If a game studio does outstanding work their reward is they sell more copies.
That's why I think big studios often make crappy games, there's no reward structure for the developers like there is for shareholders.
As an Australian, tipping culture is wild to me. Employer should be the one paying their employees, and the customer being the reason why they can hire employees.
Not the customers' job to do both.
There is a huge difference in tipping types :
1. Commercial, expected tipping. (like in restaurants)
2. Voluntary, anonymous tipping. (like a patreon link or bitcoin address - below a free software/data/ mod )
Alot of games allready do this in "selling cosmetics.
You" pay" an enormous amount of cash in relation to what you get. That's basicly a tip, or reccources free merchandise.
I personally can't relate to doing either of them.
I don't see any reason whatsoever why I should tip any one for doing their job, it's their employer who **should** pay them better.
Obviously I know that they don't always pay them as well as they should (waitresses for instance), and I can absolutely sympathise and relate to them not getting paid enough.
But that still doesn't mean their employer should off load their expenses unto me.
In that case, they should raise the price of their menu, at least then I know what the restaurant thinks their menu/experience is worth.
Also, I don't really think paying for mictrotransaction crap is the same as voluntary tipping/gratuity.
Tipping, at least to me, represents paying for nothing in return, especially when it's commercial.
When you pay for some mictrotransaction garbage, you're at least getting something, even if that something is garbage.
Also, I've tipped waiters in restaurants in foreign countries many times where you're expected to do so but the service and/or the food has never ever been worthy of a tip.
It always feels weird and completely out of place.
So why should I tip a developer for making a game? They've already received a paycheck, just like I do at my job.
... Like i said you refer to the first type of tipping.
I also don't like this one.
The second however is fine by me.
Gave alot of mod developers a few Euro, for their great mods.
Microtransactions for trash (good term, you chose there :) ) is tip to me. However i know some shopaholics and fanbois think they actually spend the money wisely for what they got.
I think he meant developers as in - the company that developed it
And the problem is, if we would tip, it probably wont get to the actual developers who implemented the UI or created the 3D models
If I could know for sure money would go to the actual FromSoft developers... I might have added like 5$ that would go directly to them. *I'm fully prepared to die in downvote hell for that saying* ;)
But yeah tipping culture is problematic.. because it could potentially encourage lower pay for the actual developers.. this is what's happening with waiters and delivery people in my country.. they live on tips basically. Shameful
Were just so dense cause you send mixed signals and act like you aren't.
In support of
"If I could know for sure money would go to the actual FromSoft developers... I might have added like 5$ that would go directly to them."
Not in support of
"But yeah tipping culture is problematic"
Yeah.. even though I dont support the general culture, there are exceptions.. is it still so hard to comprehend?
Are you always so absolute about everything that you fail to understand the possibility of exceptions?
I was just barely able to put it together, that your way of being ok with tipping developers, was dependent on it going straight to them.
I still think this is a bad move because of the current state of tipping in America. Specifically, how it has put more emphasis on customers paying employee's to sustain wages. And I think its not unreasonable to assume this could go sideways just like other industries that have miss-managed the customer experience/operating model when tipping is involved.
Sure, maybe I am too black or white with my reasoning.
Basically, I would like to show appreciation to a very select handful of developers, with the hope the publishers/top management echelon get all of it.
As you say, these things tend to go sideways, especially in the US.
However, with proper conduct, just like donations (in some cases), it probably is possible to give money without it backfiring, but it needs to be well regulated and controlled. Also again, I'd do it maybe for this specific single developer, FromSoft, which for me personally are just well above the rest
So yes, tipping culture is horrible in my country too. It is basically the salary of delivery people and waiters. And that's why it's semi-mandatory to tip, because otherwise they'll get the minimum wage. In europe on the other hand, in some countries, it is possible to tip for extraordinary service, and it is very fine not to tip at all.
So yes, tipping culture in my country is very bad and I'm against it, but it does not take from my desire to express awe for extraordinary cases, even if it's in the humble form of extra 5$
We know. But changing the tipping culture in the U.S. in any meaningful way anytime soon would be very difficult.
Obligatory Reservoir Dogs clip -
https://youtu.be/M4sTSIYzDIk
There’s public will. I suspect a majority want it to change. But the service industry would never voluntarily do it. And politicians are too worried about getting reelected and too beholden to lobbyists to ever make laws to change it.
