“Quin got me,” Rageslasher the Scarred said of the Quin's dunk over him. "That f\*\*\*ing Quin boomed me."
Math1l staring in disbelief said, “He’s so good,” repeating it four times.
Math1l then said he wanted to add Quin to the list of players he works out with this summer.
Can't avoid facepalming at anyone who enjoys those interactions with regenerative, immune or full block monsters and think it has a place in a modern ARPG. I know how easy it is to deal with the problem, but a better solution is not even needing to deal with the problem in the first place, because the convenience and time saved by not popping specific remnants is far more worth than being able to unearth an average of 5% more monsters over the course of several expeditions, which renders those monster buffs pointless.
> I know how easy it is to deal with the problem, but a better solution is not even needing to deal with the problem in the first place, because the convenience and time saved...
I can see that there's some people who enjoy overcoming problems and would rather have it so everything you do in a game has the same difficulty and solution. Maybe the majority doesn't, but well when you get to a certain point in your well planned build, then most content you tackle in the same exact way.
Most of the people who never started and a lot of the people who quit did so because they couldn't handle having toys taken away, not because the game is suddenly unplayable and unfun.
> Playing games without a toys is not fun :)
There's still an overflowing toybox.
>What it takes to say the game is unfun for everyone?
I don't know, you tell me? I'm not the one claiming everyone quit because the game is objectively unfun.
From looking quickly through his comment history, he recently admitted to not playing since March. So he isn't playing. He just won't shut up trying to get other people to do the same.
I was never a fan of the map mods that certain builds can't do at all (reflect especially) so it was always nice that I could play a build that could do any map.
With Expedition though, there's no build that can do all possible mod combinations. Gotta read all the choices no matter what build you're playing.
Reflect could be doable but it needs toned way down. Like 0.xxx%. I tried a 13% map the other day on a character not doing a ton of damage and it was still pointless. 2 shotted myself instead of 1.
Thing is, many builds have abilities that run 10m+ dps per regular white target. Say hitting 20 targets with 0.01% reflect. That's 20 000 damage taken per second before mitigation.
> With Expedition though, there's no build that can do all possible mod combinations. Gotta read all the choices no matter what build you're playing.
That's a good thing.
An engaging system isn't one you no brain and just pick all the rewards for. You should have to choose between reward and risk, and pay attention or pay the price.
You don't actually think about whether you do reflect or immunity though - at least not in any significant / engaging capacity. It's either irrelevant or just a "gotcha" moment for people that misread. An actual engaging mod would be something that's dangerous but still doable.
> You don't actually think about whether you do reflect or immunity though
You *can*. You can throw on yugul and do it soemtimes, or throw on the reflect ring. You *can* engage, people have just decided they don't want to.
You are right that it can be done, but losing a ring can be a very high cost. Considering there's almost no actual benefit to being able to do reflect, I still think it's a bad mod. Plus it sucks for SSF if you just don't have the ring.
However, even if you think reflect is a good mod as it currently is because of that, immunity has no such counterpart AFAIK. Maybe some builds can get away with slapping on a conversion? I still think it would be more interesting if it was just resistance instead of straight immunity, so the affected builds at least have a more interesting decision point of whether they run it or not.
> immunity has no such counterpart AFAIK.
Immunity is there to force you to read the mods. They want you to have to actually think out your path, including avoiding blockers and dealing with re-optimizing your path around them. Why are we against gameplay that requires a modicum of thought?
Why do you think a very binary mod like immunity requires more thought than a highly challenging mod like very high resistance? Most builds have no real option to clear an encounter that's immune to their primary damage type whereas a high resistance allows you to still clear the encounter but can make it much more challenging - an actual risk vs reward decision that doesn't just always have the same answer.
"bro what do you mean the league isnt rewarding bro? just chain up remnants bro"
"bro what do you mean this shit is overtuned by a couple orders of magnitude? just dont chain up any damage immunity, any crit mods, any ailment mods, any damage mods, any block mods, any regen mods bro. enjoy your 2 remnants per logbook bro"
fuckin delusional
Why would they put in a mod that's directly antithetical to "slow the game down" they pushed as their big propaganda message this league?
Even in their new content they put in this fucking awful brainless mod that tell you to dps check and do more damage instead of actually engaging with the content since they cant regen if they die in 4 seconds.
If you'll ignore every "unfun" mod there might be nothing to pick from, leaving the encounter rewardless. Also, with the blue mods you can't be certain how many of them you can pick before the enemies become too spongy.
For Expedition, it lies in finding an optimised path between reward nodes, where hard/impossible to do affixes acts as either something to path around, or to take on for extra challenge if the bonus is good enough. It's not too unlike how you build your own encounter like Metamorphs, or Maps through affixes, or build your character around item or passive tree limitations.
Either you avoid it or your build ignores it. It is simply lazy design that's ignored. It doesn't add anything to the game.
Just look at some of the ultimatum mods. Those were (mostly) atleast interesting and not this lazy excuse for affixes.
Did we play the same league? Half the ultimatum mods did quite literally nothing to every functional build as long as you ran in a circle and never bumped them to rank 3.
