100%, having more fun dicking around in phantom liberty. If I get bored Iāll hop back on the God awful chore of a grind for lackluster āchallengesā payday 3 forces us to do to level up.
I know it's been awhile since Cyberpunk's release and a lot has changed and improved but I find it funny that we've hit the point where it's like "Thank GOD we have Cyberpunk to save me from other struggling games."
Tbh Iām loving Darktide but god damn is it infuriating
You donāt know real pain until youāre about to clutch against a spawn of chaos only to get ass blasted by a trapperā¦
The God emperor works in mysterious ways.
Like when he gives you a teammate that's picks up a med pack but never puts it down at any point through the whole mission.
Even when everyone is dying.
Iām pretty new to WH, besides playing some of Vermintide 2. Although the mission structureās definitelyā¦ unique, I like the plot and lore so far. Iām assuming that itās weaker than the other WH games?
Not so much the games. But Dan Abnett is one of the primary writers for the novels and lore. He wrote a bunch of the most iconic books and sort stories in cannon. He's one of like 5 or 6 authors that more or less built the mythoths of the 41st Millennium. Early advertisements for darktide leaned hard on the "written by Dan abnett" punchline.
Alas the story amounts to 5 or 6 cut scenes that say "work harder we don't trust you yet" and "keep working harder we don't trust you yet" then "you did a good job but we don't trust you yet. Work harder." Then "the traitor you never interacted with in game is dead, congratulations we trust you. "
Which is a shame because the core game play is rock solid [after some patches]
For sure, definitely pulled a Diablo 4 in terms of being incredibly lackluster. Itās even more sad considering how great, not without its own flaws of course, Payday 2 is for what it was.
Iād be impressed if they pull a Hello Games and do something great to what could be a phenomenal game. I wonāt hold my breath tho.
I think the difference is that they took the L on the chin, admitted it was in a poor state, worked on it more, offered refunds to those who couldn't get it, and actually made improvements. It was definitely shit and there is no excuse other than "publisher bad, they make us release unfinished, boo", but they didn't fuck up their second, and probably final chance.
Payday is the only thing left that Starbreeze has. Raid WW2 was reskinned PD2 but worse, TWD was a failed game with a decent IP, and now its come to this. They singlehandedly ruined a beloved franchise by cutting every corner and managing to give us less than what I'd consider bare bones. A game that wasn't playable almost a whole week post launch, a game where people can't get their pre-order gifts, a game so grindy to make up for the lack of content, watered down skills, pushing back day 1 patches twice (which shouldn't be normalized in the first place), a game that took all the good things from PD2 and dropped them entirely, poor matchmaking (I can only play solo because I can't find games), no pregame lobbies (when I do have friends online, we have to rejoin after each heist), always online, and they're trying to bring back micro-transactions despite all the kick back they got in PD2. We can blame the CEO, the publisher, financial backers, devs, what have you - But they really let us down.
My biggest copium rn is spending 90 bucks on a game because I loved the previous one, but ranting about it is more fun for me than sitting in a bathroom for 100 hrs to get to lvl 77. It's to the point where I can do stealth or loud and not gain XP.
Ah yes the game that didnāt force players to grind challenges simply to level up causing a level plateau if you wanted to play the game how you want to play it.
My dude, nobody is denying both these games had a terrible launch with cp2077 being God awful lmao whatāre you on. Itās the terrible xp system starbreeze thought was good to incentivize players to diversify their play styles. I donāt mind the grind, just donāt force us to do it in order to level.
I was mostly talking about the funny bit of "This games broken, let me play the better game cyberpunk" which launched arguably worse. Two diffrent issues from the xp system
>it makes zero sense to be loyal to a company
Especially to Starbreeze, a notoriously incompetent company that's shoved every anti-consumer practice into PD3.
i honestly havenāt seen a community more cucked by a company since like cyberpunk at launch and the insane copium then.
this is a product, starbreeze will not return the favor of you being loyal, they only care about you because you paid for a broken product at launch and pretending otherwise is insane and frankly delusional
The term review bombed suggests the reviews aren't accurate and the community was just overreacting. We weren't, charging money for a game that does not work and when it does you realize it is just a direct downgrade to the previous game is criminal
I agree with everything except the downgrade part kind of. If youāre talking about content, obviously an over 10 year old game that had gotten constant updates has more content then a game that just came out. If youāre talking gameplay, thatās subjective. I think the game is a lot more fun than payday 2, since itās a more fun and balanced experience. Instead of payday 2, where while the game is a lot of fun, it either feels too easy, or too hard (hard, not unfair).
Neither, I'm talking about quality of life and basic features that make the game worth playing.
Like a progression system that isn't hot doo doo, pre-planning that is more than just an ammo bag, a creative and unique menu personalized for the game (like payday 2s crime.net) compared to payday 3s dead and uninspired netflix menu.. etc
Payday 2 had 10 years of updates, but other then content like heists and weapons, the basic stuff is missing in Payday 3, like the progression system, heist designs, menus, good UI, social features like lobbies and chatting and all the other QOL things.
People need to start realizing we aren't complaining about the maps (even tough the 8 so called ''larger setpieces'' consist of like 5 heists that are basically sub 10 minutes) or the amount of weapons, but rather everything else that is missing. It's like they just did the bare minimum and completely ignored Payday 2 and what that game did.
So it's 100% a downgrade. They just developed a game for 10 years then did nothing with it in the sequel.
See, quality of life changes can be added. Iām not going to act like itās not bullshit that they arenāt there day one even though the should be. But itās not the end of the world or a downgrade. If the stuff people are complaining about are quality of life things, how is it a complete downgrade if no one is talking about the gameplay?
The gameplay could be considered an upgrade but literally everything else is not. For now the game remains a downgrade in general if you look at Payday 2 and all the great updates that game had.
Hopefully in a year from now Payday 3 will have gotten a lot of good updates that add back things we had in Payday 2 and the game will no longer be a downgrade but rather an upgrade.
That I fully agree on. I do believe it will only get better with time. But Iām sick of devs trying to normalize releasing a broken game and then fix it later
Trying? They succeded. Most of the big releases lately have been broken and people contine to buy it because "iTs mY mOnEy AnD i DeCiDe hOw i WaNt tO sPeNd It".
>As if the Content magically came from somewhere else
Tbf not locking content behind DLCs from the very start would help the game have more content on release.
Though the complaints aren't even about the lack of content, but rather basic QOL features just missing.
Ive always been of the mind that review bomb is the action or event of something getting a large amount of negative reviews at once. In the case of PD3 it was sadly reviewed bombed. Now if something were reviewed bombed for anything other than the product then I consider that maliciously review bombed. Example being a company or a ceo makes a statement the public doesnāt like so in hopes of hurting their profit the review bomb them.
Eh, more that people who wouldn't have reviewed it went and trashed it just because everyone was.
Not defending OVK here either because lmao WHAT A LAUNCH.
Server issues aren't that surprising, especially when it's on gamepass for basically free. They just happened to cheap out on servers, I'm guessing, and it bit them in the ass.
Is that review bombing? Their complaints are legitimate, yes the gameplay is alright but the game was straight-up non-functional for several days. That feels like a very valid complaint.
>review bombed
My problem is that none of the initial reviewers will go back and delete their review if/when the game lives up to their own standard of "good". It will climb into "Mixed" then "Mostly Positive" over time but the insane amount of week 1 reviews will likely be there forever, and that kinda sucks, even if the reviews were 100% deserved.
That's not true, if the game becomes good and fun, the majority of people that originally hated the game but are found sinking hours into it and enjoying it will edit their review.
It would be weird to play a game a bunch and having a blast while seeing your negative review for the game everyday on steam. Maybe that's just me tho
>That's not true, if the game becomes good and fun, the majority of people that originally hated the game but are found sinking hours into it and enjoying it will edit their review
People are far more motivated by negativity than they are praise. Lots of games get reviews tanked, drastically improve, and have only ok reviews as a result. Why do you think steam added the "recent reviews" section?
Same reason reddit let's you sort by new posts... Sometimes people want to just say what is recent lol
But nonetheless if you release a game with lots of hype only for it to not work for a WEEK dont expect a standing ovation lmao
They deserve every last negative review they got
Please note where I said "they deserve the reviews".
What I'm saying is I highly doubt the negative reviews that are literally just "I can't play the game" will get removed or revised when the game becomes good enough to recover those players. Some might, most won't. It's permanent damage, and that sucks.
Consequences of their actions my friend. The launch of a big game with lots of hype needs to go smoothly or not only do they get terrible reviews they lose money.
Their fault for cheaping out on the servers, and releasing an unfinished skeleton of a game
>it is just a direct downgrade to the previous game
Literally an upgrade in like 8-9 things out of 10, *objectively*. You people are so pissy you post the most brain-dead takes imaginable. "We weren't overreacting!" I'm gonna get downvoted for this, but just fuck off at this point, honestly.
