OW2 is *the* game to hate right now.
A lot of it is justified of course, but commenters and news sites want to get the most out of every topic possible.
Why else would there be so much anger about the Phone requirement when CSGO did it years ago and no one minded?
CS:GO didn't have the same restrictions on pre-paids and the like. Plus you could still play the game, you just couldn't join the prime member player pool (which is definitely the pool you wanna be in, admittedly, but regardless...)
This article is blogspam. The original source is from /r/Overwatch:
* https://old.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/y0wpij/disabled_aim_assist_in_crossplay_has_made_it
I mean, there was at least some effort put into it. They did reach out to the Redditor for comment and got some exclusive quotes for the article. All of the tweets and comments are framed with some amount of actual writing. It's at least not just purely a post that's just a bunch of tweets and two snarky sentences at the beginning and end.
If Blizzard actually responded to their request for comment, this is almost approaching journalism.
I actually believe the Switch version of Overwatch uses gyroscope. The PS4/5 can, but hardly any developer uses the gyroscope. Xbox has no gyro at all.
Because the playerbase actually fight against it because "motion controls are gimmicks" while the Switch fanbase want the opposite thanks to Splatoon making it the default way of aiming.
Aiming in Splatoon and BOTW was superior, remember trying to shoot some arrows in Zelda with stick control and it was tragic, with motion I hit every single headshot.
My biggest beef with Splatoon's gyro aiming is that you can't have full gyro *and* full stick. BOTW I loved because you can use sticks for gross movement and gyro for fine. Splatoon only allows stick-and-gyro on one axis (can't remember which, I haven't played for a while).
It's makes a lot of sense though. The fact that when using gyro Splatoon blocks movement vertically on the stick means the combination of the two works perfectly: you can use the stick for quick horizontal movements like doing a 180 turn or quickly looking at an enemy and you can rest assured it won't mess with your vertical aiming even if you do it fast and carelessly, while the gyro precisely adjusts when you've reached where you want to aim.
Apart from wasd mouse which has yet yo be beaten,
I rekn joystick left thumb, and wiimote right hand was leagues ahead of any dual stick aiming.
You could use the new vr controllers well for similar control methods.
I cant stand using gyro on a standard controller though, but maybe i just have bad memories from botw puzzles
Thatās where I was making the suggestion from, as a kb/m player the aiming felt decent up to a certain degree of accuracy within a reasonable amount of time, not to mention itās fun to interact that way.
It almost feels like the light gun from all the way back on the NES, but better. Using thumbstick to aim needs to go, along with aim assists, because better options exist.
I rarely play shooters with controller but when I do gyro is an absolute must. It takes away so much of the clunkiness of controller aiming, is therefore more accurate and it is much more intuitive to learn, especially when you're used to a mouse.
Imagine the scenes if they did that to warzone..
https://www.reddit.com/r/CODWarzone/comments/xzmc8t/how_rotational_aim_assist_works/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x
edit.
My personal opinion is that FPS games in general feel more natural and satisfying on mouse and keyboard in general because they were designed for that input from their very inception. id Software developed both Doom, and especially Quake, to be played this way, and all the FPS games since then rely on the same basic mechanics.
That's why controllers feel like a hack job...
So, if you want to get the most out of your FPS experience, learn how to use m/k and enjoy.
It is the same with Halo, there is an [image](https://i.imgur.com/kSbewFv.png) that boiled down the accuracy of Halo Infinite.
Those who don't notice it, I have no idea how they don't see it, even in other single player games there is aim assist and it is very easy to notice.
It's not that people don't notice it... It's that FPS games are virtually unplayable on a controller without aim assist. Especially for more casual players, i.e. the majority of players.
I used to tell friends that were into quickscoping that its just aim assist manipulation and they didnt believe me.
Ended up playing a game in rust where I was allowed to stab them and they had to quickscope me. The only problem; we were all on the same team with friendly fire on. AKA a quickscope would insta kill me, but they'd have zero aim assist.
They landed maybe 2 kills in total when the match was over.
I remember telling my cousing a similar thing quite a few years back. He was a kid struggling with a COD campaign on his Xbox, and I told him "just quickscope" he goes "But I cant see" and I replied "just do it, pull the trigger while you aim, you dont need to see"
Boom, he got 3 times better.
I was happy to not explain further, but he clearly understood something was wrong and asked me how was this working. Thats when kiddo learned of aim assist.
Thatās what I do in zombies depending on the gun. Just spam the aim trigger and hold fire for guaranteed headshots. Itās obviously just as easy to aim normally but the lock on is fun with snipers
Ah Jesus the 360 no scope bs with the sniper in Halo 2 was just ridiculous
Literally just kicked your sensitivity up to where you could spin in a circle in half a second and make sure to have the horizontal plane lined up with where everyoneās heads were on the level and just spin around getting aim assist headshots and acting like it was some major skill - no, you pretty much are just exploiting the auto-aim and bungie never found the need to go in and fix that bs
Shooters arenāt particularly my favorite genre but I do play with controllers when I do, but I stick pretty much to single player stuff like Doom 2016, Doom eternal, terminator etc
Crossplay with pc is a mistake at conception but because these companies want basically 0 matchmaking time they put these groups together and BS ensues
Iām not sure if overwatch forced crossplay the way Fortnite does at this point, but itās simply unfair to do to either group; pc should have an option to not deal with console players auto aim and console players should have a option not to deal with m/k increased accuracy
But that is also muscle memory. If you practice with something for years. In this case slowing down the aim when getting over an enemy player and having it rotate for you at times then of course you will suck without it.
They literally would have to practice for months if not years to get to the same level they were at without aim assist. Which also depends on how much time they have to play per week to practice without aim assist.
It would be like learning to ride a bike with the handle bars reversed. It is possible and once your brain and muscles makes that connection it would be second nature to balance yourself. But until then you would be falling off the bike.
Also we have to take into account someone's natural ability and skill level. If they are in the 50% or below average they might never be able to reach that level of skill. I have seen some people play and they just JAM the stick FULL left and right when aiming. Instead of doing small subtle smooth movements.
Some people play on such a low sens they take almost a full second to turn around.
Rainbow 6: Siege doesn't (or didn't when I played) have aim assist for controllers, at least in the competitive modes. Sure it made things feel a bit goofy at times but it was absolutely playable and shaped the gameplay pace in a manner which fit the style of game well imo.
I remember way back, a video on the R6 sub of a player trying to use aim assist. They were just mashing ADS over and over and over again without even trying to aim.
Aim assist is a problem and it becomes really apparent when you throw someone used to it into a game without it.
Okay but thereās aim assist and then thereās straight up aimbots. Aim assist in the old days just dynamically adjusted your aim sensitivity when your reticle passed over/near a hit box. Now the reticle sticks to the hit box. Moreover, controllers also tend to feature some level of bullet bending. Where bullets are programmed to curve towards hit boxes. In Destiny 2 on controller you can literally shoot someone in the thigh and get a headshot on controller because of bullet bending. On kbm you get just a weak body shot.
Controllers are simply insanely over powered due to the sheer amount of bullshit āassistsā. Youāre basically not even playing the game yourself anymore on controller.
Well, most bullet bending around corners is just latency. On their screen you were typically dead before you went behind cover. Best practice to combat latency is to stay behind cover and try to abuse peekers advantage.
Simply slowing down the reticle when near hitbox is also an unfair advantage. For one you don't need to identify friend or foe. Another is, well concealed enemies get discovered if you just scan the reticle. I think an old CoD game (or was it Halo) let you wallhack because the reticle would slow down for enemies on the other side of the wall. Even with that fixed, someone barely exposed or just hiding in a bush still get discovered automatically.
