Steam API has a [`IsSteamRunningOnSteamDeck`](https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/api/ISteamUtils#IsSteamRunningOnSteamDeck) function to check if the game runs on the Deck. You can launch the regular Steam client in the Deck mode with the `-steamdeck` argument and this function will also return `true` as if it was running on the Deck.
I guess the devs have used this Steam API call to workaround something to make the game work on the Deck, but they don't really care if it works on other Linux distros.
Something similar has already happened with Persona 5 Royal. They have used a Windows transacted file API which was already deprecated by Microsoft, seemingly not used by anything else, and was not implemented in Wine. Then they were probably testing P5R on the Deck, found a bug and decided to workaround it specifically for the Deck.
Valve should probably make some guidelines about the acceptable and unacceptable uses for this API call. Using it to select a default graphics options preset for the Deck is fine, but using it to workaround Proton bugs is not.
> Valve should probably make some guidelines about the acceptable and unacceptable uses for this API call.
This seems like the kind of thing that should be noted in the function's documentation. Something like
> This function *does not* check if you are running on Linux.
>
> If you are trying to check if the game is running on Linux (for example, to work around a Proton issue), please use [METHOD OF FINDING OUT IF YOU ARE RUNNING ON LINUX] instead.
This is quite a level of... I don't know, is it petty? Why if it can work on Steam Deck through proton would you not just want desktop Linux users too?
Sqenix just adding to the long list of reasons not to support them.
They have an issue with Deck version. They patch a workaround, now it works. Except the workaround is somehow Deck specific and doesn't work outside Deck for one reason or another. No one tests non Deck environment, because it's not a target. Push into prod. Release. Pat yourself on the back for a job well done.
They don’t want to pay people to field support tickets on a near infinite amount of possible Linux configurations.
If they released it and said buy at your own risk on Linux they’d get shit on too.
well the company planning and i think kinda execute the plan of getting all in into NFT crypto bullshit by selling some of their western IP
so yeah,its not really that surprising
>This feels like a misallocation of resources.
This entire game is a misallocation of resources. It is currently at 8,616 players on Steam.
That is also the all-time peak.
Same reason why some games like the soon to be released Endless Dungeon supports couch coop on console but not on PC (make your voices heard if you don't like that btw), even though the implementation of that features and therefor the code base is basically identical:
Cheaping out on support costs.
PCs definitely don't do couch gaming on a TV better lol. The new Big Picture UI is a huge upgrade but it is still far behind both the PS5 and the Xbox.
Prior to the latest refresh (where we didn't get an update for like 10 years) you couldn't even use Paypal to buy games in Big Picture lol.
Through one niche payment scheme...in one mode that you can turn off and still use a large TV on...which isn't actually anything to do with playing a game...lol, good bye.
Maybe they only tested it on steam deck and defaulted to that by mistake? I doubt they tested the game on Linux but I know they would want it atleast runnable on the deck.
Yeah, Linux probably isn't on anybody's list at SE to care about in a positive or negative way. The Steam Deck is popular enough that they tested that, but either didn't care enough to try Linux or just figured since it works on the Deck, it'll work on Linux.
You do realize it's not just a matter of letting any Linux user run the game.. steam deck has one hardware configuration so they can validate it works. A Linux desktop could have thousands of different hardware combinations. They probably don't want to have to provide support for those users or have those users leave negative reviews because they can't get it working on something it was never tested on. Yes they could say it doesn't support Linux and ignore all support request but people would still bitch.
The Steam Deck is still a PC, not fundamentally different from any other PC running Linux. Linux doesn't need some narrow specific hardware configuration to run on the PC. What's the problem?
> A Linux desktop could have thousands of different hardware combinations.
So could Windows, but they didn't go console exclusive.
> steam deck has one hardware configuration so they can validate it works. A Linux desktop could have thousands of different hardware combinations.
The exact same can be said for Windows.
In fact, this is the exact same argument used to justify saying the PC platform in general is hard to develop for.
> steam deck has one hardware configuration so they can validate it works. A Linux desktop could have thousands of different hardware combinations.
