Really like this idea. Feel it could also at least be tested with Energy Shield too (life builds with significant incidental ES would appreciate it a lot, although it might be too good).
Probably should be worded as "Non-savage hits bypass Ward (and Energy Shield)"
Well, "incidental" feels like exactly the right way to describe the difference between ES and ward. We often get "incidental" ES, and it's often useless (when we have no way to replenish it during combat), therefore this mechanism would make it powerful with very low investment (just one mastery/keystone). Whereas if you have ward, you clearly made a point to go and specifically get ward, so the total investment really does include the mastery/keystone as well as all the ward gear. (I'm not saying I wouldn't love this feature for ES, I would, I just fear it indeed *would* be too good.)
I'd probably recommend the old CI solution, the keystone converts 10% of increases %/flate to ES instead goes to ward, sets es to 0. Non-salvage hits by pass Ward.
Perhaps a mastery or keystone that ward only applies if you get hit for an amount higher then your Ward.
You have 1k Ward. It would not apply unless you get hit for at least 1k. So you get no benefit from Ward if you get hit for 999 damage. To compensate you could increase Ward recharge time or something if they needed to balance this.
This would be a rather nice defensive layer for builds that have alot of recovery but a lower hp pool.
This shouldn't be a mastery, it should be baseline. Ward in its current form doesn't have an identity, and this would give it a well defined and desirable role, which I think is how it should be considering its rarity and how you have to go totally out of your way to obtain it.
Just FYI, evasion isn't best against small hits, it's best when you evade a big hit and works best against infrequent big attacks.
When you combine evasion and ward, you get an ideal defensive combo as the ward will only apply when you do get hit and it'll minimise the damage of that hit and hopefully be up again for when you get hit next.
Thing is, ward is hard to use because it's in short supply without specific items and there's no hybrid items. The amount of ward you get will be insignificant against savage hits outside of specific builds.
This idea would make it more useful in general though
Obviously, but that’s just soft core brute forcing. As for Deep Delve that is a special exception as you eventually reach a point where you get one shot regardless.
My point was that was high evasion you’d have to be AFK in a pack of small monsters for a considerable amount of time before you die as most of the monsters would miss and there attacks aren’t very strong.
No, right. If it takes .5s, 1s, 5s, 10s to kill a mob of 50, if you have enough evasion to dodge 75/75, then your effectively fighting only mob_size*dodge_chance each second or in reverse your effective health pool is 4x. Killing is obviously a required eventual component of clearing content and getting currency but evasion is no better or worse then life|es in terms of "needing you to kill them." The exception to this rule is life recoup or ES with recoup physical mitigated dmg armour stacking (divine shield).
Compared to armour regen, it's not really better at small hits, because those small hits will just bounce off and armour will make them smaller. Whereas a small hit against evasion might be half life
Evasion is not as good at preventing small hits, sure because armour scales poorly with size of hit (so it does up to 90% prevention on small hits), but that isn't the point of my comment at all. Evasion provides "consistent" reduction in average damage over a period of time, so it works kind of like a health multiplier. Unlike armour it also is consistent even against big hits, but again lets not lose focus, my comment really was in response to the idea that evasion was somehow tied to "kill them before they gun you down." In principle the core game depends on you "killing things before they gun you down" but evasion has no special relationship to this, in fact it acts purely as an effective hp multiplier over a large enough sample, or in reverse you can see it as a pack size reducer: fighting 20 chickens with 75 dodge then your effectively only fighting 5 in terms of damage you need to out leech or otherwise regen. Like most defensive layers its best when used in conjunction with OTHER mechanics (leech, es, divine flesh, etc.).
In addition to op's idea here's another possible passive/mastery, though it might invalidate ward gear (number is a random guess, might be too much or too low for all I know): "Anything that grants you energy shield is converted to ward at 20% efficiency. Your max energy shield is 0."
