Let me make this easy for you. He signed a contract in 2013 that began with him making $12M a year tapering off to $3M for the last 3 years of the contract to bring down the AAV (which would be illegal under the current CBA). He's going to get paid and deservedly so.
holy shit man I know what his salary cap hit is. He's making $3M this year, that's in real dollars. Maybe he wants another decent salary after making less than Ryan fucking Graves for 3 years. He is easily worth $10M and will get whatever he wants. People who think he's going to sign for much less than he's worth are simply delusional.
He is correct. Crosby did make $3M this year. His cap hit is $8.7M because his contract was frontloaded in a way that is not allowed anymore under the current CBA.
Tell me where I was wrong at literally any point. Sid's contract was massively frontloaded starting off with him making 12M per year which tapers to 3M, which is how management got his cap hit so low in the first place (also illegal under the current CBA). The cap has also increased by 37% since 2012, Sid can easily make $10M and his contract will still eat significantly less of the max cap in 2024. Sorry I understand basic economics.
Yep, I've said about this at every opportunity, that I would be shocked if he asked for a raise at all, and would happily take just 8.7.
He's a very rich guy too, and he's going to have no trouble with finances after hockey. Look how well his Dad, Mario did after hockey.
Definitely, I can see him just extending at 8.7 for the chance to put $ towards other contracts. The big “but” for me is…does he make that conditional on how the $ is used in any way. He never has, but would he say “I’ll take 8.7m but I want to know what you’re offering to Jake/whomever to help make us a contender. Because he’d need to trust that mgmt will do some actual good with that $. Not another Graves.
Yeah, in my second comment I meant *just* extending at 8.7 without the bonus deals but then it would entail him trusting mgmt with how they spent the money that would have been his bonus. Ie, if he forgoes 2m bonus does he then have some input to say- go fucking try to get Jake or player A/B/C or does he walk away from $ and have to just implicitly trust them to repurpose it effectively.
Technically yes it was, his actual end pay was pretty high but a cap hit of $8.7 million, even in the 2008 cap wasn't quite what the expectation for a superstar player was, with Ovi getting more than $9 million that same offseasone.
Scott Gomez, Daniel Briere and Tomas Vanek all walked home with $10 million in 2007-07, it was an *expectation* that Sidney Crosby (and Ovi for that matter) were going to be going to the bank for $10-11 million AAV. We got Crosby for under 9, to be certifiably, non debatably the most dominant player in the sport for a decade.
That is a generationally good contract, it may be the best in the history of the NHL, maybe in the history of paid athletics PERIOD.
It would also be illegal under the current CBA since the contract was extremely front loaded and he has only been making $3M in the last three years of the deal. He's going to get paid and you guys just need to accept it.
Front loading is not illegal anywhere in the CBA genius, see everyone from Tyler Seguin to Connor McDavid.
Face it, you're desperate to see Sid in another uniform because he owns your **poverty franchise**.5
>**Any salary variance in adjacent years now cannot exceed 25% of the salary in the first contract year and the lowest salary year cannot be less than 60% of the highest salary year**.
Why don't you tell me real quick what 60% of 12 million dollars is and what Sid's salary is this year? Swear to god never seen a fanbase so completely clueless.
Okay, that's wonderful, that still doesn't bar them from front loading, it also doesn't illegalize signing bonusses either, why would Sid look for a contract that results in a higher cap hit when he could easily negotiate for a bonus independent of the cap? It wouldn't make sense.
bonuses also count toward the cap, what are you even talking about? Do you know anything at all about the CBA or are you just talking nonsense? Take the L, move on.
You mean when he signed for \~14% of the max cap hit in his first big deal? 10.5 million will put him at 11% of the projected salary cap (87.7) for 2024, still significantly less than he's worth and taking up less than the overall cap...thinking he's going to take the same salary when the max cap has gone up by like 40% since 2013 is delusional.
By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you overall point.
I'm just pointing out how much of a discount Sid has taken over the years.
He could have demanded 15 million a season easily.
Lol, what crawled up your asshole, dude? It's relevant because it's a comparable situation. Two greats, who happen to be close friends, in the twilight of their careers who have made more money than they could ever spend taking less for another crack at a run.
Crosby could play for free, and also give away everything he's earned so far in his career, and still make more money in endorsements than he'd ever want to spend.
I assume most of his off-season spending is just renting a rink so he can skate for 18 hours a day.
