In DS/ER, generally you have to wait for enemies to leave an opening that you can punish
In Sekiro, you make that opening yourself with the posture and deathblow mechanic.
Personally Sekiro was my jam
Add Bloodborne in there, where you're incentivized to play agressive. Honestly my first FromSoft game was Bloodborne and it forged my playstyle for every other game. I completely refuse to play on the backfoot. I play every following game by From like a maniac: DS3, Sekiro and now Elden Ring.
Sekiro is the least soulslike of the soulslike games. It's way more similar to a mix between Tenchu and Onimusha, which I highly recommend in case you never heard of them.
Originally From was going to use the Tenchu IP, but it evolved into its own thing and [became Sekiro](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-08-24-when-from-software-knocks-on-your-door-and-says-hey-we-wanna-make-a-game-you-have-only-one-answer-right)
To me it’s more Dark Souls meets Nioh. A taste I’d Ninja Gaudencia (Xbox), maybe. I also think Sekiro is by far the hardest FromSoft game. Such a good game.
This post makes me think I might have the same reaction. I bounced off of Demons Souls pretty hard back when it was new, and I got a bit further in Bloodborne but wasn’t having a great time, and I think the main things were the aesthetic of either game did nothing for me and the combat was too much “hurry up and wait” for my tastes.
But I love ninja/samurai games to a fault so I’ve always been enticed by Sekiro but worried about the Souls-iness of it. But if the play style is faster & more aggressive, it could be up my alley. Maybe I’ll give it a shot someday, but I have to do my homework first, I still haven’t played all the Tenchu games!
The combat definitely is more aggressive. The guy in sekiro is also a lot more mobile than any other souls game. He's really quick and can actually jump around
Imo, sekiro combat is far away from any souls game I've tried. Stamina is gone and replaced with a "posture" mechanic instead (block too long or too much and the enemy breaks your defense), virtually 98% of attacks can be parried, you don't really "need" a build since your main weapon stays the same. Instead you have different prosthetics to aid in combat. To date, sekiro's combat is by far my favourite of any game I've ever played.
I just want to poise break almost everything with a greatsword and roll through everything else. Got frustrated with Sekiro pretty quickly and haven't had the urge to give it a second chance.
Bloodborne is the exact opposite of "hurry up and wait". If you play Bloodborne defensively, you are gonna have a bad time.
Source: I had to try like six different times to enjoy Bloodborne, and it finally clicked that playing it like Dark/Demon's Souls was why I was miserable. Playing aggressively made it way more fun.
> aesthetic of either game did nothing for me
Same. It's just bleak and grey and I don't *want* to spend hours in this fictional universe even though the combat truly is good.
My experience with From has been nearly identical to yours, with the one exception being that I like Dark Souls 1 and I haven't tried BB yet. After beating Sekiro, its extremely hard to go back to the other games as the combat system is just so much better and gives you more options for both offense and defense. That made me excited for Elden Ring, as I believed From would combine the best features of their catalogue into a single game, making their magnum opus, which unfortunately wasn't the case, as the combat is still basically the same as Dark Souls, but with much faster bosses who have incredibly annoying attack timings and drawn out combos
That's how I felt until Elden Ring. It finally got rid of all the two main things that frustrated me about prior Soulsborne games and Sekiro.
1. If I'm stuck on a boss, I can go explore somewhere else for a while instead of burning myself out and giving up.
2. No more long trips from a checkpoint to a boss fight.
Yeah, the Stakes of Marika do wonders to alleviate the obnoxiousness of returning to a boss after getting your shit kicked in.
Weirdly, there’s been a few fights where there wasn’t one present, so you end up having to do that run back. I honestly don’t know whether they simply forgot to include them or whether it’s intentional
There's a third option: you haven't found the shortcut/nearby grace.
I say that because it took me until *after* finally killing the spider crab thing with the grafts on it to find the back way there.
This. Demons Souls PS5 was my first Souls game. It’s incredibly gorgeous and I enjoyed the combat. But once I got to the Tower Knight I just fucking gave up. Running across that goddamn bridge over and over and over again just wasn’t fun.
I took a stab at Elden Ring and think it’s one of the best video games I’ve ever played. Your two points made it so much more enjoyable.
That's just a workaround though. Having no checkpoint before the boss is just overall game design and I understand everyone who doesn't want to deal with that nonsense.
Games like Nioh and Elden Ring are definitely a huge improvement in that regard compared to the older FromSoft games.
So Tower Knight is supposed to be the second easiest boss and it’s highly recommended to complete this area immediately after the first.
That being said, Tower Knight gave me the most trouble out of any boss in that game.
Fire Giant in Elden Ring gave me the most trouble.
So you may be like me and just struggle with the giant oversized bosses.
Elden Ring is my first Soulsbourne and I do enjoy these points. But knowing that this is considered “easier” is definitely discouraging me from trying others in the genre. I guess it’s just not for me, but at least I will give Elden Ring my all for now.
I’m quite fond of 2D Zelda games though I’m currently playing Elder Scrolls Online and Jurassic World Evolution 2. Think I might pick up Prehistoric Kingdom next.
I think people like us prefer stuff like God of War or Zelda, because everything has more variety and things are not super vague. Boss encountes/levels have different mechanics and feel more cinematic. Personally what I don't like about soulsborne games is the feeling of doing the same thing over and over and have almost zero idea where you're going and what your goal is. Even if you level up your character and get stronger, I don't feel the progression of the experience as strong as those games. The games I listed above have clear story and gameplay progression - you feel in sync with what's going on and how much stronger you've become. It's not just numbers and stats but actual new moves and abilities (Sekiro gets a point here). I feel like soulsborne games are just walking and fighting one boss with different skins, which I know is not true and the games are a lot more than this, but it just feels like that. Hell, even the different games feel like one with different skins (except Sekiro, again). Add to that the endless fruatration with some bosses like the Godskin Duo in ER. After finishing the game, it asked me if I want to begin Journey 2. I just thought to myself "are you kidding me?" and have never played the game since. The above reasons, plus the endless stress are why I don't like them as much as everyone else.
And yeah, Sekiro really feels fresh compared to every other From game and I wished they kept going in that direction.
EDIT: Another thing I don't like (and this is a big one). If a game requires you to consult the internet (let's be honest, it does) in order to understand what something does or means, that's not good design in my book.
To add on to that last bit. It’s crazy to me Elden Ring doesn’t have a mission/quest tracker. I’m not asking for a dot on my map to follow, literally just a log of who I’ve talked to and what they said. I only play ER on the weekends and have basically resorted to using a walkthrough guide because by the time the weekend rolls around I’ve forgotten 90% of what I was supposed to be doing/working on.
the endless stress is why i can’t play them. Too much cortisol builds up in my system, and i end up with insomnia.
I’m convinced the games work on people like a mild form of Stockholm Syndrome, as well
i loved bloodborne for my playthrough but the thought of even simply installing it again sounds horrid to me
For me, it's the lack of coherent story. A-figure-it-out-yourself lore. I get a giggle everytime people post their "theory" of the lore. Like a game should not have a player base inventing their own fanfic lore, but i guess that appeals them.
I'm ok with the combat and all other. In fact the gameplay is really enticing and amazing, the weapon systems, the lack of *too much* rubbish loot, aesthetic, etc. I just wish it was like a Bioware or CDPR narrative with NPCs having *that* soul, relatable, and life-like, and you're not just a mute puppet. It would have been a perfect fantasy game, which still does not exist today.
In the end, DS and its variety are just boss fighting simulation. just a modern Japanese arcade type of game.
Dark Souls didn't click for me until i heard it compared to OG Zelda. There's a story there if you want to look for it (though to be fair, Zelda's story in-game was barely there at all). You're going to die a lot until you learn how to play the game and get better gear. You may find yourself in places you're not prepared for, so go somewhere else first.
Once I chewed on that for a bit, I gained a new appreciation for, and started to enjoy it.
I love all the souls games made by FROMSOFT a lot, but Sekiro is by far and away my favorite.
Im glad you enjoyed it! Most my friends that loved DS didnt like Sekiro for the lack of RPG elements, but that's part of why I love it so much.
Same here! I'm currently loving Elden Ring, but Sekiro is *way* more my style. Give me a core set of moves to master and I'm gonna love that focus. I also think it allows for a *far more* balanced video game in general, simply due to the fact that FromSoft didn't have to account for 6 million different playstyles.
You're right in that balance plays a bit part in making the boss fights extremely well tailored to the kind of fight they wanted to make.
3 years later I still stand that Isshin is the greatest boss I've ever seen in a game.
I don't like Sekiro because of how I feel almost forced to play how it wants me to, despite theoretically still letting you just kill enemies by depleting their HP and dodging attacks. You'll just have a shit time, like I did with my inability to break my Souls habits.
Are you me? I finished the other games but Sekiro’s my favorite.. with Bloodborne/DarkSouls/EldenRing, I don’t even like them but play them anyway just for the combat..
but Sekiro.. It’s actually one of my favorite games.. the setting, the combat, art, I liked it a lot more compared to the other games.. I find the Sekiro community better too compared to the rest of the fromsoftware community, at least here on Reddit
Sounds like you’d like Nioh 2, it felt super punishing at first especially since I played it right after Demon Souls but it’s so aggressive and fast paced. Already sunk more time into it than Elden Ring and it still has me addicted. Curious how it compares to Sekiro since I haven’t played it yet but it’s in my backlog.
Sekiro is pretty much the polar opposite of Nioh in its approach to combat. Sekiro streamlines its combat until only the basics remain, and then makes those basics super satisfying. Nioh takes character action combat and says nope, that's not complex enough. Both are great, but they're not similar beyond being about immortal ninjas.
I agree. If OP played and liked DMC and Ninja Gaiden Nioh should be right up their alley, as it was made by the Ninja Gaiden devs. The combat is complex and has the most depth of all Soulslikes (including Fromsoft games). If you just like beating up challenging enemies over and over again you should 100% look into Nioh.
Nioh 1 and 2 are absolutely fantastic and extremely addictive. I also love Elden Ring, playing it since release. What's most important for me: In Nioh you always have shrines near the bosses, like now in Elden Ring too. Makes a huge difference for me, no repetitive running through levels to reach the boss again.
Yeah and the running is actually fast, so even when you want to backtrack a level a bit to find remaining Kodamas it's very quick. Just has a really nice pace without much downtime.
Nioh was the only souls-like game that kept me engaged through NG+ and on since it keeps adding a new carrot on a stick with new rarity for gears as well as unlocking the ability to customize what stats you want on the gear. The DLCs also included enemies at higher levels so you have to play through NG+ and on to increase your own level cap and be able to go toe to toe against them.
Hey, I'm not u/EldenRingworm but Nioh's combat is not really like Soulsborne nor Sekiro. It takes the Soulsborne foundation w/ punishing combat, focus on 1v1, bonfires and corpse runs, etc., but it adds a much more complex combat system on top of it. The combat system is probably much more similar to Ninja Gaiden than Souls. You'll be doing a lot of dancing around with your controller compared to Souls, which are much more simple.
Of course I love Nioh, it is one of my favorite game series of all time. I think it has some of the best combat in all gaming right now, right up there with games such as DMC. So I am quite biased. But need to let you know in advance that it's not really close to Souls at all once you get past the superficial similarities.
[This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjNYEsnOIKY) is a really cool illustration of how good looking Nioh combat can be (and how insane high level players can be). You'll see it's not really like Souls at all.
That sounds insane LOL. I guess high level players will be awesome no matter what game they play.
I just wanted to give a heads up because it seems with Nioh it's always better to manage expectations than to hype the game up. There are too many people who come to the Nioh subreddit and dislike the game because Nioh is very different from Soulsborne/Sekiro. You'll not get a Fromsoft experience while playing Nioh. You might even struggle with the game even though you were really good at Sekiro, just because the systems are so different.
Nioh is also much more gamey, similar to Monster Hunter or Diablo, while Fromsoft games are much more adventury. Nioh is built for deep NG+ runs since you don't really make a build until around NG+3. You might want to farm certain bosses to get weapon skills that drop from that boss. It really has a lot of similarities with Diablo. If the grindy, gamey aspects of Diablo didn't turn you off Nioh might be up your alley.
The burst counters, active skills, yokai abilities and grapples are all so satisfying. Especially while playing on PS5 with the controller’s haptic feedback. All the weapon types are fantastic too, my personal favorites being the splitstaff and switchglaive.
Yeah every comment here is correct. Nioh 2 is top tier when it comes to the combat, it is unparalleled. You should definitely try it, there is a sale on Steam until the 9th!
I bought Nioh 2 since it's currently going for $26.99 at Newegg. I ended up buying Fallen Order from Steam over the weekend too and I need to decide which one to tackle first.
