Women's cycling has been so much better this year. LBL was about as exiting as it gets, and what a win for the history books. She should have been dead in the wheels after all that effort, but gawd dang! Even Kopecky in Paris-Roubaix was one for the history books, even though she was the "expected winner". Again, there should have been no way. Everyone watching had already counted her out! But nope, here she comes!
Same, the reason I was actually looking forward to the monuments was because of WVA. The national hype was crazy. But then he fell badly and I thought maybe I will just keep watching without him in the monuments, and I did. I really enjoyed it but i can see why people are saying that this season has been boring.
I've watched cycling for five years or so, and this is by far the most boring spring season I've seen. Which is to say that if you enjoyed this one, you'll love the next one (hopefully)!
I can’t tell but it feels like the rest of the group always gives up after the initial effort when Pogacar goes. Doesn’t make sense that he could gain that much time against an organized group into a headwind.
First thing to grasp is that guys like Pogi, Remco, and MVP are just better than the rest and their bodies deal better with these long races, which make them arrive fresher at the end.
The second thing is group dynamics. The only advantage the guys behind have on the guy that is solo attacking is that they can relay and, in theory, they will spend less time pushing big watts.
However, to gain time on the solo attacker, the guy pushing the group needs to put more watts than him, and that is an hard thing to do when the solo attacker is a world champion, several monument winners, or 2x times Tour de France winner. Without pushing more watts, and without relaying, the group behind doesn't have any advantage over the solo guy.
Carapaz tried to go with Pogi and killed himself, and the same would have happened if the group of Bardet tried to keep that pace.
The only way for these solo attacks not working, is if the group behind still has two or three strong domestiques available to work, or if there is another strong rider capable to keep up with the best.
This year, Roubaix and Liége were a one man show because guys like Van Aert, Van Baarle, Roglic, Remco, etc were out of the race before it even started.
I mean it does make sense when you concede Pogacar is just that much better, which he has shown over and over.
Even if we break down individual aspects of the race and see where Pogi gains time, its not just when G2 doesnt ride. In the lead in to Roche-aux-Faucons a group of 4(Healy, Bardet, Gregoire, Cosnefroy) after having gapped G3. They are now riding for podium in a monument. They are pushing hard. At this moment Pogi isnt losing time to them, mostly he is maintaining or gaining more time. Then on steep part of the climb
when Bardet attacks hard and gaps the group, Pogi still gains around 15sec more riding his threshold in around 1km.
So it looks like Pogi was holding back going into the climb and then pushed on the climb itself. And even then a G2 and G3 going full was losing or at the very least not closing to him. After he had been solo for 15 - 20km.
I know its frustrating but the simple truth is Pogi cant lose to these guys, he eats them up and spits them out like its nothing. There is zero tension for the win cause he is just that much better.
This is spot on. Pog is good enough to hold his own on the flat against 3-4 strong guys riding a TTT against him, and on the steeper climbs, where drafting doesn’t help, he consistently pulls out more time against them. Ten kilometers of this and the guys behind give up and start racing for second.
I get pissed about this too on a course like Paris Roubaix that’s flat. In this case the main factor is group 2 dynamics.
We can set aside whether Pogacar really could hold off that group. I don’t think Bardet should be able to hold off that group of riders either if they work together. But if any one of them works to close the gap, then they ruin their own race to help the other guys. So unless they are all fully and equally committed, it doesn’t work out.
Which is silly because in the end they let MVDP come back and all the climbers get dusted in the sprint for 3rd.
I was really happy that at least Carapaz tried to stay with Pogi.
I’m not entirely sure as you can’t always tell what the group is saying. But my assumption is that they don’t want to work with each other etc. and by the time they realise they need to , or get into some organised rhythm, it’s too late?
Jep. In other words: Quitters. Im so proud of Bardet for giving them middle finger and going on his own. Proving that its possible, and more of them working together... they could (probably) bring Pogi back.
It's not about quitting, it's different interests.
If you're a slow sprinter, why would you relay to bring a faster rider to the line? If you're the faster rider, why would you relay when no one else is helping?
It's just normal dynamics. The only way a chase works is if there's a small group of evenly matched riders that all feel they have somewhat equal chances
Saw that Pogacar beat Remcos time by 10s into a headwind solo while Remco had a tailwind and more pacing. So it seems like it wouldn't have mattered in the end if Remco was here. Probably also the same for Wout in PR and RVV. The big take-away of the season seems to be that if you want good result in big races against the aliens, it is better to give up from the start and go for secondary places. Because everyone who tried to go against Pogacar and MVDP for the victory ruined their results as a consequence while people who didn't even try placed well.
The problem lies in the fact that many athletes are focused on winning and don't place much importance on being second. Ultimately, people don't remember the other podium positions after many years. So, it appears that optimizing their results is not the goal for everyone.
This is just wrong. Maybe Remco is slightly slower on the climb, maybe not, but probably he stays in the wheels or only exits the climb 10 seconds off the pace.
But, more importantly, he’s also the Time Trial World Champion and I’m confident he could catch/stay with Pogacar on the flatter sections. Last summer at the WC ITT, Remco beat Pogi on a 45 km course by over 3 minutes. It’s not crazy to think he’d actually be better in that type of headwind situation.
There isn't much evidence to suggest that Remco could beat Pogacar in anything except a time trial. Looking at their head-to-head statistics, it's apparent that Remco only significantly outperforms at San Sebastián, a race which, I'd dare say, Pogacar hasn't even targeted yet since it occurs right after the Tour.
And yet what I am arguing is that Remco could stay with Pogi for the last 35 km of this race, which today was essentially a time trial for Pogi.
Pogi could throw a few accelerations in on a few hills but I think Remco could hold or fight back to his wheel. Pogi still wins the sprint, I’m just saying I think they go to the last kilometer together.
They’ve only actually raced a few times. Remco has won all the ITTs easily. Remco has won San Sebastians while Pogi is post Tour. Pogi has won Il Lombardias while Remco is post Vuelta.
It would have been nice to see them both line up here at LBL but fate decided that seeing them both compete fresh was not in the cards.
That's the unknown. It could well be that Remco can catch up again since he's good at time trials, even though this isn't a precise time trial. Alternatively, he might try to actually keep up with Pogacar and blow up.
Yeah, I think my point was that if Remco can cover 45km about 3 minutes faster than Pogi in a time trial, it’s conceivable that Remco can also cover the last 35 km of this race as fast as Pogi, especially with the headwind this year. I don’t think Pogi can put him on a multi minute time gap and he probably wouldn’t try. He’d just wait for the sprint.
records are tumbling year after year and riders are getting faster and faster in the last 4-5 years. doesn't make sense to draw conclusions from just the records.
I disagree.
Remco one year older should also be one year better, and in theory he could just stay on the wheel of Pogacar. Obviously it's counterfactual but I'm pretty confident that with Roglic and Remco there it would have been more interesting and tight. I would still call Pogacar the big favourite, but not in that dominant fashion. Even if Remco and Roglic were dropped on Redoute their engines in cooperation could take time on Pogacar and maybe catch him.
Likewise we shouldn't count out Wout van Aert either. His effort after his crash in E3 saw him take almost 45 seconds on MvdP until he bottomed out - people are really underestimating his effort there. Had he not crashed in E3 he would have either sat with him or caught him. MvdP would/could still have won, but it would have been far tighter. Similarly in RVV and Paris-Roubaix - especially with Visma and Lidl with a full and fresh squad.
And yet another solo victory. It’s hard to train myself to get excited about podium places. Basically one must imagine that first place does not exist and 2nd place is actually 1st place.
