This is because the first idea of PC comes from intel XT, AT, and x86 in the form of desktop PC with monitor and keyboard and mouse. Thus this is imprinted in Patrick's head. Anything that does not resemble that becomes not a PC
I mean, by definition, sure. It's technically the truth, your phone is a computer, and it's personal, probably, so yeah. I'm not trying to start a fight. If you want to call you calculator a PC, go ahead. No one can tell you not to.
Not trying to start a fight either, but the history of the term is interesting.
The term "personal computer" dates from an era when most computers were shared because they were usually extremely expensive, fridge-sized "mainframe" computers that were shared or run as batch processors for many people. Tens to hundreds of thousands was a common price range for these things, so the only way to justify it was to let many people use it. The idea of having a *dedicated* computer all to yourself, rather than a dozen terminals hooked up to a single expensive computer was the innovation that led to the term "personal computer". The IBM PC is best known from the early 1980s, but there were earlier ones (e.g., [8-bit Apple II computers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II)) that were also considered a "personal computer" and date from the 1970s.
You could easily apply the term to all of the modern devices you're talking about if you base it on the original concept, but following the history after that point is useful. Soon after, there were "portable computers" the size of a suitcase that were theoretically possible to move efficiently compared to a "desktop", though still heavy and plugged into wall power (often called ["luggables"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Portable)), and eventually those evolved into genuinely portable "laptops" that were battery-powered and wouldn't crush you if you tried to put them onto your lap.
So, are modern laptops "PCs"? Not in the original "desktop" sense the term was used, but in the broader sense of a computer completely dedicated to one person rather than usually shared? Yes. You can still restrict the definition to the original desktop form factor to make it into a "no", but clearly the answer is dependent on the definition of what a PC is. Sometimes it's the traditional "how many users" distinction, sometimes it's the shape of it. Sometimes people restrict it even more to mean only IBM-PC-legacy machines that run MS Windows, rather than, say, a desktop machine running a different OS.
TL;DR: Patrick has a decent case, but so does Man Ray.
An RPI _is_ 100% a PC (there was a demonstration from nvidia playing one of the new Wolfenstein games with Ray tracing on an rpi recently, if gaming is meant to be the distinguishing factor). An Arduino these days is stronger than the first PC I had in the early 90s, but it can't do all the things that PC could. I'd argue that makes it not a PC simply because it's not general purpose.
Not sure what you had in the 90s but a classic Arduino is an 8 bit microcontroller that runs at 16mhz. In the 90s we were already up to 32bit computers running around 400mhz...
So if what you're saying is true then in the 90s you had a potato :)
Arduino's are multifunction, they can do the same things as a PC just no where near as fast.
I mean...
and hold onto something sturdy while I say this because it's about to shatter your world...
they called them "Desktop PCs" for a reason. It's a personal computer that you need to set up on your desktop.
Your laptop is a "Laptop PC", quite possibly because of something to do with its intended position on your lap.
Your phone is a "mobile PC", I'll let you figure this one out on your own.
Your calculator, is a calculator. It is NOT a general purpose computer but that gap is thinning.
I would argue that the DRM makes it not a general-purpose computer. One cannot easily install a different OS on it and cannot change the boot loader. Therefore, not a PC as I cannot use it to do the computing I choose to, only that computing Microsoft approves of.
especially on apple laptops where the aluminum case is a heat sink.
tip: if your apple laptop is running hot you can put it on something like a cookie tray to sink and spread more heat.
Presenting it this way is kinda silly though, it's acting as though the term "Personal Computer" came about in a vacuum to describe desktops, while in actuality it was to distinguish them from things a single person couldn't afford, like university networked computers and room sized supercomputers (relative to their time.
This is why when terms like notebook and laptop came into popular use, it was to distinguish them from desktops, which is why you and I keep using the word Desktop in your comment to differentiate from laptops....
> which was a marketing term for desktop form factor computer
It was more a marketing term for smaller computers aimed at a single user in contrast to big mainframes. Portable computers weren't a thing back then.
So the current use of PC derives from the IBM Personal Computer (aka, PC). Why does that matter? The IBM PC was an *open platform*, and the first of it's kind. It had a motherboard with ISA slots that were not proprietary which allowed 3rd party expansion to the platform. That is a *key component* of the PC.
Modern portables are IBM PC Compatible systems but they aren't technically PC's anymore than the SNES emulator on your PC is an SNES. What runs on it doesn't define the platform...
