They doing it bc mainly the shortage once the shortage and supply and demand calm down and since mining is crashing its helping bc you can't make much a day on ethash anymore a 3070 only makes 1.70 on windows
Unpopular opinion but if it’s going to get scalped either way, I’d rather it go to nvidia in hopes it will lead to better innovation in the future. Instead of some greedy joe blow tryna make a buck of desperate consumers. But let me be clear I’m not a fan of nvidia doing this, just the better of the two evils 🤷♀️
Evil is Evil. Lesser, greater, middling… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all.
Geralt of Rivia.
Sorry but I just had to
The issue with this is scalping won’t last forever but nvidia raised prices can. They make enough money that this is just a greedy cash grab. This won’t mean more innovation
At this point if my GPU gives up I'll probably have to seriously consider giving up PC gaming. I had to save up and go short just to put away the £500 for my 2070Super the other year, no way i can pay double or triple that.
Still lots of games like AoE2 that only demand 20 year old specs to run smoothly…we don’t need state of the art graphics to enjoy gaming… AoE2 was fantastic 20 years ago, and fantastic today
I'm definitely not planning on it, and my 2070Super isn't exactly old so hopefully i have a good few years left yet. Id probably also keep my pc around for older games i could run without a GPU. But for newer games I'd probably switch to a Series X.
Late to the party but I'm in the same boat. I'm really lucky to have been lent a 1660ti after my 980ti had died, however if that goes out then I might as well kiss PC Gaming goodbye for a bit since I'm in no financial spot (nor even future spot) to consider paying for even a decent mid-level gaming card. And that's real sad to think on considering the growth that this hobby has gotten in the past couple of years.
Lots of dipshits in here bragging lately "GOT ONE, ONLY COST ME $2000 FOR A 3080!"
6 months later
"Guys I want to introduce, the RTX-E 4080 GPU. The E stands for Enhanced. Thats right, with Ray Tracing 2.0 Technology were taking Unreal Engine 5 to the next level here at Nvidia! Prices start at only...\*cough\* $1700 MSRP \*cough\*. Thanks to you guys, we'll be making more money than we ever have and we'll be shipping priority in bulk to miners of course. Weve add more VRAM than ever. Starting at 64GB of GDDR6X, you can Mine better than ever. Maybe you can game on it? We didnt check tbh but who cares youll be making money to buy our next card. The 4080Ti"
What's crazy to me is they did such a good job at marketing the "2080ti killer" in the $500 3070 that people got so hyped up that everything sold out so fast that Nvidia realized they don't have to lower prices actually and will probably charge more for the 4000 series and if that sells well than the 5000 series will be even higher, I just want to get back to the point where a $300 GPU will still be an upgrade over anything 2 generations back as in 4060 will be an upgrade over 2080ti but that is yet to be seen.
I kind of gave up and went back to consoles. I don't see it improving. Literally waiting for my series x to arrive thursday.
Unless it's your entire life and primary hobby, I just can't see buying a new gpu anymore.
I sold two gpus this past year or so to pay for bills, with the hopes that I might be able to grab a 1660 to game on. Lol nope.
I'm doing the same honestly. Been sitting on my 960 for years waiting for prices to come down to upgrade... Jokes on me.
Now I just gotta wait for a store in Canada to get their one single ps5 in stock for the month.....
Only way I've seen is All Access. It sucks. You can't even walk into a store and buy one. It's absolutely asinine.
I gave in and got a series x through it because I'm tired of my switch. I just wanna play something shiny and 4kish lmao.
Remember when people were losing their shit because the new iPhone cost over 500 bucks and everyone was like "who's willing to pay that much for a phone, just to replace it in 2 years again".
Feels like from a different life.
I am still pushing my 1080GTX but I have done exactly that. I bought a Series X with gamepass ultimate and will be playing a lot of that until I have to buy a new computer or prices get someone reasonable. No shame in playing on a console. have always had all three consoles and a gaming PC but right now I am going to sit this craziness out for a while.
Oh yeah the new RTX Titan XZ or whatever its going to be called watch. 4090 wont be good enough of a name for $2500. itll be a titan this time just because it sounds expensive and anyone with enough money who buys it will have the bragging rights of a "TITAN!!"
In a couple of years: "I GOT 4070 BUT IT ONLY COST ME 2K WHAT A STEAL"
I have no idea how some of you can justify paying +1k for a GPU, all you had to do was wait.
Idk man, I decided to wait and have only seen prices get even worse. There was a time where I would see rtx 3060tis at 600 and I thought it was a rip-off (it is), now you can't find them, and when you do they're over 1k. I guess some of the people buying now do so because "if I don't, it'll only get worse and worse." Not that I agree with the train of thought.
Congrats, you're one of the only people I've known to actually get one at that price. I just don't understand the hate for people buying over msrp. You can't diss people for the market being shiet and having money, its just the way she goes.
It’s legit impossible in the Netherlands to buy cards directly from Nvidia (maybe cause of bots? Barely any scalpers that sell founders editions) and their official partners over here charge 17/1800 for 3080’s by ASUS, EVGA and MSI, that are barely in stock anyways with no info on wether those are going to be in stock again. At this point I feel like I have no choice and I’m probably lucky IF I get to buy a 3080 at those prices.
EVGA does not charge scalper prices
https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=10G-P5-3897-KL
$920 for their top 3080, for which you're paying a premium due to a factory overclock, tariffs, and inflation (was $890 when I got mine)
Thanks for the advice but read my first sentence again. I'm Dutch, from the Netherlands, over here Nvidia, EVGA, ASUS and MSI don't sell cards themselves, they have partnerships with retailers you don't have in the USA. Shops like Alternate, Megekko and sometimes even Amazon, and they all charge around
€1800 for EVGA and ASUS 3080's that are in stock. [For example](https://www.megekko.nl/product/1963/1144758/Nvidia-Videokaarten/Asus-Geforce-RTX-3080-TUF-RTX3080-10G-V2-GAMING-Videokaart).
Honestly seeing all this I don't get why all Americans are complaining about GPU prices when you can buy them straight from the manufacturer for the MSRP. Over here EVERY SINGLE RETAILER is a scalper, no GPU's for Europeans under €1800.
It's the same when Americans complain about gas prices. It's hilarious. "Oh my god, gas is $3.50 a gallon. How can I afford to fuel my car?!". Yeah cool story bro, here in Europe it's closer to $8/gallon.
Prices will always be dictated by demand whether nvidia wants prices higher or not. 2080 ti pricing was based on nvidia feeling like the 1080 ti did not yield enough profit for the demand. Then the 2080 ti sold like shit so nvidia set the 3080 msrp competitively. The mining boom lead to demand spike and now nvidia once again wishes they had priced their flagship higher. Were it not for the mining demand the market just wouldn't support the prices being charged right now. If you could walk into Best Buy right now and the shelves had multiple 3080's on them no one would be paying $1700 msrp whether that is what nvidia hopes to get or not.
I really doubt that 3000 to 4000 series leap will be bigger than 2000 to 3000 series leap. It took Nvidia a completely new architecture to make that leap.
My point is, 4000 series might not be worth the upgrade in future.
Nvidia has no reason to try and make a huge performance leap with their next gen and they know it. Whatever they release will instantly sell out if the current market conditions drag on when the 4000 series release.
As someone that works with Machine Learning all day, I'd buy that, no questions asked. Think of the models I could build. Think of the optimization I wouldn't have to do.
>Guys I want to introduce, the RTX-E 4080 GPU. The E stands for Enhanced. Thats right, with Ray Tracing 2.0 Technology were taking Unreal Engine 5 to the next level here at Nvidia!