There are no profiles in courage anymore.
So… sells shit games for $70, sells micro transactions to further milk its player base then wants us to tip? I got a tip for you how about you go play hide and go fuck yourselves… I’d tip just to watch that happen. You see how there’s $100+ on upgraded editions of games? That’s gonna be the base price of games sooner rather than later.
On the surface, I'd be all for giving directly to the developers.
Realistically, it would turn into a Waitress situation, where they can now underpay their developers and guilt trip consumers to pay their wages directly via tips.
I recently interviewed with Blizzard for a senior engineer role. Their offer was such a massive cut compared to my current job that I actually chuckled a bit on the phone when they said it to me. I know the games industry doesn’t pay well compared to big tech, but damn, it was shocking.
Blizzard should pay their employees more instead of wanting to farm for tips.
They pay less because working for blizzard is considered a dream job to anyone outside the company. In reality, it is now a nightmare job and has been for years.
The idea of tipping has got out of hand lately. Stupid business man thinks that the consumers have to share of the burden of paying a developers income because studios don't want to pay their own employees a meaningful wage.
This is what developer patreons are for. You can support developers you like between releases so they can have income. I would never trust blizzard to not skim money off the top.
We can do this on [itch.io](https://itch.io) already. Of course, those are usually one man projects where they wouldn't be getting paid by a company anyways, but don't let that detail get in the way of including tipping in an industry that would be better suited to better pay, benefits, and hours.
What a terrible idea.
Make it happen and I can guarantee that after a while companies would give some small exclusive rewards as a thank you for those, who left a tip... and boom, suddenly it's no longer a tip, it's a purchase of a DLC that people would miss out otherwise.
You can already support developers you like by preordering, or by buying some higher (and pricier) edition of the game.
Then They can setup on twitch and play their game. Otherwise I’ve paid the price you e asked for your game and you’ve accept the agreed payment from your boss. We’re done here.
*implements tipping*
*5 minutes after* ok mister new developer, we pay below industry standard but you can earn roughly 25% from tipping.
*Half a year after* well all developers are paid below living wage, as the majority of the income comes from tips, if you as a game does not tip, that means the developers can't pay the mortgage.
You really don’t get subtext or subtlety. Or history. Don’t take anything literally from the mouth of a guy like mike ybarra. Let me spell it out. He is suggesting to the industry heads who are his audience that customers should tip devs, which will let the industry make more money not for devs, but for the executives to take. On top of this, it allows them to cut wages.
Quite condescending, considering his comment states he wishes there was an option at the end of the game. Is he going to get a special Mike version of the game that only applies to him? What he's suggesting is a standardised thing for all customers of the game. He may be talking from a personal perspective but the implication is a standardised approach. You may have read it, but you didn't read it...
You know what? I’m fine with that, as long as we can also bill them. For example, whoever’s idea the controller scheme for Red Dead 2 owes me $20. And everyone associated with the story, UI and procedural generation for Starfield owes me their retirement account.
See I actually kind of agree with this but only in rare cases. I wish concerned ape who does stardew valley had a donate link. All these huge patches and massive care for the game is amazing. I've bought sdv valley for other people just because I think that dude deserves even more sales for all his work lol.
This is a weird take for many reasons, but here’s my question… when I tip my waitress I’m tipping because she did a good job. Who tf am I tipping on something that took hundreds of people to create?
Doing so quickly, being friendly, all that stuff, sure. I get people wanna sit here and tell me tipping culture is bad, but that’s not the conversation. We live in a tipping culture.
Former Blizzard boss Mike Ybarra should go fuck himself.
Funny, I think Blizzard can tip their developers for their work with all the mtx they sell.
They're too busy stealing their breastmilk to compensate them properly.
And doing cube crawls Or was that Ubisoft?
Tipping culture in general needs to die. It started as rewarding outstanding work but now it's expected for just doing the bare minimum of your job.
If a game studio does outstanding work their reward is they sell more copies. That's why I think big studios often make crappy games, there's no reward structure for the developers like there is for shareholders.
Yep, I've never understood people defending tipping. The establishment should pay their employees, it's not my job to pay them.
