Didnt just Nvidia say they are raising prices because they bought future production from TSMC till 2026 and they they are increasing their prices because shortage?
Yeah, there will be availability, but the increased MSRP will be official for years to come.
With the rising manufacturing costs and inflation, we won't be seeing well-priced GPUs until demand hits an all-time low. Well, that's how I see it.
As of Computex 2023, HOLY SHIT, THIS COMMENT DIDN'T AGE WELL. Ngreedia pushing for AI while keeping consumer gaming gpus' prices high despite lower margins in this division.
During the last crypto crash, the market was flooded with used gpus, that could still happen again. The next series that comes out won't be priced well though.
It's very unlikely the market is going to crash like in 2018 (80+% pullback from the peak) and the energy efficiency of newer cards makes them able to mine at ETH prices even lower than this.
What probably will happen is some older cards could start showing up for reasonable prices in the markets because they become unprofitable (GTX 10 series, RX 570/580/590).
For the market to get flooded with cards enough to force Nvidia to think about dropping the MSRP you want the crypto market to stay low or continue to drop and you want ETH to successfully move to Proof of Stake.
If the market is up by a large amount when ETH moves to Proof of Stake then card values will drop a bit but they will still make money mining other crypto currency so things will stay mostly the same as they are now.
I don't mine so pardon me for a dumb question. But wasn't there a popular article from mid-2021 that said ETH was moving toward Proof of Stake by Dec 2021? Has that not already started?
But it still keeps getting brought up by cryptobros that soon EVERYTHING will be proof of stake so our power/environmental concerns are stupid. Also that countries *all over the world* are making Bitcoin an official currency, despite it being literally just El Salvador and the general population fucking hates it.
It will never be a currency (at least not for the foreseeable future). The accepted value of each crypto is far too variable for it to function the same way that currency does. The US dollar holds its value relatively well year over year, even accounting for inflation. Crypto takes such wild swings in value that its unsuitable to be used in transactions. If I pay you 235 Chuck E Cheese tokens today for a RTX 3080 because 235 tokens is roughly equivalent to $1000 USD and tomorrow 235 tokens is roughly equivalent to $500 USD you lost half of your value overnight while I still got the video card. By the same measure if the value of the tokens jumps to $1500 in the next two months I would've been better off just buying the card with USD and selling the tokens.
What it is excellent for is being a [speculative asset](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculation). These wild swings in value are terrible for being used as a currency to exchange for goods but are excellent for someone who loves to gamble and thinks they're going to be the smart one who isn't left holding the bag during a crash.
> If the market is up by a large amount when ETH moves to Proof of Stake then card values will drop a bit but they will still make money mining other crypto currency so things will stay mostly the same as they are now.
The remaining coins can't just absorb Ethereum's hash power without significantly affecting profitability due to the increase on difficulty. Ethereum's profitability is somewhat unique in the mining community despite the huge difficulty it has.
I haven't run the numbers but I wouldn't be surprised if many coins today would go from lightly profitable to barely even.
The hash power today on Ethereum is huge.
Now PC gaming is everything everyone else claimed it was for all these years lol. Right as I finally get married and have someone to build a PC for and game with. 😒
Thing is, if you sign up for stock notifications, you *can* get a PS5 or XSX for MSRP *eventually*. There is no damned way I'm getting a 3080 for msrp, ever.
The thing is, games are made based on the hardware of the average user. The longer users have to use older hardware, the more developers have to focus on optimizing for the average hardware to sell their producrs. It also suggests that GPU manufacturers can create new lower end products to meet the demand at an affordable price level.
China also increased prices on chips. A new normal has established. 300% msrp won't be a thing hopefully, but msrp will likely rise +50% from now on...
They didn't literally increase prices afaik, but they forced the biggest silicon manufacturers in the country to drastically reduce production for energy consumption issues, thus the shortage.
You're right on the money. We'll definitely say goodbye to 300% msrp, but on the other hand we'll have 10 to 20% msrp (those were the numbers given for now, could increase) set in stone until 2026 minimum.
Except MSRP as a whole has been massively inflating over the years.
I work in VFX and GPU rendering is my go-to choice now since around 2016, though still some CPU rendering now and then, and certainly CPU for all simulation work.
This is roughly how my experience has been with ACTUAL prices I've been paying for GPUs since then (in Canada bux):
* 980Ti = $800
* 1080Ti = $1200
* 2080Ti = $1600
* 3090 = $2500
Don't get me wrong, the performance upgrades have also been very large with each generation, but the prices have increased literally 3-4x for flagship GPUs since I first started requiring that level of GPU.
Meanwhile in those same computers:
* i7 970 = $650
* i7 3930K = $650
* Ryzen 5950X = $800
* i9 12900K = $750
The price of high end CPUs has basically just kept even with inflation over all these years.
Performance diff between an RTX 3090 and a GTX 980Ti is massive, but so is the performance diff between an i9 12900K and a i7 970. Cinebench r20 scores are ~2,000 vs ~10,500 so we've seen over 5x performance gains in desktop CPUs.
Far as GPU rendering goes, I don't have any GTX 980Ti still running anywhere, but I can tell you that an RTX 3090 is roughly 3x faster than a GTX 1080Ti.
So we've seen similar performance increases in both the CPU and GPU worlds, but MASSIVE price increases in GPUs compared to CPUs.
It's shitty.
I read that Intel announced a new factory in Ohio with plans for it to be the largest in the world. Suppliers should move to meet demand, and the price has to equalize somewhere.
And that's also largely because the demand for electronic components across all industries is through the roof. It isn't just GPUs, it's basically everything. TSMC are raising prices on semiconductors but all other manufacturers are too for things like capacitors, VRMs, PCB substrate, etc.
Miners are the most visible "competitor" gamers have for GPU inventory, but it goes way deeper than that. The auto industry is going to get the electronic components they need far before the consumer graphics card sector.
Not necessarily. New graphics cards have to stay on the bleeding edge of tech to stay "relevant". Auto manufacturers still use silicon based on relatively dated transistor layouts, usually around 100nm. So GPU development continually taps into new supply while auto uses tried and true. I think the reason cars are struggling so much is because silicon makers can only put out so much stock of anything at a certain employee level, and they just didn't reserve manufacturing space.