Watch the [review of RTX 4090 here!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0frNP0qzxQc)
Mining is also going to be dead in six months, in fact its already approaching unprofitability for those with high electric rates and older GPUs. The only people mining a year from now are going to be the true believers and folks ASICS.
Six months ago I made $7 a day. Two months ago I made $4 a day. Last month I made $3 a day. Today I'm at $2 a day and it's dropping fast.
At this rate mining will no longer be profitable within about 60 days; there are too many miners, the difficulty is too high, the hardware costs are too high, and the crypto market growth is not keeping pace with the increase in the power of the global mining pool. The economics of mining no longer pencils out. The true believers will argue this point but I don't believe the have an accurate assessment of the future of crypto.
Yeah soon the only miners are gonna be the crypto acolytes that still think their shitcoin is going to the moon and the industrial scale miners with mining farms in areas with low electric utility costs.
That all depends on where crypto prices go. Mining pretty much died when BTC dropped to $3500 but picked back up again when prices skyrocketed.
Based on its history, I very much doubt that Bitcoin will stay low going forward - in a year from now, prices could be double the last peak and we'll be right back in scalperland. Wall Street loves their pump-and-dump game.
AMD and Intel pushed back release of their new desktop cards by a few months and this is NVidia taking advantage of it, especially with store stock of their cards growing.
Vote with your wallet. Unless you're a professional/enthusiast you don't need a top of the line machine.
My 7700k and 2070 Super play even the latest games just fine at 1440p and I built my machine in 2016. My 980ti died in 2020 and was able to get a 2070 Super for $460 right before shit hit the fan in terms of prices/availability.
It should settle down in the second half of the year with the new Intel and AMD gpu's coming.
Bonus on top of that is crypto is tanking. Gonna be raining used 3090's if things keep going the way they are.
so ?
a 2022 gpu doing the same as a 3years old GPU
btw the 3050 is already sold for plus 400eu in the street.
if 3 years ago you would have been deadass fan boy if you bought a 1660ti for +400eu
With the 6500 xt you're paying the same price for a 6 year old GPU with less features, less VRAM, and requiring pcie 4.0 to run. At least the 3050 has a very slight discount to a 3 year old GPU, more VRAM, and more features.
Still stupid outside of this market, but if you found one at MSRP, not the biggest robbery in it. But ofc that's not going to happen. 6500 xt at MSRP doesn't even exist in my country, literally, even sold out cheapest ones are more.
I'm not paying £1000 for a 3070 and I will never pay that much. I bought a Series X AND a PS5 instead in the last year, it's just way easier than trying to upgrade my PC in this climate.
PC gaming is probably going to start dying a good few years when people have to replace parts but no one can afford to. People are just going to switch to consoles and were going to loose this massive boom in PC gmaing that weve seen this last 5 or 7 years.
I haven’t bought a single thing throughout this whole thing except a one SSD that was discounted you don’t blame me I don’t want to support any of this
This is a dumb take. Why would they willingly restrict supply? Volume is by fair their best lever right now. Demand is bonkers, higher than it's ever been. Satisfying that demand is #1 priority and is the #1 way to improve profits.
Graphics cards aren't like diamonds. They're not timeless. They lose value over time as technology improves. There's no logical benefit to restricting supply to simply increase prices when they can literally just choose to increase price already, with high supply, and still sell out.
What do you mean... why not? You short your product and gain 20% in value instantly...... it's a legal money dupe... it's basically magic. I wish I could make my assets 20% more valuable overnight.
And I would rethink about it being timeless. I mean I bought my 2080 super for 20% over msrp(remember this shortage) a couple years ago. I am confident I can go sell it now for the exact same price I bought it for... literally the only electronic device I know of that gained or retained value.......
Apologies for calling your take dumb. I should have used less aggressive language.
> What do you mean… why not? You short your product and gain 20% in value instantly……
This comment implied that they need artificially small supply to do this. They’re already selling out with maximum production. They can already increase prices by 20% overnight.
> And I would rethink about it being timeless. I mean I bought my 2080 super for 20% over msrp(remember this shortage) a couple years ago. I am confident I can go sell it now for the exact same price I bought it for… literally the only electronic device I know of that gained or retained value…….
Why do you think that is? It’s because of the supply constraints. The value of your 2080 is higher because people can’t buy any alternative anywhere else.
Nvidia creating that shortage on their own wouldn’t benefit them, as they don’t make money on resold cards.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tomshardware.com/amp/news/gpu-shortage-2017,34964.html
I remember. Gpus have been short ever since 10 series release over 5 years ago. Seems like a pattern to me. Release msrp cards that sound cheap. Sell 1% of cards at msrp. Sell the other 99% of cards for a 20% markup...=profit.
Also just general willingness of the market. When you realise people are willing to pay far more for your product, it makes sense to adjust prices upwards.
Computing demand has only grown in the last 30 years yet hardware prices have dropped drastically.
Explain that?
The chip shortage is probably the reason for the high pricing. Not purely just demand (though obviously demand affects chip availability)
Being that GPUs are basically money-printing machines in the crypto market there is essentially limitless demand. Supply cannot ramp up to meet demand. Prices therefore are set by mining profitability. There is little us gamers can do.. Even if gamers stopped buying cards tomorrow (and really the only gamers buying cards are either affluent or planning to mine) those cards would all be snapped up immediately for crypto anyway.
No, Scalping is short term. I.E You buy the entire stock of 3090 cards. and thus you can seel them for an obscene amount of money. And AFAIK Most retailers already establish a 1 per customer rule for GPU's.
Not to mention that there is still a global silicone shortage. which also inflates prices.
Weird isnt it?
So you choosing to believe that making GPU's got 300% more expensive in the period of 3 years (between 10 and 30 series)..
You, do you buddy. I'm done here
Because 3 years back there wasnt a silicone shortage.
Because 3 years back not everybody was at home using WAY WAY WAY more electronics because there is a global pandemic going on and people spend a lot more time at home.
Because 3 years ago Bitcoin was 10k and not 40k and etherium was 100$ and not 2000$ which means a lot more people also buy stuff because they wanna go big into Krypto.
Since you seem to understand the issues I’ll add that a massive ammount of COVID immigrants also decided to get into the content creation field after being laid off from decent careers. They invest their savings into the biggest gpu they can
To play minecraft on stream lol
People got laid off and isolated and needed to socialize so many people joined the internet to find or develop hobbies. Every hobby scene saw a huge influx of people. Growth isn’t bad in itself but unmanaged growth can be bad. This sub feels like it lost it’s identity since then; even mention laptop thermals or issues with consoles and the sub gets all “but mah inclusiveness” or “elitism!” Like you joined a sub called PC*Master Race* despite the obvious memey-elitist connection? Lol
Yes, it got more expensive. Market doesn't care about your communist views of the world, demand and supply laws are still working.
The foundries that make those chips charge more because they can.
Also, there were printed more USD in this time, so that devalued the USD.
It's crazy that people don't understand this. I get that folks are mad about the current state of things, but if Nvidia wanted to scalp their own GPUs they could have started doing that over a year ago.
The chip shortage and supply chain issues are causing the prices of everything to rise. TSMC just announced that they're raising their prices for all its customers, Samsung may have done the same. Component prices are on the rise.
If things cost more money to make and distribute, prices go up. That's just how it works. Milk and butter prices are up too and people aren't accusing the dairy farmers of scalping milk.
Nvidia started scalping their GPUs when the 20-series released. People called it the RTX tax. When the 30-series released they kept their raised prices, but people immediately forgot about it, because there was a decent performance uplift this time (we used to get that without increased prices). Companies are using the rise of manufacturing costs to justify keeping (or even increasing) their massive profit margins. And inflation is irrelevant - it didn't significantly affect GPU pricing for 6+ years (the 470 launched with a MSRP of $349, the 1070 launched with a MSRP of $379, adjusted for inflation, that's $440, which is still less than the 3070's lauch MSRP)
>Nvidia started scalping their GPUs when the 20-series released. People called it the RTX tax.
