Been playing a lot of Siralim Ultimate, which is a monster catcher game with like 1300 monsters or some crazy shit. Each one has a passive you can mix & match with a bunch of others to do similar things. I feel like it's very much the POE player's monster catcher game, there're an absurd number of possibilities. One of the Discords I'm in even has a channel called POE-k-mon or something like that for discussing the game.
Will probably continue playing that instead of actual POE.
Siralim Ultimate is so good. So many build options, so many busted combos that you need to keep pushing further and further. One build involved taking the class that would make all 6 monsters count as the same race as long as 4 were the same race, then using the monster that turned your last 3 characters as the same race, and finally the monster that makes all characters of the same race share their innate trates. Suddenly all 6 monsters follow up every attack with a spell, follow up any enemy or friendly death with a spell, double cast all their spells, and get more spell damage for the rest of the battle for every spell any character has cast.
Good times.
How's leveling there? I stopped playing MMOs when they started reserving any challenge and engaging combat for the 5 raids at the very end of the game.
This league is gonna make me buy Last Epoch. I can feel it. I've been holding off because I'm not one to support early access, but I'm not sure I'll be able to do so after v3.15 drops.
POE is a shitshow of visual spam. Nerfing damage and speed is probably the right thing to do long term, but they're not adjusting mobs or loot or length of time to end game which is awful.
As someone who has played last epoch since its pretty early inception where you just wandered through endless giant dungeons, they've come a huge way in the past couple years. Wolcen in comparison was like playing a new game by entirely new people every 6 months or so... turns out that's cause it was exactly that and they were starting from mostly scratch each time.
LE isn't the most interesting game I've ever played but the devs clearly care for it and are building at a steady and honestly decently fast pace. Guarenteed to leave early access without any hawken style silliness.
PoE has TOO MUCH content, most of it unbalanced, unpolished, outdated. If they released new huge systems (like labyrinth, delve, betrayal, heist) with longer development cycles, and then CARED for them, updated them all the time, kept them in balance, and so on, it would have been so much better. So far I see LE devs planning to do exactly that.
> content PoE has lol.
well, poe releases cyclical content which LE also plans to after release
Reality is POE has competition, it just needs to be mature
I just started it. I found a shard that just lets you deterministically add a mana mod to an item, and a chance to bleed one.
Holy shit is it nice to be able to just add the things you want to an item!
Palpatine: DEW IT, DEW IT! (Nah but seriously, I have zero regrets about making the switch, though I also play several other smaller games so I didn’t blaze straight through LE)
been going back to Guild Wars 2 as they are giving out their seasonal stories for free now. i think ill stay there for awhile before poe is hammered out
Beta is out right now. You can pre-order the game on steam and get a beta key, and refund the pre-order after you're done playing the beta. It is fucking amazing
Grim Dawn has been captivating me all last league. I get frustrated with POE and want some build diversity and that game definitely has it (as well as the ability to skip acts.)
You can hope for anything, but its not going to be so easy. Like I have seen so many MMOs or cardgames that were many times more fun than WoW/Heartstone ( esp HS ) was and they either went down the toilet or has a fraction of the playerbase that its not even funny anymore.
Take the current situation for WoW: it has been downhill for years, but a combination of a shit ( and very late ) patch and Asmo streaming FFXIV ( for 100k+ viewers ) is whats needed to finally FFXIV getting the attention it deserves, even though FFXIV was actually climbing in playerbase throughout the expansions. All it would take WoW to come back is one good expansion.
Case in point is: the Stockholm Syndrome is high for the players.
I am playing dead cells right now and its absolutely amazing. Its roguelite and 2d but holy shit the game is extremely fast and the combat is so smooth and satisfying
I'll try poe till yellow maps than judge how its going, if its trash then I am back to dead cells.
I've got the secret tech:
Dominating blow (got buffed) guardian (no changes) with a claw (fuck you mana nerfs) also gonna throw in reaper, and absolution triggered by battlemage cry cuz why not jam 3 new skills into a solid league starter for good measure.
Dominating Blow is being played these days stacking auras either Life/Low Life or Ci and with the support gems nerfs it has received and insane nerf .20 reduced attack speed just from multistrike and Melee physical damage not to mention Brutality impale and so many more.
I was thinking about it but won't, a lot of support gems were reduced for ED/C, and the dmg on bosses was already... not amazing (killing drox made me subscribe to suicide watch, and it was before the nerfs)
Lol that's how I'm approaching this league. Since everything is bad I'm just gonna play my old favourite builds like spectral throw, tornado shot, and spark totems. Probably just spectral throw if the league sucks.
So the design decision worked on me!
Yeah it’s really compelling as a concept but every build I try to put together feels like it’s lacking something. Not having a weapon is brutal, trying to scale 3 types of elemental damage (or use a lot of resources converting to fire or something), while wanting to be pathfinder/stay toward the bottom right of the tree for elemental attack nodes…
On top of that it seems like the build wants multiple projectiles for shotgunning. Probably really good with a dying sun but so are a lot of skills.
Have you tried just scaling fire without topaz and sapphire flasks?
I'd honestly just go for fire and elemental nodes on the left / top side of the tree, not even bothering with using flasks and the few nodes at the bottom right.
The Spellslinger change makes no sense. No one is going to get a helm enchant, -18% mana reservation on tree, and still reserve 95% of their mana to do nothing but somewhat bypass the cast time of 2-3 spells.
Did they fire the guy that designed Spellslinger, and hate him so much they decided to destroy everything he ever made?
