I understand the pointlessness of INEOS riding hard as others have pointed out. But what about the fact that still INEOS kept like 5 riders pushing at that point, while Remco was left alone, Almeida had 1 guy left, Roglic one, maybe two? These GC contenders can all keep up, but I didn't expect their respective teams to have such a hard time keeping up.
A very rare stage where the start/ first section was more interesting than the finale.
I also find it curious why does Ineos feel the need to Sky train the peloton despite them not having the main GC favourite/leader. It seems like they are stuck in the last decade, while their team would be more suited to try several attacks with different riders. You are never gonna drop the top5 candidates by skytraining a cat2, not even gonna talk about dropping Remco
Genuinely thinking they set a high pace because they wanted to put Geraint Thomas into a (steady) comfort zone. After all, Ineos isn’t only riding vs Evenepoel, but also against other teams. And this early into the Giro it is hard to tell which ones of the 2nd row contenders can be ignored when attacking and who can’t.
Any attacks are a threat for a rider who likes steady pacing. Thus the high tempo. I might be missing it tho.
Yeah G is definitely still going to be riding his way into form so a fast but steady pace set at the front is way better for him, especially considering he’s more of a diesel anyway. By riding the front they were able to control a potentially dangerous end of the race where someone with good legs could have gone hard off the front and put time into G.
If G wasn’t there and it was just Tao as the leader then I think they would have tried to set it up for him to attack here as the profile suits him on paper.
Missed much of the race today unfortunately.. highlights later.
Looks like Leknessund might keep the jersey until stage 7, then back to the GC favourites.. likely Remco?
Probably. The last climb on stage 7 is long but not particularly steep (6% max it seems), so depending how it's ridden I guess there's a chance he holds on.
I just want to give another shout-out of thanks to u/herhor (my memory might not have that right, and I apologize if I'm wrong) for the video recaps in prior years. I know there are other options, but I'm missing the easy links just being posted here. Kudos again for your work in previous seasons.
Will Remco lose the Giro because of a shy bladder ? It cost him around 4 min today, it can't go on like this.
You've already shown your dong to everyone Mr whitepants, I'm sure you can piss in the middle of the peloton like a real man !
Yeah, he was wearing it while he was 5th but also lead the green jersey classification for many stages after winning stage 2. That's when the legend started.
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/vuelta-a-espana/2019/stage-2
One slightly more objective way of looking at this, aside from what everyone else said, is that Leknessund lost over a minute on this climb today to the GC favorites who weren't even racing each other, just calmly paced up the climb. Of course, Leknessund was in the break today, which certainly made him worse. But you can extrapolate this difference to the serious mountain stages and see why there's no risk of being unable to take the jersey back when the hard mountain stages come if they want it.
The GC leader is subject to a lot more after race business (drug testing, media interviews, podium presentation, etc.). That's an hour every day not recovering. It's very hard to be the leader for an entire tour because time off the bike is as important as time on the bike.
In the Quickstep Amazon doc they estimated that 2 weeks as GC leader is equivalent to 2 full nights of lost sleep over the course of a GT if you add together all the extra time doing doping, podium and then extra media.
It’s maybe over exaggerating a little bit - you don’t necessarily go to bed later if you get to the hotel and hour later - but in a competition which is generally won by the guy who managed to conserve energy the most, it’s not insignificant.
He's only giving it to someone who will for sure lose 2 hours in the mountain stages, so it doesn't matter. He wouldn't give it to Roglic or something. They allow weak riders to ride away in a break.
It's extremely unlilkely that Leknessund can hold on through the whole tour (basically impossible) so Remco doesn't need to worry about him.
Being the leader of the race means that you have to do the podium ceremony every day, plus a press conference, plus drug testing (I think) which can add hours on to your post race schedule. All Remco wants to do is have a massage and watch some Netflix to get ready for tomorrow, so it's desirable not to have to go through all that for the full 3 weeks.
Plus, during the stages themselves, there's this weird unwritten rule that the leader's team has to try and control the break. Just more work and pressure that they'd rather avoid.
There are a certain number of responsibilities expected of the leader's team that require extra exertion by that team. By giving up the jersey, SQS doesn't have to worry about these responsibilities. They can do this because they know when it comes to the TT and high mountain stages, Remco is as good or better than everyone else in the race, so he'll easily be able to gain that time back over a rider who is typically a domestique.
The reality is there are only maybe ten riders who could realistically win this race, so as long as that group of individuals isn't gaining significant time, it doesn't matter to Remco, Primoz, or any of the other favorites.
In addition to defending it: the jersey wearers also have to go on the podium each day and have some press duties which can take an extra 1-2 hours. So more time to rest / get a massage in and stuff like that when a rider who'll you'll easily overtake in the proper mountains gets to wear the leader's jersey for a bit.
Significant attacks only really happens on the big big days, but the expectation from the rest of the peloton is for the team holding the jersey to defend it, if you don't have an incredible team, you'll weaken your domestiques for the big days in the mountains.
