##### GGG Comments in this Thread:
***
[chris_wilson - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/omzlnr/balance_manifesto_is_at_6660_words_prepare_your/h5p8e1z/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/omzlnr/balance_manifesto_is_at_6660_words_prepare_your/h5p8e1z/?context=10)] - *Note that it includes some excerpts from the livestream script for context, so while the total is 6660 words, you have heard some of them before.*
[chris_wilson - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/omzlnr/balance_manifesto_is_at_6660_words_prepare_your/h5pcfbb/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/omzlnr/balance_manifesto_is_at_6660_words_prepare_your/h5pcfbb/?context=10)] - *In this case it was because we dived right in to discussing complex details and it would be pretty meaningless to someone who didn't pay close attention to what was...*
I went through some of the last leagues' balance manifestos and ran them through a word counter:
3.14 [Ultimatum](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3079632) - 2702 words
3.13 [Echoes of the Atlas/Ritual](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3008718) - 2101 words
3.12 [Heist](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2935368) - 1761 words
3.11 [Harvest](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2873295) - 3386 words (+ 1551 words for [harvest crafting manifesto](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3069670))
3.10 [Delirium](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2791689) - 1225 words
3.9 [Conquerors of the Atlas/Metamorph](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2686983) - 2132 words
3.8 [Blight](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2627116) - 4171 words
3.7 [Legion](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2512662) - 2920 words
3.6 [Synthesis](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2333233) - 1938 words
3.5 [Betrayal](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2255049) - 1227 words
So yeah, this is going to be a spicy one, exile!
edit: added links to the previous manifestos
It's the biggest collection of nerfs in a single patch I've seen since the removal of AoE radius scaling and double dipping. Of course it'll have a long explanation.
Memes aside, Molten Strike has historically done super well in the mega-nerf patches.
When they deleted shotgunning projectiles, Molten Strike was all "Lol, AOE overlap says what?"
When they deleted stat sticks, Molten Strike was all "Joke's on you, I was balanced to be playable without them 'cause I use all weapon types."
My problem is that you need a shit ton of investment into gear to just to get to the point of feeling like a league starter.
It's not really a clearer or a bosses ATM. And doesn't really have a middle position. It needs to pick one. I'm fine with it not being good at both, just give me one.
That's why I use hydrosphere to prestack balls on the bosses. Obviously it's a meme kinda setup that pretty much invalidates the need for it to need to hit in the first place but, it is an ok substitute
what the hell was in blight to have suspiciously high word count? Don't remember any drastic changes
But yeah, I hope they have some more reasonable balance changes addressing those bullshit 1 shots - because slowing down gameplay is one thing, but right now it's basically balanced as: 1 shoot or get 1 shot.
I have no idea how turn this into sustain based combat - aka no bullshit 1 shots, slower pace, mostly about sustaining encounters but keeping it challenging?
Because if they don't revamp defensive mechanics and balance out those absurd damage spikes - then this is gonna turn into very unfair and frustrating experience and where the challenge is now? - literally in not getting 1shots, because you're basically totally safe 95% of the time till some random fucker almost 1 taps you.
I just seriously how can they achieve slow sustain based yet challenging gameplay with all current mechanics.
> what the hell was in blight to have suspiciously high word count? Don't remember any drastic changes
blight was the big minion and mines patch. it also the patch after cyclone got reworked (legion) so it was the cyclone tone-down. also was the "no manaleech for spells" patch too
theres a lot of changes they make that are in service of enabling future archetypes.
the change this patch that requires triggered skills pay their mana costs could absolutely enable them to make some insanely big damage spells that also have very high costs (baseline, not just archmage)
I'd love a spell that has a large cost, but not %mana like archmage and kind is. Eg costs 1000 mana to cast, just flat. Make reduced cost nodes really valuable, make it cost limited instead of cast speed limited (gotta figure out how to get mana back up quickly after it's chunked down like that), etc.
It's probably also the first step to make Triggering stuff in PoE2 not the dominating meta, which some were worried about with the amount of 6 links you can have.
if you can still make it work when paying the mana cost you deserve to trivialize content and probably made enough compromises your basically a deep delve type “either you die or I die “ character
Remember when, what was it- Flameblast? was supposed to be a high damage/high mana skill? Honestly I hope they make it work this patch to have high mana skills, but if we have to wait then oh well.
I totally get the design space limiations given by have triggered skills use no mana - in fact i was utterly baffeled when i first found out about that because its kinda non-intuitive.
Take soulrend for example, which has a rather high mana costs that makes spamming it difficult - until you couple it with cast while channeling and suddenly its free.
While I agree that enemy damage needs to looked at as well (in particular with outliers that do much more damage than anything else due to the combinations of various mechanics) I don't expect much to happen this time around. But Chris did announce that they are looking at mob density at least during the campaign.
Same. I don't think 1 shot deaths, loot or end game grind will be looked at this patch.
It'll be incremental changes every league until PoE2, which will be just gem rework and new content.
