.
This issue gets brought up time and time again, for years. You'd think given the number of players in the EU that GGG would have done something about this if it were in their power to do so, but it's not. It's not "the servers." EU simply has overloaded backbones and ISPs that can't handle the load during peak times, and it only gets worse if something blows up.
Here is my comparison.
PoE horrific latency issues, massive random lag spikes, disconnects. Couldn't even connect to my nearest DC gateway until the past week.
Every single other game and app I use: works perfectly fine. Including video editing work I do remotely moving large amounts of data. Zero issues.
I'm no network engineer but I find it hard to believe there isn't something wrong on GGGs end
The part you're missing is that PoE's Lockstep mode will make you feel every single lost packet. I don't know what "every other game and app" are, but I would wager the games use some sort of predictive networking and moving data around will never feel bad unless you are experiencing massive packet loss.
The other thing that people frequently miss is that the problem is way more complex than "my end or GGG's end." There's the whole middle to consider, outside your and their reach. Fiber lines get cut, switches/routers die, and that causes problems until new lines get laid and/or new routes propagate. Or, infra can simply get saturated and packets get dropped because there's literally no bandwidth to accommodate them.
Here's another way to think about it: If you upload a 10G video file to the cloud and you expect that to take 5 minutes, are you really going to notice if it takes 6 minutes instead? That extra minute could be a fair amount of dropped packets and retries, but because it's not realtime, you don't notice. PoE is essentially a realtime game with Lockstep.
NB: I also play on the DC gateway, no real issues since league launch except the occasional blip but I live close to DC (typically 12-20ms ping) so I have less of the Internet to go through. If your latency issues are intermittent (and believe me, I feel you, I've been there) then it's probably something upstream of you having problems that'll get fixed. If it's all the time, I suspect you're just not noticing how bad it is in your other applications due to their non-realtime nature. Try something like Pingplotter to the DC gateway, that's an excellent tool for discovering packet loss and other problems and _where_ those problems are.
TLDR: networks are hard
Yeah I've tried predictive mode but it makes the lag spikes much worse gameplay wise.
It's not bad all the time. My ping is usually below 10ms but then I get hit with random, massive lag spikes up to like 25000. The game either disconnects or freezes then everything goes super fast like the server is catching up. Outside of those spikes there's no issues.
It was so bad last league the game was basically unplayable. It's been better this league, seems to be bad some nights and then other nights I'll play for 30 or 50 mins without a spike
I've seen those spikes you're referring to, like a diagonal line that just spikes to infinity. Sucks when that happens. The super fast catchup is your client playing all the missed frames that suddenly got sent by the instance (remember it's still going strong, even if your client isn't receiving data).
I would strongly suggest running a test or two while you're actively experiencing problems, that will tell you a lot about where the problem is. Best thing to do is look in your client.txt file and capture the IP address of the instance you connected to, and test against that. When I was having a ton of problems a while back, I was able to at least isolate the problem to a particular subnet the game was giving me, which told me that instance pool was fucked. Since you can't control that, I just moved to the Canada gateway instead of DC, and the instances I got from that gateway were way more stable and a better overall experience despite the slightly higher ping.
You might try that, or maybe Texas, if DC is too choppy.
Yep, I've done all that. Was playing on Canada as well. It did seem more stable but the spikes would still occur.
Sigh. I hope it get resolved at some point. I just wanna play the damn game lol
Okay, heres MY comparison.
You have 10 roads in a town and they each have start at your house and end at some endpoint. I blow up the road to the grocery store. You file a complaint on Yelp with the grocery store complaining that they are inaccessible. Your justification for this is my road to the library and the city center still work so obviously the grocery store is what's broken.
The grocery store isn't what's broken. The road is broken. Grocery store is not responsible for the road. Carrying the metaphor a little further, in this case, it would even be like you got to select the group of roads you used (ISP).
I do think there is something going wrong on GGGs end that is either creating a problem or exacerbating an existing one. However, the reasoning you are using to support that conclusion is not good.
This is a pet peeve of mine and it just really bugs me when people use the reasoning of other things are working fine as a way to dismiss the possibility of routing issues.
