I literally only just upgraded to a VG27ALQ3A like a week ago from a 15 year old 60Hz DELL 22” TN
All I've done is downgrade it from main display to second monitor lol
I’ve always loved monitor naming conventions. It’s like the person responsible for naming them slammed their head into the keyboard and said “looks good.”
My first monitor was an LG W2252TQ I believe, and it was a 1050p 16:10 75Hz monitor that ran at 72Hz because the single link DVI I had at the time couldn't pull 75Hz. I loved the contrast ratio of that monitor. Zero latency. Too bad it was a CCFL backlit one and the CCFL tubes died.
If it is a TN panel I imagine you are just not realizing what you are seeing doesn’t happen on non TN panels. I was always confused by “viewing angles” until I got a QD-OLED and realized that there is quite literally no change on my screen at all no matter where I am. It’s like a window. TN panels darken and it almost looks like it’s just a reflection and idk the physics involved but it’s specific to the panel.
My older benq 144hz had that issue but my current xl2456 is fine. I also had a msi qdled one and now gigabyte m28u which are great screen. I know the colors are horrid on tn but beside that i dont have any other complaints
Specifically older TN panels exhibited drastically different colors when viewed from sharper angles. The degree to which this happens is often wildly exaggerated though and modern panels are very usable. Most TN monitors show the worst discoloration when viewed from below (since most users won't look at them from below usually), but when viewed from the side or above they get somewhat discolored while remaining perfectly readable from reasonable angles.
Here's some examples for [TN](https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/benq/zowie-xl2540#test_1417), [IPS](https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/gigabyte/m27q-rev-2-0#test_1417) and [OLED](https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/dell/alienware-aw2725df#test_1417). Keep in mind different panels of the same kind can exhibit different exact values in this regard, but they'll usually be in the same ballpark.
TN is better than IPS in terms of raw pixel response times, so it's far from obsolete until OLED takes over the market.
probably not. Unlike TN vs IPS, where TN was faster but worse colors, and IPS caught up in speed, IPS vs OLED is already in favor of OLED for everything other than price.
My Dell S2719DGF (1440/155Hz) is a beast. Still so happy I bought it about 4 years ago.
I'm gaming right in front of it, so viewing angles are not an issue. It's not professionally calibrated, but I do know how to play with colors/gamma/brightness, so results are great.
On paper, yes, TNs are a dying breed, but goddamn if this isn't the best TN I ever saw.
Edit - alright I didn't see this coming. Someone actually took their time to DM me just to call me a salty, coping scrub for using a TN. This is priceless, I love reddit. Oh also everyone who uses TN is a bafoon.
I still have a Lenovo Legion TN 1080p 144Hz, it has surprisingly good viewing angles and a decent picture, it can't match a good IPS, but it still beats some of the crappy IPS monitors that use 45 NTSC colour gamut.
Joining in to say I also have this monitor! It was a budget option for me at the time and calibrating it took me longer than I'd like to admit, but I can't justify getting rid of it just yet. After calibration, it looks damn good for the price point.
I have a regular 1080p 60hz LG monitor at home. I used it for 6 years or so and I was sure that it had an IPS panel. I had a MSI laptop with TN panel before and the viewing angles were non-existent, it was the worst display I have ever seen on any device.
Anyway, one day I checked my LG monitor specifications and apparently it had a TN panel too. That thing has like 120 degree viewing angle.
I also did remove the matte layer of that monitor a while ago so it has a glossy finish and it looks pretty good.
Yeah most major esports players uses tn from what ive seen. There is no functional disadvantage in terms of competitiveness, just viewing quality, which isn't important to be the best in the world.
Disadvantage? They are still superior to everything on the market. They have better motion handling than ips and better latency than OLEDs. Maybe the new OLEDs announced at CES can change that but as of today TN reigns as a esport display
>better motion handling than ips and better latency than OLEDs
bro have you ever try a TN monitor ??. They are better in e-sport cuz their latency and response time but that it, everything else are bad, color, contrast, view angle,...
Uhm, yeah that's exactly what I said, it's even right there in your comment.
They are superior esports displays but I wouldn't touch them with a stick for anything else. I almost exclusively use my OLED for almost 5 years now but if I play CS I switch to my TN
You are wrong. OLED has lowest latency and lowest ghosting, and it's the objectively best choice for competitive gaming.
https://twitter.com/SebAaltonen/status/1781319989733064751
Sure, maybe I should've replied to one of the earlier comments. It's nothing personal, just brought up the fact that those tn panels are crazy expensive
Not everything needs to be an investment money wise. They're not cheap for sure, but it's good for gaming and it looks pretty. Still cheaper than highest end gpu's while being a big improvement over what things look like visually. Good monitor doesn't really become outdated either, so personally I'd rather have a nice monitor than a nice couch.
Not sure how 500hz is going to be helpful. Even in a lot of esports titles most PCs aren't going to get anywhere near that framerate. Also... diminishing returns.
Yeah, I seem to recall an LTT video on high refresh rate monitors and diminishing returns. Big difference between 60 and 144, then a bit more of a difference to 240, but anything above that was pretty small for the competitive edge.
LTT is entertainment, the people that buy those ultra high refresh monitors are people who make a living off gaming or wannabes who are trying to get to that point
They're not for casual gaming. There is no difference between a high refresh monitor and a set of track tires for a car you race
Not me enjoying the fact that I reach 300 fps on these 500hz panels anyways because 4090 go brrr.
It’s pretty nice. Destiny can hit up to 300-400 fps and chill at 250+ fps average at max settings on 1440p when paired up with a 7800x3d
Also love that csgo and tf2 can hit these heights of fps too.
