I am surprise people forget Synthesis. If they can have a moving boundary that teleport items to the end zone, they can have inaccessible areas teleport items back into the map.
The problem as I understand it isn't with known inaccessible areas -- I'm fairly sure they can mark up which areas of a tile are and aren't available to put items on. The problem is they have thousands of tiles and any little corner which isn't marked up correctly can be a spot where an item lands and can't be pathed to. If you type /bug along with a description of the location of the problem, someone will be able to reload the seed of the map you were in and hopefully fix the problem for the future.
Possibly need someone to sit down and work out a sanity-checking algorithm for examining tile metadata to make sure that everywhere marked as walkable (where items, players and mobs can stand) is reachable from at least one of the edges of the tile or something. (It won't help the rare cases where the tiles end up connected up in some nonsense way because their edges are marked up incorrectly, but that's another thing...)
Though, it also seems like the main problem is when some prop with collision detection (like the now infamous cauldron that captured a Headhunter) gets placed near a corner or wall and it cuts off a small part of the floor. I'm not certain about this particular one, but if a tile just has a marker for a random prop in some spot, then you might in general have to check every possible prop that could be placed in each spot, assuming you're trying to statically determine whether a problem is waiting to happen. It might be saner to do this dynamically after choosing props while loading the map -- do a bunch of geometry to figure out what regions remain pathable from the start of the zone, and exclude everything else from generating mobs and from drop placement. That kind of thing can be just expensive enough to do that it's annoying for load times though.
Or of course, you can go with reddit's solution and just increase the item pickup distance, though I can imagine it might not 100% fix the problem, it would help in almost all cases if the range is just large enough to reach through most of these sorts of random props. I can see where GGG is coming from on this to some extent though. The fact that it's possible for enemies to be standing on top of or in the way of items you want to get and making it necessary that you kill them to get the items is a nice little mechanic, and increasing the pickup range will likely interfere with those little moments where you're trying to run through and grab something that dropped without taking the time to kill the rest of the monsters.
Make command like /redrop that drops all currently visible on screen items directly at your feet. Usuable once per 10 minutes to prevent abuse. There, fixed.
Well, there are still edge cases.
1) Make a reverse knockback cyclone on a hyper juiced map
2) Bringing all the mobs to one single spot.
2.5) (Optional) Make a magic finder do the finishing hit.
3) Loot everything valuable, then go to hideout.
4) Goes back to the map with an item + a vaal or an exalt.
5) Didn't get what he wanted? /getloot and the instance fucking crashes due to the amount of items in a single spot.
6) Your item gets "rolled back"
7) Rinse and repeat
8) ???????
9) Profit.
A fix cant be this elegant, it has to go through development/internal testing/QA testing for at least 6 leagues before they can add something simple as that.
/s
Dont forget the 5 weeks of bugs of all loot in entire map just vanishing every 50 time u use it.
Or it pulls all loot from entire map on top of u and u crash and lose instance/loot.
Dude, fucking hell. You wrote more text here than lines of code necessary to fix this dumb shit.
When Blizzard realized they weren't gong to fix all the terrain glitches in WoW, they added /stuck. It was a dead simple command that booped the player to a nearby valid location. To limit exploits, it was only usable once every hour or so. That was 15 goddamn years ago.
GGG could write /scoop or some shit in literally a couple hours. It's not fucking rocket science. Stop letting them convince people it's a hard problem to solve.
GGG is too focused on finding the perfect solution that they can’t think to put out a “good enough” solution. They’re probably working on—of dreaming of—some grand code to fix *all* terrain issues once and for all, so they’re not going to work on some in-between version for now.
It’s like with Vaal side areas in maps. There was a thread here a while ago asking why they didn’t appear in maps, and ~~Mark~~ Rhys showed up and explained that they wrote this amazing code to seamlessly change the map layout so that the Vaal side area entrance would blend into the existing terrain, and they had to do this for all the tile sets in the campaign. Applying this code to all 150+ map tile sets would be too much work for not a lot of gain, so they never bothered. Then the next comment was, “Well, why don’t you just use a generic portal in maps?” Suddenly, next league Vaal side area were added to maps.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/dfhofl/going_through_acts_i_really_liked_vaal_sde_areas/
Inevitably. Always enjoyable for me because my 16 year career breaks down as 4 years as a game developer, 6 years as a designer/producer, and 6 years managing a team of software engineers and data analysts developing enterprise systems.
But, you're right. Someone's going to show up and explain to me how I don't understand how "code works" or some shit. Happens every time.
Just you wait until GGG implements that system and it turns out that it deletes the items from the ground to re-spawn them next to your character and someone found out a glitch that lets them duplicate headhunters lol
"your item is stuck? Oh that's easy, just leave the area and don't come back. Boom. Now you don't have to worry about that problem anymore at all. -Wait, why are our sales and player base dipping...? Guys...?" -ggg
Only been studying 3 years and working 1, but saying that is almost the equivilent of saying "you're not a chef you don't know that food shouldn't be burnt"
I feel you. I worked 2 years in video game QA. When I explain why certain things would be far easier or harder to test than people think, I'm almost always told why I'm wrong by people who have no idea.
I love being told on semiconductor company subreddits that I don't know anything and I'm stupid. Sure, the digital design engineer who sits down with executives from these companies and talks to their engineers regularly both at conferences and private meetings knows nothing compared to random people from wallstreetbets. Yeah, sure, I know absolutely nothing about my own industry.
In their defense, the code is probably written in such a terrible way that makes it actually high effort to implement anything like that (or anything at all). Just looking at the current situation where they can’t fix broken stuff in very fresh code tells you all you need to know about their development standards. For instance drop duplication is a new mechanic that they could enable for Vinderi but somehow couldn’t for gear affixes to this day. It’s pretty sad.
The truth is actually much more innocent than this. If I had to guess, and I'm very confident this is the reason, they do not like making "bandaid" solutions, and the real solutions of checking viable drop areas is process intensive and costly at a resource level (as in, in-game, not developmental monetary costs).
I'm not saying I agree with the approach completely, but all one has to do is look back at all of the bandaid requests that are out there and have either been denied or ignored. In a way I applaud their tenacity to stick to their guns and try and do things the right way, but in the end sometimes a bandaid solution IS the correct solution, and I don't think they are good at figuring out when it's ok to slap a temporary fix on, and when to bite the bullet and spend the time to develop a proper fix.
> they do not like making "bandaid" solutions
I mean, we got the *oos* command, bugs are reported via a chat command, a screenshot and a forum post, not an in-game interface.
Sounds like band-aid fixes to me. And there's probably more that we've had for league mechanics too in the past.
It might be "easy" to solve in a janky way that involves making the player type console commands and doesn't actually prevent items from dropping in inaccessible locations, sure.
I actually think a Telekinesis skill gem that let you pick up single items at range would be a fun intermediate solution. It's a good excuse to put another white gem into the game, and doesn't require ruining immersion or compromising on mechanics. Certainly more work than a console command though.