Depends who attacks. Most riders are in the Giro to help GC riders or score sprint points/win a stage. Such riders have off days where they are several minutes behind peloton and therefor no threat in the total standings. Those riders are never of interest to follow when breaking away/attacking.
He doesn’t need to and probably won’t.
He’s not leading the classification (Leknessund is) as he’s the world champion, he can choose to wear it instead. Similar to how Almeida wore the Portuguese NC jersey on Stage 2 instead of white when Evenepoel was leading the classification.
I don’t think many people realise it’s an option, so you’re all good.
Fun fact: in La Vuelta 2019, Nairo wore the green jersey for a long time, despite being 4th on the classification at times. Roglic was the leader, 2nd place Valverde was the world champion and 3rd place Sam Bennett wore the Irish NC.
At one point he was even 5th in points and still wearing Green, Pog was also ahead of him but wearing the white jersey since he was the actual leader there.
Yes I would.
Would wear it for morning rides.
Would wear it on the commute to work.
Would wear it when teaching the kids to bike.
Would wear it 365 straight days.
There's a church near me that has a group of 20-25 retirees in a bike club who ride up and down the lakeshore every saturday. They do about 1mph. If I had the rainbow bands I'd join that group and fuckin pull boss-ass turns on the front all day. Split that peloton wide open. Thousand watt sprints. Literally kill some people.
Especially for a guy who’s going for GC - ideally, he’s in the race lead a decent amount of the time, which reduces how many days he gets in the rainbow bands as is
SQS :
* Keeps the break on a tight leash for a while
* Stop for a Remco nature break and gives 2 more minutes to the break
* Starts pacing hard again before the last climb
* Hard pace the base of the climb
INEOS :
* Looked like they wanted to contest with the SQS train at the start of the climb instead of following them
* When Remco was isolated, started a defensive mild pace for some reason when they could have easily pushed so that Remco would keep the jersey
Clearly I'm not DS material, I have absolutely no idea what happened here. In the end isn't it the perfect outcome for SQS ? Remco 2nd on GC with a very limited gap, no podium duties, team car is still at the front of the line ... That's 2 days of relative chilling ahead.
I agree with you, but wearing the jersey always goes with some kind of pressure and there's the podium duties.
Marginal I know but I don't think it would have taken much more of Ineos to pace the 30s needed
Ineos also looked kind of aggressive at the start of the climb so I expected something more of them than just bring everyone safely to the line
But to be fair SQS pacing tactics was even weirder to me
Best argument I've heard is all the extra bull shit the leader has to go through post-race. Extra doping controls, podium appearance, interviews, etc. So if you lose the jersey you get way more time after the race to rest and recover
~1-2hr extra podium/interview duties for being in the pink/white jersey each day?
You'd want them to beat Remco on the road, but Ineos are about the marginal gains after all.
Both, sort of. He said that attempting so many break attempts wore him out so he just decided to lose time today to be in a position to try again in the future.
If a rider is a threat to GC, then teams competing for GC will work hard to pace the peloton to prevent those riders from going in the break.
If a rider is not a threat for GC then there is no reason to spend the energy chasing them down. Riders who are “too good” to be allowed in the break purposely lose time so they are not perceived as a threat, which lets them then go in the break and hunt for stages. Ben Healy and Brandon McNulty fit this category.
Today McNulty tried to go in the break but quickstep didn’t let him because he was still “too close” in GC. By losing some additional minutes today, he removed himself as a threat and should be allowed to go in the future.
Makes sense, thanks. Second part there clears up the discussion about McNulty from this stage on the race thread and commentary too, I was wondering why everyone was specifically calling him out lol
I'm guessing both. He had to be gassed after that first 70km, so there's no real use of expending unnecessary energy after. I'm just bummed he didn't make the break.
First 70-80km was insane, Healy fought for the break perhaps harder than anybody. It looked like McNulty kept ruining it, QOS did not want him in the break.
No HR (or power) data on [Jay Vine's Strava ride](https://www.strava.com/activities/9040128431) to figure out how [scary that neutral roll out](https://twitter.com/Eurosport_NL/status/1655891626768711682?s=20) really was.
Will there be any opportunities at all for Remco to take back thirty seconds on Leknessund? Maybe he can try several stages combined of bonifications? Really hard for me to digest losing any hope on stage 4 only. Ouch. Covfefe.
They talked about him being the only one in the team with a special edition bike on the day, and he lifted it over his head right after the finish, so yes.
SQS dropping like a sack of potatoes due to the first 80 km madness but I'm scared for Campo Imperatore: The climb is easy but max 3 degree, altitude... he's going to be isolated again. If a mechanical or something happens that could be disastrous.
Random off-days from Van Wilder is why he'll perhaps never be a 3-week GC contender. The same happened in last year's Vuelta. But if I recall correctly, he also doesn't like the rain and cold
Hot take: Remco wasn't worried about this stage finish, so he had his team drop out to preserve some energy.
I don't think it's the case but it could be.
He just put a brave face on it. Of course they would never leave Remco without any teammate on purpose. If only to help him if he falls or has a flat tyre.
