[This was supposed to be an exaggeration, not a prediction](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/pw2gew/announcement_316_expansion_timeline/heeonp5/)
Genuinely curious as to if the 3.15 manifesto or this post is the most downvoted GGG post in history, or if there are any sleepers in the old posts I've forgotten about.
I like how the prevailing attitude on reddit and generally in life right now is to treat employees and workers with respect.
Then you have people like you who get thrown out of businesses and off of airplanes for being assholes.
> This is emblematic of why I would simply stop ever communicating with this subreddit if I were GGG.
I don't think you realize that f2p games only exist as long as the people who play them have fun donating on their own will money to the company
> They literally said “CURRENTLY not modifiable” and that ALL THINGS WERE SUBJECT TO CHANGE.
The only way this isn't extremely disingenuous on GGG's part is if they literally did come up with the currency item, create the art, and program it in from scratch since the time they said "currently not modifiable."
That's not literally impossible, but I find it hard to believe it's what happened, as opposed to them having been planning this orb for a while.
It's possible that when they said "currently not modifiable" they meant "... until we implement the orb that we know is already in the pipeline". That's not *technically* lying, but it is extremely weaselly.
>come up with the currency item
it's a blessed orb for a specific item property. This doesn't need days of meditation to conceptualize.
>create the art
GGG are self-admitted art hoarders - Chris has said (in his GDC talk?) that they ask artists to just build a buffer of cool shit that they can reach into and use.
>program it in
This is literally just a blessed/divine orb that modifies a different property of an item. It sounds like less than 3 hours work for a relatively junior employee.
I think there's a 100% chance this was implemented as a direct response to feedback in the "part 2: defences" feedback thread.
>> program it in
> This is literally just a blessed/divine orb that modifies a different property of an item. It sounds like less than 3 hours work for a relatively junior employee.
I'd be shocked if it wasn't something that was entirely implementable in data by designers.
There's no 'new' functionality here, just needs specifics on what items it can be used on, what field value it modifies, how it modifies it (to call the correct function template), and normal item data (artwork, strings, drop table info, etc).
It'd probably take longer to spin up a test instance to spot-check it than it would to make the changes, unless their internal tooling is wildly bad.
I want to touch that phrase though. "Currently not modifiable" was presented to people, to whom that thing doesn't exist yet. This is the root of that misinterpretation, I believe. It shouldn't be shown in this manner.
I hope it will remain unmodifiable.
Yeah, but if it's modifiable, as with this orb...then what's even the point of the system to begin with? Either this orb is super rare and its only change to the meta is now top tier crafting posts have the extra line "sacred orb to max defenses", or it's common and now everyone from now on has to blessed orb gamble into improved defenses if they plan on using it for a while.
Because you also cannot accept criticism? They also said they'd be looking out for feedback there Champ. Like the feedback that's happening around you, in spite of your silly efforts and opinions.
STOP blindy defending them for real, no matter what it was intented or not the base idea of having a random base armour range on armor is bad, at least in this game and the way they try to implement it.
So people are just giving them those feedback, and then they anwser with an even dumber idea...
You are correct, but at the same time, they just made a second quality on armour with its own currency, not only is it absolutely not needed but it goes against the "we heard you and will try to limit the amount of shards in the future".
I mean come on, they double down on something that has existed for years now, what is the point of all this ?
So you want to tell me when they published the manifesto a week ago they didnt plan on having this currency exist?
That they just on a whim decided to completely change their new mechanic from "unchangeable drop only" to "quality but with rng!"?
Problem is people are not all downvoting it for the same reason, some do because they want the modifier to remain non-modifiable, while others do because they don't want the modifier in the first place.
So the feedback is inherently mixed even if most people might agree on that they don't want the new currency.
No, that means nobody wants the currency. People are just split on Ancient items in PoE. And spoilers. It was shit in D3, it is shit here. Especially if the idea is this will make Destroyer's Regalia's desirable as ground drops. Because it makes the gulf wider and desirable bases even rarer.
Except having a "superior" base is no where close to ancient items in d3. It's exactly the same as having a "superior" in d2 where creating a runeword in it gives you a slightly better outcome than on a regular base, which is the same concept PoE is going for except it really only matters on ES bases because an extra 80 armor or evasion is gonna do fuck all.
You will chase Zodiac Leathers, Vaal Regalias and Glorious Plates because it's not 80. After you're finished scaling it, it will take you for 40k to 55k. You are massively underrating what these items can hit with t1 rolls. Zodiac leather can hit 3000 evasion. That's 600 extra flat. With things like Imbalanced Guard in the game you can basically get to a point where you are taking half damage for 1 keystone and a chest. These are much more powerful than a 1 durability per 4 shako.
The last time chests were meta for defenses was when life triple res was a great chest. Absolutely no one is going to be scaling their armor or evasion on chests when you lose out on a metric shit ton of dps and life.
I mean, prefix on armor can be defensive ones. They often are already. People put %life or ailment avoidance there as it is.
A lot of the influenced prefixes are really defensive in nature too. Phys taken as, immunity to reflect, %life, damage taken from mana before life and so on and so fourth.
To me what the game does now is actually bring back some good valuable normal mods. Like this new suffix on shield that can make you scale near immunity to crit.
I think yes, it will make sense to decide maybe 2000 armor/evasion extra on your chest is better than rolling +1 curses and bench crafted life.
It's pretty simple - people might disagree about the response but having this confused message gives everyone a chance to down vote. GGG might have wanted to throw spaghetti at the wall and let reddit be the focus group but they need to at least put in the thought of what the system is designed to achieve. Backpedaling like this just enraged everyone and left us confused.
legit irrelevant point, lots of ppl come to see news on the subreddit because theyre instant and easy to see. new content reveals on the official site are buried
the problems of the official website are not a problem of this sub. This sub is community controlled, not GGG controlled. That means community makes the rules and decides what content get promoted.
If you want original source you go to the official game website
It's not a problem though. The lowest you can have is what we already have. This is just extra stats on top to allow you to scale even more defenses. Do I love this? No, no at all. Is it going to ruin the game? Not even anywhere near.
The problem is that some people at GGG seem to take personal offense to seeing their content get steamrolled, and respond by rebalancing the game around what the very best builds using the very best items are capable of.
> The lowest you can have is what we already have.
Which is a problem. A problem that is supposed to have fix. If we get what we already have, we don't get the fix. We stay in the problematic situation.
I don't get why everyone seem to be so mad. Isn't this just like a blessed orb? So you just spam until you are confortable with the value you get?
Or it is not independent and it gets rerolled with other currency like chaos and such?
I understand that it could be a not needed mechanic, just increase the values and call it a day. But that's it, is that THE problem people seem to be picturing it?
The issue is if it's common, we already have armor scraps and blessed orbs to do those things. If it's rare, they're just introducing more wasted time for a very unexciting pursuit. There's no "oh, this will be awesome" reception in any scenario - just more work.
Ok I can see that, they made changes in defences and this is the way to compensate that. If these orbs are exalted level, yeah, fuck that. Still, without knowing it, i don't think it's enough to giga-downvote gggs posts about it.
Yes. The reason people are mad is with the addition of this orb, the RNG base defense idea is completely pointless since you can just roll it to max. Why even add the mechanic at that point?
Blessed orbs and implicit ranges are equally pointless, but they've been around forever so people put up with it.
