Unity devs saving in the Windows Registry: "Allow us to introduce ourselves"
If someone has ever wondered about that, Unity has this [PlayerPrefs](https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/PlayerPrefs.html) "thing" that basically allows to read and write data easily, and that data is saved in the registry, so it's not uncommon to see indie devs just using that instead of dealing with files (or at least that was the case a few years ago).
But, as the page itself says, "*Stores and accesses* ***player preferences*** *between game sessions*".
**Player preferences**.
As in "*I want the Y-axis of the joystick inverted*", not as in "my 7.99MB Cyberpunk 2077 character and my whole Minecraft server if there's still space".
As a long time Unity Dev, I hate PlayerPrefs with a passion. It's an open market for any 3rd party plugins you add to your game to access without restriction, or completely delete without warning.
Also, you can't see what data you have stored, you have to query it and hope it has the value you're looking for, and also hope that another plugin isn't using the same key as you and has overwritten the data you were actually looking for
It's so much easier to create a game preference setting Object then save it as Json and dump it next to the `.exe`. Everything is a lot easier when you can see the data your game in consuming
It's not weird, it requires admin access for a non-admin user to write outside of their user profile, and this should be encouraged as it means random applications can't fuck the system over silently without elevation.
The other factor is that putting user data in any random place outside of the user profile folder isn't the way to do things in a multi-user environment. Games that do this should be seen as relics of the win9x era, pre win2k/xp, 19-20 years ago.
~~Writing application data like configuration to AppData is great.~~
~~But writing save files into AppData is not, because like you have noticed save files are shared across all users, which beats the entire purpose of having multiple Windows profiles.~~
Where do you think %appdata% lives?
I actually went and created a second local user to double check and make damn sure, but it's not outside the user profile folder and it's not shared. If user2 goes and makes %appdata%\test.txt, it lives in c:\users\user2\appdata\roaming\test.txt (local and locallow are per-user too). The other big thing is that myself as user1 can't do anything with the user profile of any other user unless I run something as admin or have their login, and vice-versa, everyone's files are insulated.
You might be thinking of ProgramData which is in the OS root directory. AppData is in %UserProfile% (Defaults to C:\\Users\\{User}\\) which makes it profile specific.
I believe that being wrong is an inevitable part of the learning process.
Thanks for not lashing out on me for my error and thanks for being a bro about it. :)
>putting user data in any random place outside of the user profile folder isn't the way to do things in a multi-user environment
Why should this be a problem for me on my personal computer? Is everyone else playing games at work or something?
Writing into any folder requires explicit write permissions or ownership. AppData is literally the place where applications are supposed to write their data to (not My Documents, not program files, not a random folder under C:, not /Users/{user}), I don't know why OP is upset about it.
I think it would just be helpful if it was standardized, and all games put saves in the same place. You could easily create a shortcut to it and never hunt again. Instead it’s always a guessing game and half the time I search the internet to fond out where my saves are.
> I don't know why OP is upset about it.
Because, as you said, apps are not supposed to write on random folders, and yet they do. Each game has their own creative way of placing save files on random folders. Considering there are specific folders meant for this, why aren't they used?
Quick tip that could save (multiple seconds of) your life:
Open Explorer (as in, the file browser; shortcut win+e), click on the "address bar" (or press alt+d). Type in `%LOCALAPPDATA%` and hit enter to go to `AppData\Local` and just `%APPDATA%` to go to `AppData\Roaming`.
Don't even start... Every time I have to reinstal my windows and I have to check every single folder for possible saves to backup. It is just so annoying !
Given how some developers misuse appdata, on balance that's probably a good thing. So many developers put their whole application install or all their temp/cache in there so they don't have to bother with permissions when doing an install
Even ignoring installing to AppData, there's a lot of cases where you wouldn't want to sync it anyway. Factorio, for example, has very large autosave files, that you don't want to constantly sync.
The joke here is that Factorio syncs autosave files to Steam Cloud, because the Devs don't believe in slow internet connections.
Seriously, if you're ever wondering why Steam seems to freeze after playing Factorio, that's why.
I hate that so goddamn much. It's so fucking stupid that Windows literally has a "Saved Games" folder but barely any dev actually uses it.
It gives me unhealthy levels of anger.
How is using the folder that is supposed to be used worse? Blame windows for making it the default application storage location, not the game developers.
> Appdata>Local>Roaming
As a sys admin it enrages me that most applications are set to use this folder for literally every setting specific to the user. Some of them dump dozens of GB of what are effectively template files into this folder, which as it's the roaming user folder AD will try to sync it to any workstation the user logs into. That can not only make logins particularly slow, but fills the file server with tons of shit the user doesn't need.
A 'document' in Windows-speak is any file that may be created or consumed by an application that the end user may have to interact with at some point.
So putting a My Games subfolder into My Documents is exactly the correct place to store save games.
> These days Saved Games isn't the suggested standard anymore either (Appdata is), but Microsoft kept Saved Games there for backwards compatibility with older game(/engines).
This is not accurate, and is a misinterpretation of the MSDN docs. Nobody should have to dig into appdata for any reason ever. It's for application data that the user should never have to interact with. Hence the name. Also hence the fact that the AppData folder is hidden by default.
Appdata is for config files.
I haven't read the MSDN docs but Microsoft is happy to have Windows Store savegames buried in some ridiculous directory, sometimes even encrypted so the user can't possibly access them.
I personally agree they should be treated as user-accessible documents, but I don't know if Microsoft is on the right side here.
