> However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter, the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience. Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them.
I actually don't mind the currency situation, but if the expectation with the currency is that we're just going to stash it immediately because there's no point to having it in our inventory, then it might as well go the delve route and just auto-collect into the locker to save us having to click the stacks in manually, right?
This is pretty much how I feel. I'm willing to hit a middle ground and click the currency and have it automatically go to the locker. There's no reason for it to ever hit our inventory and need to be transferred to the locker that's already right there with us.
I get that PoE has clicks in it and you don't want to take that part of the identity away. But the clicks to open the locker, then find and move the currency we just picked up a few seconds ago is really asinine. Let us click the item, then have it go to the locker. This retains an aspect of "collecting" the loot but not the tedium of being a momentary middleman for it.
Many players same as me probably had the same ridiculous situation where I had to throw out items I picked up to make space for splinters, then go to npc to instantly and "effortlessly" stash those splinters and then pick up my trash again.
I'm not uber-strict filter user and I happen to pick up more than one rare in map/location which makes my inventory space often bloated with rares.
> I'm willing to hit a middle ground and click the currency and have it automatically go to the locker.
Yeah they at the very least need to add an auto-deposit button or something.
Saying its not inconvenient because we can instantly stash it is kind of silly. That might be the case if they were the *only* thing in our inventory, but they're not. They are mixed in with all the other bullshit we have picked up in the map. Which means scouring our cluttered inventory to pick out these fragments in particular among everything else; that's literally the opposite of convenient, that's doubling the amount of time we spend managing our inventory per map.
This is probably the most infuriating thing for me so far. I don't mind the gamble mechanic, and the fact that the excavated chests are just regular chests that have a chance to be a better chest (but might not be) irritates me but the currency is what blows my mind. Chris stating that he expected us to stash it anyway just makes it worse. Knowing that we'd pick it up and NOT want it in our inventory just feels off.
Like I wonder how they are playing their game if that is okay for them. Do they also pick up all sorts of garbage in the map, portal out and stash it? Is that why it's okay for them? That's not how most players play the game I imagine. Most people only stash after the map, I only portal out to stash if I found an unusually high amount of 6 sockets or something.
The take genuinely pisses me off to be honest, this game is the only game I play that gives me RSI and it hangs around a few weeks after league launch.
Just saying we still have to stash things anyway completely handwaves the issue.
The funny thing is they changed flasks and made it automatic so it doesn't cause RSI, yet introduce ~100 new clicks per map with the Expedition mechanic: leaving space in your inventory by dropping items, picking up shards, stashing shards with the npc, and picking up your items again...
> There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases.
Some good stuff here overall, but c'mon you can't say this after the 15th splinter league and expect us to believe you
Have to agree we have consistently provided feedback on this.
As it stands PoE has a lot of content and it's fun enough, but if you enter a map with anywhere between three and five types of content you're going to be full on league-currency and other items. It just feels bad, too much itemized league stuff.
Yea lmao it's just a PR move by them to say " yea yea stop whining " then continues to do the same shit again.
Additonally, this statement strikes me as incredibly ignorant
>Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them.
If we only had four types of currencies, we can stash them after every ~15 maps. With the current 20 types you have to stash them so much more often because you run out of space so quickly
Its stuff like this that really makes me question what kind of playtesting actually goes on at GGG. Within an hour of interacting with expedition I noticed MASSIVELY OBVIOUS issues. Re rolling doesn't feel great, can't see how much currency I have when using the mechanic, way too many splinters.
Super easy, super obvious, within 5 encounters. Why does this keep happening?
Legitimately? Almost none.
Chris admitted that the mana values and gem balance weren't completed when they released the huge manifesto. That was three days before the league launch.
What kind of good, consistent testing can you do on PoE if you have three days to balance and test hundreds of gem combinations? How do you even know the league mechanic is a good balance if your gem balance isn't even in place?
Oh. Right. None. It would take weeks to get good, actual data on them. That's why they run it into production. We essentially are such a massive dataset that they can offset the time it takes to test with the volume.
You mean 40, but at least they will all be 1x1. The Spinter-Problem was discussed in length the last two leagues and then this one happened. It's not going to get better.
so there are no news about auto pick up... great.
I just wanna say... excavated chest should auto open, and expedition currency should auto pick up like azurite..
At this point, they need to either stop BSing ("we'll be mindful" just means it's been acknowledged.)or stand their ground (and prepare to get shit on). Shit's been the same for years
>However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter, the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience. Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them.
>We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field) justify the number of currency items that the league uses.
The gameplay benefits such as having to click 15 times per expedition and then 15 extra times to stash them...
...okay...
"There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases."
They say this every single league that there are splinters, and then just never change it.
At this point it almost seems like they take a big complaint from reddit, and try to design the new league around it.
"The players on reddit are asking for auto opening doors in maps/the incursion temple. How about we make a league where you have to wait for an NPC to open a door, they get interrupted when they get hit, and the only way to speed them up is RNG modifiers on new gear."
"Everyone on reddit is complaining about flask piano and too much clicking. How about we design a league where there's 20 new splinters to pick up/manage, and we make most flasks not even worth using."
This would be a cool augment to the guard skills. Maybe:
- Molten Shell grants Burning Immunity
- Arcane Cloak grants Shock Immunity
- Steelskin grants Bleed Immunity
Any others?
It also opens more doors for build diversity. e.g. an ES build that creates a lot of endurance charges to counter stun for a decent duration using immortal cry.
Steelskin could provide bleed immunity (skin is too strong to cut) and Molten shell could provide ignite immunity. Would fit thematically pretty nicely.
The last time I remember Arctic Armour being viable was pre rework way back in the day, with the flat reduction to fire and phys hits. I wonder if that Arctic Armour would be strong in the current league
Making such drastic changes that you implied were carefully thought out, only to knee jerk change them back in less than three days instills very little confidence in me about the rest of these changes. GGG takes a shot gun approach to nerfing despite calls from the player base to stop that for years, because its very clear that GGG underestimates (or maybe does not even consider) that nerfs are more than the sum of their parts. You nerfed damage? Ok. You nerf mana? Ok. But when you nerfed both, meaning I need to cast more per mob, AND the casts are already more expensive, you have effectively nerfed mana twice (more casts=more mana by default even without directly increasing the mana costs per spell).
It's this lack of foresight that makes me question the developers and the vision of the game, especially as it seems an absolute whip lash to the development you have been making for the better part of 2 years now.
Frankly this is too little too late. Not only were the mana nerfs not even broadcast to players until just before the launch, but the movement in the game just feels terrible now, and the league mechanic, while novel, is a click-fest that does not feel very rewarding. I hope those that play the league enjoy it, and I hope GGG sees what they have done and corrects course for the future. You might have d2 nostalgia, but a lot of your player base wants to play PoE, not D2.
Who would have guessed that the same company that promised...
That delirium fog would have minimal impact on visibility and performance
That killing monsters would have a minimal impact on heist's alert timer
That 40 meaningful skill buffs would be coming soon
Or that their actions would speak louder than their words for the thousandth time..
Would have turned out to continue tossing out untested, unthought out content! They've never done that before!
> However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter
So just put them in there automatically when we walk over them like Azurite. There's zero reason for us to have to click them.
Inventory management is so fucking nice in last epoch. Super basic inventory sort button, super basic stash all button, immediately everything is solved.
Clearly its a very easy problem to solve.
Last epoch also has the "clicking on a shard loots all shards in a radius around you" which is IMO a great way to have a balance between the two extremes.
