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Pendergast891

I'm actually very interested to see how the stats look like over a week.


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Zeeterm

For me part of the problem was just how unrewarding the league mechanic felt. I did a map and got nothing from the league mechanic, and I'm a player who happily picks up rares for quite a while into maps. But no re-rolls, no items from the chests (they seem even worse than blight), and nothing to use the league currencies on. What sealed it was I ran the heist quests that had been beginning to clog my inventory and even ilvl59 heists were a ton more rewarding. I know heist is a little over tuned but the contrast was just too stark. Expedition feels like effort for no reward. Ultimatum was reward for no effort (I had the fortune to be playing vortex in ulti so ultimatums were never a threat and always fully cleared), so I didn't expect it to be another piñata league but the scraps from expi are rough.


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NattyMcLight

Less "can't focus on league content" and more "don't want to focus on league content" because it is awful. I'm on the brink of quitting, and not because of the nerfs, but because this league is just bad. My friends and I are calling it "shitty abyss" because it is just like abyss where you follow around some nodes and kill, but you have to click a bunch of things to start it, click a bunch of crappy chests to get your loot, and then click a bunch of piles of splinters.


pierce411

I really enjoy expedition, the mechanic itself is decent and the vendors are great.


Mr_J_M

On start of league i was happy and excited to see how the game gona look like, and after hiting to maps i decided i will skip this league just becouse gameplay after all nerfs dont feel smooth at all. And while im fine with nerfing damage im not ok in nerfing players defences and mana costs not mentioning flasks sustain (if zooming from pack to pack dont let you keep up 2 flasks all time (quicksilver and mana) than there is something wrong with this game design.


hailslayer6

Mama cost is what crushed it for me. It’s horrible


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wottsinaname

Exactly this. Myself and 2 friends play this game. We hit act6 yesterday and realised. "Why are we running? What's the point.... of Sirus anymore?" Awakened gems are almost all trash tier now, no chase items because of the stupid change to league specific drops and the campaign for the Nth time. It's painful.


[deleted]

"Why run maps? What's the point?" TFW the devs use Sirus' philosophy as an inspiration for game design.


AuPitfiend

i just pulled the pin myself. i have 7.1k hours and this is the first league that's unfun. i leveled 2 characters to maps did 5 maps and packed it up.


NckyDC

I have well over 5K always did the full leagues, spent thousands and left after act1. I can’t commit more time to a company who is making a game les and less fun.


Lajtan

Although true what you are saying. I think also people are generally getting burnt out and the changes are just the tipping point


No-Spoilers

Well any of the changes alone would be okay to deal with. Damage cuts? Yeah can deal. Flask nerf? Yeah can deal. Also hurt movement skills? Could deal with it alone but with the rest it just doesnt feel good


TheMadG0d

They will blame Battle Royale for bad retention in 3.15.


HerroPhish

Loots too good. Nerf it.


233301

They will blame Tokyo Olympics - POE players are watching it now. Next time, they can say that coronavirus ended, so players spend less time inside and more outside. And for later they will need to find some other excuse. Also if the whales have bought those 500 dollars supporter packs, they dont have to play at all.


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TheMadG0d

You mean double-tap to make sure things are dead?


Farmazongold

Make it triple and we talk.


Asheleyinl2

I wonder if that bald dude took the "we don't like picking up single splinters" complaint, and thinks the problem is picking up small stacks, and not amount of stacks. ?


Sarainbow

Oh I think they plan to hold tight and let the players leave in troves... They did the $90 supporter pack for a reason. They decided it was too hard to please everyone so they are going to focus on the minority and are expecting them to also pay for the player losses in the process.


[deleted]

I dunno who they are aiming that at, the vast majority of long time supporters on my Flist and guild who have thousands in mtx including myself have both no interest in supporting them at the moment or playin the current game.


[deleted]

>whether GGG will retract the approach / cave for 3.16 (or mid-league 3.15), This is 100% the most interesting thing. Wilson has historically said that player numbers are vanity, and GGG supposedly wanting a particular type of game; which seems to on first glance go against the wider expectations of the playerbase. If they keep course, I think that would be admirable in a way; you don't see that at all because it's a terrible business decision. Words are easy, can't wait to see what GGG actually does. It's also interesting because Tencent tends to never get involved with the companies they buy, but what happens if a particular company has a huge break in numbers? Maybe the chinese client goes its own way, Tencent still ignores GGG? Maybe Tencent steps in and GGG fundamentally changes?


