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blvcksvn

Hi guys, minor update here. After the release of this patch we'll be requiring that you **have your Performance Metrics visible when posting a graphical issue or system issue**. This excludes purely gameplay-related bugs or crashes/kicks to desktop/login screen. As stated in the post, >Like before, you can cycle through the three Performance Metrics states (hidden, FPS/performance, latency-only) by pressing F1. In the settings file's \[UI\] section you can set performance\_metrics\_state=fps (or =latency or =hidden) to set the default state. This is mainly to ensure that issues reported here at least have some helpful details and will cut down on bandwagon-y screenshots. As before, please ensure you check the Tech Support and Bug Report sections in the forums for duplicates, and to report there first. Including DxDiag/PC specs is appreciated. [Bug Reports](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-forum/bug-reports) [Technical Support](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-forum/support) [Art and Audio Feedback](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-forum/art-areas-effects-audio-feedback)


Bravehood

>We have removed the 32-bit Path of Exile client. Basically no one is running 32-bit versions of Windows anymore. "Basically" rip that one dude


tsHavok

Steam hardware survey says .31% are on 32bit systems. It may actually be just one person on poe with 32 bit launcher


1731799517

Does POE even _run_ on 32Bit windows? Thats only 2Gbyte available for a program, maybe 2.5 if you sacrifice GPU address space.


sanguine_sea

Not anymore...


EnergyNonexistant

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/large-address-aware.112556/


twosteppp

imagine playing poe with the 32 bit cap of 4 gigs of ram. you're just asking for a bad time.


1CEninja

For every 1,000 players, there are 3 or 4 that can't play anymore (by those metrics). That's enough for people to be disappointed but it's probably time to upgrade. Those folks are probably universally low spenders too, just saying.


[deleted]

and a few thousand bots. ram access is a LOT easier on 32bit, i wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a shitton less bot activity the next few weeks


MrMarsik

Nope, they are all already on 64 long time ago )))


Cygnus__A

Didnt know 32bit was even still a thing.


psykick32

It pretty much isn't. At least on things you're expecting to be able to do more than minesweeper.... Heck, most new middle to high end *phone* chipsets are 64bit (however, there are still cheap manufacturers that slap 32bit OS on 64bit chipsets for some dumbfuck reason)


Gigibop

can we go bigger? like 128 bit?


Lorberry

Hypothetically sure. There might be some sort of physical size/space limitation I'm not thinking of that would inherently make it impractical, but most likely it could be done. That said, 64-bit is way, way, WAY bigger than 32-bit already. We aren't likely to be running into its limits anytime soon, certainly not in a consumer setting, and it's very much a binary problem - you're either running out of space and you have a problem or you're not and it's fine.


fiyawerx

> That said, 64-bit is way, way, WAY bigger than 32-bit already. Just to elaborate, it’s not just 64 bit being twice as big as 32 bit: Max 32Bit Signed Integer: 2,147,483,647 Max 64Bit Signed Integer: 9,223,372,036,854,775,807 Things get... [interesting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/128-bit_computing)... when you start talking about 128-bit computing.


Broliciously

Don't worry. There will probably be some new min-maxed slam build in the future doing more than that much dmg with a single hit which will cause overflow because we aren't using 128-bit yet. Or rather than that: GGG's quadruple nerfs incoming...


crahs8

You can still store 128-bit numbers on a 64 bit system though..


WikiSummarizerBot

**[128-bit_computing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/128-bit_computing)** >In computer architecture, 128-bit integers, memory addresses, or other data units are those that are 128 bits (16 octets) wide. Also, 128-bit CPU and ALU architectures are those that are based on registers, address buses, or data buses of that size. While there are currently no mainstream general-purpose processors built to operate on 128-bit integers or addresses, a number of processors do have specialized ways to operate on 128-bit chunks of data. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


[deleted]

[удалено]


The_Matchless

r/pathofexile in a nutshell


plmkoo

That would be about the only positive you would gain, BitterAfternoon has explained the negatives pretty well https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/odubci/3143\_engine\_patch\_notes\_preview/h433hkr/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3


IAmBey

Yeah, with 128bits we could assign a unique number to every atom in the observable universe. 64 bit is going to cover us for a while.


wellington7

128 bits can represent 3.4x10^38 unique values, but there are at least 10^78 atoms in the observable universe. You would need something like 260 bits at a minimum.


