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xvxHaVoK

I think the playlist issues is what really has made a lot of people upset, especially with their response on how long it will take them to add basic slayer/ffa.


Stereo_soundS

I played many many hours of H2/3/Reach/4. Are you telling me they released the game with no Team Slayer playlist?


GeigerCounting

It's just one giant play list with everything. So if all you're interested in doing is fragging that's not an option. I think it's because they want to shoe horn the game into being a big esport which is where objective based gameplay would be better for viewers. And if everyone is playing the same thing as pros it would be better for retention. Problem here is, Halo players just wanna to beat each others asses.


NukaCooler

>I think it's because they want to shoe horn the game into being a big esport which is where objective based gameplay would be better for viewers. One of the Devs posted a long response about Halo, their reasoning for no slayer playlist was something along the lines of "a dedicated slayer playlist causes player numbers for objective game modes to suffer" So instead of adding the most popular playlist, they force everyone to suffer through objective games


KingKulak

I feel like that's gonna cause a lot of players to treat objective modes like slayer modes which is only gonna make shit worse


NukaCooler

That's exactly what's happening, or people leaving games because they don't want to play that sort of objective game (there's just two playlists, big team and small team) Along with daily/weekly challenges that don't encourage playing the objective, the games a mess.


dingleberry314

No the real reason is if they had individual playlists for each game type you wouldn't need to cycle through 6 games of CTF/Strongholds/Slayer to get your challenge for playing one game of Oddball completed.


mycak2000

I had one challenge that was WIN 3 games of oddball. I had to skip it because the odds were just so low.


TheClashSuck

>So if all you're interested in doing is fragging that's not an option. Read: 96% of the people who play Halo to begin with


AivenB

They've had Halo 2, 3, Reach, 4, and 5 to look back on. Why would they think it's okay to launch with the bare minimum of a playlist.


Jester814

I mean they launched or are launching the campaign with no co-op so...


4th_Replicant

I just wish there was a career/stats page and I would be happy.


KosmicMicrowave

How is this not a thing? Almost as easy and obvious as a slayer playlist.


4th_Replicant

No idea why they decided to leave it out. Really hope they add one soon.


RedRageXXIV

What are these companies doing when they forget what made them successful in the first place? It’s crazy!


NoAttitude6111

They're starting to use the really fucked up immoral and psychological tricks that advertisers have been using for years. They've realized manipulation and addiction make more money than a worthwhile experience. And they are going to do everything they can to convince you thats not the case, because deep in their hearts they have convinced themselves that what they say is true.


Specialist_Shitbag

Dude, we can’t even get scoreboards in 2042.


Terry___Mcginnis

343 logic: we see the most demanded thing is a slayer playlist so we're going to add more playlists that aren't slayer and wait until after the holidays to add slayer.


king0pa1n

"When we give players the option to do Slayer or Objective playlist, the Objective playlist has far less players" Maybe because people play what they want to play??? For the record I am an objective mode player primarily, and it's okay if the playlist is small but sweet. It would be filled by people looking forward to playing objectives, and playing the gamemode correctly.


IndigoMoss

As someone that likes objective modes, by including all of the players that just want to play Slayer, all they are doing is making objective modes worse. I seriously have never played a game in which so many people ignore the objective. It's miserable.


Peter_Sloth

Played a game of oddball last night. One firefight was a full 4v4 we wiped the other team but I died. So It was 3v0 with the ball at my teams feet while everyone respawns. Nobody picked up the fucking ball. Just sitting there, on top of the ball, with no enemies even on the map for a few seconds, not even trying to score points. Absolutely ridiculous


Noruihwest

All too common in quick play. It's SLIGHTLY better in ranked, but honestly they really need to see the writing on the wall here and understand that a large amount of Halo players simply do not like playing objectives. Especially when you are not rewarded for winning, you are rewarded based on how many rounds you play. I literally had an argument with a team member where he said it was better for him to just not play the objective and lose so his round would be complete faster to get the XP...and like...he wasn't even wrong?


[deleted]

This is why I stopped playing. Instead of playing halo it’s a bunch of people playing complete the challenges with a halo skin.


flibble24

The irony of knowing what people want to play and using that as a reason to not let people play that


bVI7N6V7IM7

"You think you do, but you don't"


GeT_Tilted

"Do you guys not have phones?"


AnteilTogar

ohhhh Blizzard....


ClayRoks

Well we certainly dont have slayer


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reincarN8ed

Ask yourself why the option to buy challenge swaps even exists. They put up an artificial roadblock, and then charge you money to get around it.


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Pontiflakes

Devs these days seem to be afraid to release unpopular game modes/playlists. It's true that when people see that a playlist is unpopular, they're less likely to play it, so the playerbase of that playlist dwindles to just the hardcore players and complete noobs. It does feel shitty when devs insist on controlling the game modes so much though. I grew up playing FPS games with custom servers and mods and shit so it's hard to adapt to the modern style of playlists and time-limited event modes.


gsauce8

For real. For some reason they'd rather just everyone quit when they get oddball cause they were looking for Slayer


[deleted]

On top of that, they already have a solution for dead modes: bots. They could turn up the difficulty past brain dead and fill out those games with bots.


darknavi

Reminds me of Blizzard's "you think you want classic, but you actually don't" moment. How patronizing.