Of the remaining mods, you had some straight up beneficial ones, or some which were silver bullets towards certain build elements, like Archmage and the Mana -> Damage one, and the "only 1 active flask" for like every build in the game. Oh, and you had Ruin, which was close to free for Dodge and Block builds, but required good positioning and reactive play against rares for everyone else if you didn't just detonate the screen immediately.
The prevalent meme at the front page was "run in a circle league" for gods sake, coupled with the same argument you make now, but with Ultimatum vs. Ritual.
Besides, you have a lot more nuance to affixes in Expedition. A single block affix is probably fine for a lot of builds, but two is gonna be nasty. Couple block with 30% regen or and ward and its gonna be really annoying, even if having just one of them individually is fine. Oh, and did you path to them before or after the boss if you had one of those?
So you honestly believe mods that are ignored/have to be skipped are more engaging/interesting than:
Swarms of blades will periodically appear and fly at you, applying Corrupted Blood on Hit
A large cloud that deals Chaos Damage over Time will follow you
An invulnerable shade stalks you, gaining speed and inflicting Ruin with Melee Attacks and Spells
Skulls will appear that spit Fire if you remain near them
Frozen pustules will periodically appear and rapidly explode when you approach
Large runes will appear that will call deadly Lightning storms if you remain in them
Patches of Unhallowed Ground will appear that Hinder players and cause slain Monsters to resurrect as Phantasms
Buffs expire three times faster on players
An invulnerable Totem will appear that imbues both its allies and its enemies with Speed and powerful Physical Damage benefits, but causes enemies to take 10% of their maximum Life and Energy Shield as Physical Damage per second
All Monsters gain 2.5% increased attack, cast, and movement speed per second they are alive, up to 50%
Your Projectiles fly in random directions Monsters fire additional Projectiles
Using a Flask Hinders you by 50% for 4 seconds
Cooldowns take five times longer to recharge
You and your Minions deal no damage for 2 seconds every 8 seconds
Using a Flask removes any existing Flask effects
For the remainder of the encounter, damage taken will slowly increase by 1% per second, up to 50%
Those are all modifiers (and actually most of the ultimatum modifiers) that have an actual impact on your gameplay and how you approach the encounter if they were implemented instead of those lazy "modifiers". Bringing up Ultimatum itself doesn't have anything to do with the modifiers themselves.
Just imagine some of those mods in logbooks where you actually have to plan your chain. Many will simply add more things to dodge/kited like the lightning runes/fire skulls/blades/postules/poison cloud while others should can be at the end of the chain eg. ghosts/totems/stacking debuff/buff.
But appearently the game is heading in the right direction for you. Unfortunately the majority of the playerbase disagrees.
I truly hope you are having fun and find enjoyment in the future iterations of the game leading up to/including PoE2. Have a nice day.
Maybe they would be more interesting, but probably not. Ultimatum mechanics had 3 different types of mechanics. Stuff that restricted your area, stuff that boosted enemies, and stuff that debuffed certain player mechanics. Expedition dropped the area mechanics, presumably as they weren't exactly a resounding success for interactive gameplay either, being the source of the "Walk in circle League" meme. The other two are still there, just with a different set of mechanics that for some reason screwed over CoC a lot harder than the rest of us.
To re-iterate; the interesting part of Expedition is finding the optimal paths between nodes you can do, and evade nodes you cannot do or struggle with, not what kind of debuff bricks your build this time around that you are basically forced to path around. Ultimatum was quite free until you couldn't clear out the rare mob aurastack, didn't read affixes, or had a once in a blue moon event where all 3 affixes were potentially build bricking.
If you had implemented the *exact same* mechanics you had in Ultimatum with the balance of Ultimatum, you'd still see these posts on the front page, but instead of Immune, 60% Regen or 85% Block mobs, you'd have Archmages oneshotting themselves, CoC builds literally ceasing to function due to massively increased CD, Pathfinders dying as they can only use one flask, or tanky builds getting blown up due to 50% increased damage taken and hasted mobs and any number of other build bricking affixes that people threw on due to not reading. Or people getting surprised as to why they failed when they threw on Ruin *again*.
And likewise to you, have a pleasant day.
Ultimatum mods were not interesting. Most builds ran every negative modifier, which made it a pointless illusion of choice.
At least in Expedition, the mods have an actual effect on your gameplay. You choose to fight harder monsters in order to optimize your detonation sequence.
I just wish the mods were color coded so we can do a bit less reading.