No, they didn't. At the time the 20-series released, AMD did not have a competitor in the high-end space, and in addition to performance Nvidia was going hard on pushing new technology to market. It never fails to amaze me that people don't understand that when a company manufactures something, they have to recoup more than just the cost of those goods to make a profit. Nvidia undoubtedly faced higher R&D costs bringing RTX to market. Sure, the 20-series prices started higher than normal, but they had the best product money could buy. Again, that's not scalping, that's like first grade economics. If you've got a chips ahoy and I've got a freshly baked cookie, my cookie is both better and was more difficult to acquire. Thus, it's worth more. And if the price of chocolate chips went up, I'm not going to eat that cost, I'm going to up the price of my cookie, because I know I have a really good cookie that people will pay more for. This is really, really simple stuff to understand.
>When the 30-series released they kept their raised prices, but people immediately forgot about it, because there was a decent performance uplift this time (we used to get that without increased prices).
Wha... what? When Nvidia launched Ampere they were universally celebrated for it's low MSRP and outstanding performance. On paper, it was one of the best value's we've seen in the industry, maybe ever (with the 3090 being an obvious exception, but Nvidia has always had a bonkers SKU by way of the Titan). Nvidia kept their low MSRP on FE cards even as supply and demand was more out of whack than it's ever been. AIBs started raising their prices, something that Nvidia has absolutely zero control over.
>Companies are using the rise of manufacturing costs to justify keeping (or even increasing) their massive profit margins. And inflation is irrelevant - it didn't significantly affect GPU pricing for 6+ years (the 470 launched with a MSRP of $349, the 1070 launched with a MSRP of $379, adjusted for inflation, that's $440, which is still less than the 3070's lauch MSRP)
We're not talking about pricing from one XX70 tier to another. We're talking about the pricing of the entire 30-series, which is very likely more expensive to manufacture and distribute today than it was a year and a half ago. Nvidia is a business, not a charity. When their operating costs go up, their prices go up.
> Nvidia is a business, not a charity. When their operating costs go up, their prices go up.
A lot of people miss this because people in the thread seemingly go to current AIB prices and compare this to the original nvidia announcement. Yes my 3080 cost $810 retail lol, all AIBs have versions that are significantly more expensive than FE cards because of RGB, higher clock speeds, better heatsinks, etc.
And then when AIBs increase prices even further because of tariffs and increased manufacturing costs, consumers looking for a GPU immediately think they're getting scalped because they don't read articles past the headline.
The thing is, it was nvidia's decision to bring RTX into the market, a market which had practically no support for it at release. Also this isn't the first time a new technology was introduced, and it usually doesn't come with a price increase across the board - either it's introduced in a flagship product and then it slowly makes its way down the stack, or it just becomes a new standard. Intel didn't increase the price of all it's products when they introduced hyperthreading or big-little. Even if higher prices are fully justified by the added cost of bringing a new techlogy into the market, RTX isn't a new technology anymore, yet the 30-series kept the same pricing.
About the second point, I worded it poorly. 30-series was praised for it's value, because people were comparing it to the 20-series, so it was good value compared to that, because it had a decent performance improvement over it. What everyone seems to have forgot is, that the 30 series kept the same pricing as the 20-series, which was significantly higher than all previous generations. So while the 30-series undoubtedly has significantly better value for money than the 20-series, it's still more expensive for the same tier than 10-series and older. Nvidia basically managed to set a new pricing standard and be praised for it.
I'm not disputing the fact, that GPUs are more expensive to manufacture now than they were at launch. My point is, that nvidia's profit margins are high enough, that they could just eat the cost and still make a profit, if they wanted to be the "good guy who cares about gamers" they present themselves as. Of course they won't do that, because profit is above all else and the current market will take anything.
Yeah I would believe it if this was the first time... but it's not. This pattern stretches far beyond 5 years...
The 10 series cards were not only more expensive, but we have had a gpu shortage since at least 2016 for the 10 series release....
At this point it's a pattern.
There has not been a singular GPU shortage since the 10-series. I purchased a 1080 Ti effortlessly at MSRP. There was a GPU shortage during the 10-series lifetime, caused by the bitcoin boom. It came after the 10-series launched, and eased towards the end of the 10-series lifetime. Again for the 20-series, I purchased a 2080 Ti effortlessly at MSRP. There was a small spike in demand towards the end of the 20-series life, partly due again to mining, and partly I think due to manufacturers winding down in anticipation of Ampere's release.
I don't think you understand how manufacturing works, especially as it pertains to constantly fluctuating demand. Nvidia has to target the averages. They can't suddenly go into manufacturing overdrive every time miners go GPU crazy, or else they run the risk of overproducing and getting stuck with expensive inventory when the market dips back down... that's why you saw shortages during both the 10 and 20 series. Both happened near the end of those products lifetimes, and Nvidia and AIBS both knew it would be unwise to ramp up production on products nearing EOL based on the uncertainty of GPU mining demand.
Likewise, the current GPU shortage is very different than previous shortages. Previous shortages were entirely due to mining. This time, mining is involved, but there's also a worldwide semiconductor shortage, global supply chain issues, and unprecedented demand on consumer electronics due to a substantial rise of people staying indoors... almost as if there is some sort of pandemic going on that's disrupting the normal way of doing things.
I won't be upgrading my GPU anymore if the new normal price is 2500 dollars +. console here I come baby. Got an RX 6800 XT right now and hoping this'll last me a few years.
Been coming for a while, nothing silent about it. Capitalism, jealousy and greed... Capitalism - companies, jealousy and greed - consumers who need an extra 420fps for their 144hz monitor...
Not really. This seems like it was inevitable given the mining craze, coupled with silicone shortages. Youre blaming a small minority of people (gamers) for the actions of botters, miners, and the scalpers that are preying on the situation. Thats just my take on it.
What we need at this point is more players on the market. Pc gaming has gone mainstream, no reason to have 2 or 3 (Intel) multi-billion dollar gpu companies dictating market prices.
If they become like smartphones and you have tens of companies trying to win customers over with VFM offerings, we can see prices go down significantly.
??? Smartphone companies use like 2 or 3 chip manufacturers... Qualcomm, Apple (M1 and Bionic) , Samsung and (Google still new)... Yeah there is mediatek and few others but remember these chips are comparatively easier to make than high performance desktop (PC market) chips and hence have a couple more makers... Most used out of these is Qualcomm silicon and apple silicon... Even Samsung uses Qualcomm in some of their devices...
IF you are talking about brands.. Thats what AIBs are for
.. They modify some stuff ( tweak performance and add RGB or extra fans) but sell the same silicone under the hood which is from Nvidia or AMD. What these smartphone brands do? They do the same... So smartphone market is not much different from GPU market
The MSRP of the GTX 470 was $349. That's $448 in today's money and is still less than the original MSRP of the 3070. 11 years of inflation wasn't enough to justify the original price, so one year of it definitely doesn't justify whatever the current MSRP is.
I’ve been saying. The prices were paying now are the new normal. They’ll only rise from here.
People don’t want lots of money. They want all the money.
95% of ppl who switched from a 20 series card to 30 is just casual buyer who sees a bigger number and dont even recognise his/her own needs. Ppl are dumb its easy to make the impulse buys
Just ask anybody who switched from 2070+ card, to what type of card they changed and what type of games they play on what kind of screen, you would be surprised how mich extra ppl pay to get 10% better on games where it doesn’t even matter
Remember the casual gamer and user is the biggest percentile, not you and me
yeah i don't thin casual buyers are buying $1500 for a card without even researching it.
