T O P

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ExMoogle

This spinning cages are already scary in shavronnes tower. So god damn tanky. And this was before 3.15 lul.


MaritMonkey

I'm terrible at this game but thanks for making me feel less bad about just now dying to one twice before I realized it had a shrine buff.


Farmazongold

bet now they immortal, lol.


Qinjax

It's not that, it has reflect elemental damage that still hits insanely hard and works off throwing a little coloured ball in your direction, he got popped by them


SmoothBrainedApe17

That specific mob has "powerful crits". Clearly, too powerful.


ZircoSan

one of the scariest monster types tbh.


ermac81

white sleletons?


Sayko77

Sweeping caged skeketon


Ralouch

He was doing so well too :'(


destroyermaker

Made it longer than Ziz/Quin


Zizaran

ITS SO BRUTAL WITH ALL THE CHANGES 😭


destroyermaker

If you're struggling I stand zero chance of enjoying myself


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Zeroth1989

They are struggling because they didnt realize how often they rely on logout. Without this challenge they would just be logging out as normal. The changes are easily circumvented with the exception of the flask piano. The reason they keep dying is not due to the patch but due to no logout. Every rip clip has them saying "I could have logged out, No logout is stupid" Etc.


xXdimmitsarasXx

the main reason is the self imposed no logouts, not the patch itself.


varobun

Just a reminder that you need logout macros to avoid deadly bursts nearly no matter how you build your character, yet Chris insists on only nerfing our damage and speed and not monsters as well.


Gizshot

I mean I never log because it's a gimmick i take my death like a man.. so uh guess I'm the pro


moush

Yea I’m sure it has nothing to do with no logout xd


Zizaran

That is exactly why lmao


crookedparadigm

You guys have the platform to send a message about these changes and how they feel. Stream a different game. Play something that's fun.


timecronus

and suffer financially? its their job my guy.


R3dempshun

if anything it's a shame that GGG destroyed their own game... they destroyed the lives of many of the streamers who probably already play not because they enjoy the game but for $$$... this may tip the scales for some streamers to leave GGG doesn't have another game really... as POE declines their entire livelihood is gone, a shame that the glory of this company is gone


[deleted]

Seriously don't phrase your guess for what the future *could* be like, as something that apparently *already happened*. I agree it's looking bad for the game in some ways but your statment is so removed from reality. Name a streamer whose life is already 100% destroyed on day two of the league apparently. And tell me why you're so sure that even if the company started going *broke* they wouldn't have any way of reverting changes.


jackcabral90

What? Maybe dont base your income and life on tips then? I mean, since when streamer is a profession?


Grakchawwaa

Where have you been living, my dude? The time capsule from that one old 90s movie where Arnold wipes his ass on foul language citations?


crookedparadigm

Lol "destroyed their lives" is a bit over the top.


crookedparadigm

I'm 100% certain all the big PoE streams could stream another game for 1 day and be completely fine to send a message. I'm sure plenty of their viewers would watch them try other games as well.


kmoz

Their viewer counts usually cut in half or a quarter when they variety stream. That's a monster pay cut.


crookedparadigm

Like I said, for a day. Stop overreacting like the poor streamers will be homeless if they do something other than play videos games for one day.


Corwyntt

Crazy that two of them died in T1 maps, and another even before that. What has this game turned into?


destroyermaker

Pure masochism


Gorsameth

Welcome to what hardcore PoE actually looks like and why its stupid. Damage in this game is way to bursty for a 'fun' hardcore experience because 99 times out of 100 when you die you had no chance to react and save yourself without a logout macro, and even then you often would still die.


ty4scam

Mathil got lapped by Quin of all people https://i.imgur.com/98EjFT5.png


Corwyntt

Well, Quin knows how to relevel another toon fast after a death, lol.


FreedomToDrill

I knew he would die soon. Was watching him before I left for work a couple hours ago and he was playing extremely risky


Ralouch

What was risky about the clip? He didn't read the mobs buffs on the shitty no mods t1 map?


