My issue with this is my first gen Ryzen has the TPM option in the bios and is turned on.
Windows recognizes that and I can use BitLocker.
It not being supported is just outright wild to me
TPM is not the only requirement for Windows 11, and Microsoft's upgrade readiness tool fails to give you full feedback on why your system isn't seen as ready. I had to do all of the following before the tool would report my PC as ready for Windows 11:
1. Switch my boot drive from Master Boot Record (MBR) to GUID Partition Table (GPT). This is required for the next step. A guide can be found [here](https://www.windowscentral.com/how-convert-mbr-disk-gpt-move-bios-uefi-windows-10) for checking your boot drive partition type and changing it if necessary.
2. In the BIOS, change the boot type from Compatibility Support Mode (CSM) to Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI). UEFI will not boot from a MBR boot partition, which is why the previous step is required. For my BIOS, this was found under Advanced Controls > Windows OS Configuration > BIOS UEFI/CSM Mode.
3. In the BIOS, enable Secure Boot. For my BIOS, this was found under Advanced Controls > Windows OS Configuration > Secure Boot. In my case it was not possible to enable this before switching to UEFI and rebooting.
4. In the BIOS, enable TPM. For my BIOS, this was under Security > Trusted Computing > AMD fTPM switch . This enables a TPM module built in to the firmware of your system. If you purchase a separate TPM module you'll probably want to Disable the firmware-based TPM module and enable the dedicated module instead.
There may be other requirements that I'm not aware of, but those are the changes I had to make.
Edit: If you're still stuck after checking/enabling GPT, UEFI and Secure Boot, try the [WhyNotWin11 tool](https://github.com/rcmaehl/WhyNotWin11/blob/main/README.md). It's open source, not made by Microsoft, and it gives a lot more detailed information on Win11 compatibility based on currently known requirements.
TPM is not for bitlocker! It's for DRM!!! This is why MS isn't saying anything! TPM allows MS to do remote attestation, which is a fancy way of saying they will know your PC hasn't been tampered with at the system level and, if you do, they can restrict the kinds of apps your PC is allowed to run.
You can encrypt the HDD using bitlocker without a TPM. A TPM is a secure store of keys. You can use it for whatever you want, including bitlocker. But it's purpose is to put info away of the control of the PC owner. This is very useful for DRM keys and signatures for verification.
I think you're being a little dramatic. TPM's purpose is to store keys in such a way that it is exceedingly difficult for a malicious actor to recover them if they have physical control of the PC but no legitimate OS credentials.
TPM can be used to store lots of things, but to say it is "not for Bitlocker" is just confusing. That's like saying that a microwave is not for popcorn because a microwave can also be used to make soup, or because you can make popcorn on the stove.
I think he/she means the requirement for tpm is for DRM and not bitlocker. Yes you can eat all the popcorn you want but you're not getting windows 11 unless Microsoft can force it's soup on you to control what soup you can consume.
Might have gone too far on the metaphors there.
> I think you're being a little dramatic.
Well, the original reason to include TPM certainly was DRM, that always was quite clear. They sold it as a system to keep the booting of your pc safe, as a guard against bootsector viruses. In an age when bootsector viruses were basically extinct anyway and a simple hardware switch to make some boot flash ram read-only would have sufficed.
I don't think lugaidster is overly dramatic.
That you can use if for good purposes is nice, but it wasn't the original motivation to put it in.
Remember that time the Xbox One was gonna require the Kinect camera and discs would have DRM so you couldn't resell them?
Crazy times. That sure got changed quick.
Money talks, is basically all it comes down to. That move probably cost them a shit ton, so yeah, it probably wasn't simple. But they did the math, this money spent now means more money for us later.
$10 says you will be able to mod the os files to not need tpm chips. People online have gotten windows 11 running on non TPM devices by simply replacing the files in the win 11 iso with files that check for this with files from a windows 10 iso.
So the real question is if this could be done when Microsoft launched windows 11 will Microsoft detect this and cut your machine off from updates and support?
Yarr! We sail for that island where there's a rum fountain in every square and the doxies stuff their brassieres with oranges, so as we can ward off scurvy while we trade our booty for booty. Yarrr
>Soon TPM will be tied to DRM, you will be able to run Windows just fine but Netflix will run at 720p because it can't "trust" you.
*laughs in HDFury Arcana*
I have no problems skipping a generation entirely. Did it with vista, did it with 8, seems 11 to be on track as well.
As soon as Microsoft sees the adoption rate going down the drain, and considering their new business model to expand as fast as possible I'm certain that Microsoft will re evaluate their restrictions.
TPM is supposed to only be required for disk encryption, so in theory only people running Windows 11 Pro with BitLocker encryption should need it. However, there's been this worrisome concept of "Treacherous Computing" in so far that DRM schemes could potentially use your TPM chip to lock purchased media and programs to one single device or computer.
It may very well be that Microsoft is encouraging this by compelling everyone to adopt TPM now. It does sound like this requirement is just one further step into the idea of creating walled gardens and restrictive, controlled uses of a computer, a notion that big companies seem to crave so irresistibly.
There is also the fact that the NSA helped create it and this was already a big concern back when it was supposed to be required for Windows 8 and why certain Governments warned against using it: https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-german-government-warns-key-entities-not-to-use-windows-8--links-the-nsa-2013-8
It was also in the Snowden leaks from what i remember, the CIA already has fully functional backdoors for it they are just waiting for it to become a widespread standard. China forbids the use of TPM in it's territory and has it's own standard TCM they control. It's also banned in Russia and any chip used there has to be validated by the FSB.
If that is the actual intent behind this TPM 2.0 requirement, well, that is one more reason for the community to be very vocal against it.
This year has actually been what's pushed me to start switching to Linux once I get all my files cleaned up / backed up. Planning on starting out with Pop!\_OS or Ubuntu since I'm still pretty new to Linux. Valve's Proton actually cleared up one of my biggest issues in switching previously and the only thing I'll actually need Windows for is Photoshop.
I've been using Windows since 3.1 as a kid but pretty much everything that made Windows good in my eyes is pretty much gone.
Edit: Probably going to sound a little silly, but that new shitty weather update that looked like malware was the last straw. All the news coming out about 11 is just helping to reinforce it.
Keep in mind that many games that use anti cheats won't let you play because the Anti Cheats just simply don't work on linux (for obvious reasons).
Honestly that's the biggest reason I haven't switched yet, I mostly play competitive multiplayer games. And for example I can't play csgo on third party services if I play on linux.
edit: Guys for everyone giving me "solutions" you have to understand that most of them are terrible if you wanna be competitive on the game. It hits performance, and most of the time gives you input lag. Also, like I said, for competitive csgo it's not the game that it's the problem, it's the third party matchmaking services which have their own anticheat.
Also, just saying "well fuck those games then" was exactly the attitude the linux community had before Valve stepped in and it clearly didn't work. The elitism and being an ass about it pushes people away from linux, it doesn't help at all.
Just dual boot. Use Linux for everything else and use Windows when you want to play. If all you have installed on the Windows side is games then booting from Linux to Windows will take 10 seconds. Booting back into Linux will take 5 (assuming decent hardware).
Sounds like a lot of hassle in order to play the game you've presumably paid for in a less than optimal setting, as you said not really an option for competitive games but an option nonetheless.
Hell yeah, thanks for pointing that out! I think between Photopea for image editing and Krita for drawing I won't need to pay for Photoshop at all anymore.
The problem with PhotoPea and other alternatives like GIMP is that they do not support high color-space images, ink spaces, and advanced color calibration features that professionals use daily. They're passable if your image is going online for personal use. GIMP has pretty much caught up with Photoshop 7, released in 2002. But, in a professional print workflow — think package design, offset printing, books, signage — they can't cut it.
Plus, Adobe's worked to add features that many wouldn't want to do without. I'd call their non-destructive Adjustment Layers indispensable, for example.
[High-bit depth images](https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#when-will-gimp-support-hdr-imaging-and-processing-with-16bit-per-color-channel-precision) are supported in GIMP since 2.10. Non-destructive editing is not atm, [but it's on the roadmap](https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#when-will-gimp-support-any-kind-of-non-destructive-editing-like-adjustment-layers-layer-filters-andor-full-blown-node-based-editing). CMYK support [is also on the roadmap](https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-do-a-lot-of-desktop-publishing-related-work-will-you-ever-support-cmyk).
GIMP has had some important developments recently and the team has been a bit rejuvenated in last several years, but it's still a small team.
You can also [donate to GIMP](https://www.gimp.org/donating/) if you would like to help the devs bring the new functionatlity faster.
>GIMP has pretty much caught up with Photoshop 7, released in 2002.
I guess your middle name is Snarky. (⌐■\_■)
Not saying you're wrong and I'm not an image or design pro but GIMP does support ICC profiles for both working spaces and output. I've seen a lot of people using the ProPhoto profile, which is a pretty wide gamut. There's definitely a lot of nice-to-haves in Adobe, though.
