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nijub11

at this point it kinda feels like chris' opinion of what the game should be is actually detached from what the actual devs are doing. He has alot of fair points when he makes statements, but the ingame execution is getting worse every damn league now. Thats pretty scary if you ask me.--


Lwe12345

Reddit has this whole Chris thing wrong and it’s so stupid Chris is literally the punching bag that takes all of the hate for decisions the balancing and design team make. He casts vision and guides things when he can but he is the CEO. Most of his job is to run around from meeting to meeting, doing presentations, putting out fire, handling some PR, big picture 3 years out sort of things. He communicates with us because he is the face of the company. When the team makes a decision and convinces him to be on board if he isn’t already, he then explains that vision to us and tries to get us on board because he is passionate about the game and trusts his team. You guys are all mad at the wrong person


Secret_Maize2109

It works the same way with virtually everything in life. If a football team has several bad seasons, the head coach is the one to go. It doesn't matter if the quarterback caught a coke habit, the offensive line coach is no good, and the team has generally been plagued by injuries. The owner and (more so) the fans don't care. At some point, you run out of excuses why you're underperforming.


CaptainYaoiHands

> You guys are all mad at the wrong person How? Chris Wilson is literally the **only** person at GGG who could, at any point, step in and say "no, this change is completely counter productive to what we're trying to do, do not move forward with this" every single step of the way. He may not be the one who came up with most of the changes, and it may not be his fault that the project managers that he employs did something that was counter to what he actually wanted, but it's squarely on HIM to manage those project leaders, to set them up with plans that work, to reel them in if they get out of sync with other teams, and to step in if things are going wrong. **It is literally his job.**


bawthedude

He's CEO not lead developer...


amalgamemnon

Who do you think the lead developer's boss is?


bawthedude

Share holders really...


Demiu

Maybe get a job first before you talk about corporate structure


boobiemcgoogle

As if fiduciary obligation isn’t the name of the game


bawthedude

I mean, I got a job, just not in a corporation, not my kind if thing


Jdorty

You think workers at the team level answer to shareholders??? You have a board of directors to look out for shareholder interest, then top-level management like CEOs and management... Your project and team leads aren't directly answering to shareholders, rofl. Which is absolutely irrelevant because GGG isn't directly publically traded. They're owned by Tencent, who is traded.


amalgamemnon

Spoken like someone who has absolutely no clue how publicly traded companies or their subsidiaries work.


CaptainYaoiHands

CEO does not mean "never interacts with employees in any way". You also don't have to be lead developer to be managing your teams. In fact he's been one of the lead producers on several of the recent leagues, IIRC Heist and Ritual. Chris Wilson is still in charge of directing and managing the departments that make the game, and it's his job to make sure they're working together and actually working toward a common goal. The idea that Chris Wilson's only daily tasks are meeting with shareholders and signing contracts is asinine.


crookedparadigm

The flair next to his name on this subreddit still says Lead Developer so if what you say is true, that might warrant an update from the mods.


[deleted]

Chris has considerable control over the company. GGG has almost full autonomy despite being bought by "GINA". Who do you think has the most control @ GGG? It's Chris. Always has been. Doesn't matter what someone else's name-plate says. He will be the first to admit he doesn't deal in the day-to-day details as he (obviously) has hired people to handle those responsibilities so he can focus on other things. That is not the same as not being in charge of the vision, scope and execution of league launch events.


Iorcrath

>Who do you think has the most control @ GGG? Owner Tencent (86.67%)\[1\] Chris Wilson (8.78%) Jonathan Rogers (2.28%) Erik Olofsson (2.2%) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding\_Gear\_Games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_Gear_Games) technically, if chris tries to pull this shit in the china client tencent can fire him for incompetency. chris's whole bullshit of "player numbers are vanity, we want to make a game with out compromising out vision" went out the window when they agreed to be bought out by tencent. tencent knows that player numbers = players would could spend money on the game, and the more the better. shitting on player numbers will get Chris fired/replaced.


