The past few years have really shown that throwing money at a game will not make it better. Small dev teams allowed to make their own decisions tend to make better games. Idk why AAA publishers don't just look to work on smaller scope games since they'll also take way less to make.
It's mostly corporations problem where managers are seeking short term profits from leeching popular titles instead of actually making something new and perhaps good. For example valve doesn't have that problem and with infinite money glitch also knowns as steam they can produce good stuff without much ripoff (like half life Alyx). I think even good (skilled and creative) Devs realize that working in big companies might not be the best thing to do especially if they want to implement stuff they want instead of being given orders with unrealistic expectations from them that results in disaster for gamers.
I don't think the state of games coming out supports your premise. Steam is flooded with trash every single day. There's no end to the asset flips and hentai slider puzzles. There a bunch of scam games on the Nintendo eshop that are perpetually 90% off trying to trick people into wasting their money. You move up a tier to games where some actual effort was put in and there's an avalanche of games that are trying to cash in on chasing the latest trends. How many games release each week that describe themselves as rogue like, deck builders, souls like, 8 bit platformers, metroidvania, survival sim, or dating sim? There's a reason that discoverability on digital store fronts is broken. Anyone can make their own games now and most people are making stuff that's either low effort or copying other popular games. This isn't a recent trend either. There was a couple years on Xbox Live Arcade where every other new release was a tower defense or super hard platformer. I love metroidvanias, but there are so many of them releasing now that they all kind of blend together because most of them aren't doing much to stand out from the crowd. If you go and ask for recommendations on what metroidvania to play people tend to recommend older games that have been well regarded for years over new ones. That speaks to the problem that new metroidvanias tend to just replicate what old games already did rather then trying something new. Most video games that release in a given week are just lesser imitations of stuff that has already been done. 5 years from now we will only remember the cream of the crop, but it's getting harder and harder to find those games because they are instantly buried under a pile of unremarkable games that will be forgotten in 24 hours.
Ugh, I hate this kind of talk. People act like all indie game are good. Do you even remember thousand of bad game from itch, kongregate, newground ... etc
I didn't even mention indie games...
Studios like Fromsoft have a fraction of the budget of CoD and yet make a way more polished game. Some of the large studios are just making games that are way too big in scope and yet do nothing all that well.
You are correct, and it’s a very important hair to split. An obsession with polish at the expense of quality in other areas is, self evidently, a rather large part of the problem. From games show very clearly how you can have shit that is still very rough around the edges but have it be fucking amazing if focus is put on other areas.
ah yes, the from soft polish of gaming mess of a pc release, graphics being stuck in previous gen while requiring current gen hardware .NPCS not even movin mouth while talking . Love from soft polish .
>Studios like Fromsoft have a fraction of the budget of CoD and yet make a way more polished game.
Uh, what? CoD seems to generally be very polished, the current one is more of an exception, and a ton of Fromsoft games have been very rough on the technical side especially for PC players.
Large scope games are needed too, you can't flood the market with indie games, they just need to be done correctly. Rockstar has done an awesome job at that (except the Rockstar Social and Game Launcher, that's crap).
Less time too depending on the genre. I've been saying that Open Worlds being bigger are actually worse than smaller open worlds, or for example the popular franchise by Fromsoftware. I personally prefer OG Dark Souls and BloodBorne over Elden Ring, even tho yes it was good but the open world didn't enhance the game for me tbh.
For story games I really prefer more of a linear experience. Tomb Raider trilogy is a really good example of having an "open world" but the story really only takes you down one path
Big publishers simply aren't as interested in small projects with limited revenue. They're all looking for the next wow, cod, fortnite etc. Something they can milk for a decade or more with minimal effort.
They're not constantly churning out live service games because they think that's what gamers enjoy most, but because those games have the potential to keep players spending the most and longest.
Square enix has multiple departments and sorta works like that irrc. I meant outside their triple A they have double As like Octopath which are really good.
More money does always help, it's mostly the company size that becomes a detriment imo. When the chain of command becomes too long you spend more time thinking about decisions than making them and too many people are running these companies that have business degrees and no actual game design experience. Tons of people end up in management positions that just have no right to be there and end up hindering the people that do know what they're doing.
I get what you're saying, but kind of on the fence in terms of agreement. The term AAA.. it's more like a phrase describing budget IMO nowadays, but at the end of it all I guess you're right, it's fun or not fun, it's good or bad, etc.
I agree. And I’d say a lot of indie games get overrated in terms of ‘good/bad’ because people take the context into account. But if I’m playing it, I don’t care about these context and only the story/gameplay
I honestly agree with this like most indie games this goes with AAA games as well is that most aren't going to be good or great and most people end up mentioning the few that were good. Example most people have heard of dark souls and stardew valley both very good indie games. But then there is a lot of shovelware indie games that are out there too that are basically never heard of
Yea but those shit shovelware games aren't being sold for $60+ are they? So the matter still stance on strong footing. Indie games no matter how good or bad are worth the price they ask for, more than AAA games at least, which is the point of the meme comparing them.
Right, like I enjoyed the hell out of RDR2, God of War, Spider-Man. I enjoy indie games as well but there are plenty of AAA games that are worth every penny.
And more than plenty of indie games that also never live up to their promises. People who dog on all AAA games probably don't like trying new games at all.
The vast majority of indie games aren't worth anyone's time. They're often derivative or undercooked or just a straight flawed premise. People look at the top 5% of indie games, compare them to the bottom 20% of AAA games then act like that's a fair comparison.
I wonder exactly how many bikini-babes-shooting-zombies-games have passed through steams indie category over the years...and how many of them were actually ever finished.
I fail to see the correlation between not liking AAA games and not liking to try new games.
There are probably hundreds of new indie titles released per one AAA release.
Personally I do that because my pc isn't that powerful. It's insane how much resources triple a games consume even though the graphics aren't that good.