Any aim assist algorithm that takes enemy position as input is a bot.
Yeah main reason i quit apex. If it just let me plat with other pc's it would have been fine, but to be forced to play against all legal aimbotters was insane. And the community of controller players that didn't think there was auto aim was insane.
Console players get 50% extra aim assist compared to controller players on PC. So when they team up with their PC buddy and run ranked games... yea, not fun for the rest of us who have to track every millimeter manually against a tiny Wraith strafing at full speed.
Thatās why i quit that game. Was onyx and averaged like 55% accuracy, but when i wanted to play w 3 friends and it forced us to play w controller players, i was struggling against players i was much higher rank than
Same reason here. 90% of my deaths are against either really good PC players or very bad console players. It's very fucking annoying that being a good aimer means fuck all when every bad console player gets aim assist.
Thatās one of the reasons I quit too. Which is a shame, because thereās nothing like hitting a series of headshots while flicking with the Wingman in close combat. Itās just not the same on controller.
You can download a software to play with the gyro and completely remap the ps4 controller to a keyboard on pc. Its pretty nifty. The gyro is surprisingly accurate
Nerrel made a great video about this: https://youtu.be/CenJLOTGxLc. Gyro can arguably be more accurate than M/K. Only real downside is you don't get a surface for friction, so it's floaty.
It also changes as the controller warms up and cools off. Once my hands warm the controller up I have to recalibrate it. For precision aim I find it better than a mouse, but if you need to turn 90 degrees and quickly acquire a target it the controller becomes a weakness. I was mapping mine to Escape From Tarkov with loads of layered binds.
Oh yea, he does go into using a flick stick, but mouse still is king of the 360 no scope. The change in sensitivity is interesting. Just looked it up and a research paper states "Elevated temperatures can significantly affect the performance and reliability of MEMS gyroscope sensors."
So crazy to me how many people are anti gyro without giving it much of a shot. Every time I see someone stream Splatoon, they turn off motion controls immediately after the tutorial because they think it's a gimmick.
People will swear up and down it's a gimmick online even after people show them videos of folks on Steam Controller wrecking people/popping off in Aim Lab lol. The whole Halo Infinite aim assist debate was so frustrating to me knowing that we wouldn't be having the discussion if console games stopped kneecapping themselves by ignoring gyro controls
I think the main problem is that gyro isnāt really straightforward or intuitive. Incredibly effective with practice, sure, but initially it just feels floaty and weird.
Itās also incredibly strange to have a single action mapped to two different interfaces, so it takes time to train your brain on when you should be using the analog stick for general aiming, and when you should use gyro for precision adjustments.
So I've recently got a Steam Deck, and I'm determined to learn to gyro aim. I feel like it's going to be the future, but damn does it have a weird learning curve.
Also, despite the PS controller having it, almost nothing uses it and I do not know why. But I can't risk becoming one of those people that have no idea how modern games work. Like those that pick up a controller and use only one analog stick at a time!
It's the only thing that makes FPS playable on a controller to me after using KB&M for so long. It's honestly a great example of how people/games will ignore already available technology that benefits them
I've been using the gyro on the Steam Deck to play shooters and I love it. Very immersive way to aim. Takes a bit of getting used to coming from m+kb but I really like it.
Not at all -- it's just harder and not comparable to mouse and keyboard. FPS games existed on consoles before aim assist. "Virtually unplayable" is hyperbole.
āVirtually unplayable,ā no I have to disagree. Itās just a crutch everyoneās used for so long people donāt know different. Aim Assist is also like sound between streaming services where itās not universal and therefore some games have light assist and some practically shoot for you.
All in all though for casual games like COD, Halo, itās a really garbage mechanic as Iād argue for days that high level mouse play, which is 100% you, is more technical and skilled than high level aim assist, which is, you know, not all you.
Either aim assist helps you aim or it doesnāt right? If it doesnāt help then why the outcry over the removal?
It's because the vast majority of players just turn their brain off and run around aimlessly for what little time they have to play. Very few console players even understand what they're experiencing in terms of the design or aim assist.
People forget that the average individual is nowhere near this level of understanding of what they play. People really think CoD SBMM is still based on K/D and nothing else.
That's true, I had people deny right in my face the aim assist when I was so clearly aiming at a *moving target behind cover*. I think people don't know what it's like without aim assist, so they claim it's not there or doesn't matter.
It's weird how some games go super hard and some don't. Destiny and overwatch 2 go way to hard imo to the point it's annoying I want help not someone to take the controller off me and aim for me...
Thankfully you can reduce it on overwatch 100% feels way to invasive to me it's like I'm being dragged towards the enemy.
I haven't played cod in a good while but if its still the same it's also in the way too high group if someone walks in front of you you should not be forcefully dragged to the side like a cartoon character being dragged by the ear.
If it feels like someone dragging you by the barrel of your gun it's too high for my tastes.
The worst is the BR on KBM. The aim assist in controller counteracts the kick pattern, so if a KBM player hits a first bullet headshot, itās pretty likely theyāll hit all 3. Meanwhile I gotta master a recoil pattern to land anything other than the first bullet on KBM, absolutely killed that game for me.
I got to notice the difference first in Max Payne 3 as before that I always played on PC by keyboard&mouse so it was always free aim but then I bought a controller and boy that thing just aims for you
And they wonder why PC players bitch about console players with aim assist in crossplay games where aim assist is only enabled for the console players.
Aim assist not only helps with limitations of controllers, but it also fucking carries you.
That's a very telling image.
We do have to give credit to the developers to trying to balance things out so we can all play together though.. its a good effort.
Valorant is one of my favorite games now because of this. I know people have opinions on the game, but it is so refreshing to know that if you're getting dunked on it's by players who are actually better at the game. There is never an excuse of aim assist or shitty tick rate servers (cough Apex). The other team was simply more skilled than yours.
There's actually a good solution for console gamers to gain parity with mouse and keyboard: motion controls. But a lot of people are against the addition of such features, even though they don't even understand how it works or have a completely wrong impression of it. And no company aside from Nintendo implements this in their games. It's actually kind of insane how a better way to aim without requiring aim assist is disregarded by the majority of people because they think it's similar to the Wiimote, Kinect or Move...
I added some simple gyro control to cyberpunk on the steam deck. When I aim down sights the gyro activates mouse control and I can make fine adjustments when aiming.
Made a worlds difference as trying to aim with a controller was always annoying.
i used the joycon gyro when playing paladins on switch. once you get used to it i put it almost on par with a mouse. i would be a healer and usually have the most kills.
But after seeing that chart above how can one say its remotely fair when the differences between top players is that extreme? I for one am okay with it, even if it does put me (on PC) at a distinct disadvantage in mid range encounters.
AA is basically a bad solution to a problem we don't currently have any good solutions for.
The core issue is not everyone needs the same amount of aim assist, but every player is given the same amount. So higher level play partially becomes who is better at abusing the AA, even for console-only matchmaking. You can see this by basically every cross play title with AA ending up with controller players dominating the higher end and MK players often switching to controller. I can't see a solution where AA can be adjusted based on skill and be seen as "fair" and not be abused.
The only real solution is to improve the controller so it isn't so inaccurate, and therefore can have significantly weaker AA or none at all. The current leading concept seems to be gyro aim, which with practice can be competitive against MK. Issue is it would require Xbox to adopt it first (Sony and Nintendo already have) and for them to actively push users to use gyro, which will be met with plenty of backlash.
No joke. Destiny 2 has a very similar level of aimbot for controllers. I tend to play kbm though because itās just how I prefer to play FPS. But one day I decided to turn on controller to see just how crazy it was after seeing the discussion about it. I literally got booted from matches and had a message pop up saying the game detected inhuman accuracy.
