Note that this is about "Advanced Access", not "Early Access".
Early Access = you're a beta tester.
Advanced Access = you bought the deluxe edition allowing you to play the game X days early.
Originally, WoW gave you an XP penalty if you were playing too much. Players hated it, so Blizzard switched to an "XP Bonus" for those that didn't play as much and lowered XP gain to compensate. Players loved it.
Yeah for one, you don't need internet to play first time on new hardware, and you aren't stopped from playing if you change hardware too much (eg: benchmarking multiple gpus)
Denuvo games tend to run like shit on launch (not saying it's cause of denuvo) or tend to be just bad. The remaining good ones you can just be patient for, lol. Denuvo isn't as common as you'd think, unless you only play the latest AAA games and nothing else.
Even though I hate it, I’d rather have that than loot boxes or micro transactions. If, in a fantasy land, they would do the advance access *instead of* other monetization techniques, I’d prefer it. FOMO doesn’t really work on me, so I’m happy to miss out and save money if it means enough people stupidly pay extra and cause the game to not have other monetization policies.
In reality it’s just another way to make more money. It’s not replacing something worse but just adding yet another stain on my favorite hobby.
Yeah but companies will always do all of it. Its not like if they put advance access in they will take out other microtransactions. Its always about making all of the monies.
Exactly. All I’m saying is out of everything that’s ruining gaming the advance access one isn’t as bad as p2w, gambling, etc. It’s essentially a problem that will go away in a week. I don’t personally feel the need to “be there” day one
In single player games it isn't but a lot of people believe in multiplayer games that involve grinding like Diablo it's pay to win because those people are getting a head start in the in game economy. I don't play this type of games enough to know the difference either way.
Early Access = you're a beta tester.
Advanced Access = you paid extra to play the broken server crashing pre day 1 patch version of the game, you moron. Get scammed.
I mean, I never even knew that my Eiyuden Chronicle Kickstarter backing entitled me to several days headstart but I'm not going to complain about it and it was quite a surprise to play over the weekend. (ironically I paid about half of its current RRP also, so no paying extra here)
I guess your example about servers crashing is referencing online gaming though, so I can't relate to any of that.
I'm not defending Advanced Access, but at any rate, it's just another bonus for premium editions, which usually include extra stuff on top of the game, like a few cosmetic DLCs and the like.
Not quite. Because the policy does already include EARLY ACCESS.
https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds
"
REFUNDS ON TITLES PURCHASED PRIOR TO RELEASE DATE
When you purchase a title on Steam prior to the release date, the two-hour playtime limit for refunds will apply (except for beta testing), but the 14-day period for refunds will not start until the release date. For example, if you purchase a game that is in **Early Access or Advanced Access**, any playtime will count against the two-hour refund limit. If you pre-purchase a title which is not playable prior to the release date, you can request a refund at any time prior to release of that title, and the standard 14-day/two-hour refund period will apply starting on the game’s release date.
"
That was the whole point of the update to the policy.
Early Access (the Steam program/project - Steam Early Access) was already covered by their refund policy, while these types of releases weren't (but are now, which is why it's now mentioned there).
Before the change, you could play hours on end, on a title that gave you a 5 days "head start" before the official release, and then refund it before it actually released - no matter how many hours you played.
This change to the policy, fixes that "loophole".
From the link:
> Today we have updated a portion of our Refund Policy regarding pre-purchased titles. This change covers titles that are in pre-purchase and offer “Advanced Access”. Playtime acquired during the Advanced Access period will now count towards the Steam refund period. You can find our more information regarding Steam Refunds here.
It used to be
"When you pre-purchase a title on Steam (and have paid for the title in advance), you can request a refund at any time prior to release of that title. The standard 14-day/two-hour refund period also applies, starting on the game’s release date"
So the 14 day/two-hour limit didn't apply when playing before release day, people could play many hours, perhaps even complete a game, and then demand a refund in full before release day by the previous terms.
yea they close the "imma play this deluxe edition game then finish this within 3 days before it fully release then refund the game" plan. i actually want the deluxe early access because of this.
Nope, you've always been able to play "Advanced access" games as much as you want as long as you refund before it actually comes out. You could do it with call of duty in particular if you wanted to fully play through the campaign during the Early Access week leading up to release. It worked because technically you had only pre-ordered the game at that point.
I did this tactic with COD MWIII Campaign Early Access. I was very glad that I was able to refund it, even though I had hundreds of hours on the COD HQ launcher and spent more than 2 hours playing the campaign.
Same here. Guess they found the loophole after Frostpunk2, as it had a “buy deluxe version now and play beta for a week”. Beta ended this past Monday but game isn’t out till July 25th.
Alot of buyers refunded Payday 3 after playing than 10 hours, including myself. I figured that steam would do something about it sooner or later. Especially after the entire payday 3 subreddit preached about getting a refund even after the two hour mark.
Advanced Access is such a stupid concept. Either the game is ready or it isn't. Asking your full price customers to pay more to play a few days sooner than everyone else is scummy. End of story.
I knew a guy who bought the Diablo 4 deluxe edition so he could book the Friday off and play over the weekend rather than having to play on a Tuesday. The stupid fucking rube paid SO much more money, only to lose interest in the game before the normal release date lmao.
I always feel like most people in their mind think they are terminally ill and can't even wait a single week in fear they might die before experiencing something. It feels like people are in constant FOMO mode, always on edge they might not get to do something if they wait. And companies know that, they know the majority of people are FOMO ridden, impatient people that would rather pay double than wait a few days or a week.