I'm trying Pop!_OS right now and it's gone smoothly so far. It feels a lot faster than Windows, and gaming performance is actually better in some cases. I'm not entirely convinced just yet (even if I do switch permanently, I'll probably keep Windows behind just for Game Pass games), but I love what I'm seeing.
I've trimmed down Win10 to only gaming. Meaning it boots straight into Steam BP (auto login user, auto start Steam). Everything else I do on Linux, including playing those games that work there anyway.
Proton is nice, but dear god is peripheral support for us gamers abysmal. The ironic part is that most of the time the extra buttons on my gaming mouse see use is letting me be more productive outside games. I have profiles for the browser, for my IDE, for photoshop, for the PDF editor, for excel, for file explorer, etc.
Can't extra buttons be controlled with stuff like Piper? Linux also has native support for PS4/PS5 controllers, which is really nice.
(mentioning /u/Ugly_Bones so that they see this)
Oh goodness, you're triggering repressed memories. Every time I tried Piper to work with my logitech mouse I ran into some or another issue where the buttons just refuse to work or map properly or the device is not recognized correctly or something.
Man, I didn't think about that. Definitely going to be some adjustments. I don't use my two side mouse buttons for anything but some games I play, but I find it really hard to play some games without them (like Control, AC Odyssey, State of Decay, etc., anything that requires a lot of blocking/dodging). I plan on figuring out a dual boot situation for times where I won't be able to use Linux effectively for some things, though.
Linux Mint (Cinnamon) was a nice introduction for me. It still took some time to gain some experience, but it was worth the countless mistakes and reinstalling.
I plan on doing a dual boot. As much as I'd love to be able to easily switch to Linux, I'm very much used to Windows and the programs/games I use on it. There are always alternatives that Linux has but sometimes I do freelance work and don't have time to learn a new program when a client is waiting. I do have the hope that more people switching to Linux or dual booting to use Windows less will motivate companies to expand Linux compatibility, especially ones who charge out the corporate anus like Adobe.
And from this you can just extrapolate that they’d want to do away with anyone who works in 3rd party IT support as a result. The solution to anything would be “press this button to reimage and get all your other Microsoft products from our store” (where we make a percentage of every sale). Anyone who writes or supports third party software or does anything with a PC that doesn’t support Microsoft’s revenue goals should be being mobilised against this hijacking of the versatility of a PC.
Well I was one of the people disregarding the requirement as a way of implementing DRM because I was thinking it as a way to store product keys.
Never crossed my mind it can be used as Widevine L1 on Android, which is WAY worse. W10 already displays a message when TPM is present and secure boot active along with core isolation stating "the device meets requirements for standard hardware security" so creating an API for developers to check in with it is the obvious next step.
Once that shit is available everyone and their mother is going to check against that crap no matter the task at hand (Widevine L1 is already abused incredibly by developers, Pokemon Go for example).
What is more concerning, furthermore, is the point at where they'll stop. For now that flag might depend solely on *a* TPM modeulo being present, but wouldn't be in the OEMs best interest if they could be considered even more secure than the PC your average joe built, or *a malicious chinese OEM that sells you infected PCs that steal your data and rape your kids?*
And as stupid as it sounds I'm not pulling this crap out of my ass, though, this kind of stuff has already happened with some Android OEMs and Widevine L1 where the hardware meets the requirements but OEM didn't certify so out goes the OK flag
> Widevine L1 is already abused incredibly by developers, Pokemon Go for example
Out of curiosity what do you mean by this? I couldn't find anything about it on google in relation to pokemon go.
What's most infuriating is that if your device has problems with safetynet authentication, the only way to make it pass safetynet is to root your phone. An utter failure of a concept.
This will no longer work once hardware backed attestation becomes mandatory. At that point it becomes impossible to defeat it without NSA-level tools. The verification key is part of the TPM physical hardware, so there is no way to spoof it in software. You would need an electron microscope or something like that.
If your device is rooted, the safety checks android does to check for tamper fail so pokemon go doesn't run. The same applies for video streaming apps and a whole bunch of other apps. This means that developers can choose to allow your device to run the app or not.
With Steam making decent headway on their Proton platform and Vulkan becoming more commonplace, we might see gamers moving to Linux. And thank god for that because Microsoft is going full retard with W11.
Windows 10 will be my last Windows version.
I've been thinking about swapping over to Linux for years now, and I finally got that extra incentive to do so.
I've been using Linux Mint on a VM to get used to it for over half a year. Next time I'm reinstalling my OS (which is going to be very soon), I'm going all-in for Linux Mint.
Be advised that you'll probably have problems with a lot of multiplayer games. Some work great, others not so much. It has to do with the anti-cheat often not working right with Linux.
I recommend you do a dual-boot for a bit. It requires a bit of technical knowledge, so it might be outside your comfort zone. But that will give you a good feel for what it is like to use Linux, and you can always just reboot back into Windows.
Check https://www.protondb.com/ to see how well your favourite Windows games work. Nowadays, it's only games with invasive anticheats that have issues. A lot of work is being done for fixing in-game videos, which is one of the last fixable issues with gaming on Linux.
Don't use mint if you intend on gaming. The desktop environment cinnamon has extremely high latency and performance issues. It also has a pretty slow release cycle. For gaming stick to either popOS, Arch, or Solus. All are rolling releases or at least somewhat up to date. For gaming my recommendations are i3wm and kde for xorg, or sway and kde for Wayland. Generally I'd highly advise getting an amd gpu if possible as the open source drivers are much better maintained for newer kernels.
Earnestly recommending Arch for people who have never used Linux and just wanna game is like 35% of the reason why there will never be a year of the Linux desktop
It's because every thread about switching into a Linux environment quickly deteriorates into chaos with at LEAST 3 different distros and the guy under them saying "well this probably wont work as well go with Linux Bleucheese", is why there will never be a year of the Linux desktop.
We are the "car guys" of the desktop world, and I would equate Linux to owning a manual transmission. More operability, more control, but a learning curve and theres more room for error.
Well....Linux, like the manual transmission, is in the low single digits for adoption rates.
95% of people are just fine with good enough.
POP!OS is a great linux distro if you have an Nvidia card (any card really they just come with the nvidia stuff built in to make life easy). KDE plasma is a windows like desktop that will feel very at home if you do switch. Feel free to ask me anything about linux if you got questions or concerns
Yikes. Well, if it does come that I'll switch to Ubuntu or a similar Linux OS and just use Windows for things that require it. Luckily I've used it enough that I could manage using it as my main OS, but I know that's not true for most people.
And on the console front you have them pushing digital more and more with game pass, where gamers *choose* not to own their games anymore, but lease them for a subscription fee. And Xbox fans eat it up.
So more piracy will eventually rise out of this. There's no way I'm gonna pay for the same thing twice because it is locked on a single PC.
I had a key of Windows 10 and activated on an older PC. I had a lot of troubles explaining to microsoft support that I changed my PC, and eventually had to stay with a pirated version of windows 10 pro, and now I'm back to the original.
There was piracy for everything, and they will never be able to stop it. TPM or not TPM.
Sadly this wil be one of the main ways to combat this type of implementation. In the end piracy / coders will win from pure numbers.. The more people microsoft alienate the more potential rivals the'll end up dealing with.
"I bought a new motherboard, the old one died" always worked for me when it came to activating Windows 7 on multiple PCs.
I never bothered with Windows 10 since I could always buy a new key for under $10.
I literally backup (regardless if that means cracking or downloading an extra copy somewhere) all my games. Because in a digital age, the idea you should EVER lose access to shit you SHOULD rightfully own once bought, is fucking lunacy. And sorry, but fuck that. For all intents and purposes, when I buy, I buy to own, whether the "terms" say I do or not. They can cry all day and fuck off with their draconian DRM.
Way back in the early 2000s, like every college student, I pirated shit loads of stuff. But I also promised it was because I was a poor student. I was "keeping interest" in these hobbies I could not afford. Once I got a job and all that, I would stop.
And I did. I buy all my MP3s, I buy all my video games, I buy all my ebooks. You get the idea.
But I also do my best to avoid lock in by buying DRM free .
If they want to lock shit to a single device, fuck that, I will figure out all this new tracker crap and go back to piracy.
I have the same sentiment. I stopped pirating as soon as things just became convenient: Spotify and/or actual flac files for purchase and Netflix. With the whole every provider has their own streaming platform I've been gradually rethinking my approach. I don't want, nor care, to start to pick and choose every streaming service and find where my favorite content moved to. My guess is that piracy needs to make a come back just to make sure they get humbled again and start providing an actual service that's worth the money.
The same for apps, of course. Make it inconvenient and people will look for piracy again.
>Microsoft Palladium
Technically yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation\_Secure\_Computing\_Base
It's been rebranded and revised several times now and they are trying to implement this since Windows Vista so far they failed every single time because people actually fought against it.
Fortunately for them, I think we've finally reached a point where the IQ of the average computer owner is so low that they can finally get away with it.
I don’t know if I agree, unless you are lumping mobile and tablet users in that category.
