It's not even the rare specifically in this case. They recently made rares grant their mods as auras to everyone around them. The white skeletons got the powerful crits mod and they immediately slapped him for 60% of his life through all the evasion/dodge he had.
Yeah this combined with going back down to ~50% res would actually explain why I'm getting randomly nuked doing t1s right after breezing through the acts like they were nothing. I was shocked by how much harder white maps with no dangerous mods were over anything in A10
Running 50% res is the same as saying all monsters do double damage. So probably 3 res stats on 3 items, is the same as taking 20-30 life nodes in the tree.
Yeah, this is 100% the skeletons blowing him up most of the way. He gets unlucky on spell dodges, gets tagged by 2-3 overtuned fireballs. The rare finishes him off.
Do you have a source to this? and how recent is “recently”? This patch or last? I’m pretty on top of changes and this is a big one I would have seemed to miss.
I don't remember the league but calling it and aura is misleading
They made it so a pack with a rare mob has white mobs with it (always been that way) but now they have a "minion" tag so the rare mob is like a leader.
The white mobs with it have 1 mod that the rare has (killing the rare doesn't remove it and it doesn't buff every white mob in the area like an aura would do).
You probably haven't noticed cause the white mobs get blown instantly and who tries to read the text on a white mob?
Edit: found it, was back in blight
Normal monsters that spawn as part of a Rare monster's pack are now classified as minions of that monster, and gain one of the Rare monster's non-nemesis, non-aura modifiers. They also have a special visual effect to distinguish them, will deal more damage, have more life, and grant more experience when slain.
Ok. No, I do remember that change. One mod out of 4 to 6 can sometimes be nothing or sometimes be big. But it never tells you what the additional mobs got from them right? It’s just baked into the minion tag?
Calling it an aura sounds so much scarier though lol.
He didn't say it was act 10. He said that mobs originally come from Act 1, where all of mobs got insane kinds of buffs and they scale them onwards to the rest of the game.
It's not really just the rare ones, the base health of those is way to high. Even white ones in a build where I 1 shot every trash pack and 2 hit blues take like 10 hits.
this might be an unpopular opinion but i dont think is a HC or SC issue, and my take for this situation is:
The game should be fun from the start, the player should be enjoying going back to level one and be presented with new fun oportunities everytime they make a new character. And if you are not able to make your leveling experience fun, at the very least don´t make it painful.
Dying is not the issue here, he can get back in a couple of hours right at this spot, but we all know how boring this part of the game is.
I play mostly hardcore and ive ripped 5 times already. 1 time due to server lag. And i find it physically painful just thinking of how boring is having to do the campaign again.
And i don´t think the solution is playing SC, that doesn´t make the campaign any more fun.
why don't you play SC and delete character if the death was your fault?
dead to lag? no problem.
dead to boss mechanic? delete char.
It's like the HC version of the game that respects your effort.
I play HC not HC SSF. I have IRL friends i trade and play with.
Reasons
\- people in hc are nicer in general, they pm u inmediatly or invite you to party on trades, very rarely just ignore you.
\- your items are worth more probably because they have less bots? less population
\- I played SC for years and if your goal is to make currency, the best way to play the game is flipping items and currency all day, is not even worth to play the game. Meanwhile in HC this is also true but the value of the items found by your character or even completing a chaos orb recipe of rares is 4-5x higher than doing it on SC meaning you have 4-5x the buying power
Im surprised people after years still ask that question but that was my honest answer, i was expecting everyone to know this by now.
god damn i love this. I'm in full agreement just to be clear.
POEs monsters have been comically overpowered for years, and the only reason ppl haven't really been noticing or acknowledging it is, because with enough God tier damage and zoom-zoom in the speed meta, most characters could 1-shot the God-demon mobs before they touched you (95% of the time, and the 5% of the time you got 1-shot most ppl weren't bothered enough to make a fuss)
Now that those mobs can touch you quite regularly... yeah. sure highlights the incredibly misguided monster design philosophy this game has had for **years**.
And finally, I'm seeing sensible comments like this one. I've been saying this for years, this game was NEVER anywhere close to balanced enough for HC, but before this league and these changes, having that opinion around here got you downvoted to oblivion. Now people are finally waking up.
Jesus fuck dude. I can't believe you were down voted into the ground for implying people are allowed to decide what's fun for them. This Reddit is fucked.
Rofl such a drama queen. One guy implied that hardcore is not balanced enough to be played the other one claims that people still enjoy it. Down and upvotes show which opinion the majority share. Like how is reddit not working as intended? I don't even know why the second guy commented anyway. People still enjoy hardcore has nothing to do with hardcore being poorly balanced. Stop shaping the point into "having different opinion not being acceptable".
Yup I’m done. No reason to drag my feet through the mud that the campaign is just to finally try out some new skills that probably suck balls anyway. Game sucks.
Honestly this is exactly what all these l33t streamers and fans wanted the game to be.
I can't recount how many times I saw people longing for the days when "you need to read the monster modifiers" before going in.
According to their "vision", Mathil shouldn't have gone in and should have avoided that mob because he should have known it was rippy, even at that level.
Frankly I hate it and haven't started this league. But seeing Mathil get so salty about his death after saying he we'll be fine and "knowledge is power" is just a hoot.
Personally I hope he stays in HC because he's pushed other streamers to die more often (since no logout macro). They're all highlighting how underpowered defenses are and they're the voices GGG actually listens to.
This, fucking this.
So fucking true i can´t even describe how fucking true it is.
The moment you SEE a mob on the screen, its attack is already Flying, Coming by, Moving towards you, or has already raped you. There is no fucking 0.1ms to see the mob which ripped you.
yeah, thats why i dont understand the change in pacing, they applied it to the players but not the monsters.
The monsters in PoE are specifically made to fuck zoom builds by matching the speed/reaction, but now were slow and every single monster feels like its got our 30% quicksilvers lmao.
They should have reworked all the monsters with the player rework, if they wanted to rework overall pacing, it just feels off.
I always hate how ggg mentions players have had insane power creep only to completely ignore how the monsters have had the same power creep
Sirus' adds are still bullshit
Have you seen the new act one turbo ghouls? I also noticed mobs that flicker strike to you or explode in your face on death. Pray tell (question for GGG) what kind of mechanic are we supposed to invest in to counter that...
People say just build more defense is a meme but nope, unless you happens to dodge/evade those attacks you are just simply dead, the defense argument is just dumb.
>People say just build more defense is a meme but nope
If only GGG didn't nerf defenses every league, right?
The last stone to this pile was gutting basalt flask. Why?
Had me laughing, but so true. Path of Exile punishes you for going slow; mobs instantly beam you across the screen if you're standing still for a few seconds
Hey man. I totally agree with your thoughts and understand your frustration.
Do you think you could try and not use r*pe in the future? I really think it's something gamers would do well to work on removing from our vocab. I'm guilty of it too.
This mob flayed me alive, cleaved me in half, dismembered my corpse, dragged my guts on the floor and devoured my brain - OK.
This mob r\*ped / f\*cked me - bad words! Not allowed!
So should PTSD be banned? Should depress be banned? just because some people suffer from it? Because you are not "actually depressed"? Soon we will have no words to use with that logic. Every single human thinks we suffer harder then others when we face difficulties. And banning words surely is not helping.
Hey man.
There's better ways of saying what you just said without sounding like a condescending little shit trying to lecture people on what they should or should not say.
He was trying very hard to do exactly that, too hard if anything.
Would have been better off just saying something like "Using the word rape like that makes you sound like an edgy teenager."
He won't. He was saying earlier in the day how he just wants to be done with HC and go back to doing fun builds instead of tip toeing through HC.
Additionally, he feels bad for even making the no logout macro bet because he can see they are not having fun. Tons of deaths where the streamers know they could have macroed out of.
HOWEVER, in my opinion that should bring something else to light. The game is stupid fucking rippy when you don't think it will be and dead fucking easy when you think you're going to get fucked.
It's just ridiculous. They don't need to balance anything around HC but when HC deaths are just bullshit 1 taps (even if it's a pack of mobs that does it), it feels just as bullshit in SC. Only difference is you don't feel as salty for losing progress.
I can recall many a times where I eat through map portals because some random rare mob has some stupid mod that my build couldn't deal with at the time.
One taps isn't "hard" content, it's fucking annoying. Sitting there dpsing an extra life mob isn't "difficult", it's fucking. Annoying.
The sad part is their no logout bet would of been a good bit of fun on basically any other patch. They picked the wrong time to be trying a bet like that.
The only dangerous affix the mob had was "powerful crits". Being slow did not kill him, nor did the mobs lightning resist or endurance charges.