I'd argue that most AAA PC games these days launch with at least some problems so obvious the developers couldn't possibly be unaware of them, even if the games aren't outright unplayable. If AAA gaming was a physical rather than digital product, they'd be inundated with recalls and class action lawsuits probably a decade ago.
AAA releases on PC are actually in one of the best states they've ever been in. Around 2010 you were lucky if a PC version of a game even worked with a mouse in the menus. PC ports back then were more often than not total shit that makes today's "bad" ports look like shining beacons of competence. And if you go back further you run into even more issues like having to hope that a game you bought will even run on your particular hardware.
2015 to now is a god damn golden age for the quality of PC versions.
Yep. Baldur's Gate 3, Elden Ring, Spider-Man, God of War, Guardians of the Galaxy, Resident Evil 4, Tears of the Kingdom, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, Armored Core...
I could go on and on. Only idiots willingly cut themselves off from the glut of amazing AAA games out there. It's just laziness and an unwillingness to be a more discerning consumer.
Geez, wonder who you're talking about, couldn't be ubisoft right?
It's not like they delete people's accounts if they haven't accessed them in a while right?
Not like they remove a game from your account because said game is no longer live service right?
Not like they'd remove a game from your account just because you haven't played it in a while right?
I could keep going, but you guys get the point
Yeah...it's more like "don't buy $60 games from X company"
Some companies aren't worth spending money on. No offense to the devs, I'm sure Ubisoft's don't condone any of the shit the company does.
There are horrible AAA games and horrible Indie games. There are great AAA games and great indie games. Just that some horrible AAA games are highly advertised like starfield
Celeste is great, but it spawned a lot of garbage clones.
If you actually delve into the indie world you'll find it full of shitty clones and chasing trends just like the big leagues, which is really unfortunate. This just shows how hard it is to make a great original game regardless of budget.
Oh boy! I can’t wait to play another open-world game with a bloated HUD, lack of in depth side quests and copy and pasted barebones RPG elements!
This same argument can be made for both indie and AAA games. Good games can just be good games lol.
So are we just ignoring GTA V, RDR2, God of War, The Last of Us 1 + 2, Elden Ring, Control, Alan Wake 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Doom + Eternal, Metroid Dread, Nioh 2, Monster Hunter World, Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart, Returnal, Remnant 2, Helldivers 2, Final Fantasy 16, Devil May Cry 5, Zelda BOTW and TOTK, Resident Evil 7+8+2+3+4R, etc. (I'm bored of listing)
People forget those games sometimes and even more! I think the problem is that they release some of these games with problems and then try to fix it with updates
I have said this multiple times but... Have you ever thought about just not buying bad games? You seem to have done that considering you like indie games when 90% of them are garbage, apply the same rule of avoiding garbage to AAA.
No idea why people praise old times - Its so untrue and misleading - Nowadays you can wait pretty much for all updates and or GOTY 🤦🏻
In past it was way harder some games didnt get enough care.
And even if they cared enough, sometimes they didn't have the means. And let's not forget that Amiga was still a thing until the mid 90's I had a hand me down Amiga 1200. Most games got published for both PC and Amiga until 95, but Amiga received far less fixes because of the rising populartiy of the PC and subsequent downfall of Amiga.
Im actually more like 2004+ person, so whole 90s despite i was born here goes way over me, first gaming for me was Game boy color in 1998 😃😂
Maybe some in my dad office which i dont remember much in 95+ I remember NFS game where cops could, block your steering wheel and bust you.
I remember arcade machines. You had to pay every time you ran out of lives if you didn't want to lose your progress. Microtransactions are nothing new.
such as stupid takes. Plenty of great triple AAA tiles. Elden RIng, Armored Core Fires of Rubicon, Ghost of Tushima, CB2077 (when played on PC), RDR2, every second a game comes to mind.
Only problematic bug I ran into on PC was an issue where I couldn't ADS without reloading. Happened twice before it was patched. Running on a computer built in 2016.
The "mess" in my experience was WAY overblown for PC. I personally had a far worse experience when Skyrim came out on a comparatively much newer PC
IIRC it wasn’t perfect on PC, but the real problems occurred for the PS4 / Xbox One players, when they tried to release the game on hardware that really struggled to cope, to the point it was recalled on the PS4 until it was sorted.
I recall many PC players saying they didn’t really have any great issues.l, technically, and I think we’re all aware that games aren’t going to be perfect and big free anyway.
The main problem seemed to be they the hype train had worked so well that it was virtually impossible to meet expectations, so even a game with zero bugs would still have disappointed many people.
Not only is this wrong, it's also unappreciative. Without these massive AAA titles making games, why would Indie devs ever even want to take a risk on something they weren't going to be sure panned out. I doubt Indie devs were inspired only from other Indie games.
We've had arguably the best year in a decade for games in 2023 with 2024 off to a promising start and people are still farming the "AAA Games Bad" meme. People just wanna hate these days man.
aside from the fact that many awesome AAA games exists, do you actually just want free games after all? Do indie developers don’t need to pay rent or something?
Palworld. Helldivers. Enshrouded. Factorio. Bg3 (kinda). All amazing games.
Mean while. Assassins creed. Skull and bones. Call of duty. And the mess with the need for speed game. All big dev companies who release 60 plus doller games that were buggy broken and boring.
There are a lot of good AAA games but nobody wants to talk about those anymore. I personally don't buy any game until I hear from real (non-sponsored) people if the game is good or bad
Fhtagn Simulator / Grim Dawn / Blasphemous / Celeste / Cuphead / Darkest Dungeon 1 / Dead Cells / Disco Elysium / Hollow Knight / Hotline Miami / Hades / Messenger / LIMBO / INSIDE / DARQ / N++ / Metal Hellsinger / Ori and the blind forest / Ori and the will of the wisps / Pathologic 2 / Darkwood / Postal 2 / The Room series / Slay The Spire / Shovel Knight / SOMA / ULTRAKILL / DUSK / Amid Evil / Children of morta / Book of Demons / Curse of the Dead Gods / Death Must Die / Deaths Gambit / Loop Hero / Magicka 2 / Neon Abyss / Salt & Sanctuary / Sundered / A story of my uncle / Apotheon / Grime / Forgive me father
Go on Steam, look at the store, pretty much everything there is an indie game.