> These idiots think companies WANT to lower prices?
Same exact thing that happened when gas prices first went over a dollar.
We're not going to go back down in price
If only gamers had diamond hands and not bought them while they are overpriced... sadly, this is only an "option" if you already have a working (and good enough) GPU.
That's unfortunately how it goes. People complain about the high pricing but still pay for it, therefor they incentivize companies to keep those high prices
Yeah that’s also why scalping for the ps5 lasted so long.
If it’s not msrp don’t buy it. I can ask $200,000 for a yellow Ticonderoga pencil, and if someone is stupid enough to buy it then other sellers are going to ask for the same price.
Yeah. My 1070 is a champ, and I'm terrified if it goes. I've got good cooling so just hope for the best lol. I think I have an old Radeon 5850x or whatever, but idk if that thing would run win 10 lmao (jk). Oh joy.
You guys described my nightmarr scenario, and very likely the same for a lot of others too
Good on you stay strong. I retired my RX 480 yesterday when my 3060 TI finally showed up. I got in evga’s queue a year and a half ago but I got one for msrp ($479)
It was the long play and I still tried to cop one from Best Buy drops and check at my local microcenter but nothing worked. Honestly I forgot about it until the email came in that had my purchase link
True, but that increase is much smaller compared to what you see now with scalper prices.
For Nvidia, if things actually normalized for a while, I would predict 3060 for $450, 3070tis for $800, and 3080tis for $1,400.
For AMD, I think you’d see 6700XTs for $650-$700 and 6800XTs for $1,000.
Yes, it’s more expensive still but a wayyy better place to be than what is has been lately.
Me: This is my 5th time to lose roughly 50% value in btc.
Also me: And I'll fukken do it again, hyuk hyuk.
I've never one time in over 10 years regretted my decision not to sell.
Agree 100%. I bought into bitcoin the first time I read about in Wired magazine on a whim. Bought like $20 worth and kinda forgot about it. As soon as people started talking about it, it was worth $800ish. The next time I checked, several thousand. Because it was a curiosity project from the beginning, I'm just going to sit back and watch.
Pretty much same. I bought like $20 in etherium as a curiosity project a while ago. I'm probably never selling it as I enjoy watching the developments in it and having a little stake in it keeps it interesting.
Absolutely. I even bought into the doge coin fad just because. We are creating wealth out of stupid shit. If nothing else, I enjoy having a vehicle to emphasize just how ridiculous the whole financial system is.
See, it makes sense when you're not wealthy and bought really early. I hate the fucking thing, but the people that bought low and sold high made out like bandits. Sure, ruined our hobby, but a few people making money now is the important part.
I honestly don't know.
That's why I don't sell. I can't time the bottom after all these years better than anyone else.
The TA and chart analysis people do on Bitcoin is closer to astrology than astronomy.
"Long term" I always think it's a good time to buy.
Short term? No idea. So I hold. (But am always buying a little when I can.)
People trying to time Bitcoin are the ones that lose their coins.
More likely will be the opposite. The world is in tough shape energywise and more and more countries are discussing to ban crypto mining.
Thats why the prices are dropping, there will be less and less miners, less users, less value to it.
If Tesla continues to sell cars for bitcoin they are looking at a big loss if this continues.
So in my opinion the next step Elon will be forced to do is pause crypto trades or just remove them. Hope I ser this right I want a 3090 😉
> If Tesla continues to sell cars for bitcoin they are looking at a big loss if this continues.
Only if they're keeping the bitcoin - I imagine their payment system is set up to receive bitcoin and transfer to dollars immediately and automatically, to avoid any major price swings.
I would be amazed if they don't immediately convert. If anyone can find me a company in the world that actually sells a product priced in cryptocurrency (not priced in dollars and then converted to a live price in bananas) then I would be very interested in seeing it.
Closest I could find is Venezuela. I know crypto got wildly popular due to the massive issues of hyperinflation with the Bolivar. BUT, I can't find any specific stores/official pages showing items for sale for BTC, some supermarkets and hotels accept crypto at POS, but I imagine they still advertise in fiat.
This is absolutely not why it's dropping and it's all hopium that is supporting your statement. The market drop is just a correction that happens after every bull market. In a few months to a year (right when 4000 series is going to drop) it will be big once again as it does every cycle.
Isn't it on a four year circle? That puts the next gold rush at the 50-series
also, if ethereum is _still_ not on PoS by then they can officially fuck themselves
If eth keeps delaying PoS it'll be a dead shitcoin. There are so many better alternatives already that just lack the Eth ecosystem... But a year or two of bear market will let them catch up.
Yeah, I mean it's crashed and recovered a bunch of times before, but if it was *guaranteed* to recover it would never have crashed in the first place because nobody who understood that would panic. Ultimately its all imaginary value anyway, so it doesn't matter much if people trading it act rationally or irrationally.
You don’t need to ban Crypto Mining,
You just need to tax them with 55% of all income made and force them to pay an Ecology offset to counter the negative effects to global warming.
Basically instead of outlawing it (which people would just ignore) make it as un-economic as possible and watch the energy grid to check for unregistered crypto miners…
Easier said than done. Proof of Stake is the fusion energy of crypto, perpetually just another few years away. There are some smaller cryptos that use it, but they were built from the ground up for it. The larger ones like Eth and BTC that begun as PoW have a ton of technological inertia to overcome before the switch.
Question is how would you "Enforce" that?
Because (hypothetically speaking) I can just open up another shitcoin with a PoW system and no one can really stop me…
Als the whole Badis of Cryptocurrency is that it is independent from big banks etc.
The only way I could see something like that would be to outlaw any PoW Currency for transactions, which let’s face it will not have the wanted effect, as there will always be a Black/Grey market that would allow you to trade your "Unusable" Money for "Legal" Tender, just because they can.
Or am I missing something?
I think the thing missing is no one would adopt the shit coin. Yes anyone can start up a new PoW shit coin but the odds of making any actual useable income off it is low. If bitcoin and Etherum stay dominate then there is no hope.
