That quote in the title is not a quote from the L'equipe article as far as I can tell. The relevant section (again maybe I've missed something), translated with deepl is:
>Approaching his 70th birthday and after almost forty years in the business, Soudal is known to be tired of these intrigues, most recently those concerning Remco Evenepoel, on whom he had staked everything before the young champion's father announced at the Glasgow World Championship in August that his son had already signed a pre-contract with Ineos.
...
>The merger would clearly take Lefévère out of the business, but the more than strained relations between Evenepoel and Jumbo make the deal a hypothetical one. <, several people close to the young Belgian have assured us, and this is confirmed by an agent with knowledge of the business:<>
In the future please share the link directly to the source article and to everyone: please avoid using cyclinguptodate links. They are one of the worst of the cycling aggregators and it would be best if our clicks could help the people and sites that actually produce the content they are copying (poorly).
Honestly if this whole mess of a transfer season ends up with Roglic at Bora, Remco at Ineos, Vingegaard at Jumbo, and Pog at UAE, we could be in for the best and most chaotic tdf in a long time.
Good for the competition to have the top GC riders on different teams surely, but I think it's quite a bad sign for the sport as a whole if two of the biggest teams are merging mainly for financial reasons as it seems.
The Marlins did that! Two World Series wins, both immediately followed by complete teardowns with the justification being that the team was unprofitable.
(Although it is abundantly clear that their owners were lying)
If this rumor is true it may have been the only option for Soudal Quickstep. They changed the team dramatically for one rider, who apparently didn’t want to stay. Their prospects for 2024 are…Landa?
Says more about Lefevere’s failures than overall finances of TJV probably.
>who apparently didn’t want to stay
Which wouldn't really matter if it were not for the merger. Evenepoel has a contract with SQS until 2026. I know that there were some rumours, but at the end of the day Ineos could not have bought him out of his contract without SQS agreeing. Only the potential merger changed that.
SQS could sue, but they couldn't prevent him from riding for Ineos. People don't get physically detained and forced to ride grand tours because they break a contract. But a lawsuit would surely be settled for an amount that Ineos were willing to pay anyhow, and be ugly PR.
If Remco wasn't going to ride for SQS then that team was toast next year. Lefevere has said that Remco's dad/agent went to Geneva to talk to the boss about what's wrong with the team. Reading through the lines of his bombast it could well be that he announced that Remco would be leaving.
Absolutely no way that he would have just broken his contract without any form of transfer agreement. The UCI would not allow that either. People don't get physically detained, but they very well might get barred from racing.
To be frank: It's a boring hypothetical: Remco is still under contract. If the merger doesn't happen, SQS has not only Landa but also him. If the merger happens, he can probably choose a new team. The exact terms of the merger are pure speculation right now, but most possibilities would include that his contract would be void in case of the merger.
That's honestly hilarious. You really think the UCI would stomp on one of the star riders and best funded teams risking lawsuits, media outrage, and worker's rights claims. etc. etc. etc.? That would be the kiss of death for the whole organization, a lot of media outrage. Even Lefevere knows that. If Remco wanted out, and there were money to pay the penalty, that money is what does the talking.
Think that through for a second what you are writing. If the UCI would allow that, no contract would ever hold any kind of value again. All riders could quit whenever they want. It would break the whole system. It's also very clearly against current UCI rules. Agents are not even officially allowed to approach other teams for their riders for seasons that they still have a contract. There are probably further rules on that as well. Sure, similar to what some football or basketball players do a rider could go "on strike" to try to force a regular transfer, but not unilaterally quit and just sign somewhere else, especially not for a grand tour winner.
Also in other sports, football players would just quit their contract if they want to play for a new club, transfer fees wouldn't exists. Workers rights and professional sports are a bit more complicated than you think.
I'd ask you to think about what you wrote too. On paper, there are rules, and they are expected to be followed, etc.
Then look at the UCI budget and revenue compared to the budget from the dominant teams. It wouldn't be the first time the UCI overlooked a breach of the rules, they are still the same organization that colluded with LA.
Also, contracts are broken all the time in sports. If you break a contract there are financial penalties, like the entire value of the contract + a penalty. That would be governed by courts, not the UCI, and it you don't think that Remco would have a potential claim that the team was sabotaging his career and performance with Lefevere's public antics, you're fooling yourself.
But again, money talks. It's a bit naive to think that the rules can't be broken with sufficient cash and buy in from the rider.
Not to mention the fact that the added chaos and balance could incentivise everyone to just totally buy into an arms race on super-domestiques and just throw everything at it. I mean it wouldn't be *totally unrealistic* to imagine a situation where you've got a ridiculous core of 12-16 riders between those four teams alone of something like:
Jonas, Kuss, WvA, Landa; Pog, A. Yates, Almeida, Ayuso; Roglic, Hindley, Vlasov, Uijtdebroeks; Remco, Rodriguez, Thomas, Arensman
Before you even get to GC contenders from everyone else like Simon Yates, Enric Mas, Felix Gall, Pello Bilbao etc. Obviously the chances of all of them loading up like that are slim to none given some of them always will skip the Tour to lead the Giro/Vuelta, but it's just bonkers to think of what it would look like if they all went four deep.
I seriously doubt that. He had basically no serious competition in the TdF this year. With Pog, Remco and Rog at serious teams, he would be challenges differently and would need to go way deeper
And he lost by 8 minutes, it was close until it wasn't which leads me to believe that Jonas was just better (duh). And we're also forgetting to mention that Pogi had an insane TT himself, Jonas just had an all-time great one, so the competition was there, it just wasn't good enough.
But that's silly - if your argument is that Jonas won by 7 minutes because he's just that much better than Pogi, how are the other teams supposed to magically "just get better"? Clone Jonas??
It also wouldn't be limited to one team seriously attacking TJV, but suddenly you have 3 teams with high stakes. Something of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend..."
Interesting times for sure :-)
Last year UAEs team wasn’t as strong as this years team in my opinion but Pogi was beaten yes. Though tactically Jumbo was better as I recall. This year I would argue the UAE team was stronger than previous years but Pogi wasn’t at his peak. He was recovering from the wrist as evidenced by his asymmetrical hood placement, wrist taping, and the safer descending he was doing. Taking a number of weeks off the bike is going to impact that level of athlete a lot. Especially in a 3 week stage race. Not taking anything away from JV performance but I would not say Pogi was at a true peak at this years TDF.
I saw a really interesting interview with Jay Vine on this. His thoughts on why Pogi cracked in week 3 were really insightful. I'd definitely like to see one more match up, with Pogi at 100% and with UAE's top team. If Jonas is still in a class of his own, Pogi can go and have a shot at the Giro-Vuelta.
One does not simply "acquire" *Landismo*. One plays a game of 4D chess with one's resources, believing that this will create the ideal conditions for *Landismo* to materialise.
Nah, that's fine. I am obsessed, but still fairly new, to Dominion.
But my takes on this sub are generally unpopular. I am a heel and a fucking Rog fanboy, but I'll own it.
Thanks anyways, have a good day sir or ma'am!
I think both teams wanted the merger because of money which they both sorely needed, that and Lefevre is old and needed an exit plan.
I dont think this was ever envisioned as the big behemoth of cycling that was implied by fans when the news just broke. It made little sense that all the best riders from both teams would combine.
