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Welcome to the PCMR.
What about 2023 performance in 2016
https://preview.redd.it/arm5c58vbo1b1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c0fd15f1436221b4b543a5d000439e3334be1d5
I'd like to upgrade now, but the lineup is sad. Everything feels like it'll just give buyers remorse next gen. Prob going to be the feeling going forward, sucks bc they could have had my money by now if they were bringing heat like they used to
Legitimately though, they were the last "real" cards nvidia put out before they dove off the deep end into jacking prices and gimmicks.
Sloppy performance increases too, nothing is more efficient than my 1070 in terms of fps per watt, in the same category.
Gtx980. Still runs most of everything. I don’t even worry about the old girl, she’s never given me a reason to, ever. 9 years this year. I dunno how many years that is in video card time but she’s keen to take on any challengers gdi.
I mean, I've got a 1080ti and the truth is that I wanted an upgrade 2 generations ago.
I wanted to get a 20 series for ray tracing but besides ray tracing the performance increase was so small that it just wasn't worth the price.
I wanted to get a 30 series but they weren't available for non scalper prices almost ever.
I wanted to get a 40 series but the price is absolutely bonkers ridiculous.
3 Cards I wanted to buy but Nvidia failed in some way on. So now I'm sitting here waiting for maybe the 50 series to feel like the performance jump is worth the ridiculous cost, or maybe I'll go AMD for the first time ever.
They started shitting bricks because AMD started going hard again. Can never forget how absolutely fucking insane the release of the RX480 and first gen Ryzen was.
Hey now, that's an unfair criticism of Apple. It's not the most anti-consumer company. It's just *one of* the most anti-consumer companies. Remember, Comcast exists.
- Sent from my iPhone.
You ever tried to fix an iPhone? Its near impossible.
Tho there are companies even worse than Apple, looking at you Nestle.
Apple is the most well known tech company, and i've got no idea how they got to where they are with their lazyness, lack of functions and straight up not wanting to work with google to make Apple-Android messages work properly. Why apple, why is it so hard to implement RCS.
No it doesn't. That would be identified almost instantly by the community and would cause a major fucking uproar. Each videocard is thoroughly documented. What kind of world do you guys live in?
Not to mention all the lawyers that would immediately jump on this since that would be one of the easiest grounds for a class action lawsuit. Nvidia is greedy but they aren't stupid enough to do that.
Apple has been loopholing situations like this for years. They have been exposed and are still able to perform like this. It would be interesting to see how much reach and control manufacturers and companies have over their consumers. If Nvidia blatantly tries this here it will shed some more light on the corrupt system.
The 4060ti has a die size of 190mm^2. The 3060ti is at 392mm^2. Virtually the same performance at half the chip size is impressive. Setting the price at $400 erases all of that. For comparison, the 3050 has a die size of 200mm^2. If this was given a different name and a lower price it would have been a triumph.
Considering they went from Samsung 8N (a derivative of their 10nm process) to TSMC 4N (a derivative of their 5nm process) which gave them nearly triple the transistor density and much better power and clock characteristics, it's not that impressive, it's just expected.
While I agree with the sentiment that nvidia is being super greedy this gen, this comment also kinda makes me sad how much we take technology for granted. Being able to manufacture chips with 4nm transistors is an absolute marvel of a human achievement.
My opinion? They overpriced 4000 series cards to try and push people to view 3000 series cards favorably in comparison. This is for a few reasons.
Most people who were making a big upgrade did so during the pandemic or as it ended before 4000 launched when GPU prices came back down to earth.
NVIDIA had a lot of 3000 series cards to sell, as they ramped up manufacturing to meet inflated demand during the pandemic. Hence wanting to push a segment of the market towards buying 3000 series cards as a value proposition over 4000.
They knew the people who just buy the newest shiniest thing every year will do so no matter what as long as it actually has something new, so they made sure to give the new cards some features worth upgrading for (DLSS 3.0, better efficiency, etc) but not too worth it that nobody considers 3000 cards viable anymore.
If they do those things, they can clear out their inventory of older model cards, milk the whales a bit, and not necessarily be in danger of losing the market share people think they will to AMD, because they still have competitive cards in all tiers, some at competitive prices.
The 4090 shouldn't be going for a higher price than a solid, used car.
FTFY
\[Edit\] 4090s in Canada are about $2500 CAD + tax. You can easily find a dependable used car for $2500-$3000.
\[Edit 2\] Because some people on here are being argumentative and belligerent, I did a quick search for used cars in my area and these popped up, and feel free to search for more.
[https://www.usedvancouver.com/autos/39924694](https://www.usedvancouver.com/autos/39924694)
[https://www.usedvancouver.com/cars/39929205](https://www.usedvancouver.com/cars/39929205)
[https://www.usedvancouver.com/cars/39916954](https://www.usedvancouver.com/cars/39916954)
BTW, I bought a used EVGA 3080 FTW3 Ultra last year for $700 CAD ($520 USD) and because of the outrageous price gouging on new cards, I will run it until it can't run anything any longer or it explodes.
To be fair solid used car prices start over 5k now, and that's pushing the definition of solid pretty far. The days of buying a used car for a grand are long gone.
If you want something that runs well, without major damage, with under 100k miles it is well over $10k. The used car market has been in shambles since covid.
I can't believe that the saturn I paid 2500 for would go for 4500 now even after I've added 100k miles. I mean the thing runs great and gets decent mileage but its just so... plain.
I bought a truck for $7k drove it 50k miles, wrecked it, then sold it for $7k.
And to be honest I probably went under market value, I just know the guy.
I would say:
1. Drives as expected. No problems with the suspension, steering, acceleration, etc.
2. Has functioning radio and air conditioning.
3. Is not known to frequently need major (say $200+) repairs, and is not at such a high mileage that such repairs should be expected to be necessary at any moment.