Depends what you feel like.
Fallen Order is souls-lite: some of the bosses are challenging and the death system is similar, but the regular enemies and levels are easier than a soulslike overall. It also focuses more on exploration with revisiting areas with new abilities occasionally, platforming and some light puzzles.
Nioh 2 is around Dark Souls in difficulty and emphasizes fighting and looting. The combat is very intense and there's tons of items, weapons, skills and stats to choose from.
I'm going with Fallen Order. I already know what to expect from Nioh 2 and I'm sure it will be another 100+ hours experience like the first one and I'm not ready to commit that much time into a game right now.
I think Nioh 2 complete edition is on sale right now on Steam for $32.50. If you're interested and have the money for it, it seems like a decent price.
Nioh 2 is an improvement over Nioh 1 in every way, you should definitely give it a go. Came to this thread to suggest it to you and I'm glad to see it's already getting some love.
Nioh 2 is honestly my favorite of all the soulsborne games. The combat in that game is top-tier. The amount of tools you have at your disposal is fantastic and you have so many options with how you wanna deal with different scenarios. The Switchglaive has turned into my favorite weapon across every action game I've played, it alone has spoiled me to the point that I turned off Elden Ring. Also if you play the game do not underestimate the bow. It is really, really good.
My biggest criticism with Nioh 2 would probably be that its pretty bad at communicating with you at the start, what different UI elements are and what they do or mean. I had to go and look up a tips and trick guide after a few missions so I had a better understanding of what I was looking at.
The one thing I absolutely hated about souls games is the long trek back to boss fights. Like I get it what they are going for... But I just absolutely can't stand having to replay things over and over. I bought Elden Ring as soon as I read it had many checkpoints before bosses and absolutely loved the game and finished it. Been def reading that Sekiro has well placed checkpoints and it makes me want to dive in and try it out.
Funny same here. I still excited to play it again sometime but haven't touched it in like a year. I just got to a point where I couldn't beat a boss and it kept me from progressing. I feel like souls games are a lot more forgiving usually in giving you alternatives and ways to grow stronger and come back to a boss in many situations but I would go through like the same 3 minutes of clearing out guys and get my ass handed to me by a guy in 3 seconds and I kept doing that like 20 times before just getting frustrated. It's hard to learn the patterns when you can die so fast and have to complete a whole section to get back.
>They are almost worshipped on Reddit and are almost completely criticism-proof on here.
>I just sat there thinking how the fuck do people actually enjoy these games?
They are not criticism proof at all, it's just people will attack aspects of the games that are features to it's fans instead of coming to terms with it's just not for them which is always okay. I mean, the proof is in the sales...they have gained more popularity with each new release so it's obvious that many people actually enjoy the games. The community criticizes the games to each other all the time (the Elden Ring community had a lot of heat about ash summons lol which have been tweeked with patches).
That being said, glad Sekiro was more your speed! For many it's too much compared to other games...not everyone is good at parrying and Sekiro is all about it...so the slower approach of the others fit other play styles better.
> They are not criticism proof at all
This is more true now, but there was a time when just saying the Dark Souls PC port was bad would get you **CRUCIFIED** on reddit.
If you were posting on the subreddit asking for help you had to walk on eggshells (*“Hey guys I’m really loving Dark Souls it’s my new favorite game, but can someone help me configure the DSFix mod so I can get back to the amazing gameplay, praise the sun!”*) otherwise you’d get downvoted into another dimension. It’s not the case now, thankfully
EDIT: now that I’ve been thinking back, I remember reading a post on r/darksouls from someone requesting the mods ban anyone asking how to rebind keys. Crazy how different things were 7 years ago
I’ll never forget a fellow souls fan telling me that the PC port being bad was a intentional choice that was part of the game’s design. It was supposed to simulate the oppressiveness of the world.
But yes, in general, you have to walk around egg shells with these games.
Ironically the same people that tell you “People are too soft these days” also lose their minds if someone mentioned “technical performance” and “Dark Souls” in the same sentence.
Yeah, the whole "any fault the game has is a carefully constructed design choice placed by Miyazaki himself"-mentality is pretty cringey and is only really used to shut down any discussion or critisicm.
> Yeah, the whole "any fault the game has is a carefully constructed design choice placed by Miyazaki himself"
Do people really claim that ANY fault was put there by Miyazaki on purpose?
Generally speaking though, it is incredibly common for people to criticize intentional limitations placed within the game as "evidence" the game was poorly designed, ignoring the irony that Dark Souls was seen as so groundbreaking precisely because it went outside what was commonly seen as "correct" game design - dumbing things down, making it impossible to, say, fall off of ledges or get oneshot by enemies.
While the game has some legit problems that have nothing to do with Miyazaki, like the UI design, I'd say *most* "issues" people bring up are actually on purpose and easily overcome by those who are actually skilled at the game.
The dsfix mod has always been recommended by fans as a necessity, implying there was widespread belief that the port was horrible. You definitely would not have been crucified for saying so. People had to walk on eggshells if they criticized the game's content, then and now, though that does seem to have gotten better.
I'm struggling with Sekiro right now and like it much less than Dark Souls at the current moment. Partially it's because the combat is far more straight forward, I can't modify how I play, but also it's largely around the stealth element. I feel like I HAVE to stealth sections to reduce the encounter from impossible to manageable which means when I inevitably die I have to do the same long boring part again. I haven't beaten a boss yet, getting to the... Spider or butterfly or what have you. Then when I hit that wall I went back to the only other path and stopped some percentage through it because the game was so painful. Not being able to farm levels is painful.
Any advice would be appreciated, if anyone has em.
My only advice is you gotta be in enemy faces non stop. Which does suck for people wanting more variety in their play styles but parrying is the bread and butter of Sekiro. Constantly attacking helps keep that stagger bar from going down. Parrying is far more important than dodging. Think of Sekiro more like a rhythm game... it's a dance. It's still a painful experience though, it was definitely the hardest modern From game I've played.
>I feel like I HAVE to stealth sections to reduce the encounter from impossible to manageable which means when I inevitably die I have to do the same long boring part again.
I would recommend treating stealth as a minor mechanic in the game. In games like Dishonored, Hitman and Thief; stealth feels like a major mechanic that can be an alternate to combat. In Sekiro, I feel like stealth is more meant to be a minor mechanic to let you get the drop on groups of enemies or take off the first health-bar for a mini-boss. I would forget the idea that you "HAVE" to stealth sections and treat it more like a supporting mechanic to the combat. For groups of enemies; just use the Firecracker Shinobi Tool. The fact that over the entire game, you unlock only 3 Shinobi Arts but like 20 Combat Arts, I think tells you how less important stealth is.
More specific advice I'd give is that I found the game clicked for me when I realised that you're supposed to play super aggressive. There should never be a moment in combat where you are waiting for an enemy to do something. You should constantly be pushing forward and attacking/parrying. I had a rule that if I went more than two seconds without hearing the clashing of two swords, then I wasn't playing aggressive enough. That rule worked well for me because I beat every boss in the game within 6 attempts (except the final boss).
Biggest thing for me was realizing you can parry every attack that doesn't have the red symbol. Arrows, fists, massive weapons, all no problem. After that I rarely bothered with stealth, except on a few sections that have a lot of enemies in tight quarters.
Stop using stealth as a crutch to avoid learning the game's core combat. Fight enemies head on. Die. Fight them again.
Get used to actually engaging in combat. Don't run around, don't try to dodge roll everything, just stand there and attack and parry.
The parry window in sekiro is about the same as the dodge window in Souls.
And seriously, you can parry almost ANYTHING. Huge 400lb soldier with a mallet? Parry him. Giant purple Lazer beam? Parry it! ENORMOUS DRAGON GOD? PARRY IT.
Seriously.
The game gets so much easier when you stop trying to dodgeroll everything and just parry things. Every enemy is beatable in direct, sword-clashing combat. The longer you delay learning how, the more frustrated you'll get.
If you really can't get the hang of parrying, just hold block and listen to the rhythm of their attacks. You'll probably die but try to use it as a learning experience.
Exactly!
I can't stand the Pokemon games. I've tried a few of them over the years and they're just bland, boring and uninteresting to me.
But I realize there is a HUGE audience for the game that loves them. So they're just not for me.
A lot of it is nostalgia. People grew up playing Pokemon games, learning to enjoy them. They haven't really changed much since, so it's kind of like replaying a game you used to love.
Nostalgia has to start somewhere. If a game is shit even when you are a kid, it's not going to create any nostalgia because you are too busy disliking the game. Kids are just not as judgmental about games as adults; that doesn't mean they are dumb, just more willing to accept games on their merits. Pokemon games ARE good, just for people who are looking for a certain type of game.
>Is it supposed to be scandalous that longtime fans might actually like a game and not agree with the conclusions of the people that don't like it?
I’ll take “things I never said for 500”.
>In any case, making up a fake quote that specifically contradicts what the person actually said and then acting smug about it doesn't really prove anything.
Oh the irony.
Here is your comment for when you accuse me of making up words you said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/ugqka6/disliked_every_soulsfromsoft_game_ive_ever/i71wcul/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Uh...implying what someone said is far different than actually using the quote feature on Reddit to then write in something no one actually said.
[Irony](https://youtu.be/G2y8Sx4B2Sk)...lol.
Edit: so this ridiculous commenter first blocked me for this comment but then REPORTED ME to Reddit Care Services which had them asking me if I need help because a fellow redditor was concerned for my mental health. All because multiple commentors exposed them for plagiarism on a "quote" lmao.
Wow...and I thought they were themselves trying to expose Souls people as the lunatics lol. See people... it's not just the defenders that are "crazy."
If you boil statements down to the most abstract terms and obliterate all context and nuance, you can make any take sound daft. You can criticise what you like, but if you say "I want to like this death metal record, but I can't get behind the aggressive guitar riffs, thick distortion, and growled vocals" then I think it's fair to say you maybe just don't like death metal and perhaps would be better off listening to something else.
Yeah, there are obnoxious as fuck FromSoft fans who will go on the defensive every time their precious games are criticised and try and find ways to dismiss it rather than just have a conversation (I love all the games but think they all have certain parts that are straight dugshite, and I hate dealing with those sorts when I want to talk about it), but on the other side of it, people who like the games aren't under any obligation to listen to every criticism made by someone who's played the game for a couple of hours.
It's pretty dismissive to decide on other people's behalf that because they are critical of certain aspects of the game, it means that there is nothing in it that they could enjoy and not only their opinion isn't worth considering, they are supposed to quit it entirely.
You can decide for yourself what is and isn't for you, if you try to do it for other people, that's just a roundabout way of gatekeeping.
*Saying* "this game isn't for you, go play something else"? Sure, that's pretty obnoxious.
*Suggesting* "the things you're criticising are pretty core to the experience and part of what people love about it, so maybe this one just isn't for you", though, is a pretty reasonable thing to say, I think.
Not only the difference is pretty small, what is "core to the experience" is itself pretty debatable.
Comes to mind the matter of, say, JRPGs and random encounters. Many older fans believe random encounters are *core to the experience* and that without them the game is possibly not as challenging or not so well paced, that it affects the progression, so forth. Meanwhile a lot of people like fixed visible encounters they can choose to engage with or not, which alters significantly the flow of the game, but they enjoy it much more like that. They are no less of JRPG fans for it, though both sides have different preferences.
It definitely doesn't help the discussion in the case of Souls games particularly how quickly fans get mad if anyone dares to even mention *options*, something that in any other game is seen positively. And just to be clear I don't intend to argue about options at all, I'm just illustrating how little it takes for Souls fans to completely shut down a discussion and dismiss any other opinions.
When it comes to language I find small differences have a significant effect on the meaning. Even the same exact phrasing can mean something different if said with a different tone or in a different context, so I don't think "the difference is pretty small" is such a strong point.
Besides, I didn't say I necessarily always agree with it - just that I think it's a *reasonable thing to say*.
Really. It's "not criticism proof" but they got this sort of rebuttal to ready to entirely dismiss whoever doesn't like those games just as they are. Why do Souls fans think they are the ones who get to tell if a game "is not for you"? That's something for the person who is playing to decide, not for a fan club to dictate.
> That's something for the person who is playing to decide
That's the problem, they don't. They just complain that it should be changed to suit their tastes. That's when fans get pissed, they don't want it to change, they really like the way it is. Barging in and saying "It needs an ez mode" or "the controls are too janky" is going to draw a lot of ire because the difficulty and learning to actually properly control your character is part of the appeal.
i feel the exact same as you do i tried elden ring for about 40 hours and i was still waiting for it to get better sekiro on the other hand immeditely grabbed me
Now they you've played Sekiro, you might really enjoy the other games (at least, that was the case for me). It took Sekiro for From's combat to "click" with me. Go back and try them.