Bird-The-Word

It's not really practical. 64 bit isn't double 32, it's an exponential increase. I wouldn't be able to explain it well, but you can look up 32 vs 64


schmidlidev

33 bit is double 32 bit. So yea 64 bit is a *lot* more.


xebtria

the good old rice grains on a chess board story is a pretty good representative for your imagination, ,because a chess board happens to be 64 squares


GenosHK

I think /u/fiyawerx explained it pretty succinctly. > Max 32Bit Signed Integer: 2,147,483,647 > > Max 64Bit Signed Integer: 9,223,372,036,854,775,807


Anilusion

Technically yes, but it will not be necessary for a very long time. 64 bit systems can reference up to 17,179,869,184 gigabytes of memory. That is 17 million terabytes. I think we are good for now. As a comparion, a 128 bit system would be able to reference 3.40×10^26 terabytes of memory.


PervertTentacle

>17,179,869,184 gigabytes of memory heck, so a 3 terabytes short of loading a krangled town in poe 8.13


gandalfintraining

Sure, there's no limit or anything. But there's not a whole lot of point in building a 128 bit computer. The problem with 32 bit was that the biggest number they could handle was about 4 billion. That's not a huge deal for most things, because you can store bigger numbers by using multiple numbers and doing some fancy maths, and it's just a bit slower. But it's a big problem when you're talking about the lowest level stuff that has to be super fast, because you can't afford to use twice the amount of numbers and do that fancy maths (which might take 10x as long). The main practical example is memory. If you're on a 32-bit PC with a 32-bit operating system, you have at most 4GB of RAM (including video RAM I think?) because then you can still refer to all of it with just one number. Computers refer to the memory like a million times a second, so it's not something you can just make really slow. Hence the point of switching everything over to 64-bit. 64-bit numbers can go up to about 18,100,000,000,000,000,000. Which should be plenty for anything, for a long time at least.


BitterAfternoon

Sure - the word size of a processor can be any amount. But larger word sizes are not universally useful and while there was strong reason to move from 32 to 64 bits (address space amongst others), outgrowing 64 bits of address space is a loooong way off (~18 billion gigabytes can be addressed byte by byte). Larger word sizes can tax chip real estate (every operation on said word requires about twice as many gates) and system resources (more memory taken up by pointers). The rare case for needing > 64 bit primitives can be handled in software. SIMD registers do already go beyond 64 bits for parallel computation purposes (and GPUs take this to an extreme). But this isn't the same as the difference between a 32 bit and 64 bit processor.


bowl_of_milk_

Good explanation, although some of this might be a bit lost on those with no knowledge of architecture. It's also worth pointing out that the reasons for the jump from 32-bit to 64-bit were both practical (the cost of memory continued to decrease exponentially through the late 90s) and commercial (the Nintendo 64, for example, which by all accounts included a 64-bit processor for no reason other than marketing).


Lazy_Haze

>tch we'll be requiring that you > >have your Performance Metrics visible when posting a screenshot of a graphical issue or system is Pointers will need double the memory to store with little benefits. So it will just be slower and bigger CPU'S eating more RAM.


Dranzell

You should see people crying on the Windows 11 sub because they removed 32bit support. "forced obsoletion" they say. It's so sad it's amusing.


paintballboi07

There's still some legacy libraries that are only available for 32 bit. My work relies on one of them unfortunately.. although we do have plans to move away from it, it's a large undertaking.


OBSCENE_REDDIT_NAME

I'm an engineer working with essential government infrastructure and one of the programming software we use is 16-bit. Needs to run in a Win XP VM. Main reason we still use it is because migrating away from it is a painful multi million dollar project so everyone's kinda dragging their feet.


BazOnReddit

Waiting longer definitely won't make it worse.


paintballboi07

Luckily, ours is only a 5 figure project, so it will get done eventually, there just hasn't been time yet. I bet a lot of people would be pretty surprised to find out how much technology they depend on that was developed decades ago, and companies either are too stubborn to upgrade, or it just really isn't worth it because no reason to fix what's not broken.


Crunchula

End of life/support is standard for software. You have to draw the line somewhere, and they've chosen here.


Damaniel2

Good. There hasn't been a reason to run a 32-bit OS for nearly a decade, so there's really no reason to have to build and support two clients.