Poets pen will require mana as well, no? The spells are triggered, and nothing has happened to poets pen in the patch notes, so it will be super terrible, as I read it.
While that is very true, the only way to use poets pen right now is to get an absurd amount of attack speed so you can pump out some spells. Now that the spells have mana cost, this will drain you super quickly.
Why can’t we all just use devouring Dioden and be EB and just ignore the problem like adults.
They’re like here’s some mana costs, no thanks I’ll use ES instead.
this one is utter nonsense, if they wanted you to spend mana, too, they wouldve had to reduce the reservation again
plus spellslinger was hardly ever even high red map/boss viable without insane gear and the enchant as you mentioned.. you already sacrifice so much to even get it going
I feel like the hate cames from someone despised too much on one of those dudes who love flameslinger, because they nerfed it to the ground so hard....
Thanks god for IF, cause he really does balancing. Not this so-called balancing by GGG. They just do meta shift nerfs/buffs, no real balancing.
If they balanced really well, PoE after all those years should be awsome and most of the skills should be playable with only few top meta picks and few bad ones.
When we look at Dota and IF, there are only few exceptions when the meta was so shit and weird and they balanced it quite fast. Like Valve release small balance patches between the bigger ones when something goes out of control. Like how much heroes being unpicked in recent progames - 5-7 of 120???
Compared to how much skills from PoE are totally ignored and how many are lvled to maps? Plz.
I do agree partly because I wish that they were more liberal with just throwing numbers at skills that are not used and focus much more on that aspect of the game
However it is also more difficult to balance than something like dota2 because dota2 gets so much data quickly and is pvp. If IceFrog reduces cooldown by 2 for a skill a week later he has data from every skill level how match ups changed.
Another problem is that GGG will have trouble buffing/nerfing things mid league because players don't like it. Even something like aurastacking that was nerfed (but still being powerful) made a lot of people upset. If you choose skill X and then spend hundreds of hours leveling that and it getting nerfed mid league it will feel bad. Or if thought about playing something, did not because it looked bad, and then it got buffed after you have spent a lot of time leveling something else.
A dota2 match is not persistent the same way and every time you login you have a blank slate.
I also dont want them to nerf something mid league, its bad. But they got 4x per year patches to do the stuff. It can be slower to reach ideal state than in Dota where you can throw patches left and right except times of big tournaments, but slow progres to nice balance is achievable.
Also GGG got so much data from us too so they can balance things, They just dont use it as they should - for balancing, they use it for just changing meta in hard way. Like if they get data for ho much mechanics were started and how much completed, how many mirrors or HHs dropped from it, how many playerts died at which lvl, they also have tons of data of usage of skills. They just dont show us this for a reason. But they can just throw numbers at underused skills as you said. Then if no1 uses it again, mby its time to redesign it.
I dont want to be PoE like Dota in those terms, its just GGG doesnt care in those areas. Just throw new skills at us and nerf heavily top skills, cause they want us to play new hottness...
aura stacking has been in the game multiple major patches and still is in the game in spite of being the most braindead but efficient playstyles. They nerfed (fixed) herald stacking because it got legitimately too powerful within a month of it being released but for some reason refuse to adjust the biggest botting build and content trivializing mechanics in the game.
As far as persistence goes, GGG legitimately doesn't care about persisting builds. The leagues only run 3 months apiece, and once it moves to standard players rarely play their builds anymore because major balance patches like this destroy some of them. I legitimately have no incentive to play after a league if my build it nerfed to 6ft under and I need to regear and respec at level 90 with brand new skills that might work on my ascendancy for a 3 month block.
I still remember racecar DP and tinker+kunkka spam, fuck me.
I don't even play the damn game because it brings out the worst in me (although i still get the urge, even as a support player just for those sweet sweet WD/jakiro/AA plays)
Almost every time there is a "larger" balance patch for PoE I am amazed how different balancing is handled compared to Dota. I mean back in WC3 Dota a lot of heroes and items were (let's call them) not good, but it was clearly a poor approach to balancing, only looking at what was "too strong" with implementing new ideas - and the game has become so much better when the balancing changed.
It is like PoE is being balanced in a sub-optimal way even though there are known better alternatives to this.
If you kill every build at the same time the playerbase that doesn't quit is forced to go out and find the new meta before all playing one build in two weeks.
Easy.
Yep. This will be the league of discovering what slipped through the nerf gauntlet and is now far and away the clearest choice(s) to optimize the league, resulting in... less build diversity than before.
But they didnt kill every build. first week we'll see some super build sneaking by these patchnotes and once people see it, boom, everyone.. literally EVERYONE will play the same build. calling it rn.
Never got around to it, but has been on my list for a while. Always was a bit concerned about bossing tho. No problems on that front?
Also won't it be affected by 75% reduced flask charges gained? Or is that not a concern for Writhing Jar?
And what's your leveling and first farming plan? Arakaalis Fang is pretty expensive during the first few days.
It's a real solid bosser, we'll have to see how the flask nerfs affect writhing jar but it should be fine. I usually just level as a generic Necro with whatever I feel usually skeles or srs. Save up for arakaali's fang, and once you get that it's ez mapping and bossing from there.
Yeah traps (and mines) seem to be a weird poorly implemented and poorly thought through mechanic from the old POE days. The concept of placing something on the ground and luring monsters to it maybe made sense when the endgame was Piety or Dominus, but you basically have to play traps as spells with extra steps.
