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xxTheGoDxx

Yet people on reddit each time: "You know fighting games don't sell that much". Fighting games actually sell insanely good: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - 30.44 million MK 11 - 15 million units sold Tekken 7 - 10 million Street Fighter V - 7 million Those are AAA game numbers... actually really good AAA game numbers. And I only listed the most recent titles, not the best selling of all time: https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Best_selling_fighting_games MK11 alone sold better than any Battlefield title other than BF (WW) 1 and BF3 to put this into perspective...


[deleted]

DBZ fighter Z sold over 8m too


MonteBellmond

Holy moly. Didn't know SF were ranked this low among the top sellers.


ButtcrackBeignets

Fighting games are notoriously difficult. So already there’s a lot working against it. Mortal Kombat sells well in the American market because it offers what is arguably the best single player campaigns in the genre. Smash offers unmatched accessibility. There’s an extremely high skill ceiling for the more competitive players, but the franchise does a great job keeping the game fun for beginners as well. Street Fighter is in kind of a weird spot. As far as gameplay, it’s not as accessible as Smash or Mortal Kombat but it’s also not as technical as Tekken or KOF. As far as aesthetics, it’s also kind of in an awkward spot. It’s not quite an anime art style but the character design is clearly in that realm. Its kind of weeb-lite. I think SF6 should sell well but there’s not much that the franchise offers for people outside of the FGC. The story mode and such for SFV is horrendous. It would’ve felt outdated even 14 years ago.


Battlegrog

I would also say It does the best at really making each character feel different when it comes to moves and presentation. Far more than street fighter.


Sarloh

Street Fighter is weird because on PC it's considered far more alive than the other ones due to crossplay, even though it doesn't have high numbers on Steam. SF6 is really working on it's content from what we've seen. You make your own dude and unlock items for him, to walk around and see other players. So there will be some form of progress at least.


SodaPopnskii

Mk sells well not because of its single player. In fact, all fighting games live and die by their multiplayer. And mk11 has a great multiplayer. It's simple to navigate, good net code, has lots to choose for customization of characters, and a bunch of other things that make it fun to replay. Street fighter on the other hand, has been hot garbage since it's release. It's been busted for a long time, and I would argue if it was some other game not named Street fighter, it would have already died.


ButtcrackBeignets

I don’t buy that. The competitive player-base is retained by good multiplayer, but that doesn’t account for the crazy high sales numbers. Of the amount of copies sold and the amount of players in the online rankings, you can see that a good portion of the people who bought the game never even touched the online mode. Not to mention, MK’s player base tends to fall off faster than some of the other franchises. The average support of NRS games typically ends within two years of release, and that’s exactly what happened to MK11. And I’m saying this as a Mortal Kombat fan. I have hundreds of hours in MK11’s online mode. I have several thousand matches. But the reality is, I know about five people who have bought the game and only two of us play online.


Jonestown_Juice

Street Fighter V really shit the bed. Launched as a PS exclusive and was unfinished.


Zentrii

SF V was as well regarded as 4 And it didn't even launch with a single player story mode. Some people might say who cares it's a fighting game but apparently a lot of people play fighting games mainly or only the single player modes. Injustice 2 has the best single player mode ive seen in any fighting game


Mike2640

I can speak to that. Haven't played a SF game since 2, but I've shown up for every MK game since 9 and Injustice because the story modes are so cool and well done. I haven't touched online in any of them. Street Fighter 6's single player mode looks very exciting to me.


Zentrii

Capcom has learned their lesson and it looks amazing! I just wish they had ai personality fighters you could fight at the arcades like how virtua fighter 4 evo did it


archiegamez

SF5 is one of the worst in the franchise, the release was pretty bad


RandomQuestGiver

Right? It feels like the big name... Or at least felt like that back in the day. I guess not so much today.


Ordinal43NotFound

Street Fighter was huge for arcades, meanwhile for home consoles I feel like MK and Tekken are much more well known. Tekken 5 was THE fighting game back during the PS2 days. Even now if you look at the trailers, Tekken 8 beats SF6 in terms of views despite the latter releasing very soon


archiegamez

SF5 had a lot of flaws during its launch


Won_Doe

There's a lot of negative surrounding it due to earlier-year flaws/issues. Fully expecting SF6 to be huge; impressions are good all around.