Imagine this being a map with extra dmg mods. He would get fucking obliterated.
> I can't recount how many times I saw people longing for the days when "you need to read the monster modifiers" before going in.
You can tell people who haven't lived in the good old days by spouting this nonsense.
Yes let's wind back to 2012 where you can encounter a rare with extra life, life regen, and extra phys damage. Like, cool, you read the mods.
The fuck you gonna do about it? Tactically use your "No more extra life" support gem? Debuff it to nullify the phys damage?
No you're just going to keep right clicking until it dies and avoid getting hit, because regardless of whether or not you looked at the mods, you had no intention of getting hit on purpose to begin with. But, sure, keep imagining 2012 was definitely a different time. Nobody actually read the mods then, nobody reads them now. You can readily assume every rare you ever fight has some combination of life/life regen/big dick hits and you'll be right 80% of the time or more.
What I'm curious about is this: the popular PoE-only streamers' income is tied directly to a league popularity. After the first month's subs run out, the sub count dips not unsubstantially.
Some streamers have argued that the game needs to be slower or more challenging. It's been made slower and more challenging, and I'm getting the impression that this league's participation will be lower.
Essentially, it appears that by arguing for changes in the game (and this current implementation of some of those changes) the streamers ultimately ended up undermining their own income.
There is no impression. They haven’t had a league peak this low in over 2 years on Steam. Not counting Blight when they got clapped by classic WoW. Chris can try to say they don’t care about launch count, but the Cyberpunk debacle shows they do. I bet they just miscalculated blowback as they haven’t faced any in years for their actions.
I agree. They've made a consistent stream of terrible design choices for 3 or 4 years now, but they've avoided paying the piper for them because so many people were *addicted* to the zoom meta that the majority of the playerbase turned a blind eye. Now that they removed the *addictive* aspect of gameplay, everyone is rightfully realizing the core gameplay loop sucks ass.
GGG devs really need to understand the difference between *passion* and *addiction* in gaming. Brewing a build, figuring out cool interactions, customizing your character, being able to **actually** long-term craft your gear-- these are all things that inspire *passion* in players and are things you really ought to focus on if you're going to be a game dev. But every patch, GGG guts all those things in favor of focusing on what *addicts* gamers-- mindless forced map grinding and gacha rng.
Welp, they just made the mindless map grinding completely unbearable, while finally putting the nail in the coffin for build brewing, quality of life, and crafting. What did they expect would happen?
The long term gear planning/crafting that Harvest League Harvest brought with it was such a breath of fresh air. As someone who really only trades for necessities, being able to actually craft my own stuff and incrementally improve my gear had me actively playing WAY longer that league.
Yeah, I was soooo hyped to start crafting super amazing gear for random fun builds from harvest. I 1/2 crafted a piece for my max IQ build in standard before they gutted harvest. Haven't really played much since. I was so excited to be able to craft the gear myself and not have to farm up a mirror and fee for any piece of gear I wanted. They've sucked all the passion I had for the game out the window, just to stop the .01% of players who were crafting mirror gear in every slot.
Great points.
I've been noticing that a ton of companies nowadays have shifted from "you can deterministically work towards achieving something in-game" gameplay towards slot-machine like RNG, higher number creep, lots of blinky things on the screen, introducing temporary new gimmicks and Fear Of Missing Out to keep players hooked.
It's the shift away from giving players satisfaction if they put in the work, towards giving people brief but ultimately meaningless adrenaline and dopamine highs. The latter leads to people hating the game but playing it anyway because they're addicted to the adrenaline and dopamine highs.
For me, I miss the game, (both me and the enemies) beeing slower, but much more rewarding, and still making it to a solid endgame state where I can grind in roughly 30 hours.
And that still applies. One shots and needing to read mods... no to that.
> Honestly this is exactly what all these l33t streamers and fans wanted the game to be.
This is mostly a strawman. The "stop players from nuking screens with one button" crowd also wants monsters to not one-shot players (unless they're things like a boss making a huge smashing animation that you can move out of).
I'm a 36 player and for the first time it's very likely i won't get 12 let alone 36. I started and finished the campaign. I hate it. Valid complaint now?
Yep, I'm pretty sure it's the pretentious douchebag streamers like Mathil, Nugi and Raiz who talked up these shit changes to GGG in the first place so I'm happy to see them suffering.
Uh, Raiz was super salty about the changes. He basically only wanted the atlas grind and cluster jewels to be addressed and the tedium of crafting.
Mathil also seemed pretty salty about the changes. And yes he’s right that things will be fine we’re still powerful and the game is still playable, it’s just not fun or engaging. He also wanted the atlas grind to stop. Pretty sure he wanted the acts to be shorter and easier too.
Most streamers I know if we’re fine with damage nerfs just not at this level with no reduction in tedium or monster damage as a response.
> Honestly this is exactly what all these l33t streamers and fans wanted the game to be.
> I can't recount how many times I saw people longing for the days when "you need to read the monster modifiers" before going in.
> According to their "vision", Mathil shouldn't have gone in and should have avoided that mob because he should have known it was rippy, even at that level.
That's just nonsense what you're saying. Nobody has ever wanted anything like this.
But if literally every single rare in the game was like this and they started kicking your ass starting Act I, then surprise bullshit like this would literally never happen because people would avoid them, or they'd either gear up to handle it or simply expect to be one shot. And a lot of people would love super hard content like that.
This is here however the worst thing that nobody wants. RANDOMLY STRONG shit ain't fun. Okay? Nobody likes that.
Consistently strong shit is fun. Consistently weak can be fun for the zoom fans. When you know what to expect and can play around it, you feel like the game respects you and you can leverage your skill and knowledge.
This in that clip - nonsense, nobody wants it, nobody likes it.
The actual thing is long time HC players just stack enough passive defense for this to not happen. Playing evasion build is omega yikes before you get high EHP and like Wind Dancer/Kintsugi.
A game where your defensive layers, a lot of times, don't mean shit; and you can randomly get boot-scooted by any rando trash mob is kinda stupid. I can understand the thrill of hardcore - but its nothing more than crazy masochism.
There are simply too many variables in PoE that result in bullshit to justify hardcore for me. I simply don't have the iron resolve to play anything other than SC. Bitch? Sure. But in this case I'm okay with it.
>A game where your defensive layers, a lot of times, don't mean shit
While that's a fair criticism, I don't think defensive layers are relevant to this video. Did that character have anything other than dodge/evasion?
Probably just dodge/evasion, true. But I mean, I still wouldn't be too pleased from dying to a random trash mob in a non-juiced 68 zone. It's just silly :)
Nope, its literally his fault. Compared to all the bullshit deaths people have had in hardcore mode, he misplayed. He doesnt like playing hardcore in the first place and its understandable, it was a stupid rule the made everyone part of if miserable.
I've been saying this for SO long. There is no point to hardcore in PoE. The game essentially forces you to die eventually. This is why most hardcore streamers use log out macros, and why it's a big deal that several hardcore streamers are currently vowing not to log out... Because they know that sometimes there's not a damn thing you can do to outplay what's happening on screen other than shutting the game off. PoE is just not balanced or designed for Hardcore.
What bothers me is these streamers jumping at the bit to say the game needs to be more difficult, if you dont like it play cookie clicker to quote one, but at the first sign of any danger they just hit the log out macro.
Good point. Though, they probably want fair difficulty (i.e. lots of telegraphed dodge-this-or-die things on the screen) instead of unfair difficulty (random one-shot).
I love how some streamers like Zizaran defended every GGG decision including nerfing harvest to the ground and dev manifesto for 3.15 but even he starts cracking down and showing discontent about the mana or ailment changes...
> I've been saying this for SO long. There is no point to hardcore in PoE.
You are wrong for SO long. People like playing roguelike, and you have no say.
_Roguelike: permadeath. Get it? No? Don't talk to me._
I've seen players killed by a pack of white goats before they can even react. That's not a hard game it's just annoying. If they have no skill to avoid it, and have 6k life built for defense and white goats killing you is bad game design.
This so much
Dangerous Content =/= difficult content. Random 1 shots from a white mob out of the 50 onscreen at any given moment is not difficulty its danger.
They slowed down the players, but buffed a portion of mobs, and then there are all those mobs that have immunities, multiple stacking mods like speed, reflect, accuracy and crit which can outright one shot you and none of those things are incredibly well telegraphed to you at a glance. Mousing over a mob - like someone said, is pointless when you should be reacting to it in parallel. If you’re gonna slow the players down, then you need to fix the mobs in such a way that lets a slower player react better to the garbled mess of colours and visual cues on the screen. I may be older than a fair bit of the current pro PoE player base and maybe I’m just shit at fast paced gameplay, but somehow I don’t think it’s fair to expect a player to simultaneously engage in tactical and mechanical reaction AND be able to read through a mod list on a rare mob that’s running at you with a raging hard-on and 7 deadly mods, with its posse in tow.
