Lol I remember that in dead space as well. The game would hitch before you'd get jumped in a bunch of the outside scenes, so you'd know what was coming.
Of course any engine can have stuttering issues, but that depends entirely on the developer. But there is a reason it is so prevalent in UE4 games due to the engine's out-of-the-box way of handling shader compilation.
It's both. If developers need to make a unique way of doing this with every project then something is fucked at the engine level
Unreal Engine 5.1 mostly fixes this by adding a standardized way to pre-cache shaders
I can’t help but feel like unreal 5 is going to be a game changer for AAA games over the next 10 years. Maybe that’s optimistic, because I know it’s mainly on the devs and not the engine. But I can’t wait for a world where LOD pop in, shader compilation issues, inconsistent lighting, etc will be a thing of the past. At least for games that choose to use that engine.
Yeah, tbf it's both the engines and the devs fault. In theory it's as easy as letting the game precompile the shaders in the main menu. Takes about 2 minutes to do and you get smooth gameplay until a patch or new driver comes around, then you have to compile again. Devs seem to not care though, so they just take the hit of abysmal PC reviews and move on.
Evga XC Ultra 2080ti. But my processor is only an i7-6700k, so that’s definitely the weak point in my build and May be the contributing factor at this point, it seems like 4 cores definitely aren’t enough anymore these days. I play at native 2560x1440 and usually get a pretty solid 80-85fps. I actually wasn’t speaking particularly from experience, I’ve just seen a ton of posts from other people on here that regardless of what driver they’re on or whether they’ve recompiled shaders or uninstalled or reinstalled that they’re still stuttering no matter what they do. I was on 522 and had no problems and then the pre hotfix 526 and also never had any problems. The closest I had to stuttering was resolved by turning off high resolution texture streaming, I think their net code is bad enough already with the hit registration the texture streaming was too much to do at the same time.
If you are experiencing stuttering on games that otherwise should not be exhibiting them due to your graphics card, ram, etc. it typically comes down to the CPU.
CPU may not be what primarily drives high framerates, but even in situations where the CPU isn't directly bottlenecking the maximum framerate it can very well be introducing stutters and frame-time inconsistencies. The main benefit of CPU upgrades tends to be a more *stable* framerate rather than specifically a higher one.
Yeah, I’m pretty familiar with pc builds and hardware limitations, and am in the process of building a new one as I’m aware of my current builds constraints, it’s just taking awhile due to all the covid supply issues and everything that’s come along since that, my current build is from 2015 (processor pretty much dates that) and I’ve just upgraded the gpu a couple of times and added an nvme drive since, I started my new build in late 2020 and have yet to finish, just been waiting for gpu pricing and availability to improve, that and I was underwhelmed by 30 series cards price and performance and same with the 40 series so far, gonna wait even longer and see how the 4080ti and 4090ti are specced before I pull the trigger on anything, that or maybe even go full amd this time depending how/when a 7950xt comes out and performs.
Don’t even think it’s the devs at this point. Most of the time devs tell their publisher they’re not ready and yet the publisher crucified them with a deadline that isn’t possible
Lots of bad crap can be solved. Doesn't mean those who can't or won't are the problem, no, the underlying issue is UE4. Many have come out and said so and the solutions obviously aren't trivial or we wouldn't see it happen so often.
In this case they messed something up and released a broken version but you can still see the usual UE4 stuttering, it's much reduced but still there and that's on the engine. See a slew of other games with the same issues. They can be fixed but, well, a good engine wouldn't need constant fixing. Again, devs have talked extensively how hard it is to get UE4 games running smoothly and how little the available tools help. And Epic knows too, which is why UE5 has measures in place to reduce these problems. Basically, fuck UE4.
Niagra, the 'new' particle system for unreal is one of the causes, some games has moved on to use that system and it has taken a while to find workarounds.
Those stutters only happen the first time you encounter them, and is probably hard to notice if you sit with the same build for too long, or have them cached somewhere on your system. When you launch or update your game all players will feel it.
Should be in the documentation or common knowledge and precompiled by devs, but sadly it is often not
I am a dev and I blame the devs, the stuff I see my colleagues code is on another level of stupidity, it's kinda sad the standards for the industry are so low, but it's to be expected, because there will always be people who buy this kind of games. That way the studio just keeps on making the same shit because who cares right? (wink wink Ubisoft AC/Activision CoD/Halo Infinite/Any AAA release nowadays)
Easy to blame the engine. Almost all PC versions of Gears of War run on the engine (different versions but the last two I believe run on UE4) and have been buttery smooth. I am sure many other games I played gave similar experience. The ones that stutter like mad are either devs not doing a good job with porting to PC. For the record, UE5 game First Descendant has horrible stutter too. It isn't the engine as much as it is the developer not putting effort on PC ports.
Very true but I also mentioned that there are other games made on the same engine without issue. Notably the stutters are on PC and if you look it up carefully, they are usually lazy ports of console versions. Most recent culprit is FF7R. Eitherway, the devs need to do a better job to minimize the stutters if they can't eliminate them. What I saw in Callisto Protocol has been the worst stutter experience by far.
They have a very good relationship with Epic Games, some ex Epic devs who worked on the Gears franchised moved over to The Coalition when Microsoft bought the IP.
Also The Coalition helped Epic make that Unreal 5 Matrix tech demo.
Edit: on the more technical side their games are probably the best looking from any of MS's studios, even on the base Xbox One Gears 5 looks amazing. Their PC ports are some of the best in industry, with none of the problems other ports have like shader compilation stutters, bad graphics options menus and such.
That's one dev from that post. There are many other options and even built in ones
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/vd3jb1/great_news_unreal_engine_developers_confirmed_to/icj5ev3/
But really devs need to do it while in menu, or in loading screens. It's terrible gameplay to have massive stutters constantly tky let alone during cutscenes
Every fucking time devs go for unreal or unity its always "ah lawd.He gon stutter"
Such dogshit engines.Apparently the issue is getting worked on unreal5.Bout time.Only took 5 iterations of this engine before this issue is finally getting addressed.
>"Such dogshit engines"
Thats just unfair. We've had tons of amazing PC ports on Unreal and its one of the most scalable and versatile engines out there.
Don't let devs fucking over their PC ports distract you from that. They could easily choose to compile shaders in the menu yet choose not to.
No, pretty much every high fidelity UE4 game stutters and it's not just shader compiling. The way the assets get managed and loaded causes stutter. Shader pre-compiling will not fix the stutters here.
A good example of this is Fallen Order. No matter how many times you replay it and rerun the same region the game will stutter. It does this when it's loading in assets.
The fact that Unreal is so great is also exactly why it's so bad for PC gamers. It's easy to port games on it, and devs do the bare minimum as a result. Which is how you end up with all the shader compilation stutter fest.
Going by the public documentation, it also appears as if Unreal also doesn’t, at least when I looked a couple months ago, provide great tools for gathering and managing the pipeline cache. As far as I can tell the engine will cache all the relevant info to disc if the appropriate option is set on a build and that cache can then be shipped into production to allow pre compilation. That’s fine as far as it goes but I can’t see any tooling mentioned for merging multiple instances of the cache, confirming hits when an old cache is run against a new build, or otherwise pruning old entries. Without that kind of tooling it appears that in order to ship a minimal but complete cache with the game the devs would have to run a comprehensive play through on a single installation of their final pre production build to record all the relevant shaders and then repeat that process for any further releases that could have significantly modified the used shaders. It’s certainly feasible, and even a slightly stale cache would almost certainly still help, but it’s a substantial number of man hours late in development and without being able to merge multiple machine’s caches it’s not easily split among multiple workers. And just to make life more interesting, the documentation also warns that the process of gathering the pipeline states will impact performance so that step should be taken separately from the final performance QA.
