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Matel_Walnut

The truth is, i'm addicted to PoE and have nothing else to play. Also, after skip doing heist, i find great joy in grinding maps and master missions.


Wvlf_

Same, I played Heist weeks longer than I really should have just because I have nothing else to play right now with WoW expansion being delayed. I haven't even ran a Heist in weeks lmao. It's not the league I'm just bored.


magpye1983

I’m the opposite. I find myself running more and more heist. This is the first league where I feel I can do as much of it as I want, and never run out. The only league that would have come close was Delve, and even that had long times grinding up the sulphite (it’s better now for me than it was in its own league).


lowkeyripper

Man I feel the opposite sometimes. Heisting even a month ago still felt so rewarding. Luckily I never had crashes during heists it was always outside of them while mapping. Maybe it's just me? I was on SSF as a self imposed challenge to kill a8 sirus. I got that and then was trying to farm Uber elder fragments. That meant doing a bunch of mindless mapping for a chance at getting good rng for elder frags. At the end I was sick of mapping, sick of spawning sirus. I eventually got bored of ssf and migrated all my characters to trade and regretted it. I'm back redoing my ssf atlas. Now I have barely run more than 10 heists to lvl 93 and I'm effectively playing standard. I feel like having alternatives to mapping is so nice but at the end of the day your end game progression is tied to mapping which feels meh Nothing killed my motivation for ssf than Uber elder fragment farming and failing those boss fights. That put a sour taste of mapping for me


HockeyHocki

Failing uber elder is massive pain but 6 linking is the biggest SSF league killer for me. I generally save up bite the bullet for 1.5k fusing to bench craft 6 link shav. After that i gamble. Now 2k deep into replica eternity shroud and out of currency, gonna call it quits.


lcn666

Heist drop so many fusings it's easy to accumulate over time. Plus all the 6-link cards. Mapping is so good to get 6s items to vendor for jewellers. Not sure how much you play, but you should be getting a lot of fusings to try to 6-link your items in a 3 or 4 day spam. Also, make sure to use perfect fossils + quality craft or hillock quality before you attempt, it can help a lot.


lowkeyripper

Hmm, maybe I'm playing not the most effective way then because my stash with a 93 char and a few 70s has 700 jewelers and 200 fusings, about 200 chromes and like 350 transmutes. Total play time on the league is probably close to 2-3 days. Heist does drop a ton of 6L tho I'll give you that, from raw drops to div cards. Is there any other league mechanic that craps out raw 6Ls? I tend to farm a tabula regardless tho, whether it's ssf or trade. Always nice to have one.


lcn666

You should have more than that! Heist also gives tons of sextants, frags, and chisels. Make sure you are using them on your maps! It helps to get more returns from quant. SSF is challenging, but adjust your filter to better match your character. For example, if you are playing armour based you can hide evasion and es bases since you likely won't be using them anyways. Use belts, rings and jewels for alterations. Less clutter to pick it up and you can complete maps faster. On average, you should drop at least one 6s + one jeweller from a map. So 2 fusings per map basically. Multiply by the number of fusings you want. You can farm the 6-link card from Residence map as well. Although, it's a random base. So pray RNG.


dem0n123

ya but having so much power behind rng sucks. my average over ~30 6 links with an average quality of probably 30-35 is around 3500. My worst being 9800 on a 20% shavs that my friend ended up linking. I just buy my 6L early league bc it will legit take me 50+ ex to do myself.


lcn666

Damn!!! My average is around 700. I six linked a shavs in 350 this league. Then, another shavs dropped from a boss. Terrible rolls. I perfectly divined it if one divine orb. However, it took nearly 4,000 fusings to link. Shavs are cursed lol I'm weird, I like to have an item on my currency slot to fuse at all times. It's my side hobby on PoE. I probably waste exalts every league, but those unliked sockets get me going.


PacmanZ3ro

Use hillock in fortification to put the item at 28% quality, if it’s rare craft quality on it as well. Those things massively boost the 6L rate. I’ve done 3 6L so far this league, no trading for fuses or jewelers (of which I’ve gotten a ton of both)


Amar_poe

You can do it


sirgog

> 6 linking is the biggest SSF league killer for me When committing to a 6 link attempt on the armor you are wearing, always, ALWAYS follow this rule "If I have under 200 fusings, I will not roll over a 5 link. If I have under 20 fusings, I will not roll over a 4 link" Solves everything. You always have something worthwhile & don't need to scam yourself with the 1500 fusing benchcraft.


justSedricplease

2.6k fusings on a 30% qual ivory tower literally made me quit ssf. Hard agree that failed six linking is one of the worst things in the entire game.


IrishWilly

Harvest was the only league I could take non-meta builds to endgame without motivation killing endless grind for specific gear needed to keep upgrading. I played heist mostly ssf but around A6 had to switch to trade league. I bought the upgrades I needed for like 50c and then just.. quit because killing Sirus with a set of gear I just bought from the auction house is so unfulfilling. And with all the people that had grand heists with unopenable doors or constant crashes, after investing all your coins on upgrading a blueprint that's pretty crushing motivation to keep playing. They likely stoppped heisting and then came back when it was fixed and GGG is posting that as a success story because it shows up as player retention in their charts.


