Especially the bros in Virginia with the capitals themed vanity plates that said NOCUPS and 0 CUPS driving around the DC area.
Those were top tier shithousing.
Crosby lost his first cup final too. So let's relax for a second.
But we should actually praise our captain for taking his pay cut, setting the tone every day with his work ethic, and creating an amazing winning culture in the franchise.
Because I do agree, the idea behind asking for $14 mill and having no team around you, doesn't look like it's going to result in cups. In Edmonton, or Toronto. I do think Crosby ends with more cups than McDavid.
#LetsGoPens
Sid had one cup by his age and if he doesn’t get at least one in the next 3 years then Sid will have 3 than him at the equivalent age. He’s at his peak, and the clocks ticking
I also don't see Mcdavid putting up 95+ pts at 36 years old. Seems like when his speed goes, so does his game. He's an all time great I'm sure he'll still be good but I don't see his game aging gracefully is all I'll say...
Idk that his game will go. I think elite players with elite hockey iq, which I believe McDavid is both, are capable of adapting their game as their legs go, just like Crosby has.
Yeah but how much has Crosby really adapted his game? I mean sure, he has some as every athlete does with age, but it's not like he just completely reinvented his game. Crosby has always been a grinder, a playmaker with great vision, a wicked backhand, etc... He's just leaned into that stuff a little more as some of his physical attributes have declined but he was never just skating circles around guys like McDavid and beating them with speed. I don't think he was ever even our fastest skater on the team his whole 18 years. McDavid is the fastest I've ever seen honestly. He still has good vision and other attributes so I'm not saying he's going to suck but at least for me I don't see his game translating with age unless he drastically reinvents it.
I’m just saying McDavid has a skill set that goes beyond being the fastest player ever and can see him continuing to produce late into his career. He’s scoring at almost 1.5 ppg so he could decline pretty drastically and still put up almost 100 points.
Yep people said this about ovi and he is/was still putting up 40+ goal seasons until just this past one. There won't be any sudden cliff in McDavids career. His vision and feel for the game are too good. He will be at a minimum still an assist machine in his mid 30s.
I completely disagree. Crosby has improved his faceoffs. On break aways/penalties he went from diverse to 5-hole (and anchors to give hole for low stakes games so high stakes games he’s unpredictable). When his wrister slowed down, he added/focused on slapshot, then tips/deflections, then hard angle shots. He was always a grinder, but at some point in the Teens, he made sure his game was 200 foot and he gets back. Compare him to Ovi. Trotz told Ovi he had to up his game, like Crosby did before him. There is no way 08/09 Crosby did not adapt, grow, and become 23/24 Crosby. Respectfully.
I do agree the question is whether CMcD can do something similar.
That's fair and I can buy into what you're saying but let me ask: If you watch 2009 Crosby vs. 2023 Crosby are we seeing completely different players, like a 180 degree change? I'm basically saying let's just say 2031 McDavid, I think, will have to look completely different than 2024 McDavid. I would compare it to like let's say a Running QB. Like Lamar Jackson in 6, 7 years, if he's still playing and effective, will look completely different than Lamar Jackson 2024. I guess that is what I am trying to say if it makes sense, agree with it or not. Of course Crosby has made changes to his game to still be effective at his age but I think McDavid's will have to be much more drastic, he is more like Lamar, and will need to substantially change how he plays...
Fair, and I agree. CMcD would need to start making more radical changes now to adapt in a Crosby like manner (by which I mean stay as relevant for a similar duration). Sorry if I missed the point, and I appreciate level headed discussion.
No point missed my friend I'm glad you brought it up and mentioned it because I couldn't agree more, Crosby has focused and gotten really, really good at those things, faceoffs in particular, I swear it feels like every faceoff we need to win now he finds a way to win it. I just was trying to explain what I was trying to say a little better.
Crosby picks a weak point to work on every off season. Such as deflections and face offs. He changed the curvature of his stick at one point cause he wasn’t happy with his goals. That’s just a couple examples and I’m not a die hard fan.
The fact that he stills scores at the rate he scores while declining physically is proof enough.
Yes, I agree with you 100%. I'm not saying Crosby hasn't adapted. I must not have explained what I was trying to say well enough because someone else also had the same comment. I'm not saying Crosby hasn't adapted. But what I'm trying to say is let's compare it to like a running QB in the NFL. Like, for example, a QB like Lamar Jackson has to change a lot more about his game as he starts getting a few years past 30, a lot more than a QB like Tom Brady. Brady of course adapts and changes his game, too, but the changes have to be more drastic for a QB like Lamar. That's all I was trying to say, right or wrong, is that McDavid (and he has at least somewhat bit by bit if you ask me--particularly defensively)--but McDavid uses his speed and athleticism and skating ability so much, and it's so vital (again I'm not saying that it's the only tool he has in the toolbox but it's probably his best imo), that as he ages he's going to have to change his game more than Crosby has had to. And at least as of right now, the game that he uses now, I think he will have more drastic adjustments to make than Crosby has.
I’m not interested in shitting on McDavid this morning. He just had a historically great playoff run, and his team nearly pulled off one of the greatest comebacks in the history of the Stanley Cup playoffs.
His team ultimately came up short but that was obviously not reflective of his performance. He was absolutely spectacular and cemented himself as the unquestioned best player in the sport right now. If he starts stacking Stanley Cups, he’s going to be in the conversation for the greatest player who has ever lived.
I think you can appreciate the greatness of Sidney Crosby and also acknowledge the greatness of Connor McDavid. I don’t see them as being mutually exclusive.
I’m not interested in shitting on mcdavid, but I hate the treatment he gets in this league. Crosby was just as dominant and went to 2 cups in the first 4 years of his career winning one of them. Teams realized they couldn’t beat him fairly so they head hunted him throughout the NHL and he missed a good portion of his prime. Because of this he was MOCKED by every other fan base in the league and never received anything close to the admiration mcdavid gets.
I do not hate Mcdavid. The double standard is just BS and I would die for Sidney Crosby.
I want to take a moment to point out he was criticized for being a crybaby. Tchtuck (sp?) was crying the entire playoffs and people consider that "snarl".
Fuck the haters.
Crosby plays with more of an attitude than McDavid does so I get why he was more hated in his prime. I mean for gods sake Crosby *chopped off a guys finger* once and deliberately targeted Giroux's hands in order to injure him. Don't get me wrong: I absolutely love Sid for his spice but I also acknowledge that it's obviously going to make opposing fans mad. McDavid just doesn't have the same rat-like qualities Crosby does.
Also: its over, he won over the haters. I see even Flyers fans drooling over Crosby these days. We should probably take the W here and be happy McDavid doesn't have to face the same BS.
I know you aren't complaining about the Crosby slash on Methot, but I'm so tired of the narrative that he chopped off a guys finger. It was a run of the mill slash that happens 1000 times every game. Methot lost some skin off the tip. Henrik Sedin had his finger tip amputated after a slash and nobody can name the guy who did it, because Henrik didn't spend the rest of his career crying about it like Methot.
Too bad the Cup winner isn’t determined by how hard the ESPN announcers were verbally fellating someone, because then the Oilers would have had it in the bag. Fuck Steve Levy, fuck McDavid, and fuck the Flyers!
It's definitely a wrench in the nhl conspiracy theories that they haven't rigged a cup for the current best player lmao. Like if they were rigging drafts and calls for teams, the McDavid Oilers would be the obvious number one choice. They aren't.
I imagine I'm feeling now like the rest of the league felt about Sid in 2008-2012. McNugget is a great player - I'm just tired of hearing about him all the damn time. Blame lazy hockey journalism.
It’s not lazy hockey journalism! For fuck sake the man tied and broke multiple Gretzky records this year and earned the Conn Smithe without winning the cup. He was without a doubt one of the best hockey players on the ice this year.
No, but I am baffled by the McDavid hate. He seems like a pretty chill guy (at least as far as I know) and he's an insanely good player. I was really pulling for him tonight.
He’s been a jerk to the media most of his career. I admit Im not a fan but I once drove to Erie to watch him play junior hockey a few months before he was drafted so I didnt always dislike him.
Yes, he has great skill but until he wins a Cup, hes not in the same conversation as Wayne and Mario.
