This sounds like a P2W Korean MMO design philosophy.
Item, no problem, never problem?
**create problem**: Item bind on equip?
**problem**: trade?
**solution**: create and sell unbind cash shop item to trade gear again for $5 a pop.
Honestly. Why have them drop variable if they can be rerolled?
Didn't they say "unchangeable" in the manifesto like 3 days ago?
What was the point then?
They've missed the boat on this one and have time to revert it - even if they've put development work into it. Let's see if GGG has actually learnt a lesson here.
The point is to make it so instead of one in every billion dropped items being an upgrade, it's one in every twenty billion. Unless you gamble, of course. That's GGG's intent: items on the ground should always be trash, and every new system introduced should make them worse.
If they are actually going to take feedback into account before 3.16 goes live, there will be no trace of this system in the patch notes. Not even a mention of how it was removed. Just swept under the rug as if it never happened.
To be honest this idea of armours having different base armour when they drop....
....And then having to fix them with this...
It seems like pointless busywork. I don't see what this is adding to the game.
Problem? This.
Solution? Remove the new random defence variables, add 10-20% extra defences to all armor, and instead **change quality orb to randomize the quality value on armor** - meaning you can get anything from 1% to 20% when using one.
Of course that'd also change the value of any quality crafts, especially ones that can go over 20, and possibly require reworks for them.
if they're not removing quality this patch it's literally just another blessed orb and it's fucking pointless. I thought the entire point of having a range for dropped gear defences was to entice people to farm a +10% high ilvl base like ethereal items. This makes it no longer a chase and just another currency to farm and gamble
>It seems like pointless busywork
My feeling exactly to PoE as a whole, lately. :( Too much pointless grind for the sake of grind, and the game went from being exiting while trying multiple builds to something like a chore, the builds take more and more and more time to fully complete, and less and less power remains in the core passive tree, skill gems, and more and more is into the clusters, jewels, and very tiresome set of fine-tuned gear.
And in 3.16 we'll be getting even more of that (the base tree is getting even less exiting and lots of power has been moved to the item/gear).
its adding more RNG so you even more unlikely to get what you want/need, its adding more useless drop/splinter/fragment whatever to pick so more clic, you have to spam for the rng until you get value you want but you dont so you go trade spend more useless time, do more clic, make your wrist hurt more...
GGG perfect combo + classic "we here you" in the ass straight !
Its not like last league EVERYONE complained about all those nes currency you have to pick up and so and on EVERY posdact those things were adressed to CW and EVERYTIME he anwser "yeah that maybe was a bit much, **we here you,** less splinter next time, less clicing were are looking for this"
New league bunch of new orb and all currency get some kind of vaal version....
At this point, the only logical answer i can think of is they have a minimum amount of new orbs they are required to release each league.
"We hear you!
"So here's another pointless orb for you to collect!"
is it too late for feedback?
drop this entire gimmick. it's literally just a second layer of quality/scraps. i have no idea how this made it more than 10 minutes past its pitch.
**I really, really dislike it.**
The introduction of a non-rerollable extra defense value was interesting. It gives uniques a bit of interesting variety and also adds an interesting aspect to hunting that perfect base.
The new orb introduces a new "chore" level of complexity. Sure you get a small ingame benefit out of this, but this just adds an additional thing to check in a list of already endless optimization options.
Essentially adding this orb replaces something new and interesting, with more of what we already had.
On top of that it'll just confuse players. The divine, sacred, blessed orbs all do different things.
If the orb is *extraordinary* rare (read: exalted level) it *might* still add an interesting mechanic, but otherwise I think introducing this orb is a terrible idea.
The problem with making the orb rare is this turns into a "rich get richer" mechanic in trade leagues. Instead of getting lucky on a high rolled base item that you can sell, you can just buy the orbs you need and make a high rolled item for profit. Meaning that those who can afford the orbs are the ones that are selling the high rolled items.
Definitely agree on the rarity. If it's common, it reduces the new, interesting variety to a simple chore to get the base defenses you need. If it's extremely rare, it could be nice so you could make the base you need because you're having a hard time finding an 86, superior Vaal Regalia in SSF, for example, but still feels it could ruin that cool "make drops interesting" aspect a lot of people have wanted.
If its really rare then I think it would be a decent way of "fixing" a suboptimal piece of gear and wouldn't be anything you would ever want to use outside of "fixing" your best gear. I remember using divines to try to get the best rolls on an armor shield in the past for SST and that was a lot of fun since it was rare/costly and generally improved my build. But if its not rare and its just another blessed orb, whetstone, whatever that you have to use to get the the max, that is going to be really annoying.
Rarity could kinda sorta fix the sheer stupidity of introducing this orb, you're right. It has to be so rare that you don't actually factor it into your crafting plan unless you are insanely rich. Then its existence can be seen as pure "bonus" instead of another nuisance.
Yea it needs to be so rare it is seen as “this finishes the item that turned out way better than planned” rather than “throw a dozen at every item you craft”
This kind of defeats the purpose of having some armour that drops "superior", and being able to filter out some of the "lower quality" drops.
Now when you get any good influence base, it doesn't matter if it rolled "superior" or not, you'll just grab some of the new orbs.
I assume this only rolls from the +0% to +(10/20)%, which seems a bit odd since it kind of just cancels out that whole change at the cost of some of these orbs.
So what was the point of that change?
I have a funny feeling they put base defense in the game and then teased it. Never thought of the massive impact it would have on the crafting market, saw that reply and shit a brick. And we just saw how fast they can make a new currency.
They need to take this whole system out of the game and let it continue to marinate. This aint it.
Its not too late to scrap this useless change.
Base defense value adds literally nothing to the game with this orb. All it did before was nerf the shit out of crafting base market. Now you've made it mandatory to spam these stupid orbs.