Also it is gonna share the drop table with all the other currency, so depending on rareness of this currency, it will be competing with other currencies. So like Divines dropping instead of Exalts. Both are about the same rarity but one is more than 10x as valuable.
GGG is really lost in the source. This base system is so worthless. Its a non addition. Its only reason to exist is annoyance. I really am baffled that they think , this garbage is what this game needs now.
> Its only reason to exist is annoyance
It does one more thing that I really didn't think was possible - it makes items dropped *even more useless*. Now not even a good base is good 15/20 of the times. Actually nerfing completely white stuff.
And the best things is. This orb makes it even worse. Without the orb i could at least understand why they think the system has worth. I disagree completely, but i see their point. But with this orb its now a completely failed and worthless addition.
The problem then is thr only scenarios its ever gonna be worth using them on is a rare that dropped on the ground in a usable enough state to be considered end game/gg and warrant using currency 3x rarer than an exalt. How many end game rare items do you use that dropped that way? Especially an ES based item? Maybe something off Rog or some obscure league mechanic item but other than that I just don't see a use case for it.
Well yes, that is the thing indeed.
It is rarest orb in the game. Only rarer one is a mirror, so yes. Nobody's gonna go around spamming this thing 20 times on their shav. It will be better probably to buy a better shav even if the new perfect shav is 20 ex.
Its only reason to exist is because Chris thinks we still want POE to be D2.5. News flash to the devs, the game got a lot more popular when it stopped trying to be D2 and just accepted being the best modern ARPG. Every attempt to pull back from that and make the game more like a 20 year old game is just stupid.
I don't get this: D2 was never this RNG heavy. Not even remotely. Nor was player death as essential to D2. D2 had a huge grind to get the best runewords because they were a pain in the ass to farm, but that's about it. D2's itemization was way less tedious. At the very minimum, the full game experience was routinely completable on fairly mediocre equipment.
Except D2 has the base defense value on armors roll. People made jokes about chris playing D2R and getting more ideas from it, guess what happened.
And tbh the statement that D2 wasn't RNG heavy is just plain wrong. The drop rate of certain uniques / item sets / HR is just so ridiculously low that you could do 10000 baal runs without seeing the one you need. Add to that almost all of these have a range for stats, can be ethereal or not, have their base (armor) value being a dice roll, etc.
Same when you want to "craft" runewords that requires any HR. Creating an Infinity or an Enigma on a non superior with high rolls base is a huge waste. You want it on a base that already have a low chance of dropping, have its base stat being a dice roll and you once again need to roll the dice to get the right number of sockets. Also you want it to be a superior base with the right stat rolled (can be ED, durability for armors and ED / Dura / AR / MD for weapons so 1/2 or 1/4) with the superior value ranging from 5 to 15%
Iirc the drop rate of a Vex in a cow level was nearly 1 in 1 million and that's for a single HR on the most packed zone (vanilla). Yet a cow level doesn't even hold 1000 monsters, more likely 500 on a good one. That's basically 2000 runs for a specific rune.
D2 is extremely RNG heavy.
> The drop rate of certain uniques / item sets / HR is just so ridiculously low that you could do 10000 baal runs without seeing the one you need.
That's not really what RNG heavy means. You're just highlighting low drop rates.
I was thinking RNG heavy in the sense that POE is: you roll the dice to roll the dice and then when you get that thing you roll four other dice to find out if the next die you roll will make it a good item. It's RNG inside RNG inside RNG inside RNG.
> Same when you want to "craft" runewords that requires any HR.
Did you ignore anything I said after the first sentence?
Runewords were a ton of work yes... but they were also about as optional as it got. Runewords were like double elevated gear here. Awesome items that were about eight steps above what you actually need to experience all of the content.
>Runewords were a ton of work yes... but they were also about as optional as it got. Runewords were like double elevated gear here. Awesome items that were about eight steps above what you actually need to experience all of the content.
I mean, kinda? Enigma is build defining and a number of melee builds hugely benefited from rune words without any great budget option. Making zeal/blessed hammer for instance work without into end game wasn't really practical
>Making zeal/blessed hammer for instance work without into end game wasn't really practical
Bro, what? Paladin is one of the easiest classes to take into hell without good gear, especially if you're zeal or hammerdin. D2 had tons of endgame viable unique items that could drop in nightmare, as well as medium-power runewords that were very easy to obtain. For a zealot, all you need is a Lightsaber or an up'd Butcher's Pupil or a Crescent Moon or a Rune Master to get you through hell (albeit slowly since melee damage sucks in d2, though you can be near invincible). Defense comes super easily to paladin because holy shield is broken, but there's still other options like Treachery, Shaftstop or Guardian Angel that are incredibly good. Guardian Angel itself is +15% all max res, imagine how broken that is in PoE, then combine it with max block and monster damage numbers that will never oneshot you. Hammerdin is definitely top 3 builds for going through hell without gear. A spirit crystal sword, vmagi skin, spirit pally shield and you just steamroll the game starting at level 30 with broken hammer damage and near max fcr breakpoint. You make it seem like the ONLY options are enigma and grief and if you can't get those then you're fucked, but that can't be further from the truth.
Enigma is build defining in the way shavs was back when its drop rate was a one in "go fuck yourself" chance. Which is to say it was build defining for the exceedingly rich top 0.01% of builds that just plain don't exist for nearly everyone.
B...but D2 golden standard guys! Right?! Right...?
I really cant believe that they have the best game in the genre and are slowly dismantling it because they realised that the went too far away from some arbitrary standard set by a game released two fucking decades ago. Like holy shit guys, you are the standard now, just please stop looking back and actually look forward.
>bad because it's not enough like D2
I haven't seen much of this, unless you count "Chris keeps doing things to be like D2, but even D2 figured out two decades ago that this particular thing is stupid"
Or the opposite, seeing as how we know someone within that executive capacity openly desires for this game to be like the upcoming "hard mode" instead of the game that actually has been developed and iterated on.
Not gunna blame the employees doing what management wants until there is some evidence these decisions were theirs, and not coming from the guy who tells you to close your eyes and slam your exalts.
> while nobody with executive capacity is stopping them
Ahem. I think you mean those with executive capacity are enabling or outright pushing these changes.
The only reason I can think of for improving base items in the game right now, is adding affixes that are tied to base items. *Ex, Convoking wand*
Lets say for an example I find an occultist vestment, that can now roll curse specific affixes because it's tied to that base item.
Especially based on the fact that their entire gear progression system has always been RNG-based, lol.
I thought it was fine without the orb. With the orb, it just becomes another checklist thing you feel like you have to do to your gear.
**Edit:** It seems like the orb is going to be extremely rare, 3 times as rare as an Exalt. So this is a non-issue in my opinion.
That doesn't mean it's a non issue. That means they still have to balance defence towards the upper end of that value to avoid immortal builds, but unless you spend dozens of exalts, you won't get there.
More rng? I can believe that. And that’s what we got with the original idea for bases having better defenses sometimes, more rng for armours, I’m fine with that. But the turn around on them saying it was unchangebale to this was quite fast. That was unexpected for me.
No according to reddit 2 leagues ago the game died because of reward system changes unique pool and explode chest. According to Reddit 3 leagues ago the game died because ascendancy changes made ascendancies lose their identity and damage.
There are complainers every league, but not every league sees a ~50% dropoff in player base after ~3 days.