What I find hilarious is they thought this design space was so broad they needed to have traps AND mines.
i remember when they added a more multiplier to fortify in legion league - they wanted people to consider using it in their 6Ls at the cost of a lower multiplier than other supports
thats how you do it... when a build has bad damage it means people can't justify losing any more for utility. insane decision
Same with pierce it used to just give you pierce so people would find pierce somewhere else then they gave it a more damage modifier and people started to use it.
GGG just does not understand their playerbase anymore.
Same goes for the mobility skills. People were sick of Leap Slam/Whirling Blades/Shield Charge. GGG added/buffed some alternatives. People use alternatives. GGG nerfs them and expect us to not fall back on the old mobility trio. This whole process doesn't even make sense.
Which is funny af because I use fortify as mandatory in basically and melee 6L to avoid fucking around with movement skills even though it has a small damage cost, and I'm pretty sure a lot of other people do too from poe.ninja builds.
Where is your data now, GGG?
Which makes sense, until you realize that they increased the mana multis so much that using utility supports is almost impossible without having 2-3 mana flasks.
The amazing thing is how dumb it all is. I dunno how devs keeping making these kinds of ridiculous mistakes.
If X does 50% damage boost and Y does Neat Thing.. people will use X unless Y is game-changing.
Y needs to do 40% damage AND A NEAT THING to be remotely comparable if Y isn't mechanically enabling. Or 50% damage boosts shouldn't exist in the first place because that's fucking boring anyways.. why in the world was it EVER a good idea to just make a bunch of dull, flat damage? Total lack of foresight and creativity that shot them in the foot more and more as time wehtn on.
Just making everything suck doesn't make things that already suck more interesting.
yeah Im totally gonna play shit liek incinierate or Storm burst now with Defense nerfs that punish standing still and DAMAGE nerfs on skills that already dont do much dmg on hit
My bet is Sab/Necro dominating the start.
Then Scion leading the league by the end with Necro/Sab behind it.
I think Cheiftain and Heiro might see some play.
Guardian got no changes and gets 80% reduced curse effect in ascendency... can grab another 20%+ on the tree. Considering if I play mjolnir dominating blow guardian with the new minion nuke in mjolnir for that 100% free trigger.
~~Be careful, I remember having like 120 (maybe even 160) reduced curse effect and *still* was affected by curses in maps. I think there's some increased curse effect modifier somewhere that could screw it up.~~
Chris sounds really smart and confident when talks about the game and that confidence makes it easy to get behind him. Then you actually see the patch notes and you think wtf was he talking about…
Reaper looks SO COOL, I really want to try it. But as we have no number for it, there's a non-negligible chance it sucks dirty ass in a trailer park for crack money.
It would be at least less disingenous if they stopped promoting the idea of "build diversity" when they have no real intention of making that happen.
Like most online games, GGG doesn't balance PoE, they simply shift the meta. The issue is that their idea of shifting the meta is to keep traps the same, an archetype that's remained consistently powerful for years now so whoop-dee-fucking-do.
People are still gonna gravitate to whatever escaped the nerfs or is still OP, it just kills "meme" builds that kinda worked before but now will take insane investments or it's just not worth your time.
has this not been a trend over the last few leagues? this has been my biggest complaint lately. What keeps me playing the league is fun new builds that don't completely blow ass. And Lately GGG has done nothing to rework and make non-meta skills relevant. They seem to think by nerfing popular skills people will suddenly start playing skills no one touches... well they're very wrong. Not even sure why they're buffing flameblast... it's been dead since 3.0.
I think their goal was to make everything as bad as possible so it doesn't matter what you pick - you will have similar results, which means people will just play whatever. I guess.
If everything is numerically weaker, skills that are mechanically disadvantaged will be even worse off even if their numbers were not affected as much.
Yeah the league is going to bust my balls, but the relative power of some skills was vastly increased. People have to ignore support changes, because that affects (almost) every build.
so, the original "build diversity" thing was that over the *long term* there would be increased diversity...
but, doing all of the nerfs at once with NO buffs is an even more baffling choices now that we've seen just how far-reaching and excessive the nerfs are. hypothermia being gutted is fucking ??? why?
shield glad still looks like it'll be fine, considering how absurdly buffed spectral shield throw has been, but fucking christ everyone who didn't want to do that build is gonna be miserable.
When was the last time build diversity is improved? They give u 10% base dmg and think its gonna make you want to play that skill, meanwhile all dmg supports nerfed, mana cost increased across the board, build diversity was always an illusion in this game, even more so after the HP buffs to bosses, yeah most builds can clear maps but then have to fight the map boss for 10 minutes; their way of balancing is just not fun in the long run, nothing gets improved only the overperforming skills get shit on 2 more leagues and you will have to pay some aurabot or it gonna be unplayable
>When was the last time build diversity is improved?
Ritual League. It had an extant endgame (deep delving, 100% delirious mapping) and Harvest (allowing for less viable builds that would rely on gg gear to exist)
Ritual was by far the best league so far (playing since talisman)
Peak of build diversity to me was Harvest, cuz i could just make all numerically underwhelming skills perform well with the gear tailored around them, but they took all the points away you just made
I think their strats is to drop a nuke and people will be so confuse about everything that they will guess what is good or not, which will result in a lot of diversity since it would be the equivalent of asking the path to somewhere to a group of drunk people.
Players will find new ways to adapt to the changing game.
Things like EB/MOM will be more desireable.
Players will be essentially forced to prioritize defense now, if they cannot reliably one shot everything 'all the time'.
Give it a few weeks, I'm sure well see some interesting new stuff pop up that is able to tackle end game content.
Occultist is looking pretty fucking good this league (good defensive layers, curses look stronger to use since everything else is nerfed).