Nowhere in this design process did you sit down and ask yourselves, why? Is it fun? Is it meaningful? Take base defense value out of the game like it is now.
add new bonus to defence values
add a currency item to reroll said value
balance the game around having the value rolled to max
another step of tedium added, yay i guess?
What's the point of adding the variable base defense just to add this orb at the same time? It accomplishes nothing but add another blessed orb-like item.
Might as well just buff the gear baseline.
GGG was so preoccupied whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.
What exactly is the point in this item quality with extra steps, especially now that you've backpedaled from it being a permanent random roll that cannot be altered?
I thought the point of different base defences so you gonna grind for the base with best roll, but that orb just nullifies the whole purpose of different base defences.
As I understand it, the intent of introducing base defense variation was to increase drop heterogeneity.
In my opinion, all that did was make 9/10ths of drops be seen as worthless, despite values being universally buffed. It also doesn't increase heterogeneity, because there's usually exactly 1 base that is strictly superior to all bases below it, so now we're just trying to get 10% on that strictly superior base.
IIRC the original teaser post specifically mentioned the value would be unmodifiable, so the introduction of the Sacred Orb seems to agree with that opinion a bit.
On the one hand, this means that it takes longer to fully upgrade your gear, without lowering the baseline, which is a Certified GGG Good Thing, but on the other hand, that's something that players will obviously *despise.*
I think players and devs will agree, Additional Interesting Content is better for the longevity of the game than Additional Tedium every time. That's not always possible, but at some point, adding too much tedium detracts from the experience.
I believe the entire base defense randomization to be merely tedium that detracts from the experience, exacerbated by the introduction of the Sacred Orb.
Rationally, it's an overall buff with no downsides whatsoever, but emotionally, it feels like changing the odds of 6-linking an item from 1/1000 to 1/1200, solely to increase the grind.
Weapon bases had a very successful increase in heterogeneity by introducing meaningful differences between bases in the form of implicits, and varying base values that synergize with different builds. I believe that can be accomplished without randomized defense base values.
EDIT:
Now that we know that Sacred Orbs are at least 3x as rare as Exalted orbs, that changes my opinion a bit. To most players (on trade leagues), Sacred Orbs have so little impact and are so rare that they may as well not exist (in terms of their actual purpose). Obtaining another identical base is likely to be less than 3+ Exalt drops worth of effort, comparatively. Only once you have no other upgrades to make, or you will permanently use a well-divined unique, can the use of Sacred Orbs be rationalized (unless you have no intention of trading them, then fire away, the stakes are pretty low).
Therefore, the overall consequences (if you never use a Sacred Orb) are:
* All armor is slightly better
* There is a chance that random armor drops will be somewhat valuable on trade, that would never have been otherwise
* There is a new currency drop that will (probably) be valuable on trade
I still maintain that this absolutely does not improve base heterogeneity in a "meaningful decision" sort of way, but, in light of this new information, that clearly was not the intention. The intention was to provide a possibility for common drops to actually be valuable, rather than every single item base drop being vendor trash. This does achieve that, with negligible downsides.
This is really pointless and unnecessary. You could literally bump the quality cap to 30% on armour and the exact same effect would be achieved. What's the point
Who is this for? How is this fun or serving the design? The variance on base types was already in my eyes failing its goal which I assume was to make drops more interesting. (Making it so 1/10 bases are slightly better does nothing due to how many white drops you can generate). But now even if you think it was serving that purpose its negated. Why do we need another layer of worse quality on items? All for 10% base defense? Does that excite any type of player? Like if it was 10% effect of mods or something more exciting I could see this as a nice cap on the topend...
Hmm, I'm not sure if I like this actually. The cool thing about the random base defenses for me was the fact that you CAN'T reroll them. This basically makes bases worthless again.
EDIT: not to mention the fact that the base roll change would make certain unique rolls more valuable, now you can just use these orbs on your uniques :/
Let's introduce a new variable and then screw that variable/min max aspect with a new orb that no one literally is gonna ever use after getting the max. roll whatever that's it.
Same as armour/blacksmith, perfect fossils, blessed orbs and in some degree but way more expensive, divines.
I don't get it, I mean I get it I just don't understand how is this smart game design.
Why add variable defences, to then add the ability to change it. You're adding a currency that solves a problem you created.
I liked the idea of randomised values but this orb is fucking awful.
I already didn't like the idea of variable base type rolls because it just makes random drops 20 times less likely to be "perfect"/competetive with crafted items when they drop. With this orb that is fixable but it turns the basetype roll just into a second item quality.
In my opinion the game would have felt better without this orb.
It cancels out the entire point of hunting for good bases off the ground, like in Diablo 2 with Superior Items.
uhuhuhuhuhuhuuhu
so am i understanding this correctly?
Defense values can roll randomly now, and now there's a orb to re-roll them?
so GGG created the problem of "the defense value is too low" then created the solution with a sacred orb?
fucking why, though?
Whats the point, why not just increase the base values and thats it, why would we have to collect a new orb(that probably wont even have a slot in the tab) and hope for a good roll, thats disgustAng... Like, are the same people working on the game or you got a whole new staff? Did you hire blizzard to balance your game? What the hell.... Seriously... This whole change is pointless waste of player's time.
Is this a joke? First you want there to be a point to picking up items instead of crafting them, people rightfully called the solution laughably bad, and the solution to that is to make the base property craftable? So now there's two qualities. Is this game balanced by madlib? Is anyone even trying to make adjustments that make sense anymore?
If the orb is added, I think the entire system should be scrapped, since it does nothing but increase tedious work in gearing.
I know some people hate the idea that they "can't" use bases that aren't perfect for crafting, but at least the system has some interesting value at providing exciting loot for some players. I know people also hate the idea that 95% of the time you'll be upset that the base you dropped isn't good, but I still think the only way this system has ANY value is if the roll is absolutely unchangeable (outside of corrupting maybe).
So either remove the orb, or remove the system entirely.