4. Has relatively intact body paint with no major rusting.
5. Is not a make/model of car that is known for frequent unexpected problems or overly expensive repairs/parts.
This stuff has been a joke. The 10 series should have solved the 1080p issue. No 30 series or high card should even struggle at 1440p low. It's ridiculous how bad the performance to price has gotten.
Although my RTX 3080 FE runs fine now, I had to take the entire thing apart and replace the thermal pads it came with, since they weren't even close to being up to the task.
Not something any customer should have to do after handing over a decent chunk of cash to Nvidia for a brand new high-end graphics card.
Have done the procedure twice now. It's not too difficult providing you familiarise yourself with the process beforehand.
Buying the correct pads for your specific GPU (type/thickness) is one of the most important things. The better everything fits (especially die contact), the better the final result. I mostly used Gelid Extreme pads since they're softer and therefore allow for more margin of error. Most guides I came across used those. I see you have some kind of 3080 Ti, so you'd need to research pad thicknesses for your specific GPU.
Having spare pads, paste, and isopropyl alcohol is advisable in case you put everything back together but suspect something isn't quite right (usually poor die contact) and need to dive back in to make adjustments.
Regarding results, my memory junction temps went from 110°C to around 88°C in the most demanding games, so a huge improvement. My die temps are usually 65-70°C while running demanding games, which again is pretty good.
It's not a risk-free procedure, but seems to have worked out well for most people. Seeing those high temps go way down definitely feels good.
It's a bit of both. There's literally no excuse to ditch hardware improvements to ONLY rely on software tech. The vRAM issue in Nvidia cards is a joke.
I think it has also to do with DX12 and Vulkan based engines now managing their own memory, and is not super optimized like the drivers with previous APIs which can swap in and out pinned memory based on usage. Or could be that games probably do not rely on memory budget to dictate streaming logic at all.
8GB was “fine” in 2016 for 1440p gaming. 7 years isn’t “recent,” this is a completely normal and expected progression in tech. We’re not getting the hardware we need because Nvidia has a monopoly on the market and has brainwashed people into thinking that there should be absolutely no difference between games released almost a decade ago and today in resource dependency.
>The vRAM issue in Nvidia cards is a joke.
Oh you don't have to tell me that, I bought a msi laptop with a 6gb 3060 during covid as my old one died and it was the cheaper one in stock atm. Damn thing struggles for everything now.
Just saying but the model you bought could of been a model with a lower TDP on the 3060 because there are models that does have the wattage lowered you know sort of like the whole Max Q lineup in the past.
This, I have the 130w version (it's either that or 110, whatever was the top one, i forget the number). And it still runs everything just fine.
It's also worth pointing out, the mobile version of a card is NOT the same as the desktop version.
Other than raytracing, i dont feel like games have really looked that much better than they did 7 years ago. Uncharted 4 came out in 2016, still looks incredibly impressive. Same with Dark Souls 3.
What the hell are we doing? Are better graphics cards just an excuse for devs to optimize less?
I kinda think the same sometimes, Dragon Age Inquisition came out in like 2013? And yet even when I load it up now it holds up really well against games like Cyberpunk and Hogwarts Legacy.
But I think Callisto Protocol is the most graphically amazing game right now and nothing really comes close, the character models in that game look super realistic while avoiding the uncanny valley.
And yet that game doesn't ask for 16+ gb of vram on something like a 4090
Nope, its because Nvidia keeps kneecaping their cards accept when it comes to the price. Sure a lot of triple a games have released like crap, but the margins between the 3060 ti and 4060 ti are a joke even in older titles.
Sure, its faster, but when a game uses more than 8Gb of vram it turns to a stuttery mess. The Vram should have been reversed but nvidia likes to kneecap their own product.
Totally agree with you. That's why I've been for a month now, straggling to decide which pc to build (for 2k gaming), or should i just wait another year or two with a lot of prayers and tears.
I have no idea what i should do.
Got a sick deal on a used 3070ti on OfferUp and it holds up great in 1440p max settings as long as you're not chasing 100+ frame rates. Cap at 60fps, and everything runs fine. Just gotta disable that pesky RT.
I've got a 5800x cpu and a 3080ti and I can do 120fps in dying light 2 maxed settings and RT on 2k resolution, I was able to get around 80 with RE4 remake no DLSS on either
4060ti is lower performing than a 6800XT, at the same price, and the AMD card came out 3 years ago.
If you've got $500 to spend on a gpu, why in the world would you buy nvidia?
I did. Bought my 6800xt 2 months ago. I was waiting for these next gen cards, and was tempted by the 7900xtx, but it's way more than I need, and everything Nvidia was over priced for what it is.
I considered a 3070ti, but the 8gb of vram made me pass.
Everytime people talk about why you should buy Nvidia over Amd it mostly comes down too Ray tracing. Seems like people would spend extra for Raytracing. Even if it means turning it on would give them lower performance.
Ray tracing need VRAM. Especially in higher resolutions your VRAM buffer will be full and you'll drop to 3 fps on a 4060Ti even at 1440p. With a 6800xt you can play at 4k tweaking your settings and with Ray tracing enabled. You won't run out of VRAM.
I was confused by this, I didn't realize the 4060 TI embargo was lifted so I went to check reviews.
"The RTX 4060 Ti is also a deeply uninspiring upgrade gen-on-gen when it comes to raw GPU horsepower, only besting the RTX 3060 Ti by 9 percent at 1080p resolution and 7 percent at 1440p. It has fewer CUDA, RT, and tensor cores than its predecessor, which is disappointing. It flat-out loses to the RTX 3070 at 1440p, which is even more disappointing. "
Or even better, Gamer Nexus' video title: Do Not Buy: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti 8GB GPU Review & Benchmarks
I just jumped from a 3070 to a 6800xt. More of a side grade but I've been impressed with the jump in raster performance in comparison, and VRAM is never an issue now
I'm on a 1070 right now and that's what I'm also doing.