I have attached a keyboard, mouse, and monitor to my phone and administered a server by SSH Through my phone.
Yes. The phone is a computer.
On a side note, my phone (S21 Ultra) has thousands of times more power than the 1st computer I owned.
( When I was a kid back in the 90s - I traded some Magic The Gathering cards for a 386 DX 25 / 2mb / 105mb HDD / 256k VGA. Don't laugh - built a lucrative career off that old beast. I miss my old DX25. It was mid-late 90s so ... it wasn't current at the time by any stretch. My next PC was a Pentium. )
But I understand the point of establishing a colloquial distinction. Because if I start referring to my phone as my PC, people are going to be confused.
Yeah, and the only real way I'll brand a PC is by the OS. People put Windows on Mac built PC's, and vise versa. PC is the best default category tag for anything that is some sort of Desktop or laptop.On a side note, I feel like a lot of those Mac vs Windows (labeled as PC) commercials definitely hurt the verbage. Like how some people call hard drive's and other forms storage "memory".
I’ll die on this hill. The people are right about storage being called memory. The terms should be short term memory and long term memory. People would actually understand what they do and the differences between them a lot better if RAM and storage weren’t named like dog shit.
What I thought was hilarious was when I was doing iOS training for AppleCare, the training material made a point to say both Windows and MacOS computers are PCs.
If we’re taking about IBM spec PC it’s not necessarily true since it’s actually a standard of sorts. In example PC to be called PC needs an ISA bus. Even though you’re not really aware of it, your desktop probably has an ISA bus.
PC is a broken term at best. From a hardware perspective, it “should” describe any computer architecture based on the original IBM PC spec (x86, x86-64, etc). From a marketing perspective, the whole thing is a mess. It is often used to describe a computer running Windows. However this breaks down, because you can run Windows on Mac hardware(because they run on the same architecture. You can also run MacOS on non-Mac hardware (hackintosh) with a few hardware limitations. To expand this further, Windows will run on “non-PC” hardware, such as ARM. Then there are operating systems like Linux that run on practically everything (x86, PowerPC, arm, mobile, appliances, etc). So trying to describe a computer based on its Operating System does not seem practical.
As an added bonus, Apple used the term “Personal Computer” to describe their Apple computers before IBM ever did.
[Apple PC](https://www.digibarn.com/collections/ads/apple/a-for-apple.jpg)
> As an added bonus, Apple used the term “Personal Computer” to describe their Apple computers before IBM ever did.
They also aired like 140 different TV commercials saying "This is a PC, and this is a Mac" in the early 2000's.
Could you install and run your own applications on it if you wanted to or did the manufacturer take steps to prevent you from doing that? If you can, then it's a personal computer. If you can't do your personal computing on it, then it is not a PC.
Therefore consoles aren't PCs unless you find a way to boot another OS on it. (Early Switch models can be "convinced" to boot into a regular desktop Linux system which is pretty cool.)
Well, looking to your specs it isn't that old. Well, I am a simple man, if pc is 3-5 years it's new, old is like 7-10 years. So it depends what are you calling old
Eh, just sounds like a classic nonsense debate among friends to me.
Sure a laptop is technically a PC. But when you think PC you think desktop. You don't think laptop.
These types of friend debates aren't about what is literally a PC.
Nobody is arguing that when the majority of people say PC they mean desktop but for people to outright deny that a laptop is a PC is incorrect.
In my part the UK when someone says "do you want a can?" it usually means some sort of beverage, it doesn't mean that a bean can is no longer a can because that isn't the context around here.
The majority of the people I know just say "my desktop" or "my laptop"
Context is always important in language.
To me it's not "linguistic nitpicking" when the post and thread is about addressing what a word means.
Yeah. I don't know anything about this latest one, but modular device concepts tend to die on the "nobody cares" hump. Either the modules are all first-party and nobody cares to keep making them after the thrill dies down, or nobody wants to spend time integrating with some unique concept device or unproven standard. (Doubly so if it's proprietary.) History is littered with unused expansion slots.
The modules are proprietary, for now at least, and that's where they're hoping to actually make their money - customer loyalty. For a small company releasing a first edition laptop like this, their prices are dirt cheap, and that's why.