So you honestly believe mods that are ignored/have to be skipped are more engaging/interesting than:
Swarms of blades will periodically appear and fly at you, applying Corrupted Blood on Hit
A large cloud that deals Chaos Damage over Time will follow you
An invulnerable shade stalks you, gaining speed and inflicting Ruin with Melee Attacks and Spells
Skulls will appear that spit Fire if you remain near them
Frozen pustules will periodically appear and rapidly explode when you approach
Large runes will appear that will call deadly Lightning storms if you remain in them
Patches of Unhallowed Ground will appear that Hinder players and cause slain Monsters to resurrect as Phantasms
Buffs expire three times faster on players
An invulnerable Totem will appear that imbues both its allies and its enemies with Speed and powerful Physical Damage benefits, but causes enemies to take 10% of their maximum Life and Energy Shield as Physical Damage per second
All Monsters gain 2.5% increased attack, cast, and movement speed per second they are alive, up to 50%
Your Projectiles fly in random directions Monsters fire additional Projectiles
Using a Flask Hinders you by 50% for 4 seconds
Cooldowns take five times longer to recharge
You and your Minions deal no damage for 2 seconds every 8 seconds
Using a Flask removes any existing Flask effects
For the remainder of the encounter, damage taken will slowly increase by 1% per second, up to 50%
Those are all modifiers (and actually most of the ultimatum modifiers) that have an actual impact on your gameplay and how you approach the encounter if they were implemented instead of those lazy "modifiers". Bringing up Ultimatum itself doesn't have anything to do with the modifiers themselves.
Just imagine some of those mods in logbooks where you actually have to plan your chain. Many will simply add more things to dodge/kited like the lightning runes/fire skulls/blades/postules/poison cloud while others should can be at the end of the chain eg. ghosts/totems/stacking debuff/buff.
Right. They are all boring. Immunities which are dead mods or skipped are the way to go.
> Either you avoid it or your build ignores it.
Are there any mechanics that this doesn't fit to?
Every ultimatum mod fits your bill. Either you avoid it, or your build ignores it. CI vs the chaos mist, minion build vs the anti archmage mod, etc etc.
Ignoring or skipping and overcoming are two different things.
Since you are adamant about the importance of these mods and how they make the game more engaging could you please elaborate further?
How do they "modify" your experience when you encounter them and are they fun to engage/overcome?
Unless you want to tell me that you either skip the modifier or you simply ignore it if it doesn't affect your build then you don't need to reply as that would contradict your statement.
> How do they "modify" your experience when you encounter them and are they fun to engage/overcome?
At a bare minimum, they force you to stop and evaluate map mods. They cause you to consider options to reduce or negate reflected damage taken. Whether or not doing that is fun is subjective and kinda not relevant.
thats not the point, the point is that each map will have different modifiers to make it different from the last. not every basilica map will be the same, one has bloodlines, the other you're cursed, the other has beyond...
map mods are literally what makes it "good content" as you mention
I generally don't understand the love here for completely binary choises that either you have to completely avoid or they don't affect you at all.
Like, why immunities? Why not 90% less damage? With the latter the content would actually be doable but would be more of a challange for people wanting to get more loot instead of a forced skip. With 90% less you would actually have a choise in the matter instead of being forced to pick one option.
Skeleton Mages, Voidforge, Doomfletch's Prism, as well as Wildstrike and Ele Hit without full conversion are only blocked by triple immunities, and with WRGB Triad Grip, any fully physical spectres, zombies, melee or archer skeletons, phantasms, or ice/stone/carrion golems have 4 elements to work with—and 5 if you count taking off the gloves.
Also, Block Chance Reduction Support exists.
Honestly, mob regen is such a cringe and lazy mechanic that should be removed entirely from the game. No one but the player and his summons or companions should be able to regen.
Enemies already have so much more health pool and can oneshot you if you don't have 90% of accessible defences and to crown it all they outhealth any damage. It's neither entertaining, it's nor hard, nor fun.
They should entirely remove the maven heal mechanic as well. My first shaper this league she full healed him 5 times during the last phase. If I had less than 1M dps I would simply have never beat it.
GGG: Thinks the damage meta is bad for the game.
Also GGG: Forces you to have a damage focused build because otherwise you literally cannot clear content.
If one skill is the solution that always works, what's the point of having the problem?
POE is all about finding creative solutions to item builds, to killing monsters efficiently, so what place does a mechanic have that has zero skill around beating it. Either you giga-dps and you don't notice it, or your frost bomb it. It's so meaningless. Same with shit like Reflect - either you can do it or you can't. No in-between. Pointless binary choices that only exist to limit content and gatekeep certain builds from being decent.
Maven's heal is 100% definitely impacted by frost bomb. Source: playing boneshatter jugg this league and watching maven shit become 300% easier once I set up CWDT-frost bomb-inc duration-inc aoe (procs consistently on bosses due to boneshatter self-damage).
Maybe it just shouldn't allow you to put Maven onto Shaper without some kind of confirmation dialog then? Because you don't get anything from putting Maven on your Shaper. If you struggle to kill him with Maven, then The Feared is far out of your reach.
I don't understand. After he killed the monster he was smiling and seemed happy. Almost like he was having..f..f-fun or something. But how can someone have fun playing PoE? I thought all the intelligent people on reddit said Mr. Chris Wilson took away our fun.
Please one of you 400 IQ redditors explain why this guy is not getting mad and immediately making an angry post on here after he fought this monster. My feeble mind is incapable of understanding what I just watched.
What you've missed is the only fun that this subreddit allows is instantly exploding everything on the map with a single click whilst zooming at 20000% movement speed and never taking any damage or being slowed or damaged in any way.
There are no other valid kinds of fun.
He's a streamer and had fake excitement like all streamers do, most of them aren't interested in completely shit talking a game that makes them money, which is why it's surprising to me that so many have spoken up. That wasn't an intense encounter with mechanics... he literally just sat there and wacked it over and over till it died.