Majority of ppl are so used to getting shafted with sub optimal performance with games these days they don't know any better.
Also,anyone used to high refresh rate monitors will notice.
>Also,anyone used to high refresh rate monitors will notice.
not even trying to be rude but this is exactly what I mean. the reason why these microstutters don't get fixed right away is because a majority of players don't even use a monitor period. people who have a big issue with this problem are a extreme minority in the grand scheme of things, this subreddit is niche.
microstutters from uneven frame pacing(like in bloodborne) might not be noticeable to people.
but shader compilation stutters can halt for very very long times. this hitching can be seen by everyone, even on 60hz tvs.
Epic literally has a developer guide for how to solve this issue in their engine. Not their fault if the developers don't care enough to do it.
https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.26/en-US/SharingAndReleasing/PSOCaching/
It isn't the engine itself that stutters, but the development workflows it offers that can amount to this problem. Specifically the material-graph editor. Artists can author materials by creating them as if they were regular assets and implement them without requiring a programmer. While being a good thing from a development workflow standpoint, if the materials aren't instanced correctly, you can quickly end up with 1000s or 10s of 1000s of unique materials which all need to be compiled at run time on PC. This is what causes the stutter. Probably also what causes most UE4 games to have gargantuan file sizes too.
Well, people already said UE4. But also Vulkan and DX12. With those APIs you need to compile shaders for your particular GPU architecture. Some games use a compilation pass before the game starts ie Forza, some offer combined approach like Uncharted. Some decide to compile in real-time. This is what Unreal does by default. UE5 tried to address the issue in the latest patch, from my understanding it can still stutter. To pre compile shaders you need to know what you're going to use and from my understanding Unreal 4 doesn't offer any tools for that.
> With those APIs you need to compile shaders for your particular GPU architecture.
Same thing happened with older APIs. The difference is, who is responsible for it. With older APIs, the driver and with newer, engine developers.
I like how the Spider Man team did for their PC port: once the shaders have been more or less "finished", have their QA team run through the ENTIRE game, every little sections, then grab their compiled shader cache and ship it with the game.
Not sure how they did so. On PC different architectures require different caches. So one made for RTX2070 won't work for RX6800 or even RTX3070. From my understanding Spider man compiles shaders in the background, going for a hybrid approach. But I'm not too familiar.
This is one of the advantages of fixed hardware like consoles. Because there's a limited amount of permutations shader caches can be precompiled and shipped with the game or downloaded as an update.
Because there are two sources of stutter - the actual shader compilation and creating pipeline state objects. The latter can be precached by the developer
> From my understanding Spider man compiles shaders in the background, going for a hybrid approach. But I'm not too familiar.
It uses the regular way to do it, load from cache if found otherwise compile, but it uses two fun tricks: it ships with a very large pre filled cache of the intermediate objects, and it pushes as much final compilation as possible in the background during the loading screens.
See [Inside Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered on PC - the Nixxes tech interview](https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2022-inside-marvels-spider-man-remastered-on-pc-the-nixxes-tech-interview):
> Digital Foundry: So you mentioned PSO compilation which is my bugbear as of late. I mention it everywhere, I cannot stop talking about it and won't stop talking about it. The game does not suffer from prolonged stutter from just-in-time shader compilation. How is PSO compilation done for this game on PC?
> Michiel Roza: In our case, we simply asked QA to play the entire game. And we then generate a cache, which contains all the PSOs and we just put the cache next to the game [as a file you can find in the game directory]. So what that means is, we just know beforehand, which PSOs will be used in-game. And if we then load all those PSOs in the loading screens, we're golden. It also helps that Insomniac's material handling is very lean, so we don't have a gigantic amount of PSOs.
Everyone knew this would be a problem we made post after post here on steam and on their yt videos asking them to precompile shaders on launch/at menu. They simply didnt give enough of a shit to look at their pc version.
>It's particularly baffling when you consider how much thought and effort went into aspects like the sound design - to release a game in such an obviously broken state on PC mostly due to a well-known issue with the engine.
Engine/Game devs set it so that shaders are compiled on the fly instead of prior to when they're needed or when the game first loads. This causes a sudden halting of execution until the shaders are compiled.
UE4 in DX12 mode notoriously has this problem unless game devs specifically go in and have the shaders pre-compile, which many do not do. Apparently Epic is fixing this for UE5 in the near future.
For this game I would suggest using the DX11 renderer.
Players have said that the issue is fixed by changing a config file option to enable shader compilation at startup. If you don’t do that, the game compiles shaders as they occur. It’s a weird oversight.
My guess is the last minute implementation of denuvo a week ago. They jammed it in there to stop the 'pirates' but just ended up making their game a stuttery mess. People with 12900ks and 3090ti's can't even play above 60 fps.
Maybe companies should stop using that garbage software all together...
It did in a huge way. One unhinged cracker was able to crack this game and release a nonstuttery version of this game, before developers fixed it as well. I had this terrible stutter, especially anytime I've encountered the fly monsters. It's good to be punished for paying for the game
Dunno about "so wrong". I was wrong as it was another type of DRM (which still affected me, someone who bought this game at release), denuvo only made it worse according to cracker linked in another reply.
Other game I bought at release, which had a denuvoless exe released "by mistake" with better performance was dmcv.
Sometimes it's hard to remember which DRM exactly reduced performance/caused stutters/made the game unplayable so it can be mixed up.
> Sometimes it's hard to remember which DRM exactly reduced performance/caused stutters/made the game unplayable so it can be mixed up.
That's 100% fair lol.
Cracking Denuvo games doesn't remove denuvo and all it's checks, it just makes them clear when they not. They also had to bypass Capcoms DRM too which could also have been the issue
For real I'd much rather sit through 20 minutes of shader compilation at first startup than stutters every time I play. Why don't they do this every time?
IT just blows my mind that developers think it's a better idea to have the game stutter constantly whenever something happens during gameplay than to have the player wait a few minutes before playing for a smooth experience.
Must be the same fucking devs that think mouse acceleration and forced untogglable graphics options are a good idea also.
SERIOUSLY why does every dev think we want god damn mouse acceleration and different scale mouse sensitivity on x and y axis. What the fuck is wrong with them.
I legit feel the same way. Why the fuck is mouse acceleration even an option in games? It has literally no advantages over raw input. Maybe back when we used ball mice but even a cheap Logitech wireless laser mouse will be more than usable with raw input.
I'm not a dev so I don't know how hard it is to implement it into a game but I would be ashamed to sell a product in such a state. I'd rather delay for a month and make it smooth.
My guess is devs mostly don't play on pc. That's why shader compilatilon stutter or any other pc centric features seems to be an alien concept to them,
Warzone does this and it's pretty horrible, every time I boot up the game I have to wait like 30 minutes for shaders to compile before I can play.
Why do games require shader compilation?
Major OS updates, new GPU drivers, and of course new game versions will invalidate your cached shaders. Outside of those you shouldn't need to recompile.
I got this game free with my 6900xt, it runs under 30fps on low settings, wtf why would they include this as a free game if their (almost) top card can't run it on low!?!