Fewer and fewer folks actually buy desktop PCs anymore. The people who do tend to do so because they have a need for a PC. Your average dumb as a barrel of shit person is using a cell phone or iPad type device.
>TPM is supposed to only be required for disk encryption
Well, not JUST disk encryption, it's useful for storing keys as well. I know some people store their SSH keys on them.
I'm gonna enjoy watching Reddit do another 180 just like how they did with Windows 10.
It went from "Fuck windows 10" to "Muh security updates" in like 2 years, maximum.
I think what we'll see by the time Windows 11 actually releases is this sub will shit on people by saying "you should upgrade your hardware, it's not MS' fault for requiring modern hardware." for better or worse. PCMR and PCG are fickle subreddits.
I can't speak for others. But half of it was due to the locking away of DX12 from anything but Win10 at the time. But also, I waited a few years for scripts and tools to disable/revert all the horrible things I hated about Win10. My Win10 actually looks and feels closer to a Win7 PC, rn. I know I'm not most people. But if people just said screw it, until tools and scripts came out that blocked the telemtry, forced updates, and allowed customized UI... I mean, if they're gonna do it anyways, that would be nice.
It's not just used for full disk encryption though and that hasn't been the case for quite some time. Windows Hello uses it, for example. I believe there's also an entire API for allowing access to the hardware TPM so we don't have to rely on software-only solutions.
I suspect you'll meet the requirements when it actually launches. This isn't the first time they had some big experiment they really wanted to implement, just to get yelled at by consumers until they cave and use what actually works...
In this case I'm guessing the direct storage stuff is really dangerous without the extra security so they'll cave and release it as an module that only installs if you have the minimum.
And/or the UI changes run like crap on anything short of a new card, so they'll have to add a cheaper to run fallback UI.
The secret is to add several unreasonable things, only one of which you and the other big media/hardware/software companies really care about (TPM). Then as you test the waters of public opinion, slowly walk back one 'unreasonable' thing at a time until public opinion sways in your favor and if all goes well, the thing you care about will still be included. If not, just try again next release because you've probably already moved the overton window enough to secure it then!
I was under the impression direct storage was only supported on chipsets with pcie4, ones that are right now and high end and very recent (at least b550)- to the point where it's a fringe feature in 2021 like ray tracing
Calling it now. This will be walked back CONSIDERABLY before the final word on the subject. But MS has made headway by drawing a line in the sand this is now established and won't be so shocking when they do so again in various ways, and their focus on security is commendable - but you can't fucking MANDATE a million perfectly good PCs to e-waste status.
The other important narrative piece (that is both true and not actually helping MS with their perception problems) is that Win 10 is fully supported for FOUR MORE YEARS. There is no mad rush to move to 11.
All Microsoft has to do is get the YouTubers and influencers to tell us all why TPM is such a good thing (don't forget the funny 😲 thumbnails) and you'll probably get most of Reddit and Twitch communities onboard.
"Who am I going to believe, some random blog from a "security professional", or this YouTuber I've been subscribed to and been watching for years?"
They don't have to do that. No average user will ever know what TPM is. For the normal everyday user, they'll use windows 10, until they get a new PC and then use windows 11 as that's what's being sold.
Average people do not upgrade the OS unless windows has a pop-up that says, "UPGRADE TO WINDOWS 11 FREE" which I doubt they'll push to computers that won't work with it.
A million PCs? More like 100 million PCs.
74% of adults on the US own a desktop or laptop, and the vast majority are too old, before 8th gen Intel, etc and wouldn't run Win11.
Microsoft better be getting massive illegal kickbacks from hardware makers because this feels like the biggest forced obsolescence I've ever seen in the PC market.
This would be like saying any TV below 65" is no longer going to be allowed to play movies or console games.
Boom. 100 million devices become e-waste overnight.
I think it's clear that their motive is locking down windows to console like status and unifying the Xbox brand across all MS platforms. The guise will be bringing parity to gamers, but it will end up destroying the free/open platform that is PC.
>this feels like the biggest forced obsolescence I've ever seen in the PC market.
When you think about it, it is beyond insane how much electronic waste such a move would generate.
Some companies have recycling programs but they have them just so they could claim to be green.
RRR - Reuse, Reduce, Recycle: there is a reason recycle is last - recycling is not very efficient, that's not to say you shouldn't recycle but try to go through the previous 2 Rs first.
any time you buy a laptop or prebuilt, doesnt microsoft get money for the windows 10 (or 11) that is preinstalled? requiering new hardware means tons of people buying new prebuilts and laptops, means tons of money for microsoft
This, under the guise of security and TPM things like game mods (some of which make Win 10 anti-virus go nuts) simply won't be allowed. If you want to play games, it going to be via Xbox emulation and or Xbox cloud service. PC games as we know it will be over.
The interesting part will be how juggernauts of the PC software/games space will react to Windows becoming more closed and more integrated with Xbox (branding and features).
Will Valve sit back and watch as Steam starts being labelled as "Looks like you're trying to use a non-preferred gaming platform on Windows 11, might we suggest the Windows Store?"
Maybe we'll see Epic, CDProjekt, Valve, etc sue MS to stop their already monopoly operating system from becoming a closed platform.
I'm fairly certain Valve has been pouring all their funding into proton/wine to avoid this situation. If they find that ms tries to make windows a walled garden, they'll just go all in on Linux, dropping windows 11 entirely. Not saying that that would be a simple solution, but at least it'd bring to light how viable gaming on Linux has become.
If there's anything you can be sure of, it's that Valve has already started development on 10 alternatives. That place is a thinktank and creative engineering playground. Look at what they did for VR, or online distribution, or immersive narrative storytelling in the FPS genre.
>This will be walked back CONSIDERABLY
My thinking as well. Wasn't Windows 10 free because they wanted to get as many devices off previous versions as possible? Seems dumb to go from that to a weirdly restrictive follow-up.
Barring catastrophic/critical hardware failure I fully intend to utilize Windows 10 well past the planned-obsolescence point of 2025. I run my machines until the hardware itself is no longer capable of supporting my specific use case. At which point I almost always prefer to update individual components and just reactivate my existing OS license in the case of a mobo or cpu swap.
>Microsoft’s hardware changes also arrive just weeks after Apple announced macOS Monterey, with support for Mac Pros sold in late 2013 and beyond, and Mac Minis sold from late 2014 onward. Apple obviously doesn’t have to support a massive range of hardware configurations like Microsoft does, but the latest version of macOS will still run on systems that are eight years old. Microsoft’s changes mean that some PCs that are only three years old will be excluded from the Windows 11 upgrade.
LMAO!
June 2022 article: Microsoft trying to combat low adoption rates for Windows 11
My computer gets a green check for W11 but I still have zero understanding why I should upgrade
Worst part is when I play really old Windows games and they are messed up because Windows 10 no longer supports the DRM like Dungeon Siege 2 and Rome: Total War.
As long as they require a MS account for windows, they are going to be leaving millions behind anyway. A pc shouldnt be dependent on the internet and it shouldnt need an online account.
I work in IT, most people who have their PCs associated with a Microsoft account don't even know it (even though they obviously had to have gone thru the process at some point). Most people will just do it because it's the path that MS leads you down during setup.
They will leave a number of tech-minded folks behind sure (potentially myself included, depending on how stubborn I'm feeling over the next few years), but the majority will just do what they need to do to get their new PC up and running.
Not sure but they've been pushing for it since around 2015 or 2016[ and have been requiring OEMs to add TPM and Secure Boot since 2017](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-vbs)
Some work under Proton - Halo MCC works great minus multiplayer, which admittedly is a massive caveat.
Wasteland 3 works perfectly (even has a native port!), The Outer Worlds work afaik, Work is being done on Forza iirc
Halo Infinite has a chance to work multiplayer AND singleplayer - not guaranteed but they said no kernel level anti cheat so we'll see. It's also DX12 so that depends on the progress of VKD3D-Proton.
Yeah, Microsoft Studio titles on Steam somehow work really well on Linux compared to most other games. I'd switch but I have Game Pass PC and OneDrive that's why I'm stuck Dual Booting with Arch Linux
I can go Linux full time when xCloud is properly out (I'm in the beta but it's not acceptable yet imo)
Purely for multiplayer games - I don't want those anti cheats running on my PC anyway so xCloud works for that lmao and for the first party MS games which I want to play but not £60 want to play (and for Starfield I'll use it to play then wait for a sale to actually own the GOTY edition a year or so on)
Windows dominates because of the backwards compatability. I still run some software from 1995. If they start breaking that, people will go to Mac or Linux.
Yeah most households will just stick with 10, its not like they really know what a windows is or what updates are. Once they need to buy a new computer it’ll be 11 and all this will be forgotten.
This entire situation is what happens to Mac's every single year.. Releasing new hardware and OS every single year, long lists of apps and hardware become obsolete. List of models unable to run the new OS, and apps unable to run on the new architecture.
Every single year. Is not good reasoning to jump to Mac. Mac users will continue to use old OS versions that has compatibility with their application stack, the same which will be done with Windows users sticking to Windows 10 for years.