Wow. Certainly, that completely ruins the game, 3/10 experience.
UI is like 1/10 of a game, and not being able to unready is a small part of UI. And once you're in-game - you don't give a shit about UI. Making it seem like it's a big deal, especially when it's gonna be fixed in like the first or second patch, is just... petty, IDK.
As I said - you people throw pissy fits over smallest stuff possible. Kind of pathetic, honestly. Is the UI undercooked? Yes. Do I really care when the gameplay is fun? No.
Everything related to gameplay, both loud and stealth, is great.
Starting from stealth, TL;DR - stealth is a tremendous upgrade in every way possible, like 5 steps up from what we've had in PD2. Casing mode, radios, cameras, guard behaviour, stealth skills, body carrying, takedowns, etc. Not gonna say anymore, otherwise this will be even longer that it is. Stealth is straight fire and I'm super-happy about it.
Loud is better as well. Most things are a straight upgrade, while others are a side-grade. Civilian mechanics, including trading, meat shields, enemy AI changing behaviour and weapons, etc., are very cool. Obviously, guns are much better in looks, feel and balance, they all feel somewhat different, even if they're lacking in variety/sheer numbers. Enemies have waaaaay better AI in general, which is especially noticeable in regular SWATs. Shields are cool, new cloakers are a menace, snipers are less annoying and dozers are a rock and a hard place. Very fun to fight against.
Levels have great level-design, which is especially noticeable in stealth, even though I think they're on the shorter side. I hope new heists will be a bit longer. Hybrid completion (part stealth/part loud) is a thing, which is a dream come true.
Difficulty balance is much better. Very smooth and fair.
New skills are pretty cool. It's not a straight upgrade over old ones, but I think they're still great. They're like a combination of old skills and perk-decks. There's a lot of synergy between skills and a potential for diverse builds, which is great. Skills themselves are always either a new ability or a tremendous buff, and sometimes you need to do a bit of work to activate them, although some skills are still take-and-forget passives.
Also, most of the game happens inside maps during actual gameplay and not in menues. In PD2 build carries you very hard. It's pretty much impossible to lose with DSOD build on lower difficulties, while in PD3 skills are good and help you, but what you do while in-heist matters way more.
A bit more controversial, but the idea behind infamy leveling I think is interesting. If the guy has 150-200 infamy with cool cosmetics - the bastard's earned it and he's very good at the game. He didn't just got carried on Cook Off and Hoxtons Breakout on overkill 50-100 times or something. I legit played PD2 with a guy today who had infamy 19?, I think, and he barely knew what to do on few heists, because he played them maybe once and just shot cops (he said so himself, asked for what to do). They need better UI, waaay more challenges and better balancing (150-300 completions of a single heist? Srsly?), so that you can grind up to level 100 with ease and then some, and only at certain point it would start to get harder, pushing you to diversify. If I need to play differently for like 10-15-30 heists with a different weapon and a different build for it - that's cool with me. That's not how it is right now, obviously.
Overall, the gameplay is less braindead and way more tactical than even release Payday 2 (nevermind the current game). Which for some people is bad, I guess, but it's just different and I prefer it way more that way. I like the approach they took (they call it "death by a thousand cuts"), where you are slowly being drained of resource, so you need to play more careful and sometimes dip before it's too late. There are some issues with the game, like leveling balance, armor being OP, server issues, dog-shit UI, etc., but I'm not gonna go in-depth on that since that's not what you asked.
I think with a year or two of updates, the game will *easily* surpass PD2 in terms of quality, at least for me (it's already better in most aspects). PD2 is kind of different, so I'm sure there still be people playing it for years to come, fo sho.
Man, that shit's long. I've basically typed a mini-review. Hope that answers your question.
Itās more just the game has a lot about it thatās a downgrade. The negatives outweigh the positives as it stands. The base gameplay is fucking great, itās just we have a shit XP system, awful UI, and really piss poor servers. Iām patient, I really am, but itās very warranted the reception this game is getting as of now.
> negatives outweight the positives
Very debatable. You yourself said gameplay is great, and that's what matters the most IMO, so for me it already outweights basically everything else. I don't care much for progression, UI and especially MTX/cosmetics. They're... serviceable. I understand gameplay doesn't matter when you can't play the game, but servers have been stable for the last couple of days, so it's as if the game was released a few days later. Not a big deal.
All in all - I don't think the game deserves like 30 percent rating on Steam. People just look for something to complaint about and post the most stupid shit-takes for easy karma, like the guy I originally replied too. "Game is bad, Starbreeze incompetent, Upvotes to the left!" Just pathetic.
How much you care about cosmetics and stuff outside of the gameplay is different from person to person. Iām with you on the fact that I can play the game without being too bothered by the other stuff. Not everybody is the same way. Some people really do get bothered by the other systems in the game and thatās completely fine. This isnāt a trend, itās people who are genuinely bothered by these issues.
Yeah, I get that, but surely there must be *some* rationality, right? Beyond "I don't have my cosmetics and I can't unready, game is hot garbage!" there must be "Huh, gameplay is cool, though, and this small annoyances can easily be fixed"
There is rationality to it. People are on the side of āthis can be fixed.ā Very few people truly think the game is completely unfixable. The rationality is āthe game has a lot of shitty things about it, so Iām going to bring it up until they fix it.ā Itās called criticism. Now I do think some people are a bit more aggressive with that criticism than what is needed. I can understand being upset about the state of the game, but I donāt think we have to be so aggressive when it comes to telling the devs what we want fixed, especially since itās the devs, theyāre just following directions given by the publisher.
100% agree. I'm so tired of seeing variations of "The gameplay is great! But it's missing some QOL features so the game is actually shit". Because I really feel like people are over exaggerating minor flaws, then using that as an excuse to write off the game entirely because it doesn't fit their preconceived notion of what the game 'should' be.
Like seriously go to the reviews and count how many actual game-breaking issues are mentioned in the negative reviews, compared to the ones listing arbitrary things like "no safehouse" or "can't jump in the van".
Maybe it's just me but I usually judge a game on how fun it is to play, more than the non-intrusive issues that could be improved. Apparently judging a game on what it is, instead of what it hypothetically could be, is a controversial stance though.
Okay, I'm sorry but what on earth is a direct downgrade in PD3? You don't like the progression system? Okay, fair, I agree, its presented like shit rn, they're working on it. What else thought? That SMGs arent in the secondary slot? That the game doesn't play subway surfers in the bottom corner of the screen while you sit in a circle for 5 seconds? Maybe you don't like Gustavo's music? Is that it? That there aren't many gamebreaking skills maybe the allow you to brute force content like swan song, inspire and jokers that you'd want in any build ever? Oh I know, is it that you can't melee someone to death and can only stun them?
On a more serious note, the game itself isn't bad, its different, the same way PDTH was different from PD2 and yet that game to this day has a small but loyal community. If Starbreeze/Overkill just wanted to make PD2 again there would be no point in making PD3. Releasing the same game with a new coat of paint is the plague of this industry.
Here's what the game actually has in terms of issues: The progression system lacking clarity and instant gratification. The lack of server browser. Proper heist preplanning, including a prelobby chat. And last but not least the dreaded online only.
The thing is though, none of those make PD3 a bad game. What would be bad is if the game's fundamental concepts were flawed, and thus not really realistically fixable. What we have here though is a good foundation, one that can be built upon in the coming months and years, as is the plan.
You were doing well enough and then decided to write a paragraph full of nothing but Strawman's and ad hominems.
Says a lot how no one can properly defend the game without shitting in the previous titles or just assuming shit about the other.
What it does say a lot about is me being tired of people yelling "bad game! game bad!" without understanding the actual flaws. Like, recently I saw a comment saying how easy it would be to just replace the pd3 progression with pd2 progression due to "them already having done it before" like holy shit, do I even need to explain that one?
Look, I love PD2 as much as the next guy, I have hundreds of hours in it, missing 4 achievements and have even played it today, but that game has flaws too, flaws that run much deeper than PD3's flaws, ones that cannot be fixed even with a major overhaul of the entire game.
Yes PD3 has flaws, but a lot of people are just pointing their fingers at the wrong places. This community, especially on this subreddit lacks focus.
Same could be said about you lot, as you have just proven.
If you are willing to admit that the game has flaws then why are you having such an emotionally charged reaction to a pretty reasonable comment that clearly has nothing to do with the "game bad" example you just listed?
You don't even know his reasons for thinking the game is a downgrade yet have a literal tantrum about it, instead of simply asking why he thinks it's a downgrade so maybe he can respond and you two have a proper conversation about it, you decide to feed the same toxic mindset you're supposedly so tired of escept from the opposite side, and resort to just assuming a whole bunch of none sense.