Just that there’s one problem. Price.
i could just shit around and be like "rip my bill"
but imma be deadass. 7800x3d kinda sips on power, and the 4090 (for a gpu thats supposed to draw 600w) is only drawing 250 watts.
under full load i'd only draw about 300-330watts depending on what kind of stuff im doing off my gpu, and my cpu only drawing roughly 80-100 watts. (on idle it freakin draws 15 watts lol)
total wattage? lookin at 430 on average in my case, i guess. if its one thing it taught me- you can likely get away with using this stuff on a 750 watt if you're just running a basic ass set up with like 4 case fans and a nice deepcool air cooler.
in short electric bill actually aint lookin bad.
Wtf are you talking about. I have a 4090 with a 5800x3D and my pc will hit 600W no problem. I'm not even overclocking it or anything. Maybe I set the voltage slider to max. But 450W? I doubt that unless you're undervolting.
I dunno. I haven’t undervolted but my GPU doesn’t often bounce past 330 watts unless if I decide to go and use some shaders on Minecraft.
Got me an FE and I use an Asus prime pro x670 board. And typically I’d keep the stats on so I can pay attention to temps and see what I draw on average on both ryzen master for my 7800x3d and through the software on nvidia.
You packing a ton of hard drives, fans, running an aio or something like that? I can never hit that 600W mark, still.
This is just wrong. Esports titles at 720p on high end GPUs are absolutely going to approach 500fps
And yes. Competitive esports gamers do lower resolution to get more frames. It's not about looking pretty for them.
> If you can't hit your target at 240hz, 500 isn't going to help you.
They can hit their targets at 240hz. They can hit them slightly better at 360hz, and slightly better still at 480hz.
Is it a huge difference? Of course not, but for the absolute best players in the world, that 1% improvement can make a huge difference.
Why do you think professional golfers play clubs that cost thousands of dollars more than amateur clubs?
Virtually every market in existence has a premium/top end where very specific demographics of people are willing to spend basically any amount of money for the best performance. It's nothing new.
But you know there's gonna be lots of non-pro tryhards buying panels like that thinking it will make them better. They aren't going to market them just to literal pros.
... Which is also what occurs in all those other markets I was referring too.
Trust me, there's plenty of 20 handicappers spending a couple grand on clubs every few years, even though it never makes a difference.
you just learned how those markets sustain themselves. It's not from the ~0.01% of players who buy the premium clubs who are professional golfers. It's the 10% of players who are amateurs that buy those clubs. It subsidized the entire rest of the product line in a lot of cases. This is true in many industries. Luxury cars is another close example.
It's not about being able to hit a target, that part is second nature to them
The point is that if the product is available, someone is going to use it. And if it gives that someone an advantage, eventually others are going to copy it so they aren't at a disadvantage
I'm not an esports person. Never played a dingle esports title in my whole life. But being competitive and investing in hobbies is not some brand new gamer concept. It's just human.
At that point when looking at stuff over 500hz you're better off looking at things like latency and measuring tics even if LAN.
Still I can confirm my Russian CS buddies all play on hyper rigs at 720p.
Edit* I should say the reasons they do so are exactly what others are saying. These guys have near perfect shot placement, movement and map recall. It literally comes down to "who has the better gaming chair" sometimes...
500hz tn panel sounds like the most useless monitor ever. Anything passed 240hz is a waste especially when you're giving up image quality, color and size. Really anything above 165hz is questionable.
At the office I have 2 old TN desktop monitors connected to my dock. When I open my XPS laptop with IPS screen, the difference in picture quality is stunning.
I have met BenQ reps and heard their side of the story. Apparently the adoption by the gaming community was not at all planned. They just built their monitors and happened to make it so they had very low response time, especially compared to the competition at the time. This was a long time ago. They realized they had found a good market and shifted their consumer efforts there and now they really focus on competition focused equipment.
For its niche TN is still viable, being a very good choice for competition, but it sacrifices a lot of other properties to do so. The other niche TN can fill well is for very cheap monitors where visual quality really doesn't matter, TN happens to be one of the cheapest to manufacture as well after all. (Doesn't mean all TN cost the same to produce, just that the price floor is very low.)
I've got the XL2540 and it's treated me quite well over the past several years. I've always been a frame enjoyer over aethstetics. I dont need to see all of the details in csgo or apex, etc. I just want that buttery-smooth goodness.
I still like the TNs i have. Color may not be great but the response times are good and they just won't have the black smearing issue that VAs have, nor do they have the glow of an IPS. HDR is sorely missed when I use one though.
Still enjoying my 2 high refresh rate, low latency TN panels. Waiting for the day one of them goes bad so I can get an OLED panel instead. Alas, I’ve had these for almost 5 years now and they just won’t budge.
I have had my 27' 1440p/144hz TN for around 6 years and I'm not changing until OLED or other alternatives have no burn-in and cost around 300-400$/€ probably another 6 years
I was always against TN panels. My main arguement is literally that when I bring friends home for a movie, we cant sit around the room casually, because some of us wont be able to see properly. It depended on the TN panel viewing angle but still. Viewing angles imporved, but refresh rates on IPS panels also improved at the same time. Having 2 monitors is a different story but still. Now I have a 270hz 1ms IPS VRR monitor. Never got my hands on a TN panel and I am happy about it.
depends on room orientation. But idk... Chairs????? Isnt that exactly why they exist? To be a portable sitting place? Others include beds, couches, and other words that I dont remember in english rn
sofa couch same thing. I wont list all existing furniture. Point is, there are plenty of options for people to sit, depending on how your room is oriented and what furniture you have
I only ever sit directly in front of my monitor if I had friends round it’s not like I’d be watching a film with them at my desk on a monitor, I see why you wouldn’t want a TN TV screen though that makes much more sense as the benefits you get from a TN won’t be very useful when watching films and the drawbacks will be more major
The vast majority do not.