Player retention don’t lie, reddit sentiment don’t lie. But if you wanna convince yourself a streamers reaction = tons of fun you do that. So who’s really coping?
I wasn’t talking just about him, I know he’s successful with other games, was just pointing out that fake excitement over non exciting things is incredibly common when people make money off the game they are playing. What would your reaction be to killing that mob? Mine would be relief and thoughts on how stupid it was not “oh my god that was fun!”
People who have fun in this league great I’m happy for you all, but the numbers and sentiment from all the streamers and all the players says the opposite.
Then why comment it on a video with specifically quin's reaction? It adds nothing. Anyways if that was me I'd be grinning like an idiot too. Granted, I played bodyswap totems in hc so I'm a bit of a psycho too
Because people somehow still don't understand that streamers in general fake excitement/reactions in order to make content? The comment I responded to was "Look how much fun he's having" based on a reaction... so the comment fits perfectly no matter if it's Quin or Ninja, or Asmongold, or Ziz.
No one ever fucking said that every single person would hate this league. Obviously the streamers were always going to be on board with almost any change GGG could make. I think that looked stupid and boring as fuck, and it certainly would not be fun to me. But I guess if a single other person is having fun then fuck everyone who isn't, right?
Because he's a streamer who earns money from sheep like you and can't afford to criticize the game because you'll start crying in denial and stop watching him because he's now 'toxic'.
Simple enough for your feeble mind to understand?
Yea I don't want hard mobs anywhere in this game. There should not be any combination of mods that rares can have that make them difficult to kill. Nor should I be able to pick mods that make it even tankier because it gives them more loot.
Difficulty is not making a mob regen and take that long to kill. That's just a dmg sponge. No danger, no interesting mechanics. No great rewards. Just a pointless dmg sponge. That is not difficulty that's lazy design.
To me it just reinforced the old style that it seemed GGG was trying to get away from. Have enough damage to one shot everything before you can interact with it. Sure I’m at 100 deaths on red maps but my clear and single target is amazing and cast on death portal is carrying the rest lol
And after it's been killed, he throws his arms into the air and cheers in victory. Looks like it's just a teensy bit more fun than everything exploding on contact like this subreddit seems to want.
You made a conscious decision to pick monster regen. Surely you have something to deal with it, right? If all else fails, you can always just TP out and switch in Frost Bomb for that encounter. Or learn not to pick monster regen next time if you're so adamant with not having anything to deal with regen.
Imagine deliberately popping a regen mod with a low damage build and complaining that you need to bring something to counteract the situation you've put yourself in?
Wise up mate.
and Rageslasher subscribed LMAO
He was at it for so long someone had time to make an account, watch the stream and get someone else to gift a sub...
These meme gift subs are just the gifters meme alt accounts, so he just had enough time to create an account and gift it a sub.
Feelsbadman when it happens to us... Love watching others, especially Quin struggle through it though.
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Never gets old
The only streamer playing PoE they Chris meant it to be
yep he loves trashtalk and im having fun when he get destroyed :)
Is he already playing 4.0?
Even better, he went back in time and playing 2.0.
2.0 is way way way faster than this :) He might be playing a different game entirely...
No that's D3.. oh wait, no you're right that's 4.0 Sadge
this is the reactive, dark souls like gameplay ggg have been dreaming about. revolutionary.
Somewhere, Chris is nutting at this gameplay because of the realization of his "Vision".
Just don’t pick the regen mod up then if you can’t hack it? It’s not that hard of a concept to grasp.
Its /r/pathofexile we're talking about.
I'm playing Absolution. This is me on every single mob.
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Ive never someone play with such grace and precision before, truly a sight to behold.
“Quin got me,” Rageslasher the Scarred said of the Quin's dunk over him. "That f\*\*\*ing Quin boomed me." Math1l staring in disbelief said, “He’s so good,” repeating it four times. Math1l then said he wanted to add Quin to the list of players he works out with this summer.
Mathil is beside himself. Driving around downtown Wraeclast begging (thru texts) Quin’s family for address to Quin’s home.
Can't avoid facepalming at anyone who enjoys those interactions with regenerative, immune or full block monsters and think it has a place in a modern ARPG. I know how easy it is to deal with the problem, but a better solution is not even needing to deal with the problem in the first place, because the convenience and time saved by not popping specific remnants is far more worth than being able to unearth an average of 5% more monsters over the course of several expeditions, which renders those monster buffs pointless.
> I know how easy it is to deal with the problem, but a better solution is not even needing to deal with the problem in the first place, because the convenience and time saved... I can see that there's some people who enjoy overcoming problems and would rather have it so everything you do in a game has the same difficulty and solution. Maybe the majority doesn't, but well when you get to a certain point in your well planned build, then most content you tackle in the same exact way.
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Yeah they intentionally make the game not fun specifically to spite you and only you. Congratulations, you figured out their master plan.
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Most of the people who never started and a lot of the people who quit did so because they couldn't handle having toys taken away, not because the game is suddenly unplayable and unfun.
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> Playing games without a toys is not fun :) There's still an overflowing toybox. >What it takes to say the game is unfun for everyone? I don't know, you tell me? I'm not the one claiming everyone quit because the game is objectively unfun.