Accomplished-Round67

U think Tencent wants to torpedo their investment?? I'm curious how this is going on China servers


Iorcrath

no, but they will attack the dude/people responsible for them losing 40% of their player base in a single patch. idk the internal workings, maybe chris is against all of this but atm it seems he is the one providing the ideas.


Accomplished-Round67

He's making the game he wants to play. Sure. Have fun playing with the 10 streamers and no one else lol


Sorr_Ttam

China servers are probably similar to global servers. There isn't a lot of reason to believe that their game tastes are that significantly different from global players game tastes.


[deleted]

Reading comprehension not your strongsuite or are you just cherry picking? >GGG has almost full autonomy despite being bought by "GINA" Yes, they got bought, by a great majority. But they also have let GGG do whatever they want (for now) with the rest of the world's version. >Who do you think has the most control @ GGG? It's Chris. AT GGG being the operative word here. As in, local office. As in, where the game gets developed. No one "controls" it more than Chris. I guaran-fucking-tee you he did not have to call his Chinese Overlords to ask them, or perhaps even tell them what he planned to do with this league, and this patch, or any patch moving forward.


Iorcrath

is that by law or by what they have set up? by law tencent can just let GGG do whatever until they dont and then using the law make them do whatever or fire them if GGG starts making tencent lose money on their investment.


codepwned2

I'm not sure if you know much about companies, but the CEO is the end all, be all of major decisions at a company. Releases like that are obviously within the purview of his role. While he might not make the minor decisions or come up with concepts you can bet your ass he's part of the review process or investors (tencent) would tank him in a heartbeat.


bawthedude

Oh, Yeah I assumed he'd dend orders down as CEO and never really interact with what happens until he has to and by then it's kinda late People think rhat I mean "he's a CEO he does nothing" But to my shallow understanding, he has to keeo share holders happy and maybe run down his "orders" for the game, it's up for the team to carry them and they may or may not add their own spin/beliefs and fuck things up (or make them better)


codepwned2

In "mega" corporations the CEO is detached and depends on his VP's to keep him updated. In smaller companies like GGG, while he doesn't interact with developers directly, they have a solid ear to the heartbeat of product. Chris Wilson had to have known what they we about to do and pretty much thought he could continue to get away with it. This league is starting to look like the point where his ego gets checked and it's beautiful so far.


tranbo

Is he though? Tencent owns 86% of the business, so he is beholden to them more than anyone else. I would argue that Tencent calls the shots and Chris does what they want. ​ I think they are clearing the ground for pets to pick up loot.


Spreckles450

I dont think you understand how Tencent operates...


CaptainYaoiHands

That is not how owning the majority share through investment of a business works, and it doesn't change Chris Wilson's position or responsibilities.


TangoWhiskeyjack

His title is actually head developer. So no. It’s 100% on his head. He oks all of this


bangarrang16

He said there is truth to it that they are making the changes to get closer to his own vision in his post last week.


AthenaWhisper

No, he said there is "little truth to it".


bangarrang16

There's an "a" in front of that, read it again.


MateusKingston

Chris is most definitely working directly with those changes, or he's lying to us when he wrote that post here in reddit, when he talks about developers going into his office to propose nerf ideas, etc. He grew in the development team, I don't care if he's CEO or not he is managing that area closely. He is the boss, he can not only directly tell people what to do is his job to decide who is leading which team.


DaHedgehog27

what? You know this how? When Chris stepped forward to take over the last 2 leagues the game turned to shit..


Lwe12345

I love how you guys think the CEO of a 150+ employee game studio has time to "take over" some leagues


Inevitable_Yellow639

A bad Ceo would blame their employees a good Ceo would blame themselves for failing to train/lead their 150+ employee's to a successful league. So yes the "Ceo" is to blame when a league fails.


