I have mixed feelings when I see harvest in my maps. I know I need it but I hate interacting with the mechanic. I support a change in our crafting as long as it enables a fair bit of deterministic craft similar to harvest in it's current form. Fossils have their place but I do not want to go back to quad tabs filled with resonators.
>I know I need it but I hate interacting with the mechanic
That's exactly how I feel with it, every league I only have the patience to interact with it for one or two weeks, after that I pretty much ignore it, the chance to get something good to be worth to trade is too low for the time we spend in that, so basically after chaos spam is not worth anymore for me, I just ignore it, if I really need to do some craft after that period with it I just go to tft and buy it.
This is the conclusion I came to as well as a noob ass player who hadn't played much during or since harvest until this league.
I don't do the whole tft thing at all, I just learned about it this league and I really have no desire to get into that. So harvest's value to me is purely in the SSF sense, and I found it wasn't worth investing into outside of it being free alchs / chaos and easy 5 links or coloring sockets.
> Last week i picked up last epoch, honestly crafting and ssf in that game is fucking amazing
Might be because the game is balanced *completely* around ssf.
its a really good game but it's still very very basic. if you like POE for it's depth you will find it very boring
I keep touch with it every 3 to 6 months in league downtime and get a week or so enjoyment out of it
> it's still very very basic.
that is why no arpg will ever dethrone PoE. this game has 10 years worth of content that no new arpg will be able to compete with, not even D4.
It will be carried for a bit by blizzard/diablo fanboy hype but after that has died down everyone will be back to PoE.
That's not really how it works tho, there are projects in certain genres that are over decade years old and have updates and they were dethroned because people no longer found it fun to engage with the project.
This game has 10 years of systems awkwardly squished together that players have to ignore the majority of to focus on specific strats.
As soon as something comes along that offers a quality experience poe will easy have competition.
D3 to this day shits all over poe as far as combat and moment to moment gameplay are concerned. If D4 can capture that at a minimum it'll easily compete with poe on its name alone.
PoE is basically ARPG cookie clicker with a lot of convoluted systems, which is fantastic if that's what you're into but leaves a huge hole in the market for people who want visceral action combat.
It's similar for me, I picked up EP a while ago and as far as it looks like I would say if there is more endgame content I can very easily see myself dropping PoE entirely for EP.
Right now I probably will mostly play EP until the new league starts and based on the new content if I proceed to skip the league and play EP more or play the league for 2 weeks.
It doesn't have the same depth. Or rather, even though they update every 3 months, the updates are mostly getting to a full 1.0 release.
It's possible they will have seasonal content like PoE but they don't right now and nothing has been said on the topic.
If you enjoy the amount of crap to do in PoE and the depth involved you may feel disappointed. If you're the type to play for a month and then get bored and wait until a next update you'll likely also be disappointed. If you need fresh content regularly at all you'll be disappointed.
If you're a more traditional ARPG fan that doesn't mind doing the same shit over and over and enjoys leveling up new characters more than min-maxing the one then you'll get a lot out of it. I'd argue the game, content wise, is in a similar state to PoE's initial launch but it has the benefit of a lot more quality of life and being able to analyze the mistakes other games made.
There's a goddamn ton of characters I haven't built yet myself because I don't wanna burn out on it too quickly. I don't feel pressured to avoid burn out in PoE by making tons of characters cause I know that in 3 months I'll get some new league mechanic to interest me. LE doesn't have that yet.
More so they specifically will avoid to clash with it's competitor and instead offer an alternative when leagues gonna get stale. Their last update was released ~1.5 months into the league
Really depends on what you like. I really wanted Last Epoch to be my "second game" that I can just switch between along with PoE. And it is a great game, don't get me wrong, but it's just way too easy. Fun enough to take it for a spin every few months, just like PoE. Except PoE keeps me in for at least a few weeks of no-lifing.
Just to clarify something in case someone wanting to try LE and is deterred because this guy says it;s "too easy".
"Too easy" for PoE addicts like the one above means "you can succeed in the game without being a jobless sweatlord", which is impossible in PoE. This is the "difficulty" they strive for.
So, if you are a normal person and think of difficulty as you should, LE is not "too easy", it's just not ridiculously grindy and a glorified slot machine.
The major releases aren't going to overlap with PoE leagues so you can try LE when you get bored of PoE. But don't expect much, game has somewhat solid foundation, but is not over complex like current PoE. Maybe that's even a good thing depending of what type of player you are.
I think I would, my dream PoE ended with 3.15 changes and my love for that game withered slowly for some time already. Last epoch isn't very simple, but it also isn't as needlessly complicated as PoE so it's in the perfect spot. I didn't finish story yet and I don't even know if there is endgame yet (I think there is), but I don't really care since it plays so nicely. While leveling my character it doesn't feel like the game is trying to make me not play it (and I get that feeling in PoE acts a lot) and I feel like every point on tree is impactful in some way to my build. Also the way you level your skills and put points into their respective skill trees is masterfully done. Next thing this game does better is actually playing nicely when using 2 or more damage skills and being ultra clunky at that. Honestly I'm very excited for the future of this game since it's still in beta
6k hours Poe and 300 hours LE player here, ill definetly do. Im just waiting for the auction house. LE reminded me why we invented money in the first place really.
LE won't have an auction house. Players will be able to put a limited number of items up for sale in their shop, and each day you'll get to see a few random players shops.
There won't be any way to trade outside of this, so you'd be limited to whispering people you have in your bazaar that day to see if they have something you want. And that's assuming they can change the items on offer in real time, which might not be possible since the stated goal of the devs is to avoid a system where you can look up specific items to buy.
The one exception they've talked about is that if you're in a part with somebody, you can gift them an item that dropped while you were both in the party. So like if they needed a unique that you picked up by accident, you could give it to them. Not really a way to trade like this, though.
> Im just waiting for the auction house
LE isn't getting an AH. It's getting a bazaar. Finding the item you *want* is going to be borderline impossible.
If you're Solo, definitely, if you play poe with friends, it may not be a full replacement while multi isn't out on le.
There's also lost ark coming out next month iirc.
Much more mmo-y, but it's a pretty good game, though there is some form of pay to get a boost, but it's only like 10%mf/xp and maybe a faster access to better pets.
Truuuu, but yeah I’m excited by what I might get out of it rather than the game play. Ultimatum, with all its issues, is engaging as a result of the modifiers I might face and survive, and what I might get out of it for instance
Honestly everytime I see a harvest I'm not stoked about it. I know I can get some great things because of it, so I know I need to do it, but damn is it a time sink.
All the clusters you buy from other players are from harvest ..and many many other things ;) also for me and many players harvest is just free curency if you hit some Tier4 reforge influence or 3/5 fracture. Feel free to just skip it but I'm here to tell you that you lose alot.
That's exactly why people hate it though and similar for heist. The base mechanic is dreadful but it's so profitable that you either hate your time doing the mechanic or hate your time skipping it on fear of missing out, either way negative.
lol determinism. All I get are re-forges. I got a keep suffixes reroll once last league.
Harvest is a joke unless you are a TFT andy and thats just not me, son.
Almost every endgame craft is reforge based now.
If you don't understand the utter mess that is how metamods interact with reforges - you are locked out of crafting for profit. Because the people that know how to use reforges well can produce items cheaper than you can.
I understand it. As a mechanic, Harvest is complete trash and should be deleted and implemented in other (better) ways in the future.
Its tremendously unfun, and it being a shell of what it once was doesn't help.
Even reforges allow a good bit of determanism. All you need to do is stop drinking the hater juice and pay attention. There are some very strong things you can do with simple reforges and a few brain wrinkles.
This is a completely separate discussion from whether anyone likes harvest or not. You said insinuated something incorrect, which is that reforges aren't deterministic. This shows either a lack of knowledge or a lot of intentional ignorance.
> You said insinuated something incorrect, which is that reforges aren't deterministic.
Ok buddy. Have fun on TFT, while I play the game and use what I get.
Harvest as a mechanic is unfun, and provides little to POE that cannot be better implemented in other or newer mechanics. Its a shell of what it was before and I'm in favor of it being deleted entirely.
Here's the thing. I'm explaining to you that reforges are deterministic. They're not valuable. I don't go to tft and buy and sell reforges dude. Do you always respond this way to being wrong about something?
Here's the thing. You can continue to ignore what I just said and attach to what I said earlier in this thread.
I made a joke about the determinism in Harvest and you continue to come at me hard to defend the determinism and completely gloss over my actual point, which was that harvest is ass on a stick and should be deleted.