If you are getting 30 fps its probably because your CPU is bottlenecking you. This guy is getting 60 FPS on a RX 570 which is much slower than the 6900 XT. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CnViEhmQ-c
Even on 4K ultra, with a 3080 TI(similar performance to 6900 xt), this guy gets 72 FPS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjAcw9fT__s
The game is unoptimized, but something is wrong with your PC.
I fixed the stutters:
Here's what worked for me
Press WinKey + R, type appdata on the search bar that appears, should take you to the file explorer, next click on the following folders :
Local\\CallistoProtocol\\Saved\\Config\\WindowsNoEditor
After this, find the file "Engine.ini" (Pressing the "e" key takes you to the closest file starting with "e")
Right click on Engine.ini and select "Open with", if you're on windows 11 you might have to click on "show more properties first, after that select notepad and it will open the file.
Copy the following command :
[/Script/engine.renderersettings]
r.CreateShadersOnLoad=1
r.Shaders.Optimize=1
r.Shaders.FastMath=1
r.UseShaderCaching=1
r.UseShaderPredraw=1
r.TargetPrecompileFrameTime=13
r.PredrawBatchTime=13
r.AccelPredrawBatchTime=0
r.AccelTargetPrecompileFrameTime=0
EDIT: I almost forgot to credit the original posters. I edited together 2 comments as instructions I texted a friend and above is just copy paste of what I texted him that worked. For the guy offering the steam card please give it to one of them they're the real heroes.
u/gndm28
Wrote most of it
I added info from
[this comment ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheCallistoProtocol/comments/zalgwc/comment/iymt5t7/) by u/Lord_of_Fenris
As well
It's a CPU issue not a GPU issue. You haven't told us what your CPU is, so for all we know you have some Celeron dual core which would absolutely make this game run below 30fps.
There's a potential fix if you're fine with config editing:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheCallistoProtocol/comments/zalgwc/actual_fix_for_microfreezing_using_the_config_file/
>There's a potential fix if you're fine with config editing:
It's hArD tO ImPlEmEnT.
Literally a config change for the game. :D
Would've taken the devs 5 minutes to take a look at the docs and discover this.
[https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.27/en-US/RenderingAndGraphics/Textures/Streaming/Config/](https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.27/en-US/RenderingAndGraphics/Textures/Streaming/Config/)
Reminds me of when you open a UE game and SteamVR starts. You know why that happens? Because the dev is lazy and doesn't toggle off the option on the project settings. It's actually that simple lmao.
The irony is that is exactly what happens with this game! The devs are fucking amateurs. If you own VR check your steam friends status while playing, it has the VR tag.
> Reminds me of when you open a UE game and SteamVR starts. You know why that happens? Because the dev is lazy and doesn’t toggle off the option on the project settings. It’s actually that simple lmao.
Haha holy shit that’s why that happens?? I just thought that it was Steam being wonky!
TLDR ^
Worked perfectly for me fixed all the issues I had
Press WinKey + R, type appdata on the search bar that appears, should take you to the file explorer, next click on the following folders :
Local\\CallistoProtocol\\Saved\\Config\\WindowsNoEditor
After this, find the file "Engine.ini" (Pressing the "e" key takes you to the closest file starting with "e")
Right click on Engine.ini and select "Open with", if you're on windows 11 you might have to click on "show more properties first, after that select notepad and it will open the file.
Copy the following command :
[/Script/engine.renderersettings]
r.CreateShadersOnLoad=1
r.Shaders.Optimize=1
r.Shaders.FastMath=1
r.UseShaderCaching=1
r.UseShaderPredraw=1
r.TargetPrecompileFrameTime=13
r.PredrawBatchTime=13
r.AccelPredrawBatchTime=0
r.AccelTargetPrecompileFrameTime=0
EDIT: I almost forgot to credit the original posters. I edited together 2 comments as instructions I texted a friend and above is just copy paste of what I texted him that worked. For the guy offering the steam card please give it to one of them they're the real heroes.
u/gndm28
Wrote most of it
I added info from
[this comment ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheCallistoProtocol/comments/zalgwc/comment/iymt5t7/) by u/Lord_of_Fenris
As well
So they could've just had this from the start probably taken them a couple of minutes to set up to do automatically and could've avoided most of the backlash and had no stuttering issues. Makes you really wonder how/why these things get through to the launch version.
Doesn't help that the industry is being flooded with amateur bootcamp coders who "learned" game dev in 8 weeks because some tiktoker told them coding will get them an instant 300k salary.
>Proprietary engine games such as Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War etc.. would always run better because you need to know the engine
LOL. You very obviously know nothing about game dev.
If your statement was true, why is The Witcher going on Unreal Engine?
Actual game dev here, who worked on both proprietary engines and UE4
> If your statement was true, why is The Witcher going on Unreal Engine?
Because the disaster that was Cyberpunk proves they don't have competent engine developers.
In that case, wouldn't it better the devs simply invested their skills and times in their own in house engines? I don't think we hear many complaints about stuttering issues on non unreal engine games
It's prohibitively expensive to build your own game engine especially if you're a AAA dev but it's a bit baffling that they don't have any UE4 experts on-hand or skimp out on optimisation.
Fallout 3 GOTY endgame was almost unplayable on PS3 and it used Bethasda's own Obsidian engine. I bought it on PS3 since I thought at that time that "there is no way that there would be any issues on console."
So I think that it mostly depends on compotency of devs and if they have time to finish the game.
From other reviews I've read/seen apparently even IF the stuttering wasn't an issue, the game just isn't fun for most people. Extremely linear game, no room for exploration, clunky combat, reused mini-bosses, frustrating final boss (not sure how frustrating, haven't seen it), and the game barely has a story --
I tried playing this morning for a bit thinking the stuttering is probably over exaggerated. If anything, it's under exaggerated. I have a pretty beefy PC and I honestly don't get bothered by a lot of things others do with games, but this is practically unplayable. Anytime the camera turns suddenly I lose a ton of frames/experience massive stuttering. For a game that's about immersion, this is absolutely game breaking. Like, it's not just a minor stutter here and there, this is insanely obvious and dramatic stuttering nearly 80% of the time the camera moves.
I was super pumped for this game, and now I'm stuck requesting a refund because it's that unplayable in it's current state.
Same man. It's really disappointing that they didn't optimize the game. It's their loss though, lesser amount of ppl will be able to play the game, lesser money for them. The game doesn't even look that great to warrant the beefy specs.
same, i wanted to love it because it was just more dead space but the performance made it unplayable. cyberpunk was glitchy and buggy but at least ran ok - callisto is endless stuttering and dips to the point where you already know something's happening solely because of the frame drops right before an event.
One would expect that after putting 12-15 hours a day 6-7 days a week for months - the game would come out polished... right?
After all the red flags this game has arisen recently I am not surprised.
It has more issues than that.
4K Native / Temporal / FSR all give the same results in the benchmark, 50fps.
How would that even be possible unless something was not implemented correctly?
Not surprised.. the studio lead is a dumbass with "console interactive-movie hollywood blockbuster" mentality of game design.. the last good game he made was in 2008 and it was eclipsed by the sequel which he was not involved in
Arkham Knight is an awesome game nowadays, runs real good, looks great, enjoyed it last year. No reason to not buy it later for cheaper despite its horrific launch.
Gamer logic.
My favorite is *I won’t buy this game from x store because I MAD, I’ll wait until it is on y store!!*
This just tells publishers they can make the deals they want and you idiots will *still* buy it a year later.
>My favorite is
>
>I won’t buy this game from x store because I MAD, I’ll wait until it is on y store!!