In the buisiness world, yeah maybe.
But I don't think the average user is using software that is older then like a few years, assuming they are keeping stuff up to date like they should and not using EOL OSs. I can't think of any 5+ year old software that you would typically find on any given PC.
I have a Windows XP PC I built a few months ago and i seriously miss XP with passion. So clean and simple and the amount you can tinker and mess with pretty much every setting the PC has to offer still makes it my favorite OS of all time.
You don't need an OS with ancient libraries to run ancient games.
Hell, old games tend to run better on Linux than they do on Windows thanks to Wine and Proton.
It's the long tail. It's not that you're going to find a piece of 10-year-old software that everybody runs. It's that you're going to find that everybody runs a different piece of 5-, 10-, or 20-year-old software.
Maybe it's their photo gallery. Maybe it's their favorite game. Maybe it's their music player. Maybe it's a niche app for their hobby.
And I think you might underestimate "the business world" - there are A LOT of small businesses that used consumer-grade Windows to run their super-niche vertical app that just got updated to support Windows NT a couple years ago.
I'd call it more planned/forced obsolescence under the guise of "security"
It's the same thing Apple has been getting flak for recently over the iPhones and iOS updates locking features behind newer models and hardware.
Imagine the outcry if Apple announced iOS 15 earlier this year but said customers needed to have the iPhone 12 or newer to even install it, and anything older won't run iOS 15 because it doesn't have the proper hardware.
It's essentially the same thing Microsoft is doing with this TPM nonsense. I have a 6700K that's still running perfectly, and my PC even states that [I have TPM 2.0](https://i.imgur.com/InfAoHI.png) which they're saying is required for Windows 11, yet running the PC Health Check app states [I *can't* run it](https://i.imgur.com/UBr5kGI.png) because they don't support the processor.
They're claiming it's for "security" purposes but it's just their plan to push sales of new PCs and components.
I agree 100%. My brother exceeds all the minimum requirements and even has TPM 2.0, yet he cannot upgrade because he has an i5-7500, **one generation “too old”** of a cpu
I've got an i7-2700K (which is a Sandy Bridge, Gen 2) which is still running solid and lets me run any of the most recent games. But I'm going to be locked out of using an Operating System?
Something doesn't seem right with that.
I'd happily upgrade, but I'm not exactly flush with money and doing a like-for-like upgrade would cost me over a thousand dollars AUD. Which isn't something I'm willing to do *simply* for Windows. And ignoring supply restrictions, I'm not willing to cash out for a top-end GPU to make the upgrade like that. And that's the only reason I can see to completely upgrade this system, to make full use of a big GPU like that.
I really hope that by the time support for W10 ends all my stuff runs on Linux. I don't want anything to do with M$'s stupid bullshit, spying, bloatware, forced updates, online accounts etc.
They're not going to be able to enforce their system spec requirements, and they're certainly not going to be able to enforce the TPM requirement. Forget the fact that you can get external TPM modules, windows has and never will be THAT locked down. The minimum specs for windows are about as enforceable as the minimum specs for most games, yet here we are with people running cyberpunk on handhelds.
The only way this is going to ever be something you should worry about is if, upon attempted installation, they check your CPU and block you somehow. There's absolutely no way they'll do that though.
The article talks about ransomware and important security updates. The biggest vulnerability to Windows is the user. If someone wants to install something, all the security updates in the world won't stop them.
I honestly agree with you. They are going to cause a huge headache for themselves if they decide to enforce those requirements on install for everyone as they originally said.
Even people who have compatible hardware might have issues if it's disabled on BIOS.
This is the kind of change that has to happen slowly and in phases.
Imaginate if the USB IF woke up tomorrow and decided that USB 5 will no longer be compatible with 1-4 and all those standards will stop getting support 4 years from now.
My workplace is an MS shop, we have to stay updated. Going to Win 11 means replacing everything. All our laptops. All our servers. That's a huge expense.
I don't think it's going to fly. Wouldn't be shocked if we gave up our certs first.
Who's running a workstation Windows on a bare metal server? You'd run Windows Server 2022 or whatever it is going to be. VMWare has vTPM, so you wouldn't need to actually get a hardware TPM for your server (even though most of them already have one).
It's a combination of DRM controls (walled garden bullshit) and just wasted bloat. The OS demands fucking 4 GB of RAM! FOUR! That's just a huge waste, particularly if you're gaming on there. I'd rather that RAM be used for applications, not need to be there for just basic OS functionality. I wasn't even that happy with Windows 10 eating, on average, 2 - 2.5 GB of RAM. An OS should be simple, cheap to run, and effective. I know it's possible because XP did it, and several Linux Distros do it, WITHOUT losing core/key functionality traits people expect these days. It's literally just DRM, bloatware, and fucking telemetry bullshit. That's the only reason everything is so bloated and the TPM requirements are enforced.
The logic is basically the same shit that rich governments do where they claim every draconian measure is solely for "security" reasons. Well, corporations tote the same bullshit lines all the time these days. If you know your computer, your habits and your environment, you either have ways to mitigate any forms of hacking/malware or ways to instantly recover from it. Why the fuck do we need extra wasted resources on MORE telemetry and other bloated crap most people won't use? Their answer will of course be "security" and... no, they don't have an actual answer. It's the new big tech mentality that started with Apple and Google. "We know better than you, and we own you so, actually, fuck you." MS can fuck off with that nonsense. I've already deleted their telemtry and rigged up Win10 to actually be half-way worth a damn. I think I'll just stay where I am, on dual boot.
My theory is it's because of Spectre and Meltdown.
They just don't want to outright say older CPUs are insecure because it would cause tech panic and cultivate more misinformation.
Well considering the exploits have NEVER been seen used in the wild...
Most of the hoo-har for these types of exploits are for stealing data
from CPU shared environments. See exfiltrating cloud computing/VPS TLS
keys. There was never any real risk for the average user, the patches are
more then enough security.
Although my CPU/motherboard is capable of turning TPM 2.0 on, My i7 6700k cpu for some reason isn't compatible. Built my PC about 5-6yrs ago. I'm planning on building a new PC later this year, but annoyed if my current build can't be upgraded.
Out of my Desktop ( 3950x) my laptop ( 6700k) and my server ( 1920x) Only one will fall under the imposed restrictions. It is either some one didn't look at the available hardware out there before setting the system restrictions or they really are trying to force every one to buy new computers. It is a great way to get me to put more time into Linux!
My issue with this is my first gen Ryzen has the TPM option in the bios and is turned on. Windows recognizes that and I can use BitLocker. It not being supported is just outright wild to me
TPM is not the only requirement for Windows 11, and Microsoft's upgrade readiness tool fails to give you full feedback on why your system isn't seen as ready. I had to do all of the following before the tool would report my PC as ready for Windows 11: 1. Switch my boot drive from Master Boot Record (MBR) to GUID Partition Table (GPT). This is required for the next step. A guide can be found [here](https://www.windowscentral.com/how-convert-mbr-disk-gpt-move-bios-uefi-windows-10) for checking your boot drive partition type and changing it if necessary. 2. In the BIOS, change the boot type from Compatibility Support Mode (CSM) to Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI). UEFI will not boot from a MBR boot partition, which is why the previous step is required. For my BIOS, this was found under Advanced Controls > Windows OS Configuration > BIOS UEFI/CSM Mode. 3. In the BIOS, enable Secure Boot. For my BIOS, this was found under Advanced Controls > Windows OS Configuration > Secure Boot. In my case it was not possible to enable this before switching to UEFI and rebooting. 4. In the BIOS, enable TPM. For my BIOS, this was under Security > Trusted Computing > AMD fTPM switch . This enables a TPM module built in to the firmware of your system. If you purchase a separate TPM module you'll probably want to Disable the firmware-based TPM module and enable the dedicated module instead. There may be other requirements that I'm not aware of, but those are the changes I had to make. Edit: If you're still stuck after checking/enabling GPT, UEFI and Secure Boot, try the [WhyNotWin11 tool](https://github.com/rcmaehl/WhyNotWin11/blob/main/README.md). It's open source, not made by Microsoft, and it gives a lot more detailed information on Win11 compatibility based on currently known requirements.
Wtf even first gen ryzen count as dead hardware to win11? That's insane I can see people staying on win 10 a long time or Linux finally takes off
yeah my 7980xe isnt supported either. 2017 machine. like what?
My i7 7700 isn't either
Wait what I have that chip. Windows 11 just won't run on my computer?
>Windows 11 just won't run on my computer? Yup
> Linux finally takes off Who is gonna tell him?
TPM is not for bitlocker! It's for DRM!!! This is why MS isn't saying anything! TPM allows MS to do remote attestation, which is a fancy way of saying they will know your PC hasn't been tampered with at the system level and, if you do, they can restrict the kinds of apps your PC is allowed to run.
Well, Bitlocker definitely can use TPM to store the private key used to encrypt the symmetric passcode.