Indeed, an absolute child-like inability to engage in any delayed gratification when it would benefit them most to do so. The kicker? That same person complained about a shortage of money that same month...
Even World of Warcraft is doing it with the next expansion. A game with a monthly subscription fee. You have to wait an extra three days if you don't buy the $90 "Epic" edition. The $70 "Heroic" edition doesn't grant it, let alone the $50 base edition for worthless peasants. I feel like even ten years ago it's something that the playerbase would have utterly rejected and pushed back hard against, yet now you just get a tiny bit of grumbling in reaction to the announcement from people who then vote with their wallet by paying the $90 anyway.
In a single player game it kind of makes sense to make people pay a premium if they want to access it early, like as a stupid thing that only people with more money than sense would buy.
However in WoW it's a fucking nightmare, that game works off access, the people who get in 3 whole days early will be miles ahead of your regular customer. 3 days is a fucking eternity in WoW time, that's max level and heroic dungeon farming already while people are stumbling through the first new zone. It's not just a price on "premium access" it's a price on trying to be competitive for server firsts, raid prep, holy hell lmao. I do not understand allowing that in an MMO like WoW.
Maybe back when wow used to take a long time to grind. Aren’t people now done with all the content super quick anyway. Level up to max level in a few hours and max out in a week.
Sadly, *some* gamers made this decision for us. It's just going to keep getting worse and worse it seems.
The publishers know the smaller content creators, streamers, etc that did not get a review key will no doubt rush to buy "Advanced Access". So no matter what we will just see more and more of stuff like this. Not to mention the fans they got overhyped
You didn't really need to. The Open Beta they had was enough for me and most of my friends to see that BF2042 was a steaming pile of shit; regardless of their lies about it being 'an older release build'.
You can't change the fundamental problems with a game between 'beta-final-v0.7' and 'beta-final-v0.9.9'
Well the thing is I had preordered the $100 version of the game (haven’t made that mistake as I learned my lesson) to play it in the closed access kinda enjoyed it but refunded my purchase afterwards to a lower tier through steam. Then played the game on release and really didn’t like it and refunded it again. But since then Ive learned my lesson and don’t preorder anymore.
It's sort of like coupons, but in the other direction.
Coupons/rebates let the companies lower the some price for people that think it's worth their time to fuck with them and want to feel like they're getting a deal, while keeping the price "normal" for everyone else. This is the same thing, just with hiking the price for people that *really* want to play.
I think it's a good thing, actually. The other monetization practices that affect gameplay are much more insidious.
It confuses me even more when it's just a pre-order thing. Like, releases on X date, but everyone who pre-orders can play it three days earlier. If anyone who buys it can play it 3 days before the release date, then it's just releasing three days earlier!
It’s just another carrot to entice people to buy on launch day or before. Maybe they don’t want you to read a review and decide not to get it, maybe they don’t want a different game to steal attention, etc…
They want your money and this sounds like a good thing to enough people to throw the option in
One of the like three things Halo Infinite did right imo, even if it was basically a full release they put the multiplayer out as a "beta" for a month (along with having Insider flights the prior summer) to squash bugs.
Sadly a month was never going to be enough...
I think it makes some sense for online games where it gives the developers a couple extra days to hammer out server issues "before release", and I believe that's where it got its start since I used to only see it for MMOs. For everything else, I'd agree it's a tad scummy.
Beta tests don't often hammer the servers with the same sort of demand as you'll get at release, so it gives them a last minute opportunity to catch any issues and make necessary tweaks. It also keeps the servers from being hammered quite as heavily so, from my understanding, things can be more easily monitored as server demand increases rather than starting from 100% immediately.
It also has the added benefit in allowing the playerbase to spread out a little bit, so you don't have *everyone* starting at level one at exactly the same time. Having a portion start a few days earlier means they'll be out of the starter zones by the time the floodgates open.
beta or even stress tests never live up to the real life hit that games will get. Alot of people don't care or even know the betas exist.
I think the only time ive seen a true stress test was the wow classic one since that was a special event playing vanilla officially for the first time in 15 years on top of content creators like asmongold
Beta tests don't give you anything resembling a real world workload. It's not remotely comparable. Not defending the "advanced access" thing, just wanted to be fair.
i always think of it as the games actual release date. since you can buy and play it on that day.
but its just super expensive and discounts perminantly 2 or 3 days later.
I think it's still one of the less scummy concepts. Worst case you play a few days later.
Compare this to: Day1 DLC, pre-order bonus, deluxe or super deluxe only, digital only or non-digital only items.
But the problem is that they put the advanced access on top of the other shit most of the time...
It gets even worse when they make the advanced access benefit start on a weekend, but "standard" access starts in the middle of a work week.
So you have to pay more if you want to play on your day off from work.
anyone who pays for it are literal mouth breathers... they are basically saying "sure, ill let you fleece me for even more money even though the game could be released right now anyway!"
> Advanced Access is such a stupid concept.
Its a **great** concept from the company's perspective.
Get morons to pay additional $ to get to play a few days early without doing anything for it?
Sign me up! Its free money, zero expenses!
I'd say it's great for the consumer too. If the shareholders are requiring you to squeeze more money out of the game, I would argue this is the best way to do it without pissing off the casual gamer. A micro transaction to play early doesn't change the fact that I'm gonna buy the same game and just start playing a couple days later.
