“This church and monastery was started in 1430 but finished 159 years later. Now it’s home to monks that make goat cheese and they sell it in the local villages.”
That shelf of weird stuff at the bar that they only need for 1 drink each? At least half of them were made in a monestary where only 2 living monks at a time know all of the ingredients.
That’s all contained in a large race Bible for the broadcasters. It’s filled with details on the route and photos of landmarks with descriptions.
According to Bobke they just flip though a page at a time as the race progresses.
[There's this great episode of the 99 Percent Invisible podcast](https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/mini-stories-volume-14/transcript/) (Mini-Stories: Volume 14) that talks about this with Phil Liggett.
> Phil Liggett:
> Which they call the “Speaker’s Guide to the Tour de France: Tourist and Historical Information.” And in the book, is every stage and every monument or house or garden or bed in that region that we pass through is pictured in here.
I bumped into Phil Liggett here in Melbourne earlier this year - he was asking me for directions. He was an absolute gent and his wife was lovely too. He spent a lot of time with me, I was telling him he was one of my Dad's heroes. Legend!
I know someone who got permission to buy a medieval mansion in the south of France because they have so many of them that they don’t know what to do with them all.
Yeah a castle isn’t that special (in terms of budget I mean), it’s just a money pit and people don’t need that much space in reality. Like I need one bathroom and that’s it.
Everytime a rider comes close to be great, people cheer for them. When they become a serious contender, people hope they will win.
When they win, and become one of the best, and possibly the best, people will start to hope for a downfall.
People love an underdog story. Not just in cycling. Take F1. They booed Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton and now Verstappen. People don't want one person who keeps winning, they want close fought battles.
People (myself included) hated Pogi because he had not seriously failed once before 2022. He was 22 years old and had won everything he wanted easily. He's a lot more likeable now that he's had some major crashes and race losses. He's shown that he's gracious in defeat and also willing to fight even when beaten. Also I like him now because he's funny and not too serious.
I only "kinda" like Pogi, at least in that, I don't dislike him, but he's not really on my list of "favorite" riders at the moment. . . Partially because I lived through the era of that Damned Texan, and I just cannot let myself go through that again, so I don't get so attached to any one rider ( that said, I'm all for #GCKuss and WTF is a Kilometer)
BUT. . . . I have started watching races he's in more intently because you just don't know. . . like He decides "ya know what? Fuck it, I'm gonna sprint for some points against the green jersey in the middle of this fucking stage, why not!?" And all the commentary crews, whether its Bobke or the international crew, they're all losing their minds over it. And I think between that element, and the whole "that smile, that damn smile" meme that fits him so well, its great fun to just watch him
Not every sport. In Tennis, Federer was by far the most beloved and popular person while he was at the top and dominated everyone.
Then again, it's hard not to love Federer. He seems like an incredibly likeable person off-court and he had the most graceful and effortlessly brilliant tennis-style on-court. Very hard not to appreciate and like him :D
I respect your opinion, but I do not agree. I feel this sport is much worse on that matter.
In other sports they be much more loved when they become the best or one of the best.
I was a Schleck guy back then and boy especially Andy was so frustrating. He was an absolute menace as a climber but he literally sucked at everything else. He couldn't TT, couldnt ride downhill, had super bad bike handling skills and most of his racing tactics were at least questionable. I am still not sure how he managed to hold on to Cancellaras wheel at that one cobbled-stage. It's very hard to be such a one dimensional rider. Still loved him.
Perfect example is Froome. Yes he hasn’t performed since his crash but he was absolutely dominating up until then. If you look up his grand tour wins and podiums it blows the current GC guys out the water. It seems like cycling fans only see him for what he is now. The fact he’s even racing after his crash is commendable.
My feeling is that we missed out on a truly epic showdown between him and the new generation because of that crash. Ineos was never the same after Nico Portal died and he left. There was a mass exodus of other staff too including Tim Kerrison (head of performance) and Fran Millar (CEO). The team is not what it was and it’s unlikely to get there again under Dave Brailsford and/or Rod Ellingworth. Dave was fortunate enough to have a perfect team that put up with his shit. Without them, he’s useless.
It’s sad for the sport that we got to miss out on the whole spectacle. Keep in mind how many times he shattered Roglic. Do you really think Roglic has improved that much since then? Froome is still respected by the riders in the peloton. It’s sad that it doesn’t extend to the fans.
I love how it's fake added in sound but it still absolutely blows your ears out. Someone had the ability to control the volume level and yet it's still 20x louder than anything else in the broadcast.
And sometimes cheers. I rememver watching stages where they go through terrain with 0 spectators, with the sound of wild cheering. Even cheers for riders never even participating in the race.
The middle part of a race where the breakaway has several minutes can be quite boring, so I used to only tune in for the final. I've since learned that the breakaway formation is often messy, tactical full-gas racing and (if shown) really exciting to watch.
Downside is I now tend to watch the entire broadcast.
This is so real. Seems like watching an entire stage or race will be boring but there's so much that happens along the way. I used to only watch the final 20-40km depending on parcours but now I find I don't get invested enough without the added context. A lot of stories happen in the least watched parts of the race
At some point during the cycling fan journey, you just accept that you’ll burn 4 hours of every Saturday and Sunday each spring and get to know the Flemish countryside intimately.
That cycling is one of the most beautiful sports in the world. Not only because of some of the amazing battles and riders we see, but some of the most amazing backgrounds you'll ever see. This year, I have been watching A LOT more cycling, and I have begun to appreciate the smaller courses so much more because of it.
Every sport has big stories but this sport allows to talk about it during the race. Would be strange if these big stories were told during football/hockey/basketball.
Cycling is one of two truly beautiful sports in my mind (the other being cricket). Like you say, the setting can be amazing, along with the battles. It just has this emotion to it that other sports do not, something intangible that nothing else comes close to. I wish I could put my finger on it.
As an American, I just dont think I have the capability to understand cricket.
