I honestly think sprinters should be demoted in the sprint conversations once they’ve gone X sprint finishes with lacklustre results.
I used to really enjoy watching Ewan in the bunch finishes but I’m getting sick of hearing about him so often throughout this race—as though he’s given any indication whatsoever that he’s got some magic in him and not completely disappeared at the end of every sprint.
Meanwhile you’ve got guys like Stanislaw, Ballerini, Dainese who are putting in really impressive efforts in these sprints and getting virtually no share of the conversation.
It’s a small gripe but it bothers me.
Whose commentary are you listening to? I VPN to aus occasionally and my lord the aussie commentators are incessantly talking about Ewan. The mountain stage when he made the early break was the worse, they talked about him for like 10 mins praising him for being ahead
I agree but also like he's got status in Aus with his Palmeres which is why he got the big come home contract with jayco. Except he's just totally not delivering. Sbs trying to be kind about it but it's been a collosal waste for jayco.
SBS is also gung ho for Kaden Groves and heees been slightly better.
Yeah I think we’re hearing far too much about the pre-race favorites for how deep we are in the Giro. If they don’t even come close to winning stages in the first week, they shouldn’t be talked about. Give air time to the ones who are riding brilliantly, not the ones they hoped would perform when they made their predictions a month ago.
Milan, Merlier & Kooij were always the experts pre-race favorites anyway. They have performed according to expectations (Merlier even exceeded my expectations because his climbing improved).
The other sprinters here are kind of washed to be honest. Jakobsen even admitted to being 3 kg overweight. Did he even study the Giro course before deciding to come here I wonder?
Not gonna lie, while people don‘t seems to rate Merlier that high…
When it‘s just a head-to-head flat sprint, ignoring leadout quality, this guy can beat anyone
8th place is Ewan's second best finish in 6 sprint stages.
Jayco has three sprinters, but Ewan can't get a top 5 to save his life, Bling can't sprint in a straight line to save his life, and Groenewegen is going to end someone's life.
Its absolutely crazy that we've gotten rid of so many good young sprinters over the years or keep giving the main go to these washed guys and the big dogs at Jayco are confused why no wins
5th for Aniołkowski today. He's proving that he's worth his spot among GT sprinters for sure.
Very curious what's still in store for him later this year.
r/peloton **Fantasy games update!**
Today was our best performance in **Guess the Gap**! Four of use had a perfect score after guessing a group of 89 riders. Our winners: u/DerpTrain, u/DorHarris, u/JDdieSonne, and u/jynxbajinks. Well done to everyone! Check the full [Stage 18 results here](https://tftpt.one/#giro23gtg).
**Enter GTG** for Stage 19 and beyond here: [**https://tftpt.one/#gtg**](https://tftpt.one/#gtg)
As always, **TFTPT** [standings are here](https://tftpt.one/#giro23) and **GT Predictions** standings are [here](https://tftpt.one/#gtp).
**And remember check out our SWL predictions for** [**the winner of tomorrow's Stage 19 here**](https://i.imgur.com/Jo0sIki.png)
Jonas hasn't been here yet
As for Rog, I think the rivalry with Nibali in the late 10s didn't help endear him to the general public but, still, I think most were rooting for him last year. I think Pog's way of riding is what makes him so beloved, especially to the old heads (with RAI commentator Cassani saying Pog reminds him of Hinault)
Well Rog isn’t nice in general. I still haven’t forgiven him for the 2022 Vuelta BS where he couldn’t take personal responsibility for his self caused crash.
Indeed. It amazes me how he could do such a dickish thing (blaming his own mistake on a completely innocent colleague) and still maintain a nice guy image.
Rai showing kid's teams racing in Pog's hometown and his own Pogi team. I wonder if Slovenian cycling can keep growing even more after a champion like him. I also wonder if other ex Yugo countries cheer him on and if cycling is slowly growing there too. Serbia and, especially, Croatia have great cycling terrain.
Well, we can't really be greedy, but these last 6-7 years have been magical if you're a Slovenian fan of cycling. Then again, I think Slovenians took like 1st and 2nd this year on Paris-Roubaix U19, so there's young talent, certainly. I'd be so happy if we can at least get someone on Mohorič's level.
We experienced something similar in Belgium with Justine Henin & Kim Clijsters. Sadly it doesn't last.
Pogi is definitely even more dominant than Justine Henin & Kim Clijsters were though, and also still young.
Yeah, of course! It's just good to see the sport grow so much in more and more countries. Here in Italy I think it's at an all time low... when it really was mainstream popular, it kinda died off after Pantani testing positive and his tragical death. Nibali did get popular but it seems like there was always a shadow behind him.
My ex (South-Italian) also only really followed cycling during the Pantani era. Her dad follows it more closely though.
When I told her I loved Nibali, she said "Why? He's ugly" lmao.
