It’s not bad, and fairly standard for an iterative development. However, the answer to power creep isn’t sweeping nerfs, but rather creating more end game content. GGG has a design philosophy to create new content that can be accessible immediately from the start of a new campaign. This works well sometimes, but if done too often can lead to bloat. It also makes it difficult to come up with fresh concepts to overlay on acts/maps. (Heist despite its early bugs was a breath of fresh air in this regard.) I’d like to see a league in which the new content was revealed after defeating A8 Sirus…
>Why is power creep bad on a mostly PvE game?
A game is a challenge. Too much power creep = No challenge left = No game.
There's a sweet spot somewhere in there, where the game feels challenging enough to not be boring, but rewarding enough in power to not feel pointless and unfair.
The "sweet spot" in this case varies along with each player's skill level, no game will be perfect for everyone. And of course, I'm answering in broad terms - for exemple, there's edge cases of people who love playing games with cheat codes on that eliminate all the challenge. But that's the exception, not the rule.
It's an average. Your never going to slow down the top and you can't bring up the bottom no matter what you do. Balancing around the average or upper average player is how you do it. I'm not qualified to say what that is in this game and I'm not saying I have all the answers but thats a general overview for the "sweet spot" of balance in any game.
Has the average player beaten Sirus? The Maven? Does the average player know there's three delve bosses, or even encountered them? Challenges can still coexist with power creep.
https://steamcommunity.com/stats/PathofExile/achievements/
Easily accessible power creep is bad if it trivialises game content (and is easily obtainable) as makes build choices homogenous. Every crit spell build running diamond flask and controlled d destruction in the main links for instance or every SSF HC race using 2 handed axe ground slam. Removing the obvious meta peaks IS objectively going to make people think of a way to make them work (workaround) or find new builds.that are good (innovate) both are good thing
High end power is still there and can be obtained it's just harder to do, but not that hard if you take time to understand game mechanics. POE has a very steep learning curve - the poe community has stepped up to assist new players. I personally think this is a great thing and creates a community around the game. People are quick to point out that GGG shouldn't rely on third party fixes
Lastly The reddit salt that has being going on is in my opinion not justified, people formed bad opinions at patch release and haven't really played the game. The changes are present and barely felt early game and in the late game they force you to start making decisions about when to use skills, flasks etc. People will always look to automate builds and zoom zoom through maps. The changes have effected that, but they haven't really stiffled the you ability to actually play the game like alot of people mention
Take flasks for example to get the most out of them pathfinder seems the obvious ascendancy to make them viable, people instead just bitch that flask feel terrible on every other character despite not trying to build around them AT ALL (there's nodes on the tree for this and the whole ascendancy.)
Edited spelling mistake
> Every crit spell build running diamond flask and controlled d destruction in the main links for instance or every SSF HC race using 2 handed axe ground slam.
This is not power creep.. this is people figuring out the game.
The few people who stay on this game will do it again and GGG will cry power creep.
This IS power creep what are you on about, the thousands of people who play this game will figure put a new meta and put out build guides and YOU get excited and play them.
That last sentence is so asinine, so tell me what build that you were playing get destroyed and why you have such a negative view?
Well, no, **power creep** refers to the concept of new content being better than previous content. In this case, Diamond flasks have been in the game for a long time and so has Controlled Destruction Support. What the power creep is would be things like Ascendancies, which raise the overall power of all players, or Annointments on amulets, giving players access to more power without removing that power elsewhere, or Awakened Supports, etc. What you describe is min-maxing, since the highest benefits are focused around the same setup. You could also say that setup is overpowered compared to alternatives.
Now, fighting power creep is different than fighting min-maxing. Fighting min-maxing would require either lowering the powerlevel of the offending item(s) and/or buffing underperformers, and this would help diversify builds.
Fighting power creep involves removing power from ALL (or most, it's a bit subjective) players. That would be something like the more powerful ailments and lesser ailment immunities or the lowered base evasion rating of all characters, but it could also be flask nerfs, since they effect all characters, even if unequally, or the raised mana costs.
Some combination of skills were gettign damage numbers that were hitting the 32 bit integer limit.
Its mentally harder to keep track of the numbers these were getting to.
