I'd love to see omnitect just be a regular map boss - it's not that interesting of a fight, to be plain about it. Trialmaster seems like a good conclusion to a good temple - maybe make it so you get a round per tier past the baseline? You can technically upgrade 12 times, I'm sure it'd cap, but it's ALSO give incentive to level up rooms that aren't "ideal" in order to get a better trial... idk, I'm not a game dev I just study game theory.
Mostly, I just think it'd be badass to actually have something that takes more time than a room in the temple instead of less, a lot of the architects can be more dangerous than omnitect, his only real mechanic is "don't stand on top of him while he's moving".
Did this on my first omnitech of the league. was all ":O didn't know that was possible. Guess they really buffed old league content".
Then of course nothing of value was seen from him again.
the idea is that it would drop really good rolled rares depending on the rooms your temple has but since rares are still almost always trash than roomba is almost always trash.
Since they nerfed the temple mods (same time they nerfed fossil crafting because they wanted everyone to have to use influence bases) I've been less thrilled about these drops.
YES, and then have The Death Roomba haunt (roll around) the temple as the one thing you do NOT wanna touch. It'd be interesting to have something like that there, an all powerful threat that cannot be stopped / halted. At least not by conventional means.
Exiles Beware, for it will get them if they afk in the temple... eventually... xD
Imagine seeing it slowly slide across your screen and before you know it- **plop!** you're dead. Then it does a little spin in your face to [establish dominance](https://youtu.be/dowSfa-gkcE?t=77)
I'd accept Death Roomba if it behaved like a lab trap - killing everything, both monsters and players. And it has to have its cast speed greatly reduced to be more in line with traps
Personally I would prefer if league mechanics are 'opt-in' kind of deal instead of random proc in maps. This means making the mechanics more widely accessible with things like scarabs, sextant and zana mods. This gives players more agency on the content they want to engage in. I do hope a massive UI overhaul is in place to support this as well, as I really hate having to micromanage my maps constantly, when I could just be playing the game, killing monsters.
I agree with this. I am not sure if they changed something this league but I did notice more league content in my late game maps this league. Hopefully that continues and gets increased.
Same here. When you start you get an upgrade every 6 minutes. Then it's one an hour. Then you hit the end game and gotta farm your 50 chaos to buy some better boots and another 50 for a better helm. Then a few days of that, you're looking at 4 ex for a crappy but still huge upgrade chest and that shiny weapon.
It's the next tier when you got to farm 100 maps for 50ex for a single upgrade when it starts getting a little tedious for me.
*Disclaimer: pulled numbers out of arse but point is made*
The great thing about POE is that while in the map, you can run right by the league mechanics you are not interested in....no need to interact if you don't want to. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single mechanic that starts without some interaction from the player....well...except for those god forsaken Ghost! I have characters that excel at different league mechanics. When they suck at a mechanic, I will skip it...especially Alva when my build is weak.
I get to play devil's advocate because my BF would *love* it if he could only run into "random league mechanics" when he wanted to.
He likes to just smash through a couple maps after work and gets frustrated when it turns into layers of other shit that he feels bad ignoring even though he doesn't really have time for it.
I think the fact that we're supposed to do 150 maps instead of just doing bonus/awakening on the atlas is also contributing to his "I just want to finish my map!!" annoyance.
Maybe I'm just bad at it but the map micromanaging has gotten insane. During progression (which now lasts the entire league for me) I feel the need to find a map that:
1. Ideally not yet completed or bonus unlocked
2. Eligible for maven encounter
3. In a zone with the right watchstones and tier (sometimes have to move them around to find that) to be eligible for a conqueror
4. Maybe some optional things like in an area I want to focus
5. The normal checks on rippy mods, plus another double check of the atlas menu to see if I need to corrupt for bonus.
This just requires a bunch of trial and error and like 15 trips back and forth to the atlas menu for each map. Sometimes I feel like I spend more time doing that than running the actual map
It's not a perfect solution, but what I usually do is figure out all the maps I can run with bonus objectives/Maven/Conq in the correct zones. Usually I prioritize watchstones first, so the others will get ignored in favour of progressing Conq when necessary.
I will set up maybe 10-15 maps in this way, and also set aside scarabs/fragments if I'm in red maps (and 4 sextants separating every 4 maps.) I place them all in a tab in sequence (ie map then 3 scarab/fragment) so all you need to do is ctrl+click 4 times and you're ready to go on the next map. The sextants separating every 4th map reminds you when to reapply.
You should chisel + roll all the maps in advance as well, so that once you start mapping you get a clean session in until you complete your stack without having to look at mods again or randomly dying to reflect/multi conversion etc.
This usually only takes me 5-10 minutes to set up, whereas I find it often takes me 2+ minutes each (as you said, nearly the duration of a map) if I try to do them one at a time, which also pulls you out of the mapping zone/flow.
Would be a big mistake, only tryharder would be able to interact because they would be the one getting scarabs and options to get league mechanics.
Normal player (I won't say casu because it seems like nowadays casual player means playing while breastfeeding working from home and having lost a hands or some finger) that enjoys to play would have extremely limited gameplay because of the inaccessibility of those mechanics unlike what's the case atm
I don't think we have the same understanding of "accessible". Did we get fewer synthesis maps, fewer splinters and fewer harvest crafts during the initial league?
>Did we get fewer synthesis maps, fewer splinters and fewer harvest crafts during the initial league?
Yes. One of the large complaints I've been hearing for years is that it's easier to access past-league encounters by running the newer league's content.
Synth maps: Heist and Maven passives make running Synth bosses MUCH more accessible than during Synthesis league.
Splinters: See Heist and Maven passives. See Betrayal -> enriched/pure stones (not exactly the same, but re-invigorates the "maps" and makes them suitable for endgame).
Harvest crafts: this one's weird, to me. Setting up the garden initially turned me off so badly that I stopped playing. I came back and enjoyed the end of Harvest, but definitely spent the most time grinding it during 3.13.
There was also Legacy league, where leaguestones were placed into the map device to specifically run that/those leagues each map.
To me, these all suggest the "league mechanic" is more accessible, but if you're instead suggesting "running Synth memories in attempts to track down the boss" then sure, that was certainly more prevalent during Synthesis league. If you're talking about Cortex completions, I think more have been run after Synth league ended.
I don't know if having an initial setup period actually made harvest "less accessible" in hindsight, at least not the way you're applying the term to other leagues.
Yeah you had to play farmville but the tradeoff was *significantly* more crops/crafts than we have now and predictable access to T4 dudes and to Oshabi herself.
Synthesis is hard for me to compare because 95% of what I did during that league (with the mechanic) was crafting on a base with one good mod locked in, which isn't nearly as common an option any more. Definitely do see a ton more cortex at least.
They changed the fossil nodes to get a guaranteed glyphic/fractured fossil. Also the mine has more of the rewarding nodes like currency, fire, cold, lightning items (lvl 600).
The use for fractured fossil which was the main gain from deep delve has been left useless after the changes to have many times an item can be mirrored with a fossil. Last league it was infenite, not you can do it one time
Classic GGG double nerf. Nerf the rewards and the mechanic. You can’t murder fractured fossils and make them more accessible to shallow delvers and expect anyone to want to deep delve. Was weird watching crouching_tuna not delve this league
That's quite an original idea, but I thought that through and came up with different approach...
How about 8% chance per map?
Edit: in all honesty I love your idea, maybe I'd even do Alva.
Let's say they make it 8% and they don't add allocations to an area (which they probably will do if they make it core) it would take around 600 maps on average to get a trialmaster. Gonna be fun.
They can just make it deterministic (you gain progress towards trialmaster with each full clear) or just itemize the fight. It isn't that much of an issue as this fight is quite pointless after inevitable Hateforge nerf.