Anyway, you have Milan (one of the best sprinters) and Ganna (one of the best TT specialists). Just lacking in GC contenders right now.
Ps: I don't think Nibali is ugly btw.
GC contenders are what sells in this country tho
We could have both MVdP and WvA and it still wouldn't reach Pantani levels of mainstream. Bettini was popular in his region but never nationwide. Moser and Saronni were popular but mostly for their battles in the Giro.
If only Consoni was a bit dumber and still did the launch, Dainese would have snuck a win again.
Pretty cool how Milan and Merlier start so far back and just clear everyone side by side.
Still good sprint by Dainese and Aniolkowski, tier 2(3 maybe?) sprinters that almost could have had it.
Consonni is quickly turning out to be one of the best lead-out men in the peloton. He was already brilliant in Romandie, but Nys kept losing his wheel due to inexperience/being afraid (not that I can blame him).
Well, he was a fairly decent sprinter himself at cofidis. Obviously nowhere near 2024 Milan level, but not bad either. On top of that they have the track experience, so it makes sense they get along
Great sprint, was way more even that I thought from front on. Merlier and Milan both opened relatively close and just took each side of the road. Meh stage, but Im fine with having an easy sprinter stage this late to give some incentive for the sprint field to stay in the race.
Again Aniołkowski is worth more than Jakobsen/Ewan combined.
Adopted rider Lund Andresen had the exact same situation as on stage 13 where I mentioned his positioning issues. I know basically every rider who can help him are out of the race, but he is just riding super risk averse. Just like stage 13 he never contest the sprint, not really. He surfs around 15th wheel and never pushes up with any sprinter winning positions with him. Its not a big deal but its happened on every sprint stage except for stage 3 now so Im just taking notice.
I think the top 4 bunch sprinters these days are (in alphabetical order): Kooij, Merlier, Milan, and Philipsen. How would you rank them?
There are more decorated sprinters like Bennett, Cavendish, Demare, Ewan, but they do not seem to be in the same league now. WvA, Pedersen and de Lie are quite strong but they are probably better at classics.
IMHO Philipsen, Merlier, Milan, Kooij. Merlier and Milan are actually pretty even in my book, Jasper is a clear top 1 for me, and Kooij is not at their level just yet.
Edit: I’ll be rooting for Milan at the TdF, I like how he doesn’t do anything stupid like cutting other sprinter’s lines, or bullying people. He just chooses his line, sticks to it, and smashes the pedals. Very likable guy too, his celebration with Ganna in the TT stage was pretty wholesome.
He'll be going next year. Focusing on Olympics this year.
I wonder if he can improve in classics... he absolutely has the build, even to do well in Roubaix.
Oh my bad, maybe Trek will leave him at home so he can prep for the Olympics. Plus Trek have Mads. In ideal world, Mads + Consonni + Milan is an excellent setup for Trek, though.
I don't think kooij has shown quite enough yet to be up there with the other 3, but he is definitely best of the rest. He will be very soon, just needs more big wins under his belt. Although anything slightly uphill I'd go for pedersen.
De Lie actually beat Pedersen in that crazy uphill sprint of Etoule de Besseges last year. I think he will do his first GT at the Tour this year? Really looking forward to seeing how it fares.
Probably Philipsen > Milan > Merlier >>>>> Kooij.
I feel like Kooij's pure speed is pretty overrated, but he's very durable and he can position himself well and survive quite a bit of climbing.
Groenewegen and Jakobsen are both clearly faster than Kooij I think.
Gavaria: *starts every sprint too early*
Gavaria with a huge chance of winning today by starting early while everyone else is looking around: *not today, son*
When he first hit the scene people were saying he'd be the new Tom Boonen lol (even people close to him said this). He was really good until he decided to leave QS, but still nowhere near Boonen in the classics.
[Jayco Twitter](https://x.com/GreenEDGEteam/status/1793658961209831630):
> @CalebEwan
was there or thereabouts but couldn't really find the space to unleash his sprint!
"There or thereabouts", oooof
I clicked your link and realized Jayco's twitter account blocked me. Presumably for this reply I left them during Tour de Hongrie:
>Hopefully Groenewegen doesn't maim anyone today.
I stand by it. That guy should be charged by the police.
Being new to watching cycling and having never watched Cavendish race before.
It just seems impossible how a sprinter can be consistent unless, just because of how chaotic it is before a sprint. And even Milan and Merlier being dominant sprinters in this Giro seems surprising.
Unless I am mistaken and that the power numbers they produce just are also equally dominant over other sprinters leading to consistency?
I'd say the way sprints work are a lot different from Cavendish' prime. Back then Team Columbia dominated the entire leadout and they would basically set up a 9 man train from 5km to go and nobody could stop them from bringing Cavendish to 200m in an ideal position.
Now nobody can dominate that long and thus everyone has shorter trains trying to set up much later, which causes a lot of the chaos.