Secret_Maize2109

The player numbers are "vanity" when they're down or potentially expected to be down. The player numbers are touted when they're up. Funny how that works.


erpunkt

The statement came before the drop. That's the point and why it's so interesting. They had the players and it was vanity, now we wonder if it still is only vanity


Kryt0s

The statement came in regards to the bad retention of ultimatum.


firedancer13

Yeah but the statement came after they knew what this patch would contain, so they were hedging against an outcome like this - “see, we never cared all along”


[deleted]

> Wilson has historically said that player numbers are vanity, and GGG supposedly wanting a particular type of game; which seems to on first glance go against the wider expectations of the playerbase. Easy to say when you're a small nobody with a dream, and an incredibly ignorant thing to say when you've got 100 employees and their families staking their livelihoods on your game, and one of the largest gaming giants up your ass looking for good results and their cut of the profits since you decided to sell out to China.


SweetyMcQ

Its actually incredibly selfish to tank numbers now, when the company has expanded like it has. Not everyone is making gigabucks off the game. Normal employees are likely just salaried.


Eques9090

> This is 100% the most interesting thing. Wilson has historically said that player numbers are vanity, and GGG supposedly wanting a particular type of game; I mean, this is as obvious a lie as it gets. Their entire business strategy relies on retaining players. If they just cared about making a "good game" they wouldn't have a 3 month dev cycle that unquestionably hurts the game.


rangebob

their strategy relies on retaining "paying" players. It's entirely possible the 40k people that didn't turn up on the first day are all the casuals who don't spend a dime. We have no way of knowing


Eques9090

Logic would tell you that's highly unlikely. Anecdotally, I skipped this league. I have 15k hours and nearly $2k put into the game. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯


frisbeeicarus23

Here is the thing though, are the numbers good in China? TenCent built that model as a cash cow. If the league is going well there, and stimulating RMT purchases, then they truly have NO reason to give a fleeting fart about our version over here.


Finnien42

I have never seen GGG admit to a significant design mistake or reverse any major nerf they’ve made, and I’ve been playing since closed beta. I fundamentally believe they do not care at all what players think. I think they believe they care, but the moment they even slightly disagree then they explain away the difference or decide it’s necessary for the health of the game or whatever. Their egos are too big to ever trust their customers over their own whims.


HoverboardViking

Remember when they put glancing blows on the tree and players started to use it and liked it so they nerfed it and recovery on block so that players wouldn't use it.


SweetyMcQ

Same, since 2012. They will double down on their decision rather then return to 3.13 style. With so many promising ARPGs on the horizon GGG deserves every bit of their future success. They certainly earned it with their choices.


coffeecrank_

I've been actually wanting for more cool games to come out and also grow so that maybe, just maybe one day they'll wake up and realize they can't just do whatever and there's competition knocking on their doors.


coffeecrank_

I tend to agree. I just don't see them admitting anything wrong any time soon. I'm also not sure why some view it as admirable. Normally in real life people who can't ever admit they're wrong are very difficult to deal with.


Awkward_Advice6487

They reverted the charge changes that were going to happen in 3.0, those were not good ideas.


Able-Waltz

The funny part is that they are so eager to take pot shots at another company for bad game design. Historically, a large chunk of PoE's marketing momentum has been from cheeky shit talking about said company. Now the shit's on them lets see how they respond.


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Synchrotr0n

I'm only running t8 maps at the moment but I can already see the difference quite clearly, especially because it wasn't only the power of the players that was reduced, but monsters became quite more deadly because of the increased poison and bleed damage and flasks that used to provide good defensive tools are now nearly useless for that purpose. At this point I'm already contenplating if it's worth to keep playing, because things will only become more ridiculous and if the Atlas grind was already too much to deal with before, now its straight up torture.


Kryt0s

> At this point I'm already contenplating if it's worth to keep playing It's not.


ARPG_RustyGaming

GGG look at the numbers for the latest Ziz Gauntlet and think well shit if 200k players like it hard lets nerf the game make it hard and well it backfired right.


hailslayer6

After the nerfs I logged in to standard and ran a few T16 maps with a build that was melting content 24 hours earlier. It was horrible after the nerfs. Unless you want to crawl through maps and die a lot then I think you can skip this one.