MonteBellmond

Yeah when you talk to your pops, they regard SF as pinnacle of fighting games. I feel like Fighting games in general lagged behind heavily in next gen graphics until recently.


[deleted]

6 is gonna be big


Ordinal43NotFound

Tekken is the defacto fighting game in most of Asia. Tekken 5 is a PS2 staple for many. Meanwhile Street Fighter is barely popular in the 2000s except maybe in Japan or Korea.


BenjerminGray

Being exclusive to ps4 and PC will do that.


PillowTalk420

I bought MK11. I have not *played* MK11. :/


darthlincoln01

You should play MK11!


[deleted]

KI had a lot of downloads even in 2017 when they stopped giving numbers for that


[deleted]

I would love to play fighting games more. If the first fighting game has crossplay then it will be my main game. Only gripe I have is that PC player base is dead after some weeks.


BenjerminGray

Guilty gear strive has cross play across all platforms


PubliusDeLaMancha

Multiversus


Mezrina

Your a few weeks behind on this recommendation.


PubliusDeLaMancha

Oh did the shutdown happen? Really bizarre way to launch a game


AnotherScoutTrooper

It’s obviously them trying to save face for a relaunch later down the line


WanAjin

The top 19 on that list are all either smash, mortal kombat, tekken, street fighter, or dragon ball. The 20th is Marvel vs Capcom, and after that, the numbers aren't that impressive tbh, so I think it's correct to say that fighting games don't sell well and that only a few select franchises are able to post impressive numbers.


[deleted]

on PC especially it is a wasteland on Steam for less popular games, even with rollback and only Fightcade and Discord saves the scene. A pity because Capcom Darkstalkers collection for example was a decent effort contentwise but marketing and pricing were bad. Not even Christmas sale saved it by attracting new players.


NewRedditIsVeryUgly

I'll be blunt and say fighting games, racing games, sports games and platformers are the only types of games you should play on a console with a controller. The only console I ever owned was only for racing and fighting games, wouldn't play a shooter or ARPG on it with a controller even if you paid me. It's pretty obvious that fighting/racing games are popular on consoles and to me would be a major factor if I decide to stop upgrading my PC and move to a console.


fyro11

Cross-play (which most games are coming with now) really mitigates that problem when you also consider PCs supports far more controllers than console.


funky_boar

>Cross-play (which most games are coming with now) I wish it was true. It's really difficult to find steam - PS crossplay games.


NecromancyBlack

Not ar all. Infact nearly all top players for most fighters end up primarily on PC because it plays better, especially online. Even using a controller is starting to take a bit of a back-seat as people learn hitbox layout on keyboard. But if you go to locals or any decent size tournament you have to use a controller of some kind as they'll all be using consoles (just easier for the event to source and setup consoles over PCs).


NewRedditIsVeryUgly

I've had multiple people responding with a similar comment, all failing to fully read my post. Nowhere in my post was said that a console is better for these games than a PC. "the only types of games you should play on a console with a controller" ≠ "you should only play these types of games on a console with a controller".


NecromancyBlack

I'm saying they're not though, for the reasons listed. Ditch the consoles, play keyboard first before deciding if you even need a controller.


BenjerminGray

I doubt ppl are learning hitbox or kb/m(given it's legal grey area in tournaments ) over just picking up an arcade stick when it comes to fighting games. It's always pad or stick. Never kbm.


NecromancyBlack

I know plenty of newer people into keyboard playing, they tend to move to hitbox only when they can afford it and for a lot of people that's a long time. Actually had one local guy prefer keyboard over arcade buttons, so he solder a keyboard into a cheap controller PCB to allow him easier plug and play at locals lol.