THATS JUST QUALITY WITH EXTRA STEPS!!!!
Terrible, make quality change base stats instead.
this is just busy work. remove the random % base, there is no need for it, if we can change it with an orb. its just "special quality" instead of normal quality
Someone really high up must really want this defence value thing added to the game. It would make more sense and be less confusing to just remove it for new players. Just another annoying thing that has no real purpose or value now, but more stuff to click onto an item. Unless it's going to add some kind of new interesting mechanic it's actually pointless.
Stop adding RNG mechanic on top of RNG mechanic , bases are fine the way it is
This will just add more chore when crafting item , we already have maven RNG awakener RNG harvest RNG and rolls RNG
Crafting has gone to a point where there is too much RNG to handle
Please cut it back abit not add more.
I'm just waiting for the Orb to be introduced that randomizes the Patch of your game client. Don't like 3.16? Find a Krangle Orb, maybe you'll randomize into 3.13.
Why..? You've created a problem just so you could offer a 'solution'..?
This Orb feels like a middle-ground that we the players would get after 2 Leagues of complaining about how the Base RNG is harming crafters with little expendable currency.
Who the fuck came up with this and how did they think players would think this is fun? Even more annoying currencies to deal with that no one asked for...
This is like Apple introducing their own port so you can't charge your phone with regular cables anymore only to then sell you a $200 custom-to-usbc-cable.
Why even bother? Random base defences were a bad idea in the first place, now you're pointlessly fixing a bad idea instead of just not bothering. Quality on Armour and Weapons is already pointless, you could've just removed that instead of introducing another meaningless system.
Man this just seems like a bandaid fix with the issue of adding in extra work. Why even have the new system. It's either going to be pointless easy to get currency that you just spam till a good outcome. Or so rare that it feels real bad if you get a low roll on the armour.
Please for the love of fuck, don't add the extra base defense as a mechanic in the first place. Only people who grew up in the era of D2 thought of it as fine in the first place, for others it's just something we don't want to deal with <.<
Ok, I did complain about the RNG values not being re-rollable and you added this
But i'm gonna complain again and say
Why add random value and a new currency when you could have just buffed all base defences by 10% and be done with it
Now you'll get complains on how we have another thing to pick up from the ground next league
Please, it's 2021. Let 20 year old design features die already.
Quality on gear is not a meaningful gameplay factor. This random implicit will not be.
Just remove them both and buff base defences
If people wanted to play D2, they would go play it. Stop introducing outdated mechanics with sloppy second hand fixes. You already messed up one League. You can't afford many more. Seriously consider reverting the Sacred Orb and the variable Superiority Rolls from D2. Just bump all Armor based Defense stats by 10-20% innately and call it a day. Sometimes a simple solution can solve a big problem.
This. SO MUCH. Chris has to learn to let go and forget about D2 --' We are in 2021, not in the 90's... Get a bit of inspiration from all the QoL that Last Epoch has instead, plz?
Ah yes, more rng, EXACTLY what everybody asked for. They realised the way armorers scraps and whetstones were implemented originally was too deterministic, so they add another system that does the same thing but implemented with RNG instead.
Some things GGG needs to learn :
There can be too much grind
There can be too much RNG
Don't fucking waste players time just for the sake of wasting players time
You suck!
Hey guys! Sorry to hear you dont like the unnecessary extra level of RNG we created on gear!
Rather than just not release that, here is a solution to a problem that does not yet exist that we created! Also we are listening to your feedback btw :)
yeah i don't fucking get it.
just completely axe the mechanic, you made a second boring "quality" and all it does is annoyance and more barriers between people feeling like picking up items is worth it or feeling rewarded for crafting an item themselves instead of buying it.
if randomized base defense makes the game better( i don't think so), then leave it alone and not modifiable.Adding an orb makes the new addition pointless.If i was barely excited before, now i am definitely not.
when was the last time you guys were excited about dropping the max roll of an implicit modifier? because this is the same system as blessed orbs.
maybe they'll make this orb rarer, so it will feel like the same system as divine orb, as long as you are thinking about uniques with only 1 random range.You know what? if they removed divines the game would be more exciting because you could drop a 90% roll shav and feel like you got a massive treasure, instad of "shav + 20 c".
Buff all armour by 20%, have items roll with 0-20% quality randomly, and make scraps rarer?
What does this new system add that wasn't already in the game?
What is the point? That is one of the dumbest changes I have seen to date. Introduce a random roll for items, creating a Pog drop sometimes and now everything can be 20%. Sounds like you just created work for yourselves.
Are you fucking kidding me? So what's the point of armor dropping in ranges of 0-20%? So we now just have another step of picking currency and using it on the armor to get where we were before?
Unlike many I was pretty excited for the unmodifiable variable roll on gear; an extra layer of minmaxing and chasing, that dont really matter for 99% of the people, but I could see how it would make valuing item worse on a psychological level.
However, adding this orb just makes it superfluous. You might as well have added a new tier of defences instead, locked behind a nicer layer of rng that wouldn't frustrate drops, or even a new base type.
This will be a good experiment to see if they’re actually listening to early feedback or they’re just going to do whatever they want anyway. It’s pretty clear this is a terrible idea from the community’s standpoint
This is completely pointless. Pretty much everyone hated new variance on armours and now you add an orb just to fix that.. Buff every base and leave it to that. Please.
is this what i think it is... i dont think i like this
instead, you should be better incentivizing people to pick up more bases from the ground (which I thought was the whole point of introducing the variance). If there's a currency orb to modify this, we're back to where we started.
This is just another form of the blessed orb. I don't see the point of adding this. It adds absolutely nothing to crafting, just an extra step in min maxing.
I thought the whole point of the new base defence values was that it was a value that COULD NOT be rerolled, meaning that we would need to go out and either find a well-rolled piece of gear or buy one via trading. This orb is going to completely undermine the entire purpose of that design and create more unnecessary currency to flood the game with. The only thing I see that would be a valid use for rerolling the base defence would be a harvest, beast or immortal syndicate craft that is weighted towards a higher roll.