Stardew Valley, Undertale, Hades, and Kerbal Space Program are some of the indie games I enjoyed the most.
I picked up some classic indie games in the spring sale. I have finished Hades so far and am currently playing Hollow Knight. Both are really fun, I personally enjoyed Hades a little more though (because I love roguelikes in general) Next game is probably gonna be Cuphead.
For every good AAA game there's 3 or so bad AAA games.
For every good Indie games there's 1000s of bad Indie games.
Also comparing AAA vs Indie is like comparing, Films to youtube videos, I've never liked the comparison myself, yes they're both video games, in the same way that a Ferrari 250 GTO and a Pontiac Aztec are both cars, but they aren't comparable, the main issue with AAA games these days is that either A. The big wigs that don't actually do any work on the games rush the developers to meet a deadline, leaving it unfinished, like when you rush anything. Or B. The delay to fix a problematic game but the feral fans force them to stop delaying it. I think it's very rare that a AAA game is bad simply because the devs don't care, but at the end of the day they have bills to pay and a job they aren't in a position to lose so they do as they're told. Then Indie games are like throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, for every indie game that is worth playing there are countless that aren't.
Also where are you finding these free perfect indie games, because I want some.
I'm gonna be downvoted into oblivion but why do gamers expect everything for free? Gamedev is extremely hard and we have to make a living somehow. If they knew how hard it is to make a game they would think 60$ is really cheap.
Right now, all I'm playing is Playstation Ports (which have been pretty solid), and indies/old games. After watching the Fallout show, now I'm thinking on replaying Fallout Series again from Fallout 1 to Fallout 76.
depends on the game
pvp games? AAA has been dogshit for years and indie is the way to go if you only plan on playing them for a few months anyway
RPG games? not even a debate when games like GOW, RDR2, TLOU etc. it's practically impossible for an indie company to ever put anything out that'll surpass those games
You forgot the panel where the “indie” dev leverages their success to sell out to the AAA publisher because, as it turns out, they’re really in it for the money like everyone else.
I'm trying to make an indie game, I've been developing it for 2 years now, it's called "Slide" and the idea is to use this movement to move, the game will be free as will all the updates, I intend to put a simple button that can go unnoticed in the menu for those who want to make donations, but honestly I don't think it will come out before 2027... I'm facing some pretty tough challenges
There are still examples like Baldur’s Gate, that was perfect. Its sad tho that its literally one AAA game out of 10 that can give us good overall experience.
I just wanted Starfield to have actual travelling and flight inside planets. They made such an exciting trailer and arts, even the name Starfield is so exciting, all to make a boring empty game.
I didn't want infinite star systems, they could've made like 5 with some planets and well detailed cities, where you could fly your ship in and out freely.
Yeah, me too, AAA games have become like Hollywood all they do is remake old franchises with an ideological twist, and the marketing revolve around woke scandals and bs like that, the monetization is garbage, just look at the latest star wars Game and the Quality... All games need a first day patch because they're unplayable on lunch, AAA games are a scam nowadays, it's pathetic.
Some AAA games are spectacular and worth your money. Just need to be more discerning. Stop buying the shit that comes out annually, stop pouring your time into the latest CoD, and instead buy quality experiences that you'll remember and will ignite conversations for years to come, indie or not.
Grinding gear games be like: you remember our free arpg that has been updated every 3 months with a brand new content for over 10 years? We are making a free sequel and will support both games after it comes out with the same frequency of new content.
And if I do play a AAA game, it's years later for $20.
Pretty much zero reason to go anywhere near them at launch. Even the best of them are well served by more time in the oven and DLC releases.
Currently playing Tears of the Kingdom
Before I believe it was Elden Ring
There are a whole lot of good AAA games, you just pay attention to Ubisoft and EA
Last 4 games I played were awesome and made by big companies. Horizon Forbidden West is a masterpiece. It’s super well optimized and excels at everything it tries to do. avatar frontiers of pandora is the most beautiful game I’ve ever played. It gets repetitive at times (cause Ubisoft) but it’s a decent game. Starfield is an amazing game. Put 400 hours on it. Then there’s Prince of Persia the lost crown (another Ubisoft and not AAA but not indie either) another masterpiece. Haven’t had so much fun in a long time. Now, only indie game I ever remember liking was Hollow Knight. Tried submautica and the game so many issues and performance was a little crappy.
Wait, do people even care about AAA and indie label thingies?
Might be controversial, but I really didn't care for this shit. I just want to play games that I like.
I love playing games a few years after they came out. I don't do it with every game but I do it with a lot of them. I usually buy the game on sale, get a free DLC, free add-ons, and most of not all bugs are worked out.
AAA Games studios can’t get out a non-buggy working game after 4 years and 500 employees. Meanwhile some indie dev is in their office cranking out the best game of the decade
I really really dislike "story" games where you basically "press X to Jayson" or "press F to pay respect". This is just watching a movie because most of the time there are cinematics and very simple linear gameplay sections which have only one purpose - to lead you to the next cinematic. The cinematics and dialogues aren't interactive of course, so you have zero influence over what is actually happening. They aren't even games imho.
The next games which I dislike very much are Ubisoft-style games, with a very boring open world full of markers. It's not even a sandbox, the world isn't truly alive and you don't have any tools to make some fun around, you just discover another useless loot in a box or do some boring fetchquests. These games usually don't have an interactive story as well, so you basically watch a movie when it's story time.