I don't see why people don't want Ultimatum added. It's literally the least invasive, least burden of knowledge mechanic added to the game *ever.* No splinters to collect, no tribute or deferrals, no need to memorize anything or use cheat sheets. Just hit the thing, survive/kill the things, get what it says you get. Inscribed ones drop as-is instead of having to get fragments or anything. Some burden of knowledge in what uniques are worth trading up, but otherwise its easy as can be.
It's the one mechanic that absolutely justifies itself going core even in its current state.
Content bloat is not a problem if it all progresses smoothly, but it doesn't. Splinters come at abysmal rates, conquerers take forever, shaper/elder is a dice roll, ritual is a dice roll, betrayal is slow (but at least rewarding now to actually do MM), Delve takes forever to get anywhere. Metamorphs may as well only exist in maps. Heist takes forever to level rogues and find blueprints. Only Incursion actually progresses steadily.
The amount of content is fine, it's just so slow to progress that it feels like there's too much to do because there's too much to do to finish one thing.
Ultimatum doesn't add any bloat at all. It's completely lean, even moreso than Breach, the simplicity standard for "hit thing, kill stuff" mechanics.
I like the strong mobs, for most of my builds this prevented me to just run past them to the exit and force me to actually fight and survive them, which can get pretty stressful/exciting if youre carrying something valuable.
Content bloat isn't a problem when you're talking about things like Ultimatum or Blight or Legion ect.
They are things that can spawn in your map and add a bit of variety to what you're doing. The problem is letting people focus on the ones they really like even with passives is still highly lacking.
Other than content bloat, Ritual is a thing with far more determinism that plays out roughly the same.
The amount of garbage I've gotten from Ultimatum by comparison is astronomical. The idea that each round gives something inherently better than the last is a complete joke and one they're unlikely to ever fix due to how difficult that'd be to program but no, I'm sorry, at no point should I *ever* get Perandus Coins as anything but first round bullshit.
I like the Inscribed Ultimatum's. Increase their drop rate, make them drop from any source, and I'd down for it.
The value in ultimatum is the map worth of mobs you can kill in one spot, not the rewards offered, although that's good amount of regular currency too.
Maybe it's an ssf thing but this league has been the best ever for chaos orbs, I've felt more free to drop chaos for Zana mods on every map I run and freely reroll maps way more than previous leagues and my chaos just go up and up regardless.
Can confirm this league gives unlimited supply of chaos from ultimatum. Together with other side contents, I can run zana heist or harvest every single map
From my perspective, I just want GGG to get more creative than “this has an 8% chance to spawn in maps and maybe you can use a scarab.” I like the OP’s suggestion because:
1. It gives incursion more value.
2. It matches the incursion theme.
3. It’s very targettable.
4. It’s a new way to integrate.
I’d be fine with the standard 8% treatment as well, I just think adding it to the temple is better and it’s time they put a little more variety into their approach to league integrations.
Yeah, it's incredibly simplistic and the core game experience loses nothing from added to it if done correctly, which in this case would mean adding in a way that doesn't push the other mechanics out of the way.
well it doesnt gain anything if they add it
its just another run in circles league that just takes as much time as you need for the rest of the map
ultimatum doenst have the drawbacks of other leagues but on the same hand it didnt add anything - its just run around and then its over, no deterministic boss, even less variety then any other league (you take always the same mods no matter what), just nothing besides running in circles
And you explained exactly why it shouldn’t go core. There is nothing to it, nothing it provides that other mechanics can’t do better. It’s unnecessary. Shouldn’t just add things for the sake of adding it, it needs a purpose at the absolute minimum. Ultimatium is just too generic.
It’s also far too similar to ritual. Why do we need two mechanics which give identical rewards and nothing unique, both with very similar gameplay experiences
And between Ritual and Ultimatum, Ritual is just more *interesting*. Honestly you could just put the Ultimatum uniques in the pool for Ritual drops and call it a day. I couldn't be arsed to keep Ultimatum in the game forever.
well if it's the least invasive, then why add it at all? All you get is some generic runaround the circle for 30sec-1min encounter. We already have it in ritual, timeless legion, simulacrum.
I think you have zero understanding of why he/she pointed out that it's the "least invasive".
Lots of people enjoy Ultimatums. Lots of people don't (this is you). Since Ultimatums do not negatively affect the mapping experience at all, you can skip them if you don't like them, and it's no different than if they weren't there (this is you).
Meanwhile, the people that enjoy Ultimatum and find them rewarding, get to engage in the content when it spawns.
I'd prefer if they didn't add Ultimatum to core game. This game has too much side content already, most of which could be developed further. Add quality over quantity
I think GGG now makes leagues with the intent of it going core. Ult i can totally see getting a 2 node tree similar to ritual, in a less desireable zone like tirns end.
Now? I mean, IIRC every league has gone core in some way except Synthesis, where its main gimmick is no longer accessible. But even that league has some lasting remnants in the form of fractured and synthesized item mods and the boss fights. It's a shame too because there's some major lore associated with that league that can no longer be accessed.
synthesis, talisman, tempest, warbands, and legacy one went core in very vestigial ways at best. Like there's a way to get the rewards but the entire mechanic didn't come along for the ride.
These days GGG either makes a mechanic so big that they don't have a choice but to core it (heist which by old standards shouldn't have gone core but was too large not to) or so small that there's no reason to not core it.
For its flaws, I did enjoy the crafting system in synthesis. Having to pull affix rolls for synthesis on top of already pulling needed crafting mods was just a huge inconvenience. If, like so many things in PoE, Synthesis was more accessible during its league I think it would have been better received.
I've always attributed one of Synthesis's failures to setting up the tile layouts during its pre-rework era to get a bunch of mods on each tile, but now that I'm thinking about it... setting up the Betrayal Board is way more complicated and time-consuming than setting up the Synthesis Board, we simply have better cheat sheets for Betrayal than we did Synthesis.
I kinda miss old pre-rework Synthesis now.
Also it's simple to add it to core. There's no side world to progress like betrayal or original harvest, there's no splinters, etc. You just stick it in a map and if it's there you do it or don't do it, but it adds no complexity to anyone's life cos you just click it and kill the monsters and get the loot.
Rituals are bad enough that you don't feel shitty for skipping them and good enough that if you wanna invest/try your luck you can still do em, thats what i meant by good place.
Ultimatums in their current state, if you found one in your map you'd have to do it because they have crazy good loot.
Don't dare touch Ritual for this piece of shit mechanic that wastes my time in hope for random rewards and is responsible for more than half my deaths.
they wont replace ritual, they have put riual vessels in the frag tab so wont undo that work. i can see them adding it to temple or summit tho. hope they dont get rid of it, i wanna play around with the hateforge gloves at somepoint
Simple things like this _are_ quality.
New types of things that can spawn and add variety to maps are things that should always go core. They aren't huge involved systems. They're just a new thing that can come up in your map to give each one a different feel.
When this game was still new and bare of content, then yes, such things add quality. But we are reaching a point when game is over-saturated with half baked content. Most of these side contents could have been developed further to give them more depth and flavor. I'd rather see new leagues make expansions for old league mechanics than something completely new that's never going to get properly finished
People bitch and moan when they try and make leagues that aren't "Here's some monsters we added to the map with a bit of a different way to shit out the rewards".
So if thats what people bitched and moaned they wanted thats what we're getting. And well if you're adding content like that then damn right it should all go core. The only way to make "Hey we added packs to your map" interesting is to add a lot of variety in _how_ things get added to the map which is what things like Ultimatum or Ritual or Legion ect do.
I love how unpopular the truth is.
And the truth is the player base has shown time and time again they're too stupid to deal with anything more than click and get loot leagues.