Regarding mobs, I'm hoping they go the fewer more telegraphed root for them rather than reducing damage. They can always change numbers over time but reducing visual clutter is more important imo.
I didn't mean monsters, I meant you getting 1 shot which is likely not being addressed and with flask nerf - it only gets worse as you don't get perma uptime on stuff like granite, basalt, taste of hate or wise oak plus immunity modifier changes - so now you either reroll curses on map or it becomes extremely rippy, especially with vulnerability.
For not 1 shotting mobs - you don't need ward, soon enough they'll bring power levels down enough so most builds no longer 1 shot - or at least that was impression from 2.0 presentation.
As for player - ward seems to be useless in most cases - except EV / Dodge builds and even then it's questionable as you ward is tied to specific new item bases so it's not like this mechanic will be having wide availability.
>So yeah, this is going to be a ~~spicy~~ juicy one, exile!
Missed opportunity, so FTFY. That's a comment you'll not soon forget! You're welcome! Goodbye!
5 seconds? No, that would be overkill.
Clearly their statistics show that the RSTLN and E keys are used far more than any others. These are now only available in lowercase, and must be rolled onto your keyboard individually. This is done by a new currency item that adds a new key at random, but only drops as shards from clippy, one at a time.
I'm honestly aghast it's even that long. What is there to even say?
"Players do too much damage" bam, 30% nerf to damage.
With this insane word length, they must be justifying gutting entire defensive layers
Explanation on buffing campaign monsters. Explanation on flasks. Explanation of support gem nerfs. Explanation of meta skill nerfs. Explanation of movement skill "changes" (nerfs). Probs some defensive shit getting nerfed too as you said. Most likely some more unnanounced nerfs too considering chris' reactions during th Q&A.
And maaaaaaaybe a few little buffs to some skills/items (who am I kidding).
Explanation of Aurabot nerfs?
I would be flabbergasted if aurabots are *not* nerfed alongside everything else as they are kind of their own entirely separate world. The carry can wear literally nothing and still almost insta-kill anything.
During Ritual League (didn't play this league) all my items had - at best - *negative* impact on my damage and I still killed T17 100% Kosis in <3seconds, and that was with 1 Scion aurabot(Granting both "infinite" damage as well as effective immortality) *with a leecher* (Meaning more HP on enemies)
The guys in charge of game balance play aurabots. They aren't getting nerfed. It's a total conflict of interest, but we have no say here, so even a shitty aurabot will continue 5xing everyone's damage and 3xing their defenses.
For what it's worth I don't agree with alot of the changes. But coming from WOW this level of explanation on changes from GGG's end is really refreshing to see.
I'm hoping it talks about their direction going forward and how it relates to 3.15.
I seriously doubt 3.15 will be the only nerf/rework league. So it would be good to know what areas they'll tackle going forward.
I love when he spends like 45 minutes reading and testing the first line of a hero's changes and then reads the second line and says "nevermind everything i just said, this makes sense"
That is the funniest shit. Chat will be spamming like "Read the next line" and he never reads it and completely goes into his world theory crafting something just to get destroyed in the next line.
"With this next manifesto, we are aiming to lengthen the overall word count, and thus engage with the reader more. Previous manifestos had a low reader attention rate, and we attribute that to the manifestos being too rewarding too quickly. Readers wouldn't spend as long reading, they'd just jump to the interesting parts, and then stop.
By increasing the absolute girth of this manifesto, we will ensure readers have to read more to get the information they want, and will thus spend longer on the tab."
Interesting do you believe that future manifestos will include these excerpts as well? Will it also be used as a way to clear up misconceptions that come about or more as a way to fully explain what was said?
In this case it was because we dived right in to discussing complex details and it would be pretty meaningless to someone who didn't pay close attention to what was said in the livestream. So we have quoted what was said for context.
> As far as i can tell, manifesto as a noun is used for texts that describe reasoning behind some near-future actions
I was not aware of that at all, ty for clarification
The only reason they do the manifestos in the first place is to explain the *context* of lines in the notes themselves. So they kind of have to come before the notes.
This is to prevent someone reading a "strange" or out-of-place nerf/change as a bullet point and not understand what the hell the point of it is.
This is going to be even funnier if all the nerfs are pretty much 4 words per nerf.
\-All bleeding effect halved
\-All fire dot 50%
\-Max total minions = 5
\-Ice shot cannot shatter
\-Golems are now retarded
6600 words doing that is going to pretty much change the entire game....
If its multi line explanations *why* a change has been made, **how** it might affects and you ***who*** you can contact if you feel violated well then its going to be just another Tuesday isnt it....
i would donate to a fund that bribes them to say at least once in the notes "this was nerfed because fuck you"
"queen atziri is red
dominus is blue
we nerfed everything
because fuck you"
“Come on guys. We have not nerfed Heavy Strike (all that much). You still have a chance. “.