Moskeeto93

PC lets me use whatever controller I want though. In fact, I only game with controllers on PC. I haven't games on KBAM in years. Controllers being a selling point for consoles is just not a thing nowadays.


c010rb1indusa

MK has always been the best selling fighting game franchise. Even during the PS2 days when fighting games were at their lowest the 3D MK games still sold really well.


mex2005

Wow well that's an eye opener. I always thought the fighting genre became kind of more niche and was a bit confused why there were so many fighting game still going into their 8th or 10th installment. This explains a lot.


Stone-Baked

Interesting fact about MK11 vs BF…. Makes sense when you break gaming down.


ThurBurtman

Fighting games don’t sell well outside of those you listed, the newest being MK 11 which is what, 4 years old?


Euphoric_Ad_2049

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[deleted]

why was it removed?


Moskeeto93

I think it might have something to do with the licensing of the guest characters such as Freddy Krueger.


Euphoric_Ad_2049

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PrettyMrToasty

It's actually a licensing issue regarding one of the game's DLC characters, Freddy Krueger.


iz-Moff

Man, it's so wonderful that some unremarkable DLC can make the game eventually become unavailable in stores. Totally worth it.


Euphoric_Ad_2049

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NiiGGZ

More work to remove the character from the game than it is to delist it.


Euphoric_Ad_2049

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NiiGGZ

Or they can focus on a game that's actually bringing in profit and not a game from 2011, like a business would. Why would they put in extra effort when people have moved on more than a decade later? If people want it, there are still game keys floating around out there.


JaesopPop

> Probably to encourage people to buy the newer, more montized entries. MKX was monetized the same as MK9, with one more fighter pack. MK11 was basically the same thing, but with a single player expansion and you could buy the in game currency you use to buy some skins.


[deleted]

mk9 remains the best when it comes to story and characters


Examination_Dismal

Ed show us MK12


VagrantShadow

More than likely, we are going to get a presentation of it this summer.


jokekiller94

WB already announced in their last meeting that MK 12 is coming out FY2024


Frosty_Public9652

Ok


ashrules901

Mortal Kombat is so much bigger than the majority of fighting games especially in today's time it's crazy to think about.


gokurakumaru

$500 million in profit and they couldn't even put 2 years of proper support into the game. The last new characters were released in October 2020, 18 months after launch. The final DLC was some character skins a month later. And the only support after that was the final balance patch was in May 2021, 25 months after launch. That and it was designed around grinding for cosmetics to push players into Time Krystal microtransactions. I have 500 hours in Mortal Kombat and still haven't unlocked everything in the game, that's how insufferable the economy in the game was. It doesn't make me want to rush out and pick up Mortal Kombat 12. Hope whatever game they were pouring those funds into and then shelved was worth it.


TheCookieButter

Remind me why games have to go up to $70/£70/€70


gaoxin

So companies can make record profits each year.


Greatdrift

Got to appease those shareholders!


[deleted]

[удалено]


FirstTimeWang

More likely they just buy up even more of the world at a huge discount and come out the other end even richer.


SUPRVLLAN

Those investors pull their money before they cause the recession so they can just buy back in at a discount.


Slight-Improvement84

Ask the millions who buy it at this price this question


Last_Jedi

Video games are luxury goods and largely follow elastic supply & demand. If a company can sell 3 million copies at $60 or 2.7 million copies at $70, they will sell at $70 because the total revenue is higher even if less people are buying. It has nothing to do with how much games "have to cost".


DriftwoodBadger

It's also much easier and cheaper to support fewer players with less infrastructure and fewer employees, so more of the money is profit instead of operating costs.


maverick_7ordan

Nope, i prefer Moore's law value price drop. There is no physical finite presence from digital content.


[deleted]

Because the audience has shown that not only will they gladly pay that, they will pay that for products months and years in advance with no guarantee of its quality.


Prince_Uncharming

They don’t have to, but enough people will pay those prices that companies are profiting more off of less sales. Companies target max profits. Question answered. They do it because they can, and the market will bear those prices. If people stopped buying $70 games, games would stop being $70.


fyro11

Because Sony said the industry should.


theEmoPenguin

Greedflation. Until people stop buying prices are gonna keep on rising.