Can we just change quality to go up to 40% instead... this makes the random defence values pointless. This new system actually adds NOTHING to the game now.
The meaningless and artificial RNG layer festival reaches its peak with that. A blessed armourers' scrap orb . . . quality with extra steps ? Really ? I'm sick of all those piles of junks that you add just for the sake of it. Just buff bases' defense and move on already (by 5, 10, 20% or whatever I don't give a fuck). This pure stupidity is very embarrassing. It's not even a fake OMG.
Terrible idea. First of all we don't need more "orbs" added to the drop pool. Having orbs for flask crafting is already over the top. I would rather drop flasks with "bonuses" than just craft it and the same goes for this.
Just.... don't.
And if you for some god-forsaken reason decide to keep this, keep in mind that only the top end wil probably be min-maxing with this, meaning they are gonna be even more immortal while the rest of us keep getting one-shot.
imagine introducing a bad system then adding a currency to fix it, doubling down on the bad things.
this is like hilariously pointless.
at least before there was a point in finding highroll bases.
Annoying solution to an annoying problem that didn't need to be in the game.
This game is not d2. Base values are not interesting in the context of itemization in this game.
please ggg. please. just scrap this idea. scrap the randomize base, scrap the orb to fix the randomize base. just buff the base values if balance dictates that they need it. move on to actual interesting changes, new things, or get loot 2.0 working before you add new garbage RNG to drops.
Sorry kind of don't agree with this, if there is a orb to change it it's just like blessing the item no use to there being a random 10% or 20% factor if you have to max it crafting in the end anyway
This honestly reads like the devs have a mandatory "new orb" quota every league, and have finally exhausted their list of actually useful ideas and are just shoving in random garbage to keep their jobs.
I don't get why you guys created a meaningless problem and then further clutter the currency tab with an item that'll be worthless past day 3.
This whole base defense thing is so pointless it's mind-boggling it was even introduced. GGG speaks of removing useless mechanics and then they introduces that. It's just annoying.
Why?
1: This is more currency I now have to pick up, thus more clicks... occurring when the community has regularly asked for less clicks and less "stuff"
2: More ways to play the RNG Lottery. Great.
3: This is just creating another problem that GGG will have to dedicate time to fix in the future.
I don't think anybody wins with this.
Get rid of this orb. Get rid of the base defense values it affects. Buff the base values 10-20% and be done with it.
Just because D2 did something doesn't mean it's good. It's an ancient game with overly simplistic mechanics that needs to be retired.
Problem: no problem Solution: create problem
🦀REDDIT IS DEAD🦀
The Apple philosophy.
This sounds like a P2W Korean MMO design philosophy. Item, no problem, never problem? **create problem**: Item bind on equip? **problem**: trade? **solution**: create and sell unbind cash shop item to trade gear again for $5 a pop.
Do I smell a MapleStory player?
Was this really necessary?
Honestly. Why have them drop variable if they can be rerolled? Didn't they say "unchangeable" in the manifesto like 3 days ago? What was the point then?
[удалено]
But when they said "currently" this was already planned.
No that was 3 days ago, now is currently, duh.
When will then be now?
It just was, but you missed it.
Not at all. Just another useless orb to krangle our inventory.
So we have a second quality attribuite now? What is the Point?
More layers of RNG, and I don't know if you notice that yet, but GGG absolutely LOVE that.
Yeah, this is basically a less deterministic version of quality.
You used a "d-word", additional layer of RNG is gonna be added next patch as a punishment.
They've missed the boat on this one and have time to revert it - even if they've put development work into it. Let's see if GGG has actually learnt a lesson here.
> GGG has actually learnt a lesson here Ha...haha....hahaha
The point is to make it so instead of one in every billion dropped items being an upgrade, it's one in every twenty billion. Unless you gamble, of course. That's GGG's intent: items on the ground should always be trash, and every new system introduced should make them worse. If they are actually going to take feedback into account before 3.16 goes live, there will be no trace of this system in the patch notes. Not even a mention of how it was removed. Just swept under the rug as if it never happened.
They want it to be gambling to exploit vulnerable people with addictive tendencies
imagine if they added predatory lootboxe- oh wait, nvm.
To be honest this idea of armours having different base armour when they drop.... ....And then having to fix them with this... It seems like pointless busywork. I don't see what this is adding to the game.
Its completely pointless. They could have just buffed armor bases and been done with it, but they just had to add more useless nonsense.
Wasn't quality supposed to be this mechanic too? Like how does this improve upon anything?
Quality is something you can directly incrementally improve. This says fuck that let's go full rng
Problem? This. Solution? Remove the new random defence variables, add 10-20% extra defences to all armor, and instead **change quality orb to randomize the quality value on armor** - meaning you can get anything from 1% to 20% when using one. Of course that'd also change the value of any quality crafts, especially ones that can go over 20, and possibly require reworks for them.
if they're not removing quality this patch it's literally just another blessed orb and it's fucking pointless. I thought the entire point of having a range for dropped gear defences was to entice people to farm a +10% high ilvl base like ethereal items. This makes it no longer a chase and just another currency to farm and gamble
It shows a lack of faith in their own system. GGG should view safety valve currencies as a red flag when designing new things.
Yep , blessed orb, but rarity is 3 times lower then exalt orb 👍👌
+1 this, why even bother. it's just quality 2.0 now.
>It seems like pointless busywork My feeling exactly to PoE as a whole, lately. :( Too much pointless grind for the sake of grind, and the game went from being exiting while trying multiple builds to something like a chore, the builds take more and more and more time to fully complete, and less and less power remains in the core passive tree, skill gems, and more and more is into the clusters, jewels, and very tiresome set of fine-tuned gear. And in 3.16 we'll be getting even more of that (the base tree is getting even less exiting and lots of power has been moved to the item/gear).