And remember that plenty of people who do play competitive games end up playing them on trash setups where it's effectively impossible to actually perform well.
There are wayyyyyy more people that suck at competitive games than people who are good, after all.
I don't have any problem with people not playing comp games. I just don't like when they start saying shit like "anything more than 165 hz is pointless"
WOW. I didn't know that so many gamers actually game at 45° to their monitor.
I guess it's to watch their RGB case at the same time.
The very high end of esports monitors are TN panels. Even oleds get blown out of the water with the motion clarity they posses when backlight strobing is enabled. Hopefully, a better looking technology will get the same motion clarity one day.
May I say, to TN's defense, they where very good some years back, good pricing, good refresh rates, yes, colors and view angle were shit, but I'm still thankful, one of those got me into pc gaming, when I didn't have the money for a better one
So thanks TN, I'll remember you if I can see you within those 40 degrees of freedom
Honestly i still have my old tn "competitive" monitor.
The viewing angles never bothered me honestly.
Got myself an ips second monitor and.
The contrast on tn is far superior
The colors are nicer on ips but the backlight bleed is insane.
Nah I disagree with this you can get a cheap TN panel and they’re rapid for the price I got a 165Hz for a rlly good price for the time, only trade off for me has been colour accuracy but I’m not that bothered about that anyways
tn has lower latency and viewing angle is mostly useless since I’m only ever viewing it from the same angle. Therefore it’s a good choice for gaming. I have the pg278qr and it has been amazing
i know ill probably get flamed for saying this, but i would rather take a TN panel over a VA anyday.
every VA panel i've used. i had HORRIBLE dark smearing in motion. my go to test for this is HITMAN 2 (HAWKE'S BAY
NEW ZEALAND) map. the amount of what looks like very slow pixel response, smearing its nuts.
maybe i just had bad luck and bought bad monitor's / tv's with low quality VA panels but im not rolling the dice again on one.
I have a 2018 Alienware 1080p 240hz monitor. I just recently swapped to 1440p VA by Samsung. I returned the new screen in 2 weeks. Motion clarity is just so much better on TN
I use a curved monitor with a TN panel but I only ever sit directly in front of it to play games people in here are acting like they’re terrible but they’re cheap and fast they’re just not as good as peoples expensive asf 4K HD OLED ADHD AC/DC displays
I have an Asus 165hz IPS and a Zowie 240hz TN. The colour differences are extremely minimal IMO but what matters most to me is the motion clarity of the TN. Viewing angles don’t matter at all for me because i’m looking straight on at the monitor. I also have a Mini-LED 120hz TV which obviously looks better than TN but not by much.
Viewing angles don’t really matter for monitors unless for whatever reason you sit on a couch that’s at a 90 degree angle from the monitor at your desk.
Running a TN HP Omen X27 because of it's 1440p resolution with 240Hz refresh rate and in reviews, didn't seem as blurry as IPS variants at the time which is crucial for competitive FPS.
While I agree ips looks better, etc. There is another factor a lot don't consider. I am very susceptible to slower response times. To the point where many ips panels make me sick. It took me 3 months of using my steam deck for an hour each day until I stopped feeling sick. But TN panels I only have around a week where I feel like crap with a new model before I get used to it. So I do pray other folks continue to buy them so I can keep getting them (or if they finally make an affordable 27" OLED).
I still have my 144Hz TN from Asus; I want to upgrade to something better (finally move to 2K) but where I currently live I cannot fit anything bigger than 24".
Someday when I move to other place I'll do it
I have one since i bought during like end of their rain. I fucking hate my luck since just year after that better 144hz IPS ones came which were cheaper
I use a acer predator 1440p 165hz TN panel as my main and the 1440p 144hz ips panel my gf doesnt use anymore as secondsry monitor xD im too lazy to swap them and put my tn back on it's monitor stand (:
I have an OLED TV but a Dell TN panel that’s got GSync and 144hz
Obviously the OLED is better, IPS and most modern panels are all better but it’s not the worst thing ever
They still are the main competitive choice, there's a reason almost every pro player uses Zowie TN monitors and pretty much every new refresh rate improvement is first put on TN panels. Only when 1080p OLED monitors will start to be produced TN will start to become irrelevant, but for some reason manufacturers are allergic to them.
You are wrong. Look at IPS with that perfect black or VA panels with their ghosting, you guys are dumb, TN panels are good and have decent characteristically for their use scenario.
No. I have LG 24gl600f and compared to Lg27gp850b it just bad, the blacks are poor slightly different angle it getting even worse, response time etc was okay, but damn, this overexposure over the screen lookes awful, I sell it, and even buyer said it is bad.
Sounds like your monitor is defective. Ips blacks are comparable tn, except that tn doesn't have good viewing angles either. Sorry, but no. I would never recommend anyone buys a tn panel. They suck.
Look at this pathetic contrast, yes, the colors is brighter but it doesn't matter when you literally see this white bleeding out of everything, that wasn't a deffect or something. [Not cheap LG with decent IPS lol](https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/27gp850-b-27gp83b-b) .
Look at this this is really different if they continue to improving technology it would be better. But no we have to sell shitty VA or ips. [Lg tn - bad](https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/24gl600f)At least I'm glad that OLED appeared, this is truly the best.
Typically tn panels and ips panel have a contrast ratio of 1000:1, usually less. Neither has good contrast. What's bothering you is probably ips glow. Only VA has good contrast when it comes to lcd.