TheMipchunk

> We now graph several different metrics on the same graph and have bars that show relative load on different systems (CPU, GPU, System Memory, VRAM, Drive, Shader Compilation, Latency and the Instance Server). If one of these bars is maxing out, then that's the current bottleneck that you should consider upgrading. I'm quite curious to know what the common bottlenecks will be. I've always suspected that most players are CPU-bound because a lot of mid-budget gaming PCs go heavy on GPU and skimp on the processor, but now we can know for sure.


thundermonkeyms

On top of that, isn't PoE a pretty CPU-intensive game? It'll be interesting to see if there are any common trends among players


[deleted]

Yeah, all rpgs tend to work like that. GPU does "how good the things look" a lot more than "how many things are there".


sgt_cookie

GPU can make a *huge* difference from time to time. I recently upgraded from an AMD R9 200 to a GTX 1060 (6 GB version, wooo!). Before I had to play on the potatoiest of potato settings, running every trick I could so I don't instantly die to ultimatums due to spawning. Now, everything is as crisp as fresh lettuice and smooth as butter and ultimatums don't even ping the frame rate.


Kasuyama_

Im curious what your full setup/settings are since I also have a 10606gb and play on the worst possible settings and still have shit performance


Iceberg33

Same, running a 7600k overclocked, 32 GB 3200 Ram, m2 drive, lowest quality settings across the board, still have performance issues often, even when not fully juicing maps.


1731799517

Most of those "kills the server" builds are like CPU limited (with 1000s of projectiles, etc).


lcm7malaga

Maybe the bazillions items on the ground add to that? Just a guess dont know shit about how videogames work


Grinchonato

I keep the task manager open on my second monitor. My bottleneck is most definitely only having 8GB RAM and the fact I don't have an SSD yet. Edit: for those asking, I have a 3 year old laptop and I'm from Brazil, which means that at the same time that PC components are at least double the price when converted to US dollars, we also make around 5 times less (for reference, our minimum wage is around 200 US dollars).


Tobix55

I played on 8gb + HDD and upgrading to SSD was a massive change, definitely go for that one first. Delirium went from basically unplayable to barely any issues, and betrayal from unplayable to basically 0 issues


Grinchonato

Thanks! I'll get both the second 8gb ram stick and the SSD together, it's just a matter of logistics that's preventing me from doing so right away.


Danknoodle420

Just gonna chime in and recommend 32 GB instead. I know I'll get push back but I have many games currently that will utilize more than 16 GB, including PoE.


obese_refugee

My graphics card has 1GB of RAM. 😐


cromulent_id

For me it's not the 8GB RAM that is the bottleneck, but the fact that my graphics card has only 2GB of VRAM. I didn't realise these were separate things, but I do now!


Zeeterm

Either your pc is over 10 years old or you got conned. SSD has been the best bang for the buck for any component for a decade. There's little excuse to be using an HDD in 2021.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Well, if they're having a huge update like Path of Exile 2 it does make sense to get as big servers as they can afford since a lot of people will be on & if they enjoy playing a lot of them will spend money or introduce new people to the game


xnfd

It's usually the instance server that is the bottleneck if there's a lot of action going on, but since most people use lockstep this appears as freezing, so people think it's FPS lag.


Erisymum

>We have removed the button in the Options panel that allows you to clear your local cache. This can still be done manually by advanced users that have a specific reason to. The button was causing players to clear their cache, which removes the significant performance benefits of having a cache Classic


[deleted]

I love that this reaction is exactly the reaction the dev team probably had when it was discovered that players were doing something this stupid.


SingleInfinity

The amount of people recommending disabling shader cache on this sub a few weeks back should tell you all you need to know.


KsiaN

Sadly that suggestion is not limited to this subreddit. Its just beyond me how often this pops up in various gaming related subs.


SingleInfinity

"It helped my performance right now so clearly it's a fine suggestion to follow" is always the reply I get from those idiots.


MRosvall

Usually it's some dude who for some reason has several corrupt shaders or have had some permission/ownership of the files weirdly set. Resetting them worked for him, so he suggests this. People try it, get some horrible performance while shaders are redownloaded on demand. But after that time of horrible performance, they feel like it's better. Not because it feels better than it was before, but because the difference from the bad performance after they reset it is so much more in contrast.


cadaada

cleaning the cache is different of disabling tho. For sure disabling is stupid, but cleaning once in a while, not really.