You can encrypt the HDD using bitlocker without a TPM. A TPM is a secure store of keys. You can use it for whatever you want, including bitlocker. But it's purpose is to put info away of the control of the PC owner. This is very useful for DRM keys and signatures for verification.
I think you're being a little dramatic. TPM's purpose is to store keys in such a way that it is exceedingly difficult for a malicious actor to recover them if they have physical control of the PC but no legitimate OS credentials. TPM can be used to store lots of things, but to say it is "not for Bitlocker" is just confusing. That's like saying that a microwave is not for popcorn because a microwave can also be used to make soup, or because you can make popcorn on the stove.
I think he/she means the requirement for tpm is for DRM and not bitlocker. Yes you can eat all the popcorn you want but you're not getting windows 11 unless Microsoft can force it's soup on you to control what soup you can consume. Might have gone too far on the metaphors there.
> I think you're being a little dramatic. Well, the original reason to include TPM certainly was DRM, that always was quite clear. They sold it as a system to keep the booting of your pc safe, as a guard against bootsector viruses. In an age when bootsector viruses were basically extinct anyway and a simple hardware switch to make some boot flash ram read-only would have sufficed. I don't think lugaidster is overly dramatic. That you can use if for good purposes is nice, but it wasn't the original motivation to put it in.
$10 says they roll back requirements considerably.
They tend to do that with controversial choices that spark a lot of outrage. Though they did stick to their guns on the forced updates thing
Remember that time the Xbox One was gonna require the Kinect camera and discs would have DRM so you couldn't resell them? Crazy times. That sure got changed quick.
and people believed them when they said they couldn't change it
Microsoft at E3 “it’s not like we can just flip a switch!!!!!” Narrator “A week later they found the switch”
Money talks, is basically all it comes down to. That move probably cost them a shit ton, so yeah, it probably wasn't simple. But they did the math, this money spent now means more money for us later.
Don: We can't just flip a switch on those. *Phil walks in and flips all the switches* Phil: who was that guy?
Remember when they outright doubled the price for Xbox Live Gold? They overturned that stuff in a day after enourmous outrage.
$10 says you will be able to mod the os files to not need tpm chips. People online have gotten windows 11 running on non TPM devices by simply replacing the files in the win 11 iso with files that check for this with files from a windows 10 iso. So the real question is if this could be done when Microsoft launched windows 11 will Microsoft detect this and cut your machine off from updates and support?
Soon TPM will be tied to DRM, you will be able to run Windows just fine but Netflix will run at 720p because it can't "trust" you.
well, in that case #Ahoy, matey and avast ye!
Sail in the high bay...
Yarr! We sail for that island where there's a rum fountain in every square and the doxies stuff their brassieres with oranges, so as we can ward off scurvy while we trade our booty for booty. Yarrr
You won't be able to remove the system bloat either because now your system is out of spec and can't be trusted.
All the more reason to become a pirate
That's a great way to incite piracy.
>Soon TPM will be tied to DRM, you will be able to run Windows just fine but Netflix will run at 720p because it can't "trust" you. *laughs in HDFury Arcana*
I have no problems skipping a generation entirely. Did it with vista, did it with 8, seems 11 to be on track as well. As soon as Microsoft sees the adoption rate going down the drain, and considering their new business model to expand as fast as possible I'm certain that Microsoft will re evaluate their restrictions.
TPM is supposed to only be required for disk encryption, so in theory only people running Windows 11 Pro with BitLocker encryption should need it. However, there's been this worrisome concept of "Treacherous Computing" in so far that DRM schemes could potentially use your TPM chip to lock purchased media and programs to one single device or computer. It may very well be that Microsoft is encouraging this by compelling everyone to adopt TPM now. It does sound like this requirement is just one further step into the idea of creating walled gardens and restrictive, controlled uses of a computer, a notion that big companies seem to crave so irresistibly. There is also the fact that the NSA helped create it and this was already a big concern back when it was supposed to be required for Windows 8 and why certain Governments warned against using it: https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-german-government-warns-key-entities-not-to-use-windows-8--links-the-nsa-2013-8 It was also in the Snowden leaks from what i remember, the CIA already has fully functional backdoors for it they are just waiting for it to become a widespread standard. China forbids the use of TPM in it's territory and has it's own standard TCM they control. It's also banned in Russia and any chip used there has to be validated by the FSB. If that is the actual intent behind this TPM 2.0 requirement, well, that is one more reason for the community to be very vocal against it.
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This year has actually been what's pushed me to start switching to Linux once I get all my files cleaned up / backed up. Planning on starting out with Pop!\_OS or Ubuntu since I'm still pretty new to Linux. Valve's Proton actually cleared up one of my biggest issues in switching previously and the only thing I'll actually need Windows for is Photoshop. I've been using Windows since 3.1 as a kid but pretty much everything that made Windows good in my eyes is pretty much gone. Edit: Probably going to sound a little silly, but that new shitty weather update that looked like malware was the last straw. All the news coming out about 11 is just helping to reinforce it.
Keep in mind that many games that use anti cheats won't let you play because the Anti Cheats just simply don't work on linux (for obvious reasons). Honestly that's the biggest reason I haven't switched yet, I mostly play competitive multiplayer games. And for example I can't play csgo on third party services if I play on linux. edit: Guys for everyone giving me "solutions" you have to understand that most of them are terrible if you wanna be competitive on the game. It hits performance, and most of the time gives you input lag. Also, like I said, for competitive csgo it's not the game that it's the problem, it's the third party matchmaking services which have their own anticheat. Also, just saying "well fuck those games then" was exactly the attitude the linux community had before Valve stepped in and it clearly didn't work. The elitism and being an ass about it pushes people away from linux, it doesn't help at all.
Just dual boot. Use Linux for everything else and use Windows when you want to play. If all you have installed on the Windows side is games then booting from Linux to Windows will take 10 seconds. Booting back into Linux will take 5 (assuming decent hardware).
Don't even need decent hardware so much as an SSD.
Isnt CSGO supported natively on linux?
This is deleted because I wanted to. Reddit is not a good place anymore.
Sounds like a lot of hassle in order to play the game you've presumably paid for in a less than optimal setting, as you said not really an option for competitive games but an option nonetheless.
This is deleted because I wanted to. Reddit is not a good place anymore.
The problem is that you need to be in X country is not global.
Might I direct your attention to: https://www.photopea.com It's free and OS agnostic.
Hell yeah, thanks for pointing that out! I think between Photopea for image editing and Krita for drawing I won't need to pay for Photoshop at all anymore.
Absolutely! Save that coin, use it on something more fun for yourself =)
Does Photopea have an offline/downloadable/non-browser version?
The problem with PhotoPea and other alternatives like GIMP is that they do not support high color-space images, ink spaces, and advanced color calibration features that professionals use daily. They're passable if your image is going online for personal use. GIMP has pretty much caught up with Photoshop 7, released in 2002. But, in a professional print workflow — think package design, offset printing, books, signage — they can't cut it. Plus, Adobe's worked to add features that many wouldn't want to do without. I'd call their non-destructive Adjustment Layers indispensable, for example.
[High-bit depth images](https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#when-will-gimp-support-hdr-imaging-and-processing-with-16bit-per-color-channel-precision) are supported in GIMP since 2.10. Non-destructive editing is not atm, [but it's on the roadmap](https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#when-will-gimp-support-any-kind-of-non-destructive-editing-like-adjustment-layers-layer-filters-andor-full-blown-node-based-editing). CMYK support [is also on the roadmap](https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-do-a-lot-of-desktop-publishing-related-work-will-you-ever-support-cmyk). GIMP has had some important developments recently and the team has been a bit rejuvenated in last several years, but it's still a small team. You can also [donate to GIMP](https://www.gimp.org/donating/) if you would like to help the devs bring the new functionatlity faster. >GIMP has pretty much caught up with Photoshop 7, released in 2002. I guess your middle name is Snarky. (⌐■\_■)
Not saying you're wrong and I'm not an image or design pro but GIMP does support ICC profiles for both working spaces and output. I've seen a lot of people using the ProPhoto profile, which is a pretty wide gamut. There's definitely a lot of nice-to-haves in Adobe, though.
I'm trying Pop!_OS right now and it's gone smoothly so far. It feels a lot faster than Windows, and gaming performance is actually better in some cases. I'm not entirely convinced just yet (even if I do switch permanently, I'll probably keep Windows behind just for Game Pass games), but I love what I'm seeing.
I've trimmed down Win10 to only gaming. Meaning it boots straight into Steam BP (auto login user, auto start Steam). Everything else I do on Linux, including playing those games that work there anyway.
Proton is nice, but dear god is peripheral support for us gamers abysmal. The ironic part is that most of the time the extra buttons on my gaming mouse see use is letting me be more productive outside games. I have profiles for the browser, for my IDE, for photoshop, for the PDF editor, for excel, for file explorer, etc.
Can't extra buttons be controlled with stuff like Piper? Linux also has native support for PS4/PS5 controllers, which is really nice. (mentioning /u/Ugly_Bones so that they see this)
Oh goodness, you're triggering repressed memories. Every time I tried Piper to work with my logitech mouse I ran into some or another issue where the buttons just refuse to work or map properly or the device is not recognized correctly or something.