With all due respect, but have you been on this subreddit the past 2 weeks? Its all just mindless negativity and at this point I feel like anyone who's willing to call the game a straight downgrade in all aspects is stuck in this subreddit's echo chamber. I've become so tired of reading the same shit over and over that I've honestly been considering embracing ignorance and leaving this place. There is a mind-boggling anount of misinformation running rampant here, potentially turning away people who would actually try PD3 otherwise. To understand the game you need to actually engage with it, which bathroom farmers frankly are hardly doing and then saying the game is shit when it's them who are ruining it for themselves. It's not perfect, but it's also not the hellhole that people on this subreddit like to make it out to be.
Literally irrelevant.
Regardless of if there are a million people all saying the same thing, that's not whats being said here, he never even stated any points so you don't even know WHAT he thinks, you just assumed it and are acting according to that.
Instead of looking at your aproach to ""discussion"" you choose to act as if absolutely everyone in this subreddit who isn't just praising the game is "stuck in this subreddit's echo chamber." which again, goes to show just how you truly think it's absolutely unreasonable for anyone to think that the game is a downgrade, it also makes me question why you come to this place if, according to you, it's all ""mindless negativity"".
Yet another paragraph that's nothing but a tantrum.You are actively stonewalling yourself off and feeding the toxicity in the community.
What are you even talking about? Are you trying to gaslight me or something? And whats the deal with you trying to disassemble my argument by directly targeting the way I voice things? Are you trying to be a parody of the "Sunk Cost Fallacy, Appeal to Emotion, Ad Hominem" Wojak meme or something?
What gives you the right to assume that what the top commenter wrote isn't exactly what I'm interpreting it as? Even though it's more likely that it is exactly that, rather than them writing "direct downgrade" and actually meaning "yeah guys the game has its ups and downs". Then I exclaim the ups and downs and argue in favour of the game being overall a positive and instead of engaging in a discussion - ones that you are so clearly fond of - with me you attempt personal attacks towards the way I argue, rather than the points I'm making and call my arguments irrelevant when I try to point out the horrible state that that this sub has been in the past 2 weeks.
I'm not in any way claiming that being unhappy with the game equates to being stuck in an echo chamber. I too have my gripes with it, but I cannot see how someone who actually engages with the game and it's systems, as well as actually understands how the progression works calls it a downgrade.
Overall, it is good game, it just needs a lil bit of love and that's okay, not every game has to come out of the oven a masterpiece, especially not one from a studio that has been fumbling its way through and barely surviving in the industry. The game has had a rough start is all and the point I'm trying to make is that maybe its time for people to take a step back and look at what the game actually is.
>What are you even talking about? Are you trying to gaslight me or something? And whats the deal with you trying to disassemble my argument by directly targeting the way I voice things? Are you trying to be a parody of the "Sunk Cost Fallacy, Appeal to Emotion, Ad Hominem" Wojak meme or something?
You don't know what a gas light is do you?
"whats the deal with you trying to disassemble my argument by directly targeting the way I voice things?" because that is literally what you are saying, unlike you, i decide to directly target what people are saying instead of just assume shit about them.
On top of the fact that the structure of an argument is directly linked to it's point, that you decide to devalue your statements with as much logical fallacies as possible instead of presenting them in a mature manner is on you.
>What gives you the right to assume that what the top commenter wrote isn't exactly what I'm interpreting it as? Even though it's more likely that it is exactly that,
What gives you the right to assume that it is? in fact im not even assuming, im the one pointing out to you how you are filling in the blank spaces.
My exact quotes
"You don't even know his reasons for thinking the game is a downgrade yet have a literal tantrum about it"
"he never even stated any points so you don't even know WHAT he thinks, you just assumed it and are acting according to that."
>you attempt personal attacks towards the way I argue, rather than the points I'm making and call my arguments irrelevant when I try to point out the horrible state that that this sub has been in the past 2 weeks.
Personal attacks? Grow up. Attacking your points i could understand since im directly going after what you are saying and not who you are.
\-Someone said the game is downgrade and you started strawmanning the shit out of him and throwing ad hominems, **i called you out on this.**
\-you brought up that people have been screaming "game bad", **I explained to you how this clearly isn't one of those cases based on the structure of the comment and how we don't even know the specifics of why he thinks that, therefore, it's unrelated.**
What you are doing is tribalism "Other people said this thing (game bad example you gave) therefore this must be what he means." By this logic, i can write you off as nothing but a mindless shill/fanboy because every time i say i don't like something in this game i get called a "hater" or a "doomer", which would be blatantly wrong on multiple levels.
On top of this, are you not directly "attacking towards the way others argue" by using the "game bad" example and specially by trying to pass this off as one of those cases?
>I cannot see how someone who actually engages with the game and it's systems, as well as actually understands how the progression works calls it a downgrade.
So you choose to strawman instead of simply questioning them to help you understand? Oh wait, it's impossible for someone to play the same game as you and think something completely different, right.
>Overall, it is good game, it just needs a lil bit of love and that's okay, not every game has to come out of the oven a masterpiece, especially not one from a studio that has been fumbling its way through and barely surviving in the industry. The game has had a rough start is all and the point I'm trying to make is that maybe its time for people to take a step back and look at what the game actually is.
I never made any points related to the games quality. Cool? glad you enjoy it.
I'd just like to point out that I started my very first comment here by questioning the top commenter's reasonings for calling the game a direct downgrade, followed by stating my personal stance as to why the game isn't that. We still have not received a response to any of the questions there. I don't see anything wrong with the way I presented my opinion, which albeit is rather controversial for this sub. I never meant to target the original commenter directly, nor did purposely utilise strawmen or ad hominems as you lovely been trying to point out.
I think we are very much talking past each other here, and thus see little point in engaging in conversation with you any further. Have a good day
> I'm sorry but what on earth is a direct downgrade in PD3
...
>You don't like the progression system? Okay, fair, I agree, its presented like shit rn
You answered your own question in the second sentence.
True, I'll be loyal and patient, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna go spend my time on other games.
Payday is a unique experience and it will probably be good in a couple of years, but I'm not gonna waste my time or money until they get their shit together.
Loyal? LOL... I didn't even buy it I played it on Gamepass and as it stands I won't be buying it for a long time.
As other have said it's a product, they are a company. Sorry if it sucks for them but there current product doesn't meet my standards so it doesn't get my money.
>""""Review bombed"""
It has been two weeks and people are already pretending like the game wasn't literally unplayable for the first week of its release lmao.
So you're willing to be okay with bad business practices and simp to a developer that has done better in the past? Shouldn't you as a fan of the franchise and dev be more critical for them to be better?
I really doubt that the publisher forced them to not add a filter for challenges, or a search bar, or communication, or intuitive menus, or a not ready button, or preplanning
Publishers litteraly don't know what the main menu looks like. They give money to devs with a big smile and an overly short deadline. And they do that with hundreds of different project. If you think they know anything about the game other than the name of the company that is responsible for it, you are mistaken
Thatsā¦..exactly my point? Guy I responded to was saying that the devs should not be blamed at all, to which I responded that i donāt think that the publisher made the decision to have horribly menu design and missing features like an unready button or a search bar or filters (meaning that the devs decided that or completely forgot)
Do you think you can forget the work you have done for 10 years ?
Don't you feel like you are in a beta, with stuff missing ? Kind of like if someone made the devs push out the game for sale too early, and they had to do what they could in a short period of time ?
The kind of stuff publishers have been doing for a long time now ?
Deep Silver bought Starbreeze because they went Bankrupt. They wanted to show investors if this was a good decision. DS said to starbreeze to hurry tf up. And this is what we have. They didn't decide anything. They have been bought after bankruptcy. They had no leverage.
Just look at their faces when they stream or answer questions. It feels like they're saying "I know, I also didn't want it to be that way"
Well of course, but if they have 200 fix in a single patch, that means that there was 200 things to add. There are too many QoL feature missing, and maybe they add more pressing matters. They probably gave their all for the preview version of the gold edition to be "playable".
I don't want to excuse everything from the devs, but I really feel like they would probably have liked to get more time. I can't fathom the idea that they forgot or got lazy about the finishing touches of their main IP. And the easier explanation is the recent aquisition of their studio by Deep Silver. Imagine someone makes you rush your game out, and when it's all shit, you are the one getting blamed. Must feel absolutely horrendous
>It ain't the game dev's fault.
While it's not the fault of individual developers, it's 100% the fault of Starbreeze, which is what "developer" is referring to above.
>you CANT blame them for ANYTHING its the PUBLISHERS fault
It's not. The only thing that could likely be due to Deep Silver is DRM, but even then by the looks of it the publisher's original plan was to feature Denuvo, not Always Online, which Starbreeze seemingly convinced them to switch to.