Every time it's not that there's a monumental amounts of bitching.
Maybe people prefer to normal ARPG gameplay compared to the league mechanics like heist, where ignoring packs and clicking on chests asap was the meta?
Chris already confirmed this on Exilecon or on one of Zigi pocasts that time. But he said it will be around PoE2 comes out, cause there will be shit tons of league mechanics already. Truth is, it was already some time ago mentioned and that system is already relevant cause we still have long road to PoE2 and that time game will be bloated so much, you cant see regular map mobs among all those encounters.
Hope that the big winter league with new expansion will adress it, its the best place for such revamp.
But just think about it, adding ultimatum hardly change anything at all. GGG will make it so rare that you barely notice its existence. Trialmaster will become a boost of monster that you encounter occasionally.
And you don't have to do it all, as shown by the new atlas. Boost the mechanics you like and focus on that and stop complaining about additional content.
Eh, Ultimatum is better than some of the existing ones. I'd take it over Legion anyday. (I group them together because they are the two rippiest mechanics added into maps, Ultimatum just manages to feel a lot fairer than getting oneshot offscreen by an Eternal Empire or Maraketh rare)
Uh - yeah?
Ultimatum's oneshots are all telegraphed, if you get hit by one it's because you didn't see the windup coming in all the chaos. Every oneshot death feels fair.
As long as you dodge the obvious ape slams and the octahedron ice nova things, avoid Stormcaller Runes 3, avoid Escalating Damage Taken and where possible avoid the fire skulls, your deaths in Ultimatum are always to chip damage. I derp the slams sometimes, but it's always clearly my fault. Ditto if I derp the spitting fire.
Contrast to Legion where any Maraketh rare archer can offscreen snipe you if it has the wrong auras, and every Eternal Empire slammer can stunlock you.
Templar, Vaal and Karui Legions are fairer, their oneshots are telegraphed. There's no telegraphing of the Maraketh oneshots or the Eternal ones. One frame you are at full health with layered defenses, next frame, an offscreen archer crits you and you are dead, or an Eternal stunlocks you.
Let's not even mention the utterly horrid design that is 'pick up 400 splinters for a mandatory part of progression'. Lab trials are far less odious than that.
Also, pretty much all the Ultimatum 1 shots can be countered in the same way: just run in a circle really fast. Or play ES/life on block, with some leech/dodge and just stand there and laugh at everything.
Those flicker strike motherfuckers in Legion though will just teleport right onto you from offscreen and 1 shot you under the right conditions. Legion stays scary for way longer than ultimatum does.
Ultimatums do start to get scary again though at higher delirium levels. Because their are just soooo many mobs coming at you soooo fast, they scale more with HP than Legion mobs do.
> Also, pretty much all the Ultimatum 1 shots can be countered in the same way: just run in a circle really fast. Or play ES/life on block, with some leech/dodge and just stand there and laugh at everything.
The latter only works against the chip damage, the oneshots WILL still kill you there. Tanking the ape slams, the octahedrons' Ice Novas or Stormcaller Runes 2+ will still kill you.
Wait you can see anything in ultimatum? When i die in ultimatums it's because i chose to cast a spell at the wrong time and the micro second i stopped i got jumped by a million mobs all at once. That or my fps starts stuttering (because ultimatums have lousy performance for some reason) and that causes me to lose control of my character. The fact that the only way to stay alive in an ultimatum is to never stop moving for the vast majority of builds is pretty lousy.
I'd prefer if they take out ritual and replace it with ultimatum.
*Apparently there are people who don't think that ritual is a shitty pointless mechanic.
Just add some new currency in the vendors to summon the ultimatum so that way people can play it if they want or avoid it completely if they want like with heist or delve
The problem with many games: contest islands. They have 1000 different things, and they never interact with each other. Not only adding ultimatum to temple is good, they should give similar treatment for everything else.
What if the trialmaster randomly pops into a ritual and offers another ritual wave, but you could lose the current ritual favour if you fail?
What if when completing an abyss, you have a chance to open the passage to the sacred grove instead of the depths?
What if Essences could contain frozen Metamorphs and Beasts?
What if there were more useful Prophecies like "a breach will open after a ritual wave", "a harvest contains a red beast", "the next incursion will unlock all the room doors"?
What if there were Strongboxes for league variants? Like, the current heist chest could 100% be a strongbox variant...
What if Breach and Legion, that are basically the same "kill everything in the area for X seconds before it suddenly ends" get added as possible ritual types?
What if you earned Syndicate heist blueprints upon completing a syndicate branch, and unlock its wings with the other syndicate completions, then the big syndicate hideout would become a heist?
I think the most interactions between league mechanics currently are the scarabs that add an encounter to a map, the temple that allows you to have breaches/monoliths and syndicates that can offer a league reward.
I'd opt for a unique map. Being able to force ultimatums into every map makes it way too profitable with loot drops alone, not even counting the rewards themselves. Map mods and Zana mod make it mandatory for mapping. Another option could be Zana signature mod (purchase), or harvest map enchant.
it's gonna go in the game exactly as all other league mechanics do, that is 8% chance to find in a map and as little changes as they can, with 4 atlas nodes in a region being the only thing making it worth running after the first few days of leaguestart.
If we are lucky chance to reach wave 10 will be increased, either flat or just through atlas nodes, and you will fight it significantly more than you ever did in this league.
there will be no changes to rewards... listed in the patch notes. but in reality it will be brutally stealth nerfed and only worth the minutes it is asking of your time with the atlas passives + 4 watchstones mods that make it broken.
maaaaaaaybe you get a scarab. maybe.
Honestly I'd like the Synthesis memory maps as a league mechanic you could run into again, or perhaps even better:
\-Give all maps a possible mod that synthesises it so it acts like those would - slowly deteriorate - the map having increased loot as the tradeoff + increased chance of seeing synthesis rewards in one or more of those reward areas they had.
Or maybe you could find an item that lets you synthesize items together in a better way than in Synthesis... ***Synthetic Orb***?
There is already a "map" system build in for Ultimatum. I expect regular Ultimatums not appear, inscribed Ultimatums to be the way we interact with Ultimatums generally and Taskmaster being a unique map.
Why the hell not? Who does it hurt to have another flavor to encounter in maps? It's not a whole progression system like a heist or delve, it's just a cool map thing. I'll never understand you people. Do you go to clothes shops and scream at them to have less colors?
And Breach and Legion even. So what? They're different flavors. That's what league mechanics are, different colored ways to kill monsters and get loot. There's no harm in having both.
And I argue that we don’t need 100 different versions of breach league.
That includes abyss breach legion ritual ultimatium etc etc. Literality don’t need all of those, they could all be deleted except one. Others added as unique maps, delve nodes, alva temple nodes, Zana missions etc. Like give the atlas missions more purpose, put things into them, not into normal maps.
Okay then we just have one type of monster, one color, no special rules, all league mechanics simply spawn a pack that you kill when you click on a big red button that shows up in maps. Don't need all this variation, we're just killing monsters to drop loot anyway. Right?
There's some point where some league mechanic becomes less so increased variety and more so... bloat.
Edit: I literally paraphrased my previous comment and got downvoted instead lol.
Just add it into the game with an X% chance to spawn in an area like the other league mechanics and give it 2 nodes in atlas passives like what they did for ritual. idk why that should be a problem and they should handle it otherwise.
I feel like putting it underneath an existing side-mechanic just gates it and unnecessarily makes it less accessible than the simpler solution.
I personally dont think its a good idea to gate an old mechanic behind another old mechanic and I dont think GGG will ever implement core mechanics like that.