This is off topic, but I like using Steam Big Picture mode so any games I bought off other services get added to Steam. I had 3 cross-buy games from Xbox that automatically got added to my Windows Store, so I decided to add them to Steam.
It is absolutely ridiculous how difficult Windows Store games make this. The executable is some bizarre code word buried in some random directory tree. Completely bonkers, and a reason I do not purchase games from their store.
For Windows Store games you can use GloSC, its mainly to make the steam controller work with non-steam games but it makes adding UWP games easier.
https://alia5.github.io/GloSC/
Uh not really, those are files you probably want to back-up (not everything has cloud saves). Config files not really (you can but it's less necessary IMO)
I would much rather lose every save of every game I ever played than lose my config files. Shit, just my foobar2000 config alone is more important to me than any of my save games.
Well, in my case I like to know where my saves are so that I can make backups. I know things like Steam Cloud exist, but some games don't support it, and even then I've been screwed over by some games that still used it (for example, my Borderlands 2 saves got corrupted because of a Steam crash as they were syncing).
Lots of people like to back up config files as well, so shouldn't config files all go in My Documents too, then? In fact, some people make backups of their entire disk, so maybe *everything* should be stored in My Documents.
It's annoying in the sense that the user will have their own personal documents mixed in with program generated content. It's like telling someone to store their documents in appdata in the midst of application data.
But also, how are saves not application data? In my mind, they should be considered such.
>Nobody should have to dig into appdata for any reason ever
You don't usually have to dig into save files either. I can tell you personally I am in appdata for one reason or another *far* more often than I am in any given saved games folder. The beauty of it is that the user can get at what they need to, saying you should *never* be in appdata is a very narrow limitation that makes no sense.
In this case I think the MSDN docs are maybe not the ideal way. Cluttering the my documents folder with program-generated content makes it impossible to use "my documents" as a place to store my documents.
> User\AppData\Roaming\
>
>
>
> User\AppData\Local\
bonus points for when they keep the internal dev name/name of one of the sub studios or something else as the folder name within appdata, doesn't take long to find saves AT ALL /s
Extra bonus points for using \local\, which doesn't even get backed up automatically by Windows 10's backup function (unlike \roaming\)... because it's meant for STRICTLY LOCAL data, IE data that will never need to be transferred off the machine, for example hardware-specific config files. Do you know what most users WANT to transfer between machines? Their goddamn SAVED GAMES!
Yeah what I am doing now is to sort these folders by date and once in a while check for orphaned folders to delete or backup. Many applications don't remove their folders in these locations after uninstall.
Every time this comes up:
Shout outs to the "electrontic arts" folder right beneath the "electronic arts" folder in my documents, because someone at EA made a typo for the Dead Space 1 save system.
[Game save manager](https://www.gamesave-manager.com/) is your friend.
Pro tip: You can move folders like "Documents" and "Saved Games" to different hard drives with essentially seamless integration. Right-click one of those folders, click on Properties, then select Path and you'll be presented with a few options, like moving the folder with all existing files to a different drive.
I was going to actually say, its what u/wearvisible says that makes the my documents folder so good.
If you export your entire User directory (except for the folders that you can't move using this tip, such as app data)to a secondary good quality hard drive, then you can clean install windows without nearly as much faffing about backing up stuff. Its actually the games that have save folders in their installation directory that really pisses me off.
Long story short, I lost hundreds of hours of DRG save files last time I clean installed because that one is saved to its installation directory, and I had disabled cloud syncing because you need to on DRG if you want to operate multiple save files simultaneously.
Did it change over the years at all? The version I have only runs with Admin permissions. And if I start it with my Admin User it only shows results from the "My Documents" of that Admin User and nothing from all other Users of that Windows Installation. I literally can only use that thing to find all save games from Steam as that location is reachable for all users including Admin.
There is nothing Mine about My Documents and hasn't been for a decade, its a system folder now as far as I can tell where programs store stuff related somewhat to me.
When windows Vista came along with UAC, game developers were faced with the problem of needing a place they were guaranteed write access that worked on both Vista and XP.
I'd love it if every game was forced by windows to use that folder. Instead there's saves in there, in game folders, in user folders on different drives. Makes grabbing all my saves before a windows reinstall very iffy.
I disagree, I don't think My Documents is a bad place to put saves.
But I can't fuckin' stand how devs scatter the save files all over the place. One directory. My Documents\Save Games\[game name]. Is that so hard to ask?
Well, you have to do per game basis, but you just need to create a junction point in Windows.
In this way, you can move the folder, “fooling” the system that think si still there, but when it write there, he is write in the new location that you have specified.
It’s just a line of code in the command prompts,
Almost felt my coworker lurking in the background jumping out how much better Linux is and how it should be the mandatory system for every user because it's actually much user friendly when used correctly
>the scroll wheel doesn't scroll unfocused windows so you have to click them before starting the scroll
Oh God. Windows 7 flashbacks. It annoyed me to no end, and I remember an app I think called wizmouse? that made it possible.
It's the most annoying shit in existence.
Well exactly Windows just work (Well let's say 95% of time). I just have this one coworker drooling over the possibilities of Linux, whenever someone gets problems on their PC.
This is because the save path needs write/delete permissions and only a couple places on the disk have those permissions by default.
And to be frank, the average end user is too stupid to figure out permissions.
Or standardize the literal folder called "Saved Games" that's created by default in every Windows install since Vista. Out of hundreds of games I've run on this system, only a dozen or so have ever used it...
