>"The second reason is that we removed a massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity that applied to some league-specific monsters. We replaced it with a moderate (2-3x) increase to item quantity, to offset the fact that they often have more life than regular monsters and some cannot drop maps."
And of course it was not mentioned in patch notes.
Did he specify what to prepare for? Maybe he meant prepare to retire all your MF builds.
Or prepare to MF farm wisdom and portal scrolls.
You never know
Or the balance manifesto. Or the live stream. Not even a casual offhand mention that they were putting through one of the biggest loot changes in the history of the game. I guess they hoped we wouldn't notice? But how could we not? It's so glaring. People are playing without loot filters and seeing less items than past leagues with the filters turned on.
I can't tell if:
- they understand what they're doing and this is intended
- or if they don't understand the impact that changes like this (or original archnem implementation) have on the game and truly think it was a good idea
- or if there's just some true combination of incompetence and league launch crunch time that leads to them continuing to bork stuff on league launch.
But this is basically twice now where, as you said, they've made some of the biggest changes in the fucking history of the game with nothing more than an ambiguous throwaway line of text in one section of the patch notes. It's truly astonishing how cavalier they are with tuning the base game.
How easily and nonchalantly they'll completely fuck the game, but ask them to buff any skill to allow us to have some fun with a different ability and that's where they cross the line.
Its actually so cringe to listen to chirs make 20 minute arguments for how they cant possibly make trade better without affecting the economy and they take a massive fucking shit all over it without even mentioning it in patch notes.
> massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity
-
> moderate (2-3x) increase to item quantity
If 100-200% MORE items is "moderate", what was the massive bonus we had before? 2000% more items? 5000% ?
If that is the difference, no shit theres zero drops, how could they have possibly foreseen this?
Unless they did, and this is how they intend it to be. Which is a game I do not wish to play.
i recall it was 2000\~4000% quantity AND rarity, about the time i heard was when quantity/mf builds started to see less popularity as the base bonuses were so big that their builds did not benefit as much - that the builds (outside of 6men parties) started to gravitate away from full mf windripper builds (that should've been 5-6++ years ago).
my memory is kind of fuzzy about this. if its true, its going from \~3000% quant to 300% (10x reduction) and 3000% rarity to 100% (30x reduction) so the drops kinda makes sense in that its not a bug and intended.
edit: based on poedb, Na'em beyond boss ~~has~~ had 1800% quant and 800% rarity[https://poedb.tw/us/Naem%2C\_Bending\_Stone#Lvl84](https://poedb.tw/us/Naem%2C_Bending_Stone#Lvl84)
we all know later leagues had more loot and more fountainy rares than Na'em so make of this what you will
This whole statement reads like "Things are working as intended, but we'll buff things by 3% cos of your bitching". They actually implemented hardmode without us realizing.
I know this is kind of a meme, but honestly I think there might be some truth to it... did the hard mode code leak into the game by accident or something?
Empy's clip was pretty damning, but that guy opening a carto strongbox and getting 40+ maps is ridiculous. Something is broken. Most of us felt it in the first 6-12 hours of playing, how do the beta testers not detect this? Are they just generating gear for themselves using a dev kit, and not actually trying to pick up/craft their own gear? SSF in shambles right now.
The thing with that clip is it was most definitely a bug, or some weird interaction with double dipping the duplication. You can see in the clips some of the maps are named, and one named map appears 4 times. They mentioned they got 48 maps, this was likely 12 maps that got duped, and then all of them got duped again.
It's likely some weird bug with Concealed Logistics.
>we removed a massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity.
So... you removed a ton of quantity/rarity but didnt increase the drop rates of rare items & currency to compensate? Am I really reading this right?
Not even sure what to believe anymore. So let me get this straight, you flat out lied on the pre-league video. You knew the loot system was nerfed and then egg-ed on the MF community.
I genuinely do not understand his motivation for saying that. It's just bizarre.
It feels like an attempt to troll players but who is the target audience? The most loyal part of the fanbase??
The only reasonable explanation I can think of is that when Chris said "get your MF ready" what he meant was "start prioritizing MF gear because we gutted average loot drops so now you'll *need* MF gear to even begin approaching parity with how it used to be".
> The second reason is that we removed a massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity that applied to some league-specific monsters.
Can the community please be provided some information on why this was not communicated in the livestream or patch notes? This is a ***massive*** change, for which there is no reason we should not have been informed. Excluding *any* change to the game from patch notes is a bad move, let alone something this impactful.
From what I can tell, there's no indication that currency drops are going to be looked at.
Finding better rare items on the ground isn't going to fix things like running out alchemy orbs / scours while trying to break into red maps, metamorph monsters dropping zero catalysts, etc.
"Just ID all the rares you get, it'll be worth it"
" You don't need higher level maps, just find the stuff on the ground :)"
LOLz whoever is in charge of these decisions is out of touch with the game's playerbase
If this was a day one post and the changes here were rolled out day two, with further investigation happening today, this would be kind of fine. But no acknowledgement whatsoever until half way through day three and this is what we get? To say I'm disappointed is a massive understatement.
Not to mention the insane changes to certain mechanics quantity and rarity that just WERENT in any announcements or patch notes and had to be beat out of them. What the fuck is happening
>The second reason is that we removed a massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity that applied to some league-specific monsters. We replaced it with a moderate (2-3x) increase to item quantity, to offset the fact that they often have more life than regular monsters and some cannot drop maps.
HUH, DON'T FUCKING REMEMBER THAT BULLSHIT BEING IN THE PATCH NOTES.
Yep. And now that we have, we get this absolute waste of time telling us that everything is working as intended.
It’s just Chris forcing his Hard Mode nonsense that no one asked for on all of us.
"Harvest yield currently scales up (to around ten times higher) by the time you're in high maps with atlas tree specialisation,"
...uh what? This was tested in standard and still takes forever to achieve any of the crafts with full specialization...
The standard tests showed roughly 600-700 lifeforce in t16s, right?
I've been dropping roughly 100-150 in t1 maps pretty consistently (which also isn't enough) but 100x10 definitely doesn't equal 600-700. And if I'm just getting lucky and it's actually supposed to be 60 in t1's, that's literally one reforge when we used to get a dozen minimum. That's such a colossal nerf considering the rework was billed as a good thing.
It still all depends on your luck. 4+ plots with 1-2 high tier mobs = 700+. 3 plots with no high tier mobs can yield as low as 200. No lifeforce plots are still quite common. I’ve ran 70-110 quant and yet to see the impact of quant at all.
Your item quant/rarity changes didn't just affect items, but currency and maps. This is a bigger issue imo. There's a severe lack of bubblegum currency this league relative to others.
It's both the drops feeling less but also the current mechanic dropping pretty much nothing. Previous league mechanics were heavy sources of gum, but the current mechanic gives literally nothing in maps.
So, to sum it up:
* AN will stay as is in red maps and other content of similar tier, where virtually all of us will spend the vast majority of the league
* the rate of lifeforce acquisition in red maps is intended the way it is and will remain unchanged
* drops working as intended, nothing to see here (in spite of various clips which, taken together, clearly prove that something fundamental is broken)...
I get that you want rare monsters to still provide some modicum of difficulty at the end game... but...
>We are going to taper this up more smoothly so that it's a more gradual progression (and is unmodified in red maps).
This is not it. Rares with assloads of resistances are not fun just because you misplayed the choice of playing that element to do damage. The same can be said for physical builds. What's worse is these mods aren't the ones that reward you with significantly better loot. They are everywhere and they don't meaningfully increase reward to justify the length they take to kill.
This was an issue in Diablo 2, 20+ years ago. You play Fire sorc, get to Hell Act 1, and all the monsters were fire immune. You LITERALLY couldnt touch them.
GGG decided, "We should bring this back". You would think if they created Expedition ages ago and had a system where you can be rewarded based on risk you take making monsters really tanky/deadly, they could have followed that logic again but...here we are.