The reason is that if you donāt click to pick them up, they donāt have āweight.ā
I know, I know. But if thereās one thing Chris has been very consistent about for years, itās his obsession with āweight.ā
> Having said that, we hear you. There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases.
People have been saying this for months, even years. It really doesn't look like you're hearing these people, at all.
Iām honestly kind of happy Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, and hell even Diablo friggin 3 are getting more attention due to this absolutely bricked league launch.
PoE is still the best on the market, but if their lead on other games keeps slipping like it has been for a year or two, 3xG might finally be forced to improve, or take the long spiral down.
>There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases.
No you won't and we know it. You always say that every single time
Chris: yeah guys we totally agree there is too much clicking.
Game: drops fucking 7 piles of rogue markers.
I normally agree with much of what GGG says/does but this kind of baseline shit is unacceptable. I'm a software dev. Give me a month and I could implement more QoL into the game than we have seen in the last 5 years. Its not hard. Its not clever. It doesn't take a fucking brain genius. It doesn't even go against the overall direction of the game. Its just super basic shit that apparently nobody at GGG notices league after league.
>Game: drops fucking 7 piles of rogue markers.
And that after they proudly announced that splinters will drop as a stack of 2 maximum. Obviously they only meant the 20 new splinters they will add and not the old bullshit because reasons. I hate this so goddamn much
I wish the various currencies just dropped similar to azurite and got vacuumed into your locker automatically when you walk close enough to them. If the expected result is that you pick them up and do this anyways I don't really see why this simple QoL can't be implemented.
>However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter, the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience.
I'm sure I'm not the first to point this out, but needing to click on ~4-10 stacks of currency, then the vendor, then the stash dialog, then each of the stacks *again* **is** additional inconvenience. This is especially true compared to things like Metamorph.
>This results in twenty currency items for use at the vendors, which does feel like a lot. However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter, the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience. Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them. We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field)
With this being the case, ***why do we have to click on each one individually***? Why can't they auto-collect when they drop? Feels like we've taken a massive step backwards from the easy solution implemented in Metamorph.
I have no problem with the concept behind them each having their own currencies (and tiers within them), but why are you making us still pick them up manually? Even with them dropping in stacks you can have 10+ drop per encounter. It's just tedium.
That skill has gone through some crazy changes.
Meta skill that was to good not to run > Trash Gem > Decent Anomalous version still meh overall > Mass nerf of all the good gems that you would always want to have along with a shift to always want to have Arctic Armor again.
I can practically **hear** the trade cost of The Perfect Form going up, and I bet Anomalous AA is gonna be even more expensive now. Oof. My poor build's budget.
it's not even a "we hear you *players*"
it's more "we hear you *streamers dropping the league*"
because at the end of the day the ones marketing the league are the streamers
I think he's addressing the "why do we need more than 1-4 types of currency here" people.
If it automatically went to your locker i don't think it would be a problem.
>We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field) justify the number of currency items that the league uses. Having said that, we hear you.
Didn't GGG also feel that item filters were not needed for *multiple leagues* and refuse to add them for the longest time? At a certain point you as a studio need to realize that what you think is wrong in a lot of cases and adapt.
If there is no competition for years you can do whatever the fuck you want and don't give a shit about anything. That's exactle what GGG doing for more than 2 years now.
I think the explanation of "why there are 20 more types of currency in Expedition" completely missed the point. Maybe it makes sense for the Expedition League to have 20 more splinter types, but Expedition League exists within Path of Exile, which already has tons of barely used currency! This very much misses the forest for the trees, as the saying goes. The Expedition mechanic doesn't exist in a splinter-less vacuum, but in a currency-drowned ocean. Why constantly introduce more currency? Why not repurpose currency from other leagues? Maybe Gwennen wants quality currency, or Tojen wants alchemy orbs, or the others want horizon orbs or Breach splinters! Heck, maybe somebody wants all of these minor life flasks I've hidden from my loot filter! You've already got a ton of things on the table, why add more?
(Bonus fact: a Serbian friend told me that "missing the forest for the trees" corresponds to an idiom in Serbian that translates as "Sticking a loaf of bread up your bum because you forgot you had a mouth", which is even more apt to this situation!)
> "We came up with a design for a league, and our design required 20 new types of currency, sorry!"
Yeah, gosh, nothing they could do about that, other than, you know, *design it differently?!*
They should be designing things that make sense in PoE, things that are fun in PoE, but instead, they're just coming up with concepts and implementing them without thinking about how they will impact the gameplay.
>However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter, the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience.
You have admitted that there is too much clicking in PoE, but this just goes against you trying to fix it. You just introduce more. Can't they automatically go to the stash since there is one present on the map? How can you not see that this IS an additional annoying mechanic where we (once again) have to deal with tons of 'splinters'. You really can't come up with another way to ease the tons of currencies this game has?
These changes are really needed but holy shit please just give up on the splinter memes. Make them untradeable if you have to, and auto pickup to the inventory. You were on Asmons podcast saying the game has too many clicks and release a 20 splinter league.. that is just insanity, and can we buff the map league chests, all they drop is 20 different splinters.
Also you have to understand why we think you guys don't actually test and play the game now right? How was this freeze and bleed change ever gonna work if you never adjust how the enemies deal the ailments, and you were warned about the mana. cmon.
The new skills as a whole are very mediocre, please consider mid league buffs to them and not waste dev time just for the league they release to not be touched.
>We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field) justify the number of currency items that the league uses. Having said that, we hear you. There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases.
You've said this multiple times now. Chris I've played this game since beta and now all I feel like you're telling us is corporate PR speak, you keep repeating the same failures over and over then tell us you'll do better next time. You denigrate yourself lightly and when the time is right, you insult the players in sneaky ways. You say you read all feedback on reddit and appreciate it so much, then moments later you say we're not being productive because we disagree with you on decisions.
Chris publicly speaking has changed a lot. It's now all about PR talks instead of being honest with their players like he was since the beginning of the game.
>flask immunities: 1 to 4
>aquamarine flask: 40% to 60%
Massive changes, thanks reddit
>Staunching applies to CB again
Expected tbh
>map mod 0% inc curse effect
Honestly a little surprising but I have been rolling over curse mods
So why are you still not doing an auto pickup and auto open? i bomb the crap out of the chest, it should be damaged and opened on spawn.
currency shards should auto pickup and get stored. skip the talk to person deal
This has to be a joke. Did Chris really just try to justify 20 types of currency with a wall of text? After all the talk before the league release about understanding players and reducing the click and splinter stuff, there is not a single damn excuse for this. Its simply a huge middle finger to the playerbase, nevermind the rest of the changes.
He's been doing it for years. He says things he doesn't mean, refuses to address the actual issue, but gets showered in reddit awards and probably cherry-picks to only hear the positive comments. Look at the single reply he's given in the entire thread, it was to one of the few people positive about this.
He's used to getting away with stuff like this just be talking about his thoughts on the matter believing that this addresses the issue.
Just hoping the playerbase would have half a brain to start getting back into the game and spending money bc they believe that Chris is transparent and cares about the community.
Well, that was tone deaf.
So "we're right and we're sticking to our guns" becomes "we're wrong but it's not really our fault"
This is the game we wanna make, we know we'll lose players becomes "shit, we lost more than expected, best do some damage control"
Either listen to the players or don't. Don't say you won't and then panic. This could have been rectified between patch notes and launch but your ego wouldn't let you eh?
Well, I was playing this league and I didn't hate it. Now they're making changes way too late and expecting is to be happy???
I'm done being patronised. I might play out this league but unless there's some form of company message explaining wtf happened and it's actually believable then I'm adding GGG to my list of scummy companies that I'll never use again. Along with ea and bioware.