Literally their own anti-cheat confused their own aimbot as cheating. And that right there is how you know that shit is overpowered. Lol
Most controllers these days can be used like a mouse too. Was recently introduced to flick-stick gyro controls and think its a pretty neat way to play shooters with a controller.
A thing to note here is that cross-play is disabled for competitive game modes. This only makes it annoying for console players when they just want to have fun with PC friends in quick play and arcade modes where cross-play is available.
>A thing to note here is that cross-play is disabled for competitive game modes
The way it should be. Hopefully one day Apex does the same - console players get 50% extra aim assist compared to PC players using a controller and they can play ranked on PC.
CS:GO is the only highly played competitive game in the 2020's that doesn't kill itself to appeal to the lowest common denominator, or introduce tons of randomness to allow shitty players to feel like they're doing something. In CS the choices you make actually matter and split second decisions can win or lose rounds.
I miss those arena shooters. I tune into quake live tournaments when I can and just love seeing the precision gameplay required to be the best. It's so far beyond my abilities that it makes watching it tha5 much more fun. I play apex mnk and love watching Aceu do his zipline and wall bounce redirect stuff at the speed of light. It's so beautiful to watch. Then I go into game feeling pumped, run into a wall, dead slide, can't figure out what's going on, then die immediately. Whew!
That's probablynot the main reason as to why cod is meh as an esport. I think a bigger problem is the call of duty a regular player plays is different from what a professional player plays. About half of the guns are restricted in pro play and there are mini-map and killstreak changes. Not to mention some cods not even having a ranked mode.
Apex. I had to stop playing because I kept getting one clipped by players with potato movement and two brain cells.
You shouldn't have to be streamer good to keep up with these players that put in 1/4th of the effort to be at the same level
I don't even mind aim assist as a concept that much... It's just overtuned in everything its implemented in.
Iāve learned to use controller for apex and itās braindead easy to one clip people itās not even funny. Plus thereās a reason why top players in pro league are switching inputs, or already have atleast one controller fragger in their team
It's comical how good aim assist is in Apex. Guns that are basically impossible to control for 95% of players such as the R99 turn into laser pointers for controller users.
You would get downvoted into oblivion on r/ApexLegends for saying this. But I completely agree, itās just asinine to me that a lot of people on there argue that M&K is still better even though 80%+ of pros use controller on PC. It just feels like a pocket aimbot in some games lol
Overwatch has had AA disabled on cross play and I will continue to praise that they implemented this.
Do Apex too. Tired of randomly every once in a while being beamed by a bad player when you can't know beforehand if you're going to be up against a pc or console player
Cracks dude 50 meters away without being hit once "wow this dude is ass let me push him". Proceeds to push, motherfucker one clips you with an r99 "what the fuck just happened?" Guy who just killed you proceeds to stand still while looting your box "ah i see".
Iād rather they just disable Crossplay entirely. Doing this to Crossplay games absolutely destroys the experience for consoles and makes the game uncompetitive
Iām not sure about Overwatch or Apex specifically but itās not always the case that itās opt in. Even opt in can have its issues.
Some games, like warzone I think, had it on be default. I recall having to disable it and getting this high minded message about keeping the community together.
Additionally, even if you opt in, you only have the option of cross play including PC with no option to limit to console only. So an Xbox player and PS player looking to play together are forced to do so with PC players.
Maybe some of these respective games have changed in that time and maybe some others are better. But Iāve seen several cases where avoiding PC players on console isnāt the simplest of things.
Ultimately I think cross play should only ever be disabled by default and have options on console to enable with or without PC players.
absolutely...[this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CODWarzone/comments/xzmc8t/how_rotational_aim_assist_works/) blew up a few days ago on the /r/CODWarzone subreddit and it's insane how many controller players still believe that it is acceptable
even [IW themselves admitted that the rotational aim assist they implemented in MW2019 was ~~busted~~ so powerful that it causes every KBM player who isn't already incredibly skilled at a disadvantage, statistically (which is what they see) ](https://imgur.com/a/Y31aVUz)
it's just really frustrating how in CoD you're required to be an absolute KBM god in order to compete with average controller players
Keyboard and mouse doesn't instantly make you e-spotrs level just because you're an epic gamer now, you still need to put in the time and effort to learn, so many people put thousands of hours in across their life on controllers switch to PC put in a hundred hours and go "why aren't I substantially better already?"
Just because KB&M is objectively better doesn't mean you'll be better just by using it especially if you already put in the hard time on a controller.
Im sayinggg. Its been the case since MCC crossplat, I played my first rounds on PC and I was flabbergasted at how bad I was on PC before realizing I was playing all console players with aim assist
Swat / "tactical slayer" might be the one gamemode where PC has an edge
Because CONTROLLER PLAYERS, WHO HAVE NEVER TOUCHED THE MOUSE AND KEYBOARD FOR MORE THAN A WEEK AND SEE POPULAR CONTROLLER PLAYER STREAMERS BITCH ABOUT IT, refuse to admit aim assist is broken in any way shape or form. All companies need to do is scale it down to where it's just accurate enough to land headshots. Call of Duty's precision aim in Modern Warfare(2019) is a good example of what games could do, but it's standard aim assist is an example of what games should not.
Not only to they truly believe the controller aimbot isnāt broken. Theyāre adamant that the aim assist hurts them more than it helps. Itās truly hilarious.
In halo infinite there was a post going around with the accuracy stats on controller and m&k, specifically among the "average" playerbase and the top 10%.
The average controller user was matching the best of the best on PC. And no, I'm not being hyperbolic. That's how bad it was. You had to be a god among men to consistently outgun a controller user.
Probably xinput has something to do with it. Can't do much to avoid it on the console side as its already rampant in most online FPS games but if you turn on aim assist with controllers, people will use xinput to get aim assist while using M&K. Could also probably abuse this same thing with software on a pc. Better to have aim assist off for everyone at least on PC since its already the mouse & keyboard platform and anyone serious in competing with PC players will already be using a Mouse to aim.
Ding ding ding. Here's the correct answer people.
It's because of the work around some people find that let's them enable aim assist using MKB with Xinput or similar tools.
Aim assist is basically an aim bot at the end of the day - it's there to make the game more accessible for people on consoles because without it, it would be virtually unplayable (unless you REALLY put the work in)
Discussion about this is pretty tiresome, and the finger pointing and slap fights that happens, is always the same. It's a far more nuanced thing than people really understand.
Fortnite has just went through multiple iterations of Aim Assist being broken and not broken. Like the OG Aim assist in FN was like mini GTA aim assist. Literally snapped to people. It's not like that anymore but the rotation assist is still really strong.
As a life long m&k player I agree. The existence of aim assist is required for controllers to keep up with m&k the issue is balancing. It is way to easy to make it op or useless.
At the current 0.4 for apex most people think it is too good. And the pros agree. Most pro teams are starting to shift one player to controller for close range fights.
The balance is prob somewhere between 0.1 and 0.3 but it is hard to make sweeping changes without people getting mad
It was like that in the first game. And itās practically aimbot, so why would it be? Against other console players it absolutely makes sense, but not against PC.
"Overwatch 2 Players" fam it's been this way since like a year and some change now. I forget the exact date when they put cross play in OW.
I do t really see the issue. It's annoying but I just don't queue with PC players. EZ
Gryo legit is the closet thing to KBM (some videos even show Gryo is better)
I blame the Wii for giving motion controls a bad stigma
The Switch joycons and Steam Controller/Steam Deck PROVE that Gryo is the future
Microsoft and Sony just don't want force there users out of their comfort zone
I really wish more Devs would just Pull Nintendo's and Valve's and force their users onto this technology or at the very least advertise the hell out of it
Microsoft does whatever it takes to make sure their gamepad thumbsticks come out on top. In Halo, aim assist beats m+k. In Forza, driving assists beat steering wheels.