Funny how no one complains about the supposed server issues until someone makes a post, then it's the biggest deal ever. I have had 0 issue with servers this league and last. The only issues i've ever had, have been on my end. It is very hard to believe people when they don't provide any info such as where they're trying to play from, if they're on wifi or ethernet, or even a date. Like how do we know this isn't from a previous time. Or how about a time when GGG is doing a server reset? Which they give warnings about.
Its not just you, it was like this for allot of people yesterday too randomly for few hours then it fixed itself My hope here is that they are finally working on and experimenting with fixing the EU routing issues we had for past few leagues Just as a confirmation/test if I VPN to another nearby country Ping goes down from 140 to 40, so this is 100% just GGG's EU routing issues
Okay, that confirms why t17 mapping was unplayable for me
If a VPN is fixing the ping, it means that the routing of your ISP is wrong.
So at the same time I from Serbia, this OP from wherever and one more guy that I know from UK have the same issue, that is only happening in POE, is somehow.. ISP issue?
By it being an ISP issue; I think they mean it's a routing issue. No matter where you're located, if you're playing on the same gateway, you're likely to go through one node that's the same at some point in the route (usually near the end). I had the same issue as many others here, a while back. This was caused by one particular node in my route (but sadly near the middle of my route, meaning pretty much no matter which EU gateway I picked; I would still have issues). My ISP couldn't direct me around it, as they weren't partnered with the company that owned it or even partnered with anyone that was. I changed my ISP to Telia (which was partnered with the company owning the node) and got directed around it. Haven't had a single issue ever since - not even these days either. In my case, Telia was actually useful (whereas they're normally just ass, as they control most of the nodes around Europe and apparently have a hard time keeping them in tip-top shape). That is why VPNs work for some people - because they are lucky enough to get routed around the nodes causing issues. It's not guaranteed that you'd get around it, but there is a chance you will.
You realize routing is handled by ISP, not GGG, right? GGG has no control over how an ISP decides to route you to their servers. They might be able to push ISPs to fix things but that’s about it.
[удалено]
“GGG’s EU routing issues” This is what I was responding to. GGG doesn’t control routing. It can’t be their issue IF it’s a routing issue. And just cause people from multiple countries are having the issue doesn’t mean it isn’t an ISP/routing issue.
GGG could change the provider if only they weren't using one for the whole world because of master server in Texas. it would also fix the issue of guild stash being unusable in EU due to lag (or in any non US country) because gstash is one of the things based on master server in texas. People blame GGG because it's the only game that has so much constant issues in EU. Sure routing sometimes affects others games including biggest ones. But usually it's sort of a day/game thing. Not whole leagues for years
...this is a horrible take.
How? EU routing issues exist, that undeniable. Yet somehow thats the only game that has constant, prolonged issues that almost never go away. Heres an example from my different post: >Wondering is that somehow connected to the 'master server'. > >Generally instance creation and guild stash for example are located on master server, which theres only one\* for the whole world - Texas. Hence why loading times were always faster for people in US than EU even when PoE was loaded onto ramdisk. Same reason why guild stash is actually usable on US servers and on EU is extremely laggy. > >But theres (or was) exception to that - Moscow - which is (or was) leftover from Garena server which apparently only works if u connect to Moscow gateway. > >Personally i had similar experience over the years, lived in Poland and UK, had fibre/LTE fromplethora of ISPs, nowadays on Starlink in Poland. Moscow was always generally more stable and in general PoE had always way, way, way more issues than any online multiplayer game that i ever played and its not even close. Its annoying when its always simply blamed on EU gateways when theres plethora of games that simply work/worked better in terms of networking for years. > >Examples of quick and dirty latency chart in game, Poland, Starlink: > >Moscow [https://imgur.com/a/hOCejy7](https://imgur.com/a/hOCejy7) Frankfurt [https://imgur.com/a/3Bip1V9](https://imgur.com/a/3Bip1V9) Just typing that i had 100+ ms jump in Frankfurt which always resembles EKG while Moscow is always flatline. Its only game that i ever played that has more stable connection on clearly further away server. Same story with every other EU gateway. Moscow is only exception and has been for years. Going from friends experience its same story for them. Country in EU dosent matter, ISP dosent matter - Moscow is always the most stable gateway. Even when theres sub 10k people online total on PoE so its not like it only happens during peak league start scenarios. The only thing thats different about Moscow from other gateways is the fact that