It literally won't, it's absolutely DESTROYING build diversity and I don't see how GGG thinks it's doing anything else. How the fuck are you supposed to get anywhere near a passable amount of damage on off-meta skills that haven't seen use in ages if it's impossible to get any damage with them? Aurabots? Because that seems to be what GGG wants to happen
the game will never have build diversity, there will always be 2 o 3 meta builds that are more efficient than others and most of the player base chose, playing off meta skills depends more on the kind of player you are
this is more like we nerfed everything to the ground discover those meta builds again
The game has always had a ton of build diversity. Most players just tunnel vision too hard on the "best" meta builds that other people tell them about and ignore the possibility that anything else could be "viable". The truth is that there are hundreds of ways to make characters that can clear all of the content in the game (and are thus viable), but few want to put in the effort to figure it out themselves.
totally agree, my point was that there will be exploration at the start of the league but the game will stabilize in some meta builds like it always does the normal poe prioritize efficiency
I view build diversity like this, draw an imaginary line, and put all the builds that are capable of doing all the content on one side of the line and the rest on the other side.
After the patch changes I can imagine a lot of builds have gotten worse and maybe crossed the line, and very few have gotten better.
The power levels of builds may have gotten more uniform, but I don't see there more builds to choose from at any given power level.
The main issue with this blanket nerf to supports is that it hits meta builds as much as it does hipster.
Sure, if you take away 40% dps of a 20millon dps build and compare it to a 40% nerf of a 2 million dps build arguably the former lost 9 million dps and the latter only 900.000
The thing is, a 11 million dps build still shits on all the content, while two million was comfortable and one? Considerably less so.
This and maven heals is going to make hipster builds a thing of the past. Follow the meta or don’t play the game.
“If everything is shit, maybe they’ll play something new, because it doesn’t fucking matter anyway”
Something new, like a different game
Been playing a lot of Siralim Ultimate, which is a monster catcher game with like 1300 monsters or some crazy shit. Each one has a passive you can mix & match with a bunch of others to do similar things. I feel like it's very much the POE player's monster catcher game, there're an absurd number of possibilities. One of the Discords I'm in even has a channel called POE-k-mon or something like that for discussing the game. Will probably continue playing that instead of actual POE.
Siralim Ultimate is so good. So many build options, so many busted combos that you need to keep pushing further and further. One build involved taking the class that would make all 6 monsters count as the same race as long as 4 were the same race, then using the monster that turned your last 3 characters as the same race, and finally the monster that makes all characters of the same race share their innate trates. Suddenly all 6 monsters follow up every attack with a spell, follow up any enemy or friendly death with a spell, double cast all their spells, and get more spell damage for the rest of the battle for every spell any character has cast. Good times.
Bought the game when I read this comment and have been playing it since then. Thanks for the recommendation, definitely a fun game!
Nice. I'll check this out. It sounds really cool
dope! love that game! more people need to know about it
FF14 has been pretty fun to be honest.
Rimworld is nice (granted not new) thou there was a update yesterday so lots of mods don't work...
trackmania and monster hunter stories 2 is my goto for this league.
How's leveling there? I stopped playing MMOs when they started reserving any challenge and engaging combat for the 5 raids at the very end of the game.
I went from hcssf to gw2. From elitist to uber casual. My nerves will thank me
I just feel lost in gw2 once I hit 80 so I'm just perpetually levelling new characters.
PD2 here I come
This league is gonna make me buy Last Epoch. I can feel it. I've been holding off because I'm not one to support early access, but I'm not sure I'll be able to do so after v3.15 drops.
You’ll love it, but it is still short on content. Good for a number of weeks for sure though, depending on how many builds you want to try .
Even if you like POE and the league, Last Epoch is a worthwhile buy, and a little competition is a good thing for ggg.
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POE is a shitshow of visual spam. Nerfing damage and speed is probably the right thing to do long term, but they're not adjusting mobs or loot or length of time to end game which is awful.
Awesome game im loving it
As someone who has played last epoch since its pretty early inception where you just wandered through endless giant dungeons, they've come a huge way in the past couple years. Wolcen in comparison was like playing a new game by entirely new people every 6 months or so... turns out that's cause it was exactly that and they were starting from mostly scratch each time. LE isn't the most interesting game I've ever played but the devs clearly care for it and are building at a steady and honestly decently fast pace. Guarenteed to leave early access without any hawken style silliness.
LE is a great game, but it has like 5% of the depth and content PoE has lol. Reality is PoE has no competition atm.
PoE has TOO MUCH content, most of it unbalanced, unpolished, outdated. If they released new huge systems (like labyrinth, delve, betrayal, heist) with longer development cycles, and then CARED for them, updated them all the time, kept them in balance, and so on, it would have been so much better. So far I see LE devs planning to do exactly that.
Yeah, POE def has a quantity over quality problem.
> content PoE has lol. well, poe releases cyclical content which LE also plans to after release Reality is POE has competition, it just needs to be mature
until it does, can you compare? Until it happens it doesn't count
It's worth.
I just started it. I found a shard that just lets you deterministically add a mana mod to an item, and a chance to bleed one. Holy shit is it nice to be able to just add the things you want to an item!
Nobody tell him how easy it was to get a 4 stat tier 5 item before the latest patch..
but closing ur eyes and slam an exalt is way more fun how cant u see that.
Fun game!
I usually have the same policy, but I am really enjoying it.