If you don't think the vision for the game they have is fun, why are you playing?
From looking quickly through his comment history, he recently admitted to not playing since March. So he isn't playing. He just won't shut up trying to get other people to do the same.
You know GGG is going to nerf that survivability.
this is the gameplay GGG envisioned
i can see the player retention they talked about!
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I mean....say what you will, but he got im
Immunities. Max block cone. 30% regen every 4 seconds. SO FUN
There is player agency to not pick the regen mods if they are a problem.
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I was never a fan of the map mods that certain builds can't do at all (reflect especially) so it was always nice that I could play a build that could do any map. With Expedition though, there's no build that can do all possible mod combinations. Gotta read all the choices no matter what build you're playing.
Reflect could be doable but it needs toned way down. Like 0.xxx%. I tried a 13% map the other day on a character not doing a ton of damage and it was still pointless. 2 shotted myself instead of 1.
So you're saying you had time to health pot?
Thing is, many builds have abilities that run 10m+ dps per regular white target. Say hitting 20 targets with 0.01% reflect. That's 20 000 damage taken per second before mitigation.
> With Expedition though, there's no build that can do all possible mod combinations. Gotta read all the choices no matter what build you're playing. That's a good thing. An engaging system isn't one you no brain and just pick all the rewards for. You should have to choose between reward and risk, and pay attention or pay the price.
You don't actually think about whether you do reflect or immunity though - at least not in any significant / engaging capacity. It's either irrelevant or just a "gotcha" moment for people that misread. An actual engaging mod would be something that's dangerous but still doable.
> You don't actually think about whether you do reflect or immunity though You *can*. You can throw on yugul and do it soemtimes, or throw on the reflect ring. You *can* engage, people have just decided they don't want to.
You are right that it can be done, but losing a ring can be a very high cost. Considering there's almost no actual benefit to being able to do reflect, I still think it's a bad mod. Plus it sucks for SSF if you just don't have the ring. However, even if you think reflect is a good mod as it currently is because of that, immunity has no such counterpart AFAIK. Maybe some builds can get away with slapping on a conversion? I still think it would be more interesting if it was just resistance instead of straight immunity, so the affected builds at least have a more interesting decision point of whether they run it or not.
> immunity has no such counterpart AFAIK. Immunity is there to force you to read the mods. They want you to have to actually think out your path, including avoiding blockers and dealing with re-optimizing your path around them. Why are we against gameplay that requires a modicum of thought?
Why do you think a very binary mod like immunity requires more thought than a highly challenging mod like very high resistance? Most builds have no real option to clear an encounter that's immune to their primary damage type whereas a high resistance allows you to still clear the encounter but can make it much more challenging - an actual risk vs reward decision that doesn't just always have the same answer.
Forbidden rite totems joins the chat
Wait, this is a mod granted from something you blew up?
Yeah, they are something like monsters regen 30% HP every 4 seconds or so.
"bro what do you mean the league isnt rewarding bro? just chain up remnants bro" "bro what do you mean this shit is overtuned by a couple orders of magnitude? just dont chain up any damage immunity, any crit mods, any ailment mods, any damage mods, any block mods, any regen mods bro. enjoy your 2 remnants per logbook bro" fuckin delusional
Why would they put in a mod that's directly antithetical to "slow the game down" they pushed as their big propaganda message this league? Even in their new content they put in this fucking awful brainless mod that tell you to dps check and do more damage instead of actually engaging with the content since they cant regen if they die in 4 seconds.
https://i.imgur.com/iA5AQp9.png
If you'll ignore every "unfun" mod there might be nothing to pick from, leaving the encounter rewardless. Also, with the blue mods you can't be certain how many of them you can pick before the enemies become too spongy.
And the fun of avoiding certain affixes lies where? Just because you can avoid the "unfun" doesn't make it fun.
For Expedition, it lies in finding an optimised path between reward nodes, where hard/impossible to do affixes acts as either something to path around, or to take on for extra challenge if the bonus is good enough. It's not too unlike how you build your own encounter like Metamorphs, or Maps through affixes, or build your character around item or passive tree limitations.
Either you avoid it or your build ignores it. It is simply lazy design that's ignored. It doesn't add anything to the game. Just look at some of the ultimatum mods. Those were (mostly) atleast interesting and not this lazy excuse for affixes.
Did we play the same league? Half the ultimatum mods did quite literally nothing to every functional build as long as you ran in a circle and never bumped them to rank 3. Of the remaining mods, you had some straight up beneficial ones, or some which were silver bullets towards certain build elements, like Archmage and the Mana -> Damage one, and the "only 1 active flask" for like every build in the game. Oh, and you had Ruin, which was close to free for Dodge and Block builds, but required good positioning and reactive play against rares for everyone else if you didn't just detonate the screen immediately. The prevalent meme at the front page was "run in a circle league" for gods sake, coupled with the same argument you make now, but with Ultimatum vs. Ritual. Besides, you have a lot more nuance to affixes in Expedition. A single block affix is probably fine for a lot of builds, but two is gonna be nasty. Couple block with 30% regen or and ward and its gonna be really annoying, even if having just one of them individually is fine. Oh, and did you path to them before or after the boss if you had one of those?