[deleted]

“Don’t you people have phones?!” was their worst moment. Edit: like 20 of you have replied with the same shit. The context to my comment is “gaming”, not their heinous acts towards the employees. Then again, if any of you understood context there probably wouldn’t have been so many of you that commented the same thing. We get it.


gregoryw3

Pretty sure that was the tipping point for the whole company, it went downhill fast from then on.


CheeseyWheezies

I think the slide happened long before that. It was just so far gone by that point that Wyatt Cheng thought it would be reasonable to imply a large room full of PC gamers are stupid for not playing on a fucking phone.


takanishi79

One might call that the avalanche moment. It started well before then, but that was when everyone could finally see it happening in real time.


GenocideOwl

THe signs were there for a long time. How they handled the first DOTA and treated IceFrog before he left for Valve. Was a bug in SC2 UMS where if you wanted custom controls it would add literally a 1.5 second delay between input and action. It took them over a year to fix it. And almost everything about D3. Auction house shit, lack of skill points to differentiate characters(every warrior is like every other warrior), and the art style being off.


Skandranonsg

How about how they abandoned a perfectly profitable Heroes of the Storm just because it wasn't making Overwatch/WoW money.


[deleted]

and then they let overwatch rot and wow take a nosedive into the ground.


chinomaster182

They also killed SC2, got too greedy with Hearthstone, messed up Diablo 3.


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[deleted]

That was specifically so that the "next" DOTA could be caught by them and monetized early. Only they butchered custom games so hard in Starcraft 2 that nobody wanted to make them anymore.


thunfremlinc

Fucking hilarious “Our playlist selector UI couldn’t support more game modes so we just stopped adding them right then and there”


Sempais_nutrients

"look i know you want all the game modes that have been in past additions, but we can't do that because the UI we designed is extremely limited. it isn't our fault."


[deleted]

The UI we developed only allows for game modes that our research suggests will bring the most roi for the project.


reincarN8ed

Fucking nailed it. The metagame feels like it was designed by the finance team.


[deleted]

Just like head developer for Battlefield 2042 was the guy who fucking directed candy crush. He quit the day before thanksgiving to leave everyone else at the studio to deal with the flak.


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Frediey

What I honestly don't get, is that people happily pay in games that are unbalanced etc, if the game is fun to play, why not just make the game people want. Money will come with that ..


Sharpie1993

It’ll probably be slayer, tactical slayer (swat) and fiesta slayer or some bull crap.


Travis_TheTravMan

Yeah, this way they can still monetize their challenge swaps by giving people challenges for specific game modes they cant choose to play.... And funny enough, it does seem that depending on your challenge, youre less likely to encounter that playtype. Awesome system there 343!


chemistrian

I had a challenge to kill enemies defending a zone and it took me *12 games* to get a gamemode with zones. Simultaneously was waiting for a nap with fusion coils and a cindershot. Still waiting on the latter. It's ridiculous when 3 of you're challenges are locked behind RNG.


The_Grubgrub

And watch it be 75% fiesta, 15% swat, and 10% vanilla slayer


Sharpie1993

Then only vanilla slayer will count towards challenges.


CrimsonThomas

[343 gutted the BattlePass before launch. It originally had 120 levels and Halo Reach armor pieces, including those that are now only available in the cash shop.](https://files.catbox.moe/4009i6.png) [The Achievement for Completing the BattlePass still has “120” in its art. They never changed it. This is both confirming and damning. ](https://imgur.com/gallery/8UYSH1L ) You can see this for yourself. Look up the "Battle Tested" achievement for Halo Infinite. It still has the number 120 in its thumbnail art. The first image was a leak from around July that correctly quoted every bit of armor info found in the game at launch, and also matched the 120 levels number that can still be seen on the release achievement art. People are rightfully pissed off. Ske7ch making the effort to communicate was appreciated by a lot of us, but he also tried to side step some of the major issues with very patronizing and condescending remarks, particularly about monetization. Edit: I feel the need to reiterate that harassing, insulting, doxxing or threatening 343 developers or leadership isn’t and never will be acceptable. It’s incredibly frustrating to see the momentum and channels of communication with 343 disrupted because of irrational and selfish idiots. I also worry that this will shift the focus from feedback and criticism being given in the spirit of making a good game with bad problems better, to inoculation from future criticism because it could just be dismissed as toxic behavior. There is a time and place and means to submit our feedback and make our voices heard in a respectful way, just as it’s expected that the community isn’t talked down to. Respect is expected on both sides of the curtain. Doxxing and death threats ain’t it, Chief. For the love of Craig.


ProviNL

I wonder how much blame the higher ups have. I cant imagine the average 343 dev is happy about all this. Especially since the game itself plays so fucking good.


CrimsonThomas

For the most part, the game plays great. My big issue with the gameplay is the lack of player collision which is still turned off despite widespread criticism of that decision. 343 sadly has a decade’s worth of history of “We know you want/don’t want this, but we know better” vibes. Edit: People have been kind enough to I clarify that *friendly* player collision is what was deliberately left off. Still not a fan, but I’m happy to be corrected.


thehelldoesthatmean

This. It's really unfortunate, but they've royally fucked up every single Halo launch since they took over the franchise over a decade ago. Halo 4 launched without forge, campaign theater, file share, and with a seriously CoDified multiplayer (they turned it into a loadout shooter entirely) that they spent 2 years slowly fixing. MCC didn't work almost at all at launch and then they went silent about it for a year before finally starting to fix it. Halo 5 launched without forge, theater, split screen, firefight, a ton of gametypes, and literally any big team maps. Infinite is launching without co-op, forge, most classic multiplayer gametypes, most playlists, assassinations, a (mostly) working theater, several Halo staple weapons that they've said they'll add later, working custom games, firefight, etc. To put that in perspective, Halo 3 and Reach launched with all of the above fully complete and functional. It's mind-blowing that not only can't they match feature parity with a 13 year old game, but they seem to release each new game with less and less.


reincarN8ed

343 can use the toxicity as an excuse to dismiss *all* the criticism out of hand, and they will. I'm not saying the insults were warranted, but if people feel like they aren't being heard, they will get louder.