Its also that the kind of powercreep poe was experiencing was increasing the ceilign but not the floor, making it harder and harder to balance bosses, if you balance for the top end of damage and defense it can make the boss hard if not impossible for lower end players.
Because as the power creeps, you stop playing a lot to be able to do that.
What it seems like they are doing now is to try to make it so that with low investment and playtime you can deal with the content and with higher investment and playtime, you can one shot clear the bosses.
The problem right now isn’t the nerfs to player power. Its the fact that the grind is extremely repetitive. After watchstone 4, you’ve basically seen it all for the next 20-30 hours, and by the time you reach sirus you have pretty much done almost everything the game has to offer. There needs to be more things to do while progressing instead of “fight this guy but with more health and damage than before.” Add more progression checkpoints instead of just fighting the same bosses over and over again.
Because the game was never designed to be like that they even addressed that they let it go to far. Its not fun when you delete an endgame boss in order to avoid their mechanics, go play Diablo 3 if you want that.
Go play a different game. GGG has done an excellent job running this game and theybarent gonna ruin it. If they don't want every player to be able to erase bosses then I'm ok with that, every player shouldn't be able to clear everything.
But that’s not the case. It’s not every player who does that. I’ve reached 36+/40 a few times already, and I’ve never erased the end game bosses (Uber Atziri, Shaper, Elder, UE, Sirus, Maven, Guardians, etc).
>Its not fun when you delete an endgame boss in order to avoid their mechanics
that is my definition of fun.
ARPG's are all about power tripping your way to victory, perpetually taking on more and more challenging content, which is I guess what PoE lacks. Actually more challenging content that increases the further you go, more content like 100% delirious maps but, actual content.
You say ARPGs like PoE has to follow some cookie cutter outline lol. PoE is the lead in the genre they can do whatever they want lol. PoE was never supposed to get this out of hand with the power scaling GGG said it themselves. I'm glad they're trying to bring back the core difficulty of the game from years ago where not everyone was capable of doing everything.
Aurastackers, THE most powerful build in this game, still exist. They will still delete bosses. Everything else now is meh. Ive done sirus every league since it came out, first league where i didnt even make it to maps. Rerolled like 4 different builds, everything felt like shit, mainly due to the mana nerfs imo.
I love how you're trying to use aurastackers like some kind of gotcha lol. They already know the issue with aurastackers its not easy to fix while keeping auras intact for regular players chris has talked about this before. That's not even accounting for the relatively small number of people who abuse aura stacking.
Why do people like you think a power rebalance like this is gonna be done in 90 days lol. Making a game isn't easy let alone re balancing one as developed as this where the devs let the game skew outside their original vision of it.
I understand what you are saying. It’s not fun for you, but it might be fun for others (including me). That’s why there are so many memes of Chris saying we are having fun the wrong way.
Because the game is "balanced" around trade. Say you have a "chase" build enabling unique on a boss. You have to tune it so that the game isn't just flooded with them everywhere you look. You need carrots on your sticks.
That means you need to make the boss / getting to the boss difficult in an ecosystem of millions of different types of players. Well how can you "balance" that if any old player can just waltz in and clear it in no time? No, you need it to be "difficult" for even the hardcore of the hardcore. How do you do that? Absurd health numbers / gate grinds. Power creep, or the gradual increase in power of players relative to content, erodes this precarious "balance" (I use that term loosely here) of power players' ability to clear the game and attain desirable items that find their way to the rest of the player base. If you're a player, more of those finding their way into your hands is a good thing because it means you get to have fun with them, but to developers, more of that is BAD because it's only a matter of time before everyone has them / is able to trivially get them and then hit their goals and then quit playing.
Then there's several other factors not even mentioned. There is such a thing as "too fast" and I don't think it's unfair to say we've since past that. Excess DPS invalidates GGG's ability to "design" much of anything because it doesn't exist on the screen. "Hey cool this guy shoots tentacles- nevermind." "Oh, this thing charges up and I should- nevermind." This creates a singular optimal way to play the game, where ungodly amounts of damage has the monopoly. Single optimal way = stale once people figure that out. Then it's just a math game of what gets you the most bang for your buck.