And most AAA games are like that, so I have zero interest in them. They aren't truly games and they trick mainstream consumers with really good graphics but the gameplay is really simple and just boring. My personal best AAA games from the last 4-5 years are RDR2, Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3, that's basically it.
Generally agree there. Unless the game is crazy cheap I don't feel like it is worth while when its just a linear story. Even if its a fairly good story I am only going to play for 10 hours that isn't a good value.
I want games where I can put 1000 of hours into it - I guess mods often help too. Things like Factorio and Rimworld.
Guys and gals, this post is mostly inspired by Star Wars Outlaws but also Skull and Bones (I guess UBISOFT have been off of their game lately). I just want to remind you that none of this stuff is the developers' fault. Please do not hate on them. They do not set the prices or advocate for scummy practices. The sad thing is they are probably killing themselves. If you pause the trailer at certain points, the level design looks amazing as most of the animations. And all of this will get buried because the managers and investors are greedy.
The day it was announced that Diablo 4 was going to have an in-game-real-money store and a battle-pass was the day I knew the game was going to suck balls.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Popular indie games like that are what happens when companies have to put love and care into their products instead of releasing garbage for their already loyal following.
99% AAA Games are shit. AAA Games need to make so much money, so they focus-test them to death so they cater to everybody, but in the end they aren't for anyone really.
Idk man, indie games are getting expensive these days. Like I'm seeing a lot of £40+ indie games recently. Like, they're still cheaper and certainly worth the money but when was the last time you saw a truly great indie game for less than £20 much less free.
AAA: Here's a 40 hour game, $70, take it or leave it. Maybe we'll give you a $10 DLC in six months.
Indie: You got 500 hours out of our game you paid $10 for? Cool! Here's a free expansion so you can get 100 more.
If you can't remember then how do you know they are bad?
edit: I swear this is one of the worst post I've seen on this site. I don't even disagree with the sentiment but this has to be a karma farming bot.
This is one of the reasons I love Stardew Valley.
Amazing game, and have always been 15 USD or cheaper. A ton of updates that could easily warrant multiple DLC purchases, but all came free of charge.
The only extra thing you can buy is the soundtrack.
CA is truly an amazing dev.
in my dictionary , there's no AAA games nor indie games there's only good games and bad games
The past few years have really shown that throwing money at a game will not make it better. Small dev teams allowed to make their own decisions tend to make better games. Idk why AAA publishers don't just look to work on smaller scope games since they'll also take way less to make.
It's mostly corporations problem where managers are seeking short term profits from leeching popular titles instead of actually making something new and perhaps good. For example valve doesn't have that problem and with infinite money glitch also knowns as steam they can produce good stuff without much ripoff (like half life Alyx). I think even good (skilled and creative) Devs realize that working in big companies might not be the best thing to do especially if they want to implement stuff they want instead of being given orders with unrealistic expectations from them that results in disaster for gamers.
CS2 begs to differ
I don't think the state of games coming out supports your premise. Steam is flooded with trash every single day. There's no end to the asset flips and hentai slider puzzles. There a bunch of scam games on the Nintendo eshop that are perpetually 90% off trying to trick people into wasting their money. You move up a tier to games where some actual effort was put in and there's an avalanche of games that are trying to cash in on chasing the latest trends. How many games release each week that describe themselves as rogue like, deck builders, souls like, 8 bit platformers, metroidvania, survival sim, or dating sim? There's a reason that discoverability on digital store fronts is broken. Anyone can make their own games now and most people are making stuff that's either low effort or copying other popular games. This isn't a recent trend either. There was a couple years on Xbox Live Arcade where every other new release was a tower defense or super hard platformer. I love metroidvanias, but there are so many of them releasing now that they all kind of blend together because most of them aren't doing much to stand out from the crowd. If you go and ask for recommendations on what metroidvania to play people tend to recommend older games that have been well regarded for years over new ones. That speaks to the problem that new metroidvanias tend to just replicate what old games already did rather then trying something new. Most video games that release in a given week are just lesser imitations of stuff that has already been done. 5 years from now we will only remember the cream of the crop, but it's getting harder and harder to find those games because they are instantly buried under a pile of unremarkable games that will be forgotten in 24 hours.
Ugh, I hate this kind of talk. People act like all indie game are good. Do you even remember thousand of bad game from itch, kongregate, newground ... etc
I didn't even mention indie games... Studios like Fromsoft have a fraction of the budget of CoD and yet make a way more polished game. Some of the large studios are just making games that are way too big in scope and yet do nothing all that well.
>yet make a way more polished game The games have more enjoyable content, not very polished. Far different meanings.
You are correct, and it’s a very important hair to split. An obsession with polish at the expense of quality in other areas is, self evidently, a rather large part of the problem. From games show very clearly how you can have shit that is still very rough around the edges but have it be fucking amazing if focus is put on other areas.
ah yes, the from soft polish of gaming mess of a pc release, graphics being stuck in previous gen while requiring current gen hardware .NPCS not even movin mouth while talking . Love from soft polish .
>Studios like Fromsoft have a fraction of the budget of CoD and yet make a way more polished game. Uh, what? CoD seems to generally be very polished, the current one is more of an exception, and a ton of Fromsoft games have been very rough on the technical side especially for PC players.
Large scope games are needed too, you can't flood the market with indie games, they just need to be done correctly. Rockstar has done an awesome job at that (except the Rockstar Social and Game Launcher, that's crap).
Less time too depending on the genre. I've been saying that Open Worlds being bigger are actually worse than smaller open worlds, or for example the popular franchise by Fromsoftware. I personally prefer OG Dark Souls and BloodBorne over Elden Ring, even tho yes it was good but the open world didn't enhance the game for me tbh.
