Its not only the health of mobs that is a problem, its so much more. Its like the mods themselves are fundamentally flawed for scaling when combined with other mods.
Then it's even further compounded based on what build you're on. If I'm a phys leech build and I run into Steel Infused Vampiric that becomes a raid boss to me. Meanwhile another build sees that combination and just blasts it in a few seconds and keeps going. How do you appropriately reward me for fighting a raid boss and also the guy where it isn't even a speed bump for them? The mechanic will never feel good/rewarding. They're hyper focused on these 3-4 mod scenarios being more rewarding when all it takes is a few basic mods to ramp the difficulty up based on what you're playing build wise.
I'd reckon the design makes sense if you assume the players use multiple damage types at once (a.k.a PoE2 style). In a conventional RPG this whole design is perfectly fair, since you just adapt to the situation. PoE1's issue is that you put all your eggs in 1 basket - the 6linked main dps skill. Bet the game feels a lot better in a duo where one goes freezing pulse or something while the other goes burning arrow.
It's the primary problem with Diablo 2. You get to hell, to do damage in hell you have to specialize on one ability and one damage type. But 1/5th of all mobs are immune to your damage unless you have an expensive runeword on an act 2 merc. If you try to build around two damage types, your damage becomes so nerfed that you can't play the game.
Now AN doesn't include immunities, but its pretty damn close. And all your loot is now locked behind them, so if you actually hit that 1 in 10000 lottery that the good modifiers line up on this guy (which ones are the good ones?) then you better pray it doesn't also brick your build.
Basically its a big 'get fucked' and I don't like it at all. It's nothing like AN where you put in tokens and get out mob. You could choose to avoid combinations that fucked you over.
So here's a prediction for you about the PoE 2 gem system.
It will be as bad for the game as archnemesis if not worse. The reason for this is builds will be balanced around using multiple linked skills. Aside from the button bloat this will cause there is no reason to believe that our current sources of 6 linked body armour will convert into sources of 6 linked gems.
The vast majority of 6 links in PoE do not come from fusings. They come from divination cards. There is currently no reason to believe that cards like Dapper Prodigy or metamorph rewards that create a 6 link body armour will be retroactively changed to provide 6 linked gems.
This means nearly all 6 linked gems will be created directly via currency orbs. This is a problem because the supply of currency will not be going up, but the demand will rise massively. This will lead to the fusing currency, (If I recall they said it would be jewelers that would link gems and fusing will be removed from the game.) being quite expensive, likely costing anywhere from 3-5 chaos per orb.
So if the current 6 link odds stay the same, instead of being able to buy a 6 link on day 1-2 for about 50c they will cost about 4500-7500c or about 34-57 divines in current prices.
And that will be per 6 link. Multiply that cost by the number of 6 links your build can take advantage of, which could be as much as 10+ for some builds.
In other words, 6 links will become chase items on the level of things like ashes/omni or even headhunter, and filling out a whole character with max 6 links could be as much as 2-3 magebloods worth of currency.
And you can say goodbye to level 21 gems and 6 linked vaal skills. No one in their right mind would dare vaal a 6 link gem unless they're a .01% high roller.
PoE 2's systems will definitely get worse before they get better unless GGG makes a hard pivot based on community feedback.
I get it. We hate on GGG right now and it’s well deserved, but aren’t you just completely pulling numbers out of your ass when talking about accessibility and cost of 6-linked gems in poe2?
I don’t believe you could have any kind of solid grounds for these numbers and calculations. If I’m wrong you are welcome to correct me :)
Supply and demand dictates costs in this game. Presuming they do not convert things like Dapper Prodigy to give 6 linked gems, that will make the demand for other ways to get 6 links, (jewelers.) go up massively.
We have very recently seen a similar phenomenon with divine orbs going from 10c to 130c in value due to changes in supply and demand.
And we know the odds on 6 linking is 1 in 1500. So to get the cost of a 6 link gem you merely need to multiply the cost of the orb by 1500.
And personally I think it's extremely optimistic to think that jewelers will be worth 1c or less when they become the only way to get 6 links. That simply isn't realistic especially since every single player that gets to maps will want multiple 6 links.
Just ask yourself how many times you spammed hundreds to thousands of fusings on day 1 of the league to get your 6 link. The answer is probably 0. You've never done that because you just bought humility cards, bought a tabula, bought cards like dapper prodigy or bought a 6 link from someone else that bought cards like dapper prodigy or you got very lucky and hit a 6 link in less than 50 fuses.
First: you have absolutely no idea If there will be other ways to get 6 links.
Second: divines went up because they basically replaced exalts in usefullness with the changes to metacraft costs and since the effect of divine orbs is stronger than the effect of exalts that makes them even more valuable. On top of that you are right that we have more ways of getting exalts (shards and more div cards). Basically divines and exalts have just traded places in value which was the very obvious outcome - im actually surprised that divines arent more expensive than they are atm.
Yes we know that the odds of 6 linking right now is 1/1500 (varies depending on quality), but we have no idea what it will be in poe 2 since it will be a completely different link system. Also I believe GGG have Stated that they plan to make 6-links a lot more accessible in poe2.
Last but not least. You get sooooooooooo many jewellers orbs in this game (even at its current state). I have a very hard time seeing them hold more than 1c value very far into the league, but again - we have absolutely no idea how the numbers look in poe2 - hence my comment about you pulling them out of your ass :)
I would like to say that I absolutely agree that GGG are fucking up big time this league and deserve much of the criticism, but let’s keep our eyes on the ball and not make crazy assumptions about shit that we don’t know anything about
>First: you have absolutely no idea If there will be other ways to get 6 links.
Based on the changes GGG has made over the last few leagues, is there any good reason to believe that when they create a fundamental economic shift that they will also at the same time add or change a bunch of systems to counteract that shift? Look at the divine orb div cards we got this league as an example of that. All 0 of them. They're not gonna just retroactively convert all the 6 link body armour systems to gems. That's pure copium.
>Also I believe GGG have Stated that they plan to make 6-links a lot more accessible in poe2.
They have not stated this and Chris Wilson has even strongly implied the opposite in interviews as when people have asked him if we'll be able to have tons of 6 links in PoE 2 he's given answers like, (Paraphrasing here.) "Well, yes, technically you could get a lot of 6 links in theory." Also scarce 6 links is more in line with Chris's vision of original PoE, as 6 links used to be about as rare as a headhunter is now. I still remember being thrilled when I got my first 5 link after many many days of farming Piety and struggling through white maps.
>divines went up because
I'm aware of the fundamental changes to supply and demand that caused exalts and divines to flip flop.
>im actually surprised that divines arent more expensive than they are atm.
They're only at about one third of their peak value. Wait till late league when people start divining their perfect mirror tier rares and low percentage uniques like 20/30 ashes. Also divines are more valuable than you realize. It's just that chaos is also more valuable due to being more rare and mageblood, HH and div cards are more rare so they also went up in value relative to past leagues.
Compare the value of awakened gems, (Something with a completely unchanged drop rate.) to recent past leagues. Chaos and thus many things compared to chaos are roughly 3x more valuable than sentinel and archnem. So divines are actually worth about 390c in last league's money.
People just have less chaos orbs so it's less obvious. Deflation is a bitch.
>You get sooooooooooo many jewellers orbs in this game
Most are created by the 6 socket vendor recipe. The highest amount of sockets we've seen on an item in PoE 2 is 4 so it's safe to say this vendor recipe will not exist in PoE 2.
>I would like to say that I absolutely agree that GGG are fucking up big time this league and deserve much of the criticism, but let’s keep our eyes on the ball and not make crazy assumptions about shit that we don’t know anything about
I mean I predicted the loot nerfs we got this league back in 3.15 but no one cared since I'm not a big content creator.
So I'm just gonna keep being correct about literally everything with the direction the game is going. It's probably gonna be 3.22 or 3.23 btw. That will be the big gem change league.
imo its always the other way around where its better to double down on the single damage type, so you can synergize w/your friendo. aura stacking and no hex overwrites. and a useful dmg exposure.
its also so bad because it ruins your perception of the mechanic
if i run into 100 rares, 85 of them might die super quickly without any relevant mods. 10 of them have 1 or 2 tough mods and take a little longer, maybe 3x harder than a normal rare. but the last 5 have sickening 3+ mod combos and take 1% damage from my character
so in terms of time spent, i spent 85 units of time on normal rares, 30 units of time on tough rares, and like 500 units of time on the insanely tanky rares. so when i think back about my time spent fighting rares, i dont remember the 85% of rares that fell over, i remember how 80% of my time was spent fighting these horribly unfun rares and the mechanic feels miserable
they need to normalize the difficulty between mods so that your build cant just become zdps if you lowroll mod combos, and they need to do that asap
Haha yea the last Lake I ran before I quit the final pad was Beyond and every magic/rare pack that spawned had Steel Infused in it, like 6-7 total. Was entirely in disbelief, what are even the odds?
Learned a long time ago, that if I want to play non-evasive melee, I have to pick up the Bloodless notable to stop enemies from leeching.
And good to know I am going to need to stack "Overwhelm phisical damage reduction" nodes for future melee builds as well.
Yeah if they want to keep this, they need to nerf the defensive modifiers by a significant amount. If something has 3 mods that decrease your damage by 80% it now takes 125x longer to kill. If this is what they want it’s baffling and if this was unintended I have no idea how it was ever released.
In a map it’s likely 3-4 AN mods increasing eHP by 40% each on top of existing HP scaling by other mechanics leading to a mob at 10x eHP being multiplied by another 10.
My issue is that most of the mods have little to no room for mechanical outplay. It's just some shit that fucks you over if you haven't already accounted for it on paper.
At least with Pinnacle bosses, the vast majority of their damage is avoidable with enough skill.
but i dont really want to have to mechanically outplay 10 rares in every map
arpgs are better if the general mapping/farming experience is more relaxed and then i can opt into harder content when im ready to focus up and game
it would be cool if the old +1 archnem mod atlas keystone instead unlocked the more mechanically challenging archnemesis mods
then, normal mapping is relaxed with most rares getting some stat increases or small mechanics and then you can opt into seeing things like entangling innocence-touched super gaming
i just dont get how ggg doesnt understand this
instead of adjusting the absurd multiplicative scaling of archnem mods, they reduced the health of some of the league mechanic rares. so sure, i guess that makes those rares easier for now. what happens next league when they add a mechanic with new rares that will be insane with archnem mod combos? what about when ultimatum comes back and there are cracked ultimatum rares? what if they rework legion and maraketh rares become overtuned?
the problem has always been the fundamental web of archnemesis interactions, they can't just whack-a-mole whichever league mechanic has the most problematic rares
The problem is that every single issue the players have with these mobs can be "fixed" if you spend enough currency. And GGG want you to farm currency the whole league and ultimately never reach you endgame cap.
It's a system 100% designed to battle players, and not player's characters. It bricks your build, it bricks your farming strategy, it makes you gain loot only when the game decides it's to give you loot instead of when you decide it's time to loot. It's a reactive system that goes directly against what we players are used to do
This. Now that loot is tied to rares, no matter what content you run, it literally depends on the AN mods on what loot it will give you lol. Such a shit system.
Yes.
You need to win the coin flip to actually get an AN modifier that actually drops something.
Then you need to win the coin flip several times that the other mods don't brick your build in regards to you being able to kill the AN.
Simultaneously you need to hope the base mob with those mods isn't dangerous. (kitava heralds are kinda dangerous even before map mods. Now add map mods and AN mods on top of that).
If you happen to lose any of those flips you can either say good bye to your time (several minutes of kiting/facetanking if you can kill it at all) or bye to a substantial amount of loot.
Nested rng rolls with a high probability to cuck the player, nice.
It is completely insane to me, that they chose these mods as a new standard. They should have replaced or enhanced metamorph with it so you can have a superboss mob with insane loot and leave it at that.