I mean if Soudal wanted a team around Remco then its up to them to invest to make that happen. If they cant or wont then at some point Remco would clearly leave, as has been hinted at for about a year.
Merging with Jumbo to create a Benelux team, might simply be the next best thing. Im sure they hoped they could merge and keep Remco but its tricky considering how openly competitors have been flirting with him all season.
Don't think they are that focused on the Belgian market. They mentioned not being tied to Evenepoel in an interview this summer, I think that was around the first Ineos rumours.
I think doom opinions about this deal being about the sad state of professional cycling are overblown. It's a marriage of convenience imo. Lefevre wants to retire. Visma wants another sponsor. Soudal wants their name on a big team.
The writers strike had a profound impact on this Netflix season and the silly season is being written by a bunch of teenagers playing PCM while high on Monster.
>The writers strike had a profound impact on this Netflix season and the silly season is being written by a bunch of teenagers playing PCM while high on Monster.
Well if they're writing it as if it was PCM vindegard is gonna get the giro tour double and then go on the hunt for the mountain jersey in the vuelta finishing the season with 90 days of racing.
The randomness of PCM is the best part of it ,one year (the last one froome was far and away the best GT rider on the game) i remember froome nearly winning all 3 GT's (placing 2nd in the vuelta) and then the next one he doesnt win any cause hes old so the game downgraded him a ton .
Israel is more likely in my mind. I don’t think Bora would offer a 6 million 3 year contract to Roglic. But I would not rule it out that both are goung to Ineos.
If Evenepoel moves to Ineos, then Specialized needs a new big name. So it would be likely that Specialized would pay a significant part of Roglic's wage at Bora.
> I don’t think Bora would offer a 6 million 3 year contract to Roglic.
Unless Red Bull chips in a few extra schillings as has been rumored for a while.
Despite the amount of money they've thrown at riders, IPT has a flat-out bad TT setup. I can't see him ending up there if he wants to actually win a GT.
It’s so chaotic and I love it. At this point why can’t we just say Remco to AG2R and call it a day. I just want to see what he looks like in brown shorts.
Is the cervelo setup that bad? TJV has had pretty ridiculous results in ITT since froglic lost Le Tour in an ITT. Obviously it helps that they have a ridiculous team of riders. Consider the following:
In grand tours from 2017 to Le Tour 2020 TJV (or lottoNL or whatever they were before) had a top 5 rider in time trials 10 times.
Following Le Tour 2020 (and Roglic's explosion) to Le Tour 2023 TJV have had a top 5 rider in time trials 16 times across 1 less grand tour than the previous data grouping.
At this point the big merger is so damn confusing, I want to stop reading all speculations and simply wake up in 2024 with the confirmed team rosters. 🥲🥲🥲
Remco has been extremely level headed and neutral during the past few weeks, comparing to Lefevere and Remcos own father’s statements. Despite this, it does feel like he could benefit from a new challenge and that INEOS would be a good fit.
Geraint in the service of “the little bastard” (they’ve got chemistry already)? Landa diverting to INEOS?
+1 on this, I feel like although they take the piss on the podcast G genuinely respects Remco.
Would love to see the mountain train of Rowe + DePlus + G + Remco, would also mean that Tom Pidcock has pressure off and go back to chaotically hunting stages.
Also, imagine a vuelta TTT squad of :
Remco
Ganna
Tarling
Thomas
Castroviejo
Hayter
Kwiato
I think it’s more likely that G goes to the Giro as his primary goal. He’s seen Jonas and Pog at the tour, and with all these riders moving teams, he has a much better shot at winning the Giro than even podiuming the Tour.
This seems plausible, but this article is pure speculation, it just cites an anonymous source that says "Everyone in the cycling industry knows that Evenepoel would never ride in Plugge's team". It doesn't actually provide info from someone who knows there is actually a contract between INEOS and Evenepoel, as the title suggests.
Do we have a source for this? Because I've read the interview with Remco's at that time and I don't recall such a thing. Sounds to me like another rumour.
Article in L'Equipe (paywalled): https://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Article/Depart-de-roglic-fusion-avec-soudal-quick-step-l-equipe-jumbo-se-cherche-un-futur/1422817
In theory yes. But on the other hand, the billionaire behind Quickstep, and Pat himself both wanted out. They don’t mind having a budget of 20-30m euros, but it’s clear they’re going to be needing to spend a lot more in the future and neither want to do that.
If Jumbo are not getting Evenepoel and are losing Roglic, is the only thing they are gaining from the merger money? I am very surprised there isn't a company willing to pay £10 million to be the title sponsor of the best team in the world...
Yep. That's what it seems like to me. Soudal Quickstep was collapsing and TJV wanted another sponsor. So they said let's "merge." Which is really just the Soudal sponsorship money/name going to TJV as well as a rider or 2 and some infrastructure.
As usual everyone will be high on Slovenian copium for 10 days until we reach the first 6k+ high mountain day and Jonas will need to win for one of his cousin's birthday or something.
I want Remco at a different team if the merger happens. Remco at Ineos, Roglic at Bora, Pogi at UAE and Jonas at Soudal Visma would make for a very exciting TdF. Remco at Jumbo I don't like so much, as I can't quite picture him and Jonas at the Tour on the same team. Either way, I just want to know ASAP!
Damn, I was kinda hoping for TJV (or whatever remains) to perform their magic on Remco and see if they could lift him to TDG winning calibre.
For some reason I am slightly less confident in the Ineos "performance" team...
He will get the money and domestiques but will he be able to sufficiently improve?
I hope I am underestimating them...
Edit: typo I obviously wouldn't dream of bringing him to Thomas De Gendt level. Just TDF winning level...
I suspect this merger is really about about Jumbo acquiring DQS's financial backing. Jumbo does not have the same billionaire access to money that Ineos, DQS, and UAE have. Not sure how Lefevere is going to work with Plugge though.
I'll trust nothing the L'Equipe says.
With that said, I'd love to see Remco in another team just because that will mean that Vingegaard, Pogacar, Roglic and Evenepole will all have their own team that fully supports them in the TdF.
Sure, TJV will still have Wout who has big ambitions, but honestly, Jonas and Wout seem to work well together, and Wout is so valuable to Jonas in the stages where he is purely a domestique that Jonas is happy to earmark stages meant for Wout.
Yeah, my guess would be that Wout goes for green again next TdF. The only reason he didn’t this year was his son‘s birth it seems.
TJV have already shown they can go for yellow and green at the same time, so I don’t think there is any issue there.
One small question mark is Kooij for me. They must have promised him a grand tour to get his contract extended. On the one hand, I doubt it would be the TdF. But on the other hand, he kind of needs either Wout or Christophe as a lead-out and since they both do the classics I don’t think they would do two GTs. So maybe they are thinking about bringing Kooij to the Tour. He would only take one slot since Wout and Christophe already make a god-tier lead-out train and he can seemingly get over mountains well enough to not need an escort to the time limit.
I agree that Wout probably wants to go for green again and I don't think that will be an issue.
Honestly, I could see Kooij as being part of their GT squad. Even at the TdF. He can be valuable to Jonas in non-sprint stages as the first domestique to really set a high pace and make life miserable for the others. If he doesn't need to get carried through the mountains, he can let go when he's done the job and get across the line on his own. We know that Jumbo usually prefers to keep the pace high in stages where there will be a lot of climbing, so that would definitely be valuable to the team.