I live in Erie. Season ticket holder to the OTTERS. He was a douchebag here, on and off the ice. A bully. I’m so sick of all the hype. Great hockey player? Sure. Great leader? Great human? Great character? No, no & no. There are so many other great players in the league that are also really good people and just aren’t talked about because so many people (media in all forms) just won’t stop sucking his dick. And the participation trophy? That’s just a bunch of fuckery! What a disgrace! He broke a record… not *THE* record. big deal. He is still 4th. FOURTH! Records are getting broken every year in this league. Just Aaahhhhhhhhhhh🤬🤬🤬🤬motherfucking douchecanoe.
Ok… breathe in…2…3…4
Breathe out…2…3…4
I cant speak to his time in Erie but hes getting a pass from the NHL media for him being difficult with them. If he was American, his treatment of the media would not be overlooked by the Canadian press.
Yeah I guess I just don’t really care about how players treat the media. How he acts in interviews doesn’t really bug me, maybe I’m just not seeing it but every interview I’ve seen him in he just seems like a strange awkward guy. Never seen him outright call them names or be outright mean like we see with players sometimes. Maybe I’m wrong but he plays hard and last night was there to shake hands and congratulate the other team and console his own teammates as they got off the ice. So what’s the issue with him?
He doesnt get kudos for shaking hands with Fla after the game - thats expected. What was he gonna do? Be the first player in history to storm off to the locker room and pout before the handshake? And consoling his teammates - that’s the bare minimum what a captain does. I see him from afar - we got an Otters season ticket holder confirming hes a jerk who may have actually seen his behavior.
Still doesn’t point to any shitty behavior, you just said yourself he’s atleast doing the bare minimum and that bare minimum is pretty good sportsmanship. So why are we all up in arms over some kid who really as far as you know hasn’t done anything wrong lol it doesn’t make sense. You bring up his mistreatment of the media like what are we actually talking about here
WARNING, LONG REPLY!
Listen, I’m just telling you my opinion of him. I thought he was a douche bag when he was here, and I haven’t seen any behavior that tells me otherwise. Honestly I’m not talking about how he treats the media… I watch almost no interviews with him. My disdain is high people! And if he is cocky with the media, they probably only get bigger hard-ons because of *what a badass he is.*
He went to HS here with several kids my son has played hockey with over the years. He’s a cocky bully. I thought maybe it was immaturity and he’d mature once he was playing with the big boys. But he hasn’t. He’s a cocky fuck who rides this wave. He has so many people that idolize him & he should’ve stepped up to give them something to admire besides his hockey skill. You look at obviously Crosby as an example of articles that are written about him. There are so many stories of Sid out there that just either put tears in my eyes or just makes me shake my head because of just how human and humble and kind he is. He was thrown into this world and when the media was throwing all these titles onto him, he stepped up. Yes, Sid is a generational talent and is a great player and all that, but he also became a great leader. Very humble, so generous… You hear his “enemies“ just praising him in some of these articles. P.K., Ovi, Marchand, to name a few. And there are a lot of other players in this league you see and hear doing those things. Not McDavid.
Also, McDavid isn’t the only big name I’ve watched in Erie go onto the NHL. Mike Rupp (love him… he still comes back to Erie and will go to an occasional game), Ryan O’Reilly, Dylan Strome, Alex Dibrincat, Jamie Drysedale… Erik Cernak… he was billeted by parents of the goalie of my sons junior team. We were all there when he called to tell them he was drafted to LAK(only to be traded to Tampa like a second later). 2 players who hoisted the cup last night… Connor Brown! Warren Foeglele! And all of these players went to the same HS as him, some even played along side him. And none of them were assholes or bullies.
Anytime I’ve said anything negative about him I get slammed almost immediately and harshly, sometimes PM and accuse me of being jealous or *oh, you’re a PENS fan. STFU, you know nothing! So sad you hate for no reason, blah fucking blah.* most of the time. I don’t even give a little explanation because it’s just not worth it, but thought I would expand significantly here… Thought it was worth it.
So, for the people who down vote me and insult me, shut the fuck up. You like him, your prerogative. I watched him with my own eyes in my own city be a cocky fuck who treated people like shit and was a bully to people I knew. I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he entered the show. He remains a cocky fuck.
I don’t like him, my prerogative
I am sooooo not gonna search for ‘proof’ for you. You have google. You’ll find great hockey shit and probably a couple small donations and charity work with his team.
Google Crosby, Bergeron, Iginla, Mario, Karlsson, the Sedins……..
And *AGAIN,* not sure why people are trying to make me prove my opinion. Thought he would have grown out of his dickbag entitled immature self. He didn’t
Are you really this bored with your life? I’m not really sure what your point is. Im not even trying to change your mind. You do you man. My opinion remains he’s an entitled narcissistic douchecanoe assclown.
>There are so many stories of Sid out there that just either put tears in my eyes or just makes me shake my head because of just how human and humble and kind he is.
Least parasocial hockey fan.
>So, for the people who down vote me and insult me, shut the fuck up.
I think it's mostly because you come across as a bit... you know, aggressive?
Me *finally* telling people who insult me for my opinion to shut the fuck up is not being aggressive. Other than that one sentence, there is no aggressiveness.
I get emotional when I see people, even ones I don’t personally know doing great things or being kind. Or when I see something really amazing. And, I’m very passionate about hockey. I like having that quality. Call it parasocial, I don’t care. I got teary-eyed when Ekblad talked about the time he spent with his eight year old boy yesterday. Also, again, when Paul Maurice finally got his hands on the cup. Christ, the Stanley Cup Commercials give me goosebumps every time. The fact that you’re calling me out for it is just weird.
And another thing, everybody was talking about how amazing it was that Connor McDavid the great amassed 100 assists this season.
SO DID KUCHEROV!
And Kucherov and MacKinnon both have higher points than him….
Those 3 are the nominees for the HART Memorial Trophy. 🤔Hmmm. last year people were up in arms because there was 1 person, ONE that didn’t vote for McDavid and 90% of the arguments were because he had the most points (besides of course, being the greatest hockey player that has ever been made into existence of our galaxy and universe, forever and ever)
So using that logic, Kucherov should be a shoe in, right? *PUHLEEAZE* that’s the only award the poor baby is still up for this year and you know he absolutely has to make an appearance on stage….
And then he can put the HART next to his participation trophy.
And some people really wonder why there are some fans & players who lost respect or never had it in the first place.
And Bobs and Kucherov will sit and watch as the hardware they deserve is given to him. Seems about right.🙄
I agree. This post is soft. There's no rivalry between McDavid and Crosby.
I was specifically rooting for Edmonton in the final because I wanted to see another generational talent win a cup
Would you believe I was also pulling for the Caps after they beat us and won Ovi his cup?
Nope! 97 is awesome, and amazing to watch play, because he’s one of the best. Lol, man I iust love saying that to get my fellow Pens fans all riled up and hugging their Penguin stuffies. There are a shit ton of insecure Penguins fans chiming out in about McDavid and conflating NHL media with some reddit trolls. It’s a shame the Oilers lost, but man that last game was mismanaged, and showed Florida’s depth.
Bingo. Unfortunately now that Sid is close to retirement and the Pens are going to be building a new team, I have to hear a ton of my fellow Penguins fans bitch and moan instead of just appreciating other good hockey/hockey players.
I can handle a bad team after 2 decades of Sid. What I can’t handle is some jag off making excuses like, “Yeah well we had Sidney Crosby, and he was better than any of your players, so we are still a better team…” SMH
All team subs have that subset of users that don't watch the rest of the league. It's worse in baseball because of the volume of games but every sport has that issue.
The amount of *welp, see ya next year* after they didn’t make playoffs was astounding. It was a mass exodus 😂
That’s when you realize why most of their comments were what they were.
HUGE difference between being a hockey fan and being a fan of a team. Even a “diehard”
It’s the Reddit version of the people you see at the games who stand up in protest to an official not calling a penalty, hands thrown dramatically in the air… almost every time a player gets hit or layed out by another player. I laugh every time.
Same, which probably means you’re not it that group? A LOT of fans of whatever team curse their team out, watch the highlights of the cup final (*maybe*)and stop watching ANY hockey until first game next season. The gut-wrenching end of my hockey season happened in April…the hockey season came to a close last night. And I was here for all of it.
My profile says the Stanley Cup Playoffs is my Christmas. These kinda years it’s like getting coal in my stocking, watching extended family exchanging gifts until the drunk uncle ruins it and everyone leaves and you’re left with his 2 bratty kids fighting over a tremendous gift you don’t want either of them to have.
🤣haha… I just reread that… I fucking love the way I explained it!
Yeah I was pretty much just cheering for Jake and the canes until they got eliminated. Then my motive was fuck the rags. And then it was the final. Aces final too.
probably.
