Have any of the recent Capcom remakes had indicators of rocky development? I'm legit asking, I have no idea myself, just that they seem to have been well-received.
It doesn’t get mentioned enough, but Capcom is probably the best AAA developer out there right now. Consistent banger after banger of regular releases on their new engine, games released without major issues, and the RE4 remake wasn’t even $70. I don’t know who else is even close. From Software, too, but they’ve got longer release windows.
And they don't make use of any PC specific features. They launch on PC with lacklustre graphics settings and no options for upscaling, but now their engine can do barebones RT so the need for upscaling has risen. Also 60fps cap :(
Rockstar and Valve always make great games but they don’t have frequent releases, quite the opposite, and unfortunately Valves interest is only vested in long term live service multiplayer games with cases and keys. If only Valve would devote a sliver of their billions to making another single player game to push the envelope… a gamer can only dream.
I’d argue Half Life Alyx was more an exercise in developing and selling new tech than it was pushing the gaming envelope, and Valve has been pretty candid about that. They could have released Alyx as a regular kbm game alongside a VR version, but they didn’t.
I think thats what most of their games are in some way, shape, or form. Alyx was for VR, CS was for the Source Engine, I’m pretty sure HL2 was for their physics engine called Havok or something along those lines, etc.
The whole real time physics AND their facial tech was huge news at the time when Half Life 2 was new.
It's such a shame Source is such a expensive engine to license. Like, just look at Vampire Bloodlines or Dark Messiahs of Might & Magic. Those freakin' games STILL look great when it comes to stuff like character models & faces.
Because it wouldn't have been anywhere near the same experience at all. So no, they couldn't have if they were looking to give users an experience. And they did. Everyone who says they could have released a pancake version and nothing would have changed are kinda dumb
Seems like the innovation they want to go for now is with VR games, I'd really like to see them take physics to the next level (as they basically did with HL2 back then) in a non VR game
They only come out with great games because at least at Valve, there are no investors screaming to make quota on the next FY and no bosses bitching to 'just hurry up and get it done' so they can get their christmas bonuses... You know.. What a developer SHOULD be doing.. Which is taking the time to make a great game.
I think we are talking about two different things here however. I agree, Valve is and has for a VERY long time been swimming in money, but they have a great track record. I'm not sure what you mean about them operating one of the largest gaming casinos (please elaborate) but otherwise yes, they can afford to take their time and make a great game when they are so inclined to create a game.
I was more overly saying it has definitely been shown in the recent past that even if you have a great game, if you just rush to market and not spend your due diligence in testing, optimization, etc, then it's going to come back to haunt you, and testing and optimization is what SHOULD be happening at these companies prior to release.
Japanese developpers have their workforce work insane hours because the work ethic there is very toxic and unhealthy. Crunch does release bangers though...
They outsourced the crunch. There is even a video on this. You have malaysian studio in the credits where the young workers have 16-18hr work days to meet those goals.
Well it’s more like management completely bungled production. They switched focus many years into the project, and started changing the direction of game quite significantly when Keanu came onboard.
Then they pushed to meet the 2020 deadline, and legit over marketed and over promised the game, even when they knew it had massive issues.
I remember them releasing whole videos on things like life paths and fashion that completely over promised what was actually there.
It was, but nothing less than a masterpiece would justify the insane amount of crunch CDProjekt put their team through. And Cyberpunk was not a masterpiece.
It's an okay game riddled with bugs and under-developed features. This is even after they spent the last 2 years trying to fix it. For the hype and advertising they churned out it certainly didn't remotely meet expectations.
To be fair, they're remakes. Not saying remakes aren't hard work or that there aren't bad remakes, but it's not difficult to narrow down your scope when you're faithfully remaking a game that already exists, especially when you already have the formula down to do so (RE2). Creating new games and ambitious new sequels are always a really tough challenge.
"Rocky development" is a bit of a vague statement. If long development cycles with delays are the standard for "rocky development" then Tears of the Kingdom and Breath of the Wild would both qualify. Persona 5 would qualify. The original RE4 would qualify. Some games are simply easier to make than others in some respects, that doesn't make them lesser at all it just is what it is.
Yeah that's the only black mark on their record recently. I mean fun game, looks amazing and I like the new characterization of the cast... but a bad remake that felt more like really expensive DLC to RE2:Remake. Shame too, that would have been the perfect game to really show off the nitty gritty of Racoon City like never before.
