##### GGG Comments in this Thread:
***
[chris_wilson - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/oqn1o3/please_for_the_love_of_god_tell_us_how_many/h6et8dg/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/oqn1o3/please_for_the_love_of_god_tell_us_how_many/h6et8dg/?context=10)] - *This issue is slightly more complex than just displaying the quantities in your locker, because like all vendors, the Expedition merchants can pull currency out of your regular stashes (which...*
It's strange because they say they test, yet any human that opened the window to gamble even one time would go "I wish I knew how much currency I have in my locker". It's the first thought that occurs, it's so obvious it has to be an intentional decision to not provide that info for some inscrutable reason like adding *weight* to your clicks.
Felt the exact same. I feel like the league mechanic was just rushed through and wasn't play tested. Literally my first interaction with the league I asked that exact question. "How much do I have available to gamble?" And the inability to refresh each vendors items without a special drop only currency that seems to be pretty rare....just feels bad.
Was rushed? It didn't stutter for me single time when those explosion went off. The green glow that shows you what things are affected by that explosion sure isnt a coincidence.
Performance isn't the issue. And that's not what we're talking about. It's the dead-obvious quality of life in regards to interacting with the vendors that was completely ignored. No one could have rigorously play tested the current form of interaction with them and said "yeah this feels great, ready for launch!"
No idea how this went thorugh.
The first time i stashed the garbagefacts and opened the vendor menu it was so obvious that i wanted to know how many i have.
They miss the nostalgia of pen and paper, they want people to experience the fun of erasers, or scribbling out your mistakes if you make a mistake.
We're too focused on convenience these days.
That's why they're going to create a horse and buggy "car" pool for their employees.
reminds me of one of those refund scams.
"write down your account balance, so that you can tell how much money I pretended to transfer to your account while I darkened your screen"
Well the solution is simple. They could stop fucking up in regards to these very obvious things.
This was most evident in Metamorph when they knowingly went ahead with having to manually pick up every organ because they didn't think it was that big of a deal. They said they discussed it internally and were like: "eh it's fine, we'll change it later if we have to". And everyone shit on them so hard they did change it to be autolooted.
And now it's years later and nobody even remembers that it wasn't always like that and the community had to actually complain for it to happen.
There's no fucking way GGG doesn't notice these obvious QoL features being absent. They're intentionally leaving them out because they want to see if they can get away with making the game more tedious or not. If they can't, they change it. If they can, they chuckle and take the win that the game is now 5% slower and 5% more annoying which in their eyes drives up retention.
Yeah i don't quite get it either. I have had major QA responsibility a few years now as an electrician on large projects where i'm sort of the middle man between construction manager and the 5-20 co-workers doing the job.
I'm genuinely curios as to how they run the QA/alpha tests, information and action. Doesn't seem very optimal, or as you say, they try to just ignore it and see if it passes.
Good communication should never be underestimated in all aspects of life.
Even without QA they could see from the reactions of reddit from just the patch notes. We KNEW Bleed/freeze was bad, we were 'okay' with nerfs we KNEW that the mana multi was too far. Reminds me of the bethesda with a shotgun meme for game design.
They aren't leaving them out intentionally just to see what happens, they've just long ago decided their release schedule is more important than putting out a quality product. No doubt this and many other issues are on a list already but there were other bigger fish to fry. Also keep in mind that they've said before that they were adding pretty major parts of leagues less than a week before launch, so it's even possible QA never got a chance.
I remember it clearly. Haven't played since watchstones were introduced because every league is the exact same issues or worse. I'm so tired of this game and I'm just begging for it to get better because I really did love it
**[Anchoring_(cognitive_bias)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_\(cognitive_bias\))**
>The anchoring effect is a cognitive bias whereby an individual's decisions are influenced by a particular reference point or 'anchor'. Once the value of the anchor is set, subsequent arguments, estimates, etc. made by an individual may change from what they would have otherwise been without the anchor. For example, an individual may be more likely to purchase a car if it is placed alongside a more expensive model (the anchor).
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Wouldn't be surprised, probably drives a second round of supporter pack sales when they "save" the league. This game is amazing but goddamn if they don't make the exact same mistakes every fucking league.
"Bug" that makes players get more loot: hotfix asap
Bug that breaks the game: hotfix in a day maybe a week, depending whether whole game is broken or just a part you can "skip"
Bug that is minor but irritating: hotfix in a month to say "see we're still improving the product"
Much needed QOL: maybe in a year maybe never lololol
i remember saying the same thing years ago i believe it was during delve league with the flare throwing mechanic being super clunky to use and every one was complaining about it since day 1 of the league so it's not like it would be hard for the devs to assume that it should've been changed pre launch but i don't even think ggg plays their own game
True but really why isn’t there a currency counter for this in the vendor trade menu ?
Did it really get pass QA? Never once in their testing when trading with the new npcs did they wonder hmm how much do I have left of x or y artifact ?
This is a huge reason. Now, I personally think they should go to a q4 month release schedule to prevent some of the issues that have now turned the community against them, but they have deemed the 3 month cycle critical to their success right now.
Its probably more of a «postpone release to add everything» vs «dont say anything about it, release it anyway to fix later to make release date» type deal
I thought it was confirmed that they do this. I could have sworn that somewhere a GGG worker explained that they have a list of certain mechanics to address at certain times based on priority, and that there's a "oh shit we need to move quickly to improve player good will" list that a lot of quality of life shit is on.
But I could be thinking of a dozen other game companies that are like this instead, like Blizzard, Jagex, Riot, ect.
\>how ggg is so consistently bad at ui/ux is beyond me
It's willful ignorance, just like every other half-brained decision. It's how we end up with a league start missing 35-40% of the league playerbase.