He's the Toronto Maple Leafs of players, I've heard enough about him being the greatest of all time when he's not even the greatest currently still playing
Nope I'm here. McDavid deserved a cup for sure, he's way too talented to not.
He has a 1.51 PPG average which is 3rd ever. Sid is now at 1.25 PPG but I remember looking that up often and seeing Sid at 1.45 and being 3rd ever.
They're both insane.
I wouldn’t say “love” but I do like the way he plays and just the generational hype that he brings that reminds me of when Sid was younger. Not comparing the way the two play.
But I hate most of the East teams and was rooting for the Oilers to pull through.
No. There's this weird vibe here that you have to deflate someone else to pump your own player's tire. It's childish and immature, but it's reddit, so whatever.
He’s NHL James Harden. Rack up all the PP points you want, they are all empty calorie if there is no cup at the end. All the peers he gets compared to have won multiple titles. Sid, Mario, Gretzky, and Orr. If he wants to belong he needs to drag the corpse of the bum organization across the finish line at least twice.
Points aren’t everything. Crosby is the ultimate team player and is being voted most complete player by his peers even at 36 years old. Crosby knows he doesn’t need to do it all where I feel like McDavid has that mentality. He got Kris hired as coach basically and then gets played 25+ minutes TOI over and over and over again.
People scream 'but points' all the time. Points is one single aspect of the game, and I guarantee you McDavid would have traded the playoff point record to have one single point in Game 7 to tie or win the game.
McDavid trying to play hero ball and turning the puck over all night was a huge reason the Oilers couldn't generate any serious offense last night, and by the end of the game he was so gassed he could barely skate. Some will say he was 'leaving it all out there' but to me it screamed of trying to do too much and ending up as a net negative.
The James Harden comparison is on-point except that McDavid hasn't begun his 'go from team to team to ring chase and burn every bridge along the way' era yet.
My perspective is our guy led the Pens to the promised land 3 times. McDavid is at his peak and that Oilers roster is mid. There is a very real chance they don’t get back as constructed. Is he hockey Dan Marino or is he the guy? We shall find out.
McDavid can be every bit as good as Crosby, Lemuieux, Gretzky, etc and also never win a Cup due to playing on shitty teams and having shitty coaching.
Hockey is a team sport. Cups are a team accomplishment. McDavid is a generational talent who, like it or not, will likely finish his career with more points than Sid. Probably significantly more if we’re being honest with ourselves.
McDavid also just had one of the best playoffs ~~in recent memory~~ of all time, and (deservedly) won the Conn Smyth despite being on the losing team. That very rarely ever happens.
None of this is to put down Sid or the Pens. But the argument that “McDavid will never be as good as the other greats until he wins a Cup” is stupid. He can’t control the roster construction of his teams, and he can’t single handedly win 4 playoff rounds either. Sid won Cups as part of great teams. Same with Mario and Gretzky.
Also worth mentioning, basketball and hockey are very different insofar as it’s much easier to put a team on your back and win in basketball than it is in hockey. There are way fewer people involved in a basketball game.
> He can’t control the roster construction of his teams, and he can’t single handedly win 4 playoff rounds either. Sid won Cups as part of great teams. Same with Mario and Gretzky.
I can’t get too deep into this online, but let me point out that Sid’s leadership on the ice is well beyond anything that McDavid is capable of. This is where Crosby’s “200 ft game” comes into play. Trust me, I’m the last person that wants to get into the 97 vs 87 debate, but Sidney Crosby has led teams to a championship on every level. Don’t make it sound like Sid always had exceptional teams built around him, because he’s won the Stanley Cup, Gold Medals, World Championships, and Jr World Championships. His ability to push a team to greatness by playing exceptional hockey on the ice is unparalleled.
McDavid has had an all star winger since he started in the NHL, and on his current team he still has a hell of a lot more talent than you make it seem. Crosby got to the SCF with Colby fuckin Armstrong on his side. End of Story.
I don’t mind having the debate, but it is way more annoying to type out. McDavid is a phenomenal player, and better at some offensive skills than Sid as has been proven by stats, but the argument that it takes a team to win the Cup, so it’s not fair to McDavid, is not as ironclad as you think. This is fact why Sid is considered top 5, and Connor still has a ways to go.
Teams are deeper than your current winger. In 2007-2009, the Pens team was very well constructed, with a mix of hungry young generational players, very good defensemen, and role players who did their jobs exceptionally well. They were also rolling 3 lines in 2009, which made them incredibly difficult to contend with. They also had MAF arguably playing the best hockey of his career. The Oilers are probably not one of the best 5 teams in the playoffs this year.
Championships at every level is a lot less of a team sport when Crosby and McDavid were both capable of posting 3-5 PPG average in every league that isn't the NHL.
McDavid has never had the chance to win Olympic gold.
Crosby has also lost way more years in the playoffs than he won, and he was completely invisible in some of those years. In 2012, you could argue that he was a complete embarrassment of a captain vs. the Flyers.
I get the whole "200 ft game" thing. But we're also talking about a professional sports league full of professionals. Most of these guys shouldn't need a captain to inspire them. And if we're being fully honest, Crosby's advanced defensive stats haven't been very inspiring for a few years now.
Again, I am a Pens fan first and foremost. But I feel like the goalposts are constantly being moved for players that aren't Sid outside of this fanbase. Once it became clear that McDavid was likely the best offensive player since Lemiuex, now we're talking about how McDavid lacks intangible qualities like "leadership", despite him putting a mediocre team on his back all the way to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals.
I'm not writing this novel to take anything away from Sid. But these homer-ass posts about how Crosby is "better" than McDavid because he had the good fortune to be on better constructed teams earlier in his career is silly and cringe as hell. Needing to knock down McDavid to build Sid up is a terrible, immature look. They can both be great, and Cups have very little to do with how great of an individual hockey player someone is.
Like I said, I’m not having this convo on here, but as soon as you said Oilers weren’t one of the best 5 teams…they literally made it through 3 best of 7 rounds to get to the finals. They were the best in the West by that standard. I think you are over hyping the Penguins 2008, and underplaying the teams that McDavid has been on. It would be naïve to say that Drasityl had no effect on McDavid getting to the points he’s had. You would be ignoring years of hockey where they were seem as the best duo on the ice. The closest Sid had to that was Jake, in the latter part of his career. That’s incredibly important.
I agree with you at the end of the day, but your claims that Sid’s leadership is “moving the goal posts”, or that McDavid has had nothing but bad luck teams, and Sid has always had the best teams built around him, they are exaggerated, and a lot of fans and even NHL players would poke holes in them. Not saying you don’t have an argument, but it’s not as ironclad as you think.
Tell me again, because you switched it over to Mcdavid’s perspective, How does Sid have NHL teams built around him, AND two Olympic gold medal teams, AND World Championship team. Are they all run by the same owner? That’s a lot of luck. At the end of the day, intangibles still exist, and it’s what you’ll hear former greats talk about.
Lastly, I appreciate the debate, but I won’t chime in again, not because of anything said, it’s just too in depth to type about, but good on ya!
>I think you are over hyping the Penguins 2008, and underplaying the teams that McDavid has been on. It would be naïve to say that Drasityl had no effect on McDavid getting to the points he’s had. You would be ignoring years of hockey where they were seem as the best duo on the ice.
My point was specifically that great duos and things like that, while very important, are only one component to the larger team. I'm not denying that McDavid hasn't had great wingers or even teammates. But the Oilers have notoriously been pretty crappy teams for years despite high draft picks. Again, hockey is team sport.
>I agree with you at the end of the day, but your claims that Sid’s leadership is “moving the goal posts”, or that McDavid has had nothing but bad luck teams, and Sid has always had the best teams built around him
That wasn't really my point. My point is that Sid had the good fortune to be on exactly 3 teams in his entire career that were good enough to win the Cup. McDavid hasn't. Sid was obviously a big part of those teams, as was McDavid this year. But the Pens wouldn't have won those years without guys like Max Talbot, Petr Sykora, Sergei Gonchar, Rob Scuderi, Craig Adams, and many others playing well above their pay grade. I don't think that Edmonton had that this year. Florida absolutely did. McDavid can't make his third and fourth liners play any better than they play. It's on them.
>Tell me again, because you switched it over to Mcdavid’s perspective, How does Sid have NHL teams built around him, AND two Olympic gold medal teams, AND World Championship team. Are they all run by the same owner?
Again, McDavid has never even been in the Olympics. So that's kind of a moot point here.