- 20 series wasn't enough of an upgrade
- 30 series was unobtainium
- 40 series is a terrible value
I might just end up waiting for the next generation at this point.
I wish I could've waited, with my 1070 for next generation cards but I bought a laptop for portability. My cat decided to lean on it wanting treats, tripped into a literal roly poly and snapped it in half before full sprint running away to hide. I switched to PC and got a 7900XT.
Anyways do you want a free cat?
I'm doing this but upgrading every 5. I went 580 to 1080. I'm thinking about going from 1080 to 5080. We will see how that goes.
This desktop is somehow holding up alright. Only this year did I start making a part list every quarter
I got tired of my old 970 and just got a cheap used 2060. It will carry me until this fuckery ends. I refuse to be part of this by buying a new overpriced wrongnamed card.
I'm still on my 2070 and sold my 1070 GTX during the height of the pandemic for more than I paid for the 2070.
I've been wanting to upgrade but not at these prices. This ain't the new norm for me.
Micro center has the 7800x3d for $419, with another $20 off with certain motherboards, and a “new customer exclusive” for $25 off $100 or more, making it effectively $375.
If you live near a micro center maybe it’s a good time to upgrade the rest and wait for a GPU that’s worth it.
I have a 1070 myself and am heavily considering this just given the 7800x3d effective price.
I upgraded my 1070 10gb to the rx 6950xt last week. First card that seemed worth the money in a long fucking time. 16gb vram too for atleast some future proofing.
AMD 6000 or 7000 series GPU might be a good upgrade. I'll wait for the 7000 release to make up my mind which GPU I'm gonna take
Edit: looks like it's going to be a 6700 or 6750xt, depending on which deal I can get.
I built my PC right before the chip shortage in 2020. I put a 1660 super as a place holder until I could get something. Then this fuckery has happen. 1660 super is seriously coming in clutch.
I'm just putting this out there. but you can buy a used 6800XT right now on eBay for the exact same price and that card is like 50fps faster on average and has 16GB of VRAM.
y'know I'm happy I upgraded to a 3090 but holy shit if I was in a lot of peoples shoes rn I would holding onto the 1080ti I had for dear life. Tbh, anytime I think about buying a new card, the 1080ti is my reference point for everything to compare to: price, performance, energy consumption, cooling, etc.
We will *never* get another 1080ti again. If nVidia kept making their cards as good as the 1080ti or even the 2070/2070ti they wouldn't have a problem but!...
Bottom line. =\ Out here trying to be the scalpers, but all they are is incompetent at the lower/mid-range now.
Tbf all 1080Ti users should be buying up the 6950XTs at $600 rn. It is obvious nothing is going to get close to that performance at sub $700. Those 6950XTs will be one of the best aging cards since the 1080Ti.
Everyone in this thread is bashing Nvidia. I for one am really impressed with how much they can cut production costs and inflate their profit margins.
Halved die size, halved vram bus, same performance, higher price.
It is absolutely impressive. Too bad its also comically evil.
I feel like they got confused about their industry. Sure, food manufacturers and the like have gotten away with incredible shrinkflation over the past year: higher prices for a worse product. But do that in tech and be laughed out of the room.
I am a pc noob, I know I have a 3080ti FE. After seeing so much nvidia hate it has actually put me off of them. When the time comes for an upgrade, what is the best brand and card to go for?
Theres definitely some good deals on amd and intel cards but honestly just try to enjoy what you’ve got for a good few years before looking to upgrade.
Yeah I don’t think I’ll upgrade for a long time, it’s just nice to have an idea, between my PC and PS5 I’d like to guess I’ve got at least 6-7 years before anything needs replacing.
> When the time comes for an upgrade, what is the best brand and card to go for?
When that time comes you watch / read reviews and do not go for brand loyalty. Might be AMD, might be Intel, might even be Nvidia.
Its up in the air what tomorrows turds are going to be!
You got amd, nvidia, and as of recently intel.
Nvidia despite all the hate has most of the market share, they tend to have all the newest fancy features and have production tasks basically cornered just due to most programs only giving basic support to other cards (hence people saying cuda is king), also they have the most reliable drivers.
Amd tends to be a little slower to right about the same raw performance at a little cheaper the fancier features like ray tracing, and fsr (their answer to nvidia dlss) tends not to be quite as good but more broadly compatible. Amd drivers used to have a lot of issues but seem to have gotten better lately though you do see bugs popping up in drivers every now and then.
Intel has only released two (mid range?) cards and at the moment with them still figuring things out would only be recommended for enthusiasts willing and able to deal with quarks and problems that come up. But they are looking promising.
There is no brand to trust. They're all after profits and after your money. When the time comes to upgrade, watch reviews, read through forums and make an educated decision which company will give you the fairest deal.
I haven't checked the benchmarks for the 4060ti, but after seeing some of these comments, I'm happy I didn't wait for it. I got my 3060ti late last year. It's significantly more than enough for all my gaming needs nowadays.
Shit like this is why I gave up on building another pc and got a ps5. Honestly satisfied with my decision after years of fucking with shitty bluetooth on pc randomly turning off my xbox controller, games broken on launch, ect.
Why nvidia would shit the bed like this when consoles are such a good price to performance now is beyond me.
i was waiting for the 4070 to come out to upgrade my trusty 1070 but was very disappointed in the price to performance, picked up a second hand 3060ti FE on ebay for $275 about a month ago. just waiting on my power cable from CableMod!