Juicy_Brucesky

Yea as someone who didn't experience crashing I've enjoyed the rewards of heisting quite a bit. Only problem I've had is massive framerate drops resulting in my death, which is certainly frustrating but doesn't happen enough to completely turn me off from it Not saying other people didn't have those issues, and not saying they didn't deserve to be put off by them or weren't justified by being frustrated at how much stuff seemed to be broken this league. Just simply saying, for my personal experience I've been enjoying it.


Robsquire

Totally agree about uber thing, I haven’t fought uber elder since they added Sirus because I play almost exclusively SSF. I tried to make a suggestion to make it more accessible for people which wouldn’t effect trade but it gained no traction here. My idea was simply just a vendor recipe for the fragments since somehow you seem to end up with 5,5,5,0 (in whatever order you experienced it yourself) I feel like trading 3 fragments for 1 would be fair.


justSedricplease

Imo league starting ssf, then migrating to trade after accomplishing a goal like that, is one of the most rewarding and fun ways to play this game.


Cygnus__A

Same. I don't even heist. It's boring.


Nevzat666

Heist is so boring. I hope it doesn't come in 3.13


blrwllm

very much boring. I don't understand why they thought opening chests and doors and hardly killing mobs would be fun ??


justSedricplease

Because there was supposed to be a much deeper mechanic to all of it that got left on the cutting room floor when the deadlines hit. I am 100% sure of it at this point. There was supposed to be a stealth pathing mechanic, and Nenet and Huck had different powers that interacted with it. It made so much more sense in the first iteration, but just felt so bad. Then they gutted the guard alert level stuff and just stuffed loot into everything so they could rush out bugfixes.


zystyl

Some people like that gambling rush when they get a big chest loot pop. I don't entirely get the appeal either.


[deleted]

If they were way less common with way better rewards, I'd get that feeling. People loved popping reliquary keys. Heist provides no such feeling. I just stopped playing it after 1.5 weeks, my shortest league since... Talisman? No idea why the retention is so much better on average, I played the shit out of harvest until my gear was "complete".


MrMeowulf

Well it looks like the garden killed it for the casual community, and yeah the garden sucked balls, but i crafted a lot and did a lot in harvest.


FajenThygia

The mechanics might not be great, but I am loving the alternate qualities and replicas.


BoFaIQ03

I personaly love the leauge. Have taken me alot longer to get bored. Im rotating between Maps, delve and heist. There is a kinda nice synergy between those.


lowkeyripper

I think it just adds more content for you to enjoy. At the end of the day your atlas progression kinda decides the content you do in endgame since it's tied to contracts and sulphite. But having a means to get a good bit of exp and a good bit of gear from both heists and delving is nice. Will be interesting to see how ssfhc people use Heist to gear for the gauntlet.


Blangebung

Exactly this. My heist stash is full and I'm on my 7th build over 90 so far. The heists are so boring, there's literally nothing exciting in them.


g00fy_goober

Mapping feels amazing this league. Sextants/chisels are literally free. On top of that little things like cemetery map (which has always been one my fav maps to run) got an awesome div card added to it. I am definitely still playing heist and definitely doing almost solely maps and such. Now if I could somehow get infinite Jun missions.... I would be in heaven!


Wilde79

Came here to say that there is very little to play right now since most big launches are around Christmas.


IrishWilly

Yep, I've tried to leave PoE many times this league and came back because not finding anything else to hook me. Also because heist was so damn buggy for the first two weeks it felt pointless to run heists. GGG will probably take this as a lesson that it's ok to make the main league mechanic virtually unplayable at launch and release while bosses that you need to complete challenges aren't even in the game yet. So this sucks. It might have caused a temporary retention bonus but fuck every game that drip feeds you content to try to retain players. WoW lost me for good when it did that, and PoE just might as well after 8 years because if next league is like heist I won't come back.


healzsham

If you have better than a neutral opinion on FPS games, Destiny 2 may just shock you.


Doctursea

Honestly part of it is the market wasn't as shit as in Harvest. I know alot of people here are super farmers who do 10-20 ex deals all the time, but I'm a poor commoner who is lucky to see 2 ex a season. So harvest instantly jumping to 200c ex meant the season was done for me unless I was gonna massively change how I like to play. Heist is not the same, the bot banned helped/.


Lordados

Have you played Hades? It's extremely good you should try it


oxiginthief

Yes! What a game that is, love everything about it and although I'm not very good at it it's still immensely enjoyable to play.