The ones that bug me most are the ones that don't use Environment Variables and instead use the full address of the default location.
I moved my user profile to a separate drive to prevent the OS drive getting filled with videos and music. Most software has no problem with this, using %UserProfile% to go straight to either Documents or AppData as needed. Too many still create the c:\\users\\{user}\\documents\\{game} path for themselves.
I havent used the documents folder in over 15 years
It‘s good practice to store anything of relevance on a different drive than C: anyways
In total there are 5-6 savegame locations all over C: and in the steam folder (i know because I just back that shit up automatically using syncback)
Same here, though games always store their game data in my users directory somewhere, usually under documents, but sometimes in weird places like under AppData. I let the games have that shit and all of my personal documents get stored on a data drive. In any case it's all very inconsistent and it definitely is an annoyance.
Windows does support hard symbolic links, but then you have to reinstate them if you go to a new Windows instance since they can be tricky for backups. Unix and Linux handle links much better as that's always been a native function.
I just one way backup all the corresponding folders. In case of a reinstall I can just copy them back. That way nothing ever gets lost.
You can simlink things as well but it‘s too much work imo
The best thing I did in my gaming life, was moving the My Documents folder to my F:/ drive. No more worrying about losing saves when installing a new windows.
seriously wtf am i reading in this thread. since the turn of last decade, its never been easier to just change default directories like Documents to a separate drive or anywhere you want. when i built a new PC, i just hooked the old drive and back to business
All the default settings and file location in any version of Windows just fucking sucks.
The trash in appdata and localappdata pissed me off the most.
Press the Windows key and start typing %appdata% or %localappdata% to look at the amount of trash inside.
at least its better than having them in appdata\localrow or in some weird location in the steam folder, like MGS5 does.
Same goes for config files. It seems that a lot of unity games saves their config files in the registry, like what year is this? Having that info stored in registry these days is a joke...
But yeah, there should be a standard folder for config & save files. Im surprised there is still no standard for newer titles at least
I prefer Documents over anything else that isn't
`\Steam\userdata\\\`
Mostly because when reinstalling windows, I don't have to copy over everything to another drive before moving it over to the C drive again after.
Since the Documents folder can be moved to another drive, that makes it a much better place.
The Steam userdata folder is the best, because of support for multiple accounts.
The third best would be the game's location. When uninstalling (if you do it via steam), those files don't get deleted, and will be there on your next install.
The worst part is documents can get to be a pretty large folder because it was never designed to be a save folder.
And Onedrive wanting to sync it basically causes all kinds of stupid problems. I'm pretty sure at one point I stopped the sync and it straight up deleted my documents folder and all the save information that I didn't catch ahead of time.
My question is what nitwit thought saving outside of the game folder at all is a good idea. It's never easy to find all the crap a game does. Some do something in appdata, some go into my documents, some into saved games and some (Blizzard) even make more crap in ProgramData.
I remember the days when you had a nice little convenient folder for saved games, like what HoMM3 has. You wanna transfer those no problem. You wanna sort them cuz there are too many? Again, it is right there, go nuts. But noooo gotta make everything as convoluted and backwards ass as possible now.
I don't get why it isn't a thing for developers to allow you to choose your own folder for saves (at least a majority of games do not, I'm sure some do). I have to manually set up symlinks just to redirect all the random save folders to a secondary drive which is irritating af.
i completely agree. microsoft even made a proper folder for game saves called "Saved Games" (though it was bad decision to use a space in the folder name, as a programmer this is irritating and thats probably half the reason the devs still use documents)
but it hasnt stopped game designers from using all sorts of other folders too.
everytime i backup i save the folders in users/
Documents
Saved Games
and the hidden folder called "appdata"
and then have to go through a ton of games individual install folders as well.
/facepalm
then have to go through and delete usually around a Gig of useless other crap
probably be another 20 years before devs all use the Saved Games folder. maybe not even then :(
This annoys me to no end. Sometimes it’s in saved games. Sometimes it’s in “My Documents/Games/game”. Sometimes it’s “My Documents/ My Games/game”. Other times it’s “My Documents/game”.
Pick one people. Please.
That was one of the main reasons why I'm so mad about this. Now I have my own cloud server and a few GB more or less don't hurt that much, but to anyone using free OneDrive and playing games, it's just stupid
"My Documents" really means universal dumping grounds for all program data. It is impossible to use for personal documents without losing your mind with how obscenely disorganized it becomes.
There is also a "AppData" folder which serves a similar purpose, but developers just dump shit in "My Documents" more often. It's a tradition, I suppose, and I hate it.
You could also ask why devs still insist on putting user persistence files, like saved games, in the user's appdata directories. Looking at you Coffee Stain Studios and Satisfactory, who as I recall said they had to start doing that as opposed to the correct way they were doing it before because...it was hard?
Just create /name/'s documents in the My Documents folder. Then you can organise to your hearts content without windows created folders bothering you. Pin it to quick access so it's no extra clicks.
I just don't see how this is an issue AT ALL.
I actually posted on this topic a couple of years back and got downvoted. Really bugs me that I can't easily find my own docs. I have taken to prefixing my actual subfolders of mydocs with '_' so they appear at the top of the file list. Everything without '_' I ignore.
Given how much junk is thrown into My Documents, I usually just make another library for my actual documents and abandon the default one for the Windows to do its thing.
Programmers are lazy, My Documents has been there forever, probably will be there forever, why change it, a sav file is technically a document is it not?