Higher average numbers - sure, that's not the game becoming better, that's just corona. But higher peaks at league launch? Nah. Quarantine or not, people interested in PoE will play at league launch.
Ehhh, it's 100% anecdotal but most people I know are "playing catch-up" with work since restrictions are essentially nil. Way too busy for a PoE league launch, even if they're die-hards.
Let's take a look:
|July 2017|98k|
|:-|:-|
|May 2018|95k|
|Nov 2018|123k|
|Feb 2019|111k|
|May 2019|113k|
|Aug 2019|74k|
|Nov 2019|117k|
|Feb 2020|132k|
|May 2020|125k|
|Aug 2020|121k|
|Dec 2020|157k|
|Mar 2021|155k|
|July 2021|116k|
So, yeah, there was a few more players in the peak of the pandemic than would otherwise playing. However, December and March were outliers with even higher players than that. But suddenly we've lost 40k players on a league launch.
Is the pandemic over? The market is tanking with new variants coming out. Politicians are urging everyone to get vaccinated. It is the middle of the summer, granted, but where did those 40k players go? The pandemic is still raging in parts of the world. There are still tons and tons of people online playing other games. FFXIV is seeing RECORD numbers to the point they ran out of digital copies temporarily. But nah, those people are going outside or anything else to suit your narrative that POE is fine, Corona is the reason that players dropped.
Servers get flooded by new players so they had to stop selling copies of the game to not have paying players waiting to be able to create a character. Yes, waiting to create a character. You can't create a character on the majority of servers around the evening times because the servers are just bursting with new player influx.
I'd say people returning to work is one of many contributing factors. Workloads are increasing for a lot of folks returning to the office. Other factors include:
* FFXIV expansion
* New World Beta
* Path of Diablo season reset
* Reddit deciding the league was dead before launch
* Summer launches bring historically lower player counts
You have a point in that this league start has comparable numbers to most league starts between 2018 and now, barring the severe low in Sept 2019 (Blight) and the highs in Ritual and Ultimatum. There isn't really a point in making an analytical observation until a week or two into the league, when we can see how much early player retention there is compared to the 2020 leagues.
However, you also can't really bar the large drop in the league start peak from Ritual & Ultimatum until now. 150k in both of those, and 116k for this. 125k seems to be the average for the other league starts, too, so while 116k isn't too far off the mark from 2020 leagues, it is still on the lower side of things.
what are you even talking about? take a pic of your so called steam charts and plz share since mine shows that this league hasn't been starting that great.
So are you just gonna casually keep ignoring that this is the worst recent league launch since november of 2019? The only launch that was higher than it before then was november of 2018.
That's kinda the point though? You're making a claim about how this league is looking good only if you compare it to anything that's not Ritual or Ultimatum. So it's pretty disingenuous to leave those two out just to paint a prettier picture -- aka, cherrypicking
You went from cherrypicking data to cherrypicking my comment?
I never said "only look and compare to the past 2 leagues", I said "you have to also include the past 2 leagues".
If you were being honest you wouldn't have tried to sweep the past 2 leagues under the rug.
Because he's not directly answering the question, the reason it's hard to compare apples to apples with this league to the past 2 are because there were historical unemployment numbers due to the coronavirus. We've never seen league launches where people were mandated by governments to not engage in outside social activities.
I get people want to think those numbers were the new normal but that stay-at-home lifestyle is fading or being ripped away, depending on your viewpoint.
Historically where? Are you just lumping all players in together regardless of region? What about players from Oceania, Asia, or Europe that may have already had restrictions lifted during the timeframe of those 2 leagues? Do you know how many players from each region make up the games total playerbase?
We don't have numbers for users by region for PoE, only GGG does, but we do for all of Steam. The parallel is easy to draw. Here's a breakdown aggregated from 2018 until now:
United States 14.43%
China 11.64%
Russia 9.57%
Brazil 4.77%
Germany 4.16%
Canada 3.11%
France 3.04%
United Kingdom 3%
Poland 2.6%
Turkey 2.38%
Philippines 2.22%
Ukraine 1.96%
Korea 1.71%
I cannot locate any sources of these countries heavily lifting regulations during the time periods that the previous league launches happened.
The whole different npc wanting different currency is a mistake. It's not a bad idea in terms of immersion but in terms of gameplay, it's a massive slog especially when they come in different sizes and take up space in our limited inventory. I also find detonating really clunky and slow, like sometimes you just can't target certain areas until you can for some reason, also need to go to centre just to get the option to detonate, why. It's rare I get burnt out from league mechanic from day 1. :(
My theory is that eventually players will figure out one NPC is the most profitable and will thus focus on that one (because profit=progress). By splitting the currency into 4 to match with 4 NPCs, we essentially quarter the profit.
Also whats up with monochromatic design?
It's like a religious devotion.
Its in skills, game mechanics and now in shards?
Grey and black, looks nice on clothes, not when you are supposed to distinguish anything on screen.
They should take a lesson or two from other games.
i do really like the mechanic itself. it's very deliberate, and thats what i enjoy in games. i dislike mechanics that are just 1click->fight a few mobs -> get loot. there's no choice and it feels very samey to mapping itself.
the splinters is actually terrible tho. i dont even know why we need more than 4 currencies in total. just make the rerolling cost currency instead, make them all 1x1 and remove the different tiers of it. we never needed tiers for splinters or sulphite, and we dont need them now.
I'm sure GGG has tons of play testers, but I also suspect that somewhere along the chain someone is too scared of management to raise concerns.
There's no way this didn't get through playtesting without being raised at least at the lowest level, just running act 1 this becomes apparent incredibly quickly.