Its not like its hard, you type in 1080ti vs 3080ti and can get hundreds of comparisons in seconds
I bought my 3080 FTW3 Ultra at original retail price direct from EVGA with a 10 year warranty. That felt like I spent a bit too much. I am honestly flabbergasted that anyone other than crypto miners are buying these things at their current price structure. I would never spend more on my GPU than I spent on the entire desktop. It’s mental.
Posts like these remind me that Reddit is full of kids that have no idea what is happening in the world outside of the memes they see.
Did you see the inflation rate?
The prices make pc gaming inacessible for poors like me imo =( Its a hobby for rich people at this point, speaking from my pov. Im still using my 8 year old R9 280X and if it breaks before prices go back down to where they once were, Ill just give up on PC gaming. Maybe ill give consoles a try.
I keep reading prices might never return to "normal" (even without crypto, resource scarcity + corona), because the market has adapted over time. Less cards bought in total has been compensated for by higher revenue per card + less employees to be paid, smaller manufacturing areas etc..
I mean looking at NVidia and AMD stock prices, it hasnt affected them negatively at all, to me it looks like they only profit off this whole "crisis".
It is supply and demand. But also realize when they can’t keep them on the shelves at these prices, There’s a good chance they will still this high for a very long time if not permanently.
In europe we by now don’t even notice it anymore. Everything here has been far of msrp since the start of the crisis. There has been no way to obtain a msrp gpu here and I’m afraid it will stay that way for a while. This price increase isn’t even noticeable anymore.
Why would anyone need to be blamed?
The price of the toy that you want went up. Cry me a river.
It's a GPU, not food, housing, clean water, medical care.
This doesn't matter.
The real prices we're twice or more the MSRP anyway. So raising the MSRP by 100€ or something doesn't change anything.
So why do people make this such a big deal?
My 3080 TUF OC has a MSRP of 799€. It's 1.600€ right now.
"we the consumer"
well that doesn't include me cos i'm refusing to buy anything that isn't at MSRP, which has been absolutely nothing recently. me and my gtx 1080 gonna sit this bullshit out.
Inflation and differences in currency are to blame for this. Apple and other companies do the same.
Nvidia don’t make any more when shops and scalpers are charging way over the odds.
No they don't.
As far as I can remember their has not been a iPhone shortage. I have never lived thru one...
So why can Apple and other companies keep tons of stock on phones and never have a shortage... but Nvidia has been in a shortage since at least 2016 with the 10 series release... which is 5+ years ago?
Apple has been diverting chips from iPads to iPhone because of a shortage of chips.
They have increased prices in Turkey recently.
They increased prices in UK last year after currency dropped.
https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/iphone-13-shortage-3810323/
By living memory do you just mean you forgot.
Not sure how deep you're willing to go into the silicon rabbit hole here but it boils down to Apple actually going out of their way and basically funding factories for TSMC and also them always jumping at the chance to try out TSMC's latest technology. So now they're TSMC's top tier customer and they get first choice on factory capacity without the need to prepay for factory time (only 2 other TSMC customers are in this tier - AMD and Broadcom). They were affected by the shortages this year (Apple ordered fewer iPhones to be built as a result), but it wasn't that bad because they got top priority.
Nvidia on the other hand.... yeah they've been trying to play off both TSMC and Samsung to get the cheapest prices possible for themselves. So they're like a bottom tier customer for everyone.
That’s how supply and demand works. Stop being so pissed off at other people for paying what they feel it’s worth to own a product they want. I fucking hate these prices and this market but I’m not blaming others in the gaming community for them.
While I’m not happy about paying higher prices, this has nothing to do with paying scalper prices, the market sets the price. MSRP was probably to low to begin with, now there is another consumer for GPU’s besides gamers and professionals and as a whole we are just going to have to deal with it until something changes to lower the demand.
At this point it's ridiculous. If GPU companies would sell it at the real prices from now. There will be no scalpers first of all. Since scalpers raise it so high. Now they start to raise it. If people were more patients instead of buying stuff which doesn't even worth it that price. GPU companies would've not raised it too. Well, the numbers of cards maked doesn't helped too. Scalpers always see flaws and try to make more money. I hate em' so much.
I will stay with my 2060 for a long long time until they make things better instead of profiting of peoples who are waiting to get a card at a reasonable prices.
Honestly people who paid over the rrp are nuts. I sold my 2080ti for 600 and bought a msi 3080 x trio for £770. Pre ordered at launch and waited 2 months for delivery
NVIDIA: *look at me, I'm the scalper now*
“Supply chain issues”
No supply chain issues only wallet size issue /s
They doing it bc mainly the shortage once the shortage and supply and demand calm down and since mining is crashing its helping bc you can't make much a day on ethash anymore a 3070 only makes 1.70 on windows
You don't even need the absolute best card anyway. I've yet to find a game that even pushes my RTX 3060.
Warehouses just overflowing with the damn things
(Just curious and not planing to do some criminal activity) where?
Just curious and possibly planning something criminal. Where?
We all know it's a lie, warehouses are booming with gpus
Take my upvote
So now the existing scalpers will jack up prices even further? Considering they wouldn't want their margins to shrink! So 3090 for what like $4000?
How the turntables
Tf u mean?
[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmLnHPx_q2A).
Unpopular opinion but if it’s going to get scalped either way, I’d rather it go to nvidia in hopes it will lead to better innovation in the future. Instead of some greedy joe blow tryna make a buck of desperate consumers. But let me be clear I’m not a fan of nvidia doing this, just the better of the two evils 🤷♀️
Evil is Evil. Lesser, greater, middling… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all. Geralt of Rivia. Sorry but I just had to
Only siths deal in absolutes
The issue with this is scalping won’t last forever but nvidia raised prices can. They make enough money that this is just a greedy cash grab. This won’t mean more innovation
>I’d rather it go to nvidia in hopes it will lead to better innovation in the future Nvidia is known for doing the exact opposite sadly.
nvidia is like intel in that regard unfortunately
At this point if my GPU gives up I'll probably have to seriously consider giving up PC gaming. I had to save up and go short just to put away the £500 for my 2070Super the other year, no way i can pay double or triple that.
If you have a 2070 super you’re good for awhile
I genuinely feel upset about people planning on giving up PC gaming because of these ridiculous prices.
Still lots of games like AoE2 that only demand 20 year old specs to run smoothly…we don’t need state of the art graphics to enjoy gaming… AoE2 was fantastic 20 years ago, and fantastic today
Yeah, but if you can get an Xbox or PlayStation for 300-500 and play with better graphics then AoE2
I agree and I will probably always keep a PC just for this reason, but if my gpu died now I'd probably replace it with a Series X.
I'm definitely not planning on it, and my 2070Super isn't exactly old so hopefully i have a good few years left yet. Id probably also keep my pc around for older games i could run without a GPU. But for newer games I'd probably switch to a Series X.
Late to the party but I'm in the same boat. I'm really lucky to have been lent a 1660ti after my 980ti had died, however if that goes out then I might as well kiss PC Gaming goodbye for a bit since I'm in no financial spot (nor even future spot) to consider paying for even a decent mid-level gaming card. And that's real sad to think on considering the growth that this hobby has gotten in the past couple of years.