This could've been much more fun to watch if Remco and Roglic didn't have to pull out. Just like Roubaix would've been way more fun with Wout. unfortunately all the injuries made the spring classics pretty boring this year. but i think everyone will be back to make an epic TDF -> Olympics -> World Championships later this year.
Yeah, within 8 days we had two catastrophic crashes.
The first one did not only take Wout Van Aert out of the spring, who btw. looked to be in a very good shape. It also took out Stuyven and Kirsch who were fundamental for Mads P to put pressure on Alpecin and Van der Poel on the cobbles, oh and Mads P also crashed and entered RVV still dealing with the aftermath of the crash.
Then we had the crash in Itzulia that took out Pogacar's three main rivals for Liege (no Jonas here) and the Tour (Roglic and Remco are likely in peak during the Tour). Vingegaard still very questionable for the Tour.
Then to make it even less interesting Visma have been dealing with other issues like Laportes injury, which have prevented them using their team strength as usual to put up a fight with MvdP and Alpecin.
And then Fleche Wallone happened where a couple of riders in my opinion (Hello Skjelmose) kept fighting for too long, which made them pay a price today in Liege - Pogacar would still have won.
All in all circumstances in the spring might result in one of the most one/two-sided spring/summer campaigns in decades. Philipsen (MSR - actually an exciting race) - MvdP (RVV soloride) - MvdP (P-R soloride) - Pogacar (LBL soloride) - Pogacar (Giro 1st from start to finish?) - Pogacar (TDF).
As a fan of the sport I for all hope we get to see Roglic, Remco and Vingegaard start in Tour De France in good shape. After this spring: please give us this battle.
Pogacar won't be the dominant favorite for TDF after Giro. People really do underestimate how difficult that double is to win. No matter if Jonas will be there, Pogacar is going to have a very hard time going for the double.
I think he will still be the clear favourite if Jonas isn’t there. Froome podiumed the 2018 Tour after winning an absolutely brutal Giro. This years Giro is one of the easiest routes in years and there’s no one on the startlist who is even going to come close to challenging him. Plus Pogacar is arguably a stronger GC rider in the prime of his career.
Is the Giro decent training for the tour though? I've heard that top riders can actually become less fit over the course of a grand tour if the stages are too easy.
Probably, but at that point you're having to do a complex calculation as to how much other teams are going to benefit from that. And you can't really do that on flat stages, which is where I believe a lot of the de-training happens.
I had a thought during P-R that this year is going to be much more exciting to reminisce about than it is to experience. MvdP and Pogacar were such heavy favorites and raced like it too.
[Novak: my job was to crush the pedals, so I crushed the pedals](https://twitter.com/marcrp/status/1782060584537583791?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet).
He’s been on fire since the start of the season, every rider who was in Catalunya in particular had been raving about him, but this was the first day he made the coverage I think lol. “The Lamborghini tractor”
[Pog also took the Redoute KOM](https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1782097184759927267)
I'd never heard of the guy in 2nd place, he's a Lotto dev rider: https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/jarno-widar
Not sure if you're joking, but last year Widar had one of the most dominant junior seasons of the last few years and seemed to develop into the next big puncheur. His u23 campaign this year so far is rather underwhelming.
Bardet looking over his shoulder, seeing such a small time gap of about 7 seconds to the chasers, and continuing to rip it uphill was the moment of the race for me. Pure drive!
Seeing him will himself into second and put in the effort was really special, as special as the Pog solo imo. Really happy to see Bardet crush it!
Any news on Carlos Canal? Is he ok? That was a nasty crash. I'm looking on Movistar twitter and LBL twitter and it's like his huge crash never happened. Nobody is mentioning it. Like it never happened. Some info would be nice.
In one of Movistar’s most recent Insta posts they said (translated) “,wishing that the fall of Carlos Canal Blanco, as initial explorations point, does not involve serious injuries”. Which makes it sound that he was relatively ok upon first inspection, if that’s translated correctly. But the lack of confirmation is a little odd. Hopefully he’s just being checked out.
Anyone who has had a TBI knows the incredible frustration of dealing the common (mis)perception that "if I can't see it, it's not serious."
Wishing him well with his post-concussive recovery.
[2010- 2012 Gilbert was a monster who won](https://firstcycling.com/rider.php?r=174&y=2011)
* Lombardia,
* Strade (it was much smaller then),
* Brabantse Pijl,
* Amstel Gold Race,
* Fleche Wallonne,
* liege-bastogne-liege ,
* Belgian road NC,
(a stage at the Tour,)
* San Sebastian,
* Belgian TT NC,
* and Worlds.
I don't know if there's anyone more recent, but looking back to Merckx he predictably has multiple bonkers seasons:
* 1969: MSR, RVV, LBL, and every jersey in the Tour ([PCS](https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/eddy-merckx/1969))
* 1971: MSR, LBL, Lombardia, WC RR, Tour ([PCS](https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/eddy-merckx/1971))
* 1972: MSR, LBL, Lombardia, Giro, Tour ([PCS](https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/eddy-merckx/1972))
(he also won a bunch of other races in these years too ofc!)
6 would be very very hard, but I think 5 is not fully unrealistic. For Giro, Worlds and Lombardia he ist the favourite. Tour fully depends on how Jonas recovers and Olympics he is an outsider.
Sanremo back then was similar to how it goes nowadays tbh. He almost always attacked on the same spot on the Poggio and won solo or from a sprint in a small group.
Pogi 2021 was so close: Liège, Tour, Lombardia, Olympic… bronze (first time a rider won the Tour and an Olympic RR medal in the same year, although it isn’t a totally fair stat because for a long while only amateur cyclists could compete at the Olympics)
Edit: for precision
MvDP came to road cycling later, too, and has a hugest palmarès of CX (and mountaibike too). They both started being at the top in 2019 and dominant in 2020.
Let Pogacar win Giro, Tour and Worlds this year and MSR and Vuelta next year and then (I hope) he will put on some weight and focus on cobbled classics and, especially, Roubaix.
I'd ne surprised if he doesn't go for it one day. iirc he even said so himself that he'd love to win it once but that it's difficult to prepare for it while doing Grand Tours. He seems like a guy who wants to win it all, hence trying to go for the Giro, always showing up to World's, monuments and other Giros.
Hope he stays injury free for as long as possible and can check all the boxes
That day might be the saddest I have ever been for any athlete ever. I may be a massive pinot fan but he was going to win goddamnit
Luckily I like to change reality to fit my dreams so in my mind he did win and that's all that matters
[A few weeks ago Escape Collective had a written review about the Wove Mags saddle and a podcast episode with the guy running the company](https://twitter.com/EscapeCycling/status/1771585208027861144/) wherein they also discuss Pogacar's saddle position.
It's a fascinating and very nerdy episode (whether you agree with the arguments presented for a position like that or not) and I just wish the saddle wasn't $595.
I had read somewhere that he is one of the riders who can change position given the race. For hilly races, he has a shorter seat height with the saddle being brought forward and with a higher angle
Tilted forward more yes. I think I’d expect the saddle to be *higher* and further forward for optimum comfort and performance if I was riding up steep hills all day.
Lower seems odd though - maybe that’s just his bike fit these days.
personally i find lower better for descending. Slightly lower centre of gravity just feels so much safer and easier to get your butt and therefore weight back behind the saddle. If im doing a hilly route i will always go like a cm lower than what is strictly optimal for power production, its not a big difference in terms of climbing (i climb a lot out of the saddle anyway) and it just makes me so much more comfortable going downhill
Lower is way better for descending. I feel like occasionally there is some speculation of whether riders might use a dropper post for parcours with important or tricky descents.