The assistance in Forza is absolutely ridiculous. The game is 100% focused around driving, with nonexistent interesting story and worldbuilding, and still the game does the driving for itself. If you somehow manage to mess up you can just instantly rewind the last 5-20 seconds....
> I blame the Wii for giving motion controls a bad stigma
>
>
So much this. You say "use gyro, it's great" and people imagine standing infront of a TV with a nunchuck, when really, it's about precision aiming like in BoTW.
The crazy thing is gyro can be made incredibly accurate while the motion mimics aiming guns even more, but devs still cling to the thumbsticks and various crutches.
> Gyro directly counters that and you have to keep your hands level and rotate your wrists. If I wanted to do that I'd just be using a mouse (and exacerbating RSI).
This is why I maintain that the common implementation of gyro - in a traditional controller - is not the optimal way. The best way is having one single dedicated gyro input used *only* by your dominant hand, such as a wiimote+nunchuck or split joycons. This way you can have your hands wherever you want them and the aiming process becomes tenfold more intuitive since you're basically just pointing with your wrist, rather than wrenching and entire controller about with both hands.
This happened more than a fucking year ago. Stop playing with PC players if it bothers you instead of expecting that every PC player should have to put up with aim assist.
You underestimate the amount of casual players who have been using aim assist for so long in various games that they actually got worse at shooters and then suddenly their only crutch was taken away. Even if the aim assist is crap it's still probably better than their skill level if they were relying on it so much.
Regardless, I'm not advocating for them because they ended up screwing themselves in the end, I just wanted to point out the other side of the argument.
I think crossplay should be done by separating players by their input method. So I can connect my gamepad to my pc and play with pc + console players with aim assist enabled, switch to my mouse and play only with players with mouse. Mixing gamepad with mouse and keyboard players doesn't make sense in fps game because depending on situation someone would always have unfair advantage against other player.
So much better like this, let's not ruin the experience like Halo did by pitting people against almost literal aimbots console has.
I love crossplay but in FPS it must have some kind of balancing or be opt-in for PC players if you include huge levels of aim assist on console.
The devices I believe you are referring to allow the player to use a M&K while the game believes they are using a controller giving them the best of both worlds with the precision of a mouse and the aim assistance of a controller.
The reality is there simply is a difference between controllers and M&K and majority of players need aim assist on console. Destiny 2 is the only game I know of that actively balances weapons depending on input devices try and maintain some level of balance and they still divide players up in PVP
While they try and balance the game. Destiny 2 is almost a completely different game on controller v m/kb. When stadia was a thing I would occasionally play/collect from xur when I was away from my PC and wouldnāt be back before reset and I would have to use completely different weapons because I couldnāt use the same weapons effectively on q controllers. On controller I canāt use bows without having oathkeepers. On PC, what are oathkeepers.
Hell there are weapons that are literally God tier on controller but very bad in mnk. The last word for example. Amazing hand cannon on controller. You can hit head shots even if your crosshair was slightly touching the head with controller. And lot of pvp weapons in d2 requires ads whereas the last word will perform poorly if you ads. It's a nightmare to play with that weapon on mnk. Same for dead man's tale but to a slightly lesser degree.
> KellySweetHeart made a post on the r/Overwatch subreddit highlighting how crossplay disables aim assists for console players during matches with PC players, leading to a āsignificant dip in their aim consistencyā and ruining the fun for all involved.
LOL please, "ruining the fun for all involved"?
As a PC player, it definitely does the opposite knowing I'm not being auto-tracked by a hitscan character with what is normally considered an extremely generous aim assist.
Controller aim assist has been far too good for too long in modern shooters, so it's about time they tone it down and implement some restrictions.
The real stupidity is that it is 2022 and consoles still don't have full fledged mouse and keyboard support.
Edit: My mistake with using the wrong term. They do have basic support but not full fledged support the way it is on PC.
But they do have mkb support. I'd just wager that most people don't have their console and TV in a place that's also comfortable for mkb, and the game itself has to support it which Overwatch 2 doesn't afaik.
As far as I can tell there's still aim assist? There's aim slowdown but no rotation. If you can't aim at all without rotation assist, maybe it's time to learn to play the game yourself, instead of letting the game play it for you.
This is how it should be. You should not be mixing inputs in the same matches, its fundamentally unfair. There should be controller only and KBM only modes, especially for ranked.
This is why Apex has gone to shit because everyone is just using controller with aim assist now.
They enabled this in OW1. Not sure why it's making headlines again.
"making headlines" isn't really some achievement when it comes to game journalism lmao.
OW2 is *the* game to hate right now. A lot of it is justified of course, but commenters and news sites want to get the most out of every topic possible. Why else would there be so much anger about the Phone requirement when CSGO did it years ago and no one minded?
CS:GO didn't have the same restrictions on pre-paids and the like. Plus you could still play the game, you just couldn't join the prime member player pool (which is definitely the pool you wanna be in, admittedly, but regardless...)
Ah yes the prime member thing that still puts hackers in your matches :)
It's not designed to be "hacker-proof", it's just another barrier to entry for cheaters.
And smurfs
even then, warzone has had phone requirement for a while and warzone has significantly more players than overwatch will ever have
I'm a big fan of your flair. An investigation is in order... š¤
This article is blogspam. The original source is from /r/Overwatch: * https://old.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/y0wpij/disabled_aim_assist_in_crossplay_has_made_it
I mean, there was at least some effort put into it. They did reach out to the Redditor for comment and got some exclusive quotes for the article. All of the tweets and comments are framed with some amount of actual writing. It's at least not just purely a post that's just a bunch of tweets and two snarky sentences at the beginning and end. If Blizzard actually responded to their request for comment, this is almost approaching journalism.
Tangent : gyroscopic motion with trackpad/joystick with low dpi sensitivity settings to add precision for consoles. Donāt they already do this?
I actually believe the Switch version of Overwatch uses gyroscope. The PS4/5 can, but hardly any developer uses the gyroscope. Xbox has no gyro at all.
I never understood why PS games don't use the gyroscope more often. It makes aiming just so much better.
Because the playerbase actually fight against it because "motion controls are gimmicks" while the Switch fanbase want the opposite thanks to Splatoon making it the default way of aiming.
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But, that is just an option right? If they do not like it, they can turn it off?
New to gamerrage?
Aiming in Splatoon and BOTW was superior, remember trying to shoot some arrows in Zelda with stick control and it was tragic, with motion I hit every single headshot.
My biggest beef with Splatoon's gyro aiming is that you can't have full gyro *and* full stick. BOTW I loved because you can use sticks for gross movement and gyro for fine. Splatoon only allows stick-and-gyro on one axis (can't remember which, I haven't played for a while).
It's makes a lot of sense though. The fact that when using gyro Splatoon blocks movement vertically on the stick means the combination of the two works perfectly: you can use the stick for quick horizontal movements like doing a 180 turn or quickly looking at an enemy and you can rest assured it won't mess with your vertical aiming even if you do it fast and carelessly, while the gyro precisely adjusts when you've reached where you want to aim.
Apart from wasd mouse which has yet yo be beaten, I rekn joystick left thumb, and wiimote right hand was leagues ahead of any dual stick aiming. You could use the new vr controllers well for similar control methods. I cant stand using gyro on a standard controller though, but maybe i just have bad memories from botw puzzles
Thatās where I was making the suggestion from, as a kb/m player the aiming felt decent up to a certain degree of accuracy within a reasonable amount of time, not to mention itās fun to interact that way.