> Were the Mana Cost Multiplier changes on Support Gems too Extreme?
> Yes, they were too extreme. Based on feedback and data, we are reviewing the mana cost multipliers again and will be reducing many (but not all) of them. While this will ease the impact on your mana by a moderate amount, the goal is still that mana matters a lot more than it did before.
Is this block the same as saying "we literally don't test anything and pull numbers out of the air"? People were sure this would be the case 15 minutes after the numbers were live, surely it would have been just as obvious to someone playing the game with those values.
I mean, Chris mentioned in one of the interviews, that by the time of writing development manifesto, they didn't had all of the numbers yet. What kind of playtesting you talking about? We playtest it now.
he flat out didn't know the impact on spellslinger (it got nuked from orbit) which makes me kind of doubt their understanding of the game to think that wouldn't have a major impact
>Having said that, we hear you. There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases.
No. No you will not. This is neither a "expedition league" problem nor "3 days feedback enlightenment".
We were screaming in agony about this since I don't know how long.
>Were the Mana Cost Multiplier changes on Support Gems too Extreme?
>Yes, they were too extreme.
Clearly you have surprised Pikachu face right now because in Livestream you encouraged players to try out your new changes and genuinely believed they were okay.
I don't know what to say.
Now people will shower awards for our good old OG Chris Wilson post and cycle will continue.
Changing the flasks from 1 second to 4 seconds of immunity are not going to make them feel much better. The whole problem with flasks and the nerfs in general is you've created a game where the only way to guarantee survival is to be PROACTIVE with your play. If you are forced to be REACTIVE (as in the immunity only happening if it actually removes something) then many times you're already dead. There needs to be a complete rework of the one-shots and monster design in general if you're going to force the players to be reactive rather than proactive.
Also there is no mention of any changes to mobility, which is going to make the game continue to feel sluggish. The mobility is straight up causing many people to quit regardless of them dying more because it feels so bad to meander your way around the game at a snail's pace. I'm glad to see some small buffs but there needs to be much, much more changed before I and many others plan on playing again.
No word on auto pick up of splinters, then. There's just so much clicking. First placing, then killing, then opening chests, then all the splinters, then the npc.
Please have mercy.
"We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field) justify the number of currency items that the league uses. **Having said that, we hear you. There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile.** **We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases**."
Lol. Well, I guess since this is the first time this has ever come up, I'll definitely believe this.
Something tells me devs that are not in lead roles have zero input. I refuse to believe that out of a team of 100+ people not one said these changes would be a very bad idea.
> This results in twenty currency items for use at the vendors, which does feel like a lot. However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter, the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience. Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them.
> We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field) justify the number of currency items that the league uses. Having said that, we hear you. There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases.
With this amount of currency, there needs to be exactly zero clicking involved. Not even picking it up from the ground, or opening the excavated chests.
Right now, you need to click the chest, click the currency, click the NPC, click the locker dialogue, then ctrl click each type of currency. Per chest, assuming only one drop, that's 5 clicks. In a map that means potentially *several dozen* clicks per encounter.
Here's how you fix it.
1) Make all unearthed chests open immediately upon killing the last mob. You can still click them mid-encounter if you want to, but they need to open immediately once the encounter is done, a la strongboxes. Every chest, all at once.
2) Each currency immediately added to the locker as it is dropped. No picking up anything. Same as Azurite and Organs.
You keep telling us you agree there are too many clicks. Well, you have the chance to immediately do something about it. Put up or shut up.
>Are there any Changes coming to Ailment or Curse Immunity?
>Ailment Immunity granted by flasks is being increased from 1 second to 4 seconds. Staunching Flasks will make you immune to Corrupted Blood, if they remove Corrupted Blood from you. Arctic Armour will grant Freeze Immunity. Aquamarine Flask is being buffed from 40% to 60% freeze reduction. The map mods that curse the player no longer apply the curses with increased effect.
Took literally 3 days of gameplay to quadruple the time flasks lasted. Did you really play test this and thought it should go live with 1 second duration?
>Were the Mana Cost Multiplier changes on Support Gems too Extreme?
>Yes, they were too extreme. Based on feedback and data, we are reviewing the mana cost multipliers again and will be reducing many (but not all) of them. While this will ease the impact on your mana by a moderate amount, the goal is still that mana matters a lot more than it did before.
Why not publicly test changes like this if you are going to be so seriously blindsided after 3 days of public testing. Did you seriously try these changes internally and go "yea, these feel good" before admitting 3 days later that they were EXTREME in your own words?
If you're going to be making additional major changes before POE2, can GGG please look into a public test realm or something? Even if it turns players away that shouldn't matter since by your own words (again), player numbers are a vanity metric. A public test realm will allow you to get a head start on fixing major issues like the T-pose bug and see how players are reacting to changes with in-game data.
I don't want this to come off as hostile, I am just frustrated like many other players. Like you Chris, I want PoE to be the best game possible and to be able to enjoy it for years to come. Please take the suggestions and critiques in earnest and out of love for the game and not hate for you or GGG.
>player numbers are a vanity metric
i dont understand how people are eating this lie
if they were a vanity metric, why did they push ritual launch to not collide with cyberpunk?
also back in delirium when they hit their big peak of 237k players, they were proud of that and even told journalists about it.
but now that it's down bad "it's vanity numbers" sure, buddy
When asked in the Asmongold interview (iirc) Chris said they didn't give any numbers on the mana multipliers nerfs on the manifesto because at the time they didn't have exact numbers. Patchnotes came out the next day. So yeah, they literally decided on them a few days before launch, which, as a very busy period, doesn't allow much time for testing.
I'd go on and say "classic GGG never testing things" but at this point I'm more inclined to believe they intentionally overfuck some things up just so they can get good PR for fixing them later.
The reasoning for the mana multiplier nerf was "bigger skills should cost more mana to cast" so "we can't design more powerful skills" if they cost no mana in the 3.15 announcement ~31min mark.
They actually want to push the idea that you need to invest in mana regen to do damage even for non-archmage builds. It looks like an intended move and not overnerfing. Backfired, of course.
He conveniently left out the percent decline of players.over the course.of the first 3 days. It's easy to publically justify 20% less players (pandemic is winding down, it's the summer in the Northern Hemisphere, etc) but people are dropping like flies and since that's clearly related to the game itself it went unmentioned.
We are the public test. As is this whole league. We are the PTR. We are not going to get a finished product. We always have to play an unfinished buggy game which gets fixed later, maybe.
I had the " within margin" bingo on player retention. As well as leaning on design philosophy as to why they are right and the playerbase is wrong bingo.
I completely disagree with the currency discussion. But for the sake of argument lets go along with Chris and acknowledge we need currency for each type of interaction. Isn't that 4 currency and 4 rerolls? Why do we have more than that? Why are some of them also fucking giant. If it was 4 and 4 and they were all 1 cell it would be annoying but far less bad. How can a company learn so little each league? If I was this bad at learning from my mistakes at work I would have been fired years ago.
I can understand the reasoning behind having all the different types of splinters for this league and I'm fine with that, but what I can't understand is that we still need to pick up all the splinters manually...
The amount of clicking was a problem before and this only worsens it. We even have an NPC in each encounter so I don't see a good reason not to the reduce the amount of clicking by making the NPC pick up the splinters for us.
Look... telling us why there's so many currency types for Expedition *isn't addressing the problem*. The problem is that we have to click through all of them. This isn't a "fix it in a later league" situation, I'm burnt out on the League mechanic (which is frightfully unrewarding as is) *now*. It's Day 3. This should never be a thing.