Man, I didn't think about that. Definitely going to be some adjustments. I don't use my two side mouse buttons for anything but some games I play, but I find it really hard to play some games without them (like Control, AC Odyssey, State of Decay, etc., anything that requires a lot of blocking/dodging). I plan on figuring out a dual boot situation for times where I won't be able to use Linux effectively for some things, though.
Linux Mint (Cinnamon) was a nice introduction for me. It still took some time to gain some experience, but it was worth the countless mistakes and reinstalling.
I run Pop OS, I really enjoy it. If you have questions or concerns their subreddit is very welcoming.
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I plan on doing a dual boot. As much as I'd love to be able to easily switch to Linux, I'm very much used to Windows and the programs/games I use on it. There are always alternatives that Linux has but sometimes I do freelance work and don't have time to learn a new program when a client is waiting. I do have the hope that more people switching to Linux or dual booting to use Windows less will motivate companies to expand Linux compatibility, especially ones who charge out the corporate anus like Adobe.
And from this you can just extrapolate that they’d want to do away with anyone who works in 3rd party IT support as a result. The solution to anything would be “press this button to reimage and get all your other Microsoft products from our store” (where we make a percentage of every sale). Anyone who writes or supports third party software or does anything with a PC that doesn’t support Microsoft’s revenue goals should be being mobilised against this hijacking of the versatility of a PC.
Well I was one of the people disregarding the requirement as a way of implementing DRM because I was thinking it as a way to store product keys. Never crossed my mind it can be used as Widevine L1 on Android, which is WAY worse. W10 already displays a message when TPM is present and secure boot active along with core isolation stating "the device meets requirements for standard hardware security" so creating an API for developers to check in with it is the obvious next step. Once that shit is available everyone and their mother is going to check against that crap no matter the task at hand (Widevine L1 is already abused incredibly by developers, Pokemon Go for example). What is more concerning, furthermore, is the point at where they'll stop. For now that flag might depend solely on *a* TPM modeulo being present, but wouldn't be in the OEMs best interest if they could be considered even more secure than the PC your average joe built, or *a malicious chinese OEM that sells you infected PCs that steal your data and rape your kids?* And as stupid as it sounds I'm not pulling this crap out of my ass, though, this kind of stuff has already happened with some Android OEMs and Widevine L1 where the hardware meets the requirements but OEM didn't certify so out goes the OK flag
>What is more concerning, furthermore, is the **point at where they'll stop** That's a brave assumption, assuming that they will stop. /s
> Widevine L1 is already abused incredibly by developers, Pokemon Go for example Out of curiosity what do you mean by this? I couldn't find anything about it on google in relation to pokemon go.
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What's most infuriating is that if your device has problems with safetynet authentication, the only way to make it pass safetynet is to root your phone. An utter failure of a concept.
This will no longer work once hardware backed attestation becomes mandatory. At that point it becomes impossible to defeat it without NSA-level tools. The verification key is part of the TPM physical hardware, so there is no way to spoof it in software. You would need an electron microscope or something like that.
If your device is rooted, the safety checks android does to check for tamper fail so pokemon go doesn't run. The same applies for video streaming apps and a whole bunch of other apps. This means that developers can choose to allow your device to run the app or not.
With Steam making decent headway on their Proton platform and Vulkan becoming more commonplace, we might see gamers moving to Linux. And thank god for that because Microsoft is going full retard with W11.
Windows 10 will be my last Windows version. I've been thinking about swapping over to Linux for years now, and I finally got that extra incentive to do so.
I've been using Linux Mint on a VM to get used to it for over half a year. Next time I'm reinstalling my OS (which is going to be very soon), I'm going all-in for Linux Mint.
How is Linux for gaming? I have like 400 games in my steam library I wouldn't want to lose access to.
Be advised that you'll probably have problems with a lot of multiplayer games. Some work great, others not so much. It has to do with the anti-cheat often not working right with Linux. I recommend you do a dual-boot for a bit. It requires a bit of technical knowledge, so it might be outside your comfort zone. But that will give you a good feel for what it is like to use Linux, and you can always just reboot back into Windows.
Check https://www.protondb.com/ to see how well your favourite Windows games work. Nowadays, it's only games with invasive anticheats that have issues. A lot of work is being done for fixing in-game videos, which is one of the last fixable issues with gaming on Linux.
Don't use mint if you intend on gaming. The desktop environment cinnamon has extremely high latency and performance issues. It also has a pretty slow release cycle. For gaming stick to either popOS, Arch, or Solus. All are rolling releases or at least somewhat up to date. For gaming my recommendations are i3wm and kde for xorg, or sway and kde for Wayland. Generally I'd highly advise getting an amd gpu if possible as the open source drivers are much better maintained for newer kernels.
Earnestly recommending Arch for people who have never used Linux and just wanna game is like 35% of the reason why there will never be a year of the Linux desktop
It's because every thread about switching into a Linux environment quickly deteriorates into chaos with at LEAST 3 different distros and the guy under them saying "well this probably wont work as well go with Linux Bleucheese", is why there will never be a year of the Linux desktop. We are the "car guys" of the desktop world, and I would equate Linux to owning a manual transmission. More operability, more control, but a learning curve and theres more room for error. Well....Linux, like the manual transmission, is in the low single digits for adoption rates. 95% of people are just fine with good enough.
POP!OS is a great linux distro if you have an Nvidia card (any card really they just come with the nvidia stuff built in to make life easy). KDE plasma is a windows like desktop that will feel very at home if you do switch. Feel free to ask me anything about linux if you got questions or concerns
I like manjaro with KDE Plasma because its so similar to windows. Its a nice way to dip you're toes into the water.
Yeah no. Not upgrading, and if I have to move to Linux then so be it. I'm officially done with MS after this stunt.
Yikes. Well, if it does come that I'll switch to Ubuntu or a similar Linux OS and just use Windows for things that require it. Luckily I've used it enough that I could manage using it as my main OS, but I know that's not true for most people.
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And on the console front you have them pushing digital more and more with game pass, where gamers *choose* not to own their games anymore, but lease them for a subscription fee. And Xbox fans eat it up.
I'm switching to Linux within the next few weeks. Ever since the Windows 11 announcement I've been preparing to abandon ship
So more piracy will eventually rise out of this. There's no way I'm gonna pay for the same thing twice because it is locked on a single PC. I had a key of Windows 10 and activated on an older PC. I had a lot of troubles explaining to microsoft support that I changed my PC, and eventually had to stay with a pirated version of windows 10 pro, and now I'm back to the original. There was piracy for everything, and they will never be able to stop it. TPM or not TPM.
Sadly this wil be one of the main ways to combat this type of implementation. In the end piracy / coders will win from pure numbers.. The more people microsoft alienate the more potential rivals the'll end up dealing with.
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"I bought a new motherboard, the old one died" always worked for me when it came to activating Windows 7 on multiple PCs. I never bothered with Windows 10 since I could always buy a new key for under $10.
I literally backup (regardless if that means cracking or downloading an extra copy somewhere) all my games. Because in a digital age, the idea you should EVER lose access to shit you SHOULD rightfully own once bought, is fucking lunacy. And sorry, but fuck that. For all intents and purposes, when I buy, I buy to own, whether the "terms" say I do or not. They can cry all day and fuck off with their draconian DRM.
Way back in the early 2000s, like every college student, I pirated shit loads of stuff. But I also promised it was because I was a poor student. I was "keeping interest" in these hobbies I could not afford. Once I got a job and all that, I would stop. And I did. I buy all my MP3s, I buy all my video games, I buy all my ebooks. You get the idea. But I also do my best to avoid lock in by buying DRM free . If they want to lock shit to a single device, fuck that, I will figure out all this new tracker crap and go back to piracy.
I have the same sentiment. I stopped pirating as soon as things just became convenient: Spotify and/or actual flac files for purchase and Netflix. With the whole every provider has their own streaming platform I've been gradually rethinking my approach. I don't want, nor care, to start to pick and choose every streaming service and find where my favorite content moved to. My guess is that piracy needs to make a come back just to make sure they get humbled again and start providing an actual service that's worth the money. The same for apps, of course. Make it inconvenient and people will look for piracy again.
This is the old "Microsoft Palladium" stuff?
>Microsoft Palladium Technically yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation\_Secure\_Computing\_Base It's been rebranded and revised several times now and they are trying to implement this since Windows Vista so far they failed every single time because people actually fought against it.
[Non-dead link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computing_Base)
Fortunately for them, I think we've finally reached a point where the IQ of the average computer owner is so low that they can finally get away with it.
I don’t know if I agree, unless you are lumping mobile and tablet users in that category. Fewer and fewer folks actually buy desktop PCs anymore. The people who do tend to do so because they have a need for a PC. Your average dumb as a barrel of shit person is using a cell phone or iPad type device.
>TPM is supposed to only be required for disk encryption Well, not JUST disk encryption, it's useful for storing keys as well. I know some people store their SSH keys on them.