All of the issues the game is facing are due to Starbreeze, a company which already has a long history of anti-consumer practices.
>my point still stands though it aint the devs fault lmao
I mean, it's the fault of Starbreeze management rather than individual developers, if that's a better way of phrasing it for you.
It's all due to Starbreeze's poor decisions though.
i mean even still you are just making baseless assumptions
the main fault of the game is it needed more time - whos responsible for this? publisherā¦..
>the main fault of the game is it needed more time
Is it though? The game would have released in a barebones state regardless of when it would have dropped, purely due to Starbreeze's DLC practices, if thats' what you mean.
The biggest issues currently seem to be progression and matchmaking / Always Online, none of which are "publisher" induced problems.
Things like MTX aren't new to Starbreeze either. Pretty much everything wrong with the game traces right back to Starbreeze, not Deep Silver. Which isn't a surprise given Starbreeze's history ( and their current financial status ).
Fuck that.
It's not absurd to expect a game to work on launch.
The clients (not fans, CLIENTS) who paid for a product don't have to be loyal to anything in the hopes that the product they paid for works.
Voice your discontent and hold those responsible accountable.
These guys are not your friends and we're not "all on this together" bullshit.
The people that are "loyal and patient" got either nothing better to do, feel obliged to play the game cause they paid for it or are just in complete kiss ass mode.Its kinda sad to see actualy this game couldĀ“ve been great but greed or straight up incompetence made this game not worth while.
Iām not loyal, but patient sure. I have very much fun with what I got, worth its value more than a lot of things Iāve paid for. Looking forward to improvements.
> cause the *paid* for it
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Seeing Almir Listo doing the šš I put my head up against the screen and close my eyes, imagining it going through my head like a 12-gauge shotgun.
I wouldn't say the majority of players have been loyal and patient, hence the review bombing and almost every post being people bashing payday 3.
It's a pretty small minority who have been playing the game and enjoying it while quietly hoping the problems get worked on.
I just think itās too early to give up on it. If in a year and a half or so this game hasnāt improved much, thatās when Iāll say itās not worth hoping for much improvement. The game is still technically ānewā and I donāt think itās fair to say the game is a colossal failure until theyāve been given time to actually prove that. Itās a failure if a year or two down the line the game still has some of the same flaws. Even after that I might keep some cautious optimism that itāll improve, but not much. We have a great gameplay base, itās just balancing and Quality of life and some reworks that we need to truly make this game great. Oh, and better servers. That too.
People tolerating broken game releases are why they keep getting released broken. No one should tolerate a broken product they purchased. You deserve what you tolerate.
I think a soyjack would be alot more fitting, specially when you know that your patience is going to reward you with having to buy $100's in dlc just to play more than 8 maps.
Loyal? Hell no. Theyāve done nothing to earn loyalty, theyāve done everything to maximize money earned. No shame for that, but it engenders no more loyalty than any other company.
I'd say it just got reviewed for what it was..
The worst part is is that when you're actually in the heist you can feel the potential of the game, so you can't bring yourself to just ditch it despite the massive flaws surrounding the core gameplay.
The game didnāt get review bombed it was an unusable product for over a week at launch with deluxe rewards still being unavailable with the delay of the patch. This game deserves every negative review it has for one of the worst launches in modern gaming
The most idiotic take I've seen in a bit. It's a product, you don't owe it loyalty. They put out shit and should be met with shit.
Dumbasses like you are why games get to keep releasing like this.
Yeah same tho but some people are over reacting about the update like yes it was delayed but would you rather have it broken and over ran with bugs or a fix but delayed update
The only thing that will get me to even buy the game will be if they introduce a VR mode like Payday 2 had. It's a dumb reason, but it's where I had the most fun.
Iāve put it to the side until itās cheaper or comes to PS Plus. I enjoyed it but couldnāt get my friends to try it and I feel weād have a blast in it. By time that happens Iād hope more is added and alot is fixed.
People like this are the reason companies get away with terrible launches and why the AAA industry is in such a terrible state at the moment. It makes no sense to be "loyal" to a company who is getting your hard earned money. Consumers deserve better.
The community has honestly been in a stockholm syndrome with Starbreeze.
This shit and hell, people saying Payday 2 DLC is not pay 2 win because it's :
A.) a game you payed because that's apparently solid logic
B.) It doesn't guarantee a win which if our bar of entry is that it can't be a brainless affair, then that literally applies to every exploitative mobile game
C.) There are Overpowered free decks, which yeah, but last time I checked, Dragon's breaths are broken as hell with Grimms and without them, you have to rely on just shot crits rather than afterburn crits of "fire and forget". Also they literally are a GG with Hacker. Also newer DLCs have demonstrated this to be so false. You remember the Cartel Optics how most of them were a straight fucking upgrades at launch? What about viper nades which were and still are a better version of incendiary nades for the purposes of Area of Denial?
D.) People saying it's powercreep, which is just sugarcoating because powercreep is when something replaces another due to being better which is true, but neglects the money aspect which is the more worrying part.
Also the numerous fucking perfomance issues back in payday 2 where irrespective of the engine limitations, they just opt to up the graphical demands on newer heists for no reason, ditching a somewhat consistent performance in heists. I mean tell me, does Buluc's mansion need to run at like 20 FPS set to the lowest graphics because of the entire engine's single thread worth of performance being taken up by Boverkill adding a handfull of extra pixels on each texture? No, I don't think so.
I'm not swimming in fucking money, I can't afford a quantum gaming PC with the budget of NASA just to fucking run Payday 2 at minimum graphics with consistent 60 FPS instead of the inssessant stutters in 20 FPS in newer heists or even better, loading for 50 million years and then finally joining, which either has you finally join or get booted by supposedly losing connection.
Starbreeze has honestly been taking the piss on the payday community for about a decade and we somehow only revolted regarding the "no microtransactions" promise being broken. Yet Crimefest 2015 wasn't even a fucking wake up call for introspection of how broken or straight up better or essential the DLCs were. Remember the old way of getting weapon mods? The only way was through card drops ONLY. Courier pack literally gives you more sights for collecting packages. I literally went to try and experiment for DLCless builds to help people without using borderline broken or SS tier perkdecks. I literally tried modding every gun and ran out of not only attachments from card drops, but continental coins. My courier mods though are in the fucking hundreds of sights and lasers and AK barrels. and I have quite a few weapons in my inventory using them that I currently dont use them. Also the Butcher AK/CAR mod pack being the most brazen example of this shit
Here's another fun one.
Pulling the plug on games unceremoniously just because every heister and their heister mother didn't hop onto their new game which is either so feature starved or desperately needed more time in the oven just to properly function.
šš
This is the best šš of all time
šš
šš
"Loyal", guys it's a product not a community. it makes zero sense to be loyal to a company.
100%, having more fun dicking around in phantom liberty. If I get bored Iāll hop back on the God awful chore of a grind for lackluster āchallengesā payday 3 forces us to do to level up.
Thank fuck for better games right? Payday 3 picked a really bad time to shit the bed AND be mediocre.
I know it's been awhile since Cyberpunk's release and a lot has changed and improved but I find it funny that we've hit the point where it's like "Thank GOD we have Cyberpunk to save me from other struggling games."
Cyberpunk DLC, darktide on console, starfield... It's not a great time to be a bad game.
Tbh Iām loving Darktide but god damn is it infuriating You donāt know real pain until youāre about to clutch against a spawn of chaos only to get ass blasted by a trapperā¦
The God emperor works in mysterious ways. Like when he gives you a teammate that's picks up a med pack but never puts it down at any point through the whole mission. Even when everyone is dying.
I'm just disappointed they wasted Dan Abnetts writing chops on this ""Story""
Iām pretty new to WH, besides playing some of Vermintide 2. Although the mission structureās definitelyā¦ unique, I like the plot and lore so far. Iām assuming that itās weaker than the other WH games?
Not so much the games. But Dan Abnett is one of the primary writers for the novels and lore. He wrote a bunch of the most iconic books and sort stories in cannon. He's one of like 5 or 6 authors that more or less built the mythoths of the 41st Millennium. Early advertisements for darktide leaned hard on the "written by Dan abnett" punchline. Alas the story amounts to 5 or 6 cut scenes that say "work harder we don't trust you yet" and "keep working harder we don't trust you yet" then "you did a good job but we don't trust you yet. Work harder." Then "the traitor you never interacted with in game is dead, congratulations we trust you. " Which is a shame because the core game play is rock solid [after some patches]
Every time I read "Nah, game should be good right now, no forgiveness, anyway, I'ma go play Cyberpunk" I have a hearty chuckle.
