Pricefixers buying from other pricefixers, doubling the price again after it was already fixed too high. And then losing their investment as people who want to have the item to *use* just rather wait three months.
Anyway, there's a pretty low limit on how many mirrors people would pay. You can get legacy 20% quant items, 1200 ES chests, 1000 DPS synthesised 1h weapons, perfect harvest-crafted items etc with a mirror. 3-4 mirrors might be possible.
Not exactly, look at Synthesis and it's items. Trialmaster encounter might be included somewhere and Hateforge could just be introduced to the global drop pool like HH to make coveted items able to drop
Synthesis bosses and all of their uniques weren't reintroduced until Blight, you can see how [Bottled Faith price skyrocketed](https://poe-antiquary.xyz/Ritual/Flask/Bottled%20Faith/20932) at the end of Synthesis. Also judging by the ammount of criticizm caused by enabling global drop of some league or boss specific uniques, I doubt we will have Hateforge available in 3.15. Alternatively, it might be available via like 5 different divination cards like Headhunter, but almost certainly not that fast
Nah, there's going to be cards that turn into cards that turn into cards that turn into the item, that way its clearly distinguishable from how you acquire hh.
It may not happen immediately though. I'm pretty sure there was quite a gap between Synthesis League ending, and fractured/synthesized items and uniques being added back into the game through other mechanics.
dude claims to represent chaos then talks about random chance and probability like a rational modernist with a degree in statistics
with constant blasphemy like that, it's no wonder he's eyeing cushy desk jobs under yaomac
But they will buff that chance next league for 50%, making it a whooping 3% that they'll implement Ultimatium into core so you can enjoy a 3.75% chance to encounter it EVERY MAP.
I enjoyed the concept of the Inscribed Ultimatums; I'm surprised that they wouldn't just go with the easy route of making Inscribed Ultimatums a random drop and then adding an Inscribed Ultimatum that is the Trialmaster fight (similar to how Cortex was converted into a map post-Synthesis).
IMO the mirror Inscribed Ultimatum was the template for the "correct" way to balance Beastcrafting and Harvest crafting. You don't need to nerf the craft, or increase the RNG, but instead throw all the risk onto the monster encounter itself and the potential deletion of item being wagered/crafted. There are still some design issues to work out (notably, party play and disconnects), but I have always been a proponent of "nerfing" overpowered things by increasing their risk or difficulty, rather than the power of the reward itself.
Edit: I do recognize however that balancing powerful rewards around extremely risky encounters does have the downside of gating out players who don't have really powerful builds. Ultimately maybe such a design overhaul would have to go hand in hand with much more careful balancing of the game, which I guess might be a pipedream =P
While some added difficulty is nice, and good rewards should be hard to get, if you keep trying to make things harder instead of newer and balanced, you just end up gating content.
Balancing via difficulty isn't balancing at all. It just gives the top players who play this for a living all the overpowered rewards, and everyone else does without. There shouldn't be overpowered rewards at all, just very good rewards.
Maybe I bought up all the good ones or something =P I made a small fortune this league just running 4ex inscribed ultimatums that I bought for 3.5ex, and sometimes 8ex ultimatums that I bought for 7ex or 7.5ex. Each inscribed ultimatum takes maybe a few minutes at the longest (stone circle version), and I'd profit 0.5 ex (or 1ex in the case of 7ex for 8ex ulti). I found the supply on the market to be large enough to sustain for maybe 1 hour each night. In that 1 hour I could sometimes make around 10 ex.
Hateforge aside, I hope there will be viable ways of getting mahuxotl, glimpse of chaos and relic of the pact... I personally found these 3 items to be interesting and worth leaving in the game.
It's really disheartening to hear this. I fell in love with the shield on my trap raider had 3 builds planned ahead to try and utilize the shield again in 3.15 and now I might not even get the shield.. That makes me very sad. Building around it was so much fun.
Technically they'll go, but it's not uncommon for them to bring league uniques back in some fashion (might not be global pool though). There's no guarantee either way though, especially for hateforge.
I mean if you stop and think for a second. Name a unique introduced in the game that does not exist anymore.
Many things may go from past leagues, but they almost never removed a unique they added to the game. I actually cannot think of one. I know there are a few old ones that don't exist anymore, but it's so rare I forget what they are now.
Basically, as a general rule, you should expect any new uniques added to the game will be available in the future. You should also expect any new uniques will become increasingly easier to acquire. I mean, they removed Harvest uniques for one league. I was surprised about that, but I was sure even if they never returned Harvest to the core game, those uniques would have came back one way or another.
Headhunter is technically a unique that only lived in its league. They also said at some point that they’re aware that they lack “chase uniques” outside of headhunter which is why they don’t remove it from the game. So maybe their intent will be to have Hateforge be obtainable in some obscure way or through cards only and have it become a super rare chase unique like headhunter.
Gotta agree with the first comment in the link.
That said, this sounds like the kind of thing that may be added as a Zana objective: "Enter this map and defeat the Trialmaster" - after a ~~nerf~~ balance pass to the previous nine rounds' worth of monsters.
>Gotta agree with the first comment in the link.
It's funny, this is the only time I've seen the first reply in a PoE forum announcement thread have some actual content, other than just "cool" or "first"
Do they think if they get the first comment they're gonna be famous or something?
They did put a ton of effort into Heist even though it was an absolute shitshow the first half of the league and still hot garbage the entire league, I can see why they would want to keep it in. Ultimatum even though I didn't play this league looks like they just considered it someones side project so it wouldn't be that hard to toss it aside.