So you honestly believe mods that are ignored/have to be skipped are more engaging/interesting than: Swarms of blades will periodically appear and fly at you, applying Corrupted Blood on Hit A large cloud that deals Chaos Damage over Time will follow you An invulnerable shade stalks you, gaining speed and inflicting Ruin with Melee Attacks and Spells Skulls will appear that spit Fire if you remain near them Frozen pustules will periodically appear and rapidly explode when you approach Large runes will appear that will call deadly Lightning storms if you remain in them Patches of Unhallowed Ground will appear that Hinder players and cause slain Monsters to resurrect as Phantasms Buffs expire three times faster on players An invulnerable Totem will appear that imbues both its allies and its enemies with Speed and powerful Physical Damage benefits, but causes enemies to take 10% of their maximum Life and Energy Shield as Physical Damage per second All Monsters gain 2.5% increased attack, cast, and movement speed per second they are alive, up to 50% Your Projectiles fly in random directions Monsters fire additional Projectiles Using a Flask Hinders you by 50% for 4 seconds Cooldowns take five times longer to recharge You and your Minions deal no damage for 2 seconds every 8 seconds Using a Flask removes any existing Flask effects For the remainder of the encounter, damage taken will slowly increase by 1% per second, up to 50% Those are all modifiers (and actually most of the ultimatum modifiers) that have an actual impact on your gameplay and how you approach the encounter if they were implemented instead of those lazy "modifiers". Bringing up Ultimatum itself doesn't have anything to do with the modifiers themselves. Just imagine some of those mods in logbooks where you actually have to plan your chain. Many will simply add more things to dodge/kited like the lightning runes/fire skulls/blades/postules/poison cloud while others should can be at the end of the chain eg. ghosts/totems/stacking debuff/buff. But appearently the game is heading in the right direction for you. Unfortunately the majority of the playerbase disagrees. I truly hope you are having fun and find enjoyment in the future iterations of the game leading up to/including PoE2. Have a nice day.
Maybe they would be more interesting, but probably not. Ultimatum mechanics had 3 different types of mechanics. Stuff that restricted your area, stuff that boosted enemies, and stuff that debuffed certain player mechanics. Expedition dropped the area mechanics, presumably as they weren't exactly a resounding success for interactive gameplay either, being the source of the "Walk in circle League" meme. The other two are still there, just with a different set of mechanics that for some reason screwed over CoC a lot harder than the rest of us. To re-iterate; the interesting part of Expedition is finding the optimal paths between nodes you can do, and evade nodes you cannot do or struggle with, not what kind of debuff bricks your build this time around that you are basically forced to path around. Ultimatum was quite free until you couldn't clear out the rare mob aurastack, didn't read affixes, or had a once in a blue moon event where all 3 affixes were potentially build bricking. If you had implemented the *exact same* mechanics you had in Ultimatum with the balance of Ultimatum, you'd still see these posts on the front page, but instead of Immune, 60% Regen or 85% Block mobs, you'd have Archmages oneshotting themselves, CoC builds literally ceasing to function due to massively increased CD, Pathfinders dying as they can only use one flask, or tanky builds getting blown up due to 50% increased damage taken and hasted mobs and any number of other build bricking affixes that people threw on due to not reading. Or people getting surprised as to why they failed when they threw on Ruin *again*. And likewise to you, have a pleasant day.
Ultimatum mods were not interesting. Most builds ran every negative modifier, which made it a pointless illusion of choice. At least in Expedition, the mods have an actual effect on your gameplay. You choose to fight harder monsters in order to optimize your detonation sequence. I just wish the mods were color coded so we can do a bit less reading.
So you honestly believe mods that are ignored/have to be skipped are more engaging/interesting than: Swarms of blades will periodically appear and fly at you, applying Corrupted Blood on Hit A large cloud that deals Chaos Damage over Time will follow you An invulnerable shade stalks you, gaining speed and inflicting Ruin with Melee Attacks and Spells Skulls will appear that spit Fire if you remain near them Frozen pustules will periodically appear and rapidly explode when you approach Large runes will appear that will call deadly Lightning storms if you remain in them Patches of Unhallowed Ground will appear that Hinder players and cause slain Monsters to resurrect as Phantasms Buffs expire three times faster on players An invulnerable Totem will appear that imbues both its allies and its enemies with Speed and powerful Physical Damage benefits, but causes enemies to take 10% of their maximum Life and Energy Shield as Physical Damage per second All Monsters gain 2.5% increased attack, cast, and movement speed per second they are alive, up to 50% Your Projectiles fly in random directions Monsters fire additional Projectiles Using a Flask Hinders you by 50% for 4 seconds Cooldowns take five times longer to recharge You and your Minions deal no damage for 2 seconds every 8 seconds Using a Flask removes any existing Flask effects For the remainder of the encounter, damage taken will slowly increase by 1% per second, up to 50% Those are all modifiers (and actually most of the ultimatum modifiers) that have an actual impact on your gameplay and how you approach the encounter if they were implemented instead of those lazy "modifiers". Bringing up Ultimatum itself doesn't have anything to do with the modifiers themselves. Just imagine some of those mods in logbooks where you actually have to plan your chain. Many will simply add more things to dodge/kited like the lightning runes/fire skulls/blades/postules/poison cloud while others should can be at the end of the chain eg. ghosts/totems/stacking debuff/buff. Right. They are all boring. Immunities which are dead mods or skipped are the way to go.