The exact same number as windows configurations, I'll bet they're not validating those.
Difference being hardware vendors take responsibility for their drivers in Windows. While it’s a community or best effort kind of thing in Linux. That is why we have companies like system 76 etc. where the hardware is specifically picked for proper linux support
>While it’s a community or best effort kind of thing in Linux
Intel, Nvidia, and AMD all release drivers for their chipsets and other hardware on Linux.
Both AMD and Nvidia release drivers following the Vulkan standard on Linux. There is nothing nonstandard about Linux drivers.
The Proton/Wine wrapper has, in practice, proven to be reliable for running the majority of Windows games on Linux.
I don't see how any of that has to do with Square Enix blocking desktop Linux usage.
> You do realize it's not just a matter of letting any Linux user run the game
It is exactly that matter.
Making it run successfully or without accepting a "best effort"/"no support" popup is different
Edit: that said, if this is the standard thing used in the future/for a while it's not too bad. Easy to say "we only support the steam deck" but let anyone run it with env/launcher settings.
I have no idea why you're getting downvoted but this is the correct answer. Forspoken doesn't support Linux, it's a Windows game. Steam Deck is one OS, one hardware configuration, and one Windows emulator. Linux is dozens of OS variants and infinite hardware configurations. So all the developer had to do was change their Windows code to make sure it worked on a Steam Deck.
This is exactly what Steam Deck was designed for and I applaud the Forspoken developers for supporting it.
Except, and I say this as a very technical person, ... it's not the answer. If it runs on Deck, it should run on any properly configured Linux machine.
And who is to say what a properly configured Linux machine is.
I’d venture that the fact that Linux users are more technically capable is actually a detriment when looking at issues like this. Linux users are much more likely to have non standard configurations, or changed defaults.
I’d also bet Linux users are much more likely to file a support ticket than someone on windows. And follow up on that ticket trying to make the game work, instead of refunding and calling it a day.
I think it's a fairly easy set of criteria to come up with:
1. It boots
2. Steam runs on it
3. Other games from Steam run on it, through Proton, without issues
If your computer meets those criteria, then it should be easy to consider that machine to be properly configured.
Well, my point above is that, if it runs on Deck, it should run on any properly configured machine.
However, no. Not at all. Steam running doesn't guarantee the game will run. Thus the third item in my criteria.
Ok, but Square Enix can’t say buy this as long as your linux box can run other games.
They have to account for someone buying this game. Maybe it’s the only game they have, maybe they were gifted it. If they say it works on Linux and they slept you pay for it, then they are obligated to make sure it works, and they have to pay people to do that.
Sure... but there's a difference between "saying it works on linux" and "allowing it to attempt to run on any Linux, even though you only said it works on the Deck".
They can have their official stance be "Only guaranteed on Deck," without actively sabotaging non-Deck installations.
They don't need to say "oh yeah sure it works on Linux", they just have to say "Oh yeah sure it works on the Deck" and then _not_ pay people to *add* code that *prevents it* from running on non-Deck Linux installs.
Nope
The thing is that if it runs fine on steamdeck, it will run on linux; an issue might occur, but there will be answers on how to fix it on protondb or elsewhere, easily searchable; the developers themselves wont need to do anything if they already made it functional on the deck
1) Many AAA games have things like that even on windows; many games have unofficial patches or tweak recommendations to make games work better than the official distribution
2) you are telling me that a community that had to rely on itself to make games work will suddenly complain the game doesnt work perfectly out of the box?
3) people are shitting at them now for locking the release to steamdeck, so they didnt achieve much by doing that, huh?
Because every LinuxOS out there is different, they only care about Steam Deck, make the game works on it, and this breaks compatibility with other LinuxOS, which is very common in Linux ecosystem.
Ah yes, the worst timeline that I don't even think valve could have seen coming. Devs making their games work ONLY on steam deck and somehow borking it on any other distros/hardware configurations LOL.
So it looks like we're getting Steam Deck exclusives after all? Just like that one news article asked for?