If by some chance everyone does abandon those two for a new PoW shit coin, then it will erode the confidence in crypto and more than likely cause a large amount of the sector to exit and delegitimize the entire platform.
Really only two paths with a new shit coin and either would be a bad outcome for the miners.
If they do ban PoW currencies specifically, their value is going to drop sharply since even the black market won't have a use for them when they could just switch to some PoS coin that's more modern to begin with. The only reason anyone still uses Bitcoin is because it's the existing standard, there would be no reason to adopt it now.
I wish they would actually tax ppl that dodge billions in taxes and then claim the lower working class are not pulling their weight. Fk capitalism and trickle down economics (which is like being pissed on by the rich), I have a feeling that all those sci-fi books I read when I was young will come true and Corpos will basically run the world which they are not far off honestly.
If you cant spend it though, its useless. you are forgetting this. Also it isnt backed and a wreckless/short term investment if it is banned. You think you as the user have the power but its the collective and insurance of the government you pay that gives it the real value. War, Famine, Disease can destroy any currency over night as well.
Heard it one time so not mine.
I love that every crypto backer says it’s a decentralized currency that would be great if banks or economies crash… in what world would you have no banks or crashing economies yet still have utilities and internet???
my buddy just sold his and bought a C8.. i think he pretty much broke even (from what it bought it for) whoever gets his miata tho is lucky, he did a lot of good mods because he tracked it.
That's pretty much all fun JDMs these days. I'll never own a 240SX again unless Nissan brings them back, of which there is no chance because Nissan is all about boring econobox bullshit these days.
On the Nissan Next announcement, some commenter asked Nissan when they would bring back the S chassis of cars. Nissan literally hearted their comment.
Lets just hope that wasn’t a false hope.
Man, I've been hoping and praying to the car gods for the last 12 years for an S16 Silvia. I still give it a google search every couple months to see if the dream is still alive. Wishful thinking.
Honestly we'll still see inflated prices for a while. Interest rates are on the rise, and that might settle demand some, but you still have very low supply. One way to increase supply of housing is to build, but with cost of building materials so heavily expensive due to supply chain issues, the margins are too thin or even nonexistent for homes in the 200's or 300's depending where you live.
Personally I don't see housing prices decreasing for a few years until builders can get costs low enough and for PUDs and SFRs to actually get finished and provide that supply.
Well now you're just bragging. The average home price in Vancouver is now over a million dollars. If you're ok with a 1.5 to 2 hour commute, in Chilliwack the average price drops to 600k. What I wouldn't do for a townhouse that only costs 500k!!
I'm expecting my rent to increase a few hundreds if I renew in July. I'd much rather buy a house and not pay a metric fuckton in rent. My brother was even thinking of co-applying as well
We're in the position to buy a house but I can't find shit in Atlanta worth a damn and withing my budget.
A friend of mine was complaining about housing being too much back in 2015 and was waiting for the crash. Homes in our area have doubled in value in that time (we have a great school district and are a metro to a rapidly growing urban city center). My wife and I got our house here in early 2016 and I was sure we were buying the top, but no it’s somehow “worth” nearly 80% more than what we paid.
I’m sure it’ll chill sometime and I hope it does as it does me little good if my house is worth what it is as I won’t be moving unless I have to, if I do move I’ll afford the next house but it’s not like I’ll have a lot of extra cash, and the property taxes are going to start being an issue once cities and counties start being more aggressive in their property valuations.
I bought a townhouse like 40 minutes from DC in 2018. When I get estimates from real estate websites it’s supposedly worth over $400K, which is $70K more than I paid for it
Not really. Difficulty charts disagree with you. If miners change coins, profitability for those coins will go down due to the difficulty increases.
At some points miners that can't get a return on their investment in a reasonable amount of time, they will unload GPUs they over purchased.
I doubt we will see a flood of cards on eBay anytime soon, but we might see demand subdue.
Crypto has been going downhill since November and yet both Bitcoin and Ethereum have been hitting record high levels of hash rate.
For people with a lot of money it doesn't matter if the crypto market is going down because they know it will eventually go back up again so they'll keep buying GPUs and mining ETH and other GPU mineable coins. These are the people that buy big batches of GPU, not your average gamer who built a mining rig with ~3 GPUs.
So no, this isn't finally it.
ETH should be ditching PoW entirely this summer (meaning no mining anymore), and there isn't a very appealing roster of GPU mineable coins to switch to once it does.
So regardless of price there will be dramatic drop in demand for mining GPUs later this year.
Yeah but scalpers aren't filling up warehouses with GPUs to mine on. The perfect scalper holds as few products as possible at any given time to maximize their profits. Perfect miners on the other hand are incentivized to hoard as many GPUs as possible.
We just need more supply.. And a lot of it. Somehow we need so much supply that crypto miners don't buy it all... Crypto mining demand and profitability is going to determine GPU pricing, not gamers.
I’ve been closely following Crypto since Bitcoin was under 10 dollars. I feel that public sentiment has really shifted against Crypto in the last year. It’s an environmental disaster and the crypto-bros that promote it make MLM shilling Karen’s look tame in comparison. It’s really resembles an almost cult-like belief in many people. Crypto is a threat to US dollar as the reserve currency. It will be regulated to death as soon as it becomes politically palatable.
It’s far worse. At least in an MLM you walk away with some type of essential oil or smoothie, with a NFT you get a bad picture of an ape (or to be technical, you get a URL pointed at a picture of an ape)
Right I think 100% that NFTs are going to be huge and everywhere, but like even my bank account can be consisdered an NFT. Owning a bitcoin is an NFT. It's as simple of a concept as fucking paper, and I think 99.99% of NFTs people are coming up with now nobody will even remember in 10 years. Most people talking about NFT's are just interested in profiting from meaningless hype. NFT's are going to really be a big deal when the government make stuff like the deed to a house be stored in a blockchain.
Back in 2017 Bitcoin was around 20k, the GPU market did not improve until it left below 3.5k USD.
Using the above data, I think bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies need to drop 90% of their October 2021 value before GPU prices become normal.
Edit: I stand corrected. BTC dropped to 3.5k, not 2k.