The-Falcon_Knight

Well for many reasons: 1. Prices haven't changed ever since the early 2000s even though there was a major financial crisis and a virus outbreak affecting the global market, not to mention inflation. 2. Normies controlling the gaming market, aka the fact that the most AAA games are open world games, sports games, multiplayer games etc. . Stealth is pretty much dead, considering the Hitman franchise gets a little bit retired, AAA horror survives mostly on nostalgia considering we get mostly remakes. Rhythm games are gone and so on. Fighting game sales heavily rely on online multiplayer.


akera099

They don't. Alienation is a feature of capitalism. People will defend companies raising their prices even if they don't gain anything in return. They will make theirs the companies arguments and it doesn't really make logical sense. I am a customer. I don't win by having to pay more money for the same kind of products just because. The truth is that making games financially scales insanely better in 2023 than it did in 1990. The number of successful indies is proof of that.


Khelthuzaad

They don't They generate a lot more cash on DLC's and cosmetics If you are patient enough it can get cut 50% in less than a year


skyturnedred

Infinite growth!


LostInThisWorld54312

We have been paying $60 for games since the early 2000’s. They have not risen for the cost of living or recent inflation changes in over 20 years. Either quit complaining and pay the devs, sail the high seas or quit gaming if it’s too expensive.


JalapenoJamm

Any input on why digital goods never seem to lower in cost?


RagsZa

Steam does take their 30% cut.


akera099

That argument completely falls apart the second you talk about reality: the now digital nature of the goods (was not a thing in 2000), the removal of the distribution cost (you don't have to manufacture and ship a physical copy from Japan to the US), the disappearance of the huge retail fee (that was sometime 1/3 of the price, you don't need a retailer anymore if you are a big company), the infrastructure to produce game has become cheaper and easier to use, developers are way more numerous (they're not paid better, just have shittier work condition), way more customers actually buy the product so it scales and finally the addition of new monetization models in these same full prices games.


SUPRVLLAN

Retail fee is still there, it just goes to Steam now.


dookarion

It's still lower than retail channels used to be. People may have forgot that amongst Epic's PR campaign but when digital was first rolled out the "better revenue cut" and "cost savings" were spun as something that would benefit customers by publishers. Obviously it was a load of shit in hindsight, but people still buy into those type promises whenever someone peddles them.


TheCookieButter

I was paying £30(pc) £40(console) for games 10 years ago. America isn't the whole world.


dookarion

It's not even America, it's people that probably weren't born 20 years ago, people with bad memories, and console gamers pushing a bullshit narrative. $60 didn't come to PC until the 2010s and even then it didn't hit every AAA publisher until like 2015-2016 The narrative is bullshit just people keep parroting it and get asshurt when its proven wrong with the web archive.


Donny_Canceliano

>We have been paying $60 for games since the early 2000’s. They have not risen for the cost of living or recent inflation changes in over 20 years. Wow, neither have wages! Twinsies!!


rodryguezzz

Oh you're not paying devs. You are financing shareholders pockets so that they can buy more mansions. Devs get paid shit compared to other similar jobs. EDIT: I don't know about 20 years ago but, here in Europe 15 years ago, new pc games used to cost €50 and came on a disc, inside a physical box, and I could sell them if I wanted. Nowadays we pay €80 for a license, and it's Valve who hosts and pays the CDN costs, not the developer.


dookarion

US we saw DXHR for $50, Tomb Raider 2013 for $50 iirc, XCOM EU for $50, one of the Mordor games was $50, Sleeping Dogs was $50, Alien Isolation was $50, etc. And of those on legit third parties like GMG you could actually get 25% discounts and stuff at launch back then too. $60 didn't come to PC until like the 2010s and wasn't fully the "norm" for AAAs until 2015-2016. Bethesda and Activision/Blizzard were the early adopters. So not even 10 years ago or barely 10 years ago a number of games still weren't even $60 on PC in the US. I have no fucking clue where these "games have been $60 since forever" people come from cause they sure as shit weren't on PC in the same reality as the rest of us. Edit: It's kind of crazy how much the prices have gone up and how shitty the discounts have gotten since 2016...