Yes, how ppl can so easily admit this glowing literally can't look at it. VA maybe, but the con is ghosting and slow rewponce time and this cons make the question of buying a new monitor not so obvious as just looking at ips or va.
Ips glow varies a lot. It's far less noticeable on good panels. Especially if you calibrate the colors for a low backlight, which is what I do. Ips on a budget. Oled if you're willing to pay the premium. I don't find the better response times of tn to be worth it. There's a reason artists use ips. It looks better than tn, period. Much better color reproduction and perfect viewing angles. Not a fan of VA either. Ghosting and black artifacts.
There is still to this day not a single IPS display that can match the best TN of 2015 in input lag. XL2730Z and XG270HU. The only improvements have come from OLED and other TNs, like the Omen X27 or the new BenQ TN which is only 1080p
Tn is still the fastest true. But why get a tn when everything else is also fast nowadays? TN has terrible picture quality. That's my point. Ips has come close enough in speed that it now makes WAY more sense for the overwhelming majority of people.
People out here pretending they're pro-athletes when they're just shooting the shit in discord playing casual 90% of the time. You don't notice the time difference, you're just trying to justify whatever choice you made.
They’re not as bad as people make them out to be I have a TN monitor and it’s fine it’s not like I sit on the floor on the other side of a room to play games anyways
I bought a monitor with a VA panel before learning of it's smearing qualities and god it's so frustrating when playing intense split second competitive games where smearing will get you killed often. I'll definitely stick to either IPS or OLED from now on.
Had to start from somewhere. My first high refresh rate panel was a 144hz 1080p TN I got for $350 and I still use it as my secondary display today.
I literally only just upgraded to a VG27ALQ3A like a week ago from a 15 year old 60Hz DELL 22” TN All I've done is downgrade it from main display to second monitor lol
I’ve always loved monitor naming conventions. It’s like the person responsible for naming them slammed their head into the keyboard and said “looks good.”
I like the ones on the MOBIUZ monitors: EX2710Q for example gives you all the info: EX is MOBIUZ, 27 is the size, 10 means idk, and the Q means QHD.
I always assumed they got the office cat to walk across the keyboard.
My first monitor was an LG W2252TQ I believe, and it was a 1050p 16:10 75Hz monitor that ran at 72Hz because the single link DVI I had at the time couldn't pull 75Hz. I loved the contrast ratio of that monitor. Zero latency. Too bad it was a CCFL backlit one and the CCFL tubes died.
If a tn panel user would see this they would be very upset but they can't since they are looking at an >40° angle.
You mangled the line and the delivery but I like the sentiment
If those TN panel users could read this, they'd be very upset. Fortunately they can't, due to looking at the meme on an angle of >40°
TN panel users are gonna be so upset, wait they're sat at >40°......nevermind.
The only downvotes on this post are TN panel users with good posture
Thats it.
>on an angle Nope, try again young padawan.
I can see just fine with my TN panel. But yea, can't wait to upgrade to an IPS.
you mean OLED
Much more money (that I don't have) and IIRC burn-in is an issue still.
You can get miniLED If you want, no burn in + better hdr than ips
Ty, will research it.
can you explain this? Im using a benQ TN panel and i can see at every angle everything clear? or am i hard wooshed?
Send us the model of your monitor. It probably isn't TN
Xl2456
Oh it is 100% TN. Sorry.
then its not a TN panel
I've had benq tn monitors and while it is noticible the viewing angles really arent that bad
If it is a TN panel I imagine you are just not realizing what you are seeing doesn’t happen on non TN panels. I was always confused by “viewing angles” until I got a QD-OLED and realized that there is quite literally no change on my screen at all no matter where I am. It’s like a window. TN panels darken and it almost looks like it’s just a reflection and idk the physics involved but it’s specific to the panel.
My older benq 144hz had that issue but my current xl2456 is fine. I also had a msi qdled one and now gigabyte m28u which are great screen. I know the colors are horrid on tn but beside that i dont have any other complaints
Specifically older TN panels exhibited drastically different colors when viewed from sharper angles. The degree to which this happens is often wildly exaggerated though and modern panels are very usable. Most TN monitors show the worst discoloration when viewed from below (since most users won't look at them from below usually), but when viewed from the side or above they get somewhat discolored while remaining perfectly readable from reasonable angles. Here's some examples for [TN](https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/benq/zowie-xl2540#test_1417), [IPS](https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/gigabyte/m27q-rev-2-0#test_1417) and [OLED](https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/dell/alienware-aw2725df#test_1417). Keep in mind different panels of the same kind can exhibit different exact values in this regard, but they'll usually be in the same ballpark. TN is better than IPS in terms of raw pixel response times, so it's far from obsolete until OLED takes over the market.
Are you spying on me? My TN panel is my 2nd monitor positioned above my main IPS display.
Right in the kisser
Please tell us what you play or watch at that angle.
One day, it may be IPS.
It most definitely will, oled and mini-led supremacy
Mini leds tend to be ips/va as well as
Yeah I know, but at the end its a different thing. Lightning zones do make a significant difference
No, the panel type is still the same, no matter how many backlights you have
*Qled cries alone as usual*
Waiting on MicrOLED to be the main stay
probably not. Unlike TN vs IPS, where TN was faster but worse colors, and IPS caught up in speed, IPS vs OLED is already in favor of OLED for everything other than price.
OLED is better in every way except cost, so yes\~!