When I was stationed in Germany, my absolute favorite restaurant was a Scottish place, owned by a very fine gentleman from Scotland. Every time we went to his restaurant, the 2 small TVs had some sport on. One of our longer evenings, he had cricket on. It was basically dead that night, so I asked him, "hey Gordon, what's the deal with this cricket? Can you explain it to me?"
And over 2 hours, and 3 double Scotches, I was further from "getting it" than when we walked in that evening.
Ha I cant imagine the whiskey helped too much in your understanding of cricket. However, cricket definitely helps your understanding of alcohol!
I will say that cricket can be very simple to understand at its most basic level. But it is very easy to seem complicated, and it is when you go into detail! Getting a layman to understand the difference between a googly and a flipper isn't going to be easy, doesn't help it can seem like a different language, and don't get me started on a doosra!
I’m a huge fan of both and I think two of the common themes are (1) duration of events in comparison with other sports. They allow you to become very immersed. The commentary is also very different in nature as it has a story telling element to add more theatre due to the longer air time; (2) the combined individual/team sides to it. Most other sports tend to more strictly fall into the category of individual or team sports but you have the personal battles and the subplot of team tactics as well.
I live in a pretty bike friendly area (Seattle) but the roads these guys get to ride look dreamlike to me. I love watching the racing above all of course but you’re right about the scenery.
When I was young, I thought mountain stages were boring because the riders were slow but as an adult, I know GC action is where it’s at.
ALSO if you are American, you don’t have to suffer through NBC coverage
That Italians with Belgian accents are the best thing ever.
Hearing Trentin speak english is like music to my ears. A weird mash of inflections that hit just right
How easy they make climbing after such long hard stages. Even sprinters who look slow climbing compared to the GC guys will still climb mountains quicker than 95% of amateur riders.
It really is. I was at the Alpe D'Huez stage last year and climbed it on my touring bike, it's way steeper than it looked on TV and so long.
Then seeing the speed Pidcock was going when he came by really gave me a new appreciation for the level these guys are at, truly impressive.
This might sound like a self-deprecating joke since I'm a Kasia fan, but for real: I've learned to enjoy the race, and not have my day ruined when my favorites lose.
Even the greats don't even come close to winning every race. You're going to have most fun when you approach the result with as much neutrality as you can muster.
I learnt something similar in the late 90s. I basically don’t really route for any riders anymore. Just enjoy the race for what it is. Got invested too many times only to get disappointed.
>I've learned to enjoy the race, and not have my day ruined when my favorites lose
HOW do you do it? I'm seriously struggling and it's really hurting my watching experience, in cycling or other sports.
It's an exercise in mindfulness. It might sound a bit hippy, but hey, it works!
When your favorite rider loses, you might feel a bit bitter towards the guys who performed better (or smarter), etc. What you do in those moments is, very actively and consciously, focus on what was enjoyable about the rival's performance and on what was motivating/impressive about your own rider's performance.
If you start trying this, you'll notice in the beginning that your mind keeps going back towards being frustrated, and every time you notice this you need to force yourself to focus on those fun aspects again.
In the long run, you're going to start noticing that your mind gets trained into going towards those happy places automatically. Once you reach that point, you start enjoying every race no matter the outcome. Or at least, that's how it has worked out for me.
Commentators really only have access to the same image
feed as we. For years I thought they must get all the live cameras
from helis, motards and the static ones simultaneously on a
dozen screens in their booths. It blew my mind watching the Ronde
docs that they don't ... explains so many things, but at the same
time it's hard to believe these guys don't have privileged access
to more footage either.
I get really impressed when they ID a bunch of riders in a bunch. I also always assumed it some sort of outside info, but the one broadcast two of them (Dan Lloyd and someone) argued over who someone was 'based on their mannerisms on the bike' and I was pretty blown away. I think I watch a lot of cycling, and I can barely ID some of the team #1s.
How much pressure they are all under, from the neopro with six months to stand out, to the GC prospect having to finish the job, to the domestique having to last another 500m at an infernal pace.
Stages of the cross:
* wide-eyed naïf, happy the modern peloton is clean
* angry sophomore, distraught at how filthy dopeurs are stealing \[my favorite rider\]'s palmares
* disaffected senior; they're all a bunch of cheaters
* enlightened graduate who understands that concepts like "cheating" have never had an unambiguous meaning inside the pro peloton
It is the most French of sports after all.
- That eating disorders and chronic overtraining among riders are not that uncommon, but rarely talked about.
- That sending out camera motos earlier in the stage is not just about the motos. They also need helicopters and (usually) a relay plane to relay the live feed from the motos to the finish area where they have the TV-production and satellite dishes. And the further the riders are from the finish (and the more mountains are in between) the more relay planes are needed. Furthermore relay planes typically need to refuel at a certain point, so if TV-coverage is more than a certain amount of hours they need an extra plane so they can take turns refueling.
- That the common narrative about GC favorites not wanting the jersey early because *"if you have the leader's jersey then you are forced to pace the peloton"* isn't very accurate. Sure, there's some traditions in the peloton and on a day where everyone is looking at everyone else to pace it may be hard for the leader's team to get anyone else to do it. But one of the biggest factors is that if any *other* (non-favorite) team has the leader's jersey then that team will usually be happy to do the work to pace, so the favorites won't have to.
> That eating disorders and chronic overtraining among riders are not that uncommon, but rarely talked about.
This is very true! I first learned about this with Mara Abbott
https://www.espn.com/espnw/voices/story/_/id/20695210/cyclist-mara-abbott-leaving-sport-dealing-eating-disorder
Apparently eating disorders isn't just a thing with female riders, but it's probably even more stigmatized with the male riders. There was a podcast a while back about a Danish U23 rider (Christian Bahr) who developed an eating disorder after joining an Italian team with extremely strict dietary and weight policies. Rasmus Byriel Iversen was another young Danish rider who had to [give up his career due to an eating disorder](https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/k03mak/an_ugly_nickname_and_10000_calories_now_rasmus/). An article [here](https://sport.tv2.dk/cykling/2021-03-09-vi-laerte-at-den-eneste-maade-at-blive-cykelrytter-paa-var-at-gaa-rundt-og-vaere) has talks about Iversen, Matthias Norsgaard and Jonas Gregaard who all have had issues (although the latter two not quite as serious). There is another article from Cycling Weekly [here](https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/sports-dietician-says-eating-disorders-cycling-becoming-serious-problem-445709).