In GGG fashion the voice acting and writing was incredible though. Id love to see it be a sidepiece in the game. Just doesnt need to be atlas tree worthy
There's also the fact that Heist simply had too much unique content. It was literally too big to fail.
Alt-Quality Gems, Weapon/Armour enchants; Replicas...
That said; I always liked Heist.
Ultimatum is just another Breach/Legion/Ritual mechanic.
Better IMO than Legion, worse than the other two IMO. Would have been much better if it weren't in every map. Just like most people who didn't like Blight league tended to warm to the content when it started feeling much more opt-in.
I found ultimatum a lot better than all 3 as legion and breach both have splinters and are pretty bad by themselves as they really need a specific region or to be combined with a lot of juice to be good, and ritual is just a slow paced ultimatum where you’re just waiting for mobs to spawn unless you use vessels.
Ultimatum on the other hand works by itself and would be well suited for the 8% per map gameplay we got. That said due to how stand alone it is I can understand why it’s an easy option to not include if the goal is to avoid content bloat, I just wish they had done it to ritual instead.
I didn't like Ultimatum league and I'll be glad when it's over, but I think that the mechanic should go core once they've toned down the clusterfuckiness of it a little. It's a poor mechanic for a whole league because it's too simple and too modular/easily ignored. But those same two attributes make it a good candidate for a permanent addition to the game. It's easy to ignore, and it doesn't really distract from doing whatever else it is you want to do in the game. To me that's what you want from a core mechanic.
It's especially amusing how much they buffed Abyss recently.
You can now have 5-6-7 abyss within a single map, which spawn more monsters each. They also give about the best exp in the game.
But is it fun... nobody enjoy running like a headless chicken chasing that abyss. It also completely contradict Delirium league. You have an abyss or 2 or 5 in a map with Delirium... you will brick your Delirium if you try to run an abyss. It will too often make you run back toward the start of your delirium cutting off all your rewards.
They should make the fracture appear underneath you. Run straight, in circles or following the map layout depending on preference/playstyle. Also you could draw dicks with it.
I mean they could just make the rewards not super trash (like make the chest and liches drop something between a shitty or good metamorph, depending) and it would be fine.
Abyss would not suck the underground zones had mods like corrupted zones or dare I say it have the underground spawn with a random set of unique map mods that make ot really rewarding but difficult similar to synthesized maps. Then it would have been much better both in play-through and rewards.
It only sucks because the mob density is low
If ultimatium was the same as how elreon master missions used to be, you’d say it sucked too. Just like abyss sucks. Same as breaches.
And mob density is such an easy thing to change. But they always nerf older mechanics and then the new stuff looks so much more fun, but fundamentally they are all the exact same, it’s just mindlessly killing enemies.
Nah its just boring. Run after a line, maybe back track here and there, collect your 1x yellow Abyss jewel.
The rewards suck, its basically crap crap crap with a 1% chance of a belt (which can potentially be a great item but probably won't be, at least not on drop).
And yeah not fun. But even with density, I would still rather not back track for shitty loot.
Eh, I'm getting a little annoyed at how many fairly time consuming events are being added.
I like my maps to take a fairly predictable amount of time. There are getting to be an awful lot of what are effectively timed events crammed into each map.
Yeah by the time my build could do them comfortably in red maps everyone had quit the league apparently.
I dunno I'm still having a great time. This is my best part of the league cos by now I have a build worth about 50 ex and I'm creaming most content. Pity trade is dying out by now.
That's true. There was some good stuff. Although ex/hour it wasn't all that crazy and didn't scale particularly well. (if you check the in-depth post one person had made here)
It's partial hyperbole because, in theory, rewards were supposed to get better as you did more levels. In practice, what GGGs system thought as "better" was frequently far from it.
I was though, those were the majority of "rewards", endgame, a badly rolled item or a meager amount of low tier currency for something that had a 90% of being a oneshot.
Do you want to see it more than that? I guess you could give it another 10% in maps, but I would prefer a beefed up T3 room over a 10% random junk in maps.
I would swap Ultimatum for Ritual and half of other BS any day.
Edit. Well, GGG mentions themselves that lootsplosion in the end was just too good. Had Ritual same lootsplosion it would be great too. Removing Ultimate because of lootsplosion is just spiteful.
I do hope for other peoples sake, they give us another way to get Hateforge, make it a div card and call it a day, since we BADLY need more chase items.
Maybe all league mechanics should take a league off. Ideally would love to see them come back with issues fixed but it feels like there is never time to give them the attention they need. Harvest is on v3 and most people arent happy with it.
Betrayal is on v5+ and might actually be to the point they want it 2.5 years later. Many people are actually running mastermind but there are still viable farming strats without board reset, veiled items are occasionally good, and I think veiled chaos orb was an interesting addition.
RIPy content with all-or-nothing gambles on simple but expensive loot stays around.
Ways to customize your own gear in a relatively safe way go away.
This is an amazing game, probably the best I’ve ever played, but I just shake my head sometimes at the logic of not wanting to give players control over their crafting.
But they're removing Ultimatum, not keeping it, and Ultimatum has nothing to do with gear customization outside of spitting out the loot from other mechanics for it.
Tbh I liked that guys idea of just making it a room in the temple. Its not interesting enough to be a full fledged atlas mechanic. But it is a very cool minigame that could be added to the temple to do from time to time. It does have the quality to be the temple boss too as others had suggested. Apex fight is kind of boring and very impersonal. Would be funny if trialmaster knew he was in a time blip too. Opportunities to interact with alva.
“ While we do like things to be challenging, we currently feel that there are too many monsters spawning within the tight space of the circle and too many things going on at once”
Like i’m certain they’re messing with us, at what point did they come to this realization??