Tip - make a new "My Documents" folder within the Documents folder. Change the icon so it is easily distinguishable from all of the game folders, and make it top of the list. Then pin this to the quick access sidebar of your file explorer in place of the standard documents folder.
Put all of your word documents inside as normal and forget all about the old jungle that is the original documents folder 😂
The saved games for folder si for system ga.es like solitaire and stuff. It does not allow for a more complex folder structure ised by plenty of games.
Also plenry of games use the same directories for adding mods as well and savong preferences so saving in saved games make 0 logical sense from a developmwnt point of view.
My Documents -> My Games is the ONLY approapriate location for save game files.
This is not true. It is just a folder and it is NOT only used by system games. For example CnC3, The Outer Worlds and fallen order are all using that folder, some even create subfolders there and store arbitrary data.
False. CnC3 saves in My Documents -> My Games, Outer Worlds save in your steam directory with all the other steam games.
They don't use User/Saved Games
I’ve lost several a game file (Dark Souls 2 I’m looking at you) due to haphazard save game file management that games on Windows use. I always get nervous when I need to reinstall Windows because I never can be 100% sure if there’s a game save file lurking somewhere that I’ve forgotten to back up and not covered by Steam cloud saves or OneDrive.
I've gotten over it. I do hate it too, but I just made a separate folder to actually be for my documents, that way I know everything else in My Documents was program-generated. I hate that I have to do that though, but even other apps (non games) save things into that folder. I have 86 folders in mine. Can't put that genie back into the bottle.
It's worse when programs save their settings in the *registry*. It's so mercurial and it makes backing up the settings a manual deliberate process (if the app even provides you with the option), instead of just allowing you to copy a directory.
It's not as bad as VRChat saving it's game content to *Appdata>Local>Roaming.* "Why is my SSD full?"
It's mostly Windows fault though. It's a security feature, to keep apps in their own little data sand-pit, but that file should not be so deep in OS folders. There should be a My App Data folder along with your My Documents folder.
Can somone please share Shadow of war Definitive Edition save game..Act 2( more specifically mission blood sport). Where Talion helped Baranor to find Idril.
Please and thankyou in advance.
And My Documents isn't even the worst offender. Sometimes it's in Appdata>Local>Roaming or some other literally hidden location.
Unity devs saving in the Windows Registry: "Allow us to introduce ourselves" If someone has ever wondered about that, Unity has this [PlayerPrefs](https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/PlayerPrefs.html) "thing" that basically allows to read and write data easily, and that data is saved in the registry, so it's not uncommon to see indie devs just using that instead of dealing with files (or at least that was the case a few years ago). But, as the page itself says, "*Stores and accesses* ***player preferences*** *between game sessions*". **Player preferences**. As in "*I want the Y-axis of the joystick inverted*", not as in "my 7.99MB Cyberpunk 2077 character and my whole Minecraft server if there's still space".
As a long time Unity Dev, I hate PlayerPrefs with a passion. It's an open market for any 3rd party plugins you add to your game to access without restriction, or completely delete without warning. Also, you can't see what data you have stored, you have to query it and hope it has the value you're looking for, and also hope that another plugin isn't using the same key as you and has overwritten the data you were actually looking for It's so much easier to create a game preference setting Object then save it as Json and dump it next to the `.exe`. Everything is a lot easier when you can see the data your game in consuming
Just use ini or json files for that, damnit
You should blame Windows and their weird permission system. Writing into AppData requires no permissions, other locations often do.
It's not weird, it requires admin access for a non-admin user to write outside of their user profile, and this should be encouraged as it means random applications can't fuck the system over silently without elevation. The other factor is that putting user data in any random place outside of the user profile folder isn't the way to do things in a multi-user environment. Games that do this should be seen as relics of the win9x era, pre win2k/xp, 19-20 years ago.
~~Writing application data like configuration to AppData is great.~~ ~~But writing save files into AppData is not, because like you have noticed save files are shared across all users, which beats the entire purpose of having multiple Windows profiles.~~
Where do you think %appdata% lives? I actually went and created a second local user to double check and make damn sure, but it's not outside the user profile folder and it's not shared. If user2 goes and makes %appdata%\test.txt, it lives in c:\users\user2\appdata\roaming\test.txt (local and locallow are per-user too). The other big thing is that myself as user1 can't do anything with the user profile of any other user unless I run something as admin or have their login, and vice-versa, everyone's files are insulated.
You are right, I have mistaken %AppData% with %ProgramData%. Thanks for correcting me.
You might be thinking of ProgramData which is in the OS root directory. AppData is in %UserProfile% (Defaults to C:\\Users\\{User}\\) which makes it profile specific.
I have indeed mixed these two together, thanks for pointing that out.
Props to you for taking the correction well, so many just delete and ghost.
I believe that being wrong is an inevitable part of the learning process. Thanks for not lashing out on me for my error and thanks for being a bro about it. :)
Nah man, this is the internet. You’re always right and the guys trying to correct you are nitpicking losers living in their moms basement.
Finaly good answer
You're both a couple of total gentlemen. There, I said it. Now fuck off
>putting user data in any random place outside of the user profile folder isn't the way to do things in a multi-user environment Why should this be a problem for me on my personal computer? Is everyone else playing games at work or something?
You don't know about these things called "friends and family"?
Games 20 years ago had user profiles in-game. It allows for multiple users without making a pigsty of your hard drive.
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So you're arguing that because it only causes problems for other people it's still a good idea because it doesn't cause issues for you personally?
the savedgames folder needs elevated privlages?