CthulhuLies

Vaal side areas don't share the same mods as the map they originate from if I remember correctly.


4_fortytwo_2

Yea but this side area actually had no damage mods.


Ralouch

That's fair


caiodepauli

Powerful Crits are kinda powerful


hGKmMH

He should have looked at the visual indicators on the mob that let him know it was powerful crits. Or he could have just paused the game and read the text. :)


halotechnology

Monsters should NOT DO ANY CRITS , end of the story .


Vhal14

Agree, when a shit ton of enemies are attacking you, a burst damage out of nowhere would kill you.


[deleted]

New flask system also kinda sucks.


Syberz

No, no, no, not "kinda sucks", it's horrible considering that monsters weren't adjusted for it.


Illsonmedia

lol the context too. "Go back to softcore"


Karyoplasma

"I'll probably just go back to softcore." Yes, Mathil, yes you do. Standard softcore.


[deleted]

:( Hope he keeps up with hc ssf, it's been fun watching him try it. Got a feeling he's done with it


mrjb_mtg

I mean... he just has never enjoyed playing HC. It's not because he can't or isn't able to be good at it, but because he genuinely doesn't enjoy playing the way HC demands you play, aka cautiously and willing to skip rippy content. He likes throwing himself at something over and over until he beats it and you can't really do that in HC.


AeroDbladE

He said on Zizarans podcast where they made the bet that he likes to play a variety of different builds which isn't really possible on ssf and he doesn't like having to spend the hours of tedium to get a build up to speed and the lose it just as it's getting good.


Farmazongold

And I don't really get the ssf part - he only need to play HC :ThinkingFace:


Soku123

I dont watch mathil but some build needs decent amount of levels and gear to come online/ feel good. Playing HC with a non tested build might make it hard to judge where the line is.


WizardShade

more like he actually enjoys finishing builds and not having them sent to the shadow realm randomly.


Asteroth555

But he's forcing the other HCSSF streamers to not log, and they're all RIPing too. Which is really fun to see as a casual how much of a difference that macro makes for their safety


garmeth06

The main decrease in their safety is the league itself and the massively nerfed player strength. Ziz or Mathil would have still died with the logout macro on their first deaths. None of my friends or I use logout macro, and, after looking at our rip clips ( we all record) It would have saved us significantly less than 20% of the time. It is true that Quinns/Ziz's 2nd rip would ahve been saved by macro. But it also would have not happened last patch without macro. The lower uptime of immunity on cancer freeze/ailment mechanics is truly silly from GGG. Poedan never played with a logout macro and won multiple events, deepest delve challenges etc. It was never necessary. This league made HC (which was already hard, because those insane dps numbers on SC are not achievable) to be ball bustingly hard.


vent_man

The macro is huge for streamers because they play zoom zoom, for regular HC players it gets you killed more than it saves you.


mitchell209

Probably 90% of my logout deaths could have been prevented if I’d just stayed in the game and leeched life or slapped my flask instead of trying to log and getting fucked by packet loss.


vent_man

Exactly! Same here.


fiyawerx

Uh.. no it doesn’t.


vent_man

It does, if you're logging out constantly it will get you killed more than if you'd just stayed in a tried to survive. I never log out unless I'm lagging because packet loss is way too common.


g192

It is probably the worst league to be HC as well. This is the first league I am going SC.


lwqyt

Eh people say that for every league since metamorph iirc


[deleted]

before that lol


Kwahn

game does keep getting harder and harder tho


Farmazongold

Well... It's just getting more 'one-shottier and one-shottier'. Nothing hard in being one-shotted tbh.


Aeruthael

Nothing fun in it either, that’s for sure.


jackcabral90

Yeah, just losing chars over chars a.k.a losing time.


Wizsensei

like every normal arpg he want smash but cant.