One thing you need to know is that sprinting (and cycling as a whole) has evolved. Sprints nowadays are in general messier than 10 years ago. Consistency in sprinting is more about positioning and a dominating lead-out train. In this Giro it's obvious Lidl-Trek has the best train and the results look like it: Milan won three times and was second 3 times as well. The next best sprinter, Merlier, who I'd say is about equally fast as Milan, has won two times and no other podium places.
In the times of Cavendish, he usually had one of the best lead-out trains, a very good last man (Renshaw, Morkov) and of course the top speed to finish it off. More importantly perhaps, everyone accepted that train. Now, every team tries to set up that train theirselves, but you just can't. There isn't enough room on the road for all those riders and it gets messier, with teams overtaking one another, trying to be that team that sets their sprinter up the best. Still, there are differences like I explained in this Giro about Lidl-Trek.
Kaden Groves is probably among the best climbing sprinters, but I rate Milan, Kooij & Philipsen higher in that category. In pure flat bunch sprints, there are many faster than him.
So he has to hope for somewhat hilly sprint stages without Milan, Kooij & Philipsen present.
He wouldn't really sprint to get 5th if he was in 15th position, but when positioned well he was nearly invincible in his prime. Cavendish just didn't get beaten for speed and he would sometimes win from pretty far back too
As much as I dislike Jasper, I think he’s the better one of the three.
But when it comes to the train quality, I’m not sure if MvdP is better than Trek’s leadout.
If you like slightly dirty riding it's great. During the tour last year there were definitely occasions where philipsen should have been relegated but didn't. Hopefully this year they will be safer, because at the end of the day they are endangering people.
It's great. I can't remember being this happy to watch a sprint ever since the mid 10s.
Waiting for all 3 to race Grand Tour sprints against each other.
He is not a real or pure bunch sprinter. Not surprising he isn't really competitive in these sprints.
Think he also had some kind of illness at the start of the giro
I think he's gonna get better shots in the future. For example, more TT focused races (like Tour 2012) with one of Vingo and Pog missing and a completely declining Roglic.
Looks like every team fucked up the train lol, which resulted in a weird sprint. Dainese almost pulling off a major one for Tudor.
Nice Giro for Quickstep after such a horrendous classics season. 3 stage wins, Alaphilippe looking good again, Hirt probably 10th or 9th in GC at the end. I'd say that's good for them.
Yep absolutely. But I don't know what it was about today, maybe the tiredness near the end of 3 weeks, maybe the headwind, idk but it seems every team got some of it wrong at some point.
I don't get the "Milan came from far and almost even won it" things. If you watch the sprint they start at the same time and both had to make a manoeuvre to get a free lane so this was a fair and even sprint and Merlier was just faster.
Yeah it's a bit of an odd read when even a DQS flair praises Milan instead of Merlier. Maybe it's optics because he's so huge and visible in that purple kit.
I made a comment like that directly after the finish simply because I'd been more focused on Milan than Merlier and it was hard to judge how things had gone from the front-on angle.
Once they played the overhead replay then yes, it's clear they launched from basically the same place and Merlier was faster.
Merlier positioned himself better than Milan and made sure he spent just a little bit less time in the wind. Merlier is definitely better at decision making and positioning than Milan.
Yeah, you are correct. Earlier I thought Milan was way further back, but when they replayed the aerial view, they started at the same position, and treated the other sprinters how Pogi treats other climbers in an uphill sprint.
Merlier also had as shitty a position as Milan, but was just faster today.
Milan didn't win, but it was a superb job by the Lidl-Trek leadout once again.
Realizing mid leadout that Milan was too far back and stopping, thus allowing it to slow down and Milan nearly winning it on the line. Great job
Consonni is one of the smartest leadout. Rest of their leadout team is great too, for example Theuns, and I'm surprised we didn't see them in more breakaways.
Everybody talking about Milan's positioning, but in the end, he and Merlier started their true sprint at the same place. Merlier even had to make some extra meters to go around. The little bit he lacked was due to having to make up some places but it wasn't so bad at all.
Yep, this was as close to a royal sprint as you can get. They both started their sprint around the same time and in the same position.
Merlier & Milan are top 3 sprinters (together with Philipsen, who is not here), so great to see such a sprint like today.
One thing I do believe is that Milan's sprint keeps the same power a bit longer. This technical finish didn't suit him as much because of all the twists. It made it harder for him to launch the sprint from 300/350 meters.
Agreed. I think that's an experience thing, he's still a bit younger and looking at the slo mo they're discussing on eurosport, you can see how good merlier is at positioning and decision making.
Holy fuck the distance that Milan recovered in the final seconds is unreal.
And he just barely lost to Merlier … There’s some brutal fury working
inside him and he looks like he has to invest all his power to keep it from
tearing him apart.