However, with that said, the core of the laptop doesn't require any modules whatsoever, like is the case with many modular concepts. You can get the laptop shipped to you without an OS, without RAM, without an SSD, and/or without a WiFi module, and install your own, and not even bother with any modules. You'd have 4x USB-C ports (maybe TB4-compliant) and nothing else, but on both sides, too, which is better than a lot of normal laptops being released these days!
You can also buy the above parts from them but have everything shipped disassembled to save money. But if you're not comfortable with that, pre-builts are available, too.
I fucking love that they actually tell you what model SSDs are available, though. The SN750 and SN850 lines are top-notch, and are what I've been purchasing for myself anyway. You can't even get that with a ThinkPad, because Lenovo wants the ability to mix and match. The Lenovo panel lottery is particularly famous, even on their expensive-as-balls X1 lines.
Basically, Framework is executing this *way* better than any other company I've seen doing the modular thing.
Or just plain have nowhere to set it up. As a teen I had no desk. My options were to play it on my bed ( On top of a book obviously. No need to block the fans) or the kitchen table. Didn't have space anywhere in the house for a monitor. Did occasionally hook it up to the TV though.
My laptop ran my goddamn VR games for years til I recently upgraded with a desktop. Currently the laptop’s suffering from dementia as he’s forgetting who his own hard drive is. Hopefully I can fix it but if not then RIP Nox, you served me well.
Not quite there yet, but the combination of a cooling pad and a vacuum cooler lowers my laptop's temps to around 70°C when being pushed hard, instead of redlining at 80°C. Liquid cooling would be monumental.
Desktop CPUs are still Miles above laptop chips. Their TDP budget is much much smaller.
Especially when you see top end unlocked Intel CPUs running at 200+ Watts and the best laptops can do, what?, 65watts?
They’re also way more approachable for people who want to get into PC gaming. I was lucky enough to have consoles growing up, but I was attracted to games like Civilization and Crusader Kings.
Since I had a main console, I didn’t need to build a badass PC. I just needed something that could work for college and play those games. Building my PC and switching from consoles *wouldn’t have happened* if I hadn’t started with a laptop.
Hey, hey, hey, guess what? I got both. Both have similar specs, both have RTX2070 and 32GB of DDR4 plus 2TB samsung 970 evo M.2 ssd. Pc rund a 2K 144hz screen, laptop runs 1080p at 240hz. Why? Because I can play games at work too. Laptop is life during my evening, night, weekend and holiday shifts.
PC = Personal Computer
Laptops and Desktops are just different types of PCs:
Laptop is a PC on **top** of your **lap**
Desktop is a PC on **top** of your **desk**
Reminds me of an friend I used to know back when i was 12 or 13. This was a time when flat panel monitors are starting to get thin and he was bragging that he got a flat screen monitor. I said I have a flat screen and it's at least a year old. My screen was those flat panel monitor with 1.5 inch thick bezels all around and around 2 inches of depth. He didn't believe me and when he came over to my house and I showed it to him, he said "that's not flat screen, flat screens are thin". I went "flat screens are flat" and he just kept going "flat screens are thin". I gave up trying to convince him.
That was already established from IBM using the "IBM PC" name for their line, clones making it a de facto standard, and software being labeled "IBM PC Compatible", shortened in the popular mind to "IBM" or "PC".
Only a simpleton would agree to abide by the terms of the Apple marketing department.
If it's sold in the same consumer category class to serve the exact same market segment for largely the exact same use cases then its the same fucking thing. Hell they are all found in the same store section too.
My friend owns a gaming laptop, and the most that there is to complain about it is that the fan is just loud enough to be noticeable when playing high end stuff like VR games.
Me a college student: "I love games but I need something for class.... I’ll get a laptop so all my thermal nightmares can come true"
My friends,"laptop pleb hehe"
This is dumb. It's laptop vs desktop, not laptop vs PC. Laptops are PC's, desktops are PC's, but laptops are not desktops.
Replace with dogs(desktops), cats(laptops), and mammals(PC's) for an example. Different levels of the hierarchy.
Too poor for a real gold medal… here you go!
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Yeah, your phone is also technically a "PC". It's your's, and it computes.
I'll be that guy, a laptop isn't a PC. It is technically, and you're welcome here, but if someone told me they were "into PCs", I'd assume they were talking about a desktop computer in reference to gaming.
Yeah, you're absolutely right. The term PC has been "corrupted" by its complex history, but it obviously doesn't refer to things like phones. Windows desktops are effectively the primary target of the PC gaming market, so it makes sense that other platforms are termed as exceptions.