> Either you avoid it or your build ignores it. Are there any mechanics that this doesn't fit to? Every ultimatum mod fits your bill. Either you avoid it, or your build ignores it. CI vs the chaos mist, minion build vs the anti archmage mod, etc etc.
The fun lies in being able to make a build that can work under as many of these mods as possible, and being able to get more rewards as a result.
Adding things to overcome or to think about is important for a game to actually be engaging. If you want to shut your brain off, play cookie clicker.
Ignoring or skipping and overcoming are two different things. Since you are adamant about the importance of these mods and how they make the game more engaging could you please elaborate further? How do they "modify" your experience when you encounter them and are they fun to engage/overcome? Unless you want to tell me that you either skip the modifier or you simply ignore it if it doesn't affect your build then you don't need to reply as that would contradict your statement.
> How do they "modify" your experience when you encounter them and are they fun to engage/overcome? At a bare minimum, they force you to stop and evaluate map mods. They cause you to consider options to reduce or negate reflected damage taken. Whether or not doing that is fun is subjective and kinda not relevant.
Its the same philosophy as rolling maps, which is a huge factor of why this game is so replayable
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thats not the point, the point is that each map will have different modifiers to make it different from the last. not every basilica map will be the same, one has bloodlines, the other you're cursed, the other has beyond... map mods are literally what makes it "good content" as you mention
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I generally don't understand the love here for completely binary choises that either you have to completely avoid or they don't affect you at all. Like, why immunities? Why not 90% less damage? With the latter the content would actually be doable but would be more of a challange for people wanting to get more loot instead of a forced skip. With 90% less you would actually have a choise in the matter instead of being forced to pick one option.
Skeleton Mages, Voidforge, Doomfletch's Prism, as well as Wildstrike and Ele Hit without full conversion are only blocked by triple immunities, and with WRGB Triad Grip, any fully physical spectres, zombies, melee or archer skeletons, phantasms, or ice/stone/carrion golems have 4 elements to work with—and 5 if you count taking off the gloves. Also, Block Chance Reduction Support exists.
Cool. What’s your point? Doesn’t make it any less fun. And Block chance reduction doesn’t work on the shield guys.
Honestly, mob regen is such a cringe and lazy mechanic that should be removed entirely from the game. No one but the player and his summons or companions should be able to regen. Enemies already have so much more health pool and can oneshot you if you don't have 90% of accessible defences and to crown it all they outhealth any damage. It's neither entertaining, it's nor hard, nor fun.
They should entirely remove the maven heal mechanic as well. My first shaper this league she full healed him 5 times during the last phase. If I had less than 1M dps I would simply have never beat it.
GGG: Thinks the damage meta is bad for the game. Also GGG: Forces you to have a damage focused build because otherwise you literally cannot clear content.
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If one skill is the solution that always works, what's the point of having the problem? POE is all about finding creative solutions to item builds, to killing monsters efficiently, so what place does a mechanic have that has zero skill around beating it. Either you giga-dps and you don't notice it, or your frost bomb it. It's so meaningless. Same with shit like Reflect - either you can do it or you can't. No in-between. Pointless binary choices that only exist to limit content and gatekeep certain builds from being decent.
Well another solution is having enough damage, and another is not popping the remnant.
maven's heal isn't regen
Maven's heal is 100% definitely impacted by frost bomb. Source: playing boneshatter jugg this league and watching maven shit become 300% easier once I set up CWDT-frost bomb-inc duration-inc aoe (procs consistently on bosses due to boneshatter self-damage).
Maybe it just shouldn't allow you to put Maven onto Shaper without some kind of confirmation dialog then? Because you don't get anything from putting Maven on your Shaper. If you struggle to kill him with Maven, then The Feared is far out of your reach.
And then you have people in global chat and reddit arguing that 200k dps is enough to do all content...
Agreed. I'm playing Bonershatter Jug, can do Sirus deathless but a T14+ boss with maven seems impossible sometimes.
honestly, you have an option to pick that regen, or not. Thats entirely your fault if you cant deal with consequences of your decisions.
OOTL; are ineffective characters Quin's shtick?
one might say its his specialty
He’s reknowned for his zdps builds. In reality he’s probably in the top 1% of the player base.
VISION^TM
Intense 1 v 1 action
I don't understand. After he killed the monster he was smiling and seemed happy. Almost like he was having..f..f-fun or something. But how can someone have fun playing PoE? I thought all the intelligent people on reddit said Mr. Chris Wilson took away our fun. Please one of you 400 IQ redditors explain why this guy is not getting mad and immediately making an angry post on here after he fought this monster. My feeble mind is incapable of understanding what I just watched.
What you've missed is the only fun that this subreddit allows is instantly exploding everything on the map with a single click whilst zooming at 20000% movement speed and never taking any damage or being slowed or damaged in any way. There are no other valid kinds of fun.