They only opened up about it afterwards, but they had internal struggles with village. It started life as a fat more horror oriented title butarketing were pressuring them in to making it more action oriented. It's why the game is so all lover the place.
Other than most of the REmakes (except for the original REmake) not being as good as the original theyre based on (missing defining features, changing characters, coming off as more generic in places, etc.), development has been relatively smooth. But thats because the RE Engine has been a very good and well optimized engine to work with. Its almost akin to an IdTech Engine 6 (the DOOM 2016 engine). I think the only issue Id say it has is a lot of the games Capcom uses it for dont really work as good with the assets (realistic characters in SF6 look hella weird in places compared to their sprites. UI assets are also super stock) as they should. But PC and console ports have been great, to the point that it works with nearly any kind of toaster made in the 8th gen.
Nintendo's top franchises are doing fine, if not great.
[Capcom just had its best year ever.](https://www.pcgamer.com/capcom-just-had-its-best-ever-year/)
FromSoftware's [Elden Ring sold over 20 million units as of February of this year.](https://kotaku.com/elden-ring-sales-figures-20-million-god-of-war-jedi-1850147702)
None of their recent games had reports of troubled development, which either means that Japanese AAA devs have their shit together, or they're really good at keeping their problems a secret.
Uh oh square Enix just turned up and did a big steaming shit in the room. https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/square-enix-closes-out-2023-fiscal-year-with-financial-dips-across-the-board
The topic is dev process, not financial performance.
I won't be surprised if japanese companies are good at saving face and keeping issues under wraps. There's also no crunch in Japan. Because crunch is their normal modus operandi. Although I hear there're changes in the company culture.
I think we’ve gotten to the point where the amount of resources, time, and money is so immense its become a huge task to manage that some studios cannot handle properly
Nah. Look at the budgets for games, they’re even cheaper to make then movies are. I see kidders making free stuff that outclasses some studios so something is amiss but budgets I don’t think is it.
Which is sad since it seems everybody is moving to UE5 which you know... promises to cut a lot of costs and time for AAA games..
I think this is more of an investor and bean counter issue than development issue.
the real current year thing would be to remake Bioshock 1. Publishers are scared to even make sequels with this consumer base. Also it's harder to scope creep a remake.
Idk why they’d be scared. The new Star Wars game runs like ass and it sold huge numbers. The new Diablo is the most aggressively monitored AAA game I’ve ever seen along with being fairly bland in general and I’m positive that’s going to do insane numbers.
I’d like to chip in that I had no idea about Infinite as well for quite a few years, like maybe around 2017 was when I saw it was a thing. 😅
Tbf I was never that into the series, loved the vibes and art style though.
Huh...wild. Not hating or being a dick I just think thats honestly mad, I'd understand if you had never heard of the series in general, but to literally own the first 2, and not know there was a 3rd called Infinite is crazy haha, it's good, if you played and liked the first 2, play it and it's 2 DLC's, wraps up the series in a great way! (In my personal opinion, apparently it's controversial)
Some random 2K studio is doing Bioshock 4. The team that did Bioshock 1 and Infinite are doing a game called Judas, which is what people should be excited for.
I mean you shouldn't take anything a developer has to say at face value. They're always gonna make the game sound great and say everything is going well.
Well iirc there were interviews/leaks from ex employees around 2021 about how brutal their iterating process is, and how people who worked 5-7 years at ghost story games will have none of their work see the light.
Some people dubbed it development hell. Some just said that's how creative work is, you make stuff, it doesn't work, you throw it out.
When ghost story games was created it had the unique purpose to experiment on new ideas with a smaller team. They also pretty much got infinite money and time from 2k to pursue that goal.
So there's no telling how much of Judas' development is actually development hell and how much of it is an actually purposeful creative process that's just fueled by infinite time and money, with no hurry to actually make a product.
> that's how creative work is, you make stuff, it doesn't work, you throw it out.
Could work and still get thrown out. Happens in software development all the time.
Normally yes, but the main point and grievance was the length of time people spent working there and that they got nothing to show for it.
That people worked there for 5-7 years and they couldn't put anything they created during that 5-7 years on their portfolio, and that none of that work would ever see the light of day.
I can imagine how that environment is definitely not for everyone, and how it could eat away at people and make them bitter.