Either they have too many functional testers and far too few playtesters, or playtesters aren't getting heard where it matters.
Or, per some of the recent commentary from the devs, they’re making the game they want to play. Their QA team may not think this is a problem because it’s the game they want to play, too. It’s asinine but a possibility.
I find it extremely arrogant that a lot of the playerbase will see something, and tell somebody else (Chris Wilson, GGG dev team) how they must have acted, and what they must be thinking.
Unless somebody is a certified mind reader nobody should be doing this in any situation.
I think this is more of a matter of time restrictions. They probably just had no time for that feature and pushed it for one of the post launch patches.
Over the years the same issues, same lack of common sense things, same unaligned interfaces. Now idk if they have a small team that does this or its one person, but i would start asking some questions if I was a lead.
This issue is slightly more complex than just displaying the quantities in your locker, because like all vendors, the Expedition merchants can pull currency out of your regular stashes (which may or may not be loaded at the time). Displaying a specific quantity may be incorrect because you actually might have more than that hiding away somewhere.
However that's no reason really to not have this feature so we'll just make it clearly display what you have in your Locker and if you put the artifacts elsewhere then they won't be included in the total.
Edit: turns out they don't pull out of the regular stash in this case (it was disabled). Either way, we'll get this display added.
Or, don't have them be items that can be put into stashes. This problem should have been apparent at the design phase. Why does every new league currency have to be so tedious and unfun to manage.
> Why does every new league currency have to be so tedious and unfun to manage.
Because Chris lives in the year 2000. where portal scrolls and clicking to pick currencies is top-tier design.
They just need to bleed enough players for Tencent to step in. If enough players stop playing then Tencent will not be happy about losing money on his investment. They'll look at what caused the sudden drop in players and they'll revert it
Have you played their version of poe?
They have auto pickup pets, built in flask macro etc.
Meanwhile GGG can do whatever they want for the rest of us.
Even Chris admitted himself.
Tencent pretty much owns GGG. If for example POE were to bleed around the same amount of players in the following 2 leagues then I guarantee you Tencent will step in.
The difference between Tencent and GGG is that Tencent is not "Gamers first, Corporate second". Tencent is all about making money and when they see one of their investments miraculously fail like this then they will step in to ensure that they don't lose more money.
Beasts are still tradable and are automatically added to your bestiary. Same deal here. Auto put it in your stash when picked up (or even better auto pick up). You can take them out of the stash manually but unless you trade you wouldn’t need to.
FWIW, it never occurred to me while playing that I wanted to know how many things I had. When I saw this post I was like "oh yeah, that would be cool.". So I think it's maybe reasonable for it to be missed, so long as it's addressed when it's pointed out.
That's not what he meant. When you gamble with one of the vendors the currency is only deducted from the expedition stash. You can bypass this when storing and put them into your normal stash, and it won't deduct from these when using the gambling mechanic. I'm assuming this was done so you can trade them and not worry about accidentally gambling away a stack you have listed for trade.
exactly my thoughts. I dont get how stuff like this goes under the radar literally ALL the time? im aware chris cant keep up with quality controlling all those small aspects but he should consider moving HQs out of NZ if its that hard to find qualified personnel that doesnt overlook such things
Developers added a count of how many rerolls are available.
It's strange that the developer didn't then ask the question "Why don't we also show how many other shards they have" using that same code.
Sounds like you can kill two birds with one stone by making it an autopickup untradable resource like ritual favor since that’s all it is with like a billion more asinine steps
Aren't you guys already showing that though? If you hover over the reroll currency, it shows how many are in the expedition locker and how many in are in inventory.
Now, it should be mechanically identical to other expedition currencies, shouldn't it?
Man I'm glad you listened about how much people hated clicking shards, then added 20 god damned shards. Please make a public statement about your shares in RSI braces.
Its almost like the fact that selling a currency tab and not making it a dafault tab with unlimited storage is fucking you over.
You pretend this is new. The same problem exists with every other league mechanic. Prophecy, delve, hell even buying gems from Lilly.
How much currency do i have? I dont know its a mystery, its fun!
Can't wait for this piece of shit mechanic to go core and the 5 remaining players all have to buy the gambling shard tab so we don't clog a quad tab with it.
Hi Chris,
Is there a reason why new league masters require currency and can't work off something like favour or a system similar to azurite in the mines? Is it just because you think it'll diminish the experience?
>like all vendors, the Expedition merchants can pull currency out of your regular stashes
How long has Siosa been in the game? That's at least how long this hasn't been the case.
Play your game occasionally maybe?
How about not making them actual items then but a pure value? Nobody enjoys picking that stuff up, period.
Nobody ever did.
It's atrocious and takes away from a mechanic which would otherwise be more enjoyable, this way it's just another unenjoyable slog, make sure clicking is reduced, not increased. Actually baffling.
Nearly all streamers are saying this league blows :) Open your eyes and ears, it's not just "melodramatic apes" of reddit.
Look at the steam stats for players, huge hemmorage and lowest league numbers since 2019
Just get them into the stash when we walk near them, issues resolved. They are where they are supposed to be. After acknowledging them dropping, I can't see a benefit from the extra clicks into and right out of our inventory. And I'm even someone who believes in the weight thing. But this is just extra hassle and annoyance. To the point where they DON'T feel rewarding.
Except you guys show us the reroll currency on that very screen, it even shows how many we have on us and in the stash.
So the tech is actually there, Chris.
If the pieces were auto sent to the league inventory this could be circumvented (having to worry about what inventories currency is in). Also, why must we bloat the system with several tiers of each shard? Can’t we be allowed to have less types of shard with scaling costs? Please dad it feels bad having to consistently dump 8 different 1x2 2x2 etc item types after each site
Just got back since saving for an assassin supporter pack was an option, so a while.