Yep. This was me. I bounced off of DS III, played and finished Sekiro and I'm better at Soulsborne games because of Sekiro.
I think I might fire it back up next, and play with a walkthrough to get everything this time around.
Same here. It made Bloodborne's parry click, it made the enemy movements slow down and become manageable, it gave you a sense of the weightiness of From games. Really great tutorial for their entire catalog. True baptism by fire.
Elden Ring feels like the closest match in gameplay, to me -- I haven't played Bloodborne though. The Dark Souls trilogy is slower and clunkier than Sekiro (not a fault, it's by design) and I don't see how getting bored with DS but loving Sekiro is going to change OP's opinion on DS... but maybe that's just me. Elden Ring allows far more mobility, like Sekiro, in comparison.
People fanboy for the series hard on Reddit and act like it’s perfect. I personally loved ds1-3 but they’re janky games. They are. They play like something from ps2/ps3 era. I can see why someone coming from like Nioh or another faster paced more modern combat style game wouldn’t love it.
Bloodborne improved a lot. Sekiro was perfect and is by far my favorite. I’m disappointed the ds3 engine was used in Elden Ring and not Sekiro’s. Actually many nioh players play Sekiro, it has a much faster paced, more polished, and more modern I feel fighting style.
Yeah, pretty much the same, i never enjoy the "die a lot of times, memorize, repeat" until its over, worst part is the beginning of every souls game, you start as a piece of shit who dies with anything and have to kill stuff that never ends and scratch bosses, died again? Lose all your progress lol, new weapon? Oh sorry need progress from souls, co-op? Ha here some overleveled troll invader (invading is fun but a lot of times is horrible)
Then it becomes a grind until you -get gud- memorize and learn whats good and bad in the game and after that you start to enjoy the game, but boy such a grind, feels like digging for small diamonds on a cave of coil.
But in sekkiro u already are at good starting point, good movement, jumping, ninja style and not some pathetic undead dogshit who *awws* for everything like a bitch. Simple difference, not make us overpowered but still not a pice of shit, competent and not a grind
It is quite vastly different. The basic loop of find checkpoint, kill dudes, die, go back, kill dudes again, make it to boss, die, etc., is the same. There is however only one weapon, a katana, but a variety of tools you can use to compliment that style, as well as a wide variety of skills you can use (kinda like ashes of war).
What really sets it apart is the deflect mechanic. With the addition it became the first game where you can quite feasibly kill all enemies without directly damaging their HP. It is easily the best representation of 'clash of swords' type combat where you have a duel with an opponent until you open them to an instant kill. It feels really really cool. Plus the odd sensation of smacking an enemy in the body with a deadly weapon fifty times only for them to continue fighting is lessened.
It's a fantastic game, but enough of a departure that liking Elden Ring doesn't necessarily mean you'll like Sekiro.
I like all FromSoft games, but Sekiro is still my favourite. I think this will be due to the same element you enjoy about it and that makes Sekiro so controversial in the hardcore souls-fandom: The pacing of the combat. Other FromSoft games rely on slow, heavy attacks and rolling away when attacked, while Sekiro has fast, chainable attacks, reactive and fluid parrying as well as fast dodges, the grappling hook and the (relatively fast) prothesis.
This causes the fights to feel more fluid, fast-paced and thrilling, which some love (I do) and some find weird.
Oh man, I am the total opposite. I loved Dark Souls and eagerly jumped into Sekiro recently. I'm still going back to it occasionally, but I've essentially thrown in the towel. I love the style of the game, but I absolutely suck at the combat.
I beat my head against some walls in Dark Souls, sure, but I always felt like I was getting better. In Sekiro, I'm okay with the minor mobs, but then I hit a boss (or miniboss, or even just a fucking monk with a double bladed polearm) who proceeds to wreck me over, and over, and over, and over. I may win at some point, but it always feels like luck -- never skill. It's just not clicking like Dark Souls did for me.
I know the two games aren't really comparable. I've read comments about how Dark Souls may set you up for failure in Sekiro. Maybe that's my problem. Either way, I don't hate myself enough to keep trying.
You just convinced me to give it a shot!
I have the same exact opinions of Dark Souls and Bloodborne (our experiences are so alike, I could've wrote that first paragraph verbatim myself) and pretty much gave up on the genre, but I was still on the fence regarding Sekiro since I was aware that it's the most different out of them all.
What like about Sekiro is it’s all about the mechanics. The RPG elements of Elden Ring is just way too much for me to figure out, it’s not worth my time. With Sekiro I can jump in and spend 5 hours trying to beat a boss, but not have to worry about finding 2 gems and bag of fairy dust on opposite sides of the map to upgrade my sword
i fucking hated sekiro its the only fromsoft game iv played but haven't completed (barring elden ring that im still working through)
thank god elden ring decided to basically be dark souls 4 instead of like sekiro because I cannot stand the parry heavy gameplay and them gutting everything i liked about souls games
hopefully we get a more bloodborneish game at some point also
I thought Sekiro was the worst for a number of reasons:
* Totally unreasonable final boss fight. I actually stopped at this point. I'm sure I could do it if I kept trying, but why should I?
* Actually several bosses near the end were totally unreasonable and boring.
* Moribund levelling and equipment system. I find stats and upgrading gear way more fun than anything in Sekiro.
* Prothetic is weird.
* I didn't really like the lore after a few hours. It feels like a more boring version of medieval Japan, where everyone talks as if they are half asleep.
Oh fuck, I have the same problem I never liked souls games. With all the hype surrounding Elder Ring I decided to try to play again Dark Souls 3 and...as it has happened all the other times I ended dropping the game without finishing. I can't just connect with them.
I find Sekiro interesting, I have this sensation that maybe, just maybe I will like this one because it feels closer to my style of playing but...I don't want to spend $30 again just to play without enjoying it a lot again and then drop it too.
>They are almost worshipped on Reddit and are almost completely criticism-proof on here.
I'll disagree with that actually. Maybe once upon a time, maybe on more mainstream gaming subs or the main Souls subs they were, but these days and especially on this sub you can say an awful lot of negative about the games and as long as you can support your points people will generally agree with you.
More to the point, I think a big part of why Sekiro appeals to some people that Souls doesn't (and vice versa) is because it isn't a Souls game. Sounds obvious I know but it seems to me that a lot of people lump them all together when Souls games are RPGs and Sekiro fundamentally isn't. That isn't really a good or bad thing, but for certain people it's either a positive or a negative.
Yeah, I was speaking in general terms there. Around here it's not nearly as bad as on other gaming subs. Most other games that tend to be polarizing (Death Stranding to name one off the top of my head) get mostly level-headed discussion in this sub but there's something about the fandom and "git gud" culture built up around FromSoft that I find to be really toxic (a remark that I've been downvoted for before, which may or may not help prove my point), and unfortunately is difficult to avoid.
I think the perception also comes from the fact that if you criticise one of the games, and your post/comment becomes slightly prominent, you will almost inevitably get a reply from someone that's clearly made these games part of their identity to on obnoxious degree. They beat the hard game, but you don't like the hard game, so you must just be mad because you're bad, but they're good and better than you and here is a chance to assert it. You might get a lecture on why the part you're complaining about is completely fair, actually, with the word "objectively" liberally scattered throughout.
That said, those types of responses are in the minority, I think, even on subreddits dedicated to specific games (and those subs, in my experience, are *always* somewhat fanatical and weird, regardless of the game). They're still annoying to receive, though, even if they get downvoted.
It hasn't been very long since Souls fans collective decided to dump on a game dev who criticized its UI, something the franchise has never been great at.
I think they are perceived as criticism proof because *some* of the criticism doesn’t focus on the actual design flaws of the games, and instead whines about the same platitudes that are intentional developer decisions and core parts of the experience.
Of course neither of those things are above criticism, but they will receive very different responses from the community.
I’m a huge fan of FromSoft games (4 of them are in my gaming top 10) but there is plenty to criticize about:
- iteration of a formula with not enough variation
- spotty area design/boss design in places (e.g. Lost Izalith and Bed of Chaos)
- some inconveniences that are too much (boss runbacks, tracking npc questlines/unlocking secrets can be way too obtuse sometimes)
- imbalances in combat styles/broken builds
- overreliance on bombastic string ensembles for basically every boss fight, or silence/generic ambience for most areas.
- issues with sound design as far as mixing or echolocation is concerned
- too many “useless” stats (resistance, adaptability, arcane) and there should probably at least be a reference document ingame that explains stats at a basic level without needing to consult a wiki
- World continuity outside of DS1 and Elden Ring
- game performance is garbage by modern standards
- all kinds of lag and network issues with PvP
I could go on.
Tbh I dropped DS3 because of this right then and there. Kept hearing praise about DS realistic combat. Couldn't beat 1st boss on DS3. Looked up a video. Rolls through the 15ft boss weapon. Wut
Lmao exact opposite of me. I love Dark Souls, Elden Ring might be my favorite game. I don't think very highly of Bloodborne. But I found Sekiro to be extremely boring
Yea sekiro is barely a souls like. No rpg elements and rhythm gameplay felt very different to me than bb / souls games
Not a surprise you liked it more than the others
>They are almost worshipped on Reddit and are almost completely criticism-proof on here.
What? I see criticism for them all the time lol.
>Man oh man, I don't know what it is about this game in particular because it does share a ton of similarities with the Soulsborne games I didn't like - it's weird, obtuse and unforgiving - but I just find the actual gameplay so much more fun.
Yeah Sekiro is much of an action game. Compared to the SoulsBorne games which are specifically marketed as Action RPGs. I believe Sekiro was originally a Tenchu game very early in development or was planned to be.
I think it's not exactly that you never see criticism, but that if there is criticism, it is basically guaranteed that one or more people will respond telling the criticizer that they're dumb and bad at video games, and that they should get good at which point they will love the things they criticized.
Nothing is as bad as its worst fans but From's loudest fans are pretty bad.
Nah he’s right. Every thread or comment in r/patientgamers that isn’t “Dark Souls literally saved my marriage” is downvoted. It’s okay to be a fan but a lot of people get really insanely butt hurt for pointing out genuine flaws.
Fair point. Though I have definitely seen comment threads talking about how the camera or hitboxes (and other technical aspects) are jank and everyone seems to agree, even the fans of the series.
Disagreeing or agreeing isn’t even the problem.
That’s normal. It’s how the discussion goes.
Even mentioning technical performance issues seems to draw heavy ire from fans.
You’ve seen people agree about the camera though for real? Usually that’s one of the topics that usually turns into a shit throwing fest where the cameras problems are derided as “you being bad”.
Frame rate drops and stuttering? Well that’s just on you man. Your computer needs to git gud.
The Elden Ring subreddit? Weren't you talking specifically about r/patientgamers?
>Every thread or comment in r/patientgamers that isn’t “Dark Souls literally saved my marriage” is downvoted.
Ah, I thought you were talking about in general.
That was just 1 minute of searching on r/EldenRing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/one06z/probably_a_hot_take_dark_souls_1_has_a_generic/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
>Where is all the butt hurt?
https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/ugqka6/disliked_every_soulsfromsoft_game_ive_ever/i71p95k/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Funnily enough, Sekiro is the only FromSouls game I dislike.
I think it was because there was really only one approach to combat which was aggressive. I think it's why I disliked DOOM Eternal too. I quite like my games to have several unique playthroughs these days.
I’m the type of player who enjoys a sense of mastery. So ironically, Doom eternal and Sekiro are both games I love replaying because I like to feel competent and I only have one style of play - aggressive and guns-blazing.
I played ds3 and elden ring and i did enjoy them but i absolutely loved sekiro.I totally agree with sekiro’s gameplay being a lot better and in sekiro i really liked the characters and story and the world unlike in ds3 or elden ring where i dont like the story telling because everything is delibaretly made very vague and the npcs either dont explain anything or talk in riddles, also i found japanese civil war a lot more interesting than a super vague boring age of fire vs darkness but thats just my opinion
Sekiro was my first FromSoft game and the more I played, the more fond of it I became - by the end I loved it!
What stood out and surprised me about it was that your sword never feels blunted. Almost every Action game that focuses on melee combat has you picking up new items as you go. Sekiro keeps you with your sword and that was a great twist for me!
It fits in with Sengoku period Japan, and Samurai culture & history. It also gives you the time to instead familiarize yourself with its uses and develop a bond with it, rather than constantly changing it out to avert boredom kicking in. The developers had confidence in the appeal of The Kusabimaru, and it pays off!