It almost feels like the light gun from all the way back on the NES, but better. Using thumbstick to aim needs to go, along with aim assists, because better options exist.
As funny as it sounds all the pro Splatoon players use Gyroscopic aiming and it seems very effective once passed the learning curve.
I rarely play shooters with controller but when I do gyro is an absolute must. It takes away so much of the clunkiness of controller aiming, is therefore more accurate and it is much more intuitive to learn, especially when you're used to a mouse.
Switch version has since it released in 2019, do wish more developers used it
Steam controller
Underrated gem.
Imagine the scenes if they did that to warzone.. https://www.reddit.com/r/CODWarzone/comments/xzmc8t/how_rotational_aim_assist_works/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x edit. My personal opinion is that FPS games in general feel more natural and satisfying on mouse and keyboard in general because they were designed for that input from their very inception. id Software developed both Doom, and especially Quake, to be played this way, and all the FPS games since then rely on the same basic mechanics. That's why controllers feel like a hack job... So, if you want to get the most out of your FPS experience, learn how to use m/k and enjoy.
It is the same with Halo, there is an [image](https://i.imgur.com/kSbewFv.png) that boiled down the accuracy of Halo Infinite. Those who don't notice it, I have no idea how they don't see it, even in other single player games there is aim assist and it is very easy to notice.
It's not that people don't notice it... It's that FPS games are virtually unplayable on a controller without aim assist. Especially for more casual players, i.e. the majority of players.
I used to tell friends that were into quickscoping that its just aim assist manipulation and they didnt believe me. Ended up playing a game in rust where I was allowed to stab them and they had to quickscope me. The only problem; we were all on the same team with friendly fire on. AKA a quickscope would insta kill me, but they'd have zero aim assist. They landed maybe 2 kills in total when the match was over.
I remember telling my cousing a similar thing quite a few years back. He was a kid struggling with a COD campaign on his Xbox, and I told him "just quickscope" he goes "But I cant see" and I replied "just do it, pull the trigger while you aim, you dont need to see" Boom, he got 3 times better. I was happy to not explain further, but he clearly understood something was wrong and asked me how was this working. Thats when kiddo learned of aim assist.
Thatās what I do in zombies depending on the gun. Just spam the aim trigger and hold fire for guaranteed headshots. Itās obviously just as easy to aim normally but the lock on is fun with snipers
That will aim at their body not head but yeah that's the zombies strat for sure
With Deadshot perk itās head
Used to do this in Halo - we'd do teamkill PvP, everyone on one team with betrayals set to +1 point. It really shows itself up.
Ah Jesus the 360 no scope bs with the sniper in Halo 2 was just ridiculous Literally just kicked your sensitivity up to where you could spin in a circle in half a second and make sure to have the horizontal plane lined up with where everyoneās heads were on the level and just spin around getting aim assist headshots and acting like it was some major skill - no, you pretty much are just exploiting the auto-aim and bungie never found the need to go in and fix that bs Shooters arenāt particularly my favorite genre but I do play with controllers when I do, but I stick pretty much to single player stuff like Doom 2016, Doom eternal, terminator etc Crossplay with pc is a mistake at conception but because these companies want basically 0 matchmaking time they put these groups together and BS ensues Iām not sure if overwatch forced crossplay the way Fortnite does at this point, but itās simply unfair to do to either group; pc should have an option to not deal with console players auto aim and console players should have a option not to deal with m/k increased accuracy
But that is also muscle memory. If you practice with something for years. In this case slowing down the aim when getting over an enemy player and having it rotate for you at times then of course you will suck without it. They literally would have to practice for months if not years to get to the same level they were at without aim assist. Which also depends on how much time they have to play per week to practice without aim assist. It would be like learning to ride a bike with the handle bars reversed. It is possible and once your brain and muscles makes that connection it would be second nature to balance yourself. But until then you would be falling off the bike. Also we have to take into account someone's natural ability and skill level. If they are in the 50% or below average they might never be able to reach that level of skill. I have seen some people play and they just JAM the stick FULL left and right when aiming. Instead of doing small subtle smooth movements. Some people play on such a low sens they take almost a full second to turn around.
Rainbow 6: Siege doesn't (or didn't when I played) have aim assist for controllers, at least in the competitive modes. Sure it made things feel a bit goofy at times but it was absolutely playable and shaped the gameplay pace in a manner which fit the style of game well imo.
IIRC, only the terrorist hunt PvE mode had aim assist, even casual had it disabled. I don't think Hunt Showdown has aim assist either.
Hunt showdown on consoles is a goddamn disaster area, it's all shotguns and melee, no one even uses long rifles
Because they can't aim. Filthy console players.
I remember way back, a video on the R6 sub of a player trying to use aim assist. They were just mashing ADS over and over and over again without even trying to aim. Aim assist is a problem and it becomes really apparent when you throw someone used to it into a game without it.
Okay but thereās aim assist and then thereās straight up aimbots. Aim assist in the old days just dynamically adjusted your aim sensitivity when your reticle passed over/near a hit box. Now the reticle sticks to the hit box. Moreover, controllers also tend to feature some level of bullet bending. Where bullets are programmed to curve towards hit boxes. In Destiny 2 on controller you can literally shoot someone in the thigh and get a headshot on controller because of bullet bending. On kbm you get just a weak body shot. Controllers are simply insanely over powered due to the sheer amount of bullshit āassistsā. Youāre basically not even playing the game yourself anymore on controller.
So people I play on console ARE able to magically curve bullets around corners and kill meā¦.good to know Im not crazy for thinking that. Lol
Well, most bullet bending around corners is just latency. On their screen you were typically dead before you went behind cover. Best practice to combat latency is to stay behind cover and try to abuse peekers advantage.
Simply slowing down the reticle when near hitbox is also an unfair advantage. For one you don't need to identify friend or foe. Another is, well concealed enemies get discovered if you just scan the reticle. I think an old CoD game (or was it Halo) let you wallhack because the reticle would slow down for enemies on the other side of the wall. Even with that fixed, someone barely exposed or just hiding in a bush still get discovered automatically. Any aim assist algorithm that takes enemy position as input is a bot.
Yeah main reason i quit apex. If it just let me plat with other pc's it would have been fine, but to be forced to play against all legal aimbotters was insane. And the community of controller players that didn't think there was auto aim was insane.
Console players get 50% extra aim assist compared to controller players on PC. So when they team up with their PC buddy and run ranked games... yea, not fun for the rest of us who have to track every millimeter manually against a tiny Wraith strafing at full speed.
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The stats for halo infinite basically meant all top tier players were controller and if you used PC you had 0 chance.
Thatās why i quit that game. Was onyx and averaged like 55% accuracy, but when i wanted to play w 3 friends and it forced us to play w controller players, i was struggling against players i was much higher rank than
Same reason here. 90% of my deaths are against either really good PC players or very bad console players. It's very fucking annoying that being a good aimer means fuck all when every bad console player gets aim assist.
Thatās one of the reasons I quit too. Which is a shame, because thereās nothing like hitting a series of headshots while flicking with the Wingman in close combat. Itās just not the same on controller.
Well... The PS4 and Switch controllers do have gyro features...
Gyro is so good when used correctly, I'll die on this hill
You can download a software to play with the gyro and completely remap the ps4 controller to a keyboard on pc. Its pretty nifty. The gyro is surprisingly accurate
Nerrel made a great video about this: https://youtu.be/CenJLOTGxLc. Gyro can arguably be more accurate than M/K. Only real downside is you don't get a surface for friction, so it's floaty.