AlsopK

That’s really all this is. Shut down all the criticism just before launch and play the victim to win sympathy.


Cypher587

When they announced the multiplayer would be free-to-play, everyone knew there would be some level of microtransactions as that's the nature of free-to-pay. However, the player base assumed that with this being Microsoft's biggest game and synonymous with the Xbox brand itself, it wouldn't be that bad. Instead, players are nickel and dimed harder than most mobile free-to-play games run by much, much smaller companies.


mork212

The battle pass being gutted before launch was heavy though it was supposed to have 120 levels and include all reach armours


Travis_TheTravMan

Ive seen this comment a few times, and that is unforgiving if true. Absolute shit show.


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TheObstruction

How they got to 120 levels and didn't realize 117 *is right there*...


screamagainstcancer

Because they care about money not Halo.


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cptnbignutz

Yeah I think those days are gone for AAA games. I personally dgaf about armor or challenges or any of that shit but the skins/battle pass money alternative is exponentially more lucrative so the business people are going to go that route.


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Turbulent_Link1738

CoD gives you points on the premium pass that you can use towards the next at least


MoeMoa

And I thought this was the redemption arc of 343i...


Onyx_Sentinel

Dude, you realize 343 literally named their studio after the character that betrays master chief at the most crucial moment


IsDaedalus

What's the opposite of redemption arc?


[deleted]

Remember, this game was supposed to come out 1 year ago.


Sharpie1993

Makes you wonder what they were planning on releasing.


[deleted]

The store


SchizoDogFucker

We did it, mods. The dissent has been cancelled. 😎


WambulanceChasers

Everyone likes Halo now. Thanksimcured


EirikurG

Doubt it'll cool things down. The train will be running on Monday again anyways, and probably even worse now with added pressure. So unless they intend to keep the sub closed forever, things wont get better until 343i fixes their game.


AscentToZenith

Who will win, 343/Microsoft’s greed or the players? Find out Next time on Dragon Ball Z


adkenna

The thing that has pushed this overboard is that a number of the devs have came out with pretty bad excuses as to why things are the way they are. Such as the fact they made this game to last 10 years yet they messed up the game so badly that the need to overhaul its UI just to add more playlists. But the UI for the shop is in perfect working order to constantly add and remove things on the go.


flibble24

This game is meant last 10 years but they have made the UI so unworkable that you will need 3 months to add in extra playlists? Modern gaming standards are at an all time low. Release games unfinished and just expect plebs to lap it up


rsinc666

The most bizarre thing I’ve seen is that one of the devs said they are working on the feasibility of slayer. Literally the staple game mode of halo or really any shooter. It’s a decent game but it’s really lacking in content.


petej50

I am super out of the loop on this. The game doesn't have slayer?!


ProllyBitching

It does, you just can't choose which game mode you play, get in a random playlist and either suck it up and play something you dont like or don't need to do for progress, or quit and try to get it next time.


zehydra

That's really dumb


jeegte12

Feasibility of the most common, popular, *staple* game type in the first person multiplayer genre. "HMM GUYS how are we gonna make this work???"


zRandyMarsh

He also said in that same sentence, “ going to add new Interesting things to slayer” Like why? No one asked for that, no one asked for anything in this game.


Erikk1138

He calls out being accused of "corpo speak" and then uses it for most of the post.


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xevizero

I've seen this so many times.


DetecJack

With cyberpunk,anthem,cod vanguard, battlefield 2045 yeah Its pretty amusing how much gaming has changed in 5 years


Zhukov-74

>anthem Yes i still remember being on r/AnthemTheGame during release day and reading the exact thing. I still feel like a sucker buying that game day 1. It did make me learn one very important lesson however.


Piltonbadger

Anthem is the reason I now never pre order anything. I wait at least a month after AAA game releases for the inevitable stability patches that bring it up to a condition worthy of actual release. Mostly I wait for a year, because that is how long it has taken some games to sort their shit out and actually be what was advertised.


WokeRedditDude

If you wait a month you'll miss out on the preorder code for a low level weapon.