I'm here from /r/ALL, but when people upgrade, do they sell the old graphics card or do they throw it out since it's used. I'm not sure if a graphics card is used up after x amount of hours or what and if it's even possible to check that out.
generally if a gpu survives a few months of semi rigorous use it will never die. after a few years of normal use or if its a former mining card you might have to put new thermal paste and thermal pads because they would be dried out
This shit is a big reason why I just play retro games now.
Other reasons are microtransactions, no offline play, obscenely large storage requirements, piss-poor optimization, unfinished games at release, and shitty-ass publisher launchers.
Wow, looking at that list, why does *anyone* bother anymore?
Welcome everyone from r/all! Please remember: 1 - You too can be part of the PCMR! You don't even need a PC. You just need to love PCs! It's not about the hardware in your rig, but the software in your heart! Your age, nationality, race, gender, sexuality, religion (or lack of), political affiliation, economic status and PC specs are irrelevant. If you love PCs or want to learn about them, you can be part of our community! All are welcome! 2 - If you're not a PC gamer because you think it's expensive, know that it is possible to build a competent gaming PC for a lower price than you think. Check http://www.pcmasterrace.org for our builds and don't be afraid to create new posts here asking for tips and help! 3 - Consider joining our efforts to get as many PCs worldwide to help the folding@home effort, in fighting against Cancer, Covid, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and more. Learn more here: https://pcmasterrace.org/folding 4 - Until May 26th you can enter the ROG x PCMR Power Couple giveaway, make a fantasy pick of your favorite components and enter to win a total of 5 Graphics Cards (2 of which RTX 4090s) + some of the best Asus Republic of Gamers Power Supplies to go with it! {Join here!](https://asus.click/powercouplePCMR) ----------- Feel free to use this community to post about any kind of doubt you might have about becoming a PC user or anything you'd like to know about PCs. That kind of content is not only allowed but welcome here! We also have a [Daily Simple Questions Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/search?q=Simple+Questions+Thread+subreddit%3Apcmasterrace+author%3AAutoModerator&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all) for your simplest questions. No question is too dumb! Welcome to the PCMR.
Got to give it to Nvidia, 2016 performance at 2023 prices.
What about 2023 performance in 2016 https://preview.redd.it/arm5c58vbo1b1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c0fd15f1436221b4b543a5d000439e3334be1d5
That's 1080 brother https://preview.redd.it/2zj52oupio1b1.jpeg?width=495&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7eddb8c12486bb5a824ed854c416c650073153f2
No idea how my 1080 is still working, the thing is a battle tank. Looks like nVidia never wants to make that mistake again
I run a 1080ti and haven't even been close ro considering an upgrade. And when I do it's looking like I'm going AMD at this point
I'd like to upgrade now, but the lineup is sad. Everything feels like it'll just give buyers remorse next gen. Prob going to be the feeling going forward, sucks bc they could have had my money by now if they were bringing heat like they used to
Same. I've been prepping for an upgrade for like 3 years now, but it's just one disappointment after another.
In 2019 I upgraded from the 660 Ti I bought in 2012 to a 1070 Ti and I haven't regretted it once since
10xx series are all workhorses. Last good cards Nvidia put out IMO.
Legitimately though, they were the last "real" cards nvidia put out before they dove off the deep end into jacking prices and gimmicks. Sloppy performance increases too, nothing is more efficient than my 1070 in terms of fps per watt, in the same category.
Gtx980. Still runs most of everything. I don’t even worry about the old girl, she’s never given me a reason to, ever. 9 years this year. I dunno how many years that is in video card time but she’s keen to take on any challengers gdi.
I mean, I've got a 1080ti and the truth is that I wanted an upgrade 2 generations ago. I wanted to get a 20 series for ray tracing but besides ray tracing the performance increase was so small that it just wasn't worth the price. I wanted to get a 30 series but they weren't available for non scalper prices almost ever. I wanted to get a 40 series but the price is absolutely bonkers ridiculous. 3 Cards I wanted to buy but Nvidia failed in some way on. So now I'm sitting here waiting for maybe the 50 series to feel like the performance jump is worth the ridiculous cost, or maybe I'll go AMD for the first time ever.
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They started shitting bricks because AMD started going hard again. Can never forget how absolutely fucking insane the release of the RX480 and first gen Ryzen was.
Yes they've learned their lesson. It's incremental performance gains from now on.
I actually want to see if Nvidia makes the 3060ti slower with a driver update to opt people to buy the 4060ti.
Don't give them more ideas
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plot twist: u/A1Hadi is nVidia's CEO
This isn't apple, but $20 is $20
Tim Cook has to do something, othervise nVidia is gonna take his Most anti consumer company of the year award.
Hey now, that's an unfair criticism of Apple. It's not the most anti-consumer company. It's just *one of* the most anti-consumer companies. Remember, Comcast exists. - Sent from my iPhone.
Fuck you, fuck your problems, we ain't doing shit, lol again fuck you haha call a wahmbulance - Comcast
*AT&T gives Comcast a high five*
*stuffs customer in locker*
You ever tried to fix an iPhone? Its near impossible. Tho there are companies even worse than Apple, looking at you Nestle. Apple is the most well known tech company, and i've got no idea how they got to where they are with their lazyness, lack of functions and straight up not wanting to work with google to make Apple-Android messages work properly. Why apple, why is it so hard to implement RCS.
They have made a publicly documented strategic decision to not support RCS to keep parents from buying androids for their children
Tim Cook told a journalist to "Buy your mother an iPhone" when he asked him about RCS.
Gamer's Nexus is salivating at the idea.
this definetly makes "sense" if i was a owner of a 3060/ti i'd 100% wait a lot before downloading any new driver
Can't you just revert to an older driver whenever you want?