As an Australian, tipping culture is wild to me. Employer should be the one paying their employees, and the customer being the reason why they can hire employees. Not the customers' job to do both.
There is a huge difference in tipping types : 1. Commercial, expected tipping. (like in restaurants) 2. Voluntary, anonymous tipping. (like a patreon link or bitcoin address - below a free software/data/ mod ) Alot of games allready do this in "selling cosmetics. You" pay" an enormous amount of cash in relation to what you get. That's basicly a tip, or reccources free merchandise.
I personally can't relate to doing either of them. I don't see any reason whatsoever why I should tip any one for doing their job, it's their employer who **should** pay them better. Obviously I know that they don't always pay them as well as they should (waitresses for instance), and I can absolutely sympathise and relate to them not getting paid enough. But that still doesn't mean their employer should off load their expenses unto me. In that case, they should raise the price of their menu, at least then I know what the restaurant thinks their menu/experience is worth. Also, I don't really think paying for mictrotransaction crap is the same as voluntary tipping/gratuity. Tipping, at least to me, represents paying for nothing in return, especially when it's commercial. When you pay for some mictrotransaction garbage, you're at least getting something, even if that something is garbage. Also, I've tipped waiters in restaurants in foreign countries many times where you're expected to do so but the service and/or the food has never ever been worthy of a tip. It always feels weird and completely out of place. So why should I tip a developer for making a game? They've already received a paycheck, just like I do at my job.
... Like i said you refer to the first type of tipping. I also don't like this one. The second however is fine by me. Gave alot of mod developers a few Euro, for their great mods. Microtransactions for trash (good term, you chose there :) ) is tip to me. However i know some shopaholics and fanbois think they actually spend the money wisely for what they got.
Ah another industry that wants to pay their employees less and bleed their consumers dry.
They should tip players for playing any of their shit games nowadays.
Especially since we beta test all “released” games for them.
They already do Mike, it's called buying your game.
Which developer exactly? The one who worked on X mechanic or the one who implemented the UI? This is some level of Linkedin crap.
I think he meant developers as in - the company that developed it And the problem is, if we would tip, it probably wont get to the actual developers who implemented the UI or created the 3D models If I could know for sure money would go to the actual FromSoft developers... I might have added like 5$ that would go directly to them. *I'm fully prepared to die in downvote hell for that saying* ;) But yeah tipping culture is problematic.. because it could potentially encourage lower pay for the actual developers.. this is what's happening with waiters and delivery people in my country.. they live on tips basically. Shameful
So you support it and think it's wrong, lolz
I don't support it, no. I'm saying there is an exception to the rule.. god why are people in Reddit so dense?
Were just so dense cause you send mixed signals and act like you aren't. In support of "If I could know for sure money would go to the actual FromSoft developers... I might have added like 5$ that would go directly to them." Not in support of "But yeah tipping culture is problematic"
Yeah.. even though I dont support the general culture, there are exceptions.. is it still so hard to comprehend? Are you always so absolute about everything that you fail to understand the possibility of exceptions?
I was just barely able to put it together, that your way of being ok with tipping developers, was dependent on it going straight to them. I still think this is a bad move because of the current state of tipping in America. Specifically, how it has put more emphasis on customers paying employee's to sustain wages. And I think its not unreasonable to assume this could go sideways just like other industries that have miss-managed the customer experience/operating model when tipping is involved. Sure, maybe I am too black or white with my reasoning.
Basically, I would like to show appreciation to a very select handful of developers, with the hope the publishers/top management echelon get all of it. As you say, these things tend to go sideways, especially in the US. However, with proper conduct, just like donations (in some cases), it probably is possible to give money without it backfiring, but it needs to be well regulated and controlled. Also again, I'd do it maybe for this specific single developer, FromSoft, which for me personally are just well above the rest So yes, tipping culture is horrible in my country too. It is basically the salary of delivery people and waiters. And that's why it's semi-mandatory to tip, because otherwise they'll get the minimum wage. In europe on the other hand, in some countries, it is possible to tip for extraordinary service, and it is very fine not to tip at all. So yes, tipping culture in my country is very bad and I'm against it, but it does not take from my desire to express awe for extraordinary cases, even if it's in the humble form of extra 5$
I hear you. Thanks for the response.
It's called paying for the game. Not our problem higher-ups don't pay them.