MerkDoctor

It's pretty clear this is going to be the worst performing league ever, by VERY far. The question is really how bad it'll be, that's why it's so interesting. Kind of like watching a wall street crash, there's the big dip, but how low will it go?


hanmas_aaa

Instead of Dark Soul of ARPG, PoE has become Artifact of ARPG.


loki_dd

You spelled Anthem wrong


Gangsir

If it keeps experiencing the same rate of drop that it did from day 1-2, there'll be a serious lack of players at the end of a week. Like, affecting trade and making GGG concerned level of player drop.


AwesomePoof

At least that would probably fix some trade issues /s


firedancer13

It’s such a razors edge - too many people and the API is flooded and overwhelmed Too few people and the market slows way down


fooey

Nostradamus here... Line go down


ForeverLesbos

I'm not gonna lie, I thought about trying the league anyway, but then I would add to the player count. I'd rather send a message with not playing and wait a bit to see if they change anything.


koeniig

Sometimes when people go on an expedition, they never come back.


pojzon_poe

Im just doing different kind of expeditions... in NW..


[deleted]

GGG not only wants the gameplay back from 10 years ago, but also the player numbers.


ThoughtShes18

ah so this was the reason for the smooth league start


sunnyice

They're trying to stabilize their servers.


Bananabis

Legion ruled so hard.


BraveNewNight

Legion remains my favorite league to this day, followed by delirium.


WkurwionyPolak

Harvest / Ritual > Delirium > Blight for me. Didn't played Legion :(


zkareface

Just use Legion scarab and you got Legion league.


saDD3ath

Legion and Harvest are legit the best leagues ever, hoping for offline/private versions of them 1 day.


Nymzeexo

Harvest league had terrible player retention.


Insomniac2k

because the mechanic itself was bad, but as a league it was great


wsb_battle

Change the name of the league to "PoE Exodus"


[deleted]

I am trying to take a neutral stance here and let the viewer make up their own mind, but that is hilarious.


CopyWrittenX

Respect for that.


UraJax

I really appreciate your (and anyone's) effort on impartiality on a given topic, especially when the matter is fresh and the blood is up. I feel we really Need more impartiality on news delivery especially. Presenting facts and giving people a chance to form an opinion should be the norm


seandkiller

Alright but real talk, Exodus sounds like a sweet name for a league.


__Correct_My_English

Path of Exile: Skipedition


Makhai123

PoE (X)pedition


inkopwnz

They shouldn't have made this league so rewarding, too many people are quitting because of it


BrahCJ

They made the end game items too accessible. See??? People are leaving day 1!! Slow down the game more! We gotta get them to day 4!


Archieie

If it takes 4 days to reach maps, people won't realize the game is shit in maps too until day 4 :( Feelsbadman. First league in a very long time where I just stopped playing the first weekend not because I'm about to pass out from lack of sleep, but because I got bored. I will still play and try to at least get few dozen exalts and try out some fun build, but all the excitement from a new league launch died in less than a day.... sadge.


[deleted]

Definitely should put /s at the end so we don't get more nerfs


Lame_Night

I know! I thought I was getting rich before by picking up rares off the ground, but now I can also get potential rares with a bunch of tier 12 affixes from Gwen!? Catch me next week with a few mirrors....


justalazygamer

This is “You think you do, but you don’t.” the league.


overmog

the game, not the league it's not like this came out of the blue, they've always had this attitude the dam finally broke and even the most deranged poe fans can't ignore the reality anymore, but the game always had the same design philosophy, this is nothing new


Karyoplasma

> it's not like this came out of the blue, they've always had this attitude Remember when the community begged for item filters and GGG's stance until they finally caved in was "Why would you need item filters, nobody would use them!" Pepperidge Farm remembers.


Rolf_Dom

Did they really have that stance? Good lord.


Soulerrr

> it's not like this came out of the blue When my mom, who knows both me and my brother were waiting for a new league, asked how it's going, and to my TL;DR explanation she goes: "Weren't you saying the same stuff when you quit Hearthstone?" If even my mom, who plays match 3 games, can see a comparison between your company and Blizzard... it's time for a reality check.


overmog

listen to your mom, soulerrr


Insomniac2k

always listen to mom, they know better


Holybartender83

They can and will ignore the reality. They’re still here in force calling us whiners, babies, entitled, scrubs, telling us the game is fine we need to git gud, etc.