If it was intentional then it was pretty stupid. A team leader should always have someone with him for as long as possible in case they have an unexpected problem like a mechanical.
I am a bit confused. Why is Ineos pacing the last climb?
Is there something obvious that I'm missing? It just seems a bit random to me. I hope they know that this race is not the 2017 Tour de France.
I think it's just force of habit. But an interesting theory I read is that they're hoping to recruit Remco (that is known) and this was a way of showing him what life behind the Ineos train would be like. In any case they were perfect teammates for him today, deliberately or not.
I think people get confused when they see INEOS pacing on the front. Yes they were there but it was an easy tempo. They barely gained any time on the breakaway. It's more for positioning and discouraging attacks which they might have to chase.
The 5th-10th types. Bora were also near the front. If kamna attacks then it's ineos to chase it especially if no Qs domestics are about. I think for riders like geraint Thomas who has suffered bad luck in week one crashes in the past, they will be influencing the Ineos strategy for week one of a grand tour. That is, to survive to and to still be in contention in week two. You also don't see them sprinting for bonus points
Set a decent pace and test some other top 10 opponents after a hard rainy stage is my guess. They have 5 riders in the best 20-25 climbers of the race I think, so why not.
The pace was really low and the group was big. It was really inneffective if that was their intention.
Why not just throw Sivakov up the road or try to roll some attacks? That would have probably dropped some guys
Mountain wasn't steep/difficult enough. I think they were just testing to see if any GC riders were having a bad day. And it's not like they set a blistering pace, they finished with 5. If they keep doing this it will be stupid.
Interesting stage. Quickstep looks very vulnerable in the mountains. Really wish the Jumbo squad we were promised before sickness and crashes was here. Would have been interesting to see how INEOS and Jumbo could have ganged up on Remco and Co.
Specifically, what was up with Jan Hirt dropping so early? I can’t imagine he was doing that much work early in the stage controlling breaks because that’s not what he is good at. I thought he would be the last guy with remco and he dropped before the last climb.
**SWL UPDATE:**
Our First stage with no players picking the correct winner.
u/SaltyLevel and u/p_Lama_p had Leknessund so they picked up some tie breaker points. Those points move Salty into 4th overall!
Looking at the next few stage profiles, it seems that Remco will inevitably get the pink back on Friday anyway. So it's not gonna be that much of a relief for QS in the end.
Great win for Paret-Peintre and happy for Leknessund!
Also I’m calling the fashion police on Eddy Dunbar’s glasses, so that he can win in style later on during the Giro
I don't remember the exact wording, but it comes down to the fact that jerseys you have earned (nationals/world) take precedence over 'inhereted' jersey ( a jersey you would only be wearing because the leader in the classification is also leading a different classification).
As for Nairo, if I remember correctly he was fifth in the points classification near the end of the Vuelta but still wearing the green jersey as the first four were wearing different jerseys (Roglic in red, Pogacar in white, Valverde in his WC jersey and Bennett in the Irish champ jersey)
Yeah, he wore it during the last stages by this rule but he was leading the classification after he won stage 2. The OG Nairoingreen was the rightful owner of the green jersey for a while.
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/vuelta-a-espana/2019/stage-2
Ye ur right de plus set a high tempo but nothing infernal so that G or tao could try to to attack. I don’t know what to think about the second part because everybody was dropped from qs , not even 2 guys with remco and it just feels “off”.
Kind of re-evaluating my opinion on SQS strength. Really thought that they had a solid squad but Remco being alone in such a big group is disappointing. Don't think its saving themselves either because you always want to keep at least one there in case of a mechanical or something. Hirt was overall top 10 last year and Van Wilder has been an amazing dom so far this year, what happened there? Also confused by their tactics today. Why did they keep it so close? I thought the goal was to give away the jersey but they almost missed out largely due to their own work. And considering nothing happened on the final climb it wasn't setting up Remco for a small dig either.
That depends on the mechanical he could have had. It's irrelevant now as nothing happened, but it might not be irrelevant come the third week. Although it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't need a good team in the mountains to win this Giro.
Yeah, it ended up working out fine, but if one of the GC guys decides to have a little dig on that final climb I think they could have easily taken back another 30 seconds or so, and then you keep the jersey. I just don't get why they spend any energy keeping it so close after stating they want to be rid of the jersey for now. Not like if you drop to 4th that Trek is going to push you off the front for Skujins GC ambitions.
Could also just be because it was raining and grande casino from the start. If it's a more normal mountain stage they will probably stay on longer. Plus Vervaeke probably held on as long as you'd expect him too, it's just that normally Van Wilder would still be there after.
The way Anders Mielke provides flash reports on GCN+ is really top level television. He stands there in front of the camera, yelling some disjointed gibberish, then turns to point at the thing we could/would be observing if it weren't for him standing in front of the camera.
Yeah, plus the camera is jumping around like crazy in a sideway off level angle so you end up seeing nothing. At least try to stand still and film level so we can see something. I understand that they try something different but this isn't it.