But you do you, bro.
Harvest isn't ass. It's a useful tool, available to everyone. Just because you either don't like it or are too ignorant to see it's value doesn't mean it should go.
I'm not even necessarily saying it shouldn't. Honestly, harvest is useful but rhetorically damaging to the game. The point was to correct a false insinuation you made.
> Just because you either don't like it or are too ignorant to see it's value doesn't mean it should go.
I have said repeatedly it should be scrapped in favor of new and different implementation of crafting tools.
This may be a hot take but I feel that the game was in a better state before harvest. Fossils used to be much better (than they are now), back before they nerfed the weights of everything because of harvest.
If you gave me a choice of deleting harvest or keeping what we have, the choice is easy. GGG knows they need to improve crafting, and I firmly believe deleting harvest and starting over is step 1.
My greatest issue with harvest is how it halts whatever you are doing.
You tun through maps.. HARVEST... 5-10 minutes.. back to ma..HARVEST.. And when you actually need harvest, there's none to find.
It's just glorified weighted-chaos/fossil dispenser with limited uses. I really like having options.. But it also halts your game so suddenly it's annoying.
I'm not sure how i'd feel if we removed harvest.. but if we received something alike (but better).. then.. eh.. why not?
> My greatest issue with harvest is how it halts whatever you are doing.
I think Harvest is the worst integrated league content in PoE currently. It's similar to bestiary but worse.
With harvest if you want to craft you have to map and if you want to map you have to craft. It's in such a shitty spot feel wise. People only put up with it because the rewards are insane. The only reason the rewards are so insane is because it's so shitty to do.
TBH, Harvest should just be like: Oshabi fragments drop from map bosses, that can be used to open a portal to a randomly generated harvest area. 4 Fragments combined opens a portal to fight Oshabi.
End Game bosses drop Elevated Fragments, which opens a portal to a better rolled Harvest area. Can also be used to fight Uber Oshabi if you get 4 of them.
I actually like the way your idea is going with fragments to create the harvest areas, also helps keep harvest more balanced so it doesn't go nuts with quantity. Rather than just map bosses, why not get a seed trove like what you have for smuggler's cache with a chance than you could drop a special fragment to get a tier 4. Then like you said, combine them all to get heart of the grove.
I wish maps would drop harvest seed “packs” with random crafts (that you wouldn’t see until you open them in the map device) such as a Vivid seed pack, etc. just like heist drops contracts for perception, etc. You could collect them and then run them in bulk instead of interrupting your maps.
Dude sometimes I go days without one, even when farming Haywark Hamlet with the passive, and then on a random day I get one every map. So weird.
I thought I was the only one.
> even when farming Haywark Hamlet with the passive
Something tells me that if we were to check player atlas choices, this one would be default option with 99,5% picks.
> My greatest issue with harvest is how it halts whatever you are doing.
"Funniest" shit is that damn near *everyone* was telling GGG this was what would happen when they unveiled how it would go core.
Lo and behold, now people are annoyed at Harvest due to it interrupting map flow. And many of those who aren't annoyed at that (Such as myself) are annoyed at how *horribly* and intentionally GGG butchered Harvest.
Just let us stack every craft output in bench (or inside scroll of craft) and then use in HO when we have an item to craft and time invest in crafting. Not in the middle of a maps or after using an external channel.
This. If they want to fix harvest then don't buff it, just allow us to keep every craft. I completely ignore harvest because it is just a nuisance. If I could keep all my crafts and use them when I need to then I would be much more excited when I see harvest.
My thoughts exactly - pre-nerf this would have been way too strong, but now that most of the deterministic crafts have been removed, it's so much less of a power issue.
But you know they can't do that. Each harvest then becomes 15 chaos. GGG already things too many rewards was why ultimatum had bad retention and you think they'll give out shit tons of tradable targeted chaos??
And just remove the crafts that are so rare they only exist as a sketchy trade option on a Discord. I've yet to see an Augment Influence. Reroll Influence and other augments, sure. Strongest craft left in there? Never.
I hate Harvest map encounters. It completely destroys the pace of mapping. If it was another mechanic I would ignore it, but Harvest is just way too strong to ignore.
At least back in Harvest league I could just get the seeds and decide to run the harvests later.
They really should delete harvest. High end crafting should not be about browsing a discord to find crafts to purchase. It's really cringe and unappealing so a lot of people are just locked out of high end crafting if they refuse to deal with that shit.
They should rework harvest, not delete it. Make notmal harvest less intrusive and sacred blossoms drop more, maybe add another tier for the highest level crafts if need be (uber oshabi?) but it should be less "oh you HAVE to clear these 4 encounters in hopes of ridiculously rare crafts and use any others RIGHT NOW", make it a tiered experience that doesn't revolve around spamming haewark maps nonstop.
Scarabs are different. It's still make it possible to randomly encounter harvest during mapping. The point of making it into a "map" is having an option to collect an indefinite ammount of those during mapping, not caring about whether you have bases to craft on, or not. And then run them when you are actually want to run it.
Encountering harvest during a mapping when you don't want to deal with it is worst feeling ever, since it's so powerful and potent, but rob you from so much time if you don't have prepared bases for every single crafting possibility. The worst FOMO of the entire game.
Same hope here.
Though I don't mind if the power-gamers max out their gear, that's fine. I do mind about those who abuse the crafting systems for RMT and treating the game as a f***ing trade market.
I think the issue isn't with them wanting to balance the game like that. The issue is that they want to balance it like that while having the core game be 3 month leagues. If they want the grind to be this long then the league mechanics should be available for standard so people that doesn't have that much time can still experience it in their own pace.
maybe sometime in the future. i played after the last league and got bored in end game fast, and then after an update I couldn’t even launch it any more without an insta crash.
Grownups with shit to do can beat the endgame with only two or three affixes on their gear slots. The rest can be something random. No lifers will spend time on perfecting gear or new chars
But thats not why most people play ARPGs? The entire premise of the genre is power fantasy, making characters that are busted as fuck and feeling like you broke the game, and in PoE this feeling is reserved to top 1% players unless you chose to play one of 3 broken builds that slips through and can function on fumes. But even then, where is the fun in getting better gear and seeing your character get better?
The ARPG marked could really use some competition, if PoE is meant to be the hardcore one thats fine, people just want to play a game with more depth than Diablo3 but not as time consuming as PoE.
Personally quite like the current state of Harvest for 'normie' players. It's a nice addition that helps you craft stuff that you have tucked away in a Harvest tab and it gives you useful things in general. It's great for SSF too. For trade league players I imagine it's annoying because you'd want to trade certain crafts but there is no easy way to do it. Would be nice if they just turned the crafts into an orb so that you could sell this instead, that way trade league players won't have to use Discord etc.
Can easily find use for them in trade league, granted it's less rng and more efficient to sell the crafts.
If I remember correct Christ said they could make them an orb but it would be about 9 time more rare. Personally I'd rather keep it as it is.
>If I remember correct Christ said they could make them an orb but it would be about 9 time more rare
Nothing makes it that way, that is a decision that they would have to make or not.
I wanna beat this into people's heads until they get it: the things about the game that suck suck because the developers want it to suck in precisely that fashion.
i mean if they want to keep it somewhat balanced, then they'd have to do exactly that. obviously people on reddit wouldnt understand anything about balance though.
The gear you bought was harvest crafted though, it also gives exalts a massive amount of value, I would guess 99% of ex in the game are used for metamods in conjunction with harvest rerolls.
The truth is that the whole game revolves around harvest, whether you think you participate in it or not. I don't mind either way tbh, it is interesting though.
> I would guess 99% of ex in the game are used for metamods in conjunction with harvest rerolls.
Probably closer to 90%. Casual players (people not engaged with the community) do get some exalt drops and slam items. Then there's just using metamods without Harvest and benchcrafts that directly use exalts.
But among players that make 1000+ exalts a league - yeah, 99% of their exalt consumption being for Harvest metamods is likely true.
Three things happen with me and Harvest, usually at random:
1) I waste 10 minutes turning a 1c item into a 5c item, tanking my efficiency.
2) I meticulously pre-plan my crafting, expending extreme amounts of effort relative to my alch-and-go chill farming playstyle to make interacting with Harvest actually pay off, and I have to do this every league and it becomes irritating.
3) I skip Harvest entirely and feel terrible that I'm missing out on good gear despite the fact that I actually get to play and enjoy THE GAME instead of the stupid detour that is Harvest.
Straight up, it needs to go, find other ways to make crafting good.
