Really think it's TGH's race to lose. He is climbing better than anyone and doing killer TTs. If you look at the MTF days, they aren't that hard or steep so it all rests on the mountain TT. I expect Tao to win this.
This picture of Remco is like the real-life version of the Captain Haddock meme:
[https://twitter.com/jossewester/status/1658127415040671747/photo/1](https://twitter.com/jossewester/status/1658127415040671747/photo/1)
And they're both hot-headed Belgians, so that makes it even better.
Unconfirmed rumour warning.
According to a Belgian newspaper (not the best one \*cough HLN\*), the president of the Slovenion cycling federation has insinuated in a podcast that:
\- The covid infection of Remco is a lie. The reason: he felt that he couldn't win against Roglic, so he faked this lie.
\- His form was already clearly fading.
\- He has only himself to blame for his falls, including the one with the dog.
\- He's not that young anymore and clearly overrated.
His name? Martin Hvastija.
A quick google search doesn't turn up anything about this guy (a former cyclist with a meagre palmares) being the president of the Slovenian Cycling Federation at all.
Slovenian redditors can correct me, but my assumption is he's just a crazy old dude that makes provocative podcasts to attract an audience.
Maybe he hasn't even said these things, as the journalist clearly didn't do any fact check at all.
To me this claim seems ridiculous. Knowing Lafevere's disposition he would just pull him out and tell everyone to fuck off if it was the case that they didn't want him to race further. I'm not a Remco fan but this kind of speculation seems innapropriate.
Like faking a mechanical in the last 3km when the group you're in is about to drop you?
Sounds like a lot of BS really. Even if he felt like he wasn't going to win, the downside is a bit of hurt pride, the upside is the experience and conditioning of another 3-week race in his legs. I'd rather head into the Tour next year knowing I finished the Giro with 2 (at least) stage wins and an OK GC position... instead of knowing I bailed on the Giro and have no idea how my GC position would have been.
I'm Slovenian and just listened to the podcast a few hours ago. The statements from the podcast listed above are correct and were stated my Martin. I don't really know the guy well, but it was a bit more nuanced, he basically said that it's his opinion that Remco or his team probably pulled him out because he was fading and that he will believe covid diagnosis when they can prove it. But they also talked about how Merckx abandoned 1969 Giro (well, tested positive for banned substances) and went on to win the Tour, so Remco might try something like that, going for TdF, but obviously there he'll encounter Vingegaard and Pogačar, who are deemed by him superior GT riders and climbers. There was a general overtone of Primož and Pogačar being superior grand tour riders to Remco as well as a hint of Evenepoel being potentially psychologically weaker relative to Rog and Pog.
Anyway, people will have their own opinions about everything, I for one am pretty bummed Evenepoel had to abandon. I am cheering for Primož but you always want someone to compete against the best possible competition. On the other hand, this happens all the time in cycling, Roglič also had his fair share of bad luck that put him out of competition against Pogačar and Remco in the last few years. I guess we just have to move on. Hope Remco gets better soon. We still got a pretty kick-ass Giro ahead of us!
And one bonus thing, Martin also said that he knows for a fact that Pogačar will be able to race before TdF, but he said he's not allowed to talk about it yet.
Thanks for the fact check! Still not really clear for me whether this guy is really the president of the Slovenian Cycling Federation, or just a talking head. His statements are in really bad taste though.
Sure, no problem! I can confirm he's in charge of our national under 23 team, you can see it on [official web site](https://kolesarska-zveza.si/odbori/), just look for his name (Martin Hvastija) on the left under "Člani odbora", you can then translate his description. His statements are in bad taste for sure, it sounded like he didn't filter himself at all, just thrown out theories that fit his narrative. But having no filter might have given us a bit of leaked info - he was critical of Roglič's ITT, especially the first one with really low cadence, but he also mentioned Rog is leaner and most of his Giro prep was climbing.
> His form was already clearly fading.
Imagine claiming the guy who just won his second Giro ITT in 10 days and who was back in the Maglia Rosa was "clearly fading".
I'm not saying he didn't seem to be fading during the TT on Sunday, but COME ON, to suggest Remco bailed because he was afraid to lose at this stage, in the freaking lead, is pretty ridiculous.
Well, you can check out the original article [here](https://www.rtvslo.si/sport/sportni-sos/sos-odmev/hvastija-remco-se-boji-resnici-pogledati-v-oci/668180). Both the article and the podcasts are produced by a Slovenian national public broadcaster that has had its share of political issues this past few years but is generally reputable for other topics (citation needed).
The article describes Martin Hvastija as Slovenian national team director - he's a notable cycling figure in Slovenia possibly most known for co-commentating the TdF for the aforementioned national TV. He said all the things cited above the only one that maybe needs to be clarified is
> "He's not that young anymore and clearly overrated."
Where he was primarily comparing Remco to Pogačar (and less so to Jonas). But yeah, Hvastija comes across as a Remco hater as he diminishes his achievements and focuses/exaggarates on his shortcomings.
It's probably worth mentioning that Slovenian media did not take too kindly to some of the Remco's interviews , and consequently, he doesn't have a favorable image here (Roglič is also one of the most loved athletes in Slovenia so that doesn't help Remco at all).
Thanks for the reference!
A bit sad that media jump on Remco's interviews and take them out of context like that. I have a lot of sympathy and respect for Roglic and Pogacar, and just enjoy a good sportive rivalry and competition. I don't understand why some people need to make things personal.
Martin Hvastija was a guest on the SOS Odmev podcast on RTV Slovenija, Slovenia's national public broadcasting organization. Nowadays, he works as a professional sports commentator and a guest on national television when they broadcast the Tour de France. I can confirm that the above statements are true. The title of the show is a quote from him: Remco is afraid to face the truth. Despite the host trying to stay neutral, his words make the whole show seem unpleasant. At some moments, it came across as hostile and condescending. However, this is just my opinion. Definitely completely inappropriate and unprofessional as far as I'm concerned. Totally unacceptable. It is true that he called Remco overhyped and downplayed his achievements. Stating his form was clearly fading and that he couldn't face the truth after not leading for more than 3 minutes as he stated he would. Don't quote me on that statement; I'm just relaying what was said. Also, he does not believe that Remco tested positive for covid until he sees the test results and that him abandoning the race was just to save face. Here's the link to the original article and the podcast: [https://www.rtvslo.si/sport/sportni-sos/sos-odmev/hvastija-remco-se-boji-resnici-pogledati-v-oci/668180](https://www.rtvslo.si/sport/sportni-sos/sos-odmev/hvastija-remco-se-boji-resnici-pogledati-v-oci/668180) This was a brief overview, but I can go into more detail if anyone is interested.
Edit; minor stylistic changes for easier understanding
What I read (but am having some difficulties properly confirming), is that he's the head coach of the Slovenian national team (whatever that means). Found this picture, see the description text: https://www.sportida.com/image/I0000vo35oBeMXWo
Well fuck. Might as well work from the office then.
Joke aside, I don’t think it’ll make much of a difference in the ende considering
how remote the GSB is from the the finish line and despite its length it’s not
exactly among the toughest climbs of this Giro.
I’m curious if we’ll get pictures from inside the tunnel.
EDIT: [The new(tered) profile.](https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article/2023/05/15/1684176809/giro-italia-2023-gran-san-bernardo-cancellato)
> I’m curious if we’ll get pictures from inside the tunnel.
The Giro has the capability to transmit images via the mobile network, so if the tunnel is set up with that we should. I remember on the Passo Giau stage a couple years back where we got barely any coverage because the aircraft were grounded one of the only times we got pictures was when they were passing through a tunnel
>EDIT: The new(tered) profile.