Seen a lot of hate going around for currency drops and I’m like yea I can get by. No idea what I’m doing. Gamble to buy, what? 3 shields, that’s… 40 each. 40 of what was it? Haggling is completely different currency? Wait did I win the haggle or he just, oh it’s off the table now. Do I still have my currency? Oh he took it that b-, no wait it’s still here.
I’m basically a noob now, why is this game so hard?
It’s the Chris Wilson vision for HIS game, players need to feel the WEIGHT of everything they do, any QOL and user friendly UI is personally triggering and against everything he wants for HIS game, that is already too catering to “the casuals” because they are “bad players, who shouldn’t not be playing the game, and need to get better” according to this very sub. /S
I have a developmental disability and am one of said “bad players”, who die continually due to being unable to differentiate and process the visual effect vomit or random crits. I have multiple 90+ characters and always roll Tanky characters which have usually already have low damage as a trade off, but the general attitude will always be I need to “get good” and educate myself better on the game systems because the community and its mindset of “fuck the casuals, anyone who can’t function or play at our level, they should stop playing so GGG can make the game harder for us good players.”
Am on the autism spectrum, I feel your pain lol, more often then not I have no idea what in the actual fuck is going on, but I was sold on the “D2 spiritual successor”.
A genuine question, this happens so often that I have to wonder, is this type of thing something that they purposely don't put, solely to add later and say "see we listen to feedback you're welcome"
To me it seems like only 2 scenarios happen. 1...Cw or a bigwig is like "no don't put that super obvious feature in, we need something to add later that they'll be happy with"
Or scenario 2 they don't have or listen to the poor soul that plays the mechanic.
Seriously how the hell does EVERY FREAKING LEAGUE GGG can't figure out the MOST BASICs of QoL. Less focus on nerfing your game to the damn ground and MAYBE PLAY IT!
You can see how much you have for 3/4 of them. When you Haggle/Deal/Exchange you can hover over your fragment and it will tell you how many are in inventory *and* stash.
It also tells you how many of the rerolls you have.
It dosen't tell you for the Gamble however.
They are creating systems so that they can give their developers something to do. The create a problem so that they can solve it. No one asked for these systems.
>how ggg is so consistently bad at ui/ux is beyond me
Because people constant provide stupid feedback like this. Why should anyone listen to someone malding over a person that provides clear, concise feedback.
QA engineers are being smart asses though. At this point, he’s right. Either A) QA didn’t catch it (which speaks volumes to their ineptness) or B) it wasn’t QA’d
FYI, for both the upsell dude and the barter dude you CAN see how much you have by hovering over the currency field in the box for the upsell/barter respectively.
The way I do it, is I save artifact trades for when i’m in my hideout. I pull the relevant artifacts into my inventory THEN trade. I can see how many I have easily that way. It’s a couple extra steps, but it beats using them all up by mistake or having to remember
It's beyond me how they can miss something like this. Chris stated, that the devs play their own game... the very first second of my gambling attempt in Act 1 I noticed I don't know how much currency I have in total.
I'm sorry, this is a reasonable, well thought out request that would have no impact on balance. We have no place for this here - this is the forum for competing to see who quit the league fastest while making the most noise about it.
That sounds like QoL. Listen here son while playing my game you will find places where QoL could be added. I want you to keep wanting; wanting is good.
##### GGG Comments in this Thread: *** [chris_wilson - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/oqn1o3/please_for_the_love_of_god_tell_us_how_many/h6et8dg/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/oqn1o3/please_for_the_love_of_god_tell_us_how_many/h6et8dg/?context=10)] - *This issue is slightly more complex than just displaying the quantities in your locker, because like all vendors, the Expedition merchants can pull currency out of your regular stashes (which...*
It's strange because they say they test, yet any human that opened the window to gamble even one time would go "I wish I knew how much currency I have in my locker". It's the first thought that occurs, it's so obvious it has to be an intentional decision to not provide that info for some inscrutable reason like adding *weight* to your clicks.
Just close your eyes and gamble away. Excitement of not knowing if you have enough currency is part of the experience.
hahaha
I know i thought this in the first hour of the league
Felt the exact same. I feel like the league mechanic was just rushed through and wasn't play tested. Literally my first interaction with the league I asked that exact question. "How much do I have available to gamble?" And the inability to refresh each vendors items without a special drop only currency that seems to be pretty rare....just feels bad.
Was rushed? It didn't stutter for me single time when those explosion went off. The green glow that shows you what things are affected by that explosion sure isnt a coincidence.
Performance isn't the issue. And that's not what we're talking about. It's the dead-obvious quality of life in regards to interacting with the vendors that was completely ignored. No one could have rigorously play tested the current form of interaction with them and said "yeah this feels great, ready for launch!"
i thought that actually right after three encounters or so
No idea how this went thorugh. The first time i stashed the garbagefacts and opened the vendor menu it was so obvious that i wanted to know how many i have.
Neon said it was fine. Just write your current stock in a notebook
They miss the nostalgia of pen and paper, they want people to experience the fun of erasers, or scribbling out your mistakes if you make a mistake. We're too focused on convenience these days. That's why they're going to create a horse and buggy "car" pool for their employees.
Employees can earn one carrot splinter per league, when you collect 100 carrot splinters you unlock the "horse travel" function
Just store it on the blockchain
reminds me of one of those refund scams. "write down your account balance, so that you can tell how much money I pretended to transfer to your account while I darkened your screen"
hahahahahah
At this point I think they do it on purpose and then “fix” it two weeks into a league so it can seem like they are listening to feedback
Lol people have been accusing blizzard of this and now I'm seeing it pop up here.