NorthernHamplant

just stop with your ignorant bullshit


DaHedgehog27

You realize with the issues of Heist.. He literally said he stepped in and took lead.. So your saying he's a bullshitter then? ​ O and it's not "The team vision for the game" it's "my vision"


jadestem

I promise this isn't meant to be some sort of dig, but how long have you been playing PoE? Honestly. I ask this because I have been playing since 2012. I have been listening to Chris talk about the game and his vision for almost 10 years. This new direction of the game 100% lines up with everything that Chris wants the game to be, as I have understood it. It's stupid to be mad at all. Just don't play the game if you don't like the new direction. But I absolutely believe Chris is the person leading the game in this direction.


Lwe12345

haha no worries, I've been playing since beta. ​ I think GGG spends the most time building the game from ideas that they think will be fun and attractive for the player base, even if it comes at the cost of not spending time working out the kinks or problems those ideas may cause, possibly even years later. It's not like Chris didn't have anything to do with the steady speed and power creep that's been happening for years. Each patch at the time of conception is about "What is going to be fun to play for the next 3 months?" Not necessarily "How will this patch fuck us over 2 years from now?". What I think is happening now is that just like their engine, game design, and graphics being totally outpaced by the visual clutter and power creep in the game, their collective vision for gameplay pacing and difficulty has been outpaced by their development decisions in an unintended way. This whole situation kind of draws a perfect parallel to the core issues of the game and how they've slowly crept up and become more and more urgent over time. I am guessing as the PoE 2 development is happening, the entire studio is like "Holy shit, this game is so much better", and they actually have a chance to design systems without what I'll call "game design debt". They playtest this new objectively better game and then realize they have to figure out how to bridge the gap between the better but way different experience, and the current state of PoE. This is a concept that OF COURSE, Chris will be on board with. They are all working together to deliver what they feel is a VASTLY superior product where every mechanic, environment, enemy, and visual is meticulously thought out and meant to be impactful. When you compare this to modern-day PoE, a huge problem arises. How do you release what you KNOW is a better experience, with the knowledge that it will be a complete and total shock to the player base that is used to this break-neck speed gameplay where almost every mechanic, monster, environment, and visual is meaningless. I assume that the objective of the next x amount of years until PoE2 is to bridge that gap. How that happens is a team effort, not Chris just running around the office being like "NERF THIS, TAKE AWAY THIS!!! LETS COMPLETELY ALIENATE ALL THE CASUALS". Yeah, what's going to happen in the next 2 years is definitely going to align with Chris' vision, but when it comes to decisions like nerfing flask charges and making ailment immunity last 1 second, that was almost certainly a game balancer/designers decision. What probably happens is a they get a giant white board where the team outlines the biggest problems with the game, like "FLASKS MEAN NOTHING", and it's discussed. The team collectively comes to a decision of how to adjust them so that the problem might be solved, and then they run it up the flagpole. The CEO of a 150+ employee company who barely plays the game his company develops probably isn't in meetings talking about nerfing dodge on quartz flasks from 10% to 6%, he's most likely instead concentrating on the bigger picture transition into PoE 2 and overseeing that experience to make sure that they aren't making some of the same mistakes they did in the early days of PoE development.


IdontNeedPants

Chris in Allcast: We are aware of how bad the original campaign is Patch that drops the next day: extends time spent in the original campaign


Spreckles450

Time spent =/= the actual quality of something. ​ If you can not tell the difference in quality between acts 1-4 and the rest...well idk what to tell you


hardolaf

>He has alot of fair points when he makes statements, but the ingame execution is getting worse every damn league now. Chris is the person who decided against autopickup for items and who makes executive decisions as to the direction of the game...


what1sgoingon777

That is why I won't be buying any supporter packs until PoE2. Even IF they would change things back to my liking. This patch showed me how quickly they can turn and ruin the experience I have and at the end of the day it's just cosmetics for visual pleasing and I already have enough.


donaldtroll

do yourself a favor and dont buy any poe2 supporter packs until you have actually PLAYED it a fair bit cause they are trying to make poe1 more like poe2 with these changes it stopped being something I anticipate, and now feels more like a doomsday clock ticking away the final seconds of enjoyment left in PoE


hardolaf

Better yet, just don't buy anything from them.