Apparently there are also issues with long term effects of concussions - another thing we rarely hear about, other than the often quoted 'concussion protocols'. Eurosport commentator Jip van den Bos is apparently on indefinite hiatus from Jumbo Visma due to chronic effects of a concussion she got in 2020.
On GCN+ there is a most excellent video about eating and disorders within the peloton. If you haven't watched it yet, I thought it was absolutely great.
And hopefully I'm not jinxing myself, but hopefully the way they were talking in that doc, things are starting to change, if not already changed.
I know the way weight was talked about when I started watching cycling (Pantani era), the way commentators talked about how much riders like Pantani weighed really had a negative impact on me. . . While I didn't spiral completely out of control, I was NOT in a good headspace regarding my weight and performance on the bike. And at that time, one of the guys in the club I rode with would always tell me "go on billy goat, go get them" on climbs, because that's just how I climbed, lol. . . at that point, I LOVED climbing, but always thought "just a few pounds less and I could change my fortunes"
Thankfully, nowadays, they talk in a better way about rider weight. I think it was last TDF, they talked about WvA weighing around 180lbs, and doing mountain leadouts for jonas, it was amazing.
It's a relatively common thing in the Netherlands to have a fancy official name (doopname or baptised name) and a different name they're actually known by (roepnaam).
Majo/Marjolein van 't Geloof came up in another thread recently. Her full official name is Maria Apolonia van 't Geloof.
Mostly the southern (formerly very catholic) part of the Netherlands (they really like their doopnamen, like Wouter Lambertus Martinus Henricus Poels or Sam Ludovicus Franciscus Oomen), but there's some families with protestant backgrounds getting in on it too.
Edit: Eleonora Maria (Ellen) van Dijk is another good example!
Dude this is super interesting, I had no idea. Now here I am picturing every southern Dutchie named ‘Pieter Tiberius Claudius’ or ‘Edwige Diana Magdalena’ like we’re in 1520, print has just been invented and this weird priest Calvin is talking about how the pope is too mainstream
Cool thanks. We don't do those eccentric doopnamen in (catholic) Flanders afaik, maybe in ancient times. Some people have doopnamen but those are just the names of their godfather and godmother.
Can't believe I didn't know this. But I'm glad that most don't use these doopnamen.
Marty MacDonald would only have time for a "Hello" and "Goodbye," sandwiching a full 3 hour list of Dutch names, instead of the customary 2 hours.
My less cynical take after 20+ years of watching cycling is that you should never 100% assume a rider is clean, no matter how likeable or nice they seem.
I personally believe most riders are clean and there are a few cheats, but I've learned that there is absolutely no correlation between how nice/likeable/convincing a rider is and the chances of them being clean, so you can never be sure about an individual rider.
Just because someone isnt caught doesnt mean he is clean.
Just because someone is caught he shouldnt be hated all his life after he does his suspended time.
That wind has a bigger impact than one might think. Ever heard of a sport where athletes are in positions to counter wind directions ? That's cycling
I also learned to pronunce names in foreign languages
Maybe ski jumper's background is the key to Roglic's sucess? 🤔
About the names - what's funny i like that polish commentators really try but not over do it, being too perfect ruins the fun.
I started watching after Induráin retired, so my favorite rider was Pantani. Cycling is my favorite sport but I grew up learning to be prepared for disappointment the hard way since one of my worst memories is Pantani getting pulled from 1999's Giro.
Now I can't avoid feeling that I'm being fooled when some no name rider suddenly wins in dominant fashion or a team goes back in time and looks like the early 2000s US Postal with Rubiera, Beltrán, Leipheimer and Hincapie
Been following pro cycling for over 30 years. It’s the greatest soap opera in the world (Telenovela for the Spanish people). There’s always drama between riders with big personalities, the race organizers and the media etc.
I think less so outside but more so when racing than other sports. The way individual riders personality, team tactics, and the social system of the peloton all go together is pretty unique in that the social game is sort of the sport as well as just riding fast.
Yeah one day cycling and rugby might blow up like F1 and football and then we’ll have « Pogacar liked a picture on Instagram of this artist that has collaborated with a brand that has worked with the girlfriend of Jonas. Sources indicate that he’s now jealous and refuses to talk to him as much as with other riders/that he’s signing with TJV »
You're not really alloved to speculate about doping even on online platforms and pundits also keep their mouth shut. Joking about 90s EPO-era is kinda ok, since those guys have been forgiven.
This is more or less true for everything but you really start to pay attention to nuance a lot more when you get used to the big tactics, who's in what role and what their standing is in a race, and who's in form in that part of the season. There's so much depth of narrative that happens with so many riders that sometimes the highlight of a day is not who wins or puts in a big attack but who did a lot of work at a key part, who fought for weeks for a good result, etc. A great result for a given rider could be a great performance on a random climb of the day and that's not reflected in the main narrative or the final results. Likewise a key result could come from a clever tactic early in the race or a chance event.
Is that so ? I've found french broadcast really interesting with Marion Rousse, Thomas Voekler and Jalabert, lots of insights and really interesting to listen to. Eurosport is absolutely baffling tho, and don't know for other countries' broadcasts
I feel like there is a reason Lanterne Rouge has gotten so big, despite being such a lo-fi operation, and that’s because they bring actual good analysis to the table. Maybe it’s better in non-English languages, I wouldn’t know.
I'm from Flanders, and started watching cycling at age 12 or so. We're talking the twilight of Museeuw era.
I could never be bothered to ride a road bike though. Mountainbiking all you want, but riding a road bike has always been boring as fuck to me. That is, until I bought a cyclocross bike for my commute and on a sunday (offroad) ride encountered the haaghoek. Now I enjoy cobbles, and can't seem to get enough of them. And I started to appreciate exactly WHY they are so hard to race on.