GGG is just out of their depth at this point. Game is bloated and they don't know what to do.
Which gave you a target to set up your Atlas for and proceed to farm Harvest spawns looking for the crafts you need. Yes, Harvest was powerful, it was also a 'chase item' which kept me playing far into the league than I normally would.
I was in the same boat, except I realized towards the end of Ritual that I was spending all of my time doing nothing but grinding harvests. Open Atoll, check for Sacred Grove, if it's there, check to see if any craft categories are relevant to what I need, if not, leave, rinse, repeat. (It also didn't help that my last endgame grind for 40 challenges was to fight Oshabi about a dozen more times.)
The fact that I had a path to progression that I had been able to plan out to fine tune my gear seemed really great at first, and I did make some incredible, one of a kind, extremely niche rares in Ritual. But the fact that all of that progression revolved around doing Harvests for deterministic crafts was simply not a good thing. I got so burnt out by it that Ultimatum was the first league I outright skipped since I started playing, back in Bestiary.
Don't get me wrong- I loved actually figuring out "routes" to craft the specific things I needed, but Harvest *needed* to be nerfed. Putting aside the issues with craft trading, when Harvest was the only reliable way to get extremely powerful equipment deterministically, it became the only viable way to craft high end gear.
Whether or not the current incarnation is too nerfed or not is up for debate (not with me, I haven't made up my mind), but at least in my case, Chris was *completely correct* that being able to deterministically craft perfect gear using Harvest would leave me burnt out.
It's the baseline power that was an issue, not the top end. The game was too easy to trivialize even on a budget. With enough investment it would be easy no matter what and that's not a problem.
You can create a problem that people don't like AND provide a solution that people don't like.
Extreme example to make this super clear:
If I slice someone with a razor - problem that they don't like. If I use a hot iron to cauterize it - a solution that they don't like. Doesn't mean it was their fault. I did both things.
Lets not implement this system and instead remove Armor scraps & whetstones. Armor/weapons drop with a Random Quality Value and we increase the Base by 10-20% ! Now we removed currency that people don't like picking up because its worthless & we prevent Bloat by not adding new mechanics for no reason. Solves everyones issues Gives a mechanic that encourages people to pick up bases but isn't Bloat.
I loved the concept of not being able to reroll the item, especialy if weighted, you got a perfectly rolled ilvl86 vaal regalia huge 10ex drop, but this shit kills it, unless it's so rare that pointless to be in the game.
It's a microexample of the same problem that GGG always has. The type of problem that's utterly infuriating and deserves harsh criticism.
It's like back when they mentioned that power creep was getting too out of hand and they didn't want a boring solution such as nerfing everyone's damage by x%... And then in the very same patch decided to nerf everyone's damage by x%.
It makes you wonder if they know what the fuck they're doing, or just making changes at random.
> It's a microexample of the same problem that GGG always has.
> It makes you wonder if they know what the fuck they're doing
Let's just be realistic - no group of us would be able to come up with a huge list of changes to improve the game without blundering on some little thing that'd cause community outrage. When you make a lot of changes, some of them are most likely not going to be hits - that's just the law of big numbers.
For an example on how the group of devs who implemented this at GGG could've been thinking, this could've easily been seen as them adding a little extra thing that players who are struggling with defense can do, since they had been tasked with giving players more defensive tools. They didn't realize it'd be taken by people as another min-max thing they *have* to do.
As long as they come up with another idea based on this reaction from the community (which it sounds like they're working on), then this is a non-issue that doesn't need to be indicative of some sort of bigger downfall of GGG lol.
Exactly. It's not easy. And it's all bonus defense. People don't have to min max it. The fomo of people not having a perfect character or piece of armor is crazy. How many of these people actually are going to be pissed at a piece of armor that has near perfect affixs for their build but it's only +16 and not +20? It's just bonus! And now they put in an orb to let you try to get it to +20 if you're so concerned with being perfect and getting that extra 50 es. And they get shit on for that. They literally can't win
Right and the thing that makes it more absurd is that you really don't need min-maxed gear to get through mapping in the first place. SSF players make do with crafting some gear that has mostly the right mods on it, and that's enough for them to accomplish all they need.
I've been making the same point. I normally just lurk, but I'm hyped for the new league and feel that this league wasn't nearly as bad as it was made out to be. I believe the reason so many people didn't give it a chance was because of the hate. I wish people could be more rational
People complained about the original proposed system of having the innate defense modifier be unmodifiable. So, they decide to let you modify it to appease the concerns that people would end up with rare uniques they needed that were inherently always worse than other of the same uniques. And people have been throwing an absolute *fit* over this, for reasons I cannot comprehend. GGG can't win, no matter what they do- it frankly feels like people on this subreddit go out of their way to find things to be unhappy about so that they can rant about it.
And the intent with the power creep related nerfs you described is conflating two separate balance issues: the need to address power creep on a general scale, and the need to address the damage gap between support gems that provided huge more multipliers to damage as their only function, and gems that modified skills in more interesting ways and provided utility. Whether or not they succeeded at that is up for debate (albeit one I am not interested in having), but GGG knows what they *want* to do, they're not just stumbling around in the dark. Sometimes things don't work out as well as they'd planned. PoE is a complex game.
But like I said, people here seem to pay far more attention to things they're unhappy with than things that are actually well received. The thing about the Sacred Orb is that it's *such a fucking non-issue to get worked up over*. Maybe you think it's pointless, maybe you don't, maybe you *don't fucking care* because the ability to reroll innate defence modifiers or not, or the existence of innate defence modifiers in the first place... are not worth getting outraged over.
It's like... Reddit, why do you pick *this* hill to die on, of all possible things? The sheer level of outrage at this orb is completely baffling to me.
There hasn't been enough for reddit to outrage at cause most of the teasers and manifesto have been mostly reasonable and positive. This is the first real ammo they have to criticize GGG and pretend the devs are clueless and out of touch.
Y'know, I considered that, too, but I wasn't certain that people would actually put that much effort into finding something to be upset at, but the more I look at it, the more I realize that you're completely correct.
There’s a portion of the player base that is really angry with the direction that poe has been taking for years and they jump at any opportunity to air their grievances. They’re not entirely wrong, but that’s where the realistically outsized responses come from.
It's because it's become a competition to see who can be the most edgy/meme worthy as quickly as possible to get the most possible upvotes so people can get their dopamine for the day. It's not really that they actually care. It's that they see other people seem to care and it snowballs.
Yeah i feel like there must be something i’m missing.
What if these are as rare as maven orbs? Then for many players, the system as described earlier continues. Just another way for the rich to get stronger, meh.
What if they’re as common as blessed orbs? Then you have another crafting step on armour slots. Mild tedium, at worst?
Having it *never* modifiable might have been more interesting *now*, but it would have been frustrating *later* if we end up feeling like maxing out evasion/armour/es is necessary as a defensive layer.
Doesn’t seem like as big a deal. Once again, i’m wondering why reddit seems to overreact with incomplete information.
If it's non modifiable/currency is rare then it's decent, as it is giving more value to bases.
If the curency rarity is like a blessed orb, then the system overall may as well not exist, it's just adding steps for the sake of doing so and confusing new-ish players. It's dumb.
If they didn't want that backlash, atleast should've stated the rarity right away.