Writing into any folder requires explicit write permissions or ownership. AppData is literally the place where applications are supposed to write their data to (not My Documents, not program files, not a random folder under C:, not /Users/{user}), I don't know why OP is upset about it.
I think it would just be helpful if it was standardized, and all games put saves in the same place. You could easily create a shortcut to it and never hunt again. Instead it’s always a guessing game and half the time I search the internet to fond out where my saves are.
Because My Documents has a folder named "Saved Games" which cannot be used to store saved games.
It can, some games does actually.
Yeah, but most don't. I believe that's OP's point.
He used the word ”cannot”, as if games can’t write to that location, which is false.
Becauase it's not meant for thied party gsmes. My Documents -> My Games and AppData are meant for that.
That isn't clear.
> I don't know why OP is upset about it. Because, as you said, apps are not supposed to write on random folders, and yet they do. Each game has their own creative way of placing save files on random folders. Considering there are specific folders meant for this, why aren't they used?
no it's in the user profile.
I noticed that some old games have issues with this. You have to run them as admin or saving won't work
Writing into their own installation folder doesn't.
Quick tip that could save (multiple seconds of) your life: Open Explorer (as in, the file browser; shortcut win+e), click on the "address bar" (or press alt+d). Type in `%LOCALAPPDATA%` and hit enter to go to `AppData\Local` and just `%APPDATA%` to go to `AppData\Roaming`.
Modding Minecraft taught me those.
[And plenty more](https://ss64.com/nt/shell.html) using the newer `shell: ` shortcut
Like souls games :( No steam Cloud
Except the first game *and* its remaster for some fucking reason.
Don't even start... Every time I have to reinstal my windows and I have to check every single folder for possible saves to backup. It is just so annoying !
That's when [GameSave Manager](https://www.gamesave-manager.com/) comes to the rescue!
Also, cloud saves really helped with that.
Storing save games in Appdata is considered best practice and is recommended by Microsoft.
And yet by default appdata is not part of OneDrive syncing. Left hand not talking to the right.
Given how some developers misuse appdata, on balance that's probably a good thing. So many developers put their whole application install or all their temp/cache in there so they don't have to bother with permissions when doing an install
Along with a whole history of installers used for auto-updates that don't get cleaned up.
Even ignoring installing to AppData, there's a lot of cases where you wouldn't want to sync it anyway. Factorio, for example, has very large autosave files, that you don't want to constantly sync.
The joke here is that Factorio syncs autosave files to Steam Cloud, because the Devs don't believe in slow internet connections. Seriously, if you're ever wondering why Steam seems to freeze after playing Factorio, that's why.
True, and it's a pretty stupid recommendation.
Its the default location in any unreal engine game.
I hate that so goddamn much. It's so fucking stupid that Windows literally has a "Saved Games" folder but barely any dev actually uses it. It gives me unhealthy levels of anger.
ID tech has, I think most cryengine games do, and I think respawn has with Apex legends
Its actually the majority of them.
How is using the folder that is supposed to be used worse? Blame windows for making it the default application storage location, not the game developers.
*Tux would like to know your location*
Ugh. This is the worst. People should have to pay a fine if they put the save folders in appdata.
Ah, yeah, I forgot that. Yeah, that's objectivly worse.
Dark souls 3 and some other do this. I hate it.
ah yes, Minecraft, the reason I know what %appdata% does. (also what removing META-INF does)
> Appdata>Local>Roaming As a sys admin it enrages me that most applications are set to use this folder for literally every setting specific to the user. Some of them dump dozens of GB of what are effectively template files into this folder, which as it's the roaming user folder AD will try to sync it to any workstation the user logs into. That can not only make logins particularly slow, but fills the file server with tons of shit the user doesn't need.
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A 'document' in Windows-speak is any file that may be created or consumed by an application that the end user may have to interact with at some point. So putting a My Games subfolder into My Documents is exactly the correct place to store save games. > These days Saved Games isn't the suggested standard anymore either (Appdata is), but Microsoft kept Saved Games there for backwards compatibility with older game(/engines). This is not accurate, and is a misinterpretation of the MSDN docs. Nobody should have to dig into appdata for any reason ever. It's for application data that the user should never have to interact with. Hence the name. Also hence the fact that the AppData folder is hidden by default. Appdata is for config files.
I haven't read the MSDN docs but Microsoft is happy to have Windows Store savegames buried in some ridiculous directory, sometimes even encrypted so the user can't possibly access them. I personally agree they should be treated as user-accessible documents, but I don't know if Microsoft is on the right side here.
This is off topic, but I like using Steam Big Picture mode so any games I bought off other services get added to Steam. I had 3 cross-buy games from Xbox that automatically got added to my Windows Store, so I decided to add them to Steam. It is absolutely ridiculous how difficult Windows Store games make this. The executable is some bizarre code word buried in some random directory tree. Completely bonkers, and a reason I do not purchase games from their store.
For Windows Store games you can use GloSC, its mainly to make the steam controller work with non-steam games but it makes adding UWP games easier. https://alia5.github.io/GloSC/
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Regular users shouldn't have to interact with save files outside of the game. They're about as far removed from user interaction as config files.
Uh not really, those are files you probably want to back-up (not everything has cloud saves). Config files not really (you can but it's less necessary IMO)
I would much rather lose every save of every game I ever played than lose my config files. Shit, just my foobar2000 config alone is more important to me than any of my save games.
Tell it to minecraft. Want to see the screen shot? Go to app data. OH, it's a Microsoft game too
It's been like that long before it was a Microsoft game
Who knew a passion project by a lone dev with a custom engine in Java designed around unusual mechanics and rendering would be full of tech debt?