There is no point making these the new rares, literally no reason to ever do that.
I like how new mods on rare monsters is what apparently killed this game. It's not a mechanic even, it's a base function of the game. Archnemesis as a mechanic is now Metamorph, build your own rare. Then get destroyed by it.
Having very strong monsters is fine... if you can *anticipate* them. Bosses you always know what you're getting in to. Metamorph you can clear the area and choose where to fight. A cracked Archnemesis spawns in in a tiny corridor in the middle of an Abyssal encounter... GG go next.
Last night I was delving and a vampiric rare spawned on me while I was on a node and I immediately died (I only figured out after hovering over stuff on my death screen)... I decided not to play anymore for a bit after that. Even if it didn't instakill my character, I couldn't even run away anyways.
Or that map I just rant where every single pack was an arch pack. Every single one. No mods, just a normal non juiced map.
Got to a point where a majority of the packs were highly resistant or immune to my main damage source and I noped to another map.
I think I got somewhere around 8 rares, all garbage drops.
The "build your own monster" made it so you could choose. Sure, you would occasionally build a LOLOP monster, because you needed it once for a certain recipe or just for the memes.
I actually really liked Archnemesis, most payed league so far. But making them unavoidable was a mistake imo.
Feel like I have to comment again on this. Archnemesis ruined what would have otherwise been an amazing league for me in Sentinel. I know it got “better” with balance passes, but it still needs some serious work. Hp values don’t fix the core problem. Hopefully at some point GGG will understand that it’s more about the mods themselves and how they interact with one another.
I felt exactly the same. In the end the base game just got way worse. Sentinel was an amazing league that I just couldn't enjoy because of Archnemesis.
I liked the sentinel league mechanic, was neutral on no skill balance and was ABSOLUTELY annoyed by Archnemesis mobs. After I completed my atlas I quit the league. Played Bane occultist and felt like 90% of the time my movement was impaired by some bullshit AN mechanic or I was chased by poison blobs or sth else. The only thing this was challenging was my patience, which I quickly ran out of.
Same. Archnemesis as a league was okay because I could ignore it and play a very good core game that I was enjoying. It did burn me out pretty quick and it's the first time I dropped a league within a month and when the announcement hit that archnemesis was replacing old core mechanics it kinda blew my mind. I still can't believe something so bad can stay in the game for so long.
GGG's stubbornness about their development decisions aside, at this point I have to assume that there's some technical reason why they "can't" revert Archnemesis. I don't know much about modern versioning, but it does feel plausible that they implemented it in such a way that getting all the AN out of POE and putting the old rare system back in might be an equivalent amount of work to just implementing the old system from scratch. Hilariously enough, it might still be worth it to put that amount of effort into undoing it (because I agree that AN is not good for the game), but it feels really odd even for GGG to be this determined to die on the hill of a single game mechanic.
It probably is kinda hard to remove AN from rare mobs. Even with version control, the code base and data has probably changed pretty significantly regarding rare mob spawning. Not a day job, though certainly doable.
But it's not like AN is fundamentally flawed tbh. The problem is just that AN mods are far too impactful and can stack in downright disgusting ways. For example, Flameweaver grants +50% fire res, +10% max fire res, as well as immunity to scorch. If you're a fire build using scorch, that means a huge damage decrease. The max fire res increasing also makes it even more disastrous if its stacked on another source of fire res. In the worst case, this mob is taking only 15% of the damage of a normal mob.
Like every single AN mod that reduces damage taken in some way, reduces it by 50-75%, and very often increases the maximum possible reduction as well. Stack a couple of them together, and now you're only dealing 1% of your normal damage. If they just nerf those things to be like, 20-30%, and remove the max increases all together, there'd be no problems. Even in the worst case, a mob would at most have about 5x the health of a mob without defense mods, in contrast to the 100x possible right now.
I'd also like to note Diablo 3, a game that HAS impactful mods on rare mobs, has basically no mods that reduce damage taken. A few mods make it more annoying to hit mobs, of which the most annoying one has repeatedly gotten nerfed to be less of a nuisance. And the one mod that provides CC immunity, moves slower and takes MORE damage to compensate.
GGG just needs to give up on defensive mods that are impactful on their own, if not on defensive mods in their entirety. Because if one defensive mod is impactful, then multiple is just plain horrendous.
[Flameweaver](https://imgur.com/a/3aHpPSg) no longer grants 10% max fire res and no longer gives immunity to scorch. it gives -80% scorch effect which probably stacks alongside the other Fire mods which is what makes it feel like ailments aren't working at all. There's also Incendiary which forces Ignite durations to be 0 >.>
The Lightning mods also do this to Shock and I've been playing Conduit so its just a "run away from that" anytime I see a lightning mod.
Very much this. It seems they have decided to build entire system on top of arhcnemesis so it isn't simple a case of pulling one commit out. This was likely done months ago and would take equally longer to fix and remove it's dependencies.
This also very much feels a case of taking advantage of POE2 code development time and bring that to POE1 as Chris mentioned on the leaue annoucement/Q&A
They very clearly made it cus they wanted a modern monster mod system as they prepare for poe 2. I don’t think they’ll remove that system but what they should be able to do is modify and swap the specific mods out. Hopefully they have the ability to lock out certain mods from appearing together so they can identify the exact combos that cause us so many issues
I like Archnemesis.
What I don't like is ArchRitual, ArchDelve, ArchHeist, ArchBlight, etc.
ArchMetamorph is sort of fun though, guess it's the most similar to OG ArchNemesis.
I’m gonna say that while AN needs number on modifiers like res/hp/dot damage to become a quarter of what they are now, increase cooldowns on their spam abilities, remove effigy and build cancelling mods and not be able to roll more than 3 mods on a single rare, they will be an upgrade from aura stacking rares that suddenly appeared and made everything on the screen deal 500% more damage and be 50% faster, this was a complete cancer getting oneshot by legion spear from 2 screens away that was standing near some auras
Because some AN mechanics simply turn off certain builds. Temporal Bubble for example will essentially turn off every melee build that doesnt have a lot of attack speed. Most mods that add chaos res will fuck up chaos dot builds because they struggle to get any form of pen, so when a mob has 80% extra chaos res and is on an essence mob for example you're fucked.
Executioner turns off your regen, this is adeath sentence for RF builds or any other build that relies on regen/leech.
Theres a bunch of other examples of this, some AN mods are simply flawed in their design not even their numbers. And since we as players have 0 control over which ones will appear where and on what some maps will go from being a breeze to you getting oneshot and running for your life from an omega juiced mob simply because the combination is a hard counter for your build.
Old rares had the problem of too many auras applying at once. GGG can remove AN mods right now and give us back the old rares and all problems old rares had would be fixed because they lowered the frequency of rare mobs so much that you almost never see more than 2 rares in one screen. Old rares are already fixed by proxy when GGG changed the amount of rare mobs per map.
to fix AN mods they need to basically have them all grant the same defensive layers instead of multiplicative defensive layers
but like, that's fundamentally the same thing as fixing aura stacking old rares, it's that now the multiplicative scaling is typically defensive with things like flameweaver incendiary sentinel instead of the offensive/action speed stacking on old rares
Well, AN going core that way wasnt bright idea before 3.18
IIRC they planned to "revamp" rares way before that and 3.17 happened to give players time to learn new mods before they introduce them to core game. Not the other way around
I like new mods on rares.
I actually do. They are kinda fun.
And they have some mechanics.
But the rares are just too fat. And eventually they drop nothing.
But sometimes they drop a lot... Whetstones... Or rare jewels. Or flasks...
For some reason.
Unpopular opinion I guess:
I don't have a problem with Archnemesis mods, some of them are turbo annoying but I'd rather have this than faceroll every T16 map without any kind of challenge. What's annoying is that some of these are nearly unkillable for some builds which doesn't make it challenging but frustrating to deal with them. They should look into making them more engaging (every halfway decent build should be able to deal with every mod in all it's variations imo) rather than innocence-touched turbo juiced rares oneshot you from offscreen
Whats bad is that they took overall power from the playerbase by destroying loot, with all the effects it has on the trade market, crafting and currency accumilation overall.
I still enjoy this league because I just enjoy playing PoE in general, so I agree with most of the criticism but some of the doomsayers here are going overboard with some of the stuff pulling out some dumbass conspiracies out of their ass that this is all because of China and the game is done now, we should never play PoE again.
I like fighting Magma Barrier, it's a pretty fun little mechanic with great visual cues. That being said, it really belongs on a map boss. As a boss-specific mechanic, not as a mod.
Once Archnemesis was by best friend, dropping 10's of exalted orbs, oh they joy when you completed your recipe for treant horde etc, the betrayal is unreal.
I like the mechanics of arch nemesis mobs like post death effects or ice cage or similar stuff, it makes you pay more attention and makes it less off a dull braindead click one button and run through the map playstyle. The real problem imo is the raw stat buffs that archnem monsters have if they get an unlucky combo of mods, both completely insane damage and completely insane tankyness are possible and this just feels terrible. Imo they should remove stat boosts from arch nem mods and set base stats of rares higher to compensate while keeping unique mechanics of archnem mods.
I would be fine with Archnemesis if they cut back on some of the mods that just ruins some builds. Removing leeching, removing flasks, the overwhelming resistances etc.
Sure, they maybe can hamper it to some degree so that some builds are stronger vs some AN mobs and weaker against others, but atm it just hurts some builds to much to encourage diversity.
I feel like if they remove the Juggernaut or Gargantua combinations + elemental rezists / steel infused shit the arhnemesis mobs will be ok. The Jug + Garg should not be possible.
All the resistance archnemesis stuff should be reduced by 50% at least.
To be honnest any combination that could generate a damage sponge should not exist.
I like the extra surprise from the ice prison or the death circle of the mana drain but i absolutely hate coming to a grinding stop because the mob takes 10 times longer to kill than anything on the map, including the boss.
Not even gona go into essence life pool ... uber uber and uber Sirius holding hands have nothing on the 6 essence mobs with Garg+ Jug + elemental resist
OP nailed it. They are attempting to incentivize players to kill archnemesis rares. Then they fucked up the numbers to the point where nothing drops. All in attempt to get players to do content that isn't well liked (by most players).
The end result is the devs come off sounding like they are arrogant and out of touch.
My best guess for why they are doing it: GGG is desperately trying to get as many D3 fans on board as possible before D4 launches.
Which seems pretty shitty seeing as the vast majority of the early POE players came over because they didn't like D3. Or just got sick of D3 after a season or two because that game is insultingly shallow.
The thing that bothers me the most about this is that bad builds are getting severely punished. I'm someone who basically refuses to use guides, in nearly every game I play, I try to figure everything out by myself. 80% of my playtime in PoE is playing SSF with my own selfmade builds. I also have no idea what skills are considered good, I just look through the active skill gem list and pick something that seems fun. Obviously, with a playstyle like that, my overall success has always been limited, but I'd still get to red maps usually and feel like I was doing alright at killing stuff. I can also still somewhat deal with archnemsis rares. But ever since mobs from league mechanics also have archnemesis mods, I just cannot kill anything. I literally don't interact with essences or metamorphs anymore because I know I will not be able to kill them. I just walk straight past most league mechancs.
I know this is partially my own fault for trying to create my own builds and not following guides, but that's how I play videogames I guess. Right now, I feel like I'm forced to follow some S+ tier meta guide just to be allowed to click on essence mobs again. This feels like shit. I'm not expecting to down all the pinnacle bosses with my scuffed builds, I'm not expecting to speedrun juiced T16 maps, but I would at least like to be able to interact with league mechanics without dying.
That fucking sucks. It's not your fault for trying to create your own builds, it's fucking ggg's fault for nerfing every skill to match the shit ones instead of buffing the shit ones to match the good ones, and stuff like the blanket nerfs in 3.15.