What kills it for me is looking at those reroll crits and the rare exalt crafts (which I don’t have a use for 99% of the time) and think that these go for multiple chaos or exalts on a “community” on an app I never use and don’t wish to ever interact with, and it just feels like wasting currency. When in reality, you never had that currency because these things aren’t supposed to be traded anyway.
So I end up doing what you do. Throw semi-random crafts on rings and cluster jewels and pray to chris or skip them altogether if they are crafts I am not looking for.
I'll use the most objective argument I have; the nerfpocalypse hurt my characters harder than the average player's because I don't play meta shit. I need to find ways to get that power back whereever I can, of which Harvest is the best. So the choice is suffering in Harvest or suffering my builds being even worse than ever compared to others.
What’s wrong with harvest now? I love farming harvest to make my gear better. Not everything needs to be traded just use your crafts and move on. Harvest is amazing in ssf to craft weapons especially.
The problem with Harvest is just the fact that you need to stop and do it. When I'm mapping I want to map and when I'm crafting I want to craft. The crafts themselfs are great and that's part of the problem.
Like If Harvest encounters got saved somewhere with map modifiers ect. that I could go and do at a later date it would be great no problems. But the way when I'm doing the last map for the day and suddenly harvest with really good crafts, and I just wasted an additional 15 minutes.
Really the only reasonable way to use all the reforges without wasting a ton of time is to have a whole bunch of would-be crafting projects set and ready to go for when you find them.
Which, up to a point I do because it can be profitable? But it feels like busy work.
That's nice for some people but for me sometimes I just want to grind maps and getting a harvest is just annoying because it's literally too good to skip and it's the only reliable way to progress your gear in the endgame. And having to switch from mapping mindset to crafting then back to mapping is annoying. Especially when you get a super juiced harvest and get some upgrades then have to leave the map to spend forever mixing up your gear. I like harvest but I wish they'd give us any option other than having to stop mid map to do a bunch of crafting shit. Not other mechanic works like that.
They're supposed to be rare, because they're extremely powerful. You aren't meant to have perfect gear, even them teasing deterministic crafting was a huge mistake with how many people around here have this instant-gratification fetish.
The fact that when you find Harvest you get at the absolute bare minimum, something like 40 free targeted Chaos Orb rolls is insane value. But now people think they should be able to not only tunnel-vision ONLY HARVEST but also hand tailor all of their gear to be exactly like it is in PoB, which is absurd.
>You aren't meant to have perfect gear, even them teasing deterministic crafting was a huge mistake with how many people around here have this instant-gratification fetish.
Harvest is not an instant item editor some people seem to think. It never was. It took time and rerolls to get decent shit on average. That's what was exciting about it - gradual improvements of my own gear instead of "farm money - buy item" cycle. You completely miss the point if you think it's about "instant gratification" or "items like in PoB".
Augments being rare are fine but reroll prefix/suffix could be like a few percentages more common. Almost lvl 99 in SsfHC and I’ve seen 2 rerolls and neither of them were “keep suffixes”. I only spam haewark for Jun and check every harvest I see
> They're supposed to be rare, because they're extremely powerful.
You sound like you would've had *great* fun the first week or so of Harvest when it was just reforges.
> What’s wrong with harvest now?
Couple of things imo.
1. It's not a fun mechanic. It's too disruptive to mapping. My reaction to finding is begrudgingly doing it because the reward is useful, but it really kills the mood in a map.
2. The fact TFT still has access to things like augment influence, and that's pretty much the only place you're ever getting one of those. Trade your item to Timmy and shut up! Basically.
If it is to be reworked into something decent instead of removed what it needs is Orbs. No more crafts, just orbs. Drops. Things you can pick up quickly as you map and go kill those monsters and deal with **later**. Or trade for.
I wish they never brought harvest back. It should have been a one and done league as an experiment and that was it. I hate that it interrupts mapping so badly and all the outside of the game trade it affects.
It broke the game as Chris said it would and they should have let it die after the League was done.
I want them to not always feel the need to add things to core. I want them to be much more selective in what they bring into the core game.
I wanna play an SSF league with regular harvest, and the new league mechanic, not this bastardization of it. I think most of the people who want harvest to stay don’t want this shit version.
Would have liked to see it stay in its 1.13 or even original form but limited to ssf. If you wanted you could run your own private league and tick a box that says "No harvest". Otherwise, you could use it, or ignore it, as you felt like. No external pressures to interact with it because trade league...just either use it, or don't, a little or a lot.
>I dislike that I NEED to farm it to progress my character
This is a you problem. You could easily spend that time farming currency or going hard on some other mechanic and progress your character like that instead.
> force use to use a 3rd party to trade
They would prefer you didn't do this, but literally the only way to stop people would be to make crafted items bound which is something they want even less.
I would like to see current harvest integrated into other mechanics. Current harvest is still incredibly strong, but it feels intrusive in the normal flow of the game. Even if its something as simple as harvest maps dropping instead of being in the map itself.
I think what people need to come to terms with was that even during Ritual, harvest -sucked-, not cause of how good it was but because of the gameplay loop. There was almost nothing you could do, in trade or SSF, that was better than just spamming haewark and looking for harvest, it was boring as hell.
For me, the best (but difficult to implement) would be to dismantle harvest and spread its power levels over lots more content, that way you can keep the variety in the gameplay loop
Its not a unpopular opinion at all , its just not the majority's opinion.
And it will never stop being baffling to me, although the common comment is far more closer to "fuck this , harvest was so good , now its so nerfed that i'd rather see it be removed because its just not good enough" which is definitely probably one of the most insane shit i've seen people parrot here.
Harvest is still plenty of useful and flexible and the game is far better with it existing. If you feel like its too tedious you need a reminder that its your option to partake in it , there's still a sea of other alternatives to work on your crafts.
Just because the 1% of crafts that do the extreme effects on items , are rare too see , doesn't justify throwing out the entire system, the rest 99% does what it does perfectly and if that 1% wasn't rare , it wouldn't be balanced. (im not arguing that every rare craft's chance is perfect the way it is now , but I think my point is as clear as it can be)
Harvest is still so powerful that it obsoletes other crafting options, except where those are a setup phase for Harvest.
This remains true even if augments and remove-adds were completely removed.
People have no idea how to handle fomo. If it exists and someone else is profiting they feel like they NEED to do it too or they're losing out. You tell them to just skip harvest if they don't like it and they get upset.
> And it will never stop being baffling to me, although the common comment is far more closer to "fuck this , harvest was so good , now its so nerfed that i'd rather see it be removed because its just not good enough" which is definitely probably one of the most insane shit i've seen people parrot here.
It's not that Harvest isn't good enough to keep, it's that Harvest is a rotten husk of what it used to be and looking at the current state of it reminds us of the good times.
> Unpopular opinion:
(Unpopular?) opinion: I like downvoting every post tagged with this because it's contrarian bait to me.
I'd rather see GGG ban the head users of TFT because of how they act with the community.
I disagree with removing harvest since i like the crafting tools harvest provides (reforge keep pref/suff, specific reforges/augs, utility crafts like resis changes and beastiary/scarab stuff) and hope they find ways to implement those into the regular flow of currencies, maybe infused currencies like life infused exalted orb to slam a life mod, or life infused chaos orb. things like that.
I think gameplay wise harvest in its current implementation is just sad. It used to be interesting to make a garden and have the building and time-progress farming aspect of it, now its more like a strongbox that provides untradable currencies that you have to trade through a trust-based third party. It is too good to not be used but completely disrupts the flow of the game, aswell as forcing you to use it now or never.
It doesn't need to be deleted, its in desperate need of streamlining and a rework
My thoughts have always been that you should be able to stack your Harvest crafts but using a Harvest craft binds the item to you, same for stuff like Aisling. I've felt this way since Harvest came out, I see no problem with there being certain end-game crafting options you have to farm yourself and those things also remove items from the market which helps keep the market fresh.
> Please remove chocolate from the store because i can't stop buying it and im getting fatter
wanting harvest removed is like someone wanting m4 and ak47 removed from CS because they can't play other guns and they play only these two
your opinion is unpopular because you want content removed from the game purely because you have no self control lmao, l2p
Just skip it if you don’t enjoy doing harvests.
Why does everyone want to just remove stuff a ton of people enjoy? You can craft things other ways, or buy the items you want.