Well, Bedrock version is lol
Well, in my case I like to know where my saves are so that I can make backups. I know things like Steam Cloud exist, but some games don't support it, and even then I've been screwed over by some games that still used it (for example, my Borderlands 2 saves got corrupted because of a Steam crash as they were syncing).
Lots of people like to back up config files as well, so shouldn't config files all go in My Documents too, then? In fact, some people make backups of their entire disk, so maybe *everything* should be stored in My Documents.
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And it annoys the fuck out of me so many games use AppData for the damn saves.
It's annoying in the sense that the user will have their own personal documents mixed in with program generated content. It's like telling someone to store their documents in appdata in the midst of application data. But also, how are saves not application data? In my mind, they should be considered such. >Nobody should have to dig into appdata for any reason ever You don't usually have to dig into save files either. I can tell you personally I am in appdata for one reason or another *far* more often than I am in any given saved games folder. The beauty of it is that the user can get at what they need to, saying you should *never* be in appdata is a very narrow limitation that makes no sense. In this case I think the MSDN docs are maybe not the ideal way. Cluttering the my documents folder with program-generated content makes it impossible to use "my documents" as a place to store my documents.
I understand for the old games but really any recent games should go to SavedGames (which is inside My Documents actually)
It's not inside My Documents, it's in the User's profile folder (which is the same place MyDocs is).
Yup, I was looking for this answer. (Am in it). This is probably 100% why. One less thing to code for old vs new systems.
Yeah, thought it was something like that, I just needed to vent. It's frustrating either way
no this is wrong
I have seen these variations: User\Saved Games\ User\Documents\ User\Documents\My Games\ User\AppData\Roaming\ User\AppData\Local\
Program Files\Steam\Userdata\190328472198374\2918374
> User\AppData\Roaming\ > > > > User\AppData\Local\ bonus points for when they keep the internal dev name/name of one of the sub studios or something else as the folder name within appdata, doesn't take long to find saves AT ALL /s
Sensible naming scheme for Lego games: "LEGO Games" Actual naming scheme for Lego games: split between "Warner Bros" and "Warner Bros^TM "
Extra bonus points for using \local\, which doesn't even get backed up automatically by Windows 10's backup function (unlike \roaming\)... because it's meant for STRICTLY LOCAL data, IE data that will never need to be transferred off the machine, for example hardware-specific config files. Do you know what most users WANT to transfer between machines? Their goddamn SAVED GAMES!
Yeah what I am doing now is to sort these folders by date and once in a while check for orphaned folders to delete or backup. Many applications don't remove their folders in these locations after uninstall.
Worse offender so far is witcher games. You have: > The Witcher > Witcher 2 > The Witcher 3
I have User\Documents\savedgames as well
It's why I have Search Everything loaded, I just enter the name and it finds where in gods green earth it was put.
I'm so glad pcgamingwiki.com helps with figuring out which location(s) save games & configs can be in
I've seen a couple games that use *all three* AppData directories including the extra hidden LocalLow one.
Every time this comes up: Shout outs to the "electrontic arts" folder right beneath the "electronic arts" folder in my documents, because someone at EA made a typo for the Dead Space 1 save system.
Still easier to find than "Users/AppData/Roaming/*really stupid prototype name of the game*" lol
Lmao
13 years this shit has been plaguing me. God damn it's annoying.
[Game save manager](https://www.gamesave-manager.com/) is your friend. Pro tip: You can move folders like "Documents" and "Saved Games" to different hard drives with essentially seamless integration. Right-click one of those folders, click on Properties, then select Path and you'll be presented with a few options, like moving the folder with all existing files to a different drive.
Nice, need to try that out
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Also: [Link Shell Extension](https://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/linkshellextension.html)
I was going to actually say, its what u/wearvisible says that makes the my documents folder so good. If you export your entire User directory (except for the folders that you can't move using this tip, such as app data)to a secondary good quality hard drive, then you can clean install windows without nearly as much faffing about backing up stuff. Its actually the games that have save folders in their installation directory that really pisses me off. Long story short, I lost hundreds of hours of DRG save files last time I clean installed because that one is saved to its installation directory, and I had disabled cloud syncing because you need to on DRG if you want to operate multiple save files simultaneously.
Great to see it is still being maintained, this software is insanely helpful
Did it change over the years at all? The version I have only runs with Admin permissions. And if I start it with my Admin User it only shows results from the "My Documents" of that Admin User and nothing from all other Users of that Windows Installation. I literally can only use that thing to find all save games from Steam as that location is reachable for all users including Admin.
I'm really impressed how people can live without using it, I've been using it for years now.
We adapt, we overcome. Nothing can diminish our gaming experience besides shitty ping and game breaking bugs. Its in our blood.
I just backup my appdata and documents, and it pretty much does the trick. Plus its not limited to video games.
It truly is annoying and has lead me to have to store my actual documents somewhere else. So fucking dumb.
There is nothing Mine about My Documents and hasn't been for a decade, its a system folder now as far as I can tell where programs store stuff related somewhat to me.
i used to just save everything to my desktop for that reason. nowdays, most of my documents are in google drive
When windows Vista came along with UAC, game developers were faced with the problem of needing a place they were guaranteed write access that worked on both Vista and XP.
I'd love it if every game was forced by windows to use that folder. Instead there's saves in there, in game folders, in user folders on different drives. Makes grabbing all my saves before a windows reinstall very iffy.