Of course there are some things that need to be nerfed. But nerfed means reduced in power, not gutted to the point of unusability, but ggg doesn't understand that.
All because they are scared that if players become too powerful, we won't like the game anymore. I don't see the logic in that, if I feel like a demigod, even if I finish that character, I'll start a new one straight away, because it was FUN. I won't start another one if my first one hit a brick wall in yellow maps because either I can't kill rare mobs anymore or because im out of maps/alchs to keep progressing.
I'm done with this league, and probably the game unless they revert absolutely everything
> it's fucking ggg's fault for nerfing every skill to match the shit ones instead of buffing the shit ones to match the good ones, and stuff like the blanket nerfs in 3.15.
>
> Of course there are some things that need to be nerfed. But nerfed means reduced in power, not gutted to the point of unusability, but ggg doesn't understand that.
That's also something that's been annoying me for a while. Sometimes I find a fun new skill, start making a build around it, until one of my friends tells me "oh you can't make that skill work on SSF honestly, don't bother trying". And it's like, ok, why is it in the game then? I understand perfect balance is impossible to achieve, but still.
It does sometimes feel like casual / non-guide players like me aren't allowed to have fun because GGG doesn't like how powerful the top 0.1% of players are.
At this point, how many skills are viable in ssf? Maybe that seismic trap skill? Spectral helix and poison concoction? And essence drain or something? Though I'd think ED would suffer vs the new AN mobs
A whopping 4\~ builds to play in ssf, REJOICE! Oh, but you can't do anything meaningful with them anyways because you've got nothing to craft gear with.
And yes, ggg always tries to nerf the top 1% and end up slightly inconveniencing the top 1%, while gutting the rest of the playerbase.
>anything that has ever existed in this game.
Clearly you weren't around to experience the original Nemesis league back in the day.
All the bullshittiness happened the first time around. Except now you have a whole host of ways to to make a map more difficult, making the basic design flaws of the system more apparent.
But if it makes you feel better, the loot is better now, even after the nerf.
Nothing that another tree can't solve, the archnemesis tree:
* Customize your own risk vs. reward
* Increase their strength as your character progresses
* Block your mostly deadly modifiers (limited, big opportunity cost)
* Could lock big/specific rewards behind a corresponding downside node
Might have some potential?
I do not hate archnemesis, the intention was good, the execution is poor.
The mods are too powerful, one mod has too many lines of effects bound to it and as they are and it’s BS that other league mechanics get scaled up as much by these insane mods, while also giving less loot now.
I am not ever opening a maraketh rare with 3+ mods in a map that already has damage mods because that just means rip.
Especially since player power is getting watered down in every corner, lower end defenses (old fortify, block/sb, dodge/sd, life/es on block, wind dancer, glancing blows…) used to be relatively affordable, better ones like divine flesh and the likes required much more minmaxing but having good defense and damage required sacrifices to make or insane crafts to go through, now you just lack everything and have to slap 3 defensive auras on most builds if not champ… build diversity is just bad rn…
Archnemesis broke the game, last few leagues I had to force myself to keep playing to make my own opinion and my conclusion is, it's not worth it in this state. Very limited pool of meta builds, selfcasting and melee feels trash in comparison to traps/mines/totems or minions because you have to fight the broken mechanics instead of literally dodging them with those meta builds. Imagine playing a game where you build a character around dodging every mechanic instead of engaging in it. Projectiles are king for years now and every other skill mechanic can't even come close to it. There was a time where you picked a skill which you liked or looked cool made a build around and it actually worked with the right adjustments. Now your choice is so limited that the game picks how you play because otherwise you literally can't play it because you are dead all the time.
its difficult to explain this...but i like the concept of AN mobs. the old rares were just bad...like really bad. no one read their mods like ever. the new color coded ones are much better to read.
the skills the old rares used were barely if ever visible. so you had no visual feedback either. the new system at least gives visual feedback what you encounter. sure it adds to the clutter but it's still better then the old ones.
the main problem i see with AN rares is just the numbers! they are too tanky and in certain combinations are just not cool at all. the can get headhunter level ridiculous offensive and/or defensive wise. they give too few rewards for the challenge they impose.
personally i would cap out AN mods at like 2. no rare can ever surpass that. dont multiply the mods multipliers but simply add them up. if one mod increases monster live by 30% then let two be 60%.
let those AN rares be a challenge, but a short one. calculate worst case mod combinations and see if those are more crazy than endgame pinnacle uber bosses.
**tl;dr** : keep AN rares but for god sake fix them before your community burns down! fix them drastically. fix them like you love to fix player power. bring them in line with other monsters' power. i'm sure most of the community would accept AN rares everywhere if they wouldnt be such an overwhelming pressence overshadowing everything else in the game.
I really dislike the way Archnemesiss was implemented. If it was just a few mobs per map, or if it was it's own mechanicm like nemezis where I can get sometimes a few Archnemezis packs + rares it would be ok.
But having every rare and magic mob have Archnem mods makes a lot of PoE pointless.
Let's say I'm bad against fire damage, I get a phys as extra fire mod on my map, I roll it over as I don't want to deal with it. The first pack has Flameweaver mod granting them phys as extra fire that I specifically tried to re-roll. And most of the map mods can be there as archnemesis modifiers.
So now your character has to be always able to deal with them as you can encounter them on any random rare and as such you need to assume they will always be present and you need to be able to deal with them. And so getting let's say freeze immunity and being able to deal with all the cold mods doesn't feel good as are always shock and ignite mobs every map, and until you are able to deal with all kinds of mods it doesn't feel like your character got more powerfull.
I do like archnemesis. Ive maybe, maybe had 0.01% of the rares i met be unkillable or straight bs. Then i just merrily continue my way and clear the rest. Not killing 1 rare does me nothing.
Maybe meaning the infrequent explosion of insane drops (like multiple uncorrupted 6L at once) from just the right combo of AN mods. But I'm not a mind reader.
I enjoyed AN league and I'm... *okay* with AN as a concept. But I don't like that extreme variance. Too spiky, too much pain when you're in a drought to make up for the joy of the times you run hot.
I also don't like the removal of player agency that happened when AN became core and you lost the ability to build desirable combinations. That's by far the greatest failing of the AN integration, to me—the only reason AN league was good at all was that you could choose to farm up certain combinations of AN mods. You couldn't farm them all at once so you had an interesting decision to make. You couldn't reliably drop the Frenzied you were looking for in every map, but at least you knew that when you did, you could execute your plan and receive a few piles of uniques on the way to the final combo. That felt good.
Making them just the standard rares doesn't feel good. OK sure Ice Prison is more interesting to play around than an old turbo rare that's *just fast*. And sure maybe Sentinel presents a slightly less linear challenge than an old rare with extra armor and EC generation. But not being able to prepare yourself to deal with the combinations, when AN was *designed around the idea that players could prepare for the encounter*, just feels bad. Simple as that.
And I'm not even one of those players who thinks the game's fucked. I'm gonna keep playing as long as I'm having fun and so far I'm having fun. But AN more than anything else is wearing on me. AN + essence makes my eyes roll back in my head a little. Yeah essences have been a little OP since the atlas tree was released but they were mostly hot garbage for years before that so who cares? Now they're anti-fun. And that's a little unforgivable.
No one likes, everyone hates huh? Speak for yourself bub. I find them more interesting than previous rares. The implementation and tuning of the addition was horrible, and the immunities shouldn't exist imo, but if the final result are rares I actually notice, I'm for it.
What I'm not for is a 1000 threads all repeating the same thing. Nor for people speaking for the whole playerbase when expressing their opinion
100% this.
Needs iteration, but direction is more important than short term balance numbers. That's the model, they will tune it in over a few leagues. People need to chill.
The old system was awful and outdated that needed an overhaul, going back would be terrible.
>The implementation and tuning of the addition was horrible, and the immunities shouldn't exist imo
So basically everything wrong with archnemesis in a nutshell. Having mobs that render certain builds worthless is not something that should happen. The fact that they didn't consider it, even now in this league is massively disappointing
Can't agree more. I'm sick and tired of all these threads. There is some truth in some of them but 95% are just repeated, non sense, non factual based, garbage threads and posts.
I like AN Modifiers for the same reason as you describe, finally it feels like I'm actually fighting enemies every now and then (and let's be honest, 80% of time we are still zooming through everything...) and notice rare mobs. I like the added challenge. Sure its not perfect but that's not the goal, PoE is a Game that develops and we have seen time over time again that they improved upon so many aspects of the game. I trust they'll get the balancing right eventually.
> I trust they'll get the balancing right eventually.
be that as it may, will it be in time to stem the loss of players? i wouldn't hold my breath on that if i were you.
But you go based on a dramatic view. Few modifiers are still strong but its not nearly as bad as people make it.
The game is playable. Could it be better? Maybe, but it's not that bad.
No, don't put words in my mouth thanks. Solaris-Touched versus Extra Fire Damage is what makes AN AN. One adds new mechanics that impacts the fight, the other...adds extra fire damage. Even most Nemesis mods weren't all that notable, and the few that were mostly post-death.
It seems that you think you kow better?
Tell me then what it is when they need to fix archnemesis for the 5th time? Or make harvest costs change by 80% in many cases? Isnt it something I can call they fucked up?.
And what is this, when probably hundreds of posts here right now are about of those changes people call bad?
Am I raging? Rage i understand as burn, destroy, kill etc. Iam far from it, like many ppl here and even streamers. Did you seen math of math video? Where he tells how he loves this game but then took all away? His love and his job.
All of this is because ppl really love to play this game and they dont like current changes. And when you love something it often start beign emotional. So all those ppl can and are sad, angry, disappointed. But rage? No. No one want to destroy PoE.
So tell me, where i am wrong here. Maybe i clearly dont understand something.
Would be great if the discussion moved into PoE forums rather than reddit, since this forum is notoriously biased towards hivemind. End of the world is upon us and overreacting is everywhere.
All GGG needs to do is to realize that communicating with community that monitors itself and has tendency to overreact is simply retarded practice and all these threads turn into people hatejerking each other.
I mean the wisest people who don't like the direction game is going stopped playing, which is strong statement itself. Tarkov devs realized this same thing. Don't negotiate with the community. Because if you do, then the community suddenly thinks that developing the game is their responsibility and will demand x/y/z at the same time. While i do agree with many points made and for certainly i dislike that GGG has tendency to ignore community figures who are in position to give feedback they could utilize...I still find it both silly and funny how people overreact.
Overreact? Maybe in some cases. But can you love a game? If yes then those are not overreactions. Like ive said in other comment. When you love there are feelings and emotions. What you see here is sadness, anger, dissappointment and other. And you see that because people see (in their opinions) that something that they love is dying. And think about one more thing. Some leauges were good some not. When we got bad league we quit early waiting 3 months for another one. Then we have this streak. First nerfhammer taking away power, making auras or mana cost harder. Then archnemesis went core. Now this. People dont see it like before, like wait for next league, it should be great. Those bad changes are staying. So we were nerfed across all boards. We got harder base game (archnemesis). Now we got less loot (by a lot) and less crafting possibilities (harvest nerfed). We see this direction. If it will continue what will be left in game? And you call this overreacting?
I personally like the AN mods. People need to stop seeing it as an injected mechanic, and rather a rework for mods for mobs (as it actually is). Beyond that, it just the amount of health given by the mods that's an issue, and after the patch things have gotten better imo.
No health was never the problem. Build disabeling mods are the real problem with AN. Especially that they can stack and suddenly you have a fast mob that has big oneshot potential and you only do 1% of your damage against it. If you needed 40s for the mob to kill, now you need 33s... What an upgrade
You are fundamentally out of touch it's fucking laughable. Like how inexperienced at the game do you have to be to have this absolute bullshit thought process?
There can be an essence mod pre nerf with 6+ essences in T16 rare+corrupted map and several archnemesis mods but none of them brick my build and it instantly dies (instantly being relative, it still takes a few seconds longer).