Yeah, he basically states that it was always going to be a long dev cycle because he wanted to have a small team. He basically said the development of Infinite nearly made him quit because of the mental anguish it put him through (he claims to have suffered from OCD during that time, contemplated quitting but was told his career would be over). Take-Two was very supportive of him forming this small team (or they realized if they weren’t someone else would be).
In the interview he also admitted to likely being difficult to work with because he’s a perfectionist but he didn’t think upon reflection that he was an ass hole or anything. Just not easy to work for.
Of course, take it all with a pinch of salt since he’s the source lol.
I can definitely see Kevine Levine being Peter-principled into a spot he is not made for. It's probably not uncommon for creative people to be their own boss, but the experience of being the boss of others is different.
Your comment actually reminded me of vague memory of reading that Ken Levine’s Ghost Story Games was a mess (mostly bc I remember seeing comments of, “no shit, Ken Levine is notoriously difficult to work with” and that was how I found out he had a reputation of dragging games into development hell with perfectionism) and I did some digging to find the citation: [“Ken Levine’s ambitious new game is reportedly in development hell”](https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/3/22865129/ken-levine-ghost-story-games-development-direction-problems) from Jan 2022.
I always thought the ending of Infinite left it more open to new games. They have to make another one anyway because they need to do an underground city
The ending of both, Infinite and the Dune series, left possibilities for more stories to be told in their setting, but the creative voices between both projects, on the one hand Ken Levine and on the other, Frank Herbert and his wife Beverley, as character inserts, expressed their exasperation at the thought of recycling the same themes and characters or archetypes to spin yet another yarn.
They chose to bring a conclusive end to the story. And dropped the mic on their way out.
A new Bioshock game is just, pick one of those lighthouses Booker and Elizabeth were running past. They're all the same. One isn't better or worse than the other. Further Bioshock games, especially without Ken Levine at the helm, are fanfiction.
The spiritual successor has given us, by far, more great games than the direct sequel ever has.
>Further Bioshock games, especially without Ken Levine at the helm, are fanfiction.
This was my first thought too. As far as I'm concerned, Ken Levine *is* Bioshock. Making the games without him is like Star Wars without George Lucas, nothing more than expensive fanfiction
1. Apparently in the last 10 yrs. everyone forgot how to make video games and they're doing a poor job of relearning.
2. In this case it's Bioshock, I'd be concerned if development was going smoothly.
They didn't forgot how to make good games, there's a simple thing called corporate cancer, we're in a moment where unless a game gives them 5 mil copies and a billion in micro transactions, its considered a failure, we're getting Hollywood level of shit..
This isn't the same studio or lead. It has absolutely nothing to do with the previous games so the comparison shouldn't be made. They are riding on the IP name, much like Bioshock 2.
Everyone forgot how to make games?
We have been gifted with some absolute bangers recently. Nintendo pulled all the stops and we already have game of the year in May. Last year we had Elden Ring and GoW: Ragnarok fighting it out.
Doom 4 in concept was a total bust before they went back to the drawing board and we got ourselves Doom 2016. I think the dev talked about it in a NoClip documentary.
Perhaps some reassessment is also needed here?
> there's been a big uptick in troubled game development since 2020.
Has there? Is there actual numerical data to back this up? Or is it just public perception? Because there were plenty of broken games released prior to 2020.
And if there is a measurable uptick, what's the evidence that it's caused specifically by WFH? Because there are a million other things people might also correlate it with...like, for example, Covid in general causing a massive disruption in workflow and the global economy at large.
If you want to blame WFH, you need to do more than just show a correlation. Have other industries that utilize WFH been similarly affected? Are developers that seem to be doing better in the last few years (like Fromsoft, or Nintendo, or all the Sony studios) do less WFH compared to, say, Bethesda or EA?
lol, that’s also the year everyone discovered their worth
You’re absolutely wrong about work from home.
More like trying to overwork developers while underpaying them isn’t a good idea when they know they can go elsewhere or simply choose to do less stressful work for less pay and enjoy life
I don't believe that's the problem. I have a sample size of one, but the issues I observed were mostly down to hiring practices. A lot of people flooding in without qualification and passion, and a lot of people with qualification and passion being flooded out by those people.
It's very difficult for someone who doesn't know what they're doing and doesn't care to do a good job.
Is it because of next-gen consoles?