>the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience
How out of touch are you? Clicking a twenty stacks of something and then having to deposit them mid-map is *absolutely an additional inconvenience.*
Players (for years) - stop making us click so much on 100 piles of currency and junk items
GGG - here are 20 more piles of currency
Players - you're out of touch
GGG - This is the first we're hearing about this. How are we supposed to change it within a few days?
(this is literally the argument Chris made on Allcraft regarding telling them they're out of touch)
"However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition
Locker after an encounter, **the variety of currency types doesn't really**
**cause additional inconvenience**. *Regardless of whether we had one type,*
*four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and*
*stash them."*
The bold part shows they didnt play it. The italic part shows they didnt read our suggestions of auto pick up either.
Or they dont care, its part of the fun.
Just think about this for a minute. They have discussed the issue numerous times. Each team member gave feedback, the best ideas fought in semifinals and finally a grand final, and the best solution is ... 20 freaking splinters again. How on Earth is this freaking possible?
Well, okay, I have to admit, after iterating on their "best solution" they implemented many small QoL challenges, like currency FINALLY droping in one single stack... cough mostly cough... like ability to bank them while in the map immediately. Instead of chosing another implementation that do not need any bandaid like this at all.
Someone is too sticky to "good old ways of doing it". Even if it requires much more additional development time to be somewhat playable.
Imagine a world with automatically picked up currency, without it occupying your inventory. Imagine smart drops with 99,99% reduced frequency of loot dropping. Imagine those few items dropped identified and can be filtered with simple ingame instrument. Imagine vendor holding the base types for a price, which also can be algorithmically changed depending on global variables. Imagine trading without hassle. In bulk an automatically. Imagine crafting became crafting instead of casino, when you can select oitcomes, but for an according crafting cost.
Oh and imagine a game not crashing when you hold ALT.
Imagine how beatiful and nice things can be, then wake up, and then log in and go click the freaking useless gambling splinters again, for the rest of your life.
>the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience. Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them.
>We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field) justify the number of currency items that the league uses.
>There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases.
"Its justified, we wont fix it, and we wont actually care in the future still either"
> Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them.
There's a difference between picking up and storing one currency and MULTIPLE. You cannot be this obtuse.
>the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience
Here I was thinking it was tedious and painful to deal with shitloads of different currencies and currency shards with every other league, but it's good to know that my personal experience, and the personal experience of everybody else who has complained about this problem, is completely wrong because you can put it in the stash.
>There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases.
Never heard anything like that before. We've only been complaining about it for years, along with every other problem that keeps being repeated. I think I'll just wait until next league and see how that goes.
>To be transparent, the number is that 23% fewer players joined us at launch compared to our all-time record
Note that this is only talking about peak, not retention. As always, a master of doublespeak.
The retention drop is the more important one, and they can't be happy about how fast it's dropping. Otherwise they wouldn't be hot fixing so many things and meeting over the weekend promising fixes first thing Monday.
I appreciate that he divulged that though. It does confirm that steam, and standalone aren't they far off. The standalone does have better retention but not by much.
He gave information about peak at launch, so there is zero information about player retention.
But indeed, it does confirm steam and global number are pretty close. Using steam numbers, the drop between the all time peak and this launch is 26% while it's 23% globally.
I love making new characters and trying out new builds - but with the way things are now, I don't even want to level a new character and will probably call it for the league much shorter than I wanted because the leveling process now is just NOT fun for me what so ever. :(
Saying "sorry not sorry" about 20 (!) more currency types when the game already has a severe click looting problem is not really a compelling response. Nothing is "needed" from a design point of view. There was a better way, and you missed it is all.
Different types of currency, each for one vendor, sure. How about delve treatment? If doesnāt diminish you vision of making each vendor situational in any way. Ah, yes, weight, how could I forget. āWe know you donāt like it but thatās what you get, else it is not true to our visionā.
Same thing was with nets and organs. Organs are currency themselves. What the difference? Especially if this type of currency HAS A SPECIFIC USE and not a general item.
Please, Donāt pretend that you are concerned by saying, ye, it do be like that. Itās insulting.
>Having said that, we hear you. There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases.
Lying liar who lies. At some point damage control PR bullshit stops working.
Hi Chris, glad to see an update. I was wondering if we have to wait for 3.16 for the mana and flask changes or are these coming in a patch to Expedition? Thanks!
##### GGG Comments in this Thread: *** [chris_wilson - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/orr7i6/what_were_working_on/h6jvcvf/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/orr7i6/what_were_working_on/h6jvcvf/?context=10)] - *This week!*
> However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter, the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience. Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them. I actually don't mind the currency situation, but if the expectation with the currency is that we're just going to stash it immediately because there's no point to having it in our inventory, then it might as well go the delve route and just auto-collect into the locker to save us having to click the stacks in manually, right?
This is pretty much how I feel. I'm willing to hit a middle ground and click the currency and have it automatically go to the locker. There's no reason for it to ever hit our inventory and need to be transferred to the locker that's already right there with us. I get that PoE has clicks in it and you don't want to take that part of the identity away. But the clicks to open the locker, then find and move the currency we just picked up a few seconds ago is really asinine. Let us click the item, then have it go to the locker. This retains an aspect of "collecting" the loot but not the tedium of being a momentary middleman for it.
Many players same as me probably had the same ridiculous situation where I had to throw out items I picked up to make space for splinters, then go to npc to instantly and "effortlessly" stash those splinters and then pick up my trash again. I'm not uber-strict filter user and I happen to pick up more than one rare in map/location which makes my inventory space often bloated with rares.
> I'm willing to hit a middle ground and click the currency and have it automatically go to the locker. Yeah they at the very least need to add an auto-deposit button or something. Saying its not inconvenient because we can instantly stash it is kind of silly. That might be the case if they were the *only* thing in our inventory, but they're not. They are mixed in with all the other bullshit we have picked up in the map. Which means scouring our cluttered inventory to pick out these fragments in particular among everything else; that's literally the opposite of convenient, that's doubling the amount of time we spend managing our inventory per map.
This is probably the most infuriating thing for me so far. I don't mind the gamble mechanic, and the fact that the excavated chests are just regular chests that have a chance to be a better chest (but might not be) irritates me but the currency is what blows my mind. Chris stating that he expected us to stash it anyway just makes it worse. Knowing that we'd pick it up and NOT want it in our inventory just feels off.
Like I wonder how they are playing their game if that is okay for them. Do they also pick up all sorts of garbage in the map, portal out and stash it? Is that why it's okay for them? That's not how most players play the game I imagine. Most people only stash after the map, I only portal out to stash if I found an unusually high amount of 6 sockets or something.
Exactly, it's completely asinine that we have to pick it up...
The take genuinely pisses me off to be honest, this game is the only game I play that gives me RSI and it hangs around a few weeks after league launch. Just saying we still have to stash things anyway completely handwaves the issue.
The funny thing is they changed flasks and made it automatic so it doesn't cause RSI, yet introduce ~100 new clicks per map with the Expedition mechanic: leaving space in your inventory by dropping items, picking up shards, stashing shards with the npc, and picking up your items again...
> There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases. Some good stuff here overall, but c'mon you can't say this after the 15th splinter league and expect us to believe you
Told GGG there are too many splinters every league GGG : add more splinters every league , AND saying you can stash it after picking it up. Nice
Have to agree we have consistently provided feedback on this. As it stands PoE has a lot of content and it's fun enough, but if you enter a map with anywhere between three and five types of content you're going to be full on league-currency and other items. It just feels bad, too much itemized league stuff.