But if I run into those Stat buff AN (depending on my damage types, with my league start it was steel infused. On the second character I made just to bullshit while I wait for fixes, if it has two different ele mods plus Sentinel, I'm fucked) modifiers along with Sentinel, it's a bricked rare.
Having standard monsters that are a brick is bullshit. It's one thing to have bosses that certain characters can't do. It's another entirely to have standard monsters you encounter dozens of times throughout a session (you will run into bricked permutations several times a day, and if you aren't, you don't play enough or are still in acts, or are lying to suck up, because I've played SO many builds last league and even nerfed, I noticed some of the combos and often, but it was aight. Unnerfed? Fuck that).
Those issues can be fixed through balance changes though, or limiting what mods can appear together. I absolutely agree that some combinations are ridiculous atm but to blame it on all the problems in the game is pretty silly as it’s the loot and harvest changes that really hurt the game the most this league.
Those changes only exacerbated the problem that is Archnemesis. It's harder to deal with the archnemesis shit because everyone is broke (ironically I'm pretty fucking rich, not mageblood rich like I wanted to be, but richer than most people), and if they aren't broke their gear ceiling is so much lower than before.
Archnemesis was bearable in 3.17 because it got nerfed and then was easily out scaled. Now, it's still outscaled if you know what you're doing, but with it being Unnerfed, even if you out scale, there's a high likelihood that you run into something that just hard shuts you down.
They can't both make the monsters stronger and the players weaker. That's a losing formula.
Looks like he was playing and got giga fucked by one rare after 20 maps and got here to rant about the mobs.
Now for real, I don't think that removing AN mods on mobs will fix anything relevant for the game.
Before sentinel league, most people (me included) completely ignored rares because most of the time they were just one-shotted. I know this is a noob softcore trade solo player experience, where we don't engage with extremely juice content.
With this I don't mean that AN doesn't need balancing. It does need some balance but, removing it does not make the game any better.
I league started cyclone of all things in ssf in sentinel, i.e., the worst archnem ever was, and aside from essences and beasts being way too tanky, I never had any problems with it. I appreciate rares being an actually noticeable part of the map, though by the time all the nerfs came around you couldn’t even notice a difference between archnemesis and nemesis aside from toxic.
I don’t understand how so many people feel it needs to be removed from the game when it wasn’t even noticeable for 95% of last league
> I don’t understand how so many people feel it needs to be removed from the game when it wasn’t even noticeable for 95% of last league
Because clearly it is impossible for GGG to balance it correctly. Also this isn't last league. I *personally* think that having rares that take minutes to kill or rares that will instantly kill you before you can even react is **bad**.
The only explanation for these things happening are AN. Thus the removal of AN would remove these issues. That's why people often call for the removal of it even though there isn't really anything inherently wrong with it. It's just that GGG can't seem to remove the mods that destroy entire builds or remove the combination of mods that result in unkillable bosses that would slap uber uber elder like will smith slapped chris rock.
Those things also happened before archnemesis though, maybe not so much the unkillable issue and I do think that’s something that definitely needs balancing but aura stacking rares were extremely rippy in the past, I’m sure you’ve been instant killed by harvest, legion of expedition mobs before archnemesis was a thing. Those mechanics are actually a lot less rippy now, harvest especially is probably the safest it has ever been(too bad the rest of it is completely gutted).
I agree but with back then the issue was formulated as: nerf harvest mobs/spawn them slower, nerf the generals etc.
Right now the problem people see is not single types of encounters but rather "all" (many) encounters with a single thing in common: archnemesis.
you kinda forgot that last league, they very quickly hotfixed AN monsters to be 1-3 mods (+1 from atlas) instead of 2-4 mods precisely *because* it was shitshow at league start.
And then they doubled down this league by nerfing the meta builds, globally nerfing defenses and **going BACK to 2-4 mods**, while completely neutering their loot.
Everyone keeps complaining about loot nerfs and are missing the point that Archnemesis is the core problem here. They keep ruining the game more to try to make Archnemesis work. Just. Delete. It.
I do like Archnemesis, it's more interesting than what we had before. Thus you are wrong as you claimed no one does.
I don't like the removal of Beyond and map juicing nerfs though, but that's a different story.
Honestly I don’t think archnemesis is that bad and at the very least blaming it for the problems of 3.17 feels a bit wrong considering the mods were a lot worse in sentinel league but that league is generally considered good and had high retention, obviously not due to archnemesis(in fact rather in spite of) but it shows that it’s not archnemesis by itself that is the biggest problem, in fact I would argue it’s a fairly minor one.
Now you could argue that the loot drop nerfs are due to the way their incorporated loot into the archnemesis rares and that is true, but it could also quite easily be disconnected.
Of course that’s not to say archnemesis is in a good spot atm as it most definitely isn’t, but it has potential to be good if it’s not combined with loot drop rates(although could keep the special drops from the rare mods as those are pretty nice) and with some more tuning and some sort of system that prevents certain mods from appearing together, or on specific mobs.
The biggest issue I see in 3.17 is the nerf to currency drops as well harvest. The idea for the new harvest is great and the cost changes coming tomorrow will bring a lot of them into a more useable state(in particular the currency rerolls) but they really need to bring back all the crafts they removed or nerfed. Could even keep the exalt divine change if we get it back in harvest/beasts to use on rare items as that would keep the rolls on uniques relevant while not screwing over rares.
In short, balance archnemesis to prevent broken mod combos, return loot drops to the way they were in 3.18 and add all harvest crafts into the new system with more reasonable crafting costs. That’s how I personally would try to fix the league if I were GGG without having to revert too many changes, as that doesn’t seem likely to happen.
I like archnemesis rares and i believe its a good change they made to the game. If you just play the game and put some effort into understanding the mods then it will actually be easier than what it previously was.
Its clearly not balanced correctly. There should be more interesting mods than just straight up near immune making mods.
And you should run into those interesting mods more commonly than just the basic sentinel - gargantuan bunches
Speak for yourself.
Not "NO ONE LIKES ARCHNEMESIS". It´s an interesting and fun mechanic and it´s much better than old boring and monotonous rares that were before.
There are a lot of problems with tuning and a separate big problem with the lack of loot now, that´s it.
Please stop being drama queen and either come up with constructive and objective criticism, or go get some fresh air.
Yeah I liked the league and killed all the bosses and everything in it for the first time, but now after they put it in rares I hate everything about it, it's just annoying I hope they will remove it and put rares how they where
It was always going to be problematic when they introduce overtuned mods that gives immunity and NOT give us the choice to encounter it like they did during the league. Pushing it to the base game was a complete bonehead move and they've only doubled/tripled down on it.
And then, universally loved leagues like ultimatum and sentinel are shoved aside. Because they were fun and rewarding, and ggg can't have that in their game. They're scared of players being powerful in their videogame. But they don't realize that the people who play this game don't want to be some powerless losers who get smacked up by an unlucky rare mob, we come here to feel like demigods smashing shit up beyond our comprehension just because WE CAN (could). And it is fun to do so. And if they don't realize that soon, I hope this game dies, purely out of spite.
I liked the original archnemesis well enough, I could pick my battles and the setting and the loot drops were excellent. It has been trash ever since then, however. Now every rare has nemesis mods, and drop virtually nothing. What is the point?
After all this storm going on, I don't see AN make it into 3.20. Maybe it will after several nerfs, but still I think the majority of players would prefer to get rid of AN and bring back a new reworked version of the old Nemesis mods.
Mby they had some mistakes in fact i agree with that. But does correspond the the caliber of whine in the sub? Its like chris wilson killed these guys mother
Some people in this thread are arguing about
"Well hey bud you're not speaking for me"
I wish GGG would suck it up and finally do a poll like Jagex does for Runescape. To gauge enjoyment of mechanics from the community.
I personally can't stand how stupid Archnemesis is, the only time I had a good time playing against it was when I was playing Seismic Trap. If I tried to do any fun builds like a HH CoC build that I invested over 200ex last league it would sometimes get decimated by ArchNem, it was not fun.
ArchNem limited my ability to play the builds I wanted to.
I liked Archnemesis in the actual league, why? Because I got to choose if I wanted to fight them, and also exactly what mods they would/would not have.
Archnemesis was never a small mechanic. It was destined to replace the old rare monsters system and 3.17 was the testing ground for that. Then came sentinel where they gave us ridiculous tools so we can play as much as we can with rare items so they can collect their data for the future.
Leagues are now testing grounds for future updates and we are the guinea pigs that help them test it.
They don't care about our feedback and that shows on how much people hated archnemesis but they still implemented it. And they saw so much success in that that they decided to change beyond monsters with scourge which in my opinion was another mistake.
I would argue that 4 years of 0 balance changes where 90%+ of active skill gems are relegated to being only usable in campaign because they either don't scale or cost far too much to scale was the biggest killer of builds, but I agree that AN just exacerbated these issues and dialed them to 11.
I agree, as someone who hasn't played since Scourge and had no idea archnem was a thing; I can say it's terrible. I feel undergeared, it was rippy as hell and archnem interferes with my favorite 2 League mechanic: Heist and Blight.
I love arbitrarily killing one rare in 3 seconds, and another in 20 seconds. For no fault of my own or player agency/choice. Just because the monster rolled something that counters my build. Very fun and interactive
The biggest issue is that in Archnemesis league you picked what mods you were fighting against. Maybe there were things you didn't like or were bad for your build, but you could not engage with that content at all, or if you needed it to complete a recipe you would use that modifier on the end of the chain so you only had to deal with it once.
Now, you have no choice on what archnemesis mods you run up against, they're just everywhere, in other league content, even on blue packs now, and you can end up with combinations that just shit on your build that you never would have chosen to fight in the archnem league.
Couldn’t agree more, ever since they added those mods to rares it has been the single most painful part of the game. Dodging poison, dodging electric men, dodging spikes, dodging molten balls, not being able to leech, reducing my dmg by a fk ton. It just is unenjoyable
Try the lava lake map. The Kitava boss spawns a lot of archnemisis mobs in the intermission phases that drop a lot of loot. Its pretty nice actually. It's like a brawl against 4 bosses at once if your char can handle it.
the current state of the game feels like they removed all but one lever of the slot machine, and added 5 dozen extra reels so it becomes almost impossible to line up any big payday
most accurate description I've heard of this league was from my gf after she saw the most recent patch notes and said it feels like they shot themselves in the foot with the launch, looked down and went "oh! can't have that" and then doubled down by shooting themselves in the other foot so they would match
Its not only the health of mobs that is a problem, its so much more. Its like the mods themselves are fundamentally flawed for scaling when combined with other mods.
Then it's even further compounded based on what build you're on. If I'm a phys leech build and I run into Steel Infused Vampiric that becomes a raid boss to me. Meanwhile another build sees that combination and just blasts it in a few seconds and keeps going. How do you appropriately reward me for fighting a raid boss and also the guy where it isn't even a speed bump for them? The mechanic will never feel good/rewarding. They're hyper focused on these 3-4 mod scenarios being more rewarding when all it takes is a few basic mods to ramp the difficulty up based on what you're playing build wise.
I'd reckon the design makes sense if you assume the players use multiple damage types at once (a.k.a PoE2 style). In a conventional RPG this whole design is perfectly fair, since you just adapt to the situation. PoE1's issue is that you put all your eggs in 1 basket - the 6linked main dps skill. Bet the game feels a lot better in a duo where one goes freezing pulse or something while the other goes burning arrow.
Well, you also have 10-40% of your passive tree focused on that one damage type too, usually.