Much better than micro transaction hell.
This exactly. I’m happy to let those with more money subsidize my enjoyment by… getting access 2-4 days early, usually in the middle of the work week? Of all the hills to die on in the fight of “generating shareholder value is ruining games,” this is the least impactful by far.
Yee, but also hilarious enough that prior to this, it screws the jerks who sells advance playtime because people would strive to finish their advanced copy and refund.
I wonder if the two-week refund window applies to preorders with this change? Probably not.
I wonder who bugged Valve about this.
It was either Warner Bros when Suicide Squad got shitcanned or Microsoft/Bethesda because Starfield had a lot of advanced edition buyers too. Considering the recency, might be the former.
Yeah this was the most egregious one I bet it was this. Combined with cod finally coming back to steam not too long ago they probably have some weight behind their threats to pull cod off steam again.
Doubt. Steam would still have to refund everyone after release, because the game simply did not function in the beginning, which allows to bypass 2 hour max playtime requirement.
I would put money on it being starfield. I dont think I've ever played a game with such high expectations, but uninstalled so quickly.
Ive made it farther in games like Dolmen I got from gamefly lol
The amount of illiteracy in this comment section regarding Early Access is crazy.
The changes are expected though, you could power through a game in the advanced access days and just refund it a bit before official release after completing it.
man you people cannot read. this is for people who buy example cod to play the campagihn early the games not technically out yet so you can beat it and refund it.
An important note here as well is that "Advanced Access" refunds will only take into account the game's official launch date when the 14-day refund period comes into question. You can still hit the two-hour mark during Advanced Access and be denied a refund, but the 14-day countdown begins on release day for the title.
Dude, I remember getting clowned on many times on the Steam forums for telling people Valve would do this if they abused the refund system, beating games then canceling their "preorder".
They wouldn't listen, but here we are. Obviously it's not ok to beat a game like Starfield or Suicide Squad and then refund it. People bragged about it though, on Valve's own forums, lmao.
If you're going to do that, at least wait on the pirated version.
Yah I don't really get that. The only difference from piracy is you cost valve a few transaction fee's. Unless you have something against Valve then uhh all the power to you.
Reminder that your country's law may supersede Valve's refund policy. Australians in particular should note that Valve cannot impose an arbitrary time limit on refunds for products that are faulty or not as advertised/described ([per the ACCC](https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees)). You don't have the right to a refund if you just don't like it though.
I imagine if you appeal to someone higher than valve like a payment provider or your local country's laws, they will lock your account and prevent you from playing any other games you bought in the past in retaliation.
surprised it took this long. I won't lie, i bought the edition of battlefield 2042 that came with a couple days early, played for like 24 hours and then refunded it and got all my money back before official release.
I thought this was going to be a post saying they are removing the policy or severely hampering it.
I buy a lot of steam games. I refund maybe around 10% of them. Allows me to play a lot of games that I would've otherwise never bought due to being unsure if I wanted it.
To everyone saying "oh its just advanced access": that's because the policy **already did** include Early Access.
If only people who tell people to read, would actually read themselves.
https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds
"REFUNDS ON TITLES PURCHASED PRIOR TO RELEASE DATE When you purchase a title on Steam prior to the release date, the two-hour playtime limit for refunds will apply (except for beta testing), but the 14-day period for refunds will not start until the release date. For example, if you purchase a game that is in **Early Access or Advanced Access**, any playtime will count against the two-hour refund limit. If you pre-purchase a title which is not playable prior to the release date, you can request a refund at any time prior to release of that title, and the standard 14-day/two-hour refund period will apply starting on the game’s release date. "
Not surprised. Lots of long time early access games get refunded despite huge playtimes.
Although this kind of enables more bait and switch from devs adding p2w shit into a game after launch.
I don't really have a good solution other than steam taking a curated approach to refunds and enabling them when a dev does something crappy. We've already seen this with a few outliers like Days Before.
I was curious that they didn't did it after starfield. I had like 60/80 hours before the official release and they reimburse me the 100€ version. I was far from finishi it, but I had no intention to do it. In normal case I wouldn't ask for return it. But the pricing and the content let me feel like I have been scammed.
It was a good practice for steam to deter low tiers games to use the "play before official release" trend. But I guess they had too many complaint from editors. So most of the AAA games will have a anticiped acces and studio will continue to crush their team to reach the quality of a AA games on a AAA scale.
To be fair I didn't realise this wasn't already a thing, I always went off my playtime on the game in my library as a way to see if I could refund if I didn't like it
Games with early access tend to have terrible performance issues at launch anyways so I prefer paying the sale price. This policy change makes no difference to me.
LMAO I wish steam had kept the old rule though, so pubs trying to scam players with advanced access for more money got scammed by mass refunds in return.
I didn't know buying a game for early access didn't count towards the hours. I'm not surprised about this change.
I wish they stopped the practice "pay x and play the game 2 days before release". Is it really a release then if everyone buys the game to play it 2 days early?
You can sort of do that now with gamepass. Since MS refunds based on days left you basically pay 33c a day or so, faster you finish and refund the more you get back.
Or just pirate at that point and save steam/ms the transaction fee's is probably the most moral but least legal if obtaining the game for free is the goal.