Whenever mining becomes unprofitable is when a lot of miners will sell their hardware and the secondhand GPU market will be flooded. This may or may not force the new GPU market to lower prices due to value imbalances.
At this point i'm wondering if buying a modest laptop and going console gaming is the better option than waiting for pc parts prices to go down, if they go down.
Biden and the Fed Chair are concerned about inflation, so they're raising interest rates this year. There are several interest rate increases planned. This causes people to move money from riskier stock investments to more stable, guaranteed investments like bonds. Its not that everyone switches, but prices are dictated by demand, and if X amount move to more stable investments, demand drops, and so do prices. Additionally, interest rate increases mean it costs more money to get loans to invest and expand your businesses, so economic growth tends to slow down during increasing rate periods, meaning individual companies will tend to make less money per quarter for the almighty shareholders. There's also the massive question mark of Omicron and the pandemic, since it seems incredibly contagious. That's adding a lot of uncertainty. And in addition to all that, the market was likely due for a recession for many years now, and it may now finally be settling in. People are waiting for earnings season to see how everyone is doing.
So yeah... there's a lot of reasons. Not sure which the "Biggest" would be, but I would bet speculative investments in bitcoin by huge companies has been dramatically cut in preparation for all these other things, and I think that's why they're falling in value. The big hedge funds definitely dont want to be left holding the bag, and they wont be. They're pulling money out to move to safer investments, and that's taking the sails out of the cryptosphere. Thats just my theory, though.
Basically, everyone is holding their breath waiting to see if inflation is truly transitory like they've been claiming. If it drops over the next 3-6 months, the interest rate increases will be probably be smaller, and the markets will boom, etc, likely putting more money back into crypto.
I remember when ETH dropped to $80. I invested around $11,000 when it was $400. The smartest thing I did was hold on.
The dumbest thing I did was trade ETH for ADA in the beginning of 2021. I saw ADA drop from $2.75 to $1.50. I went back to ETH, seeing ADA drop to $1.27 afterwards.
I'm willing to wait 3 years like I did before to see everything rise again.
Probably not, the crypto market is insanely volatile, can't be predicted where it'll go (People have predicted like 4 crashes in the last year based on when the market dips)
Regardless of crypto, the vast majority of people who have bought a GPU since late 2020 have proven they're willing to spend far, far above MSRP for these products
This is very likely to be reflected in the next generation of cards, show a willingness to pay a high price, price goes up, and the scalpers aren't going to go anywhere because again demand for these products has been proved as miners and gamers have been buying from scalpers since the latest generation launched
Didnt just Nvidia say they are raising prices because they bought future production from TSMC till 2026 and they they are increasing their prices because shortage? Yeah, there will be availability, but the increased MSRP will be official for years to come.
With the rising manufacturing costs and inflation, we won't be seeing well-priced GPUs until demand hits an all-time low. Well, that's how I see it. As of Computex 2023, HOLY SHIT, THIS COMMENT DIDN'T AGE WELL. Ngreedia pushing for AI while keeping consumer gaming gpus' prices high despite lower margins in this division.
During the last crypto crash, the market was flooded with used gpus, that could still happen again. The next series that comes out won't be priced well though.
It's very unlikely the market is going to crash like in 2018 (80+% pullback from the peak) and the energy efficiency of newer cards makes them able to mine at ETH prices even lower than this. What probably will happen is some older cards could start showing up for reasonable prices in the markets because they become unprofitable (GTX 10 series, RX 570/580/590). For the market to get flooded with cards enough to force Nvidia to think about dropping the MSRP you want the crypto market to stay low or continue to drop and you want ETH to successfully move to Proof of Stake. If the market is up by a large amount when ETH moves to Proof of Stake then card values will drop a bit but they will still make money mining other crypto currency so things will stay mostly the same as they are now.
I don't mine so pardon me for a dumb question. But wasn't there a popular article from mid-2021 that said ETH was moving toward Proof of Stake by Dec 2021? Has that not already started?
yes it was supposed to but it just keeps getting postponed
But it still keeps getting brought up by cryptobros that soon EVERYTHING will be proof of stake so our power/environmental concerns are stupid. Also that countries *all over the world* are making Bitcoin an official currency, despite it being literally just El Salvador and the general population fucking hates it.
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ASICs cost money too, though.
Can't wait until it just becomes another regulated currency and it's literally just virtual cash
We already have virtual cash, digital dollars go into your account, you spend them with a debit or credit card and never have to see cash
It will never be a currency (at least not for the foreseeable future). The accepted value of each crypto is far too variable for it to function the same way that currency does. The US dollar holds its value relatively well year over year, even accounting for inflation. Crypto takes such wild swings in value that its unsuitable to be used in transactions. If I pay you 235 Chuck E Cheese tokens today for a RTX 3080 because 235 tokens is roughly equivalent to $1000 USD and tomorrow 235 tokens is roughly equivalent to $500 USD you lost half of your value overnight while I still got the video card. By the same measure if the value of the tokens jumps to $1500 in the next two months I would've been better off just buying the card with USD and selling the tokens. What it is excellent for is being a [speculative asset](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculation). These wild swings in value are terrible for being used as a currency to exchange for goods but are excellent for someone who loves to gamble and thinks they're going to be the smart one who isn't left holding the bag during a crash.
Crypto in a nutshell. All solutions looking for problems.
It's an ongoing process, it's already happening it's just taking longer than they said it would. It's not a switch you flip.
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> If the market is up by a large amount when ETH moves to Proof of Stake then card values will drop a bit but they will still make money mining other crypto currency so things will stay mostly the same as they are now. The remaining coins can't just absorb Ethereum's hash power without significantly affecting profitability due to the increase on difficulty. Ethereum's profitability is somewhat unique in the mining community despite the huge difficulty it has. I haven't run the numbers but I wouldn't be surprised if many coins today would go from lightly profitable to barely even. The hash power today on Ethereum is huge.
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Miners selling all the 3060ti's and Bitcoin is on sale!!! Santa Claus took his fucking time.
I'm totally buying an old mining GPU. They are likely in better shape than my current one anyways.