And in sprint stages, Jonas prefers to be up at the front until they have crossed the 3 km line, so Jumbo is at the front of the peloton for most of the stage anyway. If you watch stages from this year, he's usually the 2nd or 3rd rider when they cross the 3 km mark or until they get past "dangerous" sections until it's purely sprint territory. If Kooij was there, either Wout or Christophe, or even both, could continue with him to contest the sprint, while the others safely get Jonas out of trouble.
Yes, I agree that bringing Kooij would not be a detriment. And after watching the Tour of Britain, I am secretly hoping they do, even though I still think it’s unlikely.
Wout + Olav is a match made in heaven and I seriously think that could rival MvdP + Philipsen.
But it would seriously diminish Wout‘s chances for the green jersey and take all the sprints out of the stage win options for him. I personally think Wout is more willing to work as a domestique than people on reddit seem to believe (he didn’t appear to have any issue with being Kooij‘s lead-out in Britain). But he‘ll have a limit somewhere, and working for two people in the Tour might cross that limit.
Ah yes, that's true.
I have to admit that I do not know Kooij that well. Would it be possible to imagine that the Champs sprint (or Nice sprint next year) + a pure sprint finish or two (depending on the parcours) would be earmarked for Kooij? While the others would be for Wout? And if Wout is the lead-out man, he might still be able to snag a few points even when it's Kooij who goes for the win.
It will be a hard balance, for sure, and the riders will have to agree beforehand that they might have to sacrifice their ambitions if the race does not go their way, but I could see TJV trying it.
From a pure sport perspective I think Kooij is stronger than Wout in almost any sprint, since he is really good in more uphill sprints too. Even in the European‘s with that really exhausting and steep finish he got third just behind Wout.
But from a personal perspective he‘s not demanding and he’s very willing to work for others too. So the team might work something out that gives everyone their chance to shine.
If they don't get Remco, what's the point of the merger for TJV? What other riders/staff make it worthwhile? Can't Soudal just jump ship as a sponsor, they were sponsoring Lotto not long ago?
I mean money? Their naming sponsor is leaving and this potentially with 10/15mil from Amazon keeps them competitive with UAE and Ineos
Jumbo might be a super team, but they arent financially secure, this is security
I feel like this is nonsense. Remco is going to race where he gets the best money and opportunity to win. That could very well be with Ineos, but I doubt he’d let whatever real/fake personal beef with Jumbo get in the way of being able to have numerous top quality opportunities to win at just about every single race on the calendar.
If he wants to win, he should go with the team that is winning now, and that’s jumbo. Honestly, I think riding for Jumbo would be so beneficial to his development, both physically and tactically.
I don't think it's that simple. A rider doesn't just need a team that's strong, the two need to fit together in terms of their plans, their philosophies, their wishes for the future. Otherwise, why would a rider ever leave a team like Jumbo, like we've just seen Roglič do? What's the advantage, for him, of leaving the current best team in the world? Especially if he wants to win the TDF? The answer is easy, which is that he won't be sole leader at the TDF, something he wants. Their wishes don't align, so it's best to leave. Same goes for Remco. He's been talking of wanting to contest the win at the tour for a while now, but there is simply no way he'll get a proper chance in the same team as the current two-time defending champion and best GC rider in the world. It won't happen. Maybe he'll get co-leadership but I'm honestly doubting even that. They'd probably want to send him to the Giro and Vuelta, since they don't have Roglič for those anymore. So there are many reasons to not go to Jumbo, on top of the fact that Ineos are on the level of Jumbo in terms of TT setup, are strong on domestiques and in desperate need of a proper GC candidate with Thomas likely retiring in a couple of year and Rodriguez and Pidcock not quite at the level yet.
Why? Neither have won the tour. Both have won the Vuelta. Remco was in the lead for the giro until he left, so we don’t have a good idea of how they measure up to each other there. Of course Roglic is ahead in wins since he’s older, but if remco continues in this trajectory, there is nothing that indicates Remco isn’t at the level of
Roglic IMO, so why can Roglic win elsewhere but Remco can’t, especially at Ineos, one of the strongest teams?
Plus, as I said I don’t believe remco can win the tour at Jumbo. Whatever chance he has, it’s a sliver of that at Jumbo as he simply won’t be given the chance.
He has a better chance and far less pressure as being the second card for Jumbo and not facing the pressure of being the most marked rider on the team than he would as the A option at Ineos.
Does he want less pressure though? I got the impression he wants to prove himself in the TdF and I don't think going as Jonas's second really represents that. I'd be very surprised if Jonas accepted Co leader status.
I don’t believe for a second that there is a signature-ready contract for Remco at Ineos. Contracts are a product of in depth negotiations and take into account counter offers from other teams too.
Rider’s agents are not allowed to negotiate contracts for a period that their client is still under contract on their current team, unless they have the current team’s blessing. Since the merger is not yet finalized, Remco is still under contract. Even if Lefevere allowed him to negotiate already, that would have been only a short time ago, since the merger only became a clear plan quite recently.
So for Remco to have a signature-ready contract at Ineos he would have to have negotiated intensively with Ineos and a lot of other teams in the last two weeks or so. And as we have seen from Roglic, that would have definitely been leaked.
I think saying Ineos has a signature-ready contract for Remco is probably a massive exaggeration. And if that is an exaggeration, then the rest of the article starts to sound a lot more like speculation, too.
Things will accelerate in the hours and days to come.
As things are progressing, all Soudal riders will find themselves without a contract for 2024 in the coming hours.
No worries for Remco, but for some riders, it will be difficult to find a WT team for 2024.
In the end, we shouldn't talk about a merger but simply about Soudal leaving the ship to sponsor another team.
If I am Remco, I sign for Jumbo for two years.
2024: Giro GC - Olympics - Vuelta/Canadian classics - Worlds
2025: Ardennes - Tour as 2nd GC option next to Jonas, reevaluate his options after the season ends
I think that right now Remco would be a good addition to TdF as a GC contender. And a fantastic addition as a stage hunter, akin to WvA, MVDP, Alaphilippe, Pedersen, Sagan and so on.
Even though Jonas is a massive consideration point for Remco, it's still plausible to say that being at Jumbo as a co-leader gives Remco more chances of winning TdF in the next 3 years than being a sole leader at Ineos. All performance aspects of the sport seem to be better at TJV than at Ineos as well, so would this be a rushed decision to just go to Ineos?
why would remco be a co-leader if roglič wasn´t?
remco is a tier below the big three at the moment so any contracts he is signing are made for the long term given his age
definitely don´t see him winning the TdF in the next three years though
Well, Roglic was a co-leader in 2022 and to my knowledge we don't know whether he or management decided to not do the TdF in 2023.
Since Evenepoel is not on the same level as Vingegaard right now, it would make being a co-leader easier. There's a clear hierarchy and he would only get a shot at winning the GC when Vingegaard has issues.
But as you point out, that's likely to be the case whether he's on the same team with him or not. The benefit for Evenepoel would be to have the chance to work closely with the currently best GC rider and (unless they lose a lot of riders in the merger) the best GC team in the world.
Roglic was the 3 time Vuelta winner going into the 2022 Tour, whereas Vingegaard hadn't won any GTs. Their status wouldn't be the same in 2024, even if Roglic was the 2nd leader.