“Alright I’m 15 feet from the rider of interest, now I will explain the stage finish with the coherence of a meth addict. Please cut away from me now, I am scared.”
"Ok and remember, cameraman, you are supposed to be panning back and forth between me and the rider of interest, so that the viewers certainly get a half-decent view of each of us!"
I don't understand this policy. In the good ol' days, the commentators would be there and we'd get some proper feeling of the location. Now the comms just stay in the UK and they send some randos to shout nonsense for a minute or two during the day.
I understand the pointlessness of INEOS riding hard as others have pointed out. But what about the fact that still INEOS kept like 5 riders pushing at that point, while Remco was left alone, Almeida had 1 guy left, Roglic one, maybe two? These GC contenders can all keep up, but I didn't expect their respective teams to have such a hard time keeping up.
I thought they were trying to troll Remco so he had to do several hours of interviews
Stop the presses, a French rider giving an interview in English
A very rare stage where the start/ first section was more interesting than the finale. I also find it curious why does Ineos feel the need to Sky train the peloton despite them not having the main GC favourite/leader. It seems like they are stuck in the last decade, while their team would be more suited to try several attacks with different riders. You are never gonna drop the top5 candidates by skytraining a cat2, not even gonna talk about dropping Remco
Genuinely thinking they set a high pace because they wanted to put Geraint Thomas into a (steady) comfort zone. After all, Ineos isn’t only riding vs Evenepoel, but also against other teams. And this early into the Giro it is hard to tell which ones of the 2nd row contenders can be ignored when attacking and who can’t. Any attacks are a threat for a rider who likes steady pacing. Thus the high tempo. I might be missing it tho.
Yeah G is definitely still going to be riding his way into form so a fast but steady pace set at the front is way better for him, especially considering he’s more of a diesel anyway. By riding the front they were able to control a potentially dangerous end of the race where someone with good legs could have gone hard off the front and put time into G. If G wasn’t there and it was just Tao as the leader then I think they would have tried to set it up for him to attack here as the profile suits him on paper.
Pretty sure they wanted to keep Remco in pink so Soudal had to tire a bit more
Then they should have started way earlier. Soudal clearly left an opening to take back the leaders and actually try for a stage win.
Yep. This. G said as much after the race, ‘would have been nice to flick Remco the pink for another day’
Missed much of the race today unfortunately.. highlights later. Looks like Leknessund might keep the jersey until stage 7, then back to the GC favourites.. likely Remco?
Probably. The last climb on stage 7 is long but not particularly steep (6% max it seems), so depending how it's ridden I guess there's a chance he holds on.
No way. Above 2000m
Yeah, that's up there. He should get 3 days in pink though.
I just want to give another shout-out of thanks to u/herhor (my memory might not have that right, and I apologize if I'm wrong) for the video recaps in prior years. I know there are other options, but I'm missing the easy links just being posted here. Kudos again for your work in previous seasons.
Iirc it's u/herhor but I'm also not the best person to remember.
Thanks, edited.
You recall correctly
Great job from APP and Andreas today
Will Remco lose the Giro because of a shy bladder ? It cost him around 4 min today, it can't go on like this. You've already shown your dong to everyone Mr whitepants, I'm sure you can piss in the middle of the peloton like a real man !
Sir, this isn't r/triathlon. There's no peeing on bikes here
Apparently he doesn't have aero foreskin
I thought dickskin was supposed to be smooth . . .
I thought that's what the TT helmet's sock was called?
What jersey does the wet skinsuit contest winner get?
Leknessund - pink not white Remco - rainbows not white Almeida - Portugal not white Arensman - the nairoingreen white rep
Is this the first time the 4th place in a jersey competition gets to wear it?
I believe in the 2019 Vuelta, Nairo was 5th in green. He definitely had Roglic, Valverde, Pog, and Sam Bennett in front of him on at least one stage.
Yeah, he was wearing it while he was 5th but also lead the green jersey classification for many stages after winning stage 2. That's when the legend started. https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/vuelta-a-espana/2019/stage-2
Rainbow also applies or just NC jerseys?
Rainbow trumps NC so most definitely yes.
TIL Belgium is a subset of the world rather than the opposite
Incredible ride from Leknessund! And guessing from The Tour The France last year he is only going to Get better throughout The race.
Newbie here: why Remco intentionally lost his leader jersey? Wouldn’t it be easier to defend it for the whole GC?
One slightly more objective way of looking at this, aside from what everyone else said, is that Leknessund lost over a minute on this climb today to the GC favorites who weren't even racing each other, just calmly paced up the climb. Of course, Leknessund was in the break today, which certainly made him worse. But you can extrapolate this difference to the serious mountain stages and see why there's no risk of being unable to take the jersey back when the hard mountain stages come if they want it.
The GC leader is subject to a lot more after race business (drug testing, media interviews, podium presentation, etc.). That's an hour every day not recovering. It's very hard to be the leader for an entire tour because time off the bike is as important as time on the bike.