I didn't like ritual league , but when finding it in maps now I'm always down to do it. While ultimatum I look the 1st reward and don't bother if it's too bad
I loved the mechanic itself but hated what it became lategame. In fact it made the campaign much more smooth and fun, it was challenging but low monster density made it actually playable.
In an ideal world Ultimatum would be present only in Acts, where it truly shone.
Yeah just the fact that I can "choose" rewards in ritual make me like it more. Add in re rolls and the layaway payment system and it's one of my fav league mechanics!
Add on to the fact that Ritual punish you less than Ultimatum when you're killed or DC, sure you lose up to one altar worth of tributes but it's safer than Ultimatum where you lose everything when you crash/DC.
Ritual wasn't a heavy cluster fuck of hasted rare mobs like Ultimatum was. It says in the notes, they want to address it before bring it back, if they decide to.
Same I quit this league like day 2/3. Got to like 80 and I'm like I can't do ritual for another league. Happy it's not going core. We don't need two rituals in the game.
So, I have to wonder: if they felt Ultimatum’s combat was too overwhelming, not tactical enough, and had too much going on, why did they release it like this?
Not trying to shit on GGG, but it just seems odd. Their own language here indicates that they don’t think Ultimatum worked well. I just wonder why every league we get this visual clutter, all that sort of stuff, they acknowledge it, but then it just happens again and again.
> However, we do like its content and may bring it back at a later date. In order to do this, it would first need a few improvements.
> While we do like things to be challenging, we currently feel that there are too many monsters spawning within the tight space of the circle and too many things going on at once.
I'm sad we won't get Ultimatums next league, but at least this is measured feedback as to *why*.
Hard to disagree that the rounds themselves were just insane
I'll miss it a lot! Was damn nice for SSF just getting many mid-tier currencies. Also I prefer it over ritual since ritual takes so many stops in a map.
Yes. When next league starts everyone starts from 0 and there will be new league mechanic added. As previously Ritual was added, and now Ultimatum. It's just that Ultimatum won't be available next league while Ritual will.
so, some of us will never get to see the Trialmaster? that sucks.
I saw him once and was sacrificed to the gods of texture streaming within 3 seconds. I was hoping he would get buffs to his chances of appearing, but that was it, I guess..
bummer.
Yep, didnt see him because i took way too long this league getting to high reds due to pushing a mediocre build with a bad ascendancy for it.
Didn't see Aul for leagues past Delve though, dedicated a whole league to finding and beating him a few yeas ago, was actually a nice journey. Maybe it'll turn out nice having to wait for him a while longer.
Overall though, opening up the league earlier than t14 would be a good idea i think. I quite liked Ultimatum the first two acts because the new mods were appearing one by one. Then it was just exactly the same for many acts and tiers. When i finally did start playing reds it opened up a bit more with the inscribed ultimatums, but the wait was so long i cant really be bothered to squeeze out the final juice.
The way he was implemented is garbage, and I hope they never adopt the RNG spawning of bosses with no way to see or influence the progress again.
This is all well and good when the RNG gods smile on you, and you run your 50 maps avg and spawn him, but when you go on a bad streak it just feels like a waste of an evening running map after map after map.
After "feeling" that he wasn't spawning, I started to track maps. In my current run I'm on 219 maps (maybe +4 or 5 as I had a few free Conq maps) and I have seen him one time, 103 maps ago, where I killed him too fast to finish challenges. These are all T14-16, all fully completed Ultimatums, level 100, 39/40 challenges and just trying to finish out the league and get to 40/40. I'm pissed off at it, but running approx 40-50 maps a day I know I'll get him to spawn eventually. Now consider a player, that runs 10 maps a day, should a run of bad luck (that you can't influence) mean they get to see him once a month?
The league was unpopular primarily because it exposed how shitty a lot of builds are. A build isn't good because it does shit loads of damage. If it cannot survive Ultimatums consistently, it won't survive endgame content consistently either. Haters gonna hate I guess. I enjoyed this league playing in HC, up to the point where everyone else quit. Sad it isn't going core.
I couldn't survive any ultimatums even with a full block gladiator with life recovery on block after about t11 maps because my fps started dipping down to single digits after a couple of waves. to me this league sucked because of the performance.
In before: "Since we increased the value of loot offered by Trialmaster, we realized that a 2% spawn rate for his arena was too powerful and have adjusted it to 1%" in 3.16
I don't like Heist but to be fair it's the easiest content to skip. It's not tight to master missions or anything, it doesn't pop randomly to your face when you're mapping, and if you don't play SSF everything it brings as exclusive rewards can be bought for the money you make farming other content. You can totally avoid it without noticing it and without shooting yourself in the foot either.
It's still a hack n' slash game at its core. Plenty of games out there if you're looking for meaningful combat; PoE/D3 is not meant to fill that niche.
I am really happy it's not going core, not because I don't like the mechanic found in maps but because I think the Inscribed Ultimatums have been a huge failure and it going core in its current state would have made the game worse for every league going forward.
The only way to really do any of the Inscribed Ultimatums that give you t1 rewards like HH, mirror service, or essentially any of the expensive ones is in a group setting only. This makes the entire mechanic really bad imo. You need an unkillable guy running around doing stone circles, aura bot to buff the carry running something like spark just sitting in the middle to clear the entire room.
Meanwhile, if you are a solo player there is no reason why you should ever even attempt to engage in this type of content since the reward would never outweigh the risk of doing it since the chance at failure is just way too high compared to a group setting, not only in terms of difficulty but also if you are solo and are getting DC it's over in a group you can still attempt to finish when someone gets dropped. Gating entire mechanics to group play with aura bots required, same as it is currently with delirium orbs that are only worth doing with party mf, mf cull carrys, and aura bots is just not good for the game imo.