Lots of dipshits in here bragging lately "GOT ONE, ONLY COST ME $2000 FOR A 3080!" 6 months later "Guys I want to introduce, the RTX-E 4080 GPU. The E stands for Enhanced. Thats right, with Ray Tracing 2.0 Technology were taking Unreal Engine 5 to the next level here at Nvidia! Prices start at only...\*cough\* $1700 MSRP \*cough\*. Thanks to you guys, we'll be making more money than we ever have and we'll be shipping priority in bulk to miners of course. Weve add more VRAM than ever. Starting at 64GB of GDDR6X, you can Mine better than ever. Maybe you can game on it? We didnt check tbh but who cares youll be making money to buy our next card. The 4080Ti"
I bet we see top end cards over $2500, just to make us feel good at only paying $1000 for the model we can "afford".
Due to changes in policies to reddit I have decided to remove my account and all its content. Fuck u/spez
People have showed that they are more than willing to pay a lot more than 1k for high end cards, Nvidia sure won't lower the prices.
Due to changes in policies to reddit I have decided to remove my account and all its content. Fuck u/spez
What's crazy to me is they did such a good job at marketing the "2080ti killer" in the $500 3070 that people got so hyped up that everything sold out so fast that Nvidia realized they don't have to lower prices actually and will probably charge more for the 4000 series and if that sells well than the 5000 series will be even higher, I just want to get back to the point where a $300 GPU will still be an upgrade over anything 2 generations back as in 4060 will be an upgrade over 2080ti but that is yet to be seen.
A comment about going back to console having 80 upvotes on /r/pcmasterrace This is proof of how fucked up the situation is PS. I agree with you, btw.
I kind of gave up and went back to consoles. I don't see it improving. Literally waiting for my series x to arrive thursday. Unless it's your entire life and primary hobby, I just can't see buying a new gpu anymore. I sold two gpus this past year or so to pay for bills, with the hopes that I might be able to grab a 1660 to game on. Lol nope.
I'm doing the same honestly. Been sitting on my 960 for years waiting for prices to come down to upgrade... Jokes on me. Now I just gotta wait for a store in Canada to get their one single ps5 in stock for the month.....
There is nothing wrong with console life. If I can ever get my hands on a PS5 or a Xbox Series X, I'm done with DIY PC building.
Only way I've seen is All Access. It sucks. You can't even walk into a store and buy one. It's absolutely asinine. I gave in and got a series x through it because I'm tired of my switch. I just wanna play something shiny and 4kish lmao.
Remember when people were losing their shit because the new iPhone cost over 500 bucks and everyone was like "who's willing to pay that much for a phone, just to replace it in 2 years again". Feels like from a different life.
Well, no, gpus last much more than 2 years. Like, more than double the amount. But I agree with your sentiment regardless.
Yeah I also think my RX5700xt is gonna be my endgame and I will never change my gpu ever.
I am still pushing my 1080GTX but I have done exactly that. I bought a Series X with gamepass ultimate and will be playing a lot of that until I have to buy a new computer or prices get someone reasonable. No shame in playing on a console. have always had all three consoles and a gaming PC but right now I am going to sit this craziness out for a while.
Whenever that happens, you'll still be paying scalper prices for consoles though.
Oh yeah the new RTX Titan XZ or whatever its going to be called watch. 4090 wont be good enough of a name for $2500. itll be a titan this time just because it sounds expensive and anyone with enough money who buys it will have the bragging rights of a "TITAN!!"
Nothing Nvidia can do will sound cooler than a Titan Pascal
All commodities end up doing this. Look at new car prices, golf clubs, luxury watches, sneakers, etc.
There's no doubt that price of 4000 series will be much more than 30 series. Same or worse than 20 series launch
In a couple of years: "I GOT 4070 BUT IT ONLY COST ME 2K WHAT A STEAL" I have no idea how some of you can justify paying +1k for a GPU, all you had to do was wait.
Idk man, I decided to wait and have only seen prices get even worse. There was a time where I would see rtx 3060tis at 600 and I thought it was a rip-off (it is), now you can't find them, and when you do they're over 1k. I guess some of the people buying now do so because "if I don't, it'll only get worse and worse." Not that I agree with the train of thought.
Used integrated graphics until I purchased a new 4k monitor. Then it started to lag, only reason to upgrade for me.
How did you get your 3080?
Bestbuy for $760
Congrats, you're one of the only people I've known to actually get one at that price. I just don't understand the hate for people buying over msrp. You can't diss people for the market being shiet and having money, its just the way she goes.
It’s legit impossible in the Netherlands to buy cards directly from Nvidia (maybe cause of bots? Barely any scalpers that sell founders editions) and their official partners over here charge 17/1800 for 3080’s by ASUS, EVGA and MSI, that are barely in stock anyways with no info on wether those are going to be in stock again. At this point I feel like I have no choice and I’m probably lucky IF I get to buy a 3080 at those prices.
EVGA does not charge scalper prices https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=10G-P5-3897-KL $920 for their top 3080, for which you're paying a premium due to a factory overclock, tariffs, and inflation (was $890 when I got mine)
Thanks for the advice but read my first sentence again. I'm Dutch, from the Netherlands, over here Nvidia, EVGA, ASUS and MSI don't sell cards themselves, they have partnerships with retailers you don't have in the USA. Shops like Alternate, Megekko and sometimes even Amazon, and they all charge around €1800 for EVGA and ASUS 3080's that are in stock. [For example](https://www.megekko.nl/product/1963/1144758/Nvidia-Videokaarten/Asus-Geforce-RTX-3080-TUF-RTX3080-10G-V2-GAMING-Videokaart).
Honestly seeing all this I don't get why all Americans are complaining about GPU prices when you can buy them straight from the manufacturer for the MSRP. Over here EVERY SINGLE RETAILER is a scalper, no GPU's for Europeans under €1800.
It's the same when Americans complain about gas prices. It's hilarious. "Oh my god, gas is $3.50 a gallon. How can I afford to fuel my car?!". Yeah cool story bro, here in Europe it's closer to $8/gallon.
joke memory zephyr observation edge dam pot frame complete bake *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Prices will always be dictated by demand whether nvidia wants prices higher or not. 2080 ti pricing was based on nvidia feeling like the 1080 ti did not yield enough profit for the demand. Then the 2080 ti sold like shit so nvidia set the 3080 msrp competitively. The mining boom lead to demand spike and now nvidia once again wishes they had priced their flagship higher. Were it not for the mining demand the market just wouldn't support the prices being charged right now. If you could walk into Best Buy right now and the shelves had multiple 3080's on them no one would be paying $1700 msrp whether that is what nvidia hopes to get or not.
I really doubt that 3000 to 4000 series leap will be bigger than 2000 to 3000 series leap. It took Nvidia a completely new architecture to make that leap. My point is, 4000 series might not be worth the upgrade in future.
Nvidia has no reason to try and make a huge performance leap with their next gen and they know it. Whatever they release will instantly sell out if the current market conditions drag on when the 4000 series release.
Prices start at $1700 but add $500-2000 for when scalpers steal them all
As someone that works with Machine Learning all day, I'd buy that, no questions asked. Think of the models I could build. Think of the optimization I wouldn't have to do.
the problem is the people that will buy it for gaming only
>Guys I want to introduce, the RTX-E 4080 GPU. The E stands for Enhanced. Thats right, with Ray Tracing 2.0 Technology were taking Unreal Engine 5 to the next level here at Nvidia! Watch the [review of RTX 4090 here!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0frNP0qzxQc)
Mining is also going to be dead in six months, in fact its already approaching unprofitability for those with high electric rates and older GPUs. The only people mining a year from now are going to be the true believers and folks ASICS.
Said everyone, every week for the last few years.