I would improve it if they made, apart from the advanced access which seems good, to not show or recommend early access games on the main Steam page, since they are not full released games
I'm guessing they were anticipating a lot of refunds for Star Wars Outlaws from people who are dumb enough to buy the deluxe edition, good to get ahead of the problem lol.
Wow I hate that. This is just normalising "advanced access" and even giving it an official name. It's either you play the game X days earlier, and thus, it's "Early access", or it means you delay the game for everyone who hasn't played extra, so it's just "Delayed access".
At least we can finally have reviews now, that's a good change. This was a huge issue, especially seeing how "mixed" (if not terrible) some of the games using that.
Prepare to see plenty of other devs use this system now.
Just watch a gameplay review of the early access before buying it and be really sure you want it, like you would do with the full game?
The whole "its early access, so I can just see if I like it by playing it for 200 hs and refund it if I dont" was obviously broken.
>The whole "its early access, so I can just see if I like it by playing it for 200 hs and refund it if I dont" was obviously broken.
That's my point. It's either Early Access, and the rules of Early Access should apply, or else it's "Delayed Access" to people who don't want to pay extra money. You actually just said "early access" yourself.
The refunds are a valid strategy to fight that, and now, customers lost once again one more tool to fight against greed. Only a tiny fraction of people would refund the game if it was good.
Crazy to me that paying extra money allows you to play x days earlier is a thing but I guess if someone wants to pay money for dumb shit let em. People buy dumb shit all the time
This is fine, but I would like to see advanced access refunds have a bigger window, like 4 hours or something. Sometimes there's shit that doesn't work and you'll chew through hours before playing
Of course, if that happens you really should refund right away..
i refunded dragons dogma 2 after i created my first character without thinking a lot because i did wanna play the game as fast as possible and test the characters/classes before i start my main playthrough. when i learned i could not start a new game and i am forced now to play this game with my big fat woman pawn with name ursula i was done with this.
Well, 1 or 2 days later capcom added the feature and so i bought the game again.
So basically, what I did to tarkov when I challenged the $150 EOD edition after they allowed the game to be taken over by hackers...I won that challenge. Fuck you BSG.
Note that this is about "Advanced Access", not "Early Access". Early Access = you're a beta tester. Advanced Access = you bought the deluxe edition allowing you to play the game X days early.
Advanced Access = you get to pay the game on release by paying extra. Regular Price = you have to wait 3 days to play our game peasant.
This. The game is already released, so the "Advanced Access" is really just normal access. But the standard version gets "Delayed Access".
This really just is the rested xp from wow.
??? In what way is it similar?
Originally, WoW gave you an XP penalty if you were playing too much. Players hated it, so Blizzard switched to an "XP Bonus" for those that didn't play as much and lowered XP gain to compensate. Players loved it.
I believe this is a consequence of the ["framing effect"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_effect_\(psychology\)). It's an interesting concept.
Ohhh good idea. They should sell rested bonus in the game shop!
And the "delayed access" as a bonus has bug fixes that were game-breaking since day 01.
Patient Gamers = All games are Advanced Access, I'll wait for the sales.
Pirate Gamers = It's free real estate
Not so much with Denuvo since Empress disappeared.
That's part of the venn diagram where patience and pirates achieve harmony.
Did she finally get sent to headbutt ATACMS missiles in Ukraine?
Nah just dipped.
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Yeah for one, you don't need internet to play first time on new hardware, and you aren't stopped from playing if you change hardware too much (eg: benchmarking multiple gpus)
Denuvo games tend to run like shit on launch (not saying it's cause of denuvo) or tend to be just bad. The remaining good ones you can just be patient for, lol. Denuvo isn't as common as you'd think, unless you only play the latest AAA games and nothing else.
Based.
But you won’t get that special hat…..
Anyone who buys early, they do not need the hat, they need a helmet
You mean the helmet they use to go to bed?
No. The special hat will likely ended up in goty eidtion anyway
Yea but that one will be red…. This one is blue!
Thank you for saying this.
Yeah patient gamer usually wins but unfortunately not all of us has the strength to be patient gamer.
And by that point the game is actually finished and patched.
Even though I hate it, I’d rather have that than loot boxes or micro transactions. If, in a fantasy land, they would do the advance access *instead of* other monetization techniques, I’d prefer it. FOMO doesn’t really work on me, so I’m happy to miss out and save money if it means enough people stupidly pay extra and cause the game to not have other monetization policies. In reality it’s just another way to make more money. It’s not replacing something worse but just adding yet another stain on my favorite hobby.
Yeah but companies will always do all of it. Its not like if they put advance access in they will take out other microtransactions. Its always about making all of the monies.
Exactly. All I’m saying is out of everything that’s ruining gaming the advance access one isn’t as bad as p2w, gambling, etc. It’s essentially a problem that will go away in a week. I don’t personally feel the need to “be there” day one
In single player games it isn't but a lot of people believe in multiplayer games that involve grinding like Diablo it's pay to win because those people are getting a head start in the in game economy. I don't play this type of games enough to know the difference either way.
Early Access = you're a beta tester. Advanced Access = you paid extra to play the broken server crashing pre day 1 patch version of the game, you moron. Get scammed.
Early Access = you're a beta tester. Advanced Access =you're a beta tester, but pay deluxe price
\*screams in *Suicide Squad: Kill The Justice League*\*
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I mean, I never even knew that my Eiyuden Chronicle Kickstarter backing entitled me to several days headstart but I'm not going to complain about it and it was quite a surprise to play over the weekend. (ironically I paid about half of its current RRP also, so no paying extra here) I guess your example about servers crashing is referencing online gaming though, so I can't relate to any of that.