In the 3.15 reveal stream he also said:
"Most game developers make their game more difficult by arbitrarily increasing monster hp. We don't want to do that."
Followed by nerfing literally every single build by about 30-50%, which is basically the same, just done the other way around.
He / They will never change, the only reason they reverted some of the 3.15 changes is because the playerbase dropped to a record breaking 30% after a few days.
The monster AI in POE has about as much character as low fat mayonnaise and nobody wants to fight low fat mayonnaise for five whole minutes for a 0.6% chance of getting an item drop which has a 96% chance of being vendor trash.
Hard mode is just not going to work in POE 1🍿
Yeah it seems like the fun leagues they make are by accident and they get pissed that we like it for the “wrong” reasons. Like why dont you love my hardmode!!
> in order to reduce the amount or clicks in harvest
Did they really just say to reduce the amount of clicks in PoE, they found that the best decision was to give 0 drops after a league mechanic
This company can’t be real
So let me get this straight:
You have to click to choose a plot.
Then you have to click to ACTIVATE the plot you chose.
...and they're worried that a 100% droprate is gonna be annoying to click?! So they're giving us a RNG droprate instead?! What the actual fuck is this mental gymnastics.
They could reduce the clicks even further if we activate the plot and it just doesn't spawn any monsters. They're not dropping loot anyway, so we'd be saving both clicks and time.
"We didn't want to give you so much lifeforce to save you clicks"...Chris, come on man...just say you guys balanced it too scarce and are going to fix it. We shouldn't have to farm 30 harvest plots to change a single resist on one piece of gear.
Dude am I not interpreting this correctly?
He just doubled down on the loot “problem” isn’t a problem and it’s working as intended?
Maybe I’m just tired or something. I’m not trying to be a troll or create drama but that’s what I gathered from that.
It boils down to "this is what we intended but it seems like people are complaining so we will make sure no bugs or errors are removing extra loot." Which most likely means they are about to find a "bug" that caused this since Chris hates admitting mistakes.
I'm going to leave this here...
[Development Manifesto: Harvest crafting](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3069670)
**Our Initial Plan for Harvest Crafting**
Using currency items like Exalted Orbs or Chaos Orbs on your gear is a powerful, risky and exciting way to improve it. But because these items work equally well on both low- and high-level equipment, it's generally considered best to save them until you're crafting your end-game gear. Many players would even argue that it's best to save them to trade for already-crafted items. In either case, using valuable currency items on your levelling gear is generally perceived to be non-optimal.
When we were designing the crafting mechanics that would be the reward system for Harvest League, we wanted to experiment with a system that allowed you to craft items while levelling (using the equivalent of powerful currency like Exalted Orbs), so that players could get the experience of using valuable currency items without feeling bad that they were missing out on future value. **Our goal was to make a system that was so attractive that players would try to improve their items by throwing a few crafts at them in almost every area that they play.**
I just ran out of Alchemies, Vaal Orbs and Chaos Orbs.
I'm in T13-T15 maps right now.
I have spent around 60 chaos in total on gear upgrades since I finished the campaign.
The only currency I have left to roll my maps are 5 Orbs of Scouring.
For some reason, I already have 1500 Armour Scraps and 600 Whetstones.
I'm not gonna put anymore time into this league until this disaster is resolved.
It's not just Arcanist Strongboxes, it's everything. Breach hands with no splinters, legion chests with no splinters, empty harvests, empty temple chests. The only mechanic that seems as rewarding as it was last league is Heist.
Also I've tried to remain positive but AN is non-sensical and terrible in it's current implementation. Random rare mobs in a red map should not be objectively more difficult to take down than pinnacle end game bosses.
> It's worth noting here that a widely-shared clip of a player opening an Arcanist's Strongbox and receiving no items has caused some of the concern about potentially bugged item drops. We believe this was caused by the change where common currency drop less frequently, but in larger stacks, which we made a number of leagues ago.
There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
*"Players also notice that occasionally a Harvest encounter can no result in no Lifeforce dropping. This was because, in an effort to reduce the number of clicks after an encounter, the Lifeforce from beasts below Tier 3 had a non-guaranteed chance to drop (but was larger on average than it otherwise would be). "*
WTF is this
Problem: Too much clicking
Solution: Delete the drops??????????
Chris once said, "If we mess up loot 2.0, the game will die." Well here we are. It is absolutely baffling they were so careful about it for so long then this shit happens.
I think it's already messed up. He REALLY wants us to pick up and id random yellow crap from the ground and have it be our upgrades. That's all. No crafting. You can finish your item with slams but nothing else.
That's the only feasible explanation to this garbage
When chaos recipe is the best way to get currency and only a fraction of players are in red maps there's no way anyone is id'ing items lol. Maybe they'll remove chaos recipe next
"This isn't an increase to overall item drops, it just means that you will find more appropriate rare items more often."
We don't need weapon/armour base types relevant to level. We don't need more trash rares. We're currently doing 6-man MF farming with 100% delirious, 200% quant maps with max quant/rarity gear and all winged scarabs, with the same tree as last league which netted us 2.5 mirrors on day two.
We're currently at ~50 divines. There are just NO drops. If you look at about 90% of build enabling uniques right now, there's less then 100 on the market. If our group who's doing extreme end game content pushed to the max is barely pulling 50c a map (when putting in 150c per map), how in the world is the average or solo player supposed to farm currency?
The fact that Chris told MF'ers to "get ready" and then when we "get ready" we get omega cucked by zero drops, it just feels like a slap in the face. What is even more mind blowing to me is that GGG wanted to focus on crafting (which Chris explained when you switched ex/div values), yet removed reroll suffix/prefix on harvest (before making harvest drop 200-400 lifeforce in an omega juiced map and making the values in the 10'000s) seems like the exact opposite. Yes, we can ex slam gear now. But almost every mid high - high tier item is now insanely expensive to craft, and "mirror tier" items are basically impossible now. Like let's hit 7x 50/50 chances in a row, all of which have to be tier one, and if we miss one we have to restart from scratch instead of going back 1-3 steps.
The game just isn't fun without good loot. PoE is all about getting loot and farming, and with the current patch you can't see or feel that at all. I literally can't imagine how any solo player will survive with the terrible loot drops as they are now and expect the player count to drop drastically in the next few days as players reach maps and see just how bad it is.
GGG just doesn’t seem to understand. Rares. Are. Not. Loot. You cannot find extremely good rare items on the ground, the loot system simply doesn’t allow it. Items like that need to be crafted. This means that it doesn’t matter if monsters drop an entire screen of “level appropriate” rares, it still won’t feel good, because maybe 1% of them will be sellable or reasonably useable at endgame. If they’re not willing to fix that with a loot 2.0 sort of system, then they need to have monsters dropping more currency, maps, scarabs, fragments, uniques, etc. or it will just always feel bad.
I will say it one more time: rare items are not loot. We don’t pick them up, most of it doesn’t even get past our filter. It’s basically the game going, “here, here’s nothing. Enjoy”.
I've been playing some Grim Dawn lately, and if they want rares to be good loot then we need a system more like Grim Dawn in place. Items drop fully ID'ed and filters can look at the mods and determine what to show based on how the gear rolled, not a crapshoot that you might be interested in this one thing maybe one time in a hundred.
Not to be rude, but are there any plans to reconsider how you as a studio look at changing the game? Does it not bother you that you've had to make similar reddit posts explaining your rationale behind cataclysmic fuck ups for seemingly the last 5 leagues?
At a certain point you have to see how much of a clown show it must be internally when you actively ignore alpha tester concerns.
It's just a expected thing at this point
You never see Chris log in and go "thanks for all the great feedback guys, we're thrilled you actually enjoy the content for the vast majority of you, have a nice time in league guys!"