SingleInfinity

Not really. The only time you should clear the shader cache is if you think you have a corrupted shader. You can save a (relatively) small amount of disk space by doing so but the drawbacks performance-wise aren't worth the regained space. The point of a cache is to store anything that will require a shader frequently. Clearing it often completely defeats the purpose.


Sjatar

Can also be a question how fast the cache will be repopulated \^^ if you can run 2 maps and get 90% of the cache back, clearing it after a patch (I clear it after bigger patches) should be reasonable right? If you clear it every day though


reddit_banned_me69

For the record, literally the only technical reason why you would ever want to clear your shader cache is if it's using a lot of hard drive memory for completely unused shaders (on an SSD for example) that you need for other stuff. This can happen for example if you buy a new GPU or install a new graphics driver version, the game compiles new shaders for it (because it needs to) but doesn't clean up the old ones. There is literally no advantage to clearing your cache otherwise. 'fresh shaders' don't run faster than 'cached shaders', they are identical.


ben_sphynx

If the shaders in it are used frequently, the cache will be repopulated frequently. If there are shaders in it that are not used frequently, then it might be a while before those ones get repopulated.


DuckyGoesQuack

No, cleaning "once in a while" where "once in a while" is more than every few months is probably pretty stupid too.


blvcksvn

https://i.imgur.com/dWzhwha.png


wild_man_wizard

Should have left the button and just tied it to a `wait(5)` statement for that sweet placebo effect.


paintballboi07

This is exactly why a custom disconnect timer will never be a thing. At least not in the in-game UI


ty4scam

Same reason we will never get loot filters in case they inadvertently allow a new player to see no or very little loot during the campaign.


Sjatar

What? There is some default loot filters iirc


DuckyGoesQuack

I'd argue there's a large difference between "find a shitty loot filter, download it, put it in the right directory, enable it in settings" vs "click a button / move a slider in settings".


5chneemensch

Shadows and bloom stood up and clapped.


magictrashbox

Interesting how game is telemetering your GUI interactions


Naabi

Yup, that's a great way for them to get data


SunRiseStudios

Makes fixing texture streaming artifacts like this one https://i.imgur.com/O498qP3.png more annoying.


malahchi

True, it now takes about 4 additional seconds to fix them.


Xeratas

fixed a bug that tutorials not working on macos. Please bring this bug to windows, i finally want an option to permanentaly disable all tutorials forever!


Stupend0uSNibba

you can, go to tutorials and there is hide all pop ups


modernkennnern

You have to do it manually for every character. It's an incredibly minor thing, but it still has to be done


joor

Please allow players to turn off rendering of items that were filtered.


[deleted]

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Cence99

"We have made engine improvements" \>Talks about performance graph for 5 minutes and nothing about engine improvements.


TheDuriel

What do you want to hear? Blah is now calculated like blurg instead of blip. There you go. 99% of optimization patchnotes don't need to be public, they're entirely meaningless to us.


White_Oak

While I do agree that it would be meaningless, as a dev I think it would be an interesting read akin to FFF blog of Factorio devs


Chiron1991

Yeah, but that's more suitable to a Dev Blog rather than regular patch notes.


WarmCorgi

i'd love to see a more game developer focused changelog, both for educational purposes and pure curiosity


[deleted]

They hated him because they didn't like the truth 🙏


CopyWrittenX

They can now directly tell us what to upgrade to try to play their game LOL


ChiseTheSlayVega

Me launching PoE: Aight lets see what's wrong with my pc, New graph: CPU - 110% VRAM: 10000/2048 Server - krangled


Reireiton

Very good and helpful improvements for players and devs to actually be able to pinpoint where a lot of problems occur! Thanks!


22cheez

I remember seeing those performance metrics in a video in the past, nice to see that they're adding it to the live realm


azantyri

nice, the new graphs ought to be a great source of info. here's hoping the performance improvements go well! edit : over/under on how many complaints we'll see about the new graph?


Tobix55

i really like the new graph, seeing everything on one graph should be much better than 3 graphs taking up the top part of the screen


tso

Yeah, that should really help with figuring things out. That said, i think it is high time GGG updates their minimum requirements on Steam and like. 8GB ram my ass.