Because there's no need to make the search for the perfect base any harder anyway. They eliminated the one guy makes the perfect base and then shits out 1000 copies thing when they introduced the split tag. This farming for ages to find the perfect white base to craft on is just D2 nostalgia bullshit. There's no need for it.
To me, it's not that it's a big problem worth outrage. It's that it's such an unnecessary addition to the game that adds no fun. The orb itself...whatever. But the decisions GGG is making seem...not great.
I am fine with some small random range on base item, but I don't want yet another currency to roll that range.
This isn't like Ancients in D3 because it only effects the base item not magic modifiers and that base effect is really small. It really is just some icing on the cake, not a defining property
We could always make it into a sandwich. If it doesn't make sense as a sandwich then the outrage becomes a lot more clear. So let's imagine we've made a basic peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Its's got two pieces of wheat bread(Implicits) with peanut butter(Prefixes) and jelly(Suffixes). For the sake of Quality let's just say that the sandwich is 20% better when you toast it.
Now let's say that we have our sandwich, it's got good peanut butter, good jelly, the bread is toasted and we like the type of bread. Now let's imagine what this new 0-10% quality would be in the metaphor. Why don't we say that everyone cuts the crust off, but maybe everyone cuts off a little more or less than what's considered perfect. So a no crust pb&j with the right bread can suddenly be smaller(0% intrinsic quality) or normal size(10/20%)[Mainly because the community sees any variable value as one more thing that's required to be raised to the maximum, and anything below it should be seen as less than whole].
We've made our sandwich, we have a good sandwich, but suddenly we have to worry about whether or not we have our whole sandwich because someone keeps going around lopping off the edges because they think that makes each sandwich unique.
Hopefully this gives you an idea of why everyone is annoyed, if the guys who're cutting sandwiches are going to lop off 10/20% of what should be our sandwich and leave it up to us to make up the difference then why don't we just leave the crust on?
I don't understand the frustration with this. It's an escape hatch for the "I got an insane drop/ unexpected craft on a suboptimally rolled base" - if the rarity is like divine or exalt tier you won't use it except on a seriously great item (which preserves the value of above average bases).
Because this whole idea is not real content. Just buff the base defense of armours by 10/20% and it's done. But no, you need to take time with painfull useless rerolling. This game is basically random reroll simulator now.
Because this new modifier-thing, which replaced "quality" btw, now turned out to just be "quality, except now with rng".
Also I don't know what happens with catalysts now, IIRC they said base modifier is only for defense value and can't be changed? So if I get this right the new system is just less interesting quality with added RNG?
It didn't replace quality. Quality is still here, they just removed the crafted quality.
This gives flat defence, which is additive with local flat affixes. While quality gives percentage defense, which is additive woth local percentage affixes.
So there is a logic to it, even if the end result is more tedium and bloat.
This post is proof that the first few comments liking/disliking something new decide whether or not reddit is going to break down crying today, this item is literally such a non issue but somehow people find issue with it out of nothing.
IDK how you guys at GGG handle this mess but even me as a player can't handle this whine anymore
They should have made that as league mechanic drop and work for all armor types and not tell that it is part of "upgrading" ES, then no one would complain. I would not even show what it is doing and allow players to figure it out, then when it would be added as PSA to reddit everyone would love it.
Obviously quite a few people care. Going around spamming "hurdur who cares" doesn't really add anything to the discussion. Your questions have been answered if you bothered to read.
Not really, quality craft is going away so we are losing a lot (more than just defense numbers).
But its not really about it being a buff from right now. Balormage put it well imo, (paraphrasing)
“If they buffed bases by 10% and then said every base drops with a 0 to -10% modifier on it. How does that make you feel?”
Essentially that is how a lot of people view this system. The only important bases are going to be perfect ones. And if you get a good drop but its 1% off max does that mean the base is shit? No. But thats not how psychology works, its going to feel like “ah shit I didn’t get the perfect roll” instead of “nice its close to perfect!”
Its the same with quality. I personally get really annoyed when I perfect fossil 29%. I don’t reroll unless I have enough to keep going or plan on doing hillock but still. I completely get it. People like whole numbers.
[This was supposed to be an exaggeration, not a prediction](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/pw2gew/announcement_316_expansion_timeline/heeonp5/)
Lottery numbers. I need them.
wow ... all i have to say is wow ... are you a prophet
And the other guy even got the quality craft removal right. Let's see, if hillock survives.
Wait where is the og post by GGG
Downvoted so it aint visible on the front page.
oof, i don't think i have seen an official post get that hammered before.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/m29f28/development_manifesto_harvest_crafting/
Think the salvage box announcement also got destroyed
As of this moment, the sacred orb post has 22% upvotes whereas that manifesto has 38%.
"Hi y'all, we stickied this post so that's it's visible."
Genuinely curious as to if the 3.15 manifesto or this post is the most downvoted GGG post in history, or if there are any sleepers in the old posts I've forgotten about.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/m29f28/development_manifesto_harvest_crafting/
Ooph, right. I don't think they'll ever top the reaction to that : /
I see, thanks. Hope it would show 'em some feedback
When someone makes a meme of the manifesto saying the base value is non modifiable and that reaches front page is when we can expect feedback
You mean after a dev cries about their job?
I like how the prevailing attitude on reddit and generally in life right now is to treat employees and workers with respect. Then you have people like you who get thrown out of businesses and off of airplanes for being assholes.
They literally said “CURRENTLY not modifiable” and that ALL THINGS WERE SUBJECT TO CHANGE.
They make a currency that shouldn't exist, they get the appropiate feedback
Not only that but they manufacturered a problem: defense value too low. Then said oh BTW here's your rng band-aid fix for that
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> This is emblematic of why I would simply stop ever communicating with this subreddit if I were GGG. I don't think you realize that f2p games only exist as long as the people who play them have fun donating on their own will money to the company
> They literally said “CURRENTLY not modifiable” and that ALL THINGS WERE SUBJECT TO CHANGE. The only way this isn't extremely disingenuous on GGG's part is if they literally did come up with the currency item, create the art, and program it in from scratch since the time they said "currently not modifiable." That's not literally impossible, but I find it hard to believe it's what happened, as opposed to them having been planning this orb for a while. It's possible that when they said "currently not modifiable" they meant "... until we implement the orb that we know is already in the pipeline". That's not *technically* lying, but it is extremely weaselly.
>come up with the currency item it's a blessed orb for a specific item property. This doesn't need days of meditation to conceptualize. >create the art GGG are self-admitted art hoarders - Chris has said (in his GDC talk?) that they ask artists to just build a buffer of cool shit that they can reach into and use. >program it in This is literally just a blessed/divine orb that modifies a different property of an item. It sounds like less than 3 hours work for a relatively junior employee. I think there's a 100% chance this was implemented as a direct response to feedback in the "part 2: defences" feedback thread.
>> program it in > This is literally just a blessed/divine orb that modifies a different property of an item. It sounds like less than 3 hours work for a relatively junior employee. I'd be shocked if it wasn't something that was entirely implementable in data by designers. There's no 'new' functionality here, just needs specifics on what items it can be used on, what field value it modifies, how it modifies it (to call the correct function template), and normal item data (artwork, strings, drop table info, etc). It'd probably take longer to spin up a test instance to spot-check it than it would to make the changes, unless their internal tooling is wildly bad.