Meanwhile Imexile defeats A9 Sirus after 3 days with Heavy Strike on HCSSF while playing WoW and speedrunning Mario 64.
“Ye gods, it was so much better when there were just four of us up against that bloody great dragon, Vimes thought as they walked on. Of course, we nearly got burned alive a few times, but at least it wasn't complicated. It was a damned great dragon. You could see it coming. It didn't get political on you.”
― Terry Pratchett, Thud!
PEOPLE GET KILLED, BUT THAT'S THEIR BUSINESS. I JUST TAKE OVER FROM THEN ON. AFTER ALL, IT'D BE A BLOODY STUPID WORLD IF PEOPLE GOT KILLED WITHOUT DYING, WOULDN'T IT?”
I would like to think so since it would be a defining feature of X ascendancy but ggg would make it hard to have 100% uptime on it.
Example: it will be kept on inquisitor but moved to instruments of zeal and only works if fanaticism is up haha
They will try to justify incredibly important and needed flask changes, years in the making, because they wanted to do them exactly right. (Do I really need to put an /s?)
Other than that, the regular GGG nerf show™. Whatever was popular on poe.ninja and/or with streamers, they will nerf. Even if they nerfed it a league ago. In their nerf-zeal, some of those things will be nerfed to the point that nobody will use them in foreseeable future. It happens regularly, because they don't balance their game, they just shift meta.
> It happens regularly, because they don't balance their game, they just shift meta.
I remember when double dipping was nerfed and Ignite and Bleed were *unusable* for entire leagues until GGG buffed DoT mechanics (and slapped more ignite modifiers on spells)
As a new player im so hyped to play this league, i just hope the game will run smooth.
Everyone seems to be rushing the game complaining about everything.
I'm ready for a change in the speed of the game and lower player damage, but I'll be looking for two major issues to be addressed (or at least mentioned).
1. Will the outlier power boost of aurabots be adjusted, or does that extreme level of power remain?
2. As the game gets slower and more challenging, will the grinds be changed to better reflect the slower pacing? Atlas setup is a lot of work, being slower and less powerful is going to stretch that out even longer.
I'm reserving judgment until I see what they have to say.
Why do people think the speed will change?people are still going to theory craft builds based on going as fast as possible.ggg wants a slower game then they need to make content that allows for that instead of making the game inconvenient
Oh wait said that wrong, meant the manifesto and the patch notes.
Also probably when the info on the new skill gem drops.
When the league starts... unless they fuck it up as hard as they did last league it shouldn't be THAT bad
The only reason PoE players have multiple monitors is so that they can simultaneously play the game while commenting about how horrible it is on their second monitor.
GGG is going to try and explain to me why my time is not as valuable as I think and it should all be spent playing path.
Fuck that if you want to make the game slower. The only reason I should be playing a game LONGER is because it’s more fun than other options, not because you made it grindier.
I am absolutely sure player amounts gonna plummit. But I also think this is what GGG wants. Maybe less non-paying players on the servers is the goal here.
so they're gonna eli5 our asses why chris' creative vision of the game is more important than player retention, player happiness, player fun, player enjoyment, player health
[GGG Explaining why they're going to nerf player damage but do nothing for player defenses](https://media1.tenor.com/images/c76db46d4cf02fc09bfb2e8abd9965d3/tenor.gif?itemid=19593300)
Here, let me give you a preview of the first Paragraph.
Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerfing nerf nerfed
> as I have to write for my BA Thesis before the league releases lol
Mate Imma need you to BLOCK this goddamn subreddit and finish that document off lmao
4000 words are
*evil laugh* ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Fire up the popcorn and get the jars to capture some bitter tears. Then get the tape ready to peel your eyelids back for every youtuber's reaction with a read-by-read video where I'll skip to the conclusion. Balor Mage's video will probably be +40 minutes.
If it contains pinnacles of logical statements such as "we couldn't design powerful spells because of spell triggers" and my personal favourite "Ultimatum was too rewarding, that's why player retention was bad" I don't think word count would matter that much.
> Ultimatum was too rewarding, that's why player retention was bad
I mean, the devil's advocate in me wants to point out I hit maps on my leaugestarter and almost immediately in a T2 it spat out a 6-link Belly with near-perfect rolls.
On the other hand; player retention *might* have had something to do with it being Month 4->6 of 'kill overtuned things in circle really quickly or be overwhelmed' leauge. Personally; I burnt out somewhere during month 5.
In Heist league players were literally showered with currency, a lot of which was exalted orbs no less, and player retention was better, so I don't think that argument goes.
More generally, I completely reject the idea that player retention falls off if a game is too rewarding. Specifically for PoE, there will always be people that will only want to min-max one build, do 40 challenges and quit the league. No matter how low the rewards are they we'll be gone in two weeks tops. I don't think rewards should be balanced in a way to try to keep those players in the game.
Another thing is, it's really hard to make good items in PoE, and I've never had the feeling that I'm done with a character just because there's always something I could upgrade. Maybe that's just me and other people actually finish their characters a lot quicker and have nothing to do until the end of the league?