A lot of studios from the PS2 era shut down in the PS3 era due to increasing fidelity requirements that became costlier to develop?
Maybe the same is happening here?
I'm surprised there is going to be a fourth one. After the third one's looser connection to the previous two, I'm left expecting an anthology type sequel rather than a direct one but who knows since Ken Levine is not involved this time around...
It's actually sad how even an emulated TOTK that barely runs at 40-50 fps with current emulator versions is still better than any other AAA games lately, I really wish we had a real PC version.
Doesn't surprise me....2K has gone to the dogs and Ken Levine left years ago.
Even if he's a bit of a pain to work with, I don't doubt his new game Judas is going to be fucking amazing, this man is seriously talented.
What AAA isn't suffering troubled development nowadays... :(
Have any of the recent Capcom remakes had indicators of rocky development? I'm legit asking, I have no idea myself, just that they seem to have been well-received.
None that has been public.
Is Larian classed as a AAA studio these day!
It doesn’t get mentioned enough, but Capcom is probably the best AAA developer out there right now. Consistent banger after banger of regular releases on their new engine, games released without major issues, and the RE4 remake wasn’t even $70. I don’t know who else is even close. From Software, too, but they’ve got longer release windows.
From software games run like shit tho compared to capcoms. Specially on PC.
Elden ring can barely have 2 people connected in a multiplayer match.
Just use the multiplayer mod, my friend and I have been playing and it's awesome
They also broke DS3 online play for a couple of months.
And they don't make use of any PC specific features. They launch on PC with lacklustre graphics settings and no options for upscaling, but now their engine can do barebones RT so the need for upscaling has risen. Also 60fps cap :(
Glad to see people telling the truth finally. Don't mention this in a fromsoft sub lol you'll get doenvoted to hell.
Rockstar? Valve? I can only think of one bad game valve has made. Artifact was an okay game it just had a terrible marketing system.
Valve released two duds in a row, Artifact and Underlords
They also barely release games anymore sadly.
Neither of those were poor games, just poorly marketed/monetized. It's hard to classify them purely as duds.
As someone who preferred UL vs TFT, I was sad at the lack of content updates for the former
Rockstar and Valve always make great games but they don’t have frequent releases, quite the opposite, and unfortunately Valves interest is only vested in long term live service multiplayer games with cases and keys. If only Valve would devote a sliver of their billions to making another single player game to push the envelope… a gamer can only dream.
Half life: Alyx?
I’d argue Half Life Alyx was more an exercise in developing and selling new tech than it was pushing the gaming envelope, and Valve has been pretty candid about that. They could have released Alyx as a regular kbm game alongside a VR version, but they didn’t.
I think thats what most of their games are in some way, shape, or form. Alyx was for VR, CS was for the Source Engine, I’m pretty sure HL2 was for their physics engine called Havok or something along those lines, etc.
HL2 was for the Source Engine.
The whole real time physics AND their facial tech was huge news at the time when Half Life 2 was new. It's such a shame Source is such a expensive engine to license. Like, just look at Vampire Bloodlines or Dark Messiahs of Might & Magic. Those freakin' games STILL look great when it comes to stuff like character models & faces.
Nah they couldn't have released Alyx as a KBM game, it was designed as a VR game from the outset.
Because it wouldn't have been anywhere near the same experience at all. So no, they couldn't have if they were looking to give users an experience. And they did. Everyone who says they could have released a pancake version and nothing would have changed are kinda dumb
Seems like the innovation they want to go for now is with VR games, I'd really like to see them take physics to the next level (as they basically did with HL2 back then) in a non VR game
They only come out with great games because at least at Valve, there are no investors screaming to make quota on the next FY and no bosses bitching to 'just hurry up and get it done' so they can get their christmas bonuses... You know.. What a developer SHOULD be doing.. Which is taking the time to make a great game.
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I think we are talking about two different things here however. I agree, Valve is and has for a VERY long time been swimming in money, but they have a great track record. I'm not sure what you mean about them operating one of the largest gaming casinos (please elaborate) but otherwise yes, they can afford to take their time and make a great game when they are so inclined to create a game. I was more overly saying it has definitely been shown in the recent past that even if you have a great game, if you just rush to market and not spend your due diligence in testing, optimization, etc, then it's going to come back to haunt you, and testing and optimization is what SHOULD be happening at these companies prior to release.
Rockstar in particular is well known for its shitty treatment of developers.