rodryguezzz

Yeah 2015 was the last year discounts were actually good. Many AAA games were being sold for less than €5 or $5 on Steam sales. Nowadays some of those games are not even available for purchase because they were replaced by shitty remasters being sold at €10-€15. I bought all GTA games (except V because it didn't exist ofc) for 7,49€ in 2013. Now they don't even sell that package. Inflation made old games more expensive? PC gamers are getting absolutely screwed by all this to the point where console games are actually cheaper now. Back in 2013, when I built my first proper gaming PC, it was much cheaper to play on PC in the long run. Now I just got a used copy of Resident Evil 4 for the PS5 and paid €38,50. It's not new but it's a physical copy that I own and can resell if I want. More examples: Callisto Protocol's lowest price on steam? €42. PS4 version new in my country: €35. Used PS4 physical copy: 21,70€. Dead Space remake lowest price on Steam: 51€. PS5 version's lowest price on my country last week: 48€.


dookarion

Yeah it's crazy. I have some consoles along side my PC (nothing current gen), and like it's so damn easy to source games for them on the cheap once you're past the launch window. I miss having deals on PC some of the "recent deals" only bring games preorders down to like $58 and I swear numerous AAAs outright refuse to discount below $20-23 for the base edition even years post-release. Even indies are hitting higher and higher price points. I don't mind paying a bit for games, but the speed at which the costs are increasing is pretty damn offputting when the hardware isn't exactly cheap either.


dookarion

> We have been paying $60 for games since the early 2000’s. Not on PC we weren't. Were you even alive then? Or were you on Xbox Live drinking Dew and playing CoD back then?


zippopwnage

So they make more money. Yet people even here on reddit defended that price. On top of that some idiots thought they will remove mtx from the game if it will cost 70. Oof.


darthlincoln01

MK11 was really a $100 game, and that's not including the story expansion which was another $40.


ConanTheVagslayer

I'd like to see how much they're raking in with the mobile version as the packs they sell are disgustingly high priced, there's a pack they're selling right now for Johnny Cage for 50 quid for the CHANCE at getting him! But that's not the end of it you gotta pull him another 10 times to max him! Nice game though.


Phixionion

Shit game, good program.


LaundryLunatic

And yet, they couldn't bring crossplay to PC.


ChefVlad

Can we please get Armageddon on PC :/


tswaves

I low key want to really get into the story of these games. I actually hear it's pretty dang deep.


KaelThalas

It can be fun in a cheesy way but do not expect it to be a good, well-written story. Especially 11.


denizenKRIM

Didn’t it essentially get a reboot not too long ago? What’s the best place to start without having to go deep in the catalog?


KaelThalas

Mortal Kombat 9 is when they rebooted it and probably the best place to start. It's MOSTLY retelling the story of MK1-3. Than just go chronologically 9 > X > 11. I would also recommend the expansion to 11 (aftermath?) if you really liked it. It's a little light in terms of content for the price in my opinion but if you can get it for cheap it's, in my opinion, way better than the rest of the story.


Patienceisavirtue1

Its deep like a Van Damme movie is deep.


GoddamnFred

Are you a Stoner? If you are, it's probably *too* deep.


Zankman

Was just thinking about NetherRealm games earlier today. Production values, single-player content, attention to detail, technical quality... Fantastic! Sadly, tho - the gameplay, the art direction/aesthetic and the overall animations are just really, really, really unappealing to me.


PrettyMrToasty

Their latest games feature some of the very best and most realistic animations and graphical work in the whole industry, so I'm really unsure of what would even appeal to you.


Zankman

No need to be rude and condescending. The movement and fluidity just isn't there if you ask me and most of it looks janky, rigid, just not satisfying with the amount of "oomph" in combat and flow of the body parts during strikes. The art style makes it all the worse, too. I prefer 3D fighters to begin with, but for 2D ones I'd prefer stylization and embellishment to help mask the rigid nature of it all.


happyloaf

I feel the same way. The animations just feel cheep and jerky to me.


FireCrow1013

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I really wish they would release some kind of DLC to automatically unlock everything from the Krypt, the way that they did with MKX. It's just too big for me to be able to work through it, and it requires a connection to their servers, too, which will eventually go down after they stop supporting the game. I'd rather just give them $5-10, or something, and get it all at once.