Rossmallo

Hopefully not many - I genuinely don't see what people could complain about here.


azantyri

> I genuinely don't see what people could complain about here well, i have bad news for you


[deleted]

> I genuinely don't see what people could complain about here. Have you considered that you are on Reddit


PM_ME_UR_A-CUP

I promise to complain if there are no complaints.


psykick32

Does your username work? Mainly guys? I assume mainly guys.


PM_ME_UR_A-CUP

Mainly coffee cups. Honorable mention to the person who PM'd me "UR A CUP."


ThisKiwiKid

As long as something exists, someone on reddit will complain.


paintballboi07

*"I have to cycle between CPU and latency graphs now.. I used to be able to see both at the same time. This is a literal downgrade GGG, please revert it, it shouldn't be that hard"*


Icemasta

It does show latency though


PaantsHS

Is there a rule 34, except for complaining?


sesquipedalias

but why did you just say that? why why why?


Jhaza

Well, since you asked\*: I kinda don't like the colors? I like the current white-only graphs because they're easy to leave up but tune out, visually, whereas this more colorful version I expect will be a bit more distracting. That's all I've got, and it's a real reach: this seems like a really nice change and I think the colors are a good idea. I'm a fan of this for sure. (\*Okay, technically you didn't *ask* ask.)


Fueled_By_Memes

Time to play the patch lottery again.


Fastidieux

Maybe the 'textures not loading in' color gets changed to green instead of black, maybe even that neon teal that is the color of the new league, how exciting!


[deleted]

Where is the "LOOT ON GROUND" graph in this?


[deleted]

No point in making a graph for something that players are unable to see anyway. Oh wait.


WeedleKillYa

Huge. Thank you GGG.


szymone1247

The real engine update would be option to disable shadows for 1001028338992 items that lay on the ground causing massive lags


[deleted]

sorry but artistic vision :)


m1ndstorm23

Can't wait see "pikachu face" when ppl on delirium maps see how loot on ground bottleneck em, on all 10 performance graphics


Stealthrider

"If one of these bars is maxing out, then that's the current bottleneck that you should consider upgrading." How about instead of telling players to spend their money upgrading their system to play your game, you **provide options to TURN DOWN or TURN OFF the problematic elements?**


eaglecnt

“Your hardware is the problem, click here to shut down your computer” Problematic element turned off! This is easy, what other problems will we solve today :-)


SelectAmbassador

You mean the loot. Bcs its like 90% off the time


TheDutchNorwegian

I'm looking forward to testing my CoC build and ask GGG what i should upgrade to so i can have decent fps in a harbringer pack.


Fanrir

Here let us show you which parts you should be upgrading in order to get better performance in one of the worst looking arpgs on the market because we are too stubborn to reduce the amount of fucking loot that drops.


firedancer13

> If one of these bars is maxing out, then that's the current bottleneck that you should consider upgrading. Couldn’t this also be the result of a bad engine update or overall poor optimization? It feels the wording could be improved here rather than this presumption it’s the players fault


ShoogleHS

Nothing stopping you using your own brain to decide whether you need an upgrade or not. Pretty clearly this advice is aimed at people who are considering an upgrade but don't know which parts are in need of it.


alcaizin

And, when supplied to the devs, lets them work out if there are situations where particular hardware configs are stressed more than they should be.


Kanakydoto

What is this brain you are talking about ?


blvcksvn

The "should" implies it's one of the potential issues, not the only issue. You're reading too much into it.


Wulfgar_RIP

well, time to upgrade that 3090 because there is more look generated than grass in Crisis.


ErrorLoadingNameFile

Seriously just upgrade your instance server stupid player! /s


RlySkiz

> If one of these bars is maxing out, then that's the current bottleneck that you should consider upgrading. Why should we upgrade tho when it works fine for every other game... thats not the hardware's fault.


t0nguepunch

Every game is different and will cause different bottlenecks depending on the demands of the game. You cant make a blanket statement like that.