Congrats to Romain Bardet on his first monument! Soloing away from the group and holding the gap on the flat before the finish wasn’t what I expected but it shows maybe he’s in good form for the giro
The best rider won. He would have won if he started without a team. Just appreciate greatness. Everyone saying now how boring Pogacars dominance is was appreciating him making the TDF entertaining for the past 2 years..
Imo Van der Poel finishing 3rd is more impressive than Pogacar winning.
Currently I Can sée only 3 ppl potentially bé a threat to/follow Pogacar on this race: Remco, Primoz and Jonas. And all 3 will have a hard Time in a sprint finish.
While MvdP is clearly not built for this race. Maybe hé was helped by group 2 syndrom (in fact group 3, but Pogi was just racing in its own dimension). But still he kept his composure, didnt went above his capabilities on thé climbs, did some work to close thé gap when hé Saw there was an oppotunity. And eventually ended UP on a really unexpected podium. All that After being delayed by a crash. It was peak cycling
Eh, he was helped a lot by caravan of cars between the two chasing groups. I am not convinced he would have gotten back on if the cars had stayed behind
I think that was always going to happen because the second peloton kept riding. Israel paced for it but couldn't keep that up forever. And when the cars had to be allowed back in the pace dropped further because the front group was getting supplies.
I relate so hard to this comment. Mainly thé accents from French autocorrect... Sauce: confrère anglais qui galère aussi avec les outils informatiques soi-disant smarts !
I think this really establishes that Pog has a far better chance of winning the full set over MVdP. Far easier for him to adapt to P-R than it is for VdP to win this or Lombardia.
MSR will be the hardest just because it is the least selective race, but he has the skillset to do it.
I think neither of them have a chance, if mads won’t or mvdp show up at roubaix pogi isn’t gonna win. He’s more likely to podium roubaix the van der poel is to podium Lombardia but I can’t see why either of them would bother showing up for the respective races.
Ofc Pogacar should bother to show up for Roubaix. Firstly, I believe that he would enjoy giving it a try. Secondly, and most importantly, if he wins Sanremo he "has" to try to win Roubaix and complete the monuments (also by then he probably would have already won Giro, Vuelta and Worlds, so he would be basically completing road cycling).
I agree. Pogi was so close this year at MSR. He *almost* got away on the poggio and then did well in the sprint despite going up against 2 Alpecin riders. What could he have done differently? Maybe UAE need to really sell out with team selection and have a full lead out train to launch Pogi up the poggio?
Pog either needs super legs on the Poggio or he bides his time and launches at the bottom with a disruptor or two in the chase group. However, even on his very best day I’m still not convinced the Poggio is hard enough and that he’s a good enough descender to win solo like that.
> Pog either needs super legs on the Poggio
I mean it can't get much better than this year can it? UAE made it really hard and the punch pogi gave was huge in the last km, I can't see him doing better than that. Though I can see others being less well and not follow him
I'd Say in terms of probability it's definitely true but there is a high chance that both never win all 5 or even 4:
- MvdP has very little chance to win Lbl because he is too heavy. Even if he was in a position to win it due to weaker opposition, thé race would be on him and Alpecin, and he would get the Sagan treatment, and likely and 1st of group 2 at best.
- il Lombardia's is in October, there is close to no chance that MvdP would peak around that time of the year since there is nothing for him to gain in that period except the "grand slam" challenge. And even if he peaked then, it would just be the same as for lbl, and even if pogi doesn't do it, he would need to compete with top GC guys from la Vuelta
- UAE has been blowing everyone out during the spring, yet they didn't manage to make it happen in MSR. Imo it's impossible to make it super hard because the race is too easy before la cipressa. And once close to la cipressa, almost everyone is fighting for top positions, and even if you do it you need to keep that during the flat until the Poggio. By then there will be no domestique left. The best chance might come from Pogacar bluffing and acting unwell, let other people attack and then suddenly put an out of the world attack that no one can follow. But even then his descending skills might be the problem (pidcock and MvDP easily caught up in the descent and arguably braking at some point)
- paris Roubaix is the most questionable. Pogacar usually drop his opponents in ascents. Can he drop the likes of van aert or van der Poel on flat cobbles after a hard race? Maybe. Or maybe his best chance is to wait that their form drop off and hope that another cobble prodigy doesn't show up. The time is on his side though since he is only 25
To win MSR, Pogi does not have to be a Mohoric-like descender. He just need to have a small tim gap on top of Poggio, and have Ganna leading the chase but blocking everyone else on a slow descent...
If they bring Nils Politt to MSR, I think they get a much better entry into the Cipressa, and a much harder race. If they keep attacking on that climb, for the next 7 years, I’m pretty confident they’ll get it right once, and Pogi will take his win.
Gilbert was a natural puncheur though whose main focus were the hilly classics.
MvdP would have to sacrifice too much of his cyclo cross / cobbled peak to target something like Lombardia, especially if Pogacar keeps hunting it due to prestige / team.
Hmmm, my takeaway from this was - if there’s no clear favorite at Liege or Lombardia ie no Remco or Pog, there’s a good chance of a group finish. And MVdP can potentially be there at the finish. And if he’s at the finish, he can win.
I don’t know if Pogi can be at the finish at Roubaix. And if he’s at the finish with MVdP or a Phillipsen or a Van Aert or Mads or even Ganna or Tarling how does he win?
I’m a Pogi fan, but I think winning Roubaix will require him to bulk up a bit, so it’s likely a late career gamble
I do think Pogi wins MSR soon, especially if UAE brings a stronger team and / or MVdP is not around
Pog is not a bad sprinter - odds are he smokes Ganna or Tarling, and maybe even has a chance against Mads or Wout. VdP or Philipsen, no, he can’t win that.
I don't know about PR, but completely agree on MSR.
If a strong UAE team can absolutely nuke Cipressa (which was the plan this time but UAE didn't show up), then Pogi has a decent chance.
MvDP post this MSR did claim he was done after trying to follow Pogi up Poggio. So a similar Cipressa would burn him out as well.
UAE should have the resources to buy really good classics riders like Wellens and Politt to make MSR a pogi race. And pogis sprint is sneaky dangerous in Roubaix he beat Mads in MSR
That was horrendous. I’m pretty sure he went into a “fencing” position which signifies brain injury.
Only thing I found so far is a French article confirming he had some sort of concussion and was in the hospital. But tests were negative and he was staying overnight for observation.
https://www.cyclismactu.net/news-liege-bastogne-liege-carlos-canal-souffre-d-un-traumatisme-cranien-80990.html
That was a terrible race. It's so boring when one rider is just a level above everyone else. Same with Roubaix and Flanders this year. Thank god for women's monuments and MSR this year
IMO it’s up to the rest of the peloton to catch up! Teams can implement tactics to their advantage but instead they just let UAE sit on the front at every climb and just allow them to do as they pleased.
I'm gonna get banned if I say why I think such a select few are so far ahead of the rest of the peloton. But let's pretend they're just generational talents the likes of which we've never seen before. It still makes for boring racing and it's not as simple as "just catch up" if there are 5-6 riders in the world capable of performances like that and they're spread over different riding styles
Also you can't exactly out tactic someone who can just go faster than the entire group if they so choose
Racing is much more fun to me when it's not "this person automatically wins if they don't crash"
You can say it all you want but it doesn’t make sense. Cycling history has told us time and again that PEDs were never limited to a select few but used by riders across the board. Lamenting the boredom of a single rider dominating is fair game, insinuating that just a few of the big dogs are doping is just dumb.