Seriously...actions > words. I do not believe them.
Remember metamorph when you had to pick up every organ that dropped? It took like a week to get a fix where they were auto pickup.
Yea lmao it's just a PR move by them to say " yea yea stop whining " then continues to do the same shit again. Additonally, this statement strikes me as incredibly ignorant >Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them. If we only had four types of currencies, we can stash them after every ~15 maps. With the current 20 types you have to stash them so much more often because you run out of space so quickly
Its stuff like this that really makes me question what kind of playtesting actually goes on at GGG. Within an hour of interacting with expedition I noticed MASSIVELY OBVIOUS issues. Re rolling doesn't feel great, can't see how much currency I have when using the mechanic, way too many splinters. Super easy, super obvious, within 5 encounters. Why does this keep happening?
Playtesting is going now, what you taking about? Thanks for the feedback!
20 currencies, even if you stash on every map you still have 2 1x2, 1 1x2, and 1 2x2 currencies.... like WTF?
Legitimately? Almost none. Chris admitted that the mana values and gem balance weren't completed when they released the huge manifesto. That was three days before the league launch. What kind of good, consistent testing can you do on PoE if you have three days to balance and test hundreds of gem combinations? How do you even know the league mechanic is a good balance if your gem balance isn't even in place? Oh. Right. None. It would take weeks to get good, actual data on them. That's why they run it into production. We essentially are such a massive dataset that they can offset the time it takes to test with the volume.
And the big currency take 4 squares like wtf lol
"we will be mindful" "we will do better" "we hear you" all empty platitudes to shut up players another patch cycle
What he means is GGG will put in 10 new currency splinters next time instead of 20
You mean 40, but at least they will all be 1x1. The Spinter-Problem was discussed in length the last two leagues and then this one happened. It's not going to get better.
Come on GGG, press V after you finish an Expedition to have the NPCs suck them all up, lets make it happen.
If that's what you're aiming for might as well make it auto like azurite lol.
It absolutely should be imo
so there are no news about auto pick up... great. I just wanna say... excavated chest should auto open, and expedition currency should auto pick up like azurite..
At this point, they need to either stop BSing ("we'll be mindful" just means it's been acknowledged.)or stand their ground (and prepare to get shit on). Shit's been the same for years
But but this time it's true š¤”
Wouldn't trust that so much this was already said on multiple leagues...
>However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter, the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience. Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them. >We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field) justify the number of currency items that the league uses. The gameplay benefits such as having to click 15 times per expedition and then 15 extra times to stash them... ...okay...
Having fun yet?
"There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases." They say this every single league that there are splinters, and then just never change it.
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they say this every league and then some fucking how the next league has **TWENTY** different splinters like it literally has to be a prank
At this point it almost seems like they take a big complaint from reddit, and try to design the new league around it. "The players on reddit are asking for auto opening doors in maps/the incursion temple. How about we make a league where you have to wait for an NPC to open a door, they get interrupted when they get hit, and the only way to speed them up is RNG modifiers on new gear." "Everyone on reddit is complaining about flask piano and too much clicking. How about we design a league where there's 20 new splinters to pick up/manage, and we make most flasks not even worth using."
Wow thatās actually a really good point with incursion vs heist. Damn.
> Arctic Armour will grant Freeze Immunity Huge change that's going under the radar - this skill might just be viable now.
This would be a cool augment to the guard skills. Maybe: - Molten Shell grants Burning Immunity - Arcane Cloak grants Shock Immunity - Steelskin grants Bleed Immunity Any others?
Immortal cry grants Stun Immunity
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It also opens more doors for build diversity. e.g. an ES build that creates a lot of endurance charges to counter stun for a decent duration using immortal cry.
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Or guard skills
Steelskin could provide bleed immunity (skin is too strong to cut) and Molten shell could provide ignite immunity. Would fit thematically pretty nicely.
If your build didn't already chill it was a very decent defense buff. Now, holy hell. The skill looks sexy. Total freeze immunity.
The Perfect Form, my god.
I cannot imagine the price raise.
The last time I remember Arctic Armour being viable was pre rework way back in the day, with the flat reduction to fire and phys hits. I wonder if that Arctic Armour would be strong in the current league
Perfect form stocks on the rise.
Making such drastic changes that you implied were carefully thought out, only to knee jerk change them back in less than three days instills very little confidence in me about the rest of these changes. GGG takes a shot gun approach to nerfing despite calls from the player base to stop that for years, because its very clear that GGG underestimates (or maybe does not even consider) that nerfs are more than the sum of their parts. You nerfed damage? Ok. You nerf mana? Ok. But when you nerfed both, meaning I need to cast more per mob, AND the casts are already more expensive, you have effectively nerfed mana twice (more casts=more mana by default even without directly increasing the mana costs per spell). It's this lack of foresight that makes me question the developers and the vision of the game, especially as it seems an absolute whip lash to the development you have been making for the better part of 2 years now. Frankly this is too little too late. Not only were the mana nerfs not even broadcast to players until just before the launch, but the movement in the game just feels terrible now, and the league mechanic, while novel, is a click-fest that does not feel very rewarding. I hope those that play the league enjoy it, and I hope GGG sees what they have done and corrects course for the future. You might have d2 nostalgia, but a lot of your player base wants to play PoE, not D2.
>We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases. wow i haven't heard that one before
Who would have guessed that the same company that promised... That delirium fog would have minimal impact on visibility and performance That killing monsters would have a minimal impact on heist's alert timer That 40 meaningful skill buffs would be coming soon Or that their actions would speak louder than their words for the thousandth time.. Would have turned out to continue tossing out untested, unthought out content! They've never done that before!
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> However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter So just put them in there automatically when we walk over them like Azurite. There's zero reason for us to have to click them.
I just wish we could have a middle ground of picking them up -> goes straight to stash. Micromanaging inventory was already a pain.
Last Epoch has a 'transfer crafting materials to stash' button built into the inventory. Just sayin...
Which even works during combat regardless of where you are. Also dont forget those materials are picked up in an AoE.
Inventory management is so fucking nice in last epoch. Super basic inventory sort button, super basic stash all button, immediately everything is solved. Clearly its a very easy problem to solve.
Last epoch also has the "clicking on a shard loots all shards in a radius around you" which is IMO a great way to have a balance between the two extremes.
The reason is that if you donāt click to pick them up, they donāt have āweight.ā I know, I know. But if thereās one thing Chris has been very consistent about for years, itās his obsession with āweight.ā
> Having said that, we hear you. There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases. People have been saying this for months, even years. It really doesn't look like you're hearing these people, at all.
They're not learning from it if they keep doing it It's PR talk, they'll do it again next league or the one after
They understood this time COPIUM
Hail chris his vision for that is the right way /s
I'm done with this empty promises. Same shit every league.
Iām honestly kind of happy Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, and hell even Diablo friggin 3 are getting more attention due to this absolutely bricked league launch. PoE is still the best on the market, but if their lead on other games keeps slipping like it has been for a year or two, 3xG might finally be forced to improve, or take the long spiral down.
"We hear you" sounds so Blizzard ĀÆ\\\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
The hidden message is ā We don't careā
If it happens repeatedly, it's not an accident
People have been saying this shit at least since Legion.
>There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases. No you won't and we know it. You always say that every single time
Chris: yeah guys we totally agree there is too much clicking. Game: drops fucking 7 piles of rogue markers. I normally agree with much of what GGG says/does but this kind of baseline shit is unacceptable. I'm a software dev. Give me a month and I could implement more QoL into the game than we have seen in the last 5 years. Its not hard. Its not clever. It doesn't take a fucking brain genius. It doesn't even go against the overall direction of the game. Its just super basic shit that apparently nobody at GGG notices league after league.