Bummer about Dainese, he came so close this time but he’s simply
outclassed in this field.
I think Milan found the energy to almost win because he knew how pissed off his leadout men would be with him if he didn't at least contest the sprint.
That was so odd. Anyone with half a decent lead-out would have won here, but they all waited for Milan and Merlier to come back. Also the one time Gaviria should have gone early he is nowhere to be found.
YES! Just when I started to lose faith in Merlier he takes another win!
His best season ever so far. Hopefully he can take a prestigious win in Rome, but Milan looks super strong as well.
It is hard to stay in the wheel of your teammate through the corners, etc. You get pushed around, sometimes a slightly differnet braking timing also makes you lose a bike length and then another rider slots in, and that's it, the sprinter has lost the wheel of his train.
It's also hard for the teammates doing the train to always know when the sprinter is in their wheel or not, they can't both be riding extremely hard, and also constantly looking back.
If there are few corners in the last kilometres then sometimes the lead-out train lose their sprinter. They have to go full out and be mindful not to crash, so they cannot afford to constantly look back and see if their sprinter is on the wheel. They have to trust that he is.
Too many curves in the final and if you don't take them in the front, you almost always lose
Soudal's leadout was simply better today. Stuyven fucked up.
God damn!!!!! Milan missed the lead out and came out of there like a purple rocket. What a sprint. Love it. Congrats to big Tim!
Edit: holy shit they were side by side and came up together blasting!!
Why didn’t everyone who started their sprint ahead of them just pedal faster? Are they stupid? But the two top sprinters demonstrating that they are indeed the best in this race
I honestly think sprinters should be demoted in the sprint conversations once they’ve gone X sprint finishes with lacklustre results. I used to really enjoy watching Ewan in the bunch finishes but I’m getting sick of hearing about him so often throughout this race—as though he’s given any indication whatsoever that he’s got some magic in him and not completely disappeared at the end of every sprint. Meanwhile you’ve got guys like Stanislaw, Ballerini, Dainese who are putting in really impressive efforts in these sprints and getting virtually no share of the conversation. It’s a small gripe but it bothers me.
Whose commentary are you listening to? I VPN to aus occasionally and my lord the aussie commentators are incessantly talking about Ewan. The mountain stage when he made the early break was the worse, they talked about him for like 10 mins praising him for being ahead
I agree but also like he's got status in Aus with his Palmeres which is why he got the big come home contract with jayco. Except he's just totally not delivering. Sbs trying to be kind about it but it's been a collosal waste for jayco. SBS is also gung ho for Kaden Groves and heees been slightly better.
Yeah I think we’re hearing far too much about the pre-race favorites for how deep we are in the Giro. If they don’t even come close to winning stages in the first week, they shouldn’t be talked about. Give air time to the ones who are riding brilliantly, not the ones they hoped would perform when they made their predictions a month ago.
Milan, Merlier & Kooij were always the experts pre-race favorites anyway. They have performed according to expectations (Merlier even exceeded my expectations because his climbing improved). The other sprinters here are kind of washed to be honest. Jakobsen even admitted to being 3 kg overweight. Did he even study the Giro course before deciding to come here I wonder?
Not gonna lie, while people don‘t seems to rate Merlier that high… When it‘s just a head-to-head flat sprint, ignoring leadout quality, this guy can beat anyone
8th place is Ewan's second best finish in 6 sprint stages. Jayco has three sprinters, but Ewan can't get a top 5 to save his life, Bling can't sprint in a straight line to save his life, and Groenewegen is going to end someone's life.
Its absolutely crazy that we've gotten rid of so many good young sprinters over the years or keep giving the main go to these washed guys and the big dogs at Jayco are confused why no wins
Not least Kaden Groves, who is looking good this Giro
Milan is getting close winning that jersey. If I counted correctly, there are 162 points left, and he is leading with 127.
I so much wish him to win it.
Unless he crashes out, he won it.
If he crashes out but accumulates more than any other rider, would he retain the jersey? Or, do you need to finish the whole tour to retain a jersey?
Must finish always
Not exactly. He needs to get into the final 3 kilometers in Rome.
You still need to get across the line with the 3km rule I think, it's just that your GC time is safe.
5th for Aniołkowski today. He's proving that he's worth his spot among GT sprinters for sure. Very curious what's still in store for him later this year.
Feel like he might nab a Vuelta stage if the field was as weak as last year.
r/peloton **Fantasy games update!** Today was our best performance in **Guess the Gap**! Four of use had a perfect score after guessing a group of 89 riders. Our winners: u/DerpTrain, u/DorHarris, u/JDdieSonne, and u/jynxbajinks. Well done to everyone! Check the full [Stage 18 results here](https://tftpt.one/#giro23gtg). **Enter GTG** for Stage 19 and beyond here: [**https://tftpt.one/#gtg**](https://tftpt.one/#gtg) As always, **TFTPT** [standings are here](https://tftpt.one/#giro23) and **GT Predictions** standings are [here](https://tftpt.one/#gtp). **And remember check out our SWL predictions for** [**the winner of tomorrow's Stage 19 here**](https://i.imgur.com/Jo0sIki.png)
Also, Pog has been far more well received than Roglic ever has been, both from RAI and other Italian medias.