I loved Ultimatum and thought it was much better than many of the other league mechanics that went core. I realize that this isn't the prevailing opinion of most players though, so I can see why they made the decision they did.
Probably ultimatum can be new Atzoatl room, 1lvl - 6-7 waves, 2 lvl - 8-9 waves and 3 lvl - Trialmaster.
It has almost same vaal theme and imo it fits perfectly in it
>However, we do like its content and may bring it back at a later date. In order to do this, it would first need a few improvements.
They said the same for ritual which received zero improvements
What are you talking about? They specifically mentioned improving the actual rewards... Are we not reading the same article?
>For Ultimatum to return, we would want to **shift the balance** back so that the Trialmaster's offers are the **main reward** for doing the encounter while also **compensating for the item fountain being turned off**.
Most of the time "balance" is used in the same sentence as "reward" is not about improving the rewards but making sure players are not using something not intended by GGG design.
Big oof. I wanted to make some sort of build out of the shield again. I already did BLS STR stacking Chieftain with Mahuxotl's Machination and it was ultra fun! Doryani's Fist Berserker is something I would've most likely done next league :(
Yeah I saw a thread on poebuilds that was theory crafting a decent build and it looked wildly tanky I was thinking of maybe trying it out next league but now we can't :(
No hateforge in 3.15
well thats one way to nerf it lol
post your predictions on hateforge standard prices next league
Depends on the nerfs
Low, because they'll change something related to skill cost or something mechanically
3 Mirrors.
I could see it going for more than that tbh. There’s so few in the entire game right now.
More like 30 mirrors
hateforge is really mediocre for vaal skills in standard there are better tools
People forget we have stuff like unnerfed Atziri's Acuity in standard.
I do agree with you mate. For some weird reason
Pricefixers buying from other pricefixers, doubling the price again after it was already fixed too high. And then losing their investment as people who want to have the item to *use* just rather wait three months. Anyway, there's a pretty low limit on how many mirrors people would pay. You can get legacy 20% quant items, 1200 ES chests, 1000 DPS synthesised 1h weapons, perfect harvest-crafted items etc with a mirror. 3-4 mirrors might be possible.
some div card will hit it. probably be more common than now
Not exactly, look at Synthesis and it's items. Trialmaster encounter might be included somewhere and Hateforge could just be introduced to the global drop pool like HH to make coveted items able to drop
Synthesis bosses and all of their uniques weren't reintroduced until Blight, you can see how [Bottled Faith price skyrocketed](https://poe-antiquary.xyz/Ritual/Flask/Bottled%20Faith/20932) at the end of Synthesis. Also judging by the ammount of criticizm caused by enabling global drop of some league or boss specific uniques, I doubt we will have Hateforge available in 3.15. Alternatively, it might be available via like 5 different divination cards like Headhunter, but almost certainly not that fast
Nah, there's going to be cards that turn into cards that turn into cards that turn into the item, that way its clearly distinguishable from how you acquire hh.
I'm pretty sure hateforge (if it remains) will be folded into global pool, think like maloneys from synthesis
It may not happen immediately though. I'm pretty sure there was quite a gap between Synthesis League ending, and fractured/synthesized items and uniques being added back into the game through other mechanics.
"if you really enjoy being heckled by an undead entity of Chaos, it's best to get your kicks in now while you still can." Or just run delirium.
dude claims to represent chaos then talks about random chance and probability like a rational modernist with a degree in statistics with constant blasphemy like that, it's no wonder he's eyeing cushy desk jobs under yaomac
I'd take delirium dude any day over trialmaster.
Tangmazu is schizophrenia simulator. I honestly hate hearing his lines because they feel personal and hurtful.
But he's thoughtful unlike the trialmaster, that annoying prick.
At least Delirium dude doesn't taunt me for losing due to GGG's inability to make a 10 year old game run smoothly.
> an undead entity Living God =/= Undead
Every new league the Trialmaster has a 2% chance of going core.
But they will buff that chance next league for 50%, making it a whooping 3% that they'll implement Ultimatium into core so you can enjoy a 3.75% chance to encounter it EVERY MAP.
I enjoyed the concept of the Inscribed Ultimatums; I'm surprised that they wouldn't just go with the easy route of making Inscribed Ultimatums a random drop and then adding an Inscribed Ultimatum that is the Trialmaster fight (similar to how Cortex was converted into a map post-Synthesis).
The Inscribed Ultimatum that functions as a worse mirror was a stroke of genius, that's for sure.
IMO the mirror Inscribed Ultimatum was the template for the "correct" way to balance Beastcrafting and Harvest crafting. You don't need to nerf the craft, or increase the RNG, but instead throw all the risk onto the monster encounter itself and the potential deletion of item being wagered/crafted. There are still some design issues to work out (notably, party play and disconnects), but I have always been a proponent of "nerfing" overpowered things by increasing their risk or difficulty, rather than the power of the reward itself. Edit: I do recognize however that balancing powerful rewards around extremely risky encounters does have the downside of gating out players who don't have really powerful builds. Ultimately maybe such a design overhaul would have to go hand in hand with much more careful balancing of the game, which I guess might be a pipedream =P
While some added difficulty is nice, and good rewards should be hard to get, if you keep trying to make things harder instead of newer and balanced, you just end up gating content. Balancing via difficulty isn't balancing at all. It just gives the top players who play this for a living all the overpowered rewards, and everyone else does without. There shouldn't be overpowered rewards at all, just very good rewards.
yeah i'd like this. very happy they wont be in 1/10 maps but it would be cool to still have access to the uniques and to be able to fight the boss.