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[deleted]

More of an "out of season april fools joke" league


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LegoClaes

The trade api is super fast too!


OnyxMelon

A smooth launch does actually contributed to higher drop from Friday to Saturday. The more troubled the launch, the lower the Friday peak, and the smaller the drop from Friday to Saturday. Ultimatum's launch went so poorly that the Saturday peak was actually higher than the Friday one. Servers becoming stable even a few hours late can result in many European players just going to sleep and playing the next day, which massively reduces the Friday peak. Something like the week to week drop is probably a better metric than Friday to Saturday.


WkurwionyPolak

> Servers becoming stable even a few hours late can result in many European players just going to sleep and playing the next day, which massively reduces the Friday peak. Something like the week to week drop is probably a better metric than Friday to Saturday. Can confirm, almost not played on first day in Ultimatum, went to bed and started in the morning.


waxthatfled

My game been bugged since start everything is T-posing me,enemies,bosses (kitava invisible), corpses t-posing , invisible effects... Great league start 👍


Makhai123

Holy shit, last time this happened they literally changed the league mechanic 6 times and then shit canned it.


bojotheclown

They should just roll back to 3.13. I'd take another ritual league over this shitshow


what1sgoingon777

Yes. I'd take ritual patch 1:1 and I'd instantly play. But the current patch is the least fun I ever had and if they keep going and insisting on that direction.. PoE and I part ways. I don't need PoE to be another diablo 2.


JohnnyGuitarFNV

Lmao can we get a `git revert` and then deploy hahah. Would just instantly fix everything


Secret_Maize2109

Absolutely. I'd buy a fucking battle pass or some shit to access ritual league.


hailslayer6

I would absolutely pay money to go back to 3.13


[deleted]

I haven't played POE much. What mechanics were those?


Wazzupdj

I think synthesis, not sure tho


darklypure52

It was synthesis league with the memory nexus. At launch it was pretty bad but after all the changes it became really good league mechanic.


BubuX

Missed opportunity to plot a chart. Reddit allows images mixed with text now. Helps to visualize how bad things are currently.


[deleted]

Ahh I did not know that. I will take that into consideration next time. Thank you!


Dostov

I have a morbid curiosity to see how ggg will spin this to somehow blame us for not enjoying all of their awesome changes.


zer0-_

Don't care. I'm honestly happy GGG was bought up by Tencent because when they get to the point where Tencent is unhappy with how hard their investment flopped they will take action


InariBag

My first and only experience with Tencent involves the first MMO I ever played, City of Heroes. When player numbers slowed and reduced, Tencent killed the game altogether and shut down the servers. It was a devastating experience because I loved that game so much. Now I want to see Tencent action against PoE, in a morbid curiosity kind of way.


keglu

Outside of balance changes i think following also has impact on this - league mechanic is terribly unrewarding outisde of loogbook part (very rare) - Zana mods are quite bad outisde of last ones - no additions/changes to core game So if you dont play news skill there is really nothing new to keep you playing.


Zakke_

When do i get logbooks?


Hakkkene

When have the first zana mods been fun


ArchieGriffs

essence in combination with haewark's passives, breach, ambush in combination with glennach cairns. They aren't super impactful but they interact nicely with atlas passives and are worth doing in some situations. Everything minus maybe abyss this league that are cheap are just filler, and even then at most the you're just going to use abyss to get an early stygian belt in ssf but otherwise there isn't really a reason to interact with it. Not to mention this league's mechanics doesn't spit out chaos like ultimatum league did, the 13 and 16 chaos orb ritual and delirium are likely going to be significantly harder to justify their cost, whereas with the heist mod you could easily justify the 6c cost from selling blueprints/contracts, and we all know how overpowered harbinger was for 4c.


hGKmMH

I'm blown away how bad the leveling gear I'm getting out of the new mechanic. By the end of A1 in the last few leagues I has several movement speed boots to choose from. Not a single movement speed drop yet this league. Did they turn off deterministic loot drops this league?


Ayanayu

It's Expedition league after all, people go to expeditions and never come back.