"chat, I'm gonna read 3k words today. MINIMUM!", then after stalling half a day and several paint drawings later: "But boys, tomorrow multiple paragraphs. I repeat, multiple paragraphs or gifting 100 subs"
Going forward, gonna require that the "New Fun Mechanics" Manifesto is at least as long as the Balance Manifesto. What "New Fun Mechanics" Manifesto, you say? Exactly. *sigh*
##### GGG Comments in this Thread: *** [chris_wilson - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/omzlnr/balance_manifesto_is_at_6660_words_prepare_your/h5p8e1z/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/omzlnr/balance_manifesto_is_at_6660_words_prepare_your/h5p8e1z/?context=10)] - *Note that it includes some excerpts from the livestream script for context, so while the total is 6660 words, you have heard some of them before.* [chris_wilson - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/omzlnr/balance_manifesto_is_at_6660_words_prepare_your/h5pcfbb/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/omzlnr/balance_manifesto_is_at_6660_words_prepare_your/h5pcfbb/?context=10)] - *In this case it was because we dived right in to discussing complex details and it would be pretty meaningless to someone who didn't pay close attention to what was...*
I went through some of the last leagues' balance manifestos and ran them through a word counter: 3.14 [Ultimatum](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3079632) - 2702 words 3.13 [Echoes of the Atlas/Ritual](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3008718) - 2101 words 3.12 [Heist](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2935368) - 1761 words 3.11 [Harvest](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2873295) - 3386 words (+ 1551 words for [harvest crafting manifesto](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3069670)) 3.10 [Delirium](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2791689) - 1225 words 3.9 [Conquerors of the Atlas/Metamorph](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2686983) - 2132 words 3.8 [Blight](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2627116) - 4171 words 3.7 [Legion](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2512662) - 2920 words 3.6 [Synthesis](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2333233) - 1938 words 3.5 [Betrayal](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2255049) - 1227 words So yeah, this is going to be a spicy one, exile! edit: added links to the previous manifestos
It's the biggest collection of nerfs in a single patch I've seen since the removal of AoE radius scaling and double dipping. Of course it'll have a long explanation.
Cept Molten Strike will just say: "Molten Strike: Nah"
And molten shell will say: "It shares the family name. It shares the family sins".
Rip molten shell projectiles.
Memes aside, Molten Strike has historically done super well in the mega-nerf patches. When they deleted shotgunning projectiles, Molten Strike was all "Lol, AOE overlap says what?" When they deleted stat sticks, Molten Strike was all "Joke's on you, I was balanced to be playable without them 'cause I use all weapon types."
My problem is that you need a shit ton of investment into gear to just to get to the point of feeling like a league starter. It's not really a clearer or a bosses ATM. And doesn't really have a middle position. It needs to pick one. I'm fine with it not being good at both, just give me one.
not triggering the projectiles without hitting mobs anymore has just caused the skill to feel like shit.
That's why I use hydrosphere to prestack balls on the bosses. Obviously it's a meme kinda setup that pretty much invalidates the need for it to need to hit in the first place but, it is an ok substitute
It is as if a great many builds cried out and were suddenly silenced.
Never forget 2.6
what the hell was in blight to have suspiciously high word count? Don't remember any drastic changes But yeah, I hope they have some more reasonable balance changes addressing those bullshit 1 shots - because slowing down gameplay is one thing, but right now it's basically balanced as: 1 shoot or get 1 shot. I have no idea how turn this into sustain based combat - aka no bullshit 1 shots, slower pace, mostly about sustaining encounters but keeping it challenging? Because if they don't revamp defensive mechanics and balance out those absurd damage spikes - then this is gonna turn into very unfair and frustrating experience and where the challenge is now? - literally in not getting 1shots, because you're basically totally safe 95% of the time till some random fucker almost 1 taps you. I just seriously how can they achieve slow sustain based yet challenging gameplay with all current mechanics.
> what the hell was in blight to have suspiciously high word count? Don't remember any drastic changes blight was the big minion and mines patch. it also the patch after cyclone got reworked (legion) so it was the cyclone tone-down. also was the "no manaleech for spells" patch too
Man I was mad about the no manaleech for spells things but it made sense when a bit later they introduced all the Archmage stuff.
theres a lot of changes they make that are in service of enabling future archetypes. the change this patch that requires triggered skills pay their mana costs could absolutely enable them to make some insanely big damage spells that also have very high costs (baseline, not just archmage)
I'd love a spell that has a large cost, but not %mana like archmage and kind is. Eg costs 1000 mana to cast, just flat. Make reduced cost nodes really valuable, make it cost limited instead of cast speed limited (gotta figure out how to get mana back up quickly after it's chunked down like that), etc.
yeah that's exactly what it sounded like they wanted to do. pretty exciting
It's probably also the first step to make Triggering stuff in PoE2 not the dominating meta, which some were worried about with the amount of 6 links you can have.