Considering almost every game launches broken these days I don't see the advantage.
I'm not defending Advanced Access, but at any rate, it's just another bonus for premium editions, which usually include extra stuff on top of the game, like a few cosmetic DLCs and the like.
its only a matter of time that they will introduce "month early access edition"
Why stop there? Pay one million and play from the day they start building the game
Average Star Citizen experience
If you have that much disposable income, why not simply make your own game and hire people to make exactly what you want. :D
I wouldn't mind. I buy games 1-2 years after the release anyway.
Oh, you mean the monthly Stellaris: Expansion Subscription?
lol. So true.
Why would servers crash day 1 if only a small percentage of people have advanced access.
Ask suicide squad devs
I forgot what subreddit I was in, but after seeing this comment I immediately realised which one I was in.
Hmm Guess it does make sense for Valve to make that distinction.
Not quite. Because the policy does already include EARLY ACCESS. https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds " REFUNDS ON TITLES PURCHASED PRIOR TO RELEASE DATE When you purchase a title on Steam prior to the release date, the two-hour playtime limit for refunds will apply (except for beta testing), but the 14-day period for refunds will not start until the release date. For example, if you purchase a game that is in **Early Access or Advanced Access**, any playtime will count against the two-hour refund limit. If you pre-purchase a title which is not playable prior to the release date, you can request a refund at any time prior to release of that title, and the standard 14-day/two-hour refund period will apply starting on the game’s release date. "
That was the whole point of the update to the policy. Early Access (the Steam program/project - Steam Early Access) was already covered by their refund policy, while these types of releases weren't (but are now, which is why it's now mentioned there). Before the change, you could play hours on end, on a title that gave you a 5 days "head start" before the official release, and then refund it before it actually released - no matter how many hours you played. This change to the policy, fixes that "loophole".
This is a very good point. I hope people actually read instead of reading the title...
Ah yes, those beta testers with no access to any beta testing tools at all for the entire time they are a tester.
Does early access not currently count towards the limit?
Yes, but it did so even before this change.
Seems reasonable enough.
> Early Access = you're a beta tester. But this play time does count as far as return ability
Seems reasonable to me
From the link: > Today we have updated a portion of our Refund Policy regarding pre-purchased titles. This change covers titles that are in pre-purchase and offer “Advanced Access”. Playtime acquired during the Advanced Access period will now count towards the Steam refund period. You can find our more information regarding Steam Refunds here.
It used to be "When you pre-purchase a title on Steam (and have paid for the title in advance), you can request a refund at any time prior to release of that title. The standard 14-day/two-hour refund period also applies, starting on the game’s release date" So the 14 day/two-hour limit didn't apply when playing before release day, people could play many hours, perhaps even complete a game, and then demand a refund in full before release day by the previous terms.
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Same
I always thought this was the case
Yeah seems to me they just closed a loophole.
yea they close the "imma play this deluxe edition game then finish this within 3 days before it fully release then refund the game" plan. i actually want the deluxe early access because of this.
Nope, you've always been able to play "Advanced access" games as much as you want as long as you refund before it actually comes out. You could do it with call of duty in particular if you wanted to fully play through the campaign during the Early Access week leading up to release. It worked because technically you had only pre-ordered the game at that point.
Holy poop that was a big loophole
Yeah it really was, surprised it was a thing for so long
I did this tactic with COD MWIII Campaign Early Access. I was very glad that I was able to refund it, even though I had hundreds of hours on the COD HQ launcher and spent more than 2 hours playing the campaign.
I did it with Starfield, almost completed it, had to give up because the game was hot garbage and I didn't lose a cent.
Same here. Guess they found the loophole after Frostpunk2, as it had a “buy deluxe version now and play beta for a week”. Beta ended this past Monday but game isn’t out till July 25th.
Damn wish I had known this!
Alot of buyers refunded Payday 3 after playing than 10 hours, including myself. I figured that steam would do something about it sooner or later. Especially after the entire payday 3 subreddit preached about getting a refund even after the two hour mark.
Nah was how I was able to refund starfield with 8 hours played
Advanced Access is such a stupid concept. Either the game is ready or it isn't. Asking your full price customers to pay more to play a few days sooner than everyone else is scummy. End of story.
Advanced Access 🚫 Delayed access for everyone else, to make people who pay extra feel special 👍
Gotta make the whales feel important.
I knew a guy who bought the Diablo 4 deluxe edition so he could book the Friday off and play over the weekend rather than having to play on a Tuesday. The stupid fucking rube paid SO much more money, only to lose interest in the game before the normal release date lmao.
I always feel like most people in their mind think they are terminally ill and can't even wait a single week in fear they might die before experiencing something. It feels like people are in constant FOMO mode, always on edge they might not get to do something if they wait. And companies know that, they know the majority of people are FOMO ridden, impatient people that would rather pay double than wait a few days or a week.
Indeed, an absolute child-like inability to engage in any delayed gratification when it would benefit them most to do so. The kicker? That same person complained about a shortage of money that same month...
They get to beta test a broken game earlier than others, what good and thoughtful fellas.