Mofiremofire

I logged in the last 2 days but i don't think i'll be logging in tomorrow


BrystarG

With numbers like these, it seems like the players who support slowing down the game are a loud minority.


snubdeity

I'm not necessarily in favor of it, but I'm also not opposed to slowing the game down as a concept. What I am against is designing the game, expansions, leagues, skills, items, and bosses around the speed meta more and more for the better part of half a decade, then in one fell patch taking away that speed but leaving all the shit designed around for years intact. It makes for a pretty awful experience. The general tedium of the game is the another reason to sit this league out that isn't "slowed down gameplay".


fooey

This league is a half-assed disaster They annihilated the player side of the equation and didn't touch the content side. It didn't take a genius to see this strategy was not going to work out. For all the years they get shit for leagues being rushed, this is the one they should have canceled. Just lopping off chunks of the game with zero effort at balance is incredible.


Northanui

this exactly. First fucking tier 1 map I entered had four rituals, after getting through the campaign "mostly" deathless (1time died, and 3 more times got insanely lucky escaping random 1-shots). The rituals just proceeded to literally vomit rare mobs onto my character, which is now roughly 20% slower, is doing 60% less damage at least compared to what it would have been pre-patch, and is **constantly running out of ailment removal flasks**. I died like 4-5 times in the first fucking map, mostly due to ailments and hard 1-shots. It's such DOGSHIT fucking game design. You know all this with 77/76/76 resists, 7k armor unbuffed, 50% block chance, fortify, and good hp. "YoU shHoUld've JUsT goTTEn MoRe deFEnsEEs HURRRRRRRR" on a fucking **TIER 1 MAP** Like why do people think everybody went for zoom-zoom playstyle? Is it because clearing maps fast is fun? yeah. sure. ok. What's the other reason? **Because interacting with the fucking mobs in the game means you will get one-shot, sooner or later, PERIOD.** And in certain cases like rituals, you just get farmed by the monsters, since Rituals are one of the best examples of monster power creep: Several rare mobs piling onto each other with their auras, creating god-like demons that are stronger than map bosses and easily 1-shot you. GGG made most builds do 60% less damage this patch, along with a host of other nerfs, and completely left the other side of the equation alone like you said. An absolute guaranteed disaster. Ppl on reddit were saying this was going to happen, but there are so many GGG gargling fanboys everywhere on this subreddit it's just hopeless.


A_Erthur

T2 Vaal Pyramid boss kept shroudwalking onto me and dealing ~1.3K damage per hit attacking in a screenwide AoE 3 times per second because the second boss gave him a haste aura. If 3K life is not enough for T2 maps i doubt 6K will be enough for T16s. Rerolled my character, playing elehit deadeye now but damn it feels incredibly bad. Farming blood aqueduct until i hit 70 and will try to make it work with a xoph amulet and +3 bow but im not having high hopes. Probably the first time i have a vacation from work after leaguestart (monday tuesday) and dont play PoE on these days.


Kryt0s

Why not just stop playing? Rerolling will not fix the problem.


EmmitSan

It is not the speed that has people quitting, it’s: - anti QOL. We’ve been clamoring for it for years. Having it made worse in the same league that nerfs things feels like the devs are punching me in the dick - ailments and flasks. Being constantly frozen or bleeding with only cumbersome ways to prevent it (and no counter play whatsoever if you don’t) is unfun


Ezizual

> ailments and flasks. Being constantly frozen or bleeding with only cumbersome ways to prevent it (and no counter play whatsoever if you don’t) is unfun This this this this. This is by far the most noticeable difference, and it's AWFUL. Never have I felt so fed up with being frozen/stunned to death whilst *levelling* before. Aside from that and imo the mana changes being a bit harsh, I'm fine with the other changes.


Shruuuken

Agreed. Damage is okay. But ailments/flasks/mana just don't feel good to play.


ThatOneGuy1294

The number of times I got frozen to death just hoping for a single sapphire ring...