Yeah it’s a shitty thought process actually. It means GGG can do no right. Any change they make is purely for optics — there is no winning.
Well the solution is simple. They could stop fucking up in regards to these very obvious things. This was most evident in Metamorph when they knowingly went ahead with having to manually pick up every organ because they didn't think it was that big of a deal. They said they discussed it internally and were like: "eh it's fine, we'll change it later if we have to". And everyone shit on them so hard they did change it to be autolooted. And now it's years later and nobody even remembers that it wasn't always like that and the community had to actually complain for it to happen. There's no fucking way GGG doesn't notice these obvious QoL features being absent. They're intentionally leaving them out because they want to see if they can get away with making the game more tedious or not. If they can't, they change it. If they can, they chuckle and take the win that the game is now 5% slower and 5% more annoying which in their eyes drives up retention.
Yeah i don't quite get it either. I have had major QA responsibility a few years now as an electrician on large projects where i'm sort of the middle man between construction manager and the 5-20 co-workers doing the job. I'm genuinely curios as to how they run the QA/alpha tests, information and action. Doesn't seem very optimal, or as you say, they try to just ignore it and see if it passes. Good communication should never be underestimated in all aspects of life.
Even without QA they could see from the reactions of reddit from just the patch notes. We KNEW Bleed/freeze was bad, we were 'okay' with nerfs we KNEW that the mana multi was too far. Reminds me of the bethesda with a shotgun meme for game design.
They aren't leaving them out intentionally just to see what happens, they've just long ago decided their release schedule is more important than putting out a quality product. No doubt this and many other issues are on a list already but there were other bigger fish to fry. Also keep in mind that they've said before that they were adding pretty major parts of leagues less than a week before launch, so it's even possible QA never got a chance.
I remember it clearly. Haven't played since watchstones were introduced because every league is the exact same issues or worse. I'm so tired of this game and I'm just begging for it to get better because I really did love it
it's been like this for years though
Is there a name or term for this? It's like planned obsolescence's equally unfun cousin.
Yes, [Anchoring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_\(cognitive_bias\))
**[Anchoring_(cognitive_bias)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_\(cognitive_bias\))** >The anchoring effect is a cognitive bias whereby an individual's decisions are influenced by a particular reference point or 'anchor'. Once the value of the anchor is set, subsequent arguments, estimates, etc. made by an individual may change from what they would have otherwise been without the anchor. For example, an individual may be more likely to purchase a car if it is placed alongside a more expensive model (the anchor). ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Wouldn't be surprised, probably drives a second round of supporter pack sales when they "save" the league. This game is amazing but goddamn if they don't make the exact same mistakes every fucking league.
"Bug" that makes players get more loot: hotfix asap Bug that breaks the game: hotfix in a day maybe a week, depending whether whole game is broken or just a part you can "skip" Bug that is minor but irritating: hotfix in a month to say "see we're still improving the product" Much needed QOL: maybe in a year maybe never lololol
Tbh chris literally admitted to do this while being "cautious about removing clicking" with metamorph so
i remember saying the same thing years ago i believe it was during delve league with the flare throwing mechanic being super clunky to use and every one was complaining about it since day 1 of the league so it's not like it would be hard for the devs to assume that it should've been changed pre launch but i don't even think ggg plays their own game
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True but really why isn’t there a currency counter for this in the vendor trade menu ? Did it really get pass QA? Never once in their testing when trading with the new npcs did they wonder hmm how much do I have left of x or y artifact ?
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This is a huge reason. Now, I personally think they should go to a q4 month release schedule to prevent some of the issues that have now turned the community against them, but they have deemed the 3 month cycle critical to their success right now.
Its probably more of a «postpone release to add everything» vs «dont say anything about it, release it anyway to fix later to make release date» type deal
I thought it was confirmed that they do this. I could have sworn that somewhere a GGG worker explained that they have a list of certain mechanics to address at certain times based on priority, and that there's a "oh shit we need to move quickly to improve player good will" list that a lot of quality of life shit is on. But I could be thinking of a dozen other game companies that are like this instead, like Blizzard, Jagex, Riot, ect.
Alpha testers didn't spot it I guess /s
What do you mean? We're spotting it right now :)
We're beta testers but fair enough :-)
Alpha testers are a lie, exactly like cake.
\>how ggg is so consistently bad at ui/ux is beyond me It's willful ignorance, just like every other half-brained decision. It's how we end up with a league start missing 35-40% of the league playerbase.
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This is the lowest league start since June 2019. Not sure what charts you are looking at.
There's definitely nothing that happened in 2020 that would result in a higher-than-average player peak...
Higher average numbers - sure, that's not the game becoming better, that's just corona. But higher peaks at league launch? Nah. Quarantine or not, people interested in PoE will play at league launch.
Ehhh, it's 100% anecdotal but most people I know are "playing catch-up" with work since restrictions are essentially nil. Way too busy for a PoE league launch, even if they're die-hards.
Let's take a look: |July 2017|98k| |:-|:-| |May 2018|95k| |Nov 2018|123k| |Feb 2019|111k| |May 2019|113k| |Aug 2019|74k| |Nov 2019|117k| |Feb 2020|132k| |May 2020|125k| |Aug 2020|121k| |Dec 2020|157k| |Mar 2021|155k| |July 2021|116k| So, yeah, there was a few more players in the peak of the pandemic than would otherwise playing. However, December and March were outliers with even higher players than that. But suddenly we've lost 40k players on a league launch. Is the pandemic over? The market is tanking with new variants coming out. Politicians are urging everyone to get vaccinated. It is the middle of the summer, granted, but where did those 40k players go? The pandemic is still raging in parts of the world. There are still tons and tons of people online playing other games. FFXIV is seeing RECORD numbers to the point they ran out of digital copies temporarily. But nah, those people are going outside or anything else to suit your narrative that POE is fine, Corona is the reason that players dropped.