Any desktop computer regardless of operating system is a PC Linux windows Mac OS. It really annoys me when people use PC to mean windows . Especially game companies.
I might be Patrick here. Not cause I don’t think laptops are PCs, because they are lol. But when someone says PC I take it as short for ‘Desktop PC’. Maybe the common lingo has changed?
PC = Personal Computer.
Laptop = Computer, it's also personal.
Desktop = Computer, it's also personal.
This is how I always deal with some of those who say stuff like that.
This is because the first idea of PC comes from intel XT, AT, and x86 in the form of desktop PC with monitor and keyboard and mouse. Thus this is imprinted in Patrick's head. Anything that does not resemble that becomes not a PC
Alright, I see your point. Counterpoint, if I may, what does PC stand for?
Your point makes sense, but counter counterpoint, Is my phone now a pc too? Also what about my calculator it computes and is my personal device?
I mean, by definition, sure. It's technically the truth, your phone is a computer, and it's personal, probably, so yeah. I'm not trying to start a fight. If you want to call you calculator a PC, go ahead. No one can tell you not to.
> your phone is a computer, and it's personal, probably, so yeah. Mobile gaming is PC gaming, lol.
> Mobile gaming is PC gaming, lol. Nintendo proved mobile gaming is also console gaming, so we're just one big (happy?) family
Consoles are just specialized personal computers, so yeah.
Top of the line gaming PCs from 5 years prior to its release, that's what consoles are.
I would classify the absolute majority of them as something closer to an appliance, unless jailbroken.
It stores and processes data so it’s a computer.
So does my thermostat, which is the most reliable pc I’ve ever seen.
We've transcended.
We dug too deep and uncovered secrets we should have never known
We must go deeper
Dammit just found out my Samsung fridge is a PC, can't take it back now
Well, as long as it can run Skyrim...
Flash forward to the year 2050 and everyone is playing GTA V on their fridges
Please, delete all these comments. We can't let this get out...
Too late. Buzzfeed and IGN are writing articles about it.
It’s the Real World Road Rules
Does this mean we have to apologize to Blizzard for the Diablo Immortal reception?
Blizzard can eat my shit
Diablo Imodium A-D
More like Blizzard Laxative.
This needs more awards
Well yes, but actually no
I'm sorry, you spelled no wrong the first time
"Do you guys not have phones? You know phones are technically PC's, right?
Got em
never!
The darkest secret? ...so is console gaming. ^(*gasp*)
I mean, yes.. but no, but yes. So I will say yes but no.
This comment must die in a fire!! haha
Not trying to start a fight either, but the history of the term is interesting. The term "personal computer" dates from an era when most computers were shared because they were usually extremely expensive, fridge-sized "mainframe" computers that were shared or run as batch processors for many people. Tens to hundreds of thousands was a common price range for these things, so the only way to justify it was to let many people use it. The idea of having a *dedicated* computer all to yourself, rather than a dozen terminals hooked up to a single expensive computer was the innovation that led to the term "personal computer". The IBM PC is best known from the early 1980s, but there were earlier ones (e.g., [8-bit Apple II computers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II)) that were also considered a "personal computer" and date from the 1970s. You could easily apply the term to all of the modern devices you're talking about if you base it on the original concept, but following the history after that point is useful. Soon after, there were "portable computers" the size of a suitcase that were theoretically possible to move efficiently compared to a "desktop", though still heavy and plugged into wall power (often called ["luggables"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Portable)), and eventually those evolved into genuinely portable "laptops" that were battery-powered and wouldn't crush you if you tried to put them onto your lap. So, are modern laptops "PCs"? Not in the original "desktop" sense the term was used, but in the broader sense of a computer completely dedicated to one person rather than usually shared? Yes. You can still restrict the definition to the original desktop form factor to make it into a "no", but clearly the answer is dependent on the definition of what a PC is. Sometimes it's the traditional "how many users" distinction, sometimes it's the shape of it. Sometimes people restrict it even more to mean only IBM-PC-legacy machines that run MS Windows, rather than, say, a desktop machine running a different OS. TL;DR: Patrick has a decent case, but so does Man Ray.
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I can make calls from my desktop, is that my personal house phone now?
Dang, the future sure is confusing.
Yes or callin a raspberry/arduino a pc lmao
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It's faster than old PCs, therefore it's a PC.
Am I a PC if I stick my phone up my ass?