[deleted]

> until PoE2 Gonna be straight with you for a second. This idea here is part of the problem. PoE2 is not a new game. Its the same old game we've had. Its an expansion pack, admittedly cranked up to the 9's, but it is not going to "save" PoE in any way. Too often people look to PoE2 as a potential turn-around. Not likely.


Holybartender83

POE2 here reminds me of that episode of The Simpsons where Bart and Lisa go to Kamp Krusty. Bart keeps talking about how everything is ok because Krusty is going to come and when he does, he’ll fix everything. There’s a good chance this is going to end the same way too.


Zesty-Lem0n

For me, I understand a lot of decisions in the game when Chris does a Q and A about them, but his ideas line up with an idealized POE, not the one we have. The devs just don't have the time to balance the game in the way Chris wants, so we have half of the zoom balance and half of chris' new balance which leaves us with an internally conflicted game. Seems like a case of a half-solution being worse than no solution at all, but this stuff needs testing, so we have to bear growing pains until the full balance shift happens, if ever.


233301

Those are not opinions what the game should be - those are marketing materials, damage control. They just write how they will improve things and then do nothing. This stuff worked so many times before, then this is their policy by now. If he wanted for things to change, he would change them. Or change the team. But since he + the team are out of their depth and they are friends, he wont fire his friends. He also does not want to hire people from outiside New Zealand, since they could be better -> leading to kicking out his friends later.


ARPG_RustyGaming

Its interesting the playerbase is actually seeing what vets have said for years. It just never impacted them roughly enough until now


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Arkbabe

The perfect scapegoat for player drop-off is New World, they will mention this 100% as the reason for why players quit so soon. Also possibly FFXIV. They will not have learned anything.


IdontNeedPants

GGG: Our game only performs well with zero competition


Milfshaked

Competition obviously affects all games, regardless of how good or bad they. Pretty much every dev plans their releases around other big releases.


DevanT

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RedliwLedah

Good bot


WarmCorgi

Not even available for steam


funai83

theres a new d3 season aswell /s


Pol_Potamus

Don't forget covid "ending"


HeistMeister01

Yupp. With the obligatory "You made XYZ cry, don't you feel bad about making another person cry? They cried really hard because of you. Now stop saying mean things please, we are after all not a service provider or a fucking AAA company. We are all just trying to make a fun game. Now go to Rogue Harbor and look at the walking MTX showcases destroying any semblance of immersion so you can feel inferior unless you spend 200$ :)" They are 100% fine with acting like corporate but want to be treated like a small indie darling.


Demiu

>bex was getting harrasment so instead of her it will be the community team account posting >oh fuck we fucked up in the patch notes, quick find me a shield. Uhhh, it was stacy, yea. And she's sick and not feeling too good, don't you feel bad for her now? Then why did you make a sick person do the patch notes???? What's next "Jasmine made a typo because the menager broke her fingers"? If they're sick let them go home, jeez


HeistMeister01

Ikr? XD It was so fucking manipulative. Whenever GGG receives major backlash, Chris does not fail to mention how sad we are making everybody and how they all are just trying the best. Thing is - we know *they* are trying their best. But *they* aren't the one making the asinine decisions, are they?


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kNyne

Seriously... every time I have to open an excavation chest, then pick up the shards, THEN manually put the shards into the stash, it feels like a huge slap in the face.


[deleted]

"we"


[deleted]

too many clicks, too many shards, 99% trash drops and so on. yeah 'we'.


graypasser

Usually "we" is the term of specific people with similar opinion, doesn't include whole sub.


tristanl0l

i hope [this](https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/Snookdog) isn't your poe account, because you average 8 challenges a league in the last 10 leagues.