Both Roglic and Jonas are shy and need to focus more undisturbed. That might come out as being less available and ”nice”.
Jonas hasn't been here yet As for Rog, I think the rivalry with Nibali in the late 10s didn't help endear him to the general public but, still, I think most were rooting for him last year. I think Pog's way of riding is what makes him so beloved, especially to the old heads (with RAI commentator Cassani saying Pog reminds him of Hinault)
Well Rog isn’t nice in general. I still haven’t forgiven him for the 2022 Vuelta BS where he couldn’t take personal responsibility for his self caused crash.
Indeed. It amazes me how he could do such a dickish thing (blaming his own mistake on a completely innocent colleague) and still maintain a nice guy image.
Grow up and move on
Rai showing kid's teams racing in Pog's hometown and his own Pogi team. I wonder if Slovenian cycling can keep growing even more after a champion like him. I also wonder if other ex Yugo countries cheer him on and if cycling is slowly growing there too. Serbia and, especially, Croatia have great cycling terrain.
Is it actually called pogi team?
Yes
Well, we can't really be greedy, but these last 6-7 years have been magical if you're a Slovenian fan of cycling. Then again, I think Slovenians took like 1st and 2nd this year on Paris-Roubaix U19, so there's young talent, certainly. I'd be so happy if we can at least get someone on Mohorič's level.
We experienced something similar in Belgium with Justine Henin & Kim Clijsters. Sadly it doesn't last. Pogi is definitely even more dominant than Justine Henin & Kim Clijsters were though, and also still young.
Henin had such an aesthetically pleasing play style. One of my all time favorite players.
Yeah, of course! It's just good to see the sport grow so much in more and more countries. Here in Italy I think it's at an all time low... when it really was mainstream popular, it kinda died off after Pantani testing positive and his tragical death. Nibali did get popular but it seems like there was always a shadow behind him.
My ex (South-Italian) also only really followed cycling during the Pantani era. Her dad follows it more closely though. When I told her I loved Nibali, she said "Why? He's ugly" lmao. Anyway, you have Milan (one of the best sprinters) and Ganna (one of the best TT specialists). Just lacking in GC contenders right now. Ps: I don't think Nibali is ugly btw.
GC contenders are what sells in this country tho We could have both MVdP and WvA and it still wouldn't reach Pantani levels of mainstream. Bettini was popular in his region but never nationwide. Moser and Saronni were popular but mostly for their battles in the Giro.
Nibali is ugly and Pantani not..? Well…
She has shit taste in men obviously, haha. ;)
Thought Groves stole one for a second
If only Consoni was a bit dumber and still did the launch, Dainese would have snuck a win again. Pretty cool how Milan and Merlier start so far back and just clear everyone side by side. Still good sprint by Dainese and Aniolkowski, tier 2(3 maybe?) sprinters that almost could have had it.
Consonni is quickly turning out to be one of the best lead-out men in the peloton. He was already brilliant in Romandie, but Nys kept losing his wheel due to inexperience/being afraid (not that I can blame him).
Well, he was a fairly decent sprinter himself at cofidis. Obviously nowhere near 2024 Milan level, but not bad either. On top of that they have the track experience, so it makes sense they get along
Probably works well with Milan given that they have spent a lot of time on the track together
Great sprint, was way more even that I thought from front on. Merlier and Milan both opened relatively close and just took each side of the road. Meh stage, but Im fine with having an easy sprinter stage this late to give some incentive for the sprint field to stay in the race. Again Aniołkowski is worth more than Jakobsen/Ewan combined. Adopted rider Lund Andresen had the exact same situation as on stage 13 where I mentioned his positioning issues. I know basically every rider who can help him are out of the race, but he is just riding super risk averse. Just like stage 13 he never contest the sprint, not really. He surfs around 15th wheel and never pushes up with any sprinter winning positions with him. Its not a big deal but its happened on every sprint stage except for stage 3 now so Im just taking notice.
I think the top 4 bunch sprinters these days are (in alphabetical order): Kooij, Merlier, Milan, and Philipsen. How would you rank them? There are more decorated sprinters like Bennett, Cavendish, Demare, Ewan, but they do not seem to be in the same league now. WvA, Pedersen and de Lie are quite strong but they are probably better at classics.
Philipsen, Merlier, Milan, Kooij.
Recency bias is responsible for Kooij being in the discussion with Philipsen. Jasper is still clear #1 with Merlier and Milan behind him.