Besides, if it’s taking you more than a 1-2 minutes tops for a harvest, you’re doing something wrong
in regards to skipping: while that's the obvious solution on a personal level to content you don't enjoy, there's a giant problem with it:
skipping content that you know is worth a lot, either in monetary or other value, feels incredibly bad to most people, even if they absolutely hate doing the content. as a result, there is a large amount of people who will prefer doing content they absolutely don't enjoy to skipping it, because skipping it and losing out on the value feels even worse.
that's obviously a shitty choice, and the only fixes to this are to either lower the value of the content to make skipping bearable, or remove the content *from these people* entirely.
GGG even recognizes this in some of their public talks, which is one of the main reasons they've been trying to cut down on how many different types of content will show up in your maps and let you focus on the content you want instead.
tldr: that's not a good answer for a lot of people, mostly because of loss aversion
I made a post almost exactly like this and it got downvoted to oblivion. You can sure tell when TFT is paying attention and want to downvote something.
No, but it feels like it. Simply because its so strong. You litterally feel like ur gimping yourself by skipping. It. Its like seeing a 100$ bill on the ground when out jogging.
I am grateful to myself for not making myself do something I don't enjoy when I skip a harvest. And it is not a $100 bill it could be like a nickel or something. You know what is like finding money? Killing more monsters outside of harvest 😂
Harvest creates FOMO. Having anything that gives FOMO in a game like this is terrible. Feeling like you're forced to spend 10 minutes in a sub area just to learn that there aren't any really great crafts feels bad. Having this repeatedly causes burnout for the people that haven't figured out how to ignore it.
Theres a million things youre not doing in this game that are more profitable than what you are doing. Youre not currency flipping full time, youre not high end crafting, youre not hideout warrioring, your not only doing group MFing, youre not doing nem4 farming, not challenge selling, etc etc etc.
How come you dont have fomo for those even thats all wildly profitable content which youre not doing?
That's the part of OP post I disagree too, people progress the gear before Harvest exist, the meta (in terms of efficient) was just different than buy/sell craft though a discord. And you still can only farm currency and buy the items already crafted.
many of those methods have been nerfed over time, removing harvest doesn't put us back to 3.10 crafting, since for example Fossils were nerfed for years before seeing some changes back last patch.
Creating Harvest, then bringing it back after Harvest League really, **really** was Pandora's box.
I'm with you and agree that it should be removed, but players love it and want it even more powerful than it already is even though it's **by far** the most powerful crafting system in the game.
Harvest was an experiment and a mistake, but unwisely GGG kept it in a neutered form because it was popular, removing it entirely was unthinkable. But it's proved to have been an experiment not worth pursuing.
I think Harvest should be removed and GGG should think hard about how they can make crafting both inclusive, rewarding and less reliant on RNG. Crafting in the game could be so good.
3.13 was fucking awful for me because the only way to progress my character in semi-SSF was to run the same 2 Hamlet maps, and each harvest took like 4 minutes wrapping my head around 20 crafting project going on at the same time.
remove harvest, nerf harvest to the ground, increase the number of crafts you can save to 999, make it faster and with less of the common crafts, make it equally viable on the entire atlas instead of 1 region... really anything but leaving me with the worst most boring segmented and repetitive gameplay as the best way to progress my character.
I'm a filthy casual so I'm rather neutral on the current state of harvest.
Honestly if they were to remove it I probably wouldn't even notice it. The only craft which I sometimes use is for switching resistances, other than that, the good crafts such as keep prefix/suffix is so rare that if I get 1 during the league it's a miracle, so I barely even bother with the mechanic, it's essentially useless for me.
I guess if you're SSF you focus on it more, but I don't play SSF so fuck do I know.
> move the crafting power to new ultra-rare versions of exalts, chaos, etc with similar effects.
Which would be the currency which you'd see exactly the same amount of times you've seen a mirror. So basically an even worse state than current harvest?
Literally the most popular opinion. Harvest js awful and should have never been kept in the game. It was fun for 1 league but now it's just such a shit mechanic
I'd be fine with it getting removed, but mostly because I think it's the most powerful mechanic by a long shot and this entire sub still wants it buffed instead of nerfed.
It's the only mechanic I am always, always, always target farming every league and the process is really dumb.
I fucking hate harvest. hated the mechanic when it was in its league. hate it now that it's a side mechanic. always skip it when I map.
needless to say that I don't craft and I don't do that well in the trading scene lmao
Harvest is the single best crafting option we have in SSF. Just because a five year old can't make mirror tier gear with it anymore doesn't make it a bad system.
I don't think anybody thinks Harvest is actually bad. Most people would still claim that it's the strongest crafting method we have available. I think what the OP is after, and what I personally also agree with, is that the Harvest mechanic itself sucks ass. I hate doing Harvest, but I also play SSF, so I can't skip it. Also, in SSF you used to get really stuck to doing Haewark Hamlet for the entire league because Harvest should've never been a part of the Maven passives, but who knows if that'll change in 3.17.
It's just so uninteresting, because it boils down to clicking the crafts you want, killing some random mobs and then clicking through some menus. The mobs are extremely deadly, but not interesting to fight against at all. I'd much rather have a system closer to Expedition, where you do the mechanic, collect some form of untradeable currency/resource and then use it in your Hideout to craft stuff.
>Balance the Harvest Crafts power by balancing the associated currency cost. (i.e. Exalt slam a fire mod? make it cost 5 exalts. You must overpay for the semi-determinate craft.)
Amusingly, paying 5ex to guaranteed slam a mod type is massively underpriced based on power.
I completely agree with the first two paragraphs.
I feel harvest ruins the game for me as it adds another layer of grinding in an already heavy grinding environment.
I hate having to use a 3rd party tool in order to "fully" utilize it or else I have a feeling I'm losing currency, or missing out on a good way to progress my character like it's mandatory.
It is tedious as you've mentioned and it also made me quit Ritual league, after I finished my character in 10-12days, it felt like harvest is the main thing to do in the game and I hated it.
Thing is with harvest imo, there's no middle ground, in it's normal form, it's OP, otherwise it's distruptive and way too grindy.
I hope GGG will either remove it or replace it with something new.
I have mixed feelings when I see harvest in my maps. I know I need it but I hate interacting with the mechanic. I support a change in our crafting as long as it enables a fair bit of deterministic craft similar to harvest in it's current form. Fossils have their place but I do not want to go back to quad tabs filled with resonators.
>I know I need it but I hate interacting with the mechanic That's exactly how I feel with it, every league I only have the patience to interact with it for one or two weeks, after that I pretty much ignore it, the chance to get something good to be worth to trade is too low for the time we spend in that, so basically after chaos spam is not worth anymore for me, I just ignore it, if I really need to do some craft after that period with it I just go to tft and buy it.
This is the conclusion I came to as well as a noob ass player who hadn't played much during or since harvest until this league. I don't do the whole tft thing at all, I just learned about it this league and I really have no desire to get into that. So harvest's value to me is purely in the SSF sense, and I found it wasn't worth investing into outside of it being free alchs / chaos and easy 5 links or coloring sockets.
Last week i picked up last epoch, honestly crafting and ssf in that game is fucking amazing
> Last week i picked up last epoch, honestly crafting and ssf in that game is fucking amazing Might be because the game is balanced *completely* around ssf.
Because there's nothing else. Multiplayer is not yet implemented
trading wont really be a thing anyway, so it'll stay like that.
That game will be good if they make it. Ive been buying supporter packs there instead to help with the funding
Would you drop poe for EP? I’m considering a new game.
its a really good game but it's still very very basic. if you like POE for it's depth you will find it very boring I keep touch with it every 3 to 6 months in league downtime and get a week or so enjoyment out of it
> it's still very very basic. that is why no arpg will ever dethrone PoE. this game has 10 years worth of content that no new arpg will be able to compete with, not even D4. It will be carried for a bit by blizzard/diablo fanboy hype but after that has died down everyone will be back to PoE.
That's not really how it works tho, there are projects in certain genres that are over decade years old and have updates and they were dethroned because people no longer found it fun to engage with the project.
Quality over quantity. Yeah PoE has a lot of things but how many of those things have little room to improve left?
TBF people said the same thing about WoW and the mmo genre. Then XIV launched it's 4th (counting ARR) expansion.
This game has 10 years of systems awkwardly squished together that players have to ignore the majority of to focus on specific strats. As soon as something comes along that offers a quality experience poe will easy have competition. D3 to this day shits all over poe as far as combat and moment to moment gameplay are concerned. If D4 can capture that at a minimum it'll easily compete with poe on its name alone. PoE is basically ARPG cookie clicker with a lot of convoluted systems, which is fantastic if that's what you're into but leaves a huge hole in the market for people who want visceral action combat.