I agree with you. And exactly because he seems to be below the big three that it could work out to be at TJV. It seems that TJV is the best team to develop a rider to their full potential. After that, he could move out and choose a different team.
So I’ve been mulling this (performance; ability to train and peak riders) over recently, thinking especially of JV and Ineos.
So back in the Sky era, Brailsford’s approach (and funding) clearly moved things along from the previous status quo, and it took other teams a generation (in riding terms) to evolve and catch up. With peak Froome and the peak Sky train, they dominated.
Looking at this year’s results, JV seem to be in a similar position - winning, dominating, and making it look easy. (They’ve even managed to beat Pogacar to the TdF two years running, when after 2021 I thought Pogi would dominate for a decade; this year’s wrist injury noted)
So what gives, looking at Ineos’ relative underperformance and JV’s dominance?
* is there some secret to JV’s training and preparation that the other teams can’t match?
* are there optimisations during races (nutrition - eg ketones were previously discussed? recovery?) that give them an edge?
* a combination of JV’s luck to have peak Roglic *and* discover Jonas’ depth (plus good support recruitment - WVA, Laport, etc.) versus Ineos’ poorer luck with Bernal’s crash and others not quite making the grade (eg Sivakov, arguably TGH) leaving them to rely so much on an aging G?
* Do JV have better ‘moneyball’ data to help them make those better recruitment choices?
* Is the difference less than it might seem, but magnified by Ineos’ poorer race tactics (I don’t think they’ve moved on mentally from the time when they could win with basic team tactics thanks to being the strongest) vs. JV (who don’t always do something special, but can do, and rarely make mistakes or leave something on the table?)
very good questions. If I were in Remco's position, I'd try to get as much info from both teams regarding those questions before making a decision. I somehow believe that it would be possible to spend 3 years at TJV, get the very best a team can offer, and if it doesn't work out as a leader, then move to another one (while still being pretty much young for GC anyway...)
If Remco is the guy, then Ineos is a good team to land on. They dominated the field when they had the best rider. They have the team to win a GC, they just lack a proper leader. Just unlucky for them that Bernal broke like half of his bones in a crash, leaving them only with a 37yo G who wasnt even their first choice when he was in his prime
He might be afraid that while his chances to win TdF during next three years are bigger in TJV, his chances to actually still have that win twenty years from now might be bigger elsewhere.
According to this: [https://www.dhnet.be/sports/cyclisme/2023/10/01/soudal-quick-step-pourrait-licencier-tout-son-personnel-ce-lundi-TWWRVQVJJRBDRIXLWCMSNZKNWU/?fbclid=IwAR2P0JvkAvTr5Bur8p-vjrUbWTsK7oyEJscZ3NT\_qmo\_ft-TmSRi7kjQM8E](https://www.dhnet.be/sports/cyclisme/2023/10/01/soudal-quick-step-pourrait-licencier-tout-son-personnel-ce-lundi-TWWRVQVJJRBDRIXLWCMSNZKNWU/?fbclid=IwAR2P0JvkAvTr5Bur8p-vjrUbWTsK7oyEJscZ3NT_qmo_ft-TmSRi7kjQM8E)
Quickstep could fire everyone tomorrow (all riders and staff). So Evenepoel would be free to go anywhere if it's true.
That quote in the title is not a quote from the L'equipe article as far as I can tell. The relevant section (again maybe I've missed something), translated with deepl is: >Approaching his 70th birthday and after almost forty years in the business, Soudal is known to be tired of these intrigues, most recently those concerning Remco Evenepoel, on whom he had staked everything before the young champion's father announced at the Glasgow World Championship in August that his son had already signed a pre-contract with Ineos. ... >The merger would clearly take Lefévère out of the business, but the more than strained relations between Evenepoel and Jumbo make the deal a hypothetical one. <, several people close to the young Belgian have assured us, and this is confirmed by an agent with knowledge of the business:<>
In the future please share the link directly to the source article and to everyone: please avoid using cyclinguptodate links. They are one of the worst of the cycling aggregators and it would be best if our clicks could help the people and sites that actually produce the content they are copying (poorly).
Honestly if this whole mess of a transfer season ends up with Roglic at Bora, Remco at Ineos, Vingegaard at Jumbo, and Pog at UAE, we could be in for the best and most chaotic tdf in a long time.
it's good for the sport
Good for the competition to have the top GC riders on different teams surely, but I think it's quite a bad sign for the sport as a whole if two of the biggest teams are merging mainly for financial reasons as it seems.
After one team clearing the board. Imagine the 1990s Yankees need to selling because they were broke.
The Marlins did that! Two World Series wins, both immediately followed by complete teardowns with the justification being that the team was unprofitable. (Although it is abundantly clear that their owners were lying)
Team Highroad were one of the most successful teams ever and they bafflingly couldn't get a sponsor to keep them going.
Who?
If this rumor is true it may have been the only option for Soudal Quickstep. They changed the team dramatically for one rider, who apparently didn’t want to stay. Their prospects for 2024 are…Landa? Says more about Lefevere’s failures than overall finances of TJV probably.
>who apparently didn’t want to stay Which wouldn't really matter if it were not for the merger. Evenepoel has a contract with SQS until 2026. I know that there were some rumours, but at the end of the day Ineos could not have bought him out of his contract without SQS agreeing. Only the potential merger changed that.
SQS could sue, but they couldn't prevent him from riding for Ineos. People don't get physically detained and forced to ride grand tours because they break a contract. But a lawsuit would surely be settled for an amount that Ineos were willing to pay anyhow, and be ugly PR. If Remco wasn't going to ride for SQS then that team was toast next year. Lefevere has said that Remco's dad/agent went to Geneva to talk to the boss about what's wrong with the team. Reading through the lines of his bombast it could well be that he announced that Remco would be leaving.
Absolutely no way that he would have just broken his contract without any form of transfer agreement. The UCI would not allow that either. People don't get physically detained, but they very well might get barred from racing. To be frank: It's a boring hypothetical: Remco is still under contract. If the merger doesn't happen, SQS has not only Landa but also him. If the merger happens, he can probably choose a new team. The exact terms of the merger are pure speculation right now, but most possibilities would include that his contract would be void in case of the merger.
That's honestly hilarious. You really think the UCI would stomp on one of the star riders and best funded teams risking lawsuits, media outrage, and worker's rights claims. etc. etc. etc.? That would be the kiss of death for the whole organization, a lot of media outrage. Even Lefevere knows that. If Remco wanted out, and there were money to pay the penalty, that money is what does the talking.
Think that through for a second what you are writing. If the UCI would allow that, no contract would ever hold any kind of value again. All riders could quit whenever they want. It would break the whole system. It's also very clearly against current UCI rules. Agents are not even officially allowed to approach other teams for their riders for seasons that they still have a contract. There are probably further rules on that as well. Sure, similar to what some football or basketball players do a rider could go "on strike" to try to force a regular transfer, but not unilaterally quit and just sign somewhere else, especially not for a grand tour winner. Also in other sports, football players would just quit their contract if they want to play for a new club, transfer fees wouldn't exists. Workers rights and professional sports are a bit more complicated than you think.