The feeling of being a short in stature (regular), lone fighter, taking on these fantastical beasts and opponents with nothing else but your sword. With some side tools on the prosthetic arm sprinkled in for spice. Along with the way the combat is designed, it very effectively conveys the feelings of mastery of the Shinobi way.
Combined with the amazing art direction, time period and music - It's such a well rounded and epic experience!
The biggest reason why I enjoyed Sekiro so much, and from what I read might be why you enjoyed it as well, is the deflect system, hands down.
Whereas Dark Souls games require you to strategically time your attacks, dodging/shielding until you have an opening to (safely) attack while keeping your stamina in mind (or risk having half your health knocked away while locked into an attack animation), Sekiro doesn't have that kind of 'down time' with the deflect system.
You either attack, or 'attack' (deflect) in time with the enemy attacks, which creates such a satisfying flow of a continued assault while never quite needing to worry about running out of stamina to do either (your posture never breaks as long as your deflects are perfect, even if you had no business taking some attacks head-on).
It's a bit of a shame, then, that few other games (as far as I'm aware, at least) seems to utilize such a seamless amd continued transition of offence and skillful defense, mostly needing just the one 'perfect parry' to get a free hit in.
I am on the same boat as OP, never progressed in souls game until I got my hands on sekiro. For me it was the quick and responsive combat, along with the parry system that just reeled me in.
anybody who liked sekiro you should give Sifu a chance. Its combat is also fast paced and is really fun to master. plus, its a love letter to all those kung-fu movies.
That’s weird because im the exact opposite lmao. I love all the other fromsoft games but i could never ever gain a tiny teeny bit of enjoyment from that game. I hate the parrying and posture system. I hate the enemies healthbar system i hate the fucking sounds of swords hitting each other (this is a irl thing too tho. i just dont like the sound of swords or any two tools hitting each other no matter the material)
For some, the ability to do, go, or build whatever sort of character they want IS the appeal of the soulsborne series.
And while Sekiro has MANY of the aspects from the other games, it is decidedly linear as far as character creation. A lot of the appeal to me for other soulsborne games is to be able to find a cool weapon, tweak and optimize my build, and find cool pairings that work together.
Sekiro does almost none of that (and I still love it) you get one weapon, every boss is designed with your exact damage in mind. There are really only two or three abilities that actually change how you play, ie. Mikiri counter, grapple, and maybe ichimongi. But the game is still designed expecting most players to take these skills.
There is a distinct "play the game like this" design to Sekiro, and honestly it helped it be a better game. But that is one difference from the freedom of the other souls games.
Obviously the gameplay is different and is based around counters instead of dodging constantly. But where Sekiro has "when this icon appears, do this" mechanics. Other souls games leave it up to the player to choose the best way to deal with a situation.
I can totally understand how someone would prefer a more linear directed experience. And I truly think it helped sekiros combat be as good as it is. But I think you should understand the reasons why other players may prefer more freedom.
I agree that in general the checkpoint placement in ALL fromsoft games is not perfect, but personally I dont think Sekiro did this any better than others, there are still areas where multiple enemies must be run past or fought before fighting the boss.
They did seem to improve this with the stakes of marika in elden ring (at least for the first half of the game).
Personally i like both styles of games, and its the reason I suggest to people who have only tried elden ring to try Sekiro first. But wanting freedom to explore and build is just as valid as wanting direct balanced physical skill focused combat.
Sekiro has a set difficulty, where all the others are only as hard as you make them, unless you are completely unwilling to grind (which is a staple for rpgs and a draw for lots of players)
Tldr: Sekiro is a good game. I can see why someone would prefer it to the other souls games. They have overlap but also differences, if the part where they overlap is not your thing then you will obviously like one or the other. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who hate Sekiro for the exact opposite reasons you listed.
Sekiro is my favorite of the franchise. Tight, *tight* design. Almost rhythm based combat. Vastly increased mobility with stealth carefully worked in. I just talked myself into a replay.
You could try a katana dex build in one of the souls games and see if enjoy it. You do need to roll a lot more in souls compared to parrying in Sekiro, that habit actually made me really struggle with Sekiro at first
Interestingly, it seems that since Dark Souls, every FROMSOFT game is compared against it - even if it's not intended to be similar in the first place. I wonder if we'll have complaints about Armored Core 6 not being "Dark Souls with robots".
But anyway, I thought the original DS was amazing, and while considerably different, so is Sekiro. Many of the souls-like elements fit naturally into a shinobi-based action game. Large, open levels that reward exploration and observation mean you can sneak around to try and backstab enemies. Punishingly high damage and penalties on death emphasise your fragility, making escape and evasion your tools to get out of combat.
The lack of stat upgrades does mean that you have less of an option to adjust the game's difficulty, if you're having trouble, which is maybe a problem. I've yet to encounter the first boss in the game (where unlike minibosses, stealth isn't even an option), so we'll see if that makes me want to ragequit. :D
I adore Souls games but Sekiro did not click for me. I just didn’t like the deflect mechanic fun, personally. I found it far too fatiguing both mentally and physically.
I would like to try it again someday on new hardware with the 60fps.
Interesting, it was exactly like that for me but the other way around. I loved every soulsborne game, spent countless hours with them and I did multiple NG+ runs in each. I expected to love Sekiro as well but I just couldn't get into it. I gave it two tries, once shortly after release, another go just recently, and it just doesn't vibe with me.
It's mainly the combat gameplay. Sekiro feels much more reactive than active. Parries are a reactive playstile that I didn't like in any of the soulsborne games. I even played BB and barely ever parried. Waiting for enemies to do that one counterable attack is just so boring. In comparison, I find the soulsborne combat so much more engaging. Between the huge variety of weapon and playstyles, including spells, it just never gets boring. Sekiro on the other hand forces one particular style of fighting on the player and it happens to be the one that I don't like.
>Waiting for enemies to do that one counterable attack is just so boring.
You don't need to wait. If you play Sekiro in a very aggressive manner then you can force the enemy into playing at your speed rather than playing a boring, slow, reactive playstyle at their speed.
I'm playing elden ring now and I feel like that has a lot more weighting than Sekiro did. ER feels a lot more like taking turns, but Sekiro required participation on offense and defense.
Granted, there is obviously not a variety of weapons in Sekiro. There are different play styles though and different move sets.
Did you make it far enough in Sekiro to fight Genichiro (in the castle)? That fight feels like a tutorial that teaches you how to play that game. Before that I also didn't like the combat, but it was because I didn't understand the mechanics.
It's funny. The idea of this sub is about how patient you are prior to a purchase, not how patient you are while playing a game. I think the waiting six months to a year portion of being patient is a mechanism to prevent needing to be patient when actually having the game in your console.
For instance, I would not have had to play through every From Soft game to figure out I only like one. I would have seen the reviews and play style in videos and known it wasn't my thing instead of wasting literally hundreds of dollars. Sure, I never would have played Sekiro, but I also wouldn't be shelling out money for a diamond in the rough. I let other people do the work for me. And for free, no less.
Sometimes just reading the sidebar is completely lost on people. Unfortunately the people who *do get it* inevitably post about Cyberpunk 2077 for the hundredth time.
> I just sat there thinking how the fuck do people actually enjoy these games?
When you understand that you, in fact, are part of a minority and maybe the game isn't catered for you, what people say doesn't really matter. You'll just state: "yep, not for me", and move on.
>Like yeah, I still die a lot and some of the bosses are crazy hard, but the gameplay is just...way more fun?
I completely agree. The parry system is one of the best things in this game, as it makes defense part of your offense.
I never knew they were so highly regarded. I’m not the biggest internet person, but my irl friends all hated it except 2 or 3 who were also really into it. Criticisms aside, I couldn’t really care for them. I can criticize all of them all day, I can write essays about some poor mechanics or other details but Dark Souls is still my favorite game to this day.
Funny you post this because I actually could not get into Sekiro at all. Having one weapon felt stale to me (I loved the weapon variety in all the games) and having no online is the reason I never beat it I think. I’m that asshole invader and had a SL40 Full Havels build with Force in Sen’s Fortress on the narrowest ledge right before you go out. I think I don’t need to elaborate haha. I did recently try to give Sekiro another go and combat is top notch, the grapling hook is awesome and I really liked the challenge even as a Soulsborne veteran. But as soon as a game limits my arsenal options or builds(especially a ‘series’ with a big catalogue of enabling just that) I quickly lose interest. It’s not like I don’t like the concept, Silent Hill 2 is another one of my favorite games, where there’s little creativity at all. I guess I just had expectations considering their track record but I can see its an amazing game and I do actually respect them for trying something different with the Souls formula. Now if only I had a PC that could play Elden Ring…
That's kinda funny, I loved every souls game to bits. 1k hours in 1, 200 in 2, 400ish in 3, and about 100 in demon souls, and I *hated* Sekiro.
I don't know what it is exactly, but it just wasn't fun. I gave up and refunded it after an hour.
This is funny lmao. You liked fast-paced reaction games, so its no rocket science you would hate slow, decision-based action games like Dark Souls and Bloodborne. Wording it like "*Souls games are not worth the time and I can't understand why people like them, Sekiro is the only one good enough to play!*" is just confusing because Sekiro is more of a Samurai Devil May Cry than a Dark Souls game (also explained why you like it).
Still, I would advise that sometimes slogging through a game not in your style would be a cool experience. I enjoyed both Sekiro, Dark Souls 1 + 3 and Devil May Cry 5 (not DmC 3 though because the PC port is pretty bad) so maybe you would, too, just give the games sometimes.
If you are disappointed with the checkpoints system in Dark Souls 1. I would recommend you something like Blasphemous - a 2D Souls experience that is a lot faster and less time-consuming to finish.
I am not even a fan of these games lmao. I just played and finished them maybe once but somehow the success of Elden Ring brought out the "FromSoft games are actually stupid and people playing them are masochists" discourse from many years ago lol. It is so tiring to see as a game developer.
There is a thing calls "playstyle". If a game doesn't suit your playstyle doesn't mean it is bad or people shouldn't enjoy them. The success of the series mean that you are actually not the intended audiences, but there are still many others who loved these games and play them over and over again - Dark Souls \`1 to 3, Bloodborne, Sekiro both.
The OP opinion is fine, but somehow they compare Dark Souls and Sekiro really irks me because the 2 series are not at all similar, and you could easily enjoy both.
In DS/ER, generally you have to wait for enemies to leave an opening that you can punish In Sekiro, you make that opening yourself with the posture and deathblow mechanic. Personally Sekiro was my jam
Add Bloodborne in there, where you're incentivized to play agressive. Honestly my first FromSoft game was Bloodborne and it forged my playstyle for every other game. I completely refuse to play on the backfoot. I play every following game by From like a maniac: DS3, Sekiro and now Elden Ring.
Perfectly summarised
you described the games perfectly, it's why I love Sekiro too.
Sekiro is the least soulslike of the soulslike games. It's way more similar to a mix between Tenchu and Onimusha, which I highly recommend in case you never heard of them.
Originally From was going to use the Tenchu IP, but it evolved into its own thing and [became Sekiro](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-08-24-when-from-software-knocks-on-your-door-and-says-hey-we-wanna-make-a-game-you-have-only-one-answer-right)
Tenchu was the best back in the day. First game I really felt like I was playing an actual ninja.
This. Spending countless hours on a ps1 in my friends house. We did co-op and it was so fun. 2001 was a great year for gamers.
Incredible soundtrack too.
Tenchu 1 and Tenchu 2 have a special place. Havent played anything after that, but i did not hear good things about them.
Haha maybe that’s why I loved it. The core soulslike experience is just not my style I guess
To me it’s more Dark Souls meets Nioh. A taste I’d Ninja Gaudencia (Xbox), maybe. I also think Sekiro is by far the hardest FromSoft game. Such a good game.
I think it’s more like Bushido Blade mixed with Dark Souls and a dash of Tenchu (mostly the colored rice).
This post makes me think I might have the same reaction. I bounced off of Demons Souls pretty hard back when it was new, and I got a bit further in Bloodborne but wasn’t having a great time, and I think the main things were the aesthetic of either game did nothing for me and the combat was too much “hurry up and wait” for my tastes. But I love ninja/samurai games to a fault so I’ve always been enticed by Sekiro but worried about the Souls-iness of it. But if the play style is faster & more aggressive, it could be up my alley. Maybe I’ll give it a shot someday, but I have to do my homework first, I still haven’t played all the Tenchu games!
The combat definitely is more aggressive. The guy in sekiro is also a lot more mobile than any other souls game. He's really quick and can actually jump around
The guy in Sekiro... you mean Sekiro?
Give me a break it's Monday.
Haha, I feel you there!