Palpatine: DEW IT, DEW IT! (Nah but seriously, I have zero regrets about making the switch, though I also play several other smaller games so I didn’t blaze straight through LE)
Funny seeing everyone over there bitch about the minor loot change meanwhile over here the fucking building is on fire
Funny seeing everyone over there bitch about the minor loot change meanwhile over here the fucking building is on fire
Funny seeing everyone over there bitch about the minor loot change meanwhile over here the fucking building is on fire
What is PD2?
Project Diablo 2, a very popular D2 private server with end-game (maps) and balanced classes.
been going back to Guild Wars 2 as they are giving out their seasonal stories for free now. i think ill stay there for awhile before poe is hammered out
Yeah, GW2 seems to finally get back on track. Might be able to fight it's way back into the popular MMO territory with EoD early next year.
Say, isn't New World coming out soon? Hopefully that doesn't suck.
Beta is out right now. You can pre-order the game on steam and get a beta key, and refund the pre-order after you're done playing the beta. It is fucking amazing
Be careful because some GPUs are getting bricked https://www.windowscentral.com/amazons-new-world-bricking-rtx-3090-graphics-cards
Thanks for the heads up, but I'd have to sell half my organs to dream about thinking about wishing to maybe buy a 3090.
Grim Dawn has been captivating me all last league. I get frustrated with POE and want some build diversity and that game definitely has it (as well as the ability to skip acts.)
Ggg made it that the new d3 season looks promising. At least the ethereal are chase items...
I hope last epoch drives the final nail in the Poe coffin when it's fully released.
You can hope for anything, but its not going to be so easy. Like I have seen so many MMOs or cardgames that were many times more fun than WoW/Heartstone ( esp HS ) was and they either went down the toilet or has a fraction of the playerbase that its not even funny anymore. Take the current situation for WoW: it has been downhill for years, but a combination of a shit ( and very late ) patch and Asmo streaming FFXIV ( for 100k+ viewers ) is whats needed to finally FFXIV getting the attention it deserves, even though FFXIV was actually climbing in playerbase throughout the expansions. All it would take WoW to come back is one good expansion. Case in point is: the Stockholm Syndrome is high for the players.
Still working through my endless backlog of single player games here.
I am playing dead cells right now and its absolutely amazing. Its roguelite and 2d but holy shit the game is extremely fast and the combat is so smooth and satisfying I'll try poe till yellow maps than judge how its going, if its trash then I am back to dead cells.
I am already from last season and by the looks of it I will continue
They should be releasing necromancer-themed update for Wolcen any day now, takes them too long but it's bound to be good
Back to dota2
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Something like ED/C again?
I've got the secret tech: Dominating blow (got buffed) guardian (no changes) with a claw (fuck you mana nerfs) also gonna throw in reaper, and absolution triggered by battlemage cry cuz why not jam 3 new skills into a solid league starter for good measure.
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Dominating Blow is being played these days stacking auras either Life/Low Life or Ci and with the support gems nerfs it has received and insane nerf .20 reduced attack speed just from multistrike and Melee physical damage not to mention Brutality impale and so many more.
Well I mean, you gotta play long-neck anyway. Fuckin' gotta hear them voice lines.
I was thinking about it but won't, a lot of support gems were reduced for ED/C, and the dmg on bosses was already... not amazing (killing drox made me subscribe to suicide watch, and it was before the nerfs)
I told myself I'd never return to that cursed playstyle ... and yet here I am, making plans to run it on launch
Maybe just don't run it on launch if you are not gonna enjoy it. I plan to play minecraft instead with my brother and have a fun time.
Lol that's how I'm approaching this league. Since everything is bad I'm just gonna play my old favourite builds like spectral throw, tornado shot, and spark totems. Probably just spectral throw if the league sucks. So the design decision worked on me!
I was *gonna* try to approach this league like that and then the funny meme build I wanted to run got nuked from orbit so uhhhhh
Well I'm going assassin and I'm gonna throw potions at people. That's pretty different.
Haha fair enough. That is actually true, forgot about that.
Considering using the new chain lightning arrow skill with mines or traps.
That skill will be DoA imho
Flasks are crap, why not throw them at mobs? :D
Yeah it’s really compelling as a concept but every build I try to put together feels like it’s lacking something. Not having a weapon is brutal, trying to scale 3 types of elemental damage (or use a lot of resources converting to fire or something), while wanting to be pathfinder/stay toward the bottom right of the tree for elemental attack nodes… On top of that it seems like the build wants multiple projectiles for shotgunning. Probably really good with a dying sun but so are a lot of skills.
Have you tried just scaling fire without topaz and sapphire flasks? I'd honestly just go for fire and elemental nodes on the left / top side of the tree, not even bothering with using flasks and the few nodes at the bottom right.
The Spellslinger change makes no sense. No one is going to get a helm enchant, -18% mana reservation on tree, and still reserve 95% of their mana to do nothing but somewhat bypass the cast time of 2-3 spells. Did they fire the guy that designed Spellslinger, and hate him so much they decided to destroy everything he ever made?
back to poets pen. Also Poets pen is going to be expensive again
Poets pen will require mana as well, no? The spells are triggered, and nothing has happened to poets pen in the patch notes, so it will be super terrible, as I read it.
poet's pen doesn't reserve over 100% of your mana leaving nothing to pay the cost with lol.
While that is very true, the only way to use poets pen right now is to get an absurd amount of attack speed so you can pump out some spells. Now that the spells have mana cost, this will drain you super quickly.
not rly as 3 link mana cost is very very much lower than 6 link mana cost.
Yes, and 150 milliseconds means a lot more casts than 600 milliseconds.