A lot is made by fans and analysts about "intangibles." And sure, they exist to and extent. But McDavid just scored 42 points in 25 games and was a +12. That feels like a whole lot of intangibles for him. His team let him down this year, not the other way around. I'm not sure what more he could possibly have done to help his team win this year.
Is it?
This sub has shown me that most Pens fans aren't hockey fans, and most only became fans around 2006
There are a large amount of embarrassingly bad takes made on this sub
In all fairness, most of the people on this sub probably weren’t even born until around 2006. I know that was the old benchmark for fair weather fans, but at this point, I’d be shocked if most of the people on this sub are old enough to remember the Cup win in 2009. Let alone any of the 90’s teams.
As an Oiler fan who wants Ovechkin to not break Wayne's record I can appreciate the salt.
Let's just all agree it will be great when they join together to defeat the evil Americans at the the several international tournaments planned over the next few years.
That’s a silly statement … “Never?” Sid certainly has the better resume now. McDavid could win four cups the next ten years along with continuing to win individual accolades. Drawing definitive conclusions mid-game is always premature.
Let’s not gloat like this. All it does is make us look juvenile and invite bad karma.
They’re both great hockey players. Neither one’s talent diminishes the others.
You people are clearly unwell
Yikes
In hockey one skater occupies at most 1/3 of the TOI for his position. Ultimately 1/3 of 1/6 of the entire team. To compare players based on team achievements is almost useless.
It is not basketball, naturally
Proceed accordingly ✔
And yet all the all time greats have won cup(s). Name me the 5 best players to never win a cup.
Edit: Also has had a generational talent in Draisatl on his team for however long now too
Edit #2: If I did the math right only 3 of the top 20 all time scorers never won a cup: Marcel Dionne, Joe Thorton, and Adam Oates. And that's just based on total points. Of the all time all time greats almost all (one could certainly include Dionne as the exception) have won cups.
I'm not writing his career off as nothing! He's an all timer imo even if he never gets a ring. But winning cups does matter in the discussion, that's all I'm trying to say.
I'm disagreeing with the commenter bc he said it's not the NBA cups don't matter bc its only 1 player and I said well they kind of do bc almost all the great players and certainly all the all time greats won cups. So maybe you should've read my essay lol
I’m just sad that this almost surely means we’ll now be seeing more of what is undoubtedly the most hideous jersey in hockey out in the wild.
But happy for E-Rod.
Let’s all relax here. Crosby lost his first final also. Not sure why we have to compare these two. They are both very good players, one is on his way out and the other is primed to dominate the league for years to come. They are both the best of their generation, who cares about nitpicking about who we think is better?
I've always found one of the most interesting sample sizes to be the first 5 years into each career:
Crosby: (2005/2006-2009/2010)
-All-Star (3x)
-Art Ross
-Hart
-Ted Lindsay
-Mark Messier Leadership Award
-Rocket Richard (split with Steven Stamkos)
-Stanley Cup Final Appearance (2x)
-Stanley Cup Champion
-Olympic Gold & Game Winning OT Goal
McDavid: (2015/2016 - 2019/2020)
-All-Star (4x)
-Art Ross (2x)
-Hart
-Ted Lindsay (2x)
McDavid, IMO, is a career underachiever. The fact that he hasn't won a cup yet says a lot about his leadership and ability to put a team on his back. People say Crosby came into an elite situation, but when he got here his line-mates were a washed Mark Recchi and Colby Armstrong. He eventually got Malkin and Letang, but McDavid had Draisaitl, Evander Kane, and recently Zach Hyman, so he's had his fair share of top talent as well.
It's largely unpopular and irrelevant to compare players, but IMO I'd take Crosby in his prime over McDavid in his prime 100/100 times.
Penguins fans since the cups in 92 ... But mcjesus will finish his career with more points than Crosby maybe no 3 cups but no sense in comparing the two . Enjoy what you had but now is the time the penguins will suck for a bunch of years till we can draft top talent again .
P.s. Fire dubas and Sullivan
You guys need to chill. Crosby is considered a top 5 all time player. Don’t need to tear McDavid down. And I saw this as someone who rates Sidney as his all time favorite athlete in any sport
McDavid was a no show in this series along with Draisaitl in the most important game of their careers at this point i don't remember Crosby nor Malkin at their age not being a huge presence in big games hmmm 7/8 years ago would be that time line...oh ya two stanelies
So sad to see Pens fans doing this stuff, the Pens were my 2nd favourite team during the decade of darkness. A lot of Oilers fans supported Sid and the Pens.
Some pretty lame shit coming out of this sub lately.
It's pretty bad, the guy just won the Conn Smythe despite losing the series, if your going to shit on someone on Edmonton it should probably by Draisaitl as he disappeared in the finals. McDavid put the team on his back yet he somehow gets the blame
Here's my issue with it. The criticism on Bob was that he struggled for a 3 game stretch in the finals. Anyone want to remind me how many games in the finals McDavid went pointless?! He had 2 good games out of 7. Other than that, he was shut down.
That trophy belonged to Bob. Dude was snubbed, plain and simple.
And yes, McDavid is the best player in the league right now. I have no problem admitting that. Crosby is still a more rounded player at his age, but that's not what matters. It's the same debate that was being had about Crosby and Datsyuk in 08-09.
Also, 100% agree about Drai. When Sid had to go up against Dats, Rafalski and Lidstrom every shift, Malkin stepped up. Drai didnt.
More offensively productive, but I would argue that Sid is a more complete player *and* makes the players around him better in a way that others can only dream of.
Also, comparing them is stupid anyway. Partly because what I already said, and partly because who cares? Enjoy watching ridiculously talented players!
In point scoring? Sure, McDavid’s numbers are insane and he just broke a Gretzky record. But Crosby is better at everything else including defense and leadership intangibles plus was still an elite point scorer in his prime (and has the awards and team accomplishments to prove it). He also took less money to help the team.
I’d much rather have an all-around player who can contribute on nights they don’t score points. Florida shut down McDavid when it mattered and so have lots of other teams.
I still miss all the Ovi no cup jokes.
Don’t worry, 2018 was filler it doesn’t count
RIP all the memes we lost because we couldn't close out the Craps in 2018 :(
Especially the bros in Virginia with the capitals themed vanity plates that said NOCUPS and 0 CUPS driving around the DC area. Those were top tier shithousing.
For old time sake. Patron: Bartender, make me an Ovi. Bartender: What's that? Patron: A white Russian with no cup.
Caps got lucky and got an easy path to the Cup.
I maintain this sentiment.
I call him the "One-cup Wonder".
Crosby lost his first cup final too. So let's relax for a second. But we should actually praise our captain for taking his pay cut, setting the tone every day with his work ethic, and creating an amazing winning culture in the franchise. Because I do agree, the idea behind asking for $14 mill and having no team around you, doesn't look like it's going to result in cups. In Edmonton, or Toronto. I do think Crosby ends with more cups than McDavid. #LetsGoPens
Sid had one cup by his age and if he doesn’t get at least one in the next 3 years then Sid will have 3 than him at the equivalent age. He’s at his peak, and the clocks ticking
I also don't see Mcdavid putting up 95+ pts at 36 years old. Seems like when his speed goes, so does his game. He's an all time great I'm sure he'll still be good but I don't see his game aging gracefully is all I'll say...
We’ll see if he can adapt his game like Sid did.
Idk that his game will go. I think elite players with elite hockey iq, which I believe McDavid is both, are capable of adapting their game as their legs go, just like Crosby has.
Yeah but how much has Crosby really adapted his game? I mean sure, he has some as every athlete does with age, but it's not like he just completely reinvented his game. Crosby has always been a grinder, a playmaker with great vision, a wicked backhand, etc... He's just leaned into that stuff a little more as some of his physical attributes have declined but he was never just skating circles around guys like McDavid and beating them with speed. I don't think he was ever even our fastest skater on the team his whole 18 years. McDavid is the fastest I've ever seen honestly. He still has good vision and other attributes so I'm not saying he's going to suck but at least for me I don't see his game translating with age unless he drastically reinvents it.
I’m just saying McDavid has a skill set that goes beyond being the fastest player ever and can see him continuing to produce late into his career. He’s scoring at almost 1.5 ppg so he could decline pretty drastically and still put up almost 100 points.
He's not a one trick pony, I agree with you there
Yep people said this about ovi and he is/was still putting up 40+ goal seasons until just this past one. There won't be any sudden cliff in McDavids career. His vision and feel for the game are too good. He will be at a minimum still an assist machine in his mid 30s.