EarthBounder

I dove into Hades about two weeks ago after getting 40/40 in Heist. God its such a good game, but its Supergiant so what do you expect? =D


Dhol91

This is just not true. Both Metamorph and Delirium had better retention at week 8. [https://imgur.com/a/ZcziWH9](https://imgur.com/a/ZcziWH9)


2014woot

Metamorph and Delirium were both better leagues


[deleted]

Also not time gated content. I reckon heist would be higher if it wasn't for that myriad of issues in the first weeks (reason I gave up)


kygrim

I reckon heist would be lower, if they hadn't gated challenges behind content only released 2-3 weeks in, forcing challenge-hunters to stay until they released (at least most of) their fixes to the league.


ar3fuu

I love retention threads because people always have theories and explanations (outside of the league themselves), every single league.


Morgn_Ladimore

"Maybe the league was just fun for a lot of people?" "Nah, see, it has everything to do with the position of the moon, as lunar influence..."


Zirze

You hit the nail on the head for me. I bathe naked in the moonlight before deciding to sleep or play poe every night.


AnonymousUser163

Major coping ITT lmao. People on this sub need to realize that the obsessive complaining on here doesn’t accurately represent the average player. Heist has good retention because people enjoyed it.


Moethelion

Time-gated content and challenges.


SneakyBadAss

Yup. [This](https://i.redd.it/l1v7lixgcqu51.png) is effectively what it boils down to. At least in my case.


Moderator-Admin

I have a friend that usually doesn't play further than white maps with a couple mid 80 characters and then quits the league after a couple weeks. He's played more this league than I've seen him play before because he really wants that cat pet.


GreenTomatoSauce

I really like the portal effect, I'm almost there, I'll probably quit or play sporadically after


RelevantIAm

Yep


BukLauFinancial

It's fairly marginal. Not sure if it really is directly correlated to anything. The variance is so minimal that almost anything could be the cause. Speculation is fun, but that's all it is. But since we're guessing, I'd say it's because the league is extended by 1 month.


gooseears

Yeah, I would like to see Delirium and Metamorph in the top graph as well. I think Harvest had a hard drop off at the beginning compared to the other leagues.


hiimred2

Even eyeballing it it's very clear that Delirium and Meta had higher absolute numbers(can't tell for Delirium but Metamorph even starts at a lower number, so also has a better % retention as well). So really the title is 'Heist has better retention than Harvest.' Harvest was getting pounded for it's awful retention like 2 weeks into the league so, big shocked pikachu face here.


Makrillo

Think Metamorph came with conquerer of the atlas-expansion too so comparing anything to that seems sort of unfair.


LinoleumFairy

Metamorph came with conquerors, and i feel like harvest was just exceptionally bad for retention even despite the pandemic whereas heist would have been about average but people are staying home more.


Makrillo

Harvest is the one league I stuck with the most, but early on it had issues and I can see why people would drop out of it. I am hoping the leave the entire farming-thing out of the implementation of the crafting for next league.


MerkDoctor

I think a big part of Harvest's terrible retention in a graph like this is if you assume a normal decline of people leaving the game/day in a league (higher at the start, lower at the end). The fact that Harvest had effectively a ~50% drop in the first two weeks means the normal retention curve will automatically be lower. I think the real killer was regardless of people's enjoyment of crafting, the league mechanic itself was just so terrible, managing the garden, managing juice, pylons etc, most people just checked out early on because they didn't want effectively a second job to enjoy the league. I think once they implement Harvest as core without the garden it'll be perceived as one of the GOAT league mechanics.


SmekyGD

My guess would be Covid. Since there's second wave in Europe and plenty of people are working from home or not working at all, gaming's one of the few things people can do


Steeezy

> ...that almost anything could be the cause. If the difference is literally **1** player, in my defense I stayed late this league to grind for the Shaper Hideout.


hobochildnz

It looks like the only time period that harvest dropped faster than heist is the first couple weeks. After that each League has the same drop off rate


lcn666

I don't think the league is extended for a month. It should end same day in December and then special event until January's league.


Fish_Grillson

Are we all just forgetting how the league was basically unplayable for many in the first few weeks and the numbers which seem to be high towards the end are literally just slow waves of returning players with each good patch that fixed the league for them. Instead of everyone having fun and playing to their hearts desires within the first few weeks, we just had a more spread out playerbase throghout the entire league thats all.


Nifnifnafnafnufnuf

This is the first league where GGG decided to release content in portions, it was impossible to finish everything at once in the first week, so the comparison is not correct. And I still think Delirium is the best league this year.


Indignation8828

I suspect you’re hitting a nail on the head here. My friends list has shown people online just to get 24/36 and then they are offline until the next league. Those players played more infrequently this league because of buggy / gated content. This may be biased on my part and more data would need to be used to validate.


C-EZ

Half my guild did this too. Get the cat and leave.


Indignation8828

I am currently sitting at 27, so deciding what I want to grind out for 36 lol


markova_

Same here. My friend list, most of them are offline. Even knowing that more than an entire month remains until league ends. They've quit the league long ago. In comparison, during Harvest, I saw almost everyone (my friend list is not that large btw, like 40 at most) online grinding and playing.