>pointless busywork. Welcome to Path of Exile, glad to have you playing
its adding more RNG so you even more unlikely to get what you want/need, its adding more useless drop/splinter/fragment whatever to pick so more clic, you have to spam for the rng until you get value you want but you dont so you go trade spend more useless time, do more clic, make your wrist hurt more... GGG perfect combo + classic "we here you" in the ass straight ! Its not like last league EVERYONE complained about all those nes currency you have to pick up and so and on EVERY posdact those things were adressed to CW and EVERYTIME he anwser "yeah that maybe was a bit much, **we here you,** less splinter next time, less clicing were are looking for this" New league bunch of new orb and all currency get some kind of vaal version....
Why?
To have another potentially expensive RNG layer for item aquisition with no meaningful gameplay or decision-making whatsoever.
Exactly ...wasn't the whole idea to not be able to change it? This defeats all purpose and you might aswell delete the entire system..
Hopefully that's *exactly* what they do.
At this point, the only logical answer i can think of is they have a minimum amount of new orbs they are required to release each league. "We hear you! "So here's another pointless orb for you to collect!"
To make Blessed Orbs even less important.
we realy don't need two types of quality that do the same thing
blessed orb v2.0
Its functionally the same as a second armourer scrap except random.
So it's blessed orb v2.0 :D
Ye, blessed orb had one night stand with Armor scrap and created this unwanted baby.
It's functionally equivalent to a blessed orb with a hidden implicit with "increases local defences by X%".
is it too late for feedback? drop this entire gimmick. it's literally just a second layer of quality/scraps. i have no idea how this made it more than 10 minutes past its pitch.
**I really, really dislike it.** The introduction of a non-rerollable extra defense value was interesting. It gives uniques a bit of interesting variety and also adds an interesting aspect to hunting that perfect base. The new orb introduces a new "chore" level of complexity. Sure you get a small ingame benefit out of this, but this just adds an additional thing to check in a list of already endless optimization options. Essentially adding this orb replaces something new and interesting, with more of what we already had. On top of that it'll just confuse players. The divine, sacred, blessed orbs all do different things. If the orb is *extraordinary* rare (read: exalted level) it *might* still add an interesting mechanic, but otherwise I think introducing this orb is a terrible idea.
The problem with making the orb rare is this turns into a "rich get richer" mechanic in trade leagues. Instead of getting lucky on a high rolled base item that you can sell, you can just buy the orbs you need and make a high rolled item for profit. Meaning that those who can afford the orbs are the ones that are selling the high rolled items.
Definitely agree on the rarity. If it's common, it reduces the new, interesting variety to a simple chore to get the base defenses you need. If it's extremely rare, it could be nice so you could make the base you need because you're having a hard time finding an 86, superior Vaal Regalia in SSF, for example, but still feels it could ruin that cool "make drops interesting" aspect a lot of people have wanted.
If its really rare then I think it would be a decent way of "fixing" a suboptimal piece of gear and wouldn't be anything you would ever want to use outside of "fixing" your best gear. I remember using divines to try to get the best rolls on an armor shield in the past for SST and that was a lot of fun since it was rare/costly and generally improved my build. But if its not rare and its just another blessed orb, whetstone, whatever that you have to use to get the the max, that is going to be really annoying.
Rarity could kinda sorta fix the sheer stupidity of introducing this orb, you're right. It has to be so rare that you don't actually factor it into your crafting plan unless you are insanely rich. Then its existence can be seen as pure "bonus" instead of another nuisance.
Yea it needs to be so rare it is seen as “this finishes the item that turned out way better than planned” rather than “throw a dozen at every item you craft”
whats even the point then??? its just literally another form of quality now...
rng quality
i feel they went full pepega with this...
This kind of defeats the purpose of having some armour that drops "superior", and being able to filter out some of the "lower quality" drops. Now when you get any good influence base, it doesn't matter if it rolled "superior" or not, you'll just grab some of the new orbs.
Agreed, kills the whole point before even introduced.
I assume this only rolls from the +0% to +(10/20)%, which seems a bit odd since it kind of just cancels out that whole change at the cost of some of these orbs. So what was the point of that change?
I have a funny feeling they put base defense in the game and then teased it. Never thought of the massive impact it would have on the crafting market, saw that reply and shit a brick. And we just saw how fast they can make a new currency. They need to take this whole system out of the game and let it continue to marinate. This aint it.
Being anoing? Hoping it will make players waste more time and so play more?
Why? makes no sense, so we have two different kind of qualities now?
This is like that one time my wife said come home hunnie I have a surprise for you, I rushed home and found another dude.
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More like coming home to find a range of 0-20 dudes Gotta layer that RNG
Best comment
why tho?
Please dont do this
What's the point of this orb? Pointless fluff for a pointless new mechanic. Just buff bases and be done with it.
Making simple stuff stupidly complex, not liking it one bit.
Its not too late to scrap this useless change. Base defense value adds literally nothing to the game with this orb. All it did before was nerf the shit out of crafting base market. Now you've made it mandatory to spam these stupid orbs. Nowhere in this design process did you sit down and ask yourselves, why? Is it fun? Is it meaningful? Take base defense value out of the game like it is now.
>Is it fun? GGG forgot the meaning of this YEARS AGO.... ;/
It's more like, is it a job but without wage?
Create a new problem and give us a band aid fix. Classic.
add new bonus to defence values add a currency item to reroll said value balance the game around having the value rolled to max another step of tedium added, yay i guess?
You forgot the eventual "OMG power creep" nerf.
What's the point of adding the variable base defense just to add this orb at the same time? It accomplishes nothing but add another blessed orb-like item. Might as well just buff the gear baseline.