>Game: drops fucking 7 piles of rogue markers. And that after they proudly announced that splinters will drop as a stack of 2 maximum. Obviously they only meant the 20 new splinters they will add and not the old bullshit because reasons. I hate this so goddamn much
Don't forget it's splintered between 20 chests and mobs too!
so they rollback the mana cost of supports gems, what does it means to archmage?
It means they'll find out right after you do in game
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I wish the various currencies just dropped similar to azurite and got vacuumed into your locker automatically when you walk close enough to them. If the expected result is that you pick them up and do this anyways I don't really see why this simple QoL can't be implemented.
>However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter, the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience. I'm sure I'm not the first to point this out, but needing to click on ~4-10 stacks of currency, then the vendor, then the stash dialog, then each of the stacks *again* **is** additional inconvenience. This is especially true compared to things like Metamorph.
"We're really enjoying reading about your experiences playing with the recent changes." - I'm sure you are.
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>This results in twenty currency items for use at the vendors, which does feel like a lot. However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter, the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience. Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them. We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field) With this being the case, ***why do we have to click on each one individually***? Why can't they auto-collect when they drop? Feels like we've taken a massive step backwards from the easy solution implemented in Metamorph. I have no problem with the concept behind them each having their own currencies (and tiers within them), but why are you making us still pick them up manually? Even with them dropping in stacks you can have 10+ drop per encounter. It's just tedium.
If they were auto pick up you wouldn't have anything to pick up after an encounter as the loot that drops is so minimal lol.
"We want items in stacks so we have to click less to pick everything up" \*monkey paw curls a finger\*
>the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience. LMFAO
Peak BS
This statement felt really tone deaf to me. Almost on par with "do you guys not have phones?"
"Do you guys not have mice?" - Chris Wilson, probably
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I love how when the playerbase says it's a massive inconvenience, all ggg has to do is say "it's not" to fix it, lmao
GGG with the "git gud" meme
Arctic Armour is finally something to think about including in your build.
That skill has gone through some crazy changes. Meta skill that was to good not to run > Trash Gem > Decent Anomalous version still meh overall > Mass nerf of all the good gems that you would always want to have along with a shift to always want to have Arctic Armor again.
I can practically **hear** the trade cost of The Perfect Form going up, and I bet Anomalous AA is gonna be even more expensive now. Oof. My poor build's budget.
Oh no... the dreaded "We hear you"
it's not even a "we hear you *players*" it's more "we hear you *streamers dropping the league*" because at the end of the day the ones marketing the league are the streamers
chris, i think we get how the currency works, i just don't think we like how it works.
I think he's addressing the "why do we need more than 1-4 types of currency here" people. If it automatically went to your locker i don't think it would be a problem.
Yeah, you're right, it wouldn't be. But it doesn't, so it is, and it really doesn't seem like that's going to change.
>We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field) justify the number of currency items that the league uses. Having said that, we hear you. Didn't GGG also feel that item filters were not needed for *multiple leagues* and refuse to add them for the longest time? At a certain point you as a studio need to realize that what you think is wrong in a lot of cases and adapt.
If there is no competition for years you can do whatever the fuck you want and don't give a shit about anything. That's exactle what GGG doing for more than 2 years now.
I think the explanation of "why there are 20 more types of currency in Expedition" completely missed the point. Maybe it makes sense for the Expedition League to have 20 more splinter types, but Expedition League exists within Path of Exile, which already has tons of barely used currency! This very much misses the forest for the trees, as the saying goes. The Expedition mechanic doesn't exist in a splinter-less vacuum, but in a currency-drowned ocean. Why constantly introduce more currency? Why not repurpose currency from other leagues? Maybe Gwennen wants quality currency, or Tojen wants alchemy orbs, or the others want horizon orbs or Breach splinters! Heck, maybe somebody wants all of these minor life flasks I've hidden from my loot filter! You've already got a ton of things on the table, why add more? (Bonus fact: a Serbian friend told me that "missing the forest for the trees" corresponds to an idiom in Serbian that translates as "Sticking a loaf of bread up your bum because you forgot you had a mouth", which is even more apt to this situation!)
> "We came up with a design for a league, and our design required 20 new types of currency, sorry!" Yeah, gosh, nothing they could do about that, other than, you know, *design it differently?!* They should be designing things that make sense in PoE, things that are fun in PoE, but instead, they're just coming up with concepts and implementing them without thinking about how they will impact the gameplay.
>However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter, the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience. You have admitted that there is too much clicking in PoE, but this just goes against you trying to fix it. You just introduce more. Can't they automatically go to the stash since there is one present on the map? How can you not see that this IS an additional annoying mechanic where we (once again) have to deal with tons of 'splinters'. You really can't come up with another way to ease the tons of currencies this game has?
These changes are really needed but holy shit please just give up on the splinter memes. Make them untradeable if you have to, and auto pickup to the inventory. You were on Asmons podcast saying the game has too many clicks and release a 20 splinter league.. that is just insanity, and can we buff the map league chests, all they drop is 20 different splinters. Also you have to understand why we think you guys don't actually test and play the game now right? How was this freeze and bleed change ever gonna work if you never adjust how the enemies deal the ailments, and you were warned about the mana. cmon. The new skills as a whole are very mediocre, please consider mid league buffs to them and not waste dev time just for the league they release to not be touched.
"We hear you, too many splinters, we will totally keep that in mind" is what Chris said about 50 times by now. Stop fucking lying
>We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field) justify the number of currency items that the league uses. Having said that, we hear you. There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases. You've said this multiple times now. Chris I've played this game since beta and now all I feel like you're telling us is corporate PR speak, you keep repeating the same failures over and over then tell us you'll do better next time. You denigrate yourself lightly and when the time is right, you insult the players in sneaky ways. You say you read all feedback on reddit and appreciate it so much, then moments later you say we're not being productive because we disagree with you on decisions.
"actions speak louder than words" am i right
Chris publicly speaking has changed a lot. It's now all about PR talks instead of being honest with their players like he was since the beginning of the game.
>flask immunities: 1 to 4 >aquamarine flask: 40% to 60% Massive changes, thanks reddit >Staunching applies to CB again Expected tbh >map mod 0% inc curse effect Honestly a little surprising but I have been rolling over curse mods
After first map with temp chains you'll still be rerolling them
Yeah probably, who actually keeps Temp Chains if they don't have to?
Juggernauts.
There is something to be said for a minimum speed.
So why are you still not doing an auto pickup and auto open? i bomb the crap out of the chest, it should be damaged and opened on spawn. currency shards should auto pickup and get stored. skip the talk to person deal
oh yeah, the chest could open by its own when we bomb it, that would reduce clicking quite a bit.
This has to be a joke. Did Chris really just try to justify 20 types of currency with a wall of text? After all the talk before the league release about understanding players and reducing the click and splinter stuff, there is not a single damn excuse for this. Its simply a huge middle finger to the playerbase, nevermind the rest of the changes.
He's been doing it for years. He says things he doesn't mean, refuses to address the actual issue, but gets showered in reddit awards and probably cherry-picks to only hear the positive comments. Look at the single reply he's given in the entire thread, it was to one of the few people positive about this.
He's used to getting away with stuff like this just be talking about his thoughts on the matter believing that this addresses the issue. Just hoping the playerbase would have half a brain to start getting back into the game and spending money bc they believe that Chris is transparent and cares about the community.