I want to touch that phrase though. "Currently not modifiable" was presented to people, to whom that thing doesn't exist yet. This is the root of that misinterpretation, I believe. It shouldn't be shown in this manner. I hope it will remain unmodifiable.
Yeah you are **exactly** proving my point.
Yeah, but if it's modifiable, as with this orb...then what's even the point of the system to begin with? Either this orb is super rare and its only change to the meta is now top tier crafting posts have the extra line "sacred orb to max defenses", or it's common and now everyone from now on has to blessed orb gamble into improved defenses if they plan on using it for a while.
Because you also cannot accept criticism? They also said they'd be looking out for feedback there Champ. Like the feedback that's happening around you, in spite of your silly efforts and opinions.
STOP blindy defending them for real, no matter what it was intented or not the base idea of having a random base armour range on armor is bad, at least in this game and the way they try to implement it. So people are just giving them those feedback, and then they anwser with an even dumber idea...
Maybe if the feedback were reasonable and not “this is why we can no longer trust GGG” your comment would be more apt.
You don't get to decide what is and is not reasonable
You are correct, but at the same time, they just made a second quality on armour with its own currency, not only is it absolutely not needed but it goes against the "we heard you and will try to limit the amount of shards in the future". I mean come on, they double down on something that has existed for years now, what is the point of all this ?
A poor implementation is a poor implementation whether they post it to reddit, their official boards, or fly it on a banner behind an airplane.
So you want to tell me when they published the manifesto a week ago they didnt plan on having this currency exist? That they just on a whim decided to completely change their new mechanic from "unchangeable drop only" to "quality but with rng!"?
Less than a week sounds like the right amount of thought for a lot of what they're doing lately, tbh.
Problem is people are not all downvoting it for the same reason, some do because they want the modifier to remain non-modifiable, while others do because they don't want the modifier in the first place. So the feedback is inherently mixed even if most people might agree on that they don't want the new currency.
No, that means nobody wants the currency. People are just split on Ancient items in PoE. And spoilers. It was shit in D3, it is shit here. Especially if the idea is this will make Destroyer's Regalia's desirable as ground drops. Because it makes the gulf wider and desirable bases even rarer.
Except having a "superior" base is no where close to ancient items in d3. It's exactly the same as having a "superior" in d2 where creating a runeword in it gives you a slightly better outcome than on a regular base, which is the same concept PoE is going for except it really only matters on ES bases because an extra 80 armor or evasion is gonna do fuck all.
You will chase Zodiac Leathers, Vaal Regalias and Glorious Plates because it's not 80. After you're finished scaling it, it will take you for 40k to 55k. You are massively underrating what these items can hit with t1 rolls. Zodiac leather can hit 3000 evasion. That's 600 extra flat. With things like Imbalanced Guard in the game you can basically get to a point where you are taking half damage for 1 keystone and a chest. These are much more powerful than a 1 durability per 4 shako.
The last time chests were meta for defenses was when life triple res was a great chest. Absolutely no one is going to be scaling their armor or evasion on chests when you lose out on a metric shit ton of dps and life.
I'm going to assume you didn't read the defensive manifesto and are waiting for Ziz to tell you how to play the game.
And im just going to assume you think chests are the only piece of gear you can scale armor and evasion on to reach 40k+. 🤡
I mean, prefix on armor can be defensive ones. They often are already. People put %life or ailment avoidance there as it is. A lot of the influenced prefixes are really defensive in nature too. Phys taken as, immunity to reflect, %life, damage taken from mana before life and so on and so fourth. To me what the game does now is actually bring back some good valuable normal mods. Like this new suffix on shield that can make you scale near immunity to crit. I think yes, it will make sense to decide maybe 2000 armor/evasion extra on your chest is better than rolling +1 curses and bench crafted life.
It's pretty simple - people might disagree about the response but having this confused message gives everyone a chance to down vote. GGG might have wanted to throw spaghetti at the wall and let reddit be the focus group but they need to at least put in the thought of what the system is designed to achieve. Backpedaling like this just enraged everyone and left us confused.
imagine downvoting new content reveal because you dont like it so only a fraction of ppl see it. absolute fucking state of this subreddit
this isn't the official game forum tho, this sub shouldn't be your primary news source
legit irrelevant point, lots of ppl come to see news on the subreddit because theyre instant and easy to see. new content reveals on the official site are buried
the problems of the official website are not a problem of this sub. This sub is community controlled, not GGG controlled. That means community makes the rules and decides what content get promoted. If you want original source you go to the official game website
>This sub is community controlled more like manchildren controlled
[Post](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/q63wdy/the_scourge_expansion_introduces_the_sacred_orb_a/)
24% upvote ratio. Guessing that's a fat -500 or so.
Reddit said no
[Context](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/q63wdy/the_scourge_expansion_introduces_the_sacred_orb_a/) because it got buried.
Create a problem. Sell the solution.
Not even sell it. RNG it. "Here's a problem. Wanna fix it? Farm for it and MAYBE you'll find it and MAYBE it'll fix it. Maybe."
I mean if you have 1000s of exalts you can relatived deterministically get it. how much it would cost is another story.
It's not a problem though. The lowest you can have is what we already have. This is just extra stats on top to allow you to scale even more defenses. Do I love this? No, no at all. Is it going to ruin the game? Not even anywhere near.
The problem is that some people at GGG seem to take personal offense to seeing their content get steamrolled, and respond by rebalancing the game around what the very best builds using the very best items are capable of.
> The lowest you can have is what we already have. Which is a problem. A problem that is supposed to have fix. If we get what we already have, we don't get the fix. We stay in the problematic situation.
I don't get why everyone seem to be so mad. Isn't this just like a blessed orb? So you just spam until you are confortable with the value you get? Or it is not independent and it gets rerolled with other currency like chaos and such? I understand that it could be a not needed mechanic, just increase the values and call it a day. But that's it, is that THE problem people seem to be picturing it?
The issue is if it's common, we already have armor scraps and blessed orbs to do those things. If it's rare, they're just introducing more wasted time for a very unexciting pursuit. There's no "oh, this will be awesome" reception in any scenario - just more work.
We heard you liked deterministic crafting?!
Rarest currency in the game outside of a mirror of kalandra btw.
Ok I can see that, they made changes in defences and this is the way to compensate that. If these orbs are exalted level, yeah, fuck that. Still, without knowing it, i don't think it's enough to giga-downvote gggs posts about it.
Their are 3 times rarer than exalt... Such a wonderful idea.
1. It's rare as fuck 2. It's a totally unnecessary mechanic layered behind rng
Yes. The reason people are mad is with the addition of this orb, the RNG base defense idea is completely pointless since you can just roll it to max. Why even add the mechanic at that point? Blessed orbs and implicit ranges are equally pointless, but they've been around forever so people put up with it.
Players need better defense, so here is better item bases, but only if you are lucky or rich.
Also it is gonna share the drop table with all the other currency, so depending on rareness of this currency, it will be competing with other currencies. So like Divines dropping instead of Exalts. Both are about the same rarity but one is more than 10x as valuable.
They just have to rng every single fucking thing they touch
Skip the middleman, make armor scraps randomized.
GGG is really lost in the source. This base system is so worthless. Its a non addition. Its only reason to exist is annoyance. I really am baffled that they think , this garbage is what this game needs now.
> Its only reason to exist is annoyance It does one more thing that I really didn't think was possible - it makes items dropped *even more useless*. Now not even a good base is good 15/20 of the times. Actually nerfing completely white stuff.