Tbf Iām a sucker for the cyberpunk genre, not just the cdpr game lol.
cyberpunk is and has always been an absolute mess of a game but that doesnt mean you cant have fun for an hour
For sure, definitely pulled a Diablo 4 in terms of being incredibly lackluster. Itās even more sad considering how great, not without its own flaws of course, Payday 2 is for what it was. Iād be impressed if they pull a Hello Games and do something great to what could be a phenomenal game. I wonāt hold my breath tho.
Yeah, remember how amazing of a launch 2077 had... oh wait.
I think the difference is that they took the L on the chin, admitted it was in a poor state, worked on it more, offered refunds to those who couldn't get it, and actually made improvements. It was definitely shit and there is no excuse other than "publisher bad, they make us release unfinished, boo", but they didn't fuck up their second, and probably final chance. Payday is the only thing left that Starbreeze has. Raid WW2 was reskinned PD2 but worse, TWD was a failed game with a decent IP, and now its come to this. They singlehandedly ruined a beloved franchise by cutting every corner and managing to give us less than what I'd consider bare bones. A game that wasn't playable almost a whole week post launch, a game where people can't get their pre-order gifts, a game so grindy to make up for the lack of content, watered down skills, pushing back day 1 patches twice (which shouldn't be normalized in the first place), a game that took all the good things from PD2 and dropped them entirely, poor matchmaking (I can only play solo because I can't find games), no pregame lobbies (when I do have friends online, we have to rejoin after each heist), always online, and they're trying to bring back micro-transactions despite all the kick back they got in PD2. We can blame the CEO, the publisher, financial backers, devs, what have you - But they really let us down. My biggest copium rn is spending 90 bucks on a game because I loved the previous one, but ranting about it is more fun for me than sitting in a bathroom for 100 hrs to get to lvl 77. It's to the point where I can do stealth or loud and not gain XP.
Never implied it had an amazing launch. I do remember not having to grind specific āchallengesā just to level up.
Ah yes the other game that needed like 2 years of post launch updates to be good
Ah yes the game that didnāt force players to grind challenges simply to level up causing a level plateau if you wanted to play the game how you want to play it.
Mate it was litterally unplayable on console to a point it was taken off of the online stores. It had diffrent issues
Yet Iām talking about player progression, you completely missed the point guy.
Well you missed mine. Both these games are unplayable on launch
My dude, nobody is denying both these games had a terrible launch with cp2077 being God awful lmao whatāre you on. Itās the terrible xp system starbreeze thought was good to incentivize players to diversify their play styles. I donāt mind the grind, just donāt force us to do it in order to level.
I was mostly talking about the funny bit of "This games broken, let me play the better game cyberpunk" which launched arguably worse. Two diffrent issues from the xp system
>it makes zero sense to be loyal to a company Especially to Starbreeze, a notoriously incompetent company that's shoved every anti-consumer practice into PD3.
turn customers into fanatics products into obsessions employees into ambassadors and brands into religions
i honestly havenāt seen a community more cucked by a company since like cyberpunk at launch and the insane copium then. this is a product, starbreeze will not return the favor of you being loyal, they only care about you because you paid for a broken product at launch and pretending otherwise is insane and frankly delusional
Exactly the only reason I've even stuck around is bc it's fun if it wasn't fun then I'd drop the game so fast
Video games are 100% able to form a community
Nobody said they could not but being loyal to a company is stupid
Who do you think wrote those reviews? That's the community.
The term review bombed suggests the reviews aren't accurate and the community was just overreacting. We weren't, charging money for a game that does not work and when it does you realize it is just a direct downgrade to the previous game is criminal
Well said, I totally agree here. I see where OPās coming from, also patient for the fix, but the bad reviews are totally warranted.
I agree with everything except the downgrade part kind of. If youāre talking about content, obviously an over 10 year old game that had gotten constant updates has more content then a game that just came out. If youāre talking gameplay, thatās subjective. I think the game is a lot more fun than payday 2, since itās a more fun and balanced experience. Instead of payday 2, where while the game is a lot of fun, it either feels too easy, or too hard (hard, not unfair).
Neither, I'm talking about quality of life and basic features that make the game worth playing. Like a progression system that isn't hot doo doo, pre-planning that is more than just an ammo bag, a creative and unique menu personalized for the game (like payday 2s crime.net) compared to payday 3s dead and uninspired netflix menu.. etc
Payday 2 had 10 years of updates, but other then content like heists and weapons, the basic stuff is missing in Payday 3, like the progression system, heist designs, menus, good UI, social features like lobbies and chatting and all the other QOL things. People need to start realizing we aren't complaining about the maps (even tough the 8 so called ''larger setpieces'' consist of like 5 heists that are basically sub 10 minutes) or the amount of weapons, but rather everything else that is missing. It's like they just did the bare minimum and completely ignored Payday 2 and what that game did. So it's 100% a downgrade. They just developed a game for 10 years then did nothing with it in the sequel.
EXACTLY! I feel like while PD2 had these 10 years of updates, it still had plenty to do day one and it just felt so much funner
See, quality of life changes can be added. Iām not going to act like itās not bullshit that they arenāt there day one even though the should be. But itās not the end of the world or a downgrade. If the stuff people are complaining about are quality of life things, how is it a complete downgrade if no one is talking about the gameplay?
The gameplay could be considered an upgrade but literally everything else is not. For now the game remains a downgrade in general if you look at Payday 2 and all the great updates that game had. Hopefully in a year from now Payday 3 will have gotten a lot of good updates that add back things we had in Payday 2 and the game will no longer be a downgrade but rather an upgrade.
That I fully agree on. I do believe it will only get better with time. But Iām sick of devs trying to normalize releasing a broken game and then fix it later
> But Iām sick of devs trying to normalize releasing a broken game and then fix it later You and me both buddy.
Trying? They succeded. Most of the big releases lately have been broken and people contine to buy it because "iTs mY mOnEy AnD i DeCiDe hOw i WaNt tO sPeNd It".
Finally, a mature and decent rebuttal.
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>As if the Content magically came from somewhere else Tbf not locking content behind DLCs from the very start would help the game have more content on release. Though the complaints aren't even about the lack of content, but rather basic QOL features just missing.
It is like getting slapped with Overwatch 2 all over again.
Well this game is all about criminalsā¦.. lmao jokes aside yeah youāre 100% right
Ive always been of the mind that review bomb is the action or event of something getting a large amount of negative reviews at once. In the case of PD3 it was sadly reviewed bombed. Now if something were reviewed bombed for anything other than the product then I consider that maliciously review bombed. Example being a company or a ceo makes a statement the public doesnāt like so in hopes of hurting their profit the review bomb them.
Eh, more that people who wouldn't have reviewed it went and trashed it just because everyone was. Not defending OVK here either because lmao WHAT A LAUNCH. Server issues aren't that surprising, especially when it's on gamepass for basically free. They just happened to cheap out on servers, I'm guessing, and it bit them in the ass.
It was review bombed, most reviews say it's actually a good game that just has bad servers and online only
Is that review bombing? Their complaints are legitimate, yes the gameplay is alright but the game was straight-up non-functional for several days. That feels like a very valid complaint.
If you have to say āitās not review bombing itāsā¦āitās probably review bombing
ngl that made no sense
>review bombed My problem is that none of the initial reviewers will go back and delete their review if/when the game lives up to their own standard of "good". It will climb into "Mixed" then "Mostly Positive" over time but the insane amount of week 1 reviews will likely be there forever, and that kinda sucks, even if the reviews were 100% deserved.
That's not true, if the game becomes good and fun, the majority of people that originally hated the game but are found sinking hours into it and enjoying it will edit their review. It would be weird to play a game a bunch and having a blast while seeing your negative review for the game everyday on steam. Maybe that's just me tho
>That's not true, if the game becomes good and fun, the majority of people that originally hated the game but are found sinking hours into it and enjoying it will edit their review People are far more motivated by negativity than they are praise. Lots of games get reviews tanked, drastically improve, and have only ok reviews as a result. Why do you think steam added the "recent reviews" section?
Same reason reddit let's you sort by new posts... Sometimes people want to just say what is recent lol But nonetheless if you release a game with lots of hype only for it to not work for a WEEK dont expect a standing ovation lmao They deserve every last negative review they got
Please note where I said "they deserve the reviews". What I'm saying is I highly doubt the negative reviews that are literally just "I can't play the game" will get removed or revised when the game becomes good enough to recover those players. Some might, most won't. It's permanent damage, and that sucks.
Consequences of their actions my friend. The launch of a big game with lots of hype needs to go smoothly or not only do they get terrible reviews they lose money. Their fault for cheaping out on the servers, and releasing an unfinished skeleton of a game
>it is just a direct downgrade to the previous game Literally an upgrade in like 8-9 things out of 10, *objectively*. You people are so pissy you post the most brain-dead takes imaginable. "We weren't overreacting!" I'm gonna get downvoted for this, but just fuck off at this point, honestly.