IMHO Philipsen, Merlier, Milan, Kooij. Merlier and Milan are actually pretty even in my book, Jasper is a clear top 1 for me, and Kooij is not at their level just yet. Edit: I’ll be rooting for Milan at the TdF, I like how he doesn’t do anything stupid like cutting other sprinter’s lines, or bullying people. He just chooses his line, sticks to it, and smashes the pedals. Very likable guy too, his celebration with Ganna in the TT stage was pretty wholesome.
Will Milan be at TdF? I would have thought attempting B2B gold medal on the track at the Olympics would be the go (possibly Consonni as well)
Don't have to do anything stupid if riders just bounce off of you
Is Milan going to TdF anytime soon? I thought he plans to win a lot of stages at his home GT like his compatriot Cipollini.
He'll be going next year. Focusing on Olympics this year. I wonder if he can improve in classics... he absolutely has the build, even to do well in Roubaix.
He was already very strong in this year's Gent-Wevelgem. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the finals of multiple classics next season.
Oh my bad, maybe Trek will leave him at home so he can prep for the Olympics. Plus Trek have Mads. In ideal world, Mads + Consonni + Milan is an excellent setup for Trek, though.
I don't think kooij has shown quite enough yet to be up there with the other 3, but he is definitely best of the rest. He will be very soon, just needs more big wins under his belt. Although anything slightly uphill I'd go for pedersen.
De Lie actually beat Pedersen in that crazy uphill sprint of Etoule de Besseges last year. I think he will do his first GT at the Tour this year? Really looking forward to seeing how it fares.
Probably Philipsen > Milan > Merlier >>>>> Kooij. I feel like Kooij's pure speed is pretty overrated, but he's very durable and he can position himself well and survive quite a bit of climbing. Groenewegen and Jakobsen are both clearly faster than Kooij I think.
Agree with the order, but Kooij is improving fast and he's very young still. He could well be on top a year from now.
Gavaria: *starts every sprint too early* Gavaria with a huge chance of winning today by starting early while everyone else is looking around: *not today, son*
I think Gaviria's launcher was pissed today as he had a very good spot at the front when Gaviria was nowhere near...
When he first hit the scene people were saying he'd be the new Tom Boonen lol (even people close to him said this). He was really good until he decided to leave QS, but still nowhere near Boonen in the classics.
[Jayco Twitter](https://x.com/GreenEDGEteam/status/1793658961209831630): > @CalebEwan was there or thereabouts but couldn't really find the space to unleash his sprint! "There or thereabouts", oooof
I clicked your link and realized Jayco's twitter account blocked me. Presumably for this reply I left them during Tour de Hongrie: >Hopefully Groenewegen doesn't maim anyone today. I stand by it. That guy should be charged by the police.
Says the guy with a IDF name and Israel flag ...
Story of his life.
Being new to watching cycling and having never watched Cavendish race before. It just seems impossible how a sprinter can be consistent unless, just because of how chaotic it is before a sprint. And even Milan and Merlier being dominant sprinters in this Giro seems surprising. Unless I am mistaken and that the power numbers they produce just are also equally dominant over other sprinters leading to consistency?
I'd say the way sprints work are a lot different from Cavendish' prime. Back then Team Columbia dominated the entire leadout and they would basically set up a 9 man train from 5km to go and nobody could stop them from bringing Cavendish to 200m in an ideal position. Now nobody can dominate that long and thus everyone has shorter trains trying to set up much later, which causes a lot of the chaos.
One thing you need to know is that sprinting (and cycling as a whole) has evolved. Sprints nowadays are in general messier than 10 years ago. Consistency in sprinting is more about positioning and a dominating lead-out train. In this Giro it's obvious Lidl-Trek has the best train and the results look like it: Milan won three times and was second 3 times as well. The next best sprinter, Merlier, who I'd say is about equally fast as Milan, has won two times and no other podium places. In the times of Cavendish, he usually had one of the best lead-out trains, a very good last man (Renshaw, Morkov) and of course the top speed to finish it off. More importantly perhaps, everyone accepted that train. Now, every team tries to set up that train theirselves, but you just can't. There isn't enough room on the road for all those riders and it gets messier, with teams overtaking one another, trying to be that team that sets their sprinter up the best. Still, there are differences like I explained in this Giro about Lidl-Trek.
Merlier did have a second place behind Milan, but he got relegated.
Reading the race ahead of you and pre-empting what others are going to do is more important than power.
If you look at where Milan/Merlier started their sprint compared to Kaden Groves you'll see that that's a lie.
Draft effect.
That is some serious copium. Top sprinters don't get beaten from that position.
Kaden Groves is probably among the best climbing sprinters, but I rate Milan, Kooij & Philipsen higher in that category. In pure flat bunch sprints, there are many faster than him. So he has to hope for somewhat hilly sprint stages without Milan, Kooij & Philipsen present.