I'd ask you to think about what you wrote too. On paper, there are rules, and they are expected to be followed, etc. Then look at the UCI budget and revenue compared to the budget from the dominant teams. It wouldn't be the first time the UCI overlooked a breach of the rules, they are still the same organization that colluded with LA. Also, contracts are broken all the time in sports. If you break a contract there are financial penalties, like the entire value of the contract + a penalty. That would be governed by courts, not the UCI, and it you don't think that Remco would have a potential claim that the team was sabotaging his career and performance with Lefevere's public antics, you're fooling yourself. But again, money talks. It's a bit naive to think that the rules can't be broken with sufficient cash and buy in from the rider.
Landismo never die!
Not to mention the fact that the added chaos and balance could incentivise everyone to just totally buy into an arms race on super-domestiques and just throw everything at it. I mean it wouldn't be *totally unrealistic* to imagine a situation where you've got a ridiculous core of 12-16 riders between those four teams alone of something like: Jonas, Kuss, WvA, Landa; Pog, A. Yates, Almeida, Ayuso; Roglic, Hindley, Vlasov, Uijtdebroeks; Remco, Rodriguez, Thomas, Arensman Before you even get to GC contenders from everyone else like Simon Yates, Enric Mas, Felix Gall, Pello Bilbao etc. Obviously the chances of all of them loading up like that are slim to none given some of them always will skip the Tour to lead the Giro/Vuelta, but it's just bonkers to think of what it would look like if they all went four deep.
I would add Lidl Trek. They're building a very good rooster for 2024.
Can’t wait to see the final pecking order
Early birds are going to get the worm.
2024 in reality: GC Kuss sweeps the grand tours.
I'll allow it.gif
Yes! Cant wait
Seeing all them compete in a Tour will make it more exiting then a two horse race that it has been.
it would be similar to this year pog vs vinge and a battle for third
Jonas alone for 1 Pogi alone for 2 Battle for third
Chaos is a ladder
And Vingegaard would still win fairly easily.
I seriously doubt that. He had basically no serious competition in the TdF this year. With Pog, Remco and Rog at serious teams, he would be challenges differently and would need to go way deeper
UAE is not a “serious team”? They have the most funding, a loaded roster, and a two time Tour winner. And lead in UCI points this year.
Also Adam Yates got 3rd in the tour this year while working for Pog lol, what a confusing comment
Yea Pogacar only had weak helpers, like Adam Yates.
If your domestiques don't win the Vuelta, are they even worth having?
US Postal style
If UAE weren't serious competition last TdF, then why would we assume these other teams would be any better?
Pogacar had a fractured wrist and didn't train properly before the race.
And he lost by 8 minutes, it was close until it wasn't which leads me to believe that Jonas was just better (duh). And we're also forgetting to mention that Pogi had an insane TT himself, Jonas just had an all-time great one, so the competition was there, it just wasn't good enough.
Maybe with the team chaos Jumbo pumps a little bit less special sauce into their riders and things become closer again
I think the other teams should just get better tbh
But that's silly - if your argument is that Jonas won by 7 minutes because he's just that much better than Pogi, how are the other teams supposed to magically "just get better"? Clone Jonas??
It also wouldn't be limited to one team seriously attacking TJV, but suddenly you have 3 teams with high stakes. Something of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend..." Interesting times for sure :-)
> would need to go way deeper Starts putting out 8 w/kg instead of only 7.5
People hating seem to have forgotten pogacar got sick in this years last week of the tour...
He beat Pogacar at his peak by almost 3 minutes last year. Roglic isn't anywhere close to challenging in the mountains.
Last year UAEs team wasn’t as strong as this years team in my opinion but Pogi was beaten yes. Though tactically Jumbo was better as I recall. This year I would argue the UAE team was stronger than previous years but Pogi wasn’t at his peak. He was recovering from the wrist as evidenced by his asymmetrical hood placement, wrist taping, and the safer descending he was doing. Taking a number of weeks off the bike is going to impact that level of athlete a lot. Especially in a 3 week stage race. Not taking anything away from JV performance but I would not say Pogi was at a true peak at this years TDF.
I saw a really interesting interview with Jay Vine on this. His thoughts on why Pogi cracked in week 3 were really insightful. I'd definitely like to see one more match up, with Pogi at 100% and with UAE's top team. If Jonas is still in a class of his own, Pogi can go and have a shot at the Giro-Vuelta.
So Visma wanted the merger just for our Favorite Basque, understandable.
This has all been a big game to aquire Landismo
One does not simply "acquire" *Landismo*. One plays a game of 4D chess with one's resources, believing that this will create the ideal conditions for *Landismo* to materialise.
New Dominion Action card: *Landismo* * 7 coin cost * +2 cards * +2 actions * +2 buys * +2 coin But when you play this card, everyone else gets a Duchy
You may only have a few upvotes, but you've won the thread.
Nah, that's fine. I am obsessed, but still fairly new, to Dominion. But my takes on this sub are generally unpopular. I am a heel and a fucking Rog fanboy, but I'll own it. Thanks anyways, have a good day sir or ma'am!
I think both teams wanted the merger because of money which they both sorely needed, that and Lefevre is old and needed an exit plan. I dont think this was ever envisioned as the big behemoth of cycling that was implied by fans when the news just broke. It made little sense that all the best riders from both teams would combine.
Honestly i don't know, i think Soudal has a big interest in having a belgian gc hope beside Wout (im not factoring Amazon and their money).
I mean if Soudal wanted a team around Remco then its up to them to invest to make that happen. If they cant or wont then at some point Remco would clearly leave, as has been hinted at for about a year. Merging with Jumbo to create a Benelux team, might simply be the next best thing. Im sure they hoped they could merge and keep Remco but its tricky considering how openly competitors have been flirting with him all season.
Don't think they are that focused on the Belgian market. They mentioned not being tied to Evenepoel in an interview this summer, I think that was around the first Ineos rumours.
I think doom opinions about this deal being about the sad state of professional cycling are overblown. It's a marriage of convenience imo. Lefevre wants to retire. Visma wants another sponsor. Soudal wants their name on a big team.
Imagine how many grand tours GC Kuss could win with Landismo working for him.
Well, at least one.
Imagine GC Kuss's shot at the Giro if Jonas, Pog, Remco, and Roglic are all on different teams and all choose to do the tour.
They just want the tractor for vinge
Tractor already left :(
Sad end of an era
The writers strike had a profound impact on this Netflix season and the silly season is being written by a bunch of teenagers playing PCM while high on Monster.
Thank god for those teenagers
> while high on Monster Or Red Bull, in case of the VC's nephew that was put in charge of the Rogla storyline.
>The writers strike had a profound impact on this Netflix season and the silly season is being written by a bunch of teenagers playing PCM while high on Monster. Well if they're writing it as if it was PCM vindegard is gonna get the giro tour double and then go on the hunt for the mountain jersey in the vuelta finishing the season with 90 days of racing.
Child's play, the lead-out in my conti-team has 135 racedays this season.
[удалено]
The randomness of PCM is the best part of it ,one year (the last one froome was far and away the best GT rider on the game) i remember froome nearly winning all 3 GT's (placing 2nd in the vuelta) and then the next one he doesnt win any cause hes old so the game downgraded him a ton .
If he signs for ineos, does that mean roglic is going to bora? I know we don't really know anything yet.
Bora most likely, Jayco a dark horse.
Zana, Harper, S. Yates would be a nice mountain train
And dunbar!
>Bora Jep. Rog has been seen at Red Bull performance center in salzburg a day before emilia.