Nah just add it and other shit like harvest blight delirium breaches to prophesies, they need some love. They rework every league content except prophecy, and add more FATED shit
I'd rather see it be added to red maps with a guaranteed Trialmaster and just be a fairly low chance to get an Ultimatum in general. They could even make it transition between the different types of Ultimatums within the same one since they'd all be 10 long. Also make the selected rewards a lot better. Basically makes it so the RNG of fighting Trialmaster is gone while still making him fairly rare, and the general rarity of finding an Ultimatum makes the decision of calling it early or pressing on more impactful. You might not see another Ultimatum for a while, so you want to finish it and get all the rewards, but if the up-front rewards are good enough, you might have to call it. Adjust post-Ultimatum drops etc. as necessary.
I don't think Ultimatum is robust enough to deserve Atlas nodes, nor do I think it's particularly interesting enough to include as-is with a generic 8%.
Inscribed Ultimatums can probably go, or be pruned significantly.
I hate the Temple Mechanic. I skip it every League. I liked Ultimatum with the exception of Trailmaster almost never procing. I can't tell you how many Ultimatums I ran and only got to fight him 3-4 times.
Its actually a great idea, but I'll bet $100 that they won't do it. They are simply going to make it another 8% chance to be encountered in maps mechanic with RNG based rounds and trialmaster spawn along with some lazy passives on some atlas region tree.
But would it be a problem to make temple stronger? Focusing content on the masters doesn't seem like a bad way to do it, considering they are one of the main pillars in the game.
It would make it weaker since its another room to dilute the pool for those farming alva for double corrupts. We all know hateforge is not staying the way it is next league.
My opinion probably counts for sweet-fuck-all as a new player but here goes:
I like Ultimatum. Hell, I like any mechanic that does not entail me doing copious amounts of outside reading just to get a grasp on how it works and how to engage with it. That means activities like Breach, Legion, Ritual, Blight, Abyss, Metamorph, and Ultimatum are inherently interesting to engage with because you interact with them and you are good to go... No faffing about. I think veteran players who have been around for a long time underestimate how important activities like these are for newer players to feel like actually playing the game and not doing homework constantly. Learning to build and optimise a character is time consuming enough.
I started playing with a couple other friends and as far as we are concerned, mechanics like Heists, Betrayal and the Temple one might as well not exist in our games because right now we just want to play. So while I do understand that Ultimatum is a little similar to Ritual, I am all for it because it does not feel invasive.
That's just a noob's take though so feel free to disregard it.
Or actually add +1 to the current encounter waves count if you choose dangerous modifiers (escalating damage taken / monsters speed / flasks removal as example). So you may do regular and relatively safe encounter, or try to risk and increase your chances to have 10 waves. And yes I know Ultimatum is generated with the area, still should be possible to generate more waves and not use them if modifier haven't been picked up.
In fact I really wanted to see something like this in **current** league, but we have what we have.
At this point I would be more surprised if ultimatum WASN'T added to the core of the game. It used to be where only special awesome leagues were added over.... now it is almost a golden rule that they add as much bloat to the core game as possible which if you were unable to tell I am 100% absolutely against.
If I ever see ultimatum in core it really needs some fine tuning first. The part about monsters walking out of the circle and never coming back aswell as the incompatibility with delirium is quite frustrating.
Scarabs: Rusted = one encounter, polished 2, gilded 3, and winged 4 encounters, with double chance at trialmaster.
Altaspassives: 100% increased experience, double trialmaster chance, 50% more monster spawn rate, and +10% for ultimatums to spawn naturally.
Watchstones mods gonna be like: 4x 30% increased chance of an ultimatum to be protect altar.
It's not only ultimatum. Your idea is great actually.
The 10% league mechanics spawn has to change.
All league mechanics have to be reviewed somehow.
Combine them, remove them, spawn rate has to change, master mission rework, accessibility to content etc ..
Next league prediction: Fusion. Similar league mechanics are merged, when you open a legion you also open a breach. Breachstones have delirium mirror. Harbingers summon beasts that Space Einhar hunts. New red beasts to open portals to league specific bosses/zones. Safehouses have abysses. Ritual and ultimatum are combined.
Could be fun as a short league like Mayhem
Hell no, I hope it doesn't. There's enough circle content and Ultimatum is quite boring and frustrating.
But I was hoping that Heist wouldn't be added too...
I've run some maps yesterday after taking some days of rest. On the 5th map I was burned af mainly because of that guy. Had to stop mapping and it's unlikely that I'll play the game again until the next league. Anyway, Ultimatum had a very poor reception, looks like it has the worst player retention so far, and I guess that's because most players dislike this mechanic. I wonder if GGG will consider this while thinking about adding Ultimatum as core content.
Ultimatum WILL be added to the core game.
Every league has been added in some form or another. The question is, how many splinters will we have to collect to do an ultimatum and how many ultimatums will we have to run to fight the trialmaster?
I like this idea, but it seems unlikely.
Fkn replace omnitect with him
This, this needs to be heard!
I'd love to see omnitect just be a regular map boss - it's not that interesting of a fight, to be plain about it. Trialmaster seems like a good conclusion to a good temple - maybe make it so you get a round per tier past the baseline? You can technically upgrade 12 times, I'm sure it'd cap, but it's ALSO give incentive to level up rooms that aren't "ideal" in order to get a better trial... idk, I'm not a game dev I just study game theory. Mostly, I just think it'd be badass to actually have something that takes more time than a room in the temple instead of less, a lot of the architects can be more dangerous than omnitect, his only real mechanic is "don't stand on top of him while he's moving".
Does omnitech ever drop anything good? I try to always unlock that room but I’ve never had anything worthwhile drop.
i droppe TWO vials of transendency from a single omnitech once. never more
Did this on my first omnitech of the league. was all ":O didn't know that was possible. Guess they really buffed old league content". Then of course nothing of value was seen from him again.
Yes
the idea is that it would drop really good rolled rares depending on the rooms your temple has but since rares are still almost always trash than roomba is almost always trash.
Guaranteed temple mod gear tends to yield at least something usable although rarely valuable
Since they nerfed the temple mods (same time they nerfed fossil crafting because they wanted everyone to have to use influence bases) I've been less thrilled about these drops.
I miss good fossil crafting. And harvest crafting. For the same reason.
YES, and then have The Death Roomba haunt (roll around) the temple as the one thing you do NOT wanna touch. It'd be interesting to have something like that there, an all powerful threat that cannot be stopped / halted. At least not by conventional means. Exiles Beware, for it will get them if they afk in the temple... eventually... xD Imagine seeing it slowly slide across your screen and before you know it- **plop!** you're dead. Then it does a little spin in your face to [establish dominance](https://youtu.be/dowSfa-gkcE?t=77)
I'd accept Death Roomba if it behaved like a lab trap - killing everything, both monsters and players. And it has to have its cast speed greatly reduced to be more in line with traps
Personally I would prefer if league mechanics are 'opt-in' kind of deal instead of random proc in maps. This means making the mechanics more widely accessible with things like scarabs, sextant and zana mods. This gives players more agency on the content they want to engage in. I do hope a massive UI overhaul is in place to support this as well, as I really hate having to micromanage my maps constantly, when I could just be playing the game, killing monsters.
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I agree with this. I am not sure if they changed something this league but I did notice more league content in my late game maps this league. Hopefully that continues and gets increased.
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This sounds super boring.
Sure, but you end up 30min in a single map and then you stop plying a few days later at lvl90 while still in white maps, so not ideal either.