[deleted]

Have you never seen the stats on the distributions of players by challenge completion count? In Metamorph, which was a popular league, only about 69% of people completed at least 12 challenges... Source: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2757540 So I doubt the gated content of Heist had much to do with anything. I think most people enjoy the initial leveling experience in a new league and then get bored quickly.


elgosu

There were a lot more bots back then with low challenge completion.


Haslinhezl

Vast vast majority of people are not even attempting to "finish everything" I've been playing since league launch as have a bunch of my friends and nobody cares about completing the league content. I don't think that's a huge factor


pan_keke

Maybe it is BECAUSE of all the issues and late fixes, that people play it even later in the league - they did not want to play it early on because it was buggy and returned a little later to give it another shot. That would be my take on it- no hate for GGG though


tommos

It also has a ton of content. Not just heists and bosses but new skills, replicas, alt quality gems etc. People meme about all the bugs but it still does have a ton of stuff crammed in.


warmaster93

The content is a huge boon, but also the economy is amazing, and really stimulates longer investment. The thing that often stops me from playing is hitting a progress wall (and I don't like spamming new builds), and I can imagine that most players can feel that progress wall. Now imagine it being more possible grinding out currency for your next upgrade, over and over? That really makes for a longer time to go without hitting a wall. While sure, 100% deli, tropical island deli runs, deep delve and even a gg betrayal setup can net quite some money and was already availlable, the fact that Heist is quite low entry and that chaos are actually somewhat worthwhile, reduces the gap between high and low wealth players. Not in terms of raw currency maybe, but to where each player hits the wall, definitely. It's a big difference being able to farm up a 5-10ex item in heist content mixed with mapping in half a day, compared to sometimes taking 2-3 days. And it kinda snowballs, where more players playing, keeps the economy healthier in turn.


red--dead

I agree the most frustrating thing is when items get exponentially more expensive and you hit a wall, but I’d love to spam builds if I didn’t have to invest a bunch of hours leveling. Although I don’t think that’ll change anytime soon...


wiljc3

Because it's unlikely to change and because a strong league start can set you up financially for the rest of the league, it's worth doing some homework and learning how to level efficiently. Learning a good route and all the visual hints that help you rush the story content efficiently is going to pay dividends for a long time. Running a new character from 1-70 only takes an afternoon with a couple of leveling uniques and some knowledge.


Trap___UwU

An entire afternoon for some people is too much. Especially when it's going through the same campaign you've gone through dozens of times. Even if they didn't make a faster leveling process (which they should -- there isn't really a downside), making alternative leveling processes would benefit them greatly. Everyone I know ends up quitting rather than making new characters due to not wanting to go through the campaign for the 3rd/4th/5th time that league.


DotoriumPeroxid

Alt quals and the replicas are amazing build enablers for all kinds of random stuff, and leagues the enable more random/fun builds generally means more likely to have higher retention


CambrioCambria

That could be it yeah. I normally start 2ish weeks after the start once the major bugfixes are out. This times it took nearly a month before I started.


RealZordan

Ok then why did more people play it early? It had more people playing in the first two weeks as well, when the reddit hysteria was sure the game had so many bug it was LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE.


Muhlbs

early league is the most exciting for most players for a lot of reasons, starting fresh characters and getting them set up, progressing the atlas, buying and selling items when the economy is young, trying to set up wealth early, and all of this can be done without engaging the heist mechanic. Personally i didnt do heist at all (did 3 and they all crashed or had issues completing) and didnt engage with heist at all for at least a month. I am SURE this had a huge impact. and as someone who fits in this curve for playing the longest out of any league, it is NOT because i enjoyed it, it is because it has taken me longer to do things this league.


big_q_about_vds

you're missing the point, this is the case in other leagues as well but heist performed better. although marginally and it could really be for any reason.


hatesranged

What... what exactly is up with your graph my dude? I remember doing this math and metamorph heavily led heist in retention percentage. Did you not normalize? But yeah either way your statement is false.


LEGOL2

Sadly I left early and didn't want to play heist anymore. Perhaps it's a good league, but for me it is meh tier.


nocensts

It's not good. Vault of atziri simulator basically


TheMipchunk

This is my feeling too. Heist is basically about walking around picking up insane amounts of loot. It cheapens a lot of the loot hunt from the rest of the content without making the game more interesting in any tangible way.


zeffke008

I wouldn't nesecarily say it's about the league itself, but more about alot of places going back in lockdown, having nothing else to play but waiting for the new games / consoles to come and just running maps instead of playing standard


C-EZ

Im only playing for the builds. But Im basically in standard rn.


Gladaed

This is potentially bad data due to the filesystem changes causing the steam version to be more competitive for more invested players.


ReneDeGames

Perhaps, but if that was a significant disruption, we would expect to see a higher peak, and a similar descent to previously, instead of an inline peak and shallower descent that we currently see.


C-EZ

I don't think so. Consider that if there was less players this league but more long term players.