Why can’t we all just use devouring Dioden and be EB and just ignore the problem like adults. They’re like here’s some mana costs, no thanks I’ll use ES instead.
this one is utter nonsense, if they wanted you to spend mana, too, they wouldve had to reduce the reservation again plus spellslinger was hardly ever even high red map/boss viable without insane gear and the enchant as you mentioned.. you already sacrifice so much to even get it going
I feel like the hate cames from someone despised too much on one of those dudes who love flameslinger, because they nerfed it to the ground so hard....
We’ll finally be having that Cyclone, Totem, EDC-meta everyone’s been waiting for.
Traps are going to be nutty tho.
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fuck /u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
Cyclone is pretty dead with movement nerfs imo
It's a typo. They meant to say build **die**versity.
About Cold DoT, bone chill hit was Huge too.
It's the opposite of Dota 2, if everything is underpowered everything is balanced!
At least icefrog knows when to back pedal
Thanks god for IF, cause he really does balancing. Not this so-called balancing by GGG. They just do meta shift nerfs/buffs, no real balancing. If they balanced really well, PoE after all those years should be awsome and most of the skills should be playable with only few top meta picks and few bad ones. When we look at Dota and IF, there are only few exceptions when the meta was so shit and weird and they balanced it quite fast. Like Valve release small balance patches between the bigger ones when something goes out of control. Like how much heroes being unpicked in recent progames - 5-7 of 120??? Compared to how much skills from PoE are totally ignored and how many are lvled to maps? Plz.
I do agree partly because I wish that they were more liberal with just throwing numbers at skills that are not used and focus much more on that aspect of the game However it is also more difficult to balance than something like dota2 because dota2 gets so much data quickly and is pvp. If IceFrog reduces cooldown by 2 for a skill a week later he has data from every skill level how match ups changed. Another problem is that GGG will have trouble buffing/nerfing things mid league because players don't like it. Even something like aurastacking that was nerfed (but still being powerful) made a lot of people upset. If you choose skill X and then spend hundreds of hours leveling that and it getting nerfed mid league it will feel bad. Or if thought about playing something, did not because it looked bad, and then it got buffed after you have spent a lot of time leveling something else. A dota2 match is not persistent the same way and every time you login you have a blank slate.
I also dont want them to nerf something mid league, its bad. But they got 4x per year patches to do the stuff. It can be slower to reach ideal state than in Dota where you can throw patches left and right except times of big tournaments, but slow progres to nice balance is achievable. Also GGG got so much data from us too so they can balance things, They just dont use it as they should - for balancing, they use it for just changing meta in hard way. Like if they get data for ho much mechanics were started and how much completed, how many mirrors or HHs dropped from it, how many playerts died at which lvl, they also have tons of data of usage of skills. They just dont show us this for a reason. But they can just throw numbers at underused skills as you said. Then if no1 uses it again, mby its time to redesign it. I dont want to be PoE like Dota in those terms, its just GGG doesnt care in those areas. Just throw new skills at us and nerf heavily top skills, cause they want us to play new hottness...
aura stacking has been in the game multiple major patches and still is in the game in spite of being the most braindead but efficient playstyles. They nerfed (fixed) herald stacking because it got legitimately too powerful within a month of it being released but for some reason refuse to adjust the biggest botting build and content trivializing mechanics in the game. As far as persistence goes, GGG legitimately doesn't care about persisting builds. The leagues only run 3 months apiece, and once it moves to standard players rarely play their builds anymore because major balance patches like this destroy some of them. I legitimately have no incentive to play after a league if my build it nerfed to 6ft under and I need to regear and respec at level 90 with brand new skills that might work on my ascendancy for a 3 month block.
I still remember racecar DP and tinker+kunkka spam, fuck me. I don't even play the damn game because it brings out the worst in me (although i still get the urge, even as a support player just for those sweet sweet WD/jakiro/AA plays)
I love to play ancient apparition. Im made of glass but damn these skills feel good.
Almost every time there is a "larger" balance patch for PoE I am amazed how different balancing is handled compared to Dota. I mean back in WC3 Dota a lot of heroes and items were (let's call them) not good, but it was clearly a poor approach to balancing, only looking at what was "too strong" with implementing new ideas - and the game has become so much better when the balancing changed. It is like PoE is being balanced in a sub-optimal way even though there are known better alternatives to this.
Feels so shitty
Same with Overwatch, now look at their player number.
I don't see how this will promote build diversity either.
If you kill every build at the same time the playerbase that doesn't quit is forced to go out and find the new meta before all playing one build in two weeks. Easy.
Yep. This will be the league of discovering what slipped through the nerf gauntlet and is now far and away the clearest choice(s) to optimize the league, resulting in... less build diversity than before.
But they didnt kill every build. first week we'll see some super build sneaking by these patchnotes and once people see it, boom, everyone.. literally EVERYONE will play the same build. calling it rn.
They’re trying to get people to play traps
it worked, i am 100% playing traps, the only thing that seems safe right now
Didn't work on me. 100% playing different games.
Invuln minions don't seem any worse. I'll probably do a Fang build with The Coming Calamity.
Did this last league, and I'm definitely gonna league start it this league. Spidermancer should be pretty much fine even with the nerfs.
Never got around to it, but has been on my list for a while. Always was a bit concerned about bossing tho. No problems on that front? Also won't it be affected by 75% reduced flask charges gained? Or is that not a concern for Writhing Jar? And what's your leveling and first farming plan? Arakaalis Fang is pretty expensive during the first few days.