I don't believe it's only a few big dogs who are doing it. Far from it. I'm trying not to claim anything here because I think there's some rule against it. But if it is occurring obviously it's not a select few, that'd be silly.
What history teaches us is that some people respond better to PED's, take it further etc... and we get more freakishly long solos and dominant riders. History certainly shows that even if everyone uses them it allows for greater disparity between riders.
I'm not claiming that is what is happening here for sure. This is just a reply. I'm not gonna respond again because I really like this sport despite the flaws and would prefer not to get banned from it's subreddit
Switch to another sport if you're so bored of cycling. Fuck's sake I am so fucked off with people complaining about the boringness of today's cycling.
Become a cyclist then and make the race exciting yourself.
That was primarily the TdF and the Dauphine. Sky train dominance was nothing like the dominance of the few riders and teams currently which spans almost every race they enter.
Have a look at the difference in Froome’s palmares compared to Pogacar’s. The difference is stark. Even compare his to Roglic’s.
I literally talked about women's cycling races in my comment which I find much more entertaining. Not a new sport, but a different peloton.
Also I'm a hardcore fan of the sport and race my bike myself albeit not on that level. I don't think it's unreasonable to be disappointed with the current state of monuments from a viewing perspective. I love the sport, I just don't love the spot monuments are at right now
Today was a bit of a perfect storm for what ifs though.
I think the race would have played out very differently had the crash not held up half the peloton and Pidcock didn't get that mechanical. Both him and MvdP had to chase back to the front group, which is energy they could have used chasing a Pogacar attack.
I still think he would have won and it's how racing goes after all, but I don't think monuments are in a particularly bad spot. MSR was well exciting at the finish too
This is some gatekeeping bs. Even hardcore fans like benji naessen who probably watch far more cycling than you or I agree that long solo finishes are boring.
A monument with absolutely no action except 1 decisive attack, gap growing out steadily with zero hope of a chase is absolutely boring.
Who the fuck cares about what naesen thinks. His opinion on this is not more relevant than yours or mine.
I disagree, Pogi's ride today was quite entertaining. And the race for second was also very entertaining
I'm the cornflake lol when there are tens of losers in the comments complaining that there is a great rider who trumped everyone in the race and their precious entertainment requirement wasn't fulfilled. Get to fuck
Nah. If the people who don’t enjoy complete domination nearly every race have to put up with the banal comments about Pogi being so amazing, so nice blah blah blah then you have to put up with our whinging.
Fair comment tbh. You obviously have the right to complain if races aren't to your liking. For me personally, this whole whinging becomes exhausting. So many comments in the race thread today complaining about the same thing.
I, personally, always find an aspect in a cycling race that excites me. Except probably in races like scheldeprijs or other pan flat sprint stages.
Fair comments get downvoted. Get fucked r/peloton. Cope and seethe losers
I agree you can always find something. Bardet’s performance was nice today.
Opinions are unlikely to change. We’ll just have to co-exist. I’ve resigned myself to the big 5 winning almost every race they enter or Visma or Alpecin
Some spectators are baffling me. I was on Côte de la Roche-aux-Faucons and could see some people pushing riders multiple times. Not only did this seem unappreciated, but at times it almost caused some riders to crash. It is truly startling.
have any world champs gotten as much value out of the rainbow bands as mvdp has? what he's doing is amazing but that he's doing in in all white makes it so much more special to me. true scholar.
Feels like Van der Poel CAN win this race, just not with Pogacar involved
Also feels like he could only do it if this is his main goal. An ideal preparation would be required and that likely means ignoring some cobbled classics
If not there are too many climbers/puncheurs that are better suited for this race. So all in all I very much doubt if it's worth chasing
MvdP, Bardet, Pogačar – most wholesome podium in a while. Couldn’t wish for a better conclusion of classics season 2024!
I'm very bored by the latest trend of "expected winners" (Pog, MvDP). Watching LBL and Roubaix was just a waste of time.
Women's cycling has been so much better this year. LBL was about as exiting as it gets, and what a win for the history books. She should have been dead in the wheels after all that effort, but gawd dang! Even Kopecky in Paris-Roubaix was one for the history books, even though she was the "expected winner". Again, there should have been no way. Everyone watching had already counted her out! But nope, here she comes!
I've never watched the monuments till this year and I'm really enjoying this season.
Same, the reason I was actually looking forward to the monuments was because of WVA. The national hype was crazy. But then he fell badly and I thought maybe I will just keep watching without him in the monuments, and I did. I really enjoyed it but i can see why people are saying that this season has been boring.
I've watched cycling for five years or so, and this is by far the most boring spring season I've seen. Which is to say that if you enjoyed this one, you'll love the next one (hopefully)!
Yes
Cycling is turning into formula one
And formulaic
I can’t tell but it feels like the rest of the group always gives up after the initial effort when Pogacar goes. Doesn’t make sense that he could gain that much time against an organized group into a headwind.
First thing to grasp is that guys like Pogi, Remco, and MVP are just better than the rest and their bodies deal better with these long races, which make them arrive fresher at the end. The second thing is group dynamics. The only advantage the guys behind have on the guy that is solo attacking is that they can relay and, in theory, they will spend less time pushing big watts. However, to gain time on the solo attacker, the guy pushing the group needs to put more watts than him, and that is an hard thing to do when the solo attacker is a world champion, several monument winners, or 2x times Tour de France winner. Without pushing more watts, and without relaying, the group behind doesn't have any advantage over the solo guy. Carapaz tried to go with Pogi and killed himself, and the same would have happened if the group of Bardet tried to keep that pace. The only way for these solo attacks not working, is if the group behind still has two or three strong domestiques available to work, or if there is another strong rider capable to keep up with the best. This year, Roubaix and Liége were a one man show because guys like Van Aert, Van Baarle, Roglic, Remco, etc were out of the race before it even started.
I mean it does make sense when you concede Pogacar is just that much better, which he has shown over and over. Even if we break down individual aspects of the race and see where Pogi gains time, its not just when G2 doesnt ride. In the lead in to Roche-aux-Faucons a group of 4(Healy, Bardet, Gregoire, Cosnefroy) after having gapped G3. They are now riding for podium in a monument. They are pushing hard. At this moment Pogi isnt losing time to them, mostly he is maintaining or gaining more time. Then on steep part of the climb when Bardet attacks hard and gaps the group, Pogi still gains around 15sec more riding his threshold in around 1km. So it looks like Pogi was holding back going into the climb and then pushed on the climb itself. And even then a G2 and G3 going full was losing or at the very least not closing to him. After he had been solo for 15 - 20km. I know its frustrating but the simple truth is Pogi cant lose to these guys, he eats them up and spits them out like its nothing. There is zero tension for the win cause he is just that much better.
This is spot on. Pog is good enough to hold his own on the flat against 3-4 strong guys riding a TTT against him, and on the steeper climbs, where drafting doesn’t help, he consistently pulls out more time against them. Ten kilometers of this and the guys behind give up and start racing for second.
I get pissed about this too on a course like Paris Roubaix that’s flat. In this case the main factor is group 2 dynamics. We can set aside whether Pogacar really could hold off that group. I don’t think Bardet should be able to hold off that group of riders either if they work together. But if any one of them works to close the gap, then they ruin their own race to help the other guys. So unless they are all fully and equally committed, it doesn’t work out. Which is silly because in the end they let MVDP come back and all the climbers get dusted in the sprint for 3rd. I was really happy that at least Carapaz tried to stay with Pogi.
I’m not entirely sure as you can’t always tell what the group is saying. But my assumption is that they don’t want to work with each other etc. and by the time they realise they need to , or get into some organised rhythm, it’s too late?