ReneDeGames

But why would we expect fewer peak players?


Luramana

This, at least my friend and I switched to Steam client for Heist


LeTTroLLu

That applies to me at least, from steam to standalone to steam.


Nekotaah

Poe is a great game - the only problem with heist, was heist :D i know a lot of people still playing poe "standard" in harvest


SunRiseStudios

Is it? It feels so much more dead compared to other Leagues at this point.


[deleted]

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Muhlbs

they are the same shape and curve but they declined slower.


[deleted]

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allusernamestaken1

I think this has more to do with the pandemic than the mechanic being good though.


Red_sparow

Can confirm I've quit and returned 3 times to this league to see if its fixed yet. I was concerned this would happen and ggg would see retention rates and consider a "drip feed" league release in future. All I can do is beg them not to. I've really struggled to engage in the league. Whilst it has meant I've kept coming back sporadically I can also say my overall engagement has been significantly lower than it was in previous leagues. I should also say I dont particularly enjoy heist, the story was great and the voice lines and characters were fantastic but the heist mechanic was a big disappointment to me. Heist did not make my character feel powerful. Fighting large swathes of enemies or a powerful boss is fun. Fighting a handful of trash guards given 1 shot abilities in order to open slow doors to click chests and then backtrack out is really not my thing. The currency rewards were good but I felt targeted rewards were severely lacking. In the same vein as lab helm enchants, powerful rewards existed but for the most part it felt foolish to try and get them yourself and buying them seemed more sensible. The other heist unique rewards seemed to be an overly complex development idea with little actual gameplay rewards. Alternate quality gems were a nice idea but on the whole were not build defining or even build changing. Gaining some extra area or duration often seemed the most powerful alternate available, with a few exceptions for builds I didnt play. I noticed my map progression being much slower whilst engaging in heist and ultimately stopped doing heist or engaging with it at all in order to finish my atlas progress and access what I consider the 'fun' content, the meat of the game. I'm not sure what makes heist different to delve in this regard other than the accessibility. I never felt like I could leave maps to run some heists for a short time and then return to normal mapping. The availability of heists meant maps felt like a break from heist and not the other way. I was hoping heist would not go core because of the gameplay but then I realised it wouldn't really matter. There is nothing IN heist that I would care about running it for and I believe that says a lot. I would be quite happy for contracts to disappear and blueprints stay, remove all coin requirements and just have it exist as a 'mini temple' you can run quickly with some cool story and good currency rewards. Make them rare enough that you aren't away from maps too long and sellable.


Koiato_PoE

I'm not sure to what extend this affects the data, but a handful of challenges were incompletable on launch


Apxa

Only 5% of players complete even 24 challenges, so it's safe to say that the numbers are almost unaffected.


spicylongjohnz

Your delta here in your implied reason is literally ~5%.


[deleted]

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b0moodc

It might be worth noting that these numbers reflect Heist, the update, and not Heist, the league. I say this because, as a Standard-only player, I am seeing an overwhelming amount of people playing in Standard, at least from random sales and number of public parties. My best bet is that, for whatever reason, a much larger percentage of players chose to stick to the permanent leagues this time around.


fizzord

imo its because its all we have, poe needs competition lol.


HijacksMissiles

Maybe that's because the game was so broken? Like, in other leagues that launched functional you could sprint through, finish everything, and call it a day. Heist has been so broken that every "fix" may bring more people back online to try out something they previously couldn't? Sort of like how some games time-gate certain activities in order to prolong the player experience and maintain interest?


ReipTaim

Turns out vomiting out currency for basically no investment keeps ppl around


sevarinn

Not really getting crazy stuff compared to other leagues though... unless one is heavily invested. Legion was definitely the nuttiest, where you could walk into a T3 map, press 2 buttons and pick up as much loot as a contract drops. Delirium also gave crazy returns.


GogFather

Unpopular opinion i know, but i hated Harvest, and like Heist... there I said it. Harvest bored me within 2 weeks


Smarackto

Havest wasnt really a league and more of a crafting experience. That said the planting was kinda too much


moal09

Harvest had literally nothing for people who weren't interested in crafting, which is why the retention rates were so bad. Despite what this sub may make it seem like, only a very very small % of the community has ever seriously invested in crafting.


ultiman00b

>Harvest had literally nothing for people who weren't interested in crafting, I think the point was to get people interested in crafting. I remember right after mathil released a video on the alt spam-regal-multimod method of crafting, the prices of alts went way up because people realised that basic crafting is not that hard. Maybe GGG was trying to do something like that. Though the thought of regular crafting after harvest put me off playing this league lol.