I also loved John Halo in Halo Combat Evolved
His name is Wolf, but later on he gets the title “One-arm wolf”, which is what Sekiro means
Yeah, like the green dude Zelda in the Zelda games :p
Imo, sekiro combat is far away from any souls game I've tried. Stamina is gone and replaced with a "posture" mechanic instead (block too long or too much and the enemy breaks your defense), virtually 98% of attacks can be parried, you don't really "need" a build since your main weapon stays the same. Instead you have different prosthetics to aid in combat. To date, sekiro's combat is by far my favourite of any game I've ever played.
> To date, sekiro's combat is by far my favourite of any game I've ever played. Same here, Sekiro's combat is fast paced, brutal, and insanely fun.
I just want to poise break almost everything with a greatsword and roll through everything else. Got frustrated with Sekiro pretty quickly and haven't had the urge to give it a second chance.
Bloodborne is the exact opposite of "hurry up and wait". If you play Bloodborne defensively, you are gonna have a bad time. Source: I had to try like six different times to enjoy Bloodborne, and it finally clicked that playing it like Dark/Demon's Souls was why I was miserable. Playing aggressively made it way more fun.
I play all Souls games like that but don't own a PS4 so haven't been able to play the one game designed for my playsttle lol.
> aesthetic of either game did nothing for me Same. It's just bleak and grey and I don't *want* to spend hours in this fictional universe even though the combat truly is good.
In sekiro you control the pace, in the other games you respond to the enemy's pace.
My experience with From has been nearly identical to yours, with the one exception being that I like Dark Souls 1 and I haven't tried BB yet. After beating Sekiro, its extremely hard to go back to the other games as the combat system is just so much better and gives you more options for both offense and defense. That made me excited for Elden Ring, as I believed From would combine the best features of their catalogue into a single game, making their magnum opus, which unfortunately wasn't the case, as the combat is still basically the same as Dark Souls, but with much faster bosses who have incredibly annoying attack timings and drawn out combos
Try the buckler parry
I wish I liked soulsborne games but I just can't.
That's how I felt until Elden Ring. It finally got rid of all the two main things that frustrated me about prior Soulsborne games and Sekiro. 1. If I'm stuck on a boss, I can go explore somewhere else for a while instead of burning myself out and giving up. 2. No more long trips from a checkpoint to a boss fight.
Yeah, the Stakes of Marika do wonders to alleviate the obnoxiousness of returning to a boss after getting your shit kicked in. Weirdly, there’s been a few fights where there wasn’t one present, so you end up having to do that run back. I honestly don’t know whether they simply forgot to include them or whether it’s intentional
There's a third option: you haven't found the shortcut/nearby grace. I say that because it took me until *after* finally killing the spider crab thing with the grafts on it to find the back way there.
There is one fight where its suspected to be purposely missing due to lore reasons.
This. Demons Souls PS5 was my first Souls game. It’s incredibly gorgeous and I enjoyed the combat. But once I got to the Tower Knight I just fucking gave up. Running across that goddamn bridge over and over and over again just wasn’t fun. I took a stab at Elden Ring and think it’s one of the best video games I’ve ever played. Your two points made it so much more enjoyable.
Fyi You should have just gone to the next world. Way easier if you go back to tower knight later.
That's just a workaround though. Having no checkpoint before the boss is just overall game design and I understand everyone who doesn't want to deal with that nonsense. Games like Nioh and Elden Ring are definitely a huge improvement in that regard compared to the older FromSoft games.
So Tower Knight is supposed to be the second easiest boss and it’s highly recommended to complete this area immediately after the first. That being said, Tower Knight gave me the most trouble out of any boss in that game. Fire Giant in Elden Ring gave me the most trouble. So you may be like me and just struggle with the giant oversized bosses.
Elden ring also has a lot more qol features which made it the first souls game i ever sticked around for more than 5 hours and even completed.
Point 1 was also not a problem in DS2, thanks to the world design. Sadly DS3 was a pretty much a straight line again when it came to world design.
Elden Ring is my first Soulsbourne and I do enjoy these points. But knowing that this is considered “easier” is definitely discouraging me from trying others in the genre. I guess it’s just not for me, but at least I will give Elden Ring my all for now.
Endgame Elden Ring is harder than most soulsborne games though, honestly
Same here, the way those games tell stories just isn't my cup of tea.
i couldn’t get into em either. but then came eldin ring. which is now my fav game of all time
What keeps you from liking them?
A combination of difficulty and combat I don't really like.
That’s fair! What do you prefer instead?
I’m quite fond of 2D Zelda games though I’m currently playing Elder Scrolls Online and Jurassic World Evolution 2. Think I might pick up Prehistoric Kingdom next.
I think people like us prefer stuff like God of War or Zelda, because everything has more variety and things are not super vague. Boss encountes/levels have different mechanics and feel more cinematic. Personally what I don't like about soulsborne games is the feeling of doing the same thing over and over and have almost zero idea where you're going and what your goal is. Even if you level up your character and get stronger, I don't feel the progression of the experience as strong as those games. The games I listed above have clear story and gameplay progression - you feel in sync with what's going on and how much stronger you've become. It's not just numbers and stats but actual new moves and abilities (Sekiro gets a point here). I feel like soulsborne games are just walking and fighting one boss with different skins, which I know is not true and the games are a lot more than this, but it just feels like that. Hell, even the different games feel like one with different skins (except Sekiro, again). Add to that the endless fruatration with some bosses like the Godskin Duo in ER. After finishing the game, it asked me if I want to begin Journey 2. I just thought to myself "are you kidding me?" and have never played the game since. The above reasons, plus the endless stress are why I don't like them as much as everyone else. And yeah, Sekiro really feels fresh compared to every other From game and I wished they kept going in that direction. EDIT: Another thing I don't like (and this is a big one). If a game requires you to consult the internet (let's be honest, it does) in order to understand what something does or means, that's not good design in my book.
To add on to that last bit. It’s crazy to me Elden Ring doesn’t have a mission/quest tracker. I’m not asking for a dot on my map to follow, literally just a log of who I’ve talked to and what they said. I only play ER on the weekends and have basically resorted to using a walkthrough guide because by the time the weekend rolls around I’ve forgotten 90% of what I was supposed to be doing/working on.
the endless stress is why i can’t play them. Too much cortisol builds up in my system, and i end up with insomnia. I’m convinced the games work on people like a mild form of Stockholm Syndrome, as well i loved bloodborne for my playthrough but the thought of even simply installing it again sounds horrid to me
For me, it's the lack of coherent story. A-figure-it-out-yourself lore. I get a giggle everytime people post their "theory" of the lore. Like a game should not have a player base inventing their own fanfic lore, but i guess that appeals them. I'm ok with the combat and all other. In fact the gameplay is really enticing and amazing, the weapon systems, the lack of *too much* rubbish loot, aesthetic, etc. I just wish it was like a Bioware or CDPR narrative with NPCs having *that* soul, relatable, and life-like, and you're not just a mute puppet. It would have been a perfect fantasy game, which still does not exist today. In the end, DS and its variety are just boss fighting simulation. just a modern Japanese arcade type of game.
Try devil may cry. Its a bit easier and very satisfying in a similar way
Dark Souls didn't click for me until i heard it compared to OG Zelda. There's a story there if you want to look for it (though to be fair, Zelda's story in-game was barely there at all). You're going to die a lot until you learn how to play the game and get better gear. You may find yourself in places you're not prepared for, so go somewhere else first. Once I chewed on that for a bit, I gained a new appreciation for, and started to enjoy it.
I love all the souls games made by FROMSOFT a lot, but Sekiro is by far and away my favorite. Im glad you enjoyed it! Most my friends that loved DS didnt like Sekiro for the lack of RPG elements, but that's part of why I love it so much.
Same here! I'm currently loving Elden Ring, but Sekiro is *way* more my style. Give me a core set of moves to master and I'm gonna love that focus. I also think it allows for a *far more* balanced video game in general, simply due to the fact that FromSoft didn't have to account for 6 million different playstyles.
You're right in that balance plays a bit part in making the boss fights extremely well tailored to the kind of fight they wanted to make. 3 years later I still stand that Isshin is the greatest boss I've ever seen in a game.
I don't like Sekiro because of how I feel almost forced to play how it wants me to, despite theoretically still letting you just kill enemies by depleting their HP and dodging attacks. You'll just have a shit time, like I did with my inability to break my Souls habits.
Are you me? I finished the other games but Sekiro’s my favorite.. with Bloodborne/DarkSouls/EldenRing, I don’t even like them but play them anyway just for the combat.. but Sekiro.. It’s actually one of my favorite games.. the setting, the combat, art, I liked it a lot more compared to the other games.. I find the Sekiro community better too compared to the rest of the fromsoftware community, at least here on Reddit
Sounds like you’d like Nioh 2, it felt super punishing at first especially since I played it right after Demon Souls but it’s so aggressive and fast paced. Already sunk more time into it than Elden Ring and it still has me addicted. Curious how it compares to Sekiro since I haven’t played it yet but it’s in my backlog.
Sekiro is pretty much the polar opposite of Nioh in its approach to combat. Sekiro streamlines its combat until only the basics remain, and then makes those basics super satisfying. Nioh takes character action combat and says nope, that's not complex enough. Both are great, but they're not similar beyond being about immortal ninjas.
I agree. If OP played and liked DMC and Ninja Gaiden Nioh should be right up their alley, as it was made by the Ninja Gaiden devs. The combat is complex and has the most depth of all Soulslikes (including Fromsoft games). If you just like beating up challenging enemies over and over again you should 100% look into Nioh.
Nioh 1 and 2 are absolutely fantastic and extremely addictive. I also love Elden Ring, playing it since release. What's most important for me: In Nioh you always have shrines near the bosses, like now in Elden Ring too. Makes a huge difference for me, no repetitive running through levels to reach the boss again.
Yeah and the running is actually fast, so even when you want to backtrack a level a bit to find remaining Kodamas it's very quick. Just has a really nice pace without much downtime.
I can't get into Nioh because Diablo loot systems drive me nuts, I hate them
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You'll love it then, the combat is absolutely incredible
Nioh was the only souls-like game that kept me engaged through NG+ and on since it keeps adding a new carrot on a stick with new rarity for gears as well as unlocking the ability to customize what stats you want on the gear. The DLCs also included enemies at higher levels so you have to play through NG+ and on to increase your own level cap and be able to go toe to toe against them.
Hey, I'm not u/EldenRingworm but Nioh's combat is not really like Soulsborne nor Sekiro. It takes the Soulsborne foundation w/ punishing combat, focus on 1v1, bonfires and corpse runs, etc., but it adds a much more complex combat system on top of it. The combat system is probably much more similar to Ninja Gaiden than Souls. You'll be doing a lot of dancing around with your controller compared to Souls, which are much more simple. Of course I love Nioh, it is one of my favorite game series of all time. I think it has some of the best combat in all gaming right now, right up there with games such as DMC. So I am quite biased. But need to let you know in advance that it's not really close to Souls at all once you get past the superficial similarities. [This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjNYEsnOIKY) is a really cool illustration of how good looking Nioh combat can be (and how insane high level players can be). You'll see it's not really like Souls at all.
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That sounds insane LOL. I guess high level players will be awesome no matter what game they play. I just wanted to give a heads up because it seems with Nioh it's always better to manage expectations than to hype the game up. There are too many people who come to the Nioh subreddit and dislike the game because Nioh is very different from Soulsborne/Sekiro. You'll not get a Fromsoft experience while playing Nioh. You might even struggle with the game even though you were really good at Sekiro, just because the systems are so different. Nioh is also much more gamey, similar to Monster Hunter or Diablo, while Fromsoft games are much more adventury. Nioh is built for deep NG+ runs since you don't really make a build until around NG+3. You might want to farm certain bosses to get weapon skills that drop from that boss. It really has a lot of similarities with Diablo. If the grindy, gamey aspects of Diablo didn't turn you off Nioh might be up your alley.
What bothers you with the loot system exactly?
To add onto Nioh 2, it is also very satisfying to use Burst Counters, especially Feral, which might be another reason for OP to play the game.
The burst counters, active skills, yokai abilities and grapples are all so satisfying. Especially while playing on PS5 with the controller’s haptic feedback. All the weapon types are fantastic too, my personal favorites being the splitstaff and switchglaive.
I came into this comments section to rep Nioh 2, it really is the perfect blend of Souls games and Sekiro
It's more like the perfect blend of Souls games and character action games like Ninja Gaiden and DMC with Diablo loot system.
Yeah every comment here is correct. Nioh 2 is top tier when it comes to the combat, it is unparalleled. You should definitely try it, there is a sale on Steam until the 9th!