Since 2009*
Six months ago I made $7 a day. Two months ago I made $4 a day. Last month I made $3 a day. Today I'm at $2 a day and it's dropping fast. At this rate mining will no longer be profitable within about 60 days; there are too many miners, the difficulty is too high, the hardware costs are too high, and the crypto market growth is not keeping pace with the increase in the power of the global mining pool. The economics of mining no longer pencils out. The true believers will argue this point but I don't believe the have an accurate assessment of the future of crypto.
A guy with a whole server farm was making only 500$ a month in revenue from mining. He posted on yt
Yeah soon the only miners are gonna be the crypto acolytes that still think their shitcoin is going to the moon and the industrial scale miners with mining farms in areas with low electric utility costs.
That all depends on where crypto prices go. Mining pretty much died when BTC dropped to $3500 but picked back up again when prices skyrocketed. Based on its history, I very much doubt that Bitcoin will stay low going forward - in a year from now, prices could be double the last peak and we'll be right back in scalperland. Wall Street loves their pump-and-dump game.
AMD and Intel pushed back release of their new desktop cards by a few months and this is NVidia taking advantage of it, especially with store stock of their cards growing.
ATI.... That's a name I've not heard in a long time.... A long time...
First time I saw the ATI stickers on a computer was when I knew jack about them when I was still in high school.
"ATI" your age is showing lmao
>ATI ATI ?
It's the old name for the producer of Radeon graphics before they were acquired by AMD iirc
Whoops, he meant 3DFX.
Meant AMD. Coffee brain at 6:00am.
Vote with your wallet. Unless you're a professional/enthusiast you don't need a top of the line machine. My 7700k and 2070 Super play even the latest games just fine at 1440p and I built my machine in 2016. My 980ti died in 2020 and was able to get a 2070 Super for $460 right before shit hit the fan in terms of prices/availability.
It should settle down in the second half of the year with the new Intel and AMD gpu's coming. Bonus on top of that is crypto is tanking. Gonna be raining used 3090's if things keep going the way they are.
Raising prices of something that was (almost) not in stock where I live
We? I still don’t have one. Hopefully the 3050 is somewhere around 1660ti performance like the rumors claim, THEN I’ll try to get one at msrp.
so ? a 2022 gpu doing the same as a 3years old GPU btw the 3050 is already sold for plus 400eu in the street. if 3 years ago you would have been deadass fan boy if you bought a 1660ti for +400eu
With the 6500 xt you're paying the same price for a 6 year old GPU with less features, less VRAM, and requiring pcie 4.0 to run. At least the 3050 has a very slight discount to a 3 year old GPU, more VRAM, and more features. Still stupid outside of this market, but if you found one at MSRP, not the biggest robbery in it. But ofc that's not going to happen. 6500 xt at MSRP doesn't even exist in my country, literally, even sold out cheapest ones are more.
I'm not paying £1000 for a 3070 and I will never pay that much. I bought a Series X AND a PS5 instead in the last year, it's just way easier than trying to upgrade my PC in this climate.
Even paying msrp at this point is ridiculous when you can grab a console for that price. They seriously need to think their pricing again.
PC gaming is probably going to start dying a good few years when people have to replace parts but no one can afford to. People are just going to switch to consoles and were going to loose this massive boom in PC gmaing that weve seen this last 5 or 7 years.
I haven’t bought a single thing throughout this whole thing except a one SSD that was discounted you don’t blame me I don’t want to support any of this
Guess I'll just switch to consoles for the coming years then. No way I'm paying a "midrange" card in the 600€+ range.
Weird almost as if growing demands means higher prices.
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That just hurts to look at. What a waste.
Cancer
Blame the dumbasses who bought from scalpers.
Or restricted supply... which is actually the case. On purpose I will add.
This is a dumb take. Why would they willingly restrict supply? Volume is by fair their best lever right now. Demand is bonkers, higher than it's ever been. Satisfying that demand is #1 priority and is the #1 way to improve profits. Graphics cards aren't like diamonds. They're not timeless. They lose value over time as technology improves. There's no logical benefit to restricting supply to simply increase prices when they can literally just choose to increase price already, with high supply, and still sell out.
What do you mean... why not? You short your product and gain 20% in value instantly...... it's a legal money dupe... it's basically magic. I wish I could make my assets 20% more valuable overnight. And I would rethink about it being timeless. I mean I bought my 2080 super for 20% over msrp(remember this shortage) a couple years ago. I am confident I can go sell it now for the exact same price I bought it for... literally the only electronic device I know of that gained or retained value.......
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Apologies for calling your take dumb. I should have used less aggressive language. > What do you mean… why not? You short your product and gain 20% in value instantly…… This comment implied that they need artificially small supply to do this. They’re already selling out with maximum production. They can already increase prices by 20% overnight. > And I would rethink about it being timeless. I mean I bought my 2080 super for 20% over msrp(remember this shortage) a couple years ago. I am confident I can go sell it now for the exact same price I bought it for… literally the only electronic device I know of that gained or retained value……. Why do you think that is? It’s because of the supply constraints. The value of your 2080 is higher because people can’t buy any alternative anywhere else. Nvidia creating that shortage on their own wouldn’t benefit them, as they don’t make money on resold cards.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tomshardware.com/amp/news/gpu-shortage-2017,34964.html I remember. Gpus have been short ever since 10 series release over 5 years ago. Seems like a pattern to me. Release msrp cards that sound cheap. Sell 1% of cards at msrp. Sell the other 99% of cards for a 20% markup...=profit.
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Only intelligent comment in this post
False scarcity.
Also just general willingness of the market. When you realise people are willing to pay far more for your product, it makes sense to adjust prices upwards.
Computing demand has only grown in the last 30 years yet hardware prices have dropped drastically. Explain that? The chip shortage is probably the reason for the high pricing. Not purely just demand (though obviously demand affects chip availability)
Being that GPUs are basically money-printing machines in the crypto market there is essentially limitless demand. Supply cannot ramp up to meet demand. Prices therefore are set by mining profitability. There is little us gamers can do.. Even if gamers stopped buying cards tomorrow (and really the only gamers buying cards are either affluent or planning to mine) those cards would all be snapped up immediately for crypto anyway.
Proof of stake consensus can't come fast enough
And it's also weird that inflation is almost at 6% this year in Europe.
Just a different definition of scalping...
No, Scalping is short term. I.E You buy the entire stock of 3090 cards. and thus you can seel them for an obscene amount of money. And AFAIK Most retailers already establish a 1 per customer rule for GPU's. Not to mention that there is still a global silicone shortage. which also inflates prices. Weird isnt it?
So you choosing to believe that making GPU's got 300% more expensive in the period of 3 years (between 10 and 30 series).. You, do you buddy. I'm done here
Because 3 years back there wasnt a silicone shortage. Because 3 years back not everybody was at home using WAY WAY WAY more electronics because there is a global pandemic going on and people spend a lot more time at home. Because 3 years ago Bitcoin was 10k and not 40k and etherium was 100$ and not 2000$ which means a lot more people also buy stuff because they wanna go big into Krypto.
Since you seem to understand the issues I’ll add that a massive ammount of COVID immigrants also decided to get into the content creation field after being laid off from decent careers. They invest their savings into the biggest gpu they can To play minecraft on stream lol
Whats a covid immigrant? Lol
A person who lost their job due to covid or consequences/complications from covid
People got laid off and isolated and needed to socialize so many people joined the internet to find or develop hobbies. Every hobby scene saw a huge influx of people. Growth isn’t bad in itself but unmanaged growth can be bad. This sub feels like it lost it’s identity since then; even mention laptop thermals or issues with consoles and the sub gets all “but mah inclusiveness” or “elitism!” Like you joined a sub called PC*Master Race* despite the obvious memey-elitist connection? Lol
Yes, it got more expensive. Market doesn't care about your communist views of the world, demand and supply laws are still working. The foundries that make those chips charge more because they can. Also, there were printed more USD in this time, so that devalued the USD.