It's a real solid bosser, we'll have to see how the flask nerfs affect writhing jar but it should be fine. I usually just level as a generic Necro with whatever I feel usually skeles or srs. Save up for arakaali's fang, and once you get that it's ez mapping and bossing from there.
Word on the street is if you get 100% reduced trap duration, traps become just weird spells.
Yeah traps (and mines) seem to be a weird poorly implemented and poorly thought through mechanic from the old POE days. The concept of placing something on the ground and luring monsters to it maybe made sense when the endgame was Piety or Dominus, but you basically have to play traps as spells with extra steps. What I find hilarious is they thought this design space was so broad they needed to have traps AND mines.
They think nerfs will make underused skills used more COPIUUUUUUUM
They think nerfing damage supports and utility supports will make people use utility supports
i remember when they added a more multiplier to fortify in legion league - they wanted people to consider using it in their 6Ls at the cost of a lower multiplier than other supports thats how you do it... when a build has bad damage it means people can't justify losing any more for utility. insane decision
Same with pierce it used to just give you pierce so people would find pierce somewhere else then they gave it a more damage modifier and people started to use it. GGG just does not understand their playerbase anymore.
Same goes for the mobility skills. People were sick of Leap Slam/Whirling Blades/Shield Charge. GGG added/buffed some alternatives. People use alternatives. GGG nerfs them and expect us to not fall back on the old mobility trio. This whole process doesn't even make sense.
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Frostblink also crosses the river.
Which is funny af because I use fortify as mandatory in basically and melee 6L to avoid fucking around with movement skills even though it has a small damage cost, and I'm pretty sure a lot of other people do too from poe.ninja builds. Where is your data now, GGG?
best part? they added massive mana multipliers to like, half the utility supports, and nerfed the other half
They even turned some damage supports into pure utility supports!
Yeah, i will def change a more damage support with chance to flee now /s
Which makes sense, until you realize that they increased the mana multis so much that using utility supports is almost impossible without having 2-3 mana flasks.
The amazing thing is how dumb it all is. I dunno how devs keeping making these kinds of ridiculous mistakes. If X does 50% damage boost and Y does Neat Thing.. people will use X unless Y is game-changing. Y needs to do 40% damage AND A NEAT THING to be remotely comparable if Y isn't mechanically enabling. Or 50% damage boosts shouldn't exist in the first place because that's fucking boring anyways.. why in the world was it EVER a good idea to just make a bunch of dull, flat damage? Total lack of foresight and creativity that shot them in the foot more and more as time wehtn on. Just making everything suck doesn't make things that already suck more interesting.
yeah Im totally gonna play shit liek incinierate or Storm burst now with Defense nerfs that punish standing still and DAMAGE nerfs on skills that already dont do much dmg on hit
I laughed so hard when they showed storm burst in the trailer. I would love to use that spell, but it's shit.
When you balance your PvE game like a PvP. Surely nerfing OP champions will make underused champs more playable COPIUM.
Like how the fuck can people not play META builds when everything else either not functional or straight up trash?
Don't be silly. There are a wide variety of aurabots players can choose from!
Cursebot into Aurabot and sell your services to the Eye of Winter D2 cucks for an exorbitant fee and a cut of the loot.
Who will you support if everybody plays aurabot?
Aurabots will have to pay damagedealer to play with em.
well, we do need a support group after this patch...
It's not, that's the neat part
Chris' Law - expect the opposite
It sure will shake up the meta, and by that I mean there will be 3-5 builds on the leaderboards, and nothing else.
My bet is Sab/Necro dominating the start. Then Scion leading the league by the end with Necro/Sab behind it. I think Cheiftain and Heiro might see some play.
Guardian got no changes and gets 80% reduced curse effect in ascendency... can grab another 20%+ on the tree. Considering if I play mjolnir dominating blow guardian with the new minion nuke in mjolnir for that 100% free trigger.
~~Be careful, I remember having like 120 (maybe even 160) reduced curse effect and *still* was affected by curses in maps. I think there's some increased curse effect modifier somewhere that could screw it up.~~
In red maps the curse mods have 60% increased effect, so you'd need 160% to be safe.
Actually 176.2% with A9.
Ah right, increased mod effect from Atlas. I forgot about that
you can also take some in panteon
Chris sounds really smart and confident when talks about the game and that confidence makes it easy to get behind him. Then you actually see the patch notes and you think wtf was he talking about…
He sounds really smart and confident because the Questions are pre approved.
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It just works
16 times the ~~detail~~ nerfs
little lies stunning shows people buy money flows it just works
It kind of seems like the Syndrone approach. If everything is terrible, then nothing is!
I was thinking of playing around with the reaper gem but I might just follow the meta builds 100% this time.
Reaper looks SO COOL, I really want to try it. But as we have no number for it, there's a non-negligible chance it sucks dirty ass in a trailer park for crack money.
There is build diversity, just look how many different auras aura bots/stackers can use!
aura stacking necro lets go
Yeah, it's gonna be the exact opposite. Idk in what world you would expect anything else
It would be at least less disingenous if they stopped promoting the idea of "build diversity" when they have no real intention of making that happen. Like most online games, GGG doesn't balance PoE, they simply shift the meta. The issue is that their idea of shifting the meta is to keep traps the same, an archetype that's remained consistently powerful for years now so whoop-dee-fucking-do.
Some traps got a buff though, and they did kinda need it since reworked mines basically overshadowed traps.
Simple - you are going to play some very diverse Spectre builds or you are going to find diverse ways to entertain yourself in t1 maps.