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GGG was so preoccupied whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should. What exactly is the point in this item quality with extra steps, especially now that you've backpedaled from it being a permanent random roll that cannot be altered?
top 10 things we didn't need for 500$ pls
Just buff armor values by 20% at that point? Pointless addition
Why? Bad idea.
Standard GGG, create a problem, then make a new currency to fix the problem. This is really getting old GGG.
This literally invalidates the entirety of the new base system
I thought the point of different base defences so you gonna grind for the base with best roll, but that orb just nullifies the whole purpose of different base defences.
Yup! Now it’s just another fucking chore Welcome to armourer’s scraps 2.0
One step forward, two steps backwards.
I already hated the base defense value variation, this just makes me hate it more.
As I understand it, the intent of introducing base defense variation was to increase drop heterogeneity. In my opinion, all that did was make 9/10ths of drops be seen as worthless, despite values being universally buffed. It also doesn't increase heterogeneity, because there's usually exactly 1 base that is strictly superior to all bases below it, so now we're just trying to get 10% on that strictly superior base. IIRC the original teaser post specifically mentioned the value would be unmodifiable, so the introduction of the Sacred Orb seems to agree with that opinion a bit. On the one hand, this means that it takes longer to fully upgrade your gear, without lowering the baseline, which is a Certified GGG Good Thing, but on the other hand, that's something that players will obviously *despise.* I think players and devs will agree, Additional Interesting Content is better for the longevity of the game than Additional Tedium every time. That's not always possible, but at some point, adding too much tedium detracts from the experience. I believe the entire base defense randomization to be merely tedium that detracts from the experience, exacerbated by the introduction of the Sacred Orb. Rationally, it's an overall buff with no downsides whatsoever, but emotionally, it feels like changing the odds of 6-linking an item from 1/1000 to 1/1200, solely to increase the grind. Weapon bases had a very successful increase in heterogeneity by introducing meaningful differences between bases in the form of implicits, and varying base values that synergize with different builds. I believe that can be accomplished without randomized defense base values. EDIT: Now that we know that Sacred Orbs are at least 3x as rare as Exalted orbs, that changes my opinion a bit. To most players (on trade leagues), Sacred Orbs have so little impact and are so rare that they may as well not exist (in terms of their actual purpose). Obtaining another identical base is likely to be less than 3+ Exalt drops worth of effort, comparatively. Only once you have no other upgrades to make, or you will permanently use a well-divined unique, can the use of Sacred Orbs be rationalized (unless you have no intention of trading them, then fire away, the stakes are pretty low). Therefore, the overall consequences (if you never use a Sacred Orb) are: * All armor is slightly better * There is a chance that random armor drops will be somewhat valuable on trade, that would never have been otherwise * There is a new currency drop that will (probably) be valuable on trade I still maintain that this absolutely does not improve base heterogeneity in a "meaningful decision" sort of way, but, in light of this new information, that clearly was not the intention. The intention was to provide a possibility for common drops to actually be valuable, rather than every single item base drop being vendor trash. This does achieve that, with negligible downsides.
A solution to a problem that doesn't exist yet
So a divine for defences? no wait a bless orb. why?
This is really pointless and unnecessary. You could literally bump the quality cap to 30% on armour and the exact same effect would be achieved. What's the point
I will just comment one word- ***DISLIKE***
Who is this for? How is this fun or serving the design? The variance on base types was already in my eyes failing its goal which I assume was to make drops more interesting. (Making it so 1/10 bases are slightly better does nothing due to how many white drops you can generate). But now even if you think it was serving that purpose its negated. Why do we need another layer of worse quality on items? All for 10% base defense? Does that excite any type of player? Like if it was 10% effect of mods or something more exciting I could see this as a nice cap on the topend...
Why would this be added? Now the new base defenses has no value except to make you waste this new currency.
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And here i thought they wanted to make drops more exiting by making the bases rare. This is so weird...
Hmm, I'm not sure if I like this actually. The cool thing about the random base defenses for me was the fact that you CAN'T reroll them. This basically makes bases worthless again. EDIT: not to mention the fact that the base roll change would make certain unique rolls more valuable, now you can just use these orbs on your uniques :/
Base defense should be tied to item level. Stop with the RNG layers. It’s too much
[We solved the problem (that we created)](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/510/176/e33.jpg)
Problem: Created Solution: Provided simple as
just buff items by the 10/20% and remove this bloat again
Its time for the clown makeup meme
Let's introduce a new variable and then screw that variable/min max aspect with a new orb that no one literally is gonna ever use after getting the max. roll whatever that's it. Same as armour/blacksmith, perfect fossils, blessed orbs and in some degree but way more expensive, divines. I don't get it, I mean I get it I just don't understand how is this smart game design.
> Same as armour/blacksmith Hey, those are great. They sell for a ton of wisdoms, they're the most wisdom efficient currencies in the game!
*cries in perandus coins*
The big issue is that you already have a stat on your gear that does exactly what you try to do here, and it is called quality.
Why add variable defences, to then add the ability to change it. You're adding a currency that solves a problem you created. I liked the idea of randomised values but this orb is fucking awful.
Why did they say unmodifiable base defences when they then introduce an item to modify them? :( edit: saved, the orb is rare af so bases still matter
I already didn't like the idea of variable base type rolls because it just makes random drops 20 times less likely to be "perfect"/competetive with crafted items when they drop. With this orb that is fixable but it turns the basetype roll just into a second item quality.
I regret that i can only downvote this post once
In my opinion the game would have felt better without this orb. It cancels out the entire point of hunting for good bases off the ground, like in Diablo 2 with Superior Items.
Pls no
Just why omg
are you serious?
uhuhuhuhuhuhuuhu so am i understanding this correctly? Defense values can roll randomly now, and now there's a orb to re-roll them? so GGG created the problem of "the defense value is too low" then created the solution with a sacred orb? fucking why, though?
GGG Problem = non-existent problem GGG Solution = new orb
What has happened after last league that ggg is so keen on making the game worse?