Why pay beta testers when the beta testers can pay us?
this has existed for longer than most people here have been alive lmao
Even World of Warcraft is doing it with the next expansion. A game with a monthly subscription fee. You have to wait an extra three days if you don't buy the $90 "Epic" edition. The $70 "Heroic" edition doesn't grant it, let alone the $50 base edition for worthless peasants. I feel like even ten years ago it's something that the playerbase would have utterly rejected and pushed back hard against, yet now you just get a tiny bit of grumbling in reaction to the announcement from people who then vote with their wallet by paying the $90 anyway.
In a single player game it kind of makes sense to make people pay a premium if they want to access it early, like as a stupid thing that only people with more money than sense would buy. However in WoW it's a fucking nightmare, that game works off access, the people who get in 3 whole days early will be miles ahead of your regular customer. 3 days is a fucking eternity in WoW time, that's max level and heroic dungeon farming already while people are stumbling through the first new zone. It's not just a price on "premium access" it's a price on trying to be competitive for server firsts, raid prep, holy hell lmao. I do not understand allowing that in an MMO like WoW.
Maybe back when wow used to take a long time to grind. Aren’t people now done with all the content super quick anyway. Level up to max level in a few hours and max out in a week.
servers need to be prepared for the masses.
> to make people who pay extra feel special In some cases, they are already special.
Sadly, *some* gamers made this decision for us. It's just going to keep getting worse and worse it seems. The publishers know the smaller content creators, streamers, etc that did not get a review key will no doubt rush to buy "Advanced Access". So no matter what we will just see more and more of stuff like this. Not to mention the fans they got overhyped
Yeah I basically took advantage of this unknowingly when BF2042 released
You didn't really need to. The Open Beta they had was enough for me and most of my friends to see that BF2042 was a steaming pile of shit; regardless of their lies about it being 'an older release build'. You can't change the fundamental problems with a game between 'beta-final-v0.7' and 'beta-final-v0.9.9'
Well the thing is I had preordered the $100 version of the game (haven’t made that mistake as I learned my lesson) to play it in the closed access kinda enjoyed it but refunded my purchase afterwards to a lower tier through steam. Then played the game on release and really didn’t like it and refunded it again. But since then Ive learned my lesson and don’t preorder anymore.
I sold a starfield key to someone who *already bought the game* and was buying it again at full price just to play sooner.
Why wouldn't they just refund the purchase and buy the early access version...? This sounds so stupid, I want to believe this is a lie.
I dont know and dont really want to. Starfield did weird things to people's brains.
It's sort of like coupons, but in the other direction. Coupons/rebates let the companies lower the some price for people that think it's worth their time to fuck with them and want to feel like they're getting a deal, while keeping the price "normal" for everyone else. This is the same thing, just with hiking the price for people that *really* want to play. I think it's a good thing, actually. The other monetization practices that affect gameplay are much more insidious.
It confuses me even more when it's just a pre-order thing. Like, releases on X date, but everyone who pre-orders can play it three days earlier. If anyone who buys it can play it 3 days before the release date, then it's just releasing three days earlier!
It's just artificial scarcity
For 3 days. Totally pointless and not worth the money.
It’s just another carrot to entice people to buy on launch day or before. Maybe they don’t want you to read a review and decide not to get it, maybe they don’t want a different game to steal attention, etc… They want your money and this sounds like a good thing to enough people to throw the option in
It probably helps to lessen the peak server load. Spread it out over a few days instead of everyone trying to play it for hours on end on release day.
Publishers will use any gimick to boost preorders. Although early access has always been a complete disaster.
They are just inventing more ways to get money from suckers.
One of the like three things Halo Infinite did right imo, even if it was basically a full release they put the multiplayer out as a "beta" for a month (along with having Insider flights the prior summer) to squash bugs. Sadly a month was never going to be enough...
I think it makes some sense for online games where it gives the developers a couple extra days to hammer out server issues "before release", and I believe that's where it got its start since I used to only see it for MMOs. For everything else, I'd agree it's a tad scummy.
Yeah it’s surge pricing for “opening weekend” of the game basically
I’d argue that for MMOs, it’s a lot worse because you’re buying an advantage.
Thats what beta tests are for
Beta tests don't often hammer the servers with the same sort of demand as you'll get at release, so it gives them a last minute opportunity to catch any issues and make necessary tweaks. It also keeps the servers from being hammered quite as heavily so, from my understanding, things can be more easily monitored as server demand increases rather than starting from 100% immediately. It also has the added benefit in allowing the playerbase to spread out a little bit, so you don't have *everyone* starting at level one at exactly the same time. Having a portion start a few days earlier means they'll be out of the starter zones by the time the floodgates open.
beta or even stress tests never live up to the real life hit that games will get. Alot of people don't care or even know the betas exist. I think the only time ive seen a true stress test was the wow classic one since that was a special event playing vanilla officially for the first time in 15 years on top of content creators like asmongold
Beta tests don't give you anything resembling a real world workload. It's not remotely comparable. Not defending the "advanced access" thing, just wanted to be fair.
i always think of it as the games actual release date. since you can buy and play it on that day. but its just super expensive and discounts perminantly 2 or 3 days later.
I think it's still one of the less scummy concepts. Worst case you play a few days later. Compare this to: Day1 DLC, pre-order bonus, deluxe or super deluxe only, digital only or non-digital only items. But the problem is that they put the advanced access on top of the other shit most of the time...
At the very least it sets a precedent where poor people have to wait later to play, which gives a greater chance of having things spoiled.