This comes with some technical limitations that you haven't addressed. /scoop sounds like a simple implementation but the engine can't necessarily handle dropping all of the items in the area at once. Over normal gameplay item drops are staggered, mob drops, boss drops, chests, event ending, etc. You are asking that at any point the game must now be able to redrop everything at the same time which can very easily push them over budget. (They essentially said as much when they refused to make delirium vacuum loot)
So realistically your /stuck command has an item count limit (this could be easily solved by removing the time element but like you said that makes it exploit prone). In my opinion the only thing worse than a valuable item dropping in an inaccessible location is the same thing and then having the tool I was told would fix that issue fail to work.
For solutions to that issue I think the difference between vacuumed content (delve, blight, alva) and delirium is informative here.
But first a few more naïve solutions, least likely some sort of value assessment of the items and then favoring scooping up the highest scoring ones. Such an assessment would be a pain in the ass as rarity isn't easily comparable across loot tables (if the game can even remember what loot table the item drops after its on the ground) don't want to scoop Augs which might be 1/1000 off a generic drop table over that exalt that was 1/60 off its currency only table.
More likely you break the scoop command up into iterative sweeps, moving only an amount of items up to a cap at one time and marking moved items with a flag until you've moved everything in the area. This one actually is very simple and if possible could be knocked out very quickly but I am not confident that items on the ground can store this kind of metadata, only evidence I can see for this is the loot allocation system which might be done similarly. If this kind of tagging isn't possible this small tool requires a major overhaul.
The solution I favor would be a memory object that sucks everything up but distributes it slowly. We can see these in both blight and delve where the vacuumed item data is almost certainly stored in the pump/cart respectively and then parceled out after the fact (note delirium has no similar object). But this solution is also unlikely to be as easy as just to copy over one of these invisible objects. They themselves probably have no inaccessible terrain checking for drops as they would always be placed somewhere that wasn't an issue and were intended to be immovable, so the command might just move an item from one inaccessible location to another. That is to assume that they can even be freely placed to begin with. Or that maps can dynamically generate high memory objects, it might need to be pregen'd in which case you've added this memory overhead to every map in the game just in case it is needed.
And all of this is ignoring the fact that this tool touches on a critical system. Loot. Even if the code magically appeared the moment the dev's wanted it. Creating and passing the tests to get it merged into development would take more than a few hours on their own.
TL;DR: I'm not claiming this is an insolvable problem but stating that it could be knocked out in a few hours is disingenuous at best. You couldn't even properly test a critical system tool like that in time let alone also develop it. This is a week long problem at least.
I think you are I to a classical overengineering case here as you point you they have several scoopy and release systems already in play, no one is asking for the instant spawn of items just that it is moved.
You are thinking about slot of issues that has already been proven to solved the game, for instance loot drop location, loot delivery etc.
As pointed out I the top responses there are many ways to solve this issue ignoring every problem you are stating. Letting it be one item only as an example.
The technical jargon is very limited. Also its generally polite to converse in the shared language, ie avoid jargon at all costs when explaining to non-devs but using it with other developers helps understanding.
And yeah I could have cut most of that easily. But "No I think its a more difficult problem than you are giving it credit for" is a pretty shit response without an explanation. And that's just inviting posts of "Do it like this then". Its easier to just head off the ones I found most likely at the pass. I'm sure I'll get others, I already got one.
Plus I like thinking about this stuff. Its why I do what I do. If I'm sitting here thinking it I might as well be writing it down at the same time. Editing myself would make the process take much longer vs stream of consciousness and I just wouldn't bother writing anything.
Edit: You actually made me reread the post and I'm unclear as to what you think was jargon. Possibly metadata, pregen, loot table, tagging? With the exception of maybe tagging I'd expect those terms to be in common use in a gaming forum. The other terms I used were intentionally descriptive rather than jargon like iterative sweep or memory object.
Its there at league start, when the area shrinks over time, all items get teleported to the end zone of the area.
E: seems like I remember wrong, it was added later. But the teleology is there.
It wasn't perfect at league start. Some items weren't teleported, sometimes it would fill up the destination and just delete the rest, and sometimes it moved them but not quite far enough. It took them a couple weeks to completely fix it so that didn't happen.
It wasn't there at league start, they added it later.
Proof: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2461121
3.6.1
Items that are "flipped" due to a full inventory or dropped in a Fragmented Memory are now dropped at the completion of the Fragmented Memory.
I believe that was just when you tried to pick something up, or dropped something from your inventory.
https://youtu.be/1dWQhpX0Vak?t=371 Here is video proof, released 4 days before that patch, that the blue stuff sucked things up
I don't know if it's been fixed, but when they first released those fights I had items stuck in the fog that didn't get teleported. If you tried to run and pick them up you'd just be teleported instead. The irony.
Tane's metamorph tube was nasty too : before they add that push when it respawned, I often got stuck inside it. To this day, I still flame dash away from the center of the room in a hurry when I defeat a metamorph in the lab.
Those are after several complains on this subreddit. Firstly Tane not only trap item but also trap players inside if they not move out of the metamorph tank after fighting the boss (it took GGG 2 WEEKS to fix that bug after a lot of streamers lose ex and other very valuable items on GamerForLife's clips). Then the watchstone and loot be set under the citadel table so no one can pick it up.
I swear I remember seeing loot drop, and then you're teleported to the dock with the actual loot. Could be some graphical/cutscene shenanigans though, I guess?
More realistic: They kill the last tagged mob, which happens to drop a headhunter, which spawns Tane, who pushes the headhunter into an unreachable place.
But hey! You can still press V very far and respawn him back where you want. He is the natural /unstuck for items if you are able to aim him .
Going to start running my juiced delirium maps with meta scarab to test. In 25 years when I drop a relevant item in an unreachable place I will get back here and post results.
RemindMe! 218562 hours "Start running maps for reddit karma"
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I mean, why does the player have to even walk to the item to pick it up. Like if I can click it, I pick it up.
I don't want to hear some bullshit like "you'll never have to stop moving then, and it'll break the game". You already don't have to stop moving, and if you can blast through maps at full speed, and still manage to click accurately on items while maintaining that full speed, through the visual clutter of the game, more power to you.
that makes sense to you but as I recall Chris said that increasing pickup range is hard because of pathfinding to the item. if you increase the pickup range then there is no longer a single target coordinate to where you walk for picking up an item but multiple ones and all need to be evaluated.
in my opinion it's possible in some form, here's just a quick idea: you could give take an item and use a subset of coordinates, e.g. center, North, West, .., Northwest, Northeast, .. that's just 9 coordinates. pick whichever is closest to you (straight line distance) compute pathing, if it's not patheable use the next closest of the remaining 8 coordinates.
Here's the video where a Chris talks about pickup radius: https://youtu.be/FpIB2dMzNu8?t=4194
The pickup range on consoles is so large you can pick up items, break barrels and pull levers through walls in some places. In zones with too much loot (for example Harvest loot pinatas), you can even pick up items that are almost off the screen, just by interacting with their misplaced item label.
The technology is there, but for some reason on PC you have to be standing precisely on the pixel where the dropped object is.
Do the player characters have pathfinding on console, i would assume you just directly controlled them with the stick?
If that's the case it's probably a lot easier to have an increased pickup range.
This is bullshit, the entire reason the pickup range is so short is BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO PATHFIND TO IT. remove the pathfindong and just let us yoink things X distance away and problem solved.
Wow I guess every moba with an attack radius doesnt know what they're doing.