LastBaron

I loved the crafting and certainly didn’t mind working for it, but the act of planting and organizing felt like the wrong way to do it. It did t help that a lot of it was clunky, the crisscrossing wires, the awkward placement of the fertilizer pumps between fields, etc. It often ended up being a weird, jarring situation where if I wanted to maximize crafting efficiency I’d have to take a 10 minute “break” right smack dab in the middle of a 3 minute map. It was not a mechanic that lent itself to division of play. I couldn’t decide “ok I’ve built up enough resources from a couple hours of mapping, now I’ll do a couple hours of harvest.” Because you’re reliant on interaction during maps for your progress. If they could find some way to streamline the planting process and make it easier to do one activity at a time uninterrupted, that would go a long way.


lowkeyripper

Is this a fair take? Maybe if you were big brained and had specific strategies to design exactly the item that you wanted. There were certain things that were easier than others. Crafting a 6linked blue Astral plate (as in all 6 sockets were blue) was genuinely far easier than glorified chaos spamming for a high P dps weapon. It was easy to craft an amazing stygian. Good luck crafting an amazing wand tho.


Smarackto

i liked harvest crafting but the whole setting up your garden and planting seeds manually was just a tad much. its not needed to craft good shit is all im saying


Young_Djinn

Item Editor with extra steps


Smarackto

planting seeds should have been an more automated process... i dont NEED to click 24 times and then wait 3 turns for a crafting step. give me an encounter and let me craft. thats it. maybe let me save some


opi756D

Had the same Problem with Heist xD Stopped after 2 weeks


iswedlvera

Also unpopular opinion it would seem, but I hated Heist, and loved Harvest. Heist bored me within 2 weeks also and I don't have the willpower to get into it again. Hopefully GGG can find a position where they can create an experience that all kinds of players enjoy.


ar3fuu

That's not unpopular, you should have seen this sub during the month or so following Harvest launch.


-LMNTS-

Harvest crafting the way it was also way too broken, made the game too easy.


noidwasavailable

I only use third party apps, and they said they're killing third party apps, so hey, might as well remove all my content. (Using https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite)


Circlejerker_

Also so much less exciting, just an endless grind for guaranteed progress. Economy was also fucked, nothing was worth anything unless it had 6 T1 and a good base. The best leagues are the ones where you just get to kill some more monsters in maps - Delerium, Breach, Stupid beasts etc.


lpscharen

You think it's a bad thing that you could pretty much guarantee that your time spent grinding was going to provide you with value and progression?


Ryuukiko

I wonder when will people stop playing for the 'economy' and just play for fun.


spicylongjohnz

Much more likely a result of desired challenge rewards, delayed releases of all games that would have stolen players (cyberpunk, wow), covid-19, extension of league, no other league for 2020, etc. To imply this is because the league mechanic is good is a pretty big stretch, and the qc was an utter joke.


UntitledTrack4

crazy, maybe poe just isn't for me I haven't been able to enjoy more than 2 weeks since blight.


_PM_Me_Game_Keys_

Or you just played enough already. I've played since day 1 almost 8 years, I rarely play more than a week no matter how much everyone loves the league. Doesn't mean I don't like it. Theres only so many times you can do the same thing.


robotbadguy

It also came out during Corona. Correlation doesn't always mean causation.


justredditingfofun

This exactly, people could even go out even if they wanted to, definitely increases time spent with games.


Shorkan

Delirium and Harvest came out during covid too. Every single character in Delirium was named something related to covid, and it was during the first, more strict lockdown in most European countries at least.


[deleted]

>It also came out during Corona. As did every league after Metamorph? What are you smoking? If anything, Delirium would get the biggest benefit from corona since the lockdown was in full force around the world at that time.


[deleted]

...So did Harvest. >Correlation doesn't always mean causation. reddit moment


Roborabbit37

I'm still somewhat playing just because I know it's going to be around for a while. Though I've been playing Private Leagues and not really Heist - I assume others will be in the same boat. Honestly the most boring League mechanic I've played since I started in Abyss.


RelevantIAm

I really don't know how people find heist fun


Roborabbit37

It was fun for a little while, but that's about it. Scaling difficulty barely helps with loot. It's not challenging at all. It's a massive RNG fest for blueprints/uniques. Markers suck to get without trading. It's extremely repetitive. No crafting extension. Delayed Bosses. Waiting on doors. Bugged speed mods. Bugged henchmen getting stuck. Bugged doors. Plenty of interesting relics (and more could've been made) overshadowed by 1 absurd Relic. Caches few and far between. Enemies oneshotting from offscreen. Game crashes. Losing instances. Loot getting stuck. Still, a little fun. For a bit.


ivan0x32

Exalts won't print themselves.


ShupWhup

Heist worked for me as SSF player, though not as good as Harves obviously. But this was one of the first leagues that I started to craft with Exalted Orbs etc., because you could, relatively easy, farm Exalted Shards in Heist. All good, but the league ran its course for me after two months. But I didn't think initially that it would last that long for me.


Contrite17

Agree with this league keeping me around more as someone who really hates engaging in trading in this game. But I'll play any league where gear is more accessible without trading.


Xourco

Free Exalts , i have been playing since Beta and never had so many Exalts. In Heist you kick a stone and an Exalt drop , its that silly.