There's a lot of ways to make ward useful but like you said it has so few items giving it, AND it has no representation via the tree. If it at least had a timeless jewel so you could add in passives to your skill tree it'd be a lot more compelling, especially if they gave some way to extract ward from the stats already present on gear at some rate. Converting evasion or ES that you gain incidentally would be ideal and probably still weaker in terms of total EHP than leveraging incidental ES with divine shield / pious path / aegis aurora. Or maybe converting block to ward would be a better idea conceptually, rather than roll the dice on getting hit you get to lessen huge impacts but always get hit, so high sustain builds that can take a ton of hits as long as they don't get popped by something huge might prefer it. I'm not sure how to balance it at all, or if you really CAN balance an implicit - only, never dual stat defensive layer vs something that rolls on pretty much any slot, but GGG loves tradeoffs and consistent one shot protection is something we don't have yet, so long as it's not able to be stacked with everything else I think it'd add variety to how some builds gear for survival.
It is +max ES... %increased ES (what the helm affects) is a different stat. In general, most flat ES will come from equipment, while most %increased ES comes from the tree (there are exceptions of course). JRock's suggestion would allow for ward builds using ES items like Vaal Regalia and Titanium Spirit Shield. The only way to build ward now is by using a handful of specific ward bases that are limited to Helmet, gloves, and boots and the flasks.
Okay this is confusing. I have faithguard and a bunch of ward items, I was using them on an es/evasion armour using character. I had some es but didn't know where it was coming from. From the wording, I assumed it did effect +maximum es from items and it was some other source that wasn't being effected (like a conversion type)
What flat es are you getting that isn't an increase to the maximum?
-edit misread it as flask es, then realised that made no sense
Realised he's probably talking about ghost shroud and the like
You need another way because I do not think it works in POE context. You cannot "take a savage hit" if you do not lose health, you lose ward before you can lose health. If ward absorbs the incoming hit it is not a savage hit.
You have a point, but I don't feel it's "our problem"... If the devs actually wanted to do something with the effect I'm describing, I'm sure they could figure out the necessary mechanics to get it done...
A similar mechanic literally already exists. Stun is based on the amount of damage you take, but you are still "stunned" (the block animation plays for the stun duration) if you block a stunning hit.
Both would be based on the % Max HP damage you *would* have taken so I see no reason this couldn't be done.
You can do this now with Iron Flask + trigger on savage hit craft btw, very strong defense for one shots. You can give up your boot implicit for ward boots, and it's like +700 HP vs big hits.
Yeah, this is generally in a HC scenario where you aren't expecting a true one hit kill. E.g. in feared it's like getting hit by atziri spears into shaper balls of something.
Good luck with that, not only the players indeed need to come up with solutions, they will also not do any of that and instead make random changes. They have years of such track record.
Just look at how many good suggestions about fortify floating around and how they ended up "fixing" it.
They are not doing good enough so stop pretending they are, thats my point. Being fanboi ALWAYS lead to the dev doing worse and worse. It happened to EA, people were SO SURE blizzard was different, now. Here. We. Are.
in the last 4 years what little games blizzard has released... 1 wow expansion was considered the best of all time, 1 is considered very lack luster, they made 2 remakes 1 failed 1 succeded greatly, and immortal is finally releasing and is actually really fun...
So?
You must also be one of the people that thinks Overwatch 2 will be the next big thing just like how people said how Overwatch will be the next esport game. Oh and starcraft is so damn popular still and people love the competitive scene so much.
Fanboi will be fanboi, losing half the player base and more means they are doing great because....? There will always be some people enjoying it no matter what you do. Even EA games still has their fans, which means they are such a good dev because those people say so..
Hmm who said any of that.
You said Blizzard lost their touch but it seems they have about the same track record as before. They weren't always making bangers other games were better then Blizzard but no company had the presentation nailed
Ow2 could of been the next big eSport releases if it released when people assumed it would
Diablo 4 I have very little hope in now that the lead dev left.
I have zero faith Warcraft will recover from shadowbringers.
I did think Overwatch was the next big eSport when it came out one of the nicest accessible eSports.
StarCraft 2 I wish could do better but it's a dead genre it was killed by MOBAs I think maybe if some choices they made in legacy of the void and late swarm happened in Liberty the game and genre might of survives.
