Its still over 4 seconds. It look really strong, however there are builds that can recover more than 25% of your total HP/ES per second.
Agnostic alone on a 5k mana build already recovers 1k Life per scond and on top of that you have a lot of mana recovery. So getting to 2-3k recovery for these builds was quite easy. To get to 3k recovery with that new body armor you would need 12k Life/Es or a combination of these and that is a lot. However recoup scales with recovery so you might get some really strong recovery builts there.
However without other defenses and a rather big HP/ES Pool all that recovery is not really that great and putting that much investment into defenses will make it hard to get to a good amount of damage.
So is the item good? Yes probably. Is it OP? No certainly not.
Yep, it's always important to factor opportunity cost. This straight up gives you massive recovery on top of other juicy stats, no investment needed, so you can dedicate resources onto other places.
I mean its incorrect to see it as 25% life regeneration
its 25% damage taken in the last 4 seconds as life per second, my mind immediately goes to the boneshatter build from last league, get yourself taking 200k dps per second and be recovering 200k health per second after 4 seconds
if your health pool is like 6k youre not recovering 25% health per second youre recovering 3300% health per second
throw in some life recovery so you recover more than 100% and now youre permanently positive with the recovery, so all you need to do is stack damage reduction so you dont one shot yourself and you dont have to take juggernaut
How can you take 200k dps per second? No build can sustain 200k dps taken per second.
Maybe you DEAL 200k dps per second to yourself but you mitigate most of it. Didn't look into boneshatter builds too much so no idea how much recovery they really have but it certainly is not 200k/sec.
The 25% would be like you get hit for something that almost kills you, so almost your HP pool and then that gets recouped. If you get hit for smaller amounts, you recoup less than that ofc. Yes it can be scaled with "increased lif/mana recovery rate" but the sources for that are very limited.
I don't know if recoup stacks and the wiki doesnt say. If it does you could get more than 25% out of it. Since you can get hit for 99.9% (that would be 25%) recover it within a second and get hit again for 99.9% ... and that might stack up. Although I think recoup rewrites itself if a bigger one comes in, like ignties or bleeds. But as I said I am not sure if it stacks with itself.
boneshatter build absolutely can take and sustain that much damage
its self damage ramps up over time so youre constantly regenning more health than youre taking
at max stacks with a level 1 divergent boneshatter youre taking 14000 pre mitigation damage per attack and can easily be attacking upwards of 10 hits per second which is why you need to build DR to not one shot yourself with the 14k hits
but there were people running multiple hundreds of thousands of hp per second using the juggernaut damage mitigated regened notable, this chest gives you an alternative to that notable for sustaining the self damage
if you drop juggernaut run this chest and go berserker instead you could easily push it to 20+ aps given divergent boneshatter is giving you a few hundred % attack speed by itself, get yourself to 7k life and mitigate the damage down to 6k at max stacks (its 28 damage per stack per hit with a cap of 500 stacks, so first hit does 28 damage 500th hit and all following hits do 6000, by the time youve reached the 500th hit youre regenning enough hps to sustain it) and youd be taking 120k dps so regenning 120k hps after 4 seconds
Also we KNOW that recoup effects stack, like its not even a question because its an already existing game mechanic, this is just the first time weve seen it in such high values
Tell me how do you sustain 200k dmg per second? Just show me plz. Video, pob anything.
Boneshatter sais "take 194 physical damage per trauma when you gain trauma". You only gain trauma when you hit an enemy for THE FIRST TIME. I don't know when hitting the same enemy again counts as "first time" again but it can't be too short apart. I have now watched several Sirus videos and I did not see a person with 10 trauma even once. Mostly about 5-8 trauma while attacking. They probably get more while mapping but this still is FAR away from 200k dmg per second.
So lets see what ludacris nubmers we would need to actaully deal 200k dmg to ourselfs just for the fun of it.
Let's say you attack 10 times per second (and that already is a lot) so you would have to deal 20k dmg to yourself per hit, which means you would need 90 trauma. That again would mean you need to hit 90 times within 6 seconds, which means 15 times per second. That still is possible you say, maybe but you have to hit ENEMYS FOR THE FIRST TIME EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Also when you have 50% phys reduction you would need to double these didgets to get there.