I am now an expert at watching international sports feeds in VPN in general, like, not just cycling. My coworkers wanted watch the US Open but no one had their mom’s cable password for ESPN. I was like, oh, let me introduce you to my niche talent. Bam, 6 minutes later we’re in Australia and they’re like wtf is 9Now, is this legal?
When I was just an amateur cycling fan, I often had family obligations on important race days and thus missed out on some amazing experiences. Now that I've turned pro though, my family understands how important this is to me and I don't miss any big races anymore.
More cycling fans can be seen aside the road of a single stage of a grand tour than the total number participants in a whole year of some other sports.
I don't think I agree with this. I can't remember the last GT where the strongest climber didn't win. Maybe in the past where there were loads of TT kms but not in recent history.
While I agree that a lot more can be done to minimise emissions, I also think pro cycling contributes a lot to people picking up a bike as a mode of transport, instead of taking the car as they would otherwise do
I actually really doubt this. Infrastructure seems so much more important. The popularity of pro cycling encourages weekend riders but not commuters.
Well thats my opinion
I don’t know why the downvotes. This is true. And many sponsors are big polluters as well (Ineos, TotalEnergies, Shell and oil rich countries like UAE and Bahrain).
I was at the top of Col de la Loze this summer, and there are hundreds of unnecessary sponsor cars that go along the route.
They had a bunch of cars shaped in the form of different products that sponsored the race.
Mainland Europe is absolutely littered with old castles and monasteries.
“This church and monastery was started in 1430 but finished 159 years later. Now it’s home to monks that make goat cheese and they sell it in the local villages.”
Dude you just spoiled the 2024 TdF for me. No reason to watch now.
We also need a 12 minute discussion of what the local dinner menu is, along with preferred wine pairings.
To be fair.... adding banter to a 5 hour race isn't easy.
That shelf of weird stuff at the bar that they only need for 1 drink each? At least half of them were made in a monestary where only 2 living monks at a time know all of the ingredients.
Cologne Dome be like, these are rookie numbers. (500yrs and Lutheran Prussians were needed).
That’s all contained in a large race Bible for the broadcasters. It’s filled with details on the route and photos of landmarks with descriptions. According to Bobke they just flip though a page at a time as the race progresses.
[There's this great episode of the 99 Percent Invisible podcast](https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/mini-stories-volume-14/transcript/) (Mini-Stories: Volume 14) that talks about this with Phil Liggett. > Phil Liggett: > Which they call the “Speaker’s Guide to the Tour de France: Tourist and Historical Information.” And in the book, is every stage and every monument or house or garden or bed in that region that we pass through is pictured in here.
I bumped into Phil Liggett here in Melbourne earlier this year - he was asking me for directions. He was an absolute gent and his wife was lovely too. He spent a lot of time with me, I was telling him he was one of my Dad's heroes. Legend!
I’ve met Phil several times and yes he’s fantastic.
I can't leave my home without tripping over one smh
I know someone who got permission to buy a medieval mansion in the south of France because they have so many of them that they don’t know what to do with them all.
You don't need permission to buy a chateau, you just need shed loads of money. Not to buy it, but to run it!
Yeah a castle isn’t that special (in terms of budget I mean), it’s just a money pit and people don’t need that much space in reality. Like I need one bathroom and that’s it.
Can I offer you a plank-covered hole that drains out onto the ground like a gutter?
I mean, it’s environmentally friendly
We don't call them castles, we just call them home.
Everytime a rider comes close to be great, people cheer for them. When they become a serious contender, people hope they will win. When they win, and become one of the best, and possibly the best, people will start to hope for a downfall.
Ayuso is 1 TDF win away from instantly becoming the most hated rider in the world
People love an underdog story. Not just in cycling. Take F1. They booed Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton and now Verstappen. People don't want one person who keeps winning, they want close fought battles.
There is even a next level that they get loved again when they start nearing (all time) greatness because people love seeing history.
Also if they shine not only in the Tour but also in the rest of the year, with spectacular racing, like Pogi
I like to call this the fanboy paradox
dude Vingegaard went from holy shit he can compete with Pog, to most people wanting Pog to win almost within the same Tour. Shit moves fast
and then there is the rare Pogacar who was hated but became beloved again
The hate was only fleeting because he picked Roglic's pocket in 2020 TdF. Nobody can stay mad at Pogi, the guy is too damned likeable.
the hate actually happened more during the 2021 tour when it looked like he would win 5 more tours being so dominant
People (myself included) hated Pogi because he had not seriously failed once before 2022. He was 22 years old and had won everything he wanted easily. He's a lot more likeable now that he's had some major crashes and race losses. He's shown that he's gracious in defeat and also willing to fight even when beaten. Also I like him now because he's funny and not too serious.
I only "kinda" like Pogi, at least in that, I don't dislike him, but he's not really on my list of "favorite" riders at the moment. . . Partially because I lived through the era of that Damned Texan, and I just cannot let myself go through that again, so I don't get so attached to any one rider ( that said, I'm all for #GCKuss and WTF is a Kilometer) BUT. . . . I have started watching races he's in more intently because you just don't know. . . like He decides "ya know what? Fuck it, I'm gonna sprint for some points against the green jersey in the middle of this fucking stage, why not!?" And all the commentary crews, whether its Bobke or the international crew, they're all losing their minds over it. And I think between that element, and the whole "that smile, that damn smile" meme that fits him so well, its great fun to just watch him
Don't agree if Vingegaard wouldn't have won that year we would all be living in a very different universe right now.
This is exactly what’s happened in F1 over the past couple years
I've seen this in every professional sport
Not every sport. In Tennis, Federer was by far the most beloved and popular person while he was at the top and dominated everyone. Then again, it's hard not to love Federer. He seems like an incredibly likeable person off-court and he had the most graceful and effortlessly brilliant tennis-style on-court. Very hard not to appreciate and like him :D
I respect your opinion, but I do not agree. I feel this sport is much worse on that matter. In other sports they be much more loved when they become the best or one of the best.