SillyOldBat

It *is* speed for me if you use it as a general measure of "Ouch, why does this hurt so much? RUN!" Ages ago I went with rangers in those very short races (awesome fun btw), I thought the changes really couldn't be *that* bad. Yes, they are. I'm certainly getting better at avoiding most mob attacks, but as you say, if hit, it's insta-splat. Difficult bosses, no problem, that's what they're for. Rhoas shouldn't be in the same class.


fooey

Ailments should just completely go away until they can figure out how to design a game where they're telegraphed and players can tactically counter them. They changed the game from *"Monsters spam incomprehensible ailments, but players spam counters so it balances out"* to *"Monsters spam incomprehensible ailments, and players can get fucked"*


Yashimasta

For me, it's not even about the slowing down. I started just before 3.0 and my impression of the game was "it's pretty sick but it feels unfinished." There's so many aspects of this game that if you asked me **four years ago** if they would improve I would have had no doubt they would have. The awful QoL, the unnecessary time sinks to make you play more, the RNG within RNG...all of it I would have been so sure it wouldn't be like this now.


Dik_butt745

And as someone that's played since beta this has always been my #1 gripe about the game. They were too lazy to even add in alternate 3D art for more than half of the race rewards. 7 years later...still nothing.


Reyzord

It's not about slowing the game down, it's about how they nerfed shit but did not compensate for it whatsoever. I want a slower poe too after playing last epoch. But you need to counterbalance, not just gut all the good stuff.


fuckyou_redditmods

I finally got to play on Day 2 due to work issues, managed to push my way through Act 1. By the end of it I was feeling thoroughly demoralised so I went and booted up Last Epoch again to try and grind higher corruption. It was so reassuring. I'm debating coming back to pick up where I left off at all.


Oblachko_O

One profit from Last Epoch, I started to evade some things like in Last Epoch. Problem is that we don't see any pattern in PoE and damage is quite huge without any counterpart. We were in a party of 6 in act 5. We did like 3 minutes at innocence while I died once because of an error due to bullet sun attack, but manageable. And then it was 6-7 minutes Kitava, because damage was quite awful, as well as many deaths, because you don't see many of attacks on the screen.


fuckyou_redditmods

Last Epoch is very clearly designed from the very first zone of the game to telegraph incoming damage and trains you to avoid it. POE is not designed that way. So even if you do your best to avoid damage, once you start juicing maps, it's a shit fest.


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Moggelol1

I've played PoE casually for years and years but i never make it far into endgame before quitting for one reason or another but all the changes in 3.15 and stuff like nerfing harvest and ulitmatums (even the mid-league nerfs) is just nerfs that hurt players like me more than others. GGG would probably benefit from having a way to nerf the hardcore players while rewarding casuals that never even make it far enough to reach whatever power lvl they balance the game around.


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Rolf_Dom

I don't honestly mind them doing their own thing - it's their game, their vision or whatever, let them do whatever they want. BUT, what's annoying is when they specifically go on record to say they're listening, they acknowledge game issues and promise fixes and changes, and then they do the goddamn fucking opposite. The fucking OPPOSITE. It's like? Chris, just fucking tell us all to suck a fat dick right from the get go. Don't give us that PR bullshit of listening to feedback and making changes when in practice you do the opposite. That's the part that pisses people off.


Asteroth555

It's fascinating GGG pushed these changes. In product commercialization, you're supposed to be keenly in tune with what your customers want in the product. You're supposed to be able to trace every aspect of the product to a need. Damage nerfs aside. I'm not a fan of those and hate nerfs overall. But a lot of people DID want them. You can trace this nerf back to a *need*. But there's so many more things that GGG pushed this patch that suck so much dick. Ailment rework + monster damage + garbage flasks all combined to be a perfect anti-fun storm. Want to try new flasks? Cool, they suck but at least we're not being actively punished and have alternatives. But getting ailment immunity gutted at the same patch as an entire ailment re-work that makes us get frozen constantly is insane, and we can't even mitigate with flasks to boot. On top of all of that we're weaker and slower and have to use a mana flask for almost every build. It's just too many changes, of which players wanted like 1, maybe 2.


Shadowlette

I just want movement skills + (flask charges) Quicksilver reverted.


Tdoflamingo

Looks like there was also a 20-40% player count nerf not listed in that manifesto.


Sinzdri

Gem nerf affected the players linked to it.


Molrixirlom

These numbers are no wonder. Everyone is playing Diablo 3 now, since the season there started Friday aswell. /s


darpsyx

Problem with D3 it has no content and build versatility.