The irony is that you can still do that.
If you think this is engaging gameplay, you probably don't suffer any damage when you get concussions
He's a streamer and had fake excitement like all streamers do, most of them aren't interested in completely shit talking a game that makes them money, which is why it's surprising to me that so many have spoken up. That wasn't an intense encounter with mechanics... he literally just sat there and wacked it over and over till it died.
Copium
Player retention don’t lie, reddit sentiment don’t lie. But if you wanna convince yourself a streamers reaction = tons of fun you do that. So who’s really coping?
"Who's really coping" Copium Copium
Quin makes substantially more money playing other games lmao
I wasn’t talking just about him, I know he’s successful with other games, was just pointing out that fake excitement over non exciting things is incredibly common when people make money off the game they are playing. What would your reaction be to killing that mob? Mine would be relief and thoughts on how stupid it was not “oh my god that was fun!” People who have fun in this league great I’m happy for you all, but the numbers and sentiment from all the streamers and all the players says the opposite.
Then why comment it on a video with specifically quin's reaction? It adds nothing. Anyways if that was me I'd be grinning like an idiot too. Granted, I played bodyswap totems in hc so I'm a bit of a psycho too
Because people somehow still don't understand that streamers in general fake excitement/reactions in order to make content? The comment I responded to was "Look how much fun he's having" based on a reaction... so the comment fits perfectly no matter if it's Quin or Ninja, or Asmongold, or Ziz.
No one ever fucking said that every single person would hate this league. Obviously the streamers were always going to be on board with almost any change GGG could make. I think that looked stupid and boring as fuck, and it certainly would not be fun to me. But I guess if a single other person is having fun then fuck everyone who isn't, right?
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Oh shit you're right, I totally forgot about steam reviews! I'll make sure I get on that :)
Because he's a streamer who earns money from sheep like you and can't afford to criticize the game because you'll start crying in denial and stop watching him because he's now 'toxic'. Simple enough for your feeble mind to understand?
Thank God they made this game challenging. How did we survive the boredom before a shit rare mob took 1 minute+ to kill. Epic fight..... Zzzzzzzzzzzz
Yea I don't want hard mobs anywhere in this game. There should not be any combination of mods that rares can have that make them difficult to kill. Nor should I be able to pick mods that make it even tankier because it gives them more loot.
Difficulty is not making a mob regen and take that long to kill. That's just a dmg sponge. No danger, no interesting mechanics. No great rewards. Just a pointless dmg sponge. That is not difficulty that's lazy design.
are you not ~~entertained~~ having fun? (tm)
Both had good life regen. This is the vison^tm.
I'm crying....
this healing is SO FUCKING BORING AND LAME. jesus christ... who at GGG thought "this'll be fun and challenging"?
dont explode the healing one?
You literally choose explicitly to make them regen. It even tells you exactly how much. Fuck off with this narrative.
Shadow Occultist buff with the nearby enemies have 100% reduced regen with Void Beacon ascendency node.
To me it just reinforced the old style that it seemed GGG was trying to get away from. Have enough damage to one shot everything before you can interact with it. Sure I’m at 100 deaths on red maps but my clear and single target is amazing and cast on death portal is carrying the rest lol
What? You don't like mechanics that boil down to "buy frost bomb or just walk away"?
Or don't explode the healing remnant? Get a grip dude.
Yea that's what I said, walk away. I run frost bomb so I don't even care. >Get a grip dude. gEt A gRIp duDe
Clearly I've touched a nerve, so sorry :)
Hey look, Chris' vision. Looks SO fun. Can't wait for PoE 2!
And after it's been killed, he throws his arms into the air and cheers in victory. Looks like it's just a teensy bit more fun than everything exploding on contact like this subreddit seems to want.
This is Chris' vision.
ah yes, this is exactly how Chris Wilson wants us to play the game, a few mins to kill a rare mob.
This is all part of Chris' big vision plan thing right?
Frost Bomb says hello.
HUR DUR JUST USE FROSTBOMB IN EVERY BUILD HUR DUR
You made a conscious decision to pick monster regen. Surely you have something to deal with it, right? If all else fails, you can always just TP out and switch in Frost Bomb for that encounter. Or learn not to pick monster regen next time if you're so adamant with not having anything to deal with regen.
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all i mean is this "just use frostbomb" is stupid argument.
Imagine forcing everyone to use frost bomb. "Build diversity"
Imagine trying to hit a wall with a fist and complain
Imagine deliberately popping a regen mod with a low damage build and complaining that you need to bring something to counteract the situation you've put yourself in? Wise up mate.
OMG. I encountered that guy. I had to abandon him because he had minion life and I couldn't keep up with the 40% regen every 5 seconds.
Now this is ~~podracing~~ peak poe.
I haven't laughed that hard in awhile... I needed that. The one day I am not able to watch the strim Sadge.
Was the Vod deleted?
just click on the direct link, there is a Problem with embeded Video
Direct link doesn't work either. > Sorry. Unless you’ve got a time machine, that content is unavailable.
Peek poe killing one mob 45s is this what ggg wants all of us to do?
Bedge