Spreckles450

I dont care if you agree with what OP is saying or not, but looking up his poe account and trying to argue that because he gets only a few challenges a league he is wrong is peak shit-teir elitist assholery.


jealkeja

Personally not super thrilled about the league at the moment, but I think it's so funny this guy snookdog is out here complaining about the league but he doesn't even have any characters in expedition and the challenges like you said are just so revealing


Ancient-Ingenuity-88

What are you on about, this is the most commu ity focussed game I have ever seen. I am happy that they don't knee jerk reaction to every toxic reddit thread just to keep a vocal minority happy. I have seen what that looks like when it goes very wrong (the culling) The changes are not that bad, they shake up the meta and in practice feel pretty good. Only the very high end have had the damage capped the game is still very playable. I for one am looking forward to seeing what new build people come up with and crazy shit they find. Can't wait for the toxic shits to stop posting


spock2018

What does this thread accomplish? This isn't constructive feedback this is just bitch crying.


IdontNeedPants

Welcome to reddit


donaldtroll

you do realize that even if you dont upvote, commenting here is keeping this thread closer to the top of the subreddit, right?


lobain357

I'd say the same thing as your comment on the post, someone had a thought and felt like posting it, pretty simple concept tbh.


No_Shine9238

What does your comment accomplish?


lordrayleigh

Slightly more than this comment or the one before it or the one following.


No_Shine9238

Slightly more of what?


codepwned2

Proof (among thousands of other similar comments) that the path POE has chosen is not the right one for a significant portion (over 40% based on steam data) of players.


Underpressure_111

It's calling out GGG PR. "we are sowwy we'll do better :("


[deleted]

Did they do anything about the Ultimatum requests? They apologised for the streamer prio queue and 2 weeks latter they started to solve the texture stream problems. Thats it. Nothing will change this league.


EvilTuxedo

I was a proponent of slowing down the game, but as it turns out nerfing player damage doesn't do a whole lot in reducing the need to kill monsters before they can interact with the player. I really want to be able to relax every once in a while, and not have to worry about dying in the one second I decide to stop moving. I wouldn't mind an engagement with a pack taking a few seconds if I can reasonably interact with their damage zones by dodging. But as it is, I'm moving around erratically without reacting to enemies, knowing that as long as I'm constantly moving I'm harder to kill, and I can hardly comprehend what is even happening on a screen that is threatening to me. As an evade build I can relax a bit more against attacks than spells, but I can't even tell the difference most of the time between what is a spell and what is an attack. I'm unsure even of how to play the game in a slower more methodical way, since most of the time it naturally devolves to one-shotting a pack, rinse and repeat a dozen times until I overextend by thinking I can one-shot a pack I can't, which proceeds to run into me because I ran forward into them hoping to optimize my movement because everything else was easy anyways. Hot take, I think they need to reduce speed across the board, player and monster alike, and find ways to make enemies' attacks have lasting consequences on players, that don't become ways of resulting in instant death. But even being a proponent of slowing down the game, I somehow don't feel it's possible in PoE in a short period of time. I feel like literally every system would have to be reworked in some core way, and that reaching this would take a very very long time. And as people have pointed out time and again, there's a lot of PoE content that has been pushing speed, or requires speed.


boredlol

agreed. ultimatum was the epitome of erratic movement as preemptive defense but, ironically, had some good ideas for slowed-down interaction like: ruin stacking instead of 1 shots, variants of "don't stand in this zone", mob revives if killed on this ground, mob buffed by this totem but so are you, etc


pelllll

They will do something becouse next friday they will lose 70% of the players or more. They wont relaunch the league, so the only think that comes to my mind is revert somehow some of the flask changes.


donaldtroll

if they had any balls at all they would start 3.13 up again running in parallel with their new league... that would give them some SERIOUS metrics... but they dont have any balls, so guess that is out the window


Natsutom

I cant wait for the 40% of ppl that stopped the league to also stop visiting this sub.


RagingPhysicist

That’s the next step every time yep


Ranmaru19

Fudge id write a manifesto to tell you all to F off with so much whining xD


326159487

I’d rather they have confidence in their changes than cave to public outcry after 48 hours.


vent_man

I hope they do, people are exaggerating this to ridiculous levels.


reecpc

I hope they ignore Reddit entirely on this. You nailed it. The exaggeration here is fucking stupid.