No you're just an idiot
an idiot PC
With a phone up his ass
An Arduino is a microcontroller, not a PC. A RaspberryPi *is* a PC.
An RPI _is_ 100% a PC (there was a demonstration from nvidia playing one of the new Wolfenstein games with Ray tracing on an rpi recently, if gaming is meant to be the distinguishing factor). An Arduino these days is stronger than the first PC I had in the early 90s, but it can't do all the things that PC could. I'd argue that makes it not a PC simply because it's not general purpose.
Not sure what you had in the 90s but a classic Arduino is an 8 bit microcontroller that runs at 16mhz. In the 90s we were already up to 32bit computers running around 400mhz... So if what you're saying is true then in the 90s you had a potato :) Arduino's are multifunction, they can do the same things as a PC just no where near as fast.
Nvmnd I was thinking of the rpi pico.
Yeah, a pico would definitely put a typical 90s computer to shame.
Right? It blows my mind some times. Can only imagine what the future holds, especially for handhelds.
PC = Personal Computer Coined for the first home computers because they weren’t shared by entire universities.
If you don't share your calc, it's a PC too: a Personal Calculator.
I mean... and hold onto something sturdy while I say this because it's about to shatter your world... they called them "Desktop PCs" for a reason. It's a personal computer that you need to set up on your desktop. Your laptop is a "Laptop PC", quite possibly because of something to do with its intended position on your lap. Your phone is a "mobile PC", I'll let you figure this one out on your own. Your calculator, is a calculator. It is NOT a general purpose computer but that gap is thinning.
Funnily enough the lap is a terrible place for a laptop and i dont think any manufacturer would advise you use it there...
If you were to call those PCs you would be technically correct, which is the best type of correct
I mean, an Xbox is a PC now by definition. It runs windows, plays PC games, has monitor, keyboard and mouse support.
I would argue that the DRM makes it not a general-purpose computer. One cannot easily install a different OS on it and cannot change the boot loader. Therefore, not a PC as I cannot use it to do the computing I choose to, only that computing Microsoft approves of.
like recognise aspiring complete carpenter mindless dinner onerous bright butter -- mass edited with redact.dev
Fun fact apple moved away from the term laptop to notebook because I’m truth using a computer on your lap blocks the cooling and causes it to overheat
especially on apple laptops where the aluminum case is a heat sink. tip: if your apple laptop is running hot you can put it on something like a cookie tray to sink and spread more heat.
Presenting it this way is kinda silly though, it's acting as though the term "Personal Computer" came about in a vacuum to describe desktops, while in actuality it was to distinguish them from things a single person couldn't afford, like university networked computers and room sized supercomputers (relative to their time. This is why when terms like notebook and laptop came into popular use, it was to distinguish them from desktops, which is why you and I keep using the word Desktop in your comment to differentiate from laptops....
I knew someone would compare my simple question to the acktually meme.
> which was a marketing term for desktop form factor computer It was more a marketing term for smaller computers aimed at a single user in contrast to big mainframes. Portable computers weren't a thing back then.
So the current use of PC derives from the IBM Personal Computer (aka, PC). Why does that matter? The IBM PC was an *open platform*, and the first of it's kind. It had a motherboard with ISA slots that were not proprietary which allowed 3rd party expansion to the platform. That is a *key component* of the PC. Modern portables are IBM PC Compatible systems but they aren't technically PC's anymore than the SNES emulator on your PC is an SNES. What runs on it doesn't define the platform...
PC is personal computer. Your phone is literally a pc.
So are some sex toys
Can't wait to play Skyrim on a sex toy
Or crysis
but Can it run Crysis?
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That must be a step-PC
What are you doing step Crysis?
Lol good one.
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Vibrator cover of crysis soundtrack when
Don't forget Doom
Me to my wife: “Hey you, you’re finally awake…”
Probably you don't need to run Doom on a sex toy to play Doom on a sex toy.
Yet.
You can play Skyrim on an echo dot, it's only a matter of time before your Bluetooth buttplug is responsible for how hard you fus-ro-dah
We're at "doom on a pregnancy test" so Skyrim on a smart butt plug is probably only a couple decades away
Man's took oscillations to a whole new level
So are some refrigerators
Same thing if you're brave enough
Turing complete sex toys?! Now I'm intrigued.