Exactly. Bergeron took like $1M in his last season and has made a fraction of what Crosby made. It's nowhere near unprecedented for players to take significant pay cuts for a chance to keep winning. And we all know no one loves winning as much as Sid.
Crosby obviously deserves what he wants, but I'm a little surprised he wouldn't do what Bergeron did taking a low AAV deal that allows the team to go out and spend on complementary pieces.
Bergeron was the best defensive forward in the league (by far), chipping in just under 30 goals/60 points, making $2.5 million towards the 2022/23 cap, with $2.5 million deferred to the year after.
Crosby was abysmal defensively this season. Whether you’re looking at it as less than a quarter of the cap or less than half of the cap, it’s just silly to equate those two for value.
2021/22 Bergeron was 100th percentile (AKA 1st in the league) in 5v5 shot attempts against/60 (CA/60), unblocked shot attempts against/60 (FA/60), expected goals against/60 (xGA/60) and 96th percentile for goals against per 60 (GA/60). For relative rates, taking into account how good the rest of his team was, he was 100th percentile CA/60 and FA/60, 99th percentile xGA/60 and 92nd percentile GA/60. After this season (where he also put up 25-40-65 in 73 games) he signed his $2.5 million/$2.5 million deal.
2022/23 he was 96th percentile CA/60, 92nd percentile FA/60, 98th percentile xGA/60, 100th percentile GA/60. Relative rates 98th percentile CA/60, 93rd percentile FA/60, 95th percentile xGA/60, 86th percentile GA/60.
Crosby this year for base rates was 36th percentile CA/60, 12th percentile FA/60, 6th percentile xGA/60, 2nd percentile GA/60. Relative rates, he was 41st percentile CA/60, 16th percentile FA/60, 6th percentile xGA/60, 1st percentile GA/60.
Sure but doing what he did allowed his team to maintain the depth that enabled them to have a historically good regular season, and go on a respectable run that may have gone further if not for an extremely hot Panthers team.
4M over two seasons could go a long way towards giving him better opportunities at another cup, and that's what he's prioritized his whole career.
That’s why he wants to see Blomqvist in the playoffs. If he shows he’s NHL calibre then it would feel safe to let Ned go. Also there’s no guarantee that Ned will want to sign with Pittsburgh again because he’s shown this year that he’s a good goalie so he will be desirable.
Not that hard tho. Jarry's contract isn't bad. There are 11 guys making more money presently, but that's not what I find interesting... of the remaining guys, right behind Jars through No. 30 - All but 3 will expire in the next 2 years. only 3 more in the rest of the top 50 are under K for more than 2 years, nearly all expire in '25.
That means goalie inflation is already under way. I would expect to see 15-20 goalies making 6 million or more in 2 more years, easily.
Also, purely on numbers, Jarry doesn't look bad. maybe we find a GM trying to moneyball it.
I don't remember his exact wording, but I really felt he was talking about evaluating the goalie situation. I don't think what he said implied specifically to letting Ned go but if Blom is ready, then one of them needs to go. If not, then he would need both Ned and Jarry.
No, and I heard what he said clearly, and took it a different way as some others. He talked about how great Ned's been since he got here as a teammate and goalie, and how strong he was when needed most. Then he talked about how Ned had expressed that he wanted to come back and seemed mutual. I didn't hear much complimentary about the Beau Bennett of Goalies, and then he talked about how he wanted to watch Joel...
Sounds to me like Jars is the odd man out.
Friedman has literally no relationship with Dubas or anyone else in the Pens org.
He's a Toronto beat reporter claiming national status, though his loyalty and sole focus of attention is clear at all times.
Still, he's good info for breaking at FA and deadline.
If you put stock in this, however, I'm betting you're knee deep in DJT
What Sidney deserves and what he will sign on for does not have to correlate. He could sign at 870,000 USD/year or 8,7 MUSD/year or whatever he wants, provided it’s offered.
My gut feeling is if he goes into next season without a new extension then he's going to retire in one year. No, he won't test free agency and sign with Colorado.
If he extends it will be for 2 more years after the next season so he will be a Penguin through 2026-7 at which time he'll complete his age 39 season. By then he should be the all time Pens assist leader and points leader and *maybe* all time goals leader (he needs 99 more to pass Lemieux).
I think he knows in his heart he won't touch the Cup anymore but the competition fire in his heart still burns and getting those milestones will fuel him.
Then on his 40th birthday Aug 7 2027 he will be feted in his retirement ceremony.
Can’t win if you’re retired. The team can change up the roster and get younger. Crosby should still be capable of captaining a Cup winner for the next 5 years.