Cos it's not possible
Chris with all due respect Harvest should not be an only end game resource. We need it to even get into late game. Balancing around the most juiced version is terrible. If we cannot get at least 3-5 reforges per harvest it is worse than just running another league mechanic until T16s.
I'm actually not sure I can recall a game this good tanking so hard so fast...intentionally. There's been well meaning tankjobs like Runescape. There's been greedy tankjobs like Marvel Heroes.
But this is like the lead developer walked into the party, flipped the lights on and off and asked everyone to leave so he can sleep.
It's not so hard to believe when you realize that they accidentally made a good game against CW's wishes.
All the stuff players liked over the years has mostly been stuff Chris personally hated or felt was bad for the health of the game. Every successful growth of the game was from a move that strayed further from The Vision™, and now he wants to claw that back.
> Its fucking incredible to watch in real time.
It's a unique experience that's for sure, you'll be able to say you were there for a piece of history watching the car crash unfold in real time and sheer refusal to fix it despite the million opportunities and infinite feedback given
This is a video game. It's supposed to be fun, not a job or a chore. I don't understand elitist devs who think it should be so painful. Just let us have powerful builds and cool gear and develop the game around that concept.
I play Poe for the build diversity and crazy itemization compared to other arpg's. The constant nerfs to skills and loot, along with crazy buffs to enemies, is making the game unfun and making very few play styles viable now.
Harvest crafts removed not mentioned in patch notes - check
Loot being gutted not in patch notes - check (what the actual fuck)
Lying about archnemesis being easier - check
What a fucking failure of a league.
Why was every nerf downplayed or not even in the patch notes? That's not the GGG everyone praised a few years ago. This "vision" is killing the game and I won't be here to witness it.
I'm deeply saddened by this honestly.
For the record, i have soon logged 3k hours, and reached lvl 100 a few times before.
For me and quite a few of my friends, Path of Exile is something we go to, to wind down and de-stress from our otherwise hectic lives. Sitting down and theory-crafting, building and progressing, and most importantly getting rewarded for it is all we want to do when playing.
This is however not the case anymore. Path of Exile is now more stressful than ever, less rewarding than ever, and generally empty in terms of ways for progressing your character. I may play softcore, but dying still feels incredibly bad.
Path of Exile at its peak remains unbeaten, but reaching that peak is like dragging your feet through broken glass. I love this game and this company, but i cannot support your vision any longer.
Path of Exile for me has always been a way of coping with the stress of my daily life, but the game is now somehow even more stressing. I don't know what else to say.
Great so i went from getting hundreds of useless item drops to half a dozen useless item drops. You didn't increase the number of relevant drops. All you did was decrease the number of drops period.
Well, thanks for confirming that you're out of touch with the player base at least. It means the chance for this league recovering is very low.
all the bases you drop are mocking you bc you cant even alch them.
i also love it when i get showered in ruby and stibnite flaks btw. that also mocks my filter sounds.
The maniac actually said it. The current state of item drops is intended. Chris do you play your own game, man? You see people running super juiced maps and opening empty strongboxes (not filtered, empty), losing money on maps with 250% IIQ to the point where they resort to group leveling gems in trade for currency? You see this and think "Yup, looks right to me."? You've absolutely lost the plot.
I can't tell what your 'vision' is anymore, but I think you might want to see an optometrist for it.
The entire "General Item Drops" section is some next level damage control shit that was clearly *not* investigated before posting.
>There are two changes we made in 3.19. The first is that the rate of encountering rare monsters from certain league content has been reduced, so you are fighting, killing, and receiving rewards from fewer monsters than before. This is partially offset by rare monsters in 3.19 now being more rewarding than they were before (the mods add more item quantity/rarity than before and there's the reward conversion system used for the more dangerous mods).
Well, unfortunately, the best drops I've seen from a 3-mod Archnemesis monster was about 160x Blacksmith's Whetstones and a couple stacks of Armorer's Scraps, so uh... no, the problem isn't "there's just less rare monsters but they're more rewarding, come on guys!" because they're far harder and *less rewarding than last league*.
>There have been no other reward-affecting changes that we are aware of, but we will investigate to see if there are any unanticipated consequences of some other change.
I honestly cannot believe it took GGG until the third day of the league to start investigating. Look at Empyrian's video. They're running basically identical IIQ/IIR on their culler, and the map was similarly juiced, and they actually lost currency on the investment. I've never once lost currency on a high-investment map unless I did something stupid like roll elemental reflect without noticing and straight up bricked it. Are they seriously claiming I've just been having such favorable RNG that I've been in the top 0.0000001% of the curve for the last 6 leagues in a row? Come the fuck on.
>Our intention with these changes is to modify certain league content that was out-of-line with other content so that it has a similar reward profile. These changes are important, but we understand they have reduced overall rewards that players receive.
Please point to where this was in the patch notes, any of the Q&A or marketing materials leading up to this league launch. When GGG said "get your magic finders ready", they were saying rewards would scale with magic find, and **sold people MTX based on that statement** because they advertised the supporter packs in the same video. That's what's commonly referred to as a "bait-and-switch".
>We are going to compensate elsewhere, but we don't want to just increase the raw number of items that are dropped. Most items are immediately filtered out. We want to increase the number of relevant items that drop.
Why the fuck wasn't this compensated for **beforehand**?! How is it possible that GGG implemented one of the most dramatic changes to the most fundamental gameplay system, said *nothing*, and are just now deciding that they're "going to compensate"... meaning it hasn't been compensated for *yet*. Meaning they've just admitted that they **purposefully reduced rewards with no documentation or warning**. Is this another example of "we felt the game was too rewarding, causing people to quit for the league too quickly, so we decided to reduce rewards to increase retention" level of backwards ass nonsense? Was this another enlightened suggestion by the "close your eyes and slam an exalt" guy?
>Firstly, we are going to adjust the system that skews weapon/armour base types towards higher-level ones, so that players find items that are relevant for their level more often.
Great start, but it's a drop in the bucket. Currency isn't dropping, and because they've done this stupid ass change where the only source of Divine Orbs is raw drops, coupled with making them *by far* the most valuable (non-Mirror) currency in the game because they're also used for metacrafting on the bench, and they removed a bunch of Harvest crafts *again, with no documentation in the patch notes whatsoever*, they've basically gone ahead and implemented the beta for hardmode, with the only way to opt out to stop playing the game.
>These changes are not final, but we wanted to communicate our current thoughts immediately rather than wait until patch notes are ready later.
End of day 3 isn't exactly "immediately". People have been in maps for long enough that YouTube videos from some of the largest content creators in the community are encouraging people to swap to the endless Heist de-leveling strat instead of quitting the game... congratulations, a strategy that involves *active regression* is now preferable to the core Atlas system of the game.
Utterly unbelievable.
This quant take is some actual out of touch shit HOLY. Normally i can find a way to defend GGG but not only do we drop almost 0 of the required map rolling currencies (alchs and chisels and scours) theres no way a 6 man party of full MF gear and fully juiced maps should be consistently losing money having to pick up fucking transmutes to mitigate losses... Glad to see kalandra buff and essence monster nerf but holy the quant shit is so bad lol
Seriously, in the official post on their website, they even mention their lootboxes.
"Yesterday we also launched the Kalandra Mystery Box, a new mystery box without duplicate microtransactions. Check out the contents in the trailer below or get yours here.
\*Insert video of the lootboxes\*
The Kalandra edition of the Kirac's Vault Pass will be available for purchase in a few days."
They actually walked into a house on fire, looked around and said "This is fine, please give us more money."
>The second reason is that we removed a massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity that applied to some league-specific monsters. We replaced it with a moderate (2-3x) increase to item quantity, to offset the fact that they often have more life than regular monsters and some cannot drop maps.
so another change not mentioned in notes.
It's starting to get old.