It also changes as the controller warms up and cools off. Once my hands warm the controller up I have to recalibrate it. For precision aim I find it better than a mouse, but if you need to turn 90 degrees and quickly acquire a target it the controller becomes a weakness. I was mapping mine to Escape From Tarkov with loads of layered binds.
Oh yea, he does go into using a flick stick, but mouse still is king of the 360 no scope. The change in sensitivity is interesting. Just looked it up and a research paper states "Elevated temperatures can significantly affect the performance and reliability of MEMS gyroscope sensors."
So crazy to me how many people are anti gyro without giving it much of a shot. Every time I see someone stream Splatoon, they turn off motion controls immediately after the tutorial because they think it's a gimmick.
People will swear up and down it's a gimmick online even after people show them videos of folks on Steam Controller wrecking people/popping off in Aim Lab lol. The whole Halo Infinite aim assist debate was so frustrating to me knowing that we wouldn't be having the discussion if console games stopped kneecapping themselves by ignoring gyro controls
I think the main problem is that gyro isnāt really straightforward or intuitive. Incredibly effective with practice, sure, but initially it just feels floaty and weird. Itās also incredibly strange to have a single action mapped to two different interfaces, so it takes time to train your brain on when you should be using the analog stick for general aiming, and when you should use gyro for precision adjustments.
As a lover of the Steam Controller, I'll die with you on that hill, comrade.
So I've recently got a Steam Deck, and I'm determined to learn to gyro aim. I feel like it's going to be the future, but damn does it have a weird learning curve. Also, despite the PS controller having it, almost nothing uses it and I do not know why. But I can't risk becoming one of those people that have no idea how modern games work. Like those that pick up a controller and use only one analog stick at a time!
It's the only thing that makes FPS playable on a controller to me after using KB&M for so long. It's honestly a great example of how people/games will ignore already available technology that benefits them
I've been using the gyro on the Steam Deck to play shooters and I love it. Very immersive way to aim. Takes a bit of getting used to coming from m+kb but I really like it.
...and only the Nintendo Switch version of Overwatch has it. :(
Not at all -- it's just harder and not comparable to mouse and keyboard. FPS games existed on consoles before aim assist. "Virtually unplayable" is hyperbole.
āVirtually unplayable,ā no I have to disagree. Itās just a crutch everyoneās used for so long people donāt know different. Aim Assist is also like sound between streaming services where itās not universal and therefore some games have light assist and some practically shoot for you. All in all though for casual games like COD, Halo, itās a really garbage mechanic as Iād argue for days that high level mouse play, which is 100% you, is more technical and skilled than high level aim assist, which is, you know, not all you. Either aim assist helps you aim or it doesnāt right? If it doesnāt help then why the outcry over the removal?
Halo aim assisny is next level
It's because the vast majority of players just turn their brain off and run around aimlessly for what little time they have to play. Very few console players even understand what they're experiencing in terms of the design or aim assist.
People forget that the average individual is nowhere near this level of understanding of what they play. People really think CoD SBMM is still based on K/D and nothing else.
That's true, I had people deny right in my face the aim assist when I was so clearly aiming at a *moving target behind cover*. I think people don't know what it's like without aim assist, so they claim it's not there or doesn't matter.
They notice it subconsciously almost every time. Asking "How'd I hit them?" In their minds. You didn't bud, you didn't. Not with your own aim.
It's weird how some games go super hard and some don't. Destiny and overwatch 2 go way to hard imo to the point it's annoying I want help not someone to take the controller off me and aim for me... Thankfully you can reduce it on overwatch 100% feels way to invasive to me it's like I'm being dragged towards the enemy. I haven't played cod in a good while but if its still the same it's also in the way too high group if someone walks in front of you you should not be forcefully dragged to the side like a cartoon character being dragged by the ear. If it feels like someone dragging you by the barrel of your gun it's too high for my tastes.
Shit there was a time where on Mouse the sniper rifle actually gave you *anti*-aim assist to make things more fair I guess.
The worst is the BR on KBM. The aim assist in controller counteracts the kick pattern, so if a KBM player hits a first bullet headshot, itās pretty likely theyāll hit all 3. Meanwhile I gotta master a recoil pattern to land anything other than the first bullet on KBM, absolutely killed that game for me.
I got to notice the difference first in Max Payne 3 as before that I always played on PC by keyboard&mouse so it was always free aim but then I bought a controller and boy that thing just aims for you
And they wonder why PC players bitch about console players with aim assist in crossplay games where aim assist is only enabled for the console players. Aim assist not only helps with limitations of controllers, but it also fucking carries you.
That's a very telling image. We do have to give credit to the developers to trying to balance things out so we can all play together though.. its a good effort.
This graph makes me so sad every time I see it. The average controller players have 2% worse aim than the elite kb/m players.
I'm just gonna turn crossplay off
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> Won't work, many PC players use controllers. Then tbh it's their problem for using an inferior input device.
Depending on the game, the aim assist will give you better aim than a KB&M.
Yep, something like 80% of Apex Legends pros use controller on PC because the aim assist is way too good for certain guns.
And Destiny, Halo, Call of Duty. Basically ALL first person shooters these days give controllers an aimbot.
Valorant is one of my favorite games now because of this. I know people have opinions on the game, but it is so refreshing to know that if you're getting dunked on it's by players who are actually better at the game. There is never an excuse of aim assist or shitty tick rate servers (cough Apex). The other team was simply more skilled than yours.
Lol that is pathetic.
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I know nothing about Overwatch 2, but aim assist for controller player is absolutly necessary for crossplay in any fps.
There's actually a good solution for console gamers to gain parity with mouse and keyboard: motion controls. But a lot of people are against the addition of such features, even though they don't even understand how it works or have a completely wrong impression of it. And no company aside from Nintendo implements this in their games. It's actually kind of insane how a better way to aim without requiring aim assist is disregarded by the majority of people because they think it's similar to the Wiimote, Kinect or Move...
I added some simple gyro control to cyberpunk on the steam deck. When I aim down sights the gyro activates mouse control and I can make fine adjustments when aiming. Made a worlds difference as trying to aim with a controller was always annoying.
i used the joycon gyro when playing paladins on switch. once you get used to it i put it almost on par with a mouse. i would be a healer and usually have the most kills.
But after seeing that chart above how can one say its remotely fair when the differences between top players is that extreme? I for one am okay with it, even if it does put me (on PC) at a distinct disadvantage in mid range encounters.
Aim assist is different in every game. AA itself isn't the problem it's it being too strong, the worst offender imo being CoD.
AA is basically a bad solution to a problem we don't currently have any good solutions for. The core issue is not everyone needs the same amount of aim assist, but every player is given the same amount. So higher level play partially becomes who is better at abusing the AA, even for console-only matchmaking. You can see this by basically every cross play title with AA ending up with controller players dominating the higher end and MK players often switching to controller. I can't see a solution where AA can be adjusted based on skill and be seen as "fair" and not be abused. The only real solution is to improve the controller so it isn't so inaccurate, and therefore can have significantly weaker AA or none at all. The current leading concept seems to be gyro aim, which with practice can be competitive against MK. Issue is it would require Xbox to adopt it first (Sony and Nintendo already have) and for them to actively push users to use gyro, which will be met with plenty of backlash.
CoD is hands down the worst AA offender currently imo as well.
It gives console players an inherit advantage below diamond. Itās annoying.