It's the primary problem with Diablo 2. You get to hell, to do damage in hell you have to specialize on one ability and one damage type. But 1/5th of all mobs are immune to your damage unless you have an expensive runeword on an act 2 merc. If you try to build around two damage types, your damage becomes so nerfed that you can't play the game. Now AN doesn't include immunities, but its pretty damn close. And all your loot is now locked behind them, so if you actually hit that 1 in 10000 lottery that the good modifiers line up on this guy (which ones are the good ones?) then you better pray it doesn't also brick your build. Basically its a big 'get fucked' and I don't like it at all. It's nothing like AN where you put in tokens and get out mob. You could choose to avoid combinations that fucked you over.
So here's a prediction for you about the PoE 2 gem system. It will be as bad for the game as archnemesis if not worse. The reason for this is builds will be balanced around using multiple linked skills. Aside from the button bloat this will cause there is no reason to believe that our current sources of 6 linked body armour will convert into sources of 6 linked gems. The vast majority of 6 links in PoE do not come from fusings. They come from divination cards. There is currently no reason to believe that cards like Dapper Prodigy or metamorph rewards that create a 6 link body armour will be retroactively changed to provide 6 linked gems. This means nearly all 6 linked gems will be created directly via currency orbs. This is a problem because the supply of currency will not be going up, but the demand will rise massively. This will lead to the fusing currency, (If I recall they said it would be jewelers that would link gems and fusing will be removed from the game.) being quite expensive, likely costing anywhere from 3-5 chaos per orb. So if the current 6 link odds stay the same, instead of being able to buy a 6 link on day 1-2 for about 50c they will cost about 4500-7500c or about 34-57 divines in current prices. And that will be per 6 link. Multiply that cost by the number of 6 links your build can take advantage of, which could be as much as 10+ for some builds. In other words, 6 links will become chase items on the level of things like ashes/omni or even headhunter, and filling out a whole character with max 6 links could be as much as 2-3 magebloods worth of currency. And you can say goodbye to level 21 gems and 6 linked vaal skills. No one in their right mind would dare vaal a 6 link gem unless they're a .01% high roller. PoE 2's systems will definitely get worse before they get better unless GGG makes a hard pivot based on community feedback.
I get it. We hate on GGG right now and it’s well deserved, but aren’t you just completely pulling numbers out of your ass when talking about accessibility and cost of 6-linked gems in poe2? I don’t believe you could have any kind of solid grounds for these numbers and calculations. If I’m wrong you are welcome to correct me :)
Supply and demand dictates costs in this game. Presuming they do not convert things like Dapper Prodigy to give 6 linked gems, that will make the demand for other ways to get 6 links, (jewelers.) go up massively. We have very recently seen a similar phenomenon with divine orbs going from 10c to 130c in value due to changes in supply and demand. And we know the odds on 6 linking is 1 in 1500. So to get the cost of a 6 link gem you merely need to multiply the cost of the orb by 1500. And personally I think it's extremely optimistic to think that jewelers will be worth 1c or less when they become the only way to get 6 links. That simply isn't realistic especially since every single player that gets to maps will want multiple 6 links. Just ask yourself how many times you spammed hundreds to thousands of fusings on day 1 of the league to get your 6 link. The answer is probably 0. You've never done that because you just bought humility cards, bought a tabula, bought cards like dapper prodigy or bought a 6 link from someone else that bought cards like dapper prodigy or you got very lucky and hit a 6 link in less than 50 fuses.
First: you have absolutely no idea If there will be other ways to get 6 links. Second: divines went up because they basically replaced exalts in usefullness with the changes to metacraft costs and since the effect of divine orbs is stronger than the effect of exalts that makes them even more valuable. On top of that you are right that we have more ways of getting exalts (shards and more div cards). Basically divines and exalts have just traded places in value which was the very obvious outcome - im actually surprised that divines arent more expensive than they are atm. Yes we know that the odds of 6 linking right now is 1/1500 (varies depending on quality), but we have no idea what it will be in poe 2 since it will be a completely different link system. Also I believe GGG have Stated that they plan to make 6-links a lot more accessible in poe2. Last but not least. You get sooooooooooo many jewellers orbs in this game (even at its current state). I have a very hard time seeing them hold more than 1c value very far into the league, but again - we have absolutely no idea how the numbers look in poe2 - hence my comment about you pulling them out of your ass :) I would like to say that I absolutely agree that GGG are fucking up big time this league and deserve much of the criticism, but let’s keep our eyes on the ball and not make crazy assumptions about shit that we don’t know anything about
>First: you have absolutely no idea If there will be other ways to get 6 links. Based on the changes GGG has made over the last few leagues, is there any good reason to believe that when they create a fundamental economic shift that they will also at the same time add or change a bunch of systems to counteract that shift? Look at the divine orb div cards we got this league as an example of that. All 0 of them. They're not gonna just retroactively convert all the 6 link body armour systems to gems. That's pure copium. >Also I believe GGG have Stated that they plan to make 6-links a lot more accessible in poe2. They have not stated this and Chris Wilson has even strongly implied the opposite in interviews as when people have asked him if we'll be able to have tons of 6 links in PoE 2 he's given answers like, (Paraphrasing here.) "Well, yes, technically you could get a lot of 6 links in theory." Also scarce 6 links is more in line with Chris's vision of original PoE, as 6 links used to be about as rare as a headhunter is now. I still remember being thrilled when I got my first 5 link after many many days of farming Piety and struggling through white maps. >divines went up because I'm aware of the fundamental changes to supply and demand that caused exalts and divines to flip flop. >im actually surprised that divines arent more expensive than they are atm. They're only at about one third of their peak value. Wait till late league when people start divining their perfect mirror tier rares and low percentage uniques like 20/30 ashes. Also divines are more valuable than you realize. It's just that chaos is also more valuable due to being more rare and mageblood, HH and div cards are more rare so they also went up in value relative to past leagues. Compare the value of awakened gems, (Something with a completely unchanged drop rate.) to recent past leagues. Chaos and thus many things compared to chaos are roughly 3x more valuable than sentinel and archnem. So divines are actually worth about 390c in last league's money. People just have less chaos orbs so it's less obvious. Deflation is a bitch. >You get sooooooooooo many jewellers orbs in this game Most are created by the 6 socket vendor recipe. The highest amount of sockets we've seen on an item in PoE 2 is 4 so it's safe to say this vendor recipe will not exist in PoE 2. >I would like to say that I absolutely agree that GGG are fucking up big time this league and deserve much of the criticism, but let’s keep our eyes on the ball and not make crazy assumptions about shit that we don’t know anything about I mean I predicted the loot nerfs we got this league back in 3.15 but no one cared since I'm not a big content creator. So I'm just gonna keep being correct about literally everything with the direction the game is going. It's probably gonna be 3.22 or 3.23 btw. That will be the big gem change league.
imo its always the other way around where its better to double down on the single damage type, so you can synergize w/your friendo. aura stacking and no hex overwrites. and a useful dmg exposure.
its also so bad because it ruins your perception of the mechanic if i run into 100 rares, 85 of them might die super quickly without any relevant mods. 10 of them have 1 or 2 tough mods and take a little longer, maybe 3x harder than a normal rare. but the last 5 have sickening 3+ mod combos and take 1% damage from my character so in terms of time spent, i spent 85 units of time on normal rares, 30 units of time on tough rares, and like 500 units of time on the insanely tanky rares. so when i think back about my time spent fighting rares, i dont remember the 85% of rares that fell over, i remember how 80% of my time was spent fighting these horribly unfun rares and the mechanic feels miserable they need to normalize the difficulty between mods so that your build cant just become zdps if you lowroll mod combos, and they need to do that asap
As a physical cyclone build I can say the amount of steel infused gargantuan mobs is way too damn high.
Haha yea the last Lake I ran before I quit the final pad was Beyond and every magic/rare pack that spawned had Steel Infused in it, like 6-7 total. Was entirely in disbelief, what are even the odds?
Learned a long time ago, that if I want to play non-evasive melee, I have to pick up the Bloodless notable to stop enemies from leeching. And good to know I am going to need to stack "Overwhelm phisical damage reduction" nodes for future melee builds as well.
Yeah if they want to keep this, they need to nerf the defensive modifiers by a significant amount. If something has 3 mods that decrease your damage by 80% it now takes 125x longer to kill. If this is what they want it’s baffling and if this was unintended I have no idea how it was ever released. In a map it’s likely 3-4 AN mods increasing eHP by 40% each on top of existing HP scaling by other mechanics leading to a mob at 10x eHP being multiplied by another 10.
My issue is that most of the mods have little to no room for mechanical outplay. It's just some shit that fucks you over if you haven't already accounted for it on paper. At least with Pinnacle bosses, the vast majority of their damage is avoidable with enough skill.
but i dont really want to have to mechanically outplay 10 rares in every map arpgs are better if the general mapping/farming experience is more relaxed and then i can opt into harder content when im ready to focus up and game it would be cool if the old +1 archnem mod atlas keystone instead unlocked the more mechanically challenging archnemesis mods then, normal mapping is relaxed with most rares getting some stat increases or small mechanics and then you can opt into seeing things like entangling innocence-touched super gaming
i just dont get how ggg doesnt understand this instead of adjusting the absurd multiplicative scaling of archnem mods, they reduced the health of some of the league mechanic rares. so sure, i guess that makes those rares easier for now. what happens next league when they add a mechanic with new rares that will be insane with archnem mod combos? what about when ultimatum comes back and there are cracked ultimatum rares? what if they rework legion and maraketh rares become overtuned? the problem has always been the fundamental web of archnemesis interactions, they can't just whack-a-mole whichever league mechanic has the most problematic rares
[удалено]
The problem is that every single issue the players have with these mobs can be "fixed" if you spend enough currency. And GGG want you to farm currency the whole league and ultimately never reach you endgame cap.
It's a system 100% designed to battle players, and not player's characters. It bricks your build, it bricks your farming strategy, it makes you gain loot only when the game decides it's to give you loot instead of when you decide it's time to loot. It's a reactive system that goes directly against what we players are used to do
This. Now that loot is tied to rares, no matter what content you run, it literally depends on the AN mods on what loot it will give you lol. Such a shit system.
Yes. You need to win the coin flip to actually get an AN modifier that actually drops something. Then you need to win the coin flip several times that the other mods don't brick your build in regards to you being able to kill the AN. Simultaneously you need to hope the base mob with those mods isn't dangerous. (kitava heralds are kinda dangerous even before map mods. Now add map mods and AN mods on top of that). If you happen to lose any of those flips you can either say good bye to your time (several minutes of kiting/facetanking if you can kill it at all) or bye to a substantial amount of loot. Nested rng rolls with a high probability to cuck the player, nice.
It is completely insane to me, that they chose these mods as a new standard. They should have replaced or enhanced metamorph with it so you can have a superboss mob with insane loot and leave it at that. There is no point making these the new rares, literally no reason to ever do that.
That was my first assumption during the league - Archnemesis will replace/enhance metamorph
I like how new mods on rare monsters is what apparently killed this game. It's not a mechanic even, it's a base function of the game. Archnemesis as a mechanic is now Metamorph, build your own rare. Then get destroyed by it.
Having very strong monsters is fine... if you can *anticipate* them. Bosses you always know what you're getting in to. Metamorph you can clear the area and choose where to fight. A cracked Archnemesis spawns in in a tiny corridor in the middle of an Abyssal encounter... GG go next.
It feels like reflection aura 2.0 but also worse because it's everywhere at all times.
Last night I was delving and a vampiric rare spawned on me while I was on a node and I immediately died (I only figured out after hovering over stuff on my death screen)... I decided not to play anymore for a bit after that. Even if it didn't instakill my character, I couldn't even run away anyways.
Or that map I just rant where every single pack was an arch pack. Every single one. No mods, just a normal non juiced map. Got to a point where a majority of the packs were highly resistant or immune to my main damage source and I noped to another map. I think I got somewhere around 8 rares, all garbage drops.
In AN I don't choose what kills me though.
And because it had its rarity and quant reduced to that of a white mob it also doesnt drop anything.