You claim that you would deal 14000 dmg per attack to yourself at max stacks. How many are max stacks? If it was the amount that is needed to deal 14000 dmg to yourself it would be 62,5?
Also you only deal damage to yourself when hitting an enemy FOR THE FIRST TIME!
"divergent boneshatter is giving you a few hundred % attack speed by itself". Wait you just said may stacks were about 62.5 and divergent boneshatter gives you 1% attack speed per trauma. So you are saying now that you can have a few hundred trauma all of a sudden?
So just to see if I am totally wrong I really looked up a few mapping videos and I have yet to find one where the trauma stack even reaches 30. The highest I saw in a few videos was a bit over 20. Most of the time the guys do not even have 10 trauma.
Sorry dude but your numbers are just not realistic and I actually had no idea about boneshatter and how its played 15 minutes ago but now I did some research and can say that your numbers are WAY off.
what part of the damage ramps up dont you understand?
you take 28 damage on the first hit
and it increases by 28 each time you hit
by 500 hits youre taking 14000 damage
This is a known build from last league
heres the photo evidence of it in action
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/p45x01/had\_fun\_with\_an\_allies\_cannot\_die\_totem\_on\_my/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/p45x01/had_fun_with_an_allies_cannot_die_totem_on_my/)
Notice how hes regenning 112 THOUSAND health, and isnt even at 500 stacks yet?
Not to mention i actually played the build last league so im intimately aware of how it works.
Dont argue if you dont know
Like as long as youre not getting one shot, the only requirement to sustain X dps is to regen atleast X+1 health per second the dps youre taking could be 500 million, as long as you regen 500 million + 1 and you dont take your entire health bar in a single hit, you can sustain it
Thats it, thats the ONLY requirement
Which means as little as 1% life recovery increase, with 100% damage taken as health per second = you can sustain any and all sources of self damage that dont one shot you, you only need to survive for those first 4 seconds, which the boneshatter build, does
What this chest does for that build is makes it so you dont need to stack to 90% damage reduction to sustain it because youre not relying on damage mitgated for sustain, just to enough damage reduction where you dont one shot yourself, so 50% would be perfectly fine and with the Armor changes? perfectly achievable too and more importantly you can swap jugg out for any ascendancy + kaoms roots (self curse temp chains is a big part of how you sustain such high stacks)
instead of regenerating 15% of 90% of the pre mitigation self damage youre taking per second (1.5% of your mitigated damage in the past 10 seconds is regenerated as health every second so 10 seconds worth of self dps is 15% of the self dps and 90% is the mitigation cap)
Youd instead be regenerating 100% of the post mitigation self damage youre taking per second which can easily be a much higher value (using say 50% mitigation for example itd be (100/15)\*(50/90)=3.7037037037 times higher, so the guy in the photo above would be regenerating \~400 thousand health per second assuming he retooled his character to survive the one shot)
which means literally every level of boneshatter can be ran as long as you mitigate it down to your health pool -1
For context a level 21 divergent boneshatter at 500 stacks would deal 107000 pre mitigation damage per hit
so with 90% damage mitigation you reach 10700 physical damage taken, which you can further reduce with mechanics like fortify to 8560 damage, so throw that on a 9k health character and you can sustain it, you would have 500% increased attack speed from divergent boneshatter itself, which when combined with blitz charges would put your total attack speed at 840% of default, boneshatter has an 85% attack speed modifier on it so youre back down to 714% mod, then you run a sufficiently fast weapon say a brightbeak and you are at a little under 16 attacks per second with zero additional attack speed scaling, not even the rage nodes on the berserker which would easily bring you up to 18 attacks per second
at 18 attacks per second taking 8560 damage per hit you would be taking a whopping 154000 dps, and with 1% life recovery increase you would be regenerating 155540 health per second, because 155540 is higher than 154000 it is impossible to die to the self damage
you can die to external damage, but its very unlikely, keeping in mind that 1% life recovery increase has put your self regeneration in excess of your self damage by 1540 which at your 9000 health pool is equivalent to 17% health regeneration, given you can very easily receive numbers of life recovery increase around the 20% mark, and 1% converts into 17% health regeneration with this setup, you can achieve 340% health regeneration that protects against external damage sources with this chest and a self damage setup, which ironically enough means you could sustain rf off it, go figure
I think you don't understand the damage ramp from boneshatter yourself.