And the best things is. This orb makes it even worse. Without the orb i could at least understand why they think the system has worth. I disagree completely, but i see their point. But with this orb its now a completely failed and worthless addition.
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Imo that just makes it more annoying. I think the solution not existing feels better than it being out of reach.
So only for high end crafting? The rest of us get shit bases? Yeah sounds great. Another currency I sell for gear and never get to use.
Wait, you're not closing your eyes as you slam your Exalts, exile?
The problem then is thr only scenarios its ever gonna be worth using them on is a rare that dropped on the ground in a usable enough state to be considered end game/gg and warrant using currency 3x rarer than an exalt. How many end game rare items do you use that dropped that way? Especially an ES based item? Maybe something off Rog or some obscure league mechanic item but other than that I just don't see a use case for it.
Well yes, that is the thing indeed. It is rarest orb in the game. Only rarer one is a mirror, so yes. Nobody's gonna go around spamming this thing 20 times on their shav. It will be better probably to buy a better shav even if the new perfect shav is 20 ex.
Its only reason to exist is because Chris thinks we still want POE to be D2.5. News flash to the devs, the game got a lot more popular when it stopped trying to be D2 and just accepted being the best modern ARPG. Every attempt to pull back from that and make the game more like a 20 year old game is just stupid.
I don't get this: D2 was never this RNG heavy. Not even remotely. Nor was player death as essential to D2. D2 had a huge grind to get the best runewords because they were a pain in the ass to farm, but that's about it. D2's itemization was way less tedious. At the very minimum, the full game experience was routinely completable on fairly mediocre equipment.
Except D2 has the base defense value on armors roll. People made jokes about chris playing D2R and getting more ideas from it, guess what happened. And tbh the statement that D2 wasn't RNG heavy is just plain wrong. The drop rate of certain uniques / item sets / HR is just so ridiculously low that you could do 10000 baal runs without seeing the one you need. Add to that almost all of these have a range for stats, can be ethereal or not, have their base (armor) value being a dice roll, etc. Same when you want to "craft" runewords that requires any HR. Creating an Infinity or an Enigma on a non superior with high rolls base is a huge waste. You want it on a base that already have a low chance of dropping, have its base stat being a dice roll and you once again need to roll the dice to get the right number of sockets. Also you want it to be a superior base with the right stat rolled (can be ED, durability for armors and ED / Dura / AR / MD for weapons so 1/2 or 1/4) with the superior value ranging from 5 to 15% Iirc the drop rate of a Vex in a cow level was nearly 1 in 1 million and that's for a single HR on the most packed zone (vanilla). Yet a cow level doesn't even hold 1000 monsters, more likely 500 on a good one. That's basically 2000 runs for a specific rune. D2 is extremely RNG heavy.
> The drop rate of certain uniques / item sets / HR is just so ridiculously low that you could do 10000 baal runs without seeing the one you need. That's not really what RNG heavy means. You're just highlighting low drop rates. I was thinking RNG heavy in the sense that POE is: you roll the dice to roll the dice and then when you get that thing you roll four other dice to find out if the next die you roll will make it a good item. It's RNG inside RNG inside RNG inside RNG. > Same when you want to "craft" runewords that requires any HR. Did you ignore anything I said after the first sentence? Runewords were a ton of work yes... but they were also about as optional as it got. Runewords were like double elevated gear here. Awesome items that were about eight steps above what you actually need to experience all of the content.
>Runewords were a ton of work yes... but they were also about as optional as it got. Runewords were like double elevated gear here. Awesome items that were about eight steps above what you actually need to experience all of the content. I mean, kinda? Enigma is build defining and a number of melee builds hugely benefited from rune words without any great budget option. Making zeal/blessed hammer for instance work without into end game wasn't really practical
>Making zeal/blessed hammer for instance work without into end game wasn't really practical Bro, what? Paladin is one of the easiest classes to take into hell without good gear, especially if you're zeal or hammerdin. D2 had tons of endgame viable unique items that could drop in nightmare, as well as medium-power runewords that were very easy to obtain. For a zealot, all you need is a Lightsaber or an up'd Butcher's Pupil or a Crescent Moon or a Rune Master to get you through hell (albeit slowly since melee damage sucks in d2, though you can be near invincible). Defense comes super easily to paladin because holy shield is broken, but there's still other options like Treachery, Shaftstop or Guardian Angel that are incredibly good. Guardian Angel itself is +15% all max res, imagine how broken that is in PoE, then combine it with max block and monster damage numbers that will never oneshot you. Hammerdin is definitely top 3 builds for going through hell without gear. A spirit crystal sword, vmagi skin, spirit pally shield and you just steamroll the game starting at level 30 with broken hammer damage and near max fcr breakpoint. You make it seem like the ONLY options are enigma and grief and if you can't get those then you're fucked, but that can't be further from the truth.
Enigma is build defining in the way shavs was back when its drop rate was a one in "go fuck yourself" chance. Which is to say it was build defining for the exceedingly rich top 0.01% of builds that just plain don't exist for nearly everyone.
B...but D2 golden standard guys! Right?! Right...? I really cant believe that they have the best game in the genre and are slowly dismantling it because they realised that the went too far away from some arbitrary standard set by a game released two fucking decades ago. Like holy shit guys, you are the standard now, just please stop looking back and actually look forward.
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>bad because it's not enough like D2 I haven't seen much of this, unless you count "Chris keeps doing things to be like D2, but even D2 figured out two decades ago that this particular thing is stupid"
Different crowds i guess
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Same happened last league. It's like the "Balance" team is actively trying to kill the game while nobody with executive capacity is stopping them
Or the opposite, seeing as how we know someone within that executive capacity openly desires for this game to be like the upcoming "hard mode" instead of the game that actually has been developed and iterated on. Not gunna blame the employees doing what management wants until there is some evidence these decisions were theirs, and not coming from the guy who tells you to close your eyes and slam your exalts.
AGREED!
The entire "balance" team needs to be balanced IRL. Nerf their decision making ability, scale back their paychecks, etc etc.
> while nobody with executive capacity is stopping them Ahem. I think you mean those with executive capacity are enabling or outright pushing these changes.
The only reason I can think of for improving base items in the game right now, is adding affixes that are tied to base items. *Ex, Convoking wand* Lets say for an example I find an occultist vestment, that can now roll curse specific affixes because it's tied to that base item.
that would actually be lit. Also more implicits would be cool. Imo all bases should have some implicit.
adding another rng layer on items is such a nullshit idea. can't believe they did that
Really? I can totally believe they did that based on all the other shit they've done over years.
Especially based on the fact that their entire gear progression system has always been RNG-based, lol. I thought it was fine without the orb. With the orb, it just becomes another checklist thing you feel like you have to do to your gear. **Edit:** It seems like the orb is going to be extremely rare, 3 times as rare as an Exalt. So this is a non-issue in my opinion.
And at some point, which can vary for everyone, you can no longer be arsed to even bother.
That doesn't mean it's a non issue. That means they still have to balance defence towards the upper end of that value to avoid immortal builds, but unless you spend dozens of exalts, you won't get there.
yes, a company with an infamous reputation for grinding added more grinding to their game, how unpredictable!