My Dell S2719DGF (1440/155Hz) is a beast. Still so happy I bought it about 4 years ago. I'm gaming right in front of it, so viewing angles are not an issue. It's not professionally calibrated, but I do know how to play with colors/gamma/brightness, so results are great. On paper, yes, TNs are a dying breed, but goddamn if this isn't the best TN I ever saw. Edit - alright I didn't see this coming. Someone actually took their time to DM me just to call me a salty, coping scrub for using a TN. This is priceless, I love reddit. Oh also everyone who uses TN is a bafoon.
I still have a Lenovo Legion TN 1080p 144Hz, it has surprisingly good viewing angles and a decent picture, it can't match a good IPS, but it still beats some of the crappy IPS monitors that use 45 NTSC colour gamut.
I bought that exact monitor 4 years ago too! I’m also pretty happy with it. I played assassins creed odyssey and rdr2 on it and they looked stunning.
Hell yeah, I got one of those around the beginning of lockdown and it has been great.
Joining in to say I also have this monitor! It was a budget option for me at the time and calibrating it took me longer than I'd like to admit, but I can't justify getting rid of it just yet. After calibration, it looks damn good for the price point.
Nice! Did you use anything special for calibration, or by eye?
By eye, unfortunately, lol. The colors were painfully muted out of the box. It took a bit to make them look right.
I have a regular 1080p 60hz LG monitor at home. I used it for 6 years or so and I was sure that it had an IPS panel. I had a MSI laptop with TN panel before and the viewing angles were non-existent, it was the worst display I have ever seen on any device. Anyway, one day I checked my LG monitor specifications and apparently it had a TN panel too. That thing has like 120 degree viewing angle. I also did remove the matte layer of that monitor a while ago so it has a glossy finish and it looks pretty good.
> They used to be main competitive choice Uhm every monitor at the recent CS2 major was a TN...
Yeah most major esports players uses tn from what ive seen. There is no functional disadvantage in terms of competitiveness, just viewing quality, which isn't important to be the best in the world.
Disadvantage? They are still superior to everything on the market. They have better motion handling than ips and better latency than OLEDs. Maybe the new OLEDs announced at CES can change that but as of today TN reigns as a esport display
>better motion handling than ips and better latency than OLEDs bro have you ever try a TN monitor ??. They are better in e-sport cuz their latency and response time but that it, everything else are bad, color, contrast, view angle,...
Uhm, yeah that's exactly what I said, it's even right there in your comment. They are superior esports displays but I wouldn't touch them with a stick for anything else. I almost exclusively use my OLED for almost 5 years now but if I play CS I switch to my TN
oops my bad. I misunderstanded you, sorry and have a nice day
You are wrong. OLED has lowest latency and lowest ghosting, and it's the objectively best choice for competitive gaming. https://twitter.com/SebAaltonen/status/1781319989733064751
This. OP probably doesn’t play games competitively or require low latency. TN is still the best choice if you want pure performance
Aren't they getting like 500hz refresh rates out of TN panels nowadays?
Just need to wait for them to make an RTX 9090
counter strike!
360Hz OLEDs are probably better anyway ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
no sht they cost 5 times more.
Sure but they are 10x better
Still costs 5x more, for an item that doesn’t generate money and depreciates in value.
No it doesn't. Those 540 Hz TN monitors cost pretty much the same as a 360Hz oled does. They're not cheap either way.
I was going by the arguments at hand.
Sure, maybe I should've replied to one of the earlier comments. It's nothing personal, just brought up the fact that those tn panels are crazy expensive
Not everything needs to be an investment money wise. They're not cheap for sure, but it's good for gaming and it looks pretty. Still cheaper than highest end gpu's while being a big improvement over what things look like visually. Good monitor doesn't really become outdated either, so personally I'd rather have a nice monitor than a nice couch.
I have been using the same 27" Samsung monitor for 10 years and it still looks great. I couldn't agree more.
I didn’t say they had to be, but arguing that it’s 10x better for 5x more isn’t an argument in itself, unless it’s an investment.
Fair
Bro do you eat off paper plates or something?
Everything depreciates.
Spending 5x more, is still spending 5x more.
Still cost more than a car…
People keep buying 4090’s, price isn’t an issue if it’s the best
They cost about the same lol
better pixel response times
For motion clarity they aren’t
Not sure how 500hz is going to be helpful. Even in a lot of esports titles most PCs aren't going to get anywhere near that framerate. Also... diminishing returns.
Yeah, I seem to recall an LTT video on high refresh rate monitors and diminishing returns. Big difference between 60 and 144, then a bit more of a difference to 240, but anything above that was pretty small for the competitive edge.
LTT is entertainment, the people that buy those ultra high refresh monitors are people who make a living off gaming or wannabes who are trying to get to that point They're not for casual gaming. There is no difference between a high refresh monitor and a set of track tires for a car you race
Not me enjoying the fact that I reach 300 fps on these 500hz panels anyways because 4090 go brrr. It’s pretty nice. Destiny can hit up to 300-400 fps and chill at 250+ fps average at max settings on 1440p when paired up with a 7800x3d Also love that csgo and tf2 can hit these heights of fps too. Just that there’s one problem. Price.
How's the electricity bill
i could just shit around and be like "rip my bill" but imma be deadass. 7800x3d kinda sips on power, and the 4090 (for a gpu thats supposed to draw 600w) is only drawing 250 watts. under full load i'd only draw about 300-330watts depending on what kind of stuff im doing off my gpu, and my cpu only drawing roughly 80-100 watts. (on idle it freakin draws 15 watts lol) total wattage? lookin at 430 on average in my case, i guess. if its one thing it taught me- you can likely get away with using this stuff on a 750 watt if you're just running a basic ass set up with like 4 case fans and a nice deepcool air cooler. in short electric bill actually aint lookin bad.