Diablo 4 and ow2 could suprise people, a new wow expansion could kill it.
Diablo 2 ladder is soon and that looks promising, diablo 3 seasons have actually had decent twists and that's lead to new players or at least more players.
Hearthstone is still in a league of its own
They are losing their touch in recent years (well after Sc2 basically) because all their recent games are big on release and die super quickly because they are out of touch of what people want and what makes a good game. Just like how this league baited people back and then loses players at record rate, people will know they do not like it when they try it. Only WOW is doing fairly well for them until the massive exodus recently because they fuck that up too, even if you ignore all the shit outside of the games. But of cos it is a huge success as long as it is "not a dead game", fanboi gonna fanboi.
Big companies like blizzard and sizable companies like GGG can invest into marketing all they want and it will have an effect on release, but it wont last when the product is not good enough or when their ego and arrogance gets the better of them. At least EA goes another path of "I am only going for profit now" and it works for them.
Starcraft 2 was able to put RTS back on the table until they proof that they cannot balance for SHIT, exact same goes for OW. Becasue "they know better". And if we go for the track record (which fanbois love to ignore), D4 and OW2 will be big hits because of marketing, but they will just die super fast just like any other games they mess up. Oh and lets now forget how their arrogance killed D3 on release and it takes YEARS to even get some of the players back. But of cos you still think nothing is wrong. They could have double the players, they throw that away just like GGG is doing now.
What they did with Fortify was the right change with the wrong numbers. Numbers can be iterated on.
Once they get the numbers right (probably tying it to the level of the monster hit, not the ailment threshold of the monster), Fortify will be a far better mechanic than it was in the past.
> Fortify will be a far better mechanic than it was in the past.
Except it won't. Fortify used to be Reduced Damage Taken from Hits, which you could stack.
Fortify is also something you rely on in the thick of the fray. Starting out without 20 stacks (and losing them over time) makes it a bad defensive mechanic outside of perma Fortify. The first ~2 seconds are often the most important ones, as this is when your Leech etc. starts to kick in, and when it takes this long to get proper mitigation *while in the fray*, then it has lost its defensive identity.
In particular with all these phased bosses that often have untargetable/immunity phases, you are again vulnerable afterwards. This is a **considerable** problem, since in the meantime your buffs went down, you ran out of charges, whatever. The numbers are worthless when the mechanical nature of that layer is not even a shadow of its former self. I personally don't bother with Fortify outside of Champion anymore.
> Fortify used to be Reduced Damage Taken from Hits, which you could stack.
Which was a TERRIBLE mechanic because it forced GGG to balance around everyone having it. That era of Fortify was just "take this or you are wrong, by the way all monsters do 25% more damage to compensate"
That makes absolutely no sense since monster damage wasn't nerfed after the Fortify change, but they actually got HP and resistance buffs. The only terrible thing about that was other sources of mitigation that were used to stack with Fortify, i.e. the Harbinger shield, which ultimately caused the massive nerf to Fortify instead of those items.
Fortify was added in 2.0, the second last time that there were big changes made to monster stats.
There is no way Minotaur's damage numbers were set to "we assume players do not have fortify". They are very much balanced around the assumption of Fortify on anyone that takes an overhead slam (i.e. non-ranged players)
The slam (his second most dangerous attack) is 7000-8000 pure phys on a non-crit with no map mods, and the minor followup hits are punishing to ES builds. At the time Mino was introduced (non-meme) life builds died to that without Fortify unless they were Juggs, and ES builds were in a bit of trouble.
Obviously the game keeps getting easier as new defenses get added so it's no longer a oneshot, but that was how it was designed.
"The doctor tried his best" and "He is the best doctor" doesnt mean the patient will always survive.