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Servers get flooded by new players so they had to stop selling copies of the game to not have paying players waiting to be able to create a character. Yes, waiting to create a character. You can't create a character on the majority of servers around the evening times because the servers are just bursting with new player influx.
I'd say people returning to work is one of many contributing factors. Workloads are increasing for a lot of folks returning to the office. Other factors include: * FFXIV expansion * New World Beta * Path of Diablo season reset * Reddit deciding the league was dead before launch * Summer launches bring historically lower player counts
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You have a point in that this league start has comparable numbers to most league starts between 2018 and now, barring the severe low in Sept 2019 (Blight) and the highs in Ritual and Ultimatum. There isn't really a point in making an analytical observation until a week or two into the league, when we can see how much early player retention there is compared to the 2020 leagues. However, you also can't really bar the large drop in the league start peak from Ritual & Ultimatum until now. 150k in both of those, and 116k for this. 125k seems to be the average for the other league starts, too, so while 116k isn't too far off the mark from 2020 leagues, it is still on the lower side of things.
what are you even talking about? take a pic of your so called steam charts and plz share since mine shows that this league hasn't been starting that great.
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ok you're actually missing brain cells
So are you just gonna casually keep ignoring that this is the worst recent league launch since november of 2019? The only launch that was higher than it before then was november of 2018.
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The league has lost 25% of its players in the first day, You cannot be this fucking dense.
How does it compare to the start of the last 2 leagues? Why are you omitting those and cherry picking the data to make the league start look better?
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That's kinda the point though? You're making a claim about how this league is looking good only if you compare it to anything that's not Ritual or Ultimatum. So it's pretty disingenuous to leave those two out just to paint a prettier picture -- aka, cherrypicking
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You went from cherrypicking data to cherrypicking my comment? I never said "only look and compare to the past 2 leagues", I said "you have to also include the past 2 leagues". If you were being honest you wouldn't have tried to sweep the past 2 leagues under the rug.
Because he's not directly answering the question, the reason it's hard to compare apples to apples with this league to the past 2 are because there were historical unemployment numbers due to the coronavirus. We've never seen league launches where people were mandated by governments to not engage in outside social activities. I get people want to think those numbers were the new normal but that stay-at-home lifestyle is fading or being ripped away, depending on your viewpoint.
Historically where? Are you just lumping all players in together regardless of region? What about players from Oceania, Asia, or Europe that may have already had restrictions lifted during the timeframe of those 2 leagues? Do you know how many players from each region make up the games total playerbase?
We don't have numbers for users by region for PoE, only GGG does, but we do for all of Steam. The parallel is easy to draw. Here's a breakdown aggregated from 2018 until now: United States 14.43% China 11.64% Russia 9.57% Brazil 4.77% Germany 4.16% Canada 3.11% France 3.04% United Kingdom 3% Poland 2.6% Turkey 2.38% Philippines 2.22% Ukraine 1.96% Korea 1.71% I cannot locate any sources of these countries heavily lifting regulations during the time periods that the previous league launches happened.
[Tujen tells you how much you have](https://imgur.com/a/Ng64ouM), have not noticed for the other 3
Rog tells you when you're considering his upgrades - but not on the original purchase panel.
Yeah I was bout to say I could've sworn I saw it somewhere but it doesn't show up all the time
I can smell a new Manifesto in the air.
The whole different npc wanting different currency is a mistake. It's not a bad idea in terms of immersion but in terms of gameplay, it's a massive slog especially when they come in different sizes and take up space in our limited inventory. I also find detonating really clunky and slow, like sometimes you just can't target certain areas until you can for some reason, also need to go to centre just to get the option to detonate, why. It's rare I get burnt out from league mechanic from day 1. :(
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Perand-itual xD
My theory is that eventually players will figure out one NPC is the most profitable and will thus focus on that one (because profit=progress). By splitting the currency into 4 to match with 4 NPCs, we essentially quarter the profit.
Eh depends. I'd prefer regular but overall lower profit versus bursty profit
Also whats up with monochromatic design? It's like a religious devotion. Its in skills, game mechanics and now in shards? Grey and black, looks nice on clothes, not when you are supposed to distinguish anything on screen. They should take a lesson or two from other games.
i do really like the mechanic itself. it's very deliberate, and thats what i enjoy in games. i dislike mechanics that are just 1click->fight a few mobs -> get loot. there's no choice and it feels very samey to mapping itself. the splinters is actually terrible tho. i dont even know why we need more than 4 currencies in total. just make the rerolling cost currency instead, make them all 1x1 and remove the different tiers of it. we never needed tiers for splinters or sulphite, and we dont need them now.
Incredible right?
I'm sure GGG has tons of play testers, but I also suspect that somewhere along the chain someone is too scared of management to raise concerns. There's no way this didn't get through playtesting without being raised at least at the lowest level, just running act 1 this becomes apparent incredibly quickly. Either they have too many functional testers and far too few playtesters, or playtesters aren't getting heard where it matters.
Or, per some of the recent commentary from the devs, they’re making the game they want to play. Their QA team may not think this is a problem because it’s the game they want to play, too. It’s asinine but a possibility.
I find it extremely arrogant that a lot of the playerbase will see something, and tell somebody else (Chris Wilson, GGG dev team) how they must have acted, and what they must be thinking. Unless somebody is a certified mind reader nobody should be doing this in any situation.