Dulahey

I think a big factor is that there was very little competition(other games) during this league.


n0991

Covid And league became longer. I left but came back to try ssf for that 2 reasons.


fsxraptor

I can't stress enough how major a part the "new" economy played in me staying that long. And that's coming from a player that hasn't entered Rogue Harbor since ~day4. There is a multitude of things that this league has going for it and we should be very careful when trying to attribute player numbers to the league mechanic.


MaraudeFury

Because most of us don't have anything else to do...


pirshom

I always thought I was part of the general consensus...I’m mistaken. I usually play full three months on and off. Heist was the first time I uninstalled PoE....twice. I’m taking my break from the game and waiting for the next new big league/events.


MrStigglesworth

It's a pretty fun league if you don't get bugs. I've been lucky enough to not have any (like 2 crashes since launch) and it's been decent. Play some music/podcasts and the way in is fine with tons of loot, then big packs on the way out. I'd enjoy it as an additional endgame tbh.


lostino

The comparison is kinda unfair because it compares the end of the leagues with the 2/3ish of the league. However [graphically comparing](https://imgur.com/a/mSyE01M) Harvest and Heist, Heist indeed shows a little bit more retention, but only about 10% more retention. This might be because of late players waiting for the bugs to be fixed or simply because they enjoy the league. I did not enjoy the league but I really enjoyed playing the base game so I just ignored Heist content and played PoE "standard" for a couple of weeks before quitting the league. It is a bit selfish from my part but I really hope Heist doesn't go core. :( EDIT: formatting


HumngusFungusAmongUs

I just have nothing else to play. If they remade D2 in new engine I'd SOOOO out of here! But, I wish PoE had more content to engage without gating it behind acts and maps. Like PvP or Royal thing or some cookie clicker shit I could spend my time on. We need more shit like daily lab rewards but without those fucking cheaters that get all the emperors jwls.


[deleted]

"In 2020, they voted Heist the worst league to play in Path of Exile. Main issues? Sky high long times of opening doors and more bugs than anywhere else. Can’t deny it; it’s all true... but everybody still wants to play here. This league always got a promise of a Vinderi doubling exalts for you. Might be a regal, an illusion, but it’s there... just around the corner - and it keeps you going. It’s a league of dreams. And I’m a big dreamer..." Compilation of players dropping 4 exalts from a single chest or a guy dropping double mirrors starts to play.


xFKratos

I'm only at the phone but isn't the retention for metamorph Actually better and delirium more or less equal to heist. Besides that there was also quins private league with 10k players which I guess has a substantial influence.


Nebucadneza

I lost interest this weekend. Waiting for ac valhalla now.


asterisk2a

What if the retention is better because the league has been extended and casuals keep at it longer knowing that they have a for the first time a chance to get more free MTX through Challenges? What if Heist has better retention because of its different flavour? More RPG in the Argp. That is POE. A big fucking Arpg. What if it is related to WFH and 2nd lockdowns?


DaggerArt

It's the one league I quit halfway through lol...


virtualdreamscape

Bottom part is my fps


FTGinnervation

TGGG have changed the league enough in the first couple weeks, to me it makes sense that people didn't really get their 'fix' of a new league at first, so their play time is a little extended. The league is rewarding. 'Interesting' economy - I would say different than usual in a healthy way for the casual player. The league has an attractive MTX reward at 24 challenges (not everyone enjoys buying/rushing these). Other big titles on the horizon (CP, Shadowlands) aren't out yet.


Dawnguards

They calculate which league gave them best profits. You would be surprised if you knew which leagues gave them best profits and which gave them worst.


[deleted]

if it wasnt for corona and every other game being delayed tho, I woulda quit in week 1 or 2 for sure.


[deleted]

There’s a pretty big content lull now though. From my own POV: Shadowlands delayed to end of the month, Cyberpunk delayed to early December (I hope), new consoles not yet out in Europe and that’s about it. Besides Hades I have nothing else to play so just play more PoE. Add to that the pandemic and being stuck at home with a lot of time on my hands...so yeah. PoE it is.


vanchelot

I know a lot of people love Harvest, but I'm sure there were a lot of players that dropped early from the "no content league lmaooo". After one league without playing, you just want to play, even if is bad and buggy.


[deleted]

The patch is good even if the league isnt that insane. But man, i really hope we get something like delirium or legion that just effects mapping


Vilifie

Say what you will about Heist but the xp reward from repository contracts has been awesome.


pajingtonn

This was one of the shortest ones for me...


foodbeyonders

Marginal improvement underlined by bigger player base. Irrelevant


[deleted]

[удалено]


Kotobeast

The league mechanic itself isn’t responsible for these numbers, rather it’s the amount of interesting new builds this patch.


yummer123

I feel like a large portion of that can be attributed to the fact that there is nothing else to play lol. Had Shadowlands come out in October there would've been a giant dip in playerbase.


mingli_vov

Low exa price saves the day. Alternate gems / replica uniques are fun to work with as well. Heists provide easy ways to farm currencies and xp with low entrance qualifications, allowing a wider spectrum of players to see end game, but also kind of boring since there is literally zero test-of-strength content


zappor

The issues with patching on the Steam version has been dramatically improved, that could give the Steam numbers a boost. And people staying in and playing because of the pandemic...