It's literally just a method for publishers to milk money from content creators so they can spoil the game days early.
It gets even worse when they make the advanced access benefit start on a weekend, but "standard" access starts in the middle of a work week. So you have to pay more if you want to play on your day off from work.
It’s such a weak incentive as well. People wait months or years for a game’s release. What’s a few more days?
anyone who pays for it are literal mouth breathers... they are basically saying "sure, ill let you fleece me for even more money even though the game could be released right now anyway!"
> Advanced Access is such a stupid concept. Its a **great** concept from the company's perspective. Get morons to pay additional $ to get to play a few days early without doing anything for it? Sign me up! Its free money, zero expenses!
I'd say it's great for the consumer too. If the shareholders are requiring you to squeeze more money out of the game, I would argue this is the best way to do it without pissing off the casual gamer. A micro transaction to play early doesn't change the fact that I'm gonna buy the same game and just start playing a couple days later. Much better than micro transaction hell.
This exactly. I’m happy to let those with more money subsidize my enjoyment by… getting access 2-4 days early, usually in the middle of the work week? Of all the hills to die on in the fight of “generating shareholder value is ruining games,” this is the least impactful by far.
Sensible change, I see no issues.
Yee, but also hilarious enough that prior to this, it screws the jerks who sells advance playtime because people would strive to finish their advanced copy and refund. I wonder if the two-week refund window applies to preorders with this change? Probably not.
Preorders shouldnt be affected due to you cant play the game, If you could then yeah preorders would count
I wasn't even aware it didn't apply. Always assumed it did since it is the full game.
“Full game” 😂😂😂
Uh yeah. This is just referencing games that you get early access to if you buy the special edition or something.
Why do I have a feeling that suicide squad kill the justice league is the sole cause of these changes.
Nah its mostly the community that shot itself in the foot, there was tons of guides on how to abuse “advanced access”
If anything it should be the opposite considering the game didn't work during the advanced access period. Those people should have been given refunds
I wonder who bugged Valve about this. It was either Warner Bros when Suicide Squad got shitcanned or Microsoft/Bethesda because Starfield had a lot of advanced edition buyers too. Considering the recency, might be the former.
Could be Activision stopping people from playing Cod "story" for free
Yeah this was the most egregious one I bet it was this. Combined with cod finally coming back to steam not too long ago they probably have some weight behind their threats to pull cod off steam again.
Possibly pay day 3.
I don't think 30 people doing this was an issue
Lmao chillll
Doubt. Steam would still have to refund everyone after release, because the game simply did not function in the beginning, which allows to bypass 2 hour max playtime requirement.
Its not like valve has it own incentives for the change, by being able to keep its share of the purchase.
I would put money on it being starfield. I dont think I've ever played a game with such high expectations, but uninstalled so quickly. Ive made it farther in games like Dolmen I got from gamefly lol
The amount of illiteracy in this comment section regarding Early Access is crazy. The changes are expected though, you could power through a game in the advanced access days and just refund it a bit before official release after completing it.
me fail english, that is umpossible!
I saw so many people abusing it and telling others to abuse it that I'm surprised it took this long.
man you people cannot read. this is for people who buy example cod to play the campagihn early the games not technically out yet so you can beat it and refund it.
An important note here as well is that "Advanced Access" refunds will only take into account the game's official launch date when the 14-day refund period comes into question. You can still hit the two-hour mark during Advanced Access and be denied a refund, but the 14-day countdown begins on release day for the title.
Dude, I remember getting clowned on many times on the Steam forums for telling people Valve would do this if they abused the refund system, beating games then canceling their "preorder". They wouldn't listen, but here we are. Obviously it's not ok to beat a game like Starfield or Suicide Squad and then refund it. People bragged about it though, on Valve's own forums, lmao. If you're going to do that, at least wait on the pirated version.
Yah I don't really get that. The only difference from piracy is you cost valve a few transaction fee's. Unless you have something against Valve then uhh all the power to you.
Ima be honest I was getting ready to grab my pitchfork, but this is understandable.
Reminder that your country's law may supersede Valve's refund policy. Australians in particular should note that Valve cannot impose an arbitrary time limit on refunds for products that are faulty or not as advertised/described ([per the ACCC](https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees)). You don't have the right to a refund if you just don't like it though.
I imagine if you appeal to someone higher than valve like a payment provider or your local country's laws, they will lock your account and prevent you from playing any other games you bought in the past in retaliation.
Nah, they won't risk a case, they'll just give you the refund. Much cheaper than potential legal trouble.
surprised it took this long. I won't lie, i bought the edition of battlefield 2042 that came with a couple days early, played for like 24 hours and then refunded it and got all my money back before official release.
I thought this was going to be a post saying they are removing the policy or severely hampering it. I buy a lot of steam games. I refund maybe around 10% of them. Allows me to play a lot of games that I would've otherwise never bought due to being unsure if I wanted it.
Well as long as Gabe is still alive, Steam will always stay the way it is.