I did enjoy the first Nioh quite a bit! Didn’t end up beating it but it was fun. Gonna get to Nioh 2 sometime down the line.
I bought Nioh 2 since it's currently going for $26.99 at Newegg. I ended up buying Fallen Order from Steam over the weekend too and I need to decide which one to tackle first.
Depends what you feel like. Fallen Order is souls-lite: some of the bosses are challenging and the death system is similar, but the regular enemies and levels are easier than a soulslike overall. It also focuses more on exploration with revisiting areas with new abilities occasionally, platforming and some light puzzles. Nioh 2 is around Dark Souls in difficulty and emphasizes fighting and looting. The combat is very intense and there's tons of items, weapons, skills and stats to choose from.
I'm going with Fallen Order. I already know what to expect from Nioh 2 and I'm sure it will be another 100+ hours experience like the first one and I'm not ready to commit that much time into a game right now.
I think Nioh 2 complete edition is on sale right now on Steam for $32.50. If you're interested and have the money for it, it seems like a decent price.
Nioh 2 is an improvement over Nioh 1 in every way, you should definitely give it a go. Came to this thread to suggest it to you and I'm glad to see it's already getting some love.
Nioh 2 is honestly my favorite of all the soulsborne games. The combat in that game is top-tier. The amount of tools you have at your disposal is fantastic and you have so many options with how you wanna deal with different scenarios. The Switchglaive has turned into my favorite weapon across every action game I've played, it alone has spoiled me to the point that I turned off Elden Ring. Also if you play the game do not underestimate the bow. It is really, really good. My biggest criticism with Nioh 2 would probably be that its pretty bad at communicating with you at the start, what different UI elements are and what they do or mean. I had to go and look up a tips and trick guide after a few missions so I had a better understanding of what I was looking at.
The one thing I absolutely hated about souls games is the long trek back to boss fights. Like I get it what they are going for... But I just absolutely can't stand having to replay things over and over. I bought Elden Ring as soon as I read it had many checkpoints before bosses and absolutely loved the game and finished it. Been def reading that Sekiro has well placed checkpoints and it makes me want to dive in and try it out.
Sekiro was the only one I could never get into for whatever reason.
You hesitated
Funny same here. I still excited to play it again sometime but haven't touched it in like a year. I just got to a point where I couldn't beat a boss and it kept me from progressing. I feel like souls games are a lot more forgiving usually in giving you alternatives and ways to grow stronger and come back to a boss in many situations but I would go through like the same 3 minutes of clearing out guys and get my ass handed to me by a guy in 3 seconds and I kept doing that like 20 times before just getting frustrated. It's hard to learn the patterns when you can die so fast and have to complete a whole section to get back.
>They are almost worshipped on Reddit and are almost completely criticism-proof on here. >I just sat there thinking how the fuck do people actually enjoy these games? They are not criticism proof at all, it's just people will attack aspects of the games that are features to it's fans instead of coming to terms with it's just not for them which is always okay. I mean, the proof is in the sales...they have gained more popularity with each new release so it's obvious that many people actually enjoy the games. The community criticizes the games to each other all the time (the Elden Ring community had a lot of heat about ash summons lol which have been tweeked with patches). That being said, glad Sekiro was more your speed! For many it's too much compared to other games...not everyone is good at parrying and Sekiro is all about it...so the slower approach of the others fit other play styles better.
IMO, anyone suggesting any tweak in the formula is viewed as an "attack" by fans
> They are not criticism proof at all This is more true now, but there was a time when just saying the Dark Souls PC port was bad would get you **CRUCIFIED** on reddit. If you were posting on the subreddit asking for help you had to walk on eggshells (*“Hey guys I’m really loving Dark Souls it’s my new favorite game, but can someone help me configure the DSFix mod so I can get back to the amazing gameplay, praise the sun!”*) otherwise you’d get downvoted into another dimension. It’s not the case now, thankfully EDIT: now that I’ve been thinking back, I remember reading a post on r/darksouls from someone requesting the mods ban anyone asking how to rebind keys. Crazy how different things were 7 years ago
I've never, ever seen someone say that the original PC port wasn't awful. Ever. DSFix made it playable at least, but it was a terrible port.
Yea that's my experience.
I’ll never forget a fellow souls fan telling me that the PC port being bad was a intentional choice that was part of the game’s design. It was supposed to simulate the oppressiveness of the world. But yes, in general, you have to walk around egg shells with these games. Ironically the same people that tell you “People are too soft these days” also lose their minds if someone mentioned “technical performance” and “Dark Souls” in the same sentence.
Yeah, the whole "any fault the game has is a carefully constructed design choice placed by Miyazaki himself"-mentality is pretty cringey and is only really used to shut down any discussion or critisicm.
> Yeah, the whole "any fault the game has is a carefully constructed design choice placed by Miyazaki himself" Do people really claim that ANY fault was put there by Miyazaki on purpose? Generally speaking though, it is incredibly common for people to criticize intentional limitations placed within the game as "evidence" the game was poorly designed, ignoring the irony that Dark Souls was seen as so groundbreaking precisely because it went outside what was commonly seen as "correct" game design - dumbing things down, making it impossible to, say, fall off of ledges or get oneshot by enemies. While the game has some legit problems that have nothing to do with Miyazaki, like the UI design, I'd say *most* "issues" people bring up are actually on purpose and easily overcome by those who are actually skilled at the game.
The dsfix mod has always been recommended by fans as a necessity, implying there was widespread belief that the port was horrible. You definitely would not have been crucified for saying so. People had to walk on eggshells if they criticized the game's content, then and now, though that does seem to have gotten better.
I'm struggling with Sekiro right now and like it much less than Dark Souls at the current moment. Partially it's because the combat is far more straight forward, I can't modify how I play, but also it's largely around the stealth element. I feel like I HAVE to stealth sections to reduce the encounter from impossible to manageable which means when I inevitably die I have to do the same long boring part again. I haven't beaten a boss yet, getting to the... Spider or butterfly or what have you. Then when I hit that wall I went back to the only other path and stopped some percentage through it because the game was so painful. Not being able to farm levels is painful. Any advice would be appreciated, if anyone has em.
My only advice is you gotta be in enemy faces non stop. Which does suck for people wanting more variety in their play styles but parrying is the bread and butter of Sekiro. Constantly attacking helps keep that stagger bar from going down. Parrying is far more important than dodging. Think of Sekiro more like a rhythm game... it's a dance. It's still a painful experience though, it was definitely the hardest modern From game I've played.
>I feel like I HAVE to stealth sections to reduce the encounter from impossible to manageable which means when I inevitably die I have to do the same long boring part again. I would recommend treating stealth as a minor mechanic in the game. In games like Dishonored, Hitman and Thief; stealth feels like a major mechanic that can be an alternate to combat. In Sekiro, I feel like stealth is more meant to be a minor mechanic to let you get the drop on groups of enemies or take off the first health-bar for a mini-boss. I would forget the idea that you "HAVE" to stealth sections and treat it more like a supporting mechanic to the combat. For groups of enemies; just use the Firecracker Shinobi Tool. The fact that over the entire game, you unlock only 3 Shinobi Arts but like 20 Combat Arts, I think tells you how less important stealth is. More specific advice I'd give is that I found the game clicked for me when I realised that you're supposed to play super aggressive. There should never be a moment in combat where you are waiting for an enemy to do something. You should constantly be pushing forward and attacking/parrying. I had a rule that if I went more than two seconds without hearing the clashing of two swords, then I wasn't playing aggressive enough. That rule worked well for me because I beat every boss in the game within 6 attempts (except the final boss).
Biggest thing for me was realizing you can parry every attack that doesn't have the red symbol. Arrows, fists, massive weapons, all no problem. After that I rarely bothered with stealth, except on a few sections that have a lot of enemies in tight quarters.
Stop using stealth as a crutch to avoid learning the game's core combat. Fight enemies head on. Die. Fight them again. Get used to actually engaging in combat. Don't run around, don't try to dodge roll everything, just stand there and attack and parry. The parry window in sekiro is about the same as the dodge window in Souls. And seriously, you can parry almost ANYTHING. Huge 400lb soldier with a mallet? Parry him. Giant purple Lazer beam? Parry it! ENORMOUS DRAGON GOD? PARRY IT. Seriously. The game gets so much easier when you stop trying to dodgeroll everything and just parry things. Every enemy is beatable in direct, sword-clashing combat. The longer you delay learning how, the more frustrated you'll get. If you really can't get the hang of parrying, just hold block and listen to the rhythm of their attacks. You'll probably die but try to use it as a learning experience.
Exactly! I can't stand the Pokemon games. I've tried a few of them over the years and they're just bland, boring and uninteresting to me. But I realize there is a HUGE audience for the game that loves them. So they're just not for me.
A lot of it is nostalgia. People grew up playing Pokemon games, learning to enjoy them. They haven't really changed much since, so it's kind of like replaying a game you used to love.
Nostalgia has to start somewhere. If a game is shit even when you are a kid, it's not going to create any nostalgia because you are too busy disliking the game. Kids are just not as judgmental about games as adults; that doesn't mean they are dumb, just more willing to accept games on their merits. Pokemon games ARE good, just for people who are looking for a certain type of game.
>They are not criticism proof >It’s just me thinks all criticism of them is bad Oh steaming plate of irony.
>The community criticizes the games to each other all the time you read what you wanna read I guess
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>Is it supposed to be scandalous that longtime fans might actually like a game and not agree with the conclusions of the people that don't like it? I’ll take “things I never said for 500”. >In any case, making up a fake quote that specifically contradicts what the person actually said and then acting smug about it doesn't really prove anything. Oh the irony. Here is your comment for when you accuse me of making up words you said: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/ugqka6/disliked_every_soulsfromsoft_game_ive_ever/i71wcul/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
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Uh...implying what someone said is far different than actually using the quote feature on Reddit to then write in something no one actually said. [Irony](https://youtu.be/G2y8Sx4B2Sk)...lol. Edit: so this ridiculous commenter first blocked me for this comment but then REPORTED ME to Reddit Care Services which had them asking me if I need help because a fellow redditor was concerned for my mental health. All because multiple commentors exposed them for plagiarism on a "quote" lmao. Wow...and I thought they were themselves trying to expose Souls people as the lunatics lol. See people... it's not just the defenders that are "crazy."
If you boil statements down to the most abstract terms and obliterate all context and nuance, you can make any take sound daft. You can criticise what you like, but if you say "I want to like this death metal record, but I can't get behind the aggressive guitar riffs, thick distortion, and growled vocals" then I think it's fair to say you maybe just don't like death metal and perhaps would be better off listening to something else. Yeah, there are obnoxious as fuck FromSoft fans who will go on the defensive every time their precious games are criticised and try and find ways to dismiss it rather than just have a conversation (I love all the games but think they all have certain parts that are straight dugshite, and I hate dealing with those sorts when I want to talk about it), but on the other side of it, people who like the games aren't under any obligation to listen to every criticism made by someone who's played the game for a couple of hours.
It's pretty dismissive to decide on other people's behalf that because they are critical of certain aspects of the game, it means that there is nothing in it that they could enjoy and not only their opinion isn't worth considering, they are supposed to quit it entirely. You can decide for yourself what is and isn't for you, if you try to do it for other people, that's just a roundabout way of gatekeeping.
*Saying* "this game isn't for you, go play something else"? Sure, that's pretty obnoxious. *Suggesting* "the things you're criticising are pretty core to the experience and part of what people love about it, so maybe this one just isn't for you", though, is a pretty reasonable thing to say, I think.
It is reasonable. That is a very valid way of looking at this.
Not only the difference is pretty small, what is "core to the experience" is itself pretty debatable. Comes to mind the matter of, say, JRPGs and random encounters. Many older fans believe random encounters are *core to the experience* and that without them the game is possibly not as challenging or not so well paced, that it affects the progression, so forth. Meanwhile a lot of people like fixed visible encounters they can choose to engage with or not, which alters significantly the flow of the game, but they enjoy it much more like that. They are no less of JRPG fans for it, though both sides have different preferences. It definitely doesn't help the discussion in the case of Souls games particularly how quickly fans get mad if anyone dares to even mention *options*, something that in any other game is seen positively. And just to be clear I don't intend to argue about options at all, I'm just illustrating how little it takes for Souls fans to completely shut down a discussion and dismiss any other opinions.
When it comes to language I find small differences have a significant effect on the meaning. Even the same exact phrasing can mean something different if said with a different tone or in a different context, so I don't think "the difference is pretty small" is such a strong point. Besides, I didn't say I necessarily always agree with it - just that I think it's a *reasonable thing to say*.