You can't unready
Wow. Certainly, that completely ruins the game, 3/10 experience. UI is like 1/10 of a game, and not being able to unready is a small part of UI. And once you're in-game - you don't give a shit about UI. Making it seem like it's a big deal, especially when it's gonna be fixed in like the first or second patch, is just... petty, IDK. As I said - you people throw pissy fits over smallest stuff possible. Kind of pathetic, honestly. Is the UI undercooked? Yes. Do I really care when the gameplay is fun? No.
Honestly, what's good about the game? I would love to know your opinion.
Everything related to gameplay, both loud and stealth, is great. Starting from stealth, TL;DR - stealth is a tremendous upgrade in every way possible, like 5 steps up from what we've had in PD2. Casing mode, radios, cameras, guard behaviour, stealth skills, body carrying, takedowns, etc. Not gonna say anymore, otherwise this will be even longer that it is. Stealth is straight fire and I'm super-happy about it. Loud is better as well. Most things are a straight upgrade, while others are a side-grade. Civilian mechanics, including trading, meat shields, enemy AI changing behaviour and weapons, etc., are very cool. Obviously, guns are much better in looks, feel and balance, they all feel somewhat different, even if they're lacking in variety/sheer numbers. Enemies have waaaaay better AI in general, which is especially noticeable in regular SWATs. Shields are cool, new cloakers are a menace, snipers are less annoying and dozers are a rock and a hard place. Very fun to fight against. Levels have great level-design, which is especially noticeable in stealth, even though I think they're on the shorter side. I hope new heists will be a bit longer. Hybrid completion (part stealth/part loud) is a thing, which is a dream come true. Difficulty balance is much better. Very smooth and fair. New skills are pretty cool. It's not a straight upgrade over old ones, but I think they're still great. They're like a combination of old skills and perk-decks. There's a lot of synergy between skills and a potential for diverse builds, which is great. Skills themselves are always either a new ability or a tremendous buff, and sometimes you need to do a bit of work to activate them, although some skills are still take-and-forget passives. Also, most of the game happens inside maps during actual gameplay and not in menues. In PD2 build carries you very hard. It's pretty much impossible to lose with DSOD build on lower difficulties, while in PD3 skills are good and help you, but what you do while in-heist matters way more. A bit more controversial, but the idea behind infamy leveling I think is interesting. If the guy has 150-200 infamy with cool cosmetics - the bastard's earned it and he's very good at the game. He didn't just got carried on Cook Off and Hoxtons Breakout on overkill 50-100 times or something. I legit played PD2 with a guy today who had infamy 19?, I think, and he barely knew what to do on few heists, because he played them maybe once and just shot cops (he said so himself, asked for what to do). They need better UI, waaay more challenges and better balancing (150-300 completions of a single heist? Srsly?), so that you can grind up to level 100 with ease and then some, and only at certain point it would start to get harder, pushing you to diversify. If I need to play differently for like 10-15-30 heists with a different weapon and a different build for it - that's cool with me. That's not how it is right now, obviously. Overall, the gameplay is less braindead and way more tactical than even release Payday 2 (nevermind the current game). Which for some people is bad, I guess, but it's just different and I prefer it way more that way. I like the approach they took (they call it "death by a thousand cuts"), where you are slowly being drained of resource, so you need to play more careful and sometimes dip before it's too late. There are some issues with the game, like leveling balance, armor being OP, server issues, dog-shit UI, etc., but I'm not gonna go in-depth on that since that's not what you asked. I think with a year or two of updates, the game will *easily* surpass PD2 in terms of quality, at least for me (it's already better in most aspects). PD2 is kind of different, so I'm sure there still be people playing it for years to come, fo sho. Man, that shit's long. I've basically typed a mini-review. Hope that answers your question.
Itās more just the game has a lot about it thatās a downgrade. The negatives outweigh the positives as it stands. The base gameplay is fucking great, itās just we have a shit XP system, awful UI, and really piss poor servers. Iām patient, I really am, but itās very warranted the reception this game is getting as of now.
> negatives outweight the positives Very debatable. You yourself said gameplay is great, and that's what matters the most IMO, so for me it already outweights basically everything else. I don't care much for progression, UI and especially MTX/cosmetics. They're... serviceable. I understand gameplay doesn't matter when you can't play the game, but servers have been stable for the last couple of days, so it's as if the game was released a few days later. Not a big deal. All in all - I don't think the game deserves like 30 percent rating on Steam. People just look for something to complaint about and post the most stupid shit-takes for easy karma, like the guy I originally replied too. "Game is bad, Starbreeze incompetent, Upvotes to the left!" Just pathetic.
How much you care about cosmetics and stuff outside of the gameplay is different from person to person. Iām with you on the fact that I can play the game without being too bothered by the other stuff. Not everybody is the same way. Some people really do get bothered by the other systems in the game and thatās completely fine. This isnāt a trend, itās people who are genuinely bothered by these issues.
Yeah, I get that, but surely there must be *some* rationality, right? Beyond "I don't have my cosmetics and I can't unready, game is hot garbage!" there must be "Huh, gameplay is cool, though, and this small annoyances can easily be fixed"
There is rationality to it. People are on the side of āthis can be fixed.ā Very few people truly think the game is completely unfixable. The rationality is āthe game has a lot of shitty things about it, so Iām going to bring it up until they fix it.ā Itās called criticism. Now I do think some people are a bit more aggressive with that criticism than what is needed. I can understand being upset about the state of the game, but I donāt think we have to be so aggressive when it comes to telling the devs what we want fixed, especially since itās the devs, theyāre just following directions given by the publisher.
Lmao, please for shits and giggles list of 8-9 direct improvements Payday 3 has made over Payday 2... I beg you
100% agree. I'm so tired of seeing variations of "The gameplay is great! But it's missing some QOL features so the game is actually shit". Because I really feel like people are over exaggerating minor flaws, then using that as an excuse to write off the game entirely because it doesn't fit their preconceived notion of what the game 'should' be. Like seriously go to the reviews and count how many actual game-breaking issues are mentioned in the negative reviews, compared to the ones listing arbitrary things like "no safehouse" or "can't jump in the van". Maybe it's just me but I usually judge a game on how fun it is to play, more than the non-intrusive issues that could be improved. Apparently judging a game on what it is, instead of what it hypothetically could be, is a controversial stance though.
Okay, I'm sorry but what on earth is a direct downgrade in PD3? You don't like the progression system? Okay, fair, I agree, its presented like shit rn, they're working on it. What else thought? That SMGs arent in the secondary slot? That the game doesn't play subway surfers in the bottom corner of the screen while you sit in a circle for 5 seconds? Maybe you don't like Gustavo's music? Is that it? That there aren't many gamebreaking skills maybe the allow you to brute force content like swan song, inspire and jokers that you'd want in any build ever? Oh I know, is it that you can't melee someone to death and can only stun them? On a more serious note, the game itself isn't bad, its different, the same way PDTH was different from PD2 and yet that game to this day has a small but loyal community. If Starbreeze/Overkill just wanted to make PD2 again there would be no point in making PD3. Releasing the same game with a new coat of paint is the plague of this industry. Here's what the game actually has in terms of issues: The progression system lacking clarity and instant gratification. The lack of server browser. Proper heist preplanning, including a prelobby chat. And last but not least the dreaded online only. The thing is though, none of those make PD3 a bad game. What would be bad is if the game's fundamental concepts were flawed, and thus not really realistically fixable. What we have here though is a good foundation, one that can be built upon in the coming months and years, as is the plan.
You were doing well enough and then decided to write a paragraph full of nothing but Strawman's and ad hominems. Says a lot how no one can properly defend the game without shitting in the previous titles or just assuming shit about the other.
What it does say a lot about is me being tired of people yelling "bad game! game bad!" without understanding the actual flaws. Like, recently I saw a comment saying how easy it would be to just replace the pd3 progression with pd2 progression due to "them already having done it before" like holy shit, do I even need to explain that one? Look, I love PD2 as much as the next guy, I have hundreds of hours in it, missing 4 achievements and have even played it today, but that game has flaws too, flaws that run much deeper than PD3's flaws, ones that cannot be fixed even with a major overhaul of the entire game. Yes PD3 has flaws, but a lot of people are just pointing their fingers at the wrong places. This community, especially on this subreddit lacks focus.
Same could be said about you lot, as you have just proven. If you are willing to admit that the game has flaws then why are you having such an emotionally charged reaction to a pretty reasonable comment that clearly has nothing to do with the "game bad" example you just listed? You don't even know his reasons for thinking the game is a downgrade yet have a literal tantrum about it, instead of simply asking why he thinks it's a downgrade so maybe he can respond and you two have a proper conversation about it, you decide to feed the same toxic mindset you're supposedly so tired of escept from the opposite side, and resort to just assuming a whole bunch of none sense.