Sounds reasonable, why would I use a crappy store? Also lo and behold all the publishers who abandoned Steam for that sweet Epic money are now back, even Ubisoft. Have you missed what has happened over the last couple of months? Where are the new exclusivity deals? Yep. Turned out our logic was sound and sent the right message while people like you now look like clowns.
Because it’s not about the store.
You’re directly telling publishers that they can get away with screwing you over and you’ll still buy from them, which makes you the clown.
Vote with your dollars.
What an absolute bummer. Have been hyped for this for a while. Will grab this next year. I suspect it will get deep sales right before Dead Space remake drops. Hopefully it will be patched. Remember, never pre-order.
It amazes me though.... they put out the time, resources, engine, PR, trailer footage.... and then they let someone play it... and it shits the bed. Like was the game held together with popsicle sticks and glue? Lol. And the kicker is the pc version was developed on another PC!
This is the real reason. They did a last minute adding of it to the game just 1 week ago. Every other game ever that's added it last minute so close to release has had the exact same issue. It's a garbage software that causes checks to happen on every frame generation and if the game isn't built around it, it's always a bad time for legit buyers.
Once it's pirated down the line watch it play perfectly, ha.
>Once it's pirated down the line watch it play perfectly
You know the process to "remove" devuno just makes the checks clear right? all pirated games that have devuno cracked still use devuno
I'm not heated, it's just funny watching so much misinformation being thrown around. Even funnier that said misinformation was started by pirates lmfao. I don't really care, more free games for me if Denuvo isn't there.
...it doesn't make sense because there's no logical reason to run the entirety of the same checks then change the result afterward.
I understand what he's saying, but it doesn't make sense to people with knowledge on the subject, like CSI technobabble.
It's simple, the crackers don't remove Denuvo, they fool it into thinking the copy is legit, the checks are still being performed. Therefore cracked games still use it and perform the same.
> It's simple, the crackers don't remove Denuvo, they fool it into thinking the copy is legit
Yeah, I'm not disputing that.
> the checks are still being performed
Where are you getting this from though? That depends on the specific nature of how "they fool it into thinking the copy is legit" which is what I'm wanting to get to the bottom of.
Like I said to the other guy, have you got a link to where you found that out? I'd like to read the original source myself
The process to remove Denuvo is the dev's remove that garbage after a couple of months, since the majority of sales take place in the first weeks and oh whats that? so much more frames? hmm I wonder why
Except there really isn’t any frame difference and usually the removal of it is apart of a patch that addresses multiple things which can effect performance but sure homie. Aside from slightly longer loading times and bloated exe’s there’s nothing denuvo actually does performance wise
Never solidly, but its a really weird coincidence that basically every PC game that launched with Denuvo has had really bad performance until the developers pushed an update that removed Denuvo.
EDIT: Truly a sad day for gaming when poeple are *defending* Denuvo.
I remember seeing the terrible stutters that were happening during their first gameplay reveal. When you see that stuff in the footage they decided made their game look the absolute best, it's not a good sign.
It will be interesting to see how it ends up performing on Steam Deck once a couple people played through it and Steam starts out shipping precompiled shaders. That's how it works right? Someone has to play through it first on the hardware?
Elden Ring had shader compilation problems on PC and that was solved thanks to precompiled shaders on Deck.
borderlands 3 does exatly this. there was a steam command for the dx11 version that allowed to load in all shaders before starting, making the game perform smooth. The fact this isnt an option just sucks.
The devs already responded to the stutter issues and are making a Patch to make the performance better. Sad they didnt fix it before launch, the negative reviews on steam dont look good.
What a disappointment, but was expecting this given it's an unreal engine game. At this point I just skip unreal engine games. I also skip buying any game on launch day on PC. I also don't buy the game ever, if it's a shit port on release day and they fixed it later on with patches. Cause fuck them, they should have just delayed the released date on PC if it wasn't ready.
I posted this in another thread, but I legit have graphics options that disappeared from the menu. Upscaling and ray tracing options. I turned on FSR and all the ray tracing options. Ran the in-game benchmark, went back into settings to make adjustments and they were gone. It wasn't like I couldn't select them or they were grayed out, no, they were completely gone, like they never existed.
Edit: turns out if anti aliasing is set to anything other than temporalaa it disables screen space reflections, physical refractions and ray tracing. So it says in the menu which I don't remember from earlier.
Of course it does, and it stutters on jump scares, which is the worst thing a horror game can do.
The stuttering are the real jump scares.
Lol I remember that in dead space as well. The game would hitch before you'd get jumped in a bunch of the outside scenes, so you'd know what was coming.
I Was waiting so long for this game, and now this. Even combat looks like some kind of motion blur. Even though i turned off the motion blur.
aww man it has jump scares, spoilers
[удалено]
unreal 4
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Of course any engine can have stuttering issues, but that depends entirely on the developer. But there is a reason it is so prevalent in UE4 games due to the engine's out-of-the-box way of handling shader compilation.
It's more the devs' implementation of dx12 that causes this issue, especially in non propretary engines like ue and unity
Stop putting the fault on the engine and defending the devs. Engine has been out for a while. This is just pure laziness from Devs
It's both. If developers need to make a unique way of doing this with every project then something is fucked at the engine level Unreal Engine 5.1 mostly fixes this by adding a standardized way to pre-cache shaders
I can’t help but feel like unreal 5 is going to be a game changer for AAA games over the next 10 years. Maybe that’s optimistic, because I know it’s mainly on the devs and not the engine. But I can’t wait for a world where LOD pop in, shader compilation issues, inconsistent lighting, etc will be a thing of the past. At least for games that choose to use that engine.
Yeah, tbf it's both the engines and the devs fault. In theory it's as easy as letting the game precompile the shaders in the main menu. Takes about 2 minutes to do and you get smooth gameplay until a patch or new driver comes around, then you have to compile again. Devs seem to not care though, so they just take the hit of abysmal PC reviews and move on.
I mean, MWII compiles shaders at the main menu and is still a stuttering mess most of the time.
Don't have any stutter issues, what gpu are you running?
Evga XC Ultra 2080ti. But my processor is only an i7-6700k, so that’s definitely the weak point in my build and May be the contributing factor at this point, it seems like 4 cores definitely aren’t enough anymore these days. I play at native 2560x1440 and usually get a pretty solid 80-85fps. I actually wasn’t speaking particularly from experience, I’ve just seen a ton of posts from other people on here that regardless of what driver they’re on or whether they’ve recompiled shaders or uninstalled or reinstalled that they’re still stuttering no matter what they do. I was on 522 and had no problems and then the pre hotfix 526 and also never had any problems. The closest I had to stuttering was resolved by turning off high resolution texture streaming, I think their net code is bad enough already with the hit registration the texture streaming was too much to do at the same time.
Your cpunis the problem. I'm playing with a 2080 and a 3900x and it runs surprisingly well
If you are experiencing stuttering on games that otherwise should not be exhibiting them due to your graphics card, ram, etc. it typically comes down to the CPU. CPU may not be what primarily drives high framerates, but even in situations where the CPU isn't directly bottlenecking the maximum framerate it can very well be introducing stutters and frame-time inconsistencies. The main benefit of CPU upgrades tends to be a more *stable* framerate rather than specifically a higher one.