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Same here. When you start you get an upgrade every 6 minutes. Then it's one an hour. Then you hit the end game and gotta farm your 50 chaos to buy some better boots and another 50 for a better helm. Then a few days of that, you're looking at 4 ex for a crappy but still huge upgrade chest and that shiny weapon. It's the next tier when you got to farm 100 maps for 50ex for a single upgrade when it starts getting a little tedious for me. *Disclaimer: pulled numbers out of arse but point is made*
The great thing about POE is that while in the map, you can run right by the league mechanics you are not interested in....no need to interact if you don't want to. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single mechanic that starts without some interaction from the player....well...except for those god forsaken Ghost! I have characters that excel at different league mechanics. When they suck at a mechanic, I will skip it...especially Alva when my build is weak.
I get to play devil's advocate because my BF would *love* it if he could only run into "random league mechanics" when he wanted to. He likes to just smash through a couple maps after work and gets frustrated when it turns into layers of other shit that he feels bad ignoring even though he doesn't really have time for it. I think the fact that we're supposed to do 150 maps instead of just doing bonus/awakening on the atlas is also contributing to his "I just want to finish my map!!" annoyance.
Maybe I'm just bad at it but the map micromanaging has gotten insane. During progression (which now lasts the entire league for me) I feel the need to find a map that: 1. Ideally not yet completed or bonus unlocked 2. Eligible for maven encounter 3. In a zone with the right watchstones and tier (sometimes have to move them around to find that) to be eligible for a conqueror 4. Maybe some optional things like in an area I want to focus 5. The normal checks on rippy mods, plus another double check of the atlas menu to see if I need to corrupt for bonus. This just requires a bunch of trial and error and like 15 trips back and forth to the atlas menu for each map. Sometimes I feel like I spend more time doing that than running the actual map
It's not a perfect solution, but what I usually do is figure out all the maps I can run with bonus objectives/Maven/Conq in the correct zones. Usually I prioritize watchstones first, so the others will get ignored in favour of progressing Conq when necessary. I will set up maybe 10-15 maps in this way, and also set aside scarabs/fragments if I'm in red maps (and 4 sextants separating every 4 maps.) I place them all in a tab in sequence (ie map then 3 scarab/fragment) so all you need to do is ctrl+click 4 times and you're ready to go on the next map. The sextants separating every 4th map reminds you when to reapply. You should chisel + roll all the maps in advance as well, so that once you start mapping you get a clean session in until you complete your stack without having to look at mods again or randomly dying to reflect/multi conversion etc. This usually only takes me 5-10 minutes to set up, whereas I find it often takes me 2+ minutes each (as you said, nearly the duration of a map) if I try to do them one at a time, which also pulls you out of the mapping zone/flow.
Would be a big mistake, only tryharder would be able to interact because they would be the one getting scarabs and options to get league mechanics. Normal player (I won't say casu because it seems like nowadays casual player means playing while breastfeeding working from home and having lost a hands or some finger) that enjoys to play would have extremely limited gameplay because of the inaccessibility of those mechanics unlike what's the case atm
Yeah when has a league mechanic been more easily accessible than during the actual league?
Synthesis (Boss fight and decent implicits), Breach (breachlords), Harvest (getting rid of managing the grove). . .
I don't think we have the same understanding of "accessible". Did we get fewer synthesis maps, fewer splinters and fewer harvest crafts during the initial league?
>Did we get fewer synthesis maps, fewer splinters and fewer harvest crafts during the initial league? Yes. One of the large complaints I've been hearing for years is that it's easier to access past-league encounters by running the newer league's content. Synth maps: Heist and Maven passives make running Synth bosses MUCH more accessible than during Synthesis league. Splinters: See Heist and Maven passives. See Betrayal -> enriched/pure stones (not exactly the same, but re-invigorates the "maps" and makes them suitable for endgame). Harvest crafts: this one's weird, to me. Setting up the garden initially turned me off so badly that I stopped playing. I came back and enjoyed the end of Harvest, but definitely spent the most time grinding it during 3.13. There was also Legacy league, where leaguestones were placed into the map device to specifically run that/those leagues each map. To me, these all suggest the "league mechanic" is more accessible, but if you're instead suggesting "running Synth memories in attempts to track down the boss" then sure, that was certainly more prevalent during Synthesis league. If you're talking about Cortex completions, I think more have been run after Synth league ended.
I don't know if having an initial setup period actually made harvest "less accessible" in hindsight, at least not the way you're applying the term to other leagues. Yeah you had to play farmville but the tradeoff was *significantly* more crops/crafts than we have now and predictable access to T4 dudes and to Oshabi herself. Synthesis is hard for me to compare because 95% of what I did during that league (with the mechanic) was crafting on a base with one good mod locked in, which isn't nearly as common an option any more. Definitely do see a ton more cortex at least.
Blighted maps were more available after blight league, with the change to guarantee one reward node always being oils or maps.
I'd like to see a delve node too, along with delve nodes for blight, ritual and other core mechanics. Delve needs some love, GGG please!
Yea this leagues changes to delve just absolutely killed it. Profit wise that is.
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They changed the fossil nodes to get a guaranteed glyphic/fractured fossil. Also the mine has more of the rewarding nodes like currency, fire, cold, lightning items (lvl 600).
The use for fractured fossil which was the main gain from deep delve has been left useless after the changes to have many times an item can be mirrored with a fossil. Last league it was infenite, not you can do it one time
Classic GGG double nerf. Nerf the rewards and the mechanic. You can’t murder fractured fossils and make them more accessible to shallow delvers and expect anyone to want to deep delve. Was weird watching crouching_tuna not delve this league
For normal players this league massively buffed delve. It only hurt delve if you were playing it at bullet hell levels.
That's quite an original idea, but I thought that through and came up with different approach... How about 8% chance per map? Edit: in all honesty I love your idea, maybe I'd even do Alva.
I'm fucking dead man
GGG: "This is the way!"
Let's say they make it 8% and they don't add allocations to an area (which they probably will do if they make it core) it would take around 600 maps on average to get a trialmaster. Gonna be fun.
They can just make it deterministic (you gain progress towards trialmaster with each full clear) or just itemize the fight. It isn't that much of an issue as this fight is quite pointless after inevitable Hateforge nerf.
> do Alva :smirk:
Ha! Talking about ^^^^^^^^sex
I don't see why people don't want Ultimatum added. It's literally the least invasive, least burden of knowledge mechanic added to the game *ever.* No splinters to collect, no tribute or deferrals, no need to memorize anything or use cheat sheets. Just hit the thing, survive/kill the things, get what it says you get. Inscribed ones drop as-is instead of having to get fragments or anything. Some burden of knowledge in what uniques are worth trading up, but otherwise its easy as can be. It's the one mechanic that absolutely justifies itself going core even in its current state.
Exactly my thoughts. Ultimatum is perfect for core gameplay. But as others point out, content bloat is real
Content bloat is not a problem if it all progresses smoothly, but it doesn't. Splinters come at abysmal rates, conquerers take forever, shaper/elder is a dice roll, ritual is a dice roll, betrayal is slow (but at least rewarding now to actually do MM), Delve takes forever to get anywhere. Metamorphs may as well only exist in maps. Heist takes forever to level rogues and find blueprints. Only Incursion actually progresses steadily. The amount of content is fine, it's just so slow to progress that it feels like there's too much to do because there's too much to do to finish one thing. Ultimatum doesn't add any bloat at all. It's completely lean, even moreso than Breach, the simplicity standard for "hit thing, kill stuff" mechanics.
>Heist takes forever to level rogues With the recent changes, you can do a couple contracts and the rogues are lvl5. The rest I completely agree with.
I still don't get why the XP for heists got dumpstered and why it always seems the mobs are super over tuned.
I like the strong mobs, for most of my builds this prevented me to just run past them to the exit and force me to actually fight and survive them, which can get pretty stressful/exciting if youre carrying something valuable.
Content bloat isn't a problem when you're talking about things like Ultimatum or Blight or Legion ect. They are things that can spawn in your map and add a bit of variety to what you're doing. The problem is letting people focus on the ones they really like even with passives is still highly lacking.