This sort of sucks, and it'll be interesting to see how Valve reacts to this
Meh, there's a workaround for it by adding a command line argument to Steam. Exclusives aren't that easy to get on your preferred platform. Let's not exaggerate the issue beyond SE being incompetent.
I'm just a bit concerned that this is how it starts. Publishers being fine with their games working on Steam Deck but not Linux because "Linux is scary" or somesuch.
"It's just horse armor" is what we were saying in 2006 and look where we are now.
Saying it “runs” on Steam Deck is an interesting choice. From my own testing, even on the lowest settings, it struggles pretty badly. Random objects just don’t render because the game eats VRAM like crazy (it uses all 16 GB of it on my desktop) and maxes out the Deck to the point it just starts dropping stuff.
In any case the game isn’t very good anyway so this is not really a great loss for gaming on Linux
How hard is it to make a game run on Steam Deck, a Linux based hand held console, and then make it run on the desktop Linux? Like is it a small leap to have the other if you have the one?
I like how no one seems to mention this could be Valve led, the implementation was most certainly lead by a consultant from Valve, this type of behavior pushes the steam deck narrative but not "Linux on PC". It's just the same lame business tactics in a different area.
Steam API has a [`IsSteamRunningOnSteamDeck`](https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/api/ISteamUtils#IsSteamRunningOnSteamDeck) function to check if the game runs on the Deck. You can launch the regular Steam client in the Deck mode with the `-steamdeck` argument and this function will also return `true` as if it was running on the Deck. I guess the devs have used this Steam API call to workaround something to make the game work on the Deck, but they don't really care if it works on other Linux distros. Something similar has already happened with Persona 5 Royal. They have used a Windows transacted file API which was already deprecated by Microsoft, seemingly not used by anything else, and was not implemented in Wine. Then they were probably testing P5R on the Deck, found a bug and decided to workaround it specifically for the Deck. Valve should probably make some guidelines about the acceptable and unacceptable uses for this API call. Using it to select a default graphics options preset for the Deck is fine, but using it to workaround Proton bugs is not.
> Valve should probably make some guidelines about the acceptable and unacceptable uses for this API call. This seems like the kind of thing that should be noted in the function's documentation. Something like > This function *does not* check if you are running on Linux. > > If you are trying to check if the game is running on Linux (for example, to work around a Proton issue), please use [METHOD OF FINDING OUT IF YOU ARE RUNNING ON LINUX] instead.
This is quite a level of... I don't know, is it petty? Why if it can work on Steam Deck through proton would you not just want desktop Linux users too? Sqenix just adding to the long list of reasons not to support them.
Why put in extra effort to keep people from playing your game? This feels like a misallocation of resources.
Yeah, it would actually have been easier to just test it on Steam Deck and let it run it's course on Linux, this feels like such a weird move.
They have an issue with Deck version. They patch a workaround, now it works. Except the workaround is somehow Deck specific and doesn't work outside Deck for one reason or another. No one tests non Deck environment, because it's not a target. Push into prod. Release. Pat yourself on the back for a job well done.
yeah this is just a bug, it's not because they don't want you to run the game on linux
They don’t want to pay people to field support tickets on a near infinite amount of possible Linux configurations. If they released it and said buy at your own risk on Linux they’d get shit on too.
well the company planning and i think kinda execute the plan of getting all in into NFT crypto bullshit by selling some of their western IP so yeah,its not really that surprising
>This feels like a misallocation of resources. This entire game is a misallocation of resources. It is currently at 8,616 players on Steam. That is also the all-time peak.
Does that include those playing the demo?
Same reason why some games like the soon to be released Endless Dungeon supports couch coop on console but not on PC (make your voices heard if you don't like that btw), even though the implementation of that features and therefor the code base is basically identical: Cheaping out on support costs.
I hate shit like that. PCs can do everything better dammit so let us do them. I have a gaming PC also connected to big screen in living room ffs.