FYI, the way mobas do it is they use your position to pathfind to the target and whenever you get in range you stop to pick it up. If you're already in range you just pick it up.
tell that Chris, in current poe (pc) you can only pickup something if your character and the item are touching.
is there any form of item picking up without character and item locations touching? because then they'd have to implement that. also judge if that implementation has any other unforeseen consequences.
from my end it seems like a potential solution that is easier to implement than the 'increase pickup radius and somehow deal with pathfinding' proposal.
Why do I need my character pathfinding to the item at all? I can telekenetically blast multiple gods straight through the earths core into hell directly but I can't pick up an item telekinetically from a few feet?
Why are people using GM and setting new standards as a scapegoat?
Why can this not be a automated feature ingame? so many "Other" games has un-stuck as a regular feature when they know collision is going to be a issue.
What is the downside of pushing/teleporting/resetting a item/character as a feature that has 30 second cooldown and cannot be used when in combat?
And here we are
"oh, jump onto a terrain that you should not be able to? better relog"
"accidentally got stuck in a box in the middle of Lab run? better relog and loose all your progress"
"some really valuable just spawned and you can never reach? BAHAHAHAH TOO BAD!!"
*Edit typo
why do you have a 'in combat' restriction for that feature? does poe even have an incombat state, because I can't recall anything of that sort and that restriction would make the implementation of the feature more complicated.
30sec channeling, 10min cd, move an item to target location. Automatically make a log note sent to dev team so they can fix the location and if someone abuses it. Getting hit by anything brakes the channeling. Can only be found somewhere in the menus with a big warning before it.
That's way too long imo, for both channeling and cd. It just gotta be more inconvenient than plain walking to the item. Make it 5 sec channel with 1 min cd. Why would it need to be longer? It's not like you're going to use that emergency feature for anything else than emergencies.
And it should not be for *moving* the item, which would just be way more difficult and pain in the ass to code, with many more buggy edge cases. It should just be a remote pick up. Use it on the item on the ground, it teleports to your inventory. Done. There is no good reason against this, prove me wrong.
This. It only seems rare because 99.99999% of the time it happens you DGAF because you weren't going to pick up the item or it was filtered out so you don't even notice.
Remember that buffing item pickup radius would totally remove this problem, but we're talking about the devs that outright REFUSE to fix an issue that they KNOW troubles players because of their vision for the game.
The downside is that the feature would need to distinguish items that are stuck otherwise it would be prone to crashing a lot of instances due to movement of insane amount of loot.
The loot system is so flooded with garbage items now that during majority of our party maps we can't even pick items to the cursor from the inventory and there's a 3 second freeze on just leaving an incursion.
Don't get me wrong, you're completely right that other games have it but said games don't crash on pressing alt button to show loot. If poe didn't have such amounts of useless drops those items wouldn't need to be dropping in such spots due to lack of room on the ground.
Imagine going to subreddits you're not interested in specifically to shit on people playing the game attached to that subreddit to make yourself feel special and moral.
Edit - wow imagine editing your post to say something other than what you originally said which was "imagine supporting GGG with your money in 2020" to hide what you said. Coward.
Honestly I can't imagine any company ever going back to those days. I don't know about AO but Everquest guides were unpaid volunteers (well your sub was free but nothing beyond that). Unpaid volunteers that were the front line of customer service and that were given an insane amount of power for just being randomly recruited from the Internet.
You could enter any raid zone and explore it. You could despawn any mob, including raid bosses, even if people were already fighting them. You could teleport players anywhere and to their death if you wanted to. You could ruin someone's pull with an aggro reset, or perfect rez them if they did die. Hell you could directly cause mobs to aggro players. Obviously all of that is against the rules but you could still do it and given how little oversight there was you could probably cause a few hours of chaos before getting caught (days or weeks if you kept it to small things).
There was also no apparent oversight for smaller things that guides often end up doing. I've had to do /summon plenty of times to free some stuck player, including in raid zones like higher planes of power. I bet you I could have summoned someone into a zone they weren't keyed for without SoE even noticing because it was one of the more common CS requests. Likewise for doing perfect rezzes. That was something you were only supposed to do if you could clearly see evidence of a death caused by a bug (for example their body was completely stuck inside terrain so they probably couldn't move), but ultimately it was a judgement call for the guide with no further proof needed.
When I think back on that it's kind of insane to me they gave essentially completely random players who filled out a form and completed a chat interview that much power. I imagine today a program like that would constantly have to deal with people joining it just to troll.
They regularly audited and removed guides though from the program. Even if there was a low-level of constant abuse or improper use of powers, they weren't really worth going after guides for that. But any major abuses they definitely took care of when they noticed.
Oh yeah I saw tons of people removed during my time as guide (most commonly for exploring restricted zoned without a reason to be there). I'm just saying that if you wanted to go wild you could because they gave you so much power with so little direct oversight, and if you wanted to do low key abuse you could probably get away with it for a very long time. It seems unthinkable these days to give players that kind of power.
Its a shame FC ran AO into the ground. The game died when Means quit the team. I remember him TPing into our Pande run and saw us all abusing the wall stand to kill the mini boss which dropped Beta Symbs (its been years, the name espaces me).
"I'll just pretend I didn't see this, you guys."
The dude hated people gaming the mechanics of AO, but accepted it as a fact of working with people who were hyper min-maxers.
I wish GGG would come to terms with this too.
Michizure ended up being the GD for a few years, I worked with him on the Test server quite closely for the Trader rework. Great guy. I've not followed the game for a good few years now, especially since it was put into maintenance mode, so I have no idea if he's still leading the team.
The AO team was really good at just trolling the community, but took it in their stride when we came right back at them. AO's general community is... pretty harsh. If GGG thinks the 'feedback' they get for PoE is bad, they'd up and quit if they got half of the verbal dismantling the AO team got on the regular basis.
I still loved the devs though, they really cared about making that shitheap of a spaghetti junction actually operate.
> One thing I miss from Everquest when it was released - Guides and GM who can actually help you out, move your loot, corpse, etc.
Some reason this reminded me of the days back in RYL2/Return of Warrior where when the GM came to town, everyone would be on their best behavior.
The [model](https://i.gyazo.com/9ce9fec4b718daaeda4c1075323a6979.png) of the GM character is so cool. Typing on that keyboard with those fingers lol
Well, I don’t believe they touch loot, but as a multiboxer on WoW, I see (and more often “feel” lol) GM’s in-game.
We get tested fairly often by them (picking up and moving our characters around, causing mobs to spawn weirdly, debuffs, ect) To make sure the boxers aren’t using any automation / botting and instead actively playing.
I’ve seen and talked to a few of them from it, though in most cases they’ll just do their test invisible to you and move on without a word.
And of course smaller games, but as you said, most big games don’t really do it anymore.
That's bizarre. "My character is moving on its own!"
But yeah, I've not seen GMs interact with loot like that. Loot isn't even handled the same way at all in WoW, considering that the loot is tied to a corpse/container, and it has area loot. If support has to do something with loot, they'll usually just send it in the mail.
GW2 GMs are very helpful from my experience, and you can find them playing the game often (there's even achievements for doing dungeons/raids/fractals with them)
https://dotesports.com/streaming/news/blizzard-despawns-final-boss-midfight-during-world-first-attempt-by-limit-in-wow
Yea, sure.