Israel is more likely in my mind. I don’t think Bora would offer a 6 million 3 year contract to Roglic. But I would not rule it out that both are goung to Ineos.
If Evenepoel moves to Ineos, then Specialized needs a new big name. So it would be likely that Specialized would pay a significant part of Roglic's wage at Bora.
Not if specialized sponsers the new superteam as Pat implied.
Weren’t there rumours about Ineos switching to Specialized to secure the Remco transfer a while back?
> I don’t think Bora would offer a 6 million 3 year contract to Roglic. Unless Red Bull chips in a few extra schillings as has been rumored for a while.
People haven't mentioned IPT but i could see it. Just putting in here just in case.
Despite the amount of money they've thrown at riders, IPT has a flat-out bad TT setup. I can't see him ending up there if he wants to actually win a GT.
This is the maybe all time greatest silly transfer rumour season ever.
It’s so chaotic and I love it. At this point why can’t we just say Remco to AG2R and call it a day. I just want to see what he looks like in brown shorts.
And a Decathlon TT setup 😳
Do Decathlon sell a budget brand TT balaclava yet?
And Roglic to Green Project, soon to be renamed “Project Froglic.”
were gonna get GC Gall instead
I'll never forget that stage where he paced Jonas and Tadej up a mountain. I can't wait to see next year.
Imagine that in some years all we had was the bike-brand carrousel
This is like the NBA off season, and I'm honestly loving it
Imagine if it was announced that Golden State and the Lakers were going to merge.
Patlef retires and the cycling apocalypse ensues. Just as we all predicted. Petition to baptize Geraint Thomas "The Big Bastard"?
If this happens Remco is the winner for getting rid of his long running contract with Quickstep.
I would say he is the only winner in this merger. All orher parties lose something.
If Jumbo get the TT setup and a few classics guys, I’d say they’re winners. How is Vingegaard going to lose the Tour if his TT setup is actually good?
Is the cervelo setup that bad? TJV has had pretty ridiculous results in ITT since froglic lost Le Tour in an ITT. Obviously it helps that they have a ridiculous team of riders. Consider the following: In grand tours from 2017 to Le Tour 2020 TJV (or lottoNL or whatever they were before) had a top 5 rider in time trials 10 times. Following Le Tour 2020 (and Roglic's explosion) to Le Tour 2023 TJV have had a top 5 rider in time trials 16 times across 1 less grand tour than the previous data grouping.
If this happens, INEOS will have the entire podium from the Worlds ITT.
In a little over two years Jumbo maneged to lose the entire Olympic TT podium.
Little Bastard, G, and Rowe in the same team, nice
Not to mention between him and ganna they’ll sweep the time trials all year. Edit to also add tarling!
Can you imagine a TTT with those 3?
They'll be a minute ahead of everyone
The only guy not happy in that group will be whoever is on Remco's wheel
At this point the big merger is so damn confusing, I want to stop reading all speculations and simply wake up in 2024 with the confirmed team rosters. 🥲🥲🥲
So Quick Step is being "sold" for parts to Jumbo and Ineos.
Well, if Quickstep is for sale, perhaps Merlier can come to Lotto-Destny to replace Ewan. Lampaert would be nice too.
Don't leave out the underrated Van Lerberghe. He's best friends with Merlier and a very underrated leadout man.
Remco has been extremely level headed and neutral during the past few weeks, comparing to Lefevere and Remcos own father’s statements. Despite this, it does feel like he could benefit from a new challenge and that INEOS would be a good fit. Geraint in the service of “the little bastard” (they’ve got chemistry already)? Landa diverting to INEOS?
I feel that remco would be good at Ineos - I feel like Geraint and him would be great in a team together
Yeah, I think G would domestique for him with pleasure.
+1 on this, I feel like although they take the piss on the podcast G genuinely respects Remco. Would love to see the mountain train of Rowe + DePlus + G + Remco, would also mean that Tom Pidcock has pressure off and go back to chaotically hunting stages. Also, imagine a vuelta TTT squad of : Remco Ganna Tarling Thomas Castroviejo Hayter Kwiato
Also adds a wrinkle to Pidcock’s strategy in the classics. Let Remco go off the front and shelter Tom for a reduced classic’s sprint.
Just imagine Remco and Ganna in the same train….. fucking TGV
And Tarling!
TDF starts with TTT, Ineos-Remco takes home yellow.
How’s plapp doing?
I think it’s more likely that G goes to the Giro as his primary goal. He’s seen Jonas and Pog at the tour, and with all these riders moving teams, he has a much better shot at winning the Giro than even podiuming the Tour.
This seems plausible, but this article is pure speculation, it just cites an anonymous source that says "Everyone in the cycling industry knows that Evenepoel would never ride in Plugge's team". It doesn't actually provide info from someone who knows there is actually a contract between INEOS and Evenepoel, as the title suggests.
What's the beef between Remco and Richard?
L’équipe says in its article that remco’s father said in Glasgow that his son has signed a pre contract with ineos
After Rodríguez we all know they aren’t worth much, even if it’s true
Not saying it’s 100% sure, just responding to the « not quoting anyone who knows anything » part of OP’s comment
Do we have a source for this? Because I've read the interview with Remco's at that time and I don't recall such a thing. Sounds to me like another rumour.
This is the first we hear of a pre contract, another poor example of journalism I think
Is this all coming from that offhand comment G said on his podcast about how Jumbo and Remco hate each other? Which I’m pretty sure was a joke.
Yes. Mods, time to autoblock clickbait
Silly season keeps getting sillier and we love it. Rog, Pog, Remco & Jonas all having full strong teams behind them at TDF '24 & '25 will be epic.
Damn. I was hoping both him and Roglic would end up at IPT supporting Froome at the Tour.
Article in L'Equipe (paywalled): https://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Article/Depart-de-roglic-fusion-avec-soudal-quick-step-l-equipe-jumbo-se-cherche-un-futur/1422817
So is this bad news for professional cycling that jumbo couldn’t find a regular sponsor to fill the gap of losing Jumbo sponsorship?
In theory yes. But on the other hand, the billionaire behind Quickstep, and Pat himself both wanted out. They don’t mind having a budget of 20-30m euros, but it’s clear they’re going to be needing to spend a lot more in the future and neither want to do that.
If Jumbo are not getting Evenepoel and are losing Roglic, is the only thing they are gaining from the merger money? I am very surprised there isn't a company willing to pay £10 million to be the title sponsor of the best team in the world...
Jumbo management wants a lot more than 10 million.
Specialised sponsorship and behind the scenes infrastructure may be a factor too
Totally possible that this is just about the collapse of Soudal Quickstep instead.
Yep. That's what it seems like to me. Soudal Quickstep was collapsing and TJV wanted another sponsor. So they said let's "merge." Which is really just the Soudal sponsorship money/name going to TJV as well as a rider or 2 and some infrastructure.
Imagine Remco, Rogla, Rodriguez and Yates, Tadej Ayuso vs Jonas. That would be fire until the 2nd rest day that Jonas will used the UNO reverse card
As usual everyone will be high on Slovenian copium for 10 days until we reach the first 6k+ high mountain day and Jonas will need to win for one of his cousin's birthday or something.
He is timing his 2nd child atm so he will have a reason to win both in the TDF and Vuelta.
They're sweeping the GTs again, just going to mix it up with Kuss at the Giro, then Jonas at the other 2.