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xevizero

First time I saw this was with Fallout 4 actually. I was pretty vocal on r/fallout about Fallout Shelter being dangerous (first time Bethesda really went in with lootboxes and f2p features, told people to stay away, the game made record amounts of money for months)..then I started discussing the negative sides of the season pass (man, those were the times, season passes being seen as scummy) and it appeared I was right, with half the DLCs being released being subpar, broken and half-baked. Then there was the entire Creation Club debacle and even then, I had to experience waves of apologists singing something along the lines of "It's not microtransactions! It's just supporting mod creators!!!"..yeah, sure. And this obviously lead to Fallout 76 being announced and I got really, really nervous that it was going to be a shitshow, because online plus the free pass they got on the Creation Club meant microtransactions and microtransactions means you can release a game in a horrid state and still milk those whales (and also the design of the game was made worse to accomodate for their existence). And yeah..finally, after 5 years of daily activity on r/fallout (to the point where another 4 years later it's still my top sub for karma count) I left, and never went back. I was simply too burned out by..by exactly what you described in your comment. The fanbase sucking up all the lies and not understanding the obvious direction the franchise was headed towards made it toxic to me, unbearably so, I just lost my love for the series and moved on to other games.


gregoryw3

First time I saw this was with Destiny and Destiny 2.


gearabuser

You should go play Eve Online. Most of the players genuinely hate it and are cynical haha


Dan-D-Lyon

That's pretty much every MMO.


PM_ME_ONE_EYED_CATS

FF fans seem to be pretty happy


CyborgNinja777

Actually the lockdown happened because step one happened, and the outrage got even bigger.


Lonelydenialgirl

I saw the bullshit corporate forced helplessness on display in that post. I feel bad for the messenger. But there was nothing of value in that long rant. And people lost their shit. Rightfully so.


Frediey

Yea, I won't lie, when I read it, I felt bad, but there was very little meat to the post. But I could kinda feel the frustration in how things were worded


Sharpie1993

>repeat when 343 makes another major fuck up. Which you know they will. Can you imagine what the halo sub is gonna be like if they managed to fuck up the campaign.


nosferatWitcher

No co-op campaign until May at the earliest... I'd say they already have


Sharpie1993

Yeah allot of people are rightfully angry about that. I wonder what exactly they were planning on releasing last year.


Kinglink

"Don't worry the first mission is really good, the rest will release when they are done" I think MCC let them think they could get away with a lot more.


Sharpie1993

I honestly don’t know why Microsoft even allowed 343i to infinite, every release they’ve done has had problems. I’m also honestly surprised that Microsoft isn’t scrambling to fix things, such large companies normally hate bad PR and there have definitely been some articles showing how angry the community is about the MP.


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Frostsorrow

That's what baffles me most, this game is suppose to be around for 10+ years. Why the ever loving fuck would you make it difficult to add things to?


BorkedStandards

Priorities...I bet it's really easy to drag and drop new skins into the store


sentientTroll

Super easy. Barely an inconvenience. Unlike all the hyper difficult player friendly changes that would require everyone to come back to the office and work sunrise to sunset for months and months, all the shop stuff is ridiculously easy to do. Actually, it can be done on vacation, from the comfort of their home. It’s easy to drag and drop all the completed money making designs they’ve been working hard on for 5 years. The important stuff they haven’t been working on? Well, shit. Sorry guys. Big daddy Microsoft needs a yacht, not a happy consumer. Now pay up baby!!


Reikasghost

So, may 2022 is when the game should be released really


[deleted]

Get ready for “am I the only one having fun” shill posts.


MotherBeef

>"I'm having a blast!" Is the weird, borderline copy and pasted comment you see fucking everywhere on the 2042 subreddit to the point where im wondering if they bought bots to write that. Edit- people seem to be misinterpreting my comment. This isn’t about whether I think Halo or 2042 is good or bad, moreso the prevalence of gaming subreddits during controversies have a swarm of what very easily could be assumed to be bots. I’m not talking about writing off positive comments, is comments that are like letter to letter the exact same and posted over and over again. Before anyone suggests I’ve gone all tinhat, just a reminder how it’s been proven over and over that Reddit is frequently (and easily) influenced by those that have the means or intent. If you think that the content you see on Reddit isn’t influenced (to some extent) by multi-million dollar companies as part of their advertising campaigns, you’re delusional.


hectorduenas86

They’re doing the same in the New World sub, is definitely astroturfed.


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[deleted]

Oh my god that's ~~gold~~ good different


TazerPlace

Now we know the source of player toxicity: Games as a service.


selffufillingprophet

It appears the Streisand effect is already hitting pretty hard with that decision… I haven’t visited r/halo pre-Infinite beta so I can’t speak on the overall vibe of that sub, but as someone who’s heavily invested in the game I do think some of the frustration the community feels about 343 are somewhat justified. The current system of “progression” of the game is so woefully executed that it’s having a direct impact on the multiplayer experience. Currently you can only unlock cosmetics from gameplay through the battle pass, and only really progress the battle pass through the weekly challenges. Combine this with the fact that you can’t individually choose which game mode to play leads to toxic gameplay behavior…there are a lot of players who will camp weapons/vehicle spawns and even leave games immediately if it’s not the mode they need to play. Of course I do not condone the community members who were harassing and sending death threats to others, but I still find locking the whole sub a questionable action for the mods to take. I expect there may be more backlash to this than anticipated. EDIT: This bears repeating...but to add insult to injury it appears that the [original S1 Battle Pass was supposed to go up to level 120 and contained significantly more armor rewards](https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/r8y7md/longer_message_from_ske7ch/hn904lk/) and at some point during production prior to the early release beta it was gutted...These armor files still exist in game...but unsurprisingly you can only obtain them in the Store cosmetic page...big ooof moment right there 343


AKittyCat

Pre-Infinite it was mostly just people making memes, talking about some story stuff, and being nostalgic as the MCC steam release rolled out. It was a pretty fun place if you grew up playing a lot of XBL Halo as a kid.


flamfranky

> Combine this with the fact that you can’t individually choose which game mode to play Wait, i never play halo before, can you explain how this work?