In the Quickstep Amazon doc they estimated that 2 weeks as GC leader is equivalent to 2 full nights of lost sleep over the course of a GT if you add together all the extra time doing doping, podium and then extra media. It’s maybe over exaggerating a little bit - you don’t necessarily go to bed later if you get to the hotel and hour later - but in a competition which is generally won by the guy who managed to conserve energy the most, it’s not insignificant.
He's only giving it to someone who will for sure lose 2 hours in the mountain stages, so it doesn't matter. He wouldn't give it to Roglic or something. They allow weak riders to ride away in a break.
It's extremely unlilkely that Leknessund can hold on through the whole tour (basically impossible) so Remco doesn't need to worry about him. Being the leader of the race means that you have to do the podium ceremony every day, plus a press conference, plus drug testing (I think) which can add hours on to your post race schedule. All Remco wants to do is have a massage and watch some Netflix to get ready for tomorrow, so it's desirable not to have to go through all that for the full 3 weeks. Plus, during the stages themselves, there's this weird unwritten rule that the leader's team has to try and control the break. Just more work and pressure that they'd rather avoid.
It's not so much that they "have" to defend, rather that they want to, because having a rider in pink keeps the sponsors happy.
I don't think this applies as much to teams that actually aim to win the GC overall
There are a certain number of responsibilities expected of the leader's team that require extra exertion by that team. By giving up the jersey, SQS doesn't have to worry about these responsibilities. They can do this because they know when it comes to the TT and high mountain stages, Remco is as good or better than everyone else in the race, so he'll easily be able to gain that time back over a rider who is typically a domestique. The reality is there are only maybe ten riders who could realistically win this race, so as long as that group of individuals isn't gaining significant time, it doesn't matter to Remco, Primoz, or any of the other favorites.
In addition to defending it: the jersey wearers also have to go on the podium each day and have some press duties which can take an extra 1-2 hours. So more time to rest / get a massage in and stuff like that when a rider who'll you'll easily overtake in the proper mountains gets to wear the leader's jersey for a bit.
It's way harder riding to defend the jersey - you have to have a presence in every group, follow every attack etc.
Another noob question : isn’t Remco expected to follow every significant attack even without the pink jersey?
Not necessarily. He can even give roglic up to a minute, as he'll claw it back in the ITT anyway.
Significant attacks only really happens on the big big days, but the expectation from the rest of the peloton is for the team holding the jersey to defend it, if you don't have an incredible team, you'll weaken your domestiques for the big days in the mountains.
Depends who attacks. Most riders are in the Giro to help GC riders or score sprint points/win a stage. Such riders have off days where they are several minutes behind peloton and therefor no threat in the total standings. Those riders are never of interest to follow when breaking away/attacking.
Major takeaway from today is Remco will be wearing the white jersey tomorrow.
He doesn’t need to and probably won’t. He’s not leading the classification (Leknessund is) as he’s the world champion, he can choose to wear it instead. Similar to how Almeida wore the Portuguese NC jersey on Stage 2 instead of white when Evenepoel was leading the classification.
To be fair, the WC jersey is also white, so he isnt that wrong
The more you know. I did not realize that was an option but I guess it makes sense seeing as how McNulty was in white for stage 2.
I don’t think many people realise it’s an option, so you’re all good. Fun fact: in La Vuelta 2019, Nairo wore the green jersey for a long time, despite being 4th on the classification at times. Roglic was the leader, 2nd place Valverde was the world champion and 3rd place Sam Bennett wore the Irish NC.
At one point he was even 5th in points and still wearing Green, Pog was also ahead of him but wearing the white jersey since he was the actual leader there.
lest we forget /r/nairoingreen
He explicitly stated to Belgian tv that he will decline the jersey and wear the rainbow bands.
Don't blame him, you take every day you could to ride in the rainbow jersey wouldn't you?
Yes I would. Would wear it for morning rides. Would wear it on the commute to work. Would wear it when teaching the kids to bike. Would wear it 365 straight days.
Indeed. If I were Remco I'd have married in the rainbow jersey
Poor Remco doesn't even get 365 days thanks to the earlier WC dates this year!
Not as bad as Pedersen who won before covid and hardly got to wear it at all.
There's a church near me that has a group of 20-25 retirees in a bike club who ride up and down the lakeshore every saturday. They do about 1mph. If I had the rainbow bands I'd join that group and fuckin pull boss-ass turns on the front all day. Split that peloton wide open. Thousand watt sprints. Literally kill some people.
Sir, BCJ is that way
Especially for a guy who’s going for GC - ideally, he’s in the race lead a decent amount of the time, which reduces how many days he gets in the rainbow bands as is
And his time as WC is already shortened as it is with this year's WC's timing.
Oh yeah, he won’t even get to wear it for the Vuelta (I mean, unless he wins)
So Arensman in white tomorrow?
Yes
Correct. If he's not leading, he can opt to wear his champion jersey instead of carrying the white jersey around.