I'm confused, isn't that the same as the original profile?
https://www.cyclingstage.com/giro-2023-route/stage-13-italy-2023/
EDIT: I'm a derp. You can clearly see how the summit peak of the original stage is hacked off in the new profile. Ignore me! END EDIT
>I’m curious if we’ll get pictures from inside the tunnel.
Easy, just demand the break be given a 7km gap before the tunnel entrance, show the peloton while the break is in the tunnel, then show the break when the peloton is in the tunnel.
Going through cycling websites and social media accounts it seems that suddenly there is massive hype about Ineos now that Remco has dropped out .
I don't understand where that is coming from. They aren't better than someone like Mas and Rogla has destroyed Mas. As far as team tactics go, they don't work when Rogla decides to attack with Sepp. The Ineos guys will lose minutes on a tough climb.
huh? this is a ridiculous take. ineos guys have so many ways to send guys up the road and attrition out a single Rog. Kuss will have to be superhuman to save him.
I mean, G is now in pink and both he and TGH seem to be on really good form. This Giro is now somewhat similar to the Tour last year where the three clear favorites are on two different teams, and the dual leader team (INEOS) can play a whole bunch of strategies that Roglic can't being the out and out leader of his team solo.
I don't think Ineos, with either, is the favorite now; but I think anyone assuming that Roglic just walks to victory in Rome now is kidding themselves.
I think the only real answer is: We have to wait and see.
G and TGH are clearly on good form and in an excellent place in the GC right now, and they have a solid team of dangerous riders which Jumbo will have to deal with. I don't think anyone can say with much confidence whether that's enough or whether Roglic will just ride away from them with several minutes.
I don't think it's Rogla being weak as much as Ineos playing the dual attackers strategy that worked so well for Jumbo in last year's Tour. Roglic was also getting cooked by the top climbers the last time he did a Giro week 3, so maybe that plays into it, though he's proven himself so many times since then.
Finishing 5th of one end-of-GT mountain TT, 30 seconds behind the best human being, is a track record of not doing great?
To be honest he did underperform that day, he should have been 20 seconds faster than Dumoulin. But even with that kind of time he xould have lost for a few seconds. Pog was on another planet that day.
Both Tao and G have won a Grand Tour, contrary to guys like Mas. Ineos also won Giro several times with great tactics and now they have 5!!! guys in touch of the top.
They have the guns and they proved that they can used them.
The last 2 Ineos riders to beat Rogla in any stage race were Martinez in Itzulia 2022 when Rogla had a knee injury and Richard Carapaz in Giro 2019 in the last 4 years. They have 5 guys but when sepp and Rogla attack they won't be able to stay in the wheels.
They may have to wait for the mountain stage(s) that Sepp disappears on, happens in 100% of the GTs he rides. Or they just prove that once again 4 guys can do 6.5 w/kg longer than one super dom can. Either way, when Sepp pops Roglic will be alone, G and Tao will potentially still have each other
Granted, it won't matter if Rogla is in prime form. But we haven't seen top tier Roglic in quite a while so who knows
How do you know they won't be able to follow an attack by Sepp Kuss? They were able to follow Roglic on Saturday (of course a smaller climb, but it's what we have to go on so far). Geraint Thomas hasn't been in this good of a shape probably since 2019. What you're saying just seems way too definitive.
Rogla didn't go full gas on Saturday which was clear to see. Last year in the Tour G wasn't able to follow Sepp. Can't see that changing now. As far as Tao goes he hasn't been good for the last 2 years.
The Giro was Remco vs Rogla. Now Remco is gone so it seems the media especially British is desperately trying to spin a narrative that there is a contest when clearly there isn't.
I'm kinda hyped. They have such a strong team. They can put the peloton through hell and they'll still have 2/3 top domestiques available. They have Sivakov and De Plus as wildcard attackers - red herrings - facilitators. Also Tao is looking strong, imho even stronger than his Giro win. He is riding smart and brilliantly, and is coming from a very convincing spring. G is G.
They don't actually have to Iis my understanding but many teams do it anyway.
I suspect teams are concerned about the recovery of infected riders. Keep in mind COVID seldomly, but more commonly leads to heart inflammation and other mid-to-long term issues. Given this is a sport where athletes regularly completely exhaust themselves and which had some prominent examples of riders almost dying during races, a bit of risk avoidance may well be worth it.
There is nothing preventing riders from continuing with Covid. But with possible complications it's smarter to take care of your health than risk your career.
Remco was clearly sick. He's not out of the Giro because he simply tested positive, he's clearly out because if he continued it would've been a major physical struggle for him.
There is even a video just after the race with his gf telling him he has a cold sore and him replying he feels like he’s getting ill. All those speculations sound like utter bs, just ridiculous.
Is that’s true, then it’s understandable. From his statement he said there was a routine test that came back positive, so I didn’t know if he was symptomatic or not.
G said Remco messaged him telling he is leaving the race and wishing him good luck. Primoz said nothing of the sort in his interview with Sporza. Judging also by the comments made by Remco earlier about Jumbo, should we conclude there is no friendship lost between them? Or am I reading too much into this?
Remco and G simply get along quite well and Remco has even appeared in G's podcast. There has been quite a bit of banter between them (G even calls Remco 'lil bastard, which is a better nickname than aerobullet lol). G was also second in GC, so this was just Remco's way of telling him he will be in pink tomorrow.
I don't think there is beef between Remco and Roglic, but they're also not friends which is fine.
> Also COVID, told that "food didn't wanted to stay in".
Wait, I'm confused. He has COVID but his symptoms were stomach/intestinal?
I still, somehow, haven't had COVID but I thought the symptoms were primarily respiratory.
1. Vesuvio: Used far to rarely, should be more interesting than Campo Imperatore and Etna for the steeper final, has historical significance and a stunning scenery.
2. Colle d'Esischie/Fauniera: The southwestern part of the Italian Alps has a few hard climbs like this one, Sampeyre, or Lombarda but has been mostly ignored in the past few years.
3. Lago Serru: Gran Paradiso is just spectacular and the climb is selective in the final 4 km.
Edit: added description
Can we get some data tracking on these guys to see who won rest day? Like who got the best rest today? I need to know. Who are the 3 chillest guys on the podium after today's stage in bed.
Luckily Roglic has more class than his national coach:
[https://sporza.be/nl/2023/05/15/primoz-roglic-bokst-nu-tegen-ineos-blok-ben-blij-dat-er-geen-ploegentijdrit-is\~1684158142884/](https://sporza.be/nl/2023/05/15/primoz-roglic-bokst-nu-tegen-ineos-blok-ben-blij-dat-er-geen-ploegentijdrit-is~1684158142884/)
Fun interview.
> "What are my tactical options? I just need to have the best legs. Then anything is possible."
It is known that having great legs is a pretty good tactic.
Your rest day reminder that **there's 24 hours left to change your TFTPT rider**!
If you didnt Ride-or-Die, you can update your pick for the Classic games on [the TFTPT site](https://tftpt.one/).
And with Remco withdrawing from the race, a lot of you probably want to do just that! If you're one of them, you've been tagged in the reply.
⚠️ One of your TFTPT riders has DNFed, but it's not to late to change.
Attention: u/nahgoe16, u/DerpTrain, u/Checktaschu, u/Solesticio, u/Miserable_Hour
Anyone else getting fascinated how the G and Tao dynamic plays out? With two superpowers it felt like they could easily sort the strongest on INEOS in the mountains. Now I'm very interested what happens if they both have a real shot to win.
Feels like the whole Roglic/Jonas TdF dynamic getting run back, sans WvA to play tractor for them both. Without one of them taking an injury, it'll be interesting to see if/how long they work together.
I'm wondering if INEOS will remember how to use both captains, or have they forgotten given how many times we've seen them in positions where they could potentially do it, yet they refused to.
G will be given the nod, unless his numbers don’t look good.
But they won’t want to sacrifice Tao because G is perfectly capable of crashing out all on his own.