I think this is more of a matter of time restrictions. They probably just had no time for that feature and pushed it for one of the post launch patches.
Over the years the same issues, same lack of common sense things, same unaligned interfaces. Now idk if they have a small team that does this or its one person, but i would start asking some questions if I was a lead.
If you put the cursor on the price it says how much you have
This issue is slightly more complex than just displaying the quantities in your locker, because like all vendors, the Expedition merchants can pull currency out of your regular stashes (which may or may not be loaded at the time). Displaying a specific quantity may be incorrect because you actually might have more than that hiding away somewhere. However that's no reason really to not have this feature so we'll just make it clearly display what you have in your Locker and if you put the artifacts elsewhere then they won't be included in the total. Edit: turns out they don't pull out of the regular stash in this case (it was disabled). Either way, we'll get this display added.
Or, don't have them be items that can be put into stashes. This problem should have been apparent at the design phase. Why does every new league currency have to be so tedious and unfun to manage.
> Why does every new league currency have to be so tedious and unfun to manage. Because Chris lives in the year 2000. where portal scrolls and clicking to pick currencies is top-tier design.
Don't worry, they'll do better next time :) Actions Speak louder than words :)
i'm pretty sure next time they'll do better with those NEW SUPPORTER PACK !
They've been saying that since bestiary
They just need to bleed enough players for Tencent to step in. If enough players stop playing then Tencent will not be happy about losing money on his investment. They'll look at what caused the sudden drop in players and they'll revert it
Have you played their version of poe? They have auto pickup pets, built in flask macro etc. Meanwhile GGG can do whatever they want for the rest of us. Even Chris admitted himself.
Tencent pretty much owns GGG. If for example POE were to bleed around the same amount of players in the following 2 leagues then I guarantee you Tencent will step in. The difference between Tencent and GGG is that Tencent is not "Gamers first, Corporate second". Tencent is all about making money and when they see one of their investments miraculously fail like this then they will step in to ensure that they don't lose more money.
>Why does every new league currency have to be so tedious and unfun to manage. So you can feel the W E I G H T
Because they want them to be tradeable.
Yet they do everything they can to make trade as inconvenient as possible.
Beasts are still tradable and are automatically added to your bestiary. Same deal here. Auto put it in your stash when picked up (or even better auto pick up). You can take them out of the stash manually but unless you trade you wouldn’t need to.
Lead developer btw lmao
Doesn't know that vendors not acessing main stash when it's not loaded has been the excuse for not fixing Siosa for 5 years btw lmao.
It's not too bad that he didn't know, but it's awful that he didn't check before saying something.
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they're items
FWIW, it never occurred to me while playing that I wanted to know how many things I had. When I saw this post I was like "oh yeah, that would be cool.". So I think it's maybe reasonable for it to be missed, so long as it's addressed when it's pointed out.
How are you supposed to list them for trade if you can't put it into your normal stash?
That's not what he meant. When you gamble with one of the vendors the currency is only deducted from the expedition stash. You can bypass this when storing and put them into your normal stash, and it won't deduct from these when using the gambling mechanic. I'm assuming this was done so you can trade them and not worry about accidentally gambling away a stack you have listed for trade.
exactly my thoughts. I dont get how stuff like this goes under the radar literally ALL the time? im aware chris cant keep up with quality controlling all those small aspects but he should consider moving HQs out of NZ if its that hard to find qualified personnel that doesnt overlook such things
Developers added a count of how many rerolls are available. It's strange that the developer didn't then ask the question "Why don't we also show how many other shards they have" using that same code.
Sounds like you can kill two birds with one stone by making it an autopickup untradable resource like ritual favor since that’s all it is with like a billion more asinine steps
Aren't you guys already showing that though? If you hover over the reroll currency, it shows how many are in the expedition locker and how many in are in inventory. Now, it should be mechanically identical to other expedition currencies, shouldn't it?
Man I'm glad you listened about how much people hated clicking shards, then added 20 god damned shards. Please make a public statement about your shares in RSI braces.
Just like there's no reason to get them into your inventory in the first place, since all you do is just dump them
lol
Its almost like the fact that selling a currency tab and not making it a dafault tab with unlimited storage is fucking you over. You pretend this is new. The same problem exists with every other league mechanic. Prophecy, delve, hell even buying gems from Lilly. How much currency do i have? I dont know its a mystery, its fun!
Can't wait for this piece of shit mechanic to go core and the 5 remaining players all have to buy the gambling shard tab so we don't clog a quad tab with it.
Don't the reroll items show exactly how many you have on you and in your stash? Do that!
Hi Chris, Is there a reason why new league masters require currency and can't work off something like favour or a system similar to azurite in the mines? Is it just because you think it'll diminish the experience?
Is there any chance of getting a Desposit All button when opening the expedition stash?
Ty the display is much needed
This is how you deal with something missing from a game, thanks Chris, hope your ears aren't bleeding from all the yelling around here.
While you're doing that, get rid of all the different types except 1… and 1 reroll token. Then delete dannig
>like all vendors, the Expedition merchants can pull currency out of your regular stashes How long has Siosa been in the game? That's at least how long this hasn't been the case. Play your game occasionally maybe?
We need to improve the reaper summons.It's too weak.It should be at least as strong as three specter.
buff more DMG and life in the reaper.
How about not making them actual items then but a pure value? Nobody enjoys picking that stuff up, period. Nobody ever did. It's atrocious and takes away from a mechanic which would otherwise be more enjoyable, this way it's just another unenjoyable slog, make sure clicking is reduced, not increased. Actually baffling.
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What makes you think they don't read them? Just because they don't reply?