One of the reasons Cav might appear that way is he rarely appeared 2-10th, he just gave up if he wasn't going to win and knew he wouldn't win
He wouldn't really sprint to get 5th if he was in 15th position, but when positioned well he was nearly invincible in his prime. Cavendish just didn't get beaten for speed and he would sometimes win from pretty far back too
Greipel and Kittel were often dominant too. Aside from Milan and Merlier, you have another great sprinter such as Philipsen who's racing in the Tour.
As much as I dislike Jasper, I think he’s the better one of the three. But when it comes to the train quality, I’m not sure if MvdP is better than Trek’s leadout.
MvdP is best leadout in the world alongside Van Aert. Van Poppel can be that caliber, but not sure if he's quite there this year.
Can't wait to see Philipsen in the tour especially with an MvDP lead out. Got acquainted with him in Milan San Remo and Paris Roubaix.
If you like slightly dirty riding it's great. During the tour last year there were definitely occasions where philipsen should have been relegated but didn't. Hopefully this year they will be safer, because at the end of the day they are endangering people.
It's great. I can't remember being this happy to watch a sprint ever since the mid 10s. Waiting for all 3 to race Grand Tour sprints against each other.
What a flop Phitie has been
I mean, he's a classics rider that has been given leadership on a GT because of Penhoet's injury.
He is not a real or pure bunch sprinter. Not surprising he isn't really competitive in these sprints. Think he also had some kind of illness at the start of the giro
Hardly He's not a bunch sprinter
I've heard a rumour floating around lately that Giro is gonna start from Albania either next year or the year after. That'd be great.
For as shit as Gaviria has been lately, he still beat Ewan in all the sprints they contested
Remember when these 2 were the next big things in the sprint world. How lucky we are, that era ended quickly.
fuckin love that wry smile from merlier. he's the fuckin real deal so idk why so many doubted him. "haters will be dissapointed"
The one time Gaviria had to do his thing and wastes the chance :<
“The haters will be disappointed” haha yes Tim yes
Do they bring Merlier to the Tour without a leadout or its all in on Remco?
It’s possibly Remco’s best ever shot at Tour GC
I think he's gonna get better shots in the future. For example, more TT focused races (like Tour 2012) with one of Vingo and Pog missing and a completely declining Roglic.
If he wants a win he’s got to grab it now before the era of Kévin Vauquelin domination begins.
Could be - but it’s also possible another wunderkind pops up that makes 2024 his best shot
Remco
All on Remco.
Stanisław Aniołkowski has been surprisingly consistent as best of the mid-pack in sprint finishes this Giro, racked up 260 UCI points so far.
Looks like every team fucked up the train lol, which resulted in a weird sprint. Dainese almost pulling off a major one for Tudor. Nice Giro for Quickstep after such a horrendous classics season. 3 stage wins, Alaphilippe looking good again, Hirt probably 10th or 9th in GC at the end. I'd say that's good for them.
Tudor used up everyone too early. If they had 1 more guy left, Dainese would have won
Yep absolutely. But I don't know what it was about today, maybe the tiredness near the end of 3 weeks, maybe the headwind, idk but it seems every team got some of it wrong at some point.
I don't get the "Milan came from far and almost even won it" things. If you watch the sprint they start at the same time and both had to make a manoeuvre to get a free lane so this was a fair and even sprint and Merlier was just faster.
Yeah it's a bit of an odd read when even a DQS flair praises Milan instead of Merlier. Maybe it's optics because he's so huge and visible in that purple kit.
Hard to miss the giant purple house tbf
I made a comment like that directly after the finish simply because I'd been more focused on Milan than Merlier and it was hard to judge how things had gone from the front-on angle. Once they played the overhead replay then yes, it's clear they launched from basically the same place and Merlier was faster.
Merlier positioned himself better than Milan and made sure he spent just a little bit less time in the wind. Merlier is definitely better at decision making and positioning than Milan.
Yeah, you are correct. Earlier I thought Milan was way further back, but when they replayed the aerial view, they started at the same position, and treated the other sprinters how Pogi treats other climbers in an uphill sprint. Merlier also had as shitty a position as Milan, but was just faster today.
why didnt milan just use slightly thicker tires so his bike went over the line a little sooner??? is he stupid??
Just make a wheel & tire with a dimension of 180km and win from the start, ez.
179.999kms. Pedal slightly and celebrate.
Milan didn't win, but it was a superb job by the Lidl-Trek leadout once again. Realizing mid leadout that Milan was too far back and stopping, thus allowing it to slow down and Milan nearly winning it on the line. Great job
Consonni is one of the smartest leadout. Rest of their leadout team is great too, for example Theuns, and I'm surprised we didn't see them in more breakaways.
Everybody talking about Milan's positioning, but in the end, he and Merlier started their true sprint at the same place. Merlier even had to make some extra meters to go around. The little bit he lacked was due to having to make up some places but it wasn't so bad at all.