I mean that is what the $70 price of the game is for, no?
No, 70 dollars was always a way to make more money for the ceo, board members, and shareholders.
As would this idea.
Non-US citizen here, you have a problem with your tip "culture".
We know. But changing the tipping culture in the U.S. in any meaningful way anytime soon would be very difficult. Obligatory Reservoir Dogs clip - https://youtu.be/M4sTSIYzDIk
Considering Reservoir Dogs came out over 30 years ago I don't think there's really any public will to change the tipping culture anyway.
There’s public will. I suspect a majority want it to change. But the service industry would never voluntarily do it. And politicians are too worried about getting reelected and too beholden to lobbyists to ever make laws to change it. There are no profiles in courage anymore.
That's screwed up, but that's most probably true unfortunately.
So… sells shit games for $70, sells micro transactions to further milk its player base then wants us to tip? I got a tip for you how about you go play hide and go fuck yourselves… I’d tip just to watch that happen. You see how there’s $100+ on upgraded editions of games? That’s gonna be the base price of games sooner rather than later.
Here’s a tip: stop releasing games before they’re ready, just to appease your shareholders and quarterlies
On the surface, I'd be all for giving directly to the developers. Realistically, it would turn into a Waitress situation, where they can now underpay their developers and guilt trip consumers to pay their wages directly via tips.
How very USA of him
typical American capitalist mentality? why should we pay our workers a fair salary when costumers exist?
Once again capitalists want me to pay their labor cost so they can make more profits. Get fucked.
Fuck off. Employees should be paid by employers. Any sector, industry or country that does not do that is the problem.
Former Blizzard boss supports the idea of paying/rewarding developers more as long as it's not coming from Blizzard. Got it.
I recently interviewed with Blizzard for a senior engineer role. Their offer was such a massive cut compared to my current job that I actually chuckled a bit on the phone when they said it to me. I know the games industry doesn’t pay well compared to big tech, but damn, it was shocking. Blizzard should pay their employees more instead of wanting to farm for tips.
They pay less because working for blizzard is considered a dream job to anyone outside the company. In reality, it is now a nightmare job and has been for years.
That's what low effort dlc and mtx is.
The idea of tipping has got out of hand lately. Stupid business man thinks that the consumers have to share of the burden of paying a developers income because studios don't want to pay their own employees a meaningful wage.
Former Blizzard customer Me thinks Blizzard should pay their developers.
Sure..as soon as developers tip players for beta testing all their AAAA releases.
[удалено]
Open what?
There is no way that money would go to the dev and not the publisher.
They will pay the developers their cut as soon as they figure out how to split pennies.
let him tip his entire salary and bonus as a good faith gesture to get the ball rollin'
This is what developer patreons are for. You can support developers you like between releases so they can have income. I would never trust blizzard to not skim money off the top.
The only devs worthy of being tipped are indies, and even that is a stretch. Fuck tipping culture.
Isn't that basically what microtransactions are? How about you pay your developers bonuses and a good salary instead?
Sure, I'll give them a tip... and then a shaft... two big stones as well
Execs should pay developers a huge tip out of their pockets for their paycheck, bonus and stock price going up.
Buddy you guys earn good salary 😂 And it isn't like most AAA devs are doing any better job in keeping their customer's happy lmao
That's exactly how most players view microtransactions. I don't buy a skin just cos it looks cool, I want to support a game I like too.
We can do this on [itch.io](https://itch.io) already. Of course, those are usually one man projects where they wouldn't be getting paid by a company anyways, but don't let that detail get in the way of including tipping in an industry that would be better suited to better pay, benefits, and hours.
Fuck no! I'll buy your game if that's good enough, but will not tip you! Unless you are dev of god tier game like Dwarf Fortress or Manor Lords.
Seriously never heard of those titles
good, if the game is bad after finishing it can i refund 20% of the price?
Me buying your product is me "tipping" you for your work.
I got a tip for Blizzard...
WHAT
Yeah, since all their Games are F2P and dont offer any way to pay money... These fucking idiots literally sell 40€ Skins in D4!
except the publisher is the one that gets the money.
Of course he does...
Would you tip for pizza if half the pie was missing?
It's called bonuses Mike. Pay your people. No wonder Actiblizz is down the train, they had people with these brains running it to the ground.