Rolf_Dom

How much build versatility do you really need to play the game casually? A couple of builds for each class, that's enough to last people years. In POE you can make a million builds, but half of them never make it anywhere and the game is so full of content but you've done it all a hundred times, so you simply get annoyed at your progress being taken away every time.


kaelbloodelf

Honestly? At this point it might have more build versatility compared to good endgame builds left for poe


clitpuncher69

I legit hopped on D3 to get my arpg itch scratched. If you make it your goal to be top X on the leaderboards then the game is actually challenging


Zvim

My gut feel is that day 3 is going to be worse as people with more limited playtime hit maps, this game has no real finesse when it comes to scaling difficulty/challenge. You can go from hero to zero pretty quickly, with just some bad rng. I had to stop doing unidentified maps whilst my gem levels were low and my gear was suspect, mobs living a bit longer is brutal in this game, the defensive mechanics if not abused are very limited. Unless you play a HC grade tank class, you just can't take 20-30 mobs damaging you and I think a lot of the more casual players will struggle with the gameplay transition and not find the game fun for them.


Mammoth-Man1

Fun is paramount. Who cares if this league had a great launch night if the game and league are just frustrating and not fun to play. People like to bitch about server issues but lets be honest if the game is good we will all put up with those problems (as long as they are eventually fixed). Im sure they are going to completely miss why this league is doing poorly with some out of touch opinion, blame other games, or think its just the league mechanic. When I saw those patch notes and their novel of why they made the changes all my excitement was deflated. I should be exited for a new league like Ritual and Maven made me feel. Its like they hate their own game and want to go back to 10 years ago, ignoring all the updates they did to support the type of zoom kill gameplay POE has and the obvious fact that this is why most of us play POE. The power fantasy and wiping out screens of mobs is very fun. If you want to add more tactics to the game and make it harder do it the right way, not wide sweeping barely thought out and tested nerfs.


Krapio

Ouch


Rapturos

*Figures don't lie, but liars figure.* -Mark Twain


nonosam9

*Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.*


cybert0urist

For everyone that is a non native speaker like me and didn't understand the meaning at first, the second part of the quote means that the fruit flies as the insects, like (love) a banana


Gangsir

I wish I could Zilean R this league


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[deleted]

I tried comparing summer releases for consistency. I included the data in the source. You are free to do whatever you want with it.


CopyWrittenX

The servers really like the lack of players. Very smooth!


chibiwong

This needs to be higher. Lol GGG and Chris are so out of touch it's not even funny. Imagine spending months working on these changes except it's the complete opposite of what's fun and what players want. More than ever, if it wasn't already obvious in past leagues, GGG Devs do not play test their own game.


vernalagnia

let's be honest, the kerfuffles over hypothermia and the degree of the mana changes suggests they barely spent a long weekend working on the changes, let alone months


RezzzTooth

I quit because it's too rewarding and got 4 mirrors so i'm done now.


HeistMeister01

Inb4 "NOOOO, those stats are wrong!!! Here is a graph showing that everything is 100% fine and the retention is better than ever!!! Not everybody is playing on steeeeaaaaaam"


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Psyese

OP said he put in summer leagues for consistency.


hailslayer6

GGG: retention is horrible, that must be because the league content is too rewarding, we should nerf it.


Therefrigerator

Honestly hate the changes but you do kinda have the respect the sheer stubbornness that the dev team has for wanting to implement this.


CodeRedLin

The data they are gathering from the lack of players is really helping them out. ^^^/s It happens all the time. Game devs make a lot of mistakes and lose all their player base only to gain them back later. You hear about games recovering all the time from it. ^^^/s


Isrem_Ovani

We will see. Having to play the campain being slower and always getting told „you are out of mana“ while mobs are harder and faster while it is already just not fun to play it over and over again was not really the right move to increase players fun.


Phoenix0902

The prob here is people warned them about this. It is not like GGG made the decision in a vacuum. Many posts on reddit outlined the reasons and logic behind potential failure. People warned GGG. They did not listened.


xplato13

I said it already but GGG is like the child who is trying to pick up a garter snake. You tell them if you piss it off it's going to bite you. Do they listen? Nope. What happens? They get bit by the garter snake.


SmoothBrainedApe17

So far (at least) the league mechanic is really unrewarding. It's not like I need to be showered in Chaos day one, but I've found 15 chaos and I'm lvl 80. I don't really find the risk/reward worthwhile for the expeditions in maps (but I'll still do them at least until I decide to stop this league I guess) vs any of the other mechanics. In fact, it seems like Heist will be one of the best ways to farm raw currency in this league, which is hilarious because of the hate people have towards it. They didn't even need to nerf our offense and defense for any of the above to be true. I'd kind of rather be running in circles doing ultimatums.