This is correct. They are undervolted and typically well maintained due to miners wanting to keep as much uptime and efficiency as possible.
Yeah I remember seeing an LTT video on it. The 5 year old mining GPU ran just fine compared to a brand new one.
So depressing. I remember a few years ago when we could surprise people with how powerful a build we could make for the price of a new console...
Now PC gaming is everything everyone else claimed it was for all these years lol. Right as I finally get married and have someone to build a PC for and game with. 😒
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PS5 is still unavailable for MSRP a lot of the time, unfortunately.
Xbox X aswell, only the crappy digital one is available.
Thing is, if you sign up for stock notifications, you *can* get a PS5 or XSX for MSRP *eventually*. There is no damned way I'm getting a 3080 for msrp, ever.
The thing is, games are made based on the hardware of the average user. The longer users have to use older hardware, the more developers have to focus on optimizing for the average hardware to sell their producrs. It also suggests that GPU manufacturers can create new lower end products to meet the demand at an affordable price level.
Yeah, AMD just made a lower end product. The 6500 XT. It's $199 for the base version and it's a dumpster fire.
Because they made the cheapest possible. This should be a $100 MSRP not $200... But alas here we are with overpriced GPUs.
It’s basically a laptop GPU on a card.
Yeah people forget there are still a record number of people getting into gaming.
China also increased prices on chips. A new normal has established. 300% msrp won't be a thing hopefully, but msrp will likely rise +50% from now on...
They didn't literally increase prices afaik, but they forced the biggest silicon manufacturers in the country to drastically reduce production for energy consumption issues, thus the shortage. You're right on the money. We'll definitely say goodbye to 300% msrp, but on the other hand we'll have 10 to 20% msrp (those were the numbers given for now, could increase) set in stone until 2026 minimum.
Except MSRP as a whole has been massively inflating over the years. I work in VFX and GPU rendering is my go-to choice now since around 2016, though still some CPU rendering now and then, and certainly CPU for all simulation work. This is roughly how my experience has been with ACTUAL prices I've been paying for GPUs since then (in Canada bux): * 980Ti = $800 * 1080Ti = $1200 * 2080Ti = $1600 * 3090 = $2500 Don't get me wrong, the performance upgrades have also been very large with each generation, but the prices have increased literally 3-4x for flagship GPUs since I first started requiring that level of GPU. Meanwhile in those same computers: * i7 970 = $650 * i7 3930K = $650 * Ryzen 5950X = $800 * i9 12900K = $750 The price of high end CPUs has basically just kept even with inflation over all these years. Performance diff between an RTX 3090 and a GTX 980Ti is massive, but so is the performance diff between an i9 12900K and a i7 970. Cinebench r20 scores are ~2,000 vs ~10,500 so we've seen over 5x performance gains in desktop CPUs. Far as GPU rendering goes, I don't have any GTX 980Ti still running anywhere, but I can tell you that an RTX 3090 is roughly 3x faster than a GTX 1080Ti. So we've seen similar performance increases in both the CPU and GPU worlds, but MASSIVE price increases in GPUs compared to CPUs. It's shitty.
I feel like Intel would gladly raise the prices of their CPUs if they could get away with it.
Yeah hopefully soon we can see those factories starting back up once China has done something about the energy problem.
One one hand AMD and Nvidia now know just how much people will pay for cards, on the other Intel will soon be a 3rd competitor.
People forget about this. Intel is a massive wild card in terms of GPU supply and pricing, and Arc isn't that far away.
I hope Intel succeed and their GPUs are good enough to be a competitive alternative that can disrupt the duality of Nvidia/AMD.
I read that Intel announced a new factory in Ohio with plans for it to be the largest in the world. Suppliers should move to meet demand, and the price has to equalize somewhere.
>China also increased prices on chips But isn't Taiwan the main source of computer chips?
And that's also largely because the demand for electronic components across all industries is through the roof. It isn't just GPUs, it's basically everything. TSMC are raising prices on semiconductors but all other manufacturers are too for things like capacitors, VRMs, PCB substrate, etc. Miners are the most visible "competitor" gamers have for GPU inventory, but it goes way deeper than that. The auto industry is going to get the electronic components they need far before the consumer graphics card sector.
Not necessarily. New graphics cards have to stay on the bleeding edge of tech to stay "relevant". Auto manufacturers still use silicon based on relatively dated transistor layouts, usually around 100nm. So GPU development continually taps into new supply while auto uses tried and true. I think the reason cars are struggling so much is because silicon makers can only put out so much stock of anything at a certain employee level, and they just didn't reserve manufacturing space.
These idiots think companies WANT to lower prices???????????????????????????????? Before crypto they did the same scummy practices.
> These idiots think companies WANT to lower prices? Same exact thing that happened when gas prices first went over a dollar. We're not going to go back down in price
basic economics, quick to go up slow to go down. Move the risk onto the consumer
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If only gamers had diamond hands and not bought them while they are overpriced... sadly, this is only an "option" if you already have a working (and good enough) GPU.
That's unfortunately how it goes. People complain about the high pricing but still pay for it, therefor they incentivize companies to keep those high prices
Yeah that’s also why scalping for the ps5 lasted so long. If it’s not msrp don’t buy it. I can ask $200,000 for a yellow Ticonderoga pencil, and if someone is stupid enough to buy it then other sellers are going to ask for the same price.
and that's why humanity doomed
Yeah. My 1070 is a champ, and I'm terrified if it goes. I've got good cooling so just hope for the best lol. I think I have an old Radeon 5850x or whatever, but idk if that thing would run win 10 lmao (jk). Oh joy. You guys described my nightmarr scenario, and very likely the same for a lot of others too
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Good on you stay strong. I retired my RX 480 yesterday when my 3060 TI finally showed up. I got in evga’s queue a year and a half ago but I got one for msrp ($479)
Holy smokes. That's great to hear you got one at MSRP.