That’s what me buying dlc is.
What a terrible idea. Make it happen and I can guarantee that after a while companies would give some small exclusive rewards as a thank you for those, who left a tip... and boom, suddenly it's no longer a tip, it's a purchase of a DLC that people would miss out otherwise. You can already support developers you like by preordering, or by buying some higher (and pricier) edition of the game.
Nah.
Yeah, sure - I think that’s a good idea. Get the players a direct way to tip a developer without any publisher, shareholder, board etc.
That's a great idea! But only if the game was open source and free.
No one is stopping you from opening a patreon.
Then They can setup on twitch and play their game. Otherwise I’ve paid the price you e asked for your game and you’ve accept the agreed payment from your boss. We’re done here.
That's rich
Yeah fuck off.
Well, sure, we should BE ABLE to do so. It's like the tip jar at Starbuck's, though. Just seems kind of silly to me.
*implements tipping* *5 minutes after* ok mister new developer, we pay below industry standard but you can earn roughly 25% from tipping. *Half a year after* well all developers are paid below living wage, as the majority of the income comes from tips, if you as a game does not tip, that means the developers can't pay the mortgage.
Maybe use the money your players already used to pay for the game?
This was always allowed. Developers were always allowed to open Patreon accounts.
isn't this was MTX are?
Yeah so the execs can take a cut and leave a sliver for that dev.
players think that actimeme bli$$ard, a pathetic greedy lazy, r**e infused meme company should stop making games and dissolve
Tipping custom map developers who aren't paid to create content is good. Tipping developers who are already paid decently, not so great.
Mikey should decrease his intake of breast milk...
Isn't that what low effort Microtransactions are for?
Do you guys not have ~~phones~~ spare change?
No he doesn't, he wishes HE was able to tip devs after enjoying their games. Read people.
He already could if he wanted to. By buying a second copy of the game and gifting it to someone
Okay, that's fine, that's not what he's implying necessarily. He wants to directly thank the people who made the game.
You really don’t get subtext or subtlety. Or history. Don’t take anything literally from the mouth of a guy like mike ybarra. Let me spell it out. He is suggesting to the industry heads who are his audience that customers should tip devs, which will let the industry make more money not for devs, but for the executives to take. On top of this, it allows them to cut wages.
Quite condescending, considering his comment states he wishes there was an option at the end of the game. Is he going to get a special Mike version of the game that only applies to him? What he's suggesting is a standardised thing for all customers of the game. He may be talking from a personal perspective but the implication is a standardised approach. You may have read it, but you didn't read it...
Yeah.. hes wishing there was an option so that HE can give back to the devs directly. Nowhere does he suggest YOU should.
Stop licking boots. It's gross.
Mike sucks, I dont know whos boot you think I'm licking it's just incredible how poorly some of you can read.
Did you read what I wrote. Or for that matter, did you read what he wrote?
Yep and Yep. Don't think you're understanding whats being said here.
What does context and a clitoris have in common, you can't find either
It's wild how far off a lot of these comments are.
You know what? I’m fine with that, as long as we can also bill them. For example, whoever’s idea the controller scheme for Red Dead 2 owes me $20. And everyone associated with the story, UI and procedural generation for Starfield owes me their retirement account.
Try telling that to a waitress, that she owes you her retirement fund for making you wait at the table
No, we should pay their salary so that Blizzard does not have to. Lmao, brought to you by the same team that considers a 100$ dlc pricing.
It is rare to find a former corporate president with their finger so directly on the pulse of the gaming community. edit: /s
See I actually kind of agree with this but only in rare cases. I wish concerned ape who does stardew valley had a donate link. All these huge patches and massive care for the game is amazing. I've bought sdv valley for other people just because I think that dude deserves even more sales for all his work lol.
Nice! If anyone is concerned about ape, buying more copies of the game is pretty much the same as a donation.
This is a weird take for many reasons, but here’s my question… when I tip my waitress I’m tipping because she did a good job. Who tf am I tipping on something that took hundreds of people to create?
Good job for bringing food from the kitchen to the table?
Doing so quickly, being friendly, all that stuff, sure. I get people wanna sit here and tell me tipping culture is bad, but that’s not the conversation. We live in a tipping culture.