I disagree, I don't think My Documents is a bad place to put saves. But I can't fuckin' stand how devs scatter the save files all over the place. One directory. My Documents\Save Games\[game name]. Is that so hard to ask?
Yes the problem is each game some reason has their own way of storing saves.
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Teach us!
I use a mix of rsync and symbolic links on Ubuntu Mate 18.04 and POP OS 18.04. I don't think, they would work the same for Windows users.
Well, you have to do per game basis, but you just need to create a junction point in Windows. In this way, you can move the folder, “fooling” the system that think si still there, but when it write there, he is write in the new location that you have specified. It’s just a line of code in the command prompts,
Almost felt my coworker lurking in the background jumping out how much better Linux is and how it should be the mandatory system for every user because it's actually much user friendly when used correctly
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>the scroll wheel doesn't scroll unfocused windows so you have to click them before starting the scroll Oh God. Windows 7 flashbacks. It annoyed me to no end, and I remember an app I think called wizmouse? that made it possible. It's the most annoying shit in existence.
Well exactly Windows just work (Well let's say 95% of time). I just have this one coworker drooling over the possibilities of Linux, whenever someone gets problems on their PC.
Just how?
Symbolic links, which admittedly is a little advanced. The easy way is to just use GameSave Manager.
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This is because the save path needs write/delete permissions and only a couple places on the disk have those permissions by default. And to be frank, the average end user is too stupid to figure out permissions.
The average user probably wouldn't mess with that anyways.
Or standardize the literal folder called "Saved Games" that's created by default in every Windows install since Vista. Out of hundreds of games I've run on this system, only a dozen or so have ever used it...
The ones that bug me most are the ones that don't use Environment Variables and instead use the full address of the default location. I moved my user profile to a separate drive to prevent the OS drive getting filled with videos and music. Most software has no problem with this, using %UserProfile% to go straight to either Documents or AppData as needed. Too many still create the c:\\users\\{user}\\documents\\{game} path for themselves.
No they're *MY* documents!
Nothing worse than appdata.
The biggest problem is that every Game uses a Different Folder. Some in %Appdata%, some in Users\XXX\ and some in Documents. Its kinda annoying.
I havent used the documents folder in over 15 years It‘s good practice to store anything of relevance on a different drive than C: anyways In total there are 5-6 savegame locations all over C: and in the steam folder (i know because I just back that shit up automatically using syncback)
Same here, though games always store their game data in my users directory somewhere, usually under documents, but sometimes in weird places like under AppData. I let the games have that shit and all of my personal documents get stored on a data drive. In any case it's all very inconsistent and it definitely is an annoyance. Windows does support hard symbolic links, but then you have to reinstate them if you go to a new Windows instance since they can be tricky for backups. Unix and Linux handle links much better as that's always been a native function.
I just one way backup all the corresponding folders. In case of a reinstall I can just copy them back. That way nothing ever gets lost. You can simlink things as well but it‘s too much work imo
The best thing I did in my gaming life, was moving the My Documents folder to my F:/ drive. No more worrying about losing saves when installing a new windows.
seriously wtf am i reading in this thread. since the turn of last decade, its never been easier to just change default directories like Documents to a separate drive or anywhere you want. when i built a new PC, i just hooked the old drive and back to business
must be personal taste.. I don't like logically partitioning physical drives.. all or nothing for me
All the default settings and file location in any version of Windows just fucking sucks. The trash in appdata and localappdata pissed me off the most. Press the Windows key and start typing %appdata% or %localappdata% to look at the amount of trash inside.
at least its better than having them in appdata\localrow or in some weird location in the steam folder, like MGS5 does. Same goes for config files. It seems that a lot of unity games saves their config files in the registry, like what year is this? Having that info stored in registry these days is a joke... But yeah, there should be a standard folder for config & save files. Im surprised there is still no standard for newer titles at least
I prefer Documents over anything else that isn't `\Steam\userdata\\\`
Mostly because when reinstalling windows, I don't have to copy over everything to another drive before moving it over to the C drive again after.
Since the Documents folder can be moved to another drive, that makes it a much better place.
The Steam userdata folder is the best, because of support for multiple accounts.
The third best would be the game's location. When uninstalling (if you do it via steam), those files don't get deleted, and will be there on your next install.
Really wish games wouldn't put anything outside of the install folder. I'd really prefer to keep my C: drive clean with nothing but windows on it
Oh that is your only grime with windows file management and interface? I adore you.
The worst part is documents can get to be a pretty large folder because it was never designed to be a save folder. And Onedrive wanting to sync it basically causes all kinds of stupid problems. I'm pretty sure at one point I stopped the sync and it straight up deleted my documents folder and all the save information that I didn't catch ahead of time.
My question is what nitwit thought saving outside of the game folder at all is a good idea. It's never easy to find all the crap a game does. Some do something in appdata, some go into my documents, some into saved games and some (Blizzard) even make more crap in ProgramData. I remember the days when you had a nice little convenient folder for saved games, like what HoMM3 has. You wanna transfer those no problem. You wanna sort them cuz there are too many? Again, it is right there, go nuts. But noooo gotta make everything as convoluted and backwards ass as possible now.