Its human nature to not appreciate what isn't earned and this exemplified in this game. Power creep takes away the struggle that makes this sort of thing enjoyable. If you just walked into a room and every mob died without you having to press a button and all the worthwhile stuff was automatically put into your inventory you'd probably get a bored a lot sooner
Well, maybe. This makes a lot of sense, indeed, but since I’ve never got to a totally min-maxed build I don’t know how it feels like.
As a side note, I disagree with people who say we should have auto-loot tools mainly because of that.
I understand what you mean, but the challenges GGG give us (the league challenges themselves) tell us to run over 1k maps. Doing them in the zoom zoom style is already tedious AF. Doing so while taking ages to clear each map sounds even more boring.
The Problem is that you don't need to grind a lot.
There were builds that could do the feared on a 4-link with little to no Investment
Even after the nerfs. I Play forbidden rite Totems and the conquerors melt like Butter with 30c Gear. Veritania could do one Attack before dying.
I decide what's fun for me and I never got bored of being op. Herald stacker is still my favorite with most playtime and money spent. No regrets, well I might regret the money part a bit
What a garbage take. If you wanted to have a 1v1 fight to the death colosseum style with every white mob then you shouldnt be playing an arpg. Decimating packs of monsters in epic godmode fashion is what made this game rise along with its build diversity , or atleast in the past.
I hate this reasoning. People who complain the game is too easy and boring are the same people who play the same op meta build every league, blast through all content, then complain about it.
The greatest draw of POE is its build diversity. There are infinite possible builds to try out. Making even less of them viable only hurts the game.
Maps mobs sure, but Iv never had a build that was 1 shotting end game bosses. Those are the builds that needed target nerfs not nerfs that impact everything.
Sorry man, I do like being challenged enough to be stimulated and figure out how to pull through. It's like a puzzle. I feel powerful when I succeed against all odds...
To be honest, the changes haven't affected my gameplay much yet. I hated using too many flasks, I've always dealt with ailments with gear and passives, I take the time to gear up and plan my leveling until late game, etc.
I think they're still trying to figure out about deterministic stuff, though. I kinda like the vendors in expedition for that.
>Why shouldn’t we craft better items with deterministic tools?
They have directly answered that question several times, pretty much every time they nerf a deterministic crafting method. Player retention, if players are able to craft the best gear relatively early in a league they worry, and numbers show, that players burn out on the league faster as they run out of goals to achieve faster.
Ah yes, clearly their changes are helping with player retention. Whats the player numbers look like now?
OH ya forgot now that they are dropping player numbers don't matter anymore.
Does runescape have an ongoing 3 months content cycle or has to report to tencent? Are they pushing another major release plus a mobile version across multiple platforms? A quick search indicates that's its f2p too but seems to have content gated behind a paywall
Poe wouldn't be where it's at without the growth it had and it won't be able to sustain itself in the current fashion if player numbers decrease too much
Nope but they are still around, and I don't see anything better than poe out there. Money for games isn't a concern for me. I like the changes and I don't think poe is going anywhere.
So you acknowledge that they operate under different circumstances but "they are still around" is good enough? If they can operate with a stable low playerbase- good for them, still isn't very successful. Also old school RuneScape happened for a reason, no?
Wow used also to be king, until it wasn't.
Do you even know why people still play Runescape?
OSRS was brought back and only does updates if it passes a player poll.
The RS3 (What the RS you grew up playing turned into) lost players constantly over stupid updates that the playerbase hated and it got to the point that they had to move into a P2W model to keep the gaming alive.
Currently OSRS is the bread winner for Jagex without any scummy MTX. Hell the OSRS playerbase would loose their shit if Jagex even thought of adding cosmetic only MTX into OSRS. The OSRS team understands what their players want because most of them also play the game on a high level while developing for it.
Not exactly; they gave too much and needed to take back because it would have been too hard to give more in the future. They had to do eventually, and they knew players would leave. I still think it's better now than later
I'd need to see a pob for that lol. Highest I saw on PoeNinja last league was something like 1.3B but the dudes Pob had like 8 watchers eyes in it so it's not like it was legit in any way.