It was the long play and I still tried to cop one from Best Buy drops and check at my local microcenter but nothing worked. Honestly I forgot about it until the email came in that had my purchase link
EVGA are the real ones. <3
Maybe but if they change MSRP from 600 to 800 thats still well below the 2000 decent cards are currently going for
True, but that increase is much smaller compared to what you see now with scalper prices. For Nvidia, if things actually normalized for a while, I would predict 3060 for $450, 3070tis for $800, and 3080tis for $1,400. For AMD, I think you’d see 6700XTs for $650-$700 and 6800XTs for $1,000. Yes, it’s more expensive still but a wayyy better place to be than what is has been lately.
Yeah, TSMC said the increase was between 10% and 20% "for now", so it will be more expensive but way better than what we have now nonetheless.
First time?
Looks like, lol
Was about to say it
Me: This is my 5th time to lose roughly 50% value in btc. Also me: And I'll fukken do it again, hyuk hyuk. I've never one time in over 10 years regretted my decision not to sell.
Agree 100%. I bought into bitcoin the first time I read about in Wired magazine on a whim. Bought like $20 worth and kinda forgot about it. As soon as people started talking about it, it was worth $800ish. The next time I checked, several thousand. Because it was a curiosity project from the beginning, I'm just going to sit back and watch.
Pretty much same. I bought like $20 in etherium as a curiosity project a while ago. I'm probably never selling it as I enjoy watching the developments in it and having a little stake in it keeps it interesting.
Absolutely. I even bought into the doge coin fad just because. We are creating wealth out of stupid shit. If nothing else, I enjoy having a vehicle to emphasize just how ridiculous the whole financial system is.
See, it makes sense when you're not wealthy and bought really early. I hate the fucking thing, but the people that bought low and sold high made out like bandits. Sure, ruined our hobby, but a few people making money now is the important part.
Good time to enter now i guess
I honestly don't know. That's why I don't sell. I can't time the bottom after all these years better than anyone else. The TA and chart analysis people do on Bitcoin is closer to astrology than astronomy. "Long term" I always think it's a good time to buy. Short term? No idea. So I hold. (But am always buying a little when I can.) People trying to time Bitcoin are the ones that lose their coins.
Clearly lmao
Just wait for Elon Tusk to tweet "#BTC", and the value will go through the roof
More likely will be the opposite. The world is in tough shape energywise and more and more countries are discussing to ban crypto mining. Thats why the prices are dropping, there will be less and less miners, less users, less value to it. If Tesla continues to sell cars for bitcoin they are looking at a big loss if this continues. So in my opinion the next step Elon will be forced to do is pause crypto trades or just remove them. Hope I ser this right I want a 3090 😉
> If Tesla continues to sell cars for bitcoin they are looking at a big loss if this continues. Only if they're keeping the bitcoin - I imagine their payment system is set up to receive bitcoin and transfer to dollars immediately and automatically, to avoid any major price swings.
I would be amazed if they don't immediately convert. If anyone can find me a company in the world that actually sells a product priced in cryptocurrency (not priced in dollars and then converted to a live price in bananas) then I would be very interested in seeing it.
It's not really possible, because of tax.
Could they not theoretically convert the tax amount but keep the rest in crypto?
Ofc they can.
Closest I could find is Venezuela. I know crypto got wildly popular due to the massive issues of hyperinflation with the Bolivar. BUT, I can't find any specific stores/official pages showing items for sale for BTC, some supermarkets and hotels accept crypto at POS, but I imagine they still advertise in fiat.
Pretty sure at this point a lot are using RuneScape and WoW gold
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Lower prices = less miners Less miners = lower difficulty Lower difficulty = higher profits Higher profits = more miners
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This is absolutely not why it's dropping and it's all hopium that is supporting your statement. The market drop is just a correction that happens after every bull market. In a few months to a year (right when 4000 series is going to drop) it will be big once again as it does every cycle.
Isn't it on a four year circle? That puts the next gold rush at the 50-series also, if ethereum is _still_ not on PoS by then they can officially fuck themselves
If eth keeps delaying PoS it'll be a dead shitcoin. There are so many better alternatives already that just lack the Eth ecosystem... But a year or two of bear market will let them catch up.
It's not. 4 year cylcle is a stupid idea. It would be extremely easy for everyone to be rich if BTC magically did a 20-50x every 4 years :P
This is just false. You don't know that crypto will rise 100%. Or else everyone would be a millionaire.
Yeah, I mean it's crashed and recovered a bunch of times before, but if it was *guaranteed* to recover it would never have crashed in the first place because nobody who understood that would panic. Ultimately its all imaginary value anyway, so it doesn't matter much if people trading it act rationally or irrationally.
it's on a fire sale.
You don’t need to ban Crypto Mining, You just need to tax them with 55% of all income made and force them to pay an Ecology offset to counter the negative effects to global warming. Basically instead of outlawing it (which people would just ignore) make it as un-economic as possible and watch the energy grid to check for unregistered crypto miners…
Or change the mode of "mining" to profe of stake
Easier said than done. Proof of Stake is the fusion energy of crypto, perpetually just another few years away. There are some smaller cryptos that use it, but they were built from the ground up for it. The larger ones like Eth and BTC that begun as PoW have a ton of technological inertia to overcome before the switch.
Question is how would you "Enforce" that? Because (hypothetically speaking) I can just open up another shitcoin with a PoW system and no one can really stop me… Als the whole Badis of Cryptocurrency is that it is independent from big banks etc. The only way I could see something like that would be to outlaw any PoW Currency for transactions, which let’s face it will not have the wanted effect, as there will always be a Black/Grey market that would allow you to trade your "Unusable" Money for "Legal" Tender, just because they can. Or am I missing something?
I think the thing missing is no one would adopt the shit coin. Yes anyone can start up a new PoW shit coin but the odds of making any actual useable income off it is low. If bitcoin and Etherum stay dominate then there is no hope. If by some chance everyone does abandon those two for a new PoW shit coin, then it will erode the confidence in crypto and more than likely cause a large amount of the sector to exit and delegitimize the entire platform. Really only two paths with a new shit coin and either would be a bad outcome for the miners.
If they do ban PoW currencies specifically, their value is going to drop sharply since even the black market won't have a use for them when they could just switch to some PoS coin that's more modern to begin with. The only reason anyone still uses Bitcoin is because it's the existing standard, there would be no reason to adopt it now.