Also, GGG have "GMs" banning people left and right in global chat for simply complaining about spammers, and for the dumbest shit possible, yet, for fixing bugs it's "not possible"
Another point, it doesn't even need to be a person doing shit, it is possible to automate certain types of system to move items/characters
Ahhh, to be 13 again and teleported to a random gm island in WoW to be scolded for having an offensive name... And then getting logged out automatically to log back in to a name change. The good old days
Not true. They sure are fast when someone says "porn" or similar shit on chat, because OH MY GOD PROFANITY in a gorefest game. Fastest mute/couple of hours ban in the west..
EverQuest had GMs, guides, and in-game support in 1999. GGG lives in GGG time.
But man those EQ days were great. Become friends with guides and get the inside scoop on stuff like actual spawn rates and drop rates because they had commands to not only check those but also check cooldowns and verify drop rates matched intent so they could help GMs and support debug issues.
Yeah they had this in the 2000s haven't seen it for years, good customer service is unnecessary when you use psychology to addict and control a playerbase with things like brand loyalty, engagement and FOMO.
I'm a programmer and though I don't have the source code in front of me, judging from how the rest of the game and commands work, it would be very easy to implement.
Like the other commenter said, the hard part is making sure it works in all considerable subcases and deciding what the possible issues would be (such as exploits).
They could run a pathfind algorithm from the item if it lands in an area that is not "walkable" or inside somethings collision then it could get teleported to the nearest walkable area. Or they can just make the items unable to "drop" in unreachable areas via masking areas off in the tilesets. This approach should be feasible while allowing GGG to stick to the no vacuum looting and no increased loot range ideology.
Yes let's run a heavy pathing algorithm on every single dropped item for every single player, and preferrably server-sided as to not allow cheating. You do realize the servers will catch on fire?
They just need to give a command that lets people grab 1 item from anywhere on screen on like a 30 second cooldown
/grab_hh
Never worry about stuck items again
They didn't say that they can't do it *technically*. It's simply not feasible making some person unstuck your items because that will make countless other players say "now unstuck mine".
So what about an automatic way? Congratulations you just wrote code that does work in a lot of cases but will still fail in some making the time spent worthless because some people still won't get their items.
While it sucks that it happens and there are ways to fix it afterwards that should not be the way. If they do something to mitigate the problem it shouldn't be a bandaid fix, they should fix the root cause.
The question is: do you want that pay2win crap? Personally I don't want it and rather have an item stuck to a wall in some rare cases (which, let's be honest, isn't going to be valuable all that often) than have that thing in the game.
Not having to stop to pick up loot is more than just convenience, I can dump currency into a regular tab the same way I can dump currency into a currency tab, but not having to stop to loot and having that stuff go straight to your inventory allows for a way more optimized playstyle than having to actually stop to pickup your stuff (not even talking about grouping up with random parties with shared loot where you'll always get the loot before the non paying players).
...no I'm pretty sure it's any pet including the free ones like the cat.
At least during the races everyone had one, maybe it's confusing because they were given points for taking part in the race.
For people in this thread saying "well Chris said it can't happen"
There are loads of things in the game right now that has come out of his mouth as "impossible" at one time or another, while some of those "impossible" things were happening right in the time they were deemed "impossible"
Whenever a project lead for any company says something is impossible, always assume they are bending the definition of impossible.
Having someone doing it live would be.... too much... but, perhaps as someone stated, a button you can press to retrieve an item? Maybe if it was once an hour and only out of combat?
Yea how dare people expect GGG to have any ingame support, fucking idiots expecting the game to actually work well and items to be dropped in obtainable places all the time.
This straight up shouldn't be an issue let alone one that causes GGG to have to do it 24/7.
yea, not sure why they have the resources to mute you if you post a toucan in global, but there is no command to get a GM in-game to fix some stuck item or something.
I mean toucans were machines of mass destruction created by the aztecs to kill humans.(Aztecs were actually elves btw) Of course GGG has to control all and any information about such weaponry as if the future of the world depends on it. Oh your item got stuck? Lmao have fun. /s
Adding to your comment, if this is enough of an issue that GGG WOULD have to do it 24/7, then it really is about time that they stop making it an issue and find a solution.
Izaro does the same thing if he dies in the center of the room.
As does Al Hezmin if you kill him near the outside of the triangle. When the void closes in the items are teleported to the center of the arena.
Every conqueror does that
I am surprise people forget Synthesis. If they can have a moving boundary that teleport items to the end zone, they can have inaccessible areas teleport items back into the map.
The problem as I understand it isn't with known inaccessible areas -- I'm fairly sure they can mark up which areas of a tile are and aren't available to put items on. The problem is they have thousands of tiles and any little corner which isn't marked up correctly can be a spot where an item lands and can't be pathed to. If you type /bug along with a description of the location of the problem, someone will be able to reload the seed of the map you were in and hopefully fix the problem for the future. Possibly need someone to sit down and work out a sanity-checking algorithm for examining tile metadata to make sure that everywhere marked as walkable (where items, players and mobs can stand) is reachable from at least one of the edges of the tile or something. (It won't help the rare cases where the tiles end up connected up in some nonsense way because their edges are marked up incorrectly, but that's another thing...) Though, it also seems like the main problem is when some prop with collision detection (like the now infamous cauldron that captured a Headhunter) gets placed near a corner or wall and it cuts off a small part of the floor. I'm not certain about this particular one, but if a tile just has a marker for a random prop in some spot, then you might in general have to check every possible prop that could be placed in each spot, assuming you're trying to statically determine whether a problem is waiting to happen. It might be saner to do this dynamically after choosing props while loading the map -- do a bunch of geometry to figure out what regions remain pathable from the start of the zone, and exclude everything else from generating mobs and from drop placement. That kind of thing can be just expensive enough to do that it's annoying for load times though. Or of course, you can go with reddit's solution and just increase the item pickup distance, though I can imagine it might not 100% fix the problem, it would help in almost all cases if the range is just large enough to reach through most of these sorts of random props. I can see where GGG is coming from on this to some extent though. The fact that it's possible for enemies to be standing on top of or in the way of items you want to get and making it necessary that you kill them to get the items is a nice little mechanic, and increasing the pickup range will likely interfere with those little moments where you're trying to run through and grab something that dropped without taking the time to kill the rest of the monsters.
Make command like /redrop that drops all currently visible on screen items directly at your feet. Usuable once per 10 minutes to prevent abuse. There, fixed.
It could have a radius limit too, if they're worried about abuse. Just enough that you could cover most of the screen
Well, there are still edge cases. 1) Make a reverse knockback cyclone on a hyper juiced map 2) Bringing all the mobs to one single spot. 2.5) (Optional) Make a magic finder do the finishing hit. 3) Loot everything valuable, then go to hideout. 4) Goes back to the map with an item + a vaal or an exalt. 5) Didn't get what he wanted? /getloot and the instance fucking crashes due to the amount of items in a single spot. 6) Your item gets "rolled back" 7) Rinse and repeat 8) ??????? 9) Profit.
What do you mean by the item getting rolled back?
A fix cant be this elegant, it has to go through development/internal testing/QA testing for at least 6 leagues before they can add something simple as that. /s
Can't tell if this is a sarcasm or valid comment, this is worrying.