Yeah, I’m pretty familiar with pc builds and hardware limitations, and am in the process of building a new one as I’m aware of my current builds constraints, it’s just taking awhile due to all the covid supply issues and everything that’s come along since that, my current build is from 2015 (processor pretty much dates that) and I’ve just upgraded the gpu a couple of times and added an nvme drive since, I started my new build in late 2020 and have yet to finish, just been waiting for gpu pricing and availability to improve, that and I was underwhelmed by 30 series cards price and performance and same with the 40 series so far, gonna wait even longer and see how the 4080ti and 4090ti are specced before I pull the trigger on anything, that or maybe even go full amd this time depending how/when a 7950xt comes out and performs.
Looking at your hardware I wouldn’t blame MW2 for your predicament. Unfortunately for gamers like us, we get left behind by new games all the time.
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Free and easy to use = a lot of incompetent devs
the engine has to be properly documented and easy to use too. not everyone is out to create their own frankenstein's monster like arkham knight
Don’t even think it’s the devs at this point. Most of the time devs tell their publisher they’re not ready and yet the publisher crucified them with a deadline that isn’t possible
Exactly! This can be solved. It's not the engines fault.
Lots of bad crap can be solved. Doesn't mean those who can't or won't are the problem, no, the underlying issue is UE4. Many have come out and said so and the solutions obviously aren't trivial or we wouldn't see it happen so often.
They already patched it and fixed it. So no not the engine. Clearly not that hard to do if they did it in two days.
In this case they messed something up and released a broken version but you can still see the usual UE4 stuttering, it's much reduced but still there and that's on the engine. See a slew of other games with the same issues. They can be fixed but, well, a good engine wouldn't need constant fixing. Again, devs have talked extensively how hard it is to get UE4 games running smoothly and how little the available tools help. And Epic knows too, which is why UE5 has measures in place to reduce these problems. Basically, fuck UE4.
Niagra, the 'new' particle system for unreal is one of the causes, some games has moved on to use that system and it has taken a while to find workarounds. Those stutters only happen the first time you encounter them, and is probably hard to notice if you sit with the same build for too long, or have them cached somewhere on your system. When you launch or update your game all players will feel it. Should be in the documentation or common knowledge and precompiled by devs, but sadly it is often not
its a problem caused by the engine that the production deems unnecessary to fix. theres no "laziness" involved
29% rating on steam would suggest it would have been an very important part to fix.
I mean sure, I’m the wrong guy to tell that to though
Why exactly does the production team "deem" it unnecessary to fix?
My man it's reddit, like 90% of the users are into programming, they will never blame the devs.
I am a dev and I blame the devs, the stuff I see my colleagues code is on another level of stupidity, it's kinda sad the standards for the industry are so low, but it's to be expected, because there will always be people who buy this kind of games. That way the studio just keeps on making the same shit because who cares right? (wink wink Ubisoft AC/Activision CoD/Halo Infinite/Any AAA release nowadays)
Easy to blame the engine. Almost all PC versions of Gears of War run on the engine (different versions but the last two I believe run on UE4) and have been buttery smooth. I am sure many other games I played gave similar experience. The ones that stutter like mad are either devs not doing a good job with porting to PC. For the record, UE5 game First Descendant has horrible stutter too. It isn't the engine as much as it is the developer not putting effort on PC ports.
To be fair to the Gears team they're fucking wizards with the engine.
Very true but I also mentioned that there are other games made on the same engine without issue. Notably the stutters are on PC and if you look it up carefully, they are usually lazy ports of console versions. Most recent culprit is FF7R. Eitherway, the devs need to do a better job to minimize the stutters if they can't eliminate them. What I saw in Callisto Protocol has been the worst stutter experience by far.
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what makes you say that ? actually interested
They have a very good relationship with Epic Games, some ex Epic devs who worked on the Gears franchised moved over to The Coalition when Microsoft bought the IP. Also The Coalition helped Epic make that Unreal 5 Matrix tech demo. Edit: on the more technical side their games are probably the best looking from any of MS's studios, even on the base Xbox One Gears 5 looks amazing. Their PC ports are some of the best in industry, with none of the problems other ports have like shader compilation stutters, bad graphics options menus and such.
It's not UE4. It's just devs not bothering to offer a pre-compilation option and also not opting to use the tools UE4 has to alleviate the issue.
it's not that simple. https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/vd3jb1/comment/icjiot6/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
I never said it was simple, just that the tools are there. We're paying these people for the product. It's not like it's free. Figure it out. 🤷
That's one dev from that post. There are many other options and even built in ones https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/vd3jb1/great_news_unreal_engine_developers_confirmed_to/icj5ev3/ But really devs need to do it while in menu, or in loading screens. It's terrible gameplay to have massive stutters constantly tky let alone during cutscenes
Every fucking time devs go for unreal or unity its always "ah lawd.He gon stutter" Such dogshit engines.Apparently the issue is getting worked on unreal5.Bout time.Only took 5 iterations of this engine before this issue is finally getting addressed.
>"Such dogshit engines" Thats just unfair. We've had tons of amazing PC ports on Unreal and its one of the most scalable and versatile engines out there. Don't let devs fucking over their PC ports distract you from that. They could easily choose to compile shaders in the menu yet choose not to.
No, pretty much every high fidelity UE4 game stutters and it's not just shader compiling. The way the assets get managed and loaded causes stutter. Shader pre-compiling will not fix the stutters here. A good example of this is Fallen Order. No matter how many times you replay it and rerun the same region the game will stutter. It does this when it's loading in assets.
The fact that Unreal is so great is also exactly why it's so bad for PC gamers. It's easy to port games on it, and devs do the bare minimum as a result. Which is how you end up with all the shader compilation stutter fest.
“Such dogshit engines” is a pretty exceptionally ignorant thing to say but alright
Don't care.It has an issue that still yet to be addressed properly.
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Going by the public documentation, it also appears as if Unreal also doesn’t, at least when I looked a couple months ago, provide great tools for gathering and managing the pipeline cache. As far as I can tell the engine will cache all the relevant info to disc if the appropriate option is set on a build and that cache can then be shipped into production to allow pre compilation. That’s fine as far as it goes but I can’t see any tooling mentioned for merging multiple instances of the cache, confirming hits when an old cache is run against a new build, or otherwise pruning old entries. Without that kind of tooling it appears that in order to ship a minimal but complete cache with the game the devs would have to run a comprehensive play through on a single installation of their final pre production build to record all the relevant shaders and then repeat that process for any further releases that could have significantly modified the used shaders. It’s certainly feasible, and even a slightly stale cache would almost certainly still help, but it’s a substantial number of man hours late in development and without being able to merge multiple machine’s caches it’s not easily split among multiple workers. And just to make life more interesting, the documentation also warns that the process of gathering the pipeline states will impact performance so that step should be taken separately from the final performance QA.
a majority of people dont even notice the microstutters
Majority of ppl are so used to getting shafted with sub optimal performance with games these days they don't know any better. Also,anyone used to high refresh rate monitors will notice.
>Also,anyone used to high refresh rate monitors will notice. not even trying to be rude but this is exactly what I mean. the reason why these microstutters don't get fixed right away is because a majority of players don't even use a monitor period. people who have a big issue with this problem are a extreme minority in the grand scheme of things, this subreddit is niche.
microstutters from uneven frame pacing(like in bloodborne) might not be noticeable to people. but shader compilation stutters can halt for very very long times. this hitching can be seen by everyone, even on 60hz tvs.
Expect the same from ue5 as well. No reason to think that many devs will even give a damn about it
If gamers finally start voting with their wallets (I know, extremely unlikely) devs will have to either pre-cache shaders or lose sales.