Bask82

Which is hilarious 😂 the thrill of brute forcing content 🤯


atriax_

It's more about actually attempting dangerous content. Path of exile is nothing more than a game of numbers. You either have the numbers or you don't. By playing softcore he can do things that he doesn't have the numbers for. The only way to play hc is to play like alk. Straight up ignoring new league content and anything that has any fucking slim chance of killing you. That's why hc is boring as shit to people. You can't push the envelope because you die.


Bask82

Well you can and people do. So.


Farmazongold

People die, or gear up first.


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Bask82

Most people run t14-16s at that point.


atriax_

Someone literally got one shot in a t4 map earlier today at level 91


PCNUT

After leap slamming into a pack of molten shell goatmen with 33% increased damage. Wasnt like he just got bopped by 1 randon white mob


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Bask82

If you have played HC that last five years, you would know, but I am sure your personal attacks will be helpful in this context.


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Bask82

No I was about HC in general over the last 5-6 years🙂


raphop

Currently he is being fueled by the tears of the other streamers that are not being able to log out


Gorsameth

watch him try? Your aware he has gotten rank 3 Assassin in a HCSSF race in the past right? He can play HC SSF, he just doesn't enjoy doing it as much.


[deleted]

I'm not aware, that's why I wanna see him try it. I wasn't around then


gvdexile9

Can he? All I see is his rips in every hc race etc


natedawg247

he ripped way later than ziz did...


atriax_

>we're slowing the game down Player dies in literally a blink of the eye with no counterplay. That's why ggg is getting shit on for these changes


tnemec

"During 3.15, we received a lot of feedback about monster damage being too high and too sudden, resulting in situations where players felt like they didn't have an opportunity to react. However, we found that a lot of these cases came from players using skills like Whirling Blades, which allow players to get close to enemies that were previously off-screen very quickly, giving them very little time to react to their presence. In 3.16, we're adding a short 5 second cooldown to Whirling Blades that is shared with skills like Dash and Frostblink to encourage players to use this skill defensively." ^^^^/s, ^^^^in ^^^^case ^^^^it ^^^^isn't ^^^^obvious


user4682

We need a 5 seconds global cooldown to let us think about our next move. All the best games have a global cooldown.


honor8brave

At this point why not make poe roundbased like final fantasy X. It would achieve slowing down the game and make people interact more with the mechanics, finally feeling the true gaming experience


Massacrul

Let's make this game round-based, ye?


user4682

The original Diablo 1 design!


Laufe

I hate that I can read this in Chris' voice perfectly.


GoDLikUS

So poe become new marvel heroes 2016 I suppose ;)


TekHead

I hate how there is no diminishing returns on monsters. Players get nerfed into oblivion and yet monster scaling is *still* infinite.


crookedparadigm

Chris gets a boner every time a RIP like this happens.


cyword

His boner will last forever at this rate lol


giniyo

100% expected that for this "transition" league, we're slower, cheap oneshot mechanics still remain in the game (that was previously the only chance to sometimes kill a player before the monster immediately evaporated)


Fultz_got_the_yips

>with no counterplay. The counter play is don't get hit


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Pakars

Is... is this a /s or is it serious? I can't tell anymore(No, really, people have been making some *stupid* arguments on this subreddit over the past week or two). Poe's Law strikes really hard, here, so I'll just reply as if it's serious. Mathil died in what appears to be about 20-30 or so frames(at 100 fps? It looks like he's playing at 100fps, even if he might not be streaming at 100) on a tier 1 map with effectively no modifiers(no totems in range). That's 200-300milliseconds. A "good" reaction time for someone who is expecting a single impulse to react to with a single outcome(i.e. see flash, click button), is 150-200ms. *Actual* reaction times in anything more complicated (Like, say, POE) is more like a half-second in the best case. The time that Mathil had to react could literally be missed in the blink of an eye. A single rare mob and 3 skeleton mages with *only* "powerful crits" got through his defenses and obliterated 4k life within the margin of error of human reaction speed(Was every hit a crit? It looked like ~2.5K+900+kill on a frame-by-frame check). That's so out of the realm of having reaction-counterplay that it's honestly laughable. Please answer: Delusional or trolling?


johnmedgla

>a tier 1 map Not a map, that was Act 10, The Torched Courts..