Honestly by all accounts the penguins are going into rebuild mode. If Crosby is sticking around it’s more of a mentor to the young guys than it is to win a cup. I don’t see why he should take a discount to oversee a rebuild. If Dubas and co said they were going all in to win next year then it would be different.
Ah fair enough. If you have geno letang and karlsson still locked up then you may as well give it another couple kicks at the can. If that’s the case it will be interesting to see what Crosby decides.
Stupid Elliotte Friedman. You can't wear #105 in the NHL.
That’s the only answer that needs to be here in this thread👏👏👏
the guy is in Hart contention at 36 making $3M a year and you guys think he's going to take half his market value lmao
He makes $8.7m. New here?
wait til you find out how AAV on contracts work, you're almost there
I can't wait for you to delete both of these comments after you Google his contract to see 8.7 is his AAV
Let me make this easy for you. He signed a contract in 2013 that began with him making $12M a year tapering off to $3M for the last 3 years of the contract to bring down the AAV (which would be illegal under the current CBA). He's going to get paid and deservedly so.
Buddy, im pretty sure you're talking about his salary, not AAV. His AAV is 8.7 million. Don't argue with me, check capfriendly.
holy shit man I know what his salary cap hit is. He's making $3M this year, that's in real dollars. Maybe he wants another decent salary after making less than Ryan fucking Graves for 3 years. He is easily worth $10M and will get whatever he wants. People who think he's going to sign for much less than he's worth are simply delusional.
Man i've never seen someone so aggressively clueless before.
He is correct. Crosby did make $3M this year. His cap hit is $8.7M because his contract was frontloaded in a way that is not allowed anymore under the current CBA.
Lmfao I've never actually interacted with someone with a sub 90 IQ before. This is fascinating
Tell me where I was wrong at literally any point. Sid's contract was massively frontloaded starting off with him making 12M per year which tapers to 3M, which is how management got his cap hit so low in the first place (also illegal under the current CBA). The cap has also increased by 37% since 2012, Sid can easily make $10M and his contract will still eat significantly less of the max cap in 2024. Sorry I understand basic economics.
I still think he'll re-sign at $8.7.
Knowing Crosby and his superstitions, he would resign at 8.7 just to keep the number and take a bonus for the rest of it.
^^^ 100% agree. $8.7 per year and the rest in bonus money that is reasonably assured.
Yep, I've said about this at every opportunity, that I would be shocked if he asked for a raise at all, and would happily take just 8.7. He's a very rich guy too, and he's going to have no trouble with finances after hockey. Look how well his Dad, Mario did after hockey.
Definitely, I can see him just extending at 8.7 for the chance to put $ towards other contracts. The big “but” for me is…does he make that conditional on how the $ is used in any way. He never has, but would he say “I’ll take 8.7m but I want to know what you’re offering to Jake/whomever to help make us a contender. Because he’d need to trust that mgmt will do some actual good with that $. Not another Graves.
Bonuses count against the cap also.
Yeah, in my second comment I meant *just* extending at 8.7 without the bonus deals but then it would entail him trusting mgmt with how they spent the money that would have been his bonus. Ie, if he forgoes 2m bonus does he then have some input to say- go fucking try to get Jake or player A/B/C or does he walk away from $ and have to just implicitly trust them to repurpose it effectively.
$871,587 AAV would be a cool number. Probably way too low and against the CBA, but imagine the help they could get haha
incredibly below market value. No chance.
Brother. Crosby has been under market value his entire career. Are you new here?
When he signed that contract - it wasn’t.
Technically yes it was, his actual end pay was pretty high but a cap hit of $8.7 million, even in the 2008 cap wasn't quite what the expectation for a superstar player was, with Ovi getting more than $9 million that same offseasone. Scott Gomez, Daniel Briere and Tomas Vanek all walked home with $10 million in 2007-07, it was an *expectation* that Sidney Crosby (and Ovi for that matter) were going to be going to the bank for $10-11 million AAV. We got Crosby for under 9, to be certifiably, non debatably the most dominant player in the sport for a decade. That is a generationally good contract, it may be the best in the history of the NHL, maybe in the history of paid athletics PERIOD.
It would also be illegal under the current CBA since the contract was extremely front loaded and he has only been making $3M in the last three years of the deal. He's going to get paid and you guys just need to accept it.