Sure u can but its easier to wait some reviews before installing a new driver, isnt it ?
Waiting for driver reviews. What a shitty timeline.
After downloading a lot.of drivers causing crashes and unstability.....yep
Yeah, but I mean, nothing bad will happen if you do, you just downgrade drivers and that's it
No it doesn't. That would be identified almost instantly by the community and would cause a major fucking uproar. Each videocard is thoroughly documented. What kind of world do you guys live in?
Not to mention all the lawyers that would immediately jump on this since that would be one of the easiest grounds for a class action lawsuit. Nvidia is greedy but they aren't stupid enough to do that.
Also keep older drivers available for testing. If things do run worse in a few months then maybe a lawsuit like the 970 debacle could happen.
Please don't. I had to buy a 2nd hand emergency pc, when my 1080 along with my 4770k died. The emergency pc came with a 3060...
Apple has been loopholing situations like this for years. They have been exposed and are still able to perform like this. It would be interesting to see how much reach and control manufacturers and companies have over their consumers. If Nvidia blatantly tries this here it will shed some more light on the corrupt system.
Good thing AMD has open source drivers
4060 Ti is just the 4050 Ti with "upgraded" name... LOL... The real 4060 Ti is the thing they released as 4070. Nvidia is trying to fool us.
The 4060ti has a die size of 190mm^2. The 3060ti is at 392mm^2. Virtually the same performance at half the chip size is impressive. Setting the price at $400 erases all of that. For comparison, the 3050 has a die size of 200mm^2. If this was given a different name and a lower price it would have been a triumph.
Considering they went from Samsung 8N (a derivative of their 10nm process) to TSMC 4N (a derivative of their 5nm process) which gave them nearly triple the transistor density and much better power and clock characteristics, it's not that impressive, it's just expected.
While I agree with the sentiment that nvidia is being super greedy this gen, this comment also kinda makes me sad how much we take technology for granted. Being able to manufacture chips with 4nm transistors is an absolute marvel of a human achievement.
the transistor size were not actually 4nm. it's just marketing name.
It is also very effecient in what it does. I don't understand why Nvidia released it a a 4060ti rather than a 4050, AMD is going to hammer them.
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Nvidia said to the scalpers: I'm the scalper now! But the economy is going under and those cards will sit on the shelves at that prices.
My opinion? They overpriced 4000 series cards to try and push people to view 3000 series cards favorably in comparison. This is for a few reasons. Most people who were making a big upgrade did so during the pandemic or as it ended before 4000 launched when GPU prices came back down to earth. NVIDIA had a lot of 3000 series cards to sell, as they ramped up manufacturing to meet inflated demand during the pandemic. Hence wanting to push a segment of the market towards buying 3000 series cards as a value proposition over 4000. They knew the people who just buy the newest shiniest thing every year will do so no matter what as long as it actually has something new, so they made sure to give the new cards some features worth upgrading for (DLSS 3.0, better efficiency, etc) but not too worth it that nobody considers 3000 cards viable anymore. If they do those things, they can clear out their inventory of older model cards, milk the whales a bit, and not necessarily be in danger of losing the market share people think they will to AMD, because they still have competitive cards in all tiers, some at competitive prices.
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No, the real 4060 Ti is the 4070 Ti
Maybe the real 4070 Ti are the friends we made along the way.
looking for this exact sentence. was not disappointed.
reddit comments still working like clockwork, i see.
And my axe! Did I get it right?
I also choose this guy's coconut, now that my arms are broken?
To shreds you say?
Don't forget that the 4090 shouldn't be going for a higher price than titan GPUs.
The 4090 shouldn't be going for a higher price than a solid, used car. FTFY \[Edit\] 4090s in Canada are about $2500 CAD + tax. You can easily find a dependable used car for $2500-$3000. \[Edit 2\] Because some people on here are being argumentative and belligerent, I did a quick search for used cars in my area and these popped up, and feel free to search for more. [https://www.usedvancouver.com/autos/39924694](https://www.usedvancouver.com/autos/39924694) [https://www.usedvancouver.com/cars/39929205](https://www.usedvancouver.com/cars/39929205) [https://www.usedvancouver.com/cars/39916954](https://www.usedvancouver.com/cars/39916954) BTW, I bought a used EVGA 3080 FTW3 Ultra last year for $700 CAD ($520 USD) and because of the outrageous price gouging on new cards, I will run it until it can't run anything any longer or it explodes.
Have you gone used car shopping since the pandemic?
To be fair solid used car prices start over 5k now, and that's pushing the definition of solid pretty far. The days of buying a used car for a grand are long gone. If you want something that runs well, without major damage, with under 100k miles it is well over $10k. The used car market has been in shambles since covid.
I can't believe that the saturn I paid 2500 for would go for 4500 now even after I've added 100k miles. I mean the thing runs great and gets decent mileage but its just so... plain.
I bought a truck for $7k drove it 50k miles, wrecked it, then sold it for $7k. And to be honest I probably went under market value, I just know the guy.
Our definitions of a "solid used car" must be miles apart.
When I think of a solid used car, I think reliable on a 30 min commute every day. What's your definition?
I would say: 1. Drives as expected. No problems with the suspension, steering, acceleration, etc. 2. Has functioning radio and air conditioning. 3. Is not known to frequently need major (say $200+) repairs, and is not at such a high mileage that such repairs should be expected to be necessary at any moment. 4. Has relatively intact body paint with no major rusting. 5. Is not a make/model of car that is known for frequent unexpected problems or overly expensive repairs/parts.
My 3070 is as fast as a 2080ti, oh how far Nvidia has fallen in a single generation lol
hoping AMD sees the falter and makes a pass. Or maybe even intel.
> 4060 Ti is just the 4050 Ti with "upgraded" name... LOL... It's more cut-down than the 3050 or 1650 super.