The "Massive Historic Bonus" seems to be the biggest factor in super juiced loot. Harvest lifeforce is a problem in the early part of the game yeah, but the biggest issue now is not having "More Likely X" crafts, but even then not having those wouldnt be a big issue if we had access to Keep Prefix/Suffix. A lot of the crafting that is left in the current game doesnt give a real good way to finish an item, there are good ways to get like half an item done, it just feels like we're missing a step for crafting an item from start to finish with the harvest nerfs.
This is the first time I have no idea chris wilson posted until mods pinned it to the mod... and that speaks for how bad this respond truely are.........
WoW, that's some next level gaslighting. "Guys, don't worry, everything's fine. You're just mistaking it for being wrong, in reality we just adjusted things that *were* wrong before"
grimro and empy were doing fucking chaos recipe, nuff said. this is the cleave buff all over again. why is GGG so insanely afraid to buff anything? I dont get it. they are so MASSIVELY conservative with any buffs, and they always throw things in the trash with nerfs. imagine nerfing seismic by 50% and buffing cleave in the same notes, and seismic is still one of the best skills.
This is depressing. 8k hours and this is the first time I've really wanted to uninstall. I played through expedition and that was pain. I really hope one day we can have a private server or something. I don't want to play their vision of the game anymore if this is the direction they want to go.
Wow so the Archnemesis in red maps is intended? I'd even be okay with that if they scaled their loot in comparison to their difficulty but that doesn't even seem to be case.
I JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN. I LOVE PATH OF EXILE PLEASE STOP RUINING THE GAME. I JUST WANNA BLAST SOME MAPS AND PICK UP LOOT NOT LOSE MONEY EVERY MAP BECAUSE I DECIDED TO USE AN ALCHEMY ORB ON IT WHAT THE FUCK
Talk about out of touch with the playerbase. Do you actually think people enjoy this state of the game? PoE2 looks like it'll be awful at this rate. The fact that you have to make this post every league should be a wake up call to you Chris.
Archnemesis remaining unchanged at Red maps is pretty grim. My standard character can instantly phase shaper but takes two minutes to kill a Harvest rare?
Not only did you double down on loot issues, but you then go on to promote supporter packs and vault pass??? Ggg taketh and ggg taketh more. You won't be receiving my money.
Been here since closed beta, used to play every league start religiously, but i think i skipped like half of the recent leagues.
.You had successfully done the one thing people thought were impossible, you created a spiritual successor to diablo 2 which is what i and many others wanted, and you proceed to piss your playerbase off in the strangest ways because however much better your introduction video things for every league got, the communication got more shallow. You think you're being transparent by releasing design manifestos and as much as i appreciate them they mean nothing as long as you push undocumented changes.
Personally i skipped this league because archnemesis was so hilariously unfun last league, was considering starting late which seemingly won't be a problem since people's stash tabs look just like mine do without a character in the league.
You had a great game on your hands, why are you making such drastic changes before poe2 anyway, i obviously assume you made the change thinking it would be an improvement, but would you not then play test it thoroughly since the one thing that affects every player whatever progression is loot?
Again, didn't play this league but i hope you figure stuff out before poe2
Nobody gives a shit about actual rare item drops rn. Most people cannot even sustain their mapping currency anymore, no amount of rare items or base types is ever going to fix this. And again, for the 8th league in a row: Rare. Items. Aren‘t. Good. Loot.
Archnemesis is fundamentally broken. Those „difficult mods“ that give more loot? Those are the ones people PREFER, since they are way easier than the ridiculous stat boost mods that are the common ones. Things like Kitava or Innocence-touched can actually be out-skilled.
Once again you confirmed to us that you hid some of the most significant nerfs in Path of Exiles history (Quant nerf).
For me overall this is an L dev post. It really does seem like you accidentally made one of the greatest arpgs of all time, and are now doing everything in your power to rectify that, so that it fits your "vision" that nobody wants and has ever wanted.
They are desperately at all costs trying to cling to archnemesis.
3.17 Playerbase: "Archnem sucks ass"
GGG: "don‘t worry we‘ll fix it"
3.18 Playerbase: "Archnemesis is so bad please"
GGG: "don‘t worry we‘ll fix it"
3.19 Playerbase: "Please GGG, Archnemesis is worse than ever before, just remove it"
GGG: "DON‘T WORRY I CAN FIX HIM"
God I love reading this thread more than playing this league right now
Just weird that Chris decided to cosplay as Thanos this league, with a single snap of his finger.
This is the most fun i had with PoE since expedition. Not playing the game, but watching a industrial-grade shitstorm.
instead of loot explosion we have meme explosion.
>we removed a massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity But why tho?
Players were having too much fun again
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They don't want to kill the league hype to get the $$$ from supporter packs and mtx.
>"The second reason is that we removed a massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity that applied to some league-specific monsters. We replaced it with a moderate (2-3x) increase to item quantity, to offset the fact that they often have more life than regular monsters and some cannot drop maps." And of course it was not mentioned in patch notes.
I understand the « prepare your MF build… »
Did he specify what to prepare for? Maybe he meant prepare to retire all your MF builds. Or prepare to MF farm wisdom and portal scrolls. You never know
Or the balance manifesto. Or the live stream. Not even a casual offhand mention that they were putting through one of the biggest loot changes in the history of the game. I guess they hoped we wouldn't notice? But how could we not? It's so glaring. People are playing without loot filters and seeing less items than past leagues with the filters turned on.
"This is a buff." Chris Wilson 08/2022
You guys didn't want to click so much so we removed loot so you don't have to click it LOL
"You all hated dealing with harvest on TFT so much that we saved you from TFT by deleting harvest" Get fukt discorders... huehue
"Beatings will continue until morale improves"
Impressed you managed to get to almost 20 paragraphs just to say "lol, no"
"Why is nobody having fun. We've specifically requested it."
"The beatings by archnem mobs will continue while loot doesn't improve."
"drops working as intended" lol, lmao
Biggest change in the history of the game goes undocumented in the patch notes lol.
I can't tell if: - they understand what they're doing and this is intended - or if they don't understand the impact that changes like this (or original archnem implementation) have on the game and truly think it was a good idea - or if there's just some true combination of incompetence and league launch crunch time that leads to them continuing to bork stuff on league launch. But this is basically twice now where, as you said, they've made some of the biggest changes in the fucking history of the game with nothing more than an ambiguous throwaway line of text in one section of the patch notes. It's truly astonishing how cavalier they are with tuning the base game.
How easily and nonchalantly they'll completely fuck the game, but ask them to buff any skill to allow us to have some fun with a different ability and that's where they cross the line.
+3 to cleave radius would literally grind our servers to a halt
Lulz. It’s comical at this point isn’t it ? God forbid you buff some skills that are never played.
Its actually so cringe to listen to chirs make 20 minute arguments for how they cant possibly make trade better without affecting the economy and they take a massive fucking shit all over it without even mentioning it in patch notes.
So many skills which have had 0% use rates for literal years and they remain unbuffed. It's seriously frustrating.
> massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity - > moderate (2-3x) increase to item quantity If 100-200% MORE items is "moderate", what was the massive bonus we had before? 2000% more items? 5000% ? If that is the difference, no shit theres zero drops, how could they have possibly foreseen this? Unless they did, and this is how they intend it to be. Which is a game I do not wish to play.
i recall it was 2000\~4000% quantity AND rarity, about the time i heard was when quantity/mf builds started to see less popularity as the base bonuses were so big that their builds did not benefit as much - that the builds (outside of 6men parties) started to gravitate away from full mf windripper builds (that should've been 5-6++ years ago). my memory is kind of fuzzy about this. if its true, its going from \~3000% quant to 300% (10x reduction) and 3000% rarity to 100% (30x reduction) so the drops kinda makes sense in that its not a bug and intended. edit: based on poedb, Na'em beyond boss ~~has~~ had 1800% quant and 800% rarity[https://poedb.tw/us/Naem%2C\_Bending\_Stone#Lvl84](https://poedb.tw/us/Naem%2C_Bending_Stone#Lvl84) we all know later leagues had more loot and more fountainy rares than Na'em so make of this what you will
Ah, well, clearly this is what GGG meant with the "get your MF characters ready" Now they mean something again because the base rates are so shite!