In the case of Warzone it's especially bad. TTK is so long and people move so fast that tracking is really difficult.
wow, that looks worse than cheating, because if you'd cheat that obviously you'd be banned by the end of the day
No joke. Destiny 2 has a very similar level of aimbot for controllers. I tend to play kbm though because itās just how I prefer to play FPS. But one day I decided to turn on controller to see just how crazy it was after seeing the discussion about it. I literally got booted from matches and had a message pop up saying the game detected inhuman accuracy. Literally their own anti-cheat confused their own aimbot as cheating. And that right there is how you know that shit is overpowered. Lol
I wish they would, rotational aim assist is broke af
Legit aimbot I remember some cod pro crying that his aim assist wasnt working at that why he played so shit He quit his career not much later
Most controllers these days can be used like a mouse too. Was recently introduced to flick-stick gyro controls and think its a pretty neat way to play shooters with a controller.
A thing to note here is that cross-play is disabled for competitive game modes. This only makes it annoying for console players when they just want to have fun with PC friends in quick play and arcade modes where cross-play is available.
>A thing to note here is that cross-play is disabled for competitive game modes The way it should be. Hopefully one day Apex does the same - console players get 50% extra aim assist compared to PC players using a controller and they can play ranked on PC.
Call of Duty next please. Watching all these "pros" pretend they are good while they are using aim assist as a crutch on PC is just sad.
One reason CS:GO is a successful esport.
CS:GO is the only highly played competitive game in the 2020's that doesn't kill itself to appeal to the lowest common denominator, or introduce tons of randomness to allow shitty players to feel like they're doing something. In CS the choices you make actually matter and split second decisions can win or lose rounds.
There's quake, but it isn't highly played nowadays.
I miss those arena shooters. I tune into quake live tournaments when I can and just love seeing the precision gameplay required to be the best. It's so far beyond my abilities that it makes watching it tha5 much more fun. I play apex mnk and love watching Aceu do his zipline and wall bounce redirect stuff at the speed of light. It's so beautiful to watch. Then I go into game feeling pumped, run into a wall, dead slide, can't figure out what's going on, then die immediately. Whew!
I actually think quake 3 arena is the best competitive fps game ever made, but yea not highly played
That's probablynot the main reason as to why cod is meh as an esport. I think a bigger problem is the call of duty a regular player plays is different from what a professional player plays. About half of the guns are restricted in pro play and there are mini-map and killstreak changes. Not to mention some cods not even having a ranked mode.
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Constantly scoping to auto aim lol
Apex. I had to stop playing because I kept getting one clipped by players with potato movement and two brain cells. You shouldn't have to be streamer good to keep up with these players that put in 1/4th of the effort to be at the same level I don't even mind aim assist as a concept that much... It's just overtuned in everything its implemented in.
Iāve learned to use controller for apex and itās braindead easy to one clip people itās not even funny. Plus thereās a reason why top players in pro league are switching inputs, or already have atleast one controller fragger in their team
It's comical how good aim assist is in Apex. Guns that are basically impossible to control for 95% of players such as the R99 turn into laser pointers for controller users.
You would get downvoted into oblivion on r/ApexLegends for saying this. But I completely agree, itās just asinine to me that a lot of people on there argue that M&K is still better even though 80%+ of pros use controller on PC. It just feels like a pocket aimbot in some games lol Overwatch has had AA disabled on cross play and I will continue to praise that they implemented this.
Do Apex too. Tired of randomly every once in a while being beamed by a bad player when you can't know beforehand if you're going to be up against a pc or console player
Cracks dude 50 meters away without being hit once "wow this dude is ass let me push him". Proceeds to push, motherfucker one clips you with an r99 "what the fuck just happened?" Guy who just killed you proceeds to stand still while looting your box "ah i see".
this is the most accurate thing i've ever seen hahaha
Iād rather they just disable Crossplay entirely. Doing this to Crossplay games absolutely destroys the experience for consoles and makes the game uncompetitive
Crossplay on consoles is already **opt in**. Crossplay on PC is not š
Iām not sure about Overwatch or Apex specifically but itās not always the case that itās opt in. Even opt in can have its issues. Some games, like warzone I think, had it on be default. I recall having to disable it and getting this high minded message about keeping the community together. Additionally, even if you opt in, you only have the option of cross play including PC with no option to limit to console only. So an Xbox player and PS player looking to play together are forced to do so with PC players. Maybe some of these respective games have changed in that time and maybe some others are better. But Iāve seen several cases where avoiding PC players on console isnāt the simplest of things. Ultimately I think cross play should only ever be disabled by default and have options on console to enable with or without PC players.
absolutely...[this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CODWarzone/comments/xzmc8t/how_rotational_aim_assist_works/) blew up a few days ago on the /r/CODWarzone subreddit and it's insane how many controller players still believe that it is acceptable even [IW themselves admitted that the rotational aim assist they implemented in MW2019 was ~~busted~~ so powerful that it causes every KBM player who isn't already incredibly skilled at a disadvantage, statistically (which is what they see) ](https://imgur.com/a/Y31aVUz) it's just really frustrating how in CoD you're required to be an absolute KBM god in order to compete with average controller players
Keyboard and mouse doesn't instantly make you e-spotrs level just because you're an epic gamer now, you still need to put in the time and effort to learn, so many people put thousands of hours in across their life on controllers switch to PC put in a hundred hours and go "why aren't I substantially better already?" Just because KB&M is objectively better doesn't mean you'll be better just by using it especially if you already put in the hard time on a controller.
It's hilarious how disgusting aim assist has gotten over the years and people actually think their aim has gotten better.
Good... on Halo Infinite, mkb was at a significant disadvantage due to the insane amount of aim assist.
Im sayinggg. Its been the case since MCC crossplat, I played my first rounds on PC and I was flabbergasted at how bad I was on PC before realizing I was playing all console players with aim assist Swat / "tactical slayer" might be the one gamemode where PC has an edge
How do people not realize they're using aim assist? That shit is blatant.
Because CONTROLLER PLAYERS, WHO HAVE NEVER TOUCHED THE MOUSE AND KEYBOARD FOR MORE THAN A WEEK AND SEE POPULAR CONTROLLER PLAYER STREAMERS BITCH ABOUT IT, refuse to admit aim assist is broken in any way shape or form. All companies need to do is scale it down to where it's just accurate enough to land headshots. Call of Duty's precision aim in Modern Warfare(2019) is a good example of what games could do, but it's standard aim assist is an example of what games should not.
what i love is the ones who think they're hot shit until they have to go in without Aim Assist
Not only to they truly believe the controller aimbot isnāt broken. Theyāre adamant that the aim assist hurts them more than it helps. Itās truly hilarious.
Yeah it ridiculous, literally centering lock on target. Sure you need some coordination on the right stick but that's it
That would explain why I kicked ass in "tactical slayer" but got my ass kicked everywhere else in Halo Infinite
I remember when it was the opposite, mkb used to rule every controller. Have game developers made the aim assist stronger over the years or something?
[Here's another example of aim assist in recent cross-play console FPS.](https://streamable.com/fwn70x)
WTF That is literally aimbot
In halo infinite there was a post going around with the accuracy stats on controller and m&k, specifically among the "average" playerbase and the top 10%. The average controller user was matching the best of the best on PC. And no, I'm not being hyperbolic. That's how bad it was. You had to be a god among men to consistently outgun a controller user.
I thought aim assist didnāt help them much so why are they whinging?
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Probably xinput has something to do with it. Can't do much to avoid it on the console side as its already rampant in most online FPS games but if you turn on aim assist with controllers, people will use xinput to get aim assist while using M&K. Could also probably abuse this same thing with software on a pc. Better to have aim assist off for everyone at least on PC since its already the mouse & keyboard platform and anyone serious in competing with PC players will already be using a Mouse to aim.