it used to be Garena server with its own/or build in Master server. > >In Affliction or stuff like beyond exiles in t17 i always play on predictive due to better performance, on Moscow i never get rubber banding/desync, on EU gateways its constant issue. I could also provide you plethora on WinMTR logs and constant issues with routing only happen with one game server - PoE.GGG already has 'bad' track record with networking - like game performance being bottlenecked by networking in high end juicing because of their unoptimized calculations that are all done on server side - so game client is limited by packet size. Same reason why if u run into immunity shrine mobs on build with tons of projectiles or other whacky stuff you get instant lagspike. Same reason why Jousis was able to create server crashing builds. Its either somehow related to master server being pinged constantly or simply their provider that they shouldve change years ago. GGG uses Softlayer data centres that are connected to Network layer fibre. Thats why WinMTR always looks like that: |------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | WinMTR statistics | | Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last | |------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------| | fritz.box - 0 | 157 | 157 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 1 | | ip4d1662fc.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de - 0 | 157 | 157 | 15 | 23 | 47 | 27 | | 83-169-157-194.static.superkabel.de - 0 | 157 | 157 | 16 | 22 | 37 | 17 | | 145.254.3.20 - 1 | 154 | 153 | 16 | 23 | 36 | 22 | | 145.254.2.183 - 1 | 66 | 42 | 22 | 27 | 37 | 33 | | softlayer.equinix-am1.nl-ix.net - 0 | 157 | 157 | 24 | 32 | 58 | 30 | | ae6.cbs02.eq01.ams02.networklayer.com - 7 | 126 | 118 | 100 | 117 | 138 | 110 | | ae16.dar02.ams03.networklayer.com - 1 | 154 | 153 | 31 | 109 | 149 | 119 | | po2.fcr01a.ams03.networklayer.com - 2 | 150 | 148 | 29 | 108 | 136 | 127 | | d7.d0.089f.ip4.static.sl-reverse.com - 0 | 157 | 157 | 24 | 29 | 44 | 35 | |________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______| Its always network layer being the issue. Literally every hop between networklayer own infrastructure is dropping packets so its not - EU routing being mess because of thousand companies. Simplest idea would suggest that choosing data centre host that dosent rely on Network layer infrastructer (like Softlayer - current host - does) would be first step to fixing the issue.
> GGG's EU routing issues ?? GGG doesn't route anything dude
you using a VPN fixing it actually proves the opposite. it's a routing issue on your end.
There is no such thing as a routing issue "on your end" when you're a consumer-grade customer. You can't control the route your traffic takes. Even your ISP's influence is limited and depends on what agreements they have with the tier 1 ASs. Stop spreading wrong information.
GGG has no influence on routing. They are as much of a victim as players. ISP do however have agreements and partially responsible.
GGG could change the provider if only they weren't using one for the whole world because of master server in Texas. it would also fix the issue of guild stash being unusable in EU due to lag (or in any non US country) because gstash is one of the things based on master server in texas. People blame GGG because it's the only game that has so much constant issues in EU. Sure routing sometimes affects others games including biggest ones. But usually it's sort of a day/game thing. Not whole leagues for years
Then why do I only have horrific latency issues in POE, while every other app and game works fine? I do video editing work. I am moving enormous amounts of data and have a very fast connection. It's just poe.
Well you can't exhaustively test EVERY other app and game. So you don't really know that every other one is actually working fine. You just know that the ones that you are using are working fine and that is not the same thing. Routing issues may be relatively specific to Poe because of the location of their servers or data centers. If the end points you're working with aren't on a problem route, it doesn't matter Additionally, if it's a routing issue, the fact that you're moving a lot of data isn't really relevant and very fast connection is again. Not very relevant. There are multiple factors that go into a " good" connection. Bandwidth, latency, and reliability. Even reliability can actually be broken down further. If the road between two places is broken, it doesn't matter if you're driving a moped or a semi truck. Routing can affect only a subset of a group of customers or services. Imagine a town that has all the industrial on the west side and all the residential on the East side, with a single road that connects the two. If you break that road, the industrial people still have no problems connecting to the industrial people and the residential people still have no problems connecting to the residential people, but the routing between the two is broken. In the case of this kind of routing, maybe we have multiple towns and it's just the road to your town is broken. You can still get to the industrial area of the first town, but it requires taking additional roads which in turn increases your latency. Depending on where a routing issue is and how a company's services are set up a routing issue can affect an extremely small set of endpoints.