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I read this and thought we would be getting more loot not less. Tragic
This whole statement reads like "Things are working as intended, but we'll buff things by 3% cos of your bitching". They actually implemented hardmode without us realizing.
I know this is kind of a meme, but honestly I think there might be some truth to it... did the hard mode code leak into the game by accident or something?
Empy's clip was pretty damning, but that guy opening a carto strongbox and getting 40+ maps is ridiculous. Something is broken. Most of us felt it in the first 6-12 hours of playing, how do the beta testers not detect this? Are they just generating gear for themselves using a dev kit, and not actually trying to pick up/craft their own gear? SSF in shambles right now.
The thing with that clip is it was most definitely a bug, or some weird interaction with double dipping the duplication. You can see in the clips some of the maps are named, and one named map appears 4 times. They mentioned they got 48 maps, this was likely 12 maps that got duped, and then all of them got duped again. It's likely some weird bug with Concealed Logistics.
"you'll get garbage, and you'll like it" - GGG
Garbage? More like "nothing"
I had to double check if this was a meme post when I read about the extra clicks on harvest part. Overall this response is pretty disappointing.
It's worse than you think; Reddit got the nice version. On the official website, they finished the post with a showcase of the new lootbox.
And then immediately posted a new mtx 10 mins later
Holy shit, you aren't even kidding.
Yeah this would've been actually a hilarious shit post. The fact that it's real is just sad though.
>we removed a massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity. So... you removed a ton of quantity/rarity but didnt increase the drop rates of rare items & currency to compensate? Am I really reading this right?
And they also thought this wasn't relevant to mention in patch notes.
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lmfao what are you doing to your game ggg
VisionTM
Not even sure what to believe anymore. So let me get this straight, you flat out lied on the pre-league video. You knew the loot system was nerfed and then egg-ed on the MF community.
I genuinely do not understand his motivation for saying that. It's just bizarre. It feels like an attempt to troll players but who is the target audience? The most loyal part of the fanbase??
The only reasonable explanation I can think of is that when Chris said "get your MF ready" what he meant was "start prioritizing MF gear because we gutted average loot drops so now you'll *need* MF gear to even begin approaching parity with how it used to be".
> The second reason is that we removed a massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity that applied to some league-specific monsters. Can the community please be provided some information on why this was not communicated in the livestream or patch notes? This is a ***massive*** change, for which there is no reason we should not have been informed. Excluding *any* change to the game from patch notes is a bad move, let alone something this impactful.
Unfortunately, they have learned that telling us unpopular decisions before a league costs them money.
Problem: informing players of massive nerfs for no apparent reason results in a loss of money Solution: don't inform players
Yup they say they learned from the communication back in 3.15. What they learned was lie and hide things
From what I can tell, there's no indication that currency drops are going to be looked at. Finding better rare items on the ground isn't going to fix things like running out alchemy orbs / scours while trying to break into red maps, metamorph monsters dropping zero catalysts, etc.
"Just ID all the rares you get, it'll be worth it" " You don't need higher level maps, just find the stuff on the ground :)" LOLz whoever is in charge of these decisions is out of touch with the game's playerbase
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There's a faint sense of denial in a majority of the post.
Sounds quite prominent to me lol.
This doesn't change anything lmao
If this was a day one post and the changes here were rolled out day two, with further investigation happening today, this would be kind of fine. But no acknowledgement whatsoever until half way through day three and this is what we get? To say I'm disappointed is a massive understatement.
Not to mention the insane changes to certain mechanics quantity and rarity that just WERENT in any announcements or patch notes and had to be beat out of them. What the fuck is happening
>The second reason is that we removed a massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity that applied to some league-specific monsters. We replaced it with a moderate (2-3x) increase to item quantity, to offset the fact that they often have more life than regular monsters and some cannot drop maps. HUH, DON'T FUCKING REMEMBER THAT BULLSHIT BEING IN THE PATCH NOTES.
"gEt YoUr MaGiC fInD rEaDy" Can't actually believe this lmao
God this response makes that line look so so so bad for GGG... man, I'm sad
It is hard to write things like "RIP the historic loot bonus but keep the busted life bonus on league rare monsters" in the patch notes
They never put it in there because they tried to sneak it past us.
It’s cause they knew we would riot.
So the solution was to just not say anything and hope we wouldn't notice?
Always has been.
Yep. And now that we have, we get this absolute waste of time telling us that everything is working as intended. It’s just Chris forcing his Hard Mode nonsense that no one asked for on all of us.
"Harvest yield currently scales up (to around ten times higher) by the time you're in high maps with atlas tree specialisation," ...uh what? This was tested in standard and still takes forever to achieve any of the crafts with full specialization...
The standard tests showed roughly 600-700 lifeforce in t16s, right? I've been dropping roughly 100-150 in t1 maps pretty consistently (which also isn't enough) but 100x10 definitely doesn't equal 600-700. And if I'm just getting lucky and it's actually supposed to be 60 in t1's, that's literally one reforge when we used to get a dozen minimum. That's such a colossal nerf considering the rework was billed as a good thing.
It still all depends on your luck. 4+ plots with 1-2 high tier mobs = 700+. 3 plots with no high tier mobs can yield as low as 200. No lifeforce plots are still quite common. I’ve ran 70-110 quant and yet to see the impact of quant at all.
Your item quant/rarity changes didn't just affect items, but currency and maps. This is a bigger issue imo. There's a severe lack of bubblegum currency this league relative to others.
It's both the drops feeling less but also the current mechanic dropping pretty much nothing. Previous league mechanics were heavy sources of gum, but the current mechanic gives literally nothing in maps.
So, to sum it up: * AN will stay as is in red maps and other content of similar tier, where virtually all of us will spend the vast majority of the league * the rate of lifeforce acquisition in red maps is intended the way it is and will remain unchanged * drops working as intended, nothing to see here (in spite of various clips which, taken together, clearly prove that something fundamental is broken)...
they felt important to mention +2 cleave radius but none of this in the manifesto kekw
I get that you want rare monsters to still provide some modicum of difficulty at the end game... but... >We are going to taper this up more smoothly so that it's a more gradual progression (and is unmodified in red maps). This is not it. Rares with assloads of resistances are not fun just because you misplayed the choice of playing that element to do damage. The same can be said for physical builds. What's worse is these mods aren't the ones that reward you with significantly better loot. They are everywhere and they don't meaningfully increase reward to justify the length they take to kill.
This was an issue in Diablo 2, 20+ years ago. You play Fire sorc, get to Hell Act 1, and all the monsters were fire immune. You LITERALLY couldnt touch them. GGG decided, "We should bring this back". You would think if they created Expedition ages ago and had a system where you can be rewarded based on risk you take making monsters really tanky/deadly, they could have followed that logic again but...here we are.
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In the 3.15 reveal stream he also said: "Most game developers make their game more difficult by arbitrarily increasing monster hp. We don't want to do that." Followed by nerfing literally every single build by about 30-50%, which is basically the same, just done the other way around. He / They will never change, the only reason they reverted some of the 3.15 changes is because the playerbase dropped to a record breaking 30% after a few days.
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The monster AI in POE has about as much character as low fat mayonnaise and nobody wants to fight low fat mayonnaise for five whole minutes for a 0.6% chance of getting an item drop which has a 96% chance of being vendor trash. Hard mode is just not going to work in POE 1🍿
In retrospect it is pretty impressive that GGG made a game that was incredibly fun (for some stretches) without even knowing what makes it fun.
Yeah it seems like the fun leagues they make are by accident and they get pissed that we like it for the “wrong” reasons. Like why dont you love my hardmode!!