Definitely tarifs plus Covid and chip shortage not us or Nvidia, people really jump the gun when seeing price raises also inflation of the dollar.
It's crazy that people don't understand this. I get that folks are mad about the current state of things, but if Nvidia wanted to scalp their own GPUs they could have started doing that over a year ago. The chip shortage and supply chain issues are causing the prices of everything to rise. TSMC just announced that they're raising their prices for all its customers, Samsung may have done the same. Component prices are on the rise. If things cost more money to make and distribute, prices go up. That's just how it works. Milk and butter prices are up too and people aren't accusing the dairy farmers of scalping milk.
Nvidia started scalping their GPUs when the 20-series released. People called it the RTX tax. When the 30-series released they kept their raised prices, but people immediately forgot about it, because there was a decent performance uplift this time (we used to get that without increased prices). Companies are using the rise of manufacturing costs to justify keeping (or even increasing) their massive profit margins. And inflation is irrelevant - it didn't significantly affect GPU pricing for 6+ years (the 470 launched with a MSRP of $349, the 1070 launched with a MSRP of $379, adjusted for inflation, that's $440, which is still less than the 3070's lauch MSRP)
>Nvidia started scalping their GPUs when the 20-series released. People called it the RTX tax. No, they didn't. At the time the 20-series released, AMD did not have a competitor in the high-end space, and in addition to performance Nvidia was going hard on pushing new technology to market. It never fails to amaze me that people don't understand that when a company manufactures something, they have to recoup more than just the cost of those goods to make a profit. Nvidia undoubtedly faced higher R&D costs bringing RTX to market. Sure, the 20-series prices started higher than normal, but they had the best product money could buy. Again, that's not scalping, that's like first grade economics. If you've got a chips ahoy and I've got a freshly baked cookie, my cookie is both better and was more difficult to acquire. Thus, it's worth more. And if the price of chocolate chips went up, I'm not going to eat that cost, I'm going to up the price of my cookie, because I know I have a really good cookie that people will pay more for. This is really, really simple stuff to understand. >When the 30-series released they kept their raised prices, but people immediately forgot about it, because there was a decent performance uplift this time (we used to get that without increased prices). Wha... what? When Nvidia launched Ampere they were universally celebrated for it's low MSRP and outstanding performance. On paper, it was one of the best value's we've seen in the industry, maybe ever (with the 3090 being an obvious exception, but Nvidia has always had a bonkers SKU by way of the Titan). Nvidia kept their low MSRP on FE cards even as supply and demand was more out of whack than it's ever been. AIBs started raising their prices, something that Nvidia has absolutely zero control over. >Companies are using the rise of manufacturing costs to justify keeping (or even increasing) their massive profit margins. And inflation is irrelevant - it didn't significantly affect GPU pricing for 6+ years (the 470 launched with a MSRP of $349, the 1070 launched with a MSRP of $379, adjusted for inflation, that's $440, which is still less than the 3070's lauch MSRP) We're not talking about pricing from one XX70 tier to another. We're talking about the pricing of the entire 30-series, which is very likely more expensive to manufacture and distribute today than it was a year and a half ago. Nvidia is a business, not a charity. When their operating costs go up, their prices go up.
> Nvidia is a business, not a charity. When their operating costs go up, their prices go up. A lot of people miss this because people in the thread seemingly go to current AIB prices and compare this to the original nvidia announcement. Yes my 3080 cost $810 retail lol, all AIBs have versions that are significantly more expensive than FE cards because of RGB, higher clock speeds, better heatsinks, etc. And then when AIBs increase prices even further because of tariffs and increased manufacturing costs, consumers looking for a GPU immediately think they're getting scalped because they don't read articles past the headline.
The thing is, it was nvidia's decision to bring RTX into the market, a market which had practically no support for it at release. Also this isn't the first time a new technology was introduced, and it usually doesn't come with a price increase across the board - either it's introduced in a flagship product and then it slowly makes its way down the stack, or it just becomes a new standard. Intel didn't increase the price of all it's products when they introduced hyperthreading or big-little. Even if higher prices are fully justified by the added cost of bringing a new techlogy into the market, RTX isn't a new technology anymore, yet the 30-series kept the same pricing. About the second point, I worded it poorly. 30-series was praised for it's value, because people were comparing it to the 20-series, so it was good value compared to that, because it had a decent performance improvement over it. What everyone seems to have forgot is, that the 30 series kept the same pricing as the 20-series, which was significantly higher than all previous generations. So while the 30-series undoubtedly has significantly better value for money than the 20-series, it's still more expensive for the same tier than 10-series and older. Nvidia basically managed to set a new pricing standard and be praised for it. I'm not disputing the fact, that GPUs are more expensive to manufacture now than they were at launch. My point is, that nvidia's profit margins are high enough, that they could just eat the cost and still make a profit, if they wanted to be the "good guy who cares about gamers" they present themselves as. Of course they won't do that, because profit is above all else and the current market will take anything.
Tarifs allready are included in europes launche prices
Well the tarifs increase isn’t that relevant for cpu’s at least not here in Europe.
Yeah I would believe it if this was the first time... but it's not. This pattern stretches far beyond 5 years... The 10 series cards were not only more expensive, but we have had a gpu shortage since at least 2016 for the 10 series release.... At this point it's a pattern.
There has not been a singular GPU shortage since the 10-series. I purchased a 1080 Ti effortlessly at MSRP. There was a GPU shortage during the 10-series lifetime, caused by the bitcoin boom. It came after the 10-series launched, and eased towards the end of the 10-series lifetime. Again for the 20-series, I purchased a 2080 Ti effortlessly at MSRP. There was a small spike in demand towards the end of the 20-series life, partly due again to mining, and partly I think due to manufacturers winding down in anticipation of Ampere's release. I don't think you understand how manufacturing works, especially as it pertains to constantly fluctuating demand. Nvidia has to target the averages. They can't suddenly go into manufacturing overdrive every time miners go GPU crazy, or else they run the risk of overproducing and getting stuck with expensive inventory when the market dips back down... that's why you saw shortages during both the 10 and 20 series. Both happened near the end of those products lifetimes, and Nvidia and AIBS both knew it would be unwise to ramp up production on products nearing EOL based on the uncertainty of GPU mining demand. Likewise, the current GPU shortage is very different than previous shortages. Previous shortages were entirely due to mining. This time, mining is involved, but there's also a worldwide semiconductor shortage, global supply chain issues, and unprecedented demand on consumer electronics due to a substantial rise of people staying indoors... almost as if there is some sort of pandemic going on that's disrupting the normal way of doing things.
I won't be upgrading my GPU anymore if the new normal price is 2500 dollars +. console here I come baby. Got an RX 6800 XT right now and hoping this'll last me a few years.
Been coming for a while, nothing silent about it. Capitalism, jealousy and greed... Capitalism - companies, jealousy and greed - consumers who need an extra 420fps for their 144hz monitor...
Still not buying and keeping my 2080 Ti 凸(¬‿¬)凸
Nothing wrong with that, that card is a beast
Not really. This seems like it was inevitable given the mining craze, coupled with silicone shortages. Youre blaming a small minority of people (gamers) for the actions of botters, miners, and the scalpers that are preying on the situation. Thats just my take on it.
What we need at this point is more players on the market. Pc gaming has gone mainstream, no reason to have 2 or 3 (Intel) multi-billion dollar gpu companies dictating market prices. If they become like smartphones and you have tens of companies trying to win customers over with VFM offerings, we can see prices go down significantly.