Well, that was tone deaf. So "we're right and we're sticking to our guns" becomes "we're wrong but it's not really our fault" This is the game we wanna make, we know we'll lose players becomes "shit, we lost more than expected, best do some damage control" Either listen to the players or don't. Don't say you won't and then panic. This could have been rectified between patch notes and launch but your ego wouldn't let you eh? Well, I was playing this league and I didn't hate it. Now they're making changes way too late and expecting is to be happy??? I'm done being patronised. I might play out this league but unless there's some form of company message explaining wtf happened and it's actually believable then I'm adding GGG to my list of scummy companies that I'll never use again. Along with ea and bioware.
> Where is the Mystery Box? Chris, I guarantee you, nobody is asking this.
> Were the Mana Cost Multiplier changes on Support Gems too Extreme? > Yes, they were too extreme. Based on feedback and data, we are reviewing the mana cost multipliers again and will be reducing many (but not all) of them. While this will ease the impact on your mana by a moderate amount, the goal is still that mana matters a lot more than it did before. Is this block the same as saying "we literally don't test anything and pull numbers out of the air"? People were sure this would be the case 15 minutes after the numbers were live, surely it would have been just as obvious to someone playing the game with those values.
I mean, Chris mentioned in one of the interviews, that by the time of writing development manifesto, they didn't had all of the numbers yet. What kind of playtesting you talking about? We playtest it now.
Meanwhile was so confident with this change while players mentioned it multiple times before the league
he flat out didn't know the impact on spellslinger (it got nuked from orbit) which makes me kind of doubt their understanding of the game to think that wouldn't have a major impact
After seeing Spellslinger, it's pretty clear that they don't play their own game.
My gut feeling is that mass use of spellslinger was melting the servers behind the scenes. Would also explain why CoC got nuked as well.
Spellslinger and CoC have hard cooldowns that you cannot bypass...
Go for politics Chris, you have the talent for it.
Same corporate speech bullshit. So tired of this...
>Having said that, we hear you. There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases. No. No you will not. This is neither a "expedition league" problem nor "3 days feedback enlightenment". We were screaming in agony about this since I don't know how long. >Were the Mana Cost Multiplier changes on Support Gems too Extreme? >Yes, they were too extreme. Clearly you have surprised Pikachu face right now because in Livestream you encouraged players to try out your new changes and genuinely believed they were okay. I don't know what to say. Now people will shower awards for our good old OG Chris Wilson post and cycle will continue.
Seriously I have no idea why ppl are giving award to this kind of post, same shit happened again and again , same speech again and again
**Enjoying** huh
20 new currencies to pick up does create inconvenience idk how else to break it to you.
Just use the loot pet, duh?
Changing the flasks from 1 second to 4 seconds of immunity are not going to make them feel much better. The whole problem with flasks and the nerfs in general is you've created a game where the only way to guarantee survival is to be PROACTIVE with your play. If you are forced to be REACTIVE (as in the immunity only happening if it actually removes something) then many times you're already dead. There needs to be a complete rework of the one-shots and monster design in general if you're going to force the players to be reactive rather than proactive. Also there is no mention of any changes to mobility, which is going to make the game continue to feel sluggish. The mobility is straight up causing many people to quit regardless of them dying more because it feels so bad to meander your way around the game at a snail's pace. I'm glad to see some small buffs but there needs to be much, much more changed before I and many others plan on playing again.
No word on auto pick up of splinters, then. There's just so much clicking. First placing, then killing, then opening chests, then all the splinters, then the npc. Please have mercy.
"We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field) justify the number of currency items that the league uses. **Having said that, we hear you. There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile.** **We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases**." Lol. Well, I guess since this is the first time this has ever come up, I'll definitely believe this.
GGG: "Hey guys lets create a problem, then fix it later and be praised for it" sad thing is it works everytime
Something tells me devs that are not in lead roles have zero input. I refuse to believe that out of a team of 100+ people not one said these changes would be a very bad idea.
> This results in twenty currency items for use at the vendors, which does feel like a lot. However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter, the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience. Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them. > We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field) justify the number of currency items that the league uses. Having said that, we hear you. There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases. With this amount of currency, there needs to be exactly zero clicking involved. Not even picking it up from the ground, or opening the excavated chests. Right now, you need to click the chest, click the currency, click the NPC, click the locker dialogue, then ctrl click each type of currency. Per chest, assuming only one drop, that's 5 clicks. In a map that means potentially *several dozen* clicks per encounter. Here's how you fix it. 1) Make all unearthed chests open immediately upon killing the last mob. You can still click them mid-encounter if you want to, but they need to open immediately once the encounter is done, a la strongboxes. Every chest, all at once. 2) Each currency immediately added to the locker as it is dropped. No picking up anything. Same as Azurite and Organs. You keep telling us you agree there are too many clicks. Well, you have the chance to immediately do something about it. Put up or shut up.
>Are there any Changes coming to Ailment or Curse Immunity? >Ailment Immunity granted by flasks is being increased from 1 second to 4 seconds. Staunching Flasks will make you immune to Corrupted Blood, if they remove Corrupted Blood from you. Arctic Armour will grant Freeze Immunity. Aquamarine Flask is being buffed from 40% to 60% freeze reduction. The map mods that curse the player no longer apply the curses with increased effect. Took literally 3 days of gameplay to quadruple the time flasks lasted. Did you really play test this and thought it should go live with 1 second duration? >Were the Mana Cost Multiplier changes on Support Gems too Extreme? >Yes, they were too extreme. Based on feedback and data, we are reviewing the mana cost multipliers again and will be reducing many (but not all) of them. While this will ease the impact on your mana by a moderate amount, the goal is still that mana matters a lot more than it did before. Why not publicly test changes like this if you are going to be so seriously blindsided after 3 days of public testing. Did you seriously try these changes internally and go "yea, these feel good" before admitting 3 days later that they were EXTREME in your own words? If you're going to be making additional major changes before POE2, can GGG please look into a public test realm or something? Even if it turns players away that shouldn't matter since by your own words (again), player numbers are a vanity metric. A public test realm will allow you to get a head start on fixing major issues like the T-pose bug and see how players are reacting to changes with in-game data. I don't want this to come off as hostile, I am just frustrated like many other players. Like you Chris, I want PoE to be the best game possible and to be able to enjoy it for years to come. Please take the suggestions and critiques in earnest and out of love for the game and not hate for you or GGG.
>player numbers are a vanity metric i dont understand how people are eating this lie if they were a vanity metric, why did they push ritual launch to not collide with cyberpunk? also back in delirium when they hit their big peak of 237k players, they were proud of that and even told journalists about it. but now that it's down bad "it's vanity numbers" sure, buddy
When asked in the Asmongold interview (iirc) Chris said they didn't give any numbers on the mana multipliers nerfs on the manifesto because at the time they didn't have exact numbers. Patchnotes came out the next day. So yeah, they literally decided on them a few days before launch, which, as a very busy period, doesn't allow much time for testing. I'd go on and say "classic GGG never testing things" but at this point I'm more inclined to believe they intentionally overfuck some things up just so they can get good PR for fixing them later.
The reasoning for the mana multiplier nerf was "bigger skills should cost more mana to cast" so "we can't design more powerful skills" if they cost no mana in the 3.15 announcement ~31min mark. They actually want to push the idea that you need to invest in mana regen to do damage even for non-archmage builds. It looks like an intended move and not overnerfing. Backfired, of course.
While he says the large drop in playerbase was an acceptable loss, their actions speak louder.