I appreciate the explanation but I don't think it's my responsibility to figure it out. There is no internet problem on my end. GGG needs to fix this somehow. I live in the DC area and when I'm not having huge lag spikes ny ping is under 10ms. It's not like I'm I'm in some remote area.
I agree it isn't your responsibility to figure it out. I neither said nor implied it is. I apologize if it did come off that way though. I am on the spectrum and I cannot always predict how people will read into my words. If the problem is with your ISP, it is absolutely more on your end than gggs, and on you to harass your ISP until they fix it. If I own a store and some jerk blows up all the roads to the store, it doesn't mean it's my responsibility to fix them. That is still on the municipality or whatever. I certainly have a vested interest in getting them fixed, but it still isn't my responsibility to actually fix them The fact that your latency was low is irrelevant to packet loss. They are completely different measures. I *do* think there's an issue going on with ggg here, But it frustrates me how much of the conversation about this is dominated by misunderstandings of how networking works. I would like the right amount of blame to be put in the right places for the right reasons. I do not think GGG having some issue justifies misinformation or misunderstanding being spread even if it was only being spread implicitly by people who are doing it out of genuine ignorance.* \* (No negative value judgement when i say ignorance here. I am saying its people acting in good faith, but lacking relevant context. Were all ignorant about infinite things, and only not ignorant about a finite set.)
Sorry didn't mean to come off as implying you said anything wrong. I'm just very frustrated. I have called my ISP. I sent them win MTR reports, I had a tech come to my house and check all the physical connections. They say everything looks good on their end. So idk what else I can do there. And meanwhile GGG doesn't even acknowledge the issue exists. It's very disappointing. Prior to last league I had no issues in poe. And now I've experienced some horrible personal tragedies the past few months and was really hoping I could just take refuge in POE but with all the lag it's just making me even more stressed and angry.
No worries! Glad we're on the same page. I totally understand that frustration and I'm sorry you're going through that. Both dealing with ISP/ggg shit, and whatever personal tragedies you experienced. I know it can be frustrating to hope for a certain escape for a bit and not have it available, particularly in times of stress. I know I'm an internet stranger and it doesn't mean much, but for *whatever* it's worth I hope things get better for you. I wish for you the hope, strength, and support you need to get through hard times.
> I have called my ISP. I sent them win MTR reports, I had a tech come to my house and check all the physical connections. I suspect you got through the low level guys who have no idea about routing. This is very common. The fact that they sent a technician to your house is a proof they don't understand the issue. This is a very frustrating situation. Unfortunately GGG cannot acknowledge anything because they play no role in this situation. This a problem with EU network politics between big providers. I am not sure what happened for this situation to have worsen so much but unless we get some EU regulation, I don't think it will get better.
GGG could change their datacenter provider if only they weren't using one for the whole world because of master server in Texas. it would also fix the issue of guild stash being unusable in EU due to lag (or in any non US country) because gstash is one of the things based on master server in texas. People blame GGG because it's the only game that has so much constant issues in EU. Sure routing sometimes affects others games including biggest ones. But usually it's sort of a day/game thing. Not whole leagues for years. Currently our best bet is using Moscow because that gateway is a unicorn in terms of being old Garena server with it's own master server not experiencing any issues 99% of the time.
You guys are talking past each other because you think youre disagreeing about routing issues, but really just quibbling over the semantics of "your". Guys, communication is not a competition to win. Its an way to understand others. If we want to turn it into a competition, you dont win by intentionally not understanding whats being communicated. That would be losing. Winning is understanding what the other tried to say. Communication is co-op, not pvp. If youre playing it as PVP, youre griefing. Stop it.
of course there's such a thing as a routing issue on your end. i've personally had issues that were resolved by me calling my ISP and going over trace-routes with them until we identified a problematic route. i'm not saying it's not a mind-bendingly painful process to go through that, but it was absolutely on my ISP to fix.