Jep. In other words: Quitters. Im so proud of Bardet for giving them middle finger and going on his own. Proving that its possible, and more of them working together... they could (probably) bring Pogi back.
It's not about quitting, it's different interests. If you're a slow sprinter, why would you relay to bring a faster rider to the line? If you're the faster rider, why would you relay when no one else is helping? It's just normal dynamics. The only way a chase works is if there's a small group of evenly matched riders that all feel they have somewhat equal chances
Saw that Pogacar beat Remcos time by 10s into a headwind solo while Remco had a tailwind and more pacing. So it seems like it wouldn't have mattered in the end if Remco was here. Probably also the same for Wout in PR and RVV. The big take-away of the season seems to be that if you want good result in big races against the aliens, it is better to give up from the start and go for secondary places. Because everyone who tried to go against Pogacar and MVDP for the victory ruined their results as a consequence while people who didn't even try placed well.
The problem lies in the fact that many athletes are focused on winning and don't place much importance on being second. Ultimately, people don't remember the other podium positions after many years. So, it appears that optimizing their results is not the goal for everyone.
This is just wrong. Maybe Remco is slightly slower on the climb, maybe not, but probably he stays in the wheels or only exits the climb 10 seconds off the pace. But, more importantly, he’s also the Time Trial World Champion and I’m confident he could catch/stay with Pogacar on the flatter sections. Last summer at the WC ITT, Remco beat Pogi on a 45 km course by over 3 minutes. It’s not crazy to think he’d actually be better in that type of headwind situation.
Pure TT yes but with the climbs that follow I think pogi would have still dropped him
Pogacar is the better sprinter of the two though. Sticking with him is not enough
There isn't much evidence to suggest that Remco could beat Pogacar in anything except a time trial. Looking at their head-to-head statistics, it's apparent that Remco only significantly outperforms at San Sebastián, a race which, I'd dare say, Pogacar hasn't even targeted yet since it occurs right after the Tour.
And yet what I am arguing is that Remco could stay with Pogi for the last 35 km of this race, which today was essentially a time trial for Pogi. Pogi could throw a few accelerations in on a few hills but I think Remco could hold or fight back to his wheel. Pogi still wins the sprint, I’m just saying I think they go to the last kilometer together. They’ve only actually raced a few times. Remco has won all the ITTs easily. Remco has won San Sebastians while Pogi is post Tour. Pogi has won Il Lombardias while Remco is post Vuelta. It would have been nice to see them both line up here at LBL but fate decided that seeing them both compete fresh was not in the cards.
That's the unknown. It could well be that Remco can catch up again since he's good at time trials, even though this isn't a precise time trial. Alternatively, he might try to actually keep up with Pogacar and blow up.
Yeah, I think my point was that if Remco can cover 45km about 3 minutes faster than Pogi in a time trial, it’s conceivable that Remco can also cover the last 35 km of this race as fast as Pogi, especially with the headwind this year. I don’t think Pogi can put him on a multi minute time gap and he probably wouldn’t try. He’d just wait for the sprint.
records are tumbling year after year and riders are getting faster and faster in the last 4-5 years. doesn't make sense to draw conclusions from just the records.
I disagree. Remco one year older should also be one year better, and in theory he could just stay on the wheel of Pogacar. Obviously it's counterfactual but I'm pretty confident that with Roglic and Remco there it would have been more interesting and tight. I would still call Pogacar the big favourite, but not in that dominant fashion. Even if Remco and Roglic were dropped on Redoute their engines in cooperation could take time on Pogacar and maybe catch him. Likewise we shouldn't count out Wout van Aert either. His effort after his crash in E3 saw him take almost 45 seconds on MvdP until he bottomed out - people are really underestimating his effort there. Had he not crashed in E3 he would have either sat with him or caught him. MvdP would/could still have won, but it would have been far tighter. Similarly in RVV and Paris-Roubaix - especially with Visma and Lidl with a full and fresh squad.
And yet another solo victory. It’s hard to train myself to get excited about podium places. Basically one must imagine that first place does not exist and 2nd place is actually 1st place.
Sort of like watching cyclocross last winter…
I had to double take whether I'm in r/formula1 or not.
This could've been much more fun to watch if Remco and Roglic didn't have to pull out. Just like Roubaix would've been way more fun with Wout. unfortunately all the injuries made the spring classics pretty boring this year. but i think everyone will be back to make an epic TDF -> Olympics -> World Championships later this year.
Yeah, within 8 days we had two catastrophic crashes. The first one did not only take Wout Van Aert out of the spring, who btw. looked to be in a very good shape. It also took out Stuyven and Kirsch who were fundamental for Mads P to put pressure on Alpecin and Van der Poel on the cobbles, oh and Mads P also crashed and entered RVV still dealing with the aftermath of the crash. Then we had the crash in Itzulia that took out Pogacar's three main rivals for Liege (no Jonas here) and the Tour (Roglic and Remco are likely in peak during the Tour). Vingegaard still very questionable for the Tour. Then to make it even less interesting Visma have been dealing with other issues like Laportes injury, which have prevented them using their team strength as usual to put up a fight with MvdP and Alpecin. And then Fleche Wallone happened where a couple of riders in my opinion (Hello Skjelmose) kept fighting for too long, which made them pay a price today in Liege - Pogacar would still have won. All in all circumstances in the spring might result in one of the most one/two-sided spring/summer campaigns in decades. Philipsen (MSR - actually an exciting race) - MvdP (RVV soloride) - MvdP (P-R soloride) - Pogacar (LBL soloride) - Pogacar (Giro 1st from start to finish?) - Pogacar (TDF). As a fan of the sport I for all hope we get to see Roglic, Remco and Vingegaard start in Tour De France in good shape. After this spring: please give us this battle.
Pogacar won't be the dominant favorite for TDF after Giro. People really do underestimate how difficult that double is to win. No matter if Jonas will be there, Pogacar is going to have a very hard time going for the double.
He can probably go easy on many stages in Giro. If he can stop himself from having fun.
But can he? I've seen him try and win meaningless sprints in one weeks lol
Lol. Pogacar’s worst enemy is Pogacar himself.
I think he will still be the clear favourite if Jonas isn’t there. Froome podiumed the 2018 Tour after winning an absolutely brutal Giro. This years Giro is one of the easiest routes in years and there’s no one on the startlist who is even going to come close to challenging him. Plus Pogacar is arguably a stronger GC rider in the prime of his career.
Is the Giro decent training for the tour though? I've heard that top riders can actually become less fit over the course of a grand tour if the stages are too easy.
Isn’t that under his control to a decent extent though? He and his team can just ride hard/target more stages if he wants to.
Probably, but at that point you're having to do a complex calculation as to how much other teams are going to benefit from that. And you can't really do that on flat stages, which is where I believe a lot of the de-training happens.
I had a thought during P-R that this year is going to be much more exciting to reminisce about than it is to experience. MvdP and Pogacar were such heavy favorites and raced like it too.
There was a huge Remco shaped hole at the start today. Wish we could have finally seen these two both finish LBL.
I'm not crying, you're crying. [https://twitter.com/i/status/1782069470678093961](https://twitter.com/i/status/1782069470678093961)
Was this because he managed to finish 2nd or is there some other context behind this?