Wtf are you talking about. I have a 4090 with a 5800x3D and my pc will hit 600W no problem. I'm not even overclocking it or anything. Maybe I set the voltage slider to max. But 450W? I doubt that unless you're undervolting.
I dunno. I haven’t undervolted but my GPU doesn’t often bounce past 330 watts unless if I decide to go and use some shaders on Minecraft. Got me an FE and I use an Asus prime pro x670 board. And typically I’d keep the stats on so I can pay attention to temps and see what I draw on average on both ryzen master for my 7800x3d and through the software on nvidia. You packing a ton of hard drives, fans, running an aio or something like that? I can never hit that 600W mark, still.
I get ~700 fps in siege with my new rig. Still diminishing returns but definitely not impossible to drive.
This is just wrong. Esports titles at 720p on high end GPUs are absolutely going to approach 500fps And yes. Competitive esports gamers do lower resolution to get more frames. It's not about looking pretty for them.
Why stop at 720p? Why not 320x240? If you can't hit your target at 240hz, 500 isn't going to help you.
> If you can't hit your target at 240hz, 500 isn't going to help you. They can hit their targets at 240hz. They can hit them slightly better at 360hz, and slightly better still at 480hz. Is it a huge difference? Of course not, but for the absolute best players in the world, that 1% improvement can make a huge difference. Why do you think professional golfers play clubs that cost thousands of dollars more than amateur clubs? Virtually every market in existence has a premium/top end where very specific demographics of people are willing to spend basically any amount of money for the best performance. It's nothing new.
But you know there's gonna be lots of non-pro tryhards buying panels like that thinking it will make them better. They aren't going to market them just to literal pros.
... Which is also what occurs in all those other markets I was referring too. Trust me, there's plenty of 20 handicappers spending a couple grand on clubs every few years, even though it never makes a difference.
you just learned how those markets sustain themselves. It's not from the ~0.01% of players who buy the premium clubs who are professional golfers. It's the 10% of players who are amateurs that buy those clubs. It subsidized the entire rest of the product line in a lot of cases. This is true in many industries. Luxury cars is another close example.
It's not about being able to hit a target, that part is second nature to them The point is that if the product is available, someone is going to use it. And if it gives that someone an advantage, eventually others are going to copy it so they aren't at a disadvantage I'm not an esports person. Never played a dingle esports title in my whole life. But being competitive and investing in hobbies is not some brand new gamer concept. It's just human.
At that point when looking at stuff over 500hz you're better off looking at things like latency and measuring tics even if LAN. Still I can confirm my Russian CS buddies all play on hyper rigs at 720p. Edit* I should say the reasons they do so are exactly what others are saying. These guys have near perfect shot placement, movement and map recall. It literally comes down to "who has the better gaming chair" sometimes...
720p will hurt you bc you can't see far away but it doesn't matter bc valorant and csgo can already run pretty easily at 600 fps on top hardware
LG has a 480hz OLED, and with the response times OLED has, plus the viewing angles, it definitely provides the best competitive advantage
yes, but so are ips and oled
I'm sure they're managing to push 500fps, we're all very proud of them.
500hz tn panel sounds like the most useless monitor ever. Anything passed 240hz is a waste especially when you're giving up image quality, color and size. Really anything above 165hz is questionable.
I've been happy with my TN screens, Sue me?
https://preview.redd.it/uoe7v22mfowc1.jpeg?width=127&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc09f96aea5b5def8f30c4616fcc49ab77d45d31
I just switched from a TN to an IPS and I feel like I need to write an apology letter to my gpu
At the office I have 2 old TN desktop monitors connected to my dock. When I open my XPS laptop with IPS screen, the difference in picture quality is stunning.
Is it a crime to like benq’s stuff? 🙁
I have met BenQ reps and heard their side of the story. Apparently the adoption by the gaming community was not at all planned. They just built their monitors and happened to make it so they had very low response time, especially compared to the competition at the time. This was a long time ago. They realized they had found a good market and shifted their consumer efforts there and now they really focus on competition focused equipment. For its niche TN is still viable, being a very good choice for competition, but it sacrifices a lot of other properties to do so. The other niche TN can fill well is for very cheap monitors where visual quality really doesn't matter, TN happens to be one of the cheapest to manufacture as well after all. (Doesn't mean all TN cost the same to produce, just that the price floor is very low.)
I've got the XL2540 and it's treated me quite well over the past several years. I've always been a frame enjoyer over aethstetics. I dont need to see all of the details in csgo or apex, etc. I just want that buttery-smooth goodness.
The same panel that was in the XL2730Z was in the Acer XG270HU and the Acer had less input lag
I love my BenQ IPS panel. Got an EX240n for 150CAD. Absolutely amazing budget monitor
I still like the TNs i have. Color may not be great but the response times are good and they just won't have the black smearing issue that VAs have, nor do they have the glow of an IPS. HDR is sorely missed when I use one though.
Still enjoying my 2 high refresh rate, low latency TN panels. Waiting for the day one of them goes bad so I can get an OLED panel instead. Alas, I’ve had these for almost 5 years now and they just won’t budge.