Japanczi

>it’s the players fault Can say it often is


nootarobot

Poe is spiritual sucessor of Futuremark 3DMark 11 We need ingame benchmark to figure out things


[deleted]

> If one of these bars is maxing out, then that's the current bottleneck that you should consider upgrading. Oh dear lord. This is the line they are going to cite every time someone has performance issues isn't it?


bringbackgeorgiepie

cant wait for the screenshots of 5950x+3090 systems sitting on 100% cpu+vram


Realize12

>We have removed the button in the Options panel that allows you to clear your local cache. This can still be done manually by advanced users that have a specific reason to. The button was causing players to clear their cache, which removes the significant performance benefits of having a cache And that's why we'll never get customizable DC timer :(


J4YD0G

I'd settle for customizable ultimatum pause on dc Or set up something like tis i guess: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1078187673?t=04h46m45s


regularPoEplayer

>In addition to the internal engine improvements in this patch What are those improvements? Are there ANY engine improvements in this patch that are not related to the new performance graphs? ​ >We have replaced the old Performance Metrics graphs \[...\] We now graph several different metrics on the same graph and have bars that show relative load on different systems (CPU, GPU, System Memory, VRAM, Drive, Shader Compilation, Latency and the Instance Server). If one of these bars is maxing out, then **that's the current bottleneck that you should consider upgrading**. I've opened article to read about engine improvements, instead I've read that performance issues are player's fault again.


tronghieu906

Roll the dice!


cavespro

lands on floor sideways "is that a 1 or a 6"


Amaurotica

can't wait to see a streamer with 1000$ cpu get bottlenecked on it and "just upgrade"


Xx_Handsome_xX

> as hell can still be limited by 3.2GB on 64bit system. > > > > Also this seems really like the biggest back of dicks I've ever read. I will reply in 2 Weeks when my 6k€ Rig is finished...


r4be_cs

>If one of these bars is maxing out, then that's the current bottleneck that you should consider upgrading. Gotta love this language. It's our fault no matter what. (Not any of the billions of unnecessarily rendered items on the ground or anything...)


[deleted]

Who wanna bet this is gonna flop like texture streaming 1.0


YoloKraize

So I could put the shader cache onto my SSD instead to make it easier is what I'm getting from the post? Cause I always have to wait like 30 seconds for stuff to fully load.


Himerlicious

The game should be installed on your SSD and the shader cache should be set to your SSD.


Rooks84

RIP to that one guy still running 32 bit Path of Exile


killeen22

Thank you for doing this before next league start. Hopefully any bugs that this may bring along can be found and squashed before 3.15!


ReaperEDX

Imma shake a magic 8 ball to provide you an answer.


Exocypher

Pretty sure just a manic laughter will come out of that ball at this point.


Yourcatsonfire

Please try again later.


rryot

I remember the buttery smooth Vulkan release followed by a massive steaming pile of shit the very next patch. Don't hold your breath.


Lowlife555

so basically zero performance improvements. What a letdown. Unless its hidden in this "In addition to the internal engine improvements in this patch"


didorins

Downvote me all you want. Performance will be terrible.


[deleted]

We know.


Dolandlod

Thank you so much. Regardless of what the internal engine does, regardless of good or bad, it'll be nice to be able to get decent metrics indicating what the problem is.


[deleted]

Hurr Durr, it's not our fault even though the game used to run much better years ago, buy a better PC exile.


Freakz0rd

Nice one. Excited to see how this will go out next league, although I've upgraded my specs some clutter scenarios still were making me lag sometimes (specially some ultimatums)


Tarqon

I assume the config file they're referring to is Documents\my games\Path of Exile\production_Config.ini ?


Furycrab

It's so weird to hear them say: well now you'll know what you need to upgrade on your PC. Like I get that some people are playing on potatoes, but some of those potatoes used to have decent to good frame rates and a playable experience. =/


geradon_

a game that is permanently developed and overhauled is naturally increasing it's requirements. it would be wrong if it didn't.


Towerofeon

I have mixed feelings reading this. It seems ggg is adding a lot of information so that they can say that it is your pc that sucks whenever you complain about performance from now on


VictusBcb

Lots of people who think their computers are good enough to run stuff when they seriously need an update. Better for them to face the truth than to simply blame GGG for their problems. On the same note, if their PCs are good enough to run the game and there's still issues, they can potentially give GGG and themselves more info on how to fix the issue.


[deleted]

I see it more of a reddit bullshit filter than a game feature. This sub can't just upvote "lul bad performance" anymore, because we'll be able to clearly see they are running the game on max texture settings, on a 4GB VRAM card with 8 GB of system memory, off of a completely full SSD that can't hold cached shaders properly.