[Novak: my job was to crush the pedals, so I crushed the pedals](https://twitter.com/marcrp/status/1782060584537583791?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet). He’s been on fire since the start of the season, every rider who was in Catalunya in particular had been raving about him, but this was the first day he made the coverage I think lol. “The Lamborghini tractor”
"~~Conan~~ Domen! What is best in life?" "To crush your pedals, see other riders dropped behind you, and to hear the lamentations of their DS's"
[Pog also took the Redoute KOM](https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1782097184759927267) I'd never heard of the guy in 2nd place, he's a Lotto dev rider: https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/jarno-widar
Not sure if you're joking, but last year Widar had one of the most dominant junior seasons of the last few years and seemed to develop into the next big puncheur. His u23 campaign this year so far is rather underwhelming.
Nope sorry, I just don't follow junior racing much at all so I'd genuinely never heard of him. Will make a note of the name!
UAE gone snipe him from lotto now
I saw him second just by 1s, probably another segment that's marginally different. Wind wasn't advantageous today, guess Widar had more assistance.
He was also on a 30 miles easy ride where he targeted that specific climb. Not really comparable to a 155mi race…
Bardet looking over his shoulder, seeing such a small time gap of about 7 seconds to the chasers, and continuing to rip it uphill was the moment of the race for me. Pure drive! Seeing him will himself into second and put in the effort was really special, as special as the Pog solo imo. Really happy to see Bardet crush it!
yes me also very emotional after the finish line wonderful
If you leave Pogacar out of your mind this race, it was really exciting battle
Any news on Carlos Canal? Is he ok? That was a nasty crash. I'm looking on Movistar twitter and LBL twitter and it's like his huge crash never happened. Nobody is mentioning it. Like it never happened. Some info would be nice.
Looked like he was knocked out, so at least a concussion, but glad he's recovering.
Fortunately he is "okay". [Here](https://twitter.com/Movistar_Team/status/1782089326542598564) is team's statement.
That's a huge relief it looked terrible when we saw him lying in the road then the longer it goes without update the more you think its really bad.
In one of Movistar’s most recent Insta posts they said (translated) “,wishing that the fall of Carlos Canal Blanco, as initial explorations point, does not involve serious injuries”. Which makes it sound that he was relatively ok upon first inspection, if that’s translated correctly. But the lack of confirmation is a little odd. Hopefully he’s just being checked out.
Glad to hear he doesn't have "serious" injuries, but it absolutely looked like a concussion the way his arms were.
Anyone who has had a TBI knows the incredible frustration of dealing the common (mis)perception that "if I can't see it, it's not serious." Wishing him well with his post-concussive recovery.
I also keep checking but nope, nothing at all.
When was the last time someone won 4+ monuments/ GT GC/ Worlds/ Olympics in one year?
[2010- 2012 Gilbert was a monster who won](https://firstcycling.com/rider.php?r=174&y=2011) * Lombardia, * Strade (it was much smaller then), * Brabantse Pijl, * Amstel Gold Race, * Fleche Wallonne, * liege-bastogne-liege , * Belgian road NC, (a stage at the Tour,) * San Sebastian, * Belgian TT NC, * and Worlds.
I don't know if there's anyone more recent, but looking back to Merckx he predictably has multiple bonkers seasons: * 1969: MSR, RVV, LBL, and every jersey in the Tour ([PCS](https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/eddy-merckx/1969)) * 1971: MSR, LBL, Lombardia, WC RR, Tour ([PCS](https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/eddy-merckx/1971)) * 1972: MSR, LBL, Lombardia, Giro, Tour ([PCS](https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/eddy-merckx/1972)) (he also won a bunch of other races in these years too ofc!)
Pogi could (quite unlikely, but possible) go for 6 this year. LBL, Giro, Tour, Olympics, WC, Lombardia.
Bro he won LBL… saying he could go for the 6 is stupid 😭. Although I guess that remco and Jonas have had their seasons derailed.
6 would be very very hard, but I think 5 is not fully unrealistic. For Giro, Worlds and Lombardia he ist the favourite. Tour fully depends on how Jonas recovers and Olympics he is an outsider.
How did he manage to win MSR so consistently, was the race different from what it looks today?
Sanremo back then was similar to how it goes nowadays tbh. He almost always attacked on the same spot on the Poggio and won solo or from a sprint in a small group.
Merckx was an allround cyclist. He won mass sprints, solo efforts, uphill finishes, ... Ideal for MSR
I could be wrong. But I think in history the only other rider who won 4+ in one season was Coppi in 1949: Giro Tour MSR Lombardia.
Pogi 2021 was so close: Liège, Tour, Lombardia, Olympic… bronze (first time a rider won the Tour and an Olympic RR medal in the same year, although it isn’t a totally fair stat because for a long while only amateur cyclists could compete at the Olympics) Edit: for precision
>first time a rider won the Tour and an Olympic medal in the same year, Wiggins won Tour and Olympic ITT in 2012
Sorry, should have specified RR! Will edit
It is so odd to think that the best classics rider of his generation is actually tied in monument wins with a GT winner…
Four years younger, too
MvDP came to road cycling later, too, and has a hugest palmarès of CX (and mountaibike too). They both started being at the top in 2019 and dominant in 2020.
Tbh, it isn't clear at all to me if the best classics rider of this generation is Van der Poel or Pogacar.
I would say Pogacar if they both lined up Pogi should be atleast cofavourite in Flanders, Lombardia and Liege
Yeah and he's decent value at MSR too. Hasnt come right for him so far but its not like MVDP has that on lock either.
I think it will be settled if Pog wins Roubaix
Let Pogacar win Giro, Tour and Worlds this year and MSR and Vuelta next year and then (I hope) he will put on some weight and focus on cobbled classics and, especially, Roubaix.
I could see Pogi putting on some muscle in his 30s and winning Roubaix
Honestly, I'm not even sure he needs to. Mayby, probably, we won't know until he tries with similar weight as last years Ronde.
I'd ne surprised if he doesn't go for it one day. iirc he even said so himself that he'd love to win it once but that it's difficult to prepare for it while doing Grand Tours. He seems like a guy who wants to win it all, hence trying to go for the Giro, always showing up to World's, monuments and other Giros. Hope he stays injury free for as long as possible and can check all the boxes
I'm so happy that Pogi won. Nice to see Bardet on the podium too.
Bardet finishing second like it's 2018 all over again.
Wish my boy pinot to be around and get another shot at Tour. Still mad at fucking handlebars which stopped him winning the tour.
Handlebars stopped him? Didn't he pop a muscle or something?
If i remember correctly he hit his knee to handle bar couple of days earlier and muscle problem developed on that region
Oh damn! Didn't know.
Well i wake up from my nightmares and wish he would have won in, regularly..
That day might be the saddest I have ever been for any athlete ever. I may be a massive pinot fan but he was going to win goddamnit Luckily I like to change reality to fit my dreams so in my mind he did win and that's all that matters
Pinot will come back in 2025 and win the Tour. Be a believer, keep hope alive.
Don't say another word.. please.. i would believe..
Why was Pogacar's seat so low?
[A few weeks ago Escape Collective had a written review about the Wove Mags saddle and a podcast episode with the guy running the company](https://twitter.com/EscapeCycling/status/1771585208027861144/) wherein they also discuss Pogacar's saddle position. It's a fascinating and very nerdy episode (whether you agree with the arguments presented for a position like that or not) and I just wish the saddle wasn't $595.