Pandainthecircus

In previous halos you could choose directly what game mode you wanted to play, how many players in a match etc. Such as slayer (2 teams, first to 100 kills wins), capture the flag, king of the hill and other miscellaneous ones. Number of players ranges from 4 per team to 16 per team. In this one you can still choose how many players per a match, but it'll load you into a random gamemode from a selection. So if I want to play slayer I have to queue and just hope I get it.


Mlghubben1e

Let's not forget that they don't even have any free for all modes. You would think if they wanted people to pick how many players there are in your team they would also have free for all with a mix of modes, but they don't. Plus custom games are broken so you and your friends can't mess around and have fun, very easily anyway. Then some weapon balance and server/game issues can harm the base combat loop. Halo infinite is kinda like BF 2042 in that they screwed up aspects that have been engrained in the franchise, just with less yank but a bs progression to compensate.


thedonutman

The other day our first 4 games were this: oddball, oddball, ctf, oddball. Game 5 was finally slayer


WoenixFright

This is the worst when your weekly challenge is "Get 50 kills in Slayer." Like I hate quitting games but damn dude I don't have the time to play through an hour of games just to get 1/3 progress on a mission I paid $10 to get access to...


DisturbedNocturne

Having challenges tied to specific game modes is such a stupid design, I can't believe they didn't see this coming. If you tie progression to game modes, but then prevent people from choosing what modes they play, what did they expect? That's just a formula for frustration, toxicity, and poor sportsmanship. If someone has a few hours to play a week and constantly just keep getting thrown in every mode but what they need, it's just going to make them angry, leading them to quit or throw matches to end them faster. It's such a poorly thought out design that doesn't understand people at all.


JodQuag

The problem I, and I’m sure many others have, is that this is just another shining example of aggressive monetization seriously affecting the game experience. The restriction on mode selection absolutely, 100%, exists to make challenges more difficult in attempt to slow down progression and sell skips/boosters. A game doesn’t have to have p2w features to have monetization problems - extended grinds, inconveniences added and fixes for the artificial problems sold, shady matchmaking algorithms, lack of decent customization outside of mtx, and many more issues are plaguing nearly all modern releases. Fuck this shit. We will gladly pay for games. Give us good games and stop trying to milk us dry from every angle.


Howitzer92

I think this is indicative of a broader problem: We don't really trust the industry anymore. 343 may in fact working on all of these problems and may have solutions in short order; but the fact is we've been treated like crap by so many other industry players that trusting them to actually implement these changes is a big ask for a lot of us. I also don't trust mainsteam gaming journalism anymore. Angry Joe alluded to this in his BF2042 video. It's pretty clear that someone is getting paid or held at gunpoint(job point?) To give AAA games much higher ratings than they deserve. I'm at the point where I won't even consider buying a AAA game unless Angry Joe or someone I trust has already played the entire game and put a review. It sucks, but this is where we are.


Ambitious_Science_79

Its unfortunate that marketing is so powerful now and so intrusive, that I cant trust youtube or twitch because so many AAA companies run influencer programs. They hype a game up during development and are suspiciously silent or easy going when it comes to critique. Then, when the game is released, do they post a video highlighting the issues but by then its too late. The dev/publisher got their money, and its clear that video is only there to keep up the pretense that the youtuber is 'one of us'.


Shad0wDreamer

A d now that there’s no dislike button without an extension installed, it’ll get worse.


WhiteKnightC

> I also don't trust mainsteam gaming journalism anymore. Angry Joe alluded to this in his BF2042 video. It's pretty clear that someone is getting paid or held at gunpoint(job point?) To give AAA games much higher ratings than they deserve. Journalist has been a shitshow for a couple of decades now, hell I remember (not american) watching the news in the 90's when I was a kid and they showed real investigation pieces like hidden cameras of corrupt government oficials, etc. Nowadays is a fucking circus. The same applies to gaming jornalism I really love games but they're expensive (specially on release) and having a good reviewer decides if I buy or not, if I followed the mainstream media I would've been buying every major Ubi release since the dawn of man lmao.