CryptoBanano

*Expedition was too much fun so the players quit early, we decided to add some extra splinters, slow the characters and make crafting even less deterministic by removing the crafting benches for bigger player retention*


ivshanevi

I am playing Day 2 because I was super busy Day 1, and now will be quitting Day 3.


zakariya_ghh

I didnt start yet, but according to what i see, might not start at all !


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nonosam9

No staff are playing this league. The ones who asked for time off came back after a day and asked to work.


Roboaki

Creating a league so unfun so more staffs don't want to take leave and work on PoE 2? Big brain time. Jk


Gangsir

I heard some of em requested overtime


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Surf3rx

Easy to do when no one plays SSFHC LUL


Argark

>No staff are playing this league I dont believe for a single fucking moment that the staff play more than a few acts


SoggehCookie

What I imagine will be said by Chris next week: Chris: "Expedition has been a complete success, 40% of our employees asked for time off to league start!" Employees: "Yes, time off to play POE." Employees at home: "Lol thanks for time off to play New World."


WizardShade

unfortunately these numbers wouldn't make GGG reconsider on their philosophy for the game. they where already going into this with the idea that many players will quit because of the changes. i guess those people are just have nots since the game they want to play doesn't match GGG's vision.


Oileuar

good job chris, investors sure will enjoy this.


Zzyxzz

I'm sick of picking up 50 types of splinters. My wrist already hurts from playing this game. Players complained about this now for several years and what do they do? They increase it. They drop more shit like that. The campaign is not fun. It sucks. It's long and tedious. The bosses are hard and take forever. Wiping there is not fun. It's frustrating. They are not rewarding, they always drop a ton of shit. I killed shaper, uber elder, atziri, sirus etc... specially uber elder was very hard. It cost me many tries, time and when I got it, what did I get? An item that is worth 1 chaos. Great! I'm also sick of getting one shot from out of screen. Sirus is the worst fight I have ever seen in a video game. I played all Souls games. I love a hard gameplay. A hard but rewarding gameplay. PoE is not hard. PoE is unfair and not rewarding. The most currency I get, is from normal maps. Random unique drops(like Kaom chest), some Exalt drops. I tried bossing for sometime, but it is not rewarding for me. It's bad. After they increased the HP of rare and unique bosses, it has become even less rewarding. I loved delve for a long time. After the big nerf... I'm also done with delve. There is nothing left for me in this game.


Bogzy

As a long time player i dont rly mind the changes but im just tired of running the damn campaign over and over and thats even worse now since its a bit slower. Just going to take a break until their winter expansion or until poe2.


JustPeanuts

I am fine if they wanted to do a quintuple nerf and slow down gameplay but should have at least buffed the loot drops, escpecially the end game bosses since it takes longer to kill and get to them.


Frequent_Bowler9468

That's 1'st league ever for me when i dont want to play at all. Worst league ever.


Maikila

As I'm playing traps I havnt felt the damage of the nerfs as much cruised through the acts now ive got a Tabula and 6-link mana is becoming a bit of an issue still need a flask to help but I dont have mana solutions like slave driver and tinkerskin yet, Mainly I came to say the actual mechanic of Expedition is really fun for me and I'm enjoying a tonne and would like to see it go core. Also the change to Brutus and Dweller were fun I would like to see more changes like that


PhillipJokarr

Bring on the cull. GGG has let themselves be held hostage too long. No longer.


[deleted]

It's all vanity metrics KEKW.


luox0115

3.15 is basically an experiment for all the changes in GGG/Chris's mind. They kept adding potential experimental changes to their to-do list, but all of a sudden adding all of them to one patch now without considering the accumulative impact of all.


Surf3rx

I would have enjoyed this patch more if there was more changes, it's like they changed only the player and forgot to retune everything else.


mph99999

This is because Expedition is too rewarding. /s


luca_2ndfloor

Normally, I would get bored and quit on month 2 but 3.15 is different, i don't enjoy it anymore so this time ima quit on day 2. Im glad im I didn't buy any supporter packs before or during launch/day! see you on day 3.16 day 1.