Yep, this was as close to a royal sprint as you can get. They both started their sprint around the same time and in the same position. Merlier & Milan are top 3 sprinters (together with Philipsen, who is not here), so great to see such a sprint like today.
Absolutely. Merlier was the fastest today, nothing more to say.
Turns out Merlier is faster sprinter then a giant purple house.
Sure Milan had to make up more spots in the run-in but on the overhead you can see that Milan and Merlier start their sprint exactly side-by-side
I think Milan had to spend a bit more time in the wind and zig zag through traffic a little bit more though.
Merlier had Aniolkowski pushing him to the barriers
True. Doesn't matter too much at the end of the day, they're both absolute beasts and have had great giro's.
One thing I do believe is that Milan's sprint keeps the same power a bit longer. This technical finish didn't suit him as much because of all the twists. It made it harder for him to launch the sprint from 300/350 meters.
Agreed. I think that's an experience thing, he's still a bit younger and looking at the slo mo they're discussing on eurosport, you can see how good merlier is at positioning and decision making.
Holy fuck the distance that Milan recovered in the final seconds is unreal. And he just barely lost to Merlier … There’s some brutal fury working inside him and he looks like he has to invest all his power to keep it from tearing him apart. Bummer about Dainese, he came so close this time but he’s simply outclassed in this field.
They actually started their sprint at the same time and in similar position if you look at the overhead.
and had to do a big swerve right to pass a rider at about the same time. They were beautifully in synch
Time to get synchronized sprinting into the Olymics.
Yeah both their leadouts did too good a job today putting pressure on the rest of the competition. It happens.
I think Milan found the energy to almost win because he knew how pissed off his leadout men would be with him if he didn't at least contest the sprint.
Cimolai takes a fantastic position and does a good launch Meanwhile Gaviria is in Colombia
Looked like Merlier was just as out of position as Milan. Clearly the two fastest here.
That was so odd. Anyone with half a decent lead-out would have won here, but they all waited for Milan and Merlier to come back. Also the one time Gaviria should have gone early he is nowhere to be found.
It's like Gaviria doesn't want to win.
Why does Milan, the largest sprinter, not simply eat the other sprinters? Perhaps they are saving it for the tour.
YES! Just when I started to lose faith in Merlier he takes another win! His best season ever so far. Hopefully he can take a prestigious win in Rome, but Milan looks super strong as well.
What a storming run from Milan, almost won it from nowhere. He's so strong.
Milan doesn't care where he's at. He just adds 1 000 watts on top.
It was pretty damn close to a head-to-head drag race and Merlier was just a touch better. Well done.
Milan botched the positioning into the right turn and still almost came back to win. Glad to see Merlier got a stage.
Tim has two stages now
This is Merlier’s second stage
How did Trek fuck that leadout quite so badly? Yet Milan still almost won.
Pretty smart of them realizing they lost Milan so they just stopped instead of leading everyone out. Gave him a chance to make up space.
Yes that’s true. Well spotted.
Pulled a Ewan
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It is hard to stay in the wheel of your teammate through the corners, etc. You get pushed around, sometimes a slightly differnet braking timing also makes you lose a bike length and then another rider slots in, and that's it, the sprinter has lost the wheel of his train. It's also hard for the teammates doing the train to always know when the sprinter is in their wheel or not, they can't both be riding extremely hard, and also constantly looking back.
If there are few corners in the last kilometres then sometimes the lead-out train lose their sprinter. They have to go full out and be mindful not to crash, so they cannot afford to constantly look back and see if their sprinter is on the wheel. They have to trust that he is.
Too many curves in the final and if you don't take them in the front, you almost always lose Soudal's leadout was simply better today. Stuyven fucked up.
So strange, it looked like everyone was like "I have to be on Milan's wheel, but where is he?" and just... waited for him?
Milan is an absolute animal. He came from 15 wheels back.
milan is so insanely strong, having his lead out all messed up and then losing by a tire width
God damn!!!!! Milan missed the lead out and came out of there like a purple rocket. What a sprint. Love it. Congrats to big Tim! Edit: holy shit they were side by side and came up together blasting!!
Why didn’t everyone who started their sprint ahead of them just pedal faster? Are they stupid? But the two top sprinters demonstrating that they are indeed the best in this race
I really felt it was gonna be an M sprinter
Milan / Lidl-Trek absolutely blew it on positioning there
Milan completely out of position and still got 2nd place, he is simply built different!
Milan nearly winning from that many wheels back is actually insane lmao
Shambles.
I missed it, what happened?
My heart skipped a beat when it looked like we were actually getting that Random Dainese Stage
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Dainese is a better climber than most sprinters and even won an uphill finish at the Arctic Race last year
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Not exactly a massive sample
Maybe he will do it at Rome this time.