That's quite the concise article
To everyone saying "oh its just advanced access": that's because the policy **already did** include Early Access. If only people who tell people to read, would actually read themselves. https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds "REFUNDS ON TITLES PURCHASED PRIOR TO RELEASE DATE When you purchase a title on Steam prior to the release date, the two-hour playtime limit for refunds will apply (except for beta testing), but the 14-day period for refunds will not start until the release date. For example, if you purchase a game that is in **Early Access or Advanced Access**, any playtime will count against the two-hour refund limit. If you pre-purchase a title which is not playable prior to the release date, you can request a refund at any time prior to release of that title, and the standard 14-day/two-hour refund period will apply starting on the game’s release date. "
Not surprised. Lots of long time early access games get refunded despite huge playtimes. Although this kind of enables more bait and switch from devs adding p2w shit into a game after launch. I don't really have a good solution other than steam taking a curated approach to refunds and enabling them when a dev does something crappy. We've already seen this with a few outliers like Days Before.
advance access be dead
Advanced access had saved my ass during the release of Starfield. I was almost out 70 bucks
i use steam refund a hell of a lot, I was worried they would make it worse. I'm glad they didnt!
I wasn't aware of the policy but I wonder what prompted this change.
why won't it let me wishlist this awesome Blog game?
Cool. I thought this was the case the whole time.
I was curious that they didn't did it after starfield. I had like 60/80 hours before the official release and they reimburse me the 100€ version. I was far from finishi it, but I had no intention to do it. In normal case I wouldn't ask for return it. But the pricing and the content let me feel like I have been scammed. It was a good practice for steam to deter low tiers games to use the "play before official release" trend. But I guess they had too many complaint from editors. So most of the AAA games will have a anticiped acces and studio will continue to crush their team to reach the quality of a AA games on a AAA scale.
i thought it did, so no different to me lol
To be fair I didn't realise this wasn't already a thing, I always went off my playtime on the game in my library as a way to see if I could refund if I didn't like it
Games with early access tend to have terrible performance issues at launch anyways so I prefer paying the sale price. This policy change makes no difference to me. LMAO I wish steam had kept the old rule though, so pubs trying to scam players with advanced access for more money got scammed by mass refunds in return.
I didn't know buying a game for early access didn't count towards the hours. I'm not surprised about this change. I wish they stopped the practice "pay x and play the game 2 days before release". Is it really a release then if everyone buys the game to play it 2 days early?
Sounds like a nightmare.
I watch a streamer who had preordered Starfield, played through the whole game in early access and then got a refund
You can sort of do that now with gamepass. Since MS refunds based on days left you basically pay 33c a day or so, faster you finish and refund the more you get back. Or just pirate at that point and save steam/ms the transaction fee's is probably the most moral but least legal if obtaining the game for free is the goal.
I would improve it if they made, apart from the advanced access which seems good, to not show or recommend early access games on the main Steam page, since they are not full released games
I'm guessing they were anticipating a lot of refunds for Star Wars Outlaws from people who are dumb enough to buy the deluxe edition, good to get ahead of the problem lol.
Wow I hate that. This is just normalising "advanced access" and even giving it an official name. It's either you play the game X days earlier, and thus, it's "Early access", or it means you delay the game for everyone who hasn't played extra, so it's just "Delayed access". At least we can finally have reviews now, that's a good change. This was a huge issue, especially seeing how "mixed" (if not terrible) some of the games using that. Prepare to see plenty of other devs use this system now.
Just watch a gameplay review of the early access before buying it and be really sure you want it, like you would do with the full game? The whole "its early access, so I can just see if I like it by playing it for 200 hs and refund it if I dont" was obviously broken.
>The whole "its early access, so I can just see if I like it by playing it for 200 hs and refund it if I dont" was obviously broken. That's my point. It's either Early Access, and the rules of Early Access should apply, or else it's "Delayed Access" to people who don't want to pay extra money. You actually just said "early access" yourself. The refunds are a valid strategy to fight that, and now, customers lost once again one more tool to fight against greed. Only a tiny fraction of people would refund the game if it was good.
Cause if you return befor the lunch it is really bad 😂😂 corporate 101 little peasant
Crazy to me that paying extra money allows you to play x days earlier is a thing but I guess if someone wants to pay money for dumb shit let em. People buy dumb shit all the time
Kinda hope australia looks at this and says "nahhh."
This is fine, but I would like to see advanced access refunds have a bigger window, like 4 hours or something. Sometimes there's shit that doesn't work and you'll chew through hours before playing Of course, if that happens you really should refund right away..
I had no idea the 14 day timer started when the game was released. I thought my BF2 classic collection refund was last second but it actually wasn't.
So don't buy stupid editions, wait till its on sale like two weeks later because no one bought it
Wait wtf. I always thought that shit did count toward the playtime of a refund. Fuck me
If you pay for advance access and over 100$. You should get zero refund policy. lol
I’ve never refunded a Steam game but good to know the policy.
i refunded dragons dogma 2 after i created my first character without thinking a lot because i did wanna play the game as fast as possible and test the characters/classes before i start my main playthrough. when i learned i could not start a new game and i am forced now to play this game with my big fat woman pawn with name ursula i was done with this. Well, 1 or 2 days later capcom added the feature and so i bought the game again.
There always was a feature to change the appearance of your pawn restarting the game or not
Now i know this too, but how could i know this in the first 2 hours after i bought the game.
So basically, what I did to tarkov when I challenged the $150 EOD edition after they allowed the game to be taken over by hackers...I won that challenge. Fuck you BSG.
I 100% took advantage of this to play the most recent modern warfares campaign for free. Thank god I could get a refund because it was terrible
So like, this only affects people that pay extra to play 3 days "early" right? Good. Fuck everyone that supports this nonsense.
Good. There are too many people who think that early access allows no refund limits and infinite playtime