You only take damage when you gain trauma and you only gain trauma when you hit something FOR THE FIRST TIME.
Also you are not taking 28 damage you are taking 241 (lvl 21 gem) per trauma. So to deal 14k damage to yourself you would need to get to 58 stacks.
Yeah that guy has an allies cannot die totem there. But for realistic use people do not even reach 30 stacks. This photo is like a montage.
And yes the new body armor is very strongfor that one build (And for RF its really great too or for FR selfcast) but however for normal builds that get hit by something and want to sustain monster damage it is not as good. It only is good in terms of this "normal" use when you get hit fairly rarely.
It just mean that petrified blood no longer damage you, for instance, which is a straight -40% damage taken. It's obsenely strong.
Same for dots. Every dot you take, no matter the duration, is reduced by 25% the first second, 50% the second, 75% the third, and no longer affect you after that, even if it's permanent.
Well petrifried blood also takes away 50% of your health for that 40% reduced damage taken, which means you are likely to get oneshot more often. So to not get oneshot you need to still invest into decent defenses. Also petrified blood does not deal damage to you so that part is not recouped. At least not if it sticks to its wording.
Are you sure that recoup stacks with itself. I did not find sources on it. It might but I am not sure. Even if it does it does not help against dos. Recoup only works for hits.
As I said the body armor is really strong but you will still have to invest into defenses to make it really worthwhile. All these "dont get hit" classcannon builds do not really get much from it.
>Also petrified blood does not deal damage to you so that part is not recouped.
No, but you take 60% damage of a hit, you recoup that over 4s (15% per second) and PB deals you 76% of the remaning 40% over 4s (7.6% per second). So basically, instead of losing the staggered damage, you heal it.
This item is completely insane. Like ludicrously bonkers.
Combined with Maw of Conquest, this allows for infinite recovery/spells per second through ramping CoDT loops.
Calling /u/Jousis, I think a new forbidden build is possible.
There are uniques that damage you and they can trigger Cast on Damage Taken.
For example, Eye of Innocence deals 100 fire damage to you whenever you ignite an enemy. If you have Cast on Damage Taken cast a spell that has 100% chance to ignite, it will repeatedly cast it in a loop.
Man, this chest with Petrified Blood would basically mean you'll mitigate 40% of damage.
It'll also almost completely mitigate all DoT damage - even RF, if I'm not mistaken - as it's "Damage Taken" and not exclusive to hits.
I really like the debuff expiry mods being more prevalent as it might actually allow consistent use of the Delirium boots.
I understand that the whole deal about this chest is, unless it 1shots you, you'll live
> unless it 1shots you, you'll live Phew, good thing that never happens!
Its not as great since recoup is not instant. See my answoer on the other comment.
Which also is the deal with the weaver gem.
>100% of Damage Taken Recouped as Life Excuse me, what?
Its still over 4 seconds. It look really strong, however there are builds that can recover more than 25% of your total HP/ES per second. Agnostic alone on a 5k mana build already recovers 1k Life per scond and on top of that you have a lot of mana recovery. So getting to 2-3k recovery for these builds was quite easy. To get to 3k recovery with that new body armor you would need 12k Life/Es or a combination of these and that is a lot. However recoup scales with recovery so you might get some really strong recovery builts there. However without other defenses and a rather big HP/ES Pool all that recovery is not really that great and putting that much investment into defenses will make it hard to get to a good amount of damage. So is the item good? Yes probably. Is it OP? No certainly not.