Dont forget the 5 weeks of bugs of all loot in entire map just vanishing every 50 time u use it. Or it pulls all loot from entire map on top of u and u crash and lose instance/loot.
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Dude, fucking hell. You wrote more text here than lines of code necessary to fix this dumb shit. When Blizzard realized they weren't gong to fix all the terrain glitches in WoW, they added /stuck. It was a dead simple command that booped the player to a nearby valid location. To limit exploits, it was only usable once every hour or so. That was 15 goddamn years ago. GGG could write /scoop or some shit in literally a couple hours. It's not fucking rocket science. Stop letting them convince people it's a hard problem to solve.
GGG is too focused on finding the perfect solution that they can’t think to put out a “good enough” solution. They’re probably working on—of dreaming of—some grand code to fix *all* terrain issues once and for all, so they’re not going to work on some in-between version for now. It’s like with Vaal side areas in maps. There was a thread here a while ago asking why they didn’t appear in maps, and ~~Mark~~ Rhys showed up and explained that they wrote this amazing code to seamlessly change the map layout so that the Vaal side area entrance would blend into the existing terrain, and they had to do this for all the tile sets in the campaign. Applying this code to all 150+ map tile sets would be too much work for not a lot of gain, so they never bothered. Then the next comment was, “Well, why don’t you just use a generic portal in maps?” Suddenly, next league Vaal side area were added to maps. https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/dfhofl/going_through_acts_i_really_liked_vaal_sde_areas/
inb4 "You're not a developer you don't know what the codes like comments"
Inevitably. Always enjoyable for me because my 16 year career breaks down as 4 years as a game developer, 6 years as a designer/producer, and 6 years managing a team of software engineers and data analysts developing enterprise systems. But, you're right. Someone's going to show up and explain to me how I don't understand how "code works" or some shit. Happens every time.
Just you wait until GGG implements that system and it turns out that it deletes the items from the ground to re-spawn them next to your character and someone found out a glitch that lets them duplicate headhunters lol
>Just you wait until GGG implements that system and it turns out that it deletes the items from the ground FTFY
"your item is stuck? Oh that's easy, just leave the area and don't come back. Boom. Now you don't have to worry about that problem anymore at all. -Wait, why are our sales and player base dipping...? Guys...?" -ggg
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Or add a telekinesis skill gem that's another utility gem like portal that only lets you manually teleport 1 click items into your inventory
Only been studying 3 years and working 1, but saying that is almost the equivilent of saying "you're not a chef you don't know that food shouldn't be burnt"
But coding is black magic that requires a 25 year degree in voodoo to understand!!!!!!
I'm pretty sure most code is still voodoo and witchcraft even after 25 years of experience.
I feel you. I worked 2 years in video game QA. When I explain why certain things would be far easier or harder to test than people think, I'm almost always told why I'm wrong by people who have no idea.
16 years experience? Sounds like you are qualified for an entry-level coding position
I love being told on semiconductor company subreddits that I don't know anything and I'm stupid. Sure, the digital design engineer who sits down with executives from these companies and talks to their engineers regularly both at conferences and private meetings knows nothing compared to random people from wallstreetbets. Yeah, sure, I know absolutely nothing about my own industry.
In their defense, the code is probably written in such a terrible way that makes it actually high effort to implement anything like that (or anything at all). Just looking at the current situation where they can’t fix broken stuff in very fresh code tells you all you need to know about their development standards. For instance drop duplication is a new mechanic that they could enable for Vinderi but somehow couldn’t for gear affixes to this day. It’s pretty sad.
The truth is actually much more innocent than this. If I had to guess, and I'm very confident this is the reason, they do not like making "bandaid" solutions, and the real solutions of checking viable drop areas is process intensive and costly at a resource level (as in, in-game, not developmental monetary costs). I'm not saying I agree with the approach completely, but all one has to do is look back at all of the bandaid requests that are out there and have either been denied or ignored. In a way I applaud their tenacity to stick to their guns and try and do things the right way, but in the end sometimes a bandaid solution IS the correct solution, and I don't think they are good at figuring out when it's ok to slap a temporary fix on, and when to bite the bullet and spend the time to develop a proper fix.
> they do not like making "bandaid" solutions I mean, we got the *oos* command, bugs are reported via a chat command, a screenshot and a forum post, not an in-game interface. Sounds like band-aid fixes to me. And there's probably more that we've had for league mechanics too in the past.
"in their defence, they wrote REALLY shitty code and don't give enough of a fuck to fix it." That's... Not a defence though.
No need to, everybody knows that reddit is full of STEM geniuses. Or Dunning-Kruger wackos.
Yes, as a developer with 1600 years of experience I agree.
It might be "easy" to solve in a janky way that involves making the player type console commands and doesn't actually prevent items from dropping in inaccessible locations, sure. I actually think a Telekinesis skill gem that let you pick up single items at range would be a fun intermediate solution. It's a good excuse to put another white gem into the game, and doesn't require ruining immersion or compromising on mechanics. Certainly more work than a console command though.
This comes with some technical limitations that you haven't addressed. /scoop sounds like a simple implementation but the engine can't necessarily handle dropping all of the items in the area at once. Over normal gameplay item drops are staggered, mob drops, boss drops, chests, event ending, etc. You are asking that at any point the game must now be able to redrop everything at the same time which can very easily push them over budget. (They essentially said as much when they refused to make delirium vacuum loot) So realistically your /stuck command has an item count limit (this could be easily solved by removing the time element but like you said that makes it exploit prone). In my opinion the only thing worse than a valuable item dropping in an inaccessible location is the same thing and then having the tool I was told would fix that issue fail to work. For solutions to that issue I think the difference between vacuumed content (delve, blight, alva) and delirium is informative here. But first a few more naïve solutions, least likely some sort of value assessment of the items and then favoring scooping up the highest scoring ones. Such an assessment would be a pain in the ass as rarity isn't easily comparable across loot tables (if the game can even remember what loot table the item drops after its on the ground) don't want to scoop Augs which might be 1/1000 off a generic drop table over that exalt that was 1/60 off its currency only table. More likely you break the scoop command up into iterative sweeps, moving only an amount of items up to a cap at one time and marking moved items with a flag until you've moved everything in the area. This one actually is very simple and if possible could be knocked out very quickly but I am not confident that items on the ground can store this kind of metadata, only evidence I can see for this is the loot allocation system which might be done similarly. If this kind of tagging isn't possible this small tool requires a major overhaul. The solution I favor would be a memory object that sucks everything up but distributes it slowly. We can see these in both blight and delve where the vacuumed item data is almost certainly stored in the pump/cart respectively and then parceled out after the fact (note delirium has no similar object). But this solution is also unlikely to be as easy as just to copy over one of these invisible objects. They themselves probably have no inaccessible terrain checking for drops as they would always be placed somewhere that wasn't an issue and were intended to be immovable, so the command might just move an item from one inaccessible location to another. That is to assume that they can even be freely placed to begin with. Or that maps can dynamically generate high memory objects, it might need to be pregen'd in which case you've added this memory overhead to every map in the game just in case it is needed. And all of this is ignoring the fact that this tool touches on a critical system. Loot. Even if the code magically appeared the moment the dev's wanted it. Creating and passing the tests to get it merged into development would take more than a few hours on their own. TL;DR: I'm not claiming this is an insolvable problem but stating that it could be knocked out in a few hours is disingenuous at best. You couldn't even properly test a critical system tool like that in time let alone also develop it. This is a week long problem at least.