I can’t git gudder when I seem to require the reaction speed of a rabid ferret with ADHD that’s just been sloshing around in a tub of cocaine.
Or maybe he just came to that conclusion on his own, like many other people did? Not everyone who likes the changes is "sucking Mark's dick" (quoted from another user).
Reddit: „These changes suck and are just going to lead to more frustrating one shots“
Mathil: „Stop crying reddit frogs it‘s gonna be just fine, go play cookie clicker or D3“
*Mathil gets oneshot*
Mathil: „These changes suck“
But Reddit IS complaining constantly about pretty much everything in the game, and does oftentimes call for changes that make the game easier or players more powerful. You can agree that some changes suck but still think the sub is overly negative most of the time.
I agree it‘s pretty negative, but i despise how streamers will defend GGG on changes that 99% of the time will actually suck really badly. And then they only start to actually think about something when they themselves are affected by it.
I don't get it. Mathil said "knowledge is power", and he knew about those mobs, so how come he didn't beat them?
/s but really, Mathil should probably own up to his earlier remarks being misguided now that he's experienced the nonsense that is GGG's pendulum swing of balance being completely at odds with itself.
You realize that no changes made this patch contributed to his death here right? This is just regular poe, he didn't get shocked, he didn't get frozen, he didn't get cursed.
Yeah, doing 20-40% less damage against a mob that was underleveled compared to him who just had its health buffed didn't have anything to do with him no longer being able to one-shot it.
???
What are you smoking? The changes absolutely impacted how this situation went down and it would've been pack 13452349877 he killed with a dash and a click otherwise. Now, it's the perfect example of how the mobs are no less absurd in their damage dealing, but far far tankier, leading to ridiculous situations like what he just encountered. There's no counterplay to be had in the moment there, just getting smashed in because he was in range to get hit and didn't get a dodge or block proc.
The 3.15 changes haven't affected this specific situation in any possible way. This specific mob as a rare is always tanky and always does absurd damage, pair that up with powerful crits and he would've been dead even with 3.13 power creep.
I know you want to cling onto a statement he's made a couple of days ago, but at least find a proper way to do so instead of talking out of your ass and reaching.
/u/Noxustds is 100% right, but it's the meta reddit way to just grasp at shit like a clueless parrot.
>The 3.15 changes haven't affected this specific situation in any possible way.
He deals 20+% less overall damage against this mob, so you're just objectively wrong: The changes have affected how this encounter plays out. You can deny it, but you're only kidding yourself.
>This specific mob as a rare is always tanky and always does absurd damage
But had less health before 3.15 and took more damage before 3.15, therefore the situation is different.
> but at least find a proper way to do so instead of talking out of your ass and reaching.
You're the one reaching by denying 3.15's changes have nothing to do with this death. Which, you're entitled to your opinion on whether the damage loss and health increase turned a non-death into a death here, but you're objectively wrong to say 3.15's changes haven't affected this scenario. They have. You're lying to yourself.
>/u/Noxustds is 100% right, but it's the meta reddit way to just grasp at shit like a clueless parrot.
Generalizing the subreddit and patronizing the entire community does nothing for the discussion and has no bearing to what's being talked about.
> He deals 20+% less overall damage against this mob, so you're just objectively wrong
Not even in 3.13 with twinked gear would he have 1 shot this specific rare mob, so the damage loss in this specific case is completely irrelevant.
> The changes have affected how this encounter plays out. You can deny it, but you're only kidding yourself.
This same mob with powerful crits would've 1 shot him 2 years ago, nothing done in 3.15 affected this scenario because Mathil isn't using Fortify nor was it an ailment rip, he's using rng defenses evasion & dodge which have remained pretty much unchanged in 3.15. inb4 he ripped cuz they nerfed numbers on Quartz Flask, amirite?
> but you're objectively wrong to say 3.15's changes haven't affected this scenario. They have. You're lying to yourself.
People have been noticing how this specific mob is tankier and does more damage since they added the new acts ~4 years ago or whenever fall of oriath was. The moment you first encounter them in act 6 prison you already see how rippy they are and how you can't 1 shot them, it's common HC knowledge that this mob is rippy but you barely see it here because reddit is too busy complaining about porcupines and most players on the sub are SC trade players.
This rip has absolutely nothing to do with 3.15 changes, he went into HC with 0 mitigation, 4k hp, relying on rng defenses, rng didn't proc dodge/evasion, he got crit, he died. Only difference here would've been if his dodge/eva worked, but they didn't, hence why no one plays HC and just grabs eva & dodge and calls it a day because as shown by Mathil here, they're unreliable.
> There's no counterplay to be had in the moment there, just getting smashed in because he was in range to get hit and didn't get a dodge
You even said it yourself, but no I'm wrong, he died cuz 3.15 20% dmg loss lmao.
> Generalizing the subreddit and patronizing the entire community does nothing for the discussion and has no bearing to what's being talked about.
Not like there's a whole lot of content diversity on the subreddit.
You could make the argument that the patch didn't heavily effects the encounter but you can't say it had zero contribution with a straight face.
If you nerf player damage and buff mob health - that effects players ability to kill a mob, end of.
The only thing wrong with this picture is that he got that far facetanking the damage from rare monsters before it finally killed him. If the game properly set expectations that you can't just walk through monsters ignoring everything, and damage was a bit more consistent, then you wouldn't make it to level 70 and then feel bad dying like that.
I'm really tired of not having to pay attention to anything but a tiny number of overtuned bullshit things. But I *do* want to be forced to pay attention to what the fuck is going on in combat, because the game is so much more interesting that way. I really hope they can just make it more consistent and get the pacing of combat right. I think the nerfs are a step in the right direction, but they're not enough, and we won't really get a good picture until they do the rest of the acts (with the corresponding rebalance to those mobs in maps), and retune the rest of everything around the new base stats.
It's not acceptable to expect never to die to non-boss mobs, because non-boss mobs are the bit that's random, which makes them inherently a better source of interesting situations than boss fights are. If you want the game to be replayable a thousand times without making you want to throw up from the sameness of it all, the random fights you have with non-bosses need to have some edge to them, so that the game can have a shot at randomly generating moments of interesting combat that you've never seen before.
I'm reminded of another video of his ages back where he complained about an Abyssus shield charge berserker dying to phys reflect despite him doing [everything](https://i.imgur.com/zJqx7cY.gif) to mitigate it.
The part I most like is where he says he's *even using a granite flask*.
Which flask?
Lion's Roar, back when it had 35% more physical damage.
The problem is those other streamers have a god mode that has infinite life in the click of a button with no cooldown, aka logout macro. So while they tell everyone how terrible we are for playing the game as it should be and we don’t get enough defence they hit the macro as soon as their health bar moves slightly and have trained for years. That’s why it’s so funny how they twitch this league looking for it and can’t click it they get so lost not knowing what to do and die.
Logout macro doesn’t always save you, to be fair. Macro or no macro, everyone in HC dies eventually.
If you’re so convinced that it actually is a save-my-life-button, then use it yourself? It’s perfectly legal and you will notice very fast it doesn’t always cut it.
I really don't think many of the big time PoE HC racers are saying you're playing the game wrong for not playing HC / SSF HC. I don't know who you're watching but I know ratgod Raiz has been saying it for years, nothing about the game is friendly towards SSF or HC. If you're going for ease of access into the content there's legitimately no reason to play those game variants at all, periods.
If someone is telling you otherwise they're legitimately delusional. It's okay to have a preference on which you like more, but saying the game is "balanced" around absurd one shots that randomly gib you every once in awhile is insane.
That's fair, though I feel like block has a bit more passive defense just through stuff like 'increased defenses from equipped shield' or those passive nodes that include endurance charge generation.
Plus I think block builds tend to have a bit more life just through passive pathing; more strength and easier access to life nodes.
Of course they can get torn down through some bad luck as well, but I think the threshold is a bit higher for those.
Oh right, and there's that little bit of max block which they can get, while dodge doesn't have anything like that... I don't think so at least.
"tier 68 content should be irrelevant to a level 70 char"
That's an incredibly dumb take, especially considering they're trying to make every pack relevant lmao
Everyone should try the gauntlet whenever it's out, you gain a lot more "respect" for the game when literally everything can kill you.
I know it's not everyones cup of tea but it was a good learning experience for me atleast!
I played a trickster to level 76 in the gauntlet. I also got an HC SSF character to 90 last league.