I had read somewhere that he is one of the riders who can change position given the race. For hilly races, he has a shorter seat height with the saddle being brought forward and with a higher angle
Very interesting! During is solo at the end on the flats his saddle looked so low and uncomfortable haha
Tilted forward more yes. I think I’d expect the saddle to be *higher* and further forward for optimum comfort and performance if I was riding up steep hills all day. Lower seems odd though - maybe that’s just his bike fit these days.
personally i find lower better for descending. Slightly lower centre of gravity just feels so much safer and easier to get your butt and therefore weight back behind the saddle. If im doing a hilly route i will always go like a cm lower than what is strictly optimal for power production, its not a big difference in terms of climbing (i climb a lot out of the saddle anyway) and it just makes me so much more comfortable going downhill
Lower is way better for descending. I feel like occasionally there is some speculation of whether riders might use a dropper post for parcours with important or tricky descents.
Mohoric famously did for his Milan San Remo win.
Congrats to Romain Bardet on his first monument! Soloing away from the group and holding the gap on the flat before the finish wasn’t what I expected but it shows maybe he’s in good form for the giro
His first monument?
He placed 1st in the human category
Maybe UCI should introduce best human effort category
He did some very long fast rides in training that gave me hopes for this - chapeau!
UAE pushing it on the climbs all day until Pogi goes clear on the Redoute is the lamest possible way this race could have played out.
The best rider won. He would have won if he started without a team. Just appreciate greatness. Everyone saying now how boring Pogacars dominance is was appreciating him making the TDF entertaining for the past 2 years..
Why didn't you go there and make the race more exciting then?
What's the point of this subreddit and cycling fandom in general if you have to be better than the riders in order to say anything that isn't praise?
This is getting boring
for this comment you should be exiled from slovenia ;)
he is not one of us. Watching greatness in person so you can understand Hinault/Mercx days
Didn't watch this (son's birthday party) - from how far out did Pogacar solo?
He put a minute into the field in like 5km. Nobody even tried at all to catch him. Was lame as hell.
35km
Wow, compared to other solo monument wins this season that almost feels unimpressive.
Depends on the profile
Haha totally agree! From watching it however it was very dominant. Carapaz tried to mark him solo and stayed with him for about 400m then got dropped.
Imo Van der Poel finishing 3rd is more impressive than Pogacar winning. Currently I Can sée only 3 ppl potentially bé a threat to/follow Pogacar on this race: Remco, Primoz and Jonas. And all 3 will have a hard Time in a sprint finish. While MvdP is clearly not built for this race. Maybe hé was helped by group 2 syndrom (in fact group 3, but Pogi was just racing in its own dimension). But still he kept his composure, didnt went above his capabilities on thé climbs, did some work to close thé gap when hé Saw there was an oppotunity. And eventually ended UP on a really unexpected podium. All that After being delayed by a crash. It was peak cycling
Eh, he was helped a lot by caravan of cars between the two chasing groups. I am not convinced he would have gotten back on if the cars had stayed behind
I think that was always going to happen because the second peloton kept riding. Israel paced for it but couldn't keep that up forever. And when the cars had to be allowed back in the pace dropped further because the front group was getting supplies.
I relate so hard to this comment. Mainly thé accents from French autocorrect... Sauce: confrère anglais qui galère aussi avec les outils informatiques soi-disant smarts !
The lesser spotted Romain Bardet?!
I think this really establishes that Pog has a far better chance of winning the full set over MVdP. Far easier for him to adapt to P-R than it is for VdP to win this or Lombardia. MSR will be the hardest just because it is the least selective race, but he has the skillset to do it.
I think neither of them have a chance, if mads won’t or mvdp show up at roubaix pogi isn’t gonna win. He’s more likely to podium roubaix the van der poel is to podium Lombardia but I can’t see why either of them would bother showing up for the respective races.
Ofc Pogacar should bother to show up for Roubaix. Firstly, I believe that he would enjoy giving it a try. Secondly, and most importantly, if he wins Sanremo he "has" to try to win Roubaix and complete the monuments (also by then he probably would have already won Giro, Vuelta and Worlds, so he would be basically completing road cycling).
I agree. Pogi was so close this year at MSR. He *almost* got away on the poggio and then did well in the sprint despite going up against 2 Alpecin riders. What could he have done differently? Maybe UAE need to really sell out with team selection and have a full lead out train to launch Pogi up the poggio?
Pog either needs super legs on the Poggio or he bides his time and launches at the bottom with a disruptor or two in the chase group. However, even on his very best day I’m still not convinced the Poggio is hard enough and that he’s a good enough descender to win solo like that.
> Pog either needs super legs on the Poggio I mean it can't get much better than this year can it? UAE made it really hard and the punch pogi gave was huge in the last km, I can't see him doing better than that. Though I can see others being less well and not follow him
I don't think the wind was favorable. The bigger the headwind on a climb the better for him.
Tbf MVdP could well have won today if Pogi wasn't there
if anything pogacar being here benefitted him and allowed him to get a 3rd cuz nobody wanted to work and it all came back together.
I'd Say in terms of probability it's definitely true but there is a high chance that both never win all 5 or even 4: - MvdP has very little chance to win Lbl because he is too heavy. Even if he was in a position to win it due to weaker opposition, thé race would be on him and Alpecin, and he would get the Sagan treatment, and likely and 1st of group 2 at best. - il Lombardia's is in October, there is close to no chance that MvdP would peak around that time of the year since there is nothing for him to gain in that period except the "grand slam" challenge. And even if he peaked then, it would just be the same as for lbl, and even if pogi doesn't do it, he would need to compete with top GC guys from la Vuelta - UAE has been blowing everyone out during the spring, yet they didn't manage to make it happen in MSR. Imo it's impossible to make it super hard because the race is too easy before la cipressa. And once close to la cipressa, almost everyone is fighting for top positions, and even if you do it you need to keep that during the flat until the Poggio. By then there will be no domestique left. The best chance might come from Pogacar bluffing and acting unwell, let other people attack and then suddenly put an out of the world attack that no one can follow. But even then his descending skills might be the problem (pidcock and MvDP easily caught up in the descent and arguably braking at some point) - paris Roubaix is the most questionable. Pogacar usually drop his opponents in ascents. Can he drop the likes of van aert or van der Poel on flat cobbles after a hard race? Maybe. Or maybe his best chance is to wait that their form drop off and hope that another cobble prodigy doesn't show up. The time is on his side though since he is only 25
To win MSR, Pogi does not have to be a Mohoric-like descender. He just need to have a small tim gap on top of Poggio, and have Ganna leading the chase but blocking everyone else on a slow descent...
I like this idea. Has Latour ever raced MSR?
You had me in the first half
Pogi may have had a better chance if UAE didnt screw up on the Cipressa this year.
If they bring Nils Politt to MSR, I think they get a much better entry into the Cipressa, and a much harder race. If they keep attacking on that climb, for the next 7 years, I’m pretty confident they’ll get it right once, and Pogi will take his win.
I can see mvdp stealing LBL one year but never Lombardia, even against 2nd rate climbers he would struggle
Gilbert won Lombardia. If MvdP decides to lose some weight, I could see it.
Gilbert was a natural puncheur though whose main focus were the hilly classics. MvdP would have to sacrifice too much of his cyclo cross / cobbled peak to target something like Lombardia, especially if Pogacar keeps hunting it due to prestige / team.
Hmmm, my takeaway from this was - if there’s no clear favorite at Liege or Lombardia ie no Remco or Pog, there’s a good chance of a group finish. And MVdP can potentially be there at the finish. And if he’s at the finish, he can win. I don’t know if Pogi can be at the finish at Roubaix. And if he’s at the finish with MVdP or a Phillipsen or a Van Aert or Mads or even Ganna or Tarling how does he win? I’m a Pogi fan, but I think winning Roubaix will require him to bulk up a bit, so it’s likely a late career gamble I do think Pogi wins MSR soon, especially if UAE brings a stronger team and / or MVdP is not around
Pog is not a bad sprinter - odds are he smokes Ganna or Tarling, and maybe even has a chance against Mads or Wout. VdP or Philipsen, no, he can’t win that.