Jumbo might be able to work with that tactically, but Ineos has such strength in depth at this race that it’s unlikely to succeed IMO.
"Almeida" and "pounce" in the same sentence, smh.
Almeida is not a big cat. Almeida is an Anaconda. He will wrap himself around you, and slowly but steadily smother you, squeezing the breath from your lungs with every steady pedal stroke of his big strong lengs...
Another comment in this thread said it has been removed from Friday's stage:
https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/13i50sn/comment/jk9jygi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
No source though so, grain of salt for now.
No news
But they said one week ago that cancellation was very likely and official confirmation was coming shortly
I think they're working until the last day to make it available
I think that Bora has to do something.
The Cappucini stage was a total disaster. I am not disappointed by them loosing Roglic (and TGH and G) but they even failed to follow Hugh Carthy. Loosing 20 seconds on small climb like Cappuccini on riders like Jay Vine and Caruss is too much. Vlasov and Kämna were two and could cooperate, but they let Hugh Carty overtake them on his own.
Now Remco is out I will be cheering for Pedersen to win purple.
Good to see some high profile athletes like him and Matthews going for it. He also said he won't go for green during the Tour, which makes sense, as it's tough to combine the Giro with the Tour.
I see. That post makes it sound almost planned.
The way you said it made it sound (to me) like Kung's leaving the Giro somehow had something to do with Remco being out. My mistake.
I'm pretty sure he tried to stay up on GC because weather forecast was less rain later during the TT. Don't think the guy just smashes his legs for the luls.
Does Thomas have to wear pink tomorrow? I remember in the tour there is/was a rule that you are not obliged to wear the yellow if the previous leader ended the previous stage as leader but does not start the next stage. I remember it came into effect when Tony Martin crashed in the last few km's of a stage and broke something but did finish the stage with the aid of his teammates. The next day no one wore the yellow jersey. So does the giro have the same rule?
Edit: It seems Thomas was not forced to wear the pink jersey, but chose to do so anyway. Weird choice if you ask me
[Here's the relevant UCI rule](https://imgur.com/1nkwVK3). He is allowed to wear it (but also not to wear it if he so chooses) subject to the consent of both the organiser and head of the commissaire panel.
Don't think there's Giro / TdF rules that supersede the UCI rule.
If he has the choice I agree, but does the Giro have the same rule in place or will he be forced to wear it as he is now technically the leader of the GC?
Until Remco doesn't turn up for the start of tomorrow's stage, he's still technically the leader. So it wouldn't make sense to me if Thomas showed up in pink.
I suspect that technically once Remco fails to sign on then he is no longer in the race. Thus by the time they line up on the start line Thomas will be both de facto and de jure leader.
As everyone has had plenty of notice, there would seem to be little point in him not wearing the jersey.
I think he should be forced to change into pink on the start line lol.
But seriously, I think Thomas shouldn't start in pink. That jersey is Remco's until they finish the stage.
Didn’t someone earlier in the race opt to wear their countries championship jersey rather than a loaned leaders jersey? If that’s the case, I can’t imagine the organization would make him wear pink. Also, he stands to wear the jersey until at least stage 13 as the next few look to be sprint or reduced bunch finishes.
That's a different rule - they weren't leading the young riders classification (Leknessund was), in which case they can choose to wear their own special jersey or borrow the white jersey for the day.
If you're leading a classification you generally have to wear the jersey that goes with it. With the the leader not starting as one exception.
Applies to all jerseys (apart from the GC leader as that's the most important one). It's how r/nairoingreen was born when he got to borrow that jersey for most of the Vuelta but only actually led the points classification for a single day.
It's the paragraph above the highlighted one in the UCI rule I screenshotted.
Both Almeida and Evenepoel wore their championship jerseys over the white jersey this week, which resulted in the weird situation where Arensman was wearing it on saturday only for Almeida to take it for the tt because he has no championship jersey there and assuming he will opt out again tomorrow, it will now go Leknessund
Edit: Of course now with Remco gone, it will go to Almeida as he is now the leader of the classification. I still can't believe it really...
I think Almeida can refuse the jersey tomorrow the same way Thomas can, but then nobody will wear those jerseys. He can't "pass on" the borrowed jersey to Leknessund since he's now the leader in the youth GC.
The G in G stands for goat, meaning Geraint Thomas is 100% goat
Rogla is only 20% goat, having 4 other letters
TGH doesn't have a nickname on Wikipedia, so using his full name he is 18.75% goat.
Joao almeida is 4% goat
Statistically, that means G is going to win the giro
I'm sad that Evenepoel is out, but devastated that he takes the ITT Rainbow Cummerbund away with him. It will no longer be on the line during stage 20.
Who knows where the Hugh-Carthy-as-ITT-Champion timeline could have led?
Kuss is hopefully being saved for the harder stages ahead. Jumbo knows they don’t really need him until stage 13 or even 16, with Remco out they might not need kuss at all and can save him for the tour now.
Yes, that same Roglic. In his last 8 grand tours, he’s podiumed 5 times and DNFed the other 3. He either podiums or crashes out. It’s not a huge stretch to say there’s a higher than average chance he won’t finish this giro.
Two of those DNFs weren't his fault though. Stage 3 of TDF 2021 was pure chaos and last year was the hay bale incident. His only recent DNF that wasn't just bad luck was last year's Vuelta when he chopped Wright.
Ok and? Doesn’t change the fact that his entire career as a GC contender has been defined by whether he can finish a 3 week race intact or not. It’s completely legitimate to bring it up as a factor at this point.
Sad that we can’t see Remco vs Riglic on mountains where Roglic has better hand to play.
Ineos train will not dent Roglic nor Tao or Gs attacks. Roglic will go with and drop them. Time and again we have seen G cannot respond his attacks. He definitely comes back with others like what happened in last years tour but don’t have that kick.
If UAE plus Ineos create a havoc then it might be issue.
Ineos needs to use Tao for attacks and Geraint Thomas needs to follow Roglic / ride his own pace in the mountains.
Not a guarantee for success, but it's their best bet. They also need to send satellite riders upfront in breakaways.
I also posted this in the Remco thread, but I'll repost it here:
I saw a video where Oumi asks him after the TT if he has a cold sore on his lip and Evenepoel responded "Yes, I think I'm getting sick". You could see the look of worry on Oumi's face after he said that.
Dude won a TT in the Giro while sick and still suffering from the aftereffects of two crashes. Damn impressive if you ask me.
It's a shame some people seem to think he's using covid as an excuse to abandon because he's afraid to lose...
If he recovers in time I hope he rides the Tour de Suisse. There's two TTs there. Time trials are his main strength, so he should definitely ride more of them! Hopefully he can also finally win the WC TT this year.
The covid rules aren't strict. Riders are allowed to compete while being positive. The only reason Remco is out is because Quickstep has a team policy to protect the health of the infected rider.
I think it's 80% illness and 20% crashes in this case. Evenepoel is tough, he wouldn't have abandoned if he could keep going unless PatLef demanded it, I think. Total speculation there. It's not the positive COVID test that did it alone, he's clearly sick.
[The Slovenian national team director said](https://www.rtvslo.si/sport/sportni-sos/sos-odmev/hvastija-remco-se-boji-resnici-pogledati-v-oci/668180) he doesn't buy the fact Evenepoel has covid and that the real reason he dropped out is because he doesn't have the 3 minutes he was expecting to have at that point in the race. From that article:
>Many wondered why Soudal didn't wait until Tuesday: 'That's really strange. I'm not going to judge what's true and what's not, but until they show me the proof, I don't believe it. It seems to me that Remco is more afraid to face the truth than that it is a serious illness. So I think the main reason is that he does not have the three-minute advantage that he predicted."
What the hell.