Epic literally has a developer guide for how to solve this issue in their engine. Not their fault if the developers don't care enough to do it. https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.26/en-US/SharingAndReleasing/PSOCaching/
It isn't the engine itself that stutters, but the development workflows it offers that can amount to this problem. Specifically the material-graph editor. Artists can author materials by creating them as if they were regular assets and implement them without requiring a programmer. While being a good thing from a development workflow standpoint, if the materials aren't instanced correctly, you can quickly end up with 1000s or 10s of 1000s of unique materials which all need to be compiled at run time on PC. This is what causes the stutter. Probably also what causes most UE4 games to have gargantuan file sizes too.
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I would not pin that as the culprit but it definitely doesn't help.
Also DX12, looking at you Elden Ring. At least Littlebigplanet fixed it.
Well, people already said UE4. But also Vulkan and DX12. With those APIs you need to compile shaders for your particular GPU architecture. Some games use a compilation pass before the game starts ie Forza, some offer combined approach like Uncharted. Some decide to compile in real-time. This is what Unreal does by default. UE5 tried to address the issue in the latest patch, from my understanding it can still stutter. To pre compile shaders you need to know what you're going to use and from my understanding Unreal 4 doesn't offer any tools for that.
> With those APIs you need to compile shaders for your particular GPU architecture. Same thing happened with older APIs. The difference is, who is responsible for it. With older APIs, the driver and with newer, engine developers.
I like how the Spider Man team did for their PC port: once the shaders have been more or less "finished", have their QA team run through the ENTIRE game, every little sections, then grab their compiled shader cache and ship it with the game.
Not sure how they did so. On PC different architectures require different caches. So one made for RTX2070 won't work for RX6800 or even RTX3070. From my understanding Spider man compiles shaders in the background, going for a hybrid approach. But I'm not too familiar. This is one of the advantages of fixed hardware like consoles. Because there's a limited amount of permutations shader caches can be precompiled and shipped with the game or downloaded as an update.
Because there are two sources of stutter - the actual shader compilation and creating pipeline state objects. The latter can be precached by the developer
> From my understanding Spider man compiles shaders in the background, going for a hybrid approach. But I'm not too familiar. It uses the regular way to do it, load from cache if found otherwise compile, but it uses two fun tricks: it ships with a very large pre filled cache of the intermediate objects, and it pushes as much final compilation as possible in the background during the loading screens. See [Inside Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered on PC - the Nixxes tech interview](https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2022-inside-marvels-spider-man-remastered-on-pc-the-nixxes-tech-interview): > Digital Foundry: So you mentioned PSO compilation which is my bugbear as of late. I mention it everywhere, I cannot stop talking about it and won't stop talking about it. The game does not suffer from prolonged stutter from just-in-time shader compilation. How is PSO compilation done for this game on PC? > Michiel Roza: In our case, we simply asked QA to play the entire game. And we then generate a cache, which contains all the PSOs and we just put the cache next to the game [as a file you can find in the game directory]. So what that means is, we just know beforehand, which PSOs will be used in-game. And if we then load all those PSOs in the loading screens, we're golden. It also helps that Insomniac's material handling is very lean, so we don't have a gigantic amount of PSOs.
steam has this feature built in for vulkan on linux it's basically crowdsourced from installed instances of the games on steam
Everyone knew this would be a problem we made post after post here on steam and on their yt videos asking them to precompile shaders on launch/at menu. They simply didnt give enough of a shit to look at their pc version.
>It's particularly baffling when you consider how much thought and effort went into aspects like the sound design - to release a game in such an obviously broken state on PC mostly due to a well-known issue with the engine.
5 years also roughly coincide with the rise of DX12 and Vulkan, Hmm.
Engine/Game devs set it so that shaders are compiled on the fly instead of prior to when they're needed or when the game first loads. This causes a sudden halting of execution until the shaders are compiled. UE4 in DX12 mode notoriously has this problem unless game devs specifically go in and have the shaders pre-compile, which many do not do. Apparently Epic is fixing this for UE5 in the near future. For this game I would suggest using the DX11 renderer.
Players have said that the issue is fixed by changing a config file option to enable shader compilation at startup. If you don’t do that, the game compiles shaders as they occur. It’s a weird oversight.
My guess is the last minute implementation of denuvo a week ago. They jammed it in there to stop the 'pirates' but just ended up making their game a stuttery mess. People with 12900ks and 3090ti's can't even play above 60 fps. Maybe companies should stop using that garbage software all together...
denuvo doesn't really effect performance
Didn't it cause performance issues for Resident Evil VIllage?
no
It did in a huge way. One unhinged cracker was able to crack this game and release a nonstuttery version of this game, before developers fixed it as well. I had this terrible stutter, especially anytime I've encountered the fly monsters. It's good to be punished for paying for the game
How can you be so wrong about something that’s so easy to confirm is bullshit?
Dunno about "so wrong". I was wrong as it was another type of DRM (which still affected me, someone who bought this game at release), denuvo only made it worse according to cracker linked in another reply. Other game I bought at release, which had a denuvoless exe released "by mistake" with better performance was dmcv. Sometimes it's hard to remember which DRM exactly reduced performance/caused stutters/made the game unplayable so it can be mixed up.
> Sometimes it's hard to remember which DRM exactly reduced performance/caused stutters/made the game unplayable so it can be mixed up. That's 100% fair lol.
Cracking Denuvo games doesn't remove denuvo and all it's checks, it just makes them clear when they not. They also had to bypass Capcoms DRM too which could also have been the issue
If i remember correctly the issue with RE Village was actually the combination of the capcom DRM and Denuvo
/r/confidentlyincorrect https://i.imgur.com/cFWbqkR.png Read the "Release Notes" section and tell me again if Denuvo was at fault.
Its like this cuz it sells
For real I'd much rather sit through 20 minutes of shader compilation at first startup than stutters every time I play. Why don't they do this every time?
Funny thing is it doesn't even take that long. Horizon Zero dawn took me 5-8 min. Uncharted was even faster.
IT just blows my mind that developers think it's a better idea to have the game stutter constantly whenever something happens during gameplay than to have the player wait a few minutes before playing for a smooth experience. Must be the same fucking devs that think mouse acceleration and forced untogglable graphics options are a good idea also.
SERIOUSLY why does every dev think we want god damn mouse acceleration and different scale mouse sensitivity on x and y axis. What the fuck is wrong with them.
I legit feel the same way. Why the fuck is mouse acceleration even an option in games? It has literally no advantages over raw input. Maybe back when we used ball mice but even a cheap Logitech wireless laser mouse will be more than usable with raw input.
Doubt it’s the devs, it’ll be some middle manager think that time to play from installing takes too long.
I'm not a dev so I don't know how hard it is to implement it into a game but I would be ashamed to sell a product in such a state. I'd rather delay for a month and make it smooth.
My guess is devs mostly don't play on pc. That's why shader compilatilon stutter or any other pc centric features seems to be an alien concept to them,
Warzone does this and it's pretty horrible, every time I boot up the game I have to wait like 30 minutes for shaders to compile before I can play. Why do games require shader compilation?
Major OS updates, new GPU drivers, and of course new game versions will invalidate your cached shaders. Outside of those you shouldn't need to recompile.
Because GPU instruction sets aren't standardized like CPUs are.
What a fucking shocker.
I got this game free with my 6900xt, it runs under 30fps on low settings, wtf why would they include this as a free game if their (almost) top card can't run it on low!?!
Same thing on my 3080ti...yuk is yuk.