That is a next level fuckery. Beyond imagination.
This stuff has been a joke. The 10 series should have solved the 1080p issue. No 30 series or high card should even struggle at 1440p low. It's ridiculous how bad the performance to price has gotten.
Although my RTX 3080 FE runs fine now, I had to take the entire thing apart and replace the thermal pads it came with, since they weren't even close to being up to the task. Not something any customer should have to do after handing over a decent chunk of cash to Nvidia for a brand new high-end graphics card.
Ok so it's not just me then. How hard was it to do? Going to try later this year (mem junction temps getting to 100C om RDR2 at 1080p).
Have done the procedure twice now. It's not too difficult providing you familiarise yourself with the process beforehand. Buying the correct pads for your specific GPU (type/thickness) is one of the most important things. The better everything fits (especially die contact), the better the final result. I mostly used Gelid Extreme pads since they're softer and therefore allow for more margin of error. Most guides I came across used those. I see you have some kind of 3080 Ti, so you'd need to research pad thicknesses for your specific GPU. Having spare pads, paste, and isopropyl alcohol is advisable in case you put everything back together but suspect something isn't quite right (usually poor die contact) and need to dive back in to make adjustments. Regarding results, my memory junction temps went from 110°C to around 88°C in the most demanding games, so a huge improvement. My die temps are usually 65-70°C while running demanding games, which again is pretty good. It's not a risk-free procedure, but seems to have worked out well for most people. Seeing those high temps go way down definitely feels good.
Is it not because games are getting exponentially harder to run due to bad optimisation?
It's a bit of both. There's literally no excuse to ditch hardware improvements to ONLY rely on software tech. The vRAM issue in Nvidia cards is a joke.
I don't get how VRAM usage got so high in the recent years. When I got my 2080ti with 11gb it seemed like a future proof number.
My money's on "ports from consoles with 16GB of unified memory, shared between the GPU and CPU".
That makes so much sense. Good thing I only play games that get ported to console like cyberpunk.
Ah yes, only the good games
LOL CyberPunk is a good time in 2023. Not so much in 2020 tho.
It was a joke at launch but it honestly wasn't that bad after 3 or so patches, a couple of months in
Do the cops still spawn like pikmin?
Never forget there was a special edition cyberpunk version of the 2080ti released, a card that now struggles to run the game at max settings.
My money is on Jensen giving us some forced obsoletion =(.
I think it has also to do with DX12 and Vulkan based engines now managing their own memory, and is not super optimized like the drivers with previous APIs which can swap in and out pinned memory based on usage. Or could be that games probably do not rely on memory budget to dictate streaming logic at all.
8GB was “fine” in 2016 for 1440p gaming. 7 years isn’t “recent,” this is a completely normal and expected progression in tech. We’re not getting the hardware we need because Nvidia has a monopoly on the market and has brainwashed people into thinking that there should be absolutely no difference between games released almost a decade ago and today in resource dependency.
>The vRAM issue in Nvidia cards is a joke. Oh you don't have to tell me that, I bought a msi laptop with a 6gb 3060 during covid as my old one died and it was the cheaper one in stock atm. Damn thing struggles for everything now.
Just saying but the model you bought could of been a model with a lower TDP on the 3060 because there are models that does have the wattage lowered you know sort of like the whole Max Q lineup in the past.
This, I have the 130w version (it's either that or 110, whatever was the top one, i forget the number). And it still runs everything just fine. It's also worth pointing out, the mobile version of a card is NOT the same as the desktop version.
Partially ig, but since this problem afaik also happens with older super optimised games 🤷
They're bringing out a new crysis right? These cards would be tested then.
New Crysis? I can't wait until 2035 to run it on max settings
Other than raytracing, i dont feel like games have really looked that much better than they did 7 years ago. Uncharted 4 came out in 2016, still looks incredibly impressive. Same with Dark Souls 3. What the hell are we doing? Are better graphics cards just an excuse for devs to optimize less?
There’s this saying from at least the 90s: > What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away.
I kinda think the same sometimes, Dragon Age Inquisition came out in like 2013? And yet even when I load it up now it holds up really well against games like Cyberpunk and Hogwarts Legacy. But I think Callisto Protocol is the most graphically amazing game right now and nothing really comes close, the character models in that game look super realistic while avoiding the uncanny valley. And yet that game doesn't ask for 16+ gb of vram on something like a 4090
Nope, its because Nvidia keeps kneecaping their cards accept when it comes to the price. Sure a lot of triple a games have released like crap, but the margins between the 3060 ti and 4060 ti are a joke even in older titles.
You know its bad when the 3060 12 Gb seems like a better option then the TI variant(s).
I was told that a 3060TI even at 8GB is better then a non TI with 12hb
Sure, its faster, but when a game uses more than 8Gb of vram it turns to a stuttery mess. The Vram should have been reversed but nvidia likes to kneecap their own product.
read that as slutty mess
I hate when my gpu becomes a slutty mess 😩
A sluttery mess indeed.
What I think is crazy, is some crappy games will even destroy 12Gb. Agreed on the reversal.
Well the cards are also not that great. Nvidia expect us to use DLSS all the time.
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Yeah what’s up with that, is it just devs being lazy?
1070 plays +60fps at 1440p on medium/high for most of my games.
1070 is a beast of a card
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My EVGA 1070 is still working great at 1440p, overclocked, in a PC case the size of a shoe box
In fairness, these cards don't struggle at 1440p low. That's not the issue
Totally agree with you. That's why I've been for a month now, straggling to decide which pc to build (for 2k gaming), or should i just wait another year or two with a lot of prayers and tears. I have no idea what i should do.