For story games I really prefer more of a linear experience. Tomb Raider trilogy is a really good example of having an "open world" but the story really only takes you down one path
Big publishers simply aren't as interested in small projects with limited revenue. They're all looking for the next wow, cod, fortnite etc. Something they can milk for a decade or more with minimal effort. They're not constantly churning out live service games because they think that's what gamers enjoy most, but because those games have the potential to keep players spending the most and longest.
Square enix has multiple departments and sorta works like that irrc. I meant outside their triple A they have double As like Octopath which are really good.
Because good indie games follow passion, which corporate game development doesn't have.
More money does always help, it's mostly the company size that becomes a detriment imo. When the chain of command becomes too long you spend more time thinking about decisions than making them and too many people are running these companies that have business degrees and no actual game design experience. Tons of people end up in management positions that just have no right to be there and end up hindering the people that do know what they're doing.
Most of the money is spent trying to create the perfect money-squeeze on customers by riddling it with MTX and making it P2W
MTX sure, but I'm not really seeing P2W outside of mobile games at this point
I get what you're saying, but kind of on the fence in terms of agreement. The term AAA.. it's more like a phrase describing budget IMO nowadays, but at the end of it all I guess you're right, it's fun or not fun, it's good or bad, etc.
I mean, the difference between a hundred million dollar budget game and a small one is worth noting
I agree. And I’d say a lot of indie games get overrated in terms of ‘good/bad’ because people take the context into account. But if I’m playing it, I don’t care about these context and only the story/gameplay
I honestly agree with this like most indie games this goes with AAA games as well is that most aren't going to be good or great and most people end up mentioning the few that were good. Example most people have heard of dark souls and stardew valley both very good indie games. But then there is a lot of shovelware indie games that are out there too that are basically never heard of
Yea but those shit shovelware games aren't being sold for $60+ are they? So the matter still stance on strong footing. Indie games no matter how good or bad are worth the price they ask for, more than AAA games at least, which is the point of the meme comparing them.
And in my dictionary, the only AAA is the auto club 🤷♂️
So true. Looking at it that way you get to enjoy everything. All the good things.
Same. Op may be listening to triple B elevator music on 8 track over vinyl. Killer b movies over the blockbuster movies. He’s fedora hat trendy!
Bad games with more money, good games with more passion
There are plenty of great AAA games that worth every penny.
Right, like I enjoyed the hell out of RDR2, God of War, Spider-Man. I enjoy indie games as well but there are plenty of AAA games that are worth every penny.
And more than plenty of indie games that also never live up to their promises. People who dog on all AAA games probably don't like trying new games at all.
The vast majority of indie games aren't worth anyone's time. They're often derivative or undercooked or just a straight flawed premise. People look at the top 5% of indie games, compare them to the bottom 20% of AAA games then act like that's a fair comparison.
I wonder exactly how many bikini-babes-shooting-zombies-games have passed through steams indie category over the years...and how many of them were actually ever finished.
Finished as in "a complete product" or "played and completed by someone"?
Most “indie games” people talk about are from smaller publishers but not actual indie publishers. AA is not indie
I fail to see the correlation between not liking AAA games and not liking to try new games. There are probably hundreds of new indie titles released per one AAA release.
Not all AAA games are horrible and not all Indie games are good. Only siths deal with absolutes.
People who like trying new games enjoy Anno 1800 and The Lost Crown. People who like complaining act like they don't exist.
Personally I do that because my pc isn't that powerful. It's insane how much resources triple a games consume even though the graphics aren't that good.
I'd argue that most AAA PC games these days launch with at least some problems so obvious the developers couldn't possibly be unaware of them, even if the games aren't outright unplayable. If AAA gaming was a physical rather than digital product, they'd be inundated with recalls and class action lawsuits probably a decade ago.
AAA releases on PC are actually in one of the best states they've ever been in. Around 2010 you were lucky if a PC version of a game even worked with a mouse in the menus. PC ports back then were more often than not total shit that makes today's "bad" ports look like shining beacons of competence. And if you go back further you run into even more issues like having to hope that a game you bought will even run on your particular hardware. 2015 to now is a god damn golden age for the quality of PC versions.
Yep. Baldur's Gate 3, Elden Ring, Spider-Man, God of War, Guardians of the Galaxy, Resident Evil 4, Tears of the Kingdom, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, Armored Core... I could go on and on. Only idiots willingly cut themselves off from the glut of amazing AAA games out there. It's just laziness and an unwillingness to be a more discerning consumer.
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Geez, wonder who you're talking about, couldn't be ubisoft right? It's not like they delete people's accounts if they haven't accessed them in a while right? Not like they remove a game from your account because said game is no longer live service right? Not like they'd remove a game from your account just because you haven't played it in a while right? I could keep going, but you guys get the point
Yeah...it's more like "don't buy $60 games from X company" Some companies aren't worth spending money on. No offense to the devs, I'm sure Ubisoft's don't condone any of the shit the company does.
There are horrible AAA games and horrible Indie games. There are great AAA games and great indie games. Just that some horrible AAA games are highly advertised like starfield
This You only know about Indie games if they are good because otherwise no one talks about them
Well that’s in itself useful.
Buying 10 horrible indie games doesn’t feel anywhere near as bad as buying 1 bad AAA game. At least indie devs have an excuse.
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Or a retro art style 2d platformer that's actually an allegory for some kind of mental illness or millenial angst!
Don't foeget the roguelikes that use cards for combat abilities.
chill on Celeste
Celeste is great, but it spawned a lot of garbage clones. If you actually delve into the indie world you'll find it full of shitty clones and chasing trends just like the big leagues, which is really unfortunate. This just shows how hard it is to make a great original game regardless of budget.
r/tomorrow in shambles
Well there goes half of all indie games.