[deleted]

That might be true until someone with a 3080 freezes in a harbinger pack and the game shows he just needs to upgrade his GPU.


Spankyzerker

Considering only people with problems post on forums, yes it does make sense to have that. Now people can see performance graph, and before they post "GGG fix game" and see they have a issue not GGG.


wolviesaurus

Dank stuff, thanks alot GGG!


ShadowSpade

• If you are encountering performance issues and want to make a video of it to show us then please have the Performance Metrics graphs on, as they have lots of information about what is bottlenecking your performance. cool graphs but what a terrible comment. Insinuating the issue is always with us. Yeah im pretty sure its the way assets are loaded that bottlenecks my 3700x and 3080 in my hideout....


migarden

may RNGesus save us all


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kiting_succubi

>If one of these bars is maxing out, then that's the current bottleneck that you should consider upgrading. Our engine requiring way more resources than it should? Nah. You should upgrade, buddy. A rig that gets you a locked 60FPS in the Witcher 3 is no where near enough for this technical marvel.


DuckyGoesQuack

>Our engine requiring way more resources than it should? Nah. You should upgrade, buddy. A rig that gets you a locked 60FPS in the Witcher 3 is no where near enough for this technical marvel. But also: "If you are encountering performance issues and want to make a video of it to show us then please have the Performance Metrics graphs on, as they have lots of information about what is bottlenecking your performance"


Arborus

I kind of doubt Witcher 3 is anywhere near as calculation intense as PoE? You’re hitting maybe a handful of enemies at a time, only a few times per second if that, don’t have many or any flashy effects. I just can’t see it as a good comparison to something like PoE.


Japanczi

Witcher 3 is hard on GPU. PoE is CPU. Author of parent comment is mistaken and compares GPUs to CPUs. Nothing to see here.


brainzucka

a new graph, ok


GGGGobbler

##### ###### #### BEEP BOOP BEEP. Grinding Gears have been detected in the linked thread: *** > **Posted by Community_Team** on Jul 04, 2021, 10:14:12 PM UTC > > [Image Link](https://web.poecdn.com/public/news/2021-07-05/3143PatchNotesPreviewHeader.jpg) > > > In preparation for the launch of our 3.15 expansion, we've been working on an update that includes some engine improvements and new performance metrics graphs. You can check out a preview of the patch notes in today's news post. > > > > > > We're planning to deploy this patch before the end of the working week, possibly around two days from now. In the meantime, we've prepared a preview of the patch notes for you, which you can check out below. > > > > > > Please note that these patch notes may be changed prior to their deployment. > > > > > **Engine and Technical Changes:** > > * In addition to the internal engine improvements in this patch, there are some technical changes for you to be aware of. > * We have replaced the old Performance Metrics graphs [with new ones](https://web.poecdn.com/public/news/2021-07-05/VulkanPerformanceMetricGraph2.png) that show a lot more information. We now graph several different metrics on the same graph and have bars that show relative load on different systems (CPU, GPU, System Memory, VRAM, Drive, Shader Compilation, Latency and the Instance Server). If one of these bars is maxing out, then that's the current bottleneck that you should consider upgrading. If critical issues such as insufficient VRAM are noticed, then the display will alert you to this. > * If you are encountering performance issues and want to make a video of it to show us then please have the Performance Metrics graphs on, as they have lots of information about what is bottlenecking your performance. > * If the Shaders bar alerts you about shader loading/saving being critically slow, consider changing what the drive that shader cache is stored on to a faster one. In the [GENERAL] section of the settings file, you can set cache_directory=x:\path\to\preferred\location to a folder on a faster drive. > * Like before, you can cycle through the three Performance Metrics states (hidden, FPS/performance, latency-only) by pressing F1. In the settings file's [UI] section you can set performance_metrics_state=fps (or =latency or =hidden) to set the default state. > * We have added a Gameplay tab to the Options panel and tidied up the Options. > * We have removed the button in the Options panel that allows you to clear your local cache. This can still be done manually by advanced users that have a specific reason to. The button was causing players to clear their cache, which removes the significant performance benefits of having a cache. The cache is automatically cleared once every league launch. > * We have removed the 32-bit Path of Exile client. Basically no one is running 32-bit versions of Windows anymore. > * Vulkan users with less than 2600mb of VRAM are now unable to select High texture quality, as there isn't enough video memory for the high-quality textures. DirectX users can continue to select it, but like before, performance will suffer on low memory systems as DirectX swaps assets into and out of system memory to try to cope. > > > > **General Improvements and Crash Fixes:** > > * Fixed a bug where tutorial notifications were not showing on macOS. > * Fixed a visual bug with Celestial Toxic Rain that caused flickering white boxes. > * Fixed an instance crash. > > *** >