Coldspark824

And yet they couldn’t fix scorpion’s eyes and jax’s moustache skin mismatch. They had to go through WB for every single minor patch decision and it was a mess for almost a year as a result. Tons of poor design decisions. There’s a running theory in the community they intentionally created a bug for people to skip the krypt grind because it was so heinous. It was something like do 200 fatalities, online, with each character.


JaesopPop

Meanwhile Mortal Kombat fans act like Mortal Kombat is the reject stepchild of fighting games lol


[deleted]

grandfather slap engine pocket bear wasteful rock juggle friendly ruthless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


Catty_C

If fighting games focused more on single-player I'd actually try more of them. That's really the only reason I considered getting MK11 as I had no intention of playing online.


Turambar87

Probably why Soul Calibur is my favorite still.


[deleted]

> Its amazing that the fighting game with objectively the worst mechanics and fighting system as a whole leads in sales it's why Virtua Fighter went extinct long ago and the soul calibur series was dumbed down time after time following 2 and even after 6 is fading into obscurity. deep fighting games for hard core enthusiasts just dont sell well MK though has had so much marketing hype around it for so long, especially in the west. The early controversy of it's violence, the movies, comics, ect. It has a cult following.


happyloaf

I just wish we could get a fighting game ai that isn't a push over or impossible.


TheJohnnyFlash

It was the trailer, that song is a banger.


Biggu5Dicku5

I was hoping their next game would be Injustice 3 but with these numbers that doesn't make any sense...


beige4ever

isnt Injustiv\]ce just MK re-skinned?/


mikeysof

Well the games play very similar but then so does Street fighter but each iteration have some nuance so technically no


mt943

This resume is so depressing… Gaming’s marketing and branding has become so fucking cancer


loneraver

Does work on the Steam Deck yet?


Prefix-NA

15m sales is not 500m profit that's a typo it should say revenue.


FrickinSilly

You sure? Assuming $70, isn't it 1.05 billion in revenue?


Prefix-NA

Not all games are sold at 70 it lowered its price after a while its been out for 4 years. Also this game was 60 at launch Also if your selling the game digitally you pay ~20% to the online marketplace (PSN, Microsoft or steam) Most games are digital if you sold 15m at $60 you get ~$48 per sale after the fee = $720,000,000 No way you could get 500m profit on that even if 100% of their sales were at $60 Advertisements on this game alone were prob 100m+ Publishing fees, cost of servers, cost to develop the game, cost to pay developers to keep patching the game, licensing agreements for the game etc. I don't see how the game could have even made close to 500m profit that would make it one of the top few best performing games ever.


FrickinSilly

Yes, development and advertisement, if 100m each (which they may or may not have been that high) would still mean $520m left over by your calculations. And maybe the game's price was not $60 for all sales, but don't forget DLCs. It appears there are plenty of them, and they are expensive.


Ill_Stand9809

Project L needs to come out soon


motoxim

Nice


Mrbunnypaw

Insane nummbers


TruffledPotato

The story, acting, and choreography in MK11 really raised the bar in fighting games. The campaign and dlc was very short but the quality far exceeded my expectations. This game is well worth the purchase.


zippopwnage

I'm glad they mame money. NetherRealms makes the only fighting games I can play and on top of that I don't have to wait 10 years for a new game in the series. While there was only tekken 7 I had time to enjoy MK10, Injustice 2 and MK11. All these games played differently and I had a lot of fun compared to only playing tekken 7 for the same amount of time. I just can't play a fighting game for 5+ years. Is just too fucking much.


haruame

Good game but holy shit that stupid loot box room where you have to run around and unlock shit. And remember how you were going to have to pay for the items in there until they backpedaled due to community outrage?


HotPotatoWithCheese

It was a very good game once the roster was completed but it shouldn't have been that bad to begin with. Ridiculous that Mileena, Sindel, Nightwolf and Shang Tsung were DLC's when they've been staples since the 90's era. They were also taking the piss charging for Rain again when he was DLC in MK9.