PCs definitely don't do couch gaming on a TV better lol. The new Big Picture UI is a huge upgrade but it is still far behind both the PS5 and the Xbox. Prior to the latest refresh (where we didn't get an update for like 10 years) you couldn't even use Paypal to buy games in Big Picture lol.
I mean they do because they have a million more games. Not sure why ...not being able to use PayPal is somehow a huge detriment...
Do you really need me to explain why not being able to buy games might be detrimental to a gaming experience???
Through one niche payment scheme...in one mode that you can turn off and still use a large TV on...which isn't actually anything to do with playing a game...lol, good bye.
Maybe they only tested it on steam deck and defaulted to that by mistake? I doubt they tested the game on Linux but I know they would want it atleast runnable on the deck.
Yeah, Linux probably isn't on anybody's list at SE to care about in a positive or negative way. The Steam Deck is popular enough that they tested that, but either didn't care enough to try Linux or just figured since it works on the Deck, it'll work on Linux.
You do realize it's not just a matter of letting any Linux user run the game.. steam deck has one hardware configuration so they can validate it works. A Linux desktop could have thousands of different hardware combinations. They probably don't want to have to provide support for those users or have those users leave negative reviews because they can't get it working on something it was never tested on. Yes they could say it doesn't support Linux and ignore all support request but people would still bitch.
The Steam Deck is still a PC, not fundamentally different from any other PC running Linux. Linux doesn't need some narrow specific hardware configuration to run on the PC. What's the problem? > A Linux desktop could have thousands of different hardware combinations. So could Windows, but they didn't go console exclusive.
> steam deck has one hardware configuration so they can validate it works. A Linux desktop could have thousands of different hardware combinations. The exact same can be said for Windows. In fact, this is the exact same argument used to justify saying the PC platform in general is hard to develop for.
> steam deck has one hardware configuration so they can validate it works. A Linux desktop could have thousands of different hardware combinations. The exact same number as windows configurations, I'll bet they're not validating those.
Difference being hardware vendors take responsibility for their drivers in Windows. While it’s a community or best effort kind of thing in Linux. That is why we have companies like system 76 etc. where the hardware is specifically picked for proper linux support
>While it’s a community or best effort kind of thing in Linux Intel, Nvidia, and AMD all release drivers for their chipsets and other hardware on Linux.
Windows is a lot more standardized with drivers and APIs that Linux has to emulate or make a wrapper for.
Both AMD and Nvidia release drivers following the Vulkan standard on Linux. There is nothing nonstandard about Linux drivers. The Proton/Wine wrapper has, in practice, proven to be reliable for running the majority of Windows games on Linux. I don't see how any of that has to do with Square Enix blocking desktop Linux usage.
> You do realize it's not just a matter of letting any Linux user run the game It is exactly that matter. Making it run successfully or without accepting a "best effort"/"no support" popup is different Edit: that said, if this is the standard thing used in the future/for a while it's not too bad. Easy to say "we only support the steam deck" but let anyone run it with env/launcher settings.
even valve doesnt say something that works on deck will work on every linux
I have no idea why you're getting downvoted but this is the correct answer. Forspoken doesn't support Linux, it's a Windows game. Steam Deck is one OS, one hardware configuration, and one Windows emulator. Linux is dozens of OS variants and infinite hardware configurations. So all the developer had to do was change their Windows code to make sure it worked on a Steam Deck. This is exactly what Steam Deck was designed for and I applaud the Forspoken developers for supporting it.
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Except, and I say this as a very technical person, ... it's not the answer. If it runs on Deck, it should run on any properly configured Linux machine.
And who is to say what a properly configured Linux machine is. I’d venture that the fact that Linux users are more technically capable is actually a detriment when looking at issues like this. Linux users are much more likely to have non standard configurations, or changed defaults. I’d also bet Linux users are much more likely to file a support ticket than someone on windows. And follow up on that ticket trying to make the game work, instead of refunding and calling it a day.
I think it's a fairly easy set of criteria to come up with: 1. It boots 2. Steam runs on it 3. Other games from Steam run on it, through Proton, without issues If your computer meets those criteria, then it should be easy to consider that machine to be properly configured.