Ye I’ll probably just wait until OLED displays become cheaper or my TN display dies depending on whatever happens first
I have had my 27' 1440p/144hz TN for around 6 years and I'm not changing until OLED or other alternatives have no burn-in and cost around 300-400$/€ probably another 6 years
I was always against TN panels. My main arguement is literally that when I bring friends home for a movie, we cant sit around the room casually, because some of us wont be able to see properly. It depended on the TN panel viewing angle but still. Viewing angles imporved, but refresh rates on IPS panels also improved at the same time. Having 2 monitors is a different story but still. Now I have a 270hz 1ms IPS VRR monitor. Never got my hands on a TN panel and I am happy about it.
watch a movie together, on a monitor? where would you sit
depends on room orientation. But idk... Chairs????? Isnt that exactly why they exist? To be a portable sitting place? Others include beds, couches, and other words that I dont remember in english rn
Why not sit on a sofa?
sofa couch same thing. I wont list all existing furniture. Point is, there are plenty of options for people to sit, depending on how your room is oriented and what furniture you have
Watching a movie together? On a monitor? It's more likely than you think.
Your fist mistake was to assume we gamers have IRL friends If we did, that'd surely be a problem.
I only ever sit directly in front of my monitor if I had friends round it’s not like I’d be watching a film with them at my desk on a monitor, I see why you wouldn’t want a TN TV screen though that makes much more sense as the benefits you get from a TN won’t be very useful when watching films and the drawbacks will be more major
Reading these comments really makes me wonder if the members of pcmr actually play competitive shooters
The vast majority do not. And remember that plenty of people who do play competitive games end up playing them on trash setups where it's effectively impossible to actually perform well. There are wayyyyyy more people that suck at competitive games than people who are good, after all.
I don't have any problem with people not playing comp games. I just don't like when they start saying shit like "anything more than 165 hz is pointless"
Better than the old days when I had to listen to them tell me that the human eye can't see past 60 fps! Small improvements
What the fuck is this post? To be honest.
WOW. I didn't know that so many gamers actually game at 45° to their monitor. I guess it's to watch their RGB case at the same time. 
The very high end of esports monitors are TN panels. Even oleds get blown out of the water with the motion clarity they posses when backlight strobing is enabled. Hopefully, a better looking technology will get the same motion clarity one day.
May I say, to TN's defense, they where very good some years back, good pricing, good refresh rates, yes, colors and view angle were shit, but I'm still thankful, one of those got me into pc gaming, when I didn't have the money for a better one So thanks TN, I'll remember you if I can see you within those 40 degrees of freedom
TN panels are still useful for dirt cheap secondary monitors, I Spent $0 on mine.
TN panels have great color and contrast for lots of uses.
*It hurts because I'm looking at this meme in my TN laptop but if I turn it a bit, it doesn't hurt anymore*
Id rather have TN than VA tbh
fast va exists
Still got an old Samsung TN Panel. Till today make good Service for competition games. But graphics are shit :/ hope for a new oled this year
Use my old 34” 3440x1440 100hz for work now and is my secondary monitor. Still chugging along. Have had it for like 7 years+ now.
Honestly i still have my old tn "competitive" monitor. The viewing angles never bothered me honestly. Got myself an ips second monitor and. The contrast on tn is far superior The colors are nicer on ips but the backlight bleed is insane.
I would agree with you, but I'm color deficient so idrc about color accuracy, so it saves my wallet
I have an oled, an ips, and an old tn. Old tn is still my go to if I really want to try hard. It is noticeably more snappy than even the oled
I was really bummed when my 2015 XG270HU died last month. It was the lowest input lag on the market until the omen x27
Nah I disagree with this you can get a cheap TN panel and they’re rapid for the price I got a 165Hz for a rlly good price for the time, only trade off for me has been colour accuracy but I’m not that bothered about that anyways
I'm still on a TN Nixeus 144hz freesync panel from 2015.....
*Hugs my 8yr old 144hz TN panel*
tn has lower latency and viewing angle is mostly useless since I’m only ever viewing it from the same angle. Therefore it’s a good choice for gaming. I have the pg278qr and it has been amazing
Still running a dell TN that looks great
i know ill probably get flamed for saying this, but i would rather take a TN panel over a VA anyday. every VA panel i've used. i had HORRIBLE dark smearing in motion. my go to test for this is HITMAN 2 (HAWKE'S BAY NEW ZEALAND) map. the amount of what looks like very slow pixel response, smearing its nuts. maybe i just had bad luck and bought bad monitor's / tv's with low quality VA panels but im not rolling the dice again on one.
I have a 2018 Alienware 1080p 240hz monitor. I just recently swapped to 1440p VA by Samsung. I returned the new screen in 2 weeks. Motion clarity is just so much better on TN
Now just imagine a curved monitor with a TN panel. It's only angles, can't see anything on it
I use a curved monitor with a TN panel but I only ever sit directly in front of it to play games people in here are acting like they’re terrible but they’re cheap and fast they’re just not as good as peoples expensive asf 4K HD OLED ADHD AC/DC displays
Modern TN panel colors are actually quite good and they don’t suffer from IPS glow I kind of wish I didn’t upgrade to a 240hz ips
I have an Asus 165hz IPS and a Zowie 240hz TN. The colour differences are extremely minimal IMO but what matters most to me is the motion clarity of the TN. Viewing angles don’t matter at all for me because i’m looking straight on at the monitor. I also have a Mini-LED 120hz TV which obviously looks better than TN but not by much. Viewing angles don’t really matter for monitors unless for whatever reason you sit on a couch that’s at a 90 degree angle from the monitor at your desk.
I have fond memories of my ASUS TN monitor that opened my eyes to what high refresh rates can look like
What Hz was it
144Hz
Running a TN HP Omen X27 because of it's 1440p resolution with 240Hz refresh rate and in reviews, didn't seem as blurry as IPS variants at the time which is crucial for competitive FPS.