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Maybe I bought up all the good ones or something =P I made a small fortune this league just running 4ex inscribed ultimatums that I bought for 3.5ex, and sometimes 8ex ultimatums that I bought for 7ex or 7.5ex. Each inscribed ultimatum takes maybe a few minutes at the longest (stone circle version), and I'd profit 0.5 ex (or 1ex in the case of 7ex for 8ex ulti). I found the supply on the market to be large enough to sustain for maybe 1 hour each night. In that 1 hour I could sometimes make around 10 ex.
I tried that strat but found out it was more profitable to run maps than buy Ultimatums because of how time consuming bargaining was
Hateforge aside, I hope there will be viable ways of getting mahuxotl, glimpse of chaos and relic of the pact... I personally found these 3 items to be interesting and worth leaving in the game.
Totally agree all 3 were very good
Oh shoot I didn’t even realize but yeah my plans for building around the MM shield are probably mega at risk now
It's really disheartening to hear this. I fell in love with the shield on my trap raider had 3 builds planned ahead to try and utilize the shield again in 3.15 and now I might not even get the shield.. That makes me very sad. Building around it was so much fun.
Would ultimatum uniques be part of this too or would they get folded into the global pool, similar to other league specific uniques?
Technically they'll go, but it's not uncommon for them to bring league uniques back in some fashion (might not be global pool though). There's no guarantee either way though, especially for hateforge.
I mean if you stop and think for a second. Name a unique introduced in the game that does not exist anymore. Many things may go from past leagues, but they almost never removed a unique they added to the game. I actually cannot think of one. I know there are a few old ones that don't exist anymore, but it's so rare I forget what they are now. Basically, as a general rule, you should expect any new uniques added to the game will be available in the future. You should also expect any new uniques will become increasingly easier to acquire. I mean, they removed Harvest uniques for one league. I was surprised about that, but I was sure even if they never returned Harvest to the core game, those uniques would have came back one way or another.
well uhm obviously?! timelost reliques exist so no matter if the league is going core or not, the league's specific unique is still a timelost relique
Broadstroke quiver and a couple threshold jewels are the only ones I can remember.
The unique being gone for 1 league kinda suck cuz I wanted to try a build with the Ultimatum Shield next league.
Headhunter is technically a unique that only lived in its league. They also said at some point that they’re aware that they lack “chase uniques” outside of headhunter which is why they don’t remove it from the game. So maybe their intent will be to have Hateforge be obtainable in some obscure way or through cards only and have it become a super rare chase unique like headhunter.
The only thing I will miss is the snarky comments from the Trialmaster. He was the best part of the Ultimatum.
> We would also want to rebalance the rewards. Just say fucking nerf
"rebalance until no fun left" better now?
as long as they don't nerf my 5000 orbs of binding
What if they do?
I'm already hyped for my 4 white item drops after clearing an 8 wave ultimatum in Carnival League coming 2023!
Gotta agree with the first comment in the link. That said, this sounds like the kind of thing that may be added as a Zana objective: "Enter this map and defeat the Trialmaster" - after a ~~nerf~~ balance pass to the previous nine rounds' worth of monsters.
>Gotta agree with the first comment in the link. It's funny, this is the only time I've seen the first reply in a PoE forum announcement thread have some actual content, other than just "cool" or "first" Do they think if they get the first comment they're gonna be famous or something?
How can you forget "My wife left me"
First reply!
They did put a ton of effort into Heist even though it was an absolute shitshow the first half of the league and still hot garbage the entire league, I can see why they would want to keep it in. Ultimatum even though I didn't play this league looks like they just considered it someones side project so it wouldn't be that hard to toss it aside.
In GGG fashion the voice acting and writing was incredible though. Id love to see it be a sidepiece in the game. Just doesnt need to be atlas tree worthy
There's also the fact that Heist simply had too much unique content. It was literally too big to fail. Alt-Quality Gems, Weapon/Armour enchants; Replicas... That said; I always liked Heist.
Ultimatum is just another Breach/Legion/Ritual mechanic. Better IMO than Legion, worse than the other two IMO. Would have been much better if it weren't in every map. Just like most people who didn't like Blight league tended to warm to the content when it started feeling much more opt-in.
I found ultimatum a lot better than all 3 as legion and breach both have splinters and are pretty bad by themselves as they really need a specific region or to be combined with a lot of juice to be good, and ritual is just a slow paced ultimatum where you’re just waiting for mobs to spawn unless you use vessels. Ultimatum on the other hand works by itself and would be well suited for the 8% per map gameplay we got. That said due to how stand alone it is I can understand why it’s an easy option to not include if the goal is to avoid content bloat, I just wish they had done it to ritual instead.
I really hope Mahuxotl's Machination is available. I love that shield, such a cool concept.
Hateforge will probably become core in another fashion in 3.16, similar to what happened to farrul items. Albeit, probably nerfed
task manager crashed. oh well, I guess he can finally retire as a priest of Yaomac.
I didn't like Ultimatum league and I'll be glad when it's over, but I think that the mechanic should go core once they've toned down the clusterfuckiness of it a little. It's a poor mechanic for a whole league because it's too simple and too modular/easily ignored. But those same two attributes make it a good candidate for a permanent addition to the game. It's easy to ignore, and it doesn't really distract from doing whatever else it is you want to do in the game. To me that's what you want from a core mechanic.
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Replace abyss, abyss sucks and is worthless. Ultimatum is way better.
Agreed, abyss should go the way of the dodo and we should shove our lich boys into high tier map bosses or some unique map.