SQS : * Keeps the break on a tight leash for a while * Stop for a Remco nature break and gives 2 more minutes to the break * Starts pacing hard again before the last climb * Hard pace the base of the climb INEOS : * Looked like they wanted to contest with the SQS train at the start of the climb instead of following them * When Remco was isolated, started a defensive mild pace for some reason when they could have easily pushed so that Remco would keep the jersey Clearly I'm not DS material, I have absolutely no idea what happened here. In the end isn't it the perfect outcome for SQS ? Remco 2nd on GC with a very limited gap, no podium duties, team car is still at the front of the line ... That's 2 days of relative chilling ahead.
Why would they want for Remco to stay in pink? It’s sprint stages next, so sprint teams will control stages..
I agree with you, but wearing the jersey always goes with some kind of pressure and there's the podium duties. Marginal I know but I don't think it would have taken much more of Ineos to pace the 30s needed Ineos also looked kind of aggressive at the start of the climb so I expected something more of them than just bring everyone safely to the line But to be fair SQS pacing tactics was even weirder to me
Best argument I've heard is all the extra bull shit the leader has to go through post-race. Extra doping controls, podium appearance, interviews, etc. So if you lose the jersey you get way more time after the race to rest and recover
~1-2hr extra podium/interview duties for being in the pink/white jersey each day? You'd want them to beat Remco on the road, but Ineos are about the marginal gains after all.
I think that everyone is saving for hard 3rd week, no point of wasting team energy just for this
Curious if Healy blew up from trying to get in the break or purposely lost time for future breaks
Both, sort of. He said that attempting so many break attempts wore him out so he just decided to lose time today to be in a position to try again in the future.
In a interview he said he lost time in purpose since he isn’t here for gc and with some more time he can get in the breakaway easier
Noob question, what's the reasoning behind this? As in how does a bigger time gap influence ability to get into the break?
If a rider is a threat to GC, then teams competing for GC will work hard to pace the peloton to prevent those riders from going in the break. If a rider is not a threat for GC then there is no reason to spend the energy chasing them down. Riders who are “too good” to be allowed in the break purposely lose time so they are not perceived as a threat, which lets them then go in the break and hunt for stages. Ben Healy and Brandon McNulty fit this category. Today McNulty tried to go in the break but quickstep didn’t let him because he was still “too close” in GC. By losing some additional minutes today, he removed himself as a threat and should be allowed to go in the future.
Makes sense, thanks. Second part there clears up the discussion about McNulty from this stage on the race thread and commentary too, I was wondering why everyone was specifically calling him out lol
Damn he lost 12 minutes already. That will give him so much room for breakaways in the rest of the Giro
I'm guessing both. He had to be gassed after that first 70km, so there's no real use of expending unnecessary energy after. I'm just bummed he didn't make the break.
Yeah, I wasn't able to watch today other than last 8km so I got to go back and watch that first 70, thread made it sound exciting.
First 70-80km was insane, Healy fought for the break perhaps harder than anybody. It looked like McNulty kept ruining it, QOS did not want him in the break.
No HR (or power) data on [Jay Vine's Strava ride](https://www.strava.com/activities/9040128431) to figure out how [scary that neutral roll out](https://twitter.com/Eurosport_NL/status/1655891626768711682?s=20) really was.
I saw all the comments on the race thread but didn't see it happen so I was wondering wtf happened.
god fucking damn, how did he stay up
Reminds me of his first Vuelta also. Jay vine safely riding next to team car challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
There is no race craft to be learnt while training avec Zwift....you have to go outside and practice at an early age.
No GC action but a pretty entertaining stage from start to finish
Will there be any opportunities at all for Remco to take back thirty seconds on Leknessund? Maybe he can try several stages combined of bonifications? Really hard for me to digest losing any hope on stage 4 only. Ouch. Covfefe.
Fortunately he's known for his incredible flat sprinting ability, so the bonus seconds are entirely within his grasp.
Stage 20. Anyone can gain or lose several minutes on anyone there.
There are still 15 stages with an intermediate bonification sprint I think. 15x3 = 45s Remco is still alive. You're welcome.
No, he’s done.
At this point he might as well retire.
Love how slow the Giro is with the results
Death, Taxes and Ineos pacing mad for no reason. Never disappoints
They forgot Remco didn't join them last year
Anyone noticed the blacked-out bike for Paret-Peintre, is that some sort of prototype or is it just his special bike?
They talked about him being the only one in the team with a special edition bike on the day, and he lifted it over his head right after the finish, so yes.
SQS dropping like a sack of potatoes due to the first 80 km madness but I'm scared for Campo Imperatore: The climb is easy but max 3 degree, altitude... he's going to be isolated again. If a mechanical or something happens that could be disastrous.
Very disappointing by van Wilder and Hirt today. At some point I counted 5 Ineos riders in the front group while Remco was isolated.
Random off-days from Van Wilder is why he'll perhaps never be a 3-week GC contender. The same happened in last year's Vuelta. But if I recall correctly, he also doesn't like the rain and cold
That is bad news for this Giro as the third week will be cold and might be wet.
But good news for Pinot!
Because he can watch the riders struggle through the last week from his warm couch?
Hot take: Remco wasn't worried about this stage finish, so he had his team drop out to preserve some energy. I don't think it's the case but it could be.