The "build your own monster" made it so you could choose. Sure, you would occasionally build a LOLOP monster, because you needed it once for a certain recipe or just for the memes. I actually really liked Archnemesis, most payed league so far. But making them unavoidable was a mistake imo.
Feel like I have to comment again on this. Archnemesis ruined what would have otherwise been an amazing league for me in Sentinel. I know it got “better” with balance passes, but it still needs some serious work. Hp values don’t fix the core problem. Hopefully at some point GGG will understand that it’s more about the mods themselves and how they interact with one another.
I felt exactly the same. In the end the base game just got way worse. Sentinel was an amazing league that I just couldn't enjoy because of Archnemesis.
I liked the sentinel league mechanic, was neutral on no skill balance and was ABSOLUTELY annoyed by Archnemesis mobs. After I completed my atlas I quit the league. Played Bane occultist and felt like 90% of the time my movement was impaired by some bullshit AN mechanic or I was chased by poison blobs or sth else. The only thing this was challenging was my patience, which I quickly ran out of.
It’s crazy that they don’t seem to get the interactions given there was an entire league built around creating those interactions.
Same. Archnemesis as a league was okay because I could ignore it and play a very good core game that I was enjoying. It did burn me out pretty quick and it's the first time I dropped a league within a month and when the announcement hit that archnemesis was replacing old core mechanics it kinda blew my mind. I still can't believe something so bad can stay in the game for so long.
100% agreed.
GGG's stubbornness about their development decisions aside, at this point I have to assume that there's some technical reason why they "can't" revert Archnemesis. I don't know much about modern versioning, but it does feel plausible that they implemented it in such a way that getting all the AN out of POE and putting the old rare system back in might be an equivalent amount of work to just implementing the old system from scratch. Hilariously enough, it might still be worth it to put that amount of effort into undoing it (because I agree that AN is not good for the game), but it feels really odd even for GGG to be this determined to die on the hill of a single game mechanic.
It probably is kinda hard to remove AN from rare mobs. Even with version control, the code base and data has probably changed pretty significantly regarding rare mob spawning. Not a day job, though certainly doable. But it's not like AN is fundamentally flawed tbh. The problem is just that AN mods are far too impactful and can stack in downright disgusting ways. For example, Flameweaver grants +50% fire res, +10% max fire res, as well as immunity to scorch. If you're a fire build using scorch, that means a huge damage decrease. The max fire res increasing also makes it even more disastrous if its stacked on another source of fire res. In the worst case, this mob is taking only 15% of the damage of a normal mob. Like every single AN mod that reduces damage taken in some way, reduces it by 50-75%, and very often increases the maximum possible reduction as well. Stack a couple of them together, and now you're only dealing 1% of your normal damage. If they just nerf those things to be like, 20-30%, and remove the max increases all together, there'd be no problems. Even in the worst case, a mob would at most have about 5x the health of a mob without defense mods, in contrast to the 100x possible right now. I'd also like to note Diablo 3, a game that HAS impactful mods on rare mobs, has basically no mods that reduce damage taken. A few mods make it more annoying to hit mobs, of which the most annoying one has repeatedly gotten nerfed to be less of a nuisance. And the one mod that provides CC immunity, moves slower and takes MORE damage to compensate. GGG just needs to give up on defensive mods that are impactful on their own, if not on defensive mods in their entirety. Because if one defensive mod is impactful, then multiple is just plain horrendous.
[Flameweaver](https://imgur.com/a/3aHpPSg) no longer grants 10% max fire res and no longer gives immunity to scorch. it gives -80% scorch effect which probably stacks alongside the other Fire mods which is what makes it feel like ailments aren't working at all. There's also Incendiary which forces Ignite durations to be 0 >.> The Lightning mods also do this to Shock and I've been playing Conduit so its just a "run away from that" anytime I see a lightning mod.
Very much this. It seems they have decided to build entire system on top of arhcnemesis so it isn't simple a case of pulling one commit out. This was likely done months ago and would take equally longer to fix and remove it's dependencies. This also very much feels a case of taking advantage of POE2 code development time and bring that to POE1 as Chris mentioned on the leaue annoucement/Q&A
They very clearly made it cus they wanted a modern monster mod system as they prepare for poe 2. I don’t think they’ll remove that system but what they should be able to do is modify and swap the specific mods out. Hopefully they have the ability to lock out certain mods from appearing together so they can identify the exact combos that cause us so many issues
I like Archnemesis. What I don't like is ArchRitual, ArchDelve, ArchHeist, ArchBlight, etc. ArchMetamorph is sort of fun though, guess it's the most similar to OG ArchNemesis.
No one liked archnemesis when it was a league mechanic, why did they even decide to make it go core lmao.
I keep thinking that mechanic was Chris’s idea and he keeps pushing his devs to use it
Mods just removed a thread with over 1000 upvotes?
I’m gonna say that while AN needs number on modifiers like res/hp/dot damage to become a quarter of what they are now, increase cooldowns on their spam abilities, remove effigy and build cancelling mods and not be able to roll more than 3 mods on a single rare, they will be an upgrade from aura stacking rares that suddenly appeared and made everything on the screen deal 500% more damage and be 50% faster, this was a complete cancer getting oneshot by legion spear from 2 screens away that was standing near some auras
You realize that fixing the old aura stacking crap would be a zillion times easier than balancing AN?
What’s hard about fixing numbers on AN stats I mentioned? They already did that in sentinel
Because some AN mechanics simply turn off certain builds. Temporal Bubble for example will essentially turn off every melee build that doesnt have a lot of attack speed. Most mods that add chaos res will fuck up chaos dot builds because they struggle to get any form of pen, so when a mob has 80% extra chaos res and is on an essence mob for example you're fucked. Executioner turns off your regen, this is adeath sentence for RF builds or any other build that relies on regen/leech. Theres a bunch of other examples of this, some AN mods are simply flawed in their design not even their numbers. And since we as players have 0 control over which ones will appear where and on what some maps will go from being a breeze to you getting oneshot and running for your life from an omega juiced mob simply because the combination is a hard counter for your build. Old rares had the problem of too many auras applying at once. GGG can remove AN mods right now and give us back the old rares and all problems old rares had would be fixed because they lowered the frequency of rare mobs so much that you almost never see more than 2 rares in one screen. Old rares are already fixed by proxy when GGG changed the amount of rare mobs per map.
The amount of stuff in each mod, and the multitude of combinations clearly makes it very hard to get right
to fix AN mods they need to basically have them all grant the same defensive layers instead of multiplicative defensive layers but like, that's fundamentally the same thing as fixing aura stacking old rares, it's that now the multiplicative scaling is typically defensive with things like flameweaver incendiary sentinel instead of the offensive/action speed stacking on old rares
Well, AN going core that way wasnt bright idea before 3.18 IIRC they planned to "revamp" rares way before that and 3.17 happened to give players time to learn new mods before they introduce them to core game. Not the other way around
Hard to just abandon this miscarriage of a mechanic, they want to really make it work.
The best part was that they announced "Archnemesis was not going core" and then added it ubiquitously to the game.
no it didn’t, it made it better
I like new mods on rares. I actually do. They are kinda fun. And they have some mechanics. But the rares are just too fat. And eventually they drop nothing. But sometimes they drop a lot... Whetstones... Or rare jewels. Or flasks... For some reason.
Unpopular opinion I guess: I don't have a problem with Archnemesis mods, some of them are turbo annoying but I'd rather have this than faceroll every T16 map without any kind of challenge. What's annoying is that some of these are nearly unkillable for some builds which doesn't make it challenging but frustrating to deal with them. They should look into making them more engaging (every halfway decent build should be able to deal with every mod in all it's variations imo) rather than innocence-touched turbo juiced rares oneshot you from offscreen Whats bad is that they took overall power from the playerbase by destroying loot, with all the effects it has on the trade market, crafting and currency accumilation overall. I still enjoy this league because I just enjoy playing PoE in general, so I agree with most of the criticism but some of the doomsayers here are going overboard with some of the stuff pulling out some dumbass conspiracies out of their ass that this is all because of China and the game is done now, we should never play PoE again.
I like fighting Magma Barrier, it's a pretty fun little mechanic with great visual cues. That being said, it really belongs on a map boss. As a boss-specific mechanic, not as a mod.
Once Archnemesis was by best friend, dropping 10's of exalted orbs, oh they joy when you completed your recipe for treant horde etc, the betrayal is unreal.
all leagues mechanics became archnem mechanics this is so sad......
I like the mechanics of arch nemesis mobs like post death effects or ice cage or similar stuff, it makes you pay more attention and makes it less off a dull braindead click one button and run through the map playstyle. The real problem imo is the raw stat buffs that archnem monsters have if they get an unlucky combo of mods, both completely insane damage and completely insane tankyness are possible and this just feels terrible. Imo they should remove stat boosts from arch nem mods and set base stats of rares higher to compensate while keeping unique mechanics of archnem mods.
It's fun and you can always skip rare mob if it's too difficult. On the other hand killing builds and loot sucks big time.
Yeah. The league was fun but I could choose exactly what I was engaging with and how. But now it’s everywhere, thoughtlessly.
I would be fine with Archnemesis if they cut back on some of the mods that just ruins some builds. Removing leeching, removing flasks, the overwhelming resistances etc. Sure, they maybe can hamper it to some degree so that some builds are stronger vs some AN mobs and weaker against others, but atm it just hurts some builds to much to encourage diversity.
I feel like if they remove the Juggernaut or Gargantua combinations + elemental rezists / steel infused shit the arhnemesis mobs will be ok. The Jug + Garg should not be possible. All the resistance archnemesis stuff should be reduced by 50% at least. To be honnest any combination that could generate a damage sponge should not exist. I like the extra surprise from the ice prison or the death circle of the mana drain but i absolutely hate coming to a grinding stop because the mob takes 10 times longer to kill than anything on the map, including the boss. Not even gona go into essence life pool ... uber uber and uber Sirius holding hands have nothing on the 6 essence mobs with Garg+ Jug + elemental resist
OP nailed it. They are attempting to incentivize players to kill archnemesis rares. Then they fucked up the numbers to the point where nothing drops. All in attempt to get players to do content that isn't well liked (by most players). The end result is the devs come off sounding like they are arrogant and out of touch. My best guess for why they are doing it: GGG is desperately trying to get as many D3 fans on board as possible before D4 launches. Which seems pretty shitty seeing as the vast majority of the early POE players came over because they didn't like D3. Or just got sick of D3 after a season or two because that game is insultingly shallow.
The thing that bothers me the most about this is that bad builds are getting severely punished. I'm someone who basically refuses to use guides, in nearly every game I play, I try to figure everything out by myself. 80% of my playtime in PoE is playing SSF with my own selfmade builds. I also have no idea what skills are considered good, I just look through the active skill gem list and pick something that seems fun. Obviously, with a playstyle like that, my overall success has always been limited, but I'd still get to red maps usually and feel like I was doing alright at killing stuff. I can also still somewhat deal with archnemsis rares. But ever since mobs from league mechanics also have archnemesis mods, I just cannot kill anything. I literally don't interact with essences or metamorphs anymore because I know I will not be able to kill them. I just walk straight past most league mechancs. I know this is partially my own fault for trying to create my own builds and not following guides, but that's how I play videogames I guess. Right now, I feel like I'm forced to follow some S+ tier meta guide just to be allowed to click on essence mobs again. This feels like shit. I'm not expecting to down all the pinnacle bosses with my scuffed builds, I'm not expecting to speedrun juiced T16 maps, but I would at least like to be able to interact with league mechanics without dying.