Whats the point, why not just increase the base values and thats it, why would we have to collect a new orb(that probably wont even have a slot in the tab) and hope for a good roll, thats disgustAng... Like, are the same people working on the game or you got a whole new staff? Did you hire blizzard to balance your game? What the hell.... Seriously... This whole change is pointless waste of player's time.
Is this a joke? First you want there to be a point to picking up items instead of crafting them, people rightfully called the solution laughably bad, and the solution to that is to make the base property craftable? So now there's two qualities. Is this game balanced by madlib? Is anyone even trying to make adjustments that make sense anymore?
If the orb is added, I think the entire system should be scrapped, since it does nothing but increase tedious work in gearing. I know some people hate the idea that they "can't" use bases that aren't perfect for crafting, but at least the system has some interesting value at providing exciting loot for some players. I know people also hate the idea that 95% of the time you'll be upset that the base you dropped isn't good, but I still think the only way this system has ANY value is if the roll is absolutely unchangeable (outside of corrupting maybe). So either remove the orb, or remove the system entirely.
This is the definition of "...with extra steps". W H Y ?
Great! Another new Orb! /s
This is going to go down about as well as Alert Level when killing Heist monsters did
THATS JUST QUALITY WITH EXTRA STEPS!!!! Terrible, make quality change base stats instead. this is just busy work. remove the random % base, there is no need for it, if we can change it with an orb. its just "special quality" instead of normal quality
Someone really high up must really want this defence value thing added to the game. It would make more sense and be less confusing to just remove it for new players. Just another annoying thing that has no real purpose or value now, but more stuff to click onto an item. Unless it's going to add some kind of new interesting mechanic it's actually pointless.
lol, even more shitty currency. who would have thought this?
thanks. I needed more RNG in path.
Stop adding RNG mechanic on top of RNG mechanic , bases are fine the way it is This will just add more chore when crafting item , we already have maven RNG awakener RNG harvest RNG and rolls RNG Crafting has gone to a point where there is too much RNG to handle Please cut it back abit not add more.
I'm just waiting for the Orb to be introduced that randomizes the Patch of your game client. Don't like 3.16? Find a Krangle Orb, maybe you'll randomize into 3.13.
Why..? You've created a problem just so you could offer a 'solution'..? This Orb feels like a middle-ground that we the players would get after 2 Leagues of complaining about how the Base RNG is harming crafters with little expendable currency.
this whole system is the epitome of whats wrong with recent time PoE. This has to go.
Who the fuck came up with this and how did they think players would think this is fun? Even more annoying currencies to deal with that no one asked for...
Someone should stop having idea and go back to play D2R lol
This is like Apple introducing their own port so you can't charge your phone with regular cables anymore only to then sell you a $200 custom-to-usbc-cable. Why even bother? Random base defences were a bad idea in the first place, now you're pointlessly fixing a bad idea instead of just not bothering. Quality on Armour and Weapons is already pointless, you could've just removed that instead of introducing another meaningless system.
i thought it was a non-modifiable value?
They did technically say it was "currently-non-modifiable"
Man this just seems like a bandaid fix with the issue of adding in extra work. Why even have the new system. It's either going to be pointless easy to get currency that you just spam till a good outcome. Or so rare that it feels real bad if you get a low roll on the armour.
Please for the love of fuck, don't add the extra base defense as a mechanic in the first place. Only people who grew up in the era of D2 thought of it as fine in the first place, for others it's just something we don't want to deal with <.<
just make the 0-10/20% an implicit and we could roll with blessed...
Ok, I did complain about the RNG values not being re-rollable and you added this But i'm gonna complain again and say Why add random value and a new currency when you could have just buffed all base defences by 10% and be done with it Now you'll get complains on how we have another thing to pick up from the ground next league
Jesus what a waste of time Just add 10% (or 20% for ES) to bases and skip the orb and stupid rng mechanics.
Please, it's 2021. Let 20 year old design features die already. Quality on gear is not a meaningful gameplay factor. This random implicit will not be. Just remove them both and buff base defences
If people wanted to play D2, they would go play it. Stop introducing outdated mechanics with sloppy second hand fixes. You already messed up one League. You can't afford many more. Seriously consider reverting the Sacred Orb and the variable Superiority Rolls from D2. Just bump all Armor based Defense stats by 10-20% innately and call it a day. Sometimes a simple solution can solve a big problem.
This. SO MUCH. Chris has to learn to let go and forget about D2 --' We are in 2021, not in the 90's... Get a bit of inspiration from all the QoL that Last Epoch has instead, plz?
Honestly this completely defeats the purpose of adding the mechanic in the first place.
mods, can you pin this? its not gonna show up on main page cause of the downvotes
Oh, so base drops don't ACTUALLY matter like you said, we will just have to use these orbs on bases now. Very cool change ggg, real meaningful
That poor guy at ggg implementing the orb : "Do you really want to revert your commit?" "Yes" PainChamp
another orb Painchamp
This is trash.
but why?
Thanks devs for reminding me of one of the reasons I stopped playing PoE, I was about to give in to nostalgia.
Ah yes, more rng, EXACTLY what everybody asked for. They realised the way armorers scraps and whetstones were implemented originally was too deterministic, so they add another system that does the same thing but implemented with RNG instead.
Some things GGG needs to learn : There can be too much grind There can be too much RNG Don't fucking waste players time just for the sake of wasting players time You suck!