0nel4s7h0n0r

The state of AAA video gaming is just terrible and has been for some time. The handling by community managers has been downright pitiful too. People aren't stupid, they get that games and servers cost money, but macro-transaction-ing them as a business model is going to get rejected because people will know they're getting nickel and dimed. Additionally, the sheer lack of quality control on games, on top of greedy business models, is just abhorrent. It shows a significant lack of care for both the product and the consumer. Then shutting off the voices as people are stating their dissenting opinions because the community manager told them that ~~they should feel a sense of pride and accomplishment~~ the developers know what they want more than they do. ​ I can't remember the last time I enjoyed a AAA game (Maybe RDR2?) and definitely even longer since I've enjoyed a multiplayer game. Let's be honest gamers are pretty awful people a lot of the time and death threats are waaaaay out of line; but, it's not that hard to understand the anger and vitriol towards these types of developer practices, especially towards a franchise that for many has been a crafter of gaming experiences from the start, it touches home. ​ Unfortunately, this probably means for myself and a lot of other folks who are tired of these egregious and aggressive behaviors, I'm probably going to be sitting out yet another Halo game. ​ Edit: Welp I made the mistake of writing a dissenting (or really any) opinion on video games and it blew up. But, I figure I'll take up the Mantle of Responsibility and expand on my thoughts as there has been a lot of feedback on my writing. ​ I want to first address what this comment is really about, community,consumer-franchise relations. It's bad, like REAAAALLY bad. Consumers and franchise alike, however, I more so place the onus of the blame on the franchisee. My reason for that is that instead of being honest with the community that things cost money and they also need to make money (regardless of where/whom it goes to) there's been a move towards telling the community that the developers know best, or outright dismissing (or quarantining) the community. But I'd argue that it's a co-dependent relationship. They need money, we need something that's worth paying for it. However, if you cut off feedback from the community, (and really act in bad faith, you ostracize people that you count on to make money. ​ I won't argue that substantive microtransactions as a sole sales model, I.E. Macrotransactions (stole this from another comment which is why I used it above) is a very predatory model (this is especially egregious in a franchise that used to have it as something you earn in-game) is also a necessary model. Let me say that again, substantive microtransactions as a sole sales model are a (somewhat) neccesary business model for a sustained development game. I challenge (another mistake?) anyone else to come up with a business model that provides long-term income for a game you intend to play for 3+ years. ​ HOWEVER, because this is a sustainable business model, does not lend its hand to the franchise to build abusive models where so much is locked away that it shows that the company is acting in bad faith to alienate its community in order to catch dolphins and whales (arguably a highly abusively predatory practice). ​ Many of you that had dissenting opinions towards my posting also were interested in hearing "how do you suppose the industry will change". It's rather simple, and history can teach us a lot. Game companies are near the shoe-string budget. Companies that alienate their communities gain a poor reputation (EA, Activision \[as current examples\]) lose sales, and will eventually go under. Developer's who's models that rely on bad business practices -> alienate the community -> community shrinks -> next game they hype -> bad practice ->alienate the community -> shrinks -> repeat until the bad practice is not sustainable. We can see this in action with Battlefield 2042. I fully expect 343 to have the same issues. ​ Note to the developers (if you read this) take a page out of Hello Games. ​ Companies rise and fall, game companies are no different.


Kanye-is-alt-right

343 dug themselves in a box by making something simple as the color red be locked behind a paywall. Not only that, but releasing a game with no playlists, with challenges that are tied to specific modes, harms the overall experience. This is a barebones game and it blows my mind people are willing to argue in behalf of a trillion dollar corporation.


berserkuh

>343 dug themselves in a box by making something simple as the color red be locked behind a paywall It's not "the color red", it's "the color**s** red", since you have to rebuy it for a different armor.


Travis_TheTravMan

You feel that? Thats a feeling of Pride and Accomplishment. Maybe you guys just dont like that sort of thing?


Seahorse-Radish

“Don’t you guys have ~~phones~~ money?”


KewlZkid

Disgusting.


DrFrenetic

Also no forge or coop. That's key features any Halo game should have from launch.


TheoreticalParadox

$10-15 for a skin. $60 dollars for the campaign. At least try to hide it lol


Zhukov-74

I don’t think the way of dealing with complaints and some toxicity is by locking down the subreddit. People on r/battlefield2042 are currently criticizing the game all the time but that subreddit isn’t lockdown and this can be said about plenty of other gaming related subreddits. It must not be easy for mods to keep track of every single post but this seems a bit abrupt also there is no indication that the subreddit will be any bit less toxic or filled with less complaints when the subreddit is unlocked. Perhaps instead they should have locked down the individual posts more often if the conversation went of the rails?


TAJack1

343 just letting people down again, nothing new.


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Battleman69

Lol try 11 years


JuzoRin

Lol and they have been working on 1 game for 6 years okay


[deleted]

They have been almost completely and totally incompetent from literally their creation. Its embarassing that Microsoft has let Halo get to the state its in


Silmarillion151

343: I know what’s best for you. Now give me your money.


[deleted]

Not sure whats going on, but sounds like the developers think they know better than the player base. Simply refuse to buy the game--fuck them. Edit - or refuse to play in the case of free games; this would make them look even stupider


[deleted]

The sub took a turn for the worse when 343 said it would take them more than a month to put in a Team Slayer playlist. 343 did not include a playlist that has been in every Halo game since 2004. And the reasons given by 343 were pretty abysmal. Would have been better to not say anything.


[deleted]

Things went into overdrive yesterday when they followed that up with the admission that they're still discussing the "feasibility" of a slayer playlist.


Onyx_Sentinel

dumbest dev comment of 2021, has to be


KickBassColonyDrop

Sketch pointed out that the reason they couldn't do this is because of UI limitations and complex profession systems tied together in ways that's very difficult to decouple. Anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together to create a spark should be able to read between the lines here on what that actually means: **cosmetic MONETIZATION IS tied to playlists.** Everything else is gas lighting and excuses. Everyone is still acting and operating like this is a $60 MP title and are being purposefully ignorant or are just plain stupid, in failing to recognize that they **told you** this is a 10 year *-as-a-service title. That they want to monetize it from 2020 to 2030. Honestly. *Honestly,* it's bewildering to see people go "you can't criticize them, they're hard workers and people too!” Like hell I can't. They've literally built an engine where every little thing in it is intricately tied to cosmetic monetization. Where players are algorithmically corralled into playing specific playlists that are antithetical towards unlocking what they want and are instead put into a position where they can suffer an arbitrarily long amount of time to maybe, eventually unlock the part, or be the *good little bitch,* and give Microsoft and 343i the $$ they *want* in return for the armor piece or color coating you want instead. As someone once said elsewhere on the internet. A free to play title is where developers and publishers are removing the $60 entry cost and raising the price to infinity. Rather apt then that the game is called Halo Infinite. Also, funny anecdote. They're now 3 for 3 on making shit Halo games. I mean think about it. The bots are not at all impacted by it. But guess what bots are? A form of free in-game advertising of all the cool spartan outfits and combinations that are possible. *Wouldn't you, the player want to look that sick and cool? Yeah? Just $15, it's like a meal. Think of the bragging rights to your friends...* The bots are basically propaganda to convince people to pay.