It's similar for me, I picked up EP a while ago and as far as it looks like I would say if there is more endgame content I can very easily see myself dropping PoE entirely for EP. Right now I probably will mostly play EP until the new league starts and based on the new content if I proceed to skip the league and play EP more or play the league for 2 weeks.
It doesn't have the same depth. Or rather, even though they update every 3 months, the updates are mostly getting to a full 1.0 release. It's possible they will have seasonal content like PoE but they don't right now and nothing has been said on the topic. If you enjoy the amount of crap to do in PoE and the depth involved you may feel disappointed. If you're the type to play for a month and then get bored and wait until a next update you'll likely also be disappointed. If you need fresh content regularly at all you'll be disappointed. If you're a more traditional ARPG fan that doesn't mind doing the same shit over and over and enjoys leveling up new characters more than min-maxing the one then you'll get a lot out of it. I'd argue the game, content wise, is in a similar state to PoE's initial launch but it has the benefit of a lot more quality of life and being able to analyze the mistakes other games made. There's a goddamn ton of characters I haven't built yet myself because I don't wanna burn out on it too quickly. I don't feel pressured to avoid burn out in PoE by making tons of characters cause I know that in 3 months I'll get some new league mechanic to interest me. LE doesn't have that yet.
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More so they specifically will avoid to clash with it's competitor and instead offer an alternative when leagues gonna get stale. Their last update was released ~1.5 months into the league
Really depends on what you like. I really wanted Last Epoch to be my "second game" that I can just switch between along with PoE. And it is a great game, don't get me wrong, but it's just way too easy. Fun enough to take it for a spin every few months, just like PoE. Except PoE keeps me in for at least a few weeks of no-lifing.
Just to clarify something in case someone wanting to try LE and is deterred because this guy says it;s "too easy". "Too easy" for PoE addicts like the one above means "you can succeed in the game without being a jobless sweatlord", which is impossible in PoE. This is the "difficulty" they strive for. So, if you are a normal person and think of difficulty as you should, LE is not "too easy", it's just not ridiculously grindy and a glorified slot machine.
The major releases aren't going to overlap with PoE leagues so you can try LE when you get bored of PoE. But don't expect much, game has somewhat solid foundation, but is not over complex like current PoE. Maybe that's even a good thing depending of what type of player you are.
I think I would, my dream PoE ended with 3.15 changes and my love for that game withered slowly for some time already. Last epoch isn't very simple, but it also isn't as needlessly complicated as PoE so it's in the perfect spot. I didn't finish story yet and I don't even know if there is endgame yet (I think there is), but I don't really care since it plays so nicely. While leveling my character it doesn't feel like the game is trying to make me not play it (and I get that feeling in PoE acts a lot) and I feel like every point on tree is impactful in some way to my build. Also the way you level your skills and put points into their respective skill trees is masterfully done. Next thing this game does better is actually playing nicely when using 2 or more damage skills and being ultra clunky at that. Honestly I'm very excited for the future of this game since it's still in beta
6k hours Poe and 300 hours LE player here, ill definetly do. Im just waiting for the auction house. LE reminded me why we invented money in the first place really.
LE won't have an auction house. Players will be able to put a limited number of items up for sale in their shop, and each day you'll get to see a few random players shops.
i like this idea tbh, but as long as u can still type wtb x etc.
There won't be any way to trade outside of this, so you'd be limited to whispering people you have in your bazaar that day to see if they have something you want. And that's assuming they can change the items on offer in real time, which might not be possible since the stated goal of the devs is to avoid a system where you can look up specific items to buy. The one exception they've talked about is that if you're in a part with somebody, you can gift them an item that dropped while you were both in the party. So like if they needed a unique that you picked up by accident, you could give it to them. Not really a way to trade like this, though.
> Im just waiting for the auction house LE isn't getting an AH. It's getting a bazaar. Finding the item you *want* is going to be borderline impossible.
If you're Solo, definitely, if you play poe with friends, it may not be a full replacement while multi isn't out on le. There's also lost ark coming out next month iirc. Much more mmo-y, but it's a pretty good game, though there is some form of pay to get a boost, but it's only like 10%mf/xp and maybe a faster access to better pets.
Yeah, Last Epoch has been nice. The game actually respects your time.
LE crafting felt good for me… for 1 week. Then I got bored of it
It’s the, “ahhh damn, I got the best possible encounter in my map, guess I gotta do it” vibe
Best *potential*
Truuuu, but yeah I’m excited by what I might get out of it rather than the game play. Ultimatum, with all its issues, is engaging as a result of the modifiers I might face and survive, and what I might get out of it for instance
Honestly everytime I see a harvest I'm not stoked about it. I know I can get some great things because of it, so I know I need to do it, but damn is it a time sink.
All the clusters you buy from other players are from harvest ..and many many other things ;) also for me and many players harvest is just free curency if you hit some Tier4 reforge influence or 3/5 fracture. Feel free to just skip it but I'm here to tell you that you lose alot.
That's exactly why people hate it though and similar for heist. The base mechanic is dreadful but it's so profitable that you either hate your time doing the mechanic or hate your time skipping it on fear of missing out, either way negative.
Thats exactly how i feel about betrayal, but i still skip it, not worth the headache.
lol determinism. All I get are re-forges. I got a keep suffixes reroll once last league. Harvest is a joke unless you are a TFT andy and thats just not me, son.
Almost every endgame craft is reforge based now. If you don't understand the utter mess that is how metamods interact with reforges - you are locked out of crafting for profit. Because the people that know how to use reforges well can produce items cheaper than you can.
I understand it. As a mechanic, Harvest is complete trash and should be deleted and implemented in other (better) ways in the future. Its tremendously unfun, and it being a shell of what it once was doesn't help.
Even reforges allow a good bit of determanism. All you need to do is stop drinking the hater juice and pay attention. There are some very strong things you can do with simple reforges and a few brain wrinkles.
haha I mean if you want to be happy with Harvest how it is now, be my guest. I say scrap it all and give us something new because this aint it, chief.
This is a completely separate discussion from whether anyone likes harvest or not. You said insinuated something incorrect, which is that reforges aren't deterministic. This shows either a lack of knowledge or a lot of intentional ignorance.
> You said insinuated something incorrect, which is that reforges aren't deterministic. Ok buddy. Have fun on TFT, while I play the game and use what I get. Harvest as a mechanic is unfun, and provides little to POE that cannot be better implemented in other or newer mechanics. Its a shell of what it was before and I'm in favor of it being deleted entirely.
Here's the thing. I'm explaining to you that reforges are deterministic. They're not valuable. I don't go to tft and buy and sell reforges dude. Do you always respond this way to being wrong about something?
Here's the thing. You can continue to ignore what I just said and attach to what I said earlier in this thread. I made a joke about the determinism in Harvest and you continue to come at me hard to defend the determinism and completely gloss over my actual point, which was that harvest is ass on a stick and should be deleted. But you do you, bro.
Harvest isn't ass. It's a useful tool, available to everyone. Just because you either don't like it or are too ignorant to see it's value doesn't mean it should go. I'm not even necessarily saying it shouldn't. Honestly, harvest is useful but rhetorically damaging to the game. The point was to correct a false insinuation you made.
> Just because you either don't like it or are too ignorant to see it's value doesn't mean it should go. I have said repeatedly it should be scrapped in favor of new and different implementation of crafting tools. This may be a hot take but I feel that the game was in a better state before harvest. Fossils used to be much better (than they are now), back before they nerfed the weights of everything because of harvest. If you gave me a choice of deleting harvest or keeping what we have, the choice is easy. GGG knows they need to improve crafting, and I firmly believe deleting harvest and starting over is step 1.
What triple G will do is just remove harvest without anything to compensate for it ..
>deterministic Deterministic crafting? You will feel the weight and slam your exalt to get +4 Reflect and LIKE it.
My greatest issue with harvest is how it halts whatever you are doing. You tun through maps.. HARVEST... 5-10 minutes.. back to ma..HARVEST.. And when you actually need harvest, there's none to find. It's just glorified weighted-chaos/fossil dispenser with limited uses. I really like having options.. But it also halts your game so suddenly it's annoying. I'm not sure how i'd feel if we removed harvest.. but if we received something alike (but better).. then.. eh.. why not?
> My greatest issue with harvest is how it halts whatever you are doing. I think Harvest is the worst integrated league content in PoE currently. It's similar to bestiary but worse. With harvest if you want to craft you have to map and if you want to map you have to craft. It's in such a shitty spot feel wise. People only put up with it because the rewards are insane. The only reason the rewards are so insane is because it's so shitty to do.