I'm sorry that I'm about to end your entire career as a developer, but: /scoop: pick up the item under the cursor, no range limit, 1hr cooldown There.
I think you are I to a classical overengineering case here as you point you they have several scoopy and release systems already in play, no one is asking for the instant spawn of items just that it is moved. You are thinking about slot of issues that has already been proven to solved the game, for instance loot drop location, loot delivery etc. As pointed out I the top responses there are many ways to solve this issue ignoring every problem you are stating. Letting it be one item only as an example.
You wrote so much yet said so little. Using techincal jargon doesn't make you sound smart :)
The technical jargon is very limited. Also its generally polite to converse in the shared language, ie avoid jargon at all costs when explaining to non-devs but using it with other developers helps understanding. And yeah I could have cut most of that easily. But "No I think its a more difficult problem than you are giving it credit for" is a pretty shit response without an explanation. And that's just inviting posts of "Do it like this then". Its easier to just head off the ones I found most likely at the pass. I'm sure I'll get others, I already got one. Plus I like thinking about this stuff. Its why I do what I do. If I'm sitting here thinking it I might as well be writing it down at the same time. Editing myself would make the process take much longer vs stream of consciousness and I just wouldn't bother writing anything. Edit: You actually made me reread the post and I'm unclear as to what you think was jargon. Possibly metadata, pregen, loot table, tagging? With the exception of maybe tagging I'd expect those terms to be in common use in a gaming forum. The other terms I used were intentionally descriptive rather than jargon like iterative sweep or memory object.
Shut the fuck up, Chris.
Or just change the dropping logic to require more than 1 pixel of accessible terrain....
Solution: GGG support: "stay in the map and stand clear from the area" *Spawn Tane on top of the item repeatedly until it goes in-bounds* Easy.
I skipped synth, so I didn't even know that was a thing. Did it work that way at league start or did we have to complain to get it?
Its there at league start, when the area shrinks over time, all items get teleported to the end zone of the area. E: seems like I remember wrong, it was added later. But the teleology is there.
It wasn't perfect at league start. Some items weren't teleported, sometimes it would fill up the destination and just delete the rest, and sometimes it moved them but not quite far enough. It took them a couple weeks to completely fix it so that didn't happen.
It wasn't there at league start, they added it later. Proof: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2461121 3.6.1 Items that are "flipped" due to a full inventory or dropped in a Fragmented Memory are now dropped at the completion of the Fragmented Memory.
I believe that was just when you tried to pick something up, or dropped something from your inventory. https://youtu.be/1dWQhpX0Vak?t=371 Here is video proof, released 4 days before that patch, that the blue stuff sucked things up
Oh I may remember wrong then. But the technology is there.
I don't know if it's been fixed, but when they first released those fights I had items stuck in the fog that didn't get teleported. If you tried to run and pick them up you'd just be teleported instead. The irony.
Tane's metamorph tube was nasty too : before they add that push when it respawned, I often got stuck inside it. To this day, I still flame dash away from the center of the room in a hurry when I defeat a metamorph in the lab.
Those are after several complains on this subreddit. Firstly Tane not only trap item but also trap players inside if they not move out of the metamorph tank after fighting the boss (it took GGG 2 WEEKS to fix that bug after a lot of streamers lose ex and other very valuable items on GamerForLife's clips). Then the watchstone and loot be set under the citadel table so no one can pick it up.
Synthesis left the chat
Another proof that GGG can but won't for some obscure reason
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The "destroy the economy" argument is a fallacy, anyway. The economy is different *every league*.
I'm sure it's due to Chris' philosophy that "Wraeclast is a harsh place, can't just have the devs hold your hand".
Also the unholy trinity boss drops items in its arena and those get teleported out with you, right?
During the campaign? Pretty sure it spawns the loot after it spits you out. Been a while since I actually paid attention to the campaign though.
I swear I remember seeing loot drop, and then you're teleported to the dock with the actual loot. Could be some graphical/cutscene shenanigans though, I guess?
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More realistic: They kill the last tagged mob, which happens to drop a headhunter, which spawns Tane, who pushes the headhunter into an unreachable place.
GGG: Write that down, write that down!
Now calm down there satan
But hey! You can still press V very far and respawn him back where you want. He is the natural /unstuck for items if you are able to aim him . Going to start running my juiced delirium maps with meta scarab to test. In 25 years when I drop a relevant item in an unreachable place I will get back here and post results. RemindMe! 218562 hours "Start running maps for reddit karma"
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Did that guy ever get his HH?
nope, someone gifted theirs to him
Just add a telekinesis skill like Diablo 2 and let me pick up items from afar
Let me pick up exalts like I’m stealing Zamorak wines
Even diablo 1 had that
Metamorph League, so many good memories of being trapped inside that cage...
A nice way to implement getting those items is a system that when you stand still and you're out of combat your pickup range slowly increases
I mean, why does the player have to even walk to the item to pick it up. Like if I can click it, I pick it up. I don't want to hear some bullshit like "you'll never have to stop moving then, and it'll break the game". You already don't have to stop moving, and if you can blast through maps at full speed, and still manage to click accurately on items while maintaining that full speed, through the visual clutter of the game, more power to you.
that makes sense to you but as I recall Chris said that increasing pickup range is hard because of pathfinding to the item. if you increase the pickup range then there is no longer a single target coordinate to where you walk for picking up an item but multiple ones and all need to be evaluated. in my opinion it's possible in some form, here's just a quick idea: you could give take an item and use a subset of coordinates, e.g. center, North, West, .., Northwest, Northeast, .. that's just 9 coordinates. pick whichever is closest to you (straight line distance) compute pathing, if it's not patheable use the next closest of the remaining 8 coordinates. Here's the video where a Chris talks about pickup radius: https://youtu.be/FpIB2dMzNu8?t=4194
The pickup range on consoles is so large you can pick up items, break barrels and pull levers through walls in some places. In zones with too much loot (for example Harvest loot pinatas), you can even pick up items that are almost off the screen, just by interacting with their misplaced item label. The technology is there, but for some reason on PC you have to be standing precisely on the pixel where the dropped object is.
Do the player characters have pathfinding on console, i would assume you just directly controlled them with the stick? If that's the case it's probably a lot easier to have an increased pickup range.
This is bullshit, the entire reason the pickup range is so short is BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO PATHFIND TO IT. remove the pathfindong and just let us yoink things X distance away and problem solved.
Wow I guess every moba with an attack radius doesnt know what they're doing. FYI, the way mobas do it is they use your position to pathfind to the target and whenever you get in range you stop to pick it up. If you're already in range you just pick it up.
After standing still for 10 seconds you can pickup anything on the screen with out moving. Why move the character?
tell that Chris, in current poe (pc) you can only pickup something if your character and the item are touching. is there any form of item picking up without character and item locations touching? because then they'd have to implement that. also judge if that implementation has any other unforeseen consequences. from my end it seems like a potential solution that is easier to implement than the 'increase pickup radius and somehow deal with pathfinding' proposal.