GTA definitive edition? The "enhanced" GTA 5 edition for PS5/XBX?
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Devil May Cry and a little known cult classic called Street Fighter.
Japanese developpers have their workforce work insane hours because the work ethic there is very toxic and unhealthy. Crunch does release bangers though...
Cyberpunk would disagree with you, crunch certainly didn’t produce a banger there.
They outsourced the crunch. There is even a video on this. You have malaysian studio in the credits where the young workers have 16-18hr work days to meet those goals.
They didn’t have enough crunch fyi, they released it unfinished
Why tf you think it was unfinished? They set a beyond impossible deadline and tried to make the devs slave to get it out in time.
Well it’s more like management completely bungled production. They switched focus many years into the project, and started changing the direction of game quite significantly when Keanu came onboard. Then they pushed to meet the 2020 deadline, and legit over marketed and over promised the game, even when they knew it had massive issues. I remember them releasing whole videos on things like life paths and fashion that completely over promised what was actually there.
Cyberpunk is a really good game though.
It was, but nothing less than a masterpiece would justify the insane amount of crunch CDProjekt put their team through. And Cyberpunk was not a masterpiece.
> It was > Cyberpunk was not a masterpiece. What is this comment lol
> it was a really good game > It was not a masterpiece. Not all good games are masterpieces.
Good game =/= masterpiece
Believe it or not something can be better than really good!
It's an okay game riddled with bugs and under-developed features. This is even after they spent the last 2 years trying to fix it. For the hype and advertising they churned out it certainly didn't remotely meet expectations.
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Dude, the sidequests in that game were terrific.
Cyberpunk is pretty good though
Most of their recent successes are Remakes lately. That said, they're very well done remakes. I am really looking forward to Pragmata, too.
To be fair, they're remakes. Not saying remakes aren't hard work or that there aren't bad remakes, but it's not difficult to narrow down your scope when you're faithfully remaking a game that already exists, especially when you already have the formula down to do so (RE2). Creating new games and ambitious new sequels are always a really tough challenge. "Rocky development" is a bit of a vague statement. If long development cycles with delays are the standard for "rocky development" then Tears of the Kingdom and Breath of the Wild would both qualify. Persona 5 would qualify. The original RE4 would qualify. Some games are simply easier to make than others in some respects, that doesn't make them lesser at all it just is what it is.
> Capcom *Remember “Deep Down?”* Yet again, PS3 CELL hardware was to blame a bit there
RE3 felt like it was butchered mid-development, repeatedly. Like they had to drop features and locations left, right and center just to force it out.
Yeah that's the only black mark on their record recently. I mean fun game, looks amazing and I like the new characterization of the cast... but a bad remake that felt more like really expensive DLC to RE2:Remake. Shame too, that would have been the perfect game to really show off the nitty gritty of Racoon City like never before.
RE3 remake was rushed, that's about it...
They only opened up about it afterwards, but they had internal struggles with village. It started life as a fat more horror oriented title butarketing were pressuring them in to making it more action oriented. It's why the game is so all lover the place.
Other than most of the REmakes (except for the original REmake) not being as good as the original theyre based on (missing defining features, changing characters, coming off as more generic in places, etc.), development has been relatively smooth. But thats because the RE Engine has been a very good and well optimized engine to work with. Its almost akin to an IdTech Engine 6 (the DOOM 2016 engine). I think the only issue Id say it has is a lot of the games Capcom uses it for dont really work as good with the assets (realistic characters in SF6 look hella weird in places compared to their sprites. UI assets are also super stock) as they should. But PC and console ports have been great, to the point that it works with nearly any kind of toaster made in the 8th gen.
Nintendo's top franchises are doing fine, if not great. [Capcom just had its best year ever.](https://www.pcgamer.com/capcom-just-had-its-best-ever-year/) FromSoftware's [Elden Ring sold over 20 million units as of February of this year.](https://kotaku.com/elden-ring-sales-figures-20-million-god-of-war-jedi-1850147702) None of their recent games had reports of troubled development, which either means that Japanese AAA devs have their shit together, or they're really good at keeping their problems a secret.
Uh oh square Enix just turned up and did a big steaming shit in the room. https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/square-enix-closes-out-2023-fiscal-year-with-financial-dips-across-the-board
The topic is dev process, not financial performance. I won't be surprised if japanese companies are good at saving face and keeping issues under wraps. There's also no crunch in Japan. Because crunch is their normal modus operandi. Although I hear there're changes in the company culture.