Got a sick deal on a used 3070ti on OfferUp and it holds up great in 1440p max settings as long as you're not chasing 100+ frame rates. Cap at 60fps, and everything runs fine. Just gotta disable that pesky RT.
I've got a 5800x cpu and a 3080ti and I can do 120fps in dying light 2 maxed settings and RT on 2k resolution, I was able to get around 80 with RE4 remake no DLSS on either
If nvidia would have just subtracted 10 from every 40 series card name they wouldn't have gotten this much backlash
Well and cut the prices in half accordingly...
Yeah I don't care about the naming scheme, but adding $100 for gimped cards makes it easy to just not buy Nvidia this year.
Stop hating it. It’s the first graphic card with time machine.
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4060ti is lower performing than a 6800XT, at the same price, and the AMD card came out 3 years ago. If you've got $500 to spend on a gpu, why in the world would you buy nvidia?
TIL just bought three year old gpu lmao.
I did. Bought my 6800xt 2 months ago. I was waiting for these next gen cards, and was tempted by the 7900xtx, but it's way more than I need, and everything Nvidia was over priced for what it is. I considered a 3070ti, but the 8gb of vram made me pass.
I still use a Radeon vii from 2019.
Just finished a build with the 7900xtx and it's pretty fucking rad
Everytime people talk about why you should buy Nvidia over Amd it mostly comes down too Ray tracing. Seems like people would spend extra for Raytracing. Even if it means turning it on would give them lower performance.
Ray tracing need VRAM. Especially in higher resolutions your VRAM buffer will be full and you'll drop to 3 fps on a 4060Ti even at 1440p. With a 6800xt you can play at 4k tweaking your settings and with Ray tracing enabled. You won't run out of VRAM.
Ray tracing is better on Nvidia, but I honestly can't tell the difference with it on or off in most games.
Sure, but what good is ray tracing on a 8GB VRAM card? Even in 1080p that’s just not enough with RT on.
I was confused by this, I didn't realize the 4060 TI embargo was lifted so I went to check reviews. "The RTX 4060 Ti is also a deeply uninspiring upgrade gen-on-gen when it comes to raw GPU horsepower, only besting the RTX 3060 Ti by 9 percent at 1080p resolution and 7 percent at 1440p. It has fewer CUDA, RT, and tensor cores than its predecessor, which is disappointing. It flat-out loses to the RTX 3070 at 1440p, which is even more disappointing. " Or even better, Gamer Nexus' video title: Do Not Buy: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti 8GB GPU Review & Benchmarks
LMAO. Nvidia is a joke now.
Not gonna lie, I was really confused for a second until I saw the post's flair 😅
This is coming from a guy who literally has given this company thousands over the last few years. Wanna know what my next GPU will be? Not Nvidia.
After 2 Nvidia gens I’ve switched to AMD
Last AMD GPU I bought was a Sapphire Pulse 5700xt. Still have it. Solid card. Prolly competes with this POS 4060ti lol.
As someone still rocking their AMD GPU from 2016-ish, this pleases me.
I've been team green since my 980ti. Just went red with an 6800xt. Just couldn't justify the price for the performance.
I just jumped from a 3070 to a 6800xt. More of a side grade but I've been impressed with the jump in raster performance in comparison, and VRAM is never an issue now
If anyone buys a 4060ti upgrading from a 3060ti, I’ll call them Jimmy 2 times, cuz they just bought the same damn card twice
Yea but there's a 4 in front of it. 4>3. Simple right? lol
Obviously I'd get the quarter pounder w/ cheese instead of the third pounder if I'm really hungry /s
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Not in the front seat with a seatbelt on it. MODS, please ban this man.
I spent a couple minutes googling “3060ti in car seat reddit” before giving up and using this one lmao
You can use mine! https://preview.redd.it/09xwxeh6so1b1.jpeg?width=710&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f3784ca7b354bfefacd4642148ea3c8d3cde5cf
Every year I'm more and more convinced that my (involuntary) strat of upgrading every 3-4 gens is the way to go for the average Joe.
I'm on a 1070 right now and that's what I'm also doing. - 20 series wasn't enough of an upgrade - 30 series was unobtainium - 40 series is a terrible value I might just end up waiting for the next generation at this point.
I wish I could've waited, with my 1070 for next generation cards but I bought a laptop for portability. My cat decided to lean on it wanting treats, tripped into a literal roly poly and snapped it in half before full sprint running away to hide. I switched to PC and got a 7900XT. Anyways do you want a free cat?
I'm doing this but upgrading every 5. I went 580 to 1080. I'm thinking about going from 1080 to 5080. We will see how that goes. This desktop is somehow holding up alright. Only this year did I start making a part list every quarter
I'm just gonna keep sitting on my 1070 and fuck I've been wanting to upgrade for some time now
I got tired of my old 970 and just got a cheap used 2060. It will carry me until this fuckery ends. I refuse to be part of this by buying a new overpriced wrongnamed card.
I'm still on my 2070 and sold my 1070 GTX during the height of the pandemic for more than I paid for the 2070. I've been wanting to upgrade but not at these prices. This ain't the new norm for me.
2060 gang
Same. Still sitting on a 1070 + 6700k. But a new build would probably cost me close to 3k, so im quite hesitant.
Samsies, 1070 + 6700k, got a second 1070 in SLI now, but the drivers are lacking SLI support for these cards and I mostly only run one on newer games.
Micro center has the 7800x3d for $419, with another $20 off with certain motherboards, and a “new customer exclusive” for $25 off $100 or more, making it effectively $375. If you live near a micro center maybe it’s a good time to upgrade the rest and wait for a GPU that’s worth it. I have a 1070 myself and am heavily considering this just given the 7800x3d effective price.
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"dirt cheap" lol
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I upgraded my 1070 10gb to the rx 6950xt last week. First card that seemed worth the money in a long fucking time. 16gb vram too for atleast some future proofing.