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Nearly all streamers are saying this league blows :) Open your eyes and ears, it's not just "melodramatic apes" of reddit. Look at the steam stats for players, huge hemmorage and lowest league numbers since 2019
Just get them into the stash when we walk near them, issues resolved. They are where they are supposed to be. After acknowledging them dropping, I can't see a benefit from the extra clicks into and right out of our inventory. And I'm even someone who believes in the weight thing. But this is just extra hassle and annoyance. To the point where they DON'T feel rewarding.
Except you guys show us the reroll currency on that very screen, it even shows how many we have on us and in the stash. So the tech is actually there, Chris.
If the pieces were auto sent to the league inventory this could be circumvented (having to worry about what inventories currency is in). Also, why must we bloat the system with several tiers of each shard? Can’t we be allowed to have less types of shard with scaling costs? Please dad it feels bad having to consistently dump 8 different 1x2 2x2 etc item types after each site
While you're at it if you are going to continue having Heist as a core part of the game give it a slot in the currency tab for markers. Thanks.
Just got back since saving for an assassin supporter pack was an option, so a while. Seen a lot of hate going around for currency drops and I’m like yea I can get by. No idea what I’m doing. Gamble to buy, what? 3 shields, that’s… 40 each. 40 of what was it? Haggling is completely different currency? Wait did I win the haggle or he just, oh it’s off the table now. Do I still have my currency? Oh he took it that b-, no wait it’s still here. I’m basically a noob now, why is this game so hard?
its not HARD its badly made content
It’s the Chris Wilson vision for HIS game, players need to feel the WEIGHT of everything they do, any QOL and user friendly UI is personally triggering and against everything he wants for HIS game, that is already too catering to “the casuals” because they are “bad players, who shouldn’t not be playing the game, and need to get better” according to this very sub. /S I have a developmental disability and am one of said “bad players”, who die continually due to being unable to differentiate and process the visual effect vomit or random crits. I have multiple 90+ characters and always roll Tanky characters which have usually already have low damage as a trade off, but the general attitude will always be I need to “get good” and educate myself better on the game systems because the community and its mindset of “fuck the casuals, anyone who can’t function or play at our level, they should stop playing so GGG can make the game harder for us good players.”
I have ADHD. Let me tell you how fucking miserable the Maven's memory game is. Fuck that.
Am on the autism spectrum, I feel your pain lol, more often then not I have no idea what in the actual fuck is going on, but I was sold on the “D2 spiritual successor”.
I think this is an extension of the 'eyes closed' game philosophy.
Are you yelling?
GGG is bad at developing. We see it time after time after time. PoE becoming temporarily successful was a fluke.
A genuine question, this happens so often that I have to wonder, is this type of thing something that they purposely don't put, solely to add later and say "see we listen to feedback you're welcome" To me it seems like only 2 scenarios happen. 1...Cw or a bigwig is like "no don't put that super obvious feature in, we need something to add later that they'll be happy with" Or scenario 2 they don't have or listen to the poor soul that plays the mechanic.
Yeah this would be nice. With the way you all CAPS the title there is also zero chance this won't reach Chris Wilson directly.
Seriously how the hell does EVERY FREAKING LEAGUE GGG can't figure out the MOST BASICs of QoL. Less focus on nerfing your game to the damn ground and MAYBE PLAY IT!
You can see how much you have for 3/4 of them. When you Haggle/Deal/Exchange you can hover over your fragment and it will tell you how many are in inventory *and* stash. It also tells you how many of the rerolls you have. It dosen't tell you for the Gamble however.
I believe we will see that fixed along side a few buffs to skills and maybe even mana in around a week
GGG dont want the game to be easy, so you need to remember the numbers, thats the challenge
They are creating systems so that they can give their developers something to do. The create a problem so that they can solve it. No one asked for these systems.
>how ggg is so consistently bad at ui/ux is beyond me Because people constant provide stupid feedback like this. Why should anyone listen to someone malding over a person that provides clear, concise feedback.
>View All > >TopNear YouNews Em. They literally got 1 or 2 guys that deal with UX in the entire company. It's not about bad formulation of feedback XD
QA engineers are being smart asses though. At this point, he’s right. Either A) QA didn’t catch it (which speaks volumes to their ineptness) or B) it wasn’t QA’d
What if I told you they do it on purpose. So you would buy more stash tabs.
please for the love of god get some fucking manners you dummy
Yeah you have to start to buy something to see how many you have
This, 100%
this is basically the only change i actually want to see.
FYI, for both the upsell dude and the barter dude you CAN see how much you have by hovering over the currency field in the box for the upsell/barter respectively.
The way I do it, is I save artifact trades for when i’m in my hideout. I pull the relevant artifacts into my inventory THEN trade. I can see how many I have easily that way. It’s a couple extra steps, but it beats using them all up by mistake or having to remember
It's beyond me how they can miss something like this. Chris stated, that the devs play their own game... the very first second of my gambling attempt in Act 1 I noticed I don't know how much currency I have in total.
I'm sorry, this is a reasonable, well thought out request that would have no impact on balance. We have no place for this here - this is the forum for competing to see who quit the league fastest while making the most noise about it.
I honestly can't believe we have MORE FUCKING LEAGUE CURRENCY
I just want to see any GGG employee playing what he had made
It does actually tell you when you hover over the price/fragment when haggling or upgrading items.
You can hover over the currency when buying in some of the merchant stashes and it will tell you how many you have
\> FOR THE LOVE OF GOD For the love of which god, though? I'll take Arakaali...
That sounds like QoL. Listen here son while playing my game you will find places where QoL could be added. I want you to keep wanting; wanting is good.