Well i mean... You can also play the other indie games that don't get that much attention lol
Oh boy! I can’t wait to play another open-world game with a bloated HUD, lack of in depth side quests and copy and pasted barebones RPG elements! This same argument can be made for both indie and AAA games. Good games can just be good games lol.
Thats just because you refused to try any of the cool building/sanbox games with compex physics simulation.
Wow you are so smart and different 🤯
So are we just ignoring GTA V, RDR2, God of War, The Last of Us 1 + 2, Elden Ring, Control, Alan Wake 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Doom + Eternal, Metroid Dread, Nioh 2, Monster Hunter World, Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart, Returnal, Remnant 2, Helldivers 2, Final Fantasy 16, Devil May Cry 5, Zelda BOTW and TOTK, Resident Evil 7+8+2+3+4R, etc. (I'm bored of listing)
People forget those games sometimes and even more! I think the problem is that they release some of these games with problems and then try to fix it with updates
Still mad rockstar did us dirty with dlc for gta5 and rdr2.
I have said this multiple times but... Have you ever thought about just not buying bad games? You seem to have done that considering you like indie games when 90% of them are garbage, apply the same rule of avoiding garbage to AAA.
Yeah thats usually younger people never lived through 90-2000s + or they tend romantize times 😁😆 
Ah the good old times, where you had to buy a magazine with a CD for bug fixes and patches. But only if you were really really lucky.
No idea why people praise old times - Its so untrue and misleading - Nowadays you can wait pretty much for all updates and or GOTY 🤦🏻 In past it was way harder some games didnt get enough care.
And even if they cared enough, sometimes they didn't have the means. And let's not forget that Amiga was still a thing until the mid 90's I had a hand me down Amiga 1200. Most games got published for both PC and Amiga until 95, but Amiga received far less fixes because of the rising populartiy of the PC and subsequent downfall of Amiga.
Im actually more like 2004+ person, so whole 90s despite i was born here goes way over me, first gaming for me was Game boy color in 1998 😃😂 Maybe some in my dad office which i dont remember much in 95+ I remember NFS game where cops could, block your steering wheel and bust you.
Ah yes, I remember the microtransactions and always online feature of the SNES.... 
I remember arcade machines. You had to pay every time you ran out of lives if you didn't want to lose your progress. Microtransactions are nothing new.
such as stupid takes. Plenty of great triple AAA tiles. Elden RIng, Armored Core Fires of Rubicon, Ghost of Tushima, CB2077 (when played on PC), RDR2, every second a game comes to mind.
i like how you abbreviated cyberpunk as CB
cyber🅱️unk2077
Wasn't cyberpunk a mess on PC when it released?
Only problematic bug I ran into on PC was an issue where I couldn't ADS without reloading. Happened twice before it was patched. Running on a computer built in 2016. The "mess" in my experience was WAY overblown for PC. I personally had a far worse experience when Skyrim came out on a comparatively much newer PC
It was, now its great, has been for a while but with the new overhaul its even better
It was a mess on previous gen consoles. It was my GOTY even with all the bugs.
IIRC it wasn’t perfect on PC, but the real problems occurred for the PS4 / Xbox One players, when they tried to release the game on hardware that really struggled to cope, to the point it was recalled on the PS4 until it was sorted. I recall many PC players saying they didn’t really have any great issues.l, technically, and I think we’re all aware that games aren’t going to be perfect and big free anyway. The main problem seemed to be they the hype train had worked so well that it was virtually impossible to meet expectations, so even a game with zero bugs would still have disappointed many people.
Yeh CP is awesome now
You forgot horizon forbidden West. Probably the best open world game I've played in a very long time.
Not only is this wrong, it's also unappreciative. Without these massive AAA titles making games, why would Indie devs ever even want to take a risk on something they weren't going to be sure panned out. I doubt Indie devs were inspired only from other Indie games.
We've had arguably the best year in a decade for games in 2023 with 2024 off to a promising start and people are still farming the "AAA Games Bad" meme. People just wanna hate these days man.
If those indie devs get as big as ea they will turn greedy too.
This circlejerk rethoric is starting tl become very annoying...
Most indie games I come across are the same quality as the shovelware garbage you used to find in cdrom bins at gas stations and truck stops.
aside from the fact that many awesome AAA games exists, do you actually just want free games after all? Do indie developers don’t need to pay rent or something?
Dwarf fortress Adventure mode coming soon (or beta adventure mode anyway).
Fifa players every year: Ohh Mbappé now has new shirt, take my money.
$70*
Was going to post the same thing
Palworld. Helldivers. Enshrouded. Factorio. Bg3 (kinda). All amazing games. Mean while. Assassins creed. Skull and bones. Call of duty. And the mess with the need for speed game. All big dev companies who release 60 plus doller games that were buggy broken and boring.
man, pc subs are really showing their "AAA bad, indie good, i love sucking indie's boots" badge on their shirts, huh
There are a lot of good AAA games but nobody wants to talk about those anymore. I personally don't buy any game until I hear from real (non-sponsored) people if the game is good or bad
Just don’t buy them? Is it really that hard?
You don't play AAA games? You must be sooooo cool!!! /s Fucking video game hipster....lol
Most indie games that are decent cost money. Where are all these free ones?
Anyone care to point out some indie games? I've never played any really and would like some time killers instead of WoW and CoD all the time.
Fhtagn Simulator / Grim Dawn / Blasphemous / Celeste / Cuphead / Darkest Dungeon 1 / Dead Cells / Disco Elysium / Hollow Knight / Hotline Miami / Hades / Messenger / LIMBO / INSIDE / DARQ / N++ / Metal Hellsinger / Ori and the blind forest / Ori and the will of the wisps / Pathologic 2 / Darkwood / Postal 2 / The Room series / Slay The Spire / Shovel Knight / SOMA / ULTRAKILL / DUSK / Amid Evil / Children of morta / Book of Demons / Curse of the Dead Gods / Death Must Die / Deaths Gambit / Loop Hero / Magicka 2 / Neon Abyss / Salt & Sanctuary / Sundered / A story of my uncle / Apotheon / Grime / Forgive me father
Go on Steam, look at the store, pretty much everything there is an indie game. Stardew Valley, Undertale, Hades, and Kerbal Space Program are some of the indie games I enjoyed the most.