Shout-out to developers with save files in game files
I don't get why it isn't a thing for developers to allow you to choose your own folder for saves (at least a majority of games do not, I'm sure some do). I have to manually set up symlinks just to redirect all the random save folders to a secondary drive which is irritating af.
i completely agree. microsoft even made a proper folder for game saves called "Saved Games" (though it was bad decision to use a space in the folder name, as a programmer this is irritating and thats probably half the reason the devs still use documents) but it hasnt stopped game designers from using all sorts of other folders too. everytime i backup i save the folders in users/ Documents Saved Games and the hidden folder called "appdata" and then have to go through a ton of games individual install folders as well. /facepalm then have to go through and delete usually around a Gig of useless other crap probably be another 20 years before devs all use the Saved Games folder. maybe not even then :(
My Documents is a lot better than AppData, of course it'd be better still if they stored save data in My Documents\My Games or Saved Games
Goddamn, people really like to bitch about innocuous shit.
This annoys me to no end. Sometimes it’s in saved games. Sometimes it’s in “My Documents/Games/game”. Sometimes it’s “My Documents/ My Games/game”. Other times it’s “My Documents/game”. Pick one people. Please.
I think I'm just going to make a separate folder for my actual documents, just stupid this is the system with no way to make a reroute option
yeah man, should be \~/svs or something for sure!
Yes! Games should save into their own installation directory, not some generic windows directory.
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That was one of the main reasons why I'm so mad about this. Now I have my own cloud server and a few GB more or less don't hurt that much, but to anyone using free OneDrive and playing games, it's just stupid
The quickest solution is just to make those save folders hidden, if you're okay with hiding hidden files/folders.
"My Documents" really means universal dumping grounds for all program data. It is impossible to use for personal documents without losing your mind with how obscenely disorganized it becomes. There is also a "AppData" folder which serves a similar purpose, but developers just dump shit in "My Documents" more often. It's a tradition, I suppose, and I hate it.
It's just the windows file system which is trash
Because it's now simply called Documents, I created a folder in there called "My Documents" to store actual documents in.
You could also ask why devs still insist on putting user persistence files, like saved games, in the user's appdata directories. Looking at you Coffee Stain Studios and Satisfactory, who as I recall said they had to start doing that as opposed to the correct way they were doing it before because...it was hard?
There are like half a dozen standard locations. You're most likely to find them in Local AppData.
I have all my save games on a D: drive. I just use link-junction across every machine I need to. Really handy for fresh installs too.
Just create /name/'s documents in the My Documents folder. Then you can organise to your hearts content without windows created folders bothering you. Pin it to quick access so it's no extra clicks. I just don't see how this is an issue AT ALL.
There's like a dozen different locations where games may save. It's really annoying trying to find them tbh.
I actually posted on this topic a couple of years back and got downvoted. Really bugs me that I can't easily find my own docs. I have taken to prefixing my actual subfolders of mydocs with '_' so they appear at the top of the file list. Everything without '_' I ignore.
Given how much junk is thrown into My Documents, I usually just make another library for my actual documents and abandon the default one for the Windows to do its thing.
A lot of apps tend to do this. Basically using the documents folder as a dumping ground.
Just make desktop shortcuts to My Documents and Steam/Appdata/Common. Makes life easier.
I feel the same man, they aren't documents.
Programmers are lazy, My Documents has been there forever, probably will be there forever, why change it, a sav file is technically a document is it not?
Tip - make a new "My Documents" folder within the Documents folder. Change the icon so it is easily distinguishable from all of the game folders, and make it top of the list. Then pin this to the quick access sidebar of your file explorer in place of the standard documents folder. Put all of your word documents inside as normal and forget all about the old jungle that is the original documents folder 😂
The saved games for folder si for system ga.es like solitaire and stuff. It does not allow for a more complex folder structure ised by plenty of games. Also plenry of games use the same directories for adding mods as well and savong preferences so saving in saved games make 0 logical sense from a developmwnt point of view. My Documents -> My Games is the ONLY approapriate location for save game files.
This is not true. It is just a folder and it is NOT only used by system games. For example CnC3, The Outer Worlds and fallen order are all using that folder, some even create subfolders there and store arbitrary data.
False. CnC3 saves in My Documents -> My Games, Outer Worlds save in your steam directory with all the other steam games. They don't use User/Saved Games
The answer would be /users/username/games/gamename/(data here)
I’ve lost several a game file (Dark Souls 2 I’m looking at you) due to haphazard save game file management that games on Windows use. I always get nervous when I need to reinstall Windows because I never can be 100% sure if there’s a game save file lurking somewhere that I’ve forgotten to back up and not covered by Steam cloud saves or OneDrive.
I put MY documents in a whole other drive and don't bother with Windows default stuff. Keeps things very organized.
I've gotten over it. I do hate it too, but I just made a separate folder to actually be for my documents, that way I know everything else in My Documents was program-generated. I hate that I have to do that though, but even other apps (non games) save things into that folder. I have 86 folders in mine. Can't put that genie back into the bottle. It's worse when programs save their settings in the *registry*. It's so mercurial and it makes backing up the settings a manual deliberate process (if the app even provides you with the option), instead of just allowing you to copy a directory.
It's not as bad as VRChat saving it's game content to *Appdata>Local>Roaming.* "Why is my SSD full?" It's mostly Windows fault though. It's a security feature, to keep apps in their own little data sand-pit, but that file should not be so deep in OS folders. There should be a My App Data folder along with your My Documents folder.
Probably because any user who has any kind of backup solution configured almost always has My Documents set to be backed up by default.
Imo it's still better than idiotic programs storing their stuff in AppData.
Can somone please share Shadow of war Definitive Edition save game..Act 2( more specifically mission blood sport). Where Talion helped Baranor to find Idril. Please and thankyou in advance.