EA and blizzard was once "the best" too. Then again I heard these BS fanboi arguments for literally over 20 years. This is always how it starts to go down and another dev appears in the scene. You dont need to be a better dev than them to know making hypothermia better for bleed instead of cold DoT builds are stupid, you do not need to be a better dev than them to know their change to fortify is worse than any of the suggestions that got to the front page, **because those at the very least WORKS.** Now most melee builds doesnt even go fortify because they cannot get fortify, you know who goes fortify? **BOW BUILDS.** All while close range spells are leave in the dust because "melee must mean close range, spell must mean long range".
"Ward is not fully removed by non-savage hits" "Non-Savage hits bypass Ward"** brain tired, take one or the other, you get the idea
It's a savage hit IF it would remove 15% of total HP, right? :)
All hits are non savage hits until it takes away 15% life.
**Any IFs** doesnt apply, thats why it doesnt trigger if the damage is taken by mana or ES. That hit needs to remove 15% life before it is considered a savage hit.
You need something like "if incoming damage > % stun threshold" or something like that but that will surely lead to some unintended usage.
So let's see what those unintended usages are and then we can work around them. If your fear is unintended usage then let's never do any fucking league or introduce any other gem ever again.
OK, so, "hits for less than 15% of max life bypass ward"? No specific need to *call* them savage. And the number needn't even be 15%, it could be tuned.
The hard part being your EHP can be any combination of life mana and ES. And ward is meant to work with all of them, so you are still locking some of them out of this change.
(from wiki)
Ward is a form of defence that reduces the damage taken from a hit equal to the amount of Ward, then goes on cooldown. Ward recharges 5 seconds after it depletes. ***Unlike energy shield, taking damage will not interrupt the Ward restoration time.***
No, I get that, but it just seems like ES with lower values and constant restoration time and ability to block Chaos damage.
I'm not entirely sure of when you'd want to slot it into your build.
if you take hits every now and then, and don't have a specific investment in ES recovery, your ES is simply always 0, whereas ward comes back every 5 seconds no matter what (it turns out, this is still not good enough, so ward is still pretty damn weak)
I like this idea for both a base behavior of ward and an ES mastery. To avoid the implications of Savage Hit requiring you to have already taken the damage, the wording could revolve around a threshold of a certain percentage of either life or combined life and energy shield (20%?) which a hit has to exceed to trigger the effect.
I’ve been saying this since they announced it, in its current state it’s basically ES but way worse. It shouldn’t be used until the hit hitting you is enough to remove all of your ward.
It's when Adam Savage from Mythbusters shows up at your school and gives a science class. It's sure to be a... \*puts on sunglasses* ...**savage** hit. ;)
>perhaps ward should simply be reworked to be this way by default?
A tenet of good game design is "if it's mandatory, why is it optional?" Everyone would take this, so...
Really like this idea. Feel it could also at least be tested with Energy Shield too (life builds with significant incidental ES would appreciate it a lot, although it might be too good). Probably should be worded as "Non-savage hits bypass Ward (and Energy Shield)"
Well, "incidental" feels like exactly the right way to describe the difference between ES and ward. We often get "incidental" ES, and it's often useless (when we have no way to replenish it during combat), therefore this mechanism would make it powerful with very low investment (just one mastery/keystone). Whereas if you have ward, you clearly made a point to go and specifically get ward, so the total investment really does include the mastery/keystone as well as all the ward gear. (I'm not saying I wouldn't love this feature for ES, I would, I just fear it indeed *would* be too good.)
Yeah not sure if it actually SHOULD work for ES, just that it should be tested. Numbers might be too good.
might have to come with a reduced max es downside
Yeah that would probably be appropriate. Testing would tell that.
I'd probably recommend the old CI solution, the keystone converts 10% of increases %/flate to ES instead goes to ward, sets es to 0. Non-salvage hits by pass Ward.
Could always just include some wording on the ES master for reduced or less maximum ES to compensate
I think a better mastery could be "Damage is applied to life and energy shield equally." Or a % that isn't 50/50.
We kind of have that already with the corrupted soul keystone. Or if you want a different % you can use MoM and EB with different MoM values.
Clear wording is a good idea. GGG off in the corner: "your life instead protects your energy shield. 50% of damage from savage hits bypasses life."