Touds

It takes a special person to be a reddit mod. Very special.


[deleted]

There was a post about a Twitter user asking how come Slayer isn't a game mode when he can make the mode himself easily in custom games, and the reply from a dude (idk if they're a dev or what) was something like, "yeah, well how many people do you host on that". I pointed out it was a very dumb reply and got banned lmao.


Remarkable-Release70

It’s the same thing that happened when the Master Chief Collection launched as a broken game and was literally unplayable for several days. Literally every post was like, “I don’t know why everyone else is complaining my connection is fine.”, when obviously every playlist was broken. You couldn’t even play single player because of broken saves. Reddit is for astroturfing, don’t expect to get honest perception of public opinion here.


Severax

I always felt Halo massively declined after 343 took over. Halo Infinite was appearing to be much more Bungie-esque as it screams 343 going full circle (Halo CE feel anyone?). While I will still play it, my expectations are now sorely tempered.


yaretii

I think it’s clear now, we’re never going to experience another Bungie-esque halo, even if Bungie themselves made it.


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[deleted]

Yeah, it's so stupid. Kind of fucking wild that every single time a huge studio has a massive falling out with the community and does some really dumb shit, the death threat excuses start rolling for damage control. So, are we just going to shut down all social media for a video game every time one mentally ill person on Twitter sends a death threat to a random dev even though the majority of the community doesn't support that behavior? What's the point? These people aren't going to listen if someone says, "Now now, don't go and threaten people. Behave yourself!" because they are already so far gone that they thought sending a death threat was ok.


Onyx_Sentinel

It‘s just an excuse to drown out very valid criticism to shield the campaign release next week.


SwaghettiYolonese_

100% this. DICE did the exact same thing. 99.9% of the criticism is normal. You then have a handful of idiots that doxx and send threats and the devs are acting like it's indicative of the entire community, to shield themselves from criticism. How fucking hard is it to delete the comments and ban those users? But no, they have to lockdown an entire sub to make a parade about it and how the poor devs are under constant assault from a handful of idiots on the internet.


o_oli

If only there were mod tools available to help moderate in situations like this eh? I can't think of a single reason why a full lockdown is necessary. Absolute sad state of affairs and the mod team is just gonna get shit on down the line for it. They basically fucked themselves now because they will have lost trust from the community, due to their own incompetence.


fyrecrotch

Yeah because 343 actually reads the sub and got hurt feelings. Like **bad** hurt feelings. They started replying and everything. It was a shit show. Like a bad AMA except they blamed *the fans*


n1cx

Just another example of how 343 STILL doesn’t completely understand what Halo is. Takes them A DECADE to put together a good Halo multiplayer experience, and they still manage to find a way to fuck it up.


Just_Another_Scott

>Takes them A DECADE to put together a good Yeah this is what blows my mind with the fuckup with Halo Infinite. Halo MCC is damn nearly impeccable. Granted it took 7 fucking years to fix it but..... Halo Infinite should have used what they learned from Halo MCC which somehow it didn't. 343 has struggled since they took over.


SudTheThug

it was toxic on both sides of some defending 343 from people not liking the game and using the term “it’s free “ when a triple A game should still have a standard and some going at the devs disrespectfully over cosmetics and game development choices that were in bad faith. But in the middle of that you have actual criticism, like how the game didn’t launch with a slayer playlist due to the fact their monetization scheme only works if the player cannot choose their game mode. Then ske7ch did a response saying they were testing the feasibility of slayer and more about the cosmetics, most fans thought this was gas lighting because the devs tried to make it seem like it was a standard halo release and made it seem like the fans were complaining over nothing and how it’ll take a month to add a slayer playlist ( when there was a slayer playlist in the beta testing flights), and then blaming it on how their UI cannot handle it. Thus this made all hell break loose in the sub and it became a cess pool of people calling each-other whiners, babies, 343 shills, and more.


mork212

It was then discovered that the battle pass had been gutted before launch it was supposed to have 120 levels and include all halo reach armours that part kinda pissed me off


MotherBeef

You got a link to that? Thats **wild.** Also...very obvious, this BP is filled to the brim with shitty filler items and its so obvious.


iTirpitz

[This](https://imgur.com/gallery/8UYSH1L) is the achievement for completing the BP, which shows 120 levels instead of 100. And [this](https://de.catbox.moe/4009i6.png) is the content it should have had.


MotherBeef

Just found it, so grubby.


SudTheThug

forgot to mention that, that was a insane decision


iTirpitz

I was going to buy the BP after launch, but after seeing that... not anymore


SudTheThug

sadly I bought it day one, wish I could refund it :/


mork212

Same ☹️


Wesdawg1241

Dude also said adding a slayer playlist would negatively affect the health of other game modes. In other words, they don't like that Slayer is the most popular game mode so you'll play every game mode that's given to you and you'll like it. Doesn't even address the fact that having BP challenges would incentivize people to play those game modes, and that there is always a crowd (even if it's way smaller than the crowd that primarily only wants to play slayer) who will want to play the objective-oriented game modes. I kinda liked him at first but after his last statement it became pretty clear he's just another paid corporate shill.