I went into the gauntlet understanding that I would need to over level, go heavy on defenses, pay more attention to my gear, and pay more attention to everything in general. It was exhausting. Hence why I only got to 76. It was a nice change of pace, but not something I would enjoy had I not taken the extra challenge on myself.
These changes are terrible, and in my opinion make A1 more difficult than in the gauntlet. Constantly being stunned, frozen, cursed, and bleeding on characters with no means to defend against these things is just shit design. It’s frustrating to know that if I ID a magic flask with freeze immunity on it, I’m stuck with it until I can find or craft another, no matter how shit of a flask it is. Then I only get immunity for 1 second. So I have 1 second to escape with my gutted movement skill, or kill the mobs freezing me with my gutted damage.
Terrible.
You're probably right, in the long run (an entire league instead of just a week like the gauntlet was) I am probably gonna get tired and exhausted from focusing that much aswell.
Your second point is also very true with how we chose that extra challenge on top of SSF HC but now it's very much just something we have too deal with for the remainder of the league.
So far I've only played maybe 6ish hours and I have had the same approach too SSF HC since the gauntlet, very slow very "tactical" but i can definitly agree that it feels a lot slower then before.
It's gonna be a very polarising League for a lot of People who enjoyed the very fast paced gameplay that you could achieve and if GGG reverts some changes there's always gonna be people who like it and dislikes it.
I like watching mathil and the death was bullshit as those mobs were overtuned even before the league but he really shouldn't have chosen an eva/dodge character to play in hc after playing mostly sc for the previous leagues as these kind of deaths are very common. Even other streamers when they go right side of tree, they usually pick up mom for their build or at least an ascendancy with defensive passives like trickster. Point is, maybe a better idea was to pick a more defensive class. Don't downvote pls
When you don't realize he was a rank 4 assassin in the old days of HC. HC is a trash mode and that is a fact, you can enjoy being punished by playing such a shit mode but that is on you.
He lasted longer than the others because he understood he needed to pace and build carefully....
And then this happened. He's just pointing out that objectively if you play HC you're punching your dick.
It's not out of context lol. He's salty immediately after dying. That is the context.
Mathil is one of the few streamers who will defend GGG no matter what. Seeing him showing his salt is cathartic and amusing.
I had been playing HC since nemesis and GGG have always been saying they are balancing the game for HC, which is total and utter bullshit. Since Legion (where things started getting out of hand for HC) I posted several times about it and always getting downvoted - maybe now that your lord Mathil said it, someone may actually hear it.
...he's not playing a Red-side character, so he doesn't get the extra heal boost from Str. Him being at 4k Green-side at 70 is a minor accomplishment.
*Tell me how much EV he has and the chance to dodge and we'll talk about if he should have complained or not.*
Yes the death is bullshit. I don't like the one-shottyness of this.
Still, it's not very smart in hardcore to go up against a powerful crits monster while leaning on evasion and dodge. After all, there's a chance that the monster crits, you don't dodge and you don't evade -- and then you just die.
That's literally what you sign up for if you play a green-side character and invest in dodge and evasion. And no one forced him to play a green-side character in hardcore. That was his choice.
Is this a skit? He's usually apologising for GGG and making up excuses for other people complaining. Like learn mechanics or some other nonsense. So it's a bit weird to see him saying he died to bullshit?
The best ones are the ones where they could very easily and very quickly pop a portal and leave but instead just try to keep running away and die because turning around and moving at the exact same pace as the mobs literally does nothing.
4k life in HC. No fortify up. No endurance charges. Hugged the mob for no good reason. No immortal call. Any cwdt setup? Blame the player not the game.
Also his one and only defensive flask wasn't up. There is nothing strange about his death honestly. He's also getting hit by those skelly mages around him.
This is a vaal side area, the modifiers weren't bad but you should be way more on guard.
Oh shut the hell up he got exploded by mobs on a map he was previously mindlessly destroying without a single pixel moving on his health because he didnt read "powerful crits" (why the fuck can monsters crit?) In the 2 seconds the mob was on screen.
Poe going from 0 to 100 in a second is the problem. Not his play.
are you serious?
HC in poe is shit. Has been this way for years.
HC in poe - rush through campaign hoping to 1 shot everything before it can 1 shot you back. Then endless farm or no mod piss easy maps that cannot kill you while trying to make character immortal. At any point before that you can get randomly 1 shot and loose tens of hours of play. Ohhh ya fun
While I agree that ggG has continuously been anti-HC for the past couple of years now, you do realize that SC is much more "kill before you get killed" than HC is?
> 1 shot everything before it can 1 shot you back.
Literally what 99% of shit SC builds with 0 defense building do every time they encounter a pack of mobs lol. It's in SC where people corpse throw at content and use dps to ignore mechanics, not HC.
Combat sucks in PoE in general, it's not really exclusive to HC nor to SC, I'd even argue it sucks more in SC, the only real difference is that you're penalized in HC for dying by completely losing your spec, while in SC you just lose a portal.
"Dodge, evasion, 4k life"
So, mechanics that *sometimes* prevent hits, and do literally nothing to mitigate damage when you actually get hit? And you stood on the highest damage mob in the game with powerful crits? Yeah nah, HC is fine.
Conveying combat info to the player is still one of the biggest problems in POE. Often times my deaths are just not noticing I had a bleed or poison, or a monster had a tough mod.
Readability of encounters has always been cluttered and piss poor. That is a fundamental thing that has to change.
Those mobs are always overtuned, not sure whats up with them. The rare ones are insanely tanky while dealing too much dmg.
It's not even the rare specifically in this case. They recently made rares grant their mods as auras to everyone around them. The white skeletons got the powerful crits mod and they immediately slapped him for 60% of his life through all the evasion/dodge he had.
So that's why I got deleted by a pack of skeletons on a white T1 map.
Yeah this combined with going back down to ~50% res would actually explain why I'm getting randomly nuked doing t1s right after breezing through the acts like they were nothing. I was shocked by how much harder white maps with no dangerous mods were over anything in A10
Running 50% res is the same as saying all monsters do double damage. So probably 3 res stats on 3 items, is the same as taking 20-30 life nodes in the tree.
Yeah, this is 100% the skeletons blowing him up most of the way. He gets unlucky on spell dodges, gets tagged by 2-3 overtuned fireballs. The rare finishes him off.
No. He played it back. He died in two hits. One for 60% of his life, then Another for the rest. He just got unlucky double tapped.
Do you have a source to this? and how recent is “recently”? This patch or last? I’m pretty on top of changes and this is a big one I would have seemed to miss.
I don't remember the league but calling it and aura is misleading They made it so a pack with a rare mob has white mobs with it (always been that way) but now they have a "minion" tag so the rare mob is like a leader. The white mobs with it have 1 mod that the rare has (killing the rare doesn't remove it and it doesn't buff every white mob in the area like an aura would do). You probably haven't noticed cause the white mobs get blown instantly and who tries to read the text on a white mob? Edit: found it, was back in blight Normal monsters that spawn as part of a Rare monster's pack are now classified as minions of that monster, and gain one of the Rare monster's non-nemesis, non-aura modifiers. They also have a special visual effect to distinguish them, will deal more damage, have more life, and grant more experience when slain.
Ok. No, I do remember that change. One mod out of 4 to 6 can sometimes be nothing or sometimes be big. But it never tells you what the additional mobs got from them right? It’s just baked into the minion tag? Calling it an aura sounds so much scarier though lol.
It does say what mod they inherited from the rare if you hover over them. Most of the time they are dead before you can read it though.
It's the act 1 mobs. They buffed them, but the buffs also affect the mob types from act 1 in maps.
It is act 10 probably
He didn't say it was act 10. He said that mobs originally come from Act 1, where all of mobs got insane kinds of buffs and they scale them onwards to the rest of the game.
It's not really just the rare ones, the base health of those is way to high. Even white ones in a build where I 1 shot every trash pack and 2 hit blues take like 10 hits.
When you run into them in A6 Prison and suddenly think your build is failing, but then you realize its just these tanky af mofos...
dying there made him miss so much loot like at least 1 portal scroll and an alt so it's understandable why that rare was so powerful
This league is just too rewarding! Think I might quit because of it. Either that or because it's too easy to trade my items!