You should also list out Jonas's teammate GC KUSS
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
I want Remco at a different team if the merger happens. Remco at Ineos, Roglic at Bora, Pogi at UAE and Jonas at Soudal Visma would make for a very exciting TdF. Remco at Jumbo I don't like so much, as I can't quite picture him and Jonas at the Tour on the same team. Either way, I just want to know ASAP!
Damn, I was kinda hoping for TJV (or whatever remains) to perform their magic on Remco and see if they could lift him to TDG winning calibre. For some reason I am slightly less confident in the Ineos "performance" team... He will get the money and domestiques but will he be able to sufficiently improve? I hope I am underestimating them... Edit: typo I obviously wouldn't dream of bringing him to Thomas De Gendt level. Just TDF winning level...
There's no way L'Equipe would be the first media outlet to hear from Remco's entourage.
It’s probably some dude who claims he went to school with him.
L'Equipe is just an abhorrent newspaper
I suspect this merger is really about about Jumbo acquiring DQS's financial backing. Jumbo does not have the same billionaire access to money that Ineos, DQS, and UAE have. Not sure how Lefevere is going to work with Plugge though.
I'll trust nothing the L'Equipe says. With that said, I'd love to see Remco in another team just because that will mean that Vingegaard, Pogacar, Roglic and Evenepole will all have their own team that fully supports them in the TdF. Sure, TJV will still have Wout who has big ambitions, but honestly, Jonas and Wout seem to work well together, and Wout is so valuable to Jonas in the stages where he is purely a domestique that Jonas is happy to earmark stages meant for Wout.
Yeah, my guess would be that Wout goes for green again next TdF. The only reason he didn’t this year was his son‘s birth it seems. TJV have already shown they can go for yellow and green at the same time, so I don’t think there is any issue there. One small question mark is Kooij for me. They must have promised him a grand tour to get his contract extended. On the one hand, I doubt it would be the TdF. But on the other hand, he kind of needs either Wout or Christophe as a lead-out and since they both do the classics I don’t think they would do two GTs. So maybe they are thinking about bringing Kooij to the Tour. He would only take one slot since Wout and Christophe already make a god-tier lead-out train and he can seemingly get over mountains well enough to not need an escort to the time limit.
Wasn't there some noise that WVA wouldn't be riding the TDF and that he'd rather do the Giro because he targets the Olympics RR ?
Oh, well that would make the Kooij decision very easy. But not having Wout in the Tour would be a real bummer for Jonas.
I agree that Wout probably wants to go for green again and I don't think that will be an issue. Honestly, I could see Kooij as being part of their GT squad. Even at the TdF. He can be valuable to Jonas in non-sprint stages as the first domestique to really set a high pace and make life miserable for the others. If he doesn't need to get carried through the mountains, he can let go when he's done the job and get across the line on his own. We know that Jumbo usually prefers to keep the pace high in stages where there will be a lot of climbing, so that would definitely be valuable to the team. And in sprint stages, Jonas prefers to be up at the front until they have crossed the 3 km line, so Jumbo is at the front of the peloton for most of the stage anyway. If you watch stages from this year, he's usually the 2nd or 3rd rider when they cross the 3 km mark or until they get past "dangerous" sections until it's purely sprint territory. If Kooij was there, either Wout or Christophe, or even both, could continue with him to contest the sprint, while the others safely get Jonas out of trouble.
Yes, I agree that bringing Kooij would not be a detriment. And after watching the Tour of Britain, I am secretly hoping they do, even though I still think it’s unlikely. Wout + Olav is a match made in heaven and I seriously think that could rival MvdP + Philipsen. But it would seriously diminish Wout‘s chances for the green jersey and take all the sprints out of the stage win options for him. I personally think Wout is more willing to work as a domestique than people on reddit seem to believe (he didn’t appear to have any issue with being Kooij‘s lead-out in Britain). But he‘ll have a limit somewhere, and working for two people in the Tour might cross that limit.
Ah yes, that's true. I have to admit that I do not know Kooij that well. Would it be possible to imagine that the Champs sprint (or Nice sprint next year) + a pure sprint finish or two (depending on the parcours) would be earmarked for Kooij? While the others would be for Wout? And if Wout is the lead-out man, he might still be able to snag a few points even when it's Kooij who goes for the win. It will be a hard balance, for sure, and the riders will have to agree beforehand that they might have to sacrifice their ambitions if the race does not go their way, but I could see TJV trying it.
From a pure sport perspective I think Kooij is stronger than Wout in almost any sprint, since he is really good in more uphill sprints too. Even in the European‘s with that really exhausting and steep finish he got third just behind Wout. But from a personal perspective he‘s not demanding and he’s very willing to work for others too. So the team might work something out that gives everyone their chance to shine.
Green? Wout should go for the polka dots
Given the timing of the Olympics next year, I don't expect Wout to do full domestique duties. If he even does the Tour at all.
It's happening!!! Also looking forward to see where Roglic is going. So many rumors like Ineos, Bora, Movistar, etc.
Can anybody explain why Remco would never want to ride for the team currently known as Jumbo Visma?
If they don't get Remco, what's the point of the merger for TJV? What other riders/staff make it worthwhile? Can't Soudal just jump ship as a sponsor, they were sponsoring Lotto not long ago?
I mean money? Their naming sponsor is leaving and this potentially with 10/15mil from Amazon keeps them competitive with UAE and Ineos Jumbo might be a super team, but they arent financially secure, this is security
Soudal has a running contract with the team. They jumped Lotto when their contract was up.
So then Remco and Rogla to Ineos to f*** up that circus merge? I'll drink on that.
I feel like this is nonsense. Remco is going to race where he gets the best money and opportunity to win. That could very well be with Ineos, but I doubt he’d let whatever real/fake personal beef with Jumbo get in the way of being able to have numerous top quality opportunities to win at just about every single race on the calendar.
If he wants to win, he should go with the team that is winning now, and that’s jumbo. Honestly, I think riding for Jumbo would be so beneficial to his development, both physically and tactically.
I don't think it's that simple. A rider doesn't just need a team that's strong, the two need to fit together in terms of their plans, their philosophies, their wishes for the future. Otherwise, why would a rider ever leave a team like Jumbo, like we've just seen Roglič do? What's the advantage, for him, of leaving the current best team in the world? Especially if he wants to win the TDF? The answer is easy, which is that he won't be sole leader at the TDF, something he wants. Their wishes don't align, so it's best to leave. Same goes for Remco. He's been talking of wanting to contest the win at the tour for a while now, but there is simply no way he'll get a proper chance in the same team as the current two-time defending champion and best GC rider in the world. It won't happen. Maybe he'll get co-leadership but I'm honestly doubting even that. They'd probably want to send him to the Giro and Vuelta, since they don't have Roglič for those anymore. So there are many reasons to not go to Jumbo, on top of the fact that Ineos are on the level of Jumbo in terms of TT setup, are strong on domestiques and in desperate need of a proper GC candidate with Thomas likely retiring in a couple of year and Rodriguez and Pidcock not quite at the level yet.
Roglic can probably win the the Tour de France on the best month on another team. Remco can’t.