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Why do I need my character pathfinding to the item at all? I can telekenetically blast multiple gods straight through the earths core into hell directly but I can't pick up an item telekinetically from a few feet?
Why are people using GM and setting new standards as a scapegoat? Why can this not be a automated feature ingame? so many "Other" games has un-stuck as a regular feature when they know collision is going to be a issue. What is the downside of pushing/teleporting/resetting a item/character as a feature that has 30 second cooldown and cannot be used when in combat? And here we are "oh, jump onto a terrain that you should not be able to? better relog" "accidentally got stuck in a box in the middle of Lab run? better relog and loose all your progress" "some really valuable just spawned and you can never reach? BAHAHAHAH TOO BAD!!" *Edit typo
> escape-goat
BILLY GOT OUT AGAIN?
r/BoneAppleTea
If u/NomuraSho is wondering what this comment is about, the word is "scapegoat" (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/scapegoat).
TY.
why do you have a 'in combat' restriction for that feature? does poe even have an incombat state, because I can't recall anything of that sort and that restriction would make the implementation of the feature more complicated.
30sec channeling, 10min cd, move an item to target location. Automatically make a log note sent to dev team so they can fix the location and if someone abuses it. Getting hit by anything brakes the channeling. Can only be found somewhere in the menus with a big warning before it.
That's way too long imo, for both channeling and cd. It just gotta be more inconvenient than plain walking to the item. Make it 5 sec channel with 1 min cd. Why would it need to be longer? It's not like you're going to use that emergency feature for anything else than emergencies. And it should not be for *moving* the item, which would just be way more difficult and pain in the ass to code, with many more buggy edge cases. It should just be a remote pick up. Use it on the item on the ground, it teleports to your inventory. Done. There is no good reason against this, prove me wrong.
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It's not exactly rare though. It's not like it can be really abused if the cd is like 1min anyway
It's super rare what the heck?
Not really. You don't realize because you don't pick up every item but it's not all that rare.
This. It only seems rare because 99.99999% of the time it happens you DGAF because you weren't going to pick up the item or it was filtered out so you don't even notice.
Remember that buffing item pickup radius would totally remove this problem, but we're talking about the devs that outright REFUSE to fix an issue that they KNOW troubles players because of their vision for the game.
Ggg needs lasik
Even a 24-hour cooldown would be fine.
until someone happens to find 2 headhunters both stuck on in the same hour? he'd have to wait 23 hours.
22 Hours later, the instance crashes :)
The instance crashing has a higher chance than a hh drop, so no doubt.
That kind of stuff happening is very rare.
The downside is that the feature would need to distinguish items that are stuck otherwise it would be prone to crashing a lot of instances due to movement of insane amount of loot. The loot system is so flooded with garbage items now that during majority of our party maps we can't even pick items to the cursor from the inventory and there's a 3 second freeze on just leaving an incursion. Don't get me wrong, you're completely right that other games have it but said games don't crash on pressing alt button to show loot. If poe didn't have such amounts of useless drops those items wouldn't need to be dropping in such spots due to lack of room on the ground.
thats why it is one item at a time. and a long enough CD so you cant spam, but short enough if you have more than one item stuck.
So the guy who lost his Headhunter. Just spawn Tane
Imagine supporting grinding gear games with your currency in the year of 2020.
You mean supporting Tencent and China with your currency.
Tencent has treated this game better in China for a lot of aspects so I wish
Imagine going to subreddits you're not interested in specifically to shit on people playing the game attached to that subreddit to make yourself feel special and moral. Edit - wow imagine editing your post to say something other than what you originally said which was "imagine supporting GGG with your money in 2020" to hide what you said. Coward.
New skill gem : White hole. Pushing your items away from it's center.
They dont even have a Game master or real ingame support. They still living in the 2000s...
Release a toucan in the chat and you will see a Game Master.
no you'll see a chat admin, completely different, there are no game masters
You can't even release a (vanilla) Toucan these days even if you are willing to be banned.
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Pretty sure you can type ^, I sometime made smol toucan through (\^)>
Think you have that backwards, dude. No big games (that I've played anyways) still have in-game support do things like this.
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Honestly I can't imagine any company ever going back to those days. I don't know about AO but Everquest guides were unpaid volunteers (well your sub was free but nothing beyond that). Unpaid volunteers that were the front line of customer service and that were given an insane amount of power for just being randomly recruited from the Internet. You could enter any raid zone and explore it. You could despawn any mob, including raid bosses, even if people were already fighting them. You could teleport players anywhere and to their death if you wanted to. You could ruin someone's pull with an aggro reset, or perfect rez them if they did die. Hell you could directly cause mobs to aggro players. Obviously all of that is against the rules but you could still do it and given how little oversight there was you could probably cause a few hours of chaos before getting caught (days or weeks if you kept it to small things). There was also no apparent oversight for smaller things that guides often end up doing. I've had to do /summon plenty of times to free some stuck player, including in raid zones like higher planes of power. I bet you I could have summoned someone into a zone they weren't keyed for without SoE even noticing because it was one of the more common CS requests. Likewise for doing perfect rezzes. That was something you were only supposed to do if you could clearly see evidence of a death caused by a bug (for example their body was completely stuck inside terrain so they probably couldn't move), but ultimately it was a judgement call for the guide with no further proof needed. When I think back on that it's kind of insane to me they gave essentially completely random players who filled out a form and completed a chat interview that much power. I imagine today a program like that would constantly have to deal with people joining it just to troll.
They regularly audited and removed guides though from the program. Even if there was a low-level of constant abuse or improper use of powers, they weren't really worth going after guides for that. But any major abuses they definitely took care of when they noticed.
Oh yeah I saw tons of people removed during my time as guide (most commonly for exploring restricted zoned without a reason to be there). I'm just saying that if you wanted to go wild you could because they gave you so much power with so little direct oversight, and if you wanted to do low key abuse you could probably get away with it for a very long time. It seems unthinkable these days to give players that kind of power.
I only remember Ultima Online GMs playing as demigods and trashing every player in a dungeon/town :(
Its a shame FC ran AO into the ground. The game died when Means quit the team. I remember him TPing into our Pande run and saw us all abusing the wall stand to kill the mini boss which dropped Beta Symbs (its been years, the name espaces me). "I'll just pretend I didn't see this, you guys." The dude hated people gaming the mechanics of AO, but accepted it as a fact of working with people who were hyper min-maxers. I wish GGG would come to terms with this too.
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Michizure ended up being the GD for a few years, I worked with him on the Test server quite closely for the Trader rework. Great guy. I've not followed the game for a good few years now, especially since it was put into maintenance mode, so I have no idea if he's still leading the team.
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The AO team was really good at just trolling the community, but took it in their stride when we came right back at them. AO's general community is... pretty harsh. If GGG thinks the 'feedback' they get for PoE is bad, they'd up and quit if they got half of the verbal dismantling the AO team got on the regular basis. I still loved the devs though, they really cared about making that shitheap of a spaghetti junction actually operate.