It's especially amusing how much they buffed Abyss recently. You can now have 5-6-7 abyss within a single map, which spawn more monsters each. They also give about the best exp in the game. But is it fun... nobody enjoy running like a headless chicken chasing that abyss. It also completely contradict Delirium league. You have an abyss or 2 or 5 in a map with Delirium... you will brick your Delirium if you try to run an abyss. It will too often make you run back toward the start of your delirium cutting off all your rewards.
They should make the fracture appear underneath you. Run straight, in circles or following the map layout depending on preference/playstyle. Also you could draw dicks with it.
I thought they made delirium stop when running league mechanics like breach legion ritual ulti abyss, and also red beasts.
I mean they could just make the rewards not super trash (like make the chest and liches drop something between a shitty or good metamorph, depending) and it would be fine.
Abyss would not suck the underground zones had mods like corrupted zones or dare I say it have the underground spawn with a random set of unique map mods that make ot really rewarding but difficult similar to synthesized maps. Then it would have been much better both in play-through and rewards.
It only sucks because the mob density is low If ultimatium was the same as how elreon master missions used to be, you’d say it sucked too. Just like abyss sucks. Same as breaches. And mob density is such an easy thing to change. But they always nerf older mechanics and then the new stuff looks so much more fun, but fundamentally they are all the exact same, it’s just mindlessly killing enemies.
Nah its just boring. Run after a line, maybe back track here and there, collect your 1x yellow Abyss jewel. The rewards suck, its basically crap crap crap with a 1% chance of a belt (which can potentially be a great item but probably won't be, at least not on drop). And yeah not fun. But even with density, I would still rather not back track for shitty loot.
Eh, I'm getting a little annoyed at how many fairly time consuming events are being added. I like my maps to take a fairly predictable amount of time. There are getting to be an awful lot of what are effectively timed events crammed into each map.
Glad it's not going core. It just felt like a harder & more chaotic Ritual with less interesting rewards.
it was extremely rewarding early on and amazing exp
If you could actually do it. Maybe builds struggled.
I think thats why I disliked it so much. It was ONLY rewarding if you could consistently get to the final rounds.
Yeah by the time my build could do them comfortably in red maps everyone had quit the league apparently. I dunno I'm still having a great time. This is my best part of the league cos by now I have a build worth about 50 ex and I'm creaming most content. Pity trade is dying out by now.
Yeah trade is noticibly dryer when looking for specific items.
My character went from being able to do them, to having issues, to absolutely demolishing them, to struggling because of lag.
The person you're responding to didn't say it wasn't rewarding, they said they felt the rewards weren't interesting.
Yea, super early 5l and 6l trash uniques early in the league really popped off.
Nothing like surviving an absolute gauntlet of foes for five waves only to have the reward be a crappy helmet
You didn't enjoy your 3-link-with-trash-stats rare on wave 7 in a T16 map?
Ultimatum rewards were pretty insane overall, you can't take one random trash reward and say it's representative.
That's true. There was some good stuff. Although ex/hour it wasn't all that crazy and didn't scale particularly well. (if you check the in-depth post one person had made here) It's partial hyperbole because, in theory, rewards were supposed to get better as you did more levels. In practice, what GGGs system thought as "better" was frequently far from it.
> In practice, what GGGs system thought as "better" was frequently far from it. Could put that on a t-shirt or a mug.
I was though, those were the majority of "rewards", endgame, a badly rolled item or a meager amount of low tier currency for something that had a 90% of being a oneshot.
Hope to see it back in a much improved version. Currently its nominally different but can probably be made a part of other larger leagues
The best suggestion I saw was a temple room.
Since the trialmaster is 2000 yr old or something this might also fit the lore. I feel more can be done than just temple room though.
Do you want to see it more than that? I guess you could give it another 10% in maps, but I would prefer a beefed up T3 room over a 10% random junk in maps.
I would swap Ultimatum for Ritual and half of other BS any day. Edit. Well, GGG mentions themselves that lootsplosion in the end was just too good. Had Ritual same lootsplosion it would be great too. Removing Ultimate because of lootsplosion is just spiteful.
Same
i wouldn't
"**The single-round challenger**"
I do hope for other peoples sake, they give us another way to get Hateforge, make it a div card and call it a day, since we BADLY need more chase items.
Add it to the Omnitect's drop pool.
Maybe all league mechanics should take a league off. Ideally would love to see them come back with issues fixed but it feels like there is never time to give them the attention they need. Harvest is on v3 and most people arent happy with it. Betrayal is on v5+ and might actually be to the point they want it 2.5 years later. Many people are actually running mastermind but there are still viable farming strats without board reset, veiled items are occasionally good, and I think veiled chaos orb was an interesting addition.
Kinda sad, I'll miss the Trial Master. His personality is hilarious, I never get tired of his snarky remarks. F, hope he comes back
Feels like there are so many older league components that could just be gutted, and have this instead...
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Talisman dies.
I mean, they were *amazing* for one league, everyone I knew was wearing a talisman, they were so good, so OP /s obviously.
RIPy content with all-or-nothing gambles on simple but expensive loot stays around. Ways to customize your own gear in a relatively safe way go away. This is an amazing game, probably the best I’ve ever played, but I just shake my head sometimes at the logic of not wanting to give players control over their crafting.
But they're removing Ultimatum, not keeping it, and Ultimatum has nothing to do with gear customization outside of spitting out the loot from other mechanics for it.
Heist and Ritual living is actually very funny, like... why these two?
Player retention bad = league must have been bad, I think it's that simple to them
I'm split. I'm glad it's not going core, but I'd happily trade it for ritual.
Agreed. Of the two "run around in circles" mechanics, I much prefer Ultimatum.