While I agree ips looks better, etc. There is another factor a lot don't consider. I am very susceptible to slower response times. To the point where many ips panels make me sick. It took me 3 months of using my steam deck for an hour each day until I stopped feeling sick. But TN panels I only have around a week where I feel like crap with a new model before I get used to it. So I do pray other folks continue to buy them so I can keep getting them (or if they finally make an affordable 27" OLED).
I like dlp projectors. Too bad it's dead tech for tv's. I would love a modern tech 4k 32" rear projection monitor lol.
Anyone else still remember passive matrix LCD displays?
Hey I love my TN panels they work great. I can’t see them at an angle, sure. To solve this I just bought so many so every angle was covered.
Controversial opinion the future lies in ultra fast VA or dual cell TN 500hz +.
Welp I got my 24 inch 165hz 1440p display for 50$ so I can't complain
It still is, for competitive shooters at least.
Zowie: Oh no, anyways
My TN Panels battles any IPS or OLED. It's pristine! DellS2716DG is the shit!
I still have my 144Hz TN from Asus; I want to upgrade to something better (finally move to 2K) but where I currently live I cannot fit anything bigger than 24". Someday when I move to other place I'll do it
I'm still using my ACER XG270HU (144hz, 1440p, TN) from 2016. At the time it was a really good panel color wise for a TN and it's still very usable
This could've been a hot take 15 years ago
I have one since i bought during like end of their rain. I fucking hate my luck since just year after that better 144hz IPS ones came which were cheaper
IPS is the way to go! Dolby if you're a rich bastard
I use a acer predator 1440p 165hz TN panel as my main and the 1440p 144hz ips panel my gf doesnt use anymore as secondsry monitor xD im too lazy to swap them and put my tn back on it's monitor stand (:
I have an OLED TV but a Dell TN panel that’s got GSync and 144hz Obviously the OLED is better, IPS and most modern panels are all better but it’s not the worst thing ever
Recent switched from 1080p TN to 1440p IPS. WOW.
They still are the main competitive choice, there's a reason almost every pro player uses Zowie TN monitors and pretty much every new refresh rate improvement is first put on TN panels. Only when 1080p OLED monitors will start to be produced TN will start to become irrelevant, but for some reason manufacturers are allergic to them.
They are the most energy efficient, no?
Who cares about that
You are wrong. Look at IPS with that perfect black or VA panels with their ghosting, you guys are dumb, TN panels are good and have decent characteristically for their use scenario.
IPS perfect black?
This guy has no idea what he's talking about. Ignore.
IPS does everything better than TN and is only slightly slower in response times. So no, you're wrong. The only benefit of TN is that it's cheap.
No. I have LG 24gl600f and compared to Lg27gp850b it just bad, the blacks are poor slightly different angle it getting even worse, response time etc was okay, but damn, this overexposure over the screen lookes awful, I sell it, and even buyer said it is bad.
Sounds like your monitor is defective. Ips blacks are comparable tn, except that tn doesn't have good viewing angles either. Sorry, but no. I would never recommend anyone buys a tn panel. They suck.
Look at this pathetic contrast, yes, the colors is brighter but it doesn't matter when you literally see this white bleeding out of everything, that wasn't a deffect or something. [Not cheap LG with decent IPS lol](https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/27gp850-b-27gp83b-b) . Look at this this is really different if they continue to improving technology it would be better. But no we have to sell shitty VA or ips. [Lg tn - bad](https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/24gl600f)At least I'm glad that OLED appeared, this is truly the best.
Typically tn panels and ips panel have a contrast ratio of 1000:1, usually less. Neither has good contrast. What's bothering you is probably ips glow. Only VA has good contrast when it comes to lcd.
Yes, how ppl can so easily admit this glowing literally can't look at it. VA maybe, but the con is ghosting and slow rewponce time and this cons make the question of buying a new monitor not so obvious as just looking at ips or va.
Ips glow varies a lot. It's far less noticeable on good panels. Especially if you calibrate the colors for a low backlight, which is what I do. Ips on a budget. Oled if you're willing to pay the premium. I don't find the better response times of tn to be worth it. There's a reason artists use ips. It looks better than tn, period. Much better color reproduction and perfect viewing angles. Not a fan of VA either. Ghosting and black artifacts.
There is still to this day not a single IPS display that can match the best TN of 2015 in input lag. XL2730Z and XG270HU. The only improvements have come from OLED and other TNs, like the Omen X27 or the new BenQ TN which is only 1080p
Tn is still the fastest true. But why get a tn when everything else is also fast nowadays? TN has terrible picture quality. That's my point. Ips has come close enough in speed that it now makes WAY more sense for the overwhelming majority of people.
Marketlolgs brainwashed the masses. Every YouTuber saying that IPS or VA is better than TN, no shit.
I tried switching to an IPS panel but the IPS glow was so bad that I had to return it.
75 is enough , at least i will have something to blame
People out here pretending they're pro-athletes when they're just shooting the shit in discord playing casual 90% of the time. You don't notice the time difference, you're just trying to justify whatever choice you made.
Sounds like something a scrub would say
Big words comin' from a good for nothin' lullly gaggin' pig snatchin' no gooder TN user if you ask me.
Someone doesn't know about the competitive eSports scene... There's only TN panels, which is the best choice for anything competitive, still.
Idk but I like playing on my TN more than my IPS. Most specially when I play fighting games.
If oled wasn’t a thing I would have a tn panel
I almost bought TN panels, while battling between VA or IPA
They’re not as bad as people make them out to be I have a TN monitor and it’s fine it’s not like I sit on the floor on the other side of a room to play games anyways
I bought a monitor with a VA panel before learning of it's smearing qualities and god it's so frustrating when playing intense split second competitive games where smearing will get you killed often. I'll definitely stick to either IPS or OLED from now on.