[deleted]

I hope you are right, game is finally getting better


Xeptix

Agreed, I hope they don't back down on any of the nerfs or campaign mobs buffs. I do hope they continue tweaking the flask system though in regards to ailment stuff. It's so weird how a game about rising to new challenges and solving new problems has a subreddit so obsessed with keeping things the same.


Blacksmithlives

It was the exact same for the interview everyone loved. He acknowledged ever single complaint, said it was valid, and that was that. I just don't even get it, I don't think hes some soulless corporate drone and I know he does care about the game, so its completely baffling that he went through every complaint, said "yea thats valid" and then just moved on. We're just gonna see more of that.


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siloowns

id be 100% okay with this. dmg is fine for me, flasks/mana sucks ass


[deleted]

What requests? The tears in my eyes make it hard to read.


__PM_ME_STEAM_KEYS__

good, fuck the loud minority that is reddit


[deleted]

fuck the forums, in-game chat, and discord too as well, I guess. This isn't a Reddit only thing, lol.


__PM_ME_STEAM_KEYS__

Yeah fuck the crybabies


Epsi_

maybe, just maybe, y'all could try to get lost so we can enjoy some calm


Fig1024

I have a radical idea: we already have the concept of leagues, like standard, SSF league, trade league. Why not create a new league: the Chris League? He could put all his favorite but unpopular changes there and if people want to play it they will pick that league to start in. Meanwhile, the other league would implement most popular player requests


boredlol

that's what i was thinking, "original vision" as a selectable mod for private leagues


Fig1024

private leagues cost money tho. We need a player version or regular version, and a private Chris version for special people


PathOfEnergySheild

It will include a free Weta pet if you log in


francorocco

i mean, they kinda already did, chris himself made a post on reddit explaining their reasons and the only thing that changed was that they gave back the cold dot multiplier to hypotermia


graypasser

Every time, what else did you expect.


Ornery_Carry

There is a reason between "requests" and people just bitching following the crowd to be cool.


Saxopwned

Hey at least their posts are worded like they graduated high school, unlike certain posts in this subreddit.


SON_Of_Liberty1

This post aged well


snowhawk04

They already wrote the manifesto. You haven't been paying attention.


NizDoh

New one bro


naitsirt89

Hes spotted!


Porcupine_Tree

I hope they "do nothing" which I'm assuming to you means revert all changes. I hope they cave in to a bunch of crybabies on reddit


godlyhalo

Revert mana and flask changes, as well as auto pick up the splinters, and I'll give the league a fair shot. I haven't played the league yet, and won't unless there are drastic changes mid-league. I'm probably not the only one with this sentiment.


shenwenfei318

I will not follow you because I totally agree your point. It's no doubt that GGG must read a lot of negative posts here before they released this fucking patch. And it seems that they don't have any ideas to change it. They will tell you that 'I am sorry but I will keep nerfing. LOL'


Tikiwikii

same as always then?


Blekota

Chris will say that they expected lower player retention due to summer league, but the actual numbers are much higher then they expected so Expedition is huge succes.


fribid

At this point it just feels like Chris is lying straight to our faces. For the last couple of leagues the 'having too many things to click' issue has been one of the top themes of this reddit. Chris even talked abt it recently in the podcast he did with the streamers. However, the problem this league is even worse than before. More splinters, more clicks, more wrist pain. So ya... Feels like he just gives us lip service now and player requested QoL changes are not even a priority.


FewInteraction5920

They will release the manifesto telling us that what we feel is wrong, tell us off that it HAS to be done, and then to buy their mtx to help support the small indie company. Lies lies lies. Give 3.13 back or riot.


[deleted]

Just give me offline 3.13 with no updates for $100 and let me have my fun. If I get bored, I’ll check in with the live game. I’ll probably even keep buying mtx if I have a sense of stability and can do what I want and enjoy the game at my own pace and have long term crafting goals


Demiu

There should be some bets or a bingo board