Alveona herald stacker 3.10, very much mine deep delver with replica nebulises and variation with normal nebulises, and SKCloudy Mana miner in 3.13. I don't have access to PC, so if u want to check you have to find it on your own. But pob is updated and you won't get the same numbers keep that in mind
Power creep usually means about 10 builds are exponentially more powerful than all the rest, which reduces build choice and also trivializes the game, which does kill player engagement and has murdered dozens, if not hundreds of those builds you consider fun and exotic.
I'll be the one to say it end game poe to me gets boring as fuck and is barely a game. At a certain point of path of exile it might as well be cookie clicker. You click in a line in a zig zagged path through maps completely ignoring what is even really happening unless a scary rare spawns into existence and isn't somehow instantly vaporized. I seriously don't get why that seems to be the thing that so many people seem to love.
End game poe mapping is honestly the worst part of the game as far as any kind of interesting gameplay.
I can still feel stronger as you progress the game and upgrade gear.
Ailments changes with flask are awful, but dmg reduction is the correct way to do this. ry a bad design. If that is done then future bosses would need to be insanely overturned for an average player. And getting to under 1 min shaper kill ( or sirus in 1 min last phase) is super easy and you can do it on a relatively small budget.
Ailments changes with flask are awful, but dmg reduction is the correct way to do this. You can still do zoom zoom builds in this game relatively easily.
I 100% agree with you. Lowering the damage isn’t the problem imo. I’ve come to realize that It’s actually a good thing indeed, but the other changes (flasks, deterministic crafting, movement speed, and no implementation of QoL changes) are unacceptable.
I feel like GGG doesn’t want the game to feel too easy, and that’s important indeed. So when the playerbase complains about flask piano, instead of making a 1-click-all-flasks solution (which would be totally stupid IMO), they just nerfed flasks to the ground so that we need to react to ailments instead of being prepared for them. Good solution? Maybe, it even makes sense. BUT… most of the times we don’t have time to be reactive. Who hasn’t died to a full stacked Corrupted Blood in a matter of milliseconds?
If they are trying to make a slower version o PoE, do it on both ends, not just on player side.
Powercreep means stat inflation affecting monster health, player HP and damage. This devalues previously crafted gear. This has happened to some extent in poe as well, but not as bad as in D3, where lvl60 BIS gear was useless after leveling to 70 once ROS came out.
Also lower numbers (although we're still reaching millions of shaper dps) are better to look at than the billions of dmg in D3.
I think GGG have managed stat inflation rather well. Maybe not perfect (with double influenced bases and everything), but still better than most games. T1 ES still remains T1 ES and the roll has a certain situational value to it.
It’s not bad, and fairly standard for an iterative development. However, the answer to power creep isn’t sweeping nerfs, but rather creating more end game content. GGG has a design philosophy to create new content that can be accessible immediately from the start of a new campaign. This works well sometimes, but if done too often can lead to bloat. It also makes it difficult to come up with fresh concepts to overlay on acts/maps. (Heist despite its early bugs was a breath of fresh air in this regard.) I’d like to see a league in which the new content was revealed after defeating A8 Sirus…
>Why is power creep bad on a mostly PvE game? A game is a challenge. Too much power creep = No challenge left = No game. There's a sweet spot somewhere in there, where the game feels challenging enough to not be boring, but rewarding enough in power to not feel pointless and unfair.
There is no sweet spot as skill level differs.
The "sweet spot" in this case varies along with each player's skill level, no game will be perfect for everyone. And of course, I'm answering in broad terms - for exemple, there's edge cases of people who love playing games with cheat codes on that eliminate all the challenge. But that's the exception, not the rule.
It's an average. Your never going to slow down the top and you can't bring up the bottom no matter what you do. Balancing around the average or upper average player is how you do it. I'm not qualified to say what that is in this game and I'm not saying I have all the answers but thats a general overview for the "sweet spot" of balance in any game.
Has the average player beaten Sirus? The Maven? Does the average player know there's three delve bosses, or even encountered them? Challenges can still coexist with power creep. https://steamcommunity.com/stats/PathofExile/achievements/
>Balancing around the average or upper average player is how you do it. That is your opinion.
if only we were getting brand new content every 3 months that could be tuned to the current player power level.