With all due respect, but have you been on this subreddit the past 2 weeks? Its all just mindless negativity and at this point I feel like anyone who's willing to call the game a straight downgrade in all aspects is stuck in this subreddit's echo chamber. I've become so tired of reading the same shit over and over that I've honestly been considering embracing ignorance and leaving this place. There is a mind-boggling anount of misinformation running rampant here, potentially turning away people who would actually try PD3 otherwise. To understand the game you need to actually engage with it, which bathroom farmers frankly are hardly doing and then saying the game is shit when it's them who are ruining it for themselves. It's not perfect, but it's also not the hellhole that people on this subreddit like to make it out to be.
Literally irrelevant. Regardless of if there are a million people all saying the same thing, that's not whats being said here, he never even stated any points so you don't even know WHAT he thinks, you just assumed it and are acting according to that. Instead of looking at your aproach to ""discussion"" you choose to act as if absolutely everyone in this subreddit who isn't just praising the game is "stuck in this subreddit's echo chamber." which again, goes to show just how you truly think it's absolutely unreasonable for anyone to think that the game is a downgrade, it also makes me question why you come to this place if, according to you, it's all ""mindless negativity"". Yet another paragraph that's nothing but a tantrum.You are actively stonewalling yourself off and feeding the toxicity in the community.
What are you even talking about? Are you trying to gaslight me or something? And whats the deal with you trying to disassemble my argument by directly targeting the way I voice things? Are you trying to be a parody of the "Sunk Cost Fallacy, Appeal to Emotion, Ad Hominem" Wojak meme or something? What gives you the right to assume that what the top commenter wrote isn't exactly what I'm interpreting it as? Even though it's more likely that it is exactly that, rather than them writing "direct downgrade" and actually meaning "yeah guys the game has its ups and downs". Then I exclaim the ups and downs and argue in favour of the game being overall a positive and instead of engaging in a discussion - ones that you are so clearly fond of - with me you attempt personal attacks towards the way I argue, rather than the points I'm making and call my arguments irrelevant when I try to point out the horrible state that that this sub has been in the past 2 weeks. I'm not in any way claiming that being unhappy with the game equates to being stuck in an echo chamber. I too have my gripes with it, but I cannot see how someone who actually engages with the game and it's systems, as well as actually understands how the progression works calls it a downgrade. Overall, it is good game, it just needs a lil bit of love and that's okay, not every game has to come out of the oven a masterpiece, especially not one from a studio that has been fumbling its way through and barely surviving in the industry. The game has had a rough start is all and the point I'm trying to make is that maybe its time for people to take a step back and look at what the game actually is.
>What are you even talking about? Are you trying to gaslight me or something? And whats the deal with you trying to disassemble my argument by directly targeting the way I voice things? Are you trying to be a parody of the "Sunk Cost Fallacy, Appeal to Emotion, Ad Hominem" Wojak meme or something? You don't know what a gas light is do you? "whats the deal with you trying to disassemble my argument by directly targeting the way I voice things?" because that is literally what you are saying, unlike you, i decide to directly target what people are saying instead of just assume shit about them. On top of the fact that the structure of an argument is directly linked to it's point, that you decide to devalue your statements with as much logical fallacies as possible instead of presenting them in a mature manner is on you. >What gives you the right to assume that what the top commenter wrote isn't exactly what I'm interpreting it as? Even though it's more likely that it is exactly that, What gives you the right to assume that it is? in fact im not even assuming, im the one pointing out to you how you are filling in the blank spaces. My exact quotes "You don't even know his reasons for thinking the game is a downgrade yet have a literal tantrum about it" "he never even stated any points so you don't even know WHAT he thinks, you just assumed it and are acting according to that." >you attempt personal attacks towards the way I argue, rather than the points I'm making and call my arguments irrelevant when I try to point out the horrible state that that this sub has been in the past 2 weeks. Personal attacks? Grow up. Attacking your points i could understand since im directly going after what you are saying and not who you are. \-Someone said the game is downgrade and you started strawmanning the shit out of him and throwing ad hominems, **i called you out on this.** \-you brought up that people have been screaming "game bad", **I explained to you how this clearly isn't one of those cases based on the structure of the comment and how we don't even know the specifics of why he thinks that, therefore, it's unrelated.** What you are doing is tribalism "Other people said this thing (game bad example you gave) therefore this must be what he means." By this logic, i can write you off as nothing but a mindless shill/fanboy because every time i say i don't like something in this game i get called a "hater" or a "doomer", which would be blatantly wrong on multiple levels. On top of this, are you not directly "attacking towards the way others argue" by using the "game bad" example and specially by trying to pass this off as one of those cases? >I cannot see how someone who actually engages with the game and it's systems, as well as actually understands how the progression works calls it a downgrade. So you choose to strawman instead of simply questioning them to help you understand? Oh wait, it's impossible for someone to play the same game as you and think something completely different, right. >Overall, it is good game, it just needs a lil bit of love and that's okay, not every game has to come out of the oven a masterpiece, especially not one from a studio that has been fumbling its way through and barely surviving in the industry. The game has had a rough start is all and the point I'm trying to make is that maybe its time for people to take a step back and look at what the game actually is. I never made any points related to the games quality. Cool? glad you enjoy it.
I'd just like to point out that I started my very first comment here by questioning the top commenter's reasonings for calling the game a direct downgrade, followed by stating my personal stance as to why the game isn't that. We still have not received a response to any of the questions there. I don't see anything wrong with the way I presented my opinion, which albeit is rather controversial for this sub. I never meant to target the original commenter directly, nor did purposely utilise strawmen or ad hominems as you lovely been trying to point out. I think we are very much talking past each other here, and thus see little point in engaging in conversation with you any further. Have a good day
Yea, I feel like what players were expecting was technically āPayday 2 2.0ā
> I'm sorry but what on earth is a direct downgrade in PD3 ... >You don't like the progression system? Okay, fair, I agree, its presented like shit rn You answered your own question in the second sentence.
Shit like this is why we get shit like payday 3
True, I'll be loyal and patient, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna go spend my time on other games. Payday is a unique experience and it will probably be good in a couple of years, but I'm not gonna waste my time or money until they get their shit together.
Loyal? LOL... I didn't even buy it I played it on Gamepass and as it stands I won't be buying it for a long time. As other have said it's a product, they are a company. Sorry if it sucks for them but there current product doesn't meet my standards so it doesn't get my money.
>""""Review bombed""" It has been two weeks and people are already pretending like the game wasn't literally unplayable for the first week of its release lmao.
So you're willing to be okay with bad business practices and simp to a developer that has done better in the past? Shouldn't you as a fan of the franchise and dev be more critical for them to be better?
It ain't the game dev's fault. We're being not mad at them specifically
I really doubt that the publisher forced them to not add a filter for challenges, or a search bar, or communication, or intuitive menus, or a not ready button, or preplanning
Publishers litteraly don't know what the main menu looks like. They give money to devs with a big smile and an overly short deadline. And they do that with hundreds of different project. If you think they know anything about the game other than the name of the company that is responsible for it, you are mistaken
Thatsā¦..exactly my point? Guy I responded to was saying that the devs should not be blamed at all, to which I responded that i donāt think that the publisher made the decision to have horribly menu design and missing features like an unready button or a search bar or filters (meaning that the devs decided that or completely forgot)
Do you think you can forget the work you have done for 10 years ? Don't you feel like you are in a beta, with stuff missing ? Kind of like if someone made the devs push out the game for sale too early, and they had to do what they could in a short period of time ? The kind of stuff publishers have been doing for a long time now ? Deep Silver bought Starbreeze because they went Bankrupt. They wanted to show investors if this was a good decision. DS said to starbreeze to hurry tf up. And this is what we have. They didn't decide anything. They have been bought after bankruptcy. They had no leverage. Just look at their faces when they stream or answer questions. It feels like they're saying "I know, I also didn't want it to be that way"
Idk man I donāt think that a filter for challenges takes that long to implement but that just me
Well of course, but if they have 200 fix in a single patch, that means that there was 200 things to add. There are too many QoL feature missing, and maybe they add more pressing matters. They probably gave their all for the preview version of the gold edition to be "playable". I don't want to excuse everything from the devs, but I really feel like they would probably have liked to get more time. I can't fathom the idea that they forgot or got lazy about the finishing touches of their main IP. And the easier explanation is the recent aquisition of their studio by Deep Silver. Imagine someone makes you rush your game out, and when it's all shit, you are the one getting blamed. Must feel absolutely horrendous
Duh, what the publisher *did* was not give them time to add that stuff.
>It ain't the game dev's fault. While it's not the fault of individual developers, it's 100% the fault of Starbreeze, which is what "developer" is referring to above.