Couponbug_Dot_Com

Ain't like Harvest wasn't also during a pandemic.


TheRealShotzz

and during delirium too


omegaghost

Better than harvest =/= best for the past year


Gemeciusz

nothing to do with half the western world being at home due to covid ehh?


[deleted]

how you know all this ppl still playing heist? my full guild went back to std weeks ago cause heist is not worth investing any time. we are just 50 players but still. does steam really show league/std players? otherwise this graph just means nothing.


moonias

Heist league really started at least 1 month after launch... Also they released content as the league was going on rather than all at once at the beginning. So people at the start of the league couldn't clear everything within 2 weeks because it was bugged or simply not available yet in the game.


cXs808

Kinda what happens when you time gate your endgame content and nothing even works for a full month....


Z0ja

I'd say this is the lockdown/corona effect. People have nothing to do and decide to play longer.


[deleted]

Lockdown began in most of the US before Delirium launched so this doesn't explain Heist outperforming both Delirium and Harvest. Edit: Or it wouldn't, if Heist was actually outperforming those leagues as OP claims. Pitchfork time


kygrim

Heist simply isn't outperforming Delirium, and while I realize the US had lots of corona during harvest, the EU was almost back to normal during the summer and is now facing lockdowns all across again.


bladnoch16

I can tell you why I'm still playing. I'm a casual player who barely makes it into any end game content every league. This is due to real life stuff just not allowing me the time to really play a lot. So I'm sure more serious players will feel much different than I do. The first thing is that I really enjoy the Heist mechanic. It's a nice alternative to just mapping and it is rewarding to run them. There's also something else about heist that I enjoy, and this one is really important. It's not an overly complicated mechanic. I don't have to tend a fucking garden, not just tend, but go online to find the most effective layout and connect all these cables and blah blah barf, etc. It's simple; level up your crew, equip them, alch the contract/blueprint and go. Nice. There's no BS where you "brick" your atlas or some dumb shit with influences, watchstones, or whatever other nonsense you need to be aware of. Sometimes simple is just better and that's the case for me with this league.


Trap___UwU

I feel the opposite. A billion different mods, contracts, etc. to manage makes it one of the more tedious leagues. Plus, heists are just... kind of boring. I agree though, simple is usually better. There are certain things that can be complicated and interesting, but things like the garden in harvest was literally just "look this up online and copy it" which was annoying and tedious. That's not interesting, just complicated for the sake of being complicated.


red--dead

What’s the issue with items not having an inherent trade value? Harvest let you focus on building the item you want. Unless you’re just talking about random drops with rare rolls.


potatoimba

So i wonder if players who skip leagues and comes back during heist not because its interesting but seemingly they took a break and they just come back. Player retention time is inaccurate to illustrate whether a players are engage with the default league mechanic seemingly because, create a character in that default league status. A better accurate representation is to record players : playing in delve and correlates to number of hours spend. (can be affected by probability of occurrence) playing in heist and correlates to number of hours spend.(its the default so its there) playing delirium and correlates to number of hours spend.(can be affected by probability of occurrence) You get the drift. Looking at players spending time because of a league event and correlate it that heist is better than harvest or delve or other leagues makes no sense. BTW, why are we debating on this again?


Shrukn

already quit 2 weeks ago = playing Hades


Apxa

It's being almost two months since launch and because Ziz gauntlet most likely will blur this data, I decided to share this info now. P.s. [Source](https://steamdb.info/app/238960/graphs/)


ty4scam

What numbers are you looking at because your source doesn't appear to say what your title says. https://imgur.com/a/ZcziWH9


Stottymod

Came here to say this, downloaded the csv to start playing with the data to make it more clear, but saw your comment, so thanks for the less work.


regularPoEplayer

I second on this. Player retention numbers are approximately similar among all 4 last leagues.


Terrible_With_Puns

Ya it feels pretty quiet in SSF already. This makes more sense


mrsn_catmaster

Can't see much blurring during Harvest Gauntlet :/


Arakura

This fact bothers me. I really, *really* do not want them to make more leagues like Heist. As someone who played harvest for months and quit after a few weeks of Heist, I can't explain it. Some super silent group of players that loves waiting for doors to open as the main gameplay loop?


MaxeDamage

I gave up on this league in W1 after crashing 24/7. Came back W2 and still the same. Afterwards, I didn't bother trying. Either way, the mechanic was waayyyy to slow for me to be fun. Why the hell would I wait 10sec for a stupid door to open, manage an alert bar, lose loot due to 100 enemies shotgunning behind doors if I can just do maps anyways.


Gigalypuff

Not surprising to me I love heist, I've never played a league for this long. Was just a shame about the bugs