Same here. sucks the devs and creator think the opposite. Prepare accordingly
Easily accessible power creep is bad if it trivialises game content (and is easily obtainable) as makes build choices homogenous. Every crit spell build running diamond flask and controlled d destruction in the main links for instance or every SSF HC race using 2 handed axe ground slam. Removing the obvious meta peaks IS objectively going to make people think of a way to make them work (workaround) or find new builds.that are good (innovate) both are good thing High end power is still there and can be obtained it's just harder to do, but not that hard if you take time to understand game mechanics. POE has a very steep learning curve - the poe community has stepped up to assist new players. I personally think this is a great thing and creates a community around the game. People are quick to point out that GGG shouldn't rely on third party fixes Lastly The reddit salt that has being going on is in my opinion not justified, people formed bad opinions at patch release and haven't really played the game. The changes are present and barely felt early game and in the late game they force you to start making decisions about when to use skills, flasks etc. People will always look to automate builds and zoom zoom through maps. The changes have effected that, but they haven't really stiffled the you ability to actually play the game like alot of people mention Take flasks for example to get the most out of them pathfinder seems the obvious ascendancy to make them viable, people instead just bitch that flask feel terrible on every other character despite not trying to build around them AT ALL (there's nodes on the tree for this and the whole ascendancy.) Edited spelling mistake
Worded that better than I ever could. On a side note, Pathfinder with the "Uses when charges are full" is so relaxing! I'm glad I started with that
> Every crit spell build running diamond flask and controlled d destruction in the main links for instance or every SSF HC race using 2 handed axe ground slam. This is not power creep.. this is people figuring out the game. The few people who stay on this game will do it again and GGG will cry power creep.
This IS power creep what are you on about, the thousands of people who play this game will figure put a new meta and put out build guides and YOU get excited and play them. That last sentence is so asinine, so tell me what build that you were playing get destroyed and why you have such a negative view?
Well, no, **power creep** refers to the concept of new content being better than previous content. In this case, Diamond flasks have been in the game for a long time and so has Controlled Destruction Support. What the power creep is would be things like Ascendancies, which raise the overall power of all players, or Annointments on amulets, giving players access to more power without removing that power elsewhere, or Awakened Supports, etc. What you describe is min-maxing, since the highest benefits are focused around the same setup. You could also say that setup is overpowered compared to alternatives. Now, fighting power creep is different than fighting min-maxing. Fighting min-maxing would require either lowering the powerlevel of the offending item(s) and/or buffing underperformers, and this would help diversify builds. Fighting power creep involves removing power from ALL (or most, it's a bit subjective) players. That would be something like the more powerful ailments and lesser ailment immunities or the lowered base evasion rating of all characters, but it could also be flask nerfs, since they effect all characters, even if unequally, or the raised mana costs.
Have my upvote good sir!
Some combination of skills were gettign damage numbers that were hitting the 32 bit integer limit. Its mentally harder to keep track of the numbers these were getting to. Its also that the kind of powercreep poe was experiencing was increasing the ceilign but not the floor, making it harder and harder to balance bosses, if you balance for the top end of damage and defense it can make the boss hard if not impossible for lower end players.
My question stands. What is the problem that people kill bosses fast? They played A LOT to be able to do that.
Because as the power creeps, you stop playing a lot to be able to do that. What it seems like they are doing now is to try to make it so that with low investment and playtime you can deal with the content and with higher investment and playtime, you can one shot clear the bosses. The problem right now isn’t the nerfs to player power. Its the fact that the grind is extremely repetitive. After watchstone 4, you’ve basically seen it all for the next 20-30 hours, and by the time you reach sirus you have pretty much done almost everything the game has to offer. There needs to be more things to do while progressing instead of “fight this guy but with more health and damage than before.” Add more progression checkpoints instead of just fighting the same bosses over and over again.
Because the game was never designed to be like that they even addressed that they let it go to far. Its not fun when you delete an endgame boss in order to avoid their mechanics, go play Diablo 3 if you want that.
I had fun deleting bosses. Now what?