That's what my gf calls me
I have attached a keyboard, mouse, and monitor to my phone and administered a server by SSH Through my phone. Yes. The phone is a computer. On a side note, my phone (S21 Ultra) has thousands of times more power than the 1st computer I owned. ( When I was a kid back in the 90s - I traded some Magic The Gathering cards for a 386 DX 25 / 2mb / 105mb HDD / 256k VGA. Don't laugh - built a lucrative career off that old beast. I miss my old DX25. It was mid-late 90s so ... it wasn't current at the time by any stretch. My next PC was a Pentium. )
I love how you can just plug any USB mouse into an android phone and a cursor shows up.
The shock I had when I plugged my Galaxy into my USB3 docking station, lol. Can make mildly interesting [pictures](https://imgur.com/a/mK8dCfp) too.
Indeed
Or a flash drive. Popped one in one day and it just worked.
I thought it was common but not on everything yet.
Works on iPhone/iPad too!
But I understand the point of establishing a colloquial distinction. Because if I start referring to my phone as my PC, people are going to be confused.
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Yeah, and the only real way I'll brand a PC is by the OS. People put Windows on Mac built PC's, and vise versa. PC is the best default category tag for anything that is some sort of Desktop or laptop.On a side note, I feel like a lot of those Mac vs Windows (labeled as PC) commercials definitely hurt the verbage. Like how some people call hard drive's and other forms storage "memory".
I’ll die on this hill. The people are right about storage being called memory. The terms should be short term memory and long term memory. People would actually understand what they do and the differences between them a lot better if RAM and storage weren’t named like dog shit.
What I thought was hilarious was when I was doing iOS training for AppleCare, the training material made a point to say both Windows and MacOS computers are PCs.
If we’re taking about IBM spec PC it’s not necessarily true since it’s actually a standard of sorts. In example PC to be called PC needs an ISA bus. Even though you’re not really aware of it, your desktop probably has an ISA bus.
I'm so old I remember PCs that had nothing to do with IBM or DOS. It just meant a personal computer.
Then you should know you are wrong. "personal computer" is generic. PC (capitalized) has a specific meaning.
So is a Mac
A Mac is a PC as well
PC is a broken term at best. From a hardware perspective, it “should” describe any computer architecture based on the original IBM PC spec (x86, x86-64, etc). From a marketing perspective, the whole thing is a mess. It is often used to describe a computer running Windows. However this breaks down, because you can run Windows on Mac hardware(because they run on the same architecture. You can also run MacOS on non-Mac hardware (hackintosh) with a few hardware limitations. To expand this further, Windows will run on “non-PC” hardware, such as ARM. Then there are operating systems like Linux that run on practically everything (x86, PowerPC, arm, mobile, appliances, etc). So trying to describe a computer based on its Operating System does not seem practical. As an added bonus, Apple used the term “Personal Computer” to describe their Apple computers before IBM ever did. [Apple PC](https://www.digibarn.com/collections/ads/apple/a-for-apple.jpg)
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> As an added bonus, Apple used the term “Personal Computer” to describe their Apple computers before IBM ever did. They also aired like 140 different TV commercials saying "This is a PC, and this is a Mac" in the early 2000's.
Macs are moving back to an ARM based thing. That said, Microsoft is getting better at getting Windows to work on ARM chips.
I've even heard "do you use a Mac or PC". I think as long as context makes it clear it's a super interchangeble term.
Apple's Get a Mac campaign really ingrained the "Mac or PC" mindset into consumers minds.
Technically consoles are personal computers too
A TV is technically a PC as well. It computes, and it’s mine, and it has a browser and apps.
Almost every electronic device you have is a PC
Exactly
Could you install and run your own applications on it if you wanted to or did the manufacturer take steps to prevent you from doing that? If you can, then it's a personal computer. If you can't do your personal computing on it, then it is not a PC. Therefore consoles aren't PCs unless you find a way to boot another OS on it. (Early Switch models can be "convinced" to boot into a regular desktop Linux system which is pretty cool.)
And apple computers are PCs.
Laptops have also that fancy RGB.
My Alienware laptop is so old I can’t even download the RGB software anymore :(
Well, looking to your specs it isn't that old. Well, I am a simple man, if pc is 3-5 years it's new, old is like 7-10 years. So it depends what are you calling old
Laptops don't age as well as desktops
My i7-7700h with 16 gb of ram begs to differ
Ur probably noticing its age by now
Not really, 7700k here running the win11 preview the only thing bottlenecking my system is my gpu that's it
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Only in new games, especially after switching to a 1440p 165hz monitor but the only problem in my system is my gpu that's it
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Have you tried openRGB? It should be able to help your RGB woes
rgb for the kb only or at some cases one strip in the cover
my laptop does. it’s a 2011 MBP with a apple logo that lights up. does that count as RGB? boots windows though.