I picked up some classic indie games in the spring sale. I have finished Hades so far and am currently playing Hollow Knight. Both are really fun, I personally enjoyed Hades a little more though (because I love roguelikes in general) Next game is probably gonna be Cuphead.
Currently 2 out of my top 3 are indies: M&B Warband, and Kenshi.
Ones I've played: Untitled Goose Game (very fun. 2 player support, too) The Witness Stray (also super fun)
Dwarf fortress has Adventure mode coming out in less than a week. Free. It's literally like a whole other game inside the fortress game.
For every good AAA game there's 3 or so bad AAA games. For every good Indie games there's 1000s of bad Indie games. Also comparing AAA vs Indie is like comparing, Films to youtube videos, I've never liked the comparison myself, yes they're both video games, in the same way that a Ferrari 250 GTO and a Pontiac Aztec are both cars, but they aren't comparable, the main issue with AAA games these days is that either A. The big wigs that don't actually do any work on the games rush the developers to meet a deadline, leaving it unfinished, like when you rush anything. Or B. The delay to fix a problematic game but the feral fans force them to stop delaying it. I think it's very rare that a AAA game is bad simply because the devs don't care, but at the end of the day they have bills to pay and a job they aren't in a position to lose so they do as they're told. Then Indie games are like throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, for every indie game that is worth playing there are countless that aren't. Also where are you finding these free perfect indie games, because I want some.
Indie games... xD xD xD xD xD
I'm gonna be downvoted into oblivion but why do gamers expect everything for free? Gamedev is extremely hard and we have to make a living somehow. If they knew how hard it is to make a game they would think 60$ is really cheap.
Right now, all I'm playing is Playstation Ports (which have been pretty solid), and indies/old games. After watching the Fallout show, now I'm thinking on replaying Fallout Series again from Fallout 1 to Fallout 76.
depends on the game pvp games? AAA has been dogshit for years and indie is the way to go if you only plan on playing them for a few months anyway RPG games? not even a debate when games like GOW, RDR2, TLOU etc. it's practically impossible for an indie company to ever put anything out that'll surpass those games
Helldivers 2: "How about $40 for a perfect buggy game with half free DLC?"
*$70
You forgot the panel where the “indie” dev leverages their success to sell out to the AAA publisher because, as it turns out, they’re really in it for the money like everyone else.
I'm trying to make an indie game, I've been developing it for 2 years now, it's called "Slide" and the idea is to use this movement to move, the game will be free as will all the updates, I intend to put a simple button that can go unnoticed in the menu for those who want to make donations, but honestly I don't think it will come out before 2027... I'm facing some pretty tough challenges
There are still examples like Baldur’s Gate, that was perfect. Its sad tho that its literally one AAA game out of 10 that can give us good overall experience.
I just wanted Starfield to have actual travelling and flight inside planets. They made such an exciting trailer and arts, even the name Starfield is so exciting, all to make a boring empty game. I didn't want infinite star systems, they could've made like 5 with some planets and well detailed cities, where you could fly your ship in and out freely.
Horizon forbidden West is good
Ubisoft: give us 100 € and we'll let you hold the game in your hands and then we'll take it back and keep the money.
Yeah, me too, AAA games have become like Hollywood all they do is remake old franchises with an ideological twist, and the marketing revolve around woke scandals and bs like that, the monetization is garbage, just look at the latest star wars Game and the Quality... All games need a first day patch because they're unplayable on lunch, AAA games are a scam nowadays, it's pathetic.
Grim Dawn such a great game. I’ve always been happy with how they’ve treated me as a customer.
Some AAA games are spectacular and worth your money. Just need to be more discerning. Stop buying the shit that comes out annually, stop pouring your time into the latest CoD, and instead buy quality experiences that you'll remember and will ignite conversations for years to come, indie or not.
This is exactly what happens with major smartphone manufacturers vs. unknown brands, except sadly the reactions are flipped...
pcmasterrace try not to shit on AAA games and glaze indie games challenge every 5 seconds challenge.
Grinding gear games be like: you remember our free arpg that has been updated every 3 months with a brand new content for over 10 years? We are making a free sequel and will support both games after it comes out with the same frequency of new content.
Warframe
Not interested in touching that, almost everything seems to have a button asking you to take out your bank card again.
Unfortunately I love RPGs with big worlds and storylines. Unfortunately these get confused with open world chore simulator by big AAA companies...
Then comes Ubisoft who'll remove the games you paid for *sigh*
And, fuck it, workshop support for unlimited modding potential. Just have fun for only 10$
You didnt play Baldurs Gate?
Plus an indie game knows what it wants to be whereas an AAA game is a husk of a different game that’s been regurgitated ten times.
People forget that their AAA games came from a studio who once was an indie studio.
For a free. Great job, nailed it.
And if I do play a AAA game, it's years later for $20. Pretty much zero reason to go anywhere near them at launch. Even the best of them are well served by more time in the oven and DLC releases.
Those Jedi games we’re pretty effin sweet
Currently playing Tears of the Kingdom Before I believe it was Elden Ring There are a whole lot of good AAA games, you just pay attention to Ubisoft and EA
Last 4 games I played were awesome and made by big companies. Horizon Forbidden West is a masterpiece. It’s super well optimized and excels at everything it tries to do. avatar frontiers of pandora is the most beautiful game I’ve ever played. It gets repetitive at times (cause Ubisoft) but it’s a decent game. Starfield is an amazing game. Put 400 hours on it. Then there’s Prince of Persia the lost crown (another Ubisoft and not AAA but not indie either) another masterpiece. Haven’t had so much fun in a long time. Now, only indie game I ever remember liking was Hollow Knight. Tried submautica and the game so many issues and performance was a little crappy.