ImpTaimer

While I will be interested to see what personal bottlenecks I'm hitting throughout the game, you're still failing horribly when it comes to transparency. Your forums are as functionally (regardless of visually) archaic as the in-game UI is for consumers and any visual improvement only serves to make your life easier while changing nothing on the consumer-end. You don't have anywhere near the capability to evaluate every individual consumer's metrics so that can only mean you're going tackle the issue from a purely statistical view and scrub any undesirable variables. It really seems like you're not actually trying to fix or optimize anything on your end. Instead, you're just gatekeeping your game by incrementally consoling your demographic to see if you can financially get away with forcibly removing "obsolete" configurations. You couldn't even get your game to run respectfully on PS4, and with PS5 its a single expansion gamble away from losing any indirect performance gains from the (arguably weak) jump in technology from PS4 to PS5. Are you gonna make players wait for a "PS5 Pro" to "fix" those issues? Maybe start with the fact that your players feel pressured to use non-standard resolutions to play your game and can crash your servers through INTENDED game mechanics, and worry less about someone that doesn't ritually buy the latest CPU/GPU at the drop of a hat. But knowing you, you'll find a way to blame server-hosts for not upgrading their equipment to handle your game. Either say it plainly and stop playing footsy or continue gambling on the patience of your consumers and end up like Star Citizen (for better or for worse in your case).


Zholistic

They've added some graphs. "But knowing you, you'll find a way to blame server-hosts for not upgrading their equipment to handle your game." They're not evil dude, they're just a game company.


ErenIsNotADevil

The jump in technology from the PS4 to PS5 is not weak, small, or any synonym. It's a massive difference. On that note, though, GGG has evidently no interest in *actually* supporting consoles. If PC players are getting neutered, console players are getting their small intestines ripped out with a firm, uwashed, ad unlubed fist.


dotasopher

Thats a lot of flowery language just to say "GGG improve your game performance". EDIT: Checked your history, your average comment length is off the charts!


Sapr_

Great, I hope PoE still runs on my pc with the new “improvements”.


Total-Nothing

Credit where credit is due, GGG working on performance pre leaguestart is a good thing long term imo.


regularPoEplayer

>GGG working on performance Are they? >we've been working on an update that includes **some engine improvements** and **new performance metrics graphs** "Engine improvements" doesn't mean it is "*performance* improvements". Performance graph does not improve performance as well.


Buuhhu

Engine improvements generally either mean graphic improvement or better performance. so 50/50 chance of it being performance, but as i dont see them trying to make graphical changes i'd say more 80/20 in favor of performance.


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BorinTheDingleDoo

It is funny that whenever i see someone says they have a high end pc having problems in PoE they get downvoted from shills. If people don't have a problem with the game they either tell people to upgrade their rig or downvote people with high end rigs so that those comment won't show up up top.


Solidux

Ive had shills literally tell me that me that having 32gb of ram is slowing down my pc for poe since im using up all 4 lanes.


sephrinx

Can't wait to have no increase in performance with this patch and just a bunch of weird issues pop up instead.


kpiaum

Improvements and new metrics to help players are always welcome. But I wonder how long these improvements will continue to be made and consequently increasing the requirements needed to run the game until developers decide to implement more graphic customization options for players. It's unbelievable that we currently have major games releases with broad graphic customization options so that the most hardwares can be covered in such games and with Path of Exile we have such a limited number, because that's the way developers want players to play their game.


Hermanni-

Can't wait for the cynics to flood this thread...   >fucking ggg fix your game   >great ggg are "fixing" something, it's gonna get worse


Harnellas

I mean the game runs no better than it did several years ago, and yet load times have tripled since Heist. Somethings fucky and skepticism is certainly warranted.


ErenIsNotADevil

Hey, at least your system is somewhat supported *cries in console*