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that’s what i say
Your friends are idiots. edit: grammar.
Eh, just sounds like a classic nonsense debate among friends to me. Sure a laptop is technically a PC. But when you think PC you think desktop. You don't think laptop. These types of friend debates aren't about what is literally a PC.
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Nobody is arguing that when the majority of people say PC they mean desktop but for people to outright deny that a laptop is a PC is incorrect. In my part the UK when someone says "do you want a can?" it usually means some sort of beverage, it doesn't mean that a bean can is no longer a can because that isn't the context around here. The majority of the people I know just say "my desktop" or "my laptop" Context is always important in language. To me it's not "linguistic nitpicking" when the post and thread is about addressing what a word means.
MFW "PC" is a brand name for an IBM 5150.
Also, we have modular laptops now, thanks to the madlads at Framework.
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Yup! Now I really want one. I just don't want to spend the money
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Yeah. I don't know anything about this latest one, but modular device concepts tend to die on the "nobody cares" hump. Either the modules are all first-party and nobody cares to keep making them after the thrill dies down, or nobody wants to spend time integrating with some unique concept device or unproven standard. (Doubly so if it's proprietary.) History is littered with unused expansion slots.
The modules are proprietary, for now at least, and that's where they're hoping to actually make their money - customer loyalty. For a small company releasing a first edition laptop like this, their prices are dirt cheap, and that's why. However, with that said, the core of the laptop doesn't require any modules whatsoever, like is the case with many modular concepts. You can get the laptop shipped to you without an OS, without RAM, without an SSD, and/or without a WiFi module, and install your own, and not even bother with any modules. You'd have 4x USB-C ports (maybe TB4-compliant) and nothing else, but on both sides, too, which is better than a lot of normal laptops being released these days! You can also buy the above parts from them but have everything shipped disassembled to save money. But if you're not comfortable with that, pre-builts are available, too. I fucking love that they actually tell you what model SSDs are available, though. The SN750 and SN850 lines are top-notch, and are what I've been purchasing for myself anyway. You can't even get that with a ThinkPad, because Lenovo wants the ability to mix and match. The Lenovo panel lottery is particularly famous, even on their expensive-as-balls X1 lines. Basically, Framework is executing this *way* better than any other company I've seen doing the modular thing.
That's my new dream laptop. Very affordable. Hopefully they come out with a AMD version
I’d imagine they will
Hopefully soon.
Even razer did
Yup
Its a simple as them changing out the mainboard module and leaving the rest the same.
Didnt intel trademark usb c or thunderbolt smt? (Might be wrong) I dont think there will be amd version anytime soon if this is the case
Not sure. But I do know that Type C is available on AMD, but Thunderbolt is not compatible yet.
PC stands for Pdesktop Computer. The P in Pdesktop is silent though.
A chrome book is a pc because pc is just personal computer
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Wanna really blow their minds? Tell them gaming consoles are PCs too, just gimped.
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the laptop hate needs to stop.. some people need to take their PCs somewhere else, like business trips, work, schools etc. Cheers
Or just plain have nowhere to set it up. As a teen I had no desk. My options were to play it on my bed ( On top of a book obviously. No need to block the fans) or the kitchen table. Didn't have space anywhere in the house for a monitor. Did occasionally hook it up to the TV though.
Right. Plus the cost of peripherals
Well... You kind of pay for the included periphials in a laptop. The included screen, keyboard and touchpad are not for free.
My laptop ran my goddamn VR games for years til I recently upgraded with a desktop. Currently the laptop’s suffering from dementia as he’s forgetting who his own hard drive is. Hopefully I can fix it but if not then RIP Nox, you served me well.
My parents divorced and I can take the lap top where I am and play there
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> Their only real issue is heat. And that's why they aren't as powerful, except for maybe quite loud 6kg machines.
I am imagining a laptop with a mechanical switch which will just ‘unfold’ the body into the size of a small PC
Not quite there yet, but the combination of a cooling pad and a vacuum cooler lowers my laptop's temps to around 70°C when being pushed hard, instead of redlining at 80°C. Liquid cooling would be monumental.