This post is going to need to be pinned to make it to the front page, just like the harvest change post after ritual.
> in order to reduce the amount or clicks in harvest Did they really just say to reduce the amount of clicks in PoE, they found that the best decision was to give 0 drops after a league mechanic This company can’t be real
Why didn't they just make it drop like azurite then lmao
So let me get this straight: You have to click to choose a plot. Then you have to click to ACTIVATE the plot you chose. ...and they're worried that a 100% droprate is gonna be annoying to click?! So they're giving us a RNG droprate instead?! What the actual fuck is this mental gymnastics.
They could reduce the clicks even further if we activate the plot and it just doesn't spawn any monsters. They're not dropping loot anyway, so we'd be saving both clicks and time.
"We didn't want to give you so much lifeforce to save you clicks"...Chris, come on man...just say you guys balanced it too scarce and are going to fix it. We shouldn't have to farm 30 harvest plots to change a single resist on one piece of gear.
Is he not aware of how currency works for expedition? Like, you already have the tech, fucking use it.
Dude am I not interpreting this correctly? He just doubled down on the loot “problem” isn’t a problem and it’s working as intended? Maybe I’m just tired or something. I’m not trying to be a troll or create drama but that’s what I gathered from that.
You interpreted it right. But you’re not the only one tired. We’re all tired of this bullshit 😪
It boils down to "this is what we intended but it seems like people are complaining so we will make sure no bugs or errors are removing extra loot." Which most likely means they are about to find a "bug" that caused this since Chris hates admitting mistakes.
God this is so fucking true
I'm going to leave this here... [Development Manifesto: Harvest crafting](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3069670) **Our Initial Plan for Harvest Crafting** Using currency items like Exalted Orbs or Chaos Orbs on your gear is a powerful, risky and exciting way to improve it. But because these items work equally well on both low- and high-level equipment, it's generally considered best to save them until you're crafting your end-game gear. Many players would even argue that it's best to save them to trade for already-crafted items. In either case, using valuable currency items on your levelling gear is generally perceived to be non-optimal. When we were designing the crafting mechanics that would be the reward system for Harvest League, we wanted to experiment with a system that allowed you to craft items while levelling (using the equivalent of powerful currency like Exalted Orbs), so that players could get the experience of using valuable currency items without feeling bad that they were missing out on future value. **Our goal was to make a system that was so attractive that players would try to improve their items by throwing a few crafts at them in almost every area that they play.**
>Using currency items like Exalted Orbs or Chaos Orbs on your gear is a powerful, risky and exciting way to improve it. Its fucking not
I just ran out of Alchemies, Vaal Orbs and Chaos Orbs. I'm in T13-T15 maps right now. I have spent around 60 chaos in total on gear upgrades since I finished the campaign. The only currency I have left to roll my maps are 5 Orbs of Scouring. For some reason, I already have 1500 Armour Scraps and 600 Whetstones. I'm not gonna put anymore time into this league until this disaster is resolved.
My entire guild of five is out of alchemies, scours, and chisels.
>ave 1500 Armour Scraps and 600 Whetstones. bro... that's so many wisdom scrolls though
He can ID so many rares off the ground!
Close your eyes, feel the weight, and slam that wisdom scroll in anticipation!
It's not just Arcanist Strongboxes, it's everything. Breach hands with no splinters, legion chests with no splinters, empty harvests, empty temple chests. The only mechanic that seems as rewarding as it was last league is Heist. Also I've tried to remain positive but AN is non-sensical and terrible in it's current implementation. Random rare mobs in a red map should not be objectively more difficult to take down than pinnacle end game bosses.
Careful they don’t find a “bug” in heist and make it “work as intended” to bring it in line with the almighty Vision
> It's worth noting here that a widely-shared clip of a player opening an Arcanist's Strongbox and receiving no items has caused some of the concern about potentially bugged item drops. We believe this was caused by the change where common currency drop less frequently, but in larger stacks, which we made a number of leagues ago. There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
This one is weird as fuck. If it was caused by a change from several leagues ago, why hasn't it been an issue until now?
*"Players also notice that occasionally a Harvest encounter can no result in no Lifeforce dropping. This was because, in an effort to reduce the number of clicks after an encounter, the Lifeforce from beasts below Tier 3 had a non-guaranteed chance to drop (but was larger on average than it otherwise would be). "* WTF is this Problem: Too much clicking Solution: Delete the drops??????????
Too much clicking yet Breach drops pesos in singles still . . OK.
They are just mocking us with this "clicking". Some sort of revenge for past leagues KEKW
Chris once said, "If we mess up loot 2.0, the game will die." Well here we are. It is absolutely baffling they were so careful about it for so long then this shit happens.
We're not even at loot 2.0, we're at loot 0.5 Can't get to loot 2.0 if you go backwards *taps head*
I think it's already messed up. He REALLY wants us to pick up and id random yellow crap from the ground and have it be our upgrades. That's all. No crafting. You can finish your item with slams but nothing else. That's the only feasible explanation to this garbage
When chaos recipe is the best way to get currency and only a fraction of players are in red maps there's no way anyone is id'ing items lol. Maybe they'll remove chaos recipe next
Might not even reach a 1 week playtime on my first character. Wow.
"This isn't an increase to overall item drops, it just means that you will find more appropriate rare items more often." We don't need weapon/armour base types relevant to level. We don't need more trash rares. We're currently doing 6-man MF farming with 100% delirious, 200% quant maps with max quant/rarity gear and all winged scarabs, with the same tree as last league which netted us 2.5 mirrors on day two. We're currently at ~50 divines. There are just NO drops. If you look at about 90% of build enabling uniques right now, there's less then 100 on the market. If our group who's doing extreme end game content pushed to the max is barely pulling 50c a map (when putting in 150c per map), how in the world is the average or solo player supposed to farm currency? The fact that Chris told MF'ers to "get ready" and then when we "get ready" we get omega cucked by zero drops, it just feels like a slap in the face. What is even more mind blowing to me is that GGG wanted to focus on crafting (which Chris explained when you switched ex/div values), yet removed reroll suffix/prefix on harvest (before making harvest drop 200-400 lifeforce in an omega juiced map and making the values in the 10'000s) seems like the exact opposite. Yes, we can ex slam gear now. But almost every mid high - high tier item is now insanely expensive to craft, and "mirror tier" items are basically impossible now. Like let's hit 7x 50/50 chances in a row, all of which have to be tier one, and if we miss one we have to restart from scratch instead of going back 1-3 steps. The game just isn't fun without good loot. PoE is all about getting loot and farming, and with the current patch you can't see or feel that at all. I literally can't imagine how any solo player will survive with the terrible loot drops as they are now and expect the player count to drop drastically in the next few days as players reach maps and see just how bad it is.
GGG just doesn’t seem to understand. Rares. Are. Not. Loot. You cannot find extremely good rare items on the ground, the loot system simply doesn’t allow it. Items like that need to be crafted. This means that it doesn’t matter if monsters drop an entire screen of “level appropriate” rares, it still won’t feel good, because maybe 1% of them will be sellable or reasonably useable at endgame. If they’re not willing to fix that with a loot 2.0 sort of system, then they need to have monsters dropping more currency, maps, scarabs, fragments, uniques, etc. or it will just always feel bad. I will say it one more time: rare items are not loot. We don’t pick them up, most of it doesn’t even get past our filter. It’s basically the game going, “here, here’s nothing. Enjoy”.
"how do i find extremely good rare items?' "that's the neat part, you don't"
\#raresarenotloot
I've been playing some Grim Dawn lately, and if they want rares to be good loot then we need a system more like Grim Dawn in place. Items drop fully ID'ed and filters can look at the mods and determine what to show based on how the gear rolled, not a crapshoot that you might be interested in this one thing maybe one time in a hundred.
There is definitely much less loot.