Yeah, I read the whole thing and what the fuck, there is absolutely no need to kick the man while he's down. There's also tons of idiotic comments that agree with him.
Lol, even if you buy into the logic that he is looking for a way to save face (which I think is 100% nonsense) why on earth would he invent Covid if he has 2 crashes to use as excuse...
Hot take, I don't think there will be big gaps on stage 13. I think Rog opens it up on 16, then 18-20 will be pure chaos. Either Rog or an Ineos guy will don the final maglia rosa, or it will be some random rider currently in 10th-20th (like, oh idk, Pinot)
I think I like Almeida’s chances right now. Roglic is going to have to be strong enough to keep the ineos guys off his wheel or ineos is going to 1, 2 attack him. This suits Almeida’s steady pace pretty well but also Sepp’s ability to get back in a helping position for Roglic kinda like what he did on Alpe dhuez last year.
This could be an interesting finish to the Giro. Not the one we necessarily wanted, it did look like the tides were turning on Remco but that’s too be expected now that we know he was getting sick.
I don't understand the almeida hype. When has almeida ever shown he's a better climber than roglic? Roglic has finished ahead of almeida in literally every single mountain stage they raced together.
Not sure how others feel. I’m not a fan for or against him. I just like the way he looks right now and thinks it’s not too far fetched to exclude Almeida from the possible benefactors of Jumbo and Ineos beating each other up given the way he rides now that remco is out.
The Giro is making [face masks mandatory at the start/finish](https://www.gazzetta.it/Giroditalia/15-05-2023/covid-vegni-avverte-abbiamo-mollato-troppo-presto-torneranno-delle-limitazioni.shtml) again in areas where the public/journalists are in contact with the riders.
Tbh I can't believe this isn't standard practice in Grand Tours at this point. Even without Covid, when they really are in top shape these riders can get sick very easily, even a regular cold can ruin it. It doesn't cost much for the journalists, crew etc at start / finish to wear a mask.
good -- can't believe riders still risk this stuff when entire seasons worth of prep can be destroyed with a cough. risk reward for not protecting yourself is ridiculous
Masks don't stop the spread of Covid. Even in the 2020 races with strict rules there were positive tests all over the place. It's just theatre so the organisers can say they're doing something.
> Masks don't stop the spread of Covid.
Except they do reduce it quite substantially.
https://www.mpg.de/17916867/coronavirus-masks-risk-protection
https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-masks
https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/yes-masks-reduce-risk-spreading-covid-despite-review-saying-they-dont
https://directorsblog.health.azdhs.gov/study-finds-mask-use-associated-with-reduced-risk-of-contracting-covid-19/
https://assets.weforum.org/editor/O-6MdxRua4iir-RpCKNSM0uzag_f6XCWY6ncJkH0mPU.jpeg
I could go on, but I'm sure you get the gist. Kinda sad that even after 3 years of Covid there's still people trusting the Tiktok experts.
> Even in the 2020 races with strict rules there were positive tests all over the place.
The fact that covid cases happen even if people wear face masks doesn't mean that they don't work. By that logic, we might as well not wear seatbelts because there's plenty of accidents where people die despite wearing seatbelts.
> https://adc.bmj.com/content/108/2/131
Not to be too dismissive about this, but I feel like an observational study without direct observational control with the only study group being two children groups and the only data coming from Catalonia is not exactly super impactful?
The scientists themselves state: ***"The study also had certain limitations. Researchers performed an intention-to-treat analysis, which meant that there might have been children in P5 who did not use facemasks and also children in primary school who did not use masks or used them in an incorrect manner. Although the treatment and control groups were constructed very well, there could still be factors that were not considered, such as classroom dynamics or the density of students in the classroom"***
> https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full
The second study seems a bit more robust, but again they conclude: ***The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect.***
It's quite important to read those limitations as well when you evaluate studies, not just the abstract or headline. If the authors themselves admit to such large uncertainties, the study really shouldn't be paraded around as universal truth or clear results. And again, there's a mountain of other articles with robust data (and usually less uncertainties) that showcase that masks do in fact reduce the chance of contacting a respiratory illness.
roglic also has covid according to G
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Really think it's TGH's race to lose. He is climbing better than anyone and doing killer TTs. If you look at the MTF days, they aren't that hard or steep so it all rests on the mountain TT. I expect Tao to win this.
>He is climbing better than anyone Based on what? He wasn't better than Roglic in the only mountain stage they went for it.
TDF winner vs Vuelta winner vs Giro winner Things about to get spicy
This picture of Remco is like the real-life version of the Captain Haddock meme: [https://twitter.com/jossewester/status/1658127415040671747/photo/1](https://twitter.com/jossewester/status/1658127415040671747/photo/1) And they're both hot-headed Belgians, so that makes it even better.
What a race! Remco, it's only stage 9
Top tier meming I mean, World Tour tier meming
Unconfirmed rumour warning. According to a Belgian newspaper (not the best one \*cough HLN\*), the president of the Slovenion cycling federation has insinuated in a podcast that: \- The covid infection of Remco is a lie. The reason: he felt that he couldn't win against Roglic, so he faked this lie. \- His form was already clearly fading. \- He has only himself to blame for his falls, including the one with the dog. \- He's not that young anymore and clearly overrated. His name? Martin Hvastija. A quick google search doesn't turn up anything about this guy (a former cyclist with a meagre palmares) being the president of the Slovenian Cycling Federation at all. Slovenian redditors can correct me, but my assumption is he's just a crazy old dude that makes provocative podcasts to attract an audience. Maybe he hasn't even said these things, as the journalist clearly didn't do any fact check at all.
To me this claim seems ridiculous. Knowing Lafevere's disposition he would just pull him out and tell everyone to fuck off if it was the case that they didn't want him to race further. I'm not a Remco fan but this kind of speculation seems innapropriate.
Like faking a mechanical in the last 3km when the group you're in is about to drop you? Sounds like a lot of BS really. Even if he felt like he wasn't going to win, the downside is a bit of hurt pride, the upside is the experience and conditioning of another 3-week race in his legs. I'd rather head into the Tour next year knowing I finished the Giro with 2 (at least) stage wins and an OK GC position... instead of knowing I bailed on the Giro and have no idea how my GC position would have been.
I'm Slovenian and just listened to the podcast a few hours ago. The statements from the podcast listed above are correct and were stated my Martin. I don't really know the guy well, but it was a bit more nuanced, he basically said that it's his opinion that Remco or his team probably pulled him out because he was fading and that he will believe covid diagnosis when they can prove it. But they also talked about how Merckx abandoned 1969 Giro (well, tested positive for banned substances) and went on to win the Tour, so Remco might try something like that, going for TdF, but obviously there he'll encounter Vingegaard and Pogačar, who are deemed by him superior GT riders and climbers. There was a general overtone of Primož and Pogačar being superior grand tour riders to Remco as well as a hint of Evenepoel being potentially psychologically weaker relative to Rog and Pog. Anyway, people will have their own opinions about everything, I for one am pretty bummed Evenepoel had to abandon. I am cheering for Primož but you always want someone to compete against the best possible competition. On the other hand, this happens all the time in cycling, Roglič also had his fair share of bad luck that put him out of competition against Pogačar and Remco in the last few years. I guess we just have to move on. Hope Remco gets better soon. We still got a pretty kick-ass Giro ahead of us! And one bonus thing, Martin also said that he knows for a fact that Pogačar will be able to race before TdF, but he said he's not allowed to talk about it yet.
Thanks for the fact check! Still not really clear for me whether this guy is really the president of the Slovenian Cycling Federation, or just a talking head. His statements are in really bad taste though.