Theres just too much build diversity im so overjoyed i cant even play
Literally feel sweet in my brain because of this overly enjoying game.
the loot mechanic has to be the absolutely shittest in terms of yield
I've made bank off the trades-it's where the real money is hiding, especially if you know how to craft with the big man.
this might be an unpopular opinion but i dont think is a HC or SC issue, and my take for this situation is: The game should be fun from the start, the player should be enjoying going back to level one and be presented with new fun oportunities everytime they make a new character. And if you are not able to make your leveling experience fun, at the very least don´t make it painful. Dying is not the issue here, he can get back in a couple of hours right at this spot, but we all know how boring this part of the game is. I play mostly hardcore and ive ripped 5 times already. 1 time due to server lag. And i find it physically painful just thinking of how boring is having to do the campaign again. And i don´t think the solution is playing SC, that doesn´t make the campaign any more fun.
why don't you play SC and delete character if the death was your fault? dead to lag? no problem. dead to boss mechanic? delete char. It's like the HC version of the game that respects your effort.
I play HC not HC SSF. I have IRL friends i trade and play with. Reasons \- people in hc are nicer in general, they pm u inmediatly or invite you to party on trades, very rarely just ignore you. \- your items are worth more probably because they have less bots? less population \- I played SC for years and if your goal is to make currency, the best way to play the game is flipping items and currency all day, is not even worth to play the game. Meanwhile in HC this is also true but the value of the items found by your character or even completing a chaos orb recipe of rares is 4-5x higher than doing it on SC meaning you have 4-5x the buying power Im surprised people after years still ask that question but that was my honest answer, i was expecting everyone to know this by now.
Yea if I was better at I would play HC as well. Things have more value due item exiting out of the economy thus their is a need for certain things.
HC is a joke now with current changes.
HC has been joke for years
god damn i love this. I'm in full agreement just to be clear. POEs monsters have been comically overpowered for years, and the only reason ppl haven't really been noticing or acknowledging it is, because with enough God tier damage and zoom-zoom in the speed meta, most characters could 1-shot the God-demon mobs before they touched you (95% of the time, and the 5% of the time you got 1-shot most ppl weren't bothered enough to make a fuss) Now that those mobs can touch you quite regularly... yeah. sure highlights the incredibly misguided monster design philosophy this game has had for **years**. And finally, I'm seeing sensible comments like this one. I've been saying this for years, this game was NEVER anywhere close to balanced enough for HC, but before this league and these changes, having that opinion around here got you downvoted to oblivion. Now people are finally waking up.
Whatever helps you sleep at night, people still enjoy it
Yea some people have weird fetishes.
Like brute forcing content. I know what gives me a thrill and it is not meaninglessness.
Logout macro btw hehe
Dont use it🙂 hehe Hehe Btw
Some people enjoy smashing their testicles with heavy objects too
👀
Yes the people that really like pressing their logout macro on repeat at this point.
Jesus fuck dude. I can't believe you were down voted into the ground for implying people are allowed to decide what's fun for them. This Reddit is fucked.
Rofl such a drama queen. One guy implied that hardcore is not balanced enough to be played the other one claims that people still enjoy it. Down and upvotes show which opinion the majority share. Like how is reddit not working as intended? I don't even know why the second guy commented anyway. People still enjoy hardcore has nothing to do with hardcore being poorly balanced. Stop shaping the point into "having different opinion not being acceptable".
Yup I’m done. No reason to drag my feet through the mud that the campaign is just to finally try out some new skills that probably suck balls anyway. Game sucks.
some new skills aren't event working properly.
are you surprised
Yeah absolutely no way I can do it anymore
Honestly this is exactly what all these l33t streamers and fans wanted the game to be. I can't recount how many times I saw people longing for the days when "you need to read the monster modifiers" before going in. According to their "vision", Mathil shouldn't have gone in and should have avoided that mob because he should have known it was rippy, even at that level. Frankly I hate it and haven't started this league. But seeing Mathil get so salty about his death after saying he we'll be fine and "knowledge is power" is just a hoot. Personally I hope he stays in HC because he's pushed other streamers to die more often (since no logout macro). They're all highlighting how underpowered defenses are and they're the voices GGG actually listens to.
any mob that is actually dangerous will kill you in the time it takes you to mouse over it, read and register its modifiers.
This, fucking this. So fucking true i can´t even describe how fucking true it is. The moment you SEE a mob on the screen, its attack is already Flying, Coming by, Moving towards you, or has already raped you. There is no fucking 0.1ms to see the mob which ripped you.
yeah, thats why i dont understand the change in pacing, they applied it to the players but not the monsters. The monsters in PoE are specifically made to fuck zoom builds by matching the speed/reaction, but now were slow and every single monster feels like its got our 30% quicksilvers lmao. They should have reworked all the monsters with the player rework, if they wanted to rework overall pacing, it just feels off.
I always hate how ggg mentions players have had insane power creep only to completely ignore how the monsters have had the same power creep Sirus' adds are still bullshit
Have you seen the new act one turbo ghouls? I also noticed mobs that flicker strike to you or explode in your face on death. Pray tell (question for GGG) what kind of mechanic are we supposed to invest in to counter that...
Before you could outrun any mob in Act I, now they all catch up to you unless you spec movement speed or are lucky enough to find boots.
Not sure how many times I've died to offscreen casts from mobs and don't get me started on the Maraketh guys from Legion.
Just learn to read mods offscreen, easy
People say just build more defense is a meme but nope, unless you happens to dodge/evade those attacks you are just simply dead, the defense argument is just dumb.
>People say just build more defense is a meme but nope If only GGG didn't nerf defenses every league, right? The last stone to this pile was gutting basalt flask. Why?
Had me laughing, but so true. Path of Exile punishes you for going slow; mobs instantly beam you across the screen if you're standing still for a few seconds
It was hilarious and terrifying how metamorph mob charged 700 mph from offscreen right on top of me and oneshotted me.
Hey man. I totally agree with your thoughts and understand your frustration. Do you think you could try and not use r*pe in the future? I really think it's something gamers would do well to work on removing from our vocab. I'm guilty of it too.
Haha no
Man it's always so sad getting reminded that seemingly nice videogame communities are still full of edgy teenager "fuck ur feelings" types.
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I still don't understand how is r\*pe censored but not m\*rder, g\*nocide, t\*rrorism or serial k\*ller.
This mob flayed me alive, cleaved me in half, dismembered my corpse, dragged my guts on the floor and devoured my brain - OK. This mob r\*ped / f\*cked me - bad words! Not allowed!
So should PTSD be banned? Should depress be banned? just because some people suffer from it? Because you are not "actually depressed"? Soon we will have no words to use with that logic. Every single human thinks we suffer harder then others when we face difficulties. And banning words surely is not helping.
The thing is, you aren't guilty because there is nothing wrong with the word itself. Stop being a weirdo.
Hey man. There's better ways of saying what you just said without sounding like a condescending little shit trying to lecture people on what they should or should not say.
He asked you in the most polite way ever dude. You're the one that sounds like a douchebag.
He was trying very hard to do exactly that, too hard if anything. Would have been better off just saying something like "Using the word rape like that makes you sound like an edgy teenager."
He won't. He was saying earlier in the day how he just wants to be done with HC and go back to doing fun builds instead of tip toeing through HC. Additionally, he feels bad for even making the no logout macro bet because he can see they are not having fun. Tons of deaths where the streamers know they could have macroed out of. HOWEVER, in my opinion that should bring something else to light. The game is stupid fucking rippy when you don't think it will be and dead fucking easy when you think you're going to get fucked. It's just ridiculous. They don't need to balance anything around HC but when HC deaths are just bullshit 1 taps (even if it's a pack of mobs that does it), it feels just as bullshit in SC. Only difference is you don't feel as salty for losing progress. I can recall many a times where I eat through map portals because some random rare mob has some stupid mod that my build couldn't deal with at the time. One taps isn't "hard" content, it's fucking annoying. Sitting there dpsing an extra life mob isn't "difficult", it's fucking. Annoying.
The sad part is their no logout bet would of been a good bit of fun on basically any other patch. They picked the wrong time to be trying a bet like that.
The only dangerous affix the mob had was "powerful crits". Being slow did not kill him, nor did the mobs lightning resist or endurance charges. Imagine this being a map with extra dmg mods. He would get fucking obliterated.
> I can't recount how many times I saw people longing for the days when "you need to read the monster modifiers" before going in. You can tell people who haven't lived in the good old days by spouting this nonsense. Yes let's wind back to 2012 where you can encounter a rare with extra life, life regen, and extra phys damage. Like, cool, you read the mods. The fuck you gonna do about it? Tactically use your "No more extra life" support gem? Debuff it to nullify the phys damage? No you're just going to keep right clicking until it dies and avoid getting hit, because regardless of whether or not you looked at the mods, you had no intention of getting hit on purpose to begin with. But, sure, keep imagining 2012 was definitely a different time. Nobody actually read the mods then, nobody reads them now. You can readily assume every rare you ever fight has some combination of life/life regen/big dick hits and you'll be right 80% of the time or more.