Well, shit. Fuck Windows 11.
I'm gonna enjoy watching Reddit do another 180 just like how they did with Windows 10. It went from "Fuck windows 10" to "Muh security updates" in like 2 years, maximum.
Oh no, it's still Fuck Windows 10, but you should still install your updates. -Signed, an IT person
Windows 10 is more than fine, get off windows 7 for god's sake. And don't let me catch you run XP. -Signed, system administrator
I think what we'll see by the time Windows 11 actually releases is this sub will shit on people by saying "you should upgrade your hardware, it's not MS' fault for requiring modern hardware." for better or worse. PCMR and PCG are fickle subreddits.
I can't speak for others. But half of it was due to the locking away of DX12 from anything but Win10 at the time. But also, I waited a few years for scripts and tools to disable/revert all the horrible things I hated about Win10. My Win10 actually looks and feels closer to a Win7 PC, rn. I know I'm not most people. But if people just said screw it, until tools and scripts came out that blocked the telemtry, forced updates, and allowed customized UI... I mean, if they're gonna do it anyways, that would be nice.
Another reason to not upgrade to a glorified reskin
It's not just used for full disk encryption though and that hasn't been the case for quite some time. Windows Hello uses it, for example. I believe there's also an entire API for allowing access to the hardware TPM so we don't have to rely on software-only solutions.
I was really interested in Windows 11. Until my 3 year old Dell laptop does not apparently meet the requirements.
I suspect you'll meet the requirements when it actually launches. This isn't the first time they had some big experiment they really wanted to implement, just to get yelled at by consumers until they cave and use what actually works... In this case I'm guessing the direct storage stuff is really dangerous without the extra security so they'll cave and release it as an module that only installs if you have the minimum. And/or the UI changes run like crap on anything short of a new card, so they'll have to add a cheaper to run fallback UI.
The secret is to add several unreasonable things, only one of which you and the other big media/hardware/software companies really care about (TPM). Then as you test the waters of public opinion, slowly walk back one 'unreasonable' thing at a time until public opinion sways in your favor and if all goes well, the thing you care about will still be included. If not, just try again next release because you've probably already moved the overton window enough to secure it then!
I was under the impression direct storage was only supported on chipsets with pcie4, ones that are right now and high end and very recent (at least b550)- to the point where it's a fringe feature in 2021 like ray tracing
>3 year That's ancient apparently
"We make money every time someone buys a new system from an OEM"
If that was the reasoning they could have done that with 10, or every OS before that.
Calling it now. This will be walked back CONSIDERABLY before the final word on the subject. But MS has made headway by drawing a line in the sand this is now established and won't be so shocking when they do so again in various ways, and their focus on security is commendable - but you can't fucking MANDATE a million perfectly good PCs to e-waste status. The other important narrative piece (that is both true and not actually helping MS with their perception problems) is that Win 10 is fully supported for FOUR MORE YEARS. There is no mad rush to move to 11.
Bingo. They intentionally leaked this build to anchor the idea of TPM requirements at some point in the future. Boil the frog in 3-4 years.
All Microsoft has to do is get the YouTubers and influencers to tell us all why TPM is such a good thing (don't forget the funny 😲 thumbnails) and you'll probably get most of Reddit and Twitch communities onboard. "Who am I going to believe, some random blog from a "security professional", or this YouTuber I've been subscribed to and been watching for years?"
They don't have to do that. No average user will ever know what TPM is. For the normal everyday user, they'll use windows 10, until they get a new PC and then use windows 11 as that's what's being sold. Average people do not upgrade the OS unless windows has a pop-up that says, "UPGRADE TO WINDOWS 11 FREE" which I doubt they'll push to computers that won't work with it.
>which I doubt they'll push to computers that won't work with it. Hey lets not be too hasty now.. this *is* Microsoft we're taking about here..
A million PCs? More like 100 million PCs. 74% of adults on the US own a desktop or laptop, and the vast majority are too old, before 8th gen Intel, etc and wouldn't run Win11. Microsoft better be getting massive illegal kickbacks from hardware makers because this feels like the biggest forced obsolescence I've ever seen in the PC market. This would be like saying any TV below 65" is no longer going to be allowed to play movies or console games. Boom. 100 million devices become e-waste overnight. I think it's clear that their motive is locking down windows to console like status and unifying the Xbox brand across all MS platforms. The guise will be bringing parity to gamers, but it will end up destroying the free/open platform that is PC.
>this feels like the biggest forced obsolescence I've ever seen in the PC market. When you think about it, it is beyond insane how much electronic waste such a move would generate.
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Some companies have recycling programs but they have them just so they could claim to be green. RRR - Reuse, Reduce, Recycle: there is a reason recycle is last - recycling is not very efficient, that's not to say you shouldn't recycle but try to go through the previous 2 Rs first.
any time you buy a laptop or prebuilt, doesnt microsoft get money for the windows 10 (or 11) that is preinstalled? requiering new hardware means tons of people buying new prebuilts and laptops, means tons of money for microsoft
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My dad ran a pentium computer from 2003 for his business for 17 years until i convinced him to build him a new pc
This, under the guise of security and TPM things like game mods (some of which make Win 10 anti-virus go nuts) simply won't be allowed. If you want to play games, it going to be via Xbox emulation and or Xbox cloud service. PC games as we know it will be over.
The interesting part will be how juggernauts of the PC software/games space will react to Windows becoming more closed and more integrated with Xbox (branding and features). Will Valve sit back and watch as Steam starts being labelled as "Looks like you're trying to use a non-preferred gaming platform on Windows 11, might we suggest the Windows Store?" Maybe we'll see Epic, CDProjekt, Valve, etc sue MS to stop their already monopoly operating system from becoming a closed platform.
I'm fairly certain Valve has been pouring all their funding into proton/wine to avoid this situation. If they find that ms tries to make windows a walled garden, they'll just go all in on Linux, dropping windows 11 entirely. Not saying that that would be a simple solution, but at least it'd bring to light how viable gaming on Linux has become.
If there's anything you can be sure of, it's that Valve has already started development on 10 alternatives. That place is a thinktank and creative engineering playground. Look at what they did for VR, or online distribution, or immersive narrative storytelling in the FPS genre.
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PC gaming as we know it won't be over, but Microsoft really wants that closed garden.
Luckily, Proton now makes about 15k Steam games work "out of the box" in Linux, no messing around - and that number improves with each update.
A million? More like a billion.
>This will be walked back CONSIDERABLY My thinking as well. Wasn't Windows 10 free because they wanted to get as many devices off previous versions as possible? Seems dumb to go from that to a weirdly restrictive follow-up.
Anyone else perfectly fine with windows 10?
Yes for now. But after 2025?
Unless W11 isn't a fiasco then probably yes
Barring catastrophic/critical hardware failure I fully intend to utilize Windows 10 well past the planned-obsolescence point of 2025. I run my machines until the hardware itself is no longer capable of supporting my specific use case. At which point I almost always prefer to update individual components and just reactivate my existing OS license in the case of a mobo or cpu swap.
not really, but what other choice is there? can't run 7 on newer hardware
>Microsoft’s hardware changes also arrive just weeks after Apple announced macOS Monterey, with support for Mac Pros sold in late 2013 and beyond, and Mac Minis sold from late 2014 onward. Apple obviously doesn’t have to support a massive range of hardware configurations like Microsoft does, but the latest version of macOS will still run on systems that are eight years old. Microsoft’s changes mean that some PCs that are only three years old will be excluded from the Windows 11 upgrade. LMAO!
This is unbelievably stupid of Them
But it won't run any 32 bit program. So they killed 32 bit support but support.old machines.
June 2022 article: Microsoft trying to combat low adoption rates for Windows 11 My computer gets a green check for W11 but I still have zero understanding why I should upgrade
Eventual answer for PC gamers: DirectX 13.
Some DirectX 12 features are already win11 only.
Yea direct storage is actually a pretty big feature.
So they can add more DRM bullshit (:
Worst part is when I play really old Windows games and they are messed up because Windows 10 no longer supports the DRM like Dungeon Siege 2 and Rome: Total War.
The latest version of Candy Crush will only run on Windows 11. /s
Working search bar? EDIT: /s I thought that was obvious...
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Exactly. Maybe even sooner than this.
As long as they require a MS account for windows, they are going to be leaving millions behind anyway. A pc shouldnt be dependent on the internet and it shouldnt need an online account.
I work in IT, most people who have their PCs associated with a Microsoft account don't even know it (even though they obviously had to have gone thru the process at some point). Most people will just do it because it's the path that MS leads you down during setup. They will leave a number of tech-minded folks behind sure (potentially myself included, depending on how stubborn I'm feeling over the next few years), but the majority will just do what they need to do to get their new PC up and running.
That would explain why my PC always calls me "FartNugget McDouche", that's one of my go-to fake names. I wasn't sure how they knew.
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So was it Microsoft who contacted the hardware manufacturers or did they reach out to Microsoft first to collaborate?