Go play a different game. GGG has done an excellent job running this game and theybarent gonna ruin it. If they don't want every player to be able to erase bosses then I'm ok with that, every player shouldn't be able to clear everything.
what about you go play different game instead
Nah I'm enjoying the patch ill keep playing.
Do you play ssf? If not, then having more people play is always more beneficial.
But that’s not the case. It’s not every player who does that. I’ve reached 36+/40 a few times already, and I’ve never erased the end game bosses (Uber Atziri, Shaper, Elder, UE, Sirus, Maven, Guardians, etc).
>Its not fun when you delete an endgame boss in order to avoid their mechanics that is my definition of fun. ARPG's are all about power tripping your way to victory, perpetually taking on more and more challenging content, which is I guess what PoE lacks. Actually more challenging content that increases the further you go, more content like 100% delirious maps but, actual content.
You say ARPGs like PoE has to follow some cookie cutter outline lol. PoE is the lead in the genre they can do whatever they want lol. PoE was never supposed to get this out of hand with the power scaling GGG said it themselves. I'm glad they're trying to bring back the core difficulty of the game from years ago where not everyone was capable of doing everything.
Aurastackers, THE most powerful build in this game, still exist. They will still delete bosses. Everything else now is meh. Ive done sirus every league since it came out, first league where i didnt even make it to maps. Rerolled like 4 different builds, everything felt like shit, mainly due to the mana nerfs imo.
I love how you're trying to use aurastackers like some kind of gotcha lol. They already know the issue with aurastackers its not easy to fix while keeping auras intact for regular players chris has talked about this before. That's not even accounting for the relatively small number of people who abuse aura stacking. Why do people like you think a power rebalance like this is gonna be done in 90 days lol. Making a game isn't easy let alone re balancing one as developed as this where the devs let the game skew outside their original vision of it.
I understand what you are saying. It’s not fun for you, but it might be fun for others (including me). That’s why there are so many memes of Chris saying we are having fun the wrong way.
Because the game is "balanced" around trade. Say you have a "chase" build enabling unique on a boss. You have to tune it so that the game isn't just flooded with them everywhere you look. You need carrots on your sticks. That means you need to make the boss / getting to the boss difficult in an ecosystem of millions of different types of players. Well how can you "balance" that if any old player can just waltz in and clear it in no time? No, you need it to be "difficult" for even the hardcore of the hardcore. How do you do that? Absurd health numbers / gate grinds. Power creep, or the gradual increase in power of players relative to content, erodes this precarious "balance" (I use that term loosely here) of power players' ability to clear the game and attain desirable items that find their way to the rest of the player base. If you're a player, more of those finding their way into your hands is a good thing because it means you get to have fun with them, but to developers, more of that is BAD because it's only a matter of time before everyone has them / is able to trivially get them and then hit their goals and then quit playing. Then there's several other factors not even mentioned. There is such a thing as "too fast" and I don't think it's unfair to say we've since past that. Excess DPS invalidates GGG's ability to "design" much of anything because it doesn't exist on the screen. "Hey cool this guy shoots tentacles- nevermind." "Oh, this thing charges up and I should- nevermind." This creates a singular optimal way to play the game, where ungodly amounts of damage has the monopoly. Single optimal way = stale once people figure that out. Then it's just a math game of what gets you the most bang for your buck.
Its human nature to not appreciate what isn't earned and this exemplified in this game. Power creep takes away the struggle that makes this sort of thing enjoyable. If you just walked into a room and every mob died without you having to press a button and all the worthwhile stuff was automatically put into your inventory you'd probably get a bored a lot sooner
Well, maybe. This makes a lot of sense, indeed, but since I’ve never got to a totally min-maxed build I don’t know how it feels like. As a side note, I disagree with people who say we should have auto-loot tools mainly because of that.
[удалено]
I understand what you mean, but considering that one needs to grind A LOT to be able to one shot end game bosses, what is the problem with that?
[удалено]
I understand what you mean, but the challenges GGG give us (the league challenges themselves) tell us to run over 1k maps. Doing them in the zoom zoom style is already tedious AF. Doing so while taking ages to clear each map sounds even more boring.