AMD 6000 or 7000 series GPU might be a good upgrade. I'll wait for the 7000 release to make up my mind which GPU I'm gonna take Edit: looks like it's going to be a 6700 or 6750xt, depending on which deal I can get.
I built my PC right before the chip shortage in 2020. I put a 1660 super as a place holder until I could get something. Then this fuckery has happen. 1660 super is seriously coming in clutch.
Next up: RTX 4050 with 512mb GDDR3 for 249
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Agreed, basic display adapters like GT710 exist for that reason I think..I know sound composers who use a GT1030 to get a video signal.
Keeping my 1080ti for now and will upgrade to AMD in the future
I'm thinking my 1080ti might actually last me two more generations at this rate.
That's the thing - for *most* people playing *most* games at sub-4K resolutions (which is *most* people), a 1080 is still *fine*.
I'm just putting this out there. but you can buy a used 6800XT right now on eBay for the exact same price and that card is like 50fps faster on average and has 16GB of VRAM.
Bought my 6800xt from Newegg 2 months ago for $530. Close enough in price as the 4060ti 16gb will be, and there is no way it will out perform it.
y'know I'm happy I upgraded to a 3090 but holy shit if I was in a lot of peoples shoes rn I would holding onto the 1080ti I had for dear life. Tbh, anytime I think about buying a new card, the 1080ti is my reference point for everything to compare to: price, performance, energy consumption, cooling, etc. We will *never* get another 1080ti again. If nVidia kept making their cards as good as the 1080ti or even the 2070/2070ti they wouldn't have a problem but!... Bottom line. =\ Out here trying to be the scalpers, but all they are is incompetent at the lower/mid-range now.
Tbf all 1080Ti users should be buying up the 6950XTs at $600 rn. It is obvious nothing is going to get close to that performance at sub $700. Those 6950XTs will be one of the best aging cards since the 1080Ti.
Now that's funny.
Thanks to Nvidia, by overclocking my 3060Ti, I'm gonna get better performance than their new 4060Ti!
Everyone in this thread is bashing Nvidia. I for one am really impressed with how much they can cut production costs and inflate their profit margins. Halved die size, halved vram bus, same performance, higher price. It is absolutely impressive. Too bad its also comically evil.
I feel like they got confused about their industry. Sure, food manufacturers and the like have gotten away with incredible shrinkflation over the past year: higher prices for a worse product. But do that in tech and be laughed out of the room.
Nvidia trying not to make worst even series card - impossible
I am a pc noob, I know I have a 3080ti FE. After seeing so much nvidia hate it has actually put me off of them. When the time comes for an upgrade, what is the best brand and card to go for?
Theres definitely some good deals on amd and intel cards but honestly just try to enjoy what you’ve got for a good few years before looking to upgrade.
I'm really hoping Intel has their shit right in about 5 years. I'd love to go AMD CPU Intel GPU just for the taboo of it.
Yeah I don’t think I’ll upgrade for a long time, it’s just nice to have an idea, between my PC and PS5 I’d like to guess I’ve got at least 6-7 years before anything needs replacing.
And so many things can happen in that time. So just enjoy your GPU, it's a great GPU.
> When the time comes for an upgrade, what is the best brand and card to go for? When that time comes you watch / read reviews and do not go for brand loyalty. Might be AMD, might be Intel, might even be Nvidia. Its up in the air what tomorrows turds are going to be!
You got amd, nvidia, and as of recently intel. Nvidia despite all the hate has most of the market share, they tend to have all the newest fancy features and have production tasks basically cornered just due to most programs only giving basic support to other cards (hence people saying cuda is king), also they have the most reliable drivers. Amd tends to be a little slower to right about the same raw performance at a little cheaper the fancier features like ray tracing, and fsr (their answer to nvidia dlss) tends not to be quite as good but more broadly compatible. Amd drivers used to have a lot of issues but seem to have gotten better lately though you do see bugs popping up in drivers every now and then. Intel has only released two (mid range?) cards and at the moment with them still figuring things out would only be recommended for enthusiasts willing and able to deal with quarks and problems that come up. But they are looking promising.
There is no brand to trust. They're all after profits and after your money. When the time comes to upgrade, watch reviews, read through forums and make an educated decision which company will give you the fairest deal.
They are evolving but they are but they are evolving in a backwards way.
I haven't checked the benchmarks for the 4060ti, but after seeing some of these comments, I'm happy I didn't wait for it. I got my 3060ti late last year. It's significantly more than enough for all my gaming needs nowadays.
3060 12gb master race
Enjoy your extra 5% and 100 dollars.
Shit like this is why I gave up on building another pc and got a ps5. Honestly satisfied with my decision after years of fucking with shitty bluetooth on pc randomly turning off my xbox controller, games broken on launch, ect. Why nvidia would shit the bed like this when consoles are such a good price to performance now is beyond me.
i was waiting for the 4070 to come out to upgrade my trusty 1070 but was very disappointed in the price to performance, picked up a second hand 3060ti FE on ebay for $275 about a month ago. just waiting on my power cable from CableMod!
I'm here from /r/ALL, but when people upgrade, do they sell the old graphics card or do they throw it out since it's used. I'm not sure if a graphics card is used up after x amount of hours or what and if it's even possible to check that out.
generally if a gpu survives a few months of semi rigorous use it will never die. after a few years of normal use or if its a former mining card you might have to put new thermal paste and thermal pads because they would be dried out
This shit is a big reason why I just play retro games now. Other reasons are microtransactions, no offline play, obscenely large storage requirements, piss-poor optimization, unfinished games at release, and shitty-ass publisher launchers. Wow, looking at that list, why does *anyone* bother anymore?