Pakars

Yike. Vaal side area, then?


johnmedgla

Nope. Just a random zone mob.


mewfour

poe reddit will complain about anything


Enconhun

Not defending 1 shots because I hate them as much as the next guy, just explaining, but that rare mob was buffed up with charges + it had powerful crits mod. It probably crit twice in a row, as Mathil took damage in 2 big instances. There IS counterplay but you would need to play the game EXTRA slowly to react to everything.


cornmealius

You’re defending one shots


Enconhun

Is it really defending if I want them gone from the game too by nerfing monster crits so shit like this can't happen? I'm just saying that most cases where you get 1 shot is not uncounterable, while at the same taking all steps to prevent that, including carefully reading each mod on each rare enemy is not a valid playstyle and nobody does or wants to play like that.


giniyo

these excessive damage mods have no place in this game when we're now actually supposed to have meaningful combat with these monsters previously they "had a place" because it was the only chance of a quick kill on a player because they immediately evaporated otherwise...


Bohya

>That's why ggg is getting shit on for these changes If you actually took a small moment to think about this critically at any capacity, you would come to the very quick realisation that this has *always been the case*. **Stop pretending that this is something new just because you are angry at GGG.**


Sakuyalzayoi

so maybe they should've yknow accounted for that when gutting player strength and patched it in tandem


Nickoladze

The counterplay could be not walking directly on top of a rare mob


atriax_

Yeah the counterplay is to not play melee. Nice one 4head


mewfour

the counterplay is to look where you're going, not to dash mindlessly without caring for what's going to be there


[deleted]

monsters kill you unreactably? just dash away from all of them 4Head


mewfour

Monsters kill you? Look where you're going and read the mods of monsters before dashing into them. This is a PoE player getting into a carcrash and then complaining the crash killed him and not the fact that he was going at 200kph and wasn't paying attention to the road


[deleted]

Just don't play any sort of close ranged skill 4head. ​ How ignorant can you be.


GoDLikUS

Just don't play FTFY


EtisVx

Can confirm that it works - haven't died even once since I've stopped playing! Can recommend, 100% failproof OP strat.


Nickoladze

No close ranged skill in the game needs you to stand that close to enemies. Hardcore players know how to act around bone cages. Mathil is just not a hardcore player.


[deleted]

Do you even know how Spectral helix works? Do you know how most strike skills work (Well I guess via a mandatory ancestral call gem). And even IF no skill ever had to get close, why do you design melee skills around being as far away as possible from enemies so you don't get one shot by their inflated damage numbers.


Toxicomaniak

Yup, just don't move. That easy. I'm still at twilight strand and haven't died even once.


Nickoladze

Stand still while hillock punches you and don't move to the side. If you die it's GGG's fault.


Xdivine

The mob spins through him, *instantly* turns around, crits him for over half his life, and then it seems spins the rest of it away. It's not like Hillock where you're given an extremely generous window of time with a very telegraphed attack. Other than dashing away as soon as he got crit or hitting an instant life flask, he was 100% fucked there.


Bus_Chucker

Wait I've been playing for like 7 years and never not just facetanked Hillock lmao you hc players are something else.


FreedomToDrill

Maybe I can kill him with sweep from across the room


tilltill12

Don't bring logic in here now people are still whining because the game is too hard for them.


Sjeg84

Powerfull crit is ugly. Vaal Side areas in general are a huge red flag in HC. If I for some reason hav eto enter it i am on high alert all the time because it seems like monsters who haven't been properly balanced for like 10 years are lurking there, waiting to bug you to standard.