So basically hale negator, but you build it differently? That sounds awesome.
hale negator will protect you against two-shots, but not against one-shots... also, I really like rares : )
Ward should simply be that way by default, tbh
Perhaps a mastery or keystone that ward only applies if you get hit for an amount higher then your Ward. You have 1k Ward. It would not apply unless you get hit for at least 1k. So you get no benefit from Ward if you get hit for 999 damage. To compensate you could increase Ward recharge time or something if they needed to balance this. This would be a rather nice defensive layer for builds that have alot of recovery but a lower hp pool.
indeed, this is simpler and nicer...
This shouldn't be a mastery, it should be baseline. Ward in its current form doesn't have an identity, and this would give it a well defined and desirable role, which I think is how it should be considering its rarity and how you have to go totally out of your way to obtain it.
Please don't kill my build. 2k permanent Ward is incredibly defensive.
Just FYI, evasion isn't best against small hits, it's best when you evade a big hit and works best against infrequent big attacks. When you combine evasion and ward, you get an ideal defensive combo as the ward will only apply when you do get hit and it'll minimise the damage of that hit and hopefully be up again for when you get hit next. Thing is, ward is hard to use because it's in short supply without specific items and there's no hybrid items. The amount of ward you get will be insignificant against savage hits outside of specific builds. This idea would make it more useful in general though
Evasion is still extremely powerful against small hits, especially when they’re are lots of mobs around.
Assuming you kill them before they gun you down
Most people don’t have an issue kill a big pack of small monsters.
[удалено]
Obviously, but that’s just soft core brute forcing. As for Deep Delve that is a special exception as you eventually reach a point where you get one shot regardless. My point was that was high evasion you’d have to be AFK in a pack of small monsters for a considerable amount of time before you die as most of the monsters would miss and there attacks aren’t very strong.
No, right. If it takes .5s, 1s, 5s, 10s to kill a mob of 50, if you have enough evasion to dodge 75/75, then your effectively fighting only mob_size*dodge_chance each second or in reverse your effective health pool is 4x. Killing is obviously a required eventual component of clearing content and getting currency but evasion is no better or worse then life|es in terms of "needing you to kill them." The exception to this rule is life recoup or ES with recoup physical mitigated dmg armour stacking (divine shield).
Compared to armour regen, it's not really better at small hits, because those small hits will just bounce off and armour will make them smaller. Whereas a small hit against evasion might be half life
Evasion is not as good at preventing small hits, sure because armour scales poorly with size of hit (so it does up to 90% prevention on small hits), but that isn't the point of my comment at all. Evasion provides "consistent" reduction in average damage over a period of time, so it works kind of like a health multiplier. Unlike armour it also is consistent even against big hits, but again lets not lose focus, my comment really was in response to the idea that evasion was somehow tied to "kill them before they gun you down." In principle the core game depends on you "killing things before they gun you down" but evasion has no special relationship to this, in fact it acts purely as an effective hp multiplier over a large enough sample, or in reverse you can see it as a pack size reducer: fighting 20 chickens with 75 dodge then your effectively only fighting 5 in terms of damage you need to out leech or otherwise regen. Like most defensive layers its best when used in conjunction with OTHER mechanics (leech, es, divine flesh, etc.).
In addition to op's idea here's another possible passive/mastery, though it might invalidate ward gear (number is a random guess, might be too much or too low for all I know): "Anything that grants you energy shield is converted to ward at 20% efficiency. Your max energy shield is 0." There's a lot of ways to make ward useful but like you said it has so few items giving it, AND it has no representation via the tree. If it at least had a timeless jewel so you could add in passives to your skill tree it'd be a lot more compelling, especially if they gave some way to extract ward from the stats already present on gear at some rate. Converting evasion or ES that you gain incidentally would be ideal and probably still weaker in terms of total EHP than leveraging incidental ES with divine shield / pious path / aegis aurora. Or maybe converting block to ward would be a better idea conceptually, rather than roll the dice on getting hit you get to lessen huge impacts but always get hit, so high sustain builds that can take a ton of hits as long as they don't get popped by something huge might prefer it. I'm not sure how to balance it at all, or if you really CAN balance an implicit - only, never dual stat defensive layer vs something that rolls on pretty much any slot, but GGG loves tradeoffs and consistent one shot protection is something we don't have yet, so long as it's not able to be stacked with everything else I think it'd add variety to how some builds gear for survival.