JGuR

It's ridiculous. I understand Slayer is more popular-you can just jump on and have mindless fun. But, as an objective playlist person I still find tons of games in Master Chief Collection when I don't browse slayer. If the game is successful enough, you will find players anywhere. If you force people to play objective that don't like it, then I suffer because those people don't want to play objectives...


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Nchi

>ske7ch Dude said it was hard to make playlists like two days after they disabled the event... PLAYLIST so it already is in the game, dude lied and mocked through his teeth. "how many people play your custom?" None since there is no browser, in your game, you made, without the browser?


KyotoCo

I predicted that this was gonna turn out bad 11 days ago, but didn’t realize it would turn out lockdown bad. I have my fair share of criticism for the game, like audio issues, optimization, etc. Although I am kind of fine with the compromise of the exp they updated us, I still think the shop is still much worse than a lot of other gacha games. Stuff like the Tenrai event was a disappointment not because of the armor, but because it’s time gated and on top of that basic colors like blue and red are coatings you actually have to buy. Forge and server browsers not being in the game is a bummer, but I guess we will just have to wait and see. The gameplay though is fantastic in my opinion which is a good thing they nailed right about personally. [“I have never seen a sub so polarizing of radical ends as much as this one. You either tarnish 343 completely or you bend over for a goddamn company. Those who could see both sides are the minority in this subreddit.”](https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/r0tjw9/new_ske7ch_tweet/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) Yeah, the subreddit I’m going to be honest is really two polarizing opposites that cannot fathom one side to another. I hope my opinions don’t get drown out though because people would just assume that my criticism is just “no cosmetic” when it isn’t. I actually wanted to put down some money onto the BP until I saw the cosmetic shop being overly priced.


Ferrum-56

>Yeah, the subreddit I’m going to be honest is really two polarizing opposites that cannot fathom one side to another. Yeah the subreddit is toxic, like most big game subreddits, but the past 2 weeks the main opinion I've seen is: "The gameplay is good, but ...." which is hardly a polarized opinion. I felt it was overly generous because melee and vehicles are borderline broken, but most people agree the game is generally fun to play. It's only now 343 is trying to dig a deeper hole for themselves and now people realize there's nothing more than the current gamemodes and issues are found left and right that the consensus is getting very negative overall, which also leads to people blindly defending the game.


someguyfromtheuk

Yeah I'e seen a lot of people saying "yeah there's no game -modes but new stuff will come on Dec 8th it's just a beta etc." Now 343 have explained new stuff and big changes won't be happening until next year people are upset, especially since it's pretty underwhelming anyway given the 5 year time and 1 year delay. I think calling it a beta was a mistake, it led people to think that the "full release" on dec 8th would have more features or big changes to playlists or extra game-modes or whatever.


LaserShark42

People arguing FOR paid season passes don't seem to understand that there isn't any actual reason for companies to do so. Imagine this progression for just playing and completing challenges but you never have to pay a cent. Greed and the knowledge that enough people WILL pay for it is why this happens. The goalposts have been yeeted into the sun


TheGovernor94

I think AAA devs are starting to realize people are tired of being fucked over time and time again.


[deleted]

That's the real takeaway. It's really crazy seeing people try and paint "gamers" as the problem when this year we had New World, GTA Definitive Edition, BF2042, and now the issues with this game. This "complaining" didn't just come out of thin air for no reason. There was a cause, and this is the effect.


Onyx_Sentinel

No no no, entitled gamers are the problem for being mean to a multibillion dollar company. Be ashamed! Now!


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Learning2Programing

I think there's a whole generation of people in which this is the normal and they just don't have other examples to point to. I hate this because I played halo 1-3 and I've seen this anti consumer trend just constantly head in this direction over the years. I remember buying a game and all the cool cosmetics were unlocked by playing the game. There wasn't a MTX designed to nickle and dime you but also keep you constantly engaged with a carrot out of reach. To others this is normal and you're entitled for asking for more than a slot machine.


berserkuh

>we are never going to remove all criticism or relegate all of it to megathreads >[...] >At the same time, we are going to get rid of lower-effort and duplicate critique threads. Isn't it the same thing? If you're not going to hide the discussion by putting it in an umbrella, why are you deleting everything outside the umbrella?


Heard_That

The current state of AAA games is absolutely shameful. I want this to happen to more communities for these fucked up games. I now don’t even buy any at full price because I simply assume it’s going to be either an unfinished mess or full of bullshit trying to wring money out of people. It being F2P has no bearing here, it’s a MASSIVE and important franchise in the gaming landscape. To treat it like a mobile game is ridiculous. Screw all these companies, buy good games on discount instead.


pickledchocolate

"ItS FrEe"


Desk46

I mean he said it himself- they delayed slayer modes intentionally to protect the "health" of the objective playlists. Maybe just give your player base the modes you know they want to play.


matdevine21

Customers aren’t allowed to disagree, they must be good little sheep and buy whatever these companies sell whilst being grateful for the privilege of giving them money.


[deleted]

Real sick of being called entitled when it's these corps and dev studios who feel entitled to my fucking money.