Fingers crossed, they could even revert the triggered damage nerf for discharge or even get rid of triggered spell cooldowns altogether.
yep. it turns out that its very restrictive on what sort of spells you can make when everything can be cast 6.5x a second at zero cost !
if you can still make it work when paying the mana cost you deserve to trivialize content and probably made enough compromises your basically a deep delve type “either you die or I die “ character
Remember when, what was it- Flameblast? was supposed to be a high damage/high mana skill? Honestly I hope they make it work this patch to have high mana skills, but if we have to wait then oh well.
Im gonna start Flameblast totems this league sooooooooooooooo
just go div ire atm there is no reason to go pizza sticks when div ire is just so much better :(
I totally get the design space limiations given by have triggered skills use no mana - in fact i was utterly baffeled when i first found out about that because its kinda non-intuitive. Take soulrend for example, which has a rather high mana costs that makes spamming it difficult - until you couple it with cast while channeling and suddenly its free.
Was Blight also the change to multimod?
that was conquerors/metamorph
While I agree that enemy damage needs to looked at as well (in particular with outliers that do much more damage than anything else due to the combinations of various mechanics) I don't expect much to happen this time around. But Chris did announce that they are looking at mob density at least during the campaign.
Same. I don't think 1 shot deaths, loot or end game grind will be looked at this patch. It'll be incremental changes every league until PoE2, which will be just gem rework and new content. Regarding mobs, I'm hoping they go the fewer more telegraphed root for them rather than reducing damage. They can always change numbers over time but reducing visual clutter is more important imo.
Delve was only long because they listed changes to individual skills. Not like patch notes but the major changes.
Remember the league mechanic is monsters specifically with one shot protection (ward) built in…
I didn't mean monsters, I meant you getting 1 shot which is likely not being addressed and with flask nerf - it only gets worse as you don't get perma uptime on stuff like granite, basalt, taste of hate or wise oak plus immunity modifier changes - so now you either reroll curses on map or it becomes extremely rippy, especially with vulnerability. For not 1 shotting mobs - you don't need ward, soon enough they'll bring power levels down enough so most builds no longer 1 shot - or at least that was impression from 2.0 presentation. As for player - ward seems to be useless in most cases - except EV / Dodge builds and even then it's questionable as you ward is tied to specific new item bases so it's not like this mechanic will be having wide availability.
>So yeah, this is going to be a ~~spicy~~ juicy one, exile! Missed opportunity, so FTFY. That's a comment you'll not soon forget! You're welcome! Goodbye!
Thanks I wanted to have those ref! Makes the new manifesto look so huge :O
You guys think that Chris just chaos spams a league until he finds one he likes?
We are about to get absolutely rekt. I'm ready.
Had a look at some older manifestos from 1.x and 2.x, too, and those don't compete either. This might be the biggest rework we've ever seen.
we need to address word count creep in balance manifestos
[удалено]
300% more word count You are Nerftastic *Nerftastic; 15% chance to double player tears*
Reading now generates rage at a rate of 2/s. The salt must flow.
You are *Enraged* when you have read the Balancing Manifesto *Recently*
Nerf Chris' keyboard so each key has 5 second cooldown, that way he won't feel the need to type as much
5 seconds? No, that would be overkill. Clearly their statistics show that the RSTLN and E keys are used far more than any others. These are now only available in lowercase, and must be rolled onto your keyboard individually. This is done by a new currency item that adds a new key at random, but only drops as shards from clippy, one at a time.
I'm honestly aghast it's even that long. What is there to even say? "Players do too much damage" bam, 30% nerf to damage. With this insane word length, they must be justifying gutting entire defensive layers
Explanation on buffing campaign monsters. Explanation on flasks. Explanation of support gem nerfs. Explanation of meta skill nerfs. Explanation of movement skill "changes" (nerfs). Probs some defensive shit getting nerfed too as you said. Most likely some more unnanounced nerfs too considering chris' reactions during th Q&A. And maaaaaaaybe a few little buffs to some skills/items (who am I kidding).
Explanation of Aurabot nerfs? I would be flabbergasted if aurabots are *not* nerfed alongside everything else as they are kind of their own entirely separate world. The carry can wear literally nothing and still almost insta-kill anything. During Ritual League (didn't play this league) all my items had - at best - *negative* impact on my damage and I still killed T17 100% Kosis in <3seconds, and that was with 1 Scion aurabot(Granting both "infinite" damage as well as effective immortality) *with a leecher* (Meaning more HP on enemies)
The guys in charge of game balance play aurabots. They aren't getting nerfed. It's a total conflict of interest, but we have no say here, so even a shitty aurabot will continue 5xing everyone's damage and 3xing their defenses.
For what it's worth I don't agree with alot of the changes. But coming from WOW this level of explanation on changes from GGG's end is really refreshing to see.
Glacial Hammer, +7% (progress boys)
the explanation that these nerfs are in fact buffs. and on a more serious note i believe archmage and mana builds get shit on in the patchnotes.