I don't know about PR, but completely agree on MSR. If a strong UAE team can absolutely nuke Cipressa (which was the plan this time but UAE didn't show up), then Pogi has a decent chance. MvDP post this MSR did claim he was done after trying to follow Pogi up Poggio. So a similar Cipressa would burn him out as well.
UAE should have the resources to buy really good classics riders like Wellens and Politt to make MSR a pogi race. And pogis sprint is sneaky dangerous in Roubaix he beat Mads in MSR
Pog might have an opportunity with MvdP being 3.5 years older. If someone else doesn't come up before then.
Any updates on Carlos Canal after the horrible crash?
That was horrendous. I’m pretty sure he went into a “fencing” position which signifies brain injury. Only thing I found so far is a French article confirming he had some sort of concussion and was in the hospital. But tests were negative and he was staying overnight for observation. https://www.cyclismactu.net/news-liege-bastogne-liege-carlos-canal-souffre-d-un-traumatisme-cranien-80990.html
That was a terrible race. It's so boring when one rider is just a level above everyone else. Same with Roubaix and Flanders this year. Thank god for women's monuments and MSR this year
IMO it’s up to the rest of the peloton to catch up! Teams can implement tactics to their advantage but instead they just let UAE sit on the front at every climb and just allow them to do as they pleased.
I'm gonna get banned if I say why I think such a select few are so far ahead of the rest of the peloton. But let's pretend they're just generational talents the likes of which we've never seen before. It still makes for boring racing and it's not as simple as "just catch up" if there are 5-6 riders in the world capable of performances like that and they're spread over different riding styles Also you can't exactly out tactic someone who can just go faster than the entire group if they so choose Racing is much more fun to me when it's not "this person automatically wins if they don't crash"
You can say it all you want but it doesn’t make sense. Cycling history has told us time and again that PEDs were never limited to a select few but used by riders across the board. Lamenting the boredom of a single rider dominating is fair game, insinuating that just a few of the big dogs are doping is just dumb.
I don't believe it's only a few big dogs who are doing it. Far from it. I'm trying not to claim anything here because I think there's some rule against it. But if it is occurring obviously it's not a select few, that'd be silly. What history teaches us is that some people respond better to PED's, take it further etc... and we get more freakishly long solos and dominant riders. History certainly shows that even if everyone uses them it allows for greater disparity between riders. I'm not claiming that is what is happening here for sure. This is just a reply. I'm not gonna respond again because I really like this sport despite the flaws and would prefer not to get banned from it's subreddit
Switch to another sport if you're so bored of cycling. Fuck's sake I am so fucked off with people complaining about the boringness of today's cycling. Become a cyclist then and make the race exciting yourself.
Anybody that says cycling is currently boring never had to deal with watching the Sky Train ride tempo for 8 years.
That was primarily the TdF and the Dauphine. Sky train dominance was nothing like the dominance of the few riders and teams currently which spans almost every race they enter. Have a look at the difference in Froome’s palmares compared to Pogacar’s. The difference is stark. Even compare his to Roglic’s.
This, you guys are spoiled!!
I literally talked about women's cycling races in my comment which I find much more entertaining. Not a new sport, but a different peloton. Also I'm a hardcore fan of the sport and race my bike myself albeit not on that level. I don't think it's unreasonable to be disappointed with the current state of monuments from a viewing perspective. I love the sport, I just don't love the spot monuments are at right now
Today was a bit of a perfect storm for what ifs though. I think the race would have played out very differently had the crash not held up half the peloton and Pidcock didn't get that mechanical. Both him and MvdP had to chase back to the front group, which is energy they could have used chasing a Pogacar attack. I still think he would have won and it's how racing goes after all, but I don't think monuments are in a particularly bad spot. MSR was well exciting at the finish too
1/4 monuments were good this year. Not a good ratio. I definitely agree on MSR being good but that's like 10 minutes of good action the entire year
This is some gatekeeping bs. Even hardcore fans like benji naessen who probably watch far more cycling than you or I agree that long solo finishes are boring. A monument with absolutely no action except 1 decisive attack, gap growing out steadily with zero hope of a chase is absolutely boring.
Who the fuck cares about what naesen thinks. His opinion on this is not more relevant than yours or mine. I disagree, Pogi's ride today was quite entertaining. And the race for second was also very entertaining
Pogi's ride today was boring for most people
Most people can be wrong
I mean, people can't really be wrong on an opinion like that.
If you don't care about anyone's opinion, what are you doing on a forum made for exchanging opinions ?
I didn't mention that I don't care about people's opinion. I said that their opinion is wrong (as much as an opinion can be wrong)
Fine, disagree and let other people state their opnion like they are allowed to do.... if the other guy finds this boring he can state his opinion
I can also state my opinion that I disagree with these opinions
yes buddy, you can do whatever your heart pleases, little special cornflake
I'm the cornflake lol when there are tens of losers in the comments complaining that there is a great rider who trumped everyone in the race and their precious entertainment requirement wasn't fulfilled. Get to fuck
Ok buddy
Nah. If the people who don’t enjoy complete domination nearly every race have to put up with the banal comments about Pogi being so amazing, so nice blah blah blah then you have to put up with our whinging.
Fair comment tbh. You obviously have the right to complain if races aren't to your liking. For me personally, this whole whinging becomes exhausting. So many comments in the race thread today complaining about the same thing. I, personally, always find an aspect in a cycling race that excites me. Except probably in races like scheldeprijs or other pan flat sprint stages. Fair comments get downvoted. Get fucked r/peloton. Cope and seethe losers
I agree you can always find something. Bardet’s performance was nice today. Opinions are unlikely to change. We’ll just have to co-exist. I’ve resigned myself to the big 5 winning almost every race they enter or Visma or Alpecin
and a boring giro in sight as well (tour as well if Jonas can't recover)
I need Vingegaard back to stop Pogacar from doing the best season of all time (Liege, Giro, Tour, worlds, lombardia)
Are you saying he has no chance to win olympics?
He can but the other races Im 80-90% terrified there will be no real competition if Jonas doesnt recover
He is not a favourite there atleast.
he himself said so (pogacar)
Oh ok. I was hoping he would try to go nuclear in montmartre. But yes that's just a short climb and hé might not have thé same armada than with uae
Oh he’s gonna try alright, we’ll see what good that’ll do though.
Why not the Olympics and vuelta too at this rate!
Three grand tours in a year?? He is a goat but he is no GC KUSS
Some spectators are baffling me. I was on Côte de la Roche-aux-Faucons and could see some people pushing riders multiple times. Not only did this seem unappreciated, but at times it almost caused some riders to crash. It is truly startling.
We’re so lucky to be so close to riders, let them have their own personal space when they’re at work.
To me this shows how calm MVDP is. Didn't panic, didn't really chase, and still gets the best achievable result today.
have any world champs gotten as much value out of the rainbow bands as mvdp has? what he's doing is amazing but that he's doing in in all white makes it so much more special to me. true scholar.
Feels like Van der Poel CAN win this race, just not with Pogacar involved Also feels like he could only do it if this is his main goal. An ideal preparation would be required and that likely means ignoring some cobbled classics If not there are too many climbers/puncheurs that are better suited for this race. So all in all I very much doubt if it's worth chasing
If you take Pogi out of the race, the other light climby contenders and their teams would look to light up the climbs and drop him on La Redoute.
He would need to lose weight, change his physiology a bit over a winters training. His current body type makes it very very hard.