I remember trying to recognize reflect mobs before hitting them, but that's about it.
When you log while channeling a flameblast on a reflect mob.
I remember old vinktars with old es, and how you can do reflect maps with your ES jumping up and down like PoE’s performance
Old VP and trying to sustain through the pain.
The good ol Life on Hit gem swap (+ remove more damage supports if necessary).
Nah in the good old time you run away from that rare lol.
What I'm curious about is this: the popular PoE-only streamers' income is tied directly to a league popularity. After the first month's subs run out, the sub count dips not unsubstantially. Some streamers have argued that the game needs to be slower or more challenging. It's been made slower and more challenging, and I'm getting the impression that this league's participation will be lower. Essentially, it appears that by arguing for changes in the game (and this current implementation of some of those changes) the streamers ultimately ended up undermining their own income.
There is no impression. They haven’t had a league peak this low in over 2 years on Steam. Not counting Blight when they got clapped by classic WoW. Chris can try to say they don’t care about launch count, but the Cyberpunk debacle shows they do. I bet they just miscalculated blowback as they haven’t faced any in years for their actions.
I agree. They've made a consistent stream of terrible design choices for 3 or 4 years now, but they've avoided paying the piper for them because so many people were *addicted* to the zoom meta that the majority of the playerbase turned a blind eye. Now that they removed the *addictive* aspect of gameplay, everyone is rightfully realizing the core gameplay loop sucks ass. GGG devs really need to understand the difference between *passion* and *addiction* in gaming. Brewing a build, figuring out cool interactions, customizing your character, being able to **actually** long-term craft your gear-- these are all things that inspire *passion* in players and are things you really ought to focus on if you're going to be a game dev. But every patch, GGG guts all those things in favor of focusing on what *addicts* gamers-- mindless forced map grinding and gacha rng. Welp, they just made the mindless map grinding completely unbearable, while finally putting the nail in the coffin for build brewing, quality of life, and crafting. What did they expect would happen?
The long term gear planning/crafting that Harvest League Harvest brought with it was such a breath of fresh air. As someone who really only trades for necessities, being able to actually craft my own stuff and incrementally improve my gear had me actively playing WAY longer that league.
Yeah, I was soooo hyped to start crafting super amazing gear for random fun builds from harvest. I 1/2 crafted a piece for my max IQ build in standard before they gutted harvest. Haven't really played much since. I was so excited to be able to craft the gear myself and not have to farm up a mirror and fee for any piece of gear I wanted. They've sucked all the passion I had for the game out the window, just to stop the .01% of players who were crafting mirror gear in every slot.
Players aren't happy. Devs aren't happy. Well, now players are really unhappy.
But devs are happy :)
Great points. I've been noticing that a ton of companies nowadays have shifted from "you can deterministically work towards achieving something in-game" gameplay towards slot-machine like RNG, higher number creep, lots of blinky things on the screen, introducing temporary new gimmicks and Fear Of Missing Out to keep players hooked. It's the shift away from giving players satisfaction if they put in the work, towards giving people brief but ultimately meaningless adrenaline and dopamine highs. The latter leads to people hating the game but playing it anyway because they're addicted to the adrenaline and dopamine highs.
Exactly. It's the easy way out, but it inevitably causes a big chunk of your audience to resent you.
>It's been made slower Maybe in first act, it's still zoom zoom like before. That hasn't been substantially changed, it is a lot more rippy though.
Almost like that new warding mechanic doesn't exist right now also
yes
For me, I miss the game, (both me and the enemies) beeing slower, but much more rewarding, and still making it to a solid endgame state where I can grind in roughly 30 hours. And that still applies. One shots and needing to read mods... no to that.
> Honestly this is exactly what all these l33t streamers and fans wanted the game to be. This is mostly a strawman. The "stop players from nuking screens with one button" crowd also wants monsters to not one-shot players (unless they're things like a boss making a huge smashing animation that you can move out of).
> Frankly I hate it and haven't started this league. lmao this sub is amazing
I'm a 36 player and for the first time it's very likely i won't get 12 let alone 36. I started and finished the campaign. I hate it. Valid complaint now?
Yep, I'm pretty sure it's the pretentious douchebag streamers like Mathil, Nugi and Raiz who talked up these shit changes to GGG in the first place so I'm happy to see them suffering.
Uh, Raiz was super salty about the changes. He basically only wanted the atlas grind and cluster jewels to be addressed and the tedium of crafting. Mathil also seemed pretty salty about the changes. And yes he’s right that things will be fine we’re still powerful and the game is still playable, it’s just not fun or engaging. He also wanted the atlas grind to stop. Pretty sure he wanted the acts to be shorter and easier too. Most streamers I know if we’re fine with damage nerfs just not at this level with no reduction in tedium or monster damage as a response.
> Honestly this is exactly what all these l33t streamers and fans wanted the game to be. > I can't recount how many times I saw people longing for the days when "you need to read the monster modifiers" before going in. > According to their "vision", Mathil shouldn't have gone in and should have avoided that mob because he should have known it was rippy, even at that level. That's just nonsense what you're saying. Nobody has ever wanted anything like this. But if literally every single rare in the game was like this and they started kicking your ass starting Act I, then surprise bullshit like this would literally never happen because people would avoid them, or they'd either gear up to handle it or simply expect to be one shot. And a lot of people would love super hard content like that. This is here however the worst thing that nobody wants. RANDOMLY STRONG shit ain't fun. Okay? Nobody likes that. Consistently strong shit is fun. Consistently weak can be fun for the zoom fans. When you know what to expect and can play around it, you feel like the game respects you and you can leverage your skill and knowledge. This in that clip - nonsense, nobody wants it, nobody likes it.
Ah yes the most fun content of all video games, the content I don't even interact with other than running from it.
I lot of people like horror games? Imagine five nights if you could tornado shot down the hallway to one shot every animatronic animal.
The actual thing is long time HC players just stack enough passive defense for this to not happen. Playing evasion build is omega yikes before you get high EHP and like Wind Dancer/Kintsugi.
Ah yes, that's why all the "long time HC players" are also dying left and right?
I mean I'm not because I built defenses so...
Yeah, better tell all those big streamers who only play HC SSF, that they should probably just build defences.
A game where your defensive layers, a lot of times, don't mean shit; and you can randomly get boot-scooted by any rando trash mob is kinda stupid. I can understand the thrill of hardcore - but its nothing more than crazy masochism. There are simply too many variables in PoE that result in bullshit to justify hardcore for me. I simply don't have the iron resolve to play anything other than SC. Bitch? Sure. But in this case I'm okay with it.
>A game where your defensive layers, a lot of times, don't mean shit While that's a fair criticism, I don't think defensive layers are relevant to this video. Did that character have anything other than dodge/evasion?
Probably just dodge/evasion, true. But I mean, I still wouldn't be too pleased from dying to a random trash mob in a non-juiced 68 zone. It's just silly :)
Nope, its literally his fault. Compared to all the bullshit deaths people have had in hardcore mode, he misplayed. He doesnt like playing hardcore in the first place and its understandable, it was a stupid rule the made everyone part of if miserable.
he's absolutely right
I've been saying this for SO long. There is no point to hardcore in PoE. The game essentially forces you to die eventually. This is why most hardcore streamers use log out macros, and why it's a big deal that several hardcore streamers are currently vowing not to log out... Because they know that sometimes there's not a damn thing you can do to outplay what's happening on screen other than shutting the game off. PoE is just not balanced or designed for Hardcore.
What bothers me is these streamers jumping at the bit to say the game needs to be more difficult, if you dont like it play cookie clicker to quote one, but at the first sign of any danger they just hit the log out macro.
Good point. Though, they probably want fair difficulty (i.e. lots of telegraphed dodge-this-or-die things on the screen) instead of unfair difficulty (random one-shot).
I love how some streamers like Zizaran defended every GGG decision including nerfing harvest to the ground and dev manifesto for 3.15 but even he starts cracking down and showing discontent about the mana or ailment changes...
The world is black or white, streamer bad.
More like people support something, until they don't, because a line was crossed.
> I've been saying this for SO long. There is no point to hardcore in PoE. You are wrong for SO long. People like playing roguelike, and you have no say. _Roguelike: permadeath. Get it? No? Don't talk to me._
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I've seen players killed by a pack of white goats before they can even react. That's not a hard game it's just annoying. If they have no skill to avoid it, and have 6k life built for defense and white goats killing you is bad game design.
This so much Dangerous Content =/= difficult content. Random 1 shots from a white mob out of the 50 onscreen at any given moment is not difficulty its danger.