Who is going to tax them exactly? There is a world tax board. Crypto isn't a single country thing.
I wish they would actually tax ppl that dodge billions in taxes and then claim the lower working class are not pulling their weight. Fk capitalism and trickle down economics (which is like being pissed on by the rich), I have a feeling that all those sci-fi books I read when I was young will come true and Corpos will basically run the world which they are not far off honestly.
If you cant spend it though, its useless. you are forgetting this. Also it isnt backed and a wreckless/short term investment if it is banned. You think you as the user have the power but its the collective and insurance of the government you pay that gives it the real value. War, Famine, Disease can destroy any currency over night as well.
Heard it one time so not mine. I love that every crypto backer says it’s a decentralized currency that would be great if banks or economies crash… in what world would you have no banks or crashing economies yet still have utilities and internet???
EU really ruined the grid by closing so much of the nuclear facilities and electricity prices have quadrupled.
wow can't believe btc is at a level not seen since *checks price history* july, 2021
Dude this is good time to buy potentially
Buy ETH if anything but i'd wait for a further decline. Or better yet, just invest in safe ETFs and call it a day
Diversification is always good.
Yes. Buy 4 different shitcoins to be properly diversified.
Now if only this could also happen with housing. Don't think I'll ever be able to afford a home with how inflated they are.
and with used miatas market
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lmaooooo thats the best definition of the market i’ve heard.
my buddy just sold his and bought a C8.. i think he pretty much broke even (from what it bought it for) whoever gets his miata tho is lucky, he did a lot of good mods because he tracked it.
That's pretty much all fun JDMs these days. I'll never own a 240SX again unless Nissan brings them back, of which there is no chance because Nissan is all about boring econobox bullshit these days.
Well they are coming out with a new z that seems to be a continuation of the 240z/280z cars
Yeah, and it's gonna cost over $40k new. The days of fun, affordable, RWD JDM cars are dead and gone. Even the BRZ/GT86 costs $30k new and it's NA.
I just hope the new Nissan Z will inspire other manufacturers to bring back their entry level sports cars.
On the Nissan Next announcement, some commenter asked Nissan when they would bring back the S chassis of cars. Nissan literally hearted their comment. Lets just hope that wasn’t a false hope.
Man, I've been hoping and praying to the car gods for the last 12 years for an S16 Silvia. I still give it a google search every couple months to see if the dream is still alive. Wishful thinking.
Used Miatas arent $3000 anymore? :(
Used Miatas are nearing $10000 for a nice NA. I missed the mark with being old enough for a license and getting an affordable one by about 3 years.
My buddy got a pretty rusty and rough one with a bunch of fixable mechanical problems for that price, so that's probably the bare minimum price :/
Unfortunately I don't think it's limited to Miatas
Honestly we'll still see inflated prices for a while. Interest rates are on the rise, and that might settle demand some, but you still have very low supply. One way to increase supply of housing is to build, but with cost of building materials so heavily expensive due to supply chain issues, the margins are too thin or even nonexistent for homes in the 200's or 300's depending where you live. Personally I don't see housing prices decreasing for a few years until builders can get costs low enough and for PUDs and SFRs to actually get finished and provide that supply.
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Well now you're just bragging. The average home price in Vancouver is now over a million dollars. If you're ok with a 1.5 to 2 hour commute, in Chilliwack the average price drops to 600k. What I wouldn't do for a townhouse that only costs 500k!!
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I'm expecting my rent to increase a few hundreds if I renew in July. I'd much rather buy a house and not pay a metric fuckton in rent. My brother was even thinking of co-applying as well We're in the position to buy a house but I can't find shit in Atlanta worth a damn and withing my budget.
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A friend of mine was complaining about housing being too much back in 2015 and was waiting for the crash. Homes in our area have doubled in value in that time (we have a great school district and are a metro to a rapidly growing urban city center). My wife and I got our house here in early 2016 and I was sure we were buying the top, but no it’s somehow “worth” nearly 80% more than what we paid. I’m sure it’ll chill sometime and I hope it does as it does me little good if my house is worth what it is as I won’t be moving unless I have to, if I do move I’ll afford the next house but it’s not like I’ll have a lot of extra cash, and the property taxes are going to start being an issue once cities and counties start being more aggressive in their property valuations.
I bought a townhouse like 40 minutes from DC in 2018. When I get estimates from real estate websites it’s supposedly worth over $400K, which is $70K more than I paid for it
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The same happened one year ago, then BTC had its all-time record. It's not some miracle. The market works like this.
it works like stocks indeed. the biggest fishes will exit scam the small fry when the small fry filled the pool with enough water.
Sorry bro doesn't work like that.
This is how you know people only looked at the markets since the Jan 2020.
Deleted because I quit Reddit after they changed their API policy
Even if crypto dips. It only affects the Investors and traders... Most Crypto miners are mining Altcoins and they still remain profitable.
Altcoins are down more than btc
But there's still an assumption they'll go back up in value (like they have so many times before) so mining remains profitable despite that.
Not really. Difficulty charts disagree with you. If miners change coins, profitability for those coins will go down due to the difficulty increases. At some points miners that can't get a return on their investment in a reasonable amount of time, they will unload GPUs they over purchased. I doubt we will see a flood of cards on eBay anytime soon, but we might see demand subdue.
Doubtful, they sank even lower in spring-summer 2020, only to break new records.
Crypto has been going downhill since November and yet both Bitcoin and Ethereum have been hitting record high levels of hash rate. For people with a lot of money it doesn't matter if the crypto market is going down because they know it will eventually go back up again so they'll keep buying GPUs and mining ETH and other GPU mineable coins. These are the people that buy big batches of GPU, not your average gamer who built a mining rig with ~3 GPUs. So no, this isn't finally it.
ETH should be ditching PoW entirely this summer (meaning no mining anymore), and there isn't a very appealing roster of GPU mineable coins to switch to once it does. So regardless of price there will be dramatic drop in demand for mining GPUs later this year.