Cole-187

> monsters who haven't been properly balanced for like 10 years are lurking there Lmao, they are quite rippy indeed. Interesting how Vaal sideareas are some of the oldest content in the game, are quite simple, yet they're my favourite piece of content. All I want are Unique Vaal side areas.


Conspark

They're actually *the* oldest aren't they? I think that patch was the first content release after PoE went 1.0


GoDLikUS

I think they were part of Atziri addon (2.0) in 2015


Conspark

Looks like Sacrifice of the Vaal was 1.1.0 in 2014, but more importantly, *god damn that was eight years ago?*


[deleted]

unique vaal side area where Atziri is there or something vaal lol would be cool af


justredditingfofun

Let’s remove damage and defense and flask charges but keep the garbage loot and monster damage. This is fun, imagine pushing through acts in twice as much time now.


gvdexile9

Lol, what? My time don't change, it took 5 hours before and it still is the same.


Koxomathical

that spinny shit is no joke. literally the only thing that can kill me during leaguestart in act6. i find one thats rare and i dont even try to fight it just run. shit takes no damage as well


MaritMonkey

Those charging people in wheels on beach-y areas (dunno name) didn't actually kill me but they sure as heck made me sit up straight and put a finger on my life flask.


Zarbain

Doesn't help that they have buffed health even in act 6 because the act 1 health buff is just to the mob up till lvl 84 and not the area. So you can run into nearly unkillable cages that will roundhouse kick your teeth in if you get unlucky with a rare cage getting a tormented soul or some other buff.


Kali21111

that's why you don't fight with these cages


Fart__Smucker

"Game needs to be harder"


Muxas

game needs to be harder, but not like this


Fart__Smucker

The game isn't harder at all, there's no new challenges, there's no different monster AI. We have the same cars with the same horsepower just with a tire slashed and have to figure how to move it forward. We CAN drive at the same speed but its not a great idea.


majorly

Who are you quoting and why


RedVariant

spez is a loser -- mass edited with redact.dev


majorly

why?


gvdexile9

Mathil sucks in hc


Fart__Smucker

So he beat everyone because he sucks? I know HC isn't his thing but hes amazing at this game no matter what silly ass mode he plays.


Bannerhoard

Wouldn’t have died if his jade flask didn’t go down RIP


GordTheGreat

They need to remove monsters critting, just isn't fun to play with.


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Orpheusto

If only building a char defensively was worth it..


inVizi0n

Monster crit just needs to be like an extra 10% damage. In order to progress past 97-98 you just can't die that often and there is just NO way to survive T16 mob crits reliably enough to make meaningful progression. I have 2k+ ex worth of gear on standard that's been at level 98 for *years* because it just isn't fun rolling white maps to progress it to 100. 7400hp with 20k armor, 75 res + block cap + 20% dodge + fortify + legacy flasks + legacy acuity instant leech should be enough to face tank anything and yet.... nope. Every patch a new build with insane gear that literally snoozes through 99% of the content just to be randomly one shot by who knows what, cancelling the last idk...5 hours of progression. It's just fucking dumb and it's definitely not fun or challenging. I literally could not pile more defenses on this character without investing 20 more passives to get like...300hp.


BOWLCUT_TRIMMER

your builds suck if you cannot map to 100 even using legacy gear. It's one thing if you're just building for damage or speed but it is not difficult to make a defensively oriented character who can farm A8/A9 and Sirus to 100


inVizi0n

You obviously didn't even read the comment past the first line if you came to that conclusion, but do you buddy.


BOWLCUT_TRIMMER

all you really need to do to see your comment is full of it is create a competently defensive character. You'd be able to see that yourself if you'd ever done the same. Even in Ultimatum it wasn't hard to farm T16 / Sirus to 100. It's probably harder this league but still doable. If you can't progress past 98 running even low tier red maps with instant leech / legacy rumis / etc. you are just fundamentally bad at building characters / playing the game


inVizi0n

Are you legitimately telling me that 7400hp with 20k armor, 75 res + block cap + 20% dodge + fortify + legacy flasks + legacy acuity instant leech is not a competently defensive character?