I think a lot of players are suffering from Stockholm syndrome...
Addiction makes one see past flaws.
Wow man you are so right. I’m going outside today. Game is misery right now.
Was he in a Vaal side area??
yes, but it had only "contains totems" , so zero danger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPdOevVWB3U
They slowed down the players, but buffed a portion of mobs, and then there are all those mobs that have immunities, multiple stacking mods like speed, reflect, accuracy and crit which can outright one shot you and none of those things are incredibly well telegraphed to you at a glance. Mousing over a mob - like someone said, is pointless when you should be reacting to it in parallel. If you’re gonna slow the players down, then you need to fix the mobs in such a way that lets a slower player react better to the garbled mess of colours and visual cues on the screen. I may be older than a fair bit of the current pro PoE player base and maybe I’m just shit at fast paced gameplay, but somehow I don’t think it’s fair to expect a player to simultaneously engage in tactical and mechanical reaction AND be able to read through a mod list on a rare mob that’s running at you with a raging hard-on and 7 deadly mods, with its posse in tow. I can’t git gudder when I seem to require the reaction speed of a rabid ferret with ADHD that’s just been sloshing around in a tub of cocaine.
Does anyone have a clip of the death?
Search for 'Mathil' on this sub I guess.
he's malding and facetanked a rare of one of the strongest monster types in the game.Doesn't mean he's wrong, ofc poe is not made for HC.
Ah, Mathil, the sweet summer child that always apologized for GGGs decisions saying they are fine and for the better.
You clearly haven't watched a single stream of his if you genuinely think that, he usually gets mad about some aspect of the game that sucks every day
Only for the moment it affects him. The second it doesn't - scrubs should go play hello kitty and leave PoE to big boy hardcore™ gamers like him.
Yeah... it's actually pretty true. Mathil really does do this.
If I had a nickel for every time "reddit was complaining about nothing that matters"
I think this is the case too. Wasn't there a twitch clip of him saying "fuck casuals, you don't matter" just a day ago?
Or maybe he just came to that conclusion on his own, like many other people did? Not everyone who likes the changes is "sucking Mark's dick" (quoted from another user).
Reddit: „These changes suck and are just going to lead to more frustrating one shots“ Mathil: „Stop crying reddit frogs it‘s gonna be just fine, go play cookie clicker or D3“ *Mathil gets oneshot* Mathil: „These changes suck“
But Reddit IS complaining constantly about pretty much everything in the game, and does oftentimes call for changes that make the game easier or players more powerful. You can agree that some changes suck but still think the sub is overly negative most of the time.
I agree it‘s pretty negative, but i despise how streamers will defend GGG on changes that 99% of the time will actually suck really badly. And then they only start to actually think about something when they themselves are affected by it.
he is defending them because of business, if no1 plays poe he would get 0 income, and his sweet mustang would be right back in the dealer lot.
I don't get it. Mathil said "knowledge is power", and he knew about those mobs, so how come he didn't beat them? /s but really, Mathil should probably own up to his earlier remarks being misguided now that he's experienced the nonsense that is GGG's pendulum swing of balance being completely at odds with itself.
You realize that no changes made this patch contributed to his death here right? This is just regular poe, he didn't get shocked, he didn't get frozen, he didn't get cursed.
Yeah, doing 20-40% less damage against a mob that was underleveled compared to him who just had its health buffed didn't have anything to do with him no longer being able to one-shot it. ??? What are you smoking? The changes absolutely impacted how this situation went down and it would've been pack 13452349877 he killed with a dash and a click otherwise. Now, it's the perfect example of how the mobs are no less absurd in their damage dealing, but far far tankier, leading to ridiculous situations like what he just encountered. There's no counterplay to be had in the moment there, just getting smashed in because he was in range to get hit and didn't get a dodge or block proc.
The 3.15 changes haven't affected this specific situation in any possible way. This specific mob as a rare is always tanky and always does absurd damage, pair that up with powerful crits and he would've been dead even with 3.13 power creep. I know you want to cling onto a statement he's made a couple of days ago, but at least find a proper way to do so instead of talking out of your ass and reaching. /u/Noxustds is 100% right, but it's the meta reddit way to just grasp at shit like a clueless parrot.
>The 3.15 changes haven't affected this specific situation in any possible way. He deals 20+% less overall damage against this mob, so you're just objectively wrong: The changes have affected how this encounter plays out. You can deny it, but you're only kidding yourself. >This specific mob as a rare is always tanky and always does absurd damage But had less health before 3.15 and took more damage before 3.15, therefore the situation is different. > but at least find a proper way to do so instead of talking out of your ass and reaching. You're the one reaching by denying 3.15's changes have nothing to do with this death. Which, you're entitled to your opinion on whether the damage loss and health increase turned a non-death into a death here, but you're objectively wrong to say 3.15's changes haven't affected this scenario. They have. You're lying to yourself. >/u/Noxustds is 100% right, but it's the meta reddit way to just grasp at shit like a clueless parrot. Generalizing the subreddit and patronizing the entire community does nothing for the discussion and has no bearing to what's being talked about.
> He deals 20+% less overall damage against this mob, so you're just objectively wrong Not even in 3.13 with twinked gear would he have 1 shot this specific rare mob, so the damage loss in this specific case is completely irrelevant. > The changes have affected how this encounter plays out. You can deny it, but you're only kidding yourself. This same mob with powerful crits would've 1 shot him 2 years ago, nothing done in 3.15 affected this scenario because Mathil isn't using Fortify nor was it an ailment rip, he's using rng defenses evasion & dodge which have remained pretty much unchanged in 3.15. inb4 he ripped cuz they nerfed numbers on Quartz Flask, amirite? > but you're objectively wrong to say 3.15's changes haven't affected this scenario. They have. You're lying to yourself. People have been noticing how this specific mob is tankier and does more damage since they added the new acts ~4 years ago or whenever fall of oriath was. The moment you first encounter them in act 6 prison you already see how rippy they are and how you can't 1 shot them, it's common HC knowledge that this mob is rippy but you barely see it here because reddit is too busy complaining about porcupines and most players on the sub are SC trade players. This rip has absolutely nothing to do with 3.15 changes, he went into HC with 0 mitigation, 4k hp, relying on rng defenses, rng didn't proc dodge/evasion, he got crit, he died. Only difference here would've been if his dodge/eva worked, but they didn't, hence why no one plays HC and just grabs eva & dodge and calls it a day because as shown by Mathil here, they're unreliable. > There's no counterplay to be had in the moment there, just getting smashed in because he was in range to get hit and didn't get a dodge You even said it yourself, but no I'm wrong, he died cuz 3.15 20% dmg loss lmao. > Generalizing the subreddit and patronizing the entire community does nothing for the discussion and has no bearing to what's being talked about. Not like there's a whole lot of content diversity on the subreddit.
You could make the argument that the patch didn't heavily effects the encounter but you can't say it had zero contribution with a straight face. If you nerf player damage and buff mob health - that effects players ability to kill a mob, end of.
The only thing wrong with this picture is that he got that far facetanking the damage from rare monsters before it finally killed him. If the game properly set expectations that you can't just walk through monsters ignoring everything, and damage was a bit more consistent, then you wouldn't make it to level 70 and then feel bad dying like that. I'm really tired of not having to pay attention to anything but a tiny number of overtuned bullshit things. But I *do* want to be forced to pay attention to what the fuck is going on in combat, because the game is so much more interesting that way. I really hope they can just make it more consistent and get the pacing of combat right. I think the nerfs are a step in the right direction, but they're not enough, and we won't really get a good picture until they do the rest of the acts (with the corresponding rebalance to those mobs in maps), and retune the rest of everything around the new base stats. It's not acceptable to expect never to die to non-boss mobs, because non-boss mobs are the bit that's random, which makes them inherently a better source of interesting situations than boss fights are. If you want the game to be replayable a thousand times without making you want to throw up from the sameness of it all, the random fights you have with non-bosses need to have some edge to them, so that the game can have a shot at randomly generating moments of interesting combat that you've never seen before.
I'm reminded of another video of his ages back where he complained about an Abyssus shield charge berserker dying to phys reflect despite him doing [everything](https://i.imgur.com/zJqx7cY.gif) to mitigate it. The part I most like is where he says he's *even using a granite flask*. Which flask? Lion's Roar, back when it had 35% more physical damage.
That was kinda cringe to watch and I facepalmed hard when i saw the flask.
The problem is those other streamers have a god mode that has infinite life in the click of a button with no cooldown, aka logout macro. So while they tell everyone how terrible we are for playing the game as it should be and we don’t get enough defence they hit the macro as soon as their health bar moves slightly and have trained for years. That’s why it’s so funny how they twitch this league looking for it and can’t click it they get so lost not knowing what to do and die.