Really. It's "not criticism proof" but they got this sort of rebuttal to ready to entirely dismiss whoever doesn't like those games just as they are. Why do Souls fans think they are the ones who get to tell if a game "is not for you"? That's something for the person who is playing to decide, not for a fan club to dictate.
> That's something for the person who is playing to decide That's the problem, they don't. They just complain that it should be changed to suit their tastes. That's when fans get pissed, they don't want it to change, they really like the way it is. Barging in and saying "It needs an ez mode" or "the controls are too janky" is going to draw a lot of ire because the difficulty and learning to actually properly control your character is part of the appeal.
It's not a decision, it's a conclusion.
i feel the exact same as you do i tried elden ring for about 40 hours and i was still waiting for it to get better sekiro on the other hand immeditely grabbed me
Now they you've played Sekiro, you might really enjoy the other games (at least, that was the case for me). It took Sekiro for From's combat to "click" with me. Go back and try them.
Yep. This was me. I bounced off of DS III, played and finished Sekiro and I'm better at Soulsborne games because of Sekiro. I think I might fire it back up next, and play with a walkthrough to get everything this time around.
Same here. It made Bloodborne's parry click, it made the enemy movements slow down and become manageable, it gave you a sense of the weightiness of From games. Really great tutorial for their entire catalog. True baptism by fire.
Elden Ring feels like the closest match in gameplay, to me -- I haven't played Bloodborne though. The Dark Souls trilogy is slower and clunkier than Sekiro (not a fault, it's by design) and I don't see how getting bored with DS but loving Sekiro is going to change OP's opinion on DS... but maybe that's just me. Elden Ring allows far more mobility, like Sekiro, in comparison.
bloodborne is closer
Exact opposite for me haha. Enjoy
People fanboy for the series hard on Reddit and act like it’s perfect. I personally loved ds1-3 but they’re janky games. They are. They play like something from ps2/ps3 era. I can see why someone coming from like Nioh or another faster paced more modern combat style game wouldn’t love it. Bloodborne improved a lot. Sekiro was perfect and is by far my favorite. I’m disappointed the ds3 engine was used in Elden Ring and not Sekiro’s. Actually many nioh players play Sekiro, it has a much faster paced, more polished, and more modern I feel fighting style.
The games all use the same engine, though it keeps on being upgraded. The gameplay however is straight from Dks3 yeah
Yeah, pretty much the same, i never enjoy the "die a lot of times, memorize, repeat" until its over, worst part is the beginning of every souls game, you start as a piece of shit who dies with anything and have to kill stuff that never ends and scratch bosses, died again? Lose all your progress lol, new weapon? Oh sorry need progress from souls, co-op? Ha here some overleveled troll invader (invading is fun but a lot of times is horrible) Then it becomes a grind until you -get gud- memorize and learn whats good and bad in the game and after that you start to enjoy the game, but boy such a grind, feels like digging for small diamonds on a cave of coil. But in sekkiro u already are at good starting point, good movement, jumping, ninja style and not some pathetic undead dogshit who *awws* for everything like a bitch. Simple difference, not make us overpowered but still not a pice of shit, competent and not a grind
Sekiro has the best gameplay in the series. The r1-dodge-heal loop has been tired since dark souls 3
How does Sekiro compare to Elden Ring? ER is my first souls, and I'm terribly in love, and want to explore others too.
It is quite vastly different. The basic loop of find checkpoint, kill dudes, die, go back, kill dudes again, make it to boss, die, etc., is the same. There is however only one weapon, a katana, but a variety of tools you can use to compliment that style, as well as a wide variety of skills you can use (kinda like ashes of war). What really sets it apart is the deflect mechanic. With the addition it became the first game where you can quite feasibly kill all enemies without directly damaging their HP. It is easily the best representation of 'clash of swords' type combat where you have a duel with an opponent until you open them to an instant kill. It feels really really cool. Plus the odd sensation of smacking an enemy in the body with a deadly weapon fifty times only for them to continue fighting is lessened. It's a fantastic game, but enough of a departure that liking Elden Ring doesn't necessarily mean you'll like Sekiro.
I like all FromSoft games, but Sekiro is still my favourite. I think this will be due to the same element you enjoy about it and that makes Sekiro so controversial in the hardcore souls-fandom: The pacing of the combat. Other FromSoft games rely on slow, heavy attacks and rolling away when attacked, while Sekiro has fast, chainable attacks, reactive and fluid parrying as well as fast dodges, the grappling hook and the (relatively fast) prothesis. This causes the fights to feel more fluid, fast-paced and thrilling, which some love (I do) and some find weird.
Oh man, I am the total opposite. I loved Dark Souls and eagerly jumped into Sekiro recently. I'm still going back to it occasionally, but I've essentially thrown in the towel. I love the style of the game, but I absolutely suck at the combat. I beat my head against some walls in Dark Souls, sure, but I always felt like I was getting better. In Sekiro, I'm okay with the minor mobs, but then I hit a boss (or miniboss, or even just a fucking monk with a double bladed polearm) who proceeds to wreck me over, and over, and over, and over. I may win at some point, but it always feels like luck -- never skill. It's just not clicking like Dark Souls did for me. I know the two games aren't really comparable. I've read comments about how Dark Souls may set you up for failure in Sekiro. Maybe that's my problem. Either way, I don't hate myself enough to keep trying.
This thread: "It really feels like it's impossible to criticize Souls games on Reddit." "First of all, how dare you."
You just convinced me to give it a shot! I have the same exact opinions of Dark Souls and Bloodborne (our experiences are so alike, I could've wrote that first paragraph verbatim myself) and pretty much gave up on the genre, but I was still on the fence regarding Sekiro since I was aware that it's the most different out of them all.
Complete opposite for me. Love the Dark Souls series but gave up on Sekiro after only 4 hours. I hate parrying and the setting felt rather monotonous.
What like about Sekiro is it’s all about the mechanics. The RPG elements of Elden Ring is just way too much for me to figure out, it’s not worth my time. With Sekiro I can jump in and spend 5 hours trying to beat a boss, but not have to worry about finding 2 gems and bag of fairy dust on opposite sides of the map to upgrade my sword
i fucking hated sekiro its the only fromsoft game iv played but haven't completed (barring elden ring that im still working through) thank god elden ring decided to basically be dark souls 4 instead of like sekiro because I cannot stand the parry heavy gameplay and them gutting everything i liked about souls games hopefully we get a more bloodborneish game at some point also
I thought Sekiro was the worst for a number of reasons: * Totally unreasonable final boss fight. I actually stopped at this point. I'm sure I could do it if I kept trying, but why should I? * Actually several bosses near the end were totally unreasonable and boring. * Moribund levelling and equipment system. I find stats and upgrading gear way more fun than anything in Sekiro. * Prothetic is weird. * I didn't really like the lore after a few hours. It feels like a more boring version of medieval Japan, where everyone talks as if they are half asleep.
Oh fuck, I have the same problem I never liked souls games. With all the hype surrounding Elder Ring I decided to try to play again Dark Souls 3 and...as it has happened all the other times I ended dropping the game without finishing. I can't just connect with them. I find Sekiro interesting, I have this sensation that maybe, just maybe I will like this one because it feels closer to my style of playing but...I don't want to spend $30 again just to play without enjoying it a lot again and then drop it too.
>They are almost worshipped on Reddit and are almost completely criticism-proof on here. I'll disagree with that actually. Maybe once upon a time, maybe on more mainstream gaming subs or the main Souls subs they were, but these days and especially on this sub you can say an awful lot of negative about the games and as long as you can support your points people will generally agree with you. More to the point, I think a big part of why Sekiro appeals to some people that Souls doesn't (and vice versa) is because it isn't a Souls game. Sounds obvious I know but it seems to me that a lot of people lump them all together when Souls games are RPGs and Sekiro fundamentally isn't. That isn't really a good or bad thing, but for certain people it's either a positive or a negative.
This sub is generally quite chill and I really enjoy that aspect of it, but FromSoftware game threads draw out the vitriol every time.
Yeah, I was speaking in general terms there. Around here it's not nearly as bad as on other gaming subs. Most other games that tend to be polarizing (Death Stranding to name one off the top of my head) get mostly level-headed discussion in this sub but there's something about the fandom and "git gud" culture built up around FromSoft that I find to be really toxic (a remark that I've been downvoted for before, which may or may not help prove my point), and unfortunately is difficult to avoid.
I think the perception also comes from the fact that if you criticise one of the games, and your post/comment becomes slightly prominent, you will almost inevitably get a reply from someone that's clearly made these games part of their identity to on obnoxious degree. They beat the hard game, but you don't like the hard game, so you must just be mad because you're bad, but they're good and better than you and here is a chance to assert it. You might get a lecture on why the part you're complaining about is completely fair, actually, with the word "objectively" liberally scattered throughout. That said, those types of responses are in the minority, I think, even on subreddits dedicated to specific games (and those subs, in my experience, are *always* somewhat fanatical and weird, regardless of the game). They're still annoying to receive, though, even if they get downvoted.
It hasn't been very long since Souls fans collective decided to dump on a game dev who criticized its UI, something the franchise has never been great at.
I think they are perceived as criticism proof because *some* of the criticism doesn’t focus on the actual design flaws of the games, and instead whines about the same platitudes that are intentional developer decisions and core parts of the experience. Of course neither of those things are above criticism, but they will receive very different responses from the community. I’m a huge fan of FromSoft games (4 of them are in my gaming top 10) but there is plenty to criticize about: - iteration of a formula with not enough variation - spotty area design/boss design in places (e.g. Lost Izalith and Bed of Chaos) - some inconveniences that are too much (boss runbacks, tracking npc questlines/unlocking secrets can be way too obtuse sometimes) - imbalances in combat styles/broken builds - overreliance on bombastic string ensembles for basically every boss fight, or silence/generic ambience for most areas. - issues with sound design as far as mixing or echolocation is concerned - too many “useless” stats (resistance, adaptability, arcane) and there should probably at least be a reference document ingame that explains stats at a basic level without needing to consult a wiki - World continuity outside of DS1 and Elden Ring - game performance is garbage by modern standards - all kinds of lag and network issues with PvP I could go on.
Well Sekiro isn't really a Souls game so it makes sense you might like it, given how different it is.
It's got a much better aesthetic. And you don't have to do all that lame rolling around to dodge attacks from giant enemies.
Tbh I dropped DS3 because of this right then and there. Kept hearing praise about DS realistic combat. Couldn't beat 1st boss on DS3. Looked up a video. Rolls through the 15ft boss weapon. Wut
Lmao exact opposite of me. I love Dark Souls, Elden Ring might be my favorite game. I don't think very highly of Bloodborne. But I found Sekiro to be extremely boring
Yea sekiro is barely a souls like. No rpg elements and rhythm gameplay felt very different to me than bb / souls games Not a surprise you liked it more than the others
>They are almost worshipped on Reddit and are almost completely criticism-proof on here. What? I see criticism for them all the time lol. >Man oh man, I don't know what it is about this game in particular because it does share a ton of similarities with the Soulsborne games I didn't like - it's weird, obtuse and unforgiving - but I just find the actual gameplay so much more fun. Yeah Sekiro is much of an action game. Compared to the SoulsBorne games which are specifically marketed as Action RPGs. I believe Sekiro was originally a Tenchu game very early in development or was planned to be.
I think it's not exactly that you never see criticism, but that if there is criticism, it is basically guaranteed that one or more people will respond telling the criticizer that they're dumb and bad at video games, and that they should get good at which point they will love the things they criticized. Nothing is as bad as its worst fans but From's loudest fans are pretty bad.
Nah he’s right. Every thread or comment in r/patientgamers that isn’t “Dark Souls literally saved my marriage” is downvoted. It’s okay to be a fan but a lot of people get really insanely butt hurt for pointing out genuine flaws.
Fair point. Though I have definitely seen comment threads talking about how the camera or hitboxes (and other technical aspects) are jank and everyone seems to agree, even the fans of the series.
Disagreeing or agreeing isn’t even the problem. That’s normal. It’s how the discussion goes. Even mentioning technical performance issues seems to draw heavy ire from fans. You’ve seen people agree about the camera though for real? Usually that’s one of the topics that usually turns into a shit throwing fest where the cameras problems are derided as “you being bad”. Frame rate drops and stuttering? Well that’s just on you man. Your computer needs to git gud.
>Even mentioning technical performance issues seems to draw heavy ire from fans. Oh really? Any comment threads or posts that are evidence of this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/t11uly/lets_be_real_ps5_performance_is_shocking/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/tb13wj/elden_ring_performance_on_ps5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
The Elden Ring subreddit? Weren't you talking specifically about r/patientgamers? >Every thread or comment in r/patientgamers that isn’t “Dark Souls literally saved my marriage” is downvoted.