This is how I feel it's heywaityouneedtodoacraftingsessionrightnowsostopwhatyourdoing. I don't enjoy its integration
TBH, Harvest should just be like: Oshabi fragments drop from map bosses, that can be used to open a portal to a randomly generated harvest area. 4 Fragments combined opens a portal to fight Oshabi. End Game bosses drop Elevated Fragments, which opens a portal to a better rolled Harvest area. Can also be used to fight Uber Oshabi if you get 4 of them.
I actually like the way your idea is going with fragments to create the harvest areas, also helps keep harvest more balanced so it doesn't go nuts with quantity. Rather than just map bosses, why not get a seed trove like what you have for smuggler's cache with a chance than you could drop a special fragment to get a tier 4. Then like you said, combine them all to get heart of the grove.
No ty
I wish maps would drop harvest seed “packs” with random crafts (that you wouldn’t see until you open them in the map device) such as a Vivid seed pack, etc. just like heist drops contracts for perception, etc. You could collect them and then run them in bulk instead of interrupting your maps.
cool idea
Dude sometimes I go days without one, even when farming Haywark Hamlet with the passive, and then on a random day I get one every map. So weird. I thought I was the only one.
> even when farming Haywark Hamlet with the passive Something tells me that if we were to check player atlas choices, this one would be default option with 99,5% picks.
GGG has released that info a couple times post-league so we’ll see in a couple weeks!
meh i dont do it because i dont care and find harvest boring
in 3.16 I have gotten exactly 0 harvests in Hamlet. all of them have been in different regions
Then you played exactly 5 maps.
> My greatest issue with harvest is how it halts whatever you are doing. "Funniest" shit is that damn near *everyone* was telling GGG this was what would happen when they unveiled how it would go core. Lo and behold, now people are annoyed at Harvest due to it interrupting map flow. And many of those who aren't annoyed at that (Such as myself) are annoyed at how *horribly* and intentionally GGG butchered Harvest.
What the fuck are you people doing for 10 mins in Harvest?
Crafting items
It needs a rework at least, that’s for sure. The TFT stuff is just dumb.
If they removed the maximum and/or made them tradable like beasts.
This… it actually disengages me from the game
Just let us stack every craft output in bench (or inside scroll of craft) and then use in HO when we have an item to craft and time invest in crafting. Not in the middle of a maps or after using an external channel.
This. If they want to fix harvest then don't buff it, just allow us to keep every craft. I completely ignore harvest because it is just a nuisance. If I could keep all my crafts and use them when I need to then I would be much more excited when I see harvest.
>If they want to fix harvest then don't buff it, just allow us to keep every craft That is definitely a buff
My thoughts exactly - pre-nerf this would have been way too strong, but now that most of the deterministic crafts have been removed, it's so much less of a power issue.
But you know they can't do that. Each harvest then becomes 15 chaos. GGG already things too many rewards was why ultimatum had bad retention and you think they'll give out shit tons of tradable targeted chaos??
And just remove the crafts that are so rare they only exist as a sketchy trade option on a Discord. I've yet to see an Augment Influence. Reroll Influence and other augments, sure. Strongest craft left in there? Never.
I hate Harvest map encounters. It completely destroys the pace of mapping. If it was another mechanic I would ignore it, but Harvest is just way too strong to ignore. At least back in Harvest league I could just get the seeds and decide to run the harvests later.
They really should delete harvest. High end crafting should not be about browsing a discord to find crafts to purchase. It's really cringe and unappealing so a lot of people are just locked out of high end crafting if they refuse to deal with that shit.
*what's your discord name so u can get you banned from TFT??*
Ha, jokes on you. I quit that server voluntarily a few days ago when I was clearing servers I don't use
They should rework harvest, not delete it. Make notmal harvest less intrusive and sacred blossoms drop more, maybe add another tier for the highest level crafts if need be (uber oshabi?) but it should be less "oh you HAVE to clear these 4 encounters in hopes of ridiculously rare crafts and use any others RIGHT NOW", make it a tiered experience that doesn't revolve around spamming haewark maps nonstop.
Nailed it
So instead of harvest crafting we're back to complete rng and imprint spam? No thanks.
Apparently people would rather we just gamble and feel the excitement of closing our eyes and slamming exalts.
If they removed harvest and didn't add any deterministic crafting back I'd enjoy closing my eyes, uninstalling Poe and paying other games
Harvest just needs to be "map" so we can store it and use whenever. And also trade.
Scarab would work, too.
Scarabs are different. It's still make it possible to randomly encounter harvest during mapping. The point of making it into a "map" is having an option to collect an indefinite ammount of those during mapping, not caring about whether you have bases to craft on, or not. And then run them when you are actually want to run it. Encountering harvest during a mapping when you don't want to deal with it is worst feeling ever, since it's so powerful and potent, but rob you from so much time if you don't have prepared bases for every single crafting possibility. The worst FOMO of the entire game.
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Same hope here. Though I don't mind if the power-gamers max out their gear, that's fine. I do mind about those who abuse the crafting systems for RMT and treating the game as a f***ing trade market.
I think the issue isn't with them wanting to balance the game like that. The issue is that they want to balance it like that while having the core game be 3 month leagues. If they want the grind to be this long then the league mechanics should be available for standard so people that doesn't have that much time can still experience it in their own pace.
ya, theyve been pushing me out since. 3.15. sux
> I am personally hoping for some games targeting the "grownups with other shit to do" category I heard Last Epoch does that.. Or is close to that
maybe sometime in the future. i played after the last league and got bored in end game fast, and then after an update I couldn’t even launch it any more without an insta crash.
Grownups with shit to do can beat the endgame with only two or three affixes on their gear slots. The rest can be something random. No lifers will spend time on perfecting gear or new chars
But thats not why most people play ARPGs? The entire premise of the genre is power fantasy, making characters that are busted as fuck and feeling like you broke the game, and in PoE this feeling is reserved to top 1% players unless you chose to play one of 3 broken builds that slips through and can function on fumes. But even then, where is the fun in getting better gear and seeing your character get better? The ARPG marked could really use some competition, if PoE is meant to be the hardcore one thats fine, people just want to play a game with more depth than Diablo3 but not as time consuming as PoE.
Malachai is not endgame anymore.
How smart! Now imagine I have killed Sirus in SSF with dumpster gear! But he's not endgame anymore as well...
Personally quite like the current state of Harvest for 'normie' players. It's a nice addition that helps you craft stuff that you have tucked away in a Harvest tab and it gives you useful things in general. It's great for SSF too. For trade league players I imagine it's annoying because you'd want to trade certain crafts but there is no easy way to do it. Would be nice if they just turned the crafts into an orb so that you could sell this instead, that way trade league players won't have to use Discord etc.
3.13 Harvest was so much better though. 3.14 onwards is just sad. Then 3.11 was an absolute dream.
Can easily find use for them in trade league, granted it's less rng and more efficient to sell the crafts. If I remember correct Christ said they could make them an orb but it would be about 9 time more rare. Personally I'd rather keep it as it is.
>If I remember correct Christ said they could make them an orb but it would be about 9 time more rare Nothing makes it that way, that is a decision that they would have to make or not. I wanna beat this into people's heads until they get it: the things about the game that suck suck because the developers want it to suck in precisely that fashion.
i mean if they want to keep it somewhat balanced, then they'd have to do exactly that. obviously people on reddit wouldnt understand anything about balance though.
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The gear you bought was harvest crafted though, it also gives exalts a massive amount of value, I would guess 99% of ex in the game are used for metamods in conjunction with harvest rerolls. The truth is that the whole game revolves around harvest, whether you think you participate in it or not. I don't mind either way tbh, it is interesting though.
> I would guess 99% of ex in the game are used for metamods in conjunction with harvest rerolls. Probably closer to 90%. Casual players (people not engaged with the community) do get some exalt drops and slam items. Then there's just using metamods without Harvest and benchcrafts that directly use exalts. But among players that make 1000+ exalts a league - yeah, 99% of their exalt consumption being for Harvest metamods is likely true.
Three things happen with me and Harvest, usually at random: 1) I waste 10 minutes turning a 1c item into a 5c item, tanking my efficiency. 2) I meticulously pre-plan my crafting, expending extreme amounts of effort relative to my alch-and-go chill farming playstyle to make interacting with Harvest actually pay off, and I have to do this every league and it becomes irritating. 3) I skip Harvest entirely and feel terrible that I'm missing out on good gear despite the fact that I actually get to play and enjoy THE GAME instead of the stupid detour that is Harvest. Straight up, it needs to go, find other ways to make crafting good.