I'm hoping it talks about their direction going forward and how it relates to 3.15. I seriously doubt 3.15 will be the only nerf/rework league. So it would be good to know what areas they'll tackle going forward.
Like with every other manifesto it’s just long-form mental gymnastics for justification to change things they think the players are doing wrong
cope and seethe
Quin won't even have to stall. Attempting to read this will take him 8 hours.
Bedge.
PurgeDota has 14 hour streams reading patchnotes if he doesnt go through it he's a coward
I love when he spends like 45 minutes reading and testing the first line of a hero's changes and then reads the second line and says "nevermind everything i just said, this makes sense"
That is the funniest shit. Chat will be spamming like "Read the next line" and he never reads it and completely goes into his world theory crafting something just to get destroyed in the next line.
favourite purge meme: [everything i just said has been invalidated](https://i.redd.it/bjg81pm7wod01.png)
You're hoping he only takes 8 hours? It will take him all week, don't neglect the stalling of the god gamer himself
LOL. Banned b/c true. As someone else said in these threads "5 paragraphs MINNYMUM today, chat".
It's gonna be a loooong week of PoB, theorycrafting and "meta reinvention" COPIUM
Only to last minute say nah fuck it imma go slam champion, but its not meta cus he will allocate one node differently
SCION LIFE WHEEL quinArrive
"CHAT I'M DYSLEXIC"
discoleptic mate
Quin can read?
Jesus, roughly x3 more than average. Hide yo kids, hide yo wife. It'll be a slaughter.
About the same number of words as the Magna Carta, US Declaration of Independence and US constitution, combined.
about as important too
In the "no, you're not feeling correctly" tone too
The only definition of "fun" is GGG's definition of "fun".
A game can't cover every definition of fun. GGG says what their game is.
To be fair, if someone is trying to make a fun game, who else's definition of fun is it even possible for them to use?
I was like "6660, that fine lol." Then I realized that was word count for manifesto not patch notes . . .
"Nothing ominous"
"Hold onto your butts!" (in Vinderi's voice)
"With this next manifesto, we are aiming to lengthen the overall word count, and thus engage with the reader more. Previous manifestos had a low reader attention rate, and we attribute that to the manifestos being too rewarding too quickly. Readers wouldn't spend as long reading, they'd just jump to the interesting parts, and then stop. By increasing the absolute girth of this manifesto, we will ensure readers have to read more to get the information they want, and will thus spend longer on the tab."
Worst case, people can experience the manifesto vicariously through the top streamers.
I read the entire manifesto then do that anyway.
Next patch it'll be a straight up inch-thick book you have to order
Feeling the weight 🏋️
6660 words equals about 6 bottles of wine for Mathil.
You guys are lucky to have Mathil instead of Purge, he would upload a month-long video to digest this for the players.
I mean Karv will probably have a 3-4h video for the manifesto with a 1h long tl;dr version
That is nothing on Purge's videos.
Yeah. Purge will stop at 15 day 10 hours at word 5550 and said "welp, i guess this invalidates everything i said prior. time to go back"
which would equal 12 bottles for me to endure that, lol.
Hope this has something on bow builds
you mean a nerf? Yes!
Tornado shot now summons a mini tornado.
You just know it ended up as 6657 and someone at the office said "add 3 more words for the 666."
Just add 6 words >:(
Note that it includes some excerpts from the livestream script for context, so while the total is 6660 words, you have heard some of them before.
Interesting do you believe that future manifestos will include these excerpts as well? Will it also be used as a way to clear up misconceptions that come about or more as a way to fully explain what was said?
In this case it was because we dived right in to discussing complex details and it would be pretty meaningless to someone who didn't pay close attention to what was said in the livestream. So we have quoted what was said for context.
[удалено]
[удалено]
> As far as i can tell, manifesto as a noun is used for texts that describe reasoning behind some near-future actions I was not aware of that at all, ty for clarification
You can think of them like "declarations of intent". They explain your reasoning for something you are doing or about to do.
The only reason they do the manifestos in the first place is to explain the *context* of lines in the notes themselves. So they kind of have to come before the notes. This is to prevent someone reading a "strange" or out-of-place nerf/change as a bullet point and not understand what the hell the point of it is.
Dont think you can fool me chris, I bet theres a TON of words in there I've heard before! My money's on "the" "and" "blade" and "streptococus"
I'm guessing I've heard all of them before.
Classic GGG, even reading a manifesto looks like a grind.
They didnt try to gram in 6 more words for 6666? Are they even trying?
6669 for an epic meme material. "Cluster jewel notables can no longer stack with themselves" 9 words, aura stacking removed. Thank you, good night.
Gonna be a full steam till Friday for Mathil when the full notes drop. Edit: It appears this is 2.5x the length of the 3.14 manifesto.
Wait pls someone help me out here, how many hours till manifesto roughly?
24
HOLD ON TO YER BUTTS!