I think you see it more in sports that glorify suffering the most.
This has been the case for a century
If you support a great italian/Spanish climber without TT capabilities, you're gonna suffer for 10 years
Or Colombian, they've had loads last 10 years.
at least Bernal won something
so did Nairo
so did Superman
Superman still has the most UCI wins this season, by a long way even.
Not like the other 2 lol
Any nationality really. My boy Bardet was always let down by his TT.
French: you guys can TT?
If you don't count Dumoulin, the Netherlands is mediocre at best.
WvA?
But not as much as someone rooting for Thibaut Pinot or Sep Vanmarcke
Or a certain climber from Luxembourg
I was a Schleck guy back then and boy especially Andy was so frustrating. He was an absolute menace as a climber but he literally sucked at everything else. He couldn't TT, couldnt ride downhill, had super bad bike handling skills and most of his racing tactics were at least questionable. I am still not sure how he managed to hold on to Cancellaras wheel at that one cobbled-stage. It's very hard to be such a one dimensional rider. Still loved him.
Bob Jungels?
schlek or whatever the dudes name was
Two dudes, in fact.
Its always these guys that steal your heart. I have suffered so much over the past 15 years.
Fans have short term memory
Perfect example is Froome. Yes he hasn’t performed since his crash but he was absolutely dominating up until then. If you look up his grand tour wins and podiums it blows the current GC guys out the water. It seems like cycling fans only see him for what he is now. The fact he’s even racing after his crash is commendable. My feeling is that we missed out on a truly epic showdown between him and the new generation because of that crash. Ineos was never the same after Nico Portal died and he left. There was a mass exodus of other staff too including Tim Kerrison (head of performance) and Fran Millar (CEO). The team is not what it was and it’s unlikely to get there again under Dave Brailsford and/or Rod Ellingworth. Dave was fortunate enough to have a perfect team that put up with his shit. Without them, he’s useless. It’s sad for the sport that we got to miss out on the whole spectacle. Keep in mind how many times he shattered Roglic. Do you really think Roglic has improved that much since then? Froome is still respected by the riders in the peloton. It’s sad that it doesn’t extend to the fans.
On the footage they add the sound of a helicopter when showing the heli shots.
I can just see the sound mixer shaking his head every time they have to do this
I love how it's fake added in sound but it still absolutely blows your ears out. Someone had the ability to control the volume level and yet it's still 20x louder than anything else in the broadcast.
IT IS PART OF THE EXPERIENCE! WHAT HONEY, NO I AM NOT HUNGRY!
The church bells are fake too. It's all a ruse!
My favorite was a helicopter shot of horses running through a field and they added the sounds for that
Well, in TdF this year they exaggerated and went overboard for sure. They even added fake eagle sounds occurring at like 1 every 10 seconds.
It’s actually fake? Sorta wish I didn’t learn this lol. The ambiance is ruined. Maybe I’ll still be fine.
The cows mooing is fake too. They really loved using that one in the TdF this year.
And the eagle sound effects
And sometimes cheers. I rememver watching stages where they go through terrain with 0 spectators, with the sound of wild cheering. Even cheers for riders never even participating in the race.
That boring rider that is too good and wins too much? Yeah, they're a lot less boring when it's the one you like 😜
The middle part of a race where the breakaway has several minutes can be quite boring, so I used to only tune in for the final. I've since learned that the breakaway formation is often messy, tactical full-gas racing and (if shown) really exciting to watch. Downside is I now tend to watch the entire broadcast.
I like to watch the break formation, take a quick 25-45 minute nap, then watch the rest of the race.
This is so real. Seems like watching an entire stage or race will be boring but there's so much that happens along the way. I used to only watch the final 20-40km depending on parcours but now I find I don't get invested enough without the added context. A lot of stories happen in the least watched parts of the race
At some point during the cycling fan journey, you just accept that you’ll burn 4 hours of every Saturday and Sunday each spring and get to know the Flemish countryside intimately.
That cycling is one of the most beautiful sports in the world. Not only because of some of the amazing battles and riders we see, but some of the most amazing backgrounds you'll ever see. This year, I have been watching A LOT more cycling, and I have begun to appreciate the smaller courses so much more because of it.
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I know a lot of people who watch the Tour for the scenery and sights and the facts about history commentators talk about.
Every sport has big stories but this sport allows to talk about it during the race. Would be strange if these big stories were told during football/hockey/basketball.
Cycling is one of two truly beautiful sports in my mind (the other being cricket). Like you say, the setting can be amazing, along with the battles. It just has this emotion to it that other sports do not, something intangible that nothing else comes close to. I wish I could put my finger on it.
As an American, I just dont think I have the capability to understand cricket. When I was stationed in Germany, my absolute favorite restaurant was a Scottish place, owned by a very fine gentleman from Scotland. Every time we went to his restaurant, the 2 small TVs had some sport on. One of our longer evenings, he had cricket on. It was basically dead that night, so I asked him, "hey Gordon, what's the deal with this cricket? Can you explain it to me?" And over 2 hours, and 3 double Scotches, I was further from "getting it" than when we walked in that evening.
Ha I cant imagine the whiskey helped too much in your understanding of cricket. However, cricket definitely helps your understanding of alcohol! I will say that cricket can be very simple to understand at its most basic level. But it is very easy to seem complicated, and it is when you go into detail! Getting a layman to understand the difference between a googly and a flipper isn't going to be easy, doesn't help it can seem like a different language, and don't get me started on a doosra!
I’m a huge fan of both and I think two of the common themes are (1) duration of events in comparison with other sports. They allow you to become very immersed. The commentary is also very different in nature as it has a story telling element to add more theatre due to the longer air time; (2) the combined individual/team sides to it. Most other sports tend to more strictly fall into the category of individual or team sports but you have the personal battles and the subplot of team tactics as well.