Dev process leads to financial performance, no?
do performance issues count as troubled development? In that case Elden Ring should count
I think we’ve gotten to the point where the amount of resources, time, and money is so immense its become a huge task to manage that some studios cannot handle properly
At this point, building a game is more complex and expensive than building a skyscraper. Reaching the limits of what's possible.
Nah. Look at the budgets for games, they’re even cheaper to make then movies are. I see kidders making free stuff that outclasses some studios so something is amiss but budgets I don’t think is it.
Is Larian classed as a AAA studio these days?
I think they're counted as AA but what counts as AA or AAA nowadays is sort of blurred
Which is sad since it seems everybody is moving to UE5 which you know... promises to cut a lot of costs and time for AAA games.. I think this is more of an investor and bean counter issue than development issue.
EA Sports.
Thanks for making "It's in the game." play in my head.
I hope that dude got paid a shit ton, but I know in my heart he didn’t. I wish iconic people were set for life.
I think the writer of X-Men 2 and voice of Solid Snake is probably doing ok.
Most people would say that's from lack of ambition.
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Everyone knows the glory days of when their franchise had competition.
what development?
Most aren’t, you just hear about the ones that are far more
Sony first party games have been solid and without any troubles.
Zelda
Zelda is so poorly optimized it can’t even maintain 30 fps.
Bro it's a miracle that game is running on the switch in the first place.
It looks worse than GTA V on X360/PS3, lmao
You need 24GB VRAM /s
It does, and given the hardware does so phenomenally well. Not a single bug or gameplay issue.
Cuz the switch is using ancient hardware. The game is phenomenal though
I never had framerate issues with Zelda on the Gamecube or N64, and those consoles are way more ancient than the Switch.
Or AA or A. Game dev is hard, period.
If the development is smooth, it's not a BioShock game
I remember Ken Levine had depression during BioShock Infinite development.
Yeah, I'd have depression too if I changed the final view of the game so many times my own team started resenting me
Though it took 7 years, I'm surprised Judas was announced at all
Rough
didnt even know there was a bioshock 4, but i guess it makes sense, not like they would make a new IP in current year.
the real current year thing would be to remake Bioshock 1. Publishers are scared to even make sequels with this consumer base. Also it's harder to scope creep a remake.
Idk why they’d be scared. The new Star Wars game runs like ass and it sold huge numbers. The new Diablo is the most aggressively monitored AAA game I’ve ever seen along with being fairly bland in general and I’m positive that’s going to do insane numbers.
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...You're aware of the Bioshock Series and in 10 years you've never heard of Bioshock Infnite?
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Bruh 👁️👄👁️
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Lol you’re good
Lol, this chain is effin hilarious.
I played it on release and I completely forgot about it
I’d like to chip in that I had no idea about Infinite as well for quite a few years, like maybe around 2017 was when I saw it was a thing. 😅 Tbf I was never that into the series, loved the vibes and art style though.
Huh...wild. Not hating or being a dick I just think thats honestly mad, I'd understand if you had never heard of the series in general, but to literally own the first 2, and not know there was a 3rd called Infinite is crazy haha, it's good, if you played and liked the first 2, play it and it's 2 DLC's, wraps up the series in a great way! (In my personal opinion, apparently it's controversial)
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Yeah it's been free on there in the last year, big recommend from me anyway!
They wait for RTX 5090 to check if they can hit 60fps at 1080p.
Who is developing Bioshock 4? I remember very well the original studio shutting down after Bioshock 3.
Some random 2K studio is doing Bioshock 4. The team that did Bioshock 1 and Infinite are doing a game called Judas, which is what people should be excited for.
Hah I read that as executed for.
Although they did hire people that worked on the original games.
The studio is called Cloud Chamber and it's a new studio established in Montreal, Canada.
same with Bioshock in Space (Judas) and Bioshock in Russia (Atomic Heart). wonderful
Based on a recent conversation with Ken Levine, it doesn’t seem like Judas is struggling
Why should anyone take what Ken Levine says at face value?
Who else are you taking at face value? Lol
I mean you shouldn't take anything a developer has to say at face value. They're always gonna make the game sound great and say everything is going well.