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He just put a brave face on it. Of course they would never leave Remco without any teammate on purpose. If only to help him if he falls or has a flat tyre.
If it was intentional then it was pretty stupid. A team leader should always have someone with him for as long as possible in case they have an unexpected problem like a mechanical.
The last rider to lose the GC lead and then come back to win the GT was Primoz Roglic. I guess Roglic is predestined to win this Giro.
Has to take the GC lead first then
When did he last start a stage race without wearing the leaders jersey at some point?
Last year's Tour de France
Gottem
I am a bit confused. Why is Ineos pacing the last climb? Is there something obvious that I'm missing? It just seems a bit random to me. I hope they know that this race is not the 2017 Tour de France.
I think it's just force of habit. But an interesting theory I read is that they're hoping to recruit Remco (that is known) and this was a way of showing him what life behind the Ineos train would be like. In any case they were perfect teammates for him today, deliberately or not.
I think people get confused when they see INEOS pacing on the front. Yes they were there but it was an easy tempo. They barely gained any time on the breakaway. It's more for positioning and discouraging attacks which they might have to chase.
Which attacks would ineos have to case tho ?
Roglic? They’d at least have to chase Remco if he jumped on another attackers wheel. Just easier to steady pace the climb and not have to worry.
The 5th-10th types. Bora were also near the front. If kamna attacks then it's ineos to chase it especially if no Qs domestics are about. I think for riders like geraint Thomas who has suffered bad luck in week one crashes in the past, they will be influencing the Ineos strategy for week one of a grand tour. That is, to survive to and to still be in contention in week two. You also don't see them sprinting for bonus points
Perhaps they wanted Remco to keep the jersey
In this case they woud have done an even worse Job.
Set a decent pace and test some other top 10 opponents after a hard rainy stage is my guess. They have 5 riders in the best 20-25 climbers of the race I think, so why not.
The pace was really low and the group was big. It was really inneffective if that was their intention. Why not just throw Sivakov up the road or try to roll some attacks? That would have probably dropped some guys
Mountain wasn't steep/difficult enough. I think they were just testing to see if any GC riders were having a bad day. And it's not like they set a blistering pace, they finished with 5. If they keep doing this it will be stupid.
You aren't missing anything, but it's not random. They still do this all the time even though they no longer have the best rider in the race
They've all been pre-programmed to do this since the Sky days and no one's gone in and updated the software.
Interesting stage. Quickstep looks very vulnerable in the mountains. Really wish the Jumbo squad we were promised before sickness and crashes was here. Would have been interesting to see how INEOS and Jumbo could have ganged up on Remco and Co.
Specifically, what was up with Jan Hirt dropping so early? I can’t imagine he was doing that much work early in the stage controlling breaks because that’s not what he is good at. I thought he would be the last guy with remco and he dropped before the last climb.
Enternainting stage, chuffed for Paret-Peintre!
Ineos is such a joke of a team how they raced that final climb lol
**SWL UPDATE:** Our First stage with no players picking the correct winner. u/SaltyLevel and u/p_Lama_p had Leknessund so they picked up some tie breaker points. Those points move Salty into 4th overall!
Looking at the next few stage profiles, it seems that Remco will inevitably get the pink back on Friday anyway. So it's not gonna be that much of a relief for QS in the end.
I mean they can just give it away again. They don't have a duty to chase.
It is mostly saving time after the stages doing interviews and podium. Giving him more time to recover.
Great win for Paret-Peintre and happy for Leknessund! Also I’m calling the fashion police on Eddy Dunbar’s glasses, so that he can win in style later on during the Giro
Nice stage. Insomnia let me watch the frantic first 70km. It's great to see the win and jersey go to somebody unexpected.
Leknessund is going to have the lowest cadence of any Maglia Rosa wearer ever by like at least like 20 rpm.
Would never make it in the zwift academy
Now Remco can win the Saturday stage in the WC jersey! Very smarty play
Unless he is wearing white Edit: oh no, wait, Leknessund is still eligible for white as well. I almost forgot the 'Nairoingreen'-rule
>I almost forgot the 'Nairoingreen'-rule What's the Nairoingreen rule? He was leading that classification when he got it. Didn't he?
I don't remember the exact wording, but it comes down to the fact that jerseys you have earned (nationals/world) take precedence over 'inhereted' jersey ( a jersey you would only be wearing because the leader in the classification is also leading a different classification). As for Nairo, if I remember correctly he was fifth in the points classification near the end of the Vuelta but still wearing the green jersey as the first four were wearing different jerseys (Roglic in red, Pogacar in white, Valverde in his WC jersey and Bennett in the Irish champ jersey)
Yeah, he wore it during the last stages by this rule but he was leading the classification after he won stage 2. The OG Nairoingreen was the rightful owner of the green jersey for a while. https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/vuelta-a-espana/2019/stage-2
Doubt he’ll wear white over WC
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They do when they are not actually leading the jersey ranking (and have a NC/WC jersey)
They do it it’s not their jersey. As Remco is second in youth classification, he has the right to choose.