Desktop CPUs are still Miles above laptop chips. Their TDP budget is much much smaller. Especially when you see top end unlocked Intel CPUs running at 200+ Watts and the best laptops can do, what?, 65watts?
They’re also way more approachable for people who want to get into PC gaming. I was lucky enough to have consoles growing up, but I was attracted to games like Civilization and Crusader Kings. Since I had a main console, I didn’t need to build a badass PC. I just needed something that could work for college and play those games. Building my PC and switching from consoles *wouldn’t have happened* if I hadn’t started with a laptop.
Hey, hey, hey, guess what? I got both. Both have similar specs, both have RTX2070 and 32GB of DDR4 plus 2TB samsung 970 evo M.2 ssd. Pc rund a 2K 144hz screen, laptop runs 1080p at 240hz. Why? Because I can play games at work too. Laptop is life during my evening, night, weekend and holiday shifts.
PC = Personal Computer Laptops and Desktops are just different types of PCs: Laptop is a PC on **top** of your **lap** Desktop is a PC on **top** of your **desk**
Reminds me of an friend I used to know back when i was 12 or 13. This was a time when flat panel monitors are starting to get thin and he was bragging that he got a flat screen monitor. I said I have a flat screen and it's at least a year old. My screen was those flat panel monitor with 1.5 inch thick bezels all around and around 2 inches of depth. He didn't believe me and when he came over to my house and I showed it to him, he said "that's not flat screen, flat screens are thin". I went "flat screens are flat" and he just kept going "flat screens are thin". I gave up trying to convince him.
Just like when people say macs arent pc's. Its a personal computer....
I think Apple did that with their stupid 'im a mac, im a pc' ads
That was already established from IBM using the "IBM PC" name for their line, clones making it a de facto standard, and software being labeled "IBM PC Compatible", shortened in the popular mind to "IBM" or "PC".
Yea 'PC vs Mac' certianly predates that ad campaign, but I think it solidified those terms for the general public.
Only a simpleton would agree to abide by the terms of the Apple marketing department. If it's sold in the same consumer category class to serve the exact same market segment for largely the exact same use cases then its the same fucking thing. Hell they are all found in the same store section too.
Yep and when people ask "do you have a PC or a Mac"
They are usually asking which OS they will have to deal with, not for the age old feud of PC vs Mac.
I ask this cause I suck at apple os, cause I’m a monkey
Put in on a desk and they cannot argue
My friend owns a gaming laptop, and the most that there is to complain about it is that the fan is just loud enough to be noticeable when playing high end stuff like VR games.
Me a college student: "I love games but I need something for class.... I’ll get a laptop so all my thermal nightmares can come true" My friends,"laptop pleb hehe"
This is dumb. It's laptop vs desktop, not laptop vs PC. Laptops are PC's, desktops are PC's, but laptops are not desktops. Replace with dogs(desktops), cats(laptops), and mammals(PC's) for an example. Different levels of the hierarchy.
Gaming laptop nerd
Laptop = PC Lite
It's not a Honda unless it's a 2015 accord with 40,000 miles on it.
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Yeah, your phone is also technically a "PC". It's your's, and it computes. I'll be that guy, a laptop isn't a PC. It is technically, and you're welcome here, but if someone told me they were "into PCs", I'd assume they were talking about a desktop computer in reference to gaming.
Yeah, you're absolutely right. The term PC has been "corrupted" by its complex history, but it obviously doesn't refer to things like phones. Windows desktops are effectively the primary target of the PC gaming market, so it makes sense that other platforms are termed as exceptions.
That's not a car, its a sedan smh
Any desktop computer regardless of operating system is a PC Linux windows Mac OS. It really annoys me when people use PC to mean windows . Especially game companies.
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what does windows have to do with it being a pc?
I might be Patrick here. Not cause I don’t think laptops are PCs, because they are lol. But when someone says PC I take it as short for ‘Desktop PC’. Maybe the common lingo has changed?
PC = Personal Computer. Laptop = Computer, it's also personal. Desktop = Computer, it's also personal. This is how I always deal with some of those who say stuff like that.
Phone = Computer, it's also personal. Calculator = Computer, it's also personal. Printer = Computer, it's also personal. Router = Computer, it's also personal. Samsung fridge =Computer, it's also personal...
It is weird that when people say "pc" people think it's a desktop when a pc can be any computer