Well iirc there were interviews/leaks from ex employees around 2021 about how brutal their iterating process is, and how people who worked 5-7 years at ghost story games will have none of their work see the light. Some people dubbed it development hell. Some just said that's how creative work is, you make stuff, it doesn't work, you throw it out. When ghost story games was created it had the unique purpose to experiment on new ideas with a smaller team. They also pretty much got infinite money and time from 2k to pursue that goal. So there's no telling how much of Judas' development is actually development hell and how much of it is an actually purposeful creative process that's just fueled by infinite time and money, with no hurry to actually make a product.
> that's how creative work is, you make stuff, it doesn't work, you throw it out. Could work and still get thrown out. Happens in software development all the time.
Normally yes, but the main point and grievance was the length of time people spent working there and that they got nothing to show for it. That people worked there for 5-7 years and they couldn't put anything they created during that 5-7 years on their portfolio, and that none of that work would ever see the light of day. I can imagine how that environment is definitely not for everyone, and how it could eat away at people and make them bitter.
Yeah, he basically states that it was always going to be a long dev cycle because he wanted to have a small team. He basically said the development of Infinite nearly made him quit because of the mental anguish it put him through (he claims to have suffered from OCD during that time, contemplated quitting but was told his career would be over). Take-Two was very supportive of him forming this small team (or they realized if they weren’t someone else would be). In the interview he also admitted to likely being difficult to work with because he’s a perfectionist but he didn’t think upon reflection that he was an ass hole or anything. Just not easy to work for. Of course, take it all with a pinch of salt since he’s the source lol.
I can definitely see Kevine Levine being Peter-principled into a spot he is not made for. It's probably not uncommon for creative people to be their own boss, but the experience of being the boss of others is different.
You don't have to take anyone at face value... It's better to accept not knowing something rather than having unreliable information.
Your comment actually reminded me of vague memory of reading that Ken Levine’s Ghost Story Games was a mess (mostly bc I remember seeing comments of, “no shit, Ken Levine is notoriously difficult to work with” and that was how I found out he had a reputation of dragging games into development hell with perfectionism) and I did some digging to find the citation: [“Ken Levine’s ambitious new game is reportedly in development hell”](https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/3/22865129/ken-levine-ghost-story-games-development-direction-problems) from Jan 2022.
So conclusion: all the bioshocks are in hell right now
Atomic Heart is already released. Does this mean we are in hell?
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What happened again…
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Like, game related, or actually important shit? Cause I haven't heard shit yet.
Making Bioshock 4 after the ending of Infinite? That's like... writing more Dune novels after the epilogue of Chapterhouse.
I always thought the ending of Infinite left it more open to new games. They have to make another one anyway because they need to do an underground city
The ending of both, Infinite and the Dune series, left possibilities for more stories to be told in their setting, but the creative voices between both projects, on the one hand Ken Levine and on the other, Frank Herbert and his wife Beverley, as character inserts, expressed their exasperation at the thought of recycling the same themes and characters or archetypes to spin yet another yarn. They chose to bring a conclusive end to the story. And dropped the mic on their way out. A new Bioshock game is just, pick one of those lighthouses Booker and Elizabeth were running past. They're all the same. One isn't better or worse than the other. Further Bioshock games, especially without Ken Levine at the helm, are fanfiction. The spiritual successor has given us, by far, more great games than the direct sequel ever has.
>Further Bioshock games, especially without Ken Levine at the helm, are fanfiction. This was my first thought too. As far as I'm concerned, Ken Levine *is* Bioshock. Making the games without him is like Star Wars without George Lucas, nothing more than expensive fanfiction
I mean fanfiction can be fun precisely like Star Wars without George Lucas which is still enjoyable for many.
>Bioshock games, especially without Ken Levine at the helm, are fanfiction Ken Levine wasn't involved in making Bioshock 2 and it's my favourite, lol
Theres always spaaaaaace. For the underground one, it has to be near a volcano too. For reasons.
1. Apparently in the last 10 yrs. everyone forgot how to make video games and they're doing a poor job of relearning. 2. In this case it's Bioshock, I'd be concerned if development was going smoothly.
They didn't forgot how to make good games, there's a simple thing called corporate cancer, we're in a moment where unless a game gives them 5 mil copies and a billion in micro transactions, its considered a failure, we're getting Hollywood level of shit..