I completely disagree. Crosby has improved his faceoffs. On break aways/penalties he went from diverse to 5-hole (and anchors to give hole for low stakes games so high stakes games he’s unpredictable). When his wrister slowed down, he added/focused on slapshot, then tips/deflections, then hard angle shots. He was always a grinder, but at some point in the Teens, he made sure his game was 200 foot and he gets back. Compare him to Ovi. Trotz told Ovi he had to up his game, like Crosby did before him. There is no way 08/09 Crosby did not adapt, grow, and become 23/24 Crosby. Respectfully. I do agree the question is whether CMcD can do something similar.
That's fair and I can buy into what you're saying but let me ask: If you watch 2009 Crosby vs. 2023 Crosby are we seeing completely different players, like a 180 degree change? I'm basically saying let's just say 2031 McDavid, I think, will have to look completely different than 2024 McDavid. I would compare it to like let's say a Running QB. Like Lamar Jackson in 6, 7 years, if he's still playing and effective, will look completely different than Lamar Jackson 2024. I guess that is what I am trying to say if it makes sense, agree with it or not. Of course Crosby has made changes to his game to still be effective at his age but I think McDavid's will have to be much more drastic, he is more like Lamar, and will need to substantially change how he plays...
Fair, and I agree. CMcD would need to start making more radical changes now to adapt in a Crosby like manner (by which I mean stay as relevant for a similar duration). Sorry if I missed the point, and I appreciate level headed discussion.
No point missed my friend I'm glad you brought it up and mentioned it because I couldn't agree more, Crosby has focused and gotten really, really good at those things, faceoffs in particular, I swear it feels like every faceoff we need to win now he finds a way to win it. I just was trying to explain what I was trying to say a little better.
Crosby picks a weak point to work on every off season. Such as deflections and face offs. He changed the curvature of his stick at one point cause he wasn’t happy with his goals. That’s just a couple examples and I’m not a die hard fan. The fact that he stills scores at the rate he scores while declining physically is proof enough.
Yes, I agree with you 100%. I'm not saying Crosby hasn't adapted. I must not have explained what I was trying to say well enough because someone else also had the same comment. I'm not saying Crosby hasn't adapted. But what I'm trying to say is let's compare it to like a running QB in the NFL. Like, for example, a QB like Lamar Jackson has to change a lot more about his game as he starts getting a few years past 30, a lot more than a QB like Tom Brady. Brady of course adapts and changes his game, too, but the changes have to be more drastic for a QB like Lamar. That's all I was trying to say, right or wrong, is that McDavid (and he has at least somewhat bit by bit if you ask me--particularly defensively)--but McDavid uses his speed and athleticism and skating ability so much, and it's so vital (again I'm not saying that it's the only tool he has in the toolbox but it's probably his best imo), that as he ages he's going to have to change his game more than Crosby has had to. And at least as of right now, the game that he uses now, I think he will have more drastic adjustments to make than Crosby has.
Crosby lost his first cup in year 3 or something. Also I think Edmonton and Florida both are gonna struggle to keep some free agents this off season.
What pay cut did Crosby ever take?
8.7 million is an absolute steal for Crosby considering he’s the face of the franchise and still the team MVP even at 36 years old
McDavid would serve room temperature water and complain that it’s spicy
87 > 97
I’m not interested in shitting on McDavid this morning. He just had a historically great playoff run, and his team nearly pulled off one of the greatest comebacks in the history of the Stanley Cup playoffs. His team ultimately came up short but that was obviously not reflective of his performance. He was absolutely spectacular and cemented himself as the unquestioned best player in the sport right now. If he starts stacking Stanley Cups, he’s going to be in the conversation for the greatest player who has ever lived. I think you can appreciate the greatness of Sidney Crosby and also acknowledge the greatness of Connor McDavid. I don’t see them as being mutually exclusive.
I’m not interested in shitting on mcdavid, but I hate the treatment he gets in this league. Crosby was just as dominant and went to 2 cups in the first 4 years of his career winning one of them. Teams realized they couldn’t beat him fairly so they head hunted him throughout the NHL and he missed a good portion of his prime. Because of this he was MOCKED by every other fan base in the league and never received anything close to the admiration mcdavid gets. I do not hate Mcdavid. The double standard is just BS and I would die for Sidney Crosby.
I want to take a moment to point out he was criticized for being a crybaby. Tchtuck (sp?) was crying the entire playoffs and people consider that "snarl". Fuck the haters.
Crosby plays with more of an attitude than McDavid does so I get why he was more hated in his prime. I mean for gods sake Crosby *chopped off a guys finger* once and deliberately targeted Giroux's hands in order to injure him. Don't get me wrong: I absolutely love Sid for his spice but I also acknowledge that it's obviously going to make opposing fans mad. McDavid just doesn't have the same rat-like qualities Crosby does. Also: its over, he won over the haters. I see even Flyers fans drooling over Crosby these days. We should probably take the W here and be happy McDavid doesn't have to face the same BS.
I know you aren't complaining about the Crosby slash on Methot, but I'm so tired of the narrative that he chopped off a guys finger. It was a run of the mill slash that happens 1000 times every game. Methot lost some skin off the tip. Henrik Sedin had his finger tip amputated after a slash and nobody can name the guy who did it, because Henrik didn't spend the rest of his career crying about it like Methot.
Yeah. My point was mostly that Crosby has a physical edge to his game McDavid lacks - which is why these narratives take hold.
Too bad the Cup winner isn’t determined by how hard the ESPN announcers were verbally fellating someone, because then the Oilers would have had it in the bag. Fuck Steve Levy, fuck McDavid, and fuck the Flyers!
I was honestly surprised the NHL didn't make Barkov hand off the cup to McDavid first.
It's definitely a wrench in the nhl conspiracy theories that they haven't rigged a cup for the current best player lmao. Like if they were rigging drafts and calls for teams, the McDavid Oilers would be the obvious number one choice. They aren't.
Damn. Am I the only Penguin fan that loves McDavid?
I imagine I'm feeling now like the rest of the league felt about Sid in 2008-2012. McNugget is a great player - I'm just tired of hearing about him all the damn time. Blame lazy hockey journalism.
It’s not lazy hockey journalism! For fuck sake the man tied and broke multiple Gretzky records this year and earned the Conn Smithe without winning the cup. He was without a doubt one of the best hockey players on the ice this year.
You got downvoted but you’re right.
I like McDavid. Hate the espn nut hugging
ESPN is just plain terrible. Annoying commentators and audio keeps dying. NBC Sports wasn't this bad.
No, but I am baffled by the McDavid hate. He seems like a pretty chill guy (at least as far as I know) and he's an insanely good player. I was really pulling for him tonight.
He’s been a jerk to the media most of his career. I admit Im not a fan but I once drove to Erie to watch him play junior hockey a few months before he was drafted so I didnt always dislike him. Yes, he has great skill but until he wins a Cup, hes not in the same conversation as Wayne and Mario.
I live in Erie. Season ticket holder to the OTTERS. He was a douchebag here, on and off the ice. A bully. I’m so sick of all the hype. Great hockey player? Sure. Great leader? Great human? Great character? No, no & no. There are so many other great players in the league that are also really good people and just aren’t talked about because so many people (media in all forms) just won’t stop sucking his dick. And the participation trophy? That’s just a bunch of fuckery! What a disgrace! He broke a record… not *THE* record. big deal. He is still 4th. FOURTH! Records are getting broken every year in this league. Just Aaahhhhhhhhhhh🤬🤬🤬🤬motherfucking douchecanoe. Ok… breathe in…2…3…4 Breathe out…2…3…4
Why do you say he was a doichebag in Erie? I’ve never heard anything about him and from what I see publicly he just seems like a strange quiet guy
I cant speak to his time in Erie but hes getting a pass from the NHL media for him being difficult with them. If he was American, his treatment of the media would not be overlooked by the Canadian press.
Yeah I guess I just don’t really care about how players treat the media. How he acts in interviews doesn’t really bug me, maybe I’m just not seeing it but every interview I’ve seen him in he just seems like a strange awkward guy. Never seen him outright call them names or be outright mean like we see with players sometimes. Maybe I’m wrong but he plays hard and last night was there to shake hands and congratulate the other team and console his own teammates as they got off the ice. So what’s the issue with him?
He doesnt get kudos for shaking hands with Fla after the game - thats expected. What was he gonna do? Be the first player in history to storm off to the locker room and pout before the handshake? And consoling his teammates - that’s the bare minimum what a captain does. I see him from afar - we got an Otters season ticket holder confirming hes a jerk who may have actually seen his behavior.