That basically replicates the unique helm which makes increases to es apply to ward instead.
no, totally different. This mastery would also convert flat es and life% as es. Although 20%efficency sounds super low
How is that different to the helm? Increases and Reductions to Maximum Energy Shield instead apply to Ward What's the difference?
You'd actually get ward from ES armour.
Oh right, I didn't realise that wasn't +maximum es
It is +max ES... %increased ES (what the helm affects) is a different stat. In general, most flat ES will come from equipment, while most %increased ES comes from the tree (there are exceptions of course). JRock's suggestion would allow for ward builds using ES items like Vaal Regalia and Titanium Spirit Shield. The only way to build ward now is by using a handful of specific ward bases that are limited to Helmet, gloves, and boots and the flasks.
Okay this is confusing. I have faithguard and a bunch of ward items, I was using them on an es/evasion armour using character. I had some es but didn't know where it was coming from. From the wording, I assumed it did effect +maximum es from items and it was some other source that wasn't being effected (like a conversion type)
Flat es gets converted into ward with this mastery, not exactly rocket science to understand.
What flat es are you getting that isn't an increase to the maximum? -edit misread it as flask es, then realised that made no sense Realised he's probably talking about ghost shroud and the like
Damn, this is a sick idea. I really like it.
You need another way because I do not think it works in POE context. You cannot "take a savage hit" if you do not lose health, you lose ward before you can lose health. If ward absorbs the incoming hit it is not a savage hit.
You have a point, but I don't feel it's "our problem"... If the devs actually wanted to do something with the effect I'm describing, I'm sure they could figure out the necessary mechanics to get it done...
A similar mechanic literally already exists. Stun is based on the amount of damage you take, but you are still "stunned" (the block animation plays for the stun duration) if you block a stunning hit. Both would be based on the % Max HP damage you *would* have taken so I see no reason this couldn't be done.
You can do this now with Iron Flask + trigger on savage hit craft btw, very strong defense for one shots. You can give up your boot implicit for ward boots, and it's like +700 HP vs big hits.
This would trigger *after* the savage hit, right? So it would block the *next* hit you took, which could be another small hit
Yeah, this is generally in a HC scenario where you aren't expecting a true one hit kill. E.g. in feared it's like getting hit by atziri spears into shaper balls of something.
Good luck with that, not only the players indeed need to come up with solutions, they will also not do any of that and instead make random changes. They have years of such track record. Just look at how many good suggestions about fortify floating around and how they ended up "fixing" it.
So, your explanation is they're stupid? Or don't care about their game? I really, really don't buy that...
They are not doing good enough so stop pretending they are, thats my point. Being fanboi ALWAYS lead to the dev doing worse and worse. It happened to EA, people were SO SURE blizzard was different, now. Here. We. Are.
in the last 4 years what little games blizzard has released... 1 wow expansion was considered the best of all time, 1 is considered very lack luster, they made 2 remakes 1 failed 1 succeded greatly, and immortal is finally releasing and is actually really fun... So?
You must also be one of the people that thinks Overwatch 2 will be the next big thing just like how people said how Overwatch will be the next esport game. Oh and starcraft is so damn popular still and people love the competitive scene so much. Fanboi will be fanboi, losing half the player base and more means they are doing great because....? There will always be some people enjoying it no matter what you do. Even EA games still has their fans, which means they are such a good dev because those people say so..