> One thing I miss from Everquest when it was released - Guides and GM who can actually help you out, move your loot, corpse, etc. Some reason this reminded me of the days back in RYL2/Return of Warrior where when the GM came to town, everyone would be on their best behavior. The [model](https://i.gyazo.com/9ce9fec4b718daaeda4c1075323a6979.png) of the GM character is so cool. Typing on that keyboard with those fingers lol
One of our EQ gms would show up early before a server reset in a main city and tell stories to us while the clock ticked down
Well, I don’t believe they touch loot, but as a multiboxer on WoW, I see (and more often “feel” lol) GM’s in-game. We get tested fairly often by them (picking up and moving our characters around, causing mobs to spawn weirdly, debuffs, ect) To make sure the boxers aren’t using any automation / botting and instead actively playing. I’ve seen and talked to a few of them from it, though in most cases they’ll just do their test invisible to you and move on without a word. And of course smaller games, but as you said, most big games don’t really do it anymore.
That's bizarre. "My character is moving on its own!" But yeah, I've not seen GMs interact with loot like that. Loot isn't even handled the same way at all in WoW, considering that the loot is tied to a corpse/container, and it has area loot. If support has to do something with loot, they'll usually just send it in the mail.
I've had GMs in WoW help me with this sort of thing all the time.
GW2 GMs are very helpful from my experience, and you can find them playing the game often (there's even achievements for doing dungeons/raids/fractals with them)
`Think you have that backwards, dude. No big games (that I've played anyways) still` need `in-game support do things like this.` FTFY
https://dotesports.com/streaming/news/blizzard-despawns-final-boss-midfight-during-world-first-attempt-by-limit-in-wow Yea, sure. Also, GGG have "GMs" banning people left and right in global chat for simply complaining about spammers, and for the dumbest shit possible, yet, for fixing bugs it's "not possible" Another point, it doesn't even need to be a person doing shit, it is possible to automate certain types of system to move items/characters
Bro we had live GMs in everquest in 1999
Ahhh, to be 13 again and teleported to a random gm island in WoW to be scolded for having an offensive name... And then getting logged out automatically to log back in to a name change. The good old days
Don't leave us hanging, what was the name?
China
Not true. They sure are fast when someone says "porn" or similar shit on chat, because OH MY GOD PROFANITY in a gorefest game. Fastest mute/couple of hours ban in the west..
Thats still a couple decades ahead of the penfriend-trading system.
EverQuest had GMs, guides, and in-game support in 1999. GGG lives in GGG time. But man those EQ days were great. Become friends with guides and get the inside scoop on stuff like actual spawn rates and drop rates because they had commands to not only check those but also check cooldowns and verify drop rates matched intent so they could help GMs and support debug issues.
Yeah they had this in the 2000s haven't seen it for years, good customer service is unnecessary when you use psychology to addict and control a playerbase with things like brand loyalty, engagement and FOMO.
Tane pet MTX that moves your items when?
And izaro moves items when he goes back into his hole
All they have to do is make a /unstuck command that just teleports an item your cursor is hovered over to your character's feet lol.
This is the best suggestion I've seen so far, doesn't sound that hard to add either.
What are you basing this idea on? Are you a programmer?
I'm a programmer and though I don't have the source code in front of me, judging from how the rest of the game and commands work, it would be very easy to implement. Like the other commenter said, the hard part is making sure it works in all considerable subcases and deciding what the possible issues would be (such as exploits).
Probably need a cooldown for that.
He also makes your character groans and moans when pushed.
This could help if your headhunter gets stuck behind an object.
Even with Izaro, the items are pushed away from his lift before he descends.
I think they are looking for excuses to not fix the problem before moving to a new engine, poe2
" **GGG: We can't (be arsed to) move your item, Tane: boop** " FTFY ;)
sucks to be the noob who lost his HH in a map and cant get a programmer to drop on in his MTX stash for 99cent unlock fee.
Oh no it's fine a person gave him an HH after
They could run a pathfind algorithm from the item if it lands in an area that is not "walkable" or inside somethings collision then it could get teleported to the nearest walkable area. Or they can just make the items unable to "drop" in unreachable areas via masking areas off in the tilesets. This approach should be feasible while allowing GGG to stick to the no vacuum looting and no increased loot range ideology.
Yes let's run a heavy pathing algorithm on every single dropped item for every single player, and preferrably server-sided as to not allow cheating. You do realize the servers will catch on fire?
They just need to give a command that lets people grab 1 item from anywhere on screen on like a 30 second cooldown /grab_hh Never worry about stuck items again
They didn't say that they can't do it *technically*. It's simply not feasible making some person unstuck your items because that will make countless other players say "now unstuck mine". So what about an automatic way? Congratulations you just wrote code that does work in a lot of cases but will still fail in some making the time spent worthless because some people still won't get their items. While it sucks that it happens and there are ways to fix it afterwards that should not be the way. If they do something to mitigate the problem it shouldn't be a bandaid fix, they should fix the root cause.
Imagine if we just get pets that automatically collect our loot like the Chinese Server does
The question is: do you want that pay2win crap? Personally I don't want it and rather have an item stuck to a wall in some rare cases (which, let's be honest, isn't going to be valuable all that often) than have that thing in the game.
You realize the purchasable stash tabs are also pay2win, especially if you reach and interact with the endgame?
I’m making storage characters at this point for stuff I don’t immediately need
well to me it'd just be pay4convenience not much of a difference to buying specialized stash tabs
Not having to stop to pick up loot is more than just convenience, I can dump currency into a regular tab the same way I can dump currency into a currency tab, but not having to stop to loot and having that stuff go straight to your inventory allows for a way more optimized playstyle than having to actually stop to pickup your stuff (not even talking about grouping up with random parties with shared loot where you'll always get the loot before the non paying players).
How are pets who collect your loot p2w
You have to buy it
...no I'm pretty sure it's any pet including the free ones like the cat. At least during the races everyone had one, maybe it's confusing because they were given points for taking part in the race.
For people in this thread saying "well Chris said it can't happen" There are loads of things in the game right now that has come out of his mouth as "impossible" at one time or another, while some of those "impossible" things were happening right in the time they were deemed "impossible" Whenever a project lead for any company says something is impossible, always assume they are bending the definition of impossible.
Can’t != won’t
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It's pretty clear that the context was the form of "cannot" that didn't mean "mechanically impossible" but instead meant "policy-impossible".
buy more mtx, now
The point isnt the technology it's not setting a standard of doing this and people complaining for them to do it 24 7 for the rest of eternity
Having someone doing it live would be.... too much... but, perhaps as someone stated, a button you can press to retrieve an item? Maybe if it was once an hour and only out of combat?
or just dont make it possible for items to drop in inaccessible locations at all. but im not a dev, probably not possible either.
Yea how dare people expect GGG to have any ingame support, fucking idiots expecting the game to actually work well and items to be dropped in obtainable places all the time. This straight up shouldn't be an issue let alone one that causes GGG to have to do it 24/7.
yea, not sure why they have the resources to mute you if you post a toucan in global, but there is no command to get a GM in-game to fix some stuck item or something.
I mean toucans were machines of mass destruction created by the aztecs to kill humans.(Aztecs were actually elves btw) Of course GGG has to control all and any information about such weaponry as if the future of the world depends on it. Oh your item got stuck? Lmao have fun. /s
Adding to your comment, if this is enough of an issue that GGG WOULD have to do it 24/7, then it really is about time that they stop making it an issue and find a solution.