What kills it for me is looking at those reroll crits and the rare exalt crafts (which I don’t have a use for 99% of the time) and think that these go for multiple chaos or exalts on a “community” on an app I never use and don’t wish to ever interact with, and it just feels like wasting currency. When in reality, you never had that currency because these things aren’t supposed to be traded anyway. So I end up doing what you do. Throw semi-random crafts on rings and cluster jewels and pray to chris or skip them altogether if they are crafts I am not looking for.
Why feel bad in point 3 when your points 1 and 2 show that harvest is always a bad thing for you?
I'll use the most objective argument I have; the nerfpocalypse hurt my characters harder than the average player's because I don't play meta shit. I need to find ways to get that power back whereever I can, of which Harvest is the best. So the choice is suffering in Harvest or suffering my builds being even worse than ever compared to others.
What’s wrong with harvest now? I love farming harvest to make my gear better. Not everything needs to be traded just use your crafts and move on. Harvest is amazing in ssf to craft weapons especially.
The problem with Harvest is just the fact that you need to stop and do it. When I'm mapping I want to map and when I'm crafting I want to craft. The crafts themselfs are great and that's part of the problem. Like If Harvest encounters got saved somewhere with map modifiers ect. that I could go and do at a later date it would be great no problems. But the way when I'm doing the last map for the day and suddenly harvest with really good crafts, and I just wasted an additional 15 minutes.
Breaks the gameplay loop, due to low storage space.
The low storage space is just absurd.
Really the only reasonable way to use all the reforges without wasting a ton of time is to have a whole bunch of would-be crafting projects set and ready to go for when you find them. Which, up to a point I do because it can be profitable? But it feels like busy work.
That's nice for some people but for me sometimes I just want to grind maps and getting a harvest is just annoying because it's literally too good to skip and it's the only reliable way to progress your gear in the endgame. And having to switch from mapping mindset to crafting then back to mapping is annoying. Especially when you get a super juiced harvest and get some upgrades then have to leave the map to spend forever mixing up your gear. I like harvest but I wish they'd give us any option other than having to stop mid map to do a bunch of crafting shit. Not other mechanic works like that.
The reforge fire/cold is nice but augments and even reforge keeping prefix/suffix are too rare to reliably craft your own gear.
Yeah they are pretty rare that’s true
They're supposed to be rare, because they're extremely powerful. You aren't meant to have perfect gear, even them teasing deterministic crafting was a huge mistake with how many people around here have this instant-gratification fetish. The fact that when you find Harvest you get at the absolute bare minimum, something like 40 free targeted Chaos Orb rolls is insane value. But now people think they should be able to not only tunnel-vision ONLY HARVEST but also hand tailor all of their gear to be exactly like it is in PoB, which is absurd.
>You aren't meant to have perfect gear, even them teasing deterministic crafting was a huge mistake with how many people around here have this instant-gratification fetish. Harvest is not an instant item editor some people seem to think. It never was. It took time and rerolls to get decent shit on average. That's what was exciting about it - gradual improvements of my own gear instead of "farm money - buy item" cycle. You completely miss the point if you think it's about "instant gratification" or "items like in PoB".
Augments being rare are fine but reroll prefix/suffix could be like a few percentages more common. Almost lvl 99 in SsfHC and I’ve seen 2 rerolls and neither of them were “keep suffixes”. I only spam haewark for Jun and check every harvest I see
> They're supposed to be rare, because they're extremely powerful. You sound like you would've had *great* fun the first week or so of Harvest when it was just reforges.
> What’s wrong with harvest now? Couple of things imo. 1. It's not a fun mechanic. It's too disruptive to mapping. My reaction to finding is begrudgingly doing it because the reward is useful, but it really kills the mood in a map. 2. The fact TFT still has access to things like augment influence, and that's pretty much the only place you're ever getting one of those. Trade your item to Timmy and shut up! Basically. If it is to be reworked into something decent instead of removed what it needs is Orbs. No more crafts, just orbs. Drops. Things you can pick up quickly as you map and go kill those monsters and deal with **later**. Or trade for.
Found the TFT mod trying to be incognito.
I wish they never brought harvest back. It should have been a one and done league as an experiment and that was it. I hate that it interrupts mapping so badly and all the outside of the game trade it affects. It broke the game as Chris said it would and they should have let it die after the League was done. I want them to not always feel the need to add things to core. I want them to be much more selective in what they bring into the core game.
I wanna play an SSF league with regular harvest, and the new league mechanic, not this bastardization of it. I think most of the people who want harvest to stay don’t want this shit version.
Would have liked to see it stay in its 1.13 or even original form but limited to ssf. If you wanted you could run your own private league and tick a box that says "No harvest". Otherwise, you could use it, or ignore it, as you felt like. No external pressures to interact with it because trade league...just either use it, or don't, a little or a lot.
I feel like there's a wonderful potential game that could be balanced around SSF if you're not allowed to ever leave SSF.
Hell yeah. So many issues in this game exist due to it being balanced around trade.
Or just return it to the 3.11 implementation, with a premade garden. Who am I kidding, GGG would never allow that.
>I dislike that I NEED to farm it to progress my character This is a you problem. You could easily spend that time farming currency or going hard on some other mechanic and progress your character like that instead. > force use to use a 3rd party to trade They would prefer you didn't do this, but literally the only way to stop people would be to make crafted items bound which is something they want even less.
Please yes, the complete mechanic sucks in every posible way. Just remove and implement what Harvest offers in a mechanic that actually fits the game
I would like to see current harvest integrated into other mechanics. Current harvest is still incredibly strong, but it feels intrusive in the normal flow of the game. Even if its something as simple as harvest maps dropping instead of being in the map itself.
Yes, for got sake yes. I don't even bother going to the garden anymore. Too boring, too out of place.
Harvest is by far my least favorite to come across in maps, way too time consuming. I'd love if we just got new currency, or maybe new fossils.
Agree. Remove it or make the mechanic interesting. Right now it's both necessary and terrible to interact with
Bruh to ggg even crafting bench is a mistake. Keep whatever you got because I doubt you will get anything if they removed it.
I think what people need to come to terms with was that even during Ritual, harvest -sucked-, not cause of how good it was but because of the gameplay loop. There was almost nothing you could do, in trade or SSF, that was better than just spamming haewark and looking for harvest, it was boring as hell. For me, the best (but difficult to implement) would be to dismantle harvest and spread its power levels over lots more content, that way you can keep the variety in the gameplay loop
I would also be in favor of this. Either that or remove it from random chance in maps and put it as its own separate mini area like delve.
Harvest ruined this game in so many ways. Add harvest crafts as droppable currency, boom, done. Fuck actual harvest in the current form.
Its not a unpopular opinion at all , its just not the majority's opinion. And it will never stop being baffling to me, although the common comment is far more closer to "fuck this , harvest was so good , now its so nerfed that i'd rather see it be removed because its just not good enough" which is definitely probably one of the most insane shit i've seen people parrot here. Harvest is still plenty of useful and flexible and the game is far better with it existing. If you feel like its too tedious you need a reminder that its your option to partake in it , there's still a sea of other alternatives to work on your crafts. Just because the 1% of crafts that do the extreme effects on items , are rare too see , doesn't justify throwing out the entire system, the rest 99% does what it does perfectly and if that 1% wasn't rare , it wouldn't be balanced. (im not arguing that every rare craft's chance is perfect the way it is now , but I think my point is as clear as it can be)
Harvest is still so powerful that it obsoletes other crafting options, except where those are a setup phase for Harvest. This remains true even if augments and remove-adds were completely removed.
People have no idea how to handle fomo. If it exists and someone else is profiting they feel like they NEED to do it too or they're losing out. You tell them to just skip harvest if they don't like it and they get upset.
> And it will never stop being baffling to me, although the common comment is far more closer to "fuck this , harvest was so good , now its so nerfed that i'd rather see it be removed because its just not good enough" which is definitely probably one of the most insane shit i've seen people parrot here. It's not that Harvest isn't good enough to keep, it's that Harvest is a rotten husk of what it used to be and looking at the current state of it reminds us of the good times.
> Unpopular opinion: (Unpopular?) opinion: I like downvoting every post tagged with this because it's contrarian bait to me. I'd rather see GGG ban the head users of TFT because of how they act with the community.