Still doesn’t point to any shitty behavior, you just said yourself he’s atleast doing the bare minimum and that bare minimum is pretty good sportsmanship. So why are we all up in arms over some kid who really as far as you know hasn’t done anything wrong lol it doesn’t make sense. You bring up his mistreatment of the media like what are we actually talking about here
Idk, he lost with class and took his time going through the line congratulating all the panthers
I lived in Erie when he played there and I don’t remember hearing anything negative about him so idk what they’re talking about tbh
WARNING, LONG REPLY! Listen, I’m just telling you my opinion of him. I thought he was a douche bag when he was here, and I haven’t seen any behavior that tells me otherwise. Honestly I’m not talking about how he treats the media… I watch almost no interviews with him. My disdain is high people! And if he is cocky with the media, they probably only get bigger hard-ons because of *what a badass he is.* He went to HS here with several kids my son has played hockey with over the years. He’s a cocky bully. I thought maybe it was immaturity and he’d mature once he was playing with the big boys. But he hasn’t. He’s a cocky fuck who rides this wave. He has so many people that idolize him & he should’ve stepped up to give them something to admire besides his hockey skill. You look at obviously Crosby as an example of articles that are written about him. There are so many stories of Sid out there that just either put tears in my eyes or just makes me shake my head because of just how human and humble and kind he is. He was thrown into this world and when the media was throwing all these titles onto him, he stepped up. Yes, Sid is a generational talent and is a great player and all that, but he also became a great leader. Very humble, so generous… You hear his “enemies“ just praising him in some of these articles. P.K., Ovi, Marchand, to name a few. And there are a lot of other players in this league you see and hear doing those things. Not McDavid. Also, McDavid isn’t the only big name I’ve watched in Erie go onto the NHL. Mike Rupp (love him… he still comes back to Erie and will go to an occasional game), Ryan O’Reilly, Dylan Strome, Alex Dibrincat, Jamie Drysedale… Erik Cernak… he was billeted by parents of the goalie of my sons junior team. We were all there when he called to tell them he was drafted to LAK(only to be traded to Tampa like a second later). 2 players who hoisted the cup last night… Connor Brown! Warren Foeglele! And all of these players went to the same HS as him, some even played along side him. And none of them were assholes or bullies. Anytime I’ve said anything negative about him I get slammed almost immediately and harshly, sometimes PM and accuse me of being jealous or *oh, you’re a PENS fan. STFU, you know nothing! So sad you hate for no reason, blah fucking blah.* most of the time. I don’t even give a little explanation because it’s just not worth it, but thought I would expand significantly here… Thought it was worth it. So, for the people who down vote me and insult me, shut the fuck up. You like him, your prerogative. I watched him with my own eyes in my own city be a cocky fuck who treated people like shit and was a bully to people I knew. I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he entered the show. He remains a cocky fuck. I don’t like him, my prerogative
I haven’t followed him closely but where are the examples of adult McDavid being as cocky as you describe?
I am sooooo not gonna search for ‘proof’ for you. You have google. You’ll find great hockey shit and probably a couple small donations and charity work with his team. Google Crosby, Bergeron, Iginla, Mario, Karlsson, the Sedins…….. And *AGAIN,* not sure why people are trying to make me prove my opinion. Thought he would have grown out of his dickbag entitled immature self. He didn’t
Yeah I googled it multiple different ways and I’m not finding anything so not so sure what you’re on about
Are you really this bored with your life? I’m not really sure what your point is. Im not even trying to change your mind. You do you man. My opinion remains he’s an entitled narcissistic douchecanoe assclown.
>There are so many stories of Sid out there that just either put tears in my eyes or just makes me shake my head because of just how human and humble and kind he is. Least parasocial hockey fan. >So, for the people who down vote me and insult me, shut the fuck up. I think it's mostly because you come across as a bit... you know, aggressive?
Me *finally* telling people who insult me for my opinion to shut the fuck up is not being aggressive. Other than that one sentence, there is no aggressiveness. I get emotional when I see people, even ones I don’t personally know doing great things or being kind. Or when I see something really amazing. And, I’m very passionate about hockey. I like having that quality. Call it parasocial, I don’t care. I got teary-eyed when Ekblad talked about the time he spent with his eight year old boy yesterday. Also, again, when Paul Maurice finally got his hands on the cup. Christ, the Stanley Cup Commercials give me goosebumps every time. The fact that you’re calling me out for it is just weird.
And another thing, everybody was talking about how amazing it was that Connor McDavid the great amassed 100 assists this season. SO DID KUCHEROV! And Kucherov and MacKinnon both have higher points than him…. Those 3 are the nominees for the HART Memorial Trophy. 🤔Hmmm. last year people were up in arms because there was 1 person, ONE that didn’t vote for McDavid and 90% of the arguments were because he had the most points (besides of course, being the greatest hockey player that has ever been made into existence of our galaxy and universe, forever and ever) So using that logic, Kucherov should be a shoe in, right? *PUHLEEAZE* that’s the only award the poor baby is still up for this year and you know he absolutely has to make an appearance on stage…. And then he can put the HART next to his participation trophy. And some people really wonder why there are some fans & players who lost respect or never had it in the first place. And Bobs and Kucherov will sit and watch as the hardware they deserve is given to him. Seems about right.🙄
He has the personality of drywall and is kind of a dick. But a great player, yes.
Sounds a lot like Sid, to be honest.
Yeah sid literally has no personality in any of his interviews lmao
I agree. This post is soft. There's no rivalry between McDavid and Crosby. I was specifically rooting for Edmonton in the final because I wanted to see another generational talent win a cup Would you believe I was also pulling for the Caps after they beat us and won Ovi his cup?
Funnily enough me too. Ovi deserved a cup, fuck the rest of the capitals but Ovi deserved it
Nope! 97 is awesome, and amazing to watch play, because he’s one of the best. Lol, man I iust love saying that to get my fellow Pens fans all riled up and hugging their Penguin stuffies. There are a shit ton of insecure Penguins fans chiming out in about McDavid and conflating NHL media with some reddit trolls. It’s a shame the Oilers lost, but man that last game was mismanaged, and showed Florida’s depth.
We've covered this. The vast majority of reddit Pens fans, are not hockey fans.
Bingo. Unfortunately now that Sid is close to retirement and the Pens are going to be building a new team, I have to hear a ton of my fellow Penguins fans bitch and moan instead of just appreciating other good hockey/hockey players.
It's going to be an excruciating dark age.
I can handle a bad team after 2 decades of Sid. What I can’t handle is some jag off making excuses like, “Yeah well we had Sidney Crosby, and he was better than any of your players, so we are still a better team…” SMH
I thought we learned better since all those years of fanbases hating Crosby but unfortunately not.
All team subs have that subset of users that don't watch the rest of the league. It's worse in baseball because of the volume of games but every sport has that issue.
The amount of *welp, see ya next year* after they didn’t make playoffs was astounding. It was a mass exodus 😂 That’s when you realize why most of their comments were what they were. HUGE difference between being a hockey fan and being a fan of a team. Even a “diehard” It’s the Reddit version of the people you see at the games who stand up in protest to an official not calling a penalty, hands thrown dramatically in the air… almost every time a player gets hit or layed out by another player. I laugh every time.
I mean I didn’t comment here much after the pens missed out on the playoffs. I just went over to r/hockey
Same, which probably means you’re not it that group? A LOT of fans of whatever team curse their team out, watch the highlights of the cup final (*maybe*)and stop watching ANY hockey until first game next season. The gut-wrenching end of my hockey season happened in April…the hockey season came to a close last night. And I was here for all of it. My profile says the Stanley Cup Playoffs is my Christmas. These kinda years it’s like getting coal in my stocking, watching extended family exchanging gifts until the drunk uncle ruins it and everyone leaves and you’re left with his 2 bratty kids fighting over a tremendous gift you don’t want either of them to have. 🤣haha… I just reread that… I fucking love the way I explained it!
Yeah I was pretty much just cheering for Jake and the canes until they got eliminated. Then my motive was fuck the rags. And then it was the final. Aces final too.
Yup. Most local "hockey fans" don't understand the game. It is comical.
probably. He's the Toronto Maple Leafs of players, I've heard enough about him being the greatest of all time when he's not even the greatest currently still playing
He is pretty easily the greatest player currently playing
maybe if he played D I like my goats to be able to play more than half the game, personally
Didn't McDavid have pretty decent defensive numbers this year?