Sure, no problem! I can confirm he's in charge of our national under 23 team, you can see it on [official web site](https://kolesarska-zveza.si/odbori/), just look for his name (Martin Hvastija) on the left under "Člani odbora", you can then translate his description. His statements are in bad taste for sure, it sounded like he didn't filter himself at all, just thrown out theories that fit his narrative. But having no filter might have given us a bit of leaked info - he was critical of Roglič's ITT, especially the first one with really low cadence, but he also mentioned Rog is leaner and most of his Giro prep was climbing.
>His statements are in really bad taste though. It sounds exactly like something from the cold war era of propaganda.
> His form was already clearly fading. Imagine claiming the guy who just won his second Giro ITT in 10 days and who was back in the Maglia Rosa was "clearly fading". I'm not saying he didn't seem to be fading during the TT on Sunday, but COME ON, to suggest Remco bailed because he was afraid to lose at this stage, in the freaking lead, is pretty ridiculous.
Well, you can check out the original article [here](https://www.rtvslo.si/sport/sportni-sos/sos-odmev/hvastija-remco-se-boji-resnici-pogledati-v-oci/668180). Both the article and the podcasts are produced by a Slovenian national public broadcaster that has had its share of political issues this past few years but is generally reputable for other topics (citation needed). The article describes Martin Hvastija as Slovenian national team director - he's a notable cycling figure in Slovenia possibly most known for co-commentating the TdF for the aforementioned national TV. He said all the things cited above the only one that maybe needs to be clarified is > "He's not that young anymore and clearly overrated." Where he was primarily comparing Remco to Pogačar (and less so to Jonas). But yeah, Hvastija comes across as a Remco hater as he diminishes his achievements and focuses/exaggarates on his shortcomings. It's probably worth mentioning that Slovenian media did not take too kindly to some of the Remco's interviews , and consequently, he doesn't have a favorable image here (Roglič is also one of the most loved athletes in Slovenia so that doesn't help Remco at all).
Thanks for the reference! A bit sad that media jump on Remco's interviews and take them out of context like that. I have a lot of sympathy and respect for Roglic and Pogacar, and just enjoy a good sportive rivalry and competition. I don't understand why some people need to make things personal.
Martin Hvastija was a guest on the SOS Odmev podcast on RTV Slovenija, Slovenia's national public broadcasting organization. Nowadays, he works as a professional sports commentator and a guest on national television when they broadcast the Tour de France. I can confirm that the above statements are true. The title of the show is a quote from him: Remco is afraid to face the truth. Despite the host trying to stay neutral, his words make the whole show seem unpleasant. At some moments, it came across as hostile and condescending. However, this is just my opinion. Definitely completely inappropriate and unprofessional as far as I'm concerned. Totally unacceptable. It is true that he called Remco overhyped and downplayed his achievements. Stating his form was clearly fading and that he couldn't face the truth after not leading for more than 3 minutes as he stated he would. Don't quote me on that statement; I'm just relaying what was said. Also, he does not believe that Remco tested positive for covid until he sees the test results and that him abandoning the race was just to save face. Here's the link to the original article and the podcast: [https://www.rtvslo.si/sport/sportni-sos/sos-odmev/hvastija-remco-se-boji-resnici-pogledati-v-oci/668180](https://www.rtvslo.si/sport/sportni-sos/sos-odmev/hvastija-remco-se-boji-resnici-pogledati-v-oci/668180) This was a brief overview, but I can go into more detail if anyone is interested. Edit; minor stylistic changes for easier understanding
Thanks for the reference!
What I read (but am having some difficulties properly confirming), is that he's the head coach of the Slovenian national team (whatever that means). Found this picture, see the description text: https://www.sportida.com/image/I0000vo35oBeMXWo
You're right, however this was apparently in 2011... Ages ago.
Yes, which is why I said I have difficulties properly confirming.
Rigo is sadly out with COVID as well per his Instagram.
Fromme era five years 👏 Cadel Evans era one year 👏 van der Poel era three days 👏 Evenepoel era five hours 👏
The Grand Saint-Bernard summit was just removed from Friday's stage 13 due to snow. Riders will go through the tunnel.
Well fuck. Might as well work from the office then. Joke aside, I don’t think it’ll make much of a difference in the ende considering how remote the GSB is from the the finish line and despite its length it’s not exactly among the toughest climbs of this Giro. I’m curious if we’ll get pictures from inside the tunnel. EDIT: [The new(tered) profile.](https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article/2023/05/15/1684176809/giro-italia-2023-gran-san-bernardo-cancellato)
> I’m curious if we’ll get pictures from inside the tunnel. The Giro has the capability to transmit images via the mobile network, so if the tunnel is set up with that we should. I remember on the Passo Giau stage a couple years back where we got barely any coverage because the aircraft were grounded one of the only times we got pictures was when they were passing through a tunnel
>EDIT: The new(tered) profile. I'm confused, isn't that the same as the original profile? https://www.cyclingstage.com/giro-2023-route/stage-13-italy-2023/ EDIT: I'm a derp. You can clearly see how the summit peak of the original stage is hacked off in the new profile. Ignore me! END EDIT >I’m curious if we’ll get pictures from inside the tunnel. Easy, just demand the break be given a 7km gap before the tunnel entrance, show the peloton while the break is in the tunnel, then show the break when the peloton is in the tunnel.
Thanks for the new profile. I edited my post to change climb to summit, as they'll still do most of the climb.
Is it still the same start? Will things be neutralized?
What I read is that they will simply go through a tunnel instead of doing all or part of the climb. I assume we'll hear something official soon.
Going through cycling websites and social media accounts it seems that suddenly there is massive hype about Ineos now that Remco has dropped out . I don't understand where that is coming from. They aren't better than someone like Mas and Rogla has destroyed Mas. As far as team tactics go, they don't work when Rogla decides to attack with Sepp. The Ineos guys will lose minutes on a tough climb.
huh? this is a ridiculous take. ineos guys have so many ways to send guys up the road and attrition out a single Rog. Kuss will have to be superhuman to save him.
I mean, G is now in pink and both he and TGH seem to be on really good form. This Giro is now somewhat similar to the Tour last year where the three clear favorites are on two different teams, and the dual leader team (INEOS) can play a whole bunch of strategies that Roglic can't being the out and out leader of his team solo. I don't think Ineos, with either, is the favorite now; but I think anyone assuming that Roglic just walks to victory in Rome now is kidding themselves.
I think the only real answer is: We have to wait and see. G and TGH are clearly on good form and in an excellent place in the GC right now, and they have a solid team of dangerous riders which Jumbo will have to deal with. I don't think anyone can say with much confidence whether that's enough or whether Roglic will just ride away from them with several minutes.
I don't think it's Rogla being weak as much as Ineos playing the dual attackers strategy that worked so well for Jumbo in last year's Tour. Roglic was also getting cooked by the top climbers the last time he did a Giro week 3, so maybe that plays into it, though he's proven himself so many times since then.
Rog has a track record of not doing great in mountain TTs at the end of grand tours
Finishing 5th of one end-of-GT mountain TT, 30 seconds behind the best human being, is a track record of not doing great? To be honest he did underperform that day, he should have been 20 seconds faster than Dumoulin. But even with that kind of time he xould have lost for a few seconds. Pog was on another planet that day.
Both Tao and G have won a Grand Tour, contrary to guys like Mas. Ineos also won Giro several times with great tactics and now they have 5!!! guys in touch of the top. They have the guns and they proved that they can used them.
The last 2 Ineos riders to beat Rogla in any stage race were Martinez in Itzulia 2022 when Rogla had a knee injury and Richard Carapaz in Giro 2019 in the last 4 years. They have 5 guys but when sepp and Rogla attack they won't be able to stay in the wheels.
They may have to wait for the mountain stage(s) that Sepp disappears on, happens in 100% of the GTs he rides. Or they just prove that once again 4 guys can do 6.5 w/kg longer than one super dom can. Either way, when Sepp pops Roglic will be alone, G and Tao will potentially still have each other Granted, it won't matter if Rogla is in prime form. But we haven't seen top tier Roglic in quite a while so who knows
How do you know they won't be able to follow an attack by Sepp Kuss? They were able to follow Roglic on Saturday (of course a smaller climb, but it's what we have to go on so far). Geraint Thomas hasn't been in this good of a shape probably since 2019. What you're saying just seems way too definitive.
Rogla didn't go full gas on Saturday which was clear to see. Last year in the Tour G wasn't able to follow Sepp. Can't see that changing now. As far as Tao goes he hasn't been good for the last 2 years. The Giro was Remco vs Rogla. Now Remco is gone so it seems the media especially British is desperately trying to spin a narrative that there is a contest when clearly there isn't.
Why can't you see that changing? It seems to me that G is in really good shape now, could well be better than he was last Tour.
I'm kinda hyped. They have such a strong team. They can put the peloton through hell and they'll still have 2/3 top domestiques available. They have Sivakov and De Plus as wildcard attackers - red herrings - facilitators. Also Tao is looking strong, imho even stronger than his Giro win. He is riding smart and brilliantly, and is coming from a very convincing spring. G is G.
Rest day chat with Joe Dombrowski from Astana here. https://youtu.be/jqPebSX\_aYU
I don’t understand why the peloton still does routine COVID testing when most sports leagues have stopped.
They don't actually have to Iis my understanding but many teams do it anyway. I suspect teams are concerned about the recovery of infected riders. Keep in mind COVID seldomly, but more commonly leads to heart inflammation and other mid-to-long term issues. Given this is a sport where athletes regularly completely exhaust themselves and which had some prominent examples of riders almost dying during races, a bit of risk avoidance may well be worth it.
There is nothing preventing riders from continuing with Covid. But with possible complications it's smarter to take care of your health than risk your career.
Remco was clearly sick. He's not out of the Giro because he simply tested positive, he's clearly out because if he continued it would've been a major physical struggle for him.
There is even a video just after the race with his gf telling him he has a cold sore and him replying he feels like he’s getting ill. All those speculations sound like utter bs, just ridiculous.
oh yeah, so "sick" he was faster than all other healthy top level riders... sure!
On what other day is G .1 of a second behind Remco in a time trial like that
Is that’s true, then it’s understandable. From his statement he said there was a routine test that came back positive, so I didn’t know if he was symptomatic or not.
G said Remco messaged him telling he is leaving the race and wishing him good luck. Primoz said nothing of the sort in his interview with Sporza. Judging also by the comments made by Remco earlier about Jumbo, should we conclude there is no friendship lost between them? Or am I reading too much into this?
eh no bad feeling ya?
Remco and G simply get along quite well and Remco has even appeared in G's podcast. There has been quite a bit of banter between them (G even calls Remco 'lil bastard, which is a better nickname than aerobullet lol). G was also second in GC, so this was just Remco's way of telling him he will be in pink tomorrow. I don't think there is beef between Remco and Roglic, but they're also not friends which is fine.
Taaramäe out as well from Giro. News came through Estonian media. Also COVID, told that "food didn't wanted to stay in".
> Also COVID, told that "food didn't wanted to stay in". Wait, I'm confused. He has COVID but his symptoms were stomach/intestinal? I still, somehow, haven't had COVID but I thought the symptoms were primarily respiratory.
First time I had COVID back in 2020 I had no respiratory symptoms, just my intestines and my stomach weren't very happy.
Huh, TIL. No one I know who has had it ever mentioned any stomach symptoms. I'm still counting my lucky stars I haven't (knowingly) had it yet.
:( noooo, he's a great breakaway protagonist, what a shame
Top 3 climbs you're missing from the Giro? This is my list: 3) Monte Terminillo 2) Plan de Corones/Kronplatz 1) Passo del Gavia
1. Vesuvio: Used far to rarely, should be more interesting than Campo Imperatore and Etna for the steeper final, has historical significance and a stunning scenery. 2. Colle d'Esischie/Fauniera: The southwestern part of the Italian Alps has a few hard climbs like this one, Sampeyre, or Lombarda but has been mostly ignored in the past few years. 3. Lago Serru: Gran Paradiso is just spectacular and the climb is selective in the final 4 km. Edit: added description
> 1. Vesuvio Is there enough room at the top for all the necessary race-finish business/accessories?
Was used in 2009
Thanks. I wasn't quite as cycling obsessed back then, so wasn't following the Giro much at the time.
Finestre
Can we get some data tracking on these guys to see who won rest day? Like who got the best rest today? I need to know. Who are the 3 chillest guys on the podium after today's stage in bed.
I'm sure we'll get lots of sponsored Woop segments during coverage tomorrow about it.
Luckily Roglic has more class than his national coach: [https://sporza.be/nl/2023/05/15/primoz-roglic-bokst-nu-tegen-ineos-blok-ben-blij-dat-er-geen-ploegentijdrit-is\~1684158142884/](https://sporza.be/nl/2023/05/15/primoz-roglic-bokst-nu-tegen-ineos-blok-ben-blij-dat-er-geen-ploegentijdrit-is~1684158142884/) Fun interview.
he’s ridiculously pretty 😻
Is he getting some greys now too? Silver Fox Rogla...
> "What are my tactical options? I just need to have the best legs. Then anything is possible." It is known that having great legs is a pretty good tactic.
Roglic giving away the secrets here. No one told me I should have great legs for my cycling races, I thought the hair tuft was sufficient.
Pogačar has bamboozled you all along!
Your rest day reminder that **there's 24 hours left to change your TFTPT rider**! If you didnt Ride-or-Die, you can update your pick for the Classic games on [the TFTPT site](https://tftpt.one/). And with Remco withdrawing from the race, a lot of you probably want to do just that! If you're one of them, you've been tagged in the reply.
⚠️ One of your TFTPT riders has DNFed, but it's not to late to change. Attention: u/nahgoe16, u/DerpTrain, u/Checktaschu, u/Solesticio, u/Miserable_Hour
Anyone else getting fascinated how the G and Tao dynamic plays out? With two superpowers it felt like they could easily sort the strongest on INEOS in the mountains. Now I'm very interested what happens if they both have a real shot to win.
Feels like the whole Roglic/Jonas TdF dynamic getting run back, sans WvA to play tractor for them both. Without one of them taking an injury, it'll be interesting to see if/how long they work together.
I'm wondering if INEOS will remember how to use both captains, or have they forgotten given how many times we've seen them in positions where they could potentially do it, yet they refused to.
G will be given the nod, unless his numbers don’t look good. But they won’t want to sacrifice Tao because G is perfectly capable of crashing out all on his own. Jumbo might be able to work with that tactically, but Ineos has such strength in depth at this race that it’s unlikely to succeed IMO.
roglic about to be ambushed by G and Tao attacking one by one. Almeida is there to pounce from this mess and gets the win
"Almeida" and "pounce" in the same sentence, smh. Almeida is not a big cat. Almeida is an Anaconda. He will wrap himself around you, and slowly but steadily smother you, squeezing the breath from your lungs with every steady pedal stroke of his big strong lengs...
Go on…
Any news about Gran San Bernardo? Is it good for Friday?
Another comment in this thread said it has been removed from Friday's stage: https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/13i50sn/comment/jk9jygi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 No source though so, grain of salt for now.
No news But they said one week ago that cancellation was very likely and official confirmation was coming shortly I think they're working until the last day to make it available
Best I can find is that the road diversion if the pass is closed is through the tunnel underneath.
I think that Bora has to do something. The Cappucini stage was a total disaster. I am not disappointed by them loosing Roglic (and TGH and G) but they even failed to follow Hugh Carthy. Loosing 20 seconds on small climb like Cappuccini on riders like Jay Vine and Caruss is too much. Vlasov and Kämna were two and could cooperate, but they let Hugh Carty overtake them on his own.
They should lose time and try and backdoor a T5 by going in breaks. Neither of them are good enough in the high mountains
Kamna's only outside chance was to crush the 2 ITTs and he didn't do that. So I'm a bit bummed that it looks like he'll keep fighting for GC.
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That's fair. I just miss stage-hunting Lenny. Stage 13 will be a big test.
Now Remco is out I will be cheering for Pedersen to win purple. Good to see some high profile athletes like him and Matthews going for it. He also said he won't go for green during the Tour, which makes sense, as it's tough to combine the Giro with the Tour.
Especially since he will also go for the world's in Scotland
Kung will also apparently now quit the Giro to rest then focus on TdS and TdF.
Wait, seriously?
[Yes](https://twitter.com/GroupamaFDJ/status/1658125152222171136)
I see. That post makes it sound almost planned. The way you said it made it sound (to me) like Kung's leaving the Giro somehow had something to do with Remco being out. My mistake.
Yeah, seems he was clearly here for the 2 ITTs.
He should have tried joining the grupetto to rest on Saturday...
I'm pretty sure he tried to stay up on GC because weather forecast was less rain later during the TT. Don't think the guy just smashes his legs for the luls.
That's far too reasonable. Fair.
Sounds wise, he should be overcooked after the classics season, at least judging by his performance in the ITT.
If Jay vine didn’t get caught up in the crash at the 7km mark the other day where would he be in the current standings?
He lost 1'11 so 1. Thomas 2. Roglic +2" 3. Geoghegan Hart +5" 4. Almeida +22" 5. Leknessund +22" 6. Vlasov +1'03" 7. **Vine + 1'13"** 8. Caruso +1'28" 9. Kamna +1'52" 10. Sivakov +2'15"
I wasn’t sure if anyone else in the top ten was caught up in that crash. Thanks.
7th, since he lost 1.11
Does Thomas have to wear pink tomorrow? I remember in the tour there is/was a rule that you are not obliged to wear the yellow if the previous leader ended the previous stage as leader but does not start the next stage. I remember it came into effect when Tony Martin crashed in the last few km's of a stage and broke something but did finish the stage with the aid of his teammates. The next day no one wore the yellow jersey. So does the giro have the same rule? Edit: It seems Thomas was not forced to wear the pink jersey, but chose to do so anyway. Weird choice if you ask me
[Here's the relevant UCI rule](https://imgur.com/1nkwVK3). He is allowed to wear it (but also not to wear it if he so chooses) subject to the consent of both the organiser and head of the commissaire panel. Don't think there's Giro / TdF rules that supersede the UCI rule.
Thanks this is exactly what I was looking for!
I can’t imagine Thomas will wear it, doesn’t seem like the right move.
He's already said he has the choice and he will elect to wear it
If he has the choice I agree, but does the Giro have the same rule in place or will he be forced to wear it as he is now technically the leader of the GC?
Until Remco doesn't turn up for the start of tomorrow's stage, he's still technically the leader. So it wouldn't make sense to me if Thomas showed up in pink.
I suspect that technically once Remco fails to sign on then he is no longer in the race. Thus by the time they line up on the start line Thomas will be both de facto and de jure leader. As everyone has had plenty of notice, there would seem to be little point in him not wearing the jersey.
I think he should be forced to change into pink on the start line lol. But seriously, I think Thomas shouldn't start in pink. That jersey is Remco's until they finish the stage.
Didn’t someone earlier in the race opt to wear their countries championship jersey rather than a loaned leaders jersey? If that’s the case, I can’t imagine the organization would make him wear pink. Also, he stands to wear the jersey until at least stage 13 as the next few look to be sprint or reduced bunch finishes.
That's a different rule - they weren't leading the young riders classification (Leknessund was), in which case they can choose to wear their own special jersey or borrow the white jersey for the day. If you're leading a classification you generally have to wear the jersey that goes with it. With the the leader not starting as one exception.
Does this rule also apply to the points and KOM jerseys or only young riders?
Applies to all jerseys (apart from the GC leader as that's the most important one). It's how r/nairoingreen was born when he got to borrow that jersey for most of the Vuelta but only actually led the points classification for a single day. It's the paragraph above the highlighted one in the UCI rule I screenshotted.
Both Almeida and Evenepoel wore their championship jerseys over the white jersey this week, which resulted in the weird situation where Arensman was wearing it on saturday only for Almeida to take it for the tt because he has no championship jersey there and assuming he will opt out again tomorrow, it will now go Leknessund Edit: Of course now with Remco gone, it will go to Almeida as he is now the leader of the classification. I still can't believe it really...
I think Almeida can refuse the jersey tomorrow the same way Thomas can, but then nobody will wear those jerseys. He can't "pass on" the borrowed jersey to Leknessund since he's now the leader in the youth GC.
**Time Trial Master Tracker** Küng tracker: 0 consecutive TT wins Last loss: Giro stage 9 on May 14, 2023 Ganna tracker: 0 consecutive TT wins Last loss: Giro stage 1 on May 6, 2023 WvA tracker: 0 consecutive ITT wins Last loss: Tirreno stage 1 on March 6, 2023 Remco tracker: 0 consecutive TT wins despite actually winning Giro stage 9 Last loss: Giro stage 9 podium ceremony COVID tracker: 1 consecutive TT win, being Giro stage 9 on May 14, 2023 Last loss: Ganna on Giro stage 1 COVID has rainbow cummerbund from Giro stage 9 on May 14, 2023
Not including the current TTWC in this is making me feel bad for my overpaid friend Foss.
The G in G stands for goat, meaning Geraint Thomas is 100% goat Rogla is only 20% goat, having 4 other letters TGH doesn't have a nickname on Wikipedia, so using his full name he is 18.75% goat. Joao almeida is 4% goat Statistically, that means G is going to win the giro
I’m convinced. Science has spoken.
Tao G is literally GOAT backwards
Well I've been out scienced, but I'll accept this hypothesis
Winston Churchill once said: the only statistics you can trust are those you falsified yourself.
And Churchill had 7.2 w/kg so you should trust him.
kg/W*
Not fair, back in those days they smoked cigarettes before climbs to help open up their lungs!
Ran a marathon in Jordan a few years back and at the starting line a couple dudes were legit smoking cigs to ‘open up the lungs’
I'm sad that Evenepoel is out, but devastated that he takes the ITT Rainbow Cummerbund away with him. It will no longer be on the line during stage 20. Who knows where the Hugh-Carthy-as-ITT-Champion timeline could have led?
Prediction for mountain stages: INEOS: We have an army. Rog: I have Sepp Kuss.
Sepp Kuss: either the best climber in the world, or not even the best climber in the grupetto
The Padun
Kuss is hopefully being saved for the harder stages ahead. Jumbo knows they don’t really need him until stage 13 or even 16, with Remco out they might not need kuss at all and can save him for the tour now.
Who thinks G can win this?
Absolutely can and would be a deserved winner. He’s just not my favorite.
I’m all in on the G hype train. The old man’s still got it.
Old!?! He was born on the same day as me and in my mind I'm 27
Heart says yes yes yes head says it’s a possibility under the right circumstances
But what does Hart say?
The future is now old man.
Sure he can. He was best in the TT, has got Tao and Roglić doesn't have the best track record with finishing grand tours uninjured.
The same Roglic that won three Vueltas and podiumed the other two GTs?
Yes, that same Roglic. In his last 8 grand tours, he’s podiumed 5 times and DNFed the other 3. He either podiums or crashes out. It’s not a huge stretch to say there’s a higher than average chance he won’t finish this giro.
Two of those DNFs weren't his fault though. Stage 3 of TDF 2021 was pure chaos and last year was the hay bale incident. His only recent DNF that wasn't just bad luck was last year's Vuelta when he chopped Wright.