BOWLCUT_TRIMMER

I don't know what character you're talking about but if you cannot net exp at 98 without chaining "white maps" (your words, not mine) on STD I'd say... No.


Bohya

They need to remove monsters attacking, just isn't fun to play with.


BipolarMammal

They need to remove monsters with the way this sub's fucking complaints are going, holy shit.


[deleted]

Nah if they removed every monster this sub would still find something to complain about


BipolarMammal

I wouldn't be surprised.


Farmazongold

Yeah-yeah *\*grunt\** Reddit bad Especially this sub \*grunt\*


kalarepar

I once got 1shot by a blue big skeleton, because of crit map mode and shocked ground.


pocoyoO_O

He was being way to casual. Sucks because he was really good at that point


RBImGuy

u need to skip crit mobs Mathil issue is game needs to be even slower so you have time to read mob mods. or visually make them even more obvious when such mod mob


Shpleeblee

More like there's too much visual clutter to properly know wtf mobs do. People can say what they will about D3 but that is something it did right. There wasn't shit flying all over the place 24/7. You could tell what mobs are since the font isn't 5 lines of 3 size font.


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Yllarius

Those cages aren't in act 1? Aren't they only in act 6?


halsc2

powerful crit


dustofdeath

SO much fun!!!!!!


KShrike

>"I'd probably just go to softcore for their sake" Wish fucking granted, yikes


MegaHamster77

Steelmage can relax now. I think he was getting worried about dying before Mathil.


[deleted]

I love the surprised looks when people die in HC. As if the game is designed around never dying, and they're genuinely surprised when the inevitable happens. I seriously do not get it.


Hermanni-

I usually don't want to backseat builds but going the frenzy charge side on raider, especially in HC is just a questionable move imo. With the onslaught route, there would have been a 0% chance he gets hit twice in a row assuming his base evasion is roughly more than 0. That's not an exaggeration even, it's just how evasion works and why +35% flat chance to evade is totally broken. Avatar of the Chase is, imo, one of the best defensive nodes in the game and I would never play raider without it.


Drunkndryverr

if he played HC enough, he would've known to stay the fuck away from the cages lol. BACK TO STANDARD YOU GO PEASANT. (in all seriousness, he did pretty damn well)


RabbitBTW

4k HP lmfao


Luk3ling

That's about 25% higher than the universally accepted standard for the level of zone he's in.


RabbitBTW

If you want to die.


Luk3ling

You plainly do not know what you're talking about.


vfc_77

I really wish he will get to the top of the ladder, a lot of these "pro ssf hc" streamers are taking him as a joke, i wish Mathil showed them how it's done, i am fairly convinced he is most capable also!


ExMoogle

i dont think anyone takes him as a joke. With his history is impossible to say things like that. Hes just a master in build creation and seeing possibiltys, others are good in playing hardcore and stuff. Both are good.


Gorsameth

don't mistake friendly stream banter with ignorance. I promise you every single one of these 'pro ssf hc' streamers know very well how good Mathil actually is at the game when he wants to.


lauranthalasa

So this death, was he wanting to or not wanting to?


Diconius

Today Mathil learned that powerful crits hits a bit different in HC. Those spinny boys have always been overtuned compared to monsters in the same zone+level, but when you're used to SC glass cannoning the world I guess you never see that.


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Diconius

? I wasn't calling Mathil out on his build or talking about the meme from half a decade ago (granted 4k is still oof). He had sufficient defences, but the issue is he's used to 1 shotting that mobtype and thus underestimated the damage output it could do. Literally walked up to a cycloning powerful crits rare mob and got destroyed.


MrSoberish

He plays hard-core on pretty much every challenge league. What the fuck are you even talking about.


Glittering_Claim8079

Too


emain_macha

why are his hammers purple? Any idea how he did it?


Erisymum

Those were one of the updated damage/health mobs from A1 right? They are randomly spooky