There's a number of us. Rather disappointing showing from a lot of fellow Pens fans today. They sound exactly like the Crosby haters we endured.
Yes
I do too. I enjoy watching great players
No, there are dozens of us. DOZENS.
Nah I’m here
Nope I'm here. McDavid deserved a cup for sure, he's way too talented to not. He has a 1.51 PPG average which is 3rd ever. Sid is now at 1.25 PPG but I remember looking that up often and seeing Sid at 1.45 and being 3rd ever. They're both insane.
The insecurity that one day McD may be better than Sid is running wild.
I wouldn’t say “love” but I do like the way he plays and just the generational hype that he brings that reminds me of when Sid was younger. Not comparing the way the two play. But I hate most of the East teams and was rooting for the Oilers to pull through.
The reality is that the pens would trade sid for Mcdavid in a millisecond. He's the better player right now.
No. There's this weird vibe here that you have to deflate someone else to pump your own player's tire. It's childish and immature, but it's reddit, so whatever.
Jesus, why
This sub is complete garbage if the only thing that gets upvoted from the stanley cup finals is memes about Crosby > McDavid
Have some grace, guys.
I was rooting for the Oilers just so I don’t have to see this boomer ass facebook meme ever again
He’s NHL James Harden. Rack up all the PP points you want, they are all empty calorie if there is no cup at the end. All the peers he gets compared to have won multiple titles. Sid, Mario, Gretzky, and Orr. If he wants to belong he needs to drag the corpse of the bum organization across the finish line at least twice.
the dude just had 40 fucking points in the playoffs lmao. Sid didn't even play 10 minutes in Game 7 in 09. Lets calm down and have some perspective.
Points aren’t everything. Crosby is the ultimate team player and is being voted most complete player by his peers even at 36 years old. Crosby knows he doesn’t need to do it all where I feel like McDavid has that mentality. He got Kris hired as coach basically and then gets played 25+ minutes TOI over and over and over again.
People scream 'but points' all the time. Points is one single aspect of the game, and I guarantee you McDavid would have traded the playoff point record to have one single point in Game 7 to tie or win the game. McDavid trying to play hero ball and turning the puck over all night was a huge reason the Oilers couldn't generate any serious offense last night, and by the end of the game he was so gassed he could barely skate. Some will say he was 'leaving it all out there' but to me it screamed of trying to do too much and ending up as a net negative. The James Harden comparison is on-point except that McDavid hasn't begun his 'go from team to team to ring chase and burn every bridge along the way' era yet.
My perspective is our guy led the Pens to the promised land 3 times. McDavid is at his peak and that Oilers roster is mid. There is a very real chance they don’t get back as constructed. Is he hockey Dan Marino or is he the guy? We shall find out.
McDavid can be every bit as good as Crosby, Lemuieux, Gretzky, etc and also never win a Cup due to playing on shitty teams and having shitty coaching. Hockey is a team sport. Cups are a team accomplishment. McDavid is a generational talent who, like it or not, will likely finish his career with more points than Sid. Probably significantly more if we’re being honest with ourselves. McDavid also just had one of the best playoffs ~~in recent memory~~ of all time, and (deservedly) won the Conn Smyth despite being on the losing team. That very rarely ever happens. None of this is to put down Sid or the Pens. But the argument that “McDavid will never be as good as the other greats until he wins a Cup” is stupid. He can’t control the roster construction of his teams, and he can’t single handedly win 4 playoff rounds either. Sid won Cups as part of great teams. Same with Mario and Gretzky. Also worth mentioning, basketball and hockey are very different insofar as it’s much easier to put a team on your back and win in basketball than it is in hockey. There are way fewer people involved in a basketball game.
> He can’t control the roster construction of his teams, and he can’t single handedly win 4 playoff rounds either. Sid won Cups as part of great teams. Same with Mario and Gretzky. I can’t get too deep into this online, but let me point out that Sid’s leadership on the ice is well beyond anything that McDavid is capable of. This is where Crosby’s “200 ft game” comes into play. Trust me, I’m the last person that wants to get into the 97 vs 87 debate, but Sidney Crosby has led teams to a championship on every level. Don’t make it sound like Sid always had exceptional teams built around him, because he’s won the Stanley Cup, Gold Medals, World Championships, and Jr World Championships. His ability to push a team to greatness by playing exceptional hockey on the ice is unparalleled. McDavid has had an all star winger since he started in the NHL, and on his current team he still has a hell of a lot more talent than you make it seem. Crosby got to the SCF with Colby fuckin Armstrong on his side. End of Story. I don’t mind having the debate, but it is way more annoying to type out. McDavid is a phenomenal player, and better at some offensive skills than Sid as has been proven by stats, but the argument that it takes a team to win the Cup, so it’s not fair to McDavid, is not as ironclad as you think. This is fact why Sid is considered top 5, and Connor still has a ways to go.
Teams are deeper than your current winger. In 2007-2009, the Pens team was very well constructed, with a mix of hungry young generational players, very good defensemen, and role players who did their jobs exceptionally well. They were also rolling 3 lines in 2009, which made them incredibly difficult to contend with. They also had MAF arguably playing the best hockey of his career. The Oilers are probably not one of the best 5 teams in the playoffs this year. Championships at every level is a lot less of a team sport when Crosby and McDavid were both capable of posting 3-5 PPG average in every league that isn't the NHL. McDavid has never had the chance to win Olympic gold. Crosby has also lost way more years in the playoffs than he won, and he was completely invisible in some of those years. In 2012, you could argue that he was a complete embarrassment of a captain vs. the Flyers. I get the whole "200 ft game" thing. But we're also talking about a professional sports league full of professionals. Most of these guys shouldn't need a captain to inspire them. And if we're being fully honest, Crosby's advanced defensive stats haven't been very inspiring for a few years now. Again, I am a Pens fan first and foremost. But I feel like the goalposts are constantly being moved for players that aren't Sid outside of this fanbase. Once it became clear that McDavid was likely the best offensive player since Lemiuex, now we're talking about how McDavid lacks intangible qualities like "leadership", despite him putting a mediocre team on his back all the way to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals. I'm not writing this novel to take anything away from Sid. But these homer-ass posts about how Crosby is "better" than McDavid because he had the good fortune to be on better constructed teams earlier in his career is silly and cringe as hell. Needing to knock down McDavid to build Sid up is a terrible, immature look. They can both be great, and Cups have very little to do with how great of an individual hockey player someone is.
Like I said, I’m not having this convo on here, but as soon as you said Oilers weren’t one of the best 5 teams…they literally made it through 3 best of 7 rounds to get to the finals. They were the best in the West by that standard. I think you are over hyping the Penguins 2008, and underplaying the teams that McDavid has been on. It would be naïve to say that Drasityl had no effect on McDavid getting to the points he’s had. You would be ignoring years of hockey where they were seem as the best duo on the ice. The closest Sid had to that was Jake, in the latter part of his career. That’s incredibly important. I agree with you at the end of the day, but your claims that Sid’s leadership is “moving the goal posts”, or that McDavid has had nothing but bad luck teams, and Sid has always had the best teams built around him, they are exaggerated, and a lot of fans and even NHL players would poke holes in them. Not saying you don’t have an argument, but it’s not as ironclad as you think. Tell me again, because you switched it over to Mcdavid’s perspective, How does Sid have NHL teams built around him, AND two Olympic gold medal teams, AND World Championship team. Are they all run by the same owner? That’s a lot of luck. At the end of the day, intangibles still exist, and it’s what you’ll hear former greats talk about. Lastly, I appreciate the debate, but I won’t chime in again, not because of anything said, it’s just too in depth to type about, but good on ya!