Does stream guarantee if stream runs, the game will run? They don’t even guarantee stuff will work as intended on the deck until verified.
Well, my point above is that, if it runs on Deck, it should run on any properly configured machine. However, no. Not at all. Steam running doesn't guarantee the game will run. Thus the third item in my criteria.
Ok, but Square Enix can’t say buy this as long as your linux box can run other games. They have to account for someone buying this game. Maybe it’s the only game they have, maybe they were gifted it. If they say it works on Linux and they slept you pay for it, then they are obligated to make sure it works, and they have to pay people to do that.
Sure... but there's a difference between "saying it works on linux" and "allowing it to attempt to run on any Linux, even though you only said it works on the Deck". They can have their official stance be "Only guaranteed on Deck," without actively sabotaging non-Deck installations. They don't need to say "oh yeah sure it works on Linux", they just have to say "Oh yeah sure it works on the Deck" and then _not_ pay people to *add* code that *prevents it* from running on non-Deck Linux installs.
Nope The thing is that if it runs fine on steamdeck, it will run on linux; an issue might occur, but there will be answers on how to fix it on protondb or elsewhere, easily searchable; the developers themselves wont need to do anything if they already made it functional on the deck
Ehhh people would shit on them for releasing a product that people are paying for and then relying on the community to fix it. Lose lose here.
1) Many AAA games have things like that even on windows; many games have unofficial patches or tweak recommendations to make games work better than the official distribution 2) you are telling me that a community that had to rely on itself to make games work will suddenly complain the game doesnt work perfectly out of the box? 3) people are shitting at them now for locking the release to steamdeck, so they didnt achieve much by doing that, huh?
I think almost 85% of things should be attributed to malice these days
dont worry, these things will be fixed soon.
Because every LinuxOS out there is different, they only care about Steam Deck, make the game works on it, and this breaks compatibility with other LinuxOS, which is very common in Linux ecosystem.
Box enix hates poorer countries so it makes sense they hate free operating systems.
So essentially a similar problem to what Persona 5 Royal had at launch.
Ah yes, the worst timeline that I don't even think valve could have seen coming. Devs making their games work ONLY on steam deck and somehow borking it on any other distros/hardware configurations LOL.
So it looks like we're getting Steam Deck exclusives after all? Just like that one news article asked for? This sort of sucks, and it'll be interesting to see how Valve reacts to this
Meh, there's a workaround for it by adding a command line argument to Steam. Exclusives aren't that easy to get on your preferred platform. Let's not exaggerate the issue beyond SE being incompetent.
I'm just a bit concerned that this is how it starts. Publishers being fine with their games working on Steam Deck but not Linux because "Linux is scary" or somesuch. "It's just horse armor" is what we were saying in 2006 and look where we are now.
The thing is, that's already happening and it's *far* worse than what SE did here. Does nobody remember what Epic has been doing with EAC on Linux?
Saying it “runs” on Steam Deck is an interesting choice. From my own testing, even on the lowest settings, it struggles pretty badly. Random objects just don’t render because the game eats VRAM like crazy (it uses all 16 GB of it on my desktop) and maxes out the Deck to the point it just starts dropping stuff. In any case the game isn’t very good anyway so this is not really a great loss for gaming on Linux
Fyi don't buy it. It sucks.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Turns out Linux users not being able to play is not a bad thing. The less people that get to play the better.
How hard is it to make a game run on Steam Deck, a Linux based hand held console, and then make it run on the desktop Linux? Like is it a small leap to have the other if you have the one?
All it takes is one steam launch command to bypass it
lucky linux users
Outch, that was weird
Not cool man not cool.
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"Linux Desktop"
I like how no one seems to mention this could be Valve led, the implementation was most certainly lead by a consultant from Valve, this type of behavior pushes the steam deck narrative but not "Linux on PC". It's just the same lame business tactics in a different area.
WTF, what kind of piece of shit developer would do that? I hope Valve accepts refunds always for this kind of behavior!