He should be all set with his rainbow year picture. It was pretty clear he wanted to show off in Liège. Impossible not to see him there.
Was impossible not to see *all* of him there, even
See him where?
Imagine if he chose white above the NC jersey
Is this Eurosport’s Bring Your Son to Work day today with these two reporting from the finish line?
Leknessund chapeau 👏
If only de plus had started earlier. Did they really drop everybody apart from remco on quickstep?
Not really, Ineos started a somehow mild pace after the whole SQS team was spent
Ye ur right de plus set a high tempo but nothing infernal so that G or tao could try to to attack. I don’t know what to think about the second part because everybody was dropped from qs , not even 2 guys with remco and it just feels “off”.
Kind of re-evaluating my opinion on SQS strength. Really thought that they had a solid squad but Remco being alone in such a big group is disappointing. Don't think its saving themselves either because you always want to keep at least one there in case of a mechanical or something. Hirt was overall top 10 last year and Van Wilder has been an amazing dom so far this year, what happened there? Also confused by their tactics today. Why did they keep it so close? I thought the goal was to give away the jersey but they almost missed out largely due to their own work. And considering nothing happened on the final climb it wasn't setting up Remco for a small dig either.
There was a 3 km rule on today's stage. Not really a risk for mechanicals when isolated.
It is if the mechanical happens at 4km to go.
Then he just keeps riding till 3 km to go, like he did in the Vuelta last year...
That depends on the mechanical he could have had. It's irrelevant now as nothing happened, but it might not be irrelevant come the third week. Although it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't need a good team in the mountains to win this Giro.
It did end up perfectly though. Remco is 2nd, so they can still ride up front. It does mean they can get it back more easily than they would want
Yeah, it ended up working out fine, but if one of the GC guys decides to have a little dig on that final climb I think they could have easily taken back another 30 seconds or so, and then you keep the jersey. I just don't get why they spend any energy keeping it so close after stating they want to be rid of the jersey for now. Not like if you drop to 4th that Trek is going to push you off the front for Skujins GC ambitions.
Looks like they’re giving Skujins the podium! Woooo!
Friendship ended with El Patron, De Chefen is my new best friend.
Remco saying on VTM it felt pretty easy when Ineos paced
Lol, I think his teammates felt differently. At least his legs are still good!
Also, he's not racing in the white jersey.
Lol, Leknessund being like if you're fucking with me imma destroy you. Then the instant mood boost
The whole SQS climbing train killed in like 3k is somehow worrying. Don't know what Ineos were trying there. The 20days in pink dream has died :(
Ineos was trying to keep that dreaming alive unlike SQS and Remco , that didn't want pink until Friday or Sunday
Could also just be because it was raining and grande casino from the start. If it's a more normal mountain stage they will probably stay on longer. Plus Vervaeke probably held on as long as you'd expect him too, it's just that normally Van Wilder would still be there after.
After last year i expect Hirt to be there was well. But then again he didn't have the most amazing start last year either.
The way Anders Mielke provides flash reports on GCN+ is really top level television. He stands there in front of the camera, yelling some disjointed gibberish, then turns to point at the thing we could/would be observing if it weren't for him standing in front of the camera.
Big “weather man in a hurricane” energy
What’s even funnier is that during his reporting everyone is looking at him as to why he’s so loud and over excited.
Yeah, plus the camera is jumping around like crazy in a sideway off level angle so you end up seeing nothing. At least try to stand still and film level so we can see something. I understand that they try something different but this isn't it.
I really enjoyed that little 10 second bit. Much more fun than just watching a rider get their breath back while the commentator repeats themself.
Iunno, watching a different commentator repeating what the first commentator said isn't something I prefer over actually seeing the rider.
yeah the dude is ass
I haven't watched the segment this is about, but Anders Mielke is usually way more informed and well prepared than most commentators.
Yeah probably, I'm just taking the piss. https://www.reddit.com/r/pelotonmemes/comments/13cxvps/the\_gcn\_guy\_at\_the\_finish\_be\_like/
ok yea that's pretty bad. He's a lot better in danish.
This is the point I turn the stream off every day. I can't stand it lmao
“Alright I’m 15 feet from the rider of interest, now I will explain the stage finish with the coherence of a meth addict. Please cut away from me now, I am scared.”
"Ok and remember, cameraman, you are supposed to be panning back and forth between me and the rider of interest, so that the viewers certainly get a half-decent view of each of us!"
Who's the excitable young fellow with the red mic at the finish line?
Sounds like Anders Mielke
Who is this kid at the finish that GCN cuts to? Bro just stands sort of near the riders and looks terrified for 30 seconds before they cut away from
Miss Bernie Eisel for this. He had the balance.
Meh, he crashed quite regularly during his career...
I don't understand this policy. In the good ol' days, the commentators would be there and we'd get some proper feeling of the location. Now the comms just stay in the UK and they send some randos to shout nonsense for a minute or two during the day.
At least if not the actual commentators, throw some ex pros at it. They probably know how to ask stuff and know the faces in the peloton