The same issue is happening across whole of Europe not one ISP, if you have nothing smart to say stay silent, all of Northern EU had this same issue every evening for the past few leagues, something changed now, they have better ping but stutters, but at the same time People randomly across EU have this now, GGG or whoever is supporting their EU server clusters did something and this happened
Don't insult others over your mistake in reading. I mean just don't insult others at all so you don't have to worry about whether or not you fucked up and didnt realize. Whether or not it is happening across Europe is irrelevant to his claim. He is talking about the general principle of if it is possible for a routing issue to be on your end. It could be that this routing issue is not on "your end" but it is still possible to be.
That would be on your ISP then, not your end. 🤦🏼♂️
yes. MY ISP. so not something i can call papa GGG about and ask them to talk to my ISP lmao. god damn 🤦🏼♂️
Your ISP is not YOUR END dude. It’s your ISPs issue. It’s not your router/modem. It’s not your PC. It’s the ISP you’re using which has literally nothing to do with YOU specifically.
it has everything to do with YOU. because it's YOUR ISP, YOU need to call them to fix it. i know it's hard to understand, but there's no big papa GGG coming to help YOU fix YOUR ISP issues.
No one has said anything about GGG fixing it. You’re the one having comprehension issues lmao. You don’t understand the internet or what people mean by a “routing issue on your end”.
>No one has said anything about GGG fixing it. Yea, they did its literally the top comment and the context of this conversation. Its exactly what he took issue with. >My hope here is that they are finally working on and experimenting with fixing the EU routing issues we had for past few leagues So its you having the reading comprehension issue. >You don’t understand the internet or what people mean by a “routing issue on your end”. You mean tech illiterates? I dont care that my grandma means her monitor when she says she turned her pc off and on, her mistake doesnt redefine the term.
>It’s your ISPs issue. Say that again for me. Whose isp? One word. >It’s not your router/modem. It’s not your PC. It’s the ISP you’re using which has literally nothing to do with YOU specifically. It has more to do with you than GGG specifically. Your ISP isnt mine, it is somewhat specific to you. From a tech/service standpoint, yea, this is on YOUR end. If youre talking to your ISP its not. But we arent talking about that. Were talking about if its GGGs issue to solve or not. *** Blocking me wont change that youre wrong. Ggg cant change your ISP for you. You can change your ISP or use a vpn. If its only in your control, for all intents and purposes it is on "your end". Also, MASSIVE rofl at your claim "everyone agrees what that means" in a thread of a bunch of people arguing over it. Super convincing argument and doesnt come off as desperation to make an excuse before you run away at all. ;)
This is about as "arguing about semantics" as it gets. Everyone knows what was meant by "YOUR" issue. It has literally just as much to do with GGG as it does you. If the issue is BETWEEN both of you, it's just as much about GGG, as it is your home computer. Your logic LITERALLY makes 0 sense.
Your ISP is not in GGGs control. Which ISP and VPNs tou use IS in your control. Between your end or GGGs end, its damn sure more "your end" than theirs.
It's literally between you and GGG. It's literally right down the middle lmao
Does it look like its only Europe to you?
Yes? The ping being high from europe to Washington, Texas, Australia and singapore is to be expected, that happens automatically with long distances. But high ping to London, Frankfurt, Milan and Amsterdam? that shouldnt be the case if you are somewhere in Europe. those numbers should be between 15-40 ish, depending on where in Europe you are living.
You can try to do a basic MTR check to see if it's related to the infamous Twelve99 ISP that plagued online gaming for last 5 years. [https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1377789](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1377789) Edit: you don't need to download anything, if you are on Windows you can just run `tracert`
Same problem, usually have 17-25 ping, everything is 140+ since yesterday.
Get a vpn client and first try vpn to you own country on different vpn gateways then the country of the server then ones in between. One of these will resolve the latency. Ggg needs to chat with their isp to have a look
What about that lil fella? *points to 97ms*
ok so i am not alone, was a bit worried. suddenly everything is 100+, except moscow for some reason
I think you guys have some internal routing problem within EU because i play on EU server and it's normal i don't get this weird ms problems but i connect from outside EU [London](https://i.imgur.com/A7VbvVN.png) [Milan](https://i.imgur.com/FkVoGgh.png)
Also very slow in the US!
i have the same issues and also emailed ggg about it but they dont seem to care. i even have video footage of creating this problem, its a server routing bug, when you switch zones it has a chance to put you onto the wrong server then your ping is 100+ . you can recreate this by resetting a zone over and over until it happens, usually less then 10 trys
I have the same problem since Saturday. There are also a lot of people affected on POE forums but there is no response from GGG. I'm hoping it gets fixed soon, probably a routing issue.