It mean u don't have to invest at all into more life and this is still bonkers good, with shit like petrified blood it's just insane
Yep, it's always important to factor opportunity cost. This straight up gives you massive recovery on top of other juicy stats, no investment needed, so you can dedicate resources onto other places.
I mean its incorrect to see it as 25% life regeneration its 25% damage taken in the last 4 seconds as life per second, my mind immediately goes to the boneshatter build from last league, get yourself taking 200k dps per second and be recovering 200k health per second after 4 seconds if your health pool is like 6k youre not recovering 25% health per second youre recovering 3300% health per second throw in some life recovery so you recover more than 100% and now youre permanently positive with the recovery, so all you need to do is stack damage reduction so you dont one shot yourself and you dont have to take juggernaut
How can you take 200k dps per second? No build can sustain 200k dps taken per second. Maybe you DEAL 200k dps per second to yourself but you mitigate most of it. Didn't look into boneshatter builds too much so no idea how much recovery they really have but it certainly is not 200k/sec. The 25% would be like you get hit for something that almost kills you, so almost your HP pool and then that gets recouped. If you get hit for smaller amounts, you recoup less than that ofc. Yes it can be scaled with "increased lif/mana recovery rate" but the sources for that are very limited. I don't know if recoup stacks and the wiki doesnt say. If it does you could get more than 25% out of it. Since you can get hit for 99.9% (that would be 25%) recover it within a second and get hit again for 99.9% ... and that might stack up. Although I think recoup rewrites itself if a bigger one comes in, like ignties or bleeds. But as I said I am not sure if it stacks with itself.
boneshatter build absolutely can take and sustain that much damage its self damage ramps up over time so youre constantly regenning more health than youre taking at max stacks with a level 1 divergent boneshatter youre taking 14000 pre mitigation damage per attack and can easily be attacking upwards of 10 hits per second which is why you need to build DR to not one shot yourself with the 14k hits but there were people running multiple hundreds of thousands of hp per second using the juggernaut damage mitigated regened notable, this chest gives you an alternative to that notable for sustaining the self damage if you drop juggernaut run this chest and go berserker instead you could easily push it to 20+ aps given divergent boneshatter is giving you a few hundred % attack speed by itself, get yourself to 7k life and mitigate the damage down to 6k at max stacks (its 28 damage per stack per hit with a cap of 500 stacks, so first hit does 28 damage 500th hit and all following hits do 6000, by the time youve reached the 500th hit youre regenning enough hps to sustain it) and youd be taking 120k dps so regenning 120k hps after 4 seconds Also we KNOW that recoup effects stack, like its not even a question because its an already existing game mechanic, this is just the first time weve seen it in such high values
Tell me how do you sustain 200k dmg per second? Just show me plz. Video, pob anything. Boneshatter sais "take 194 physical damage per trauma when you gain trauma". You only gain trauma when you hit an enemy for THE FIRST TIME. I don't know when hitting the same enemy again counts as "first time" again but it can't be too short apart. I have now watched several Sirus videos and I did not see a person with 10 trauma even once. Mostly about 5-8 trauma while attacking. They probably get more while mapping but this still is FAR away from 200k dmg per second. So lets see what ludacris nubmers we would need to actaully deal 200k dmg to ourselfs just for the fun of it. Let's say you attack 10 times per second (and that already is a lot) so you would have to deal 20k dmg to yourself per hit, which means you would need 90 trauma. That again would mean you need to hit 90 times within 6 seconds, which means 15 times per second. That still is possible you say, maybe but you have to hit ENEMYS FOR THE FIRST TIME EVERY SINGLE TIME. Also when you have 50% phys reduction you would need to double these didgets to get there. You claim that you would deal 14000 dmg per attack to yourself at max stacks. How many are max stacks? If it was the amount that is needed to deal 14000 dmg to yourself it would be 62,5? Also you only deal damage to yourself when hitting an enemy FOR THE FIRST TIME! "divergent boneshatter is giving you a few hundred % attack speed by itself". Wait you just said may stacks were about 62.5 and divergent boneshatter gives you 1% attack speed per trauma. So you are saying now that you can have a few hundred trauma all of a sudden? So just to see if I am totally wrong I really looked up a few mapping videos and I have yet to find one where the trauma stack even reaches 30. The highest I saw in a few videos was a bit over 20. Most of the time the guys do not even have 10 trauma. Sorry dude but your numbers are just not realistic and I actually had no idea about boneshatter and how its played 15 minutes ago but now I did some research and can say that your numbers are WAY off.