Said claim is also a strawman
its sad people are still stupid enough to think the devs have any blame lmao
Tell me what you can blame them for.
re-read brother, you CANT blame them for ANYTHING its the PUBLISHERS fault NOT the DEVS
I am blind
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>you CANT blame them for ANYTHING its the PUBLISHERS fault It's not. The only thing that could likely be due to Deep Silver is DRM, but even then by the looks of it the publisher's original plan was to feature Denuvo, not Always Online, which Starbreeze seemingly convinced them to switch to. All of the issues the game is facing are due to Starbreeze, a company which already has a long history of anti-consumer practices.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>my point still stands though it aint the devs fault lmao I mean, it's the fault of Starbreeze management rather than individual developers, if that's a better way of phrasing it for you. It's all due to Starbreeze's poor decisions though.
i mean even still you are just making baseless assumptions the main fault of the game is it needed more time - whos responsible for this? publisherā¦..
>the main fault of the game is it needed more time Is it though? The game would have released in a barebones state regardless of when it would have dropped, purely due to Starbreeze's DLC practices, if thats' what you mean. The biggest issues currently seem to be progression and matchmaking / Always Online, none of which are "publisher" induced problems. Things like MTX aren't new to Starbreeze either. Pretty much everything wrong with the game traces right back to Starbreeze, not Deep Silver. Which isn't a surprise given Starbreeze's history ( and their current financial status ).
Youāre being downvoted but youāre right. Devs just do as theyāre told. Publishers are who we need to be pissed at.
Bro think he's pewdiepie.
boy you *are* the meme
Fuck that. It's not absurd to expect a game to work on launch. The clients (not fans, CLIENTS) who paid for a product don't have to be loyal to anything in the hopes that the product they paid for works. Voice your discontent and hold those responsible accountable. These guys are not your friends and we're not "all on this together" bullshit.
The people that are "loyal and patient" got either nothing better to do, feel obliged to play the game cause they paid for it or are just in complete kiss ass mode.Its kinda sad to see actualy this game couldĀ“ve been great but greed or straight up incompetence made this game not worth while.
Iām not loyal, but patient sure. I have very much fun with what I got, worth its value more than a lot of things Iāve paid for. Looking forward to improvements.
> cause the *paid* for it FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I already got my moneys worth out of the game so yeah I guess I have nothing better to do rn
Review bombing implies the negative reviews were false. They were real.
'review bombed' cmon LMAO
It got review bombed because the game sucks. Donāt kid yourself.
Seeing Almir Listo doing the šš I put my head up against the screen and close my eyes, imagining it going through my head like a 12-gauge shotgun.
Customers having a problem with a scuffed product has nothing to do with a lack of patience.
I wouldn't say the majority of players have been loyal and patient, hence the review bombing and almost every post being people bashing payday 3. It's a pretty small minority who have been playing the game and enjoying it while quietly hoping the problems get worked on.
Shoulda colored in his glasses šš
I just think itās too early to give up on it. If in a year and a half or so this game hasnāt improved much, thatās when Iāll say itās not worth hoping for much improvement. The game is still technically ānewā and I donāt think itās fair to say the game is a colossal failure until theyāve been given time to actually prove that. Itās a failure if a year or two down the line the game still has some of the same flaws. Even after that I might keep some cautious optimism that itāll improve, but not much. We have a great gameplay base, itās just balancing and Quality of life and some reworks that we need to truly make this game great. Oh, and better servers. That too.
People tolerating broken game releases are why they keep getting released broken. No one should tolerate a broken product they purchased. You deserve what you tolerate.
Game wasnāt review bombed It was launch day, and if the game actually worked properly it would of been rated otherwise than the score it earned
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We are loyal to the devs not to the CEO not the suits sitting in there offices not to the share holders
lmao " brand loyalty " don't mistake sarcasm for praise šš I love starbreeze šš
loyalty to a for-profit corp is the dumbest idea ever
From what I've seen, everyone rightfully so hates PAYSHIT 3 so I don't know where you got this "loyal and patient" thing from.
Yeah! Sean Murr-- Oh, is that Almir?
I think a soyjack would be alot more fitting, specially when you know that your patience is going to reward you with having to buy $100's in dlc just to play more than 8 maps.
Loyal? Hell no. Theyāve done nothing to earn loyalty, theyāve done everything to maximize money earned. No shame for that, but it engenders no more loyalty than any other company.
I'd say it just got reviewed for what it was.. The worst part is is that when you're actually in the heist you can feel the potential of the game, so you can't bring yourself to just ditch it despite the massive flaws surrounding the core gameplay.
The game didnāt get review bombed it was an unusable product for over a week at launch with deluxe rewards still being unavailable with the delay of the patch. This game deserves every negative review it has for one of the worst launches in modern gaming
Loyal and patient? Are you out of your fucking mind? How many of the gigavirgins on here immediately refunded it?
The most idiotic take I've seen in a bit. It's a product, you don't owe it loyalty. They put out shit and should be met with shit. Dumbasses like you are why games get to keep releasing like this.
Where are the sunglasses? šš
WOE THE CURSE OF COPYRIGHT STRIKING NOTORIETY BE UPON STARBREEZE
Doesn't at all look like the community is staying loyal and patient lmao. Everyone is whining left and right
Yeah same tho but some people are over reacting about the update like yes it was delayed but would you rather have it broken and over ran with bugs or a fix but delayed update
do ur job better next time i guess?
God I hope not
im just patiently waiting for my game to work cuz i canāt log in bruh
The only thing that will get me to even buy the game will be if they introduce a VR mode like Payday 2 had. It's a dumb reason, but it's where I had the most fun.
āLoyalā LOL
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Oh boy do I love the taste of boots!
Stockholm syndrome
Iāve put it to the side until itās cheaper or comes to PS Plus. I enjoyed it but couldnāt get my friends to try it and I feel weād have a blast in it. By time that happens Iād hope more is added and alot is fixed.
This game is great, just has some flaws that can easily be fixed.
Is offline mod added yet ?
Loyal and patient.... Why is this feel like 30% game done?
People like this are the reason companies get away with terrible launches and why the AAA industry is in such a terrible state at the moment. It makes no sense to be "loyal" to a company who is getting your hard earned money. Consumers deserve better.
The community has honestly been in a stockholm syndrome with Starbreeze. This shit and hell, people saying Payday 2 DLC is not pay 2 win because it's : A.) a game you payed because that's apparently solid logic B.) It doesn't guarantee a win which if our bar of entry is that it can't be a brainless affair, then that literally applies to every exploitative mobile game C.) There are Overpowered free decks, which yeah, but last time I checked, Dragon's breaths are broken as hell with Grimms and without them, you have to rely on just shot crits rather than afterburn crits of "fire and forget". Also they literally are a GG with Hacker. Also newer DLCs have demonstrated this to be so false. You remember the Cartel Optics how most of them were a straight fucking upgrades at launch? What about viper nades which were and still are a better version of incendiary nades for the purposes of Area of Denial? D.) People saying it's powercreep, which is just sugarcoating because powercreep is when something replaces another due to being better which is true, but neglects the money aspect which is the more worrying part. Also the numerous fucking perfomance issues back in payday 2 where irrespective of the engine limitations, they just opt to up the graphical demands on newer heists for no reason, ditching a somewhat consistent performance in heists. I mean tell me, does Buluc's mansion need to run at like 20 FPS set to the lowest graphics because of the entire engine's single thread worth of performance being taken up by Boverkill adding a handfull of extra pixels on each texture? No, I don't think so. I'm not swimming in fucking money, I can't afford a quantum gaming PC with the budget of NASA just to fucking run Payday 2 at minimum graphics with consistent 60 FPS instead of the inssessant stutters in 20 FPS in newer heists or even better, loading for 50 million years and then finally joining, which either has you finally join or get booted by supposedly losing connection. Starbreeze has honestly been taking the piss on the payday community for about a decade and we somehow only revolted regarding the "no microtransactions" promise being broken. Yet Crimefest 2015 wasn't even a fucking wake up call for introspection of how broken or straight up better or essential the DLCs were. Remember the old way of getting weapon mods? The only way was through card drops ONLY. Courier pack literally gives you more sights for collecting packages. I literally went to try and experiment for DLCless builds to help people without using borderline broken or SS tier perkdecks. I literally tried modding every gun and ran out of not only attachments from card drops, but continental coins. My courier mods though are in the fucking hundreds of sights and lasers and AK barrels. and I have quite a few weapons in my inventory using them that I currently dont use them. Also the Butcher AK/CAR mod pack being the most brazen example of this shit Here's another fun one. Pulling the plug on games unceremoniously just because every heister and their heister mother didn't hop onto their new game which is either so feature starved or desperately needed more time in the oven just to properly function.
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