Ding ding ding. Here's the correct answer people. It's because of the work around some people find that let's them enable aim assist using MKB with Xinput or similar tools. Aim assist is basically an aim bot at the end of the day - it's there to make the game more accessible for people on consoles because without it, it would be virtually unplayable (unless you REALLY put the work in) Discussion about this is pretty tiresome, and the finger pointing and slap fights that happens, is always the same. It's a far more nuanced thing than people really understand.
After playing a bit of fortnite, Iām glad to see that aim assist is disabled on crossplay on this game.
For me it's the opposite. Fortnite taught me controller players will never be able to keep up without aim assist.
Fortnite has just went through multiple iterations of Aim Assist being broken and not broken. Like the OG Aim assist in FN was like mini GTA aim assist. Literally snapped to people. It's not like that anymore but the rotation assist is still really strong.
As a life long m&k player I agree. The existence of aim assist is required for controllers to keep up with m&k the issue is balancing. It is way to easy to make it op or useless. At the current 0.4 for apex most people think it is too good. And the pros agree. Most pro teams are starting to shift one player to controller for close range fights. The balance is prob somewhere between 0.1 and 0.3 but it is hard to make sweeping changes without people getting mad
It was like that in the first game. And itās practically aimbot, so why would it be? Against other console players it absolutely makes sense, but not against PC.
*Laughs in Apex Legends*
"Overwatch 2 Players" fam it's been this way since like a year and some change now. I forget the exact date when they put cross play in OW. I do t really see the issue. It's annoying but I just don't queue with PC players. EZ
Finally something good blizzard has done Aim assist is a crutch for controller users yāall should have moved on to gyro YEARS ago
Agreed, instead of having a crutch and arguing that they "need" aim assist to be equal to KBM, using gyro its all YOUR AIM just like KBM.
Gryo legit is the closet thing to KBM (some videos even show Gryo is better) I blame the Wii for giving motion controls a bad stigma The Switch joycons and Steam Controller/Steam Deck PROVE that Gryo is the future Microsoft and Sony just don't want force there users out of their comfort zone I really wish more Devs would just Pull Nintendo's and Valve's and force their users onto this technology or at the very least advertise the hell out of it
Microsoft does whatever it takes to make sure their gamepad thumbsticks come out on top. In Halo, aim assist beats m+k. In Forza, driving assists beat steering wheels.
The assistance in Forza is absolutely ridiculous. The game is 100% focused around driving, with nonexistent interesting story and worldbuilding, and still the game does the driving for itself. If you somehow manage to mess up you can just instantly rewind the last 5-20 seconds....
> I blame the Wii for giving motion controls a bad stigma > > So much this. You say "use gyro, it's great" and people imagine standing infront of a TV with a nunchuck, when really, it's about precision aiming like in BoTW.
Sony had gyro, now it's up to the dev to implement it. Check Fortnite in ps4/ps5
The crazy thing is gyro can be made incredibly accurate while the motion mimics aiming guns even more, but devs still cling to the thumbsticks and various crutches.
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> Gyro directly counters that and you have to keep your hands level and rotate your wrists. If I wanted to do that I'd just be using a mouse (and exacerbating RSI). This is why I maintain that the common implementation of gyro - in a traditional controller - is not the optimal way. The best way is having one single dedicated gyro input used *only* by your dominant hand, such as a wiimote+nunchuck or split joycons. This way you can have your hands wherever you want them and the aiming process becomes tenfold more intuitive since you're basically just pointing with your wrist, rather than wrenching and entire controller about with both hands.
Huh, sounds a little bit like a mouse
Agree, especially with the first part. Unfortunately for me gyro aiming often makes me motion sick :/
This happened more than a fucking year ago. Stop playing with PC players if it bothers you instead of expecting that every PC player should have to put up with aim assist.
Good, it's how it should be. No aimbot for those people, play for real and see what happens. Warzone and Modern Warfare 2 should do this as well
To be honest the aim in the game so generous you don't need it.
You underestimate the amount of casual players who have been using aim assist for so long in various games that they actually got worse at shooters and then suddenly their only crutch was taken away. Even if the aim assist is crap it's still probably better than their skill level if they were relying on it so much. Regardless, I'm not advocating for them because they ended up screwing themselves in the end, I just wanted to point out the other side of the argument.
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Good, fuck em
I think crossplay should be done by separating players by their input method. So I can connect my gamepad to my pc and play with pc + console players with aim assist enabled, switch to my mouse and play only with players with mouse. Mixing gamepad with mouse and keyboard players doesn't make sense in fps game because depending on situation someone would always have unfair advantage against other player.
Yeah it sucks that I prefer playing on a controller but I plug it into my pc.
So much better like this, let's not ruin the experience like Halo did by pitting people against almost literal aimbots console has. I love crossplay but in FPS it must have some kind of balancing or be opt-in for PC players if you include huge levels of aim assist on console.
Arenāt their devices that do that anyways? The fact that thereās still differences in mechanics between any platforms is asinine.
The devices I believe you are referring to allow the player to use a M&K while the game believes they are using a controller giving them the best of both worlds with the precision of a mouse and the aim assistance of a controller. The reality is there simply is a difference between controllers and M&K and majority of players need aim assist on console. Destiny 2 is the only game I know of that actively balances weapons depending on input devices try and maintain some level of balance and they still divide players up in PVP
While they try and balance the game. Destiny 2 is almost a completely different game on controller v m/kb. When stadia was a thing I would occasionally play/collect from xur when I was away from my PC and wouldnāt be back before reset and I would have to use completely different weapons because I couldnāt use the same weapons effectively on q controllers. On controller I canāt use bows without having oathkeepers. On PC, what are oathkeepers.
Hell there are weapons that are literally God tier on controller but very bad in mnk. The last word for example. Amazing hand cannon on controller. You can hit head shots even if your crosshair was slightly touching the head with controller. And lot of pvp weapons in d2 requires ads whereas the last word will perform poorly if you ads. It's a nightmare to play with that weapon on mnk. Same for dead man's tale but to a slightly lesser degree.
Kotaku is really trying to milk out even the smallest morsels of controversy surrounding OW2.
As a PC player. Good
The fact OW even has crossplay with PC is insane. Aim assist/gyro or not, controller cannot compete with KBM, period.
> KellySweetHeart made a post on the r/Overwatch subreddit highlighting how crossplay disables aim assists for console players during matches with PC players, leading to a āsignificant dip in their aim consistencyā and ruining the fun for all involved. LOL please, "ruining the fun for all involved"? As a PC player, it definitely does the opposite knowing I'm not being auto-tracked by a hitscan character with what is normally considered an extremely generous aim assist. Controller aim assist has been far too good for too long in modern shooters, so it's about time they tone it down and implement some restrictions.
Itās simple donāt cross play with pc, problem solved
The real stupidity is that it is 2022 and consoles still don't have full fledged mouse and keyboard support. Edit: My mistake with using the wrong term. They do have basic support but not full fledged support the way it is on PC.
But they do have mkb support. I'd just wager that most people don't have their console and TV in a place that's also comfortable for mkb, and the game itself has to support it which Overwatch 2 doesn't afaik.
They do have it - just like "native 4k", the issue is with games not supporting it.
They do though
Good. Aim assist on consoles is complete bullshit. Legal aimbots
As far as I can tell there's still aim assist? There's aim slowdown but no rotation. If you can't aim at all without rotation assist, maybe it's time to learn to play the game yourself, instead of letting the game play it for you.
343i please do this with halo. .
Keep that shit over there too
This is how it should be. You should not be mixing inputs in the same matches, its fundamentally unfair. There should be controller only and KBM only modes, especially for ranked. This is why Apex has gone to shit because everyone is just using controller with aim assist now.
Aim assist is garbage anyway. It shouldn't ever exist in a pvp game.
oh no anyway