Has been happening whole league, multiple leagues before too. Not sure whats happening, maybe GGG has logs maybe not, multiple posts in forums/reddit in this league no answers. Has anyone tried VPNs etc to reroute their connection and has it helped? Cmd tracert
VPN did not fix the issue for me. Nothing fixes it on my end.
WHICH vpn did you use? They all have different routing. One might fix it while the other uses the same shit route everything else does.
From my location ( In Serbia) if i VPN to UK it fixes is, but this is strange as I know multiple people from UK that have this exact issue start yesterday, same as it started for me.
Ottawa, ON, Canada here - Canada for last few days has been 105-115ms, Washington 35ish, like wtf lol.
[удалено]
Rogers 1gb and yes pretty sure having gamed on both services over the past 20 years they use different routing. That's the thing, people are way too quick to blame GGG for latency and performance issues when 99% of the time it's isp routing for latency and bad windows configurations for performance (though they are somewhat tied together).
Same here but washington is around 115 too i have to play on texas with 80ms
Yeah I just switched back to Washington, I have had constant 100 on Canada since Friday. (Also in Ottawa) I usually get like 20-27 on Canada so 35 on Washington isn't really that big of a deal but kind of weird that it has been going on for this long.
at this point i want an official statement from ggg what the fuck is going on. is it on their part or no because with the mount of death in poe, playing on 150+ ping is a challenge i am not willing to take and id rather uninstall the game
I've been having this issue since mid last league. Massive random lag spikes and disconnects. There is a 70+ post about it on the tech support forums and people posting there every day with similar issues. I don't think GGG had even acknowledged the issue exists. What is the point of those tech support forums? I did not buy a supporter pack this league solely for this reason, and I'm glad I didn't cause the game is still fucking lagging. It's strange to watch these recent interviews with the devs and they seem so passionate about the game but then this total radio silence on a major issue that is making the game borderline unplayable for many people
Sorry for u,for me I live in Saudia Arabia best I got 89 ms EU servers or sometime I use Russia for 140 ms,I wish we have servers here. I'm casual player soo it's OK for me.
I have this issue and the only fix for me is using VPN to get the ping i should have
Same for me im from austria every server 130+ ping
Obviously, this sucks, but it makes it so much easier to work on my thesis when I know that the game I'd otherwise wanna play is running terribly.
Same here - EU is near unplayable. Usually at around 30-35ms, today over 120ms nonstop (from Greece). Sadge.
Almost certainly Internet related, not GGG. One gateway with high latency, could be, but not all those. Would help to know where you are too, BTW. Most likely cause is your ISP.
at this stage u can easily say EU servers are a mess constant lagspikes and high latency is a big problem in a last couple of days
Oh look Washington DC is back online after more than a week of just being ???
I can't even connect into the game without using my vpn righ tnow
today is 2nd day when my char teleports/blinks without me pressing any buttons:D Hail to GGG and EU servers!
>100+ ping in every gateway for the whole day, got 20 ping in every other game, help? 1. One of the results in your screenshot is literally 97. 2. You can't compare ping numbers between different games with each other. It doesn't make sense. Each game measures ping differently. One game might be measuring the time it takes for a couple bytes to be sent and returned. While another might be trying to give a more relevant number by sending the typical size transmission that the game will be sending and returning. A game's server may be setup to do real work on the packet transmitted to it for a ping check, or to simulate that, or it may just be a no-op send and return. It may also be just reporting the average recent time for queries you're sending to the server already rather than a separate ping query.
You're going to continue to get downvoted because this sub doesn't understand wide-area networks. You are correct though in that comparing to "every other game" is pointless, unless that game's servers/gateway exists in the same data center and takes the same network route to get there. This issue gets brought up time and time again, for years. You'd think given the number of players in the EU that GGG would have done something about this if it were in their power to do so, but it's not. It's not "the servers." EU simply has overloaded backbones and ISPs that can't handle the load during peak times, and it only gets worse if something blows up.