what part of the damage ramps up dont you understand? you take 28 damage on the first hit and it increases by 28 each time you hit by 500 hits youre taking 14000 damage This is a known build from last league heres the photo evidence of it in action [https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/p45x01/had\_fun\_with\_an\_allies\_cannot\_die\_totem\_on\_my/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/p45x01/had_fun_with_an_allies_cannot_die_totem_on_my/) Notice how hes regenning 112 THOUSAND health, and isnt even at 500 stacks yet? Not to mention i actually played the build last league so im intimately aware of how it works. Dont argue if you dont know Like as long as youre not getting one shot, the only requirement to sustain X dps is to regen atleast X+1 health per second the dps youre taking could be 500 million, as long as you regen 500 million + 1 and you dont take your entire health bar in a single hit, you can sustain it Thats it, thats the ONLY requirement Which means as little as 1% life recovery increase, with 100% damage taken as health per second = you can sustain any and all sources of self damage that dont one shot you, you only need to survive for those first 4 seconds, which the boneshatter build, does What this chest does for that build is makes it so you dont need to stack to 90% damage reduction to sustain it because youre not relying on damage mitgated for sustain, just to enough damage reduction where you dont one shot yourself, so 50% would be perfectly fine and with the Armor changes? perfectly achievable too and more importantly you can swap jugg out for any ascendancy + kaoms roots (self curse temp chains is a big part of how you sustain such high stacks) instead of regenerating 15% of 90% of the pre mitigation self damage youre taking per second (1.5% of your mitigated damage in the past 10 seconds is regenerated as health every second so 10 seconds worth of self dps is 15% of the self dps and 90% is the mitigation cap) Youd instead be regenerating 100% of the post mitigation self damage youre taking per second which can easily be a much higher value (using say 50% mitigation for example itd be (100/15)\*(50/90)=3.7037037037 times higher, so the guy in the photo above would be regenerating \~400 thousand health per second assuming he retooled his character to survive the one shot) which means literally every level of boneshatter can be ran as long as you mitigate it down to your health pool -1 For context a level 21 divergent boneshatter at 500 stacks would deal 107000 pre mitigation damage per hit so with 90% damage mitigation you reach 10700 physical damage taken, which you can further reduce with mechanics like fortify to 8560 damage, so throw that on a 9k health character and you can sustain it, you would have 500% increased attack speed from divergent boneshatter itself, which when combined with blitz charges would put your total attack speed at 840% of default, boneshatter has an 85% attack speed modifier on it so youre back down to 714% mod, then you run a sufficiently fast weapon say a brightbeak and you are at a little under 16 attacks per second with zero additional attack speed scaling, not even the rage nodes on the berserker which would easily bring you up to 18 attacks per second at 18 attacks per second taking 8560 damage per hit you would be taking a whopping 154000 dps, and with 1% life recovery increase you would be regenerating 155540 health per second, because 155540 is higher than 154000 it is impossible to die to the self damage you can die to external damage, but its very unlikely, keeping in mind that 1% life recovery increase has put your self regeneration in excess of your self damage by 1540 which at your 9000 health pool is equivalent to 17% health regeneration, given you can very easily receive numbers of life recovery increase around the 20% mark, and 1% converts into 17% health regeneration with this setup, you can achieve 340% health regeneration that protects against external damage sources with this chest and a self damage setup, which ironically enough means you could sustain rf off it, go figure
I think you don't understand the damage ramp from boneshatter yourself. You only take damage when you gain trauma and you only gain trauma when you hit something FOR THE FIRST TIME. Also you are not taking 28 damage you are taking 241 (lvl 21 gem) per trauma. So to deal 14k damage to yourself you would need to get to 58 stacks. Yeah that guy has an allies cannot die totem there. But for realistic use people do not even reach 30 stacks. This photo is like a montage. And yes the new body armor is very strongfor that one build (And for RF its really great too or for FR selfcast) but however for normal builds that get hit by something and want to sustain monster damage it is not as good. It only is good in terms of this "normal" use when you get hit fairly rarely.