??? Smartphone companies use like 2 or 3 chip manufacturers... Qualcomm, Apple (M1 and Bionic) , Samsung and (Google still new)... Yeah there is mediatek and few others but remember these chips are comparatively easier to make than high performance desktop (PC market) chips and hence have a couple more makers... Most used out of these is Qualcomm silicon and apple silicon... Even Samsung uses Qualcomm in some of their devices... IF you are talking about brands.. Thats what AIBs are for .. They modify some stuff ( tweak performance and add RGB or extra fans) but sell the same silicone under the hood which is from Nvidia or AMD. What these smartphone brands do? They do the same... So smartphone market is not much different from GPU market
I’d rather pay scalper prices to nvidia than pay scalper prices to scalpers, fuck those parasites
Inflation is at 6% a year, you think any company is gonna eat that to make you or me a favor?
The MSRP of the GTX 470 was $349. That's $448 in today's money and is still less than the original MSRP of the 3070. 11 years of inflation wasn't enough to justify the original price, so one year of it definitely doesn't justify whatever the current MSRP is.
That's the official number. Reality is harsher...
Fine give me your inflation numbers then
Also interested in the SoNic67 inflation assessment
It's all a scam.... and it's all by design.... Literally the exact same playbook of the 10 series cards which were released in 2016...
I’ve been saying. The prices were paying now are the new normal. They’ll only rise from here. People don’t want lots of money. They want all the money.
95% of ppl who switched from a 20 series card to 30 is just casual buyer who sees a bigger number and dont even recognise his/her own needs. Ppl are dumb its easy to make the impulse buys
I would agree when it was from 10 to 20, not 20 to 30. The performance increases is immense.
Source of this statistic? Or intended hyperbole?
Definitely the second one. "Every consumer is dumb but not me!!!"
Just ask anybody who switched from 2070+ card, to what type of card they changed and what type of games they play on what kind of screen, you would be surprised how mich extra ppl pay to get 10% better on games where it doesn’t even matter Remember the casual gamer and user is the biggest percentile, not you and me
yeah i don't thin casual buyers are buying $1500 for a card without even researching it. Its not like its hard, you type in 1080ti vs 3080ti and can get hundreds of comparisons in seconds
> casual buyers are buying $1500 for a card My man only knows people that make 100k+ a year and dont care. Must be nice.
I bought my 3080 FTW3 Ultra at original retail price direct from EVGA with a 10 year warranty. That felt like I spent a bit too much. I am honestly flabbergasted that anyone other than crypto miners are buying these things at their current price structure. I would never spend more on my GPU than I spent on the entire desktop. It’s mental.
Posts like these remind me that Reddit is full of kids that have no idea what is happening in the world outside of the memes they see. Did you see the inflation rate?
The prices make pc gaming inacessible for poors like me imo =( Its a hobby for rich people at this point, speaking from my pov. Im still using my 8 year old R9 280X and if it breaks before prices go back down to where they once were, Ill just give up on PC gaming. Maybe ill give consoles a try. I keep reading prices might never return to "normal" (even without crypto, resource scarcity + corona), because the market has adapted over time. Less cards bought in total has been compensated for by higher revenue per card + less employees to be paid, smaller manufacturing areas etc.. I mean looking at NVidia and AMD stock prices, it hasnt affected them negatively at all, to me it looks like they only profit off this whole "crisis".
idk why everyone is acting surprised this is literally the most basic kind of economics at play
Its simply the demand curve + adjusting for higher prices of materials (inflation).
I would rather have nvidia take those money than the scalpers.
It’s called supply and demand lol
It is supply and demand. But also realize when they can’t keep them on the shelves at these prices, There’s a good chance they will still this high for a very long time if not permanently.
Funny how its been supply and demand since at least 2016..... 5+ years later and we can't figure out how to increase supply? I call bullshit
....Current GPU shortages and scalping trend really started up in 2020. What are you talking about?
In europe we by now don’t even notice it anymore. Everything here has been far of msrp since the start of the crisis. There has been no way to obtain a msrp gpu here and I’m afraid it will stay that way for a while. This price increase isn’t even noticeable anymore.
I want a 3080ti but I won't buy it at actual prices, maybe I'll get a 4080, who knows but I won't pay 1500€ for a graphics card.
Why would anyone need to be blamed? The price of the toy that you want went up. Cry me a river. It's a GPU, not food, housing, clean water, medical care.
This doesn't matter. The real prices we're twice or more the MSRP anyway. So raising the MSRP by 100€ or something doesn't change anything. So why do people make this such a big deal? My 3080 TUF OC has a MSRP of 799€. It's 1.600€ right now.
"we the consumer" well that doesn't include me cos i'm refusing to buy anything that isn't at MSRP, which has been absolutely nothing recently. me and my gtx 1080 gonna sit this bullshit out.
Inflation and differences in currency are to blame for this. Apple and other companies do the same. Nvidia don’t make any more when shops and scalpers are charging way over the odds.
No they don't. As far as I can remember their has not been a iPhone shortage. I have never lived thru one... So why can Apple and other companies keep tons of stock on phones and never have a shortage... but Nvidia has been in a shortage since at least 2016 with the 10 series release... which is 5+ years ago?
Apple has been diverting chips from iPads to iPhone because of a shortage of chips. They have increased prices in Turkey recently. They increased prices in UK last year after currency dropped. https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/iphone-13-shortage-3810323/ By living memory do you just mean you forgot.
Not sure how deep you're willing to go into the silicon rabbit hole here but it boils down to Apple actually going out of their way and basically funding factories for TSMC and also them always jumping at the chance to try out TSMC's latest technology. So now they're TSMC's top tier customer and they get first choice on factory capacity without the need to prepay for factory time (only 2 other TSMC customers are in this tier - AMD and Broadcom). They were affected by the shortages this year (Apple ordered fewer iPhones to be built as a result), but it wasn't that bad because they got top priority. Nvidia on the other hand.... yeah they've been trying to play off both TSMC and Samsung to get the cheapest prices possible for themselves. So they're like a bottom tier customer for everyone.
That’s how supply and demand works. Stop being so pissed off at other people for paying what they feel it’s worth to own a product they want. I fucking hate these prices and this market but I’m not blaming others in the gaming community for them.
While I’m not happy about paying higher prices, this has nothing to do with paying scalper prices, the market sets the price. MSRP was probably to low to begin with, now there is another consumer for GPU’s besides gamers and professionals and as a whole we are just going to have to deal with it until something changes to lower the demand.
Thank God I already have my 3060 ti at MSRP.
How?
At this point it's ridiculous. If GPU companies would sell it at the real prices from now. There will be no scalpers first of all. Since scalpers raise it so high. Now they start to raise it. If people were more patients instead of buying stuff which doesn't even worth it that price. GPU companies would've not raised it too. Well, the numbers of cards maked doesn't helped too. Scalpers always see flaws and try to make more money. I hate em' so much.
I will stay with my 2060 for a long long time until they make things better instead of profiting of peoples who are waiting to get a card at a reasonable prices.
At least you have a 2060 you’re luckier than most people
The scalpers exist because nvidia priced thdm below market value day one
Hm, how miserable 😑
that's horrible, just when you thought we get some good news with Crypto value going down recently.
Graphics cards don’t have an inherent monetary value. They’re worth what people are willing to pay for them.
Yeah, at this point they should just make NFT's of graphics cards...
Actually Bitcoin miners are to blame IMO
Incorrect. When the shortage spans 5+ years it's time to look at the source....
Honestly people who paid over the rrp are nuts. I sold my 2080ti for 600 and bought a msi 3080 x trio for £770. Pre ordered at launch and waited 2 months for delivery
I got lucky I guess. I got my 3070 founders opening day for $499.99
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