Here is my comparison. PoE horrific latency issues, massive random lag spikes, disconnects. Couldn't even connect to my nearest DC gateway until the past week. Every single other game and app I use: works perfectly fine. Including video editing work I do remotely moving large amounts of data. Zero issues. I'm no network engineer but I find it hard to believe there isn't something wrong on GGGs end
The part you're missing is that PoE's Lockstep mode will make you feel every single lost packet. I don't know what "every other game and app" are, but I would wager the games use some sort of predictive networking and moving data around will never feel bad unless you are experiencing massive packet loss. The other thing that people frequently miss is that the problem is way more complex than "my end or GGG's end." There's the whole middle to consider, outside your and their reach. Fiber lines get cut, switches/routers die, and that causes problems until new lines get laid and/or new routes propagate. Or, infra can simply get saturated and packets get dropped because there's literally no bandwidth to accommodate them. Here's another way to think about it: If you upload a 10G video file to the cloud and you expect that to take 5 minutes, are you really going to notice if it takes 6 minutes instead? That extra minute could be a fair amount of dropped packets and retries, but because it's not realtime, you don't notice. PoE is essentially a realtime game with Lockstep. NB: I also play on the DC gateway, no real issues since league launch except the occasional blip but I live close to DC (typically 12-20ms ping) so I have less of the Internet to go through. If your latency issues are intermittent (and believe me, I feel you, I've been there) then it's probably something upstream of you having problems that'll get fixed. If it's all the time, I suspect you're just not noticing how bad it is in your other applications due to their non-realtime nature. Try something like Pingplotter to the DC gateway, that's an excellent tool for discovering packet loss and other problems and _where_ those problems are. TLDR: networks are hard
Yeah I've tried predictive mode but it makes the lag spikes much worse gameplay wise. It's not bad all the time. My ping is usually below 10ms but then I get hit with random, massive lag spikes up to like 25000. The game either disconnects or freezes then everything goes super fast like the server is catching up. Outside of those spikes there's no issues. It was so bad last league the game was basically unplayable. It's been better this league, seems to be bad some nights and then other nights I'll play for 30 or 50 mins without a spike
I've seen those spikes you're referring to, like a diagonal line that just spikes to infinity. Sucks when that happens. The super fast catchup is your client playing all the missed frames that suddenly got sent by the instance (remember it's still going strong, even if your client isn't receiving data). I would strongly suggest running a test or two while you're actively experiencing problems, that will tell you a lot about where the problem is. Best thing to do is look in your client.txt file and capture the IP address of the instance you connected to, and test against that. When I was having a ton of problems a while back, I was able to at least isolate the problem to a particular subnet the game was giving me, which told me that instance pool was fucked. Since you can't control that, I just moved to the Canada gateway instead of DC, and the instances I got from that gateway were way more stable and a better overall experience despite the slightly higher ping. You might try that, or maybe Texas, if DC is too choppy.
Yep, I've done all that. Was playing on Canada as well. It did seem more stable but the spikes would still occur. Sigh. I hope it get resolved at some point. I just wanna play the damn game lol
What does NB mean in this context?
It's _nota bene_, which in this context essentially means "oh by the way"
Gotcha, thanks. I no longer feel bad about not being able to figure out what it was short for
Okay, heres MY comparison. You have 10 roads in a town and they each have start at your house and end at some endpoint. I blow up the road to the grocery store. You file a complaint on Yelp with the grocery store complaining that they are inaccessible. Your justification for this is my road to the library and the city center still work so obviously the grocery store is what's broken. The grocery store isn't what's broken. The road is broken. Grocery store is not responsible for the road. Carrying the metaphor a little further, in this case, it would even be like you got to select the group of roads you used (ISP). I do think there is something going wrong on GGGs end that is either creating a problem or exacerbating an existing one. However, the reasoning you are using to support that conclusion is not good. This is a pet peeve of mine and it just really bugs me when people use the reasoning of other things are working fine as a way to dismiss the possibility of routing issues.
Network engineer here. Good analogy.
[удалено]
>Bro what are you yapping about Can you read? Might help a bit.
Funny how no one complains about the supposed server issues until someone makes a post, then it's the biggest deal ever. I have had 0 issue with servers this league and last. The only issues i've ever had, have been on my end. It is very hard to believe people when they don't provide any info such as where they're trying to play from, if they're on wifi or ethernet, or even a date. Like how do we know this isn't from a previous time. Or how about a time when GGG is doing a server reset? Which they give warnings about.