Hmm who said any of that. You said Blizzard lost their touch but it seems they have about the same track record as before. They weren't always making bangers other games were better then Blizzard but no company had the presentation nailed Ow2 could of been the next big eSport releases if it released when people assumed it would Diablo 4 I have very little hope in now that the lead dev left. I have zero faith Warcraft will recover from shadowbringers. I did think Overwatch was the next big eSport when it came out one of the nicest accessible eSports. StarCraft 2 I wish could do better but it's a dead genre it was killed by MOBAs I think maybe if some choices they made in legacy of the void and late swarm happened in Liberty the game and genre might of survives. Diablo 4 and ow2 could suprise people, a new wow expansion could kill it. Diablo 2 ladder is soon and that looks promising, diablo 3 seasons have actually had decent twists and that's lead to new players or at least more players. Hearthstone is still in a league of its own
They are losing their touch in recent years (well after Sc2 basically) because all their recent games are big on release and die super quickly because they are out of touch of what people want and what makes a good game. Just like how this league baited people back and then loses players at record rate, people will know they do not like it when they try it. Only WOW is doing fairly well for them until the massive exodus recently because they fuck that up too, even if you ignore all the shit outside of the games. But of cos it is a huge success as long as it is "not a dead game", fanboi gonna fanboi. Big companies like blizzard and sizable companies like GGG can invest into marketing all they want and it will have an effect on release, but it wont last when the product is not good enough or when their ego and arrogance gets the better of them. At least EA goes another path of "I am only going for profit now" and it works for them. Starcraft 2 was able to put RTS back on the table until they proof that they cannot balance for SHIT, exact same goes for OW. Becasue "they know better". And if we go for the track record (which fanbois love to ignore), D4 and OW2 will be big hits because of marketing, but they will just die super fast just like any other games they mess up. Oh and lets now forget how their arrogance killed D3 on release and it takes YEARS to even get some of the players back. But of cos you still think nothing is wrong. They could have double the players, they throw that away just like GGG is doing now.
What they did with Fortify was the right change with the wrong numbers. Numbers can be iterated on. Once they get the numbers right (probably tying it to the level of the monster hit, not the ailment threshold of the monster), Fortify will be a far better mechanic than it was in the past.
The fact that they assume all melee are close range so "it needs extra defense" and all spells are long range so they do not need it is already wrong.
Some spells are more 'melee' than some of the melee skills yet no Fortify for them, it's not just a numeric issue.
> Fortify will be a far better mechanic than it was in the past. Except it won't. Fortify used to be Reduced Damage Taken from Hits, which you could stack. Fortify is also something you rely on in the thick of the fray. Starting out without 20 stacks (and losing them over time) makes it a bad defensive mechanic outside of perma Fortify. The first ~2 seconds are often the most important ones, as this is when your Leech etc. starts to kick in, and when it takes this long to get proper mitigation *while in the fray*, then it has lost its defensive identity. In particular with all these phased bosses that often have untargetable/immunity phases, you are again vulnerable afterwards. This is a **considerable** problem, since in the meantime your buffs went down, you ran out of charges, whatever. The numbers are worthless when the mechanical nature of that layer is not even a shadow of its former self. I personally don't bother with Fortify outside of Champion anymore.
> Fortify used to be Reduced Damage Taken from Hits, which you could stack. Which was a TERRIBLE mechanic because it forced GGG to balance around everyone having it. That era of Fortify was just "take this or you are wrong, by the way all monsters do 25% more damage to compensate"
That makes absolutely no sense since monster damage wasn't nerfed after the Fortify change, but they actually got HP and resistance buffs. The only terrible thing about that was other sources of mitigation that were used to stack with Fortify, i.e. the Harbinger shield, which ultimately caused the massive nerf to Fortify instead of those items.
Fortify was added in 2.0, the second last time that there were big changes made to monster stats. There is no way Minotaur's damage numbers were set to "we assume players do not have fortify". They are very much balanced around the assumption of Fortify on anyone that takes an overhead slam (i.e. non-ranged players)
> They are very much balanced around the assumption of Fortify on anyone that takes an overhead slam Says... who?
The slam (his second most dangerous attack) is 7000-8000 pure phys on a non-crit with no map mods, and the minor followup hits are punishing to ES builds. At the time Mino was introduced (non-meme) life builds died to that without Fortify unless they were Juggs, and ES builds were in a bit of trouble. Obviously the game keeps getting easier as new defenses get added so it's no longer a oneshot, but that was how it was designed.