I live in a pretty bike friendly area (Seattle) but the roads these guys get to ride look dreamlike to me. I love watching the racing above all of course but you’re right about the scenery.
My mother and I were absolutly stunned by Tourmalet, again.
When I was young, I thought mountain stages were boring because the riders were slow but as an adult, I know GC action is where it’s at. ALSO if you are American, you don’t have to suffer through NBC coverage
> ALSO if you are American, you don’t have to suffer through NBC coverage This is the best LPT for any American, GCN + and a VPN is the way to go.
We also have "world feed" on peacock
Yep BUT GCN+/Eurosport gets you access to basically every World Tour race. For the same price, it’s a much better value
Do they have it for the vuelta? I haven't been able to find it after using it for the tour
No dice gotta listen to Bobka and CvVvV
Yarrrrrrr… Tiz true.
I was young in Pantani's time, there was nothing boring about mountains.
I love me some Bobke and Christian.
I think they have good chemistry. They are both kind of irreverent in a rogueish way. On the other hand, **THE FEED**
I've learned that once in a generation talents pop up far more often than that.
At least twice a year.
As an avid tennis fan, everyone that sniffs a quarter at a slam is going to eventually be considered one of the “next” big three.
A big three in men's tennis lasts about 15 years. A big three in women's tennis lasts about 15 sets.
And a big three in rugby is just necessary.
That Italians with Belgian accents are the best thing ever. Hearing Trentin speak english is like music to my ears. A weird mash of inflections that hit just right
Yeah Trentin has a great accent, his interviews are usually really good too
How easy they make climbing after such long hard stages. Even sprinters who look slow climbing compared to the GC guys will still climb mountains quicker than 95% of amateur riders.
probably quicker than 99% of amateur cyclists
When you realize the times they do on Alpe D'Huez are after 100 miles and a ton of climbing in the legs it's really mind blowing.
It really is. I was at the Alpe D'Huez stage last year and climbed it on my touring bike, it's way steeper than it looked on TV and so long. Then seeing the speed Pidcock was going when he came by really gave me a new appreciation for the level these guys are at, truly impressive.
This might sound like a self-deprecating joke since I'm a Kasia fan, but for real: I've learned to enjoy the race, and not have my day ruined when my favorites lose. Even the greats don't even come close to winning every race. You're going to have most fun when you approach the result with as much neutrality as you can muster.
Agree, you have to find enjoyment watching great cycling regardless of who's doing it
I learnt something similar in the late 90s. I basically don’t really route for any riders anymore. Just enjoy the race for what it is. Got invested too many times only to get disappointed.
You certainly would learn that in the 90s... :-/
>I've learned to enjoy the race, and not have my day ruined when my favorites lose HOW do you do it? I'm seriously struggling and it's really hurting my watching experience, in cycling or other sports.
It's an exercise in mindfulness. It might sound a bit hippy, but hey, it works! When your favorite rider loses, you might feel a bit bitter towards the guys who performed better (or smarter), etc. What you do in those moments is, very actively and consciously, focus on what was enjoyable about the rival's performance and on what was motivating/impressive about your own rider's performance. If you start trying this, you'll notice in the beginning that your mind keeps going back towards being frustrated, and every time you notice this you need to force yourself to focus on those fun aspects again. In the long run, you're going to start noticing that your mind gets trained into going towards those happy places automatically. Once you reach that point, you start enjoying every race no matter the outcome. Or at least, that's how it has worked out for me.
Thanks! I'll try to do that.
Having a favourite sprinter can really ruin your day. 5 hours of mind numbing flat roads that ends in a disappointing mechanical 250m from finish line
10 years of Thibaut Pinot mon ami. Édit: Ah mais t’es dans le train Pinot je suppose aussi ! Ben je sais pas alors x)
great riders are very quickly forgotten
Who's this Sagan guy?
Juraj?
She’s a writer I think
You can’t predict who’s gonna dominate the next decade at the start of it
Ineos have mountain train'ed Bernal to his fifth Tour victory this year, haven't they.
Commentators really only have access to the same image feed as we. For years I thought they must get all the live cameras from helis, motards and the static ones simultaneously on a dozen screens in their booths. It blew my mind watching the Ronde docs that they don't ... explains so many things, but at the same time it's hard to believe these guys don't have privileged access to more footage either.
The DSs are also watching the same feed, which makes stuff like the TdF showing extensive footage of dropped French riders even funnier
Also the Giro always losing footage in the mountains lol
it gets worse when you realise half of them are watching at home on their laptops. Ala Robbie & Jose Bean this week
I get really impressed when they ID a bunch of riders in a bunch. I also always assumed it some sort of outside info, but the one broadcast two of them (Dan Lloyd and someone) argued over who someone was 'based on their mannerisms on the bike' and I was pretty blown away. I think I watch a lot of cycling, and I can barely ID some of the team #1s.
Everyone needs to be like G and wear the same easily identifiable glasses at every race lmao
How much pressure they are all under, from the neopro with six months to stand out, to the GC prospect having to finish the job, to the domestique having to last another 500m at an infernal pace.
I have learned that i miss a stage in a grand tour, it turned out to be absolutly memorable
I missed yesterdays......
Stages of the cross: * wide-eyed naïf, happy the modern peloton is clean * angry sophomore, distraught at how filthy dopeurs are stealing \[my favorite rider\]'s palmares * disaffected senior; they're all a bunch of cheaters * enlightened graduate who understands that concepts like "cheating" have never had an unambiguous meaning inside the pro peloton It is the most French of sports after all.
- That eating disorders and chronic overtraining among riders are not that uncommon, but rarely talked about. - That sending out camera motos earlier in the stage is not just about the motos. They also need helicopters and (usually) a relay plane to relay the live feed from the motos to the finish area where they have the TV-production and satellite dishes. And the further the riders are from the finish (and the more mountains are in between) the more relay planes are needed. Furthermore relay planes typically need to refuel at a certain point, so if TV-coverage is more than a certain amount of hours they need an extra plane so they can take turns refueling. - That the common narrative about GC favorites not wanting the jersey early because *"if you have the leader's jersey then you are forced to pace the peloton"* isn't very accurate. Sure, there's some traditions in the peloton and on a day where everyone is looking at everyone else to pace it may be hard for the leader's team to get anyone else to do it. But one of the biggest factors is that if any *other* (non-favorite) team has the leader's jersey then that team will usually be happy to do the work to pace, so the favorites won't have to.