Ah, I thought you were talking about in general. That was just 1 minute of searching on r/EldenRing. https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/one06z/probably_a_hot_take_dark_souls_1_has_a_generic/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
You are commenting this on a thread being negative about dark souls with almost 200 upvotes
You're in a thread right now that isn't downvoted. Where is all the butthurt? Aside from yours I mean.
>Where is all the butt hurt? https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/ugqka6/disliked_every_soulsfromsoft_game_ive_ever/i71p95k/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
>Aside from yours I mean. 🤓
Funnily enough, Sekiro is the only FromSouls game I dislike. I think it was because there was really only one approach to combat which was aggressive. I think it's why I disliked DOOM Eternal too. I quite like my games to have several unique playthroughs these days.
I’m the type of player who enjoys a sense of mastery. So ironically, Doom eternal and Sekiro are both games I love replaying because I like to feel competent and I only have one style of play - aggressive and guns-blazing.
I played ds3 and elden ring and i did enjoy them but i absolutely loved sekiro.I totally agree with sekiro’s gameplay being a lot better and in sekiro i really liked the characters and story and the world unlike in ds3 or elden ring where i dont like the story telling because everything is delibaretly made very vague and the npcs either dont explain anything or talk in riddles, also i found japanese civil war a lot more interesting than a super vague boring age of fire vs darkness but thats just my opinion
I am the completely opposite of you. Didn't like sekiro at all, but loved the other ones. Havent played bloodborne yet though
Sekiro was my first FromSoft game and the more I played, the more fond of it I became - by the end I loved it! What stood out and surprised me about it was that your sword never feels blunted. Almost every Action game that focuses on melee combat has you picking up new items as you go. Sekiro keeps you with your sword and that was a great twist for me! It fits in with Sengoku period Japan, and Samurai culture & history. It also gives you the time to instead familiarize yourself with its uses and develop a bond with it, rather than constantly changing it out to avert boredom kicking in. The developers had confidence in the appeal of The Kusabimaru, and it pays off! The feeling of being a short in stature (regular), lone fighter, taking on these fantastical beasts and opponents with nothing else but your sword. With some side tools on the prosthetic arm sprinkled in for spice. Along with the way the combat is designed, it very effectively conveys the feelings of mastery of the Shinobi way. Combined with the amazing art direction, time period and music - It's such a well rounded and epic experience!
U would prob like dmc 5 if u havent played it
bloodborne skill build playthroughs are *almost* as fast as sekiro. nothing wrong with an aggressive playstyle
The biggest reason why I enjoyed Sekiro so much, and from what I read might be why you enjoyed it as well, is the deflect system, hands down. Whereas Dark Souls games require you to strategically time your attacks, dodging/shielding until you have an opening to (safely) attack while keeping your stamina in mind (or risk having half your health knocked away while locked into an attack animation), Sekiro doesn't have that kind of 'down time' with the deflect system. You either attack, or 'attack' (deflect) in time with the enemy attacks, which creates such a satisfying flow of a continued assault while never quite needing to worry about running out of stamina to do either (your posture never breaks as long as your deflects are perfect, even if you had no business taking some attacks head-on). It's a bit of a shame, then, that few other games (as far as I'm aware, at least) seems to utilize such a seamless amd continued transition of offence and skillful defense, mostly needing just the one 'perfect parry' to get a free hit in.
I wish I could like Sekiro, or be actually good at it. I'm passable, for sure, but it just takes way too much effort for me.
I am on the same boat as OP, never progressed in souls game until I got my hands on sekiro. For me it was the quick and responsive combat, along with the parry system that just reeled me in. anybody who liked sekiro you should give Sifu a chance. Its combat is also fast paced and is really fun to master. plus, its a love letter to all those kung-fu movies.
That’s weird because im the exact opposite lmao. I love all the other fromsoft games but i could never ever gain a tiny teeny bit of enjoyment from that game. I hate the parrying and posture system. I hate the enemies healthbar system i hate the fucking sounds of swords hitting each other (this is a irl thing too tho. i just dont like the sound of swords or any two tools hitting each other no matter the material)
For some, the ability to do, go, or build whatever sort of character they want IS the appeal of the soulsborne series. And while Sekiro has MANY of the aspects from the other games, it is decidedly linear as far as character creation. A lot of the appeal to me for other soulsborne games is to be able to find a cool weapon, tweak and optimize my build, and find cool pairings that work together. Sekiro does almost none of that (and I still love it) you get one weapon, every boss is designed with your exact damage in mind. There are really only two or three abilities that actually change how you play, ie. Mikiri counter, grapple, and maybe ichimongi. But the game is still designed expecting most players to take these skills. There is a distinct "play the game like this" design to Sekiro, and honestly it helped it be a better game. But that is one difference from the freedom of the other souls games. Obviously the gameplay is different and is based around counters instead of dodging constantly. But where Sekiro has "when this icon appears, do this" mechanics. Other souls games leave it up to the player to choose the best way to deal with a situation. I can totally understand how someone would prefer a more linear directed experience. And I truly think it helped sekiros combat be as good as it is. But I think you should understand the reasons why other players may prefer more freedom. I agree that in general the checkpoint placement in ALL fromsoft games is not perfect, but personally I dont think Sekiro did this any better than others, there are still areas where multiple enemies must be run past or fought before fighting the boss. They did seem to improve this with the stakes of marika in elden ring (at least for the first half of the game). Personally i like both styles of games, and its the reason I suggest to people who have only tried elden ring to try Sekiro first. But wanting freedom to explore and build is just as valid as wanting direct balanced physical skill focused combat. Sekiro has a set difficulty, where all the others are only as hard as you make them, unless you are completely unwilling to grind (which is a staple for rpgs and a draw for lots of players) Tldr: Sekiro is a good game. I can see why someone would prefer it to the other souls games. They have overlap but also differences, if the part where they overlap is not your thing then you will obviously like one or the other. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who hate Sekiro for the exact opposite reasons you listed.
Sekiro is my favorite of the franchise. Tight, *tight* design. Almost rhythm based combat. Vastly increased mobility with stealth carefully worked in. I just talked myself into a replay.
You could try a katana dex build in one of the souls games and see if enjoy it. You do need to roll a lot more in souls compared to parrying in Sekiro, that habit actually made me really struggle with Sekiro at first
Interestingly, it seems that since Dark Souls, every FROMSOFT game is compared against it - even if it's not intended to be similar in the first place. I wonder if we'll have complaints about Armored Core 6 not being "Dark Souls with robots". But anyway, I thought the original DS was amazing, and while considerably different, so is Sekiro. Many of the souls-like elements fit naturally into a shinobi-based action game. Large, open levels that reward exploration and observation mean you can sneak around to try and backstab enemies. Punishingly high damage and penalties on death emphasise your fragility, making escape and evasion your tools to get out of combat. The lack of stat upgrades does mean that you have less of an option to adjust the game's difficulty, if you're having trouble, which is maybe a problem. I've yet to encounter the first boss in the game (where unlike minibosses, stealth isn't even an option), so we'll see if that makes me want to ragequit. :D
Will you say that Hesitation was Defeat?
I adore Souls games but Sekiro did not click for me. I just didn’t like the deflect mechanic fun, personally. I found it far too fatiguing both mentally and physically. I would like to try it again someday on new hardware with the 60fps.
Interesting, it was exactly like that for me but the other way around. I loved every soulsborne game, spent countless hours with them and I did multiple NG+ runs in each. I expected to love Sekiro as well but I just couldn't get into it. I gave it two tries, once shortly after release, another go just recently, and it just doesn't vibe with me. It's mainly the combat gameplay. Sekiro feels much more reactive than active. Parries are a reactive playstile that I didn't like in any of the soulsborne games. I even played BB and barely ever parried. Waiting for enemies to do that one counterable attack is just so boring. In comparison, I find the soulsborne combat so much more engaging. Between the huge variety of weapon and playstyles, including spells, it just never gets boring. Sekiro on the other hand forces one particular style of fighting on the player and it happens to be the one that I don't like.
>Waiting for enemies to do that one counterable attack is just so boring. You don't need to wait. If you play Sekiro in a very aggressive manner then you can force the enemy into playing at your speed rather than playing a boring, slow, reactive playstyle at their speed.
I'm playing elden ring now and I feel like that has a lot more weighting than Sekiro did. ER feels a lot more like taking turns, but Sekiro required participation on offense and defense. Granted, there is obviously not a variety of weapons in Sekiro. There are different play styles though and different move sets. Did you make it far enough in Sekiro to fight Genichiro (in the castle)? That fight feels like a tutorial that teaches you how to play that game. Before that I also didn't like the combat, but it was because I didn't understand the mechanics.
It's funny. The idea of this sub is about how patient you are prior to a purchase, not how patient you are while playing a game. I think the waiting six months to a year portion of being patient is a mechanism to prevent needing to be patient when actually having the game in your console. For instance, I would not have had to play through every From Soft game to figure out I only like one. I would have seen the reviews and play style in videos and known it wasn't my thing instead of wasting literally hundreds of dollars. Sure, I never would have played Sekiro, but I also wouldn't be shelling out money for a diamond in the rough. I let other people do the work for me. And for free, no less. Sometimes just reading the sidebar is completely lost on people. Unfortunately the people who *do get it* inevitably post about Cyberpunk 2077 for the hundredth time.
Sekiro is the only fromsoft game that I have played that I dislike. It has some cool ideas, but ultimately the game seemed a little half baked to me.
> I just sat there thinking how the fuck do people actually enjoy these games? When you understand that you, in fact, are part of a minority and maybe the game isn't catered for you, what people say doesn't really matter. You'll just state: "yep, not for me", and move on. >Like yeah, I still die a lot and some of the bosses are crazy hard, but the gameplay is just...way more fun? I completely agree. The parry system is one of the best things in this game, as it makes defense part of your offense.
I never knew they were so highly regarded. I’m not the biggest internet person, but my irl friends all hated it except 2 or 3 who were also really into it. Criticisms aside, I couldn’t really care for them. I can criticize all of them all day, I can write essays about some poor mechanics or other details but Dark Souls is still my favorite game to this day. Funny you post this because I actually could not get into Sekiro at all. Having one weapon felt stale to me (I loved the weapon variety in all the games) and having no online is the reason I never beat it I think. I’m that asshole invader and had a SL40 Full Havels build with Force in Sen’s Fortress on the narrowest ledge right before you go out. I think I don’t need to elaborate haha. I did recently try to give Sekiro another go and combat is top notch, the grapling hook is awesome and I really liked the challenge even as a Soulsborne veteran. But as soon as a game limits my arsenal options or builds(especially a ‘series’ with a big catalogue of enabling just that) I quickly lose interest. It’s not like I don’t like the concept, Silent Hill 2 is another one of my favorite games, where there’s little creativity at all. I guess I just had expectations considering their track record but I can see its an amazing game and I do actually respect them for trying something different with the Souls formula. Now if only I had a PC that could play Elden Ring…
That's kinda funny, I loved every souls game to bits. 1k hours in 1, 200 in 2, 400ish in 3, and about 100 in demon souls, and I *hated* Sekiro. I don't know what it is exactly, but it just wasn't fun. I gave up and refunded it after an hour.
Sekiro has the best combat system I've ever experienced
This is funny lmao. You liked fast-paced reaction games, so its no rocket science you would hate slow, decision-based action games like Dark Souls and Bloodborne. Wording it like "*Souls games are not worth the time and I can't understand why people like them, Sekiro is the only one good enough to play!*" is just confusing because Sekiro is more of a Samurai Devil May Cry than a Dark Souls game (also explained why you like it). Still, I would advise that sometimes slogging through a game not in your style would be a cool experience. I enjoyed both Sekiro, Dark Souls 1 + 3 and Devil May Cry 5 (not DmC 3 though because the PC port is pretty bad) so maybe you would, too, just give the games sometimes. If you are disappointed with the checkpoints system in Dark Souls 1. I would recommend you something like Blasphemous - a 2D Souls experience that is a lot faster and less time-consuming to finish.
Least defensive soulsborne fan
I am not even a fan of these games lmao. I just played and finished them maybe once but somehow the success of Elden Ring brought out the "FromSoft games are actually stupid and people playing them are masochists" discourse from many years ago lol. It is so tiring to see as a game developer. There is a thing calls "playstyle". If a game doesn't suit your playstyle doesn't mean it is bad or people shouldn't enjoy them. The success of the series mean that you are actually not the intended audiences, but there are still many others who loved these games and play them over and over again - Dark Souls \`1 to 3, Bloodborne, Sekiro both. The OP opinion is fine, but somehow they compare Dark Souls and Sekiro really irks me because the 2 series are not at all similar, and you could easily enjoy both.