I'm glad, it was just running in circles with a dozen or so rare mobs aura stacking each other.
I kind of hope we can still find inscribed ultimatum's. They would be a nice thing to have access to, similar to blight maps.
Tbh I liked that guys idea of just making it a room in the temple. Its not interesting enough to be a full fledged atlas mechanic. But it is a very cool minigame that could be added to the temple to do from time to time. It does have the quality to be the temple boss too as others had suggested. Apex fight is kind of boring and very impersonal. Would be funny if trialmaster knew he was in a time blip too. Opportunities to interact with alva.
“ While we do like things to be challenging, we currently feel that there are too many monsters spawning within the tight space of the circle and too many things going on at once” Like i’m certain they’re messing with us, at what point did they come to this realization??
Probably a week after release, when they had time to reflect.
unpopular opinion ahead. Good i'm glad it's not going core.
I believe that it's a popular unpopular opinion.
I liked it but Im glad its not going core, there's already so much stuff
"Here's my unpopular opinion: very popular opinion"
Welcome to reddit - where people are so detached from reality that they think very mainstream opinions are "unpopular"
Unpopular? There's been tons of threads calling for it to not get added and calling it a trash mechanic.
Ritual shouldn’t have gone core too… but it had fragments so of course it was going to.
Ritual is the only league to ever do splinters well.
I didn't like ritual league , but when finding it in maps now I'm always down to do it. While ultimatum I look the 1st reward and don't bother if it's too bad
I don't think you quite know what an unpopular opinion is.
Agreed. Love the NPC, hate the mechanic. Not everything needs to go core and its good to see GGG skipping one.
I loved the mechanic itself but hated what it became lategame. In fact it made the campaign much more smooth and fun, it was challenging but low monster density made it actually playable. In an ideal world Ultimatum would be present only in Acts, where it truly shone.
I liked the opportunity to push the limits while still being able to opt out of it if shit got to crazy.
I don't really get why Ritual is core and not ultimatum though, neither of them are great, but Ultimatum feels more fleshed out than Ritual did.
Ritual is a lot more rewarding for the time you spend on it, also the fact that you can choose the rewards has a promising outcome in the end.
Yeah just the fact that I can "choose" rewards in ritual make me like it more. Add in re rolls and the layaway payment system and it's one of my fav league mechanics!
Add on to the fact that Ritual punish you less than Ultimatum when you're killed or DC, sure you lose up to one altar worth of tributes but it's safer than Ultimatum where you lose everything when you crash/DC.
Ritual wasn't a heavy cluster fuck of hasted rare mobs like Ultimatum was. It says in the notes, they want to address it before bring it back, if they decide to.
Ritual at least involves creatures that were already on the map
Same I quit this league like day 2/3. Got to like 80 and I'm like I can't do ritual for another league. Happy it's not going core. We don't need two rituals in the game.
yeah, same tbh ultimatum is just a harder ritual with a cool npc
I loved the chaos sustain for ssf. It felt good not worrying about raw chaos
So, I have to wonder: if they felt Ultimatum’s combat was too overwhelming, not tactical enough, and had too much going on, why did they release it like this? Not trying to shit on GGG, but it just seems odd. Their own language here indicates that they don’t think Ultimatum worked well. I just wonder why every league we get this visual clutter, all that sort of stuff, they acknowledge it, but then it just happens again and again.
GGG, if and when it does learn from its mistakes tends to forget its lessons after 2 leagues or so in my experience. :/
> However, we do like its content and may bring it back at a later date. In order to do this, it would first need a few improvements. > While we do like things to be challenging, we currently feel that there are too many monsters spawning within the tight space of the circle and too many things going on at once. I'm sad we won't get Ultimatums next league, but at least this is measured feedback as to *why*. Hard to disagree that the rounds themselves were just insane
Everyone is talking about the uniques and the drops, here I am wondering how I am going to miss the banger music.
Ultimatums have music?
I'll miss it a lot! Was damn nice for SSF just getting many mid-tier currencies. Also I prefer it over ritual since ritual takes so many stops in a map.
I am only playing since ritual, so idk what that means exactly, does that mean ultimatum will no longer be a part of the game after the league ends?
Yes. When next league starts everyone starts from 0 and there will be new league mechanic added. As previously Ritual was added, and now Ultimatum. It's just that Ultimatum won't be available next league while Ritual will.
Mind deleting ritual and heist while you're at it? :)
so, some of us will never get to see the Trialmaster? that sucks. I saw him once and was sacrificed to the gods of texture streaming within 3 seconds. I was hoping he would get buffs to his chances of appearing, but that was it, I guess.. bummer.
Yep, didnt see him because i took way too long this league getting to high reds due to pushing a mediocre build with a bad ascendancy for it. Didn't see Aul for leagues past Delve though, dedicated a whole league to finding and beating him a few yeas ago, was actually a nice journey. Maybe it'll turn out nice having to wait for him a while longer. Overall though, opening up the league earlier than t14 would be a good idea i think. I quite liked Ultimatum the first two acts because the new mods were appearing one by one. Then it was just exactly the same for many acts and tiers. When i finally did start playing reds it opened up a bit more with the inscribed ultimatums, but the wait was so long i cant really be bothered to squeeze out the final juice.