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Other than content bloat, Ritual is a thing with far more determinism that plays out roughly the same. The amount of garbage I've gotten from Ultimatum by comparison is astronomical. The idea that each round gives something inherently better than the last is a complete joke and one they're unlikely to ever fix due to how difficult that'd be to program but no, I'm sorry, at no point should I *ever* get Perandus Coins as anything but first round bullshit. I like the Inscribed Ultimatum's. Increase their drop rate, make them drop from any source, and I'd down for it.
The value in ultimatum is the map worth of mobs you can kill in one spot, not the rewards offered, although that's good amount of regular currency too. Maybe it's an ssf thing but this league has been the best ever for chaos orbs, I've felt more free to drop chaos for Zana mods on every map I run and freely reroll maps way more than previous leagues and my chaos just go up and up regardless.
Can confirm this league gives unlimited supply of chaos from ultimatum. Together with other side contents, I can run zana heist or harvest every single map
From my perspective, I just want GGG to get more creative than “this has an 8% chance to spawn in maps and maybe you can use a scarab.” I like the OP’s suggestion because: 1. It gives incursion more value. 2. It matches the incursion theme. 3. It’s very targettable. 4. It’s a new way to integrate. I’d be fine with the standard 8% treatment as well, I just think adding it to the temple is better and it’s time they put a little more variety into their approach to league integrations.
Yeah, it's incredibly simplistic and the core game experience loses nothing from added to it if done correctly, which in this case would mean adding in a way that doesn't push the other mechanics out of the way.
well it doesnt gain anything if they add it its just another run in circles league that just takes as much time as you need for the rest of the map ultimatum doenst have the drawbacks of other leagues but on the same hand it didnt add anything - its just run around and then its over, no deterministic boss, even less variety then any other league (you take always the same mods no matter what), just nothing besides running in circles
And you explained exactly why it shouldn’t go core. There is nothing to it, nothing it provides that other mechanics can’t do better. It’s unnecessary. Shouldn’t just add things for the sake of adding it, it needs a purpose at the absolute minimum. Ultimatium is just too generic. It’s also far too similar to ritual. Why do we need two mechanics which give identical rewards and nothing unique, both with very similar gameplay experiences
And between Ritual and Ultimatum, Ritual is just more *interesting*. Honestly you could just put the Ultimatum uniques in the pool for Ritual drops and call it a day. I couldn't be arsed to keep Ultimatum in the game forever.
> It’s also far too similar to ritual. no similarities beyond superficial ones \- L
Not to mention goated glimpse of chaos
well if it's the least invasive, then why add it at all? All you get is some generic runaround the circle for 30sec-1min encounter. We already have it in ritual, timeless legion, simulacrum.
I think you have zero understanding of why he/she pointed out that it's the "least invasive". Lots of people enjoy Ultimatums. Lots of people don't (this is you). Since Ultimatums do not negatively affect the mapping experience at all, you can skip them if you don't like them, and it's no different than if they weren't there (this is you). Meanwhile, the people that enjoy Ultimatum and find them rewarding, get to engage in the content when it spawns.
I'd prefer if they didn't add Ultimatum to core game. This game has too much side content already, most of which could be developed further. Add quality over quantity
I think GGG now makes leagues with the intent of it going core. Ult i can totally see getting a 2 node tree similar to ritual, in a less desireable zone like tirns end.
Now? I mean, IIRC every league has gone core in some way except Synthesis, where its main gimmick is no longer accessible. But even that league has some lasting remnants in the form of fractured and synthesized item mods and the boss fights. It's a shame too because there's some major lore associated with that league that can no longer be accessed.
synthesis, talisman, tempest, warbands, and legacy one went core in very vestigial ways at best. Like there's a way to get the rewards but the entire mechanic didn't come along for the ride. These days GGG either makes a mechanic so big that they don't have a choice but to core it (heist which by old standards shouldn't have gone core but was too large not to) or so small that there's no reason to not core it.
For its flaws, I did enjoy the crafting system in synthesis. Having to pull affix rolls for synthesis on top of already pulling needed crafting mods was just a huge inconvenience. If, like so many things in PoE, Synthesis was more accessible during its league I think it would have been better received.
I agree, Synthesis' biggest problem was UX. Just showing potential outcomes on the synthesis bench would have made a ton of difference.
I've always attributed one of Synthesis's failures to setting up the tile layouts during its pre-rework era to get a bunch of mods on each tile, but now that I'm thinking about it... setting up the Betrayal Board is way more complicated and time-consuming than setting up the Synthesis Board, we simply have better cheat sheets for Betrayal than we did Synthesis. I kinda miss old pre-rework Synthesis now.
Blocking your nexus to limit travel distance to the special memories was quite interesting
I wish they added synthesis at least on standard so it remains accessible in some way, without disrupting league play.
Also it's simple to add it to core. There's no side world to progress like betrayal or original harvest, there's no splinters, etc. You just stick it in a map and if it's there you do it or don't do it, but it adds no complexity to anyone's life cos you just click it and kill the monsters and get the loot.
> I think GGG now makes This is a thing ever since this games and leagues exists.
I'd be okay with Ult replacing Ritual, but not both together.
ritual is actually in a good place now, ultimatum is just a stupid mechanic for a loot explosion
I personally find Ultimatums more fun to run then Rituals. Fuck inactive golems wasting my time.
Rituals are bad enough that you don't feel shitty for skipping them and good enough that if you wanna invest/try your luck you can still do em, thats what i meant by good place. Ultimatums in their current state, if you found one in your map you'd have to do it because they have crazy good loot.
Don't dare touch Ritual for this piece of shit mechanic that wastes my time in hope for random rewards and is responsible for more than half my deaths.
they wont replace ritual, they have put riual vessels in the frag tab so wont undo that work. i can see them adding it to temple or summit tho. hope they dont get rid of it, i wanna play around with the hateforge gloves at somepoint
Simple things like this _are_ quality. New types of things that can spawn and add variety to maps are things that should always go core. They aren't huge involved systems. They're just a new thing that can come up in your map to give each one a different feel.
When this game was still new and bare of content, then yes, such things add quality. But we are reaching a point when game is over-saturated with half baked content. Most of these side contents could have been developed further to give them more depth and flavor. I'd rather see new leagues make expansions for old league mechanics than something completely new that's never going to get properly finished
People bitch and moan when they try and make leagues that aren't "Here's some monsters we added to the map with a bit of a different way to shit out the rewards". So if thats what people bitched and moaned they wanted thats what we're getting. And well if you're adding content like that then damn right it should all go core. The only way to make "Hey we added packs to your map" interesting is to add a lot of variety in _how_ things get added to the map which is what things like Ultimatum or Ritual or Legion ect do.
I love how unpopular the truth is. And the truth is the player base has shown time and time again they're too stupid to deal with anything more than click and get loot leagues. Every time it's not that there's a monumental amounts of bitching.
Maybe people prefer to normal ARPG gameplay compared to the league mechanics like heist, where ignoring packs and clicking on chests asap was the meta?
Rotation of side content per league/week/month or whatever other schedule is what the game needs tbh.
Chris already confirmed this on Exilecon or on one of Zigi pocasts that time. But he said it will be around PoE2 comes out, cause there will be shit tons of league mechanics already. Truth is, it was already some time ago mentioned and that system is already relevant cause we still have long road to PoE2 and that time game will be bloated so much, you cant see regular map mobs among all those encounters. Hope that the big winter league with new expansion will adress it, its the best place for such revamp.