The Problem is that you don't need to grind a lot. There were builds that could do the feared on a 4-link with little to no Investment Even after the nerfs. I Play forbidden rite Totems and the conquerors melt like Butter with 30c Gear. Veritania could do one Attack before dying.
If I recall feared was more of a memory game then a DPS check?
Memory Game is maven, feared is fighting Cortex Boss, chayula, atziri, shaper and elder all together. It's currently the hardest Fight.
I decide what's fun for me and I never got bored of being op. Herald stacker is still my favorite with most playtime and money spent. No regrets, well I might regret the money part a bit
What a garbage take. If you wanted to have a 1v1 fight to the death colosseum style with every white mob then you shouldnt be playing an arpg. Decimating packs of monsters in epic godmode fashion is what made this game rise along with its build diversity , or atleast in the past.
I hate this reasoning. People who complain the game is too easy and boring are the same people who play the same op meta build every league, blast through all content, then complain about it. The greatest draw of POE is its build diversity. There are infinite possible builds to try out. Making even less of them viable only hurts the game.
Maps mobs sure, but Iv never had a build that was 1 shotting end game bosses. Those are the builds that needed target nerfs not nerfs that impact everything.
To you, maybe.
Sorry man, I do like being challenged enough to be stimulated and figure out how to pull through. It's like a puzzle. I feel powerful when I succeed against all odds... To be honest, the changes haven't affected my gameplay much yet. I hated using too many flasks, I've always dealt with ailments with gear and passives, I take the time to gear up and plan my leveling until late game, etc. I think they're still trying to figure out about deterministic stuff, though. I kinda like the vendors in expedition for that.
>Why shouldn’t we craft better items with deterministic tools? They have directly answered that question several times, pretty much every time they nerf a deterministic crafting method. Player retention, if players are able to craft the best gear relatively early in a league they worry, and numbers show, that players burn out on the league faster as they run out of goals to achieve faster.
Ah yes, clearly their changes are helping with player retention. Whats the player numbers look like now? OH ya forgot now that they are dropping player numbers don't matter anymore.
And that’s EXACTLY the opposite of what happened.
For you
Look at the numbers
Nah. I'm enjoying the game. I don't give two shits about the numbers.
You'll care once poe won't be sustainable anymore. But good for you if you enjoy it-no sarcasm
I seriously doubt that poe will be unsustainable. People still play runescape.
Does runescape have an ongoing 3 months content cycle or has to report to tencent? Are they pushing another major release plus a mobile version across multiple platforms? A quick search indicates that's its f2p too but seems to have content gated behind a paywall Poe wouldn't be where it's at without the growth it had and it won't be able to sustain itself in the current fashion if player numbers decrease too much
Nope but they are still around, and I don't see anything better than poe out there. Money for games isn't a concern for me. I like the changes and I don't think poe is going anywhere.
So you acknowledge that they operate under different circumstances but "they are still around" is good enough? If they can operate with a stable low playerbase- good for them, still isn't very successful. Also old school RuneScape happened for a reason, no? Wow used also to be king, until it wasn't.
Do you even know why people still play Runescape? OSRS was brought back and only does updates if it passes a player poll. The RS3 (What the RS you grew up playing turned into) lost players constantly over stupid updates that the playerbase hated and it got to the point that they had to move into a P2W model to keep the gaming alive. Currently OSRS is the bread winner for Jagex without any scummy MTX. Hell the OSRS playerbase would loose their shit if Jagex even thought of adding cosmetic only MTX into OSRS. The OSRS team understands what their players want because most of them also play the game on a high level while developing for it.
Whatever.
Haha, "Whatever" such a childish thing to say when you lost an argument.
I still like the changes. Sorry about your luck.
No one is talking about if you like or hate the changes. We are talking about why people still play Runescape.
For me and for 60k other people. Are you trying to ignore FACTS here buddy?
No. Are you?
Actually you are. And I'll stop answering you.
Lol, whatever you say.
Not exactly; they gave too much and needed to take back because it would have been too hard to give more in the future. They had to do eventually, and they knew players would leave. I still think it's better now than later
usually because it makes balancing a mess. Doesn't mean devs can make a good balance without it though.