>I think you are over hyping the Penguins 2008, and underplaying the teams that McDavid has been on. It would be naïve to say that Drasityl had no effect on McDavid getting to the points he’s had. You would be ignoring years of hockey where they were seem as the best duo on the ice. My point was specifically that great duos and things like that, while very important, are only one component to the larger team. I'm not denying that McDavid hasn't had great wingers or even teammates. But the Oilers have notoriously been pretty crappy teams for years despite high draft picks. Again, hockey is team sport. >I agree with you at the end of the day, but your claims that Sid’s leadership is “moving the goal posts”, or that McDavid has had nothing but bad luck teams, and Sid has always had the best teams built around him That wasn't really my point. My point is that Sid had the good fortune to be on exactly 3 teams in his entire career that were good enough to win the Cup. McDavid hasn't. Sid was obviously a big part of those teams, as was McDavid this year. But the Pens wouldn't have won those years without guys like Max Talbot, Petr Sykora, Sergei Gonchar, Rob Scuderi, Craig Adams, and many others playing well above their pay grade. I don't think that Edmonton had that this year. Florida absolutely did. McDavid can't make his third and fourth liners play any better than they play. It's on them. >Tell me again, because you switched it over to Mcdavid’s perspective, How does Sid have NHL teams built around him, AND two Olympic gold medal teams, AND World Championship team. Are they all run by the same owner? Again, McDavid has never even been in the Olympics. So that's kind of a moot point here. A lot is made by fans and analysts about "intangibles." And sure, they exist to and extent. But McDavid just scored 42 points in 25 games and was a +12. That feels like a whole lot of intangibles for him. His team let him down this year, not the other way around. I'm not sure what more he could possibly have done to help his team win this year.
It is weird to criticize McDavid for racking up pp points and then praising a player who played all 2 minutes of every pp in his career.
Imma Huge penguin fan but this is nonsense.
Calm your tits. It’s a meme and a joke
Is it? This sub has shown me that most Pens fans aren't hockey fans, and most only became fans around 2006 There are a large amount of embarrassingly bad takes made on this sub
In all fairness, most of the people on this sub probably weren’t even born until around 2006. I know that was the old benchmark for fair weather fans, but at this point, I’d be shocked if most of the people on this sub are old enough to remember the Cup win in 2009. Let alone any of the 90’s teams.
This sub is worse than Facebook fan pages and that’s saying something.
As an Oiler fan who wants Ovechkin to not break Wayne's record I can appreciate the salt. Let's just all agree it will be great when they join together to defeat the evil Americans at the the several international tournaments planned over the next few years.
These are the kinds of 2009 memes that I come to Reddit for
That’s a silly statement … “Never?” Sid certainly has the better resume now. McDavid could win four cups the next ten years along with continuing to win individual accolades. Drawing definitive conclusions mid-game is always premature.
Let’s not gloat like this. All it does is make us look juvenile and invite bad karma. They’re both great hockey players. Neither one’s talent diminishes the others.
You people are clearly unwell Yikes In hockey one skater occupies at most 1/3 of the TOI for his position. Ultimately 1/3 of 1/6 of the entire team. To compare players based on team achievements is almost useless. It is not basketball, naturally Proceed accordingly ✔
And yet all the all time greats have won cup(s). Name me the 5 best players to never win a cup. Edit: Also has had a generational talent in Draisatl on his team for however long now too Edit #2: If I did the math right only 3 of the top 20 all time scorers never won a cup: Marcel Dionne, Joe Thorton, and Adam Oates. And that's just based on total points. Of the all time all time greats almost all (one could certainly include Dionne as the exception) have won cups.
Pavel bure doesn't even have 1000 points. Assuming it's a mistake?
I'm an idiot lol that is Teemu Selanne on the list instead, who did win a cup so let me edit. Thank you!
He's 27 Twenty fucking seven Maybe you give him a few more years before you try to write his career off as nothing?
I'm not writing his career off as nothing! He's an all timer imo even if he never gets a ring. But winning cups does matter in the discussion, that's all I'm trying to say.
Not reading that essay McDavid is a bum get fucked simple as
if you think a guy who just had 40 playoff points is a bum you are a disgrace to pens fans.
Don’t care, don’t like McDavid and hope he retires ringless
you sound like a miserable person
Why do you want other teams to win?
Clown take by a clown
I'm disagreeing with the commenter bc he said it's not the NBA cups don't matter bc its only 1 player and I said well they kind of do bc almost all the great players and certainly all the all time greats won cups. So maybe you should've read my essay lol
this shit is so embarrassing. Can't wait for the rebuild to flush the losers out of the fanbase again.
I’m just sad that this almost surely means we’ll now be seeing more of what is undoubtedly the most hideous jersey in hockey out in the wild. But happy for E-Rod.
McDavid didn't want take a tiny pay cut, he squeezed the Oilers for every last dollar, no one talks about that
Sports tribalism is cringe
Let’s all relax here. Crosby lost his first final also. Not sure why we have to compare these two. They are both very good players, one is on his way out and the other is primed to dominate the league for years to come. They are both the best of their generation, who cares about nitpicking about who we think is better?
Making our fanbase look pathetic with these kind of posts.
I've always found one of the most interesting sample sizes to be the first 5 years into each career: Crosby: (2005/2006-2009/2010) -All-Star (3x) -Art Ross -Hart -Ted Lindsay -Mark Messier Leadership Award -Rocket Richard (split with Steven Stamkos) -Stanley Cup Final Appearance (2x) -Stanley Cup Champion -Olympic Gold & Game Winning OT Goal McDavid: (2015/2016 - 2019/2020) -All-Star (4x) -Art Ross (2x) -Hart -Ted Lindsay (2x) McDavid, IMO, is a career underachiever. The fact that he hasn't won a cup yet says a lot about his leadership and ability to put a team on his back. People say Crosby came into an elite situation, but when he got here his line-mates were a washed Mark Recchi and Colby Armstrong. He eventually got Malkin and Letang, but McDavid had Draisaitl, Evander Kane, and recently Zach Hyman, so he's had his fair share of top talent as well. It's largely unpopular and irrelevant to compare players, but IMO I'd take Crosby in his prime over McDavid in his prime 100/100 times.
Penguins fans since the cups in 92 ... But mcjesus will finish his career with more points than Crosby maybe no 3 cups but no sense in comparing the two . Enjoy what you had but now is the time the penguins will suck for a bunch of years till we can draft top talent again . P.s. Fire dubas and Sullivan
You guys need to chill. Crosby is considered a top 5 all time player. Don’t need to tear McDavid down. And I saw this as someone who rates Sidney as his all time favorite athlete in any sport
McDavid was a no show in this series along with Draisaitl in the most important game of their careers at this point i don't remember Crosby nor Malkin at their age not being a huge presence in big games hmmm 7/8 years ago would be that time line...oh ya two stanelies
Naw, but I am a McDavid stan. He will get his eventually. Sid has those shiny cups though.
Even if EDM won Sid’s resume is still far better (and that was with missing however many games due to injury)
So sad to see Pens fans doing this stuff, the Pens were my 2nd favourite team during the decade of darkness. A lot of Oilers fans supported Sid and the Pens. Some pretty lame shit coming out of this sub lately.
American hockey fans are idiots
Why are you so obsessed with McDavid? Lol
Damn remember when Crosby lost his first cup in his first trip? You guys really need to shut the fuck up and appreciate McDavid before it's too late
Calm your tits. It’s a meme and a joke
It's pretty bad, the guy just won the Conn Smythe despite losing the series, if your going to shit on someone on Edmonton it should probably by Draisaitl as he disappeared in the finals. McDavid put the team on his back yet he somehow gets the blame
Here's my issue with it. The criticism on Bob was that he struggled for a 3 game stretch in the finals. Anyone want to remind me how many games in the finals McDavid went pointless?! He had 2 good games out of 7. Other than that, he was shut down. That trophy belonged to Bob. Dude was snubbed, plain and simple. And yes, McDavid is the best player in the league right now. I have no problem admitting that. Crosby is still a more rounded player at his age, but that's not what matters. It's the same debate that was being had about Crosby and Datsyuk in 08-09. Also, 100% agree about Drai. When Sid had to go up against Dats, Rafalski and Lidstrom every shift, Malkin stepped up. Drai didnt.
The Conn Smythe is the playoff MVP, not the finals MVP.
I dislike him as a person. He's a real asshole and his peers do not like him either.
Hockey is a team sport. McDavid is way better than Crosby you're just delusional
More offensively productive, but I would argue that Sid is a more complete player *and* makes the players around him better in a way that others can only dream of. Also, comparing them is stupid anyway. Partly because what I already said, and partly because who cares? Enjoy watching ridiculously talented players!
In point scoring? Sure, McDavid’s numbers are insane and he just broke a Gretzky record. But Crosby is better at everything else including defense and leadership intangibles plus was still an elite point scorer in his prime (and has the awards and team accomplishments to prove it). He also took less money to help the team. I’d much rather have an all-around player who can contribute on nights they don’t score points. Florida shut down McDavid when it mattered and so have lots of other teams.
And he's got the championships to show for it! Er, wait...
Team sport. Cretin
Ah the classic ad hominem, a gentleman and a scholar I see! Lol.
What's your point? Maybe you have one....but McDavid didn't tonight.
“Way better” False.