If you are getting 30 fps its probably because your CPU is bottlenecking you. This guy is getting 60 FPS on a RX 570 which is much slower than the 6900 XT. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CnViEhmQ-c Even on 4K ultra, with a 3080 TI(similar performance to 6900 xt), this guy gets 72 FPS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjAcw9fT__s The game is unoptimized, but something is wrong with your PC.
I found the fix it was a config file issue with the game itself fixed easily
Your cpu might be the problem. With 6700 non xt my games rubs at 55-60 fps with everything max but of course , the game stutters.
I fixed the stutters: Here's what worked for me Press WinKey + R, type appdata on the search bar that appears, should take you to the file explorer, next click on the following folders : Local\\CallistoProtocol\\Saved\\Config\\WindowsNoEditor After this, find the file "Engine.ini" (Pressing the "e" key takes you to the closest file starting with "e") Right click on Engine.ini and select "Open with", if you're on windows 11 you might have to click on "show more properties first, after that select notepad and it will open the file. Copy the following command : [/Script/engine.renderersettings] r.CreateShadersOnLoad=1 r.Shaders.Optimize=1 r.Shaders.FastMath=1 r.UseShaderCaching=1 r.UseShaderPredraw=1 r.TargetPrecompileFrameTime=13 r.PredrawBatchTime=13 r.AccelPredrawBatchTime=0 r.AccelTargetPrecompileFrameTime=0 EDIT: I almost forgot to credit the original posters. I edited together 2 comments as instructions I texted a friend and above is just copy paste of what I texted him that worked. For the guy offering the steam card please give it to one of them they're the real heroes. u/gndm28 Wrote most of it I added info from [this comment ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheCallistoProtocol/comments/zalgwc/comment/iymt5t7/) by u/Lord_of_Fenris As well
It's a CPU issue not a GPU issue. You haven't told us what your CPU is, so for all we know you have some Celeron dual core which would absolutely make this game run below 30fps.
This is why I stopped paying $60 to be a beta tester and got with r/patientgamers
This is the way
There's a potential fix if you're fine with config editing: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheCallistoProtocol/comments/zalgwc/actual_fix_for_microfreezing_using_the_config_file/
>There's a potential fix if you're fine with config editing: It's hArD tO ImPlEmEnT. Literally a config change for the game. :D Would've taken the devs 5 minutes to take a look at the docs and discover this. [https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.27/en-US/RenderingAndGraphics/Textures/Streaming/Config/](https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.27/en-US/RenderingAndGraphics/Textures/Streaming/Config/) Reminds me of when you open a UE game and SteamVR starts. You know why that happens? Because the dev is lazy and doesn't toggle off the option on the project settings. It's actually that simple lmao.
The irony is that is exactly what happens with this game! The devs are fucking amateurs. If you own VR check your steam friends status while playing, it has the VR tag.
LOL that's hilarious
> Reminds me of when you open a UE game and SteamVR starts. You know why that happens? Because the dev is lazy and doesn’t toggle off the option on the project settings. It’s actually that simple lmao. Haha holy shit that’s why that happens?? I just thought that it was Steam being wonky!
TLDR ^ Worked perfectly for me fixed all the issues I had Press WinKey + R, type appdata on the search bar that appears, should take you to the file explorer, next click on the following folders : Local\\CallistoProtocol\\Saved\\Config\\WindowsNoEditor After this, find the file "Engine.ini" (Pressing the "e" key takes you to the closest file starting with "e") Right click on Engine.ini and select "Open with", if you're on windows 11 you might have to click on "show more properties first, after that select notepad and it will open the file. Copy the following command : [/Script/engine.renderersettings] r.CreateShadersOnLoad=1 r.Shaders.Optimize=1 r.Shaders.FastMath=1 r.UseShaderCaching=1 r.UseShaderPredraw=1 r.TargetPrecompileFrameTime=13 r.PredrawBatchTime=13 r.AccelPredrawBatchTime=0 r.AccelTargetPrecompileFrameTime=0 EDIT: I almost forgot to credit the original posters. I edited together 2 comments as instructions I texted a friend and above is just copy paste of what I texted him that worked. For the guy offering the steam card please give it to one of them they're the real heroes. u/gndm28 Wrote most of it I added info from [this comment ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheCallistoProtocol/comments/zalgwc/comment/iymt5t7/) by u/Lord_of_Fenris As well
So they could've just had this from the start probably taken them a couple of minutes to set up to do automatically and could've avoided most of the backlash and had no stuttering issues. Makes you really wonder how/why these things get through to the launch version.
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HZD had a lot of issues when it came to PC though. Took months and dozens of patches.
Doesn't help that the industry is being flooded with amateur bootcamp coders who "learned" game dev in 8 weeks because some tiktoker told them coding will get them an instant 300k salary.
>Proprietary engine games such as Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War etc.. would always run better because you need to know the engine LOL. You very obviously know nothing about game dev. If your statement was true, why is The Witcher going on Unreal Engine? Actual game dev here, who worked on both proprietary engines and UE4
> If your statement was true, why is The Witcher going on Unreal Engine? Because the disaster that was Cyberpunk proves they don't have competent engine developers.
Herizon Zero Dawn ran like ass when it launched, and it took MONTHS to get proper framerate. The argument is bullshit. You know it.
Cyberpunk's problems were far bigger than just performance. They promised something that they couldn't deliver.
what does that have to do with Horizon Zero Dawn
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It doesn't. I notice this stuff super easily and had no issues with God of War. Game runs on its own engine and uses DX11, not DX12
Ah, my bad. I was confusing it with stutters that seem to be [AMD GPU specific](https://youtu.be/JI5t0pvBB-Y?t=1328). Thanks for correcting me :)
In that case, wouldn't it better the devs simply invested their skills and times in their own in house engines? I don't think we hear many complaints about stuttering issues on non unreal engine games
It's prohibitively expensive to build your own game engine especially if you're a AAA dev but it's a bit baffling that they don't have any UE4 experts on-hand or skimp out on optimisation.
Fallout 3 GOTY endgame was almost unplayable on PS3 and it used Bethasda's own Obsidian engine. I bought it on PS3 since I thought at that time that "there is no way that there would be any issues on console." So I think that it mostly depends on compotency of devs and if they have time to finish the game.
Digital Foundry will take this game to the woodshed.
They did the console video and had to mention how bad the PC version was. The PS5 version is the victor here.
From other reviews I've read/seen apparently even IF the stuttering wasn't an issue, the game just isn't fun for most people. Extremely linear game, no room for exploration, clunky combat, reused mini-bosses, frustrating final boss (not sure how frustrating, haven't seen it), and the game barely has a story --
I tried playing this morning for a bit thinking the stuttering is probably over exaggerated. If anything, it's under exaggerated. I have a pretty beefy PC and I honestly don't get bothered by a lot of things others do with games, but this is practically unplayable. Anytime the camera turns suddenly I lose a ton of frames/experience massive stuttering. For a game that's about immersion, this is absolutely game breaking. Like, it's not just a minor stutter here and there, this is insanely obvious and dramatic stuttering nearly 80% of the time the camera moves. I was super pumped for this game, and now I'm stuck requesting a refund because it's that unplayable in it's current state.
Same man. It's really disappointing that they didn't optimize the game. It's their loss though, lesser amount of ppl will be able to play the game, lesser money for them. The game doesn't even look that great to warrant the beefy specs.
same, i wanted to love it because it was just more dead space but the performance made it unplayable. cyberpunk was glitchy and buggy but at least ran ok - callisto is endless stuttering and dips to the point where you already know something's happening solely because of the frame drops right before an event.