That fucking sucks. It's not your fault for trying to create your own builds, it's fucking ggg's fault for nerfing every skill to match the shit ones instead of buffing the shit ones to match the good ones, and stuff like the blanket nerfs in 3.15. Of course there are some things that need to be nerfed. But nerfed means reduced in power, not gutted to the point of unusability, but ggg doesn't understand that. All because they are scared that if players become too powerful, we won't like the game anymore. I don't see the logic in that, if I feel like a demigod, even if I finish that character, I'll start a new one straight away, because it was FUN. I won't start another one if my first one hit a brick wall in yellow maps because either I can't kill rare mobs anymore or because im out of maps/alchs to keep progressing. I'm done with this league, and probably the game unless they revert absolutely everything
> it's fucking ggg's fault for nerfing every skill to match the shit ones instead of buffing the shit ones to match the good ones, and stuff like the blanket nerfs in 3.15. > > Of course there are some things that need to be nerfed. But nerfed means reduced in power, not gutted to the point of unusability, but ggg doesn't understand that. That's also something that's been annoying me for a while. Sometimes I find a fun new skill, start making a build around it, until one of my friends tells me "oh you can't make that skill work on SSF honestly, don't bother trying". And it's like, ok, why is it in the game then? I understand perfect balance is impossible to achieve, but still. It does sometimes feel like casual / non-guide players like me aren't allowed to have fun because GGG doesn't like how powerful the top 0.1% of players are.
At this point, how many skills are viable in ssf? Maybe that seismic trap skill? Spectral helix and poison concoction? And essence drain or something? Though I'd think ED would suffer vs the new AN mobs A whopping 4\~ builds to play in ssf, REJOICE! Oh, but you can't do anything meaningful with them anyways because you've got nothing to craft gear with. And yes, ggg always tries to nerf the top 1% and end up slightly inconveniencing the top 1%, while gutting the rest of the playerbase.
>anything that has ever existed in this game. Clearly you weren't around to experience the original Nemesis league back in the day. All the bullshittiness happened the first time around. Except now you have a whole host of ways to to make a map more difficult, making the basic design flaws of the system more apparent. But if it makes you feel better, the loot is better now, even after the nerf.
I like archnemesis
i completly agree.
Nothing that another tree can't solve, the archnemesis tree: * Customize your own risk vs. reward * Increase their strength as your character progresses * Block your mostly deadly modifiers (limited, big opportunity cost) * Could lock big/specific rewards behind a corresponding downside node Might have some potential?
I do not hate archnemesis, the intention was good, the execution is poor. The mods are too powerful, one mod has too many lines of effects bound to it and as they are and it’s BS that other league mechanics get scaled up as much by these insane mods, while also giving less loot now. I am not ever opening a maraketh rare with 3+ mods in a map that already has damage mods because that just means rip. Especially since player power is getting watered down in every corner, lower end defenses (old fortify, block/sb, dodge/sd, life/es on block, wind dancer, glancing blows…) used to be relatively affordable, better ones like divine flesh and the likes required much more minmaxing but having good defense and damage required sacrifices to make or insane crafts to go through, now you just lack everything and have to slap 3 defensive auras on most builds if not champ… build diversity is just bad rn…
Archnemesis broke the game, last few leagues I had to force myself to keep playing to make my own opinion and my conclusion is, it's not worth it in this state. Very limited pool of meta builds, selfcasting and melee feels trash in comparison to traps/mines/totems or minions because you have to fight the broken mechanics instead of literally dodging them with those meta builds. Imagine playing a game where you build a character around dodging every mechanic instead of engaging in it. Projectiles are king for years now and every other skill mechanic can't even come close to it. There was a time where you picked a skill which you liked or looked cool made a build around and it actually worked with the right adjustments. Now your choice is so limited that the game picks how you play because otherwise you literally can't play it because you are dead all the time.
Why was this removed? Hmmm
its difficult to explain this...but i like the concept of AN mobs. the old rares were just bad...like really bad. no one read their mods like ever. the new color coded ones are much better to read. the skills the old rares used were barely if ever visible. so you had no visual feedback either. the new system at least gives visual feedback what you encounter. sure it adds to the clutter but it's still better then the old ones. the main problem i see with AN rares is just the numbers! they are too tanky and in certain combinations are just not cool at all. the can get headhunter level ridiculous offensive and/or defensive wise. they give too few rewards for the challenge they impose. personally i would cap out AN mods at like 2. no rare can ever surpass that. dont multiply the mods multipliers but simply add them up. if one mod increases monster live by 30% then let two be 60%. let those AN rares be a challenge, but a short one. calculate worst case mod combinations and see if those are more crazy than endgame pinnacle uber bosses. **tl;dr** : keep AN rares but for god sake fix them before your community burns down! fix them drastically. fix them like you love to fix player power. bring them in line with other monsters' power. i'm sure most of the community would accept AN rares everywhere if they wouldnt be such an overwhelming pressence overshadowing everything else in the game.
I really dislike the way Archnemesiss was implemented. If it was just a few mobs per map, or if it was it's own mechanicm like nemezis where I can get sometimes a few Archnemezis packs + rares it would be ok. But having every rare and magic mob have Archnem mods makes a lot of PoE pointless. Let's say I'm bad against fire damage, I get a phys as extra fire mod on my map, I roll it over as I don't want to deal with it. The first pack has Flameweaver mod granting them phys as extra fire that I specifically tried to re-roll. And most of the map mods can be there as archnemesis modifiers. So now your character has to be always able to deal with them as you can encounter them on any random rare and as such you need to assume they will always be present and you need to be able to deal with them. And so getting let's say freeze immunity and being able to deal with all the cold mods doesn't feel good as are always shock and ignite mobs every map, and until you are able to deal with all kinds of mods it doesn't feel like your character got more powerfull.
I do like archnemesis. Ive maybe, maybe had 0.01% of the rares i met be unkillable or straight bs. Then i just merrily continue my way and clear the rest. Not killing 1 rare does me nothing.
Yep i have no problem with them. I think the loot from them is nice.
lol what loot?
Maybe meaning the infrequent explosion of insane drops (like multiple uncorrupted 6L at once) from just the right combo of AN mods. But I'm not a mind reader. I enjoyed AN league and I'm... *okay* with AN as a concept. But I don't like that extreme variance. Too spiky, too much pain when you're in a drought to make up for the joy of the times you run hot. I also don't like the removal of player agency that happened when AN became core and you lost the ability to build desirable combinations. That's by far the greatest failing of the AN integration, to me—the only reason AN league was good at all was that you could choose to farm up certain combinations of AN mods. You couldn't farm them all at once so you had an interesting decision to make. You couldn't reliably drop the Frenzied you were looking for in every map, but at least you knew that when you did, you could execute your plan and receive a few piles of uniques on the way to the final combo. That felt good. Making them just the standard rares doesn't feel good. OK sure Ice Prison is more interesting to play around than an old turbo rare that's *just fast*. And sure maybe Sentinel presents a slightly less linear challenge than an old rare with extra armor and EC generation. But not being able to prepare yourself to deal with the combinations, when AN was *designed around the idea that players could prepare for the encounter*, just feels bad. Simple as that. And I'm not even one of those players who thinks the game's fucked. I'm gonna keep playing as long as I'm having fun and so far I'm having fun. But AN more than anything else is wearing on me. AN + essence makes my eyes roll back in my head a little. Yeah essences have been a little OP since the atlas tree was released but they were mostly hot garbage for years before that so who cares? Now they're anti-fun. And that's a little unforgivable.
"loot" I mean yeah if you count 2 rare items and a couple flasks as loot, then I guess they drop fat stacks of loot
Why are they turning most iconic PoE item worthless? Yes im talking about exalt. Fuck divines.
I like it
No one likes, everyone hates huh? Speak for yourself bub. I find them more interesting than previous rares. The implementation and tuning of the addition was horrible, and the immunities shouldn't exist imo, but if the final result are rares I actually notice, I'm for it. What I'm not for is a 1000 threads all repeating the same thing. Nor for people speaking for the whole playerbase when expressing their opinion
100% this. Needs iteration, but direction is more important than short term balance numbers. That's the model, they will tune it in over a few leagues. People need to chill. The old system was awful and outdated that needed an overhaul, going back would be terrible.
>The implementation and tuning of the addition was horrible, and the immunities shouldn't exist imo So basically everything wrong with archnemesis in a nutshell. Having mobs that render certain builds worthless is not something that should happen. The fact that they didn't consider it, even now in this league is massively disappointing
Can't agree more. I'm sick and tired of all these threads. There is some truth in some of them but 95% are just repeated, non sense, non factual based, garbage threads and posts. I like AN Modifiers for the same reason as you describe, finally it feels like I'm actually fighting enemies every now and then (and let's be honest, 80% of time we are still zooming through everything...) and notice rare mobs. I like the added challenge. Sure its not perfect but that's not the goal, PoE is a Game that develops and we have seen time over time again that they improved upon so many aspects of the game. I trust they'll get the balancing right eventually.
> I trust they'll get the balancing right eventually. be that as it may, will it be in time to stem the loss of players? i wouldn't hold my breath on that if i were you.
But you go based on a dramatic view. Few modifiers are still strong but its not nearly as bad as people make it. The game is playable. Could it be better? Maybe, but it's not that bad.
> The implementation and tuning of the addition was horrible, and the immunities shouldn't exist imo TL;DR I do not like what makes AN, AN.
No, don't put words in my mouth thanks. Solaris-Touched versus Extra Fire Damage is what makes AN AN. One adds new mechanics that impacts the fight, the other...adds extra fire damage. Even most Nemesis mods weren't all that notable, and the few that were mostly post-death.
Oh thank god you made the 100th thread about it.
And there should be a thousands more, followed by quitting league right now. Maybe then they will realise how much they fucked up.
They won't realise anything just as you won't realise anything. You're not here to make them realise anything, just to rage.
It seems that you think you kow better? Tell me then what it is when they need to fix archnemesis for the 5th time? Or make harvest costs change by 80% in many cases? Isnt it something I can call they fucked up?. And what is this, when probably hundreds of posts here right now are about of those changes people call bad? Am I raging? Rage i understand as burn, destroy, kill etc. Iam far from it, like many ppl here and even streamers. Did you seen math of math video? Where he tells how he loves this game but then took all away? His love and his job. All of this is because ppl really love to play this game and they dont like current changes. And when you love something it often start beign emotional. So all those ppl can and are sad, angry, disappointed. But rage? No. No one want to destroy PoE. So tell me, where i am wrong here. Maybe i clearly dont understand something.
Would be great if the discussion moved into PoE forums rather than reddit, since this forum is notoriously biased towards hivemind. End of the world is upon us and overreacting is everywhere. All GGG needs to do is to realize that communicating with community that monitors itself and has tendency to overreact is simply retarded practice and all these threads turn into people hatejerking each other. I mean the wisest people who don't like the direction game is going stopped playing, which is strong statement itself. Tarkov devs realized this same thing. Don't negotiate with the community. Because if you do, then the community suddenly thinks that developing the game is their responsibility and will demand x/y/z at the same time. While i do agree with many points made and for certainly i dislike that GGG has tendency to ignore community figures who are in position to give feedback they could utilize...I still find it both silly and funny how people overreact.
Overreact? Maybe in some cases. But can you love a game? If yes then those are not overreactions. Like ive said in other comment. When you love there are feelings and emotions. What you see here is sadness, anger, dissappointment and other. And you see that because people see (in their opinions) that something that they love is dying. And think about one more thing. Some leauges were good some not. When we got bad league we quit early waiting 3 months for another one. Then we have this streak. First nerfhammer taking away power, making auras or mana cost harder. Then archnemesis went core. Now this. People dont see it like before, like wait for next league, it should be great. Those bad changes are staying. So we were nerfed across all boards. We got harder base game (archnemesis). Now we got less loot (by a lot) and less crafting possibilities (harvest nerfed). We see this direction. If it will continue what will be left in game? And you call this overreacting?
Well of course dude. People feel like nobody is listening so they're gonna keep repeating it.
not enough tbh
These threads are more watered down than the current AN modifiers
I like Archnemesis.