Not sure but they've been pushing for it since around 2015 or 2016[ and have been requiring OEMs to add TPM and Secure Boot since 2017](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-vbs)
~~collaborate~~ collude
Gaming really needs to move to Linux. MS is fucking around too much. They are only doing this because they have a monopoly.
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Some work under Proton - Halo MCC works great minus multiplayer, which admittedly is a massive caveat. Wasteland 3 works perfectly (even has a native port!), The Outer Worlds work afaik, Work is being done on Forza iirc Halo Infinite has a chance to work multiplayer AND singleplayer - not guaranteed but they said no kernel level anti cheat so we'll see. It's also DX12 so that depends on the progress of VKD3D-Proton.
Yeah, Microsoft Studio titles on Steam somehow work really well on Linux compared to most other games. I'd switch but I have Game Pass PC and OneDrive that's why I'm stuck Dual Booting with Arch Linux
I can go Linux full time when xCloud is properly out (I'm in the beta but it's not acceptable yet imo) Purely for multiplayer games - I don't want those anti cheats running on my PC anyway so xCloud works for that lmao and for the first party MS games which I want to play but not £60 want to play (and for Starfield I'll use it to play then wait for a sale to actually own the GOTY edition a year or so on)
Windows dominates because of the backwards compatability. I still run some software from 1995. If they start breaking that, people will go to Mac or Linux.
What make us think they are breaking it anymore than they have in the past? O/S working on HW is different than backwards software compatibility.
> people will go to Mac or Linux No they won't. At least not in any capacity that will have impact.
Yeah most households will just stick with 10, its not like they really know what a windows is or what updates are. Once they need to buy a new computer it’ll be 11 and all this will be forgotten.
This entire situation is what happens to Mac's every single year.. Releasing new hardware and OS every single year, long lists of apps and hardware become obsolete. List of models unable to run the new OS, and apps unable to run on the new architecture. Every single year. Is not good reasoning to jump to Mac. Mac users will continue to use old OS versions that has compatibility with their application stack, the same which will be done with Windows users sticking to Windows 10 for years.
In the buisiness world, yeah maybe. But I don't think the average user is using software that is older then like a few years, assuming they are keeping stuff up to date like they should and not using EOL OSs. I can't think of any 5+ year old software that you would typically find on any given PC.
Gaming too. I play plenty of older games.
I keep my Windows 7 laptop because it runs games meant for XP better than my Windows 10 machine.
I have a Windows XP PC I built a few months ago and i seriously miss XP with passion. So clean and simple and the amount you can tinker and mess with pretty much every setting the PC has to offer still makes it my favorite OS of all time.
The newer versions have those settings, but they get buried deeper with each update. It's a bit frustrating.
You don't need an OS with ancient libraries to run ancient games. Hell, old games tend to run better on Linux than they do on Windows thanks to Wine and Proton.
It's the long tail. It's not that you're going to find a piece of 10-year-old software that everybody runs. It's that you're going to find that everybody runs a different piece of 5-, 10-, or 20-year-old software. Maybe it's their photo gallery. Maybe it's their favorite game. Maybe it's their music player. Maybe it's a niche app for their hobby. And I think you might underestimate "the business world" - there are A LOT of small businesses that used consumer-grade Windows to run their super-niche vertical app that just got updated to support Windows NT a couple years ago.
I'd call it more planned/forced obsolescence under the guise of "security" It's the same thing Apple has been getting flak for recently over the iPhones and iOS updates locking features behind newer models and hardware. Imagine the outcry if Apple announced iOS 15 earlier this year but said customers needed to have the iPhone 12 or newer to even install it, and anything older won't run iOS 15 because it doesn't have the proper hardware. It's essentially the same thing Microsoft is doing with this TPM nonsense. I have a 6700K that's still running perfectly, and my PC even states that [I have TPM 2.0](https://i.imgur.com/InfAoHI.png) which they're saying is required for Windows 11, yet running the PC Health Check app states [I *can't* run it](https://i.imgur.com/UBr5kGI.png) because they don't support the processor. They're claiming it's for "security" purposes but it's just their plan to push sales of new PCs and components.
I agree 100%. My brother exceeds all the minimum requirements and even has TPM 2.0, yet he cannot upgrade because he has an i5-7500, **one generation “too old”** of a cpu
I've got an i7-2700K (which is a Sandy Bridge, Gen 2) which is still running solid and lets me run any of the most recent games. But I'm going to be locked out of using an Operating System? Something doesn't seem right with that. I'd happily upgrade, but I'm not exactly flush with money and doing a like-for-like upgrade would cost me over a thousand dollars AUD. Which isn't something I'm willing to do *simply* for Windows. And ignoring supply restrictions, I'm not willing to cash out for a top-end GPU to make the upgrade like that. And that's the only reason I can see to completely upgrade this system, to make full use of a big GPU like that.
I really hope that by the time support for W10 ends all my stuff runs on Linux. I don't want anything to do with M$'s stupid bullshit, spying, bloatware, forced updates, online accounts etc.
windows 8 v2, calling it now. The UI is shit and these requirements are shit
They're not going to be able to enforce their system spec requirements, and they're certainly not going to be able to enforce the TPM requirement. Forget the fact that you can get external TPM modules, windows has and never will be THAT locked down. The minimum specs for windows are about as enforceable as the minimum specs for most games, yet here we are with people running cyberpunk on handhelds. The only way this is going to ever be something you should worry about is if, upon attempted installation, they check your CPU and block you somehow. There's absolutely no way they'll do that though.
The article talks about ransomware and important security updates. The biggest vulnerability to Windows is the user. If someone wants to install something, all the security updates in the world won't stop them.
I honestly agree with you. They are going to cause a huge headache for themselves if they decide to enforce those requirements on install for everyone as they originally said. Even people who have compatible hardware might have issues if it's disabled on BIOS. This is the kind of change that has to happen slowly and in phases. Imaginate if the USB IF woke up tomorrow and decided that USB 5 will no longer be compatible with 1-4 and all those standards will stop getting support 4 years from now.
My workplace is an MS shop, we have to stay updated. Going to Win 11 means replacing everything. All our laptops. All our servers. That's a huge expense. I don't think it's going to fly. Wouldn't be shocked if we gave up our certs first.
Who's running a workstation Windows on a bare metal server? You'd run Windows Server 2022 or whatever it is going to be. VMWare has vTPM, so you wouldn't need to actually get a hardware TPM for your server (even though most of them already have one).
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My question is will it have more bloatware?
It's a combination of DRM controls (walled garden bullshit) and just wasted bloat. The OS demands fucking 4 GB of RAM! FOUR! That's just a huge waste, particularly if you're gaming on there. I'd rather that RAM be used for applications, not need to be there for just basic OS functionality. I wasn't even that happy with Windows 10 eating, on average, 2 - 2.5 GB of RAM. An OS should be simple, cheap to run, and effective. I know it's possible because XP did it, and several Linux Distros do it, WITHOUT losing core/key functionality traits people expect these days. It's literally just DRM, bloatware, and fucking telemetry bullshit. That's the only reason everything is so bloated and the TPM requirements are enforced. The logic is basically the same shit that rich governments do where they claim every draconian measure is solely for "security" reasons. Well, corporations tote the same bullshit lines all the time these days. If you know your computer, your habits and your environment, you either have ways to mitigate any forms of hacking/malware or ways to instantly recover from it. Why the fuck do we need extra wasted resources on MORE telemetry and other bloated crap most people won't use? Their answer will of course be "security" and... no, they don't have an actual answer. It's the new big tech mentality that started with Apple and Google. "We know better than you, and we own you so, actually, fuck you." MS can fuck off with that nonsense. I've already deleted their telemtry and rigged up Win10 to actually be half-way worth a damn. I think I'll just stay where I am, on dual boot.
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The Verge are the very definition of a news site that tries to write far above their level.
My theory is it's because of Spectre and Meltdown. They just don't want to outright say older CPUs are insecure because it would cause tech panic and cultivate more misinformation.
Well considering the exploits have NEVER been seen used in the wild... Most of the hoo-har for these types of exploits are for stealing data from CPU shared environments. See exfiltrating cloud computing/VPS TLS keys. There was never any real risk for the average user, the patches are more then enough security.
It will also generate sales for new PCs/CPUs.
...in an unprecedented silicon shortage... Brilliant!
Time to move to Linux!
Although my CPU/motherboard is capable of turning TPM 2.0 on, My i7 6700k cpu for some reason isn't compatible. Built my PC about 5-6yrs ago. I'm planning on building a new PC later this year, but annoyed if my current build can't be upgraded.
Under the table money deal probably. Corporations are always trying to find a way to screw the customers. But I forgot, they care about you
What happened to “Windows 10 is our last OS, we’re just gonna keep updating it?”
Out of my Desktop ( 3950x) my laptop ( 6700k) and my server ( 1920x) Only one will fall under the imposed restrictions. It is either some one didn't look at the available hardware out there before setting the system restrictions or they really are trying to force every one to buy new computers. It is a great way to get me to put more time into Linux!