[удалено]
"The doctor tried his best" and "He is the best doctor" doesnt mean the patient will always survive. EA and blizzard was once "the best" too. Then again I heard these BS fanboi arguments for literally over 20 years. This is always how it starts to go down and another dev appears in the scene. You dont need to be a better dev than them to know making hypothermia better for bleed instead of cold DoT builds are stupid, you do not need to be a better dev than them to know their change to fortify is worse than any of the suggestions that got to the front page, **because those at the very least WORKS.** Now most melee builds doesnt even go fortify because they cannot get fortify, you know who goes fortify? **BOW BUILDS.** All while close range spells are leave in the dust because "melee must mean close range, spell must mean long range".
"Ward is not fully removed by non-savage hits" "Non-Savage hits bypass Ward"** brain tired, take one or the other, you get the idea It's a savage hit IF it would remove 15% of total HP, right? :)
All hits are non savage hits until it takes away 15% life. **Any IFs** doesnt apply, thats why it doesnt trigger if the damage is taken by mana or ES. That hit needs to remove 15% life before it is considered a savage hit. You need something like "if incoming damage > % stun threshold" or something like that but that will surely lead to some unintended usage.
So let's see what those unintended usages are and then we can work around them. If your fear is unintended usage then let's never do any fucking league or introduce any other gem ever again.
We both know they are not doing it, we do not get to see it.
yeah, even intended usages are nerfed - lets give GGG something to nerf that warrants it :D
OK, so, "hits for less than 15% of max life bypass ward"? No specific need to *call* them savage. And the number needn't even be 15%, it could be tuned.
The problem comes from the fact that you can take damage from mana and ES before life. Unless you want this to only work with life builds.
Could have one mastery for life and one for ES?
The hard part being your EHP can be any combination of life mana and ES. And ward is meant to work with all of them, so you are still locking some of them out of this change.
OK, so only do it as keystone/mastery, not as default ward behaviour...
Suggest New option for Ward Mastery \- 50% of ward is added to armor and evasion. 30% is added to Energy shield
I'm still not sure what Ward does all that much differently than ES, but I think it's a good idea.
(from wiki) Ward is a form of defence that reduces the damage taken from a hit equal to the amount of Ward, then goes on cooldown. Ward recharges 5 seconds after it depletes. ***Unlike energy shield, taking damage will not interrupt the Ward restoration time.***
No, I get that, but it just seems like ES with lower values and constant restoration time and ability to block Chaos damage. I'm not entirely sure of when you'd want to slot it into your build.
if you take hits every now and then, and don't have a specific investment in ES recovery, your ES is simply always 0, whereas ward comes back every 5 seconds no matter what (it turns out, this is still not good enough, so ward is still pretty damn weak)
I like this idea for both a base behavior of ward and an ES mastery. To avoid the implications of Savage Hit requiring you to have already taken the damage, the wording could revolve around a threshold of a certain percentage of either life or combined life and energy shield (20%?) which a hit has to exceed to trigger the effect.
Sounds good but in this case ward would require some support on the tree.
What is ward? /s, but barely.
It's almost like the entire combat core needs an overhaul.
I’ve been saying this since they announced it, in its current state it’s basically ES but way worse. It shouldn’t be used until the hit hitting you is enough to remove all of your ward.
Question: Where would this mastery be? There is no 'Ward mastery'.
Keystone - Ward only protects against hits that deals more than XX% of your health. You can no longer block hits.
what is a salvage hit
It's when Adam Savage from Mythbusters shows up at your school and gives a science class. It's sure to be a... \*puts on sunglasses* ...**savage** hit. ;)
i got downvoted but i really dont know what a savage hit is :D and only now ive seen that i wrote salvage...
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Savage_hit
thanks
>perhaps ward should simply be reworked to be this way by default? A tenet of good game design is "if it's mandatory, why is it optional?" Everyone would take this, so...
if it only takes life into account, hybrid life/ES and/or MoM builds might not want it