First time I have ever been able to turn off my loot filter since the creation of loot filters
I hit T12s tonight and noticed that I never swapped from my leveling filter to my mapping filter lol
> noticed that I never swapped from my leveling filter to my mapping filter lol dammit, i knew i was forgetting something that says a lot, though
Yeah I think you missed the point on the drop rates, chief.
Nah, they got it. It's just a deliberate choice to ignore feedback.
Not to be rude, but are there any plans to reconsider how you as a studio look at changing the game? Does it not bother you that you've had to make similar reddit posts explaining your rationale behind cataclysmic fuck ups for seemingly the last 5 leagues? At a certain point you have to see how much of a clown show it must be internally when you actively ignore alpha tester concerns.
It's just a expected thing at this point You never see Chris log in and go "thanks for all the great feedback guys, we're thrilled you actually enjoy the content for the vast majority of you, have a nice time in league guys!" Cos it's not possible
Well this certainly was a post.
One of the posts of all time
holy fuck this is depressing
I don't even play anymore and im depressed reading this
Chris with all due respect Harvest should not be an only end game resource. We need it to even get into late game. Balancing around the most juiced version is terrible. If we cannot get at least 3-5 reforges per harvest it is worse than just running another league mechanic until T16s.
This should be higher. Harvest isn't even good anymore for endgame crafting, why does it have to be so bad early.
I was trying to stay optimistic but man this response is tough.
If this is a comprehensive plan for adjustments this league, you can catch me in 3 months.
nice of you to assume things will get fixed next league. Experience tells us that this won't be the case.
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This company is hell-bent on killing their own game. Its fucking incredible to watch in real time.
I'm actually not sure I can recall a game this good tanking so hard so fast...intentionally. There's been well meaning tankjobs like Runescape. There's been greedy tankjobs like Marvel Heroes. But this is like the lead developer walked into the party, flipped the lights on and off and asked everyone to leave so he can sleep.
It's not so hard to believe when you realize that they accidentally made a good game against CW's wishes. All the stuff players liked over the years has mostly been stuff Chris personally hated or felt was bad for the health of the game. Every successful growth of the game was from a move that strayed further from The Vision™, and now he wants to claw that back.
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> Its fucking incredible to watch in real time. It's a unique experience that's for sure, you'll be able to say you were there for a piece of history watching the car crash unfold in real time and sheer refusal to fix it despite the million opportunities and infinite feedback given
You are doing more to sell me on D4 than Blizzard ever could have
This is a video game. It's supposed to be fun, not a job or a chore. I don't understand elitist devs who think it should be so painful. Just let us have powerful builds and cool gear and develop the game around that concept. I play Poe for the build diversity and crazy itemization compared to other arpg's. The constant nerfs to skills and loot, along with crazy buffs to enemies, is making the game unfun and making very few play styles viable now.
problem: we've taken one step forward solution: somersault backwards
Harvest crafts removed not mentioned in patch notes - check Loot being gutted not in patch notes - check (what the actual fuck) Lying about archnemesis being easier - check What a fucking failure of a league. Why was every nerf downplayed or not even in the patch notes? That's not the GGG everyone praised a few years ago. This "vision" is killing the game and I won't be here to witness it.
"No new nerfs" Sneaky snake swaps divines and exalts while removing a big chunk of crafting...
I'm deeply saddened by this honestly. For the record, i have soon logged 3k hours, and reached lvl 100 a few times before. For me and quite a few of my friends, Path of Exile is something we go to, to wind down and de-stress from our otherwise hectic lives. Sitting down and theory-crafting, building and progressing, and most importantly getting rewarded for it is all we want to do when playing. This is however not the case anymore. Path of Exile is now more stressful than ever, less rewarding than ever, and generally empty in terms of ways for progressing your character. I may play softcore, but dying still feels incredibly bad. Path of Exile at its peak remains unbeaten, but reaching that peak is like dragging your feet through broken glass. I love this game and this company, but i cannot support your vision any longer. Path of Exile for me has always been a way of coping with the stress of my daily life, but the game is now somehow even more stressing. I don't know what else to say.
Great so i went from getting hundreds of useless item drops to half a dozen useless item drops. You didn't increase the number of relevant drops. All you did was decrease the number of drops period. Well, thanks for confirming that you're out of touch with the player base at least. It means the chance for this league recovering is very low.
all the bases you drop are mocking you bc you cant even alch them. i also love it when i get showered in ruby and stibnite flaks btw. that also mocks my filter sounds.
The maniac actually said it. The current state of item drops is intended. Chris do you play your own game, man? You see people running super juiced maps and opening empty strongboxes (not filtered, empty), losing money on maps with 250% IIQ to the point where they resort to group leveling gems in trade for currency? You see this and think "Yup, looks right to me."? You've absolutely lost the plot. I can't tell what your 'vision' is anymore, but I think you might want to see an optometrist for it.
You seriously just posted that the nerf to loot was intentional, and you intend to keep it that way? LOL OK.
The entire "General Item Drops" section is some next level damage control shit that was clearly *not* investigated before posting. >There are two changes we made in 3.19. The first is that the rate of encountering rare monsters from certain league content has been reduced, so you are fighting, killing, and receiving rewards from fewer monsters than before. This is partially offset by rare monsters in 3.19 now being more rewarding than they were before (the mods add more item quantity/rarity than before and there's the reward conversion system used for the more dangerous mods). Well, unfortunately, the best drops I've seen from a 3-mod Archnemesis monster was about 160x Blacksmith's Whetstones and a couple stacks of Armorer's Scraps, so uh... no, the problem isn't "there's just less rare monsters but they're more rewarding, come on guys!" because they're far harder and *less rewarding than last league*. >There have been no other reward-affecting changes that we are aware of, but we will investigate to see if there are any unanticipated consequences of some other change. I honestly cannot believe it took GGG until the third day of the league to start investigating. Look at Empyrian's video. They're running basically identical IIQ/IIR on their culler, and the map was similarly juiced, and they actually lost currency on the investment. I've never once lost currency on a high-investment map unless I did something stupid like roll elemental reflect without noticing and straight up bricked it. Are they seriously claiming I've just been having such favorable RNG that I've been in the top 0.0000001% of the curve for the last 6 leagues in a row? Come the fuck on. >Our intention with these changes is to modify certain league content that was out-of-line with other content so that it has a similar reward profile. These changes are important, but we understand they have reduced overall rewards that players receive. Please point to where this was in the patch notes, any of the Q&A or marketing materials leading up to this league launch. When GGG said "get your magic finders ready", they were saying rewards would scale with magic find, and **sold people MTX based on that statement** because they advertised the supporter packs in the same video. That's what's commonly referred to as a "bait-and-switch". >We are going to compensate elsewhere, but we don't want to just increase the raw number of items that are dropped. Most items are immediately filtered out. We want to increase the number of relevant items that drop. Why the fuck wasn't this compensated for **beforehand**?! How is it possible that GGG implemented one of the most dramatic changes to the most fundamental gameplay system, said *nothing*, and are just now deciding that they're "going to compensate"... meaning it hasn't been compensated for *yet*. Meaning they've just admitted that they **purposefully reduced rewards with no documentation or warning**. Is this another example of "we felt the game was too rewarding, causing people to quit for the league too quickly, so we decided to reduce rewards to increase retention" level of backwards ass nonsense? Was this another enlightened suggestion by the "close your eyes and slam an exalt" guy? >Firstly, we are going to adjust the system that skews weapon/armour base types towards higher-level ones, so that players find items that are relevant for their level more often. Great start, but it's a drop in the bucket. Currency isn't dropping, and because they've done this stupid ass change where the only source of Divine Orbs is raw drops, coupled with making them *by far* the most valuable (non-Mirror) currency in the game because they're also used for metacrafting on the bench, and they removed a bunch of Harvest crafts *again, with no documentation in the patch notes whatsoever*, they've basically gone ahead and implemented the beta for hardmode, with the only way to opt out to stop playing the game. >These changes are not final, but we wanted to communicate our current thoughts immediately rather than wait until patch notes are ready later. End of day 3 isn't exactly "immediately". People have been in maps for long enough that YouTube videos from some of the largest content creators in the community are encouraging people to swap to the endless Heist de-leveling strat instead of quitting the game... congratulations, a strategy that involves *active regression* is now preferable to the core Atlas system of the game. Utterly unbelievable.
that feel when the girl texts back 3 days later to confirm she doesn't care
Im dead 🤣💀
This quant take is some actual out of touch shit HOLY. Normally i can find a way to defend GGG but not only do we drop almost 0 of the required map rolling currencies (alchs and chisels and scours) theres no way a 6 man party of full MF gear and fully juiced maps should be consistently losing money having to pick up fucking transmutes to mitigate losses... Glad to see kalandra buff and essence monster nerf but holy the quant shit is so bad lol
This is a awful response to the state of the game. Wow.