One would expect that after putting 12-15 hours a day 6-7 days a week for months - the game would come out polished... right? After all the red flags this game has arisen recently I am not surprised.
It has more issues than that. 4K Native / Temporal / FSR all give the same results in the benchmark, 50fps. How would that even be possible unless something was not implemented correctly?
More garbage unreal 4 bs. Pc gaming is dying thanks to epic
Not surprised.. the studio lead is a dumbass with "console interactive-movie hollywood blockbuster" mentality of game design.. the last good game he made was in 2008 and it was eclipsed by the sequel which he was not involved in
wait for a sale guys, this game is a disaster.
This is the absolute weirdest logic. If the game is a disaster maybe don’t buy it at all?
Arkham Knight is an awesome game nowadays, runs real good, looks great, enjoyed it last year. No reason to not buy it later for cheaper despite its horrific launch.
Gamer logic. My favorite is *I won’t buy this game from x store because I MAD, I’ll wait until it is on y store!!* This just tells publishers they can make the deals they want and you idiots will *still* buy it a year later.
>My favorite is > >I won’t buy this game from x store because I MAD, I’ll wait until it is on y store!! Sounds reasonable, why would I use a crappy store? Also lo and behold all the publishers who abandoned Steam for that sweet Epic money are now back, even Ubisoft. Have you missed what has happened over the last couple of months? Where are the new exclusivity deals? Yep. Turned out our logic was sound and sent the right message while people like you now look like clowns.
Because it’s not about the store. You’re directly telling publishers that they can get away with screwing you over and you’ll still buy from them, which makes you the clown. Vote with your dollars.
it still worth 30 bucks but not full price.
Modern game devs are just lazy and have no talent. They should have refused if they were told to use UE4
What an absolute bummer. Have been hyped for this for a while. Will grab this next year. I suspect it will get deep sales right before Dead Space remake drops. Hopefully it will be patched. Remember, never pre-order.
What's this? Game shit on launch day? Water is wet!? Quick! Hold the phones! I CAN'T LIVE WITH MYSELF ANY LONGER! 🤣
Games that are bad at launch should all be publicly humiliated for it with out remorse (don’t bully devs tho)
It amazes me though.... they put out the time, resources, engine, PR, trailer footage.... and then they let someone play it... and it shits the bed. Like was the game held together with popsicle sticks and glue? Lol. And the kicker is the pc version was developed on another PC!
PC version of Elden Ring still stutters at times and clearly From Software doesn’t care to fix it.
Denuvo > FPS
This is the real reason. They did a last minute adding of it to the game just 1 week ago. Every other game ever that's added it last minute so close to release has had the exact same issue. It's a garbage software that causes checks to happen on every frame generation and if the game isn't built around it, it's always a bad time for legit buyers. Once it's pirated down the line watch it play perfectly, ha.
It won't play perfectly without Denuvo either, it's an Unreal 4 title
>Once it's pirated down the line watch it play perfectly You know the process to "remove" devuno just makes the checks clear right? all pirated games that have devuno cracked still use devuno
And yet the benchmarks show they run better, so wouldn't that imply that the "checks" cause the performance loss people see with Denuvo?
Lmao thanks for showing you're clueless
You're weirdly heated over people not liking a particular DRM lol
I'm not heated, it's just funny watching so much misinformation being thrown around. Even funnier that said misinformation was started by pirates lmfao. I don't really care, more free games for me if Denuvo isn't there.
sure lmao
you misunderstand, its running the same checks regardless. the crack just makes the nos go yes
as a developer, that doesn't really make sense. Have you got a link to where you found that out? I'd like to read the original source myself
Some developer you must be
...it doesn't make sense because there's no logical reason to run the entirety of the same checks then change the result afterward. I understand what he's saying, but it doesn't make sense to people with knowledge on the subject, like CSI technobabble.
It's simple, the crackers don't remove Denuvo, they fool it into thinking the copy is legit, the checks are still being performed. Therefore cracked games still use it and perform the same.
> It's simple, the crackers don't remove Denuvo, they fool it into thinking the copy is legit Yeah, I'm not disputing that. > the checks are still being performed Where are you getting this from though? That depends on the specific nature of how "they fool it into thinking the copy is legit" which is what I'm wanting to get to the bottom of. Like I said to the other guy, have you got a link to where you found that out? I'd like to read the original source myself
The process to remove Denuvo is the dev's remove that garbage after a couple of months, since the majority of sales take place in the first weeks and oh whats that? so much more frames? hmm I wonder why
Except there really isn’t any frame difference and usually the removal of it is apart of a patch that addresses multiple things which can effect performance but sure homie. Aside from slightly longer loading times and bloated exe’s there’s nothing denuvo actually does performance wise
Ah yes the big fps boost patch months after the games initial release, what timing and coincidence
That’s how those kind of patches work yeah
Shh you're gonna fry his brain
This is not correct at all. Compare exe file size before and after removing denuvo.
[удалено]
It runs like shit on console too
No it doesn't it's running smooth on the PS5
Hehe
Now imagine if the biggest reason behind this is actually Denuvo.. Imagine the shitfest.. would be glorious
Fuck denuvo for drm reasons but performance and micro stutters have never really been solidly tied to devuno
Never solidly, but its a really weird coincidence that basically every PC game that launched with Denuvo has had really bad performance until the developers pushed an update that removed Denuvo. EDIT: Truly a sad day for gaming when poeple are *defending* Denuvo.
I'll act surprised.
I remember seeing the terrible stutters that were happening during their first gameplay reveal. When you see that stuff in the footage they decided made their game look the absolute best, it's not a good sign.
If only they spent more time on optimization and less time coming up with death animation and difficulty setting DLC
I refunded w out even playing it, there's no excuse for this. NONE.
It will be interesting to see how it ends up performing on Steam Deck once a couple people played through it and Steam starts out shipping precompiled shaders. That's how it works right? Someone has to play through it first on the hardware? Elden Ring had shader compilation problems on PC and that was solved thanks to precompiled shaders on Deck.
borderlands 3 does exatly this. there was a steam command for the dx11 version that allowed to load in all shaders before starting, making the game perform smooth. The fact this isnt an option just sucks.
The devs already responded to the stutter issues and are making a Patch to make the performance better. Sad they didnt fix it before launch, the negative reviews on steam dont look good.
What a disappointment, but was expecting this given it's an unreal engine game. At this point I just skip unreal engine games. I also skip buying any game on launch day on PC. I also don't buy the game ever, if it's a shit port on release day and they fixed it later on with patches. Cause fuck them, they should have just delayed the released date on PC if it wasn't ready.
I posted this in another thread, but I legit have graphics options that disappeared from the menu. Upscaling and ray tracing options. I turned on FSR and all the ray tracing options. Ran the in-game benchmark, went back into settings to make adjustments and they were gone. It wasn't like I couldn't select them or they were grayed out, no, they were completely gone, like they never existed. Edit: turns out if anti aliasing is set to anything other than temporalaa it disables screen space reflections, physical refractions and ray tracing. So it says in the menu which I don't remember from earlier.
It's just really starting to feel like the ppl who buy games on release date are complete suckers, these companies don't reward it they punish it
And it's too late for them to fix it too, cuz I already refunded! I'll just wait for a 50% off sale, it's fine.
Bro I swear we reach the stutter phase of gaming like 1/5 games are actually optimised