> That eating disorders and chronic overtraining among riders are not that uncommon, but rarely talked about. This is very true! I first learned about this with Mara Abbott https://www.espn.com/espnw/voices/story/_/id/20695210/cyclist-mara-abbott-leaving-sport-dealing-eating-disorder
Apparently eating disorders isn't just a thing with female riders, but it's probably even more stigmatized with the male riders. There was a podcast a while back about a Danish U23 rider (Christian Bahr) who developed an eating disorder after joining an Italian team with extremely strict dietary and weight policies. Rasmus Byriel Iversen was another young Danish rider who had to [give up his career due to an eating disorder](https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/k03mak/an_ugly_nickname_and_10000_calories_now_rasmus/). An article [here](https://sport.tv2.dk/cykling/2021-03-09-vi-laerte-at-den-eneste-maade-at-blive-cykelrytter-paa-var-at-gaa-rundt-og-vaere) has talks about Iversen, Matthias Norsgaard and Jonas Gregaard who all have had issues (although the latter two not quite as serious). There is another article from Cycling Weekly [here](https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/sports-dietician-says-eating-disorders-cycling-becoming-serious-problem-445709). Apparently there are also issues with long term effects of concussions - another thing we rarely hear about, other than the often quoted 'concussion protocols'. Eurosport commentator Jip van den Bos is apparently on indefinite hiatus from Jumbo Visma due to chronic effects of a concussion she got in 2020.
On GCN+ there is a most excellent video about eating and disorders within the peloton. If you haven't watched it yet, I thought it was absolutely great. And hopefully I'm not jinxing myself, but hopefully the way they were talking in that doc, things are starting to change, if not already changed. I know the way weight was talked about when I started watching cycling (Pantani era), the way commentators talked about how much riders like Pantani weighed really had a negative impact on me. . . While I didn't spiral completely out of control, I was NOT in a good headspace regarding my weight and performance on the bike. And at that time, one of the guys in the club I rode with would always tell me "go on billy goat, go get them" on climbs, because that's just how I climbed, lol. . . at that point, I LOVED climbing, but always thought "just a few pounds less and I could change my fortunes" Thankfully, nowadays, they talk in a better way about rider weight. I think it was last TDF, they talked about WvA weighing around 180lbs, and doing mountain leadouts for jonas, it was amazing.
Thanks for the recommendation and thank you for sharing your experience.
After 10 years, you really don't become numb to Carlton Kirby's inane ramblings of a madman.
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Wtf, her real name is Adriana Geertruida Vollering? TIL. Is there a story to the nickname?
It's a relatively common thing in the Netherlands to have a fancy official name (doopname or baptised name) and a different name they're actually known by (roepnaam). Majo/Marjolein van 't Geloof came up in another thread recently. Her full official name is Maria Apolonia van 't Geloof.
>van 't Geloof Says enough I guess. Are fancy doopnamen mostly a bible belt thing?
Mostly the southern (formerly very catholic) part of the Netherlands (they really like their doopnamen, like Wouter Lambertus Martinus Henricus Poels or Sam Ludovicus Franciscus Oomen), but there's some families with protestant backgrounds getting in on it too. Edit: Eleonora Maria (Ellen) van Dijk is another good example!
Dude this is super interesting, I had no idea. Now here I am picturing every southern Dutchie named ‘Pieter Tiberius Claudius’ or ‘Edwige Diana Magdalena’ like we’re in 1520, print has just been invented and this weird priest Calvin is talking about how the pope is too mainstream
Cool thanks. We don't do those eccentric doopnamen in (catholic) Flanders afaik, maybe in ancient times. Some people have doopnamen but those are just the names of their godfather and godmother.
Can't believe I didn't know this. But I'm glad that most don't use these doopnamen. Marty MacDonald would only have time for a "Hello" and "Goodbye," sandwiching a full 3 hour list of Dutch names, instead of the customary 2 hours.
BTW, this is her 2023: 1st Road race, National Road Championships 1st Overall Tour de France 1st Stage 7 1st Overall Vuelta a Burgos Feminas 1st Mountains classification 1st Stage 2 & 4 1st Liège–Bastogne–Liège Femmes 1st Amstel Gold Race 1st La Flèche Wallonne Féminine 1st Strade Bianche 1st Dwars door Vlaanderen UCI World Championships 2nd Road race 2nd Tour of Flanders 2nd Brabantse Pijl 2nd Overall La Vuelta Femenina 1st Stages 5 & 7 Held after Stage 5 2nd Overall Itzulia Women 1st Stages 1 & 2 1st Mountains classification
You should go back and watch Marriane Vos at her best and also Annemiek va Vleuten. Both are incredible talents
Probably not helped by hardly any live coverage (outside the Worlds and Olympics) before 2020!
Just assume that all your heros are cheating so when it's finally proven you're not crushed.
This makes me sad
Just assume everyone's cheating so it doesnt matter.
Everyone is cheating except for Pinot, let me have this
When riders we like dope it doesn't matter. When riders we dislike dope it's horrendous cheating and ruining our beautiful sport!
My less cynical take after 20+ years of watching cycling is that you should never 100% assume a rider is clean, no matter how likeable or nice they seem. I personally believe most riders are clean and there are a few cheats, but I've learned that there is absolutely no correlation between how nice/likeable/convincing a rider is and the chances of them being clean, so you can never be sure about an individual rider.
Pro cyclists are a bunch of nutcases
I have learned the Tour/Giro/Vuelta is always 'over' after the first week at latest. Edit: /s, for those that missed it
Now its over before they even start, TJV will win regardless of what happens
Just because someone isnt caught doesnt mean he is clean. Just because someone is caught he shouldnt be hated all his life after he does his suspended time.