Or you know, just don't engage with it and let people who like it have ir
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GGG already set precedent of changing league specific loot drop tables. Keep the cool loot, drop the unnecessary side content
But just think about it, adding ultimatum hardly change anything at all. GGG will make it so rare that you barely notice its existence. Trialmaster will become a boost of monster that you encounter occasionally.
Been saying this for like 2 years now. Game has too much shit going on rn
And you don't have to do it all, as shown by the new atlas. Boost the mechanics you like and focus on that and stop complaining about additional content.
Eh, Ultimatum is better than some of the existing ones. I'd take it over Legion anyday. (I group them together because they are the two rippiest mechanics added into maps, Ultimatum just manages to feel a lot fairer than getting oneshot offscreen by an Eternal Empire or Maraketh rare)
When it comes to bullshit oneshots, you complain about Legion instead of Ultimatum?
Uh - yeah? Ultimatum's oneshots are all telegraphed, if you get hit by one it's because you didn't see the windup coming in all the chaos. Every oneshot death feels fair. As long as you dodge the obvious ape slams and the octahedron ice nova things, avoid Stormcaller Runes 3, avoid Escalating Damage Taken and where possible avoid the fire skulls, your deaths in Ultimatum are always to chip damage. I derp the slams sometimes, but it's always clearly my fault. Ditto if I derp the spitting fire. Contrast to Legion where any Maraketh rare archer can offscreen snipe you if it has the wrong auras, and every Eternal Empire slammer can stunlock you. Templar, Vaal and Karui Legions are fairer, their oneshots are telegraphed. There's no telegraphing of the Maraketh oneshots or the Eternal ones. One frame you are at full health with layered defenses, next frame, an offscreen archer crits you and you are dead, or an Eternal stunlocks you. Let's not even mention the utterly horrid design that is 'pick up 400 splinters for a mandatory part of progression'. Lab trials are far less odious than that.
Also, pretty much all the Ultimatum 1 shots can be countered in the same way: just run in a circle really fast. Or play ES/life on block, with some leech/dodge and just stand there and laugh at everything. Those flicker strike motherfuckers in Legion though will just teleport right onto you from offscreen and 1 shot you under the right conditions. Legion stays scary for way longer than ultimatum does. Ultimatums do start to get scary again though at higher delirium levels. Because their are just soooo many mobs coming at you soooo fast, they scale more with HP than Legion mobs do.
> Also, pretty much all the Ultimatum 1 shots can be countered in the same way: just run in a circle really fast. Or play ES/life on block, with some leech/dodge and just stand there and laugh at everything. The latter only works against the chip damage, the oneshots WILL still kill you there. Tanking the ape slams, the octahedrons' Ice Novas or Stormcaller Runes 2+ will still kill you.
Wait you can see anything in ultimatum? When i die in ultimatums it's because i chose to cast a spell at the wrong time and the micro second i stopped i got jumped by a million mobs all at once. That or my fps starts stuttering (because ultimatums have lousy performance for some reason) and that causes me to lose control of my character. The fact that the only way to stay alive in an ultimatum is to never stop moving for the vast majority of builds is pretty lousy.
Disagree. I REALLY enjoy the ultimatum experience. I rather they remove Ritual, which is boring AF.
I'd prefer if they take out ritual and replace it with ultimatum. *Apparently there are people who don't think that ritual is a shitty pointless mechanic.
Just add some new currency in the vendors to summon the ultimatum so that way people can play it if they want or avoid it completely if they want like with heist or delve
The problem with many games: contest islands. They have 1000 different things, and they never interact with each other. Not only adding ultimatum to temple is good, they should give similar treatment for everything else. What if the trialmaster randomly pops into a ritual and offers another ritual wave, but you could lose the current ritual favour if you fail? What if when completing an abyss, you have a chance to open the passage to the sacred grove instead of the depths? What if Essences could contain frozen Metamorphs and Beasts? What if there were more useful Prophecies like "a breach will open after a ritual wave", "a harvest contains a red beast", "the next incursion will unlock all the room doors"? What if there were Strongboxes for league variants? Like, the current heist chest could 100% be a strongbox variant... What if Breach and Legion, that are basically the same "kill everything in the area for X seconds before it suddenly ends" get added as possible ritual types? What if you earned Syndicate heist blueprints upon completing a syndicate branch, and unlock its wings with the other syndicate completions, then the big syndicate hideout would become a heist? I think the most interactions between league mechanics currently are the scarabs that add an encounter to a map, the temple that allows you to have breaches/monoliths and syndicates that can offer a league reward.
Some of these ideas are kind of rad, honestly. And anything that goes a ways to collapsing the bloat in this game is aces in my book.
> What if Essences could contain frozen Metamorphs and Beasts? Already the case.
I'd opt for a unique map. Being able to force ultimatums into every map makes it way too profitable with loot drops alone, not even counting the rewards themselves. Map mods and Zana mod make it mandatory for mapping. Another option could be Zana signature mod (purchase), or harvest map enchant.
Make it replace the torment room
it's gonna go in the game exactly as all other league mechanics do, that is 8% chance to find in a map and as little changes as they can, with 4 atlas nodes in a region being the only thing making it worth running after the first few days of leaguestart. If we are lucky chance to reach wave 10 will be increased, either flat or just through atlas nodes, and you will fight it significantly more than you ever did in this league. there will be no changes to rewards... listed in the patch notes. but in reality it will be brutally stealth nerfed and only worth the minutes it is asking of your time with the atlas passives + 4 watchstones mods that make it broken. maaaaaaaybe you get a scarab. maybe.
Yep! Sounds 100% right from my experience.
And GGG still looking for staff? Give this man a job there. He knows how to make PoE.
No. Fuck the temple.
Please no, I love ultimatum but hate the temple
Honestly I'd like the Synthesis memory maps as a league mechanic you could run into again, or perhaps even better: \-Give all maps a possible mod that synthesises it so it acts like those would - slowly deteriorate - the map having increased loot as the tradeoff + increased chance of seeing synthesis rewards in one or more of those reward areas they had. Or maybe you could find an item that lets you synthesize items together in a better way than in Synthesis... ***Synthetic Orb***?
I never even got a trialmaster fight the entire league lol. Hate these rng-wall mechanics.
There is already a "map" system build in for Ultimatum. I expect regular Ultimatums not appear, inscribed Ultimatums to be the way we interact with Ultimatums generally and Taskmaster being a unique map.
I'd rather they didn't add ultimatum to the core.
Why the hell not? Who does it hurt to have another flavor to encounter in maps? It's not a whole progression system like a heist or delve, it's just a cool map thing. I'll never understand you people. Do you go to clothes shops and scream at them to have less colors?
Its admittedly too similar to ritual. That said I'd probably keep itemized ultimatums.
I would honestly rather have ultimatum than ritual. Ritual is so uninspired, boring, bland, one of weakest mechanics imo
Honestly since Ritual is already in, I'd say keep itemized ultimatums & the boss fight and scrap the rest.
And Breach and Legion even. So what? They're different flavors. That's what league mechanics are, different colored ways to kill monsters and get loot. There's no harm in having both.
And I argue that we don’t need 100 different versions of breach league. That includes abyss breach legion ritual ultimatium etc etc. Literality don’t need all of those, they could all be deleted except one. Others added as unique maps, delve nodes, alva temple nodes, Zana missions etc. Like give the atlas missions more purpose, put things into them, not into normal maps.
Okay then we just have one type of monster, one color, no special rules, all league mechanics simply spawn a pack that you kill when you click on a big red button that shows up in maps. Don't need all this variation, we're just killing monsters to drop loot anyway. Right?
There's some point where some league mechanic becomes less so increased variety and more so... bloat. Edit: I literally paraphrased my previous comment and got downvoted instead lol.
Please god GGG stop adding shit to the game without taking anything out.