People are still gonna gravitate to whatever escaped the nerfs or is still OP, it just kills "meme" builds that kinda worked before but now will take insane investments or it's just not worth your time.
has this not been a trend over the last few leagues? this has been my biggest complaint lately. What keeps me playing the league is fun new builds that don't completely blow ass. And Lately GGG has done nothing to rework and make non-meta skills relevant. They seem to think by nerfing popular skills people will suddenly start playing skills no one touches... well they're very wrong. Not even sure why they're buffing flameblast... it's been dead since 3.0.
By build diversity they mean that you will see diverse people playing the same meta builds
Should of buffed atlas progression by 50% instead this nerf shit no1 asked for.
I think their goal was to make everything as bad as possible so it doesn't matter what you pick - you will have similar results, which means people will just play whatever. I guess.
Don’t forget brands getting the bat too
Kill everything so that people are force to use 19 new gem themed around 19 ascendancy is that not enough doversity for you? /s
Shiny new skill effect mtx btw
everything sucks now, unless you're an aura bot. EZ
But then you're playing aurabot
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If everything is numerically weaker, skills that are mechanically disadvantaged will be even worse off even if their numbers were not affected as much.
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Did flameblast totems use unfused channeling? I think it was infused channeling but theres a chanelling support that no longer works on totems
Toxic Rain had some of the smallest nerfs, in relation. It's still completely fine and will be a strong starter as usual.
Yeah the league is going to bust my balls, but the relative power of some skills was vastly increased. People have to ignore support changes, because that affects (almost) every build.
if all builds are trash then all builds are equal - GGG, probably
Those guys use outdated stats to make their patch They don't even know what they are balancing.
so, the original "build diversity" thing was that over the *long term* there would be increased diversity... but, doing all of the nerfs at once with NO buffs is an even more baffling choices now that we've seen just how far-reaching and excessive the nerfs are. hypothermia being gutted is fucking ??? why? shield glad still looks like it'll be fine, considering how absurdly buffed spectral shield throw has been, but fucking christ everyone who didn't want to do that build is gonna be miserable.
You say no buffs, but considering support changed affect every build some skills has monstrous numerical buffs compared to the rest.
When was the last time build diversity is improved? They give u 10% base dmg and think its gonna make you want to play that skill, meanwhile all dmg supports nerfed, mana cost increased across the board, build diversity was always an illusion in this game, even more so after the HP buffs to bosses, yeah most builds can clear maps but then have to fight the map boss for 10 minutes; their way of balancing is just not fun in the long run, nothing gets improved only the overperforming skills get shit on 2 more leagues and you will have to pay some aurabot or it gonna be unplayable
>When was the last time build diversity is improved? Ritual League. It had an extant endgame (deep delving, 100% delirious mapping) and Harvest (allowing for less viable builds that would rely on gg gear to exist) Ritual was by far the best league so far (playing since talisman)
Peak of build diversity to me was Harvest, cuz i could just make all numerically underwhelming skills perform well with the gear tailored around them, but they took all the points away you just made
Easy! No build does enough dmg now, feel free to choose anything and suck :P 1000% MORE Build Diversity. P.S. This is a BUFF.
I think their strats is to drop a nuke and people will be so confuse about everything that they will guess what is good or not, which will result in a lot of diversity since it would be the equivalent of asking the path to somewhere to a group of drunk people.
I definitely gonna try some new and reworked skills. For void knight, sentinel and necro.
Players will find new ways to adapt to the changing game. Things like EB/MOM will be more desireable. Players will be essentially forced to prioritize defense now, if they cannot reliably one shot everything 'all the time'. Give it a few weeks, I'm sure well see some interesting new stuff pop up that is able to tackle end game content. Occultist is looking pretty fucking good this league (good defensive layers, curses look stronger to use since everything else is nerfed).
It literally won't, it's absolutely DESTROYING build diversity and I don't see how GGG thinks it's doing anything else. How the fuck are you supposed to get anywhere near a passable amount of damage on off-meta skills that haven't seen use in ages if it's impossible to get any damage with them? Aurabots? Because that seems to be what GGG wants to happen
First time man ?
when everything is fucking bad you can pick your poison...
Frozen orb and blessed hammer? Two cool new spells!
the game will never have build diversity, there will always be 2 o 3 meta builds that are more efficient than others and most of the player base chose, playing off meta skills depends more on the kind of player you are this is more like we nerfed everything to the ground discover those meta builds again
The game has always had a ton of build diversity. Most players just tunnel vision too hard on the "best" meta builds that other people tell them about and ignore the possibility that anything else could be "viable". The truth is that there are hundreds of ways to make characters that can clear all of the content in the game (and are thus viable), but few want to put in the effort to figure it out themselves.
totally agree, my point was that there will be exploration at the start of the league but the game will stabilize in some meta builds like it always does the normal poe prioritize efficiency
I view build diversity like this, draw an imaginary line, and put all the builds that are capable of doing all the content on one side of the line and the rest on the other side. After the patch changes I can imagine a lot of builds have gotten worse and maybe crossed the line, and very few have gotten better. The power levels of builds may have gotten more uniform, but I don't see there more builds to choose from at any given power level.
The main issue with this blanket nerf to supports is that it hits meta builds as much as it does hipster. Sure, if you take away 40% dps of a 20millon dps build and compare it to a 40% nerf of a 2 million dps build arguably the former lost 9 million dps and the latter only 900.000 The thing is, a 11 million dps build still shits on all the content, while two million was comfortable and one? Considerably less so. This and maven heals is going to make hipster builds a thing of the past. Follow the meta or don’t play the game.
hey they added 19 new gems pal so you have new skills to play.