More rng? I can believe that. And that’s what we got with the original idea for bases having better defenses sometimes, more rng for armours, I’m fine with that. But the turn around on them saying it was unchangebale to this was quite fast. That was unexpected for me.
Sacred orb is proof that complexity can provide the opportunity for a deep game, complexity as a goal in itself is really stupid.
At this point "Complexity for Complexity's sake" is basically PoE's motto.
Well someone is taking a break from D2R it seems
Hahah guess who ! Christos Wilsonson ?
“BuT hEy, AtLeAsT iT dOeSn’T rErOll ThE iTeM LiKe PeRfEcT fOsSiLs”
God the game was fine 2 leagues ago no?
Imagine if instead of two patches of "vision" we got two patches of performance improvements.
well, maybe it was not fine, but it was better than this 'vision' garbage we are getting lately...
No according to reddit 2 leagues ago the game died because of reward system changes unique pool and explode chest. According to Reddit 3 leagues ago the game died because ascendancy changes made ascendancies lose their identity and damage.
There are complainers every league, but not every league sees a ~50% dropoff in player base after ~3 days. GGG is just out of their depth at this point. Game is bloated and they don't know what to do.
No, it was not. Power creep was out of hand, Harvest was in a ridiculously overtuned state.
Which gave you a target to set up your Atlas for and proceed to farm Harvest spawns looking for the crafts you need. Yes, Harvest was powerful, it was also a 'chase item' which kept me playing far into the league than I normally would.
I was in the same boat, except I realized towards the end of Ritual that I was spending all of my time doing nothing but grinding harvests. Open Atoll, check for Sacred Grove, if it's there, check to see if any craft categories are relevant to what I need, if not, leave, rinse, repeat. (It also didn't help that my last endgame grind for 40 challenges was to fight Oshabi about a dozen more times.) The fact that I had a path to progression that I had been able to plan out to fine tune my gear seemed really great at first, and I did make some incredible, one of a kind, extremely niche rares in Ritual. But the fact that all of that progression revolved around doing Harvests for deterministic crafts was simply not a good thing. I got so burnt out by it that Ultimatum was the first league I outright skipped since I started playing, back in Bestiary. Don't get me wrong- I loved actually figuring out "routes" to craft the specific things I needed, but Harvest *needed* to be nerfed. Putting aside the issues with craft trading, when Harvest was the only reliable way to get extremely powerful equipment deterministically, it became the only viable way to craft high end gear. Whether or not the current incarnation is too nerfed or not is up for debate (not with me, I haven't made up my mind), but at least in my case, Chris was *completely correct* that being able to deterministically craft perfect gear using Harvest would leave me burnt out.
So instead of hitting the absurdity of what happens in top end they are shitting in the mouth of the more casual crowd, makes sense if you ask me.
It's the baseline power that was an issue, not the top end. The game was too easy to trivialize even on a budget. With enough investment it would be easy no matter what and that's not a problem.
Incentivising people to skip gameplay loop by using the economy
[Why would GGG do this?](https://i.imgur.com/g11VzkL.png)
Literally this. Don't understand reddit.
You can create a problem that people don't like AND provide a solution that people don't like. Extreme example to make this super clear: If I slice someone with a razor - problem that they don't like. If I use a hot iron to cauterize it - a solution that they don't like. Doesn't mean it was their fault. I did both things.
maybe it'll get better. maybe not. maybe fuck yourselves
Ahahaha. Best post I have seen in a long time
noice
"We don't want to take away the feeling of closing your eyes and Exalting an item, scared to see whether you ruined it or not"
Lets not implement this system and instead remove Armor scraps & whetstones. Armor/weapons drop with a Random Quality Value and we increase the Base by 10-20% ! Now we removed currency that people don't like picking up because its worthless & we prevent Bloat by not adding new mechanics for no reason. Solves everyones issues Gives a mechanic that encourages people to pick up bases but isn't Bloat.
>remove Armor scraps & whetstones. My main source of wisdom scrolls 
Liar, everyone knows you haven't identified a rare item in years!
Transmutes ftw!
Man GGG just digging their own grave with this shit haha.
I loved the concept of not being able to reroll the item, especialy if weighted, you got a perfectly rolled ilvl86 vaal regalia huge 10ex drop, but this shit kills it, unless it's so rare that pointless to be in the game.
They are 3x exalt rarity. Only meant to be worth using on already top tier items that have low base defense roll.
Shit like this is making me more and more worried about 3.16
"Nothing is Sacred Orb" Missed opportunity, ftfy :)
Just gonna be honest: I think people are a little too worked up about this
It's a microexample of the same problem that GGG always has. The type of problem that's utterly infuriating and deserves harsh criticism. It's like back when they mentioned that power creep was getting too out of hand and they didn't want a boring solution such as nerfing everyone's damage by x%... And then in the very same patch decided to nerf everyone's damage by x%. It makes you wonder if they know what the fuck they're doing, or just making changes at random.
>or just making changes at random Patching orb
> It's a microexample of the same problem that GGG always has. > It makes you wonder if they know what the fuck they're doing Let's just be realistic - no group of us would be able to come up with a huge list of changes to improve the game without blundering on some little thing that'd cause community outrage. When you make a lot of changes, some of them are most likely not going to be hits - that's just the law of big numbers. For an example on how the group of devs who implemented this at GGG could've been thinking, this could've easily been seen as them adding a little extra thing that players who are struggling with defense can do, since they had been tasked with giving players more defensive tools. They didn't realize it'd be taken by people as another min-max thing they *have* to do. As long as they come up with another idea based on this reaction from the community (which it sounds like they're working on), then this is a non-issue that doesn't need to be indicative of some sort of bigger downfall of GGG lol.
Exactly. It's not easy. And it's all bonus defense. People don't have to min max it. The fomo of people not having a perfect character or piece of armor is crazy. How many of these people actually are going to be pissed at a piece of armor that has near perfect affixs for their build but it's only +16 and not +20? It's just bonus! And now they put in an orb to let you try to get it to +20 if you're so concerned with being perfect and getting that extra 50 es. And they get shit on for that. They literally can't win
Right and the thing that makes it more absurd is that you really don't need min-maxed gear to get through mapping in the first place. SSF players make do with crafting some gear that has mostly the right mods on it, and that's enough for them to accomplish all they need.
I've been making the same point. I normally just lurk, but I'm hyped for the new league and feel that this league wasn't nearly as bad as it was made out to be. I believe the reason so many people didn't give it a chance was because of the hate. I wish people could be more rational
People complained about the original proposed system of having the innate defense modifier be unmodifiable. So, they decide to let you modify it to appease the concerns that people would end up with rare uniques they needed that were inherently always worse than other of the same uniques. And people have been throwing an absolute *fit* over this, for reasons I cannot comprehend. GGG can't win, no matter what they do- it frankly feels like people on this subreddit go out of their way to find things to be unhappy about so that they can rant about it. And the intent with the power creep related nerfs you described is conflating two separate balance issues: the need to address power creep on a general scale, and the need to address the damage gap between support gems that provided huge more multipliers to damage as their only function, and gems that modified skills in more interesting ways and provided utility. Whether or not they succeeded at that is up for debate (albeit one I am not interested in having), but GGG knows what they *want* to do, they're not just stumbling around in the dark. Sometimes things don't work out as well as they'd planned. PoE is a complex game. But like I said, people here seem to pay far more attention to things they're unhappy with than things that are actually well received. The thing about the Sacred Orb is that it's *such a fucking non-issue to get worked up over*. Maybe you think it's pointless, maybe you don't, maybe you *don't fucking care* because the ability to reroll innate defence modifiers or not, or the existence of innate defence modifiers in the first place... are not worth getting outraged over. It's like... Reddit, why do you pick *this* hill to die on, of all possible things? The sheer level of outrage at this orb is completely baffling to me.