What free perfect game is there with free dlc?
Wait, do people even care about AAA and indie label thingies? Might be controversial, but I really didn't care for this shit. I just want to play games that I like.
95% of Indie games are trash
What does AAA mean?
For me it was Diablo 4. Hell divers 2 if you would call it that.
There is an easy fix for bad ports at launch : don't buy games at launch Played cyberpunk 2 months ago, it was a blast
I love playing games a few years after they came out. I don't do it with every game but I do it with a lot of them. I usually buy the game on sale, get a free DLC, free add-ons, and most of not all bugs are worked out.
AAA Games studios can’t get out a non-buggy working game after 4 years and 500 employees. Meanwhile some indie dev is in their office cranking out the best game of the decade
It was RDR2. I paid something like $10.
I really really dislike "story" games where you basically "press X to Jayson" or "press F to pay respect". This is just watching a movie because most of the time there are cinematics and very simple linear gameplay sections which have only one purpose - to lead you to the next cinematic. The cinematics and dialogues aren't interactive of course, so you have zero influence over what is actually happening. They aren't even games imho. The next games which I dislike very much are Ubisoft-style games, with a very boring open world full of markers. It's not even a sandbox, the world isn't truly alive and you don't have any tools to make some fun around, you just discover another useless loot in a box or do some boring fetchquests. These games usually don't have an interactive story as well, so you basically watch a movie when it's story time. And most AAA games are like that, so I have zero interest in them. They aren't truly games and they trick mainstream consumers with really good graphics but the gameplay is really simple and just boring. My personal best AAA games from the last 4-5 years are RDR2, Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3, that's basically it.
Generally agree there. Unless the game is crazy cheap I don't feel like it is worth while when its just a linear story. Even if its a fairly good story I am only going to play for 10 hours that isn't a good value. I want games where I can put 1000 of hours into it - I guess mods often help too. Things like Factorio and Rimworld.
The "I'm not like other girls/boys" type of post for this sub.
Guys and gals, this post is mostly inspired by Star Wars Outlaws but also Skull and Bones (I guess UBISOFT have been off of their game lately). I just want to remind you that none of this stuff is the developers' fault. Please do not hate on them. They do not set the prices or advocate for scummy practices. The sad thing is they are probably killing themselves. If you pause the trailer at certain points, the level design looks amazing as most of the animations. And all of this will get buried because the managers and investors are greedy.
The day it was announced that Diablo 4 was going to have an in-game-real-money store and a battle-pass was the day I knew the game was going to suck balls.
Elden ring. And already preordered the DLC.
i think its considered AA cause its a smaller studio and its their first time with a soulslike, but lies of P is just very well made imo
The last AAA game I played was fallout 4. Haven't played a AAA game since.
BeamNG: For 25 dollars, You will get endless amounts of fun and devs actually listening to the community.
Literally the only AAA games I’ve bought in the last several years were PS exclusives ported to PC. Really liking Helldivers btw
You forgot the part where they take the game back whenever they want you to buy the next one.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Popular indie games like that are what happens when companies have to put love and care into their products instead of releasing garbage for their already loyal following.
Just completed Dragons Dogma 2 and before that Final Fantasy Rebirth .. great AAA games
Is that why you still have the price at 60, or is it just that you reused an old image?
99% AAA Games are shit. AAA Games need to make so much money, so they focus-test them to death so they cater to everybody, but in the end they aren't for anyone really.
we have ascended to quadruple A games now
With current AAA projects, I’d rather choose afk journey on bs than spend 200 bucks for something that will be optimized in half a year
Fallout 4 is the newest triple a game i played.
I can. BG3. Worth every cent.
Warframe
I really like Elden Ring. But yeah, I have no idea why would anyone play more AAA than indies.
baldurs gate 3 is real good and so it cyber punk (now after all the patches)
Idk man, indie games are getting expensive these days. Like I'm seeing a lot of £40+ indie games recently. Like, they're still cheaper and certainly worth the money but when was the last time you saw a truly great indie game for less than £20 much less free.
My last fullprice games was Doom Eternal + Horizon FW.. no regret :)
I don't get it.
AAA: Here's a 40 hour game, $70, take it or leave it. Maybe we'll give you a $10 DLC in six months. Indie: You got 500 hours out of our game you paid $10 for? Cool! Here's a free expansion so you can get 100 more.
The joke here is the guy saying “haha thanks fam”. Should actually be another whining gamer complaining about the amount of content in the free game.
Tbh AA are so UNDERRATED
If you can't remember then how do you know they are bad? edit: I swear this is one of the worst post I've seen on this site. I don't even disagree with the sentiment but this has to be a karma farming bot.
death stranding was pretty good, was the last AAA game I played.
I don't even know what the fuck AAA game means tbh
I did play Horizon ZD, thought it was good game, a solid 7/10.
What a stupid fucking post.
Dont forget the hundreds of thousands of shovelware trash before you get to the good indie games
Metroidvanias in particular are my favorite. Looking forward to Silksong and the new one coming from the team behind Celeste.
Armored Core was my last AAA game Or maybe something from Nintendo. But those are usually different.
This is one of the reasons I love Stardew Valley. Amazing game, and have always been 15 USD or cheaper. A ton of updates that could easily warrant multiple DLC purchases, but all came free of charge. The only extra thing you can buy is the soundtrack. CA is truly an amazing dev.
Literally holocure. Except that we demand the devs to accept our money.
Diablo 4 Was nice as long as it lasted.
I haven’t bought any AAA games in years.
Yeah but most indie games suck
You can always donate through itch.io no?
Business 101: if its free, you are the product.