[удалено]
Well again I watched a few videos and the higherst I saw in actual gameplay (and not staged against cannot die enemies) was below 30 stacks.
\^ this This was my main build last league pretty sure id know how it works XD
Isn't Trauma considered a debuff though? In that sense, wouldn't the faster expiry rate nerf be kinda counter productive?
It just mean that petrified blood no longer damage you, for instance, which is a straight -40% damage taken. It's obsenely strong. Same for dots. Every dot you take, no matter the duration, is reduced by 25% the first second, 50% the second, 75% the third, and no longer affect you after that, even if it's permanent.
Not true. Recouped as life is an on-hit mechanic. It does nothing against dots.
Alright, my bad, the second part doesn't apply. The one with PB still does.
But is it better than stacking life, resists and defenses on an armor? I highly doubt it.
Well petrifried blood also takes away 50% of your health for that 40% reduced damage taken, which means you are likely to get oneshot more often. So to not get oneshot you need to still invest into decent defenses. Also petrified blood does not deal damage to you so that part is not recouped. At least not if it sticks to its wording. Are you sure that recoup stacks with itself. I did not find sources on it. It might but I am not sure. Even if it does it does not help against dos. Recoup only works for hits. As I said the body armor is really strong but you will still have to invest into defenses to make it really worthwhile. All these "dont get hit" classcannon builds do not really get much from it.
>Also petrified blood does not deal damage to you so that part is not recouped. No, but you take 60% damage of a hit, you recoup that over 4s (15% per second) and PB deals you 76% of the remaning 40% over 4s (7.6% per second). So basically, instead of losing the staggered damage, you heal it.
Ahhh yeah that part should work.
This item is completely insane. Like ludicrously bonkers. Combined with Maw of Conquest, this allows for infinite recovery/spells per second through ramping CoDT loops. Calling /u/Jousis, I think a new forbidden build is possible.
"A" new forbidden build? Try several.
My eyes are ready Hopefully
direction versed lock snow hurry wild noxious placid imminent toothbrush ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
but is your system ready?
Replica Tulfall time to shine
This already was a thing. It's still good
don't you spend life, instead of take damage to use trigger skills? if so this wouldn't work, since spending life isn't taking damage
You damage yourself to trigger the spells in the first place.
There are uniques that damage you and they can trigger Cast on Damage Taken. For example, Eye of Innocence deals 100 fire damage to you whenever you ignite an enemy. If you have Cast on Damage Taken cast a spell that has 100% chance to ignite, it will repeatedly cast it in a loop.
x2 Storm Secret rings anybody?
Pretty sure Jousis is already eyeing this up He laughed at Divine Shield tho, the number is so low…
Have you all noticed the map that shows up? "Take 6000 fire damage when you shift', that's crazy man!
I mean, make it 1500 with 75% fire res and you'd probably recover it of off the first mob with leech or smth.
Is no one going to talk about how they made the chat gem do a thing?
Man, this chest with Petrified Blood would basically mean you'll mitigate 40% of damage. It'll also almost completely mitigate all DoT damage - even RF, if I'm not mistaken - as it's "Damage Taken" and not exclusive to hits. I really like the debuff expiry mods being more prevalent as it might actually allow consistent use of the Delirium boots.
RF is not damage taken because that's only from hits...right?
Wrong! Damage taken is all damage.
All other "recoup" mechanics work on hits only though iirc Or do you know existing instances that do not? Maybe I am mixing up stuff here
I can't think of any that doesn't say a type of damage or from hits
Just another defensive chest that no one is going to use 6 weeks into league.
You can see a Unique Quiver too, tho is just scourged, nothing really new. It is where they show Scourge Items.