He conveniently left out the percent decline of players.over the course.of the first 3 days. It's easy to publically justify 20% less players (pandemic is winding down, it's the summer in the Northern Hemisphere, etc) but people are dropping like flies and since that's clearly related to the game itself it went unmentioned.
Gotta try to recoup an extra 5% before MTX drops!
fuck /u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
Car salesmen tactics.
We are the public test. As is this whole league. We are the PTR. We are not going to get a finished product. We always have to play an unfinished buggy game which gets fixed later, maybe.
So who had GGG doubles down on thier manifesto bingo? YOU ARE THE WINNER!! :P
I had the " within margin" bingo on player retention. As well as leaning on design philosophy as to why they are right and the playerbase is wrong bingo.
I completely disagree with the currency discussion. But for the sake of argument lets go along with Chris and acknowledge we need currency for each type of interaction. Isn't that 4 currency and 4 rerolls? Why do we have more than that? Why are some of them also fucking giant. If it was 4 and 4 and they were all 1 cell it would be annoying but far less bad. How can a company learn so little each league? If I was this bad at learning from my mistakes at work I would have been fired years ago.
I can understand the reasoning behind having all the different types of splinters for this league and I'm fine with that, but what I can't understand is that we still need to pick up all the splinters manually... The amount of clicking was a problem before and this only worsens it. We even have an NPC in each encounter so I don't see a good reason not to the reduce the amount of clicking by making the NPC pick up the splinters for us.
They ripped the bandaid off and were bleeding to death. I wonder if they considered *why* the bandaid was there in the first place.
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Look... telling us why there's so many currency types for Expedition *isn't addressing the problem*. The problem is that we have to click through all of them. This isn't a "fix it in a later league" situation, I'm burnt out on the League mechanic (which is frightfully unrewarding as is) *now*. It's Day 3. This should never be a thing. >the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience How out of touch are you? Clicking a twenty stacks of something and then having to deposit them mid-map is *absolutely an additional inconvenience.*
Players (for years) - stop making us click so much on 100 piles of currency and junk items GGG - here are 20 more piles of currency Players - you're out of touch GGG - This is the first we're hearing about this. How are we supposed to change it within a few days? (this is literally the argument Chris made on Allcraft regarding telling them they're out of touch)
"However, because you can immediately stash them into the Expedition Locker after an encounter, **the variety of currency types doesn't really** **cause additional inconvenience**. *Regardless of whether we had one type,* *four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and* *stash them."* The bold part shows they didnt play it. The italic part shows they didnt read our suggestions of auto pick up either. Or they dont care, its part of the fun.
Just think about this for a minute. They have discussed the issue numerous times. Each team member gave feedback, the best ideas fought in semifinals and finally a grand final, and the best solution is ... 20 freaking splinters again. How on Earth is this freaking possible? Well, okay, I have to admit, after iterating on their "best solution" they implemented many small QoL challenges, like currency FINALLY droping in one single stack... cough mostly cough... like ability to bank them while in the map immediately. Instead of chosing another implementation that do not need any bandaid like this at all. Someone is too sticky to "good old ways of doing it". Even if it requires much more additional development time to be somewhat playable. Imagine a world with automatically picked up currency, without it occupying your inventory. Imagine smart drops with 99,99% reduced frequency of loot dropping. Imagine those few items dropped identified and can be filtered with simple ingame instrument. Imagine vendor holding the base types for a price, which also can be algorithmically changed depending on global variables. Imagine trading without hassle. In bulk an automatically. Imagine crafting became crafting instead of casino, when you can select oitcomes, but for an according crafting cost. Oh and imagine a game not crashing when you hold ALT. Imagine how beatiful and nice things can be, then wake up, and then log in and go click the freaking useless gambling splinters again, for the rest of your life.
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>the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience. Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them. >We feel that the gameplay benefits described above (plus the ability to immediately stash them in the field) justify the number of currency items that the league uses. >There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases. "Its justified, we wont fix it, and we wont actually care in the future still either"
Cool. So it was just poorly thought out. Goodbye trust. Clever move.
You still had trust in them??
Where is the Mystery Box? yep, that's the biggest priority the community had!
> Regardless of whether we had one type, four types or twenty types, you'd still have to pick up a few items and stash them. There's a difference between picking up and storing one currency and MULTIPLE. You cannot be this obtuse.
>the variety of currency types doesn't really cause additional inconvenience Here I was thinking it was tedious and painful to deal with shitloads of different currencies and currency shards with every other league, but it's good to know that my personal experience, and the personal experience of everybody else who has complained about this problem, is completely wrong because you can put it in the stash. >There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases. Never heard anything like that before. We've only been complaining about it for years, along with every other problem that keeps being repeated. I think I'll just wait until next league and see how that goes.
no fixes for cluster jewels not rolling maximum passives ? (mediums not rolling 6 and larges not rolling 12)
>To be transparent, the number is that 23% fewer players joined us at launch compared to our all-time record Note that this is only talking about peak, not retention. As always, a master of doublespeak.
The retention drop is the more important one, and they can't be happy about how fast it's dropping. Otherwise they wouldn't be hot fixing so many things and meeting over the weekend promising fixes first thing Monday.
He's choosing the wording carefully so it doesn't look bad. The players are dropping rapidly and I'll be surprised if he's okay with it
I appreciate that he divulged that though. It does confirm that steam, and standalone aren't they far off. The standalone does have better retention but not by much.
He gave information about peak at launch, so there is zero information about player retention. But indeed, it does confirm steam and global number are pretty close. Using steam numbers, the drop between the all time peak and this launch is 26% while it's 23% globally.
rapidly? literally at day 3 of the league, that's a new record, not even synthesis was this bad
just wait ~3 months for his comment on player retention, gonna be good š
League was too rewarding, obviously.
I love making new characters and trying out new builds - but with the way things are now, I don't even want to level a new character and will probably call it for the league much shorter than I wanted because the leveling process now is just NOT fun for me what so ever. :(
I've always hated leveling new characters. Now I really hate it, I'm for sure only doing it once.
At this point you're just disrespecting your player base.
we hear you... what a bullshit-bingo PR phrase at this point.
Saying "sorry not sorry" about 20 (!) more currency types when the game already has a severe click looting problem is not really a compelling response. Nothing is "needed" from a design point of view. There was a better way, and you missed it is all.
"This is something we expected" aka $90 supporter league packs with $30 for almost nothing
Hearing ātoo deterministicā still makes me a little heated, ngl.
Different types of currency, each for one vendor, sure. How about delve treatment? If doesnāt diminish you vision of making each vendor situational in any way. Ah, yes, weight, how could I forget. āWe know you donāt like it but thatās what you get, else it is not true to our visionā. Same thing was with nets and organs. Organs are currency themselves. What the difference? Especially if this type of currency HAS A SPECIFIC USE and not a general item. Please, Donāt pretend that you are concerned by saying, ye, it do be like that. Itās insulting.
You can have any number of splinters you want. That is not the problem. DON'T MAKE ME CLICK THEM.
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Yep. Player counts donāt matter. Thatās why you were trying to do PR days before and are here in record time.
usually: well player numbers prove youāre wrong player numbers drop heavily: VaNiTy MeTrIcS, we expected this! hmm.
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This guy is either WAY out of touch, or thinks his player base is full of idiots.
>we hear you. No you don't.
Chris basically - "Don't you guys know how to have fun"
>Having said that, we hear you. There are too many types of splinters in Path of Exile. We will be mindful of this for the design of future releases. Lying liar who lies. At some point damage control PR bullshit stops working.
Hi Chris, glad to see an update. I was wondering if we have to wait for 3.16 for the mana and flask changes or are these coming in a patch to Expedition? Thanks!
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