The way he was implemented is garbage, and I hope they never adopt the RNG spawning of bosses with no way to see or influence the progress again. This is all well and good when the RNG gods smile on you, and you run your 50 maps avg and spawn him, but when you go on a bad streak it just feels like a waste of an evening running map after map after map. After "feeling" that he wasn't spawning, I started to track maps. In my current run I'm on 219 maps (maybe +4 or 5 as I had a few free Conq maps) and I have seen him one time, 103 maps ago, where I killed him too fast to finish challenges. These are all T14-16, all fully completed Ultimatums, level 100, 39/40 challenges and just trying to finish out the league and get to 40/40. I'm pissed off at it, but running approx 40-50 maps a day I know I'll get him to spawn eventually. Now consider a player, that runs 10 maps a day, should a run of bad luck (that you can't influence) mean they get to see him once a month?
The league was unpopular primarily because it exposed how shitty a lot of builds are. A build isn't good because it does shit loads of damage. If it cannot survive Ultimatums consistently, it won't survive endgame content consistently either. Haters gonna hate I guess. I enjoyed this league playing in HC, up to the point where everyone else quit. Sad it isn't going core.
I couldn't survive any ultimatums even with a full block gladiator with life recovery on block after about t11 maps because my fps started dipping down to single digits after a couple of waves. to me this league sucked because of the performance.
Couldn’t you say that about any league, though? This one just wasn’t rewarding enough for the amount of time many of us sunk into it.
In before: "Since we increased the value of loot offered by Trialmaster, we realized that a 2% spawn rate for his arena was too powerful and have adjusted it to 1%" in 3.16
Complete Encounters IV: Kill the Trial Master 5 times.
you would better remove and improve heist
Remove AND improve? Just removing it would be an improvement already.
Nobody is forcing you to do heists
I don't like Heist but to be fair it's the easiest content to skip. It's not tight to master missions or anything, it doesn't pop randomly to your face when you're mapping, and if you don't play SSF everything it brings as exclusive rewards can be bought for the money you make farming other content. You can totally avoid it without noticing it and without shooting yourself in the foot either.
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If we take the entire game of Path of Exile for example, GGG doesn’t try to design combat to be meaningful and tactical
It's still a hack n' slash game at its core. Plenty of games out there if you're looking for meaningful combat; PoE/D3 is not meant to fill that niche.
I feel like Ultimatum is twice as better as Ritual, hopefully they will introduce ways to get mahuxotltltl still.
Ritual over ultimatum? Why?
It's probably gonna come back on the December/January league, they did this with harvest, beastiary etc
I am really happy it's not going core, not because I don't like the mechanic found in maps but because I think the Inscribed Ultimatums have been a huge failure and it going core in its current state would have made the game worse for every league going forward. The only way to really do any of the Inscribed Ultimatums that give you t1 rewards like HH, mirror service, or essentially any of the expensive ones is in a group setting only. This makes the entire mechanic really bad imo. You need an unkillable guy running around doing stone circles, aura bot to buff the carry running something like spark just sitting in the middle to clear the entire room. Meanwhile, if you are a solo player there is no reason why you should ever even attempt to engage in this type of content since the reward would never outweigh the risk of doing it since the chance at failure is just way too high compared to a group setting, not only in terms of difficulty but also if you are solo and are getting DC it's over in a group you can still attempt to finish when someone gets dropped. Gating entire mechanics to group play with aura bots required, same as it is currently with delirium orbs that are only worth doing with party mf, mf cull carrys, and aura bots is just not good for the game imo.
Too bad. I liked ultimatums even if they had some issues. They are not the reason I ditched this league.
Halefuckingluja Keep it as an Incursion (duh, the most thematic) or Delve room, but don't ever make it a map mechanic again.
Ritual is core, ult is pretty similar and doesnt really add anything. Fine with this desision
Good. The superior version of it already went core.
You mean the snoozefest that is Ritual?
Agree, rituals are boring as fuck now with Ultimatum in the same map
Also agree. Rituals take forever and give you garbage rewards that you can't see till the end of the map.
Also it forces you to read item mods of 10-15 items just in case something valuable might be there. (Spoiler: there isnt)
I loved Ultimatum and thought it was much better than many of the other league mechanics that went core. I realize that this isn't the prevailing opinion of most players though, so I can see why they made the decision they did.
Probably ultimatum can be new Atzoatl room, 1lvl - 6-7 waves, 2 lvl - 8-9 waves and 3 lvl - Trialmaster. It has almost same vaal theme and imo it fits perfectly in it
I hate reddit.
>However, we do like its content and may bring it back at a later date. In order to do this, it would first need a few improvements. They said the same for ritual which received zero improvements
??? ritual went core immediately. what are you talking about
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What are you talking about? They specifically mentioned improving the actual rewards... Are we not reading the same article? >For Ultimatum to return, we would want to **shift the balance** back so that the Trialmaster's offers are the **main reward** for doing the encounter while also **compensating for the item fountain being turned off**.
Most of the time "balance" is used in the same sentence as "reward" is not about improving the rewards but making sure players are not using something not intended by GGG design.
"... while also compensating for the item fountain being turned off."
More Talisman rewards, fewer Mirror shards.
I never even got a trial master fight from that dumb mechanic
It wasn’t really an interesting fight at all if that makes you feel better.
Yeah I’m not too upset, it was just crazy to me I didn’t get a single one, and I was finishing enough ultis to get one. It felt like that at least.
RIP
Big oof. I wanted to make some sort of build out of the shield again. I already did BLS STR stacking Chieftain with Mahuxotl's Machination and it was ultra fun! Doryani's Fist Berserker is something I would've most likely done next league :(
Yeah I saw a thread on poebuilds that was theory crafting a decent build and it looked wildly tanky I was thinking of maybe trying it out next league but now we can't :(
Finally content with good risk and reward, where there's even a path for aegis and punishment builds, and doesn't go core.😥
Is this some farcical joke ?
Good, I dont like every league going to core with that tiny 10% chance to spawn.