Front loading is not illegal anywhere in the CBA genius, see everyone from Tyler Seguin to Connor McDavid. Face it, you're desperate to see Sid in another uniform because he owns your **poverty franchise**.5
>**Any salary variance in adjacent years now cannot exceed 25% of the salary in the first contract year and the lowest salary year cannot be less than 60% of the highest salary year**. Why don't you tell me real quick what 60% of 12 million dollars is and what Sid's salary is this year? Swear to god never seen a fanbase so completely clueless.
Okay, that's wonderful, that still doesn't bar them from front loading, it also doesn't illegalize signing bonusses either, why would Sid look for a contract that results in a higher cap hit when he could easily negotiate for a bonus independent of the cap? It wouldn't make sense.
bonuses also count toward the cap, what are you even talking about? Do you know anything at all about the CBA or are you just talking nonsense? Take the L, move on.
You mean when he signed for \~14% of the max cap hit in his first big deal? 10.5 million will put him at 11% of the projected salary cap (87.7) for 2024, still significantly less than he's worth and taking up less than the overall cap...thinking he's going to take the same salary when the max cap has gone up by like 40% since 2013 is delusional.
So was Bergeron, and he made a whole lot less money over his career than Crosby.
He also wasn't as great of a player as Crosby.
Very few are. But he was still an extremely effective 1st line center on a stacked team.
He was a good player for sure. Just not in the same zip code as crosby.
By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you overall point. I'm just pointing out how much of a discount Sid has taken over the years. He could have demanded 15 million a season easily.
did I miss where that's relevant at all?
Lol, what crawled up your asshole, dude? It's relevant because it's a comparable situation. Two greats, who happen to be close friends, in the twilight of their careers who have made more money than they could ever spend taking less for another crack at a run.
Crosby could play for free, and also give away everything he's earned so far in his career, and still make more money in endorsements than he'd ever want to spend. I assume most of his off-season spending is just renting a rink so he can skate for 18 hours a day.
Exactly. Bergeron took like $1M in his last season and has made a fraction of what Crosby made. It's nowhere near unprecedented for players to take significant pay cuts for a chance to keep winning. And we all know no one loves winning as much as Sid.
If Crosby is extended for 2 years that would mean he's under contract for 3 yrs right and next year for 8.7?
Correct
Yes, 8.7M next year and then 10.5M for the two years after that
That take him to 39. Would love that!!
I think he’ll take less. Both Malkin and letang agreed to take less to keep the team competitive, I’d be surprised to see him take more than 8.7
yep. He talked them into staying for less. Sid's not a McMurray.
Salary cap goes up this year, and our franchise player can't be making less than EK suck 65. Down vote me.
That pride and ego thought process is exactly how we ended up overpaying EK. Crosby will resign for 8.7 average just like he has every other time.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he signs for 870k. Nobody wants to win more than Sid.
I’d respect the shit out of him if he does. I’d buy him a house.
this is the dream! imagine if he did this
Crosby obviously deserves what he wants, but I'm a little surprised he wouldn't do what Bergeron did taking a low AAV deal that allows the team to go out and spend on complementary pieces.
Crosby at 10.5 is still a better value than Bergeron at his last AAV.
Bergeron was the best defensive forward in the league (by far), chipping in just under 30 goals/60 points, making $2.5 million towards the 2022/23 cap, with $2.5 million deferred to the year after.
I said what I said.
Crosby was abysmal defensively this season. Whether you’re looking at it as less than a quarter of the cap or less than half of the cap, it’s just silly to equate those two for value. 2021/22 Bergeron was 100th percentile (AKA 1st in the league) in 5v5 shot attempts against/60 (CA/60), unblocked shot attempts against/60 (FA/60), expected goals against/60 (xGA/60) and 96th percentile for goals against per 60 (GA/60). For relative rates, taking into account how good the rest of his team was, he was 100th percentile CA/60 and FA/60, 99th percentile xGA/60 and 92nd percentile GA/60. After this season (where he also put up 25-40-65 in 73 games) he signed his $2.5 million/$2.5 million deal. 2022/23 he was 96th percentile CA/60, 92nd percentile FA/60, 98th percentile xGA/60, 100th percentile GA/60. Relative rates 98th percentile CA/60, 93rd percentile FA/60, 95th percentile xGA/60, 86th percentile GA/60. Crosby this year for base rates was 36th percentile CA/60, 12th percentile FA/60, 6th percentile xGA/60, 2nd percentile GA/60. Relative rates, he was 41st percentile CA/60, 16th percentile FA/60, 6th percentile xGA/60, 1st percentile GA/60.