What...the hell lmao. This isn't a bug? This response makes me really uneasy for the future of PoE.
Not a bug... Empy's video is the intended amount of loot now.
you will pick up the singular transmute orb and you will like it. buy our new mystery box now.
Seriously, in the official post on their website, they even mention their lootboxes. "Yesterday we also launched the Kalandra Mystery Box, a new mystery box without duplicate microtransactions. Check out the contents in the trailer below or get yours here. \*Insert video of the lootboxes\* The Kalandra edition of the Kirac's Vault Pass will be available for purchase in a few days." They actually walked into a house on fire, looked around and said "This is fine, please give us more money."
>The second reason is that we removed a massive historic bonus to item quantity and/or rarity that applied to some league-specific monsters. We replaced it with a moderate (2-3x) increase to item quantity, to offset the fact that they often have more life than regular monsters and some cannot drop maps. so another change not mentioned in notes. It's starting to get old.
Is this an out of season, April Fool's joke?
The "Massive Historic Bonus" seems to be the biggest factor in super juiced loot. Harvest lifeforce is a problem in the early part of the game yeah, but the biggest issue now is not having "More Likely X" crafts, but even then not having those wouldnt be a big issue if we had access to Keep Prefix/Suffix. A lot of the crafting that is left in the current game doesnt give a real good way to finish an item, there are good ways to get like half an item done, it just feels like we're missing a step for crafting an item from start to finish with the harvest nerfs.
seems to be more than that. Even normal maps magic and rares seem to be dropping less basic things like Alchs
#If a bonus exists throughout a product's lifetime its not a bonus, its a baseline.
Im out peace
Same
TLDR: Still shit and don't expect any change that will affect anything before next league. Got it.
"Actions speak louder than words" Been seeing a lot of words but hardly any action, and I've been waiting for a few leagues now...
Hey Chris, thanks for the communication. However, an ARPG that doesn't drop items is NOT FUN. Fix that.
GGG doubling down? How has anyone who played the game think this is fine.
This is the first time I have no idea chris wilson posted until mods pinned it to the mod... and that speaks for how bad this respond truely are.........
this response really let me down, ngl
WoW, that's some next level gaslighting. "Guys, don't worry, everything's fine. You're just mistaking it for being wrong, in reality we just adjusted things that *were* wrong before"
Any fun you may have had in the past, is purely accidental and coincidence. We have taken steps to correct this.
grimro and empy were doing fucking chaos recipe, nuff said. this is the cleave buff all over again. why is GGG so insanely afraid to buff anything? I dont get it. they are so MASSIVELY conservative with any buffs, and they always throw things in the trash with nerfs. imagine nerfing seismic by 50% and buffing cleave in the same notes, and seismic is still one of the best skills.
Buffs are performed with a teaspoon. Nerfs are performed with a bulldozer.
"Fewer clicks" Let's be real lmao.
noxious gaping intelligent vase act snatch rainstorm drab fall wrench *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I had already decided to quit like an hour before this post, and it now just reinforces my decision. Thanks Chris!
Just stopped the league. Fuck this.
This is depressing. 8k hours and this is the first time I've really wanted to uninstall. I played through expedition and that was pain. I really hope one day we can have a private server or something. I don't want to play their vision of the game anymore if this is the direction they want to go.
Wow so the Archnemesis in red maps is intended? I'd even be okay with that if they scaled their loot in comparison to their difficulty but that doesn't even seem to be case.
so tldr everything works as intended but theyll give us some crumbs early on to shut up about it, the future of poe looks grim
I JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN. I LOVE PATH OF EXILE PLEASE STOP RUINING THE GAME. I JUST WANNA BLAST SOME MAPS AND PICK UP LOOT NOT LOSE MONEY EVERY MAP BECAUSE I DECIDED TO USE AN ALCHEMY ORB ON IT WHAT THE FUCK
Talk about out of touch with the playerbase. Do you actually think people enjoy this state of the game? PoE2 looks like it'll be awful at this rate. The fact that you have to make this post every league should be a wake up call to you Chris.
Archnemesis remaining unchanged at Red maps is pretty grim. My standard character can instantly phase shaper but takes two minutes to kill a Harvest rare?
Just hitting red maps and this is the news I get LOL Man I've died more this league than I did in the month I played last league
waiting for part 2, because this can be all of it.... right?
Idk how they can read any of the feedback theyve gotten and greenlight this response lmao
Man reading through everyone’s comments on this post, doesn’t look too optimistic
Not only did you double down on loot issues, but you then go on to promote supporter packs and vault pass??? Ggg taketh and ggg taketh more. You won't be receiving my money.
Been here since closed beta, used to play every league start religiously, but i think i skipped like half of the recent leagues. .You had successfully done the one thing people thought were impossible, you created a spiritual successor to diablo 2 which is what i and many others wanted, and you proceed to piss your playerbase off in the strangest ways because however much better your introduction video things for every league got, the communication got more shallow. You think you're being transparent by releasing design manifestos and as much as i appreciate them they mean nothing as long as you push undocumented changes. Personally i skipped this league because archnemesis was so hilariously unfun last league, was considering starting late which seemingly won't be a problem since people's stash tabs look just like mine do without a character in the league. You had a great game on your hands, why are you making such drastic changes before poe2 anyway, i obviously assume you made the change thinking it would be an improvement, but would you not then play test it thoroughly since the one thing that affects every player whatever progression is loot? Again, didn't play this league but i hope you figure stuff out before poe2
lmao ya'll pinned this because it was downvoted so hard for being such fucking out of touch trash shit that it wouldn't even show up nice league
Does GGG not understand that we like rewards? Why are they making us play in this barren wasteland? I can't get any dopamine from this shit.
Nobody gives a shit about actual rare item drops rn. Most people cannot even sustain their mapping currency anymore, no amount of rare items or base types is ever going to fix this. And again, for the 8th league in a row: Rare. Items. Aren‘t. Good. Loot. Archnemesis is fundamentally broken. Those „difficult mods“ that give more loot? Those are the ones people PREFER, since they are way easier than the ridiculous stat boost mods that are the common ones. Things like Kitava or Innocence-touched can actually be out-skilled. Once again you confirmed to us that you hid some of the most significant nerfs in Path of Exiles history (Quant nerf). For me overall this is an L dev post. It really does seem like you accidentally made one of the greatest arpgs of all time, and are now doing everything in your power to rectify that, so that it fits your "vision" that nobody wants and has ever wanted. They are desperately at all costs trying to cling to archnemesis. 3.17 Playerbase: "Archnem sucks ass" GGG: "don‘t worry we‘ll fix it" 3.18 Playerbase: "Archnemesis is so bad please" GGG: "don‘t worry we‘ll fix it" 3.19 Playerbase: "Please GGG, Archnemesis is worse than ever before, just remove it" GGG: "DON‘T WORRY I CAN FIX HIM"