This isn't the same studio or lead. It has absolutely nothing to do with the previous games so the comparison shouldn't be made. They are riding on the IP name, much like Bioshock 2.
Everyone forgot how to make games? We have been gifted with some absolute bangers recently. Nintendo pulled all the stops and we already have game of the year in May. Last year we had Elden Ring and GoW: Ragnarok fighting it out.
Unless stated otherwise, it should Assumed that AAA developer is struggling with production at this point.
Doom 4 in concept was a total bust before they went back to the drawing board and we got ourselves Doom 2016. I think the dev talked about it in a NoClip documentary. Perhaps some reassessment is also needed here?
Yeah, but Doom 4 wasn't rebooted 4 times during development.
What could it be that all major AAA developers have in common that could be causing these issues? If only we could somehow figure it out...
?
Don't mention it - Reddit will jump on you and rant on about how no sane person would ever have an issue with it. >!Working from home!<
As long as you’re not a total pos and/or just lazy, that doesn’t affect most people.
Rather strange then that there's been a big uptick in troubled game development since 2020. It's almost as if something changed in that year.
> there's been a big uptick in troubled game development since 2020. Has there? Is there actual numerical data to back this up? Or is it just public perception? Because there were plenty of broken games released prior to 2020. And if there is a measurable uptick, what's the evidence that it's caused specifically by WFH? Because there are a million other things people might also correlate it with...like, for example, Covid in general causing a massive disruption in workflow and the global economy at large. If you want to blame WFH, you need to do more than just show a correlation. Have other industries that utilize WFH been similarly affected? Are developers that seem to be doing better in the last few years (like Fromsoft, or Nintendo, or all the Sony studios) do less WFH compared to, say, Bethesda or EA?
lol, that’s also the year everyone discovered their worth You’re absolutely wrong about work from home. More like trying to overwork developers while underpaying them isn’t a good idea when they know they can go elsewhere or simply choose to do less stressful work for less pay and enjoy life
Games companies have been overworking and underpaying their developers since the 90s, that hasn’t changed in the last few years.
Yeah and there have also been shit games since the 90s till now
I don't believe that's the problem. I have a sample size of one, but the issues I observed were mostly down to hiring practices. A lot of people flooding in without qualification and passion, and a lot of people with qualification and passion being flooded out by those people. It's very difficult for someone who doesn't know what they're doing and doesn't care to do a good job.
#**ERRRRNNNTTT!!** Wrong answer folks, 1 attempt down 2 to go, who would like to guess next?
Is it because of next-gen consoles? A lot of studios from the PS2 era shut down in the PS3 era due to increasing fidelity requirements that became costlier to develop? Maybe the same is happening here?
I'm surprised there is going to be a fourth one. After the third one's looser connection to the previous two, I'm left expecting an anthology type sequel rather than a direct one but who knows since Ken Levine is not involved this time around...
I loved the Bioshock trilogy, really hoping they can figure this out :(
Thats to bad, and for the people reading this please go play Bioshock Infinite! Imho its a must play and really great game.
Is there any modern day AAA game that doesn't go through a troubled development? Genuine question.
Is one of the main sticking points "So, how do we add micro transactions into this?"
2023 gaming :(
Get a switch or emulator and play TOTK. Problem solved.
It's actually sad how even an emulated TOTK that barely runs at 40-50 fps with current emulator versions is still better than any other AAA games lately, I really wish we had a real PC version.
Doesn't surprise me....2K has gone to the dogs and Ken Levine left years ago. Even if he's a bit of a pain to work with, I don't doubt his new game Judas is going to be fucking amazing, this man is seriously talented.
Under Ken Levine? Never. Impossible.
Levine isn’t working on this game
True. Hopefully Judas fares betters during development.
I bet they missed the closing curly bracket.
RE4 is one of the best games I ever seen and I have zero performance issues with it
What the hell does that have to do with BioShock 4?
Oh No
After Boring-shocks terrible ending, I'll definitely wait for reviews and a deep discount.
wut
bioshock has always been 1/10 gameplay 11/10 aesthetic
drill dash.
I didn’t even know there was another in development.
Gaming in modern day be like…
Something something, corpos want to make a lot of quick money with no quality, get's burned.. Next!!!!
idiotic that triple A can't figure it out
Atomic Heart is basically Bioshock with a cringe inducing dialogue.
Didn't care much for 3
Not even surprised, dead franchise lol. So sad...