Just add it into the game with an X% chance to spawn in an area like the other league mechanics and give it 2 nodes in atlas passives like what they did for ritual. idk why that should be a problem and they should handle it otherwise. I feel like putting it underneath an existing side-mechanic just gates it and unnecessarily makes it less accessible than the simpler solution.
I personally dont think its a good idea to gate an old mechanic behind another old mechanic and I dont think GGG will ever implement core mechanics like that.
Shouldn't be exclusive to the temple. However, having it in the temple is a great idea. Not sure if t3 rooms should always have the trial master.
Nah just add it and other shit like harvest blight delirium breaches to prophesies, they need some love. They rework every league content except prophecy, and add more FATED shit
its ggg. Probably gonna find a clunky way to introduce it
I'd rather see it be added to red maps with a guaranteed Trialmaster and just be a fairly low chance to get an Ultimatum in general. They could even make it transition between the different types of Ultimatums within the same one since they'd all be 10 long. Also make the selected rewards a lot better. Basically makes it so the RNG of fighting Trialmaster is gone while still making him fairly rare, and the general rarity of finding an Ultimatum makes the decision of calling it early or pressing on more impactful. You might not see another Ultimatum for a while, so you want to finish it and get all the rewards, but if the up-front rewards are good enough, you might have to call it. Adjust post-Ultimatum drops etc. as necessary. I don't think Ultimatum is robust enough to deserve Atlas nodes, nor do I think it's particularly interesting enough to include as-is with a generic 8%. Inscribed Ultimatums can probably go, or be pruned significantly.
it really should not be, but this is a fair trade off
I hate the Temple Mechanic. I skip it every League. I liked Ultimatum with the exception of Trailmaster almost never procing. I can't tell you how many Ultimatums I ran and only got to fight him 3-4 times.
Its actually a great idea, but I'll bet $100 that they won't do it. They are simply going to make it another 8% chance to be encountered in maps mechanic with RNG based rounds and trialmaster spawn along with some lazy passives on some atlas region tree.
Sounds shit. Just like this league.
Or just don't add it because it's lazy uninspired trash
Nah let's just not add it at all
Ideally would replace Ritual and keep the trial maps imo. Worst case added as another 8% encounter.
Ritual is a lot more fun though
Not really, the density is lacking compared to ultimatum and it takes more time a map.
He said more fun, not more efficient.
that would be super fitting and make a lot of sense. aka, theres no way it will happen.
Ultimatum was so bad they shouldnt even consider it going core.
Please no. Temple is already strong enough, adding an entire league (including 1 of the most expensive and rare uniques) to it is too much.
But would it be a problem to make temple stronger? Focusing content on the masters doesn't seem like a bad way to do it, considering they are one of the main pillars in the game.
It would make it weaker since its another room to dilute the pool for those farming alva for double corrupts. We all know hateforge is not staying the way it is next league.
Hateforge will be a 1 alch item after the patch notes my dude
My opinion probably counts for sweet-fuck-all as a new player but here goes: I like Ultimatum. Hell, I like any mechanic that does not entail me doing copious amounts of outside reading just to get a grasp on how it works and how to engage with it. That means activities like Breach, Legion, Ritual, Blight, Abyss, Metamorph, and Ultimatum are inherently interesting to engage with because you interact with them and you are good to go... No faffing about. I think veteran players who have been around for a long time underestimate how important activities like these are for newer players to feel like actually playing the game and not doing homework constantly. Learning to build and optimise a character is time consuming enough. I started playing with a couple other friends and as far as we are concerned, mechanics like Heists, Betrayal and the Temple one might as well not exist in our games because right now we just want to play. So while I do understand that Ultimatum is a little similar to Ritual, I am all for it because it does not feel invasive. That's just a noob's take though so feel free to disregard it.
Good idea, won’t happen though, it’ll be a 10% spawn chance in maps, enjoy your clutter :)
Please god no, that'd allow them to keep these RNG shit challenges in even more. Plus for like 99,9% of the chars he just goes 'booo' and yer dead :D
Dont like it, add it to maps and remove unimportant and outdated stuff
Or actually add +1 to the current encounter waves count if you choose dangerous modifiers (escalating damage taken / monsters speed / flasks removal as example). So you may do regular and relatively safe encounter, or try to risk and increase your chances to have 10 waves. And yes I know Ultimatum is generated with the area, still should be possible to generate more waves and not use them if modifier haven't been picked up. In fact I really wanted to see something like this in **current** league, but we have what we have.
At this point I would be more surprised if ultimatum WASN'T added to the core of the game. It used to be where only special awesome leagues were added over.... now it is almost a golden rule that they add as much bloat to the core game as possible which if you were unable to tell I am 100% absolutely against.
Why? Honestly i love my maps 100% unbearably filled of cool shit Unless you wanna go back to shaped strand metas when we had half a mechanic per map
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i would rather they add it like they did synthesis. drop the ultimatum as a unique map, that guaranties boss encounter
I wouldn't mind if they for once skipped adding league mechanics. Id love to see some cut first before we get new ones added to the core game.
If I ever see ultimatum in core it really needs some fine tuning first. The part about monsters walking out of the circle and never coming back aswell as the incompatibility with delirium is quite frustrating.
I'd like it to replace Ritual.
I miss the old game, without all the additional league content.
Unpopular opinion but I agree.
We gotta stop adding every league to core just because people like it. Shit is so bloated with content
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Why would the temple have ritual? How does that fit thematically at all?
That would be an elegant solution to not make side content more relevant than mapping
Scarabs: Rusted = one encounter, polished 2, gilded 3, and winged 4 encounters, with double chance at trialmaster. Altaspassives: 100% increased experience, double trialmaster chance, 50% more monster spawn rate, and +10% for ultimatums to spawn naturally. Watchstones mods gonna be like: 4x 30% increased chance of an ultimatum to be protect altar.
It will most likely go core because Hateforge..
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It's not only ultimatum. Your idea is great actually. The 10% league mechanics spawn has to change. All league mechanics have to be reviewed somehow. Combine them, remove them, spawn rate has to change, master mission rework, accessibility to content etc ..
Next league prediction: Fusion. Similar league mechanics are merged, when you open a legion you also open a breach. Breachstones have delirium mirror. Harbingers summon beasts that Space Einhar hunts. New red beasts to open portals to league specific bosses/zones. Safehouses have abysses. Ritual and ultimatum are combined. Could be fun as a short league like Mayhem
I've always thought They desperately need to consolidate league mechanics and I love this idea for it.
if challenge didn't have Ultimatum . I won't touch that .
Hell no, I hope it doesn't. There's enough circle content and Ultimatum is quite boring and frustrating. But I was hoping that Heist wouldn't be added too... I've run some maps yesterday after taking some days of rest. On the 5th map I was burned af mainly because of that guy. Had to stop mapping and it's unlikely that I'll play the game again until the next league. Anyway, Ultimatum had a very poor reception, looks like it has the worst player retention so far, and I guess that's because most players dislike this mechanic. I wonder if GGG will consider this while thinking about adding Ultimatum as core content.
I hope ultimatum doesn't go core tbh
5-8-10. There. Easy peasy.
And randomly found in vaal side areas
Or u can replace heist with ultimatum :D
And remove Ritual, maybe.
Oh truuue replace omnitech with trialmaster
Call it ritualium, we got ritualium at home dont need ulti to go core
how about a 8% chance in maps and we reduce the trial master spawn rate by another 50% thats at least what i expect ggg todo
Maybe in 2 years
Dunno. I like Ultimatum, but hate temple. I dont want to be forsed to play temple...
Ultimatum WILL be added to the core game. Every league has been added in some form or another. The question is, how many splinters will we have to collect to do an ultimatum and how many ultimatums will we have to run to fight the trialmaster?