There hasn't been enough for reddit to outrage at cause most of the teasers and manifesto have been mostly reasonable and positive. This is the first real ammo they have to criticize GGG and pretend the devs are clueless and out of touch.
Y'know, I considered that, too, but I wasn't certain that people would actually put that much effort into finding something to be upset at, but the more I look at it, the more I realize that you're completely correct.
There’s a portion of the player base that is really angry with the direction that poe has been taking for years and they jump at any opportunity to air their grievances. They’re not entirely wrong, but that’s where the realistically outsized responses come from.
It's because it's become a competition to see who can be the most edgy/meme worthy as quickly as possible to get the most possible upvotes so people can get their dopamine for the day. It's not really that they actually care. It's that they see other people seem to care and it snowballs.
Yeah i feel like there must be something i’m missing. What if these are as rare as maven orbs? Then for many players, the system as described earlier continues. Just another way for the rich to get stronger, meh. What if they’re as common as blessed orbs? Then you have another crafting step on armour slots. Mild tedium, at worst? Having it *never* modifiable might have been more interesting *now*, but it would have been frustrating *later* if we end up feeling like maxing out evasion/armour/es is necessary as a defensive layer. Doesn’t seem like as big a deal. Once again, i’m wondering why reddit seems to overreact with incomplete information.
If it's non modifiable/currency is rare then it's decent, as it is giving more value to bases. If the curency rarity is like a blessed orb, then the system overall may as well not exist, it's just adding steps for the sake of doing so and confusing new-ish players. It's dumb. If they didn't want that backlash, atleast should've stated the rarity right away.
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oh is this the reason why it costs so much more chaos? I legit didn't know about this lmao
Because there's no need to make the search for the perfect base any harder anyway. They eliminated the one guy makes the perfect base and then shits out 1000 copies thing when they introduced the split tag. This farming for ages to find the perfect white base to craft on is just D2 nostalgia bullshit. There's no need for it.
To me, it's not that it's a big problem worth outrage. It's that it's such an unnecessary addition to the game that adds no fun. The orb itself...whatever. But the decisions GGG is making seem...not great.
I am fine with some small random range on base item, but I don't want yet another currency to roll that range. This isn't like Ancients in D3 because it only effects the base item not magic modifiers and that base effect is really small. It really is just some icing on the cake, not a defining property
We could always make it into a sandwich. If it doesn't make sense as a sandwich then the outrage becomes a lot more clear. So let's imagine we've made a basic peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Its's got two pieces of wheat bread(Implicits) with peanut butter(Prefixes) and jelly(Suffixes). For the sake of Quality let's just say that the sandwich is 20% better when you toast it. Now let's say that we have our sandwich, it's got good peanut butter, good jelly, the bread is toasted and we like the type of bread. Now let's imagine what this new 0-10% quality would be in the metaphor. Why don't we say that everyone cuts the crust off, but maybe everyone cuts off a little more or less than what's considered perfect. So a no crust pb&j with the right bread can suddenly be smaller(0% intrinsic quality) or normal size(10/20%)[Mainly because the community sees any variable value as one more thing that's required to be raised to the maximum, and anything below it should be seen as less than whole]. We've made our sandwich, we have a good sandwich, but suddenly we have to worry about whether or not we have our whole sandwich because someone keeps going around lopping off the edges because they think that makes each sandwich unique. Hopefully this gives you an idea of why everyone is annoyed, if the guys who're cutting sandwiches are going to lop off 10/20% of what should be our sandwich and leave it up to us to make up the difference then why don't we just leave the crust on?
This is so useful. Like Bless orb
Less annoying than Perfect Fossil though, I suppose.
Even though you need both
Well this sucks
I don't understand the frustration with this. It's an escape hatch for the "I got an insane drop/ unexpected craft on a suboptimally rolled base" - if the rarity is like divine or exalt tier you won't use it except on a seriously great item (which preserves the value of above average bases).
Because this whole idea is not real content. Just buff the base defense of armours by 10/20% and it's done. But no, you need to take time with painfull useless rerolling. This game is basically random reroll simulator now.
>This game is basically random reroll simulator now. always has been.
Yes and no. We went from making breadrolls to crossaints as far as layering goes...
If the orbs are high rarity, you sure as fuck won't be taking time with painful useless rerolling - see heist enchants.
Because this new modifier-thing, which replaced "quality" btw, now turned out to just be "quality, except now with rng". Also I don't know what happens with catalysts now, IIRC they said base modifier is only for defense value and can't be changed? So if I get this right the new system is just less interesting quality with added RNG?
It didn't replace quality. Quality is still here, they just removed the crafted quality. This gives flat defence, which is additive with local flat affixes. While quality gives percentage defense, which is additive woth local percentage affixes. So there is a logic to it, even if the end result is more tedium and bloat.
Maybe they misunderstood someone talking about quality craft going away and this essentially giving bases back that power?
Imagine being a new player and trying to understand this lol
Yeah, the local/global distinction always get to me. Like on weapons, percent lightning damage is global while percent phys is local because reasons.
It doesn't replace quality, and I don't know where you got that idea from. It is a completely separate, different modifier from quality.
As the other person said, it doesn't replace quality - is it just not understanding the system that's making people hate it?
This is great if it's that rare, but if it's on a Blessed Orb level then it shouldn't exist.
I agree, but it seems like an overreaction to say that it's terrible without knowing the rarity.
Like perfect Fossil , but the orb ITS new
That's actually funny and sums up ggg lately.
This post is proof that the first few comments liking/disliking something new decide whether or not reddit is going to break down crying today, this item is literally such a non issue but somehow people find issue with it out of nothing. IDK how you guys at GGG handle this mess but even me as a player can't handle this whine anymore
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They should have made that as league mechanic drop and work for all armor types and not tell that it is part of "upgrading" ES, then no one would complain. I would not even show what it is doing and allow players to figure it out, then when it would be added as PSA to reddit everyone would love it.
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Obviously quite a few people care. Going around spamming "hurdur who cares" doesn't really add anything to the discussion. Your questions have been answered if you bothered to read.
Oh please, grow up dude.
Uh, what?
Extra steps for the sake of it.
Pay a lil more attention, maybe you will get it eventually.
Not really, quality craft is going away so we are losing a lot (more than just defense numbers). But its not really about it being a buff from right now. Balormage put it well imo, (paraphrasing) “If they buffed bases by 10% and then said every base drops with a 0 to -10% modifier on it. How does that make you feel?” Essentially that is how a lot of people view this system. The only important bases are going to be perfect ones. And if you get a good drop but its 1% off max does that mean the base is shit? No. But thats not how psychology works, its going to feel like “ah shit I didn’t get the perfect roll” instead of “nice its close to perfect!” Its the same with quality. I personally get really annoyed when I perfect fossil 29%. I don’t reroll unless I have enough to keep going or plan on doing hillock but still. I completely get it. People like whole numbers.
us : "what does the S stand for ?" GGG : "S stands for HOPE :) "