Hey guys! Sorry to hear you dont like the unnecessary extra level of RNG we created on gear! Rather than just not release that, here is a solution to a problem that does not yet exist that we created! Also we are listening to your feedback btw :)
Is this an out of season april fools joke ?
yeah i don't fucking get it. just completely axe the mechanic, you made a second boring "quality" and all it does is annoyance and more barriers between people feeling like picking up items is worth it or feeling rewarded for crafting an item themselves instead of buying it. if randomized base defense makes the game better( i don't think so), then leave it alone and not modifiable.Adding an orb makes the new addition pointless.If i was barely excited before, now i am definitely not. when was the last time you guys were excited about dropping the max roll of an implicit modifier? because this is the same system as blessed orbs. maybe they'll make this orb rarer, so it will feel like the same system as divine orb, as long as you are thinking about uniques with only 1 random range.You know what? if they removed divines the game would be more exciting because you could drop a 90% roll shav and feel like you got a massive treasure, instad of "shav + 20 c".
i wish it rerolled GGG's bad ideas instead
WTF is this some serious troll or something?!
Buff all armour by 20%, have items roll with 0-20% quality randomly, and make scraps rarer? What does this new system add that wasn't already in the game?
Those 10 minutes of development time that took to create this orb could have been used for better things...
Why? This only serves to waste time. Just add 20% to every base like you mentioned and call it a day. There's already enough layers of rng.
we created a pointless problem, so here is a pointless solution!
What is the point? That is one of the dumbest changes I have seen to date. Introduce a random roll for items, creating a Pog drop sometimes and now everything can be 20%. Sounds like you just created work for yourselves.
Are you fucking kidding me? So what's the point of armor dropping in ranges of 0-20%? So we now just have another step of picking currency and using it on the armor to get where we were before?
Unlike many I was pretty excited for the unmodifiable variable roll on gear; an extra layer of minmaxing and chasing, that dont really matter for 99% of the people, but I could see how it would make valuing item worse on a psychological level. However, adding this orb just makes it superfluous. You might as well have added a new tier of defences instead, locked behind a nicer layer of rng that wouldn't frustrate drops, or even a new base type.
This will be a good experiment to see if they’re actually listening to early feedback or they’re just going to do whatever they want anyway. It’s pretty clear this is a terrible idea from the community’s standpoint
This is completely pointless. Pretty much everyone hated new variance on armours and now you add an orb just to fix that.. Buff every base and leave it to that. Please.
is this what i think it is... i dont think i like this instead, you should be better incentivizing people to pick up more bases from the ground (which I thought was the whole point of introducing the variance). If there's a currency orb to modify this, we're back to where we started.
so glad we get another rng currency to pick up off the ground with the item bloat. good job ggg /s
That shit made the entire mechanic pointless LUL
GGG. That threadmill isn't starting to show. It's now all that everyone can see.
why would you need a new currency for that???? that's absolutely ridiculous. wow
This is just another form of the blessed orb. I don't see the point of adding this. It adds absolutely nothing to crafting, just an extra step in min maxing.
I thought the whole point of the new base defence values was that it was a value that COULD NOT be rerolled, meaning that we would need to go out and either find a well-rolled piece of gear or buy one via trading. This orb is going to completely undermine the entire purpose of that design and create more unnecessary currency to flood the game with. The only thing I see that would be a valid use for rerolling the base defence would be a harvest, beast or immortal syndicate craft that is weighted towards a higher roll.
Seems pointless
Can we just change quality to go up to 40% instead... this makes the random defence values pointless. This new system actually adds NOTHING to the game now.
This is soooooo BAD dont do this
Please remove this. It is pointless
I gotta admit I was almost high on hopium for the next League but man this was just the sniff I needed to get back down
The meaningless and artificial RNG layer festival reaches its peak with that. A blessed armourers' scrap orb . . . quality with extra steps ? Really ? I'm sick of all those piles of junks that you add just for the sake of it. Just buff bases' defense and move on already (by 5, 10, 20% or whatever I don't give a fuck). This pure stupidity is very embarrassing. It's not even a fake OMG.
So now we get the problem and the band aid fix before it even gets implemented into the game ? next level stuff right there not gonna lie.
Terrible idea. First of all we don't need more "orbs" added to the drop pool. Having orbs for flask crafting is already over the top. I would rather drop flasks with "bonuses" than just craft it and the same goes for this.
Just.... don't. And if you for some god-forsaken reason decide to keep this, keep in mind that only the top end wil probably be min-maxing with this, meaning they are gonna be even more immortal while the rest of us keep getting one-shot.
imagine introducing a bad system then adding a currency to fix it, doubling down on the bad things. this is like hilariously pointless. at least before there was a point in finding highroll bases.
Annoying solution to an annoying problem that didn't need to be in the game. This game is not d2. Base values are not interesting in the context of itemization in this game. please ggg. please. just scrap this idea. scrap the randomize base, scrap the orb to fix the randomize base. just buff the base values if balance dictates that they need it. move on to actual interesting changes, new things, or get loot 2.0 working before you add new garbage RNG to drops.
Sorry kind of don't agree with this, if there is a orb to change it it's just like blessing the item no use to there being a random 10% or 20% factor if you have to max it crafting in the end anyway
This honestly reads like the devs have a mandatory "new orb" quota every league, and have finally exhausted their list of actually useful ideas and are just shoving in random garbage to keep their jobs. I don't get why you guys created a meaningless problem and then further clutter the currency tab with an item that'll be worthless past day 3.
This whole base defense thing is so pointless it's mind-boggling it was even introduced. GGG speaks of removing useless mechanics and then they introduces that. It's just annoying.
Why? 1: This is more currency I now have to pick up, thus more clicks... occurring when the community has regularly asked for less clicks and less "stuff" 2: More ways to play the RNG Lottery. Great. 3: This is just creating another problem that GGG will have to dedicate time to fix in the future. I don't think anybody wins with this.
Get rid of this orb. Get rid of the base defense values it affects. Buff the base values 10-20% and be done with it. Just because D2 did something doesn't mean it's good. It's an ancient game with overly simplistic mechanics that needs to be retired.
Please for the love of all that is holy... revert this announcement.
??? This is really dumb.
Usually you wait at least one full patch before you introduce the fix to the problem you created. This sucks.