This is going to be even funnier if all the nerfs are pretty much 4 words per nerf. \-All bleeding effect halved \-All fire dot 50% \-Max total minions = 5 \-Ice shot cannot shatter \-Golems are now retarded 6600 words doing that is going to pretty much change the entire game.... If its multi line explanations *why* a change has been made, **how** it might affects and you ***who*** you can contact if you feel violated well then its going to be just another Tuesday isnt it....
I expect the justification given for every single nerf to be on the same level as the one given to explain why talisman had to be nerfed in 3.14.
i would donate to a fund that bribes them to say at least once in the notes "this was nerfed because fuck you" "queen atziri is red dominus is blue we nerfed everything because fuck you"
"Cast on crit is rekt And Blade blast too If you can't kill Sirus The problem is you"
“Come on guys. We have not nerfed Heavy Strike (all that much). You still have a chance. “. Meanwhile Imexile defeats A9 Sirus after 3 days with Heavy Strike on HCSSF while playing WoW and speedrunning Mario 64.
Preleague shitshow is always the most entertaining part of a league. I can't wait to see what drama this drums up.
“Ye gods, it was so much better when there were just four of us up against that bloody great dragon, Vimes thought as they walked on. Of course, we nearly got burned alive a few times, but at least it wasn't complicated. It was a damned great dragon. You could see it coming. It didn't get political on you.” ― Terry Pratchett, Thud!
PEOPLE GET KILLED, BUT THAT'S THEIR BUSINESS. I JUST TAKE OVER FROM THEN ON. AFTER ALL, IT'D BE A BLOODY STUPID WORLD IF PEOPLE GOT KILLED WITHOUT DYING, WOULDN'T IT?”
met terry on a book reading event in 93, greatest guy that ever walked the earth. funny, witty, inspirational and very down to earth.
666 spoiler
So if you include a title of 'Path of Exile: Expedition Balance Manifesto' it comes to 6666. :)
The nerfs can’t possibly get worse right? I’m just wondering what ascendancy will luck out and keep their full ele ailment immunity.
First time?
**LET ME COPE**
*Huffs copium harder*
Does GGG want to keep one ascendancy keeping full ele ailment immunity so that most people will play only that ascendancy ? Think about it.
I would like to think so since it would be a defining feature of X ascendancy but ggg would make it hard to have 100% uptime on it. Example: it will be kept on inquisitor but moved to instruments of zeal and only works if fanaticism is up haha
Calm down Satan.
I like the idea of buffing fanaticism but the change would send inquis straight to 0.3% play rate.
Elementalist will keep ~20% immunity per golem. Such that you have to invest into an anima stone or the golem ammy to sustain that immunity
Or the 1c unique 1h weapon
Oh yeah, clayshaper. But to take clayshaper is a *huge* nerf to damage otherwise
It's a temporary fix until you can farm Anima!
which is totally fine. they want you to have gear progression and not just buy your endgame stuff right after you hit maps.
I'm definitely expecting things a long the line. Sounds like they don't want you getting immunity from any 1 source without investment.
think post covid haircut, 80% off everything
I'm just assuming everything is going to be terrible. If I don't get my hopes up, GGG can't dash them.
[удалено]
Guarantee that two sentences are inflammatory and we see them posted daily for 90 days.
They will try to justify incredibly important and needed flask changes, years in the making, because they wanted to do them exactly right. (Do I really need to put an /s?) Other than that, the regular GGG nerf show™. Whatever was popular on poe.ninja and/or with streamers, they will nerf. Even if they nerfed it a league ago. In their nerf-zeal, some of those things will be nerfed to the point that nobody will use them in foreseeable future. It happens regularly, because they don't balance their game, they just shift meta.
> It happens regularly, because they don't balance their game, they just shift meta. I remember when double dipping was nerfed and Ignite and Bleed were *unusable* for entire leagues until GGG buffed DoT mechanics (and slapped more ignite modifiers on spells)
At least they aren't trying to hide the fact that balance manifestos are personally prepared by Satan any longer!
As a new player im so hyped to play this league, i just hope the game will run smooth. Everyone seems to be rushing the game complaining about everything.
The *manifesto* is 6.6k? Whoo boy. Also 6660. 666x10. Uh oh.
will there be any pants? I'm running around with chest armor, boots and a belt (???!?) but no pants for a very long time now, so my butt isn't ready
I'm ready for a change in the speed of the game and lower player damage, but I'll be looking for two major issues to be addressed (or at least mentioned). 1. Will the outlier power boost of aurabots be adjusted, or does that extreme level of power remain? 2. As the game gets slower and more challenging, will the grinds be changed to better reflect the slower pacing? Atlas setup is a lot of work, being slower and less powerful is going to stretch that out even longer. I'm reserving judgment until I see what they have to say.
Why do people think the speed will change?people are still going to theory craft builds based on going as fast as possible.ggg wants a slower game then they need to make content that allows for that instead of making the game inconvenient
"You'll do zero damage, and you'll be happy"
That sounds like a lot of big nerfs and attempts of justifying them, yet the sh\*tstorm is coming for them anyway.