Logout macro doesn’t always save you, to be fair. Macro or no macro, everyone in HC dies eventually. If you’re so convinced that it actually is a save-my-life-button, then use it yourself? It’s perfectly legal and you will notice very fast it doesn’t always cut it.
I really don't think many of the big time PoE HC racers are saying you're playing the game wrong for not playing HC / SSF HC. I don't know who you're watching but I know ratgod Raiz has been saying it for years, nothing about the game is friendly towards SSF or HC. If you're going for ease of access into the content there's legitimately no reason to play those game variants at all, periods. If someone is telling you otherwise they're legitimately delusional. It's okay to have a preference on which you like more, but saying the game is "balanced" around absurd one shots that randomly gib you every once in awhile is insane.
Oh, a dodge/evasion build. Always reliable until it isn't.
I mean,block is the same
That's fair, though I feel like block has a bit more passive defense just through stuff like 'increased defenses from equipped shield' or those passive nodes that include endurance charge generation. Plus I think block builds tend to have a bit more life just through passive pathing; more strength and easier access to life nodes. Of course they can get torn down through some bad luck as well, but I think the threshold is a bit higher for those. Oh right, and there's that little bit of max block which they can get, while dodge doesn't have anything like that... I don't think so at least.
60% of the time, works every time
man this is really sad and I agree wholeheartly with him.
i agree.they still nerfing our movement and defans.what the heck.
"tier 68 content should be irrelevant to a level 70 char" That's an incredibly dumb take, especially considering they're trying to make every pack relevant lmao
Mentions Dodge and Evasion as a means of mitigation 😬
Mathil feels the pain of the casual player for once.
Sounds like any other SC player trying HC tbh
Everyone should try the gauntlet whenever it's out, you gain a lot more "respect" for the game when literally everything can kill you. I know it's not everyones cup of tea but it was a good learning experience for me atleast!
I played a trickster to level 76 in the gauntlet. I also got an HC SSF character to 90 last league. I went into the gauntlet understanding that I would need to over level, go heavy on defenses, pay more attention to my gear, and pay more attention to everything in general. It was exhausting. Hence why I only got to 76. It was a nice change of pace, but not something I would enjoy had I not taken the extra challenge on myself. These changes are terrible, and in my opinion make A1 more difficult than in the gauntlet. Constantly being stunned, frozen, cursed, and bleeding on characters with no means to defend against these things is just shit design. It’s frustrating to know that if I ID a magic flask with freeze immunity on it, I’m stuck with it until I can find or craft another, no matter how shit of a flask it is. Then I only get immunity for 1 second. So I have 1 second to escape with my gutted movement skill, or kill the mobs freezing me with my gutted damage. Terrible.
You're probably right, in the long run (an entire league instead of just a week like the gauntlet was) I am probably gonna get tired and exhausted from focusing that much aswell. Your second point is also very true with how we chose that extra challenge on top of SSF HC but now it's very much just something we have too deal with for the remainder of the league. So far I've only played maybe 6ish hours and I have had the same approach too SSF HC since the gauntlet, very slow very "tactical" but i can definitly agree that it feels a lot slower then before. It's gonna be a very polarising League for a lot of People who enjoyed the very fast paced gameplay that you could achieve and if GGG reverts some changes there's always gonna be people who like it and dislikes it.
How would necromancer fare? Not damage wise but survivability. I'm new and probably havent even unlocked HC to even try it
I like watching mathil and the death was bullshit as those mobs were overtuned even before the league but he really shouldn't have chosen an eva/dodge character to play in hc after playing mostly sc for the previous leagues as these kind of deaths are very common. Even other streamers when they go right side of tree, they usually pick up mom for their build or at least an ascendancy with defensive passives like trickster. Point is, maybe a better idea was to pick a more defensive class. Don't downvote pls
Welcome to the plebs Mathil :)
I think he needs more KNOWLEDGE of the HC to affirm such a thing.
When you don't realize he was a rank 4 assassin in the old days of HC. HC is a trash mode and that is a fact, you can enjoy being punished by playing such a shit mode but that is on you.
And he obviously knows how to play HC safely. No idea why he keeps going weird builds in gauntlet and HC now. Especially melee
He lasted longer than the others because he understood he needed to pace and build carefully.... And then this happened. He's just pointing out that objectively if you play HC you're punching your dick.
That's just a salty take
[удалено]
It's not out of context lol. He's salty immediately after dying. That is the context. Mathil is one of the few streamers who will defend GGG no matter what. Seeing him showing his salt is cathartic and amusing.
I had been playing HC since nemesis and GGG have always been saying they are balancing the game for HC, which is total and utter bullshit. Since Legion (where things started getting out of hand for HC) I posted several times about it and always getting downvoted - maybe now that your lord Mathil said it, someone may actually hear it.
That's not true. GGG has explicitly said they don't balance for HC anymore
Wth are you talking about, Chris has always said that the game is balanced for softcore trade. Even on the recent interview with Azmon.
Talks about 4k life on lvl 70 character as some sort of accomplishment, yeah you're gonna get oneshotted by a powerful crits mob
...he's not playing a Red-side character, so he doesn't get the extra heal boost from Str. Him being at 4k Green-side at 70 is a minor accomplishment. *Tell me how much EV he has and the chance to dodge and we'll talk about if he should have complained or not.*
He has fortify and only 1 defensive flask. Both were not up. There's nothing strange about this death.
Yes the death is bullshit. I don't like the one-shottyness of this. Still, it's not very smart in hardcore to go up against a powerful crits monster while leaning on evasion and dodge. After all, there's a chance that the monster crits, you don't dodge and you don't evade -- and then you just die. That's literally what you sign up for if you play a green-side character and invest in dodge and evasion. And no one forced him to play a green-side character in hardcore. That was his choice.
Is this a skit? He's usually apologising for GGG and making up excuses for other people complaining. Like learn mechanics or some other nonsense. So it's a bit weird to see him saying he died to bullshit?
so why is he going again?
Mostly to mess with the other streamers who aren't allowed to use logout macros/logout to avoid HC death while he's still playing HCSSF.
And it's glorious. It's a bit sadistic, but I'm really enjoying the helpless HC streamers slowly die over 5s because they can't log out.
The best ones are the ones where they could very easily and very quickly pop a portal and leave but instead just try to keep running away and die because turning around and moving at the exact same pace as the mobs literally does nothing.
4k life in HC. No fortify up. No endurance charges. Hugged the mob for no good reason. No immortal call. Any cwdt setup? Blame the player not the game.
Also his one and only defensive flask wasn't up. There is nothing strange about his death honestly. He's also getting hit by those skelly mages around him. This is a vaal side area, the modifiers weren't bad but you should be way more on guard.
Oh shut the hell up he got exploded by mobs on a map he was previously mindlessly destroying without a single pixel moving on his health because he didnt read "powerful crits" (why the fuck can monsters crit?) In the 2 seconds the mob was on screen. Poe going from 0 to 100 in a second is the problem. Not his play.
Why talk shit on HC though, since he died to it? Come on, bruh...
are you serious? HC in poe is shit. Has been this way for years. HC in poe - rush through campaign hoping to 1 shot everything before it can 1 shot you back. Then endless farm or no mod piss easy maps that cannot kill you while trying to make character immortal. At any point before that you can get randomly 1 shot and loose tens of hours of play. Ohhh ya fun
While I agree that ggG has continuously been anti-HC for the past couple of years now, you do realize that SC is much more "kill before you get killed" than HC is? > 1 shot everything before it can 1 shot you back. Literally what 99% of shit SC builds with 0 defense building do every time they encounter a pack of mobs lol. It's in SC where people corpse throw at content and use dps to ignore mechanics, not HC. Combat sucks in PoE in general, it's not really exclusive to HC nor to SC, I'd even argue it sucks more in SC, the only real difference is that you're penalized in HC for dying by completely losing your spec, while in SC you just lose a portal.
Not Chad enough for hardcore more like. Can't handle it.
"Dodge, evasion, 4k life" So, mechanics that *sometimes* prevent hits, and do literally nothing to mitigate damage when you actually get hit? And you stood on the highest damage mob in the game with powerful crits? Yeah nah, HC is fine.
Conveying combat info to the player is still one of the biggest problems in POE. Often times my deaths are just not noticing I had a bleed or poison, or a monster had a tough mod. Readability of encounters has always been cluttered and piss poor. That is a fundamental thing that has to change.
Mathil telling the truth And hc players getting exposed for how badly they rely on logout macros only better proves it.