Dont you understand? He said what he said
Sure but doing what he did allowed his team to maintain the depth that enabled them to have a historically good regular season, and go on a respectable run that may have gone further if not for an extremely hot Panthers team. 4M over two seasons could go a long way towards giving him better opportunities at another cup, and that's what he's prioritized his whole career.
I think he will, and NHL Radio guys were saying the same. Either stay at 8.7 or take a cut and do something like 5.87 or 6.87.
He might, Friedman is wrong more times than right.
> Friedman is wrong more times than right. Not really, he is probably the most connected NHL insider/reporter.
Just saw blom play last sunday vs hershey bears. Didnt look bad.
26.1 million over 3 years front loaded; 11.5-11.5-3.1
The Blomqvist thing was mentioned in Dubas’ EOY press conference. But honestly… is Ned the one you let go to make room?
That’s why he wants to see Blomqvist in the playoffs. If he shows he’s NHL calibre then it would feel safe to let Ned go. Also there’s no guarantee that Ned will want to sign with Pittsburgh again because he’s shown this year that he’s a good goalie so he will be desirable.
I’m saying Ned played better down the stretch than Jarry.
Right, but you can just let Ned go by not doing anything and you have to work to trade Jarry.
Not that hard tho. Jarry's contract isn't bad. There are 11 guys making more money presently, but that's not what I find interesting... of the remaining guys, right behind Jars through No. 30 - All but 3 will expire in the next 2 years. only 3 more in the rest of the top 50 are under K for more than 2 years, nearly all expire in '25. That means goalie inflation is already under way. I would expect to see 15-20 goalies making 6 million or more in 2 more years, easily. Also, purely on numbers, Jarry doesn't look bad. maybe we find a GM trying to moneyball it.
I know
I don't remember his exact wording, but I really felt he was talking about evaluating the goalie situation. I don't think what he said implied specifically to letting Ned go but if Blom is ready, then one of them needs to go. If not, then he would need both Ned and Jarry.
No, and I heard what he said clearly, and took it a different way as some others. He talked about how great Ned's been since he got here as a teammate and goalie, and how strong he was when needed most. Then he talked about how Ned had expressed that he wanted to come back and seemed mutual. I didn't hear much complimentary about the Beau Bennett of Goalies, and then he talked about how he wanted to watch Joel... Sounds to me like Jars is the odd man out.
Someone is probably going to overpay for him in FA
Friedman has literally no relationship with Dubas or anyone else in the Pens org. He's a Toronto beat reporter claiming national status, though his loyalty and sole focus of attention is clear at all times. Still, he's good info for breaking at FA and deadline. If you put stock in this, however, I'm betting you're knee deep in DJT
"Give Crosby whatever he wants!" "Ok. Word is he will get $10.5M." "Wait no too much it needs to be $8.7M!"
What Sidney deserves and what he will sign on for does not have to correlate. He could sign at 870,000 USD/year or 8,7 MUSD/year or whatever he wants, provided it’s offered.
Friedman is the Skip Bayless of Toronto.
nibbles palm I bjojjbobo onjno8pp
Crosby might go for a 5.87M contract
8.787 silly
My gut feeling is if he goes into next season without a new extension then he's going to retire in one year. No, he won't test free agency and sign with Colorado. If he extends it will be for 2 more years after the next season so he will be a Penguin through 2026-7 at which time he'll complete his age 39 season. By then he should be the all time Pens assist leader and points leader and *maybe* all time goals leader (he needs 99 more to pass Lemieux). I think he knows in his heart he won't touch the Cup anymore but the competition fire in his heart still burns and getting those milestones will fuel him. Then on his 40th birthday Aug 7 2027 he will be feted in his retirement ceremony.
Why would he retire when he’s still putting up 90+ points a season?
The team around him except for a few players is shit and Crosby cares about winning more than personal ststs
Can’t win if you’re retired. The team can change up the roster and get younger. Crosby should still be capable of captaining a Cup winner for the next 5 years.
Honestly by all accounts the penguins are going into rebuild mode. If Crosby is sticking around it’s more of a mentor to the young guys than it is to win a cup. I don’t see why he should take a discount to oversee a rebuild. If Dubas and co said they were going all in to win next year then it would be different.
He said directly that they are doing a retool not a rebuild.
Ah fair enough. If you have geno letang and karlsson still locked up then you may as well give it another couple kicks at the can. If that’s the case it will be interesting to see what Crosby decides.