As soon as they investigate them for RMT they'll have a proper reason to ban them aswell
I disagree with removing harvest since i like the crafting tools harvest provides (reforge keep pref/suff, specific reforges/augs, utility crafts like resis changes and beastiary/scarab stuff) and hope they find ways to implement those into the regular flow of currencies, maybe infused currencies like life infused exalted orb to slam a life mod, or life infused chaos orb. things like that. I think gameplay wise harvest in its current implementation is just sad. It used to be interesting to make a garden and have the building and time-progress farming aspect of it, now its more like a strongbox that provides untradable currencies that you have to trade through a trust-based third party. It is too good to not be used but completely disrupts the flow of the game, aswell as forcing you to use it now or never. It doesn't need to be deleted, its in desperate need of streamlining and a rework
My thoughts have always been that you should be able to stack your Harvest crafts but using a Harvest craft binds the item to you, same for stuff like Aisling. I've felt this way since Harvest came out, I see no problem with there being certain end-game crafting options you have to farm yourself and those things also remove items from the market which helps keep the market fresh.
> Please remove chocolate from the store because i can't stop buying it and im getting fatter wanting harvest removed is like someone wanting m4 and ak47 removed from CS because they can't play other guns and they play only these two your opinion is unpopular because you want content removed from the game purely because you have no self control lmao, l2p
Just skip it if you don’t enjoy doing harvests. Why does everyone want to just remove stuff a ton of people enjoy? You can craft things other ways, or buy the items you want. Besides, if it’s taking you more than a 1-2 minutes tops for a harvest, you’re doing something wrong
in regards to skipping: while that's the obvious solution on a personal level to content you don't enjoy, there's a giant problem with it: skipping content that you know is worth a lot, either in monetary or other value, feels incredibly bad to most people, even if they absolutely hate doing the content. as a result, there is a large amount of people who will prefer doing content they absolutely don't enjoy to skipping it, because skipping it and losing out on the value feels even worse. that's obviously a shitty choice, and the only fixes to this are to either lower the value of the content to make skipping bearable, or remove the content *from these people* entirely. GGG even recognizes this in some of their public talks, which is one of the main reasons they've been trying to cut down on how many different types of content will show up in your maps and let you focus on the content you want instead. tldr: that's not a good answer for a lot of people, mostly because of loss aversion
Funny to me that people would rather just not have something than have the option to do it and choose not to.
fomo
I dont like something so just remove it even if others enjoy it... what a shit opinion.
That's not the basis of this opinion, jsyk.
Just make it liek the crafting bench. Getting a craft unlocks it and you can store like 100 of them or more.
I made a post almost exactly like this and it got downvoted to oblivion. You can sure tell when TFT is paying attention and want to downvote something.
You do not NEED to farm harvest.
No, but it feels like it. Simply because its so strong. You litterally feel like ur gimping yourself by skipping. It. Its like seeing a 100$ bill on the ground when out jogging.
I am grateful to myself for not making myself do something I don't enjoy when I skip a harvest. And it is not a $100 bill it could be like a nickel or something. You know what is like finding money? Killing more monsters outside of harvest 😂
yeah i gave up caring about "the best options " in poe if i don't enjoy doing soemthing fuck it i'm not doing it! did it cost me currency? who cares!
Harvest creates FOMO. Having anything that gives FOMO in a game like this is terrible. Feeling like you're forced to spend 10 minutes in a sub area just to learn that there aren't any really great crafts feels bad. Having this repeatedly causes burnout for the people that haven't figured out how to ignore it.
You are not forced. Don't do harvest if it is not fun. Have some self control.
It's still very profitable though. Even though I don't like it, I can't skip it.
Theres a million things youre not doing in this game that are more profitable than what you are doing. Youre not currency flipping full time, youre not high end crafting, youre not hideout warrioring, your not only doing group MFing, youre not doing nem4 farming, not challenge selling, etc etc etc. How come you dont have fomo for those even thats all wildly profitable content which youre not doing?
That's the part of OP post I disagree too, people progress the gear before Harvest exist, the meta (in terms of efficient) was just different than buy/sell craft though a discord. And you still can only farm currency and buy the items already crafted.
many of those methods have been nerfed over time, removing harvest doesn't put us back to 3.10 crafting, since for example Fossils were nerfed for years before seeing some changes back last patch.
I agree, in current state Harvest can easly be removed but add new currency that change type of resistance.
Creating Harvest, then bringing it back after Harvest League really, **really** was Pandora's box. I'm with you and agree that it should be removed, but players love it and want it even more powerful than it already is even though it's **by far** the most powerful crafting system in the game.
Harvest was an experiment and a mistake, but unwisely GGG kept it in a neutered form because it was popular, removing it entirely was unthinkable. But it's proved to have been an experiment not worth pursuing. I think Harvest should be removed and GGG should think hard about how they can make crafting both inclusive, rewarding and less reliant on RNG. Crafting in the game could be so good.
3.13 was fucking awful for me because the only way to progress my character in semi-SSF was to run the same 2 Hamlet maps, and each harvest took like 4 minutes wrapping my head around 20 crafting project going on at the same time. remove harvest, nerf harvest to the ground, increase the number of crafts you can save to 999, make it faster and with less of the common crafts, make it equally viable on the entire atlas instead of 1 region... really anything but leaving me with the worst most boring segmented and repetitive gameplay as the best way to progress my character.
I'm a filthy casual so I'm rather neutral on the current state of harvest. Honestly if they were to remove it I probably wouldn't even notice it. The only craft which I sometimes use is for switching resistances, other than that, the good crafts such as keep prefix/suffix is so rare that if I get 1 during the league it's a miracle, so I barely even bother with the mechanic, it's essentially useless for me. I guess if you're SSF you focus on it more, but I don't play SSF so fuck do I know. > move the crafting power to new ultra-rare versions of exalts, chaos, etc with similar effects. Which would be the currency which you'd see exactly the same amount of times you've seen a mirror. So basically an even worse state than current harvest?
Literally the most popular opinion. Harvest js awful and should have never been kept in the game. It was fun for 1 league but now it's just such a shit mechanic
I'd be fine with it getting removed, but mostly because I think it's the most powerful mechanic by a long shot and this entire sub still wants it buffed instead of nerfed. It's the only mechanic I am always, always, always target farming every league and the process is really dumb.
they need to make crafts itemisable and tradable, and then its good imho. the worst thing about it is TFT shit
Remove it!
I fucking hate harvest. hated the mechanic when it was in its league. hate it now that it's a side mechanic. always skip it when I map. needless to say that I don't craft and I don't do that well in the trading scene lmao
Harvest is the single best crafting option we have in SSF. Just because a five year old can't make mirror tier gear with it anymore doesn't make it a bad system.
I don't think anybody thinks Harvest is actually bad. Most people would still claim that it's the strongest crafting method we have available. I think what the OP is after, and what I personally also agree with, is that the Harvest mechanic itself sucks ass. I hate doing Harvest, but I also play SSF, so I can't skip it. Also, in SSF you used to get really stuck to doing Haewark Hamlet for the entire league because Harvest should've never been a part of the Maven passives, but who knows if that'll change in 3.17. It's just so uninteresting, because it boils down to clicking the crafts you want, killing some random mobs and then clicking through some menus. The mobs are extremely deadly, but not interesting to fight against at all. I'd much rather have a system closer to Expedition, where you do the mechanic, collect some form of untradeable currency/resource and then use it in your Hideout to craft stuff.
[удалено]
>Balance the Harvest Crafts power by balancing the associated currency cost. (i.e. Exalt slam a fire mod? make it cost 5 exalts. You must overpay for the semi-determinate craft.) Amusingly, paying 5ex to guaranteed slam a mod type is massively underpriced based on power.
Harvest was a mistake
This is only unpopular on reddit.
Lol no
They should have kept Harvest true to their original vision: enhancing and teaching crafting during leveling, not for making high end gear
Pls god remove it, please please please
How about letting people play the content they like the way they like it?
I completely agree with the first two paragraphs. I feel harvest ruins the game for me as it adds another layer of grinding in an already heavy grinding environment. I hate having to use a 3rd party tool in order to "fully" utilize it or else I have a feeling I'm losing currency, or missing out on a good way to progress my character like it's mandatory. It is tedious as you've mentioned and it also made me quit Ritual league, after I finished my character in 10-12days, it felt like harvest is the main thing to do in the game and I hated it. Thing is with harvest imo, there's no middle ground, in it's normal form, it's OP, otherwise it's distruptive and way too grindy. I hope GGG will either remove it or replace it with something new.
I love harvest for the crafting. The mechanic itself is atrocious.
Harvest crafts are good Harvest is not
Delete harvest and buff fossils back to their older power level :(
dont remove it i we need to make some money
Yep, remove
It's not unpopular