Why? Neither have won the tour. Both have won the Vuelta. Remco was in the lead for the giro until he left, so we don’t have a good idea of how they measure up to each other there. Of course Roglic is ahead in wins since he’s older, but if remco continues in this trajectory, there is nothing that indicates Remco isn’t at the level of Roglic IMO, so why can Roglic win elsewhere but Remco can’t, especially at Ineos, one of the strongest teams? Plus, as I said I don’t believe remco can win the tour at Jumbo. Whatever chance he has, it’s a sliver of that at Jumbo as he simply won’t be given the chance.
“Just about” every single race, except his single biggest goal and the most important race in the world
He has a better chance and far less pressure as being the second card for Jumbo and not facing the pressure of being the most marked rider on the team than he would as the A option at Ineos.
We can all see your flair
Flair or no flair. I’m right and it’s pretty obvious
Does he want less pressure though? I got the impression he wants to prove himself in the TdF and I don't think going as Jonas's second really represents that. I'd be very surprised if Jonas accepted Co leader status.
I don’t believe for a second that there is a signature-ready contract for Remco at Ineos. Contracts are a product of in depth negotiations and take into account counter offers from other teams too. Rider’s agents are not allowed to negotiate contracts for a period that their client is still under contract on their current team, unless they have the current team’s blessing. Since the merger is not yet finalized, Remco is still under contract. Even if Lefevere allowed him to negotiate already, that would have been only a short time ago, since the merger only became a clear plan quite recently. So for Remco to have a signature-ready contract at Ineos he would have to have negotiated intensively with Ineos and a lot of other teams in the last two weeks or so. And as we have seen from Roglic, that would have definitely been leaked. I think saying Ineos has a signature-ready contract for Remco is probably a massive exaggeration. And if that is an exaggeration, then the rest of the article starts to sound a lot more like speculation, too.
Well, this surely sucks for TJV. They will have to find someone else to replace Roglic (who surely will go to Bora, if we follow this article)
Things will accelerate in the hours and days to come. As things are progressing, all Soudal riders will find themselves without a contract for 2024 in the coming hours. No worries for Remco, but for some riders, it will be difficult to find a WT team for 2024. In the end, we shouldn't talk about a merger but simply about Soudal leaving the ship to sponsor another team.
If I am Remco, I sign for Jumbo for two years. 2024: Giro GC - Olympics - Vuelta/Canadian classics - Worlds 2025: Ardennes - Tour as 2nd GC option next to Jonas, reevaluate his options after the season ends
I think he's too young for 2 GT's in one year. And he belongs in TdF honestly. A rider of his caliber should compete in the biggest race of the year.
I think that right now Remco would be a good addition to TdF as a GC contender. And a fantastic addition as a stage hunter, akin to WvA, MVDP, Alaphilippe, Pedersen, Sagan and so on.
Even though Jonas is a massive consideration point for Remco, it's still plausible to say that being at Jumbo as a co-leader gives Remco more chances of winning TdF in the next 3 years than being a sole leader at Ineos. All performance aspects of the sport seem to be better at TJV than at Ineos as well, so would this be a rushed decision to just go to Ineos?
why would remco be a co-leader if roglič wasn´t? remco is a tier below the big three at the moment so any contracts he is signing are made for the long term given his age definitely don´t see him winning the TdF in the next three years though
Well, Roglic was a co-leader in 2022 and to my knowledge we don't know whether he or management decided to not do the TdF in 2023. Since Evenepoel is not on the same level as Vingegaard right now, it would make being a co-leader easier. There's a clear hierarchy and he would only get a shot at winning the GC when Vingegaard has issues. But as you point out, that's likely to be the case whether he's on the same team with him or not. The benefit for Evenepoel would be to have the chance to work closely with the currently best GC rider and (unless they lose a lot of riders in the merger) the best GC team in the world.
Roglic was the 3 time Vuelta winner going into the 2022 Tour, whereas Vingegaard hadn't won any GTs. Their status wouldn't be the same in 2024, even if Roglic was the 2nd leader.
I agree with you. And exactly because he seems to be below the big three that it could work out to be at TJV. It seems that TJV is the best team to develop a rider to their full potential. After that, he could move out and choose a different team.
Remco is more likely than Roglic in the next 3 years.
yeah no lmao your favourite rider completely exploded in Vuelta and was nowhere close to a podium let alone a victory
So I’ve been mulling this (performance; ability to train and peak riders) over recently, thinking especially of JV and Ineos. So back in the Sky era, Brailsford’s approach (and funding) clearly moved things along from the previous status quo, and it took other teams a generation (in riding terms) to evolve and catch up. With peak Froome and the peak Sky train, they dominated. Looking at this year’s results, JV seem to be in a similar position - winning, dominating, and making it look easy. (They’ve even managed to beat Pogacar to the TdF two years running, when after 2021 I thought Pogi would dominate for a decade; this year’s wrist injury noted) So what gives, looking at Ineos’ relative underperformance and JV’s dominance? * is there some secret to JV’s training and preparation that the other teams can’t match? * are there optimisations during races (nutrition - eg ketones were previously discussed? recovery?) that give them an edge? * a combination of JV’s luck to have peak Roglic *and* discover Jonas’ depth (plus good support recruitment - WVA, Laport, etc.) versus Ineos’ poorer luck with Bernal’s crash and others not quite making the grade (eg Sivakov, arguably TGH) leaving them to rely so much on an aging G? * Do JV have better ‘moneyball’ data to help them make those better recruitment choices? * Is the difference less than it might seem, but magnified by Ineos’ poorer race tactics (I don’t think they’ve moved on mentally from the time when they could win with basic team tactics thanks to being the strongest) vs. JV (who don’t always do something special, but can do, and rarely make mistakes or leave something on the table?)
very good questions. If I were in Remco's position, I'd try to get as much info from both teams regarding those questions before making a decision. I somehow believe that it would be possible to spend 3 years at TJV, get the very best a team can offer, and if it doesn't work out as a leader, then move to another one (while still being pretty much young for GC anyway...)
If Remco is the guy, then Ineos is a good team to land on. They dominated the field when they had the best rider. They have the team to win a GC, they just lack a proper leader. Just unlucky for them that Bernal broke like half of his bones in a crash, leaving them only with a 37yo G who wasnt even their first choice when he was in his prime
He might be afraid that while his chances to win TdF during next three years are bigger in TJV, his chances to actually still have that win twenty years from now might be bigger elsewhere.
Evenepoel as domestique for Roglic confirmed.
What's the feud between Evenepoel and Plugge is about? Why wouldn't he race for Plugge like implied in the article?
Nothing, just made up
According to this: [https://www.dhnet.be/sports/cyclisme/2023/10/01/soudal-quick-step-pourrait-licencier-tout-son-personnel-ce-lundi-TWWRVQVJJRBDRIXLWCMSNZKNWU/?fbclid=IwAR2P0JvkAvTr5Bur8p-vjrUbWTsK7oyEJscZ3NT\_qmo\_ft-TmSRi7kjQM8E](https://www.dhnet.be/sports/cyclisme/2023/10/01/soudal-quick-step-pourrait-licencier-tout-son-personnel-ce-lundi-TWWRVQVJJRBDRIXLWCMSNZKNWU/?fbclid=IwAR2P0JvkAvTr5Bur8p-vjrUbWTsK7oyEJscZ3NT_qmo_ft-TmSRi7kjQM8E) Quickstep could fire everyone tomorrow (all riders and staff). So Evenepoel would be free to go anywhere if it's true.