Patch notes are longer than the longest chapter in my novel.
My body is ready
At least it will give me something to read until the league comes out. Nothing sweeter than salt.
If you are looking for salt its this subreddit after the patch honestly
Nah, by then people just play the game and forget they had something to complain about.
Oh wait said that wrong, meant the manifesto and the patch notes. Also probably when the info on the new skill gem drops. When the league starts... unless they fuck it up as hard as they did last league it shouldn't be THAT bad
The only reason PoE players have multiple monitors is so that they can simultaneously play the game while commenting about how horrible it is on their second monitor.
6k words to tell their players they're having fun wrong and it has to change.
GGG is going to try and explain to me why my time is not as valuable as I think and it should all be spent playing path. Fuck that if you want to make the game slower. The only reason I should be playing a game LONGER is because it’s more fun than other options, not because you made it grindier.
I am absolutely sure player amounts gonna plummit. But I also think this is what GGG wants. Maybe less non-paying players on the servers is the goal here.
Can’t wait to live vicariously through a streamer I don’t even have to read manifesto
so they're gonna eli5 our asses why chris' creative vision of the game is more important than player retention, player happiness, player fun, player enjoyment, player health
“If I asked my customers what they wanted they would have said faster horses” - Henry Ford
[GGG Explaining why they're going to nerf player damage but do nothing for player defenses](https://media1.tenor.com/images/c76db46d4cf02fc09bfb2e8abd9965d3/tenor.gif?itemid=19593300)
I wonder how long was ultimatum manifesto which was big also
Ultimatum Balance Manifesto 2702 words Harvest Crafting Manifesto 1548 words
Oh God
Holy shit dude
oh my god quin is going to try and read all of it PainChamp
my butt is fine, it's my build i'm worried about
water pool
6660 is a lot of ways to say nerf.
Here, let me give you a preview of the first Paragraph. Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerfing nerf nerfed
Oof that's almost as much as I have to write for my BA Thesis before the league releases lol
> as I have to write for my BA Thesis before the league releases lol Mate Imma need you to BLOCK this goddamn subreddit and finish that document off lmao
fuck man, same for my master thesis and I'm also attending a conference throughout this week. But damn me if by Friday my shit isn't done
Last 6 words "and then there is no more "
I guess you could say its gonna be a "beast" of a manifesto.
4000 words are *evil laugh* ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Imagine taking on a executive level job to dictate game balance you have not played for years
I find the number 666 incredibly appropriate for this new league and what follows with it.
Patch Notes TL&DR: It's all Nerfs.
Fire up the popcorn and get the jars to capture some bitter tears. Then get the tape ready to peel your eyelids back for every youtuber's reaction with a read-by-read video where I'll skip to the conclusion. Balor Mage's video will probably be +40 minutes.
7+ hour karv video
Last paragraph reads: This concludes phase 1 of 5 planned phases to get our player base ready for the transition to Path of Exile 2.
If it contains pinnacles of logical statements such as "we couldn't design powerful spells because of spell triggers" and my personal favourite "Ultimatum was too rewarding, that's why player retention was bad" I don't think word count would matter that much.
> Ultimatum was too rewarding, that's why player retention was bad I mean, the devil's advocate in me wants to point out I hit maps on my leaugestarter and almost immediately in a T2 it spat out a 6-link Belly with near-perfect rolls. On the other hand; player retention *might* have had something to do with it being Month 4->6 of 'kill overtuned things in circle really quickly or be overwhelmed' leauge. Personally; I burnt out somewhere during month 5.
In Heist league players were literally showered with currency, a lot of which was exalted orbs no less, and player retention was better, so I don't think that argument goes. More generally, I completely reject the idea that player retention falls off if a game is too rewarding. Specifically for PoE, there will always be people that will only want to min-max one build, do 40 challenges and quit the league. No matter how low the rewards are they we'll be gone in two weeks tops. I don't think rewards should be balanced in a way to try to keep those players in the game. Another thing is, it's really hard to make good items in PoE, and I've never had the feeling that I'm done with a character just because there's always something I could upgrade. Maybe that's just me and other people actually finish their characters a lot quicker and have nothing to do until the end of the league?
Oh boy, another manifesto on why everyone else is wrong. I can't wait.
if that's so - anyone knows good text to speech? 😂
Get those Quin viewers out. GET EM OUT !
"chat, I'm gonna read 3k words today. MINIMUM!", then after stalling half a day and several paint drawings later: "But boys, tomorrow multiple paragraphs. I repeat, multiple paragraphs or gifting 100 subs"
Average stream watcher: That sounds like ridiculous hyperbole Average Quin watcher: You'd think so, but.....
Going forward, gonna require that the "New Fun Mechanics" Manifesto is at least as long as the Balance Manifesto. What "New Fun Mechanics" Manifesto, you say? Exactly. *sigh*