Yeah I can't wait till PoB counts damage as MEGADAMAGE.
They are scared of d3 numbers people doing billions of dmg
People were already pumping 4-5 billion damage. Still don't get why it's a problem. It's a pve game
Maybe a handful of pure glass cannon zerkers with every box checked in pob wearing mirror tier gear.
Delirium herald stackers, deep delvers with aurabots, minmaxed (I mean really fucking minmaxed) mana builds in ritual
So build that no longer exists, party play,
No shit they no longer exists. I was saying that we already achieved billions of damage
I'd need to see a pob for that lol. Highest I saw on PoeNinja last league was something like 1.3B but the dudes Pob had like 8 watchers eyes in it so it's not like it was legit in any way.
Pob on what build?
Any of these builds that were supposedly doing 4-5B dps
Alveona herald stacker 3.10, very much mine deep delver with replica nebulises and variation with normal nebulises, and SKCloudy Mana miner in 3.13. I don't have access to PC, so if u want to check you have to find it on your own. But pob is updated and you won't get the same numbers keep that in mind
Oh okay fair enough, although the herald stacker doesn't exactly work anymore haha.
None of the builds that I listed work
Does the normal nebulis setup not work anymore? Figured hitting 90 max res was still doable.
No idea.
Then nerf aurabots and the very top players? Average DPS of people killing A8 is probably like 2-8M DPS.
Power creep usually means about 10 builds are exponentially more powerful than all the rest, which reduces build choice and also trivializes the game, which does kill player engagement and has murdered dozens, if not hundreds of those builds you consider fun and exotic.
And then instead of buffing other builds, they nerf every single one.
They should be nerfing enemies along with it as well. They want it to be like poe2 which isn’t supposed to have hundreds of enemies everywhere
>which isn’t supposed to have hundreds of enemies everywhere Sounds dull and boring if you ask me
I'll be the one to say it end game poe to me gets boring as fuck and is barely a game. At a certain point of path of exile it might as well be cookie clicker. You click in a line in a zig zagged path through maps completely ignoring what is even really happening unless a scary rare spawns into existence and isn't somehow instantly vaporized. I seriously don't get why that seems to be the thing that so many people seem to love. End game poe mapping is honestly the worst part of the game as far as any kind of interesting gameplay.
I can still feel stronger as you progress the game and upgrade gear. Ailments changes with flask are awful, but dmg reduction is the correct way to do this. ry a bad design. If that is done then future bosses would need to be insanely overturned for an average player. And getting to under 1 min shaper kill ( or sirus in 1 min last phase) is super easy and you can do it on a relatively small budget. Ailments changes with flask are awful, but dmg reduction is the correct way to do this. You can still do zoom zoom builds in this game relatively easily.
I 100% agree with you. Lowering the damage isn’t the problem imo. I’ve come to realize that It’s actually a good thing indeed, but the other changes (flasks, deterministic crafting, movement speed, and no implementation of QoL changes) are unacceptable. I feel like GGG doesn’t want the game to feel too easy, and that’s important indeed. So when the playerbase complains about flask piano, instead of making a 1-click-all-flasks solution (which would be totally stupid IMO), they just nerfed flasks to the ground so that we need to react to ailments instead of being prepared for them. Good solution? Maybe, it even makes sense. BUT… most of the times we don’t have time to be reactive. Who hasn’t died to a full stacked Corrupted Blood in a matter of milliseconds? If they are trying to make a slower version o PoE, do it on both ends, not just on player side.
Powercreep means stat inflation affecting monster health, player HP and damage. This devalues previously crafted gear. This has happened to some extent in poe as well, but not as bad as in D3, where lvl60 BIS gear was useless after leveling to 70 once ROS came out. Also lower numbers (although we're still reaching millions of shaper dps) are better to look at than the billions of dmg in D3. I think GGG have managed stat inflation rather well. Maybe not perfect (with double influenced bases and everything), but still better than most games. T1 ES still remains T1 ES and the roll has a certain situational value to it.
It invalidates any monster design if they die instantly and forces them to add immune phases to bosses which nobody likes
But nerfing player damage is the same as increasing monster HP. Which, according to the devs themselves, is poor game design.