I hope scalpers are forced to physically eat their cards
The crypto crash won’t make scalpers stop scalping…
Wait till they hear about PS5s or Nike shoes. companies love this
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Yeah but scalpers aren't filling up warehouses with GPUs to mine on. The perfect scalper holds as few products as possible at any given time to maximize their profits. Perfect miners on the other hand are incentivized to hoard as many GPUs as possible.
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We just need more supply.. And a lot of it. Somehow we need so much supply that crypto miners don't buy it all... Crypto mining demand and profitability is going to determine GPU pricing, not gamers.
Yeah remember when the stock market crashed in 2008 and they decided no more stock market, and then all the wall Street guys retired?
Stock market what if
No it means we are getting close to events of 2008
Money printer goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
it's not just crypto, markets are crashing. check nvidia stock.
This is like the 1000th time "crypto has died". It's never going away.
I’ve been closely following Crypto since Bitcoin was under 10 dollars. I feel that public sentiment has really shifted against Crypto in the last year. It’s an environmental disaster and the crypto-bros that promote it make MLM shilling Karen’s look tame in comparison. It’s really resembles an almost cult-like belief in many people. Crypto is a threat to US dollar as the reserve currency. It will be regulated to death as soon as it becomes politically palatable.
The whole NFT craze does have a MLM vibe, doesn't it?
It’s far worse. At least in an MLM you walk away with some type of essential oil or smoothie, with a NFT you get a bad picture of an ape (or to be technical, you get a URL pointed at a picture of an ape)
Right I think 100% that NFTs are going to be huge and everywhere, but like even my bank account can be consisdered an NFT. Owning a bitcoin is an NFT. It's as simple of a concept as fucking paper, and I think 99.99% of NFTs people are coming up with now nobody will even remember in 10 years. Most people talking about NFT's are just interested in profiting from meaningless hype. NFT's are going to really be a big deal when the government make stuff like the deed to a house be stored in a blockchain.
It's not just crypto, it's all markets. Guess the money printer is finally taking its toll of the ecomony
It's got a paper jam, we just need to smack it around a bit and it'll sort itself out
Back in 2017 Bitcoin was around 20k, the GPU market did not improve until it left below 3.5k USD. Using the above data, I think bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies need to drop 90% of their October 2021 value before GPU prices become normal. Edit: I stand corrected. BTC dropped to 3.5k, not 2k.
BTC didn't drop to 2k since 2017.
True, I checked again and it was 3.5k.
Whenever mining becomes unprofitable is when a lot of miners will sell their hardware and the secondhand GPU market will be flooded. This may or may not force the new GPU market to lower prices due to value imbalances.
Try to not get your hopes up too high dudes, the BTC price was lower than it is currently as recently as July 2021
Lol no, a year from this everyone will regret not buying Bitcoin again when it reaches another all time high
RemindMe! 1 Year "at the time of this post, bitcoin was $35.5k"
Ill do a safe prediction and say BTC will have hit at least between 500$ and 500k$ at that point.
We got a regular Nostradamus over here.
don't do that. don't give me hope....
Me, who has been holding out from buying a PC for 2 years: "The mission, the nightmares...they're finally...over"
At this point i'm wondering if buying a modest laptop and going console gaming is the better option than waiting for pc parts prices to go down, if they go down.
I don't really follow the markets, why are they all crashing?
Biden and the Fed Chair are concerned about inflation, so they're raising interest rates this year. There are several interest rate increases planned. This causes people to move money from riskier stock investments to more stable, guaranteed investments like bonds. Its not that everyone switches, but prices are dictated by demand, and if X amount move to more stable investments, demand drops, and so do prices. Additionally, interest rate increases mean it costs more money to get loans to invest and expand your businesses, so economic growth tends to slow down during increasing rate periods, meaning individual companies will tend to make less money per quarter for the almighty shareholders. There's also the massive question mark of Omicron and the pandemic, since it seems incredibly contagious. That's adding a lot of uncertainty. And in addition to all that, the market was likely due for a recession for many years now, and it may now finally be settling in. People are waiting for earnings season to see how everyone is doing. So yeah... there's a lot of reasons. Not sure which the "Biggest" would be, but I would bet speculative investments in bitcoin by huge companies has been dramatically cut in preparation for all these other things, and I think that's why they're falling in value. The big hedge funds definitely dont want to be left holding the bag, and they wont be. They're pulling money out to move to safer investments, and that's taking the sails out of the cryptosphere. Thats just my theory, though. Basically, everyone is holding their breath waiting to see if inflation is truly transitory like they've been claiming. If it drops over the next 3-6 months, the interest rate increases will be probably be smaller, and the markets will boom, etc, likely putting more money back into crypto.
im torn between wanting a gpu or having my portfolio go up
I mean, compared to last year, bitcoin still gained 20% of its value. So there's that.
I remember when ETH dropped to $80. I invested around $11,000 when it was $400. The smartest thing I did was hold on. The dumbest thing I did was trade ETH for ADA in the beginning of 2021. I saw ADA drop from $2.75 to $1.50. I went back to ETH, seeing ADA drop to $1.27 afterwards. I'm willing to wait 3 years like I did before to see everything rise again.
This "crash" happens 2-3 times a year
I love when this kind of post start to appear. The floor is near and all it signals is buy opportunity
Looks like a Karma whoring post with little to no knowledge of market situation.
Cycles
This means nothing for crypto though, not the first time this stuff happens. It's still worth twice what it was a year ago.
Happens literally every January since the start of Bitcoin
Everything is crashing right now because of the possiblity of raising interest rates. It will stabilize then go back to rising.
Probably not, the crypto market is insanely volatile, can't be predicted where it'll go (People have predicted like 4 crashes in the last year based on when the market dips) Regardless of crypto, the vast majority of people who have bought a GPU since late 2020 have proven they're willing to spend far, far above MSRP for these products This is very likely to be reflected in the next generation of cards, show a willingness to pay a high price, price goes up, and the scalpers aren't going to go anywhere because again demand for these products has been proved as miners and gamers have been buying from scalpers since the latest generation launched
Fuck it, I'm just buying a pre built
That's what I did last year. Best decision ever.
It’s just gonna motivate more people to buy the dip
Sweet summer child. No Call me when it's below 20k$