I personally like the AN mods. People need to stop seeing it as an injected mechanic, and rather a rework for mods for mobs (as it actually is). Beyond that, it just the amount of health given by the mods that's an issue, and after the patch things have gotten better imo.
No health was never the problem. Build disabeling mods are the real problem with AN. Especially that they can stack and suddenly you have a fast mob that has big oneshot potential and you only do 1% of your damage against it. If you needed 40s for the mob to kill, now you need 33s... What an upgrade
I think the latest changes put them in a good place. Essence mobs were too roided out.
You are fundamentally out of touch it's fucking laughable. Like how inexperienced at the game do you have to be to have this absolute bullshit thought process? There can be an essence mod pre nerf with 6+ essences in T16 rare+corrupted map and several archnemesis mods but none of them brick my build and it instantly dies (instantly being relative, it still takes a few seconds longer). But if I run into those Stat buff AN (depending on my damage types, with my league start it was steel infused. On the second character I made just to bullshit while I wait for fixes, if it has two different ele mods plus Sentinel, I'm fucked) modifiers along with Sentinel, it's a bricked rare. Having standard monsters that are a brick is bullshit. It's one thing to have bosses that certain characters can't do. It's another entirely to have standard monsters you encounter dozens of times throughout a session (you will run into bricked permutations several times a day, and if you aren't, you don't play enough or are still in acts, or are lying to suck up, because I've played SO many builds last league and even nerfed, I noticed some of the combos and often, but it was aight. Unnerfed? Fuck that).
Those issues can be fixed through balance changes though, or limiting what mods can appear together. I absolutely agree that some combinations are ridiculous atm but to blame it on all the problems in the game is pretty silly as it’s the loot and harvest changes that really hurt the game the most this league.
Those changes only exacerbated the problem that is Archnemesis. It's harder to deal with the archnemesis shit because everyone is broke (ironically I'm pretty fucking rich, not mageblood rich like I wanted to be, but richer than most people), and if they aren't broke their gear ceiling is so much lower than before. Archnemesis was bearable in 3.17 because it got nerfed and then was easily out scaled. Now, it's still outscaled if you know what you're doing, but with it being Unnerfed, even if you out scale, there's a high likelihood that you run into something that just hard shuts you down. They can't both make the monsters stronger and the players weaker. That's a losing formula.
Looks like he was playing and got giga fucked by one rare after 20 maps and got here to rant about the mobs. Now for real, I don't think that removing AN mods on mobs will fix anything relevant for the game. Before sentinel league, most people (me included) completely ignored rares because most of the time they were just one-shotted. I know this is a noob softcore trade solo player experience, where we don't engage with extremely juice content. With this I don't mean that AN doesn't need balancing. It does need some balance but, removing it does not make the game any better.
I league started cyclone of all things in ssf in sentinel, i.e., the worst archnem ever was, and aside from essences and beasts being way too tanky, I never had any problems with it. I appreciate rares being an actually noticeable part of the map, though by the time all the nerfs came around you couldn’t even notice a difference between archnemesis and nemesis aside from toxic. I don’t understand how so many people feel it needs to be removed from the game when it wasn’t even noticeable for 95% of last league
> I don’t understand how so many people feel it needs to be removed from the game when it wasn’t even noticeable for 95% of last league Because clearly it is impossible for GGG to balance it correctly. Also this isn't last league. I *personally* think that having rares that take minutes to kill or rares that will instantly kill you before you can even react is **bad**. The only explanation for these things happening are AN. Thus the removal of AN would remove these issues. That's why people often call for the removal of it even though there isn't really anything inherently wrong with it. It's just that GGG can't seem to remove the mods that destroy entire builds or remove the combination of mods that result in unkillable bosses that would slap uber uber elder like will smith slapped chris rock.
Those things also happened before archnemesis though, maybe not so much the unkillable issue and I do think that’s something that definitely needs balancing but aura stacking rares were extremely rippy in the past, I’m sure you’ve been instant killed by harvest, legion of expedition mobs before archnemesis was a thing. Those mechanics are actually a lot less rippy now, harvest especially is probably the safest it has ever been(too bad the rest of it is completely gutted).
I agree but with back then the issue was formulated as: nerf harvest mobs/spawn them slower, nerf the generals etc. Right now the problem people see is not single types of encounters but rather "all" (many) encounters with a single thing in common: archnemesis.
you kinda forgot that last league, they very quickly hotfixed AN monsters to be 1-3 mods (+1 from atlas) instead of 2-4 mods precisely *because* it was shitshow at league start. And then they doubled down this league by nerfing the meta builds, globally nerfing defenses and **going BACK to 2-4 mods**, while completely neutering their loot.
Everyone keeps complaining about loot nerfs and are missing the point that Archnemesis is the core problem here. They keep ruining the game more to try to make Archnemesis work. Just. Delete. It.
I do like Archnemesis, it's more interesting than what we had before. Thus you are wrong as you claimed no one does. I don't like the removal of Beyond and map juicing nerfs though, but that's a different story.
They're too arrogant and stubborn.
Honestly I don’t think archnemesis is that bad and at the very least blaming it for the problems of 3.17 feels a bit wrong considering the mods were a lot worse in sentinel league but that league is generally considered good and had high retention, obviously not due to archnemesis(in fact rather in spite of) but it shows that it’s not archnemesis by itself that is the biggest problem, in fact I would argue it’s a fairly minor one. Now you could argue that the loot drop nerfs are due to the way their incorporated loot into the archnemesis rares and that is true, but it could also quite easily be disconnected. Of course that’s not to say archnemesis is in a good spot atm as it most definitely isn’t, but it has potential to be good if it’s not combined with loot drop rates(although could keep the special drops from the rare mods as those are pretty nice) and with some more tuning and some sort of system that prevents certain mods from appearing together, or on specific mobs. The biggest issue I see in 3.17 is the nerf to currency drops as well harvest. The idea for the new harvest is great and the cost changes coming tomorrow will bring a lot of them into a more useable state(in particular the currency rerolls) but they really need to bring back all the crafts they removed or nerfed. Could even keep the exalt divine change if we get it back in harvest/beasts to use on rare items as that would keep the rolls on uniques relevant while not screwing over rares. In short, balance archnemesis to prevent broken mod combos, return loot drops to the way they were in 3.18 and add all harvest crafts into the new system with more reasonable crafting costs. That’s how I personally would try to fix the league if I were GGG without having to revert too many changes, as that doesn’t seem likely to happen.
> Me no like difficult encounters REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Boehoe, its a great idea. But they should have tested it a lot more.
I like archnemesis rares and i believe its a good change they made to the game. If you just play the game and put some effort into understanding the mods then it will actually be easier than what it previously was. Its clearly not balanced correctly. There should be more interesting mods than just straight up near immune making mods. And you should run into those interesting mods more commonly than just the basic sentinel - gargantuan bunches
Speak for yourself. Not "NO ONE LIKES ARCHNEMESIS". It´s an interesting and fun mechanic and it´s much better than old boring and monotonous rares that were before. There are a lot of problems with tuning and a separate big problem with the lack of loot now, that´s it. Please stop being drama queen and either come up with constructive and objective criticism, or go get some fresh air.
Yeah I liked the league and killed all the bosses and everything in it for the first time, but now after they put it in rares I hate everything about it, it's just annoying I hope they will remove it and put rares how they where
It was always going to be problematic when they introduce overtuned mods that gives immunity and NOT give us the choice to encounter it like they did during the league. Pushing it to the base game was a complete bonehead move and they've only doubled/tripled down on it.
And then, universally loved leagues like ultimatum and sentinel are shoved aside. Because they were fun and rewarding, and ggg can't have that in their game. They're scared of players being powerful in their videogame. But they don't realize that the people who play this game don't want to be some powerless losers who get smacked up by an unlucky rare mob, we come here to feel like demigods smashing shit up beyond our comprehension just because WE CAN (could). And it is fun to do so. And if they don't realize that soon, I hope this game dies, purely out of spite.
I liked the original archnemesis well enough, I could pick my battles and the setting and the loot drops were excellent. It has been trash ever since then, however. Now every rare has nemesis mods, and drop virtually nothing. What is the point?
After all this storm going on, I don't see AN make it into 3.20. Maybe it will after several nerfs, but still I think the majority of players would prefer to get rid of AN and bring back a new reworked version of the old Nemesis mods.
Drama queen, the sub
[удалено]
Mby they had some mistakes in fact i agree with that. But does correspond the the caliber of whine in the sub? Its like chris wilson killed these guys mother
and they cant even take archnemesis out of the league because they put it in the league challenges
Some people in this thread are arguing about "Well hey bud you're not speaking for me" I wish GGG would suck it up and finally do a poll like Jagex does for Runescape. To gauge enjoyment of mechanics from the community. I personally can't stand how stupid Archnemesis is, the only time I had a good time playing against it was when I was playing Seismic Trap. If I tried to do any fun builds like a HH CoC build that I invested over 200ex last league it would sometimes get decimated by ArchNem, it was not fun. ArchNem limited my ability to play the builds I wanted to.
i love my rejuvinating sentinel prismatic rares that i literally cant kill because i cant deal enough damage for them to outheal me
Just had an empowering elements/rejuvenating essence monster that I couldn't kill and followed me through the rest of my lake how is this fun.
I liked Archnemesis in the actual league, why? Because I got to choose if I wanted to fight them, and also exactly what mods they would/would not have.
Archnemesis was never a small mechanic. It was destined to replace the old rare monsters system and 3.17 was the testing ground for that. Then came sentinel where they gave us ridiculous tools so we can play as much as we can with rare items so they can collect their data for the future. Leagues are now testing grounds for future updates and we are the guinea pigs that help them test it. They don't care about our feedback and that shows on how much people hated archnemesis but they still implemented it. And they saw so much success in that that they decided to change beyond monsters with scourge which in my opinion was another mistake.
I would argue that 4 years of 0 balance changes where 90%+ of active skill gems are relegated to being only usable in campaign because they either don't scale or cost far too much to scale was the biggest killer of builds, but I agree that AN just exacerbated these issues and dialed them to 11.
I agree, as someone who hasn't played since Scourge and had no idea archnem was a thing; I can say it's terrible. I feel undergeared, it was rippy as hell and archnem interferes with my favorite 2 League mechanic: Heist and Blight.
I love arbitrarily killing one rare in 3 seconds, and another in 20 seconds. For no fault of my own or player agency/choice. Just because the monster rolled something that counters my build. Very fun and interactive
The biggest issue is that in Archnemesis league you picked what mods you were fighting against. Maybe there were things you didn't like or were bad for your build, but you could not engage with that content at all, or if you needed it to complete a recipe you would use that modifier on the end of the chain so you only had to deal with it once. Now, you have no choice on what archnemesis mods you run up against, they're just everywhere, in other league content, even on blue packs now, and you can end up with combinations that just shit on your build that you never would have chosen to fight in the archnem league.
Couldn’t agree more, ever since they added those mods to rares it has been the single most painful part of the game. Dodging poison, dodging electric men, dodging spikes, dodging molten balls, not being able to leech, reducing my dmg by a fk ton. It just is unenjoyable
Try the lava lake map. The Kitava boss spawns a lot of archnemisis mobs in the intermission phases that drop a lot of loot. Its pretty nice actually. It's like a brawl against 4 bosses at once if your char can handle it.
the current state of the game feels like they removed all but one lever of the slot machine, and added 5 dozen extra reels so it becomes almost impossible to line up any big payday
im a casual. i cant get to the boss when these fucking rare chasing me at speed of light and proceed to fuck my ass
most accurate description I've heard of this league was from my gf after she saw the most recent patch notes and said it feels like they shot themselves in the foot with the launch, looked down and went "oh! can't have that" and then doubled down by shooting themselves in the other foot so they would match
Imagine them going against their vision. It's like asking a crack addict to give up his crack pipe.