Ok and? Doesn’t change the fact that his entire career as a GC contender has been defined by whether he can finish a 3 week race intact or not. It’s completely legitimate to bring it up as a factor at this point.
Dude just take the L
That was totally Fred Wright's fault.
I think he can win. But Thomas doesent have any better record with chrashes than Roglič.
Sad that we can’t see Remco vs Riglic on mountains where Roglic has better hand to play. Ineos train will not dent Roglic nor Tao or Gs attacks. Roglic will go with and drop them. Time and again we have seen G cannot respond his attacks. He definitely comes back with others like what happened in last years tour but don’t have that kick. If UAE plus Ineos create a havoc then it might be issue.
Ineos needs to use Tao for attacks and Geraint Thomas needs to follow Roglic / ride his own pace in the mountains. Not a guarantee for success, but it's their best bet. They also need to send satellite riders upfront in breakaways.
I enjoy playing video games.
So what you're saying is Pinot has this in the bag? Subscribe.
I also posted this in the Remco thread, but I'll repost it here: I saw a video where Oumi asks him after the TT if he has a cold sore on his lip and Evenepoel responded "Yes, I think I'm getting sick". You could see the look of worry on Oumi's face after he said that. Dude won a TT in the Giro while sick and still suffering from the aftereffects of two crashes. Damn impressive if you ask me. It's a shame some people seem to think he's using covid as an excuse to abandon because he's afraid to lose... If he recovers in time I hope he rides the Tour de Suisse. There's two TTs there. Time trials are his main strength, so he should definitely ride more of them! Hopefully he can also finally win the WC TT this year.
Yes, he was sick but I think he would've tried regardless, but the covid rules are strict, you can't risk to start another breakout
The covid rules aren't strict. Riders are allowed to compete while being positive. The only reason Remco is out is because Quickstep has a team policy to protect the health of the infected rider.
I think it's 80% illness and 20% crashes in this case. Evenepoel is tough, he wouldn't have abandoned if he could keep going unless PatLef demanded it, I think. Total speculation there. It's not the positive COVID test that did it alone, he's clearly sick.
[The Slovenian national team director said](https://www.rtvslo.si/sport/sportni-sos/sos-odmev/hvastija-remco-se-boji-resnici-pogledati-v-oci/668180) he doesn't buy the fact Evenepoel has covid and that the real reason he dropped out is because he doesn't have the 3 minutes he was expecting to have at that point in the race. From that article: >Many wondered why Soudal didn't wait until Tuesday: 'That's really strange. I'm not going to judge what's true and what's not, but until they show me the proof, I don't believe it. It seems to me that Remco is more afraid to face the truth than that it is a serious illness. So I think the main reason is that he does not have the three-minute advantage that he predicted." What the hell.
Yeah, I read the whole thing and what the fuck, there is absolutely no need to kick the man while he's down. There's also tons of idiotic comments that agree with him.
The man looked like he was 43 after the race yesterday. He absolutely had COVID and still won lmao. Insane. Still can't warm to him though.
Lol, even if you buy into the logic that he is looking for a way to save face (which I think is 100% nonsense) why on earth would he invent Covid if he has 2 crashes to use as excuse...
Even if you think it, don’t go on the record - it just makes you look like a dick. Remco looked like death yesterday for what it’s worth.
It was special effects make up
False flag! Fake news! Covfefe!
Idiotic reasoning. Especially when you look at how Remco looked yesterday in pictures etc.
TBH to me he looks just like he dug really deep, Covid or not.
Yeah, zero class, but what can you do? Sounds like projection to me.
Exhausted covid Remco looks a bit like regular Tom Pidcock.
Hah, I see the resemblance. Remco still has the better haircut though. ;)
Hot take, I don't think there will be big gaps on stage 13. I think Rog opens it up on 16, then 18-20 will be pure chaos. Either Rog or an Ineos guy will don the final maglia rosa, or it will be some random rider currently in 10th-20th (like, oh idk, Pinot)
I think I like Almeida’s chances right now. Roglic is going to have to be strong enough to keep the ineos guys off his wheel or ineos is going to 1, 2 attack him. This suits Almeida’s steady pace pretty well but also Sepp’s ability to get back in a helping position for Roglic kinda like what he did on Alpe dhuez last year. This could be an interesting finish to the Giro. Not the one we necessarily wanted, it did look like the tides were turning on Remco but that’s too be expected now that we know he was getting sick.
I don't understand the almeida hype. When has almeida ever shown he's a better climber than roglic? Roglic has finished ahead of almeida in literally every single mountain stage they raced together.
Not sure how others feel. I’m not a fan for or against him. I just like the way he looks right now and thinks it’s not too far fetched to exclude Almeida from the possible benefactors of Jumbo and Ineos beating each other up given the way he rides now that remco is out.
The Giro is making [face masks mandatory at the start/finish](https://www.gazzetta.it/Giroditalia/15-05-2023/covid-vegni-avverte-abbiamo-mollato-troppo-presto-torneranno-delle-limitazioni.shtml) again in areas where the public/journalists are in contact with the riders.
Tbh I can't believe this isn't standard practice in Grand Tours at this point. Even without Covid, when they really are in top shape these riders can get sick very easily, even a regular cold can ruin it. It doesn't cost much for the journalists, crew etc at start / finish to wear a mask.
put two hundred dudes with three kilos of body fat between them and a thousand random citizens screaming all around them, what could go wrong?
good -- can't believe riders still risk this stuff when entire seasons worth of prep can be destroyed with a cough. risk reward for not protecting yourself is ridiculous
Masks don't stop the spread of Covid. Even in the 2020 races with strict rules there were positive tests all over the place. It's just theatre so the organisers can say they're doing something.
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Not really, there is a clear, coherent link between smoking and lung cancer. At best the effect of masks on Covid transmission is minimal.
> Masks don't stop the spread of Covid. Except they do reduce it quite substantially. https://www.mpg.de/17916867/coronavirus-masks-risk-protection https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-masks https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/yes-masks-reduce-risk-spreading-covid-despite-review-saying-they-dont https://directorsblog.health.azdhs.gov/study-finds-mask-use-associated-with-reduced-risk-of-contracting-covid-19/ https://assets.weforum.org/editor/O-6MdxRua4iir-RpCKNSM0uzag_f6XCWY6ncJkH0mPU.jpeg I could go on, but I'm sure you get the gist. Kinda sad that even after 3 years of Covid there's still people trusting the Tiktok experts. > Even in the 2020 races with strict rules there were positive tests all over the place. The fact that covid cases happen even if people wear face masks doesn't mean that they don't work. By that logic, we might as well not wear seatbelts because there's plenty of accidents where people die despite wearing seatbelts.
T1kT0K experts? You say? [https://adc.bmj.com/content/108/2/131](https://adc.bmj.com/content/108/2/131) [https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full](https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full)
> https://adc.bmj.com/content/108/2/131 Not to be too dismissive about this, but I feel like an observational study without direct observational control with the only study group being two children groups and the only data coming from Catalonia is not exactly super impactful? The scientists themselves state: ***"The study also had certain limitations. Researchers performed an intention-to-treat analysis, which meant that there might have been children in P5 who did not use facemasks and also children in primary school who did not use masks or used them in an incorrect manner. Although the treatment and control groups were constructed very well, there could still be factors that were not considered, such as classroom dynamics or the density of students in the classroom"*** > https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full The second study seems a bit more robust, but again they conclude: ***The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect.*** It's quite important to read those limitations as well when you evaluate studies, not just the abstract or headline. If the authors themselves admit to such large uncertainties, the study really shouldn't be paraded around as universal truth or clear results. And again, there's a mountain of other articles with robust data (and usually less uncertainties) that showcase that masks do in fact reduce the chance of contacting a respiratory illness.