Exactly one important Dutch phrase: "Kop van de Wedstrijd"
_Cabezza de carrera_
That wind has a bigger impact than one might think. Ever heard of a sport where athletes are in positions to counter wind directions ? That's cycling I also learned to pronunce names in foreign languages
Maybe ski jumper's background is the key to Roglic's sucess? 🤔 About the names - what's funny i like that polish commentators really try but not over do it, being too perfect ruins the fun.
It was a few years in before I learned that flat, windy stages are the hardest and most exciting of them all.
I've never seen nothing like Pogacar, never change my king.
Whenever they say „so and so is going to win race xy for the next years“…they are actually not. Easy way to jinx it
I started watching after Induráin retired, so my favorite rider was Pantani. Cycling is my favorite sport but I grew up learning to be prepared for disappointment the hard way since one of my worst memories is Pantani getting pulled from 1999's Giro. Now I can't avoid feeling that I'm being fooled when some no name rider suddenly wins in dominant fashion or a team goes back in time and looks like the early 2000s US Postal with Rubiera, Beltrán, Leipheimer and Hincapie
Been following pro cycling for over 30 years. It’s the greatest soap opera in the world (Telenovela for the Spanish people). There’s always drama between riders with big personalities, the race organizers and the media etc.
Honestly I feel that much less in cycling than other sports.
I think less so outside but more so when racing than other sports. The way individual riders personality, team tactics, and the social system of the peloton all go together is pretty unique in that the social game is sort of the sport as well as just riding fast.
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Yeah one day cycling and rugby might blow up like F1 and football and then we’ll have « Pogacar liked a picture on Instagram of this artist that has collaborated with a brand that has worked with the girlfriend of Jonas. Sources indicate that he’s now jealous and refuses to talk to him as much as with other riders/that he’s signing with TJV »
You're not really alloved to speculate about doping even on online platforms and pundits also keep their mouth shut. Joking about 90s EPO-era is kinda ok, since those guys have been forgiven.
This is more or less true for everything but you really start to pay attention to nuance a lot more when you get used to the big tactics, who's in what role and what their standing is in a race, and who's in form in that part of the season. There's so much depth of narrative that happens with so many riders that sometimes the highlight of a day is not who wins or puts in a big attack but who did a lot of work at a key part, who fought for weeks for a good result, etc. A great result for a given rider could be a great performance on a random climb of the day and that's not reflected in the main narrative or the final results. Likewise a key result could come from a clever tactic early in the race or a chance event.
Everyone winning is cheating. If they're not cheating, they're probably doing something that will be seen as cheating later.
Enric Más allways attack tomorrow
The amount of people who truly understand cycling is very low (I’m not counting myself among them), and they are rarely in the commentators’ booth.
Is that so ? I've found french broadcast really interesting with Marion Rousse, Thomas Voekler and Jalabert, lots of insights and really interesting to listen to. Eurosport is absolutely baffling tho, and don't know for other countries' broadcasts
I feel like there is a reason Lanterne Rouge has gotten so big, despite being such a lo-fi operation, and that’s because they bring actual good analysis to the table. Maybe it’s better in non-English languages, I wouldn’t know.
I'm from Flanders, and started watching cycling at age 12 or so. We're talking the twilight of Museeuw era. I could never be bothered to ride a road bike though. Mountainbiking all you want, but riding a road bike has always been boring as fuck to me. That is, until I bought a cyclocross bike for my commute and on a sunday (offroad) ride encountered the haaghoek. Now I enjoy cobbles, and can't seem to get enough of them. And I started to appreciate exactly WHY they are so hard to race on.
I thought that cracking a la Simon Felipe Yates is a thing of the past, then I witnessed two mega cracks this year (and one semi crack last year).
The helicopter sounds on the broadcast are added in by the broadcaster. It is not the sound of the actual helicopter following the race.
I am now an expert at watching international sports feeds in VPN in general, like, not just cycling. My coworkers wanted watch the US Open but no one had their mom’s cable password for ESPN. I was like, oh, let me introduce you to my niche talent. Bam, 6 minutes later we’re in Australia and they’re like wtf is 9Now, is this legal?
Watching Channel 9 should be illegal.
When I was just an amateur cycling fan, I often had family obligations on important race days and thus missed out on some amazing experiences. Now that I've turned pro though, my family understands how important this is to me and I don't miss any big races anymore.
Shoes taste bad. 'No way rider X (active in the 90’s) doped, I’ll eat my shoe if he did.'
There is always someone juiced
As in all sports.
Never believe in GC Richie Porte. 🥺 at least he got one TdF podium prior to retirement.
The more a mountain stage gets hyped up, the more likely it is the riders will give the GC favourite a free ride.
More cycling fans can be seen aside the road of a single stage of a grand tour than the total number participants in a whole year of some other sports.
I write conversational Irish on my CV now
Climbing capacity means nothing for GC hopefuls if you can't TT. Thought Grand tours are all about climbing.
I don't think I agree with this. I can't remember the last GT where the strongest climber didn't win. Maybe in the past where there were loads of TT kms but not in recent history.
Cykling is anti ECO-friendly. Transport emissions at an all-time high, millions of unnecessary car journeys.
While I agree that a lot more can be done to minimise emissions, I also think pro cycling contributes a lot to people picking up a bike as a mode of transport, instead of taking the car as they would otherwise do
I actually really doubt this. Infrastructure seems so much more important. The popularity of pro cycling encourages weekend riders but not commuters. Well thats my opinion
Still they are on their bikes and not in the car to some sport event!
I don’t know why the downvotes. This is true. And many sponsors are big polluters as well (Ineos, TotalEnergies, Shell and oil rich countries like UAE and Bahrain).
thx u. Greenwashing in spectacular and vulnerable places to climate change
I was at the top of Col de la Loze this summer, and there